August 22, 2025 • 51 mins
"Wisdom at a Cost" isn't just the title of John Matthews' book—it's the thread running through his extraordinary life story. In this deeply moving conversation, John opens up about growing up in a household dominated by his father's alcoholism and abuse, and how that environment set the stage for his own battle with addiction.
This is only part one of John's powerful story—tune in next Friday as we continue exploring his journey from addiction to redemption.
Purchase his book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Wisdom-At-Cost-Survival-Leadership-ebook/dp/B0F4XBTKF7
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Check us out to hear the latest on life in the
volunteer state.
Yvonca and her guests discusseverything from life, love and
business with a Tennessee flair.
It's a Tennessee thing, alwaysrelatable, always relevant and
always a good time.
This is Talkin' Tennessee, andnow your host, yvonca.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
This episode is brought to you by the Landis
team, your go-to real estatefamily in East Tennessee.
If you are looking to buy orsell, we are the ones you should
call.
Give us a call at 865-660-1186or check out our website at
YvoncaSellsRealEstatecom.
That's Yvonca Y-V-O-N-N-C-Asalesrealestatecom.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Welcome back to Talking Tennessee with Yvonneka.
I am your host and I am herewith a dear friend that just
wrote a fantastic book.
His name is John Matthews andhe wrote a book about wisdom at
a cost.
Welcome.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Thank you for having me Excited to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Most definitely Viewers.
This book is one of those youwant to run out and grab you a
copy of it, because I'll tellyou this when I picked up the
book, I read the first chapterand the title.
Let me say the title.
It does get you okay, but it'sjust real, it's raw, and he's
(01:27):
talking about his journey fromchildhood to becoming an adult
and now where he's at today, andso I'm so honored to tell your
story.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Well, thank you.
Thank you, I um uh, Iappreciate you saying that it uh
, it's not easy writing a book.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
No, it's not.
It's not easy writing a book,no, it's not, it's not easy
writing a book.
And I'll tell you I've wrote abook before and I'll tell you
the more personal you are aboutyour journey in life.
It's good and bad.
I'll say that because it willtake you back to places that you
felt like you got over.
Because it will take you backto places that you felt like you
(02:06):
got over.
You felt like you've healedfrom that type thing and you
realize it still stings a littlebit.
But the best part about it isto me is it tells you about you.
It really it's a personal thingwriting a book, especially with
his journey.
Let's start with a goodquestion who is John Matthews?
Speaker 4 (02:41):
I, you know, I'm just a young boy at heart that's
still trying to make it in theworld.
You know, just like anybody,try to learn from our mistakes.
Try to, you know, understandthe wisdom that that's being
presented to me.
And as as we get older, we justwant to make less of them
Mistakes.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
We do.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
You know it's.
We're not going to stop makingmistakes, we just want to make
less of them.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
And we want to use wisdom.
I feel like in the right way.
And our life to me, the olderyou get, is simplified, and so
it's like, okay, I've learnedfrom this.
How can I help others to learn?
You know, I know with me.
It's like I try to tell youngpeople certain things that, hey,
(03:25):
if you learn it at this age,imagine when you get to my age
how strong you're going to be.
But I'll tell you, I come froma small town, you come from a
small town, and let's talk aboutwhat it's like growing up in a
small town and having traumafrom childhood.
(03:46):
What was your childhood like?
Speaker 4 (03:48):
That's a good question.
You know I didn't understandthis word codependent.
It gets tossed around a lot inmainstream and until I really
understood, because I threw itout like I knew what it was, hey
, I'm codependent.
I'm codependent and had itreally all wrong.
And you know, essentially, ifyou have a parent that's an
(04:09):
alcoholic or addicted toanything drugs of any sort and
they have this dependency thatis controlling their livelihood,
their choices, their decisionsas a parent, everybody around
them then becomes codependent totheir dependency and breaking
(04:31):
from that is extremely hard.
The household I grew up in wasa family of five.
I have a twin brother.
We are fraternals, we do notlook alike, but he is bald, just
like, like I.
Uh, we weren't going to escapethat, uh, that family tree, but
no um, so I have a twin brotherand an older sister family of
(04:52):
five, uh, and my father wasactually married once before and
the the marriage before itlasted about five years.
He had one daughter left whenshe was about two years old.
And just to kind of give you acomparison of the household I
grew up in and this idea ofcodependency, two, you know, mom
(05:15):
remarried.
She had a stepfather, has aquote unquote normal life.
She's been married 30 plusyears, two boys growing up.
You know, most would consider asuccessful marriage and a
(05:38):
normal life versus the housethat me and my brother and my
sister grew up in.
All three of us were in and outof jail and all three of us
were on drugs from this chaoticenvironment and that really, you
know, is the, in my opinion,the driving factor of most of my
bad decisions.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Right.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
Growing up in that type of environment.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Well, one thing that being your father, especially
with you being a man, a lot ofyoung boys pattern after their
fathers.
They do, and they look up totheir fathers, and so you're
seeing your father spiraling outof control.
What was it like to be in thehousehold with your dad on a
(06:20):
day-to-day basis?
What was it like?
Was he a functional alcoholicor was he a crash alcoholic?
Speaker 4 (06:28):
He was absolutely a functioning alcoholic, okay, but
externally, when he'd be out inpublic, people loved him.
You know, he was charismatic,he did all the great things, but
when he came home it was just adifferent person and the best
way I can describe it is he wasjust not healed from his own
childhood.
You know his father left whenhe was a young age.
(06:49):
He had a stepfather that was,you know, abusing his sister
when they were really young.
So there's there's an avenuethere that can cause his
childhood trauma.
But instead of being a man andactually going to deal with it
and heal from it, he just wantedto take it out on everybody
else.
(07:09):
He eventually got sober, youknow, at some point when we were
still in early adolescence, butthat, you know, still walked on
eggshells when you were around.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Yeah, so he basically got up every day and to the
public he was this great person.
But to his children, and wifeand wife.
Yes, uh, he was this personthat wasn't that kind at a very
young age.
How did that um start out yourpath?
Speaker 4 (07:44):
Well, I didn't know.
People live differently.
You know when you're, whenyou're in that environment, you
have nothing to compare it to.
So I just thought that's whatnormal everyday life looked for
all kids and I didn't really putit all together until I had a
child of my own.
You know, back to what you said,that some people grow up, want
(08:04):
to be like their fathers, theylook up to them, and I think
this is, uh, you know, certainlythe case in a lot of people's
lives where their father is analcoholic and all these things,
and they grow up to be analcoholic or, uh, they do want
to do the total opposite.
And this, essentially, was whatI did.
Um, you know the way, the waythat he treated us versus the
(08:25):
way I treated my daughter, twototally different individuals,
totally.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
And let me say this A lot of times people don't
understand.
There's two ways.
Ok, either you grow up and yourealize I want to be a better
parent than the parent I had,than the parent I had.
But then there's other sidesthat pattern their self right
after that parent and go intobeing the abuser in their
(08:51):
children's lives.
Was was he physically abusiveto you and your brother and
sister?
Speaker 4 (08:56):
Both physically and verbally.
Just the worst part was thedemeaning, the demoralizing into
everybody, and I think he didit just to, to make himself feel
better.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
you know, Um but did he ever try to get help or did
he not see it as I need help?
Speaker 4 (09:17):
Yeah, he was very proud, you know very egotistical
, um and no, he, to my knowledgehe never tried to seek help.
If he did, it didn't, it didn'tshow.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
How did your mom deal with the day to day?
If you don't mind me asking shehad her own vices.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
She was, you know she was addicted to food.
You know just kind of she ateher way to happiness.
If you will spent money, sheliked this.
You know shopping, you know allthese things that kind of vices
and she put up with it.
You know, and I think she wasthe first one in the family that
(09:57):
filed for divorce and I meanthat, like in our intermediate
family, it just wasn't heard of.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Yeah, Especially back then.
No, and back then a lot offamilies were taught that don't
bust up your family.
Yeah, you know, no matter what,even though you're telling
people to stay in an abusiverelationship and you're not
thinking about because I canliterally say I didn't grow up
in an abusive relationship, butmy family, I didn't see divorces
(10:25):
, and then my mom and dad got adivorce and was angry at first,
but after a year, after theyseparated, I realized that my
parents needed to get a divorcebecause it can make you
dysfunctional.
You know that type of thing ata very young age, so I know that
you probably endure thatyourself and your mom probably
had a sense of let down.
(10:47):
I'm letting my family down.
I'm letting my children down,you know, by separating,
especially if she's never seenit in her family.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And you know, watching it thereare some things.
Looking back I'm thinking whydidn't she leave then?
But you know, we didn't evenknow as kids that that's an
option.
Right you know you're so youngand so innocent and just.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
And most kids don't want to see their parents
separate anyway.
No no, for whatever reason.
They want the family to staytogether.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
And it's more common now.
I feel like if you go to anyschool system, the majority are
now parents that are nottogether, versus when we were
younger, you know the majorityof our parents were together and
the anomaly was the ones thatdivorced.
But you know, I remember a timewhere you know where our
(11:39):
bedroom is at in the hallwaythey had this argument and he
kicked in.
You know, broke the.
She locked herself in the roomto protect herself and he's
kicking down the door oh wow infront of our and our doors open,
so um so you're looking back,there was no boundaries.
Yeah, I was like, why didn't sheleave then?
Speaker 3 (11:54):
right now.
Um, some women.
I'll say, uh, I've talked tosome women in the past and they
say I just didn't have thestrength to do it.
Um, but you look back and youthink you know why didn't you
leave?
And then let's talk about thisA lot of times back then, even
some.
Now a lot of women stay in itfor the financial aspect of it
(12:17):
because say that they notworking.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
Yeah, they feel like yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
how can I do this on my own?
How am I going to take care ofmy children?
I don't want to be homeless.
I don't want my kids to behomeless.
I don't want them to come outof what they are used to, but
it's still abuse, yeah.
So what were your emotional andphysical consequences of
reaching for turning to drugs?
Speaker 4 (12:42):
Yeah, that, uh that yeah, that that it happened
slower but faster than I, than Ithought, I guess.
In some senses I was 13, 14years old.
I was hanging around somefriends in middle school that
(13:03):
that smoked weed, you know Right, and the only thing I wanted to
do was smoke cigarettes becauseI just thought I was cool.
So I'd steal cigarettes from mydad, or you know, this friend
that smoked weed would bring apack of cigarettes that he got
from his older brother and wewould ride four-wheelers.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
And that was at 13?
.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
This is at 13 years old, yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Very young age, very young age.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
Yeah, and you know, one day we're out in the woods.
I actually am originally fromSouth Florida, so this is in a
part of South Florida that wasin the middle of the Everglades.
There was nothing around.
It wasn't a large city, it wasvery, very rural.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Very rural, very rural yes.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
And you know very rural, yes and uh, you know, of
course, probably wasn't much todo, not much to do.
