June 20, 2025 • 55 mins
What does it take to remain grounded in your values while becoming an impactful leader? Dr. Alfred Degrafinreid, President and CEO of Leadership Tennessee, shares the profound lessons that shaped his leadership journey—beginning with sweating on Mississippi Delta rooftops alongside his grandfather.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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This is Talkin' Tennessee, andnow your host, yvonca.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
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Speaker 3 (00:48):
Welcome back to Talkin' Tennessee.
It's part two of the interviewwith Dr Alfred DeGraffenreid.
Welcome back to Talkin'Tennessee.
How do you stay grounded withyour values while advancing your
professional across a diverseindustry?
Speaker 4 (01:10):
Well, you know it's so interesting.
You ask that question because Ithink about my upbringing a lot
and you know I didn't miss anymeals, but it was a struggle
quite a bit, but one of the bestexperiences.
I didn't think it was a greatexperience at the time my
grandfather owned a roofingcompany, so I would go on roof
(01:33):
houses with him on the weekendsand over the summer and you got
to wake up at like four o'clockin the morning.
You know he'd be all over theMississippi Delta and I started
out picking up the debris afterthey take the pitchforks and
take the shingles off, and myjob early as a small kid was to
(01:55):
go and pick up all the debrisand throw it on the back.
Then I eventually made it to,you know, carrying shingles up
the ladder and driving nails.
Um.
So one thing that I loved aboutthat experience.
I'll tell you what I lovedabout it and I'll tell you what
I didn't like about it.
Okay, I love the fact that hewould pay me a hundred dollars
(02:17):
every single time so so ifyou're like seven, eight years
old, picking up shingles, andyou go out for a few hours,
here's a hundred dollars andhe's going to buy you breakfast,
and he's going to buy you lunchand he's going to give you a
hundred dollars.
So he did that.
What I didn't like is I gethome and he run, my sister would
(02:37):
be around and he'd say comeover here, little baby girl,
here's a hundred dollars for youtoo.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
And I've never appreciated it, even if my
sister's listening right now,because you didn't understand it
.
I'm like you know what You'relike.
I had to pick up shingles.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Yes, yeah and you're getting the same $100.
But now that I'm older, I gotto spend time with them and I
got to learn that he said son, Idon't want you to be a roofer.
He said, son, I don't want youto be a roofer, I want you to
know how to do it in case youcan't find a job and you need
something.
He said, but this is hard work.
We talked about how hot it wasin Memphis by 11 o'clock.
(03:15):
It's already 110 degrees on theroof.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
It's hot outside yes.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
And if you've got to put tar up there, you're trying
to fill a hole or something tofix a roof, it's that's hard
work and I got to experiencehard work at an early age like
that and I knew I'd never wantto be a roofer right uh, but I
like to see the amount of moneyhe would get paid.
He would carry so much hetaught me work, ethic, man, he
and you know.
And one thing I'm most proud ofmy grandfather, for he was very
(03:46):
colorful.
I won't give you many, detailsabout his background, but I saw
him transition from having afull black staff to Latinx
community and one thing he toldme was he said, son, I'm going
to pay them the same price, therate that I pay my other
(04:08):
employees.
He said I can't understand whatthey're saying.
He always thought they wouldtalk about it.
I'm like, granddaddy, they'renot talking about you.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
My mother used to say the same thing.
He said they're talking aboutme.
They're talking about me.
Why are they talking about me?
Speaker 4 (04:20):
I said granddaddy, they're not talking about you
but he said it's important forme to pay them the same fair
rate because I would wantsomebody to pay me the same fair
rate.
I want my grandson to get afair rate, you know.
So like I got to see that earlyand I really like it was just
good bonding.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Like I think, another thing, your grandfather between
you and your sister, notnothing against her, but I'm
just telling you, me and mybrother my brother would get
away with with murder.
Okay, my mother now that's afigure of speech, y'all, uh, but
let me just go and clarify thatpart.
(05:02):
Okay, he would get away with somuch stuff, but my mother was
so hard on me and it wouldbother me at times I wouldn't
like how's he getting away withall this?
But you're making me do all ofthis, and it took me to get
older to see.
My mother saw what was in meand so she challenged that part
(05:30):
of me.
And I think your grandfathersaw what was in you and it was
like, if I can teach him workethic, if I can teach him a plan
B for whatever size you know, Idon't want him to be a roofer,
but you know, here's a tradethat you could do if nothing
else works out.
I think he saw something in youthat you didn't see in yourself
at the time.
(05:50):
And, thinking back to that,think about it.
You're now showing other peoplework ethic.
You're showing other people howto be a leader.
You're showing other people howto have a voice and have an
opinion and believe in somethingand stand on it.
You know we had a conversationoff camera.
(06:14):
I was just trying to get toknow Alfred and what stuck out
to me is you want people to beconsidered.
You want people to beconsidered and you don't care
what race it is, you wanteverybody to be considered,
absolutely.
You know, and that's what Itook from our off the camera
(06:36):
conversation and being inleadership, tennessee and being
over that, I know that you haveall walks of life in your class.
What could you say that yourbiggest thing that you want them
to take away after that 10months, if they could pick one
thing that you taught not yourteam teaching them what's the
(07:00):
one thing that you'd want thatclass to get from you?
And that may be a hard question.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Well, I don't think it's necessarily a hard question
, because it's a lot of examplesthat I could share.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
But I want people to walk away from their program
year understanding that thesystem is perfectly designed to
produce what it produces.
So there aren't easy solutionsto anything Like.
I don't think that we'll eversolve poverty.
I don't think we'll ever getrid of homelessness.
(07:37):
And when I chime in and I'm nota negative person, but I think
that the way the system iscreated, there will always be
people who don't have a lot andit's going to always be people
who have a lot.
So how do we?
I feel like we're going to bejudged 50 years from now by how
(07:59):
we treat the people who arehomeless, how we treat people
who are mentally ill, how wetreat people who are
incarcerated.
I feel like they're going tosay how come someone didn't step
up and say that this is wrong?
But the time is going to tellwith that, because you just you
never know.
And I was thinking of one.
I call them Floydisms becausemy grandfather's name is Floyd.
(08:19):
But he would always say if youdo good, good will follow you,
and that's probably the bestadvice that I've ever received,
because he never missed anopportunity to say that.
And when people go through thisprogram, I want them to see all
the good that's happening, butalso understand that bad.
(08:41):
And I'm not saying people arebad, I'm saying there are
certain things that areoccurring, that are bad things
that we can improve and make ourstate a better place.
I'm a Rotarian, I'm a proudRotarian, I said today at
Closing Retreat.
I said look what Rotary standsfor.
(09:01):
Service Above Self is exactlywhat I'm looking for in people
to go through our program.
Like everybody who goes throughLeadership Tennessee should
want to improve our state.
If you don't want to improveour state, then I don't want you
to be a part of our membership,because Don't take up a seat.
Don't take up a seat I tellpeople this about you.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Know you've probably heard multiple people say I want
a seat, don't take up.
I tell people this about youknow you've probably heard
multiple people say I want aseat at the table, I want a seat
at the table.
I heard one guy say I want toown the table and I'm like so,
owning the table you?
That means that it's only youropinion.
Okay, seat at the table.
If you're not, if you're, ifyou take up a seat at a table
(09:47):
but you are not giving anythingin that seat, you're a taker.
You've got to be able.
If you get a seat at the table,it is our duty to work together
with everybody at that table totry your best for the greater
good.
Now, I'm not saying that's easy.
It's not easy becausepersonalities are there, people
(10:11):
come from different walks oflife and people get stuck in the
way they believe things to be.
I can give leadership Knoxvillethis.
I went through that program andthere was even things that I
felt like I knew it to be thisway.
But being in that class andhearing other people's
(10:34):
perspective on the same subject,it opened my eyes to things,
alfred.
It changed my thought on thingsthat's in my community, and it
even showed me about a lot ofthings in Knoxville I didn't
even know existed and I livehere, you know.
So that was a good thing.
My takeaway was I learned moreabout Knoxville and surrounding
(10:58):
counties.
I learned that I may believesomething to be this way, but
listen to other people'sperspective on something.
It might teach you somethingyou know, and it doesn't mean
that you're wrong.
It may just you wasn't exposedto know it to be any different,
(11:20):
you know.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
So I think that Exposure is key.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
It is and you have to want to be exposed because some
people it's like I'm good whereI'm at.
How can you be good?
Because if you still on Earth,you got work to do you.
If you're still on Earth, youknow God is expecting you to do
some things and so you have todo for your community and you're
going all across the state.
So what can you say?
(11:43):
How do you approach?
Bringing together leaders fromacross rural and urban Tennessee
to create solutions is myquestion.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
Well, you bring them to the table and you can't
assume that they know everything.
You know and that's one thingthat I've had to deal with in my
career, like I've worked with alot of elected officials, like
I've told you, I've worked withsome very wealthy people before,
and just because you're anelected official doesn't mean
you're the smartest person inthe room.
Just because you have a billiondollars doesn't mean you're the
(12:14):
smartest person in the room.
That's why you have thosesupport systems around you.
Like I never want to be in agroup of people where I'm the
smartest person.
I don't either.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Because if I'm the smartest person?
Speaker 4 (12:24):
I don't either, because if I'm the smartest
person, then that means I'm notlearning anything.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Nothing.
Speaker 4 (12:29):
And so, to answer your question, we may have a
person who works in agriculture.
I loved a session that we hadbefore recently, I guess around
this time last year.
There was a guy who came in andwas talking about AI, but he
was talking about AI in terms ofagribusiness and how they're
using technology to plant seedsso they can flourish a lot
(12:52):
better than just throwing itdown there.
And I'm sitting there like man,this is crazy.
You're using this technology.
I drive by corn stalks, driveby, you know you might see
soybean, they're growing soybeanor something you know what like
in Memphis you see cotton a lot.
But if you know that they'reusing technology to yield more
(13:13):
like, why not use technology tohelp you have more, so like?
Speaker 3 (13:17):
But I think people get scared, especially like the
AI thing.
I think a lot of people getscared of the unknown Right and,
let's be honest, none of uslike change, because change can
feel uncomfortable at times, butyou can't grow if you don't
have any change that comes.
You're going to be stagnant.
(13:39):
That's where you all want to beprotected.
We all want security and that'swhat sometimes we get scared of
is if this change comes, am Igoing to still feel protected
(13:59):
and feel secure?
Secure, but I think thatsurrounding yourself with people
, like-minded people, that aretrying to do great change for
all, I think that's the key toit.
Do you agree with that?
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Oh, I absolutely agree with it.
I mean, I don't know if you sawme light up a second ago.
I'm like a change managementguru.
