July 9, 2025 • 29 mins
Technological change affects all aspects of our lives and our instructional practices must evolve to prepare students for their futures. In this episode, Loy Gross joins us to discuss strategies that she uses to prepare students for an industry that is evolving with digital tools. Loy is an online learning specialist and an adjunct technology instructor at SUNY Genesee Community College.
A transcript of this episode and show notes may be found at http://teaforteaching.com.
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(00:00):
Technological change affects all aspects
of our lives and our instructional
practices must evolve to prepare
students for their futures. In this
episode, we explore strategies used in
one program to prepare students for an
industry that is evolving with digital
tools.
[Music]
(00:23):
Thanks for joining us for T for
Teaching, an informal discussion of
innovative and effective practices in
teaching and learning. This podcast
series is hosted by John Kaine, an
economist, and Rebecca Musher, a graphic
designer, and features guests doing
important research and advocacy work to
make higher education more inclusive and
(00:43):
supportive of all learners.
[Music]
[Applause]
[Music]
Our guest today is Ly Gross. Ly is an
online learning specialist and an
adjunct technology instructor at Sunni
Jennese Community College. Welcome Ly.
Hey, thank you. Today's TE's are Ly. Are
(01:07):
you drinking tea today? See, the thing
is is I know what the honest answer is.
You told me. You outed yourself. I did.
I meant to make a cup of tea and I
didn't. I am drinking a mix of
peppermint, spearmint, and teragon tea.
Always a good choice. Sean, today I have
a decaffeinated Irish breakfast tea,
(01:29):
which just seems like an oxymoron. I
don't know.
It could have been the really strong
builder's tea that's decaffeinated,
which would really be even more of an
oxymoron. Yeah. We've invited you here
today to discuss your course on fashion
industry technologies in which students
work with AI image generation, 3D
(01:49):
virtual design and modeling, magic
mirrors, and artificial and extended
reality technology. Can you tell us a
little bit about this course and what
role this course plays in the Genese
Community College fashion curriculum?
So, the course is actually called
fashion industry technologies. It's an
overview course and whereas many of the
(02:11):
classes in the curriculum are focused on
hands-on making something. Right now,
this class is designed to be a little
bit more forward-looking. It's not the
capstone class, but it does set the
students up for their capstone, which is
the spring fashion show where they
present their final portfolio. And this
course really stands out from the rest
(02:32):
of the program with the tech that we
introduce the students to.
So we do AI generated images, we do 3D
garment modeling all on the computer, we
do digitized patterning, we do extended
reality, we do things that right now
they're being used by like the really
(02:52):
really big fashion houses. We're talking
Gucci, Louis Vuitton. We're doing the
kind of work that is being pioneered by
them right now. and they use that
technology to streamline the whole
design process and accelerate to market.
And so my philosophy with the course is
that I'm not just teaching students or
(03:13):
preparing students for a job in a year
or two years. They may go on to another
college. I need to prepare them for a
job that's going to exist four to five
years out. And that's where the focus of
this class is. We're giving them early
exposure to very very high-tech, very
very cutting edge sort of tools that are
really shaping the future of fashion.
(03:33):
And honestly, I tell my students every
day, it does not matter to me if you
learn to press the correct button or you
learn the names of all the buttons. What
matters to me is that you learned how to
think creatively in that new tool. And
you learned how to problem solve either
with or without the AI. And you learned
how to communicate your ideas in new
(03:55):
ways and really think about fashion as
an experience and not as something that
you cut and sew together. Can you talk a
little bit about what students are
actually doing? You've talked a little
bit about what the technology is, but
what are some of the actual things that
they're doing in the class? So, the way
that I designed the class, and I took
this class over from another instructor,
and it was kind of funny because she
(04:17):
said, "Well, we do this and this and
this and this." And then at the end of
the class, you have like these three
weeks where you can pick a topic that
you want that's on the edge of fashion
and do what you want. And I right away I
thought, "Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.
I'm going to let the students pick
something and they're all going to pick
something different and they're going to
share it and we're going to have this
wonderful peer experience that's going
to be much richer than anything that I
(04:39):
could choose. So, we have two tracks
that run sort of side by side throughout
the entire semester. On the one hand,
they're designing a single outfit that
they'll eventually have in the spring
fashion show. So, they're using
Photoshop and they're using Illustrator
and they're using the 3D modeling
software and other digital tools and
they're realizing that vision. They're
(04:59):
working in the digital realm until they
realize their vision and then we project
it onto the table, cut it out in the
fabric, make it, which is wonderful. So
that's like one whole semester long
project divided into a series of modules
of different parts. But at the same time
I have them doing a semesterl long
technology project and that can be
(05:21):
anything they want to do. I ask them to
develop a proposal at the beginning of
the class and I approve it and then they
go throughout the class and at the end
of the class they present whatever their
end result is. I have had students who
have programmed AI to make sewing
patterns. I've had students who've done
custom textile prints and had them
(05:43):
printed. I've had students who've made
prototypes. I've had prototype
motorcycle helmets. Had prototype pants
for wheelchair users. All kinds of
really cool stuff. One student did an
entire video series that was influencer
marketing. It's like this is awesome
stuff. So, they do that sort of at the
same time. So there's really two tracks
(06:04):
going on in the class and they're going
on simultaneously
and that's just how we run it. Could you
elaborate on those two tracks? What
components are a students choosing and
what components are common to all the
students? Well, I'm a glutton for
punishment. The common track where
they're all designing an outfit, they
(06:24):
are all designing an outfit and they're
all at the same place at the same time
on the process of designing that outfit,
but all of those fits will be different.