Um, you know we weren't trackedon a life 365 app.
Right, you know just what wehave now, what we have now, you
know you're out there just doingwhatever you're wanting to do,
um, and then, just one day I wasout of curiosity, just like hey
, let's, you know, I'd like toget high.
And of course my friend's eyeslit up like he's like.
Finally, you know, I've beensmoking by myself this whole
(14:11):
entire time and you knoweverybody talks about that peer
pressure.
I didn't see that.
I didn't have that.
He didn't say you know, oh, weneed to smoke.
You're such a you know, s didhis thing, I did my thing.
Until one day I was just likecuriosity kills the cat, I guess
, right, right.
And I remember when I got home,nobody found out.
(14:33):
Sky didn't fall, you know.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
I didn't go to jail, you know all these things, I got
to do what I wanted to do and Igot away with it.
And you got away and I got awaywith it.
You thought you got away withit.
I thought I got away with it.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
Keep going and so from there progressed into
trying new drugs, which, oddlyenough, the next two drugs I
tried was acid and cocaine.
So if you think about justgoing all in.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
You went to the extreme, went to the extreme.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Did anybody in your family at that time know you
were doing anything?
Your siblings?
Speaker 4 (15:06):
No, and they were not .
You know my older sister.
See if I was 14, she was 16.
She was driving.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Okay, so she had her own thing.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
But was certainly not in drugs Now smoking cigarettes
probably, Drinking beerprobably, you know.
But we didn't hang out becauseI was, you know, young and she's
the cooler older sister, right,Right, she's now a junior
sophomore, junior in high schooldriving, and her younger
brother's still in middle school, so you know.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
So did your twin hang out with you, or did y'all just
have your own set of phones?
Speaker 4 (15:37):
No 100 percent, he and I.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
OK, yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
Well, and it's because you know dad didn't
really, because you know daddidn't really, he, he did enough
to my sister, not sexually ornot physically, but enough to,
to you know, make her make badchoices and self-esteem.
But now my brother and I beingmales, no holds barred.
(16:01):
The crazy thing is I don'tremember most of the time.
You know I got beat, but Iremember all the ones he did.
It's almost like you kind ofdisassociate at the time, but
you know there's, there's acouple of things kind of blocked
out of your mind that Iremember just my brother and
just wishing I could help.
But I couldn't.
You know, he's obviously fourtimes my size, so he and I
(16:23):
always stuck together.
We had, we shared a roomtogether.
You know, you're a twin, youknow we all have best friends
and we all have these, thesefriend groups that we have
throughout adolescence, whetherit's elementary school, middle
school, high school.
Sometimes it's one person thatgoes through all those stages
with us, but maybe eventuallythey move on, whereas, you know,
(16:44):
I still got this guy.
I'm 44 years old and my bestfriend is still alive and still
knows everything about me.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
And I can trust, and I can trust and I think viewers,
I want to put this out here youknow, childhood trauma is real,
it's real and every everybodydoesn't deal with trauma the
right way.
I'll say that.
I will say that you, I believethat you have to rise up from
(17:13):
the trauma.
You can't allow the trauma toconsume you.
And that's not saying that it'seasy, and so I wanted to put
that out.
There is that you know so manypeople out here have childhood
trauma that they haven't dealtwith.
So me and John's comingtogether to show you how he
dealt with it, how you know hemade bad choices, you know, and
(17:38):
he owns it.
That's the best part is you ownit.
So my next one is how didmethadone help?
How did that come into your?
Speaker 4 (17:46):
story.
Yeah, so fast forward a fewyears of bad choices.
I was kicked out of my house.
And as soon as I turned 18, acouple weeks after I turned 18.
And so I still was in highschool, still had to try to
finish high school because I'mone of those February babies.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
School because I'm one of those February babies and
and so being homeless at thattime and and not knowing where
to go or how to, did you?
Hear him say he was homeless.
Yeah, ok, let me go back.
Yeah, one thing, becausethere's IV drugs that was in
there.
Yeah OK, let's go back some.
Okay, how did you get fromsmoking cigarettes to weed, to
(18:31):
acid cocaine and now shooting up?
Take us back.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
That started, coincidentally enough, in this
term that I talk about in thebook.
This, this addict brain, thisvoice inside of her head, that's
well, it's our own voice.
It sounds just like us and itknows exactly what we need to
hear to convince us to make abad decision.
And in this, in an addict formof it, it's a strong voice and
(19:04):
it it's patient.
It waits for the rightopportunity to just kind of come
on in and tell you what youneed to hear.
So you just make a bad decision.
And the crazy thing about thisvoice and not to go on a side
tangent here but if, if I was totell you why I'm about to make
this bad decision, you just lookat me and say no, that sounds
(19:26):
like the dumbest thing I everheard, but to me it makes
complete sense and it's notmeant to convince you or anybody
else.
So if I verbally speak it out oflike, hey, I'm going to go
shoot this pill in my arm andthis is why I mean you just be
like, well, that's the dumbestthing I've ever heard.
(19:47):
Like that sounds crazy.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
So most people do it in silence.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
Yeah, they do it in silence and um, and that voice
is not meant to convince anybody, but you, it's your voice, it's
your attic brain, it's it's,you know, and we all have our
own vices and you have thatvoice inside your head and maybe
I'm going to not get up today,I'm not going to go work out
today.
I'm, whatever it may be, or I'mgonna, I deserve this cookie.
I'm about to go eat.
You know, I've been eatingclean for a week.
I get up one piece of cake, youknow, um that's true where,
(20:12):
whereas I would say now you know, you told me you're gonna be on
this diet.
Why are you giving up?
Speaker 3 (20:16):
but you right in your mind, your own, so oh I can
have this, you know, even thoughyou're affecting yourself
throughout that you know, I'vebeen trying to eat cleaner
lately and and I'm over herelike, okay, so if I make this
salad, but if I put a wholebunch of dressing on it, am I
(20:37):
really eating cleaner?
Speaker 4 (20:38):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
And so you probably in your mind felt like okay.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
You know it's going to be okay.
I'll try it one time.
I, you know, I.
You know it's gonna be okay.
I'll try it one time.
I you know, I, you know.
I hear people say that I'll tryit one.
I've tried it one time.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
Thought it was gonna be just a one-time thing and
they were automatically well,and I bring it into this, uh,
next portion, because I was abartender and so, um, when I
took a hydrocodone, which isjust a pill that you get from a
doctor, that might do somesurgery or maybe had a wisdom
(21:11):
tooth taken out.
You know something, and my brain, my addict brain, correlated
with me taking that to make itmore money as a bartender.
It was more personable, I wasJohnny on the spot, you know
people like me, okay, um, and soI deserve to make more money,
right?
Speaker 3 (21:31):
right, so why not take another pill every time I
worked?
So was you at home then stillat home?
Speaker 4 (21:38):
I or had you already moved out.
So my first dabble intohydrocodone was still at home,
still in in high school.
Okay.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
You know, there's a story I tell in a book about the
ripple effect and, and you know, casting that first stone and
you don't really know, it couldbe a ripple of generosity or it
could be a ripple of, you know,detriment.
And I've casted both.
You know, uh, one you wish theripples would stop immediately
and the other one you'recheering on the sideline that
they keep on going.
But essentially, uh, I wasstill in high school when I,
(22:18):
when I first dabbled into it.
But when it took a turn for theworse, it was where I was
consistently taking them everyday off the streets, and that
was when I was already kickedout.
I was, you know, over 18 yearsold now and that's when it
really, from 18 to about 22years of age were probably the
worst.
I think I just counted it upthe other day I had, by the time
(22:44):
, november of 1999, which Iwould have been 18, six, seven
months by then.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Okay, Eight months maybe Okay.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
Was arrested four different times.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
Yeah, and they did stop there.
I mean, I was arrested multipletimes after that too.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
So let's go back to your dad.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
When all this was going on?
Did he know?
Speaker 4 (23:06):
The first time I was ever arrested.
He knew, but the other ones Idon't know if he knew but what?
Speaker 3 (23:12):
what was his reaction to it?
Did he just?
Did he bail you out?
Speaker 4 (23:15):
he actually did.
He actually came and picked meup.
Yeah, I didn't know it's who tocall.
I was uh, but it was.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
I was under age, I was 17 17 I was 17 and so the
man that introduced you to anaddiction yeah, okay, showed you
his addiction was picking youup from jail called.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
I think they called him is.
I didn't call okay, yes, oh, 17, they probably did yeah, um,
but no, then the other ones, um,I just called a bail bondsman.
You know, nobody had to know,except for the bail bondsman,
and she was great.
She'd always sit out there andsay what did they accuse you of
now, john?
I mean, she was always in mycorner.
So you had a relationship withthe bondsman, can you believe
(23:59):
they said I was doing this,which clearly I was guilty?
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Yes, but she, but again, you had somebody, a
bondsman, tell, basically tellyou, it's okay, you know, I'm
gonna come get you.
You know that type thing, eventhough they were getting paid,
you know that type thing.
Speaker 4 (24:16):
But as ace bonding, by the way, if you ever need to
get bonded.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
I don't even know if she's still doing it or yeah,
that was 20 something years ago,but you think about that, that
the bondsman was telling you hey, john, what John, what they do
to you this time.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
So, as I didn't have the money to pay her, she would
just say come by my house, shelet me.
I knew where she lived and Iwould just go give her money as
a bartender.
So as I made money, I paid mydebts off to her.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Really, oh wow.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
She was a great woman .
Speaker 3 (24:43):
So by that time he was 18.
Yes 18 years old you.
You got popped on the handseveral times, you know four
times arrested.
So where did you go from there?
Speaker 4 (24:55):
you know, just irresponsible, all the things,
and didn't even see my life asspiraling.
You know, I just thought it wasnormal.
The group of friends I washanging out with also went to
(25:19):
jail, so like, it just seemedlike this is just normal and
then, once I was introduced toOxycontin, you know, clear into
I was probably 20, 21 years old,Addicted to that oh my gosh, so
many people got addicted toOxycontin Crazy.
And you know again.
(25:39):
I remember the first time I wasintroduced to it.
I remember where I was at.
I remember it was a 40milligram Oxycontin, which is a
yellow pill.
I remember watching this guy.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
That sounds like a lot.
Is that a lot?
Sounds like it?
Speaker 4 (25:54):
Yeah, if you were to compare it to this surgery, this
wisdom teeth that we just, youknow, talked about.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
Those are typically five milligrams of hydrocodone.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Uh-huh.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
And um, but you just said 40.
I'm sorry, um, um, uh,oxycodone, okay and um, and so
40 is what you're taking all atone time, and essentially it's
about eight of those.
I mean, you think about it,five milligrams times eight,
that's 40.
So you would have to take eightof those pills at one time To
equal up to that one To equal upto that one.
(26:30):
And really, pain clinics.
