September 3, 2024 • 30 mins
One Washington school district is putting AI into practice.
Today we're joined by Peninsula School District leaders Kris Hagel and John Yellowlees, who together are making education more accessible using artificial intelligence. Kris and John discuss their AI integration efforts: from helping teachers leverage AI tools for lesson planning and differentiation to encouraging students to explore AI and hone skills like prompt engineering. Plus, they provide insight on getting started with AI and setting principles for using it ethically.
Teachers in America profiles K–12 teachers across the country. Hear firsthand from the people who are shaping young lives in the classroom every day. If you or someone you know would be a good candidate for Teachers in America, please email us at shaped@hmhco.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What can we do to reduce workload, reduce burnout,
reduce stress, and some ofthese AI tools can really help
teachers save a lot of the time,of some of the minutia that
they have to do for their jobs,and so that's been a huge.
I think that's one of the hugereasons why teachers are
embracing it so much is becausethey can see it.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
From paper and pencil to Wi-Fi and AI.
Education is ever-evolving.
On this new season of Teachersin America, we'll keep you on
the forefront of what's new.
We connect with teachers and edleaders to talk trending topics
and real issues, bringing youinspiring ideas that will
influence the future of yourteaching.
Today, we're excited to welcomeDr Josh Starr to the Teachers
(00:41):
in America team.
Josh comes with a leadershipbackground, having served as a
superintendent of schools, andis currently a managing partner
for the Center for Model Schools.
This past summer, at the ModelSchools Conference, josh had a
chance to connect with PeninsulaSchool District leaders, chief
Information Officer Chris Hageland Chief Academic Officer John
Yeddlelees, who together aremaking education more inclusive
(01:03):
using artificial intelligence.
In this episode, they'lldiscuss how to integrate AI into
the classroom and sharestrategies for using it
ethically.
Now here's Josh, chris and John.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
So, john and Chris, thank you for joining me.
So first, how are you enjoyingthe conference?
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I would say the strong focus on pedagogy in all
of the sessions and throughouthas been really impressive to
see so far.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yeah.
So that's great, and that'swhat we try to do is focus on
teaching and learning.
So this is where I think thatyou have something to teach us
about how you can use AI toactually improve teaching and
learning, because what I've beenseeing in the conversation
oftentimes is people may be alittle afraid of it that it's
going to somehow hurt teachingand learning, because what I've
been seeing in the conversationoftentimes is people may be a
little afraid of it, that it'sgoing to somehow hurt teaching
(01:48):
and learning, but you all havetaken a different approach.
This could actually elevate andimprove teaching and learning
and take it to the next level.
So talk about what you've beendoing in the district.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Sure.
So we started out.
We actually had teachers thatwere working through some
learning around AI even beforeChatGPT got out.
So in the spring of 22, we hada cohort of teachers that were
taking some facilitatedprofessional learning through
ISTE on some of the AI toolsthat were available at that time
(02:19):
.
And we look back at them nowand they were pretty rudimentary
at the time but they reallyseemed like they were the
forefront of Like what kind oftools?
Just some very, very basic textgeneration or image creation
tools, more on the machinelearning side of artificial
intelligence, so things thatmachines can learn from the data
that's out there.
It was really just a dip ourtoe in to see what's going on,
(02:42):
to make sure that we're stayingin front of what might be coming
.
But at that time I think wethought we were.
We were looking at somethingthat was going to impact us five
years down the road, not threemonths down the road.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
So, but you had you said you had teachers that sort
of started doing it.
So has this been a teacher ledinitiative or is just in
collaboration with teachers?
Cause it's always powerful, I,when leaders at the central
office level are saying, hey,let's actually see what real
live teachers in real liveclassrooms are doing.
So talk a little bit about thatprocess of how you've gotten
teachers involved.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Sure.
So yeah, we're kind of in aninteresting place where,
unfortunately for us and ourdistrict, we had to make some
significant budget cuts lastyear and so we lost a lot of our
central office instructionalfacilitation.
A lot of those people were putback in the classroom because we
needed to cut about 8% of ourbudget, and so we've relied
(03:33):
really on this being ateacher-led initiative.
I mean, we steer it and guideit in a certain direction, but
for the most part it's taken onby a group of, I would say, 30
to 35 teachers in our districtthat really are passionate about
it and see the future, and thenwe just kind of help make sure
it goes in the right direction,as they, you know, they start
talking and developing andthinking through what this looks
(03:54):
like in the classroom.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Yeah, it's interesting how the crisis of a
budget cut can create anopportunity, right?
So, john, is the CAO right?
How were you, if Chris isstarting to come to you and say,
hey, teachers are starting todo this interesting stuff?
And you got to report to thesuperintendent and the board and
you got to think about, okay,let's bring some sense and order
to this so that people aren'tjust doing whatever they want
(04:16):
with this new tool that we stilldon't really know what it's
going to do.
So how did you then approachhow AI should fit into, sort of
the larger environment of theschool system?
Speaker 4 (04:27):
Yeah, well, I think it really fits nicely with our
work around UDL.
We've had an initiative for thepast six years, I believe.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
And for UDL.
Just talk a little bit aboutwhat UDL is Universal Design for
Learning.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
So it's really providing students multiple
means to access content, toengage in the content, represent
their learning.
So as part of a broader MTSSinitiative that we started about
six years ago, we started aweave in UDL as really a means
for all students to accesscontent grade level content in a
meaningful way.
So the more we were working onUDL and as AI emerged as a
(04:58):
potential tool to really helpthat and provide teachers with
that, that's kind of where theintegration occurred and where
the connection with teaching andlearning really took place and
what?
Speaker 3 (05:08):
what was the response ?
I mean, what were?
So you got?
You got your sort of leadingedge teachers who are saying,
hey, we got to do some stuffwith this, guys, let's make it
happen.
Then you got others who areprobably sitting there like I
can't deal with one more thing,right.
So how have you been able to?
What was the response?