So, one of them is doing a beach outfit
and another one is doing a ball gown
made of denim. So, they're all over the
map, but they're working side by side
using the same tools and they're sort of
at the same development process or
(06:46):
design process. They're at the same
place. Now, the second track, which is
the individual project, they're all over
the map. Once they have submitted a
proposal and I have approved it, I meet
with the students once a week to say,
"How are you doing on your project?" We
basically have scrum sessions. What did
you do last time? What are you going to
do next time? What's standing in your
(07:08):
way? How can I help you get over
whatever your current obstacle is? But I
am talking to one student about the
Unreal gaming engine. And then I
literally turn around, next student,
okay, we're talking about flashing
lights that are going to go on your
helmet. So, that one's all over the
place, but I don't think that students
(07:28):
get as much out of the class when it's a
set assignment. I prefer that the
students pick their assignments. So, in
both cases, they pick what they want to
do. What role does AI play in the class?
I know this is one of the technologies
you noted that you're experimenting with
in this class. Is that something that's
built into the track that everyone's
doing or is that just something that
(07:49):
some folks are choosing to do? It's a
little bit of both. It shows up in a
couple of different ways. So, we do an
AI focused unit when we hit Photoshop
because we talk about AI image
generation and we talk about it from a
practical standpoint of what can you do,
what can't you do, what are the limits
of it right now and we talk about it
(08:10):
from an ethical standpoint. Is it really
appropriate for us to be developing,
let's say, copies of things? how much of
the AI that you're using is actually
scraped from somebody else's work and
how much of that are you comfortable
working with. So, we have those kinds of
discussions and I make sure that
everybody has those kinds of
(08:31):
discussions. A deeper use of AI usually
turns up in the research projects and it
could be students can use AI to generate
mood boards. They can generate new
prints. They can generate something that
sparks their own creativity or they can
use it maybe to do research. So they
could identify trends or do some
(08:53):
analysis and use it in that way. I did
have one student that tried to program
an AI to develop technical patterns and
at the end of the day he made it work
and I was just like yay. I didn't think
you were going to be able to do that. I
honestly did not think the project would
work. And I was explaining to the
(09:14):
student, if you come to me and you have
a paper that says, "Here are five ways I
tried it and none of them worked for
these reasons, that's an A. I'm going to
give you a solid grade on that." And he
made it work anyway. He insisted he was
going to make it work.
You also mentioned that students are
using augmented reality and extended
reality. Do you have headsets for all
(09:37):
the students or are there a number of
headsets that are available that
students in the class can use while
they're working on these projects? So,
we don't. We got a grant this year. It's
a President's Innovation Grant that
happens every year at GCC and I along
with our media technologies department,
we wrote up a grant for four VR headsets
(09:59):
and five magic mirrors. And the thing
about working on those is that when
you're developing the environment,
you're not wearing the equipment. So
you're sitting on the computer. We have
12 very, very expensive, very, very
heavy gaming laptops that we use to do
our 3D modeling. And those laptops are
the same ones that we use to develop the
(10:21):
digital environments. So there's two
things that we do with those. We do the
magic mirror concept that takes the
outfit design that the students have
made and it puts it on a human being.
And then we have the extended reality or
the virtual reality where we can do a
full VR showroom that you can walk
around in and see the models and you can
(10:41):
reach out and touch the fabrics. You
don't get a tactile sense, but if you'd
like to know, is this skirt full? You
can pick it up and spread it out to see
how it looks. How are students
responding to using these different
technologies in your class? So, as with
all things like each according to their
own idea of how they like it or don't,
(11:04):
some of the students they jump in and
they just absolutely, oh, I'm so
excited. Technology, give me give me
give me. And some students are very
frustrated because I'm essentially
teaching them how to design in computer
to do a thing that they know how to do
in real life on a mannequin. So, they've
already learned how to drape a new
(11:25):
garment on a mannequin and create
something new and they're getting pretty
good at it. And then they have to go
back and relearn it on the computer. And
of course, you're starting over again.
And so, it's very, very slow. It's like
learning a new language. like I know how
to say this, but how do I say this? And
so some of them get very frustrating.
But one thing that's really fun is a
(11:47):
student will come in and right at the
beginning of the class, you can always
tell when it's going to happen cuz they
come in and they crack open the laptop
and they're all excited and they're
like, "Hey, hey, hey, hey, you got to
see what I made last night." And just it
lights up the whole room and all the
frustrations are just out the window and
let's get to working on our projects
today. Sounds like that would definitely
lend to some momentum in class for sure.
(12:10):
Can you talk a little bit about how some
of these technologies are being used in
other contexts on campus? Are students
having opportunities to use extended
reality in other spaces beyond the
fashion program or some of the other
tools that you're talking about? So, I
can talk a little bit about that. I
personally would love to bring these
tools into a whole bunch of courses, but
(12:32):
we're a two-year college and time is
tight and there is what you can do is
what you can do. So, I'm kind of looking
at ways that we can layer it in. So, for
example, I mentioned that the students
have already learned how to drape on a
mannequin. One of the things that I'm
talking to my department chair about is
about making my class and that draping
(12:52):
class co-requisites so that the students
are learning to drape in two modes at
the same time and one set of knowledge
should be able to feed on the other and
that should improve our frustration
level with it. The other thing I'm
talking about kind of talking to the
dean is about the potential for teaching
this class not just to fashion students
(13:14):
but to digital arts students and to CIS
students. Because when you're creating a
brand new avatar and then you're
creating garments and accessories on the
avatar, the end output of my class, it
could be a fashion design. That's what
we're doing right now. But the output at
the end of my class could just as easily
be a fully rendered digital avatar. And
(13:35):
both of those programs could benefit
from that technology. So we're having
those kinds of discussions. We haven't
moved anywhere yet, but I think that's
where we're going. You mentioned that
students are doing the types of things
that higherend designers are doing.