Now that I didn't know thisthen, I know this now, but
essentially both can beprescribed to a patient.
So if you are in immense amountof pain and you went to a pain
clinic, they can prescribe youboth of these drugs.
And essentially the oxycontinis meant for a time-released,
(26:52):
long-term, long-acting um pain,uh, you know, um did you start
using it?
Speaker 3 (26:58):
was you getting those off the street?
Yes, absolutely so none of thatwas from a doctor anything like
that one point time.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Now, I'm sure it originally came from somebody's
doctor, just not my own, youknow.
So none of that was from adoctor, anything like that.
No, not at one point in time.
Oh my goodness.
No, I'm sure it originally camefrom somebody's doctor, just
not my own, you know.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
So you did IV.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
Yeah, that was a little bit later Beginning, just
if the viewers don't know.
You take the coating off thispill.
Okay, to take this time.
Release portion off of it andthen you crush it up and you're
going to snort it up your noseand that's where you're going to
get it all at one time, versusyou just taking it, swallowing
(27:36):
it, and it's supposed to actabout 12 hours.
If the same patient that haschronic pain is taking Oxycontin
morning and evening or eventhree times a day, if there's at
any given time someintermittent pain to where they
just are overwhelmed with it,they go to their medicine
cabinet and they can pull outthe same pills that we get from
(27:58):
our dentist and take for a shorttime, just an extra little pain
relief at that moment.
So, patients can be prescribedboth.
That's a lot.
It's a lot, that's a lot.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Especially, you're at a young age.
You're hanging out in thestreets, you're hanging with
your friends.
You know you've got a father athome spiraling out of control.
At that time, was your mom anddad still together?
Speaker 4 (28:25):
Yes, them spiraling out of control.
At that time, was your mom anddad still together?
Yes, he was.
No, he finally got sober andthey were still together.
My brother was living with me,my sister was living on her own,
ok, and but eventually my momdid leave my father through all
this and he would eventuallycome back and apologize to me,
(28:48):
knocked on my door one day anddidn't know who was at the door,
and I opened it up and it washim.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
Was you receptive of it?
Speaker 4 (28:57):
Well, the apology at that point was for him kicking
me out and basically cutting meoff, you know, and that.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Did he know you were on drugs then?
Speaker 4 (29:10):
He knew I was on drugs.
I don't think he knew howsevere my addiction was.
I don't think he knew that Iwas addicted.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Did he realize that part of what he showed you?
Speaker 4 (29:20):
No, absolutely not.
Did he showed you?
No, absolutely not.
Did he take any?
Speaker 3 (29:22):
No, did he Never took any accountability for that.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
No.
And looking back, I was like,look, you knew that I was going
down this path and that neverbut one time that you stop and,
as a father, say, hey, son, thisis what I did and this is how I
came over my addiction.
And I can see the same thing inyou that I, that I had.
No, not one another, never hejust came to tell you that I'm
(29:47):
sorry for kicking you out yeah,and the only reason he came to
apologize, because my mom lefthim and he was all by himself
and he probably thought thatwould help him with your mom
maybe maybe, or just you know,nobody else would, uh, you know,
be around him and he was justtrying to.
You know, I remember, after Iwent to therapy, which anybody
that's listening, I would alwaysrecommend go talk to somebody
(30:10):
um no matter what, even ifyou're the healthiest mindset
you've ever been in your entirelife, if you go actually talk to
somebody, you'll I believe intherapy.
Yeah, you'll understand, um,understand why you think the way
you do.
You know these individuals,these, these counselors that are
sitting across from us.
They've seen thousands ofpatients with the same stories
and they can easily put you in acategory and say, hey, I've
(30:32):
seen 900 other patients that hadyour same story and here's what
they do.
And you're like, oh, I do that.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
And say, oh, okay, oh okay I think a lot of people
look at therapy and viewers.
I really want you to understandthis.
Um, therapy is not just for adrug addict yeah therapy is not
just for um someone.
Therapy helps in so many ways.
I went through a divorce.
I went to therapy and I went totherapy because, to be honest,
(31:05):
I didn't want anybody else'sopinion.
I was hurting going through adivorce.
I didn't know how to expresswhat I was going through, and so
I felt like if I went totherapy and talked to somebody
that didn't, that's not myfamily, not my friends, any of
that.
There would not be judgment ona on a way of that person.
(31:31):
If they were going to judge me,it would be judging me to help
me to get past it, not what youreally subscribe to.
You see what I'm saying.
And so, and then, even withwhen me and David had
miscarriages, my doctorliterally said I want you to go
to therapy.
You know you've had a lot ofmiscarriages.
You just lost your father andyou're not grieving.
(31:53):
You went back to work.
You didn't grieve.
There's no way you grievedbecause you just went right back
to work the week after all thathappened to you.
And so I want the viewers tounderstand that therapy is not
just for a drug addict and butit's a great if you are, that
you really need help and youfeel like that you're at that
(32:15):
breaking point and you don'thave to be at the breaking point
, it just to the point that youneed help.
There is so much help out there.
Please talk about.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
I mean, even for my specific scenario, I didn't go
to therapy until I was almost 40, if not 40 years old and I feel
like I healed on my own, whichI wouldn't recommend.
I'm not trying to say that, butjust that through guided
meditation, a lot of running and, you know, trying to decipher
(32:50):
things in my own head, I wasable to come through all this
and plus, once you get over adrug addiction that's both
mentally and physically bindingto you and you kind of overcome
that, you understand your mindin a different way and it's hard
for me to explain that tosomebody that's not done it, but
it's sort of like you tap intoa part of your brain that you
(33:14):
didn't know you had control over.
And then once you kind of, it'skind of of um, it's kind of
like that courage and confidence, Like you have to have the
courage to do something and theconfidence follows later.
It's like once you've done it,then you have the confidence
like, well, I already did this,I could probably do this.
And so, um, when I went totherapy, I was happy, I was, uh,
(33:36):
probably thriving, uh, justbuilt my house, I had a
beautiful home.
You know, things were better,things were better, and but when
I went and I started talking toher, I was like, you know,
here's what I do, this is what Ido.
And she just showed me aroadmap and she's the one
encouraged me to go talk to mydad about my childhood.
(33:58):
And here's the one whoencouraged me to go talk to my
dad about my childhood.
And here's the crazy thing whenI went to I don't say this in
the book, but because- he wasgetting exclusive he's.
He eventually had developedAlzheimer's, you know, and he
got dementia and I had to puthim in a, in a assisted living.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
So you had to take care of somebody that brought so
much hurt.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
Yeah, there was nobody here.
So my brother lives in SouthFlorida.
My sister's still wayward ondrugs and in a jail to this day.
Oh, wow.
And then his first daughterlives in Florida as well and
just wasn't a part of his life.
I mean not that she didn't wantto see him and didn't
communicate to him.
I mean she still had thatyearning to know who her father
was.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
She just probably wasn't vested.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
Yeah, as much as a child normally would.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
Because she wasn't in the home and she didn't have
that relationship.
Speaker 4 (34:49):
No.
And then of course, my momremarried and of course she
divorced him 18, 20 years ago.
So I was all he had, and beforehe was to the point where he
because he was still living onhis own at this time she's like
you need to, you know, you needto have a conversation with him.
I think you're going to regretnot and she's saying it from a
point of hey, I have seen thisin my practice and you have an
(35:13):
opportunity not to regret it.
You know, not that you will orwon't.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
And let's stop there for a second second.
I've literally told friends andfamily that same thing.
If you cannot truly say, ifsomething happens to this person
and I did not go and air it out, you know I what I'm saying
(35:38):
Just you know, even if you'resaying you're the worst person
there is, but not having thatvoice and not being able to say
la, la, la, la, la, you know, towhoever it is, some people will
have that regret and I've toldpeople, even if you get the
regret and you didn't get thatmoment, okay, you need therapy
(36:00):
to get through that too, andit's okay.
I want people to understand.
This is that, say you did notget that moment, say you do have
regret, okay, you are the child, okay, and sometimes you're
just not there.
You just you can't, you don'thave the strength to do that.
(36:21):
And it was great that aprofessional told you hey, john,
you still have time, correct,you still.
And you made the decision to go.
Yeah, okay after work yeah, andsome people don't okay, I always
didn't okay but yeah, it soundslike you probably would have
regretted it if you didn't.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
Well, yeah, I think the answer that I was given when
I asked them said all I needed.
It did give me closure, butprobably not the closure that
you think.
But it was one day after work.
His house was on the way to myhouse work, he, his, his house
(37:03):
was, uh, on the way to my house,okay, so you know, of course, I
simmered on this idea oftalking to him about it for a
while and uh, probably rehearsewhat you're going to say, you
know how do you even bring it up.
And so one day with just like Ido a lot of things, I was just
like, oh, today's the day, I'mjust going going to go.
I didn't think about it.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
So was you still on drugs then?
Speaker 4 (37:20):
No, this is fast forward.
I'm 47 years old.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Okay, you're 47 years old, you've already went
through that and we're going togo back to a thing, but I want
to finish this out.
So you went to him and what?
Speaker 4 (37:30):
Yeah, I'm vice president of a multimillion
dollar company this time.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
And I'm like.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
I decided to go by his place and I hey, dad, you
home?
Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna have himstop by, okay, I mean I didn't
even tell him why, so I pull in.
Um, you know he's sitting inthe same old chair.
He got you know at this timehe's been divorced from my mom,
uh, 18 ish years, probably,maybe 16 ish years.
Uh, he did remarry at one pointtime.
(37:56):
That marriage only lasted likefour lasted like four months,
I'm sorry and the woman wantedto get an old because he was
just that bad of a person Likeshe didn't know until she lived
with him.
It's crazy.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
So was he still an alcoholic.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
No, just a mean dude Just says things that you
wouldn't want to say to a lovedone, exactly, and she wasn't
going to put up with it.
She's like I'm going to get outas well I can.
So I sit down at his apartmentand I, you know, just shoot him
straight.
I'm like Dad, I kind of want toknow why did you do all these
(38:33):
things and laid it out on thetable?
And he just looked at me, maybesilent for like two or three
seconds.
He's like I don't remember anyof that.
Uh, can you hand me that remotecontrol right there?
Oh, I said, I sure can dad, Ihand that remote control.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
I said I got to go and I left and that was it, and
it's exactly you told himeverything and he literally said
I don't remember none of that,didn't try to recognize it,
anything but that's.
And viewers I'm glad you'resharing this.
Okay, because I talk about.
(39:06):
You can say do whatever youwant, but the one thing you
cannot control is how someoneelse is going to react.
Yeah, and if you wait for thatreaction, you could be wasting
time, life and havingexperiences that are more
pleasing to your soul happiness,that type thing because it
(39:30):
sound like your dad.
He didn't want to takeownership to anything.
So it's easier to say, oh well,I don, well, I don't remember.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
I don't remember.
Yeah, that type of thing.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
So what was?