I do a lot of teaching onchange management.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
And the reason why I do.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
It is because the jobs I've had, I've had to
respond to change.
And the reason why, if I'vebeen successful, is because I'm
adaptable.
I know how to adapt to change.
When you're stuck in one areaand that's all you know, then
that's going to be a sad thing.
Like one of my other mentors Ihave a few of them he always
(14:46):
says there's a differencebetween 20 years experience and
one year experience times 20.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
So like I want people to catch that Say it one more
time.
There's a difference between 20years of work experience and
one year of experience times 20.
So if you're doing the exactsame thing in year one for 20
times, you hadn't grown.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
That's not 20 years experience.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
So, like when I think about bringing I'm going to
come back to the question when Ithink about bringing people
into the same room and to sharehow they feel about certain
things, because I talked brieflyabout politics earlier, but let
me explain a little better.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Go ahead.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
Education is not political, but the way we do
education is highly political.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Say that one more time.
Education is not political.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
It should not be political because we're talking
about how we educate ourstudents.
It should not be politicalbecause we're talking about how
we educate our students.
It should not be political, buthow we do education is
political because there aredifferent standpoints on how you
know how it's applied.
So we could take any subject,like when you bring politics
into something, it can make itworse.
(16:00):
You know, and I used to be apolitical junkie I still dibble
and dabble and follow what'sgoing on, but I can't get caught
up in.
You know what's going on withthe media, right?
you're only here hearing oneside of the story sometimes you
are and and that's one thingthat kind of that's why I teach.
When I particularly love talkingto high school students, um,
(16:24):
because they going to make adecision, like juniors and
seniors.
They're going to make adecision a couple of years is
going to impact the rest oftheir lives.
So I like to talk to them andsay come on, let's think about
what you really want to do andhow you want to do it.
Do you like?
Because there's this bigargument right now about whether
it's a return on investment togo to college.
And when I'm talking tostudents, they're like well, I
(16:44):
don't know if I'm going to go tocollege.
Well, guess what?
College isn't for everybody.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
It's not.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
And you know I don't want to force college down
somebody's throat, but I say ifI were a betting man, I bet I'm
going to get an education,because I can show you the data
If you have a four year degree,you're going to make this much
more money than someone who hasa high school diploma and every
time you get another degree.
But the misnomer is thisbecause the smartest people like
(17:11):
I think I'm a smart guy, but Ihave way more common sense than
I have book sense and sometimespeople have all the book sense
and like wow, that person issmart, but they can't do simple
tasks.
So I feel like I have a betterapproach to things because I
(17:33):
come at it from where I'm strong.
I'm very good on having acommon sense approach to things
because I feel like I have mypulse, my finger on the pulse,
and I can kind of think well,this is not going to work, I
can't see that working out.
I'm very logical.
I try to think things throughto this logical conclusion.
Some people will just thinkthrough to the halfway point and
(17:54):
give up.
No, I want to think all the waythrough to the end, I think
common sense.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Honestly, I would rather have a common sense than
book sense, because I feel likewith book sense and you can say
I'm wrong, we can agree ordisagree, but I feel like book
sense.
If you study a book long enough, okay, you're going to gain
knowledge from that book.
But common sense, either yougot it or you don't, and common
(18:20):
sense can get you through somethings.
You spoke about people beingsmart.
There's a lot of people thathave every degree there is, but
that's not what got them wherethey needed to be.
I think opportunity.
You can be less than smart, butif you are put in a room with
(18:47):
opportunity, you can do anythingwith the right opportunity.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
Oh, yeah, you know what I'm saying, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
It doesn't mean just oh well,you've got to be this smart
because there are so manymillionaires, billionaires.
Whatever you want to say is Ifyou talk to them.
I think President Barack Obamasaid it best.
He was like don't go in a roomof people that you think is all
(19:16):
smart and think that you're dumb.
He said because a lot of timesyou can go in that room and
you're the smartest one in there, but because you're just using
your common sense on differenttopics and you help the people
that you thought was smart, youhelp them solve some of the
biggest problems.
I agree with that.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
Yeah, I mean, because that's what teams are made of.
Like you got to have people whothink differently from you.
If you around people who thinkidentical to you, you're not
going to grow, you're not goingto reach your full potential.
And you know it's hard toexplain that to kids because
it's, you know, kids in middleschool and you know it's silly.
(20:00):
But you have to figure out away to understand that what you
do now will impact things later.
Like I didn't have social mediawhen I was growing up.
Social media came out when Iwas a college student, you know,
and you had to be in college toget on Facebook.
But I'm so grateful because allof us had fun in college, right
(20:21):
?
Yes, you know so I wouldn'twant my college career, you know
, with people cell phoneswatching.
You know people make mistakesall the time and do things that
they're not proud of.
I'm glad we didn't have thatpiece.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
I'm glad we didn't either, because there have been
a lot of things exposed that wewouldn't want to be exposed, you
know.
So that that's I agree with youthere.
When it comes to young people,what would you tell young people
of today of becoming a leader?
What would you say if you werein a room of young people?
What advice would you give themabout becoming a leader?
(20:55):
Because a lot of times whenyou're young let's be honest,
when you're young, that's notsomething you really want to be,
because you don't know thevalue of being a leader.
Do you agree?
Speaker 4 (21:10):
I would say that I always call myself the
accidental leader, uh-huh.
I always call myself theaccidental leader.
I had good grades in school, somy peers in high school voted
me to be class president.
I'm thinking in my head?
Why do you want me to be classpresident?
Just because?
Speaker 1 (21:31):
I do my homework.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
But what happened was I was placed in a lot of
situations where I had to leadand because of that it helped me
become a better leader.
And, like, I did a program inMemphis called Bridge Builders
which was transformational andit's very similar to Leadership
Tennessee.
But they pick five to sevenstudents from every high school,
starting in 10th grade At leastat that time that's how they
(21:55):
did it.
I think they've expanded butthey pick five people from
public and private high schoolsand then they take them through
a monthly.
They have to go to meetingsevery month.
Then you have a week long.
We did a week at the Universityof Memphis they I had a roommate
who was the first Jewish personI'd ever met.
We got a chance to talk aboutour faith, you know, and our
(22:16):
values, and all that chance totalk about our faith, you know,
and our values and all that.
And then the next year we wentto Ole Miss for a week.
But, like, I knew so manypeople across the city of
Memphis who were my age and thatwas one of those ethereal
experiences where we were onlyput together to break down
stereotypes.
That was the whole premise backthen.
(22:37):
We got to break downstereotypes because at the time,
and maybe even today, there mayhave been some racial tensions
in Memphis.
So that experience opened up myeyes more than anything up
until that point, because I gotto see, wow, those kids in this
private school they're readingthings that's not on our summer
(22:58):
reading list.
And even if it is a summerreading list, I might or might
not read it, you know.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Right.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
But I was smart enough to be able to catch on
and pay attention.
But I would tell the kids toanswer your question read, read,
read.
If you see someone who youthink is a leader, or somebody
who's doing something positive,figure out their story.
Find out their why.
(23:24):
How did they become who theyare?
Something happened in theirlife where they got to the end
of the road and it was a fork inthe road.
They could either go to theleft or the right, and they
chose which direction to go.
In a row, they could either goto the left or the right and
they chose which direction to go.
Why'd they choose that?
That's why I read a lot ofnonfiction and biographies and
(23:48):
memoirs, because I want to knowman, this person's a great
leader.
What happened in their life?
Speaker 3 (23:53):
How did it get them there?
What made them become what theyare today?
Speaker 4 (23:59):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
And, I think, this generation.
I will say this I speak a lotout in the community and I hear
a lot of young people say well,your, your generation is so hard
on us.
Your generation speaks down tous.
You know, what would you say toyoung people?
(24:22):
Of giving them the fight tokeep going?
Because what I speak is we allhad to find our way.
You see us now, you see mygeneration now, but we had to
find our way, just like you,you're going to find your way,
and I always try to speak lifein young people and let them
understand.
Is you know what?
(24:42):
We didn't have it all figuredout.
We did not know.
We had to make some mistakes,just like they're making
mistakes and they're going tofigure it out, just like we had
to figure it out.
But I tried to speak life inthem instead of tearing them
down.
What would you say to people oftoday?
What should they be saying toyoung people?
Speaker 4 (25:05):
First you got to do something like I talked to I'm.
I was spoken to a few Jack andJill groups and I'm friends with
their parents and they theycall me and say man, I don't
know how are you able toresonate with my kids?
They don't really like thatBecause nobody wants to listen
to their parents.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
That's the truth.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
So that's number one.
But if they come in and I'mgoing to keep it raw with them
I'm going to tell them thingsthat and you could say the exact
same thing their parents say,but they're going to take it
from you before they'll take itfrom their parents, but we did
the same thing.
We did the same thing.
We did.
It kind of blows my mind that Ididn't know.
It kills your perception.
I say this to my mom a lot.
I was like you know, and wetalk every day.
(25:47):
My mom and I talk every day.
That's awesome.
And I always say to her, likeall my cousins always loved Aunt
Trish, you know, Aunt Pat, youknow Aunt Pat, you know they
call her different things, AuntPatricia, and I was like, but
man, you were tough on us.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
And.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
I said but now, like you actually are pretty cool,
yeah, and she was like it tookyou this long to realize that?
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Yes, you know, but like Like you had to grow up and
become an adult, right, youknow?
Speaker 4 (26:13):
Because I grew up in an era where you're not friends
with your parents.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
I'm not your friend.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
That's kind of how it's different between saying we
don't want to talk to you.
That's different.
I didn't grow up in a householdwhere they were fighting for my
.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
No, our roles were established.
Very much so.
You're the child, they're theparent.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
You do as I say, not as you please.
Exactly that's what I heard,and I raise my kids that way.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
I mean I raise my kids.
I do believe a kid does have anopinion.
In a respectful way they cansay you know what their opinion
of something is.
But I do think you, a lot ofpeople, need to establish the
role they are and then do Ithink you can be friends with
your kids.
I think when they become anadult and they become
(27:04):
responsible, then there's whereyou can like with me and Adrian.
Me and Adrian is a real estateteam, okay, and Adrian, when she
first came to work for me, shedoesn't work for me now.
We're partners now.
But when she first came on theteam she worked for me and I
said to Adrienne we have to gofrom mother and daughter to now
(27:26):
I'm your employer and you got totake, you know, be able to
allow me to delegate to you, youknow.
But at the same time I had torealize is, you know, once we
cut off and all that kind ofstuff, we can have a friendship
as long as we both respect it.
Now, three years in, becauseAdrian was my assistant at the
(27:48):
time Three years in, adrian saidI want to be a partner.
What does that look like, mom?
I don't want to be yourassistant anymore.