Could you talk a little bit about some
of the applications that are being used
in industry and how that might perhaps
(13:56):
motivate students a little bit to see
that they're doing something that is
state-of-the-art work? So when you're
talking technology, language sometimes
gets fluid and becomes difficult because
we don't have words for the things that
exist. You know, it's like let's go back
to the 1800s and ask about a
refrigerator. There is no such thing.
But what we are doing is the students
(14:18):
design the fashion. And when they're
designing in real life, they're
designing, they're cutting, they're
sewing, they're attaching, they're
fitting, and they're coordinating and
styling on a real life person. And it's
a sort of a I don't want to call it a
fixed experience because it can be
radically different every time, but it
(14:38):
has a very fixed sort of sequencing. And
when you talk about some of this virtual
technology, a lot of that goes right out
the window. So, we can fit clothing onto
our bodies before it's ever been made.
So, I can make a nice sherpa jacket,
okay, with the fuzzy sherpa texture, and
(15:00):
I can make accessories and make designs
and patches and what have you on it. And
I can put that on my body in my sizing
and see in a magic mirror what it's
going to look like. And then I can put
it on one of my students with a very
different body type and see what it's
going to look like on her. And it
changes the way that we think about the
fashion experience. Instead of us
(15:22):
producing a solid sort of unchangeable
garment, we start to think about ways
that you can experience fashion both
before it's been made and even after
it's been made. So, some of my students
have been inspired to do things. One of
my students was inspired to create a
lightup design in their fashion that
(15:42):
reacts to the user and the user's
movement or the wearer's movement. And
this is just a way that we're rethinking
how we experience fashion. I know you
mentioned that students are kind of
prepping for a fashion show that follows
this course. It's a prequel.
to the fashion show. Can you talk a
(16:03):
little bit about how that has evolved
over the last couple of semesters or
years as students are integrating more
and more with different technologies?
So, integrating it is actually one of my
big struggles at the moment that the
students as I said they know how to
design a garment on a mannequin and they
don't want to learn a new way of doing
(16:24):
things just before the fashion show. And
so every year we're sort of increasing
the number of requirements or trying to
replace the requirements maybe where
they have to do x number of designs for
the fashion show. Well, now we can maybe
do x minus one and then you have to do
one digital. One of the nice things
about the spring fashion show is that
(16:46):
that's the point where it kind of all
comes together where students have been
working on a digital image and it's in
the computer and they can see it in the
magic mirror and they can see it in the
VR space, but it's not real. You can't
touch it quite yet. And when you project
the pattern on the table and you
actually cut it out and you sew it
(17:07):
together and you put it on a model, now
it's real. Now it's a real thing. I made
this really cool digital thing and here
it is. It's there. That's fun.
I'm sure it's exciting for students to
see the things that they've spent a lot
of time developing in a digital space
and then to see that in a physical
space. I know I have that experience
(17:28):
with design students who make an image
on screen and then they see it in print
or they see it produced, right? When a
student designs a new textile pattern or
they design a dress and we put it in the
digital space and maybe you'll see
different people wearing it in the magic
mirror, but then we see it in person,
that fabric arrives from the vendor or
(17:50):
that design is fully formed and it's put
on a model who's walking in it. It's a
whole full circle moment. I had this
vision in my head. I made it happen on
the screen and now here it is in real
life. So that's the direction that we're
going in and continuously sort of moving
that way. Are there other faculty who
(18:11):
are teaching fashion courses who are
starting to consider using these tools?
So far we have not had a lot of
crossover between the various classes.
There definitely is the potential there
and I think as the technology gets
deeper and deeper into the program and
the students get more used to it we may
see some collaborations happening
particularly in merchandising because
(18:33):
there's a lot of merchandising
opportunity with this sort of technology
but so far we haven't done any of that.
One of the things that could also happen
is if the students get really excited
about this, they may start suggesting
that to other faculty who might perhaps
be inspired to extend their courses a
bit in a new way. I can only hope I'll
go back to my student that I seriously
(18:53):
didn't think that he could get the AI to
do what it did and he got it to do what
it did and he was so excited by it and
he just brings that excitement over and
other instructors will come up to me and
say insert student name is so excited
about the project that he did for you
and told me all about it. Okay, great.
Let's talk about how we can kind of
cross collaborate. Let's talk about how
(19:15):
we can do joint assignments. Let's talk
about how my teaching can feed your
teaching and grow into something because
gives a student a more holistic view of
a process as opposed to I need this
thing for this course and that thing for
that course. I'm all about holistic
learning. Can you tell?
(19:36):
I'm sure by the time the students are
completing their fashion shows and
they've gone through the struggle and
then they see things in reality that
they start to see the value in adding an
electronic or digital practice into
their process because some things can be
speedier. They can make some different
decisions without having to make and
(19:57):
remake physically because those
adjustments can be made. you can see it
in the magic mirror. Try something else.
See in the magic mirror again before
you're actually creating it. Have
students reflected on that experience a
bit and indicated like, "Yeah, I can see
how I was super frustrated in your
class, but now I can see how I might use
(20:17):
this moving forward." I know that in
some of the kinds of technology classes
I've taught, I've definitely had
students who were like super resistant
during the class, but then like three
years later, I get an email from them
saying, "Guess what I'm doing?
This fall, I'll be rolling into my third
year teaching the class. So, I'm still
waiting for those students to come back.
But I will say that I've had some
(20:38):
really, really good conversations with
students about actually selling their
digital designs because beyond creating
the physical element, there's the
element of selling your design in, I
don't know, The Sims or in the
metaverse.
Of course, I'm a nerd. I have a Metverse
account. and my avatar in the Metverse
(20:58):
account has an outfit that I purchased
from the Metverse store. So, I've had
some really interesting conversations
with students about the potential for
designing fashion that is strictly
digital that will never be made. And
that gets to be really interesting
conversations and obviously there's no
other way to do that. No, digital
(21:18):
clothing can do things that real
clothing can't. Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.