Let's go back a little bitabout your drug use.
What was the beginning of thechange?
What got you to realize I'vegot a problem and I got to
address this?
Speaker 4 (39:53):
Yeah, it happened a lot, actually, actually, and
it's hard to probably put inwords, but you know the first
few times when you actuallydon't have this drug.
And so what that would looklike is if I bought you know
this is before I got onOxycontin If I bought, or even
(40:16):
when I was on OxyContin, let'ssay I bought 20 pills and I had
enough to go to work take thepill.
There was no problem.
I mean, that's not like youwould know, I was on this drug,
except for my pupils beingextremely pinpoint, but other
than that there's no telltalesign.
I mean, I'm not drunk.
I'm not high.
I'm not, you know, goofy or red, you know red-eyed from being,
(40:39):
so nobody would know nobody knew, okay, and um, and so you can
just manage this lifestyle foras long as you want until you
either run out of money or yourun out of the drug.
And when you don't have moneyto buy the drug, or your dealer
or somebody doesn't have any,that's when you start going
through withdrawals and that'swhen you first get a taste of
(40:59):
like oh crap, I'm like, I don'tfeel good.
And like am I addicted to thesethings?
And so then you start needing,seeing where you need it every
day, just to function.
And if you don't have money,there's things you can steal,
you know.
I remember, uh, things you cansteal.
You know, Um, I remember, uh, Imean, I stole too many things,
(41:32):
broke bad checks up to probably$14,000 worth of bad checks.
Um, you know, uh, did a lot, alot of bad things just to feed
this habit, things I would neverdo as a normal individual.
And then, um, as soon as yougot a supply back or as soon as
you got more money, you feltlike it just went on the back
burner Like I'm good now, aslong as this I could ride this
train, I'm fine.
Until it, you know, reared itshead again and like you ran out
(41:52):
of money or you ran out of thedrug, and then that's when it
became a problem.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
And was there a certain thing that happened?
Finally address it.
Speaker 4 (42:05):
I tried to address it , uh, numerous times, and, and,
and what would happen is thisaddict brain and this voice of
mine, of all of ours, justwhispered in my head see you
quit.
You didn't.
You don't have a problem, itwasn't that hard.
Look, you've not had one pillin a week.
Two weeks a month.
(42:25):
You're not addicted, you've gotthis, you're in control, you've
got this.
And so you'd go back and say,yeah, I'd like to have one.
It's been a while.
I got some money and you snortanother one.
And the next thing you knowyou're right back in the cycle.
And then when I was eventuallyintroduced to IV drug use,
(42:45):
that's when things changed, youknow, and I was at the time
shooting 80s, you know.
So that's we go back to that.
You know, that pill that wetalked about from the doctor,
that's 16 of those bad boys atone time.
And I would shoot five or sixtimes a day.
Speaker 3 (43:06):
Was there a woman in your life?
Speaker 4 (43:08):
Yeah, there was the girl that I eventually married
and had a daughter.
With that I dated off and onand she didn't do any of this
stuff Now.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
she partied and loved a good time, you know whether
it was drinking or smoking, butshe wasn't doing that.
Did she know you were doing it?
Speaker 4 (43:27):
She did, and then I told her I quit.
And then I hid it from her OnceI told her I quit.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
So you went through the stage of hiding it.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
Oh, 100% yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
Oh, wow, so what.
Speaker 4 (43:38):
And then when you get away with it, you know you can
hide it.
You're just like, okay, youknow.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
So did you go to rehab?
Speaker 4 (43:47):
Did go to rehab, did you?
That's where the methadone camein.
Yeah, that's a um same guy thatactually introduced me to
shooting oxycontins eventuallywised up and he enrolled himself
into the methadone clinic andback in the late 90s, early
2000s, um the the same personyeah, okay, keep going.
Yeah, it's crazy.
Um he, uh, but yeah.
So which is medical assistedtreatment is what we call it,
(44:10):
and that's methadone, suboxone,vivitrol.
These are all the ones that youcan give to a patient to help
them off specifically opioids,which is heroin, fentanyl,
oxycontins, hydro, yeah,hydrocodone, all these pills and
so, um, essentially, back then,um, you know, we didn't have
(44:33):
suboxone, it was just methadone,and I didn't know this at the
time I wrote the book.
I thought it was actually thatwe didn't have, uh, um, vivitrol
either, but they did, and therewas a um, it's a shot now, but
back then it was was the thingthat would cut your skin open
and put like this foamunderneath your skin.
So it's, it slowly absorbs overlike a month period of time.
(44:53):
Crazy.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
OK, yeah, I didn't even know that existed.
Speaker 4 (45:00):
But anyways, this guy Matt.
He ended up going to themethadone clinic and he asked me
do I want to go with him?
And I was like no man, I can dothis on my own, like I don't
need to trade one for another.
That drug's even harder.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
Do you think he felt like, because he introduced you
to, that he wanted to help youget off of it, because that's
what he introduced?
Speaker 4 (45:19):
you to.
It could be, but it wasprobably more, that we were just
around each other all the time.
It would just be like me, andyou being best friends.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (45:29):
And instead of us going to a football game
together, we're going to go gethigh together.
I mean like, but you know,that's sort of, and then you
only want to be around thepeople that want to get high.
I'm not going to go hang outwith somebody that wants to go
to a football game, and do youknow activities other than
getting high, because gettinghigh, because it's I mean, I
(45:50):
don't want to do any of thatthis morning, right and so, um,
and methadone is a lot strongerand a lot harder to to come off
of than it is oxy so uh, I waslike I've heard that.
Speaker 3 (45:56):
Yeah, I've heard that .
Speaker 4 (45:57):
But I was like really , and so he goes, uh, don't see
him for a couple weeks actuallya few weeks, maybe a months and
he, he comes back and just goodskin, no bags underneath his
eyes, put on weight, lookinggood, was happy, was happy.
And comes into my apartment andhe says you got one for
(46:20):
tomorrow.
And of course I'm still strungout at this time, at this point
in my life, I have rotten teeth,malnourished, you know, iv drug
user track marks in my arm.
I ain't got one for tomorrow.
He said well, you didn't knowthis, but my first day down
there I put your name on thewaiting list and tomorrow's your
day.
And that changed my life.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
Yeah, I ended up calling my mom.
Speaker 4 (46:42):
Oh my goodness, I didn't have right not to answer
that phone.
You know I've lied to herthousands of times, so you went
in.
And she answered the phone whenI called and she gave me the
money and I went.
Speaker 3 (46:52):
Oh, wow.
So you went into rehab and wentthrough the program and you
came out.
Did you have a relapse oranything like that?
Speaker 4 (47:05):
Not after that, no, not after that.
Wow, did you have a relapse oranything like that?
Not after that, no, not afterthat.
Um, that, um now, uh, for the,for the viewers, the methadone
clinic, um, unless it's changed.
I'm not trying to throw shade,I am a proponent for MAT and I
think it helped me and I thinkit will help everybody, and
anybody that's in that situationshould get on it.
But, but there is no end insight.
(47:25):
If you want to be a patient atthe methadone clinic for 20
years, they'll let you you know,really yeah.
So that's why.
But you know, you're stillcontributing to society, you're
no longer stealing things and,as the addict, they still don't
want to deal with the demonsinside their head.
And you know, essentially,about a year later is when I
(47:49):
detoxed off it.
You know I was on 90 milligramsat the time.
They took me off 10 milligramsa week.
So nine weeks later I wentthrough the withdrawals and you
know that's when the real battlebegan.
But that was my rock bottom andin the chapter 19 of the book I
call it no one's coming, noone's coming.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
No one's coming.
Speaker 4 (48:09):
No one's coming.
Speaker 3 (48:10):
You're all by yourself.
Speaker 4 (48:11):
All by yourself.
I put myself there and I was.
The only person to get me outwas me.
And little by little I fixed myrecord, I fixed my teeth, I
enrolled myself back in school.
That was what I was about to askyou about EMT first and then
became in the emergency yeah, atthe time it was really great
timing because, um, once Ienrolled myself back in college
(48:35):
and I was like, okay, I'm gonnabe a fireman, you know, uh, the,
the first thing I needed to dois become an EMT, because
everybody that's like a, youknow, not a, but it's something
easily quote, unquote, easilyachievable, but it's going to
make you look a little bitbetter on the resume.
So I enrolled myself at WalterState and started the process
(48:57):
and when I graduated, became anactual EMT.
That very month Wow, thatactual very month the Knoxville
fire department was hiring 40new firefighters, which is
unheard of right.
Speaker 3 (49:10):
Yes, I was about to say that very.
I'm friends with a lot offiremen.
Speaker 4 (49:14):
It's just such a good job, nobody leaves it, you know
unless somebody dies or theyretire.
I was about to say they're,they're not an opening.
That's true, unless they'regoing to build a new station in
an area and say, hey, we need,you know, 30 new firemen.
But essentially Oak Ridgeopened up a new fire department
and they needed to staff it.
In this I mean, which took, youknow, 60, 80, 90.
(49:35):
I don't know how many people,but they took it from the
surrounding areas.
And Knoxville had 40firefighters leave and the
Gatlinburg Fire Department hadfive leave.
Speaker 3 (49:42):
Is that what helped you to gain your identity?
Now I'm off of drugs?
Is that what helped you to gainyour identity Now I'm off of
drugs, now I've, you know,worked on my health and going
down a healthy way?
Is that what?
Putting your time into service?
Yeah, is that, is that OK?
Speaker 4 (50:00):
Yeah, that's what I'm taking from that.
Yeah, my passion and myfulfillment, and still is to
this day, is helping others, youknow, and I think it stems from
being wanted.
You know, you grew up in ahousehold that you don't feel
loved or wanted and then thesepeople are, you know, calling
(50:20):
911 for you to come help themand they want you there and you
are helping them.
I mean, it comes with a feelingthat's, you know.
You know I never experiencedbefore and I was good at it, you
know.
I went to school um, it was thefirst time I was making A's on
tests and and I graduated top ofmy class, got all kinds of
accolades and awards from um,the college, um, and again, once
(50:42):
I graduated, I applied at bothKnoxville and Gatlinburg Fire
Department because I didn't carewho was going to hire me, but I
did the physical agility testfor both of them.
I did the exam for both of them.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
And the.
Speaker 4 (50:53):
Gatlinburg Fire Department was just the one that
called me back first.
Speaker 3 (50:56):
So for everything you went through, it really
prepared you for something.
We got to stop right therebecause you know what viewers
we're going to do a part two,know what viewers we're going to
do a part two.
I'm going to bring him backnext Friday because this story
has not been told and we justneed to keep it going.
Let's go Next Friday.
John Matthews.
Speaker 1 (51:19):
Thanks for listening to Talkin' Tennessee with Yvonca
.
Watch out for our weeklyepisodes from the first family
of real estate and check us outon the web,
wwwyavancasalesrealestatecom.