You started integrating thiswith udl and started rolling
things out.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
I think there's definitely, as in all cases,
some early adopters and thosethat are a little more reluctant
and kind of this too shall pass, kind of mentality.
And as we began that work thistime last year really was
engaging in professionallearning with our teaching staff
, that prior connection, thatprior work we'd done around UDL
and some of the resources thatwe've since provided to teachers
(05:46):
that are pretty accessible foreducational purposes around.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
AI, but how do you deal with quality control?
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, so that's one of the things and I don't want
to speak for John's whole team,but I know I talk to them quite
a bit and that you know in thoseconversations we've been having
, is this just another problemthat we're generating?
for ourselves now with all ofthis content.
That's not as quality.
It's a little different, though, because you know teachers are
actually targeting towards ourcurriculum, targeting towards
(06:14):
the standards that we need to bemeeting, not just, you know,
downloading the neat coolworksheet out there, and so you
know we've, we have some morework to do, and I know that his
team is working on that and howwe'd vet some of this content.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
But yeah, it's.
I think Chris and his team havedone some great work in
professional learning aroundprompt that so say, for example,
if we're utilizing that or adifferent tool to generate a
(06:48):
behavior plan for a student, forexample, the prompt engineering
piece and what we're puttinginto AI is critical, but then
sitting down and reviewing whatthat spits out in terms of, in
this case, a behavior plan, withthe entire team and those who
have expertise around the tableis critical.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Right, I've been, as I've been diving into AI a
little more and reading EthanMollick stuff and Ezra Klein did
some great podcasts that kindof introduced me to some of it.
This notion of prompting I'mkind of obsessed with this
notion of prompt engineering,because it seemed like the
intentionality anddeliberateness of understanding
the question you want to ask andthe problem you're trying to
(07:23):
solve is, to me, what seems tobe the real power of AI, not
just the ability to spitinformation out.
So like I'm curious how youactually teach people, how you
teach adults that, and I'm alsocurious about the application
for kids for that.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah, so there's been some good work out on this.
Like I took and transformed a acourse that a professor from
Vanderbilt put together onprompt engineering and I took
that and his course was 10 hourslong and I took it and brought
it down to four hours for ourcabinet and we did that for
adults.
And then I had one and then oneof our AI teacher or teachers
(08:00):
that have been really passionateabout AI he took my work and
then moved it down to a 45minute lesson that he could do
in a staff meeting, if you knowwhen the principal gave him 45
minutes.
So you know, it's, it's a skilland it's also, you know, we
have a lot we're having a lot ofconversations about.
You know, is this somethingthat's a skill that we're going
to need for a long time, or isthis a skill that we're going to
(08:21):
need for a little time, like asAI gets better, or is this
still going to be something weneed For right now?
It sure looks like it, and sowe're trying to teach it to
teachers who are trying to then,you know, teach it to staff.
There's some great resourcesout there.
There's organizations that areputting out some really nice
frameworks around writing goodprompts easy for teachers to
understand, to follow and figureout how to you know out how to
(08:43):
write a good prompt to get agood response back.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Right, right, I mean one of the things I've been
thinking about.
You know, when the coding crazestarted 15 years ago and coding
could be the next coal mining.
I think about that with promptengineering, like, how do you
keep people understanding thatthis is going to be generative?
Right, it's going to constantlybe new.
We've got to constantly be ontop of it.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Yeah, there's a topic or there's a conversation going
on right now that I think isreally going to be fascinating
to watch over the next year, andthat's whether I guess, to say
it the easiest way is the nextcoding language going to be
English, Because that's what itseems like it's going towards.
Maybe it's not the nuts andbolts of where to put colons and
commas and everything in aprogramming language, but how to
(09:27):
really say something in veryclear and detailed language to
get AI to do what you want it todo.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
So a totally different kind of literacy, yeah
.
So how do you, if that's thecase?
So this is where I'm curious,like, and from the CAO
perspective, when you thinkingabout more broadly so how do you
start integrating that kind ofthinking into teaching and
learning and curriculum for kidsso they can, because they're
going to be the ones that aredoing it in 2035 and 2040 and
(09:55):
2050 and 2060, right, andthey're going to be doing a year
region in the Seattle area,right, where you've got a lot of
tech.
So how do you teach kids tostart?
Speaker 4 (10:03):
thinking that way.
Well, you can chime in on thistoo, chris but I think on a
smaller scale that's what someof our teachers have been doing.
So we've involved some teachersin some professional learning
over the past year, year and ahalf and some of the same
modules that Chris was talkingabout in terms of those that we
administered to our leadershipteam, principals and others.
Teachers are then taking thatprompt engineering piece and
(10:23):
working with their kids.
So we have a teacher at one ofour middle schools, for example,
who is working with kids andstudents on that prompt
engineering piece.
So what do you put into chat,gtp to get the response that
you're looking for, and reallykind of analyzing that and
working through that withstudents, not just the final
product but the work that leadsup to that final product, say
for a social studies assignmentthat might be administered.
(10:46):
So, on a small scale, ourteachers are working on that.
Those that we've been meetingwith are really, again, pioneers
in this field but have talkedwith us quite a bit about how do
we expand this more broadly sothat all of our staff are
getting same professionallearning, and that time for
professional learning andexpanding that training is
really kind of the challengethat we face now so what's,
(11:07):
what's been the response fromkids?
Speaker 3 (11:09):
and I'm also curious about the response from parents
too, if you've seen anythingwith it yeah, chris can speak to
that.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
He did some um.
Great sir gathered some greatsurvey data last year on that
very topic yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
So, um, we we did when we, when we started
bringing teachers together lastyear, we really wanted to
collect data and get feedbackfrom the teachers on how this is
going and with the kids on howit's going.
Kids have, of course, they havekind of an excitement, but also
a hesitancy.
We're also starting to see morethis year of a Some of the kids
(11:42):
really being thoughtful about.
You know, I really want thethings that I write to make sure
that they sound like me and Idon't want to be the one that
uses, you know, just doing thisbecause it's the easy way out.