And at first I'm like what doyou mean?
You don't want to be myassistant, cause it felt like
you were happy though.
Yes, I was happy, but it feltlike you know what do you mean?
But then that shift, it tookGod to show me she's outgrown
(28:11):
that position.
You should be happy, you should, you know, and, and she can
share the responsibility, and soI think that a lot of times
people don't get that.
Is that okay?
There's a time and a place foreverything.
And.
I think young people need tounderstand that, because some
out here say some of thecraziest things to their parents
(28:32):
and I'm like what?
Because you know we wouldn'thave got away with that.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
No, there's no way I didn't have that.
Nor would I even fix my lips tosay it was the respect it was
kind of like my dad would alwayssay.
He'd say, boy, when you finallycome to, you're going to be
looking at me from the ground.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
So that's kind of how he would talk, and you know
that I brought you in this world.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
I'll take you out.
Yes, they world.
Yes, they really said that aminute Okay, but but let me, let
me answer this question becauseI want to make sure that,
because this is so important,the kids, like I try to relate
with with kids my ministry areblack males.
I want to make sure that theysee like I love what the hundred
(29:15):
black men in middle Tennesseeis is doing.
I'm a member of the organizationand we have 100 kings and we
take them through, starting inthe fifth grade through 12th
grade and we have somecollegiate scholars as well, but
I love how they get to see allof these incredible leaders who
(29:35):
are at the top of their gameevery single month and get to
spend time with them, andleaders that look like them yes,
and that's important, I think,to my viewers I would say this,
and I say this all the time it'sno takeaway from you.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
When a black person says I want to be the example,
Like he just said, basicallyit's a call on his life.
He wants to mentor black males.
That doesn't mean that hedoesn't care for the opposite
rates of males.
It's just saying his callingand his area expertise.
(30:13):
He's chosen to go down thisroad.
But it doesn't take from anyoneelse, because I think I can
resonate with you.
You get what I'm saying.
Yeah, and our sons anddaughters.
You know I don't know if youknow this I have a black child
and I adopted a white child.
It was an employee of mine'ssister and I adopted my son and
(30:40):
it's wonderful and I show myblack child you know there is a
lot of good in our race.
I show my white child there's alot of good in his race, but
there's bad in both.
But I will say is that moreblack men need to see, more men
like you?
They need to see you can makeit.
(31:02):
You know, I've had thisconversation with my son.
I said there will never be aday that you walk out of this
house, that you have to worryabout not coming back in.
I said but your sister is adifferent situation and I think
when the world realizes it'sdifferent.
(31:24):
As a black man, you know, myhusband is a real estate
appraiser.
He's had guns pulled on him.
All kinds of different thingshas happened to David throughout
his career as a black man, youknow.
So I look up to you saying mycalling is is to show some black
men they can make it.
(31:45):
So my question is how?
How do you reach them?
Speaker 4 (31:54):
Well, I think like the hundred black men is one of
those good things that you can.
They're already there and Imentioned those students that I
mentor at the school.
Kind of the reason why I loveto do that is because you know a
lot of the kids, and I'm notsaying it's the whole thing, but
a lot of kids who go throughthe 100 Kings program.
(32:14):
they come from two-parenthouseholds.
They're parents.
Some of them have terminaldegrees.
A lot of those students aregoing to be just fine when I go
to this zip code it's not thesame.
I think that we can do all.
It's like a both-and.
It's kind of like havingmultiple kids you love your kids
(32:35):
the same, but you gotta lovethem differently, and it's okay.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
it's okay, I'm so glad you just said that you can
love your kids differently, andthat doesn't mean you love one
more than the other.
It's just the loves aredifferent right and it's okay
and you know what.
Speaker 4 (32:52):
You know what you need and, like I know, I was
treated differently than mysiblings in a lot of ways,
simply because I just I could dothe work, but I didn't.
I didn't want to really have tostudy, I could just go in and,
naturally, do pretty well ontests.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
That's my son.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
And when I was, I was so like you can't come home
with a B when I know you'recapable of making A's Like so we
would go through and look at.
From the time I can remember,look at report cards.
My dad said hey, you proved tome that you can make an A in
this class.
You can't come in with a C.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Yeah, I was raised the same way, so like those are.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
those are things that we have to do.
And see, I like to talk tostudents about things that they
normally wouldn't talk about.
So, like it's not uncommon foryou to go in somewhere and this
little kid asks you how muchmoney you make.
Yeah, you know, and I tell themhourly rate.
They don't know how tocalculate it.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
You know, because I know how to calculate it because
I'm in the HR department.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
I know how to like multiply the number times the
hourly rate and they give youyour annual pay.
But like I really think thatit's so important for kids to
just see positivity, because youjust never know.
They have to I always go inwith a positive mindset when I
get there because, you know,even if I'm having a bad day, no
(34:17):
one would ever know I'm havinga bad day because I don't carry
things into other situations.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
And I try not to have bad days and you got to make
sure your mood is not youprojecting negative, being
pessimistic.
I truly believe my parents toldme that if you go in things
positive, most likely it's goingto come out positive.
And just because you may behaving a bad day, because we all
have, okay, but why projectthat on someone else?
(34:48):
Because that could be the veryday that you're projecting that.
It could really truly make somedamage of what you, how, you
projected on someone else, andso we gotta have the emotional
intelligence to know thedifference, and a lot of people
lack that.
Speaker 4 (35:05):
We talked about common sense and book sense, but
then the other one is theemotional intelligence to know
the difference.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
Like you don't have to say everything that comes to
your mind, you know youunderstand why he's the CEO of
leadership, because he istelling you, as a leader, that
you don't have to literally telleverything you feel and bring
that on someone and you've gotto pick your battles.
Speaker 4 (35:31):
Or tell people what you don't know, like.
That's another part that youcan get from just understanding.
Like I grew up in 3127 inFraser in Memphis, in a rough
area, but like I understoodpolitics, like I learned
politics a long time ago in highschool.
And how I learned politics inhigh school was because I met
(35:54):
the previous police chief, yearsat least when I was in school.
I can't remember his name, butI met him in Memphis.
He asked me what high school Iwent to and I told him he said
we developed our gang task forceoff of your high school.
He said y'all had every gangand you had these neighborhood
cliques inside the school.
You never knew what was goingto happen.
I walked through male detectivesevery single day, right, every
(36:16):
single day, male detectives atschool.
But because I would help peoplewith their homework, no matter
who they were affiliated withand and I was I would go out of
my way to try to teach concepts.
A lot of guys were like hey,he's safe, don't, don't bother
him.
You know, and safe, don'tbother him.
And I even went back yearslater and one of my guys he's a
(36:37):
barber and he said man, he saidwe always knew you were going to
be somebody.
We always knew you weredifferent than us.
I said I grew up in the samearea, but we knew that you had a
higher trajectory than we had.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
You know why?
Because you speak with passion.
I ain't even known you thislong, but you speak with passion
and and what you believe andyou really care about Tennessee.
Speaker 4 (37:07):
And I also know this too.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
I knew that my parents, they didn't play well,
you had a mother that was ateacher, so I know she didn't
play.
And if somebody said, hey, thatwas a teacher, so I know she
didn't play Right, and ifsomebody said, hey, we're going
to go do this.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
I said, oh no, I'm out Because you knew, I already
knew.
So I mean, but like you know alot of the things, and this is
probably for the next iterationof this whenever we do it.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Yes, but a lot of things happened inside the
household.
It did inside the household.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
It did and if you Spoke on it.
If you have, I guess my pointI'm trying to make is when you
have parents that are payingattention to what you have going
on and you can't talk to them,how you're raised will leave
from outside that house andfollow you everywhere you go.
I agree, like I knew it wascertain things I wasn't going to
(37:53):
do and if I did do it.
I was going to sufferconsequences, and I try not to
do it Because your parents wasan example for you Exactly, but
I try not to do that with ourkids.
We try to make sure that youknow it's okay to express your
feelings, like we couldn't dothat growing up.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
No, like so.
But I want to make sure youremember when I was talking
about the opinion thing and Ihad to.
You know me and David had totalk this over in our marriage.
Is that David was brought uplike me and you that?
Speaker 4 (38:24):
whatever they said, control and command.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Okay, and so I had to get David to understand.
Is you know what?
Yes, we're the parents.
Yes, we make the last call, butit's okay for a kid to have an
opinion if they're speaking in arespectful way.
I don't think it's anythingwrong with a kid saying you know
(38:51):
, hey, mom, can you just thinkabout this?
But when we were growing up youcouldn't do that you know,
whatever they said went and itwas like okay, but how am I
going to express if you neverallow me to express?
So you've got all these youngpeople that are out here.
We want them to express and wewant them to do all these great
things, but if their parentsnever allow them to express, we
(39:12):
as mentors, we as leaders, haveto be the one to teach them that
their opinion matters, theirfeelings matter, and they have
to say and they can't speak justhappiness all the time.
You have to be able to speakabout what you're going through
and I think, in what you do fora living and what you do in your
(39:35):
community, you're given a voice.
You know you're given a voiceto so many people that the
parents never gave.
So I would say to you is hatsoff to you for that.
Keep going at that.
What would you say?
Tennessee needs more thananything.
We're almost about to wrap thisup, so now these are some next
(40:00):
couple questions.
Speaker 4 (40:01):
Yes, well, I'll say one thing that I've noticed just
from having these conversationsacross the state with top
leaders education permeateseverything.
So if you talk about economicdevelopment, education is
attached to it, because if youwant to have economic
development, people have to haveplaces to send their kids to
(40:23):
school.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (40:24):
I mean we talk about the prison system.
If people aren't reading ongrade level, then they're
illiterate, then that's kind ofa direct pipeline to prison.
So like we can talk about anybad thing or any topic,
education always permeates itand if we get that right, I
think, our state is doing abetter job with education than
(40:48):
it was 50 years ago.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
I agree.
Speaker 4 (40:50):
So, but I think that that's something that we can't
take our eye off the ball.
I also kind of think that Imean because you're asking about
some of the challenges, right,right, I would, I would say just
the amount of people who aremoving here, you know, yeah, I
(41:11):
mean, which is a beautiful thing.
You know, I mean, which is abeautiful thing.
I was with, I heard thegovernor speak recently and he
and he made a comment that Ididn't know.
But, this is apropos of the workthat you do.
He said that every hourTennessee is losing 10 acres of
(41:34):
farmland to development, andthat's a threat to what
Tennessee is known for.
We can't just let everybodycome in here, move and we build,
because then we're going tolose one of our most natural
assets.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
Tennessee, for one, is about families.
Tennessee is abouthomeownership Okay, but right
now there's been so manydifferent big developers or big
hedge funds that come in and buyup property and is making it be
(42:11):
more rentals than homeownership.