See our videos on Yvonca'sYouTube channel or find us on
Facebook under.
Yvonca Landis and Twitter atYvonca Landis.
(51:41):
And don't forget to tell afriend about us.
Until next time.
Yvonca signing off.
Check us out to hear the latest on life in the
volunteer state.
Yvonca and her guests discusseverything from life, love and
business with a Tennessee flair.
It's a Tennessee thing, alwaysrelatable, always relevant and
always a good time.
This is Talkin' Tennessee, andnow your host, yvonca.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
This episode is brought to you by the Landis
team, your go-to real estatefamily in East Tennessee.
If you are looking to buy orsell, we are the ones you should
call.
Give us a call at 865-660-1186or check out our website at
YvoncaSellsRealEstatecom.
That's Yvonca Y-V-O-N-N-C-Asalesrealestatecom.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Welcome back to Talking Tennessee with Yvonneka.
I am your host and I am herewith a dear friend that just
wrote a fantastic book.
His name is John Matthews andhe wrote a book about wisdom at
a cost.
Welcome.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Thank you for having me Excited to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Most definitely Viewers.
This book is one of those youwant to run out and grab you a
copy of it, because I'll tellyou this when I picked up the
book, I read the first chapterand the title.
Let me say the title.
It does get you okay, but it'sjust real, it's raw, and he's
(01:27):
talking about his journey fromchildhood to becoming an adult
and now where he's at today, andso I'm so honored to tell your
story.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Well, thank you.
Thank you, I um uh, Iappreciate you saying that it uh
, it's not easy writing a book.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
No, it's not.
It's not easy writing a book,no, it's not, it's not easy
writing a book.
And I'll tell you I've wrote abook before and I'll tell you
the more personal you are aboutyour journey in life.
It's good and bad.
I'll say that because it willtake you back to places that you
felt like you got over.
Because it will take you backto places that you felt like you
(02:06):
got over.
You felt like you've healedfrom that type thing and you
realize it still stings a littlebit.
But the best part about it isto me is it tells you about you.
It really it's a personal thingwriting a book, especially with
his journey.
Let's start with a goodquestion who is John Matthews?
Speaker 4 (02:41):
I, you know, I'm just a young boy at heart that's
still trying to make it in theworld.
You know, just like anybody,try to learn from our mistakes.
Try to, you know, understandthe wisdom that that's being
presented to me.
And as as we get older, we justwant to make less of them
Mistakes.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
We do.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
You know it's.
We're not going to stop makingmistakes, we just want to make
less of them.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
And we want to use wisdom.
I feel like in the right way.
And our life to me, the olderyou get, is simplified, and so
it's like, okay, I've learnedfrom this.
How can I help others to learn?
You know, I know with me.
It's like I try to tell youngpeople certain things that, hey,
(03:25):
if you learn it at this age,imagine when you get to my age
how strong you're going to be.
But I'll tell you, I come froma small town, you come from a
small town, and let's talk aboutwhat it's like growing up in a
small town and having traumafrom childhood.
(03:46):
What was your childhood like?
Speaker 4 (03:48):
That's a good question.
You know I didn't understandthis word codependent.
It gets tossed around a lot inmainstream and until I really
understood, because I threw itout like I knew what it was, hey
, I'm codependent.
I'm codependent and had itreally all wrong.
And you know, essentially, ifyou have a parent that's an
(04:09):
alcoholic or addicted toanything drugs of any sort and
they have this dependency thatis controlling their livelihood,
their choices, their decisionsas a parent, everybody around
them then becomes codependent totheir dependency and breaking
(04:31):
from that is extremely hard.
The household I grew up in wasa family of five.
I have a twin brother.
We are fraternals, we do notlook alike, but he is bald, just
like, like I.
Uh, we weren't going to escapethat, uh, that family tree, but
no um, so I have a twin brotherand an older sister family of
(04:52):
five, uh, and my father wasactually married once before and
the the marriage before itlasted about five years.
He had one daughter left whenshe was about two years old.
And just to kind of give you acomparison of the household I
grew up in and this idea ofcodependency, two, you know, mom
(05:15):
remarried.
She had a stepfather, has aquote unquote normal life.
She's been married 30 plusyears, two boys growing up.
You know, most would consider asuccessful marriage and a
(05:38):
normal life versus the housethat me and my brother and my
sister grew up in.
All three of us were in and outof jail and all three of us
were on drugs from this chaoticenvironment and that really, you
know, is the, in my opinion,the driving factor of most of my
bad decisions.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Right.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
Growing up in that type of environment.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Well, one thing that being your father, especially
with you being a man, a lot ofyoung boys pattern after their
fathers.
They do, and they look up totheir fathers, and so you're
seeing your father spiraling outof control.
What was it like to be in thehousehold with your dad on a
(06:20):
day-to-day basis?
What was it like?
Was he a functional alcoholicor was he a crash alcoholic?
Speaker 4 (06:28):
He was absolutely a functioning alcoholic, okay, but
externally, when he'd be out inpublic, people loved him.
You know, he was charismatic,he did all the great things, but
when he came home it was just adifferent person and the best
way I can describe it is he wasjust not healed from his own
childhood.
You know his father left whenhe was a young age.
(06:49):
He had a stepfather that was,you know, abusing his sister
when they were really young.
So there's there's an avenuethere that can cause his
childhood trauma.
But instead of being a man andactually going to deal with it
and heal from it, he just wantedto take it out on everybody
else.
(07:09):
He eventually got sober, youknow, at some point when we were
still in early adolescence, butthat, you know, still walked on
eggshells when you were around.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Yeah, so he basically got up every day and to the
public he was this great person.
But to his children, and wifeand wife.
Yes, uh, he was this personthat wasn't that kind at a very
young age.
How did that um start out yourpath?
Speaker 4 (07:44):
Well, I didn't know.
People live differently.
You know when you're, whenyou're in that environment, you
have nothing to compare it to.
So I just thought that's whatnormal everyday life looked for
all kids and I didn't really putit all together until I had a
child of my own.
You know, back to what you said,that some people grow up, want
(08:04):
to be like their fathers, theylook up to them, and I think
this is, uh, you know, certainlythe case in a lot of people's
lives where their father is analcoholic and all these things,
and they grow up to be analcoholic or, uh, they do want
to do the total opposite.
And this, essentially, was whatI did.
Um, you know the way, the waythat he treated us versus the
(08:25):
way I treated my daughter, twototally different individuals,
totally.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
And let me say this A lot of times people don't
understand.
There's two ways.
Ok, either you grow up and yourealize I want to be a better
parent than the parent I had,than the parent I had.
But then there's other sidesthat pattern their self right
after that parent and go intobeing the abuser in their
(08:51):
children's lives.
Was was he physically abusiveto you and your brother and
sister?
Speaker 4 (08:56):
Both physically and verbally.
Just the worst part was thedemeaning, the demoralizing into
everybody, and I think he didit just to, to make himself feel
better.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
you know, Um but did he ever try to get help or did
he not see it as I need help?
Speaker 4 (09:17):
Yeah, he was very proud, you know very egotistical
, um and no, he, to my knowledgehe never tried to seek help.
If he did, it didn't, it didn'tshow.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
How did your mom deal with the day to day?
If you don't mind me asking shehad her own vices.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
She was, you know she was addicted to food.
You know just kind of she ateher way to happiness.
If you will spent money, sheliked this.
You know shopping, you know allthese things that kind of vices
and she put up with it.
You know, and I think she wasthe first one in the family that
(09:57):
filed for divorce and I meanthat, like in our intermediate
family, it just wasn't heard of.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Yeah, Especially back then.
No, and back then a lot offamilies were taught that don't
bust up your family.
Yeah, you know, no matter what,even though you're telling
people to stay in an abusiverelationship and you're not
thinking about because I canliterally say I didn't grow up
in an abusive relationship, butmy family, I didn't see divorces
(10:25):
, and then my mom and dad got adivorce and was angry at first,
but after a year, after theyseparated, I realized that my
parents needed to get a divorcebecause it can make you
dysfunctional.
You know that type of thing ata very young age, so I know that
you probably endure thatyourself and your mom probably
had a sense of let down.
(10:47):
I'm letting my family down.
I'm letting my children down,you know, by separating,
especially if she's never seenit in her family.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And you know, watching it thereare some things.
Looking back I'm thinking whydidn't she leave then?
But you know, we didn't evenknow as kids that that's an
option.
Right you know you're so youngand so innocent and just.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
And most kids don't want to see their parents
separate anyway.
No no, for whatever reason.
They want the family to staytogether.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
And it's more common now.
I feel like if you go to anyschool system, the majority are
now parents that are nottogether, versus when we were
younger, you know the majorityof our parents were together and
the anomaly was the ones thatdivorced.
But you know, I remember a timewhere you know where our
(11:39):
bedroom is at in the hallwaythey had this argument and he
kicked in.
You know, broke the.
She locked herself in the roomto protect herself and he's
kicking down the door oh wow infront of our and our doors open,
so um so you're looking back,there was no boundaries.
Yeah, I was like, why didn't sheleave then?
Speaker 3 (11:54):
right now.
Um, some women.
I'll say, uh, I've talked tosome women in the past and they
say I just didn't have thestrength to do it.
Um, but you look back and youthink you know why didn't you
leave?
And then let's talk about thisA lot of times back then, even
some.
Now a lot of women stay in itfor the financial aspect of it
(12:17):
because say that they notworking.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
Yeah, they feel like yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
how can I do this on my own?
How am I going to take care ofmy children?
I don't want to be homeless.
I don't want my kids to behomeless.
I don't want them to come outof what they are used to, but
it's still abuse, yeah.
So what were your emotional andphysical consequences of
reaching for turning to drugs?
Speaker 4 (12:42):
Yeah, that, uh that yeah, that that it happened
slower but faster than I, than Ithought, I guess.
In some senses I was 13, 14years old.
I was hanging around somefriends in middle school that
(13:03):
that smoked weed, you know Right, and the only thing I wanted to
do was smoke cigarettes becauseI just thought I was cool.
So I'd steal cigarettes from mydad, or you know, this friend
that smoked weed would bring apack of cigarettes that he got
from his older brother and wewould ride four-wheelers.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
And that was at 13?
.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
This is at 13 years old, yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Very young age, very young age.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
Yeah, and you know, one day we're out in the woods.
I actually am originally fromSouth Florida, so this is in a
part of South Florida that wasin the middle of the Everglades.
There was nothing around.
It wasn't a large city, it wasvery, very rural.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Very rural, very rural yes.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
And you know very rural, yes and uh, you know, of
course, probably wasn't much todo, not much to do.
Um, you know we weren't trackedon a life 365 app.
Right, you know just what wehave now, what we have now, you
know you're out there just doingwhatever you're wanting to do,
um, and then, just one day I wasout of curiosity, just like hey
, let's, you know, I'd like toget high.