So you kind of get the bothsides of that coin.
You know, some kids really justwant to get their project done
and get it, or it's like theyalways have.
There's others that are reallybecoming a little bit more
(12:03):
resistant to using AI in somecases because they want to make
sure that their voice is heardand that they you know what they
say and what they turn in orwhat they.
You know, a lot of kids werelast year were thinking like, oh
, I'm just going to use this onmy college applications, I'm
going to use this for everythingthat I just need to turn in and
get it over with.
And now kids are kind ofrolling that back and saying, no
, I want to, I want to, I wantto do a better job than what I'm
(12:25):
going to get.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
That's fascinating, Right Cause so that and I want
to make sure I get this right soso, the assumptions that we as
adults have about how kids mightuse it cheating oh my gosh.
Oh, it's easy.
You're actually seeingsomething different because,
like no, I want my voice to beincluded.
I think it's really fascinating.
So do you have student voice inhow you think about all this?
(12:48):
Do you engage kids in it?
Because, again, I think it'softentimes as adults, our
assumptions about how kids areactually going to respond and
what they're thinking may betotally different.
So how do you get themactivated and helping you think
this through?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, we've spent a lot, so we did a lot of survey
data last year and then thisyear we've kind of done more on
the focus group side.
We've talked about AI.
Our superintendent has astudent advisory council.
We've done it there.
I've been in meeting withleadership team or teachers and
their kids.
We also have another group ofkids that are going through a
teacher apprenticeship programat the high school and I sit
(13:22):
down with them regularly becausetheir teacher is big and making
sure they're prepared with theAI tools that they're going to
need moving forward, and so Ihave a lot of conversations with
the kids.
That's how we get some of thisfeedback around what is you know
, how are they feeling andwhat's going on.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
I've done some real intentional work at one of our
high schools, our alternativehigh school this year with AI
and UDL, and I think, like Chriswas speaking to that, rather
than surveying that, sittingdown with students, that focus
group type environment, you geta lot of really powerful
feedback from that rather thansending out a survey.
So, um, and we, we utilize thatas we as we move forward.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
So what's?
Speaker 4 (13:54):
but what was like most surprising that the kids
said said to you in this I think, like Chris, was alluding to
just that desire to have theirown voice come through, rather
than it be something generatedfor them on behalf of them.
So I think that and we've, youknow, done some other innovative
work in the district aroundcell phone usage and or lack
thereof, and we make assumptionsas adults that this is not what
(14:15):
, you know, students want.
But when you actually sit downwith kids, whether it's the AI
or the cell phone piece, thereports we get back are you know
, this is great.
We having not having cellphones, for example, in the
classroom, has allowed us toengage more with our peers and
attend to instruction, and thesame is true with the
conversations we've had aroundAI.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Yeah, it's amazing how kids end up rising to a
level when they're engaged andinterested in all that.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
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Speaker 3 (15:04):
So let's talk about scaling a little bit.
Let's talk about differentapplications, I mean, and
particularly getting to the ideathat you've got a lot of
different kinds of kids.
Right, they come out, and thisis where the UDL piece.
But talk more about how you'rethinking about scaling and
particularly meeting the needsof diverse learners, whether
they're neurodivergently diverse, whether they're speaking
(15:26):
another language, you know,whatever the case may be, that's
one of the challenges that wewant to make sure these kinds of
tools are equally accessible toeverybody.
And how are you approachingthat with, you know, integrating
AI at UDL?
Speaker 1 (15:42):
So I think from you, know from a, I think the easiest
way to start with that isprobably from the lesson
planning standpoint.
One of the things with UDL thatwe heard as you know, we're
getting teachers up to speed andgetting them implementing UDL
practices in the classroom isthat it takes a lot of work.
It takes a lot of time to buildthese lessons that work for
everybody.
Utilizing AI, you can do a much.
(16:03):
You can do that much faster.
To do more personalization.
We started working on sometraining with some of our
teachers this year on buildingtheir own AI tools to help them
personalize really down to thestudent level, taking
preferences from the kids on howthey like to learn, what are
the mediums that they like touse to learn with, and then
(16:26):
having teachers be able todesign lessons specifically for
those students.
There's some really positivework going there.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
So when I think about differentiation, some of the
old model or when I say old, thecurrent model is.
Well, take the unit assessmenttest or the growth measure, do
the item analysis?
Look at it right.
So there's this question of thekind of data you would use to
differentiate lessons other thanstudent preference or what you
know.
So what kinds of data gets putin to that conversation so that
(16:57):
the teacher is then using thetool to differentiate
appropriately?
Speaker 1 (17:02):
I think we're still a little.
You know, one of the things thatwe're still unsure on is some
of the data privacy pieces andhow you do this safely, and so
we're trying to do everything wecan to still do it in a manner.
We're working on some toolsthat we think we've figured out
most of the data privacy pieces,and those will roll out next
year.
But for this past year, whatwe've been doing is things like
(17:26):
using nicknames and tying it todata that kids have.
You know, not putting instudent numbers and their you
know, their screening scores orwhat, any of those types of
things, because we're still notcomfortable doing that in any
safe environment.
But we I think we will be nextyear and I think it's a future
of what we're going to seemoving forward, and so, yeah,
(17:47):
we're really working on what arethe kinds of things?
Right now it's more of the, youknow, do you prefer teacher
lecture?
Do you prefer reading this?
Do you prefer watching a video?
You know those kinds of lesssensitive pieces of information
as you're building out lessons.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
Yeah, I think in general.
You know, we know that everyclassroom there's a wide range
of variability, so it's more ofthat proactive.
So differentiation I'm kind ofdifferentiating in the moment
based on the students I have infront of me UDL is really that
more proactive approach to saythat here's the standard we're
working on today and before Istart the lesson, here's a
number of ways that kids canengage in the learning.
(18:25):
So there's a wide range ofoptions for students to engage
in the content that's related tothe standard, then a range of
options for them to demonstratetheir learning.
So it's not the traditional sitand get, I'll do some
differentiation.