So, I do cosplay from time to time. And
when you talk about digital clothing
that does things that real clothing
can't, the engineering that we have to
go into to try and make that video game
character outfit actually come to life
(21:41):
and then make it actually behave the way
that it behaves when it's on the avatar
to make the skirt fling properly, to
make the cape fling properly. You got
this feather thing sticking out your
shoulder. Like it doesn't even have a
name. We're not really sure what it is,
but it's sticking out the character's
shoulder and it goes three feet in the
air. How do we make that without it
(22:03):
wobbling all over the place? And we can
use these new digital tools to try and
design different sorts of structural
elements to the fit so that when we do
make it hopefully it behaves the way
that it should. But yeah, you can make a
(22:24):
whole lot of things in the digital realm
that just don't work in the real world.
So could you tell us a little bit more
about the fall symposium and what
students have done there and how it's
worked? So the fall symposium is
absolutely my favorite part of the
course. It is their final exam in my
course and
(22:45):
what they do is whatever that long tech
project that they decided they were
going to do, they go and they present
it. And so we try and make it as much
like a symposium as possible. We don't
always get people to come, but we invite
high school sewing classes and we invite
the 4 and we invite every student on
campus and all of the faculty to come in
(23:06):
and see what the students are doing. And
we usually get a half a room full, big
lecture hall, half a room full. And the
students will present anything from a
research paper to a fully realized
prototype that people can pick up and
come and talk about. What is really
exciting for me is to see the students
(23:27):
in this culmination of this project
because it's something that is deeply
meaningful for them every single time. I
mentioned a student who did a prototype
pair of pants for wheelchair users. And
that student had been in a car accident
and she came in with a prototype pair of
pants and did a short presentation on
why you should do adaptive fashion, why
(23:48):
the major fashion housesers should be
paying attention to it. And what she had
done for her project was a Tik Tok video
explaining how to take a regular pair of
pants and make it into an adaptive pair.
And she finished really, really quickly.
And the first question that I wanted to
ask her and I asked her, I said, "Now,
how many times did you make that
prototype before the one that you
(24:09):
brought with you today?" And she said,
"I think this is number 16."
But they're so excited and they're so
involved and they go so deeply into it
because they care so much about what
they're presenting. And I try and give
them a nice wide audience. And we have
the before symposium gathering where I
(24:30):
say, "It's okay. I know you're not a
public speaker, but you can do this."
And they go in and they have that really
transformative experience from the fear
of public speaking to, "Hey, I'm going
to tell you about this thing." It's my
favorite part of the whole class. That's
awesome. It's always great to see our
students shining and gaining confidence,
too, so that when they do go out into
(24:52):
the job market, they've already had some
practice with this type of thing, which
is often a bit of a shock when people
first do that if they haven't had those
sorts of experiences. Part of the reason
that I put it in the glass. At some
point, you're going to have to pitch
your designs to somebody. So, this may
not be a design, but give us your pitch.
Sounds like a great experience for sure.
the fact that a student is willing to do
(25:13):
something over and over again. That
doesn't happen with all the assignments
we give in other classes. So that
certainly provides a bit of information
about the amount of intrinsic motivation
that projects of this sort generate,
especially when it's going to be
realized in front of an audience. It has
an audience. I think that's a key
component. The first semester that I ran
that, I had a student who wanted to do
(25:35):
something on sustainability in fashion.
deeply committed to sustainable causes
and eco-causes and concerned about the
earth and its ecological health. And
that student came in with a presentation
that would have been fine as a
dissertation. She had two slides of
references and citations and just the
(25:58):
depth that she had gone to. And I
remember checking in with her weekly and
saying, "This is great." And she's, "But
I have to look into this." No, this is
great. this is a two-year college. What
you've done is good, but she was
determined. And of course, I'm not going
to say no.
She was determined to go deeper. Well,
(26:19):
we always wrap up by asking what's next.
That's a really good question. So, we've
revamped the course learning objectives
and the description to make it more
accurately reflect what we're doing in
the class and to introduce some of the
very heavy technological elements, the
(26:39):
AI and the cutting edge engineering, CAD
designing. So, we've got those sort of
cemented in place and now I kind of want
to see how we can get students thinking
differently. students are starting to
get the idea of I can make this digital
design. I can create it here. I can make
it physically. I can export it. But I
(27:01):
really want to start getting them
thinking about what that means for the
industry as a whole. Because you can
sell garments you've never made yet. It
flips the entire process on its head.
You can make garments that are never
designed to be worn physically. They're
only ever made to be in that 3D modeling
space. And these are just new and
(27:23):
different ways of experiencing fashion.
Instead of being something that you just
physically put on your body and okay,
we're going to walk around in it. It's
something that might react to how you
walk or it might react to how you move
or it might react to the environment
that you're in. Although, I'm not sure I
would like it if my shirt did something
if I walked in the gym. But hey, I want
(27:45):
the students to start thinking about
those things and think about what the
next steps might be in the industry. So,
we know McNe Marcus is starting to put
magic mirrors in their flagship stores
where users can go in, visitors can go
in, they can stand in front of the
mirror and you walk into that fitting
room and instead of trying things on,
(28:05):
you just push the buttons on the side of
the wall. Boom. I want to wear that
dress. Oh, no. I want it in red. and get
the students to start thinking about
what's really possible out there. That
sort of big picture thinking is a big
part of where I want this class to go.
We'll add to that cross collaboration
with digital art students, maybe with
(28:26):
some CIS students, and start making it
into something that's more than just
fashion. Well, thanks for giving us lots
to think about and maybe motivate some
of us to integrate more technology into
our classes. Thank you. This was an
interesting conversation and was
something a little bit different than
what I normally do in my classes and
it's nice to hear about these innovative
(28:47):
approaches. Thank you.