And of course my friend's eyeslit up like he's like.
Finally, you know, I've beensmoking by myself this whole
(14:11):
entire time and you knoweverybody talks about that peer
pressure.
I didn't see that.
I didn't have that.
He didn't say you know, oh, weneed to smoke.
You're such a you know, s didhis thing, I did my thing.
Until one day I was just likecuriosity kills the cat, I guess
, right, right.
And I remember when I got home,nobody found out.
(14:33):
Sky didn't fall, you know.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
I didn't go to jail, you know all these things, I got
to do what I wanted to do and Igot away with it.
And you got away and I got awaywith it.
You thought you got away withit.
I thought I got away with it.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
Keep going and so from there progressed into
trying new drugs, which, oddlyenough, the next two drugs I
tried was acid and cocaine.
So if you think about justgoing all in.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
You went to the extreme, went to the extreme.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Did anybody in your family at that time know you
were doing anything?
Your siblings?
Speaker 4 (15:06):
No, and they were not .
You know my older sister.
See if I was 14, she was 16.
She was driving.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Okay, so she had her own thing.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
But was certainly not in drugs Now smoking cigarettes
probably, Drinking beerprobably, you know.
But we didn't hang out becauseI was, you know, young and she's
the cooler older sister, right,Right, she's now a junior
sophomore, junior in high schooldriving, and her younger
brother's still in middle school, so you know.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
So did your twin hang out with you, or did y'all just
have your own set of phones?
Speaker 4 (15:37):
No 100 percent, he and I.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
OK, yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
Well, and it's because you know dad didn't
really, because you know daddidn't really, he, he did enough
to my sister, not sexually ornot physically, but enough to,
to you know, make her make badchoices and self-esteem.
But now my brother and I beingmales, no holds barred.
(16:01):
The crazy thing is I don'tremember most of the time.
You know I got beat, but Iremember all the ones he did.
It's almost like you kind ofdisassociate at the time, but
you know there's, there's acouple of things kind of blocked
out of your mind that Iremember just my brother and
just wishing I could help.
But I couldn't.
You know, he's obviously fourtimes my size, so he and I
(16:23):
always stuck together.
We had, we shared a roomtogether.
You know, you're a twin, youknow we all have best friends
and we all have these, thesefriend groups that we have
throughout adolescence, whetherit's elementary school, middle
school, high school.
Sometimes it's one person thatgoes through all those stages
with us, but maybe eventuallythey move on, whereas, you know,
(16:44):
I still got this guy.
I'm 44 years old and my bestfriend is still alive and still
knows everything about me.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
And I can trust, and I can trust and I think viewers,
I want to put this out here youknow, childhood trauma is real,
it's real and every everybodydoesn't deal with trauma the
right way.
I'll say that.
I will say that you, I believethat you have to rise up from
(17:13):
the trauma.
You can't allow the trauma toconsume you.
And that's not saying that it'seasy, and so I wanted to put
that out.
There is that you know so manypeople out here have childhood
trauma that they haven't dealtwith.
So me and John's comingtogether to show you how he
dealt with it, how you know hemade bad choices, you know, and
(17:38):
he owns it.
That's the best part is you ownit.
So my next one is how didmethadone help?
How did that come into your?
Speaker 4 (17:46):
story.
Yeah, so fast forward a fewyears of bad choices.
I was kicked out of my house.
And as soon as I turned 18, acouple weeks after I turned 18.
And so I still was in highschool, still had to try to
finish high school because I'mone of those February babies.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
School because I'm one of those February babies and
and so being homeless at thattime and and not knowing where
to go or how to, did you?
Hear him say he was homeless.
Yeah, ok, let me go back.
Yeah, one thing, becausethere's IV drugs that was in
there.
Yeah OK, let's go back some.
Okay, how did you get fromsmoking cigarettes to weed, to
(18:31):
acid cocaine and now shooting up?
Take us back.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
That started, coincidentally enough, in this
term that I talk about in thebook.
This, this addict brain, thisvoice inside of her head, that's
well, it's our own voice.
It sounds just like us and itknows exactly what we need to
hear to convince us to make abad decision.
And in this, in an addict formof it, it's a strong voice and
(19:04):
it it's patient.
It waits for the rightopportunity to just kind of come
on in and tell you what youneed to hear.
So you just make a bad decision.
And the crazy thing about thisvoice and not to go on a side
tangent here but if, if I was totell you why I'm about to make
this bad decision, you just lookat me and say no, that sounds
(19:26):
like the dumbest thing I everheard, but to me it makes
complete sense and it's notmeant to convince you or anybody
else.
So if I verbally speak it out oflike, hey, I'm going to go
shoot this pill in my arm andthis is why I mean you just be
like, well, that's the dumbestthing I've ever heard.
(19:47):
Like that sounds crazy.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
So most people do it in silence.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
Yeah, they do it in silence and um, and that voice
is not meant to convince anybody, but you, it's your voice, it's
your attic brain, it's it's,you know, and we all have our
own vices and you have thatvoice inside your head and maybe
I'm going to not get up today,I'm not going to go work out
today.
I'm, whatever it may be, or I'mgonna, I deserve this cookie.
I'm about to go eat.
You know, I've been eatingclean for a week.
I get up one piece of cake, youknow, um that's true where,
(20:12):
whereas I would say now you know, you told me you're gonna be on
this diet.
Why are you giving up?
Speaker 3 (20:16):
but you right in your mind, your own, so oh I can
have this, you know, even thoughyou're affecting yourself
throughout that you know, I'vebeen trying to eat cleaner
lately and and I'm over herelike, okay, so if I make this
salad, but if I put a wholebunch of dressing on it, am I
(20:37):
really eating cleaner?
Speaker 4 (20:38):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
And so you probably in your mind felt like okay.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
You know it's going to be okay.
I'll try it one time.
I, you know, I.
You know it's gonna be okay.
I'll try it one time.
I you know, I, you know.
I hear people say that I'll tryit one.
I've tried it one time.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
Thought it was gonna be just a one-time thing and
they were automatically well,and I bring it into this, uh,
next portion, because I was abartender and so, um, when I
took a hydrocodone, which isjust a pill that you get from a
doctor, that might do somesurgery or maybe had a wisdom
(21:11):
tooth taken out.
You know something, and my brain, my addict brain, correlated
with me taking that to make itmore money as a bartender.
It was more personable, I wasJohnny on the spot, you know
people like me, okay, um, and soI deserve to make more money,
right?
Speaker 3 (21:31):
right, so why not take another pill every time I
worked?
So was you at home then stillat home?
Speaker 4 (21:38):
I or had you already moved out.
So my first dabble intohydrocodone was still at home,
still in in high school.
Okay.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
You know, there's a story I tell in a book about the
ripple effect and, and you know, casting that first stone and
you don't really know, it couldbe a ripple of generosity or it
could be a ripple of, you know,detriment.
And I've casted both.
You know, uh, one you wish theripples would stop immediately
and the other one you'recheering on the sideline that
they keep on going.
But essentially, uh, I wasstill in high school when I,
(22:18):
when I first dabbled into it.
But when it took a turn for theworse, it was where I was
consistently taking them everyday off the streets, and that
was when I was already kickedout.
I was, you know, over 18 yearsold now and that's when it
really, from 18 to about 22years of age were probably the
worst.
I think I just counted it upthe other day I had, by the time
(22:44):
, november of 1999, which Iwould have been 18, six, seven
months by then.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Okay, Eight months maybe Okay.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
Was arrested four different times.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
Yeah, and they did stop there.
I mean, I was arrested multipletimes after that too.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
So let's go back to your dad.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
When all this was going on?
Did he know?
Speaker 4 (23:06):
The first time I was ever arrested.
He knew, but the other ones Idon't know if he knew but what?
Speaker 3 (23:12):
what was his reaction to it?
Did he just?
Did he bail you out?
Speaker 4 (23:15):
he actually did.
He actually came and picked meup.
Yeah, I didn't know it's who tocall.
I was uh, but it was.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
I was under age, I was 17 17 I was 17 and so the
man that introduced you to anaddiction yeah, okay, showed you
his addiction was picking youup from jail called.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
I think they called him is.
I didn't call okay, yes, oh, 17, they probably did yeah, um,
but no, then the other ones, um,I just called a bail bondsman.
You know, nobody had to know,except for the bail bondsman,
and she was great.
She'd always sit out there andsay what did they accuse you of
now, john?
I mean, she was always in mycorner.
So you had a relationship withthe bondsman, can you believe
(23:59):
they said I was doing this,which clearly I was guilty?
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Yes, but she, but again, you had somebody, a
bondsman, tell, basically tellyou, it's okay, you know, I'm
gonna come get you.
You know that type thing, eventhough they were getting paid,
you know that type thing.
Speaker 4 (24:16):
But as ace bonding, by the way, if you ever need to
get bonded.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
I don't even know if she's still doing it or yeah,
that was 20 something years ago,but you think about that, that
the bondsman was telling you hey, john, what John, what they do
to you this time.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
So, as I didn't have the money to pay her, she would
just say come by my house, shelet me.
I knew where she lived and Iwould just go give her money as
a bartender.
So as I made money, I paid mydebts off to her.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Really, oh wow.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
She was a great woman .
Speaker 3 (24:43):
So by that time he was 18.
Yes 18 years old you.
You got popped on the handseveral times, you know four
times arrested.
So where did you go from there?
Speaker 4 (24:55):
you know, just irresponsible, all the things,
and didn't even see my life asspiraling.
You know, I just thought it wasnormal.
The group of friends I washanging out with also went to
(25:19):
jail, so like, it just seemedlike this is just normal and
then, once I was introduced toOxycontin, you know, clear into
I was probably 20, 21 years old,Addicted to that oh my gosh, so
many people got addicted toOxycontin Crazy.
And you know again.
(25:39):
I remember the first time I wasintroduced to it.
I remember where I was at.
I remember it was a 40milligram Oxycontin, which is a
yellow pill.
I remember watching this guy.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
That sounds like a lot.
Is that a lot?
Sounds like it?
Speaker 4 (25:54):
Yeah, if you were to compare it to this surgery, this
wisdom teeth that we just, youknow, talked about.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
Those are typically five milligrams of hydrocodone.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Uh-huh.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
And um, but you just said 40.
I'm sorry, um, um, uh,oxycodone, okay and um, and so
40 is what you're taking all atone time, and essentially it's
about eight of those.
I mean, you think about it,five milligrams times eight,
that's 40.
So you would have to take eightof those pills at one time To
equal up to that one To equal upto that one.
(26:30):
And really, pain clinics.
Now that I didn't know thisthen, I know this now, but
essentially both can beprescribed to a patient.
So if you are in immense amountof pain and you went to a pain
clinic, they can prescribe youboth of these drugs.
And essentially the oxycontinis meant for a time-released,
(26:52):
long-term, long-acting um pain,uh, you know, um did you start
using it?