Then everyone will produce anessay at the end.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Sit and get, I'll do some differentiation and
everyone will produce an essayat the end.
Yeah, no, that's.
That's interesting, and I dothink that the next level is
going to be this this, the dataprivacy issues to then connect
it to some of the you knowquantitative data we have.
But you'll be well prepared forthat, it sounds like.
So part of what I'm also reallycurious about is the there's a
change management process goingon here.
I'm really curious about that,and I also want to talk about
(19:02):
the policy environment.
So first talk about just likehow you approach this from a
change management perspective,to be seen as something that,
like, you're leaning into, notresisting, and is not just like
one more thing, but it's like,hey, this actually can help us
solve it.
So like, how have you led thechange management aspect?
And then I want to talk alittle bit about policies.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
Okay, I can start.
Yeah, I think that integrationis key, you mean, integrating
into something existing.
So I think to your point ofseeing it as one more thing.
As we started our MTSS work, wetalked about this a little bit
in our presentation today.
Six years ago, udl wasn'treally something we were focused
in on as part of our MTSSframework.
(19:43):
So as we made that, as welearned more about that and
integrated it and it's kind ofnow a foundation of our MTSS
work and teaching and learningas AI became more prevalent, we
decided this cannot be anotherthing in addition to what we're
doing and it really has to beintegrated.
So we're integrating it intothe work that we do.
We're just planning ouradministrative retreat for
(20:05):
August and, rather than havestandalone AI learning, we will
integrate that into everythingthat we do with our principals
and expect that our principalsintegrate that into everything
that they do.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
So it becomes an accelerant almost.
So it becomes an accelerantalmost.
Yeah, so let's actually I'mreally curious about that with
leaders, because I've beenwondering about, at the
leadership level, what kind ofAI tools we should be looking at
to help adults do their workbetter.
Have you all been thinkingabout that?
Yeah, a lot we could do a wholeother podcast on that.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Maybe we should.
Yeah, we're doing a lot of likejust operational work around
that right now, too, should.
Um, yeah, we're we're doing alot of like just operational
work around that right now too.
Um, trying to get.
One of the big things, when youstart really digging into how
you're going to make changeacross your entire organization
and utilize ai is how do youprepare all of your data across
the entire organization to makeit accessible?
Um, so, there's a lot of workthat we're doing now, um,
(20:55):
specifically operationaldepartments, moving things in
the right places so that we canbuild upon that.
Um, so, yeah, it's, it's.
It's a big change, and one youhave to lead everywhere,
throughout the entireorganization.
One of the things I wanted totalk about as far as change is
concerned is you know, we'vetaken this ai and we've looked
at it a little differently thanwe historically have.
(21:17):
Um, some of that we alluded toearlier.
With the financial constraintswe're in right now, normally we
would say, all right, this iswhat we're doing, we're going to
bring in speakers, we're goingto get people trained, we're
going to do that, and we don'thave that ability right now, and
so we're trying to figure outhow to lead with teachers being
passionate about it and we'reseeing huge uptake and so, you
(21:39):
know, because we also have thisfocus with our teachers
association around teacherwellness this year.
So what can we do to reduceworkload, reduce burnout, reduce
stress, and, you know, some ofthese AI tools can really help
teachers, you know, save a lotof the time, of some of the
minutia that they have to do fortheir jobs, and so that's been
a huge.
(21:59):
I think that's a huge.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
one of the huge reasons why teachers are
embracing it so much is becausethey can see it and see the
actual reduction in some of thethings they have to do and the
fact that the reading too rightis so powerful, because what
we've seen and I won't go deepinto James C Scott's book around
the seeing like a state, butthere are all of these examples
of how people at the top, orpeople you know, think that
(22:22):
something's going to work andthe people at the ground are
like this isn't going to work.
And when you engage them, youactually design a much better
solution.
So let's talk about policy fora minute, because that is
something that when I talk tosuperintendents and CAOs around
the country you know and I say,what are you doing with AI?
They're like well, we're notletting kids use ChatGPT.
No one wants us to cheat.
You've taken a totallydifferent approach.
(22:42):
So talk a little bit about howyou constructed kind of a policy
environment and guidelinesaround this.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
I'll let Chris speak to that.
I mean, I think a big focus forus from the teaching and
learning standpoint has been theethical use of AI.
Chris was kind of a leader inthat respect in terms of
generating some philosophy andbelief statements around AI last
year.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
So philosophy and belief statements Talk about
that we had pulled teachers outof the classroom a couple times
last spring and they said youknow what?
We really need the district tocome together and say something
going into next year about whatdo you believe AI should be in
the classroom?
Speaker 3 (23:16):
So like your values and so like any good
technologist I took.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
There wasn't a lot written at the time.
So you asked ChatGPT.
I absolutely did and I'll tellyou how.
So right then it was about thetime when the US Department of
Ed came out with their Teachingand Learning with AI document.
Cosen and the Council of GreatCity Schools had put out another
document on AI in education,and so I read through those,
picked out the highlights thatwere important, and then I took
all of the highlights and put itin chat GPT and said come up
with a rough draft of this, youknow, as far as a school
(23:46):
district belief statement aroundAI in the classroom.
And so we then took that, ofcourse, that rough draft, and,
you know, ran it throughteaching and learning staff and
then back to the teachers andsaid what do you think?
And then we all everybody madesome edits and that's what we
published this year and then onour website you can actually see
the citations of theconversations from chat GPT to
(24:07):
how we got to where we are, soyou can follow along the whole
thing.
And that has led to a lot ofother assistance we've been
providing both in our state andnationally.
We've, you know we're thatprinciples and belief statement
is used in, I think, at least 10different states across the
country.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
It's awesome.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yeah, I keep getting Google alerts from other
districts that are justcrediting us and adopting it.
Almost standard.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
What I love about your story, though, is that you
started with your own sharedvalues and to say, ok, here's
the shared values of ourdistrict and here's our beliefs
about what it should be, andthen you build the policy on top
of it.