And Tennessee, this is a statethat we teach home ownership For
a first-time home buyer.
I will tell you, it's kind ofdifficult right now for a
first-time home buyer becauseyou know the price points in our
communities.
You know people are making moremoney in areas, in some areas
(42:38):
more than they've ever made, butit's the cost of living is
still high.
You know a one-bedroom inKnoxville I don't know about
Nashville, where you live, butone bedroom here is the average
of $2,000 a month.
You know that's a lot.
Think about when we started,when we got our apartments.
You know that's a lot.
And tack on it if you havechildren.
(42:59):
You know food is expensive, gasis expensive, just everything.
I think Tennessee as a whole Iwill say this compared to other
states, we're still At a lowerprice than other states, but we
still are expensive as well.
(43:21):
So I think that that's thebiggest thing that we need help
with is the homeless and peoplebeing able to have a roof over
their head.
Do you agree with that?
Speaker 4 (43:38):
Yeah, I think those are certainly some issues that
impacts a lot of people.
I mean, I know the pathway toreaching an American dream often
is tied to being able to haveequity in your home.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (43:52):
And when people if we have a population of too many
people who are renters, they'renot able to ever fully reach
their potential.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
And you're seeing more and more renters and that's
the sad part.
But I just pray that we havemore home ownership in Tennessee
.
Tennessee is a great state andthat's why people are moving
here, but I just I love thefamily part of Tennessee, that
we are the volunteer state.
We love our community and wewant to build up our community.
(44:22):
So my next question is what issome of the most exciting or
impactful statewide initiativescurrently underway through
Leadership Nostle?
Speaker 4 (44:34):
if you can answer that, question Well, so for
Leadership Tennessee we aregoing to.
Actually, we have a new datefor our signature.
One of our signature eventsersis the honoree.
We had to push the date back toAugust, but it's August 28th.
(45:07):
We're honoring her for all she'sdone throughout the state and
what the Ayers Foundation doesto help create more in the rural
communities and educate peoplefrom rural areas.
This is such a greatorganization, but she's also a
great person and a big supporterof Leadership Tennessee.
(45:30):
But she's been honored, dollyParton.
Just to give you a backgroundon it, dolly Parton was the
inaugural recipient of the DollyParton Excellence Leadership
Award in 2018.
That was a five-yearcelebration and then once we
after that, knoxville's two ofKnoxville's finest Governor,
(45:52):
bill and First Lady ChrissyHaslam, received the award in
2021.
And now Mrs Ayers is going toreceive the award this August.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
That's amazing.
Speaker 4 (46:03):
So, Dolly Parton, recipient of the first award.
She gave the award to theHaslam's and this time the
Haslam's will give it to MrsAyers.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
So I'm not sure if she's going to make it in a 10
this time.
Speaker 4 (46:17):
Dolly was at the last one.
I don't know if she's going tobe at this one, but certainly
hope that she will be there.
But it's going to be a greatevent in Franklin, Tennessee.
We're going to be outside ofNashville in.
Franklin at the FranklinFactory and more information.
Speaker 3 (46:31):
August 28th.
Speaker 4 (46:32):
More information will be on our website, and it's not
just for.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
Leadership Tennessee alums.
Speaker 4 (46:37):
either it's for, we'll open it up.
We want to first sell to asmany alums as possible before we
open it up.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (46:44):
There'll be, non-Leadership Tennessee alumni
there as well.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
I would love to come.
I would love to come, so I hopethey open it up for others to
come outside the alumni.
Speaker 4 (46:53):
Certainly, I'll let you know.
Speaker 3 (46:54):
Yes, most definitely.
So what is the next?
What in the future?
You say the next thing that youwant Leadership Tennessee to be
known as.
Speaker 4 (47:09):
Well, the beautiful part of running an organization
like this is LeadershipTennessee.
Although we're new we'refounded in 2013.
Yes although we're new we'refound in 2013 yes, it has a huge
reputation across the nation.
That and that goes um to mypredecessor, who did an
excellent job leading it for thefirst several years before I
(47:31):
got here, and I think our teamhas done a good job of keeping
us on that upper trajectory.
Um, we're we're regarded as isone of the top statewide
community leadership programsand we're also a community with
others.
So I'm on the board for theAssociation for Leadership
Programs, which is the nationalboard.
Leadership Knoxville is a partof it as well, but we get
(47:52):
together with a bunch of othercommunity leadership programs
across the nation and we talkabout what's going on, and
that's really an insightfulconference because you get to
hear from people who leadorganizations similar to
Leadership Knoxville andLeadership Tennessee, but all
across the nation, and you getto learn and you get.
Speaker 3 (48:12):
inspired.
Speaker 4 (48:12):
You get inspired by it and I mean, like some would
say, like I would imagine thatpeople would look at the role
that I have and say you know, Ibet you get tired of hearing the
same thing.
I'm like well, actually wedon't hear the same thing.
I mean, some things you'regoing to get every single time.
Speaker 3 (48:27):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (48:28):
But I mean, I think about, like, when we come here
to Knoxville, big Jim Haslam isjust, oh my God, he is one of
the most remarkable people I'veever met in my life.
Yes, he is one of the mostremarkable people I've ever met
in my life, and when he can comeand talk to our members about
his life and all the things he'sdone and how much he loves
programs like ours, he lovesLeadership, knoxville, that's
(48:50):
his baby, but he really caresabout these programs.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
I heard from Senator.
Speaker 4 (48:56):
Alexander last night said he thinks that these
programs are so important to theoverall fabric of our state and
the region.
It helps us think about issuesand not just think about it.
But if you know if things couldbe solved, we have the right
people in the room from public,private and nonprofit sectors
(49:18):
who can actually move the needlein the direction we want to
move it Like that's the.
That's the most beautiful partabout running an organization
like this or even beingassociated with it.
It's like you get all thesesmart people in the room who
care about the state and say wewant to do some things.
I imagine we'll probably host agubernatorial debate.
We've done that before in thepast.
(49:40):
We partnered with theTennessean and, I guess, usa
Today to do those and we'recertainly going because we're
not about.
You're probably thinking, well,that's political.
No, it's not political.
These are people who arerunning and we want to make sure
our membership and those acrossthe state who we're associated
with have the opportunity tohear from the person who's going
(50:02):
to be the next governor.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (50:03):
And to see it because it's important and that's
really up my alley anyway,because I love the political
side of it.
Speaker 3 (50:09):
I was going to say your political background, but
those are things that I thinkthat we do very well.
Speaker 4 (50:14):
I think to be critical of leadership tendency
and I can't be too critical ofit, but I'll just say I wish we
had a little more ruralrepresentation.
I know we get to go to somerural areas and we're working on
that.
We're going through ourstrategic plan we already had it
and we're trying to fulfillwhat's in there for our metrics.
(50:37):
I really want us to look at thestate seal.
You know what two words onthere?
Do you know?
I don't want to put you on thespot.
The state seal I'll call you inrather than call you out but it
says agriculture and commerce.
Those are the two things thatare on there yes so if we're not
(50:58):
focused on the things that makeus such a great state,
particularly the agriculturepiece and the people in the
rural areas tend to do a littlemore farming than the urban
areas right?
Speaker 1 (51:10):
Right.
Speaker 4 (51:11):
So those are things we can get a little stronger in,
and we're trying our hardest tomake sure that we have a more
diverse population of ourmembership and I'm not saying
diverse in a way that that'sprobably a bad way to say now
diverse in terms of you knowlocation, you know diverse in
(51:33):
industry.
Yes, Because we can't have 30teachers right.
You know going through a programand we're going to talk about
everything that's going on.
It's probably a good thing forteachers to have their own
leadership program or somethingthey can do, but this was
designed to bring differentpeople who would never get
together into a room so they cantalk about issues, because we
(51:55):
make assumptions.
And I'll never forget my firstmeeting with Big Jim Haslam.
He said, alfred, you have oneof the most important jobs in
the state and and I was like Ididn't expect that.
But what he said was today welive in a society where people
retreat to their corners andthey point and say I don't like
ivanka, but I don't know hereither, but I don't like her yes
(52:17):
and I.
It's something about our ownlife, but we're going to bring
you together.
Put you at a table and thenfocus on some issues that
improves our state.
That's beauty, and get to knowpeople.
Speaker 3 (52:31):
Who they are, instead of judging them across the room
when you really don't know them, don't know anything about them
.
I think that's the biggestthing like with leadership and
also me going through theprogram is they put 61 people in
a room and you know, you wouldthink I would have known quite a
(52:54):
bit of the people in my classbefore.
I only knew three people inthat class when I started and it
was a good thing I'll neverforget.
Speaker 4 (53:02):
But you probably sold them all their houses, though.
You just didn't know them.
You know, yeah, there you go,there you go.
Speaker 3 (53:07):
Yes, but I'm like I said to Tammy, I'll never forget
the first day she said to me.
She was like you probably knowthat a lot of these people are
here.
I was like Tammy, no, I don't.
And she goes.
Is that a bad thing?
I was like no, it's a goodthing.
I said because I want to meetnew people and I want to be a
great leader and you've got toget in a room with people that
(53:31):
has done more than you've donein your life and listen, you
know?
And when you're talking aboutJim Haslam, he spoke our very
first class OK, him and his wifeboth were there and both of
them, you know, shared.
And what my takeaway from himwas this man is 95 years old and
(53:54):
he is still wanting to be aleader and wanting to make a
difference, wanting to be aleader and wanting to make a
difference.
How can I ever stop being aleader when someone that has
done as much as this man hasdone he could say I want to
retire and I just want to.
You know, just be me for amoment.
No, not Jim Haslam, because hestood there.
(54:16):
I mean, he spoke there and saidyou know what Keep doing, keep
working, keep trying to makeyour community better, and so I
took away that.
Like I got more to do, I've gotmore to do.
If a 95-year-old person issaying they're still working,
who am I to say not to work?
Speaker 4 (54:40):
So I want to thank you for coming.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (54:41):
And sitting down and have a conversation.
The door is open always to you,you know.
I would love to bring you backon one of our panel discussions
because I think that you have alot to offer and I think people
want to hear.
Speaker 4 (54:54):
you know what is Alfred doing now, so thank you
for coming, thank you so much,and this has been great to be
here and to just really thinkabout some things that we do,
and I just want to express mygratitude for you inviting me
here today, thank you.
Speaker 3 (55:13):
Thank you Most definitely and, like I said, the
door is always open.
Tune in every Friday to Talk inTennessee.
Speaker 1 (55:35):
Bye guys, salsrealestatecom.
See our videos on yavanka'syoutube channel or find us on
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Until next time.
Yavanka signing off.
Check us out to hear the latest on life in the
volunteer state.