Speaker 3 (26:58):
was you getting those off the street?
Yes, absolutely so none of thatwas from a doctor anything like
that one point time.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Now, I'm sure it originally came from somebody's
doctor, just not my own, youknow.
So none of that was from adoctor, anything like that.
No, not at one point in time.
Oh my goodness.
No, I'm sure it originally camefrom somebody's doctor, just
not my own, you know.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
So you did IV.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
Yeah, that was a little bit later Beginning, just
if the viewers don't know.
You take the coating off thispill.
Okay, to take this time.
Release portion off of it andthen you crush it up and you're
going to snort it up your noseand that's where you're going to
get it all at one time, versusyou just taking it, swallowing
(27:36):
it, and it's supposed to actabout 12 hours.
If the same patient that haschronic pain is taking Oxycontin
morning and evening or eventhree times a day, if there's at
any given time someintermittent pain to where they
just are overwhelmed with it,they go to their medicine
cabinet and they can pull outthe same pills that we get from
(27:58):
our dentist and take for a shorttime, just an extra little pain
relief at that moment.
So, patients can be prescribedboth.
That's a lot.
It's a lot, that's a lot.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Especially, you're at a young age.
You're hanging out in thestreets, you're hanging with
your friends.
You know you've got a father athome spiraling out of control.
At that time, was your mom anddad still together?
Speaker 4 (28:25):
Yes, them spiraling out of control.
At that time, was your mom anddad still together?
Yes, he was.
No, he finally got sober andthey were still together.
My brother was living with me,my sister was living on her own,
ok, and but eventually my momdid leave my father through all
this and he would eventuallycome back and apologize to me,
(28:48):
knocked on my door one day anddidn't know who was at the door,
and I opened it up and it washim.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
Was you receptive of it?
Speaker 4 (28:57):
Well, the apology at that point was for him kicking
me out and basically cutting meoff, you know, and that.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Did he know you were on drugs then?
Speaker 4 (29:10):
He knew I was on drugs.
I don't think he knew howsevere my addiction was.
I don't think he knew that Iwas addicted.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Did he realize that part of what he showed you?
Speaker 4 (29:20):
No, absolutely not.
Did he showed you?
No, absolutely not.
Did he take any?
Speaker 3 (29:22):
No, did he Never took any accountability for that.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
No.
And looking back, I was like,look, you knew that I was going
down this path and that neverbut one time that you stop and,
as a father, say, hey, son, thisis what I did and this is how I
came over my addiction.
And I can see the same thing inyou that I, that I had.
No, not one another, never hejust came to tell you that I'm
(29:47):
sorry for kicking you out yeah,and the only reason he came to
apologize, because my mom lefthim and he was all by himself
and he probably thought thatwould help him with your mom
maybe maybe, or just you know,nobody else would, uh, you know,
be around him and he was justtrying to.
You know, I remember, after Iwent to therapy, which anybody
that's listening, I would alwaysrecommend go talk to somebody
(30:10):
um no matter what, even ifyou're the healthiest mindset
you've ever been in your entirelife, if you go actually talk to
somebody, you'll I believe intherapy.
Yeah, you'll understand, um,understand why you think the way
you do.
You know these individuals,these, these counselors that are
sitting across from us.
They've seen thousands ofpatients with the same stories
and they can easily put you in acategory and say, hey, I've
(30:32):
seen 900 other patients that hadyour same story and here's what
they do.
And you're like, oh, I do that.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
And say, oh, okay, oh okay I think a lot of people
look at therapy and viewers.
I really want you to understandthis.
Um, therapy is not just for adrug addict yeah therapy is not
just for um someone.
Therapy helps in so many ways.
I went through a divorce.
I went to therapy and I went totherapy because, to be honest,
(31:05):
I didn't want anybody else'sopinion.
I was hurting going through adivorce.
I didn't know how to expresswhat I was going through, and so
I felt like if I went totherapy and talked to somebody
that didn't, that's not myfamily, not my friends, any of
that.
There would not be judgment ona on a way of that person.
(31:31):
If they were going to judge me,it would be judging me to help
me to get past it, not what youreally subscribe to.
You see what I'm saying.
And so, and then, even withwhen me and David had
miscarriages, my doctorliterally said I want you to go
to therapy.
You know you've had a lot ofmiscarriages.
You just lost your father andyou're not grieving.
(31:53):
You went back to work.
You didn't grieve.
There's no way you grievedbecause you just went right back
to work the week after all thathappened to you.
And so I want the viewers tounderstand that therapy is not
just for a drug addict and butit's a great if you are, that
you really need help and youfeel like that you're at that
(32:15):
breaking point and you don'thave to be at the breaking point
, it just to the point that youneed help.
There is so much help out there.
Please talk about.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
I mean, even for my specific scenario, I didn't go
to therapy until I was almost 40, if not 40 years old and I feel
like I healed on my own, whichI wouldn't recommend.
I'm not trying to say that, butjust that through guided
meditation, a lot of running and, you know, trying to decipher
(32:50):
things in my own head, I wasable to come through all this
and plus, once you get over adrug addiction that's both
mentally and physically bindingto you and you kind of overcome
that, you understand your mindin a different way and it's hard
for me to explain that tosomebody that's not done it, but
it's sort of like you tap intoa part of your brain that you
(33:14):
didn't know you had control over.
And then once you kind of, it'skind of of um, it's kind of
like that courage and confidence, Like you have to have the
courage to do something and theconfidence follows later.
It's like once you've done it,then you have the confidence
like, well, I already did this,I could probably do this.
And so, um, when I went totherapy, I was happy, I was, uh,
(33:36):
probably thriving, uh, justbuilt my house, I had a
beautiful home.
You know, things were better,things were better, and but when
I went and I started talking toher, I was like, you know,
here's what I do, this is what Ido.
And she just showed me aroadmap and she's the one
encouraged me to go talk to mydad about my childhood.
(33:58):
And here's the one whoencouraged me to go talk to my
dad about my childhood.
And here's the crazy thing whenI went to I don't say this in
the book, but because- he wasgetting exclusive he's.
He eventually had developedAlzheimer's, you know, and he
got dementia and I had to puthim in a, in a assisted living.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
So you had to take care of somebody that brought so
much hurt.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
Yeah, there was nobody here.
So my brother lives in SouthFlorida.
My sister's still wayward ondrugs and in a jail to this day.
Oh, wow.
And then his first daughterlives in Florida as well and
just wasn't a part of his life.
I mean not that she didn't wantto see him and didn't
communicate to him.
I mean she still had thatyearning to know who her father
was.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
She just probably wasn't vested.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
Yeah, as much as a child normally would.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
Because she wasn't in the home and she didn't have
that relationship.
Speaker 4 (34:49):
No.
And then of course, my momremarried and of course she
divorced him 18, 20 years ago.
So I was all he had, and beforehe was to the point where he
because he was still living onhis own at this time she's like
you need to, you know, you needto have a conversation with him.
I think you're going to regretnot and she's saying it from a
point of hey, I have seen thisin my practice and you have an
(35:13):
opportunity not to regret it.
You know, not that you will orwon't.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
And let's stop there for a second second.
I've literally told friends andfamily that same thing.
If you cannot truly say, ifsomething happens to this person
and I did not go and air it out, you know I what I'm saying
(35:38):
Just you know, even if you'resaying you're the worst person
there is, but not having thatvoice and not being able to say
la, la, la, la, la, you know, towhoever it is, some people will
have that regret and I've toldpeople, even if you get the
regret and you didn't get thatmoment, okay, you need therapy
(36:00):
to get through that too, andit's okay.
I want people to understand.
This is that, say you did notget that moment, say you do have
regret, okay, you are the child, okay, and sometimes you're
just not there.
You just you can't, you don'thave the strength to do that.
(36:21):
And it was great that aprofessional told you hey, john,
you still have time, correct,you still.
And you made the decision to go.
Yeah, okay after work yeah, andsome people don't okay, I always
didn't okay but yeah, it soundslike you probably would have
regretted it if you didn't.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
Well, yeah, I think the answer that I was given when
I asked them said all I needed.
It did give me closure, butprobably not the closure that
you think.
But it was one day after work.
His house was on the way to myhouse work, he, his, his house
(37:03):
was, uh, on the way to my house,okay, so you know, of course, I
simmered on this idea oftalking to him about it for a
while and uh, probably rehearsewhat you're going to say, you
know how do you even bring it up.
And so one day with just like Ido a lot of things, I was just
like, oh, today's the day, I'mjust going going to go.
I didn't think about it.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
So was you still on drugs then?
Speaker 4 (37:20):
No, this is fast forward.
I'm 47 years old.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Okay, you're 47 years old, you've already went
through that and we're going togo back to a thing, but I want
to finish this out.
So you went to him and what?
Speaker 4 (37:30):
Yeah, I'm vice president of a multimillion
dollar company this time.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
And I'm like.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
I decided to go by his place and I hey, dad, you
home?
Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna have himstop by, okay, I mean I didn't
even tell him why, so I pull in.
Um, you know he's sitting inthe same old chair.
He got you know at this timehe's been divorced from my mom,
uh, 18 ish years, probably,maybe 16 ish years.
Uh, he did remarry at one pointtime.
(37:56):
That marriage only lasted likefour lasted like four months,
I'm sorry and the woman wantedto get an old because he was
just that bad of a person Likeshe didn't know until she lived
with him.
It's crazy.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
So was he still an alcoholic.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
No, just a mean dude Just says things that you
wouldn't want to say to a lovedone, exactly, and she wasn't
going to put up with it.
She's like I'm going to get outas well I can.
So I sit down at his apartmentand I, you know, just shoot him
straight.
I'm like Dad, I kind of want toknow why did you do all these
(38:33):
things and laid it out on thetable?
And he just looked at me, maybesilent for like two or three
seconds.
He's like I don't remember anyof that.
Uh, can you hand me that remotecontrol right there?
Oh, I said, I sure can dad, Ihand that remote control.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
I said I got to go and I left and that was it, and
it's exactly you told himeverything and he literally said
I don't remember none of that,didn't try to recognize it,
anything but that's.
And viewers I'm glad you'resharing this.
Okay, because I talk about.
(39:06):
You can say do whatever youwant, but the one thing you
cannot control is how someoneelse is going to react.
Yeah, and if you wait for thatreaction, you could be wasting
time, life and havingexperiences that are more
pleasing to your soul happiness,that type thing because it
(39:30):
sound like your dad.
He didn't want to takeownership to anything.
So it's easier to say, oh well,I don, well, I don't remember.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
I don't remember.
Yeah, that type of thing.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
So what was?
Let's go back a little bitabout your drug use.
What was the beginning of thechange?
What got you to realize I'vegot a problem and I got to
address this?
Speaker 4 (39:53):
Yeah, it happened a lot, actually, actually, and
it's hard to probably put inwords, but you know the first
few times when you actuallydon't have this drug.