That's really powerful.
So if people are just taking itfrom you rather than doing it
on their own, it may actuallymiss the mark, frankly.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Yeah, it might, but there's a lot of superintendents
that will call us and say, hey,where do we start?
And I'm like you know there's alot of superintendents that
will call us and say, hey, wheredo we start?
And I'm like you know what?
If nothing else, just take theone off our website and take
that one, Just get started Speakat model schools.
There you go, that's it Allright.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
So we're going to wrap up.
I just have one question andthen one bonus question.
Well, actually two quickquestions what's been the
biggest surprise or or learningthat you've had, like
realization that they've had indoing this?
Um, and what is like just aquick advice you have for others
other than just, you know,download your principles like
(25:31):
what, what's so, what, what'sbeen the biggest surprise and
what advice do you have forothers?
And then I have a quick bonusquestion for you.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
Want to go first.
Sure, I think.
Biggest surprise I did notrealize how effective this would
be in terms of, as we startedour UDL work, really integrating
with UDL, and we've just seenteachers and I think primarily
of our, some of our specialeducation teachers really
utilize this as a way to beinclusive and create more
(25:59):
inclusive learning environments,working alongside general
education teachers for ourstudents with disabilities, and
that's happened within a 12month period.
So that was surprised me, apleasant, pleasant surprise.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
All right, chris.
What's?
What's been the biggestsurprise?
Speaker 1 (26:14):
I think teacher adoption really, once they once
they see just a little bit ofhow it can help, how deeply
they'll jump in and dig into itOnce you open the door and say,
yeah, we want you to do this,feel free to explore and figure
this out, and how quickly anddeeply our teachers will embrace
(26:36):
it and figure out.
You know what's going to workin their classroom and they
really appreciate being a partof the conversation as we're
building it, because nobodyreally knows what two weeks down
the road or two months down theroad or two years down the road
is going to be.
But if you're digging in nowand taking part now, you can
help build what that's going tolook like two years from now.
So you can be a part of thoseconversations.
(26:58):
And so I think our teachersreally have embraced that moving
forward Right.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
So what's your one word of advice for folks who are
dipping their toe in the AIwater?
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Get started.
You got to get started.
There's still so many peoplethat call and want to know how
to get started and there's noroadmap.
So just figure, just trysomething.
Something you're not going tohurt anybody if you don't get it
right the first time you learnthe work by doing the work.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
Yeah, yeah, I'd say the same thing don't be afraid
to get started.
You will make mistakes and andlearn from those and um continue
to build capacity.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
But you have to start somewhere all right, quick
bonus question what is the mostjoyous thing you saw in schools
this year?
Speaker 1 (27:42):
I would say we just did a tour with our Washington
Association of SchoolAdministrators one of their
leaders who's going to beleading AI work and we toured a
bunch of classrooms and just thejoy on kids' face when
something clicks for them thathas never clicked before, be
that in a high school resourceclassroom or even in an
elementary classroom Just thingsthat have never really made
(28:05):
sense and the use of AI hashelped them to just finally have
something.
Just finally click and go ohyeah, I get it now, it's just
that light bulb.
What about you?
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Yeah, you've got a little more time to think about
it.
Yeah, I know it's hard tochoose.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
With the end of the school year, it's been, you know
, a couple of weeks of reallybeing out in buildings and then
of your graduations andcelebrations, and I'm thinking
to the, you know, just seeingsome of the highlights from some
of our schools.
At one of our elementaryschools, a group of students
with their teacher released aballoon up into the atmosphere
and just seeing the kids out inthe field and the celebration
around that and the curiosityand there was that paired with
(28:40):
kind of you know it's the lastweek of school and field days
and so just a great way to wrapup the school year.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Yeah, those are fun.
Well look, chris John, thankyou for joining me today in this
episode of Teachers in America.
Great conversation, a lot forpeople to learn.
I love it.
Just get started right.
Just start doing.
It Sounds like you all I knowyou're all doing really cutting
edge work, so I appreciate yousharing it with us and glad to
see you at the conference andwe'll keep talking.
So thanks for joining me today,thank you, thank you,
(29:06):
appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
If you or someone you know would like to be a guest
on the Teachers in Americapodcast, please email us at
shaped.
At hmhcocom.
That's S-H-A-P-E-D.
At HMHCOcom.
Be the first to hear newepisodes of Teachers in America
by subscribing on Apple Podcasts, spotify or wherever you get
your podcasts.
If you enjoyed today's show,please rate, review and share it
(29:32):
with your network.
You can find the transcript ofthis episode on our Shaped blog
by visiting HMHCOcom.
Forward slash shaped.
That's HMHCOcom.
Forward slash S-h-a-p-e-d.
The link is in the show notes.
The Teachers in America podcastis a production of HMH.
Thank you to the productionteam of Christine Condon, tim
Lee, jennifer Guadalupe, mio Fry, thomas Velasquez and Matt
(29:56):
Howell.
Thanks again for listening.
What can we do to reduce workload, reduce burnout,
reduce stress, and some ofthese AI tools can really help
teachers save a lot of the time,of some of the minutia that
they have to do for their jobs,and so that's been a huge.
I think that's one of the hugereasons why teachers are
embracing it so much is becausethey can see it.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
From paper and pencil to Wi-Fi and AI.
Education is ever-evolving.
On this new season of Teachersin America, we'll keep you on
the forefront of what's new.
We connect with teachers and edleaders to talk trending topics
and real issues, bringing youinspiring ideas that will
influence the future of yourteaching.
Today, we're excited to welcomeDr Josh Starr to the Teachers
(00:41):
in America team.
Josh comes with a leadershipbackground, having served as a
superintendent of schools, andis currently a managing partner
for the Center for Model Schools.
This past summer, at the ModelSchools Conference, josh had a
chance to connect with PeninsulaSchool District leaders, chief
Information Officer Chris Hageland Chief Academic Officer John
Yeddlelees, who together aremaking education more inclusive
(01:03):
using artificial intelligence.