If you've enjoyed this podcast, please
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can find show notes, transcripts, and
(29:09):
other materials on tforeing.com.
Music by Michael Gary Brewer.
[Music]
[Music]
Technological change affects all aspects
of our lives and our instructional
practices must evolve to prepare
students for their futures. In this
episode, we explore strategies used in
one program to prepare students for an
industry that is evolving with digital
tools.
[Music]
(00:23):
Thanks for joining us for T for
Teaching, an informal discussion of
innovative and effective practices in
teaching and learning. This podcast
series is hosted by John Kaine, an
economist, and Rebecca Musher, a graphic
designer, and features guests doing
important research and advocacy work to
make higher education more inclusive and
(00:43):
supportive of all learners.
[Music]
[Applause]
[Music]
Our guest today is Ly Gross. Ly is an
online learning specialist and an
adjunct technology instructor at Sunni
Jennese Community College. Welcome Ly.
Hey, thank you. Today's TE's are Ly. Are
(01:07):
you drinking tea today? See, the thing
is is I know what the honest answer is.
You told me. You outed yourself. I did.
I meant to make a cup of tea and I
didn't. I am drinking a mix of
peppermint, spearmint, and teragon tea.
Always a good choice. Sean, today I have
a decaffeinated Irish breakfast tea,
(01:29):
which just seems like an oxymoron. I
don't know.
It could have been the really strong
builder's tea that's decaffeinated,
which would really be even more of an
oxymoron. Yeah. We've invited you here
today to discuss your course on fashion
industry technologies in which students
work with AI image generation, 3D
(01:49):
virtual design and modeling, magic
mirrors, and artificial and extended
reality technology. Can you tell us a
little bit about this course and what
role this course plays in the Genese
Community College fashion curriculum?
So, the course is actually called
fashion industry technologies. It's an
overview course and whereas many of the
(02:11):
classes in the curriculum are focused on
hands-on making something. Right now,
this class is designed to be a little
bit more forward-looking. It's not the
capstone class, but it does set the
students up for their capstone, which is
the spring fashion show where they
present their final portfolio. And this
course really stands out from the rest
(02:32):
of the program with the tech that we
introduce the students to.
So we do AI generated images, we do 3D
garment modeling all on the computer, we
do digitized patterning, we do extended
reality, we do things that right now
they're being used by like the really
(02:52):
really big fashion houses. We're talking
Gucci, Louis Vuitton. We're doing the
kind of work that is being pioneered by
them right now. and they use that
technology to streamline the whole
design process and accelerate to market.
And so my philosophy with the course is
that I'm not just teaching students or
(03:13):
preparing students for a job in a year
or two years. They may go on to another
college. I need to prepare them for a
job that's going to exist four to five
years out. And that's where the focus of
this class is. We're giving them early
exposure to very very high-tech, very
very cutting edge sort of tools that are
really shaping the future of fashion.
(03:33):
And honestly, I tell my students every
day, it does not matter to me if you
learn to press the correct button or you
learn the names of all the buttons. What
matters to me is that you learned how to
think creatively in that new tool. And
you learned how to problem solve either
with or without the AI. And you learned
how to communicate your ideas in new
(03:55):
ways and really think about fashion as
an experience and not as something that
you cut and sew together. Can you talk a
little bit about what students are
actually doing? You've talked a little
bit about what the technology is, but
what are some of the actual things that
they're doing in the class? So, the way
that I designed the class, and I took
this class over from another instructor,
and it was kind of funny because she
(04:17):
said, "Well, we do this and this and
this and this." And then at the end of
the class, you have like these three
weeks where you can pick a topic that
you want that's on the edge of fashion
and do what you want. And I right away I
thought, "Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.
I'm going to let the students pick
something and they're all going to pick
something different and they're going to
share it and we're going to have this
wonderful peer experience that's going
to be much richer than anything that I
(04:39):
could choose. So, we have two tracks
that run sort of side by side throughout
the entire semester. On the one hand,
they're designing a single outfit that
they'll eventually have in the spring
fashion show. So, they're using
Photoshop and they're using Illustrator
and they're using the 3D modeling
software and other digital tools and
they're realizing that vision. They're
(04:59):
working in the digital realm until they
realize their vision and then we project
it onto the table, cut it out in the
fabric, make it, which is wonderful. So
that's like one whole semester long
project divided into a series of modules
of different parts. But at the same time
I have them doing a semesterl long
technology project and that can be
(05:21):
anything they want to do. I ask them to
develop a proposal at the beginning of
the class and I approve it and then they
go throughout the class and at the end
of the class they present whatever their
end result is. I have had students who
have programmed AI to make sewing
patterns. I've had students who've done
custom textile prints and had them
(05:43):
printed. I've had students who've made
prototypes. I've had prototype
motorcycle helmets. Had prototype pants
for wheelchair users. All kinds of
really cool stuff. One student did an
entire video series that was influencer
marketing. It's like this is awesome
stuff. So, they do that sort of at the
same time. So there's really two tracks
(06:04):
going on in the class and they're going
on simultaneously
and that's just how we run it. Could you
elaborate on those two tracks? What
components are a students choosing and
what components are common to all the
students? Well, I'm a glutton for
punishment. The common track where
they're all designing an outfit, they
(06:24):
are all designing an outfit and they're
all at the same place at the same time
on the process of designing that outfit,
but all of those fits will be different.
So, one of them is doing a beach outfit
and another one is doing a ball gown
made of denim. So, they're all over the
map, but they're working side by side
using the same tools and they're sort of
at the same development process or
(06:46):
design process. They're at the same
place. Now, the second track, which is
the individual project, they're all over
the map. Once they have submitted a
proposal and I have approved it, I meet
with the students once a week to say,
"How are you doing on your project?" We
basically have scrum sessions. What did
you do last time? What are you going to
do next time? What's standing in your
(07:08):
way? How can I help you get over
whatever your current obstacle is? But I
am talking to one student about the
Unreal gaming engine. And then I
literally turn around, next student,
okay, we're talking about flashing
lights that are going to go on your
helmet. So, that one's all over the
place, but I don't think that students
(07:28):
get as much out of the class when it's a
set assignment. I prefer that the
students pick their assignments. So, in
both cases, they pick what they want to
do. What role does AI play in the class?