And so what that would looklike is if I bought you know
this is before I got onOxycontin If I bought, or even
(40:16):
when I was on OxyContin, let'ssay I bought 20 pills and I had
enough to go to work take thepill.
There was no problem.
I mean, that's not like youwould know, I was on this drug,
except for my pupils beingextremely pinpoint, but other
than that there's no telltalesign.
I mean, I'm not drunk.
I'm not high.
I'm not, you know, goofy or red, you know red-eyed from being,
(40:39):
so nobody would know nobody knew, okay, and um, and so you can
just manage this lifestyle foras long as you want until you
either run out of money or yourun out of the drug.
And when you don't have moneyto buy the drug, or your dealer
or somebody doesn't have any,that's when you start going
through withdrawals and that'swhen you first get a taste of
(40:59):
like oh crap, I'm like, I don'tfeel good.
And like am I addicted to thesethings?
And so then you start needing,seeing where you need it every
day, just to function.
And if you don't have money,there's things you can steal,
you know.
I remember, uh, things you cansteal.
You know, Um, I remember, uh, Imean, I stole too many things,
(41:32):
broke bad checks up to probably$14,000 worth of bad checks.
Um, you know, uh, did a lot, alot of bad things just to feed
this habit, things I would neverdo as a normal individual.
And then, um, as soon as yougot a supply back or as soon as
you got more money, you feltlike it just went on the back
burner Like I'm good now, aslong as this I could ride this
train, I'm fine.
Until it, you know, reared itshead again and like you ran out
(41:52):
of money or you ran out of thedrug, and then that's when it
became a problem.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
And was there a certain thing that happened?
Finally address it.
Speaker 4 (42:05):
I tried to address it , uh, numerous times, and, and,
and what would happen is thisaddict brain and this voice of
mine, of all of ours, justwhispered in my head see you
quit.
You didn't.
You don't have a problem, itwasn't that hard.
Look, you've not had one pillin a week.
Two weeks a month.
(42:25):
You're not addicted, you've gotthis, you're in control, you've
got this.
And so you'd go back and say,yeah, I'd like to have one.
It's been a while.
I got some money and you snortanother one.
And the next thing you knowyou're right back in the cycle.
And then when I was eventuallyintroduced to IV drug use,
(42:45):
that's when things changed, youknow, and I was at the time
shooting 80s, you know.
So that's we go back to that.
You know, that pill that wetalked about from the doctor,
that's 16 of those bad boys atone time.
And I would shoot five or sixtimes a day.
Speaker 3 (43:06):
Was there a woman in your life?
Speaker 4 (43:08):
Yeah, there was the girl that I eventually married
and had a daughter.
With that I dated off and onand she didn't do any of this
stuff Now.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
she partied and loved a good time, you know whether
it was drinking or smoking, butshe wasn't doing that.
Did she know you were doing it?
Speaker 4 (43:27):
She did, and then I told her I quit.
And then I hid it from her OnceI told her I quit.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
So you went through the stage of hiding it.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
Oh, 100% yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
Oh, wow, so what.
Speaker 4 (43:38):
And then when you get away with it, you know you can
hide it.
You're just like, okay, youknow.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
So did you go to rehab?
Speaker 4 (43:47):
Did go to rehab, did you?
That's where the methadone camein.
Yeah, that's a um same guy thatactually introduced me to
shooting oxycontins eventuallywised up and he enrolled himself
into the methadone clinic andback in the late 90s, early
2000s, um the the same personyeah, okay, keep going.
Yeah, it's crazy.
Um he, uh, but yeah.
So which is medical assistedtreatment is what we call it,
(44:10):
and that's methadone, suboxone,vivitrol.
These are all the ones that youcan give to a patient to help
them off specifically opioids,which is heroin, fentanyl,
oxycontins, hydro, yeah,hydrocodone, all these pills and
so, um, essentially, back then,um, you know, we didn't have
(44:33):
suboxone, it was just methadone,and I didn't know this at the
time I wrote the book.
I thought it was actually thatwe didn't have, uh, um, vivitrol
either, but they did, and therewas a um, it's a shot now, but
back then it was was the thingthat would cut your skin open
and put like this foamunderneath your skin.
So it's, it slowly absorbs overlike a month period of time.
(44:53):
Crazy.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
OK, yeah, I didn't even know that existed.
Speaker 4 (45:00):
But anyways, this guy Matt.
He ended up going to themethadone clinic and he asked me
do I want to go with him?
And I was like no man, I can dothis on my own, like I don't
need to trade one for another.
That drug's even harder.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
Do you think he felt like, because he introduced you
to, that he wanted to help youget off of it, because that's
what he introduced?
Speaker 4 (45:19):
you to.
It could be, but it wasprobably more, that we were just
around each other all the time.
It would just be like me, andyou being best friends.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (45:29):
And instead of us going to a football game
together, we're going to go gethigh together.
I mean like, but you know,that's sort of, and then you
only want to be around thepeople that want to get high.
I'm not going to go hang outwith somebody that wants to go
to a football game, and do youknow activities other than
getting high, because gettinghigh, because it's I mean, I
(45:50):
don't want to do any of thatthis morning, right and so, um,
and methadone is a lot strongerand a lot harder to to come off
of than it is oxy so uh, I waslike I've heard that.
Speaker 3 (45:56):
Yeah, I've heard that .
Speaker 4 (45:57):
But I was like really , and so he goes, uh, don't see
him for a couple weeks actuallya few weeks, maybe a months and
he, he comes back and just goodskin, no bags underneath his
eyes, put on weight, lookinggood, was happy, was happy.
And comes into my apartment andhe says you got one for
(46:20):
tomorrow.
And of course I'm still strungout at this time, at this point
in my life, I have rotten teeth,malnourished, you know, iv drug
user track marks in my arm.
I ain't got one for tomorrow.
He said well, you didn't knowthis, but my first day down
there I put your name on thewaiting list and tomorrow's your
day.
And that changed my life.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
Yeah, I ended up calling my mom.
Speaker 4 (46:42):
Oh my goodness, I didn't have right not to answer
that phone.
You know I've lied to herthousands of times, so you went
in.
And she answered the phone whenI called and she gave me the
money and I went.
Speaker 3 (46:52):
Oh, wow.
So you went into rehab and wentthrough the program and you
came out.
Did you have a relapse oranything like that?
Speaker 4 (47:05):
Not after that, no, not after that.
Wow, did you have a relapse oranything like that?
Not after that, no, not afterthat.
Um, that, um now, uh, for the,for the viewers, the methadone
clinic, um, unless it's changed.
I'm not trying to throw shade,I am a proponent for MAT and I
think it helped me and I thinkit will help everybody, and
anybody that's in that situationshould get on it.
But, but there is no end insight.
(47:25):
If you want to be a patient atthe methadone clinic for 20
years, they'll let you you know,really yeah.
So that's why.
But you know, you're stillcontributing to society, you're
no longer stealing things and,as the addict, they still don't
want to deal with the demonsinside their head.
And you know, essentially,about a year later is when I
(47:49):
detoxed off it.
You know I was on 90 milligramsat the time.
They took me off 10 milligramsa week.
So nine weeks later I wentthrough the withdrawals and you
know that's when the real battlebegan.
But that was my rock bottom andin the chapter 19 of the book I
call it no one's coming, noone's coming.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
No one's coming.
Speaker 4 (48:09):
No one's coming.
Speaker 3 (48:10):
You're all by yourself.
Speaker 4 (48:11):
All by yourself.
I put myself there and I was.
The only person to get me outwas me.
And little by little I fixed myrecord, I fixed my teeth, I
enrolled myself back in school.
That was what I was about to askyou about EMT first and then
became in the emergency yeah, atthe time it was really great
timing because, um, once Ienrolled myself back in college
(48:35):
and I was like, okay, I'm gonnabe a fireman, you know, uh, the,
the first thing I needed to dois become an EMT, because
everybody that's like a, youknow, not a, but it's something
easily quote, unquote, easilyachievable, but it's going to
make you look a little bitbetter on the resume.
So I enrolled myself at WalterState and started the process
(48:57):
and when I graduated, became anactual EMT.
That very month Wow, thatactual very month the Knoxville
fire department was hiring 40new firefighters, which is
unheard of right.
Speaker 3 (49:10):
Yes, I was about to say that very.
I'm friends with a lot offiremen.
Speaker 4 (49:14):
It's just such a good job, nobody leaves it, you know
unless somebody dies or theyretire.
I was about to say they're,they're not an opening.
That's true, unless they'regoing to build a new station in
an area and say, hey, we need,you know, 30 new firemen.
But essentially Oak Ridgeopened up a new fire department
and they needed to staff it.
In this I mean, which took, youknow, 60, 80, 90.
(49:35):
I don't know how many people,but they took it from the
surrounding areas.
And Knoxville had 40firefighters leave and the
Gatlinburg Fire Department hadfive leave.
Speaker 3 (49:42):
Is that what helped you to gain your identity?
Now I'm off of drugs?
Is that what helped you to gainyour identity Now I'm off of
drugs, now I've, you know,worked on my health and going
down a healthy way?
Is that what?
Putting your time into service?
Yeah, is that, is that OK?
Speaker 4 (50:00):
Yeah, that's what I'm taking from that.
Yeah, my passion and myfulfillment, and still is to
this day, is helping others, youknow, and I think it stems from
being wanted.
You know, you grew up in ahousehold that you don't feel
loved or wanted and then thesepeople are, you know, calling
(50:20):
911 for you to come help themand they want you there and you
are helping them.
I mean, it comes with a feelingthat's, you know.
You know I never experiencedbefore and I was good at it, you
know.
I went to school um, it was thefirst time I was making A's on
tests and and I graduated top ofmy class, got all kinds of
accolades and awards from um,the college, um, and again, once
(50:42):
I graduated, I applied at bothKnoxville and Gatlinburg Fire
Department because I didn't carewho was going to hire me, but I
did the physical agility testfor both of them.
I did the exam for both of them.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
And the.
Speaker 4 (50:53):
Gatlinburg Fire Department was just the one that
called me back first.
Speaker 3 (50:56):
So for everything you went through, it really
prepared you for something.
We got to stop right therebecause you know what viewers
we're going to do a part two,know what viewers we're going to
do a part two.
I'm going to bring him backnext Friday because this story
has not been told and we justneed to keep it going.
Let's go Next Friday.
John Matthews.
Speaker 1 (51:19):
Thanks for listening to Talkin' Tennessee with Yvonca
.
Watch out for our weeklyepisodes from the first family
of real estate and check us outon the web,
wwwyavancasalesrealestatecom.
See our videos on Yvonca'sYouTube channel or find us on
Facebook under.
Yvonca Landis and Twitter atYvonca Landis.
(51:41):
And don't forget to tell afriend about us.
Until next time.
Yvonca signing off.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.