In this episode, they'lldiscuss how to integrate AI into
the classroom and sharestrategies for using it
ethically.
Now here's Josh, chris and John.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
So, john and Chris, thank you for joining me.
So first, how are you enjoyingthe conference?
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I would say the strong focus on pedagogy in all
of the sessions and throughouthas been really impressive to
see so far.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yeah.
So that's great, and that'swhat we try to do is focus on
teaching and learning.
So this is where I think thatyou have something to teach us
about how you can use AI toactually improve teaching and
learning, because what I've beenseeing in the conversation
oftentimes is people may be alittle afraid of it that it's
going to somehow hurt teachingand learning, because what I've
been seeing in the conversationoftentimes is people may be a
little afraid of it, that it'sgoing to somehow hurt teaching
(01:48):
and learning, but you all havetaken a different approach.
This could actually elevate andimprove teaching and learning
and take it to the next level.
So talk about what you've beendoing in the district.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Sure.
So we started out.
We actually had teachers thatwere working through some
learning around AI even beforeChatGPT got out.
So in the spring of 22, we hada cohort of teachers that were
taking some facilitatedprofessional learning through
ISTE on some of the AI toolsthat were available at that time
(02:19):
.
And we look back at them nowand they were pretty rudimentary
at the time but they reallyseemed like they were the
forefront of Like what kind oftools?
Just some very, very basic textgeneration or image creation
tools, more on the machinelearning side of artificial
intelligence, so things thatmachines can learn from the data
that's out there.
It was really just a dip ourtoe in to see what's going on,
(02:42):
to make sure that we're stayingin front of what might be coming
.
But at that time I think wethought we were.
We were looking at somethingthat was going to impact us five
years down the road, not threemonths down the road.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
So, but you had you said you had teachers that sort
of started doing it.
So has this been a teacher ledinitiative or is just in
collaboration with teachers?
Cause it's always powerful, I,when leaders at the central
office level are saying, hey,let's actually see what real
live teachers in real liveclassrooms are doing.
So talk a little bit about thatprocess of how you've gotten
teachers involved.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Sure.
So yeah, we're kind of in aninteresting place where,
unfortunately for us and ourdistrict, we had to make some
significant budget cuts lastyear and so we lost a lot of our
central office instructionalfacilitation.
A lot of those people were putback in the classroom because we
needed to cut about 8% of ourbudget, and so we've relied
(03:33):
really on this being ateacher-led initiative.
I mean, we steer it and guideit in a certain direction, but
for the most part it's taken onby a group of, I would say, 30
to 35 teachers in our districtthat really are passionate about
it and see the future, and thenwe just kind of help make sure
it goes in the right direction,as they, you know, they start
talking and developing andthinking through what this looks
(03:54):
like in the classroom.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Yeah, it's interesting how the crisis of a
budget cut can create anopportunity, right?
So, john, is the CAO right?
How were you, if Chris isstarting to come to you and say,
hey, teachers are starting todo this interesting stuff?
And you got to report to thesuperintendent and the board and
you got to think about, okay,let's bring some sense and order
to this so that people aren'tjust doing whatever they want
(04:16):
with this new tool that we stilldon't really know what it's
going to do.
So how did you then approachhow AI should fit into, sort of
the larger environment of theschool system?
Speaker 4 (04:27):
Yeah, well, I think it really fits nicely with our
work around UDL.
We've had an initiative for thepast six years, I believe.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
And for UDL.
Just talk a little bit aboutwhat UDL is Universal Design for
Learning.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
So it's really providing students multiple
means to access content, toengage in the content, represent
their learning.
So as part of a broader MTSSinitiative that we started about
six years ago, we started aweave in UDL as really a means
for all students to accesscontent grade level content in a
meaningful way.
So the more we were working onUDL and as AI emerged as a
(04:58):
potential tool to really helpthat and provide teachers with
that, that's kind of where theintegration occurred and where
the connection with teaching andlearning really took place and
what?
Speaker 3 (05:08):
what was the response ?
I mean, what were?
So you got?
You got your sort of leadingedge teachers who are saying,
hey, we got to do some stuffwith this, guys, let's make it
happen.
Then you got others who areprobably sitting there like I
can't deal with one more thing,right.
So how have you been able to?
What was the response?
You started integrating thiswith udl and started rolling
things out.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
I think there's definitely, as in all cases,
some early adopters and thosethat are a little more reluctant
and kind of this too shall pass, kind of mentality.
And as we began that work thistime last year really was
engaging in professionallearning with our teaching staff
, that prior connection, thatprior work we'd done around UDL
and some of the resources thatwe've since provided to teachers
(05:46):
that are pretty accessible foreducational purposes around.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
AI, but how do you deal with quality control?
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, so that's one of the things and I don't want
to speak for John's whole team,but I know I talk to them quite
a bit and that you know in thoseconversations we've been having
, is this just another problemthat we're generating?
for ourselves now with all ofthis content.
That's not as quality.
It's a little different, though, because you know teachers are
actually targeting towards ourcurriculum, targeting towards
(06:14):
the standards that we need to bemeeting, not just, you know,
downloading the neat coolworksheet out there, and so you
know we've, we have some morework to do, and I know that his
team is working on that and howwe'd vet some of this content.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
But yeah, it's.
I think Chris and his team havedone some great work in
professional learning aroundprompt that so say, for example,
if we're utilizing that or adifferent tool to generate a
(06:48):
behavior plan for a student, forexample, the prompt engineering
piece and what we're puttinginto AI is critical, but then
sitting down and reviewing whatthat spits out in terms of, in
this case, a behavior plan, withthe entire team and those who
have expertise around the tableis critical.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Right, I've been, as I've been diving into AI a
little more and reading EthanMollick stuff and Ezra Klein did
some great podcasts that kindof introduced me to some of it.
This notion of prompting I'mkind of obsessed with this
notion of prompt engineering,because it seemed like the
intentionality anddeliberateness of understanding
the question you want to ask andthe problem you're trying to
(07:23):
solve is, to me, what seems tobe the real power of AI, not
just the ability to spitinformation out.