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It's a Tennessee thing, alwaysrelatable, always relevant and
always a good time.
This is Talkin' Tennessee, andnow your host, yvonca.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
This episode is brought to you by the Landis
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Give us a call at 865-660-1186or check out our website at
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That's Yvonca Y-V-O-N-N-C-Asalesrealestatecom.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Welcome back to Talkin' Tennessee.
It's part two of the interviewwith Dr Alfred DeGraffenreid.
Welcome back to Talkin'Tennessee.
How do you stay grounded withyour values while advancing your
professional across a diverseindustry?
Speaker 4 (01:10):
Well, you know it's so interesting.
You ask that question because Ithink about my upbringing a lot
and you know I didn't miss anymeals, but it was a struggle
quite a bit, but one of the bestexperiences.
I didn't think it was a greatexperience at the time my
grandfather owned a roofingcompany, so I would go on roof
(01:33):
houses with him on the weekendsand over the summer and you got
to wake up at like four o'clockin the morning.
You know he'd be all over theMississippi Delta and I started
out picking up the debris afterthey take the pitchforks and
take the shingles off, and myjob early as a small kid was to
(01:55):
go and pick up all the debrisand throw it on the back.
Then I eventually made it to,you know, carrying shingles up
the ladder and driving nails.
Um.
So one thing that I loved aboutthat experience.
I'll tell you what I lovedabout it and I'll tell you what
I didn't like about it.
Okay, I love the fact that hewould pay me a hundred dollars
(02:17):
every single time so so ifyou're like seven, eight years
old, picking up shingles, andyou go out for a few hours,
here's a hundred dollars andhe's going to buy you breakfast,
and he's going to buy you lunchand he's going to give you a
hundred dollars.
So he did that.
What I didn't like is I gethome and he run, my sister would
(02:37):
be around and he'd say comeover here, little baby girl,
here's a hundred dollars for youtoo.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
And I've never appreciated it, even if my
sister's listening right now,because you didn't understand it
.
I'm like you know what You'relike.
I had to pick up shingles.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Yes, yeah and you're getting the same $100.
But now that I'm older, I gotto spend time with them and I
got to learn that he said son, Idon't want you to be a roofer.
He said, son, I don't want youto be a roofer, I want you to
know how to do it in case youcan't find a job and you need
something.
He said, but this is hard work.
We talked about how hot it wasin Memphis by 11 o'clock.
(03:15):
It's already 110 degrees on theroof.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
It's hot outside yes.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
And if you've got to put tar up there, you're trying
to fill a hole or something tofix a roof, it's that's hard
work and I got to experiencehard work at an early age like
that and I knew I'd never wantto be a roofer right uh, but I
like to see the amount of moneyhe would get paid.
He would carry so much hetaught me work, ethic, man, he
and you know.
And one thing I'm most proud ofmy grandfather, for he was very
(03:46):
colorful.
I won't give you many, detailsabout his background, but I saw
him transition from having afull black staff to Latinx
community and one thing he toldme was he said, son, I'm going
to pay them the same price, therate that I pay my other
(04:08):
employees.
He said I can't understand whatthey're saying.
He always thought they wouldtalk about it.
I'm like, granddaddy, they'renot talking about you.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
My mother used to say the same thing.
He said they're talking aboutme.
They're talking about me.
Why are they talking about me?
Speaker 4 (04:20):
I said granddaddy, they're not talking about you
but he said it's important forme to pay them the same fair
rate because I would wantsomebody to pay me the same fair
rate.
I want my grandson to get afair rate, you know.
So like I got to see that earlyand I really like it was just
good bonding.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Like I think, another thing, your grandfather between
you and your sister, notnothing against her, but I'm
just telling you, me and mybrother my brother would get
away with with murder.
Okay, my mother now that's afigure of speech, y'all, uh, but
let me just go and clarify thatpart.
(05:02):
Okay, he would get away with somuch stuff, but my mother was
so hard on me and it wouldbother me at times I wouldn't
like how's he getting away withall this?
But you're making me do all ofthis, and it took me to get
older to see.
My mother saw what was in meand so she challenged that part
(05:30):
of me.
And I think your grandfathersaw what was in you and it was
like, if I can teach him workethic, if I can teach him a plan
B for whatever size you know, Idon't want him to be a roofer,
but you know, here's a tradethat you could do if nothing
else works out.
I think he saw something in youthat you didn't see in yourself
at the time.
(05:50):
And, thinking back to that,think about it.
You're now showing other peoplework ethic.
You're showing other people howto be a leader.
You're showing other people howto have a voice and have an
opinion and believe in somethingand stand on it.
You know we had a conversationoff camera.
(06:14):
I was just trying to get toknow Alfred and what stuck out
to me is you want people to beconsidered.
You want people to beconsidered and you don't care
what race it is, you wanteverybody to be considered,
absolutely.
You know, and that's what Itook from our off the camera
(06:36):
conversation and being inleadership, tennessee and being
over that, I know that you haveall walks of life in your class.
What could you say that yourbiggest thing that you want them
to take away after that 10months, if they could pick one
thing that you taught not yourteam teaching them what's the
(07:00):
one thing that you'd want thatclass to get from you?
And that may be a hard question.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Well, I don't think it's necessarily a hard question
, because it's a lot of examplesthat I could share.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
But I want people to walk away from their program
year understanding that thesystem is perfectly designed to
produce what it produces.
So there aren't easy solutionsto anything Like.
I don't think that we'll eversolve poverty.
I don't think we'll ever getrid of homelessness.
(07:37):
And when I chime in and I'm nota negative person, but I think
that the way the system iscreated, there will always be
people who don't have a lot andit's going to always be people
who have a lot.
So how do we?
I feel like we're going to bejudged 50 years from now by how
(07:59):
we treat the people who arehomeless, how we treat people
who are mentally ill, how wetreat people who are
incarcerated.
I feel like they're going tosay how come someone didn't step
up and say that this is wrong?
But the time is going to tellwith that, because you just you
never know.
And I was thinking of one.
I call them Floydisms becausemy grandfather's name is Floyd.
(08:19):
But he would always say if youdo good, good will follow you,
and that's probably the bestadvice that I've ever received,
because he never missed anopportunity to say that.
And when people go through thisprogram, I want them to see all
the good that's happening, butalso understand that bad.
(08:41):
And I'm not saying people arebad, I'm saying there are
certain things that areoccurring, that are bad things
that we can improve and make ourstate a better place.
I'm a Rotarian, I'm a proudRotarian, I said today at
Closing Retreat.
I said look what Rotary standsfor.
(09:01):
Service Above Self is exactlywhat I'm looking for in people
to go through our program.
Like everybody who goes throughLeadership Tennessee should
want to improve our state.
If you don't want to improveour state, then I don't want you
to be a part of our membership,because Don't take up a seat.
Don't take up a seat I tellpeople this about you.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Know you've probably heard multiple people say I want
a seat, don't take up.
I tell people this about youknow you've probably heard
multiple people say I want aseat at the table, I want a seat
at the table.
I heard one guy say I want toown the table and I'm like so,
owning the table you?
That means that it's only youropinion.
Okay, seat at the table.
If you're not, if you're, ifyou take up a seat at a table
(09:47):
but you are not giving anythingin that seat, you're a taker.
You've got to be able.
If you get a seat at the table,it is our duty to work together
with everybody at that table totry your best for the greater
good.
Now, I'm not saying that's easy.
It's not easy becausepersonalities are there, people
(10:11):
come from different walks oflife and people get stuck in the
way they believe things to be.
I can give leadership Knoxvillethis.
I went through that program andthere was even things that I
felt like I knew it to be thisway.
But being in that class andhearing other people's
(10:34):
perspective on the same subject,it opened my eyes to things,
alfred.
It changed my thought on thingsthat's in my community, and it
even showed me about a lot ofthings in Knoxville I didn't
even know existed and I livehere, you know.
So that was a good thing.
My takeaway was I learned moreabout Knoxville and surrounding
(10:58):
counties.
I learned that I may believesomething to be this way, but
listen to other people'sperspective on something.
It might teach you somethingyou know, and it doesn't mean
that you're wrong.
It may just you wasn't exposedto know it to be any different,
(11:20):
you know.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
So I think that Exposure is key.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
It is and you have to want to be exposed because some
people it's like I'm good whereI'm at.
How can you be good?
Because if you still on Earth,you got work to do you.
If you're still on Earth, youknow God is expecting you to do
some things and so you have todo for your community and you're
going all across the state.
So what can you say?
(11:43):
How do you approach?
Bringing together leaders fromacross rural and urban Tennessee
to create solutions is myquestion.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
Well, you bring them to the table and you can't
assume that they know everything.
You know and that's one thingthat I've had to deal with in my
career, like I've worked with alot of elected officials, like
I've told you, I've worked withsome very wealthy people before,
and just because you're anelected official doesn't mean
you're the smartest person inthe room.
Just because you have a billiondollars doesn't mean you're the
(12:14):
smartest person in the room.
That's why you have thosesupport systems around you.
Like I never want to be in agroup of people where I'm the
smartest person.
I don't either.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Because if I'm the smartest person?
Speaker 4 (12:24):
I don't either, because if I'm the smartest
person, then that means I'm notlearning anything.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Nothing.
Speaker 4 (12:29):
And so, to answer your question, we may have a
person who works in agriculture.
I loved a session that we hadbefore recently, I guess around
this time last year.
There was a guy who came in andwas talking about AI, but he
was talking about AI in terms ofagribusiness and how they're
using technology to plant seedsso they can flourish a lot
(12:52):
better than just throwing itdown there.
And I'm sitting there like man,this is crazy.
You're using this technology.
I drive by corn stalks, driveby, you know you might see
soybean, they're growing soybeanor something you know what like
in Memphis you see cotton a lot.
But if you know that they'reusing technology to yield more
(13:13):
like, why not use technology tohelp you have more, so like?
Speaker 3 (13:17):
But I think people get scared, especially like the
AI thing.
I think a lot of people getscared of the unknown Right and,
let's be honest, none of uslike change, because change can
feel uncomfortable at times, butyou can't grow if you don't
have any change that comes.
You're going to be stagnant.
(13:39):
That's where you all want to beprotected.
We all want security and that'swhat sometimes we get scared of
is if this change comes, am Igoing to still feel protected
(13:59):
and feel secure?
Secure, but I think thatsurrounding yourself with people
, like-minded people, that aretrying to do great change for
all, I think that's the key toit.
Do you agree with that?
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Oh, I absolutely agree with it.
I mean, I don't know if you sawme light up a second ago.
I'm like a change managementguru.
I do a lot of teaching onchange management.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
And the reason why I do.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
It is because the jobs I've had, I've had to
respond to change.