I know this is one of the technologies
you noted that you're experimenting with
in this class. Is that something that's
built into the track that everyone's
doing or is that just something that
(07:49):
some folks are choosing to do? It's a
little bit of both. It shows up in a
couple of different ways. So, we do an
AI focused unit when we hit Photoshop
because we talk about AI image
generation and we talk about it from a
practical standpoint of what can you do,
what can't you do, what are the limits
of it right now and we talk about it
(08:10):
from an ethical standpoint. Is it really
appropriate for us to be developing,
let's say, copies of things? how much of
the AI that you're using is actually
scraped from somebody else's work and
how much of that are you comfortable
working with. So, we have those kinds of
discussions and I make sure that
everybody has those kinds of
(08:31):
discussions. A deeper use of AI usually
turns up in the research projects and it
could be students can use AI to generate
mood boards. They can generate new
prints. They can generate something that
sparks their own creativity or they can
use it maybe to do research. So they
could identify trends or do some
(08:53):
analysis and use it in that way. I did
have one student that tried to program
an AI to develop technical patterns and
at the end of the day he made it work
and I was just like yay. I didn't think
you were going to be able to do that. I
honestly did not think the project would
work. And I was explaining to the
(09:14):
student, if you come to me and you have
a paper that says, "Here are five ways I
tried it and none of them worked for
these reasons, that's an A. I'm going to
give you a solid grade on that." And he
made it work anyway. He insisted he was
going to make it work.
You also mentioned that students are
using augmented reality and extended
reality. Do you have headsets for all
(09:37):
the students or are there a number of
headsets that are available that
students in the class can use while
they're working on these projects? So,
we don't. We got a grant this year. It's
a President's Innovation Grant that
happens every year at GCC and I along
with our media technologies department,
we wrote up a grant for four VR headsets
(09:59):
and five magic mirrors. And the thing
about working on those is that when
you're developing the environment,
you're not wearing the equipment. So
you're sitting on the computer. We have
12 very, very expensive, very, very
heavy gaming laptops that we use to do
our 3D modeling. And those laptops are
the same ones that we use to develop the
(10:21):
digital environments. So there's two
things that we do with those. We do the
magic mirror concept that takes the
outfit design that the students have
made and it puts it on a human being.
And then we have the extended reality or
the virtual reality where we can do a
full VR showroom that you can walk
around in and see the models and you can
(10:41):
reach out and touch the fabrics. You
don't get a tactile sense, but if you'd
like to know, is this skirt full? You
can pick it up and spread it out to see
how it looks. How are students
responding to using these different
technologies in your class? So, as with
all things like each according to their
own idea of how they like it or don't,
(11:04):
some of the students they jump in and
they just absolutely, oh, I'm so
excited. Technology, give me give me
give me. And some students are very
frustrated because I'm essentially
teaching them how to design in computer
to do a thing that they know how to do
in real life on a mannequin. So, they've
already learned how to drape a new
(11:25):
garment on a mannequin and create
something new and they're getting pretty
good at it. And then they have to go
back and relearn it on the computer. And
of course, you're starting over again.
And so, it's very, very slow. It's like
learning a new language. like I know how
to say this, but how do I say this? And
so some of them get very frustrating.
But one thing that's really fun is a
(11:47):
student will come in and right at the
beginning of the class, you can always
tell when it's going to happen cuz they
come in and they crack open the laptop
and they're all excited and they're
like, "Hey, hey, hey, hey, you got to
see what I made last night." And just it
lights up the whole room and all the
frustrations are just out the window and
let's get to working on our projects
today. Sounds like that would definitely
lend to some momentum in class for sure.
(12:10):
Can you talk a little bit about how some
of these technologies are being used in
other contexts on campus? Are students
having opportunities to use extended
reality in other spaces beyond the
fashion program or some of the other
tools that you're talking about? So, I
can talk a little bit about that. I
personally would love to bring these
tools into a whole bunch of courses, but
(12:32):
we're a two-year college and time is
tight and there is what you can do is
what you can do. So, I'm kind of looking
at ways that we can layer it in. So, for
example, I mentioned that the students
have already learned how to drape on a
mannequin. One of the things that I'm
talking to my department chair about is
about making my class and that draping
(12:52):
class co-requisites so that the students
are learning to drape in two modes at
the same time and one set of knowledge
should be able to feed on the other and
that should improve our frustration
level with it. The other thing I'm
talking about kind of talking to the
dean is about the potential for teaching
this class not just to fashion students
(13:14):
but to digital arts students and to CIS
students. Because when you're creating a
brand new avatar and then you're
creating garments and accessories on the
avatar, the end output of my class, it
could be a fashion design. That's what
we're doing right now. But the output at
the end of my class could just as easily
be a fully rendered digital avatar. And
(13:35):
both of those programs could benefit
from that technology. So we're having
those kinds of discussions. We haven't
moved anywhere yet, but I think that's
where we're going. You mentioned that
students are doing the types of things
that higherend designers are doing.
Could you talk a little bit about some
of the applications that are being used
in industry and how that might perhaps
(13:56):
motivate students a little bit to see
that they're doing something that is
state-of-the-art work? So when you're
talking technology, language sometimes
gets fluid and becomes difficult because
we don't have words for the things that
exist. You know, it's like let's go back
to the 1800s and ask about a
refrigerator. There is no such thing.