So like I'm curious how youactually teach people, how you
teach adults that, and I'm alsocurious about the application
for kids for that.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah, so there's been some good work out on this.
Like I took and transformed a acourse that a professor from
Vanderbilt put together onprompt engineering and I took
that and his course was 10 hourslong and I took it and brought
it down to four hours for ourcabinet and we did that for
adults.
And then I had one and then oneof our AI teacher or teachers
(08:00):
that have been really passionateabout AI he took my work and
then moved it down to a 45minute lesson that he could do
in a staff meeting, if you knowwhen the principal gave him 45
minutes.
So you know, it's, it's a skilland it's also, you know, we
have a lot we're having a lot ofconversations about.
You know, is this somethingthat's a skill that we're going
to need for a long time, or isthis a skill that we're going to
(08:21):
need for a little time, like asAI gets better, or is this
still going to be something weneed For right now?
It sure looks like it, and sowe're trying to teach it to
teachers who are trying to then,you know, teach it to staff.
There's some great resourcesout there.
There's organizations that areputting out some really nice
frameworks around writing goodprompts easy for teachers to
understand, to follow and figureout how to you know out how to
(08:43):
write a good prompt to get agood response back.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Right, right, I mean one of the things I've been
thinking about.
You know, when the coding crazestarted 15 years ago and coding
could be the next coal mining.
I think about that with promptengineering, like, how do you
keep people understanding thatthis is going to be generative?
Right, it's going to constantlybe new.
We've got to constantly be ontop of it.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Yeah, there's a topic or there's a conversation going
on right now that I think isreally going to be fascinating
to watch over the next year, andthat's whether I guess, to say
it the easiest way is the nextcoding language going to be
English, Because that's what itseems like it's going towards.
Maybe it's not the nuts andbolts of where to put colons and
commas and everything in aprogramming language, but how to
(09:27):
really say something in veryclear and detailed language to
get AI to do what you want it todo.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
So a totally different kind of literacy, yeah
.
So how do you, if that's thecase?
So this is where I'm curious,like, and from the CAO
perspective, when you thinkingabout more broadly so how do you
start integrating that kind ofthinking into teaching and
learning and curriculum for kidsso they can, because they're
going to be the ones that aredoing it in 2035 and 2040 and
(09:55):
2050 and 2060, right, andthey're going to be doing a year
region in the Seattle area,right, where you've got a lot of
tech.
So how do you teach kids tostart?
Speaker 4 (10:03):
thinking that way.
Well, you can chime in on thistoo, chris but I think on a
smaller scale that's what someof our teachers have been doing.
So we've involved some teachersin some professional learning
over the past year, year and ahalf and some of the same
modules that Chris was talkingabout in terms of those that we
administered to our leadershipteam, principals and others.
Teachers are then taking thatprompt engineering piece and
(10:23):
working with their kids.
So we have a teacher at one ofour middle schools, for example,
who is working with kids andstudents on that prompt
engineering piece.
So what do you put into chat,gtp to get the response that
you're looking for, and reallykind of analyzing that and
working through that withstudents, not just the final
product but the work that leadsup to that final product, say
for a social studies assignmentthat might be administered.
(10:46):
So, on a small scale, ourteachers are working on that.
Those that we've been meetingwith are really, again, pioneers
in this field but have talkedwith us quite a bit about how do
we expand this more broadly sothat all of our staff are
getting same professionallearning, and that time for
professional learning andexpanding that training is
really kind of the challengethat we face now so what's,
(11:07):
what's been the response fromkids?
Speaker 3 (11:09):
and I'm also curious about the response from parents
too, if you've seen anythingwith it yeah, chris can speak to
that.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
He did some um.
Great sir gathered some greatsurvey data last year on that
very topic yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
So, um, we we did when we, when we started
bringing teachers together lastyear, we really wanted to
collect data and get feedbackfrom the teachers on how this is
going and with the kids on howit's going.
Kids have, of course, they havekind of an excitement, but also
a hesitancy.
We're also starting to see morethis year of a Some of the kids
(11:42):
really being thoughtful about.
You know, I really want thethings that I write to make sure
that they sound like me and Idon't want to be the one that
uses, you know, just doing thisbecause it's the easy way out.
So you kind of get the bothsides of that coin.
You know, some kids really justwant to get their project done
and get it, or it's like theyalways have.
There's others that are reallybecoming a little bit more
(12:03):
resistant to using AI in somecases because they want to make
sure that their voice is heardand that they you know what they
say and what they turn in orwhat they.
You know, a lot of kids werelast year were thinking like, oh
, I'm just going to use this onmy college applications, I'm
going to use this for everythingthat I just need to turn in and
get it over with.
And now kids are kind ofrolling that back and saying, no
, I want to, I want to, I wantto do a better job than what I'm
(12:25):
going to get.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
That's fascinating, Right Cause so that and I want
to make sure I get this right soso, the assumptions that we as
adults have about how kids mightuse it cheating oh my gosh.
Oh, it's easy.
You're actually seeingsomething different because,
like no, I want my voice to beincluded.
I think it's really fascinating.
So do you have student voice inhow you think about all this?
(12:48):
Do you engage kids in it?
Because, again, I think it'softentimes as adults, our
assumptions about how kids areactually going to respond and
what they're thinking may betotally different.
So how do you get themactivated and helping you think
this through?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, we've spent a lot, so we did a lot of survey
data last year and then thisyear we've kind of done more on
the focus group side.
We've talked about AI.
Our superintendent has astudent advisory council.
We've done it there.
I've been in meeting withleadership team or teachers and
their kids.
We also have another group ofkids that are going through a
teacher apprenticeship programat the high school and I sit
(13:22):
down with them regularly becausetheir teacher is big and making
sure they're prepared with theAI tools that they're going to
need moving forward, and so Ihave a lot of conversations with
the kids.