And the reason why, if I'vebeen successful, is because I'm
adaptable.
I know how to adapt to change.
When you're stuck in one areaand that's all you know, then
that's going to be a sad thing.
Like one of my other mentors Ihave a few of them he always
(14:46):
says there's a differencebetween 20 years experience and
one year experience times 20.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
So like I want people to catch that Say it one more
time.
There's a difference between 20years of work experience and
one year of experience times 20.
So if you're doing the exactsame thing in year one for 20
times, you hadn't grown.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
That's not 20 years experience.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
So, like when I think about bringing I'm going to
come back to the question when Ithink about bringing people
into the same room and to sharehow they feel about certain
things, because I talked brieflyabout politics earlier, but let
me explain a little better.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Go ahead.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
Education is not political, but the way we do
education is highly political.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Say that one more time.
Education is not political.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
It should not be political because we're talking
about how we educate ourstudents.
It should not be politicalbecause we're talking about how
we educate our students.
It should not be political, buthow we do education is
political because there aredifferent standpoints on how you
know how it's applied.
So we could take any subject,like when you bring politics
into something, it can make itworse.
(16:00):
You know, and I used to be apolitical junkie I still dibble
and dabble and follow what'sgoing on, but I can't get caught
up in.
You know what's going on withthe media, right?
you're only here hearing oneside of the story sometimes you
are and and that's one thingthat kind of that's why I teach.
When I particularly love talkingto high school students, um,
(16:24):
because they going to make adecision, like juniors and
seniors.
They're going to make adecision a couple of years is
going to impact the rest oftheir lives.
So I like to talk to them andsay come on, let's think about
what you really want to do andhow you want to do it.
Do you like?
Because there's this bigargument right now about whether
it's a return on investment togo to college.
And when I'm talking tostudents, they're like well, I
(16:44):
don't know if I'm going to go tocollege.
Well, guess what?
College isn't for everybody.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
It's not.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
And you know I don't want to force college down
somebody's throat, but I say ifI were a betting man, I bet I'm
going to get an education,because I can show you the data
If you have a four year degree,you're going to make this much
more money than someone who hasa high school diploma and every
time you get another degree.
But the misnomer is thisbecause the smartest people like
(17:11):
I think I'm a smart guy, but Ihave way more common sense than
I have book sense and sometimespeople have all the book sense
and like wow, that person issmart, but they can't do simple
tasks.
So I feel like I have a betterapproach to things because I
(17:33):
come at it from where I'm strong.
I'm very good on having acommon sense approach to things
because I feel like I have mypulse, my finger on the pulse,
and I can kind of think well,this is not going to work, I
can't see that working out.
I'm very logical.
I try to think things throughto this logical conclusion.
Some people will just thinkthrough to the halfway point and
(17:54):
give up.
No, I want to think all the waythrough to the end, I think
common sense.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Honestly, I would rather have a common sense than
book sense, because I feel likewith book sense and you can say
I'm wrong, we can agree ordisagree, but I feel like book
sense.
If you study a book long enough, okay, you're going to gain
knowledge from that book.
But common sense, either yougot it or you don't, and common
(18:20):
sense can get you through somethings.
You spoke about people beingsmart.
There's a lot of people thathave every degree there is, but
that's not what got them wherethey needed to be.
I think opportunity.
You can be less than smart, butif you are put in a room with
(18:47):
opportunity, you can do anythingwith the right opportunity.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
Oh, yeah, you know what I'm saying, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
It doesn't mean just oh well,you've got to be this smart
because there are so manymillionaires, billionaires.
Whatever you want to say is Ifyou talk to them.
I think President Barack Obamasaid it best.
He was like don't go in a roomof people that you think is all
(19:16):
smart and think that you're dumb.
He said because a lot of timesyou can go in that room and
you're the smartest one in there, but because you're just using
your common sense on differenttopics and you help the people
that you thought was smart, youhelp them solve some of the
biggest problems.
I agree with that.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
Yeah, I mean, because that's what teams are made of.
Like you got to have people whothink differently from you.
If you around people who thinkidentical to you, you're not
going to grow, you're not goingto reach your full potential.
And you know it's hard toexplain that to kids because
it's, you know, kids in middleschool and you know it's silly.
(20:00):
But you have to figure out away to understand that what you
do now will impact things later.
Like I didn't have social mediawhen I was growing up.
Social media came out when Iwas a college student, you know,
and you had to be in college toget on Facebook.
But I'm so grateful because allof us had fun in college, right
(20:21):
?
Yes, you know so I wouldn'twant my college career, you know
, with people cell phoneswatching.
You know people make mistakesall the time and do things that
they're not proud of.
I'm glad we didn't have thatpiece.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
I'm glad we didn't either, because there have been
a lot of things exposed that wewouldn't want to be exposed, you
know.
So that that's I agree with youthere.
When it comes to young people,what would you tell young people
of today of becoming a leader?
What would you say if you werein a room of young people?
What advice would you give themabout becoming a leader?
(20:55):
Because a lot of times whenyou're young let's be honest,
when you're young, that's notsomething you really want to be,
because you don't know thevalue of being a leader.
Do you agree?
Speaker 4 (21:10):
I would say that I always call myself the
accidental leader, uh-huh.
I always call myself theaccidental leader.
I had good grades in school, somy peers in high school voted
me to be class president.
I'm thinking in my head?
Why do you want me to be classpresident?
Just because?
Speaker 1 (21:31):
I do my homework.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
But what happened was I was placed in a lot of
situations where I had to leadand because of that it helped me
become a better leader.
And, like, I did a program inMemphis called Bridge Builders
which was transformational andit's very similar to Leadership
Tennessee.
But they pick five to sevenstudents from every high school,
starting in 10th grade At leastat that time that's how they
(21:55):
did it.
I think they've expanded butthey pick five people from
public and private high schoolsand then they take them through
a monthly.
They have to go to meetingsevery month.
Then you have a week long.
We did a week at the Universityof Memphis they I had a roommate
who was the first Jewish personI'd ever met.
We got a chance to talk aboutour faith, you know, and our
(22:16):
values, and all that chance totalk about our faith, you know,
and our values and all that.
And then the next year we wentto Ole Miss for a week.
But, like, I knew so manypeople across the city of
Memphis who were my age and thatwas one of those ethereal
experiences where we were onlyput together to break down
stereotypes.
That was the whole premise backthen.
(22:37):
We got to break downstereotypes because at the time,
and maybe even today, there mayhave been some racial tensions
in Memphis.
So that experience opened up myeyes more than anything up
until that point, because I gotto see, wow, those kids in this
private school they're readingthings that's not on our summer
(22:58):
reading list.
And even if it is a summerreading list, I might or might
not read it, you know.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Right.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
But I was smart enough to be able to catch on
and pay attention.
But I would tell the kids toanswer your question read, read,
read.
If you see someone who youthink is a leader, or somebody
who's doing something positive,figure out their story.
Find out their why.
(23:24):
How did they become who theyare?
Something happened in theirlife where they got to the end
of the road and it was a fork inthe road.
They could either go to theleft or the right, and they
chose which direction to go.
In a row, they could either goto the left or the right and
they chose which direction to go.
Why'd they choose that?
That's why I read a lot ofnonfiction and biographies and
(23:48):
memoirs, because I want to knowman, this person's a great
leader.
What happened in their life?
Speaker 3 (23:53):
How did it get them there?
What made them become what theyare today?
Speaker 4 (23:59):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
And, I think, this generation.
I will say this I speak a lotout in the community and I hear
a lot of young people say well,your, your generation is so hard
on us.
Your generation speaks down tous.
You know, what would you say toyoung people?
(24:22):
Of giving them the fight tokeep going?
Because what I speak is we allhad to find our way.
You see us now, you see mygeneration now, but we had to
find our way, just like you,you're going to find your way,
and I always try to speak lifein young people and let them
understand.
Is you know what?
(24:42):
We didn't have it all figuredout.
We did not know.
We had to make some mistakes,just like they're making
mistakes and they're going tofigure it out, just like we had
to figure it out.
But I tried to speak life inthem instead of tearing them
down.
What would you say to people oftoday?
What should they be saying toyoung people?
Speaker 4 (25:05):
First you got to do something like I talked to I'm.
I was spoken to a few Jack andJill groups and I'm friends with
their parents and they theycall me and say man, I don't
know how are you able toresonate with my kids?
They don't really like thatBecause nobody wants to listen
to their parents.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
That's the truth.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
So that's number one.
But if they come in and I'mgoing to keep it raw with them
I'm going to tell them thingsthat and you could say the exact
same thing their parents say,but they're going to take it
from you before they'll take itfrom their parents, but we did
the same thing.
We did the same thing.
We did.
It kind of blows my mind that Ididn't know.
It kills your perception.
I say this to my mom a lot.
I was like you know, and wetalk every day.
(25:47):
My mom and I talk every day.
That's awesome.
And I always say to her, likeall my cousins always loved Aunt
Trish, you know, Aunt Pat, youknow Aunt Pat, you know they
call her different things, AuntPatricia, and I was like, but
man, you were tough on us.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
And.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
I said but now, like you actually are pretty cool,
yeah, and she was like it tookyou this long to realize that?
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Yes, you know, but like Like you had to grow up and
become an adult, right, youknow?
Speaker 4 (26:13):
Because I grew up in an era where you're not friends
with your parents.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
I'm not your friend.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
That's kind of how it's different between saying we
don't want to talk to you.
That's different.
I didn't grow up in a householdwhere they were fighting for my
.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
No, our roles were established.
Very much so.
You're the child, they're theparent.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
You do as I say, not as you please.
Exactly that's what I heard,and I raise my kids that way.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
I mean I raise my kids.
I do believe a kid does have anopinion.
In a respectful way they cansay you know what their opinion
of something is.
But I do think you, a lot ofpeople, need to establish the
role they are and then do Ithink you can be friends with
your kids.
I think when they become anadult and they become
(27:04):
responsible, then there's whereyou can like with me and Adrian.
Me and Adrian is a real estateteam, okay, and Adrian, when she
first came to work for me, shedoesn't work for me now.
We're partners now.
But when she first came on theteam she worked for me and I
said to Adrienne we have to gofrom mother and daughter to now
(27:26):
I'm your employer and you got totake, you know, be able to
allow me to delegate to you, youknow.
But at the same time I had torealize is, you know, once we
cut off and all that kind ofstuff, we can have a friendship
as long as we both respect it.
Now, three years in, becauseAdrian was my assistant at the
(27:48):
time Three years in, adrian saidI want to be a partner.
What does that look like, mom?
I don't want to be yourassistant anymore.
And at first I'm like what doyou mean?
You don't want to be myassistant, cause it felt like
you were happy though.