But what we are doing is the students
(14:18):
design the fashion. And when they're
designing in real life, they're
designing, they're cutting, they're
sewing, they're attaching, they're
fitting, and they're coordinating and
styling on a real life person. And it's
a sort of a I don't want to call it a
fixed experience because it can be
radically different every time, but it
(14:38):
has a very fixed sort of sequencing. And
when you talk about some of this virtual
technology, a lot of that goes right out
the window. So, we can fit clothing onto
our bodies before it's ever been made.
So, I can make a nice sherpa jacket,
okay, with the fuzzy sherpa texture, and
(15:00):
I can make accessories and make designs
and patches and what have you on it. And
I can put that on my body in my sizing
and see in a magic mirror what it's
going to look like. And then I can put
it on one of my students with a very
different body type and see what it's
going to look like on her. And it
changes the way that we think about the
fashion experience. Instead of us
(15:22):
producing a solid sort of unchangeable
garment, we start to think about ways
that you can experience fashion both
before it's been made and even after
it's been made. So, some of my students
have been inspired to do things. One of
my students was inspired to create a
lightup design in their fashion that
(15:42):
reacts to the user and the user's
movement or the wearer's movement. And
this is just a way that we're rethinking
how we experience fashion. I know you
mentioned that students are kind of
prepping for a fashion show that follows
this course. It's a prequel.
to the fashion show. Can you talk a
(16:03):
little bit about how that has evolved
over the last couple of semesters or
years as students are integrating more
and more with different technologies?
So, integrating it is actually one of my
big struggles at the moment that the
students as I said they know how to
design a garment on a mannequin and they
don't want to learn a new way of doing
(16:24):
things just before the fashion show. And
so every year we're sort of increasing
the number of requirements or trying to
replace the requirements maybe where
they have to do x number of designs for
the fashion show. Well, now we can maybe
do x minus one and then you have to do
one digital. One of the nice things
about the spring fashion show is that
(16:46):
that's the point where it kind of all
comes together where students have been
working on a digital image and it's in
the computer and they can see it in the
magic mirror and they can see it in the
VR space, but it's not real. You can't
touch it quite yet. And when you project
the pattern on the table and you
actually cut it out and you sew it
(17:07):
together and you put it on a model, now
it's real. Now it's a real thing. I made
this really cool digital thing and here
it is. It's there. That's fun.
I'm sure it's exciting for students to
see the things that they've spent a lot
of time developing in a digital space
and then to see that in a physical
space. I know I have that experience
(17:28):
with design students who make an image
on screen and then they see it in print
or they see it produced, right? When a
student designs a new textile pattern or
they design a dress and we put it in the
digital space and maybe you'll see
different people wearing it in the magic
mirror, but then we see it in person,
that fabric arrives from the vendor or
(17:50):
that design is fully formed and it's put
on a model who's walking in it. It's a
whole full circle moment. I had this
vision in my head. I made it happen on
the screen and now here it is in real
life. So that's the direction that we're
going in and continuously sort of moving
that way. Are there other faculty who
(18:11):
are teaching fashion courses who are
starting to consider using these tools?
So far we have not had a lot of
crossover between the various classes.
There definitely is the potential there
and I think as the technology gets
deeper and deeper into the program and
the students get more used to it we may
see some collaborations happening
particularly in merchandising because
(18:33):
there's a lot of merchandising
opportunity with this sort of technology
but so far we haven't done any of that.
One of the things that could also happen
is if the students get really excited
about this, they may start suggesting
that to other faculty who might perhaps
be inspired to extend their courses a
bit in a new way. I can only hope I'll
go back to my student that I seriously
(18:53):
didn't think that he could get the AI to
do what it did and he got it to do what
it did and he was so excited by it and
he just brings that excitement over and
other instructors will come up to me and
say insert student name is so excited
about the project that he did for you
and told me all about it. Okay, great.
Let's talk about how we can kind of
cross collaborate. Let's talk about how
(19:15):
we can do joint assignments. Let's talk
about how my teaching can feed your
teaching and grow into something because
gives a student a more holistic view of
a process as opposed to I need this
thing for this course and that thing for
that course. I'm all about holistic
learning. Can you tell?
(19:36):
I'm sure by the time the students are
completing their fashion shows and
they've gone through the struggle and
then they see things in reality that
they start to see the value in adding an
electronic or digital practice into
their process because some things can be
speedier. They can make some different
decisions without having to make and
(19:57):
remake physically because those
adjustments can be made. you can see it
in the magic mirror. Try something else.
See in the magic mirror again before
you're actually creating it. Have
students reflected on that experience a
bit and indicated like, "Yeah, I can see
how I was super frustrated in your
class, but now I can see how I might use
(20:17):
this moving forward." I know that in
some of the kinds of technology classes
I've taught, I've definitely had
students who were like super resistant
during the class, but then like three
years later, I get an email from them
saying, "Guess what I'm doing?
This fall, I'll be rolling into my third
year teaching the class. So, I'm still
waiting for those students to come back.
But I will say that I've had some
(20:38):
really, really good conversations with
students about actually selling their
digital designs because beyond creating
the physical element, there's the
element of selling your design in, I
don't know, The Sims or in the
metaverse.
Of course, I'm a nerd. I have a Metverse
account. and my avatar in the Metverse
(20:58):
account has an outfit that I purchased
from the Metverse store. So, I've had
some really interesting conversations
with students about the potential for
designing fashion that is strictly
digital that will never be made. And
that gets to be really interesting
conversations and obviously there's no
other way to do that. No, digital
(21:18):
clothing can do things that real
clothing can't. Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.
So, I do cosplay from time to time. And
when you talk about digital clothing
that does things that real clothing
can't, the engineering that we have to
go into to try and make that video game
character outfit actually come to life
(21:41):
and then make it actually behave the way
that it behaves when it's on the avatar
to make the skirt fling properly, to
make the cape fling properly. You got
this feather thing sticking out your
shoulder. Like it doesn't even have a
name. We're not really sure what it is,
but it's sticking out the character's
shoulder and it goes three feet in the
air. How do we make that without it
(22:03):
wobbling all over the place? And we can
use these new digital tools to try and
design different sorts of structural
elements to the fit so that when we do
make it hopefully it behaves the way
that it should. But yeah, you can make a
(22:24):
whole lot of things in the digital realm
that just don't work in the real world.
So could you tell us a little bit more
about the fall symposium and what
students have done there and how it's
worked? So the fall symposium is
absolutely my favorite part of the
course. It is their final exam in my
course and
(22:45):
what they do is whatever that long tech
project that they decided they were
going to do, they go and they present
it. And so we try and make it as much
like a symposium as possible. We don't
always get people to come, but we invite
high school sewing classes and we invite
the 4 and we invite every student on
campus and all of the faculty to come in
(23:06):
and see what the students are doing. And
we usually get a half a room full, big
lecture hall, half a room full. And the
students will present anything from a
research paper to a fully realized
prototype that people can pick up and
come and talk about. What is really
exciting for me is to see the students
(23:27):
in this culmination of this project
because it's something that is deeply
meaningful for them every single time. I
mentioned a student who did a prototype
pair of pants for wheelchair users. And
that student had been in a car accident
and she came in with a prototype pair of
pants and did a short presentation on
why you should do adaptive fashion, why
(23:48):
the major fashion housesers should be
paying attention to it. And what she had
done for her project was a Tik Tok video
explaining how to take a regular pair of
pants and make it into an adaptive pair.
And she finished really, really quickly.
And the first question that I wanted to
ask her and I asked her, I said, "Now,
how many times did you make that
prototype before the one that you
(24:09):
brought with you today?" And she said,
"I think this is number 16."
But they're so excited and they're so
involved and they go so deeply into it
because they care so much about what
they're presenting. And I try and give
them a nice wide audience. And we have
the before symposium gathering where I
(24:30):
say, "It's okay. I know you're not a
public speaker, but you can do this."
And they go in and they have that really
transformative experience from the fear
of public speaking to, "Hey, I'm going
to tell you about this thing." It's my
favorite part of the whole class. That's
awesome. It's always great to see our
students shining and gaining confidence,
too, so that when they do go out into
(24:52):
the job market, they've already had some
practice with this type of thing, which
is often a bit of a shock when people
first do that if they haven't had those
sorts of experiences. Part of the reason
that I put it in the glass. At some
point, you're going to have to pitch
your designs to somebody. So, this may
not be a design, but give us your pitch.
Sounds like a great experience for sure.
the fact that a student is willing to do
(25:13):
something over and over again. That
doesn't happen with all the assignments
we give in other classes. So that
certainly provides a bit of information
about the amount of intrinsic motivation
that projects of this sort generate,
especially when it's going to be
realized in front of an audience. It has
an audience. I think that's a key
component. The first semester that I ran
that, I had a student who wanted to do
(25:35):
something on sustainability in fashion.
deeply committed to sustainable causes
and eco-causes and concerned about the
earth and its ecological health. And
that student came in with a presentation
that would have been fine as a
dissertation. She had two slides of
references and citations and just the
(25:58):
depth that she had gone to. And I
remember checking in with her weekly and
saying, "This is great." And she's, "But
I have to look into this." No, this is
great. this is a two-year college. What
you've done is good, but she was
determined. And of course, I'm not going
to say no.
She was determined to go deeper. Well,
(26:19):
we always wrap up by asking what's next.
That's a really good question. So, we've
revamped the course learning objectives
and the description to make it more
accurately reflect what we're doing in
the class and to introduce some of the
very heavy technological elements, the
(26:39):
AI and the cutting edge engineering, CAD
designing. So, we've got those sort of
cemented in place and now I kind of want
to see how we can get students thinking
differently. students are starting to
get the idea of I can make this digital
design. I can create it here. I can make
it physically. I can export it. But I
(27:01):
really want to start getting them
thinking about what that means for the
industry as a whole. Because you can
sell garments you've never made yet. It
flips the entire process on its head.
You can make garments that are never
designed to be worn physically. They're
only ever made to be in that 3D modeling
space. And these are just new and
(27:23):
different ways of experiencing fashion.
Instead of being something that you just
physically put on your body and okay,
we're going to walk around in it. It's
something that might react to how you
walk or it might react to how you move
or it might react to the environment
that you're in. Although, I'm not sure I
would like it if my shirt did something
if I walked in the gym. But hey, I want
(27:45):
the students to start thinking about
those things and think about what the
next steps might be in the industry. So,
we know McNe Marcus is starting to put
magic mirrors in their flagship stores
where users can go in, visitors can go
in, they can stand in front of the
mirror and you walk into that fitting
room and instead of trying things on,
(28:05):
you just push the buttons on the side of
the wall. Boom. I want to wear that
dress. Oh, no. I want it in red. and get
the students to start thinking about
what's really possible out there. That
sort of big picture thinking is a big
part of where I want this class to go.
We'll add to that cross collaboration
with digital art students, maybe with
(28:26):
some CIS students, and start making it
into something that's more than just
fashion. Well, thanks for giving us lots
to think about and maybe motivate some
of us to integrate more technology into
our classes. Thank you. This was an
interesting conversation and was
something a little bit different than
what I normally do in my classes and
it's nice to hear about these innovative
(28:47):
approaches. Thank you.
If you've enjoyed this podcast, please
subscribe and leave a review on iTunes
or your favorite podcast service. To
continue the conversation, join us on
our T for Teaching Facebook page. You
can find show notes, transcripts, and
(29:09):
other materials on tforeing.com.
Music by Michael Gary Brewer.
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