Yes, I was happy, but it feltlike you know what do you mean?
But then that shift, it tookGod to show me she's outgrown
(28:11):
that position.
You should be happy, you should, you know, and, and she can
share the responsibility, and soI think that a lot of times
people don't get that.
Is that okay?
There's a time and a place foreverything.
And.
I think young people need tounderstand that, because some
out here say some of thecraziest things to their parents
(28:32):
and I'm like what?
Because you know we wouldn'thave got away with that.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
No, there's no way I didn't have that.
Nor would I even fix my lips tosay it was the respect it was
kind of like my dad would alwayssay.
He'd say, boy, when you finallycome to, you're going to be
looking at me from the ground.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
So that's kind of how he would talk, and you know
that I brought you in this world.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
I'll take you out.
Yes, they world.
Yes, they really said that aminute Okay, but but let me, let
me answer this question becauseI want to make sure that,
because this is so important,the kids, like I try to relate
with with kids my ministry areblack males.
I want to make sure that theysee like I love what the hundred
(29:15):
black men in middle Tennesseeis is doing.
I'm a member of the organizationand we have 100 kings and we
take them through, starting inthe fifth grade through 12th
grade and we have somecollegiate scholars as well, but
I love how they get to see allof these incredible leaders who
(29:35):
are at the top of their gameevery single month and get to
spend time with them, andleaders that look like them yes,
and that's important, I think,to my viewers I would say this,
and I say this all the time it'sno takeaway from you.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
When a black person says I want to be the example,
Like he just said, basicallyit's a call on his life.
He wants to mentor black males.
That doesn't mean that hedoesn't care for the opposite
rates of males.
It's just saying his callingand his area expertise.
(30:13):
He's chosen to go down thisroad.
But it doesn't take from anyoneelse, because I think I can
resonate with you.
You get what I'm saying.
Yeah, and our sons anddaughters.
You know I don't know if youknow this I have a black child
and I adopted a white child.
It was an employee of mine'ssister and I adopted my son and
(30:40):
it's wonderful and I show myblack child you know there is a
lot of good in our race.
I show my white child there's alot of good in his race, but
there's bad in both.
But I will say is that moreblack men need to see, more men
like you?
They need to see you can makeit.
(31:02):
You know, I've had thisconversation with my son.
I said there will never be aday that you walk out of this
house, that you have to worryabout not coming back in.
I said but your sister is adifferent situation and I think
when the world realizes it'sdifferent.
(31:24):
As a black man, you know, myhusband is a real estate
appraiser.
He's had guns pulled on him.
All kinds of different thingshas happened to David throughout
his career as a black man, youknow.
So I look up to you saying mycalling is is to show some black
men they can make it.
(31:45):
So my question is how?
How do you reach them?
Speaker 4 (31:54):
Well, I think like the hundred black men is one of
those good things that you can.
They're already there and Imentioned those students that I
mentor at the school.
Kind of the reason why I loveto do that is because you know a
lot of the kids, and I'm notsaying it's the whole thing, but
a lot of kids who go throughthe 100 Kings program.
(32:14):
they come from two-parenthouseholds.
They're parents.
Some of them have terminaldegrees.
A lot of those students aregoing to be just fine when I go
to this zip code it's not thesame.
I think that we can do all.
It's like a both-and.
It's kind of like havingmultiple kids you love your kids
(32:35):
the same, but you gotta lovethem differently, and it's okay.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
it's okay, I'm so glad you just said that you can
love your kids differently, andthat doesn't mean you love one
more than the other.
It's just the loves aredifferent right and it's okay
and you know what.
Speaker 4 (32:52):
You know what you need and, like I know, I was
treated differently than mysiblings in a lot of ways,
simply because I just I could dothe work, but I didn't.
I didn't want to really have tostudy, I could just go in and,
naturally, do pretty well ontests.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
That's my son.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
And when I was, I was so like you can't come home
with a B when I know you'recapable of making A's Like so we
would go through and look at.
From the time I can remember,look at report cards.
My dad said hey, you proved tome that you can make an A in
this class.
You can't come in with a C.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Yeah, I was raised the same way, so like those are.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
those are things that we have to do.
And see, I like to talk tostudents about things that they
normally wouldn't talk about.
So, like it's not uncommon foryou to go in somewhere and this
little kid asks you how muchmoney you make.
Yeah, you know, and I tell themhourly rate.
They don't know how tocalculate it.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
You know, because I know how to calculate it because
I'm in the HR department.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
I know how to like multiply the number times the
hourly rate and they give youyour annual pay.
But like I really think thatit's so important for kids to
just see positivity, because youjust never know.
They have to I always go inwith a positive mindset when I
get there because, you know,even if I'm having a bad day, no
(34:17):
one would ever know I'm havinga bad day because I don't carry
things into other situations.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
And I try not to have bad days and you got to make
sure your mood is not youprojecting negative, being
pessimistic.
I truly believe my parents toldme that if you go in things
positive, most likely it's goingto come out positive.
And just because you may behaving a bad day, because we all
have, okay, but why projectthat on someone else?
(34:48):
Because that could be the veryday that you're projecting that.
It could really truly make somedamage of what you, how, you
projected on someone else, andso we gotta have the emotional
intelligence to know thedifference, and a lot of people
lack that.
Speaker 4 (35:05):
We talked about common sense and book sense, but
then the other one is theemotional intelligence to know
the difference.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
Like you don't have to say everything that comes to
your mind, you know youunderstand why he's the CEO of
leadership, because he istelling you, as a leader, that
you don't have to literally telleverything you feel and bring
that on someone and you've gotto pick your battles.
Speaker 4 (35:31):
Or tell people what you don't know, like.
That's another part that youcan get from just understanding.
Like I grew up in 3127 inFraser in Memphis, in a rough
area, but like I understoodpolitics, like I learned
politics a long time ago in highschool.
And how I learned politics inhigh school was because I met
(35:54):
the previous police chief, yearsat least when I was in school.
I can't remember his name, butI met him in Memphis.
He asked me what high school Iwent to and I told him he said
we developed our gang task forceoff of your high school.
He said y'all had every gangand you had these neighborhood
cliques inside the school.
You never knew what was goingto happen.
I walked through male detectivesevery single day, right, every
(36:16):
single day, male detectives atschool.
But because I would help peoplewith their homework, no matter
who they were affiliated withand and I was I would go out of
my way to try to teach concepts.
A lot of guys were like hey,he's safe, don't, don't bother
him.
You know, and safe, don'tbother him.
And I even went back yearslater and one of my guys he's a
(36:37):
barber and he said man, he saidwe always knew you were going to
be somebody.
We always knew you weredifferent than us.
I said I grew up in the samearea, but we knew that you had a
higher trajectory than we had.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
You know why?
Because you speak with passion.
I ain't even known you thislong, but you speak with passion
and and what you believe andyou really care about Tennessee.
Speaker 4 (37:07):
And I also know this too.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
I knew that my parents, they didn't play well,
you had a mother that was ateacher, so I know she didn't
play.
And if somebody said, hey, thatwas a teacher, so I know she
didn't play Right, and ifsomebody said, hey, we're going
to go do this.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
I said, oh no, I'm out Because you knew, I already
knew.
So I mean, but like you know alot of the things, and this is
probably for the next iterationof this whenever we do it.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Yes, but a lot of things happened inside the
household.
It did inside the household.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
It did and if you Spoke on it.
If you have, I guess my pointI'm trying to make is when you
have parents that are payingattention to what you have going
on and you can't talk to them,how you're raised will leave
from outside that house andfollow you everywhere you go.
I agree, like I knew it wascertain things I wasn't going to
(37:53):
do and if I did do it.
I was going to sufferconsequences, and I try not to
do it Because your parents wasan example for you Exactly, but
I try not to do that with ourkids.
We try to make sure that youknow it's okay to express your
feelings, like we couldn't dothat growing up.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
No, like so.
But I want to make sure youremember when I was talking
about the opinion thing and Ihad to.
You know me and David had totalk this over in our marriage.
Is that David was brought uplike me and you that?
Speaker 4 (38:24):
whatever they said, control and command.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Okay, and so I had to get David to understand.
Is you know what?
Yes, we're the parents.
Yes, we make the last call, butit's okay for a kid to have an
opinion if they're speaking in arespectful way.
I don't think it's anythingwrong with a kid saying you know
(38:51):
, hey, mom, can you just thinkabout this?
But when we were growing up youcouldn't do that you know,
whatever they said went and itwas like okay, but how am I
going to express if you neverallow me to express?
So you've got all these youngpeople that are out here.
We want them to express and wewant them to do all these great
things, but if their parentsnever allow them to express, we
(39:12):
as mentors, we as leaders, haveto be the one to teach them that
their opinion matters, theirfeelings matter, and they have
to say and they can't speak justhappiness all the time.
You have to be able to speakabout what you're going through
and I think, in what you do fora living and what you do in your
(39:35):
community, you're given a voice.
You know you're given a voiceto so many people that the
parents never gave.
So I would say to you is hatsoff to you for that.
Keep going at that.
What would you say?
Tennessee needs more thananything.
We're almost about to wrap thisup, so now these are some next
(40:00):
couple questions.
Speaker 4 (40:01):
Yes, well, I'll say one thing that I've noticed just
from having these conversationsacross the state with top
leaders education permeateseverything.
So if you talk about economicdevelopment, education is
attached to it, because if youwant to have economic
development, people have to haveplaces to send their kids to
(40:23):
school.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (40:24):
I mean we talk about the prison system.
If people aren't reading ongrade level, then they're
illiterate, then that's kind ofa direct pipeline to prison.
So like we can talk about anybad thing or any topic,
education always permeates itand if we get that right, I
think, our state is doing abetter job with education than
(40:48):
it was 50 years ago.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
I agree.
Speaker 4 (40:50):
So, but I think that that's something that we can't
take our eye off the ball.
I also kind of think that Imean because you're asking about
some of the challenges, right,right, I would, I would say just
the amount of people who aremoving here, you know, yeah, I
(41:11):
mean, which is a beautiful thing.
You know, I mean, which is abeautiful thing.
I was with, I heard thegovernor speak recently and he
and he made a comment that Ididn't know.
But, this is apropos of the workthat you do.
He said that every hourTennessee is losing 10 acres of
(41:34):
farmland to development, andthat's a threat to what
Tennessee is known for.
We can't just let everybodycome in here, move and we build,
because then we're going tolose one of our most natural
assets.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
Tennessee, for one, is about families.
Tennessee is abouthomeownership Okay, but right
now there's been so manydifferent big developers or big
hedge funds that come in and buyup property and is making it be
(42:11):
more rentals than homeownership.
And Tennessee, this is a statethat we teach home ownership For
a first-time home buyer.
I will tell you, it's kind ofdifficult right now for a
first-time home buyer becauseyou know the price points in our
communities.
You know people are making moremoney in areas, in some areas
(42:38):
more than they've ever made, butit's the cost of living is
still high.
You know a one-bedroom inKnoxville I don't know about
Nashville, where you live, butone bedroom here is the average
of $2,000 a month.
You know that's a lot.
Think about when we started,when we got our apartments.
You know that's a lot.
And tack on it if you havechildren.
(42:59):
You know food is expensive, gasis expensive, just everything.
I think Tennessee as a whole Iwill say this compared to other
states, we're still At a lowerprice than other states, but we
still are expensive as well.
(43:21):
So I think that that's thebiggest thing that we need help
with is the homeless and peoplebeing able to have a roof over
their head.
Do you agree with that?
Speaker 4 (43:38):
Yeah, I think those are certainly some issues that
impacts a lot of people.
I mean, I know the pathway toreaching an American dream often
is tied to being able to haveequity in your home.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (43:52):
And when people if we have a population of too many
people who are renters, they'renot able to ever fully reach
their potential.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
And you're seeing more and more renters and that's
the sad part.
But I just pray that we havemore home ownership in Tennessee
.
Tennessee is a great state andthat's why people are moving
here, but I just I love thefamily part of Tennessee, that
we are the volunteer state.
We love our community and wewant to build up our community.
(44:22):
So my next question is what issome of the most exciting or
impactful statewide initiativescurrently underway through
Leadership Nostle?
Speaker 4 (44:34):
if you can answer that, question Well, so for
Leadership Tennessee we aregoing to.
Actually, we have a new datefor our signature.
One of our signature eventsersis the honoree.
We had to push the date back toAugust, but it's August 28th.
(45:07):
We're honoring her for all she'sdone throughout the state and
what the Ayers Foundation doesto help create more in the rural
communities and educate peoplefrom rural areas.
This is such a greatorganization, but she's also a
great person and a big supporterof Leadership Tennessee.
(45:30):
But she's been honored, dollyParton.
Just to give you a backgroundon it, dolly Parton was the
inaugural recipient of the DollyParton Excellence Leadership
Award in 2018.
That was a five-yearcelebration and then once we
after that, knoxville's two ofKnoxville's finest Governor,
(45:52):
bill and First Lady ChrissyHaslam, received the award in
2021.
And now Mrs Ayers is going toreceive the award this August.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
That's amazing.
Speaker 4 (46:03):
So, Dolly Parton, recipient of the first award.
She gave the award to theHaslam's and this time the
Haslam's will give it to MrsAyers.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
So I'm not sure if she's going to make it in a 10
this time.
Speaker 4 (46:17):
Dolly was at the last one.
I don't know if she's going tobe at this one, but certainly
hope that she will be there.
But it's going to be a greatevent in Franklin, Tennessee.
We're going to be outside ofNashville in.
Franklin at the FranklinFactory and more information.
Speaker 3 (46:31):
August 28th.
Speaker 4 (46:32):
More information will be on our website, and it's not
just for.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
Leadership Tennessee alums.
Speaker 4 (46:37):
either it's for, we'll open it up.
We want to first sell to asmany alums as possible before we
open it up.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (46:44):
There'll be, non-Leadership Tennessee alumni
there as well.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
I would love to come.
I would love to come, so I hopethey open it up for others to
come outside the alumni.
Speaker 4 (46:53):
Certainly, I'll let you know.
Speaker 3 (46:54):
Yes, most definitely.
So what is the next?
What in the future?
You say the next thing that youwant Leadership Tennessee to be
known as.
Speaker 4 (47:09):
Well, the beautiful part of running an organization
like this is LeadershipTennessee.
Although we're new we'refounded in 2013.
Yes although we're new we'refound in 2013 yes, it has a huge
reputation across the nation.
That and that goes um to mypredecessor, who did an
excellent job leading it for thefirst several years before I
(47:31):
got here, and I think our teamhas done a good job of keeping
us on that upper trajectory.
Um, we're we're regarded as isone of the top statewide
community leadership programsand we're also a community with
others.
So I'm on the board for theAssociation for Leadership
Programs, which is the nationalboard.
Leadership Knoxville is a partof it as well, but we get
(47:52):
together with a bunch of othercommunity leadership programs
across the nation and we talkabout what's going on, and
that's really an insightfulconference because you get to
hear from people who leadorganizations similar to
Leadership Knoxville andLeadership Tennessee, but all
across the nation, and you getto learn and you get.
Speaker 3 (48:12):
inspired.
Speaker 4 (48:12):
You get inspired by it and I mean, like some would
say, like I would imagine thatpeople would look at the role
that I have and say you know, Ibet you get tired of hearing the
same thing.
I'm like well, actually wedon't hear the same thing.
I mean, some things you'regoing to get every single time.
Speaker 3 (48:27):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (48:28):
But I mean, I think about, like, when we come here
to Knoxville, big Jim Haslam isjust, oh my God, he is one of
the most remarkable people I'veever met in my life.
Yes, he is one of the mostremarkable people I've ever met
in my life, and when he can comeand talk to our members about
his life and all the things he'sdone and how much he loves
programs like ours, he lovesLeadership, knoxville, that's
(48:50):
his baby, but he really caresabout these programs.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
I heard from Senator.
Speaker 4 (48:56):
Alexander last night said he thinks that these
programs are so important to theoverall fabric of our state and
the region.
It helps us think about issuesand not just think about it.
But if you know if things couldbe solved, we have the right
people in the room from public,private and nonprofit sectors
(49:18):
who can actually move the needlein the direction we want to
move it Like that's the.
That's the most beautiful partabout running an organization
like this or even beingassociated with it.
It's like you get all thesesmart people in the room who
care about the state and say wewant to do some things.
I imagine we'll probably host agubernatorial debate.
We've done that before in thepast.
(49:40):
We partnered with theTennessean and, I guess, usa
Today to do those and we'recertainly going because we're
not about.
You're probably thinking, well,that's political.
No, it's not political.
These are people who arerunning and we want to make sure
our membership and those acrossthe state who we're associated
with have the opportunity tohear from the person who's going
(50:02):
to be the next governor.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (50:03):
And to see it because it's important and that's
really up my alley anyway,because I love the political
side of it.
Speaker 3 (50:09):
I was going to say your political background, but
those are things that I thinkthat we do very well.
Speaker 4 (50:14):
I think to be critical of leadership tendency
and I can't be too critical ofit, but I'll just say I wish we
had a little more ruralrepresentation.
I know we get to go to somerural areas and we're working on
that.
We're going through ourstrategic plan we already had it
and we're trying to fulfillwhat's in there for our metrics.
(50:37):
I really want us to look at thestate seal.
You know what two words onthere?
Do you know?
I don't want to put you on thespot.
The state seal I'll call you inrather than call you out but it
says agriculture and commerce.
Those are the two things thatare on there yes so if we're not
(50:58):
focused on the things that makeus such a great state,
particularly the agriculturepiece and the people in the
rural areas tend to do a littlemore farming than the urban
areas right?
Speaker 1 (51:10):
Right.
Speaker 4 (51:11):
So those are things we can get a little stronger in,
and we're trying our hardest tomake sure that we have a more
diverse population of ourmembership and I'm not saying
diverse in a way that that'sprobably a bad way to say now
diverse in terms of you knowlocation, you know diverse in
(51:33):
industry.
Yes, Because we can't have 30teachers right.
You know going through a programand we're going to talk about
everything that's going on.
It's probably a good thing forteachers to have their own
leadership program or somethingthey can do, but this was
designed to bring differentpeople who would never get
together into a room so they cantalk about issues, because we
(51:55):
make assumptions.
And I'll never forget my firstmeeting with Big Jim Haslam.
He said, alfred, you have oneof the most important jobs in
the state and and I was like Ididn't expect that.
But what he said was today welive in a society where people
retreat to their corners andthey point and say I don't like
ivanka, but I don't know hereither, but I don't like her yes
(52:17):
and I.
It's something about our ownlife, but we're going to bring
you together.
Put you at a table and thenfocus on some issues that
improves our state.
That's beauty, and get to knowpeople.
Speaker 3 (52:31):
Who they are, instead of judging them across the room
when you really don't know them, don't know anything about them
.
I think that's the biggestthing like with leadership and
also me going through theprogram is they put 61 people in
a room and you know, you wouldthink I would have known quite a
(52:54):
bit of the people in my classbefore.
I only knew three people inthat class when I started and it
was a good thing I'll neverforget.
Speaker 4 (53:02):
But you probably sold them all their houses, though.
You just didn't know them.
You know, yeah, there you go,there you go.
Speaker 3 (53:07):
Yes, but I'm like I said to Tammy, I'll never forget
the first day she said to me.
She was like you probably knowthat a lot of these people are
here.
I was like Tammy, no, I don't.
And she goes.
Is that a bad thing?
I was like no, it's a goodthing.
I said because I want to meetnew people and I want to be a
great leader and you've got toget in a room with people that
(53:31):
has done more than you've donein your life and listen, you
know?
And when you're talking aboutJim Haslam, he spoke our very
first class OK, him and his wifeboth were there and both of
them, you know, shared.
And what my takeaway from himwas this man is 95 years old and
(53:54):
he is still wanting to be aleader and wanting to make a
difference, wanting to be aleader and wanting to make a
difference.
How can I ever stop being aleader when someone that has
done as much as this man hasdone he could say I want to
retire and I just want to.
You know, just be me for amoment.
No, not Jim Haslam, because hestood there.
(54:16):
I mean, he spoke there and saidyou know what Keep doing, keep
working, keep trying to makeyour community better, and so I
took away that.
Like I got more to do, I've gotmore to do.
If a 95-year-old person issaying they're still working,
who am I to say not to work?
Speaker 4 (54:40):
So I want to thank you for coming.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (54:41):
And sitting down and have a conversation.
The door is open always to you,you know.
I would love to bring you backon one of our panel discussions
because I think that you have alot to offer and I think people
want to hear.
Speaker 4 (54:54):
you know what is Alfred doing now, so thank you
for coming, thank you so much,and this has been great to be
here and to just really thinkabout some things that we do,
and I just want to express mygratitude for you inviting me
here today, thank you.
Speaker 3 (55:13):
Thank you Most definitely and, like I said, the
door is always open.
Tune in every Friday to Talk inTennessee.
Speaker 1 (55:35):
Bye guys, salsrealestatecom.
See our videos on yavanka'syoutube channel or find us on
facebook under yavanka landisand twitter at yavanka landis,
and don't forget to tell afriend about us.
Until next time.
Yavanka signing off.
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