That's how we get some of thisfeedback around what is you know
, how are they feeling andwhat's going on.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
I've done some real intentional work at one of our
high schools, our alternativehigh school this year with AI
and UDL, and I think, like Chriswas speaking to that, rather
than surveying that, sittingdown with students, that focus
group type environment, you geta lot of really powerful
feedback from that rather thansending out a survey.
So, um, and we, we utilize thatas we as we move forward.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
So what's?
Speaker 4 (13:54):
but what was like most surprising that the kids
said said to you in this I think, like Chris, was alluding to
just that desire to have theirown voice come through, rather
than it be something generatedfor them on behalf of them.
So I think that and we've, youknow, done some other innovative
work in the district aroundcell phone usage and or lack
thereof, and we make assumptionsas adults that this is not what
(14:15):
, you know, students want.
But when you actually sit downwith kids, whether it's the AI
or the cell phone piece, thereports we get back are you know
, this is great.
We having not having cellphones, for example, in the
classroom, has allowed us toengage more with our peers and
attend to instruction, and thesame is true with the
conversations we've had aroundAI.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Yeah, it's amazing how kids end up rising to a
level when they're engaged andinterested in all that.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Learn about more leading edge ideas and best
practices at the 2025 ModelSchools Conference.
Join us from June 22nd to the25th in Washington DC to hear
from epic educators, modelschools and innovative districts
from across the country.
Come out and connect with acommunity of dedicated educators
just like you.
Be sure to secure spots for youand your team today.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
So let's talk about scaling a little bit.
Let's talk about differentapplications, I mean, and
particularly getting to the ideathat you've got a lot of
different kinds of kids.
Right, they come out, and thisis where the UDL piece.
But talk more about how you'rethinking about scaling and
particularly meeting the needsof diverse learners, whether
they're neurodivergently diverse, whether they're speaking
(15:26):
another language, you know,whatever the case may be, that's
one of the challenges that wewant to make sure these kinds of
tools are equally accessible toeverybody.
And how are you approachingthat with, you know, integrating
AI at UDL?
Speaker 1 (15:42):
So I think from you, know from a, I think the easiest
way to start with that isprobably from the lesson
planning standpoint.
One of the things with UDL thatwe heard as you know, we're
getting teachers up to speed andgetting them implementing UDL
practices in the classroom isthat it takes a lot of work.
It takes a lot of time to buildthese lessons that work for
everybody.
Utilizing AI, you can do a much.
(16:03):
You can do that much faster.
To do more personalization.
We started working on sometraining with some of our
teachers this year on buildingtheir own AI tools to help them
personalize really down to thestudent level, taking
preferences from the kids on howthey like to learn, what are
the mediums that they like touse to learn with, and then
(16:26):
having teachers be able todesign lessons specifically for
those students.
There's some really positivework going there.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
So when I think about differentiation, some of the
old model or when I say old, thecurrent model is.
Well, take the unit assessmenttest or the growth measure, do
the item analysis?
Look at it right.
So there's this question of thekind of data you would use to
differentiate lessons other thanstudent preference or what you
know.
So what kinds of data gets putin to that conversation so that
(16:57):
the teacher is then using thetool to differentiate
appropriately?
Speaker 1 (17:02):
I think we're still a little.
You know, one of the things thatwe're still unsure on is some
of the data privacy pieces andhow you do this safely, and so
we're trying to do everything wecan to still do it in a manner.
We're working on some toolsthat we think we've figured out
most of the data privacy pieces,and those will roll out next
year.
But for this past year, whatwe've been doing is things like
(17:26):
using nicknames and tying it todata that kids have.
You know, not putting instudent numbers and their you
know, their screening scores orwhat, any of those types of
things, because we're still notcomfortable doing that in any
safe environment.
But we I think we will be nextyear and I think it's a future
of what we're going to seemoving forward, and so, yeah,
(17:47):
we're really working on what arethe kinds of things?
Right now it's more of the, youknow, do you prefer teacher
lecture?
Do you prefer reading this?
Do you prefer watching a video?
You know those kinds of lesssensitive pieces of information
as you're building out lessons.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
Yeah, I think in general.
You know, we know that everyclassroom there's a wide range
of variability, so it's more ofthat proactive.
So differentiation I'm kind ofdifferentiating in the moment
based on the students I have infront of me UDL is really that
more proactive approach to saythat here's the standard we're
working on today and before Istart the lesson, here's a
number of ways that kids canengage in the learning.
(18:25):
So there's a wide range ofoptions for students to engage
in the content that's related tothe standard, then a range of
options for them to demonstratetheir learning.
So it's not the traditional sitand get, I'll do some
differentiation.
Then everyone will produce anessay at the end.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Sit and get, I'll do some differentiation and
everyone will produce an essayat the end.
Yeah, no, that's.
That's interesting, and I dothink that the next level is
going to be this this, the dataprivacy issues to then connect
it to some of the you knowquantitative data we have.
But you'll be well prepared forthat, it sounds like.
So part of what I'm also reallycurious about is the there's a
change management process goingon here.
I'm really curious about that,and I also want to talk about
(19:02):
the policy environment.
So first talk about just likehow you approach this from a
change management perspective,to be seen as something that,
like, you're leaning into, notresisting, and is not just like
one more thing, but it's like,hey, this actually can help us
solve it.
So like, how have you led thechange management aspect?
And then I want to talk alittle bit about policies.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
Okay, I can start.
Yeah, I think that integrationis key, you mean, integrating
into something existing.
So I think to your point ofseeing it as one more thing.
As we started our MTSS work, wetalked about this a little bit
in our presentation today.
Six years ago, udl wasn'treally something we were focused
in on as part of our MTSSframework.
(19:43):
So as we made that, as welearned more about that and
integrated it and it's kind ofnow a foundation of our MTSS
work and teaching and learningas AI became more prevalent, we
decided this cannot be anotherthing in addition to what we're
doing and it really has to beintegrated.
So we're integrating it intothe work that we do.
We're just planning ouradministrative retreat for
(20:05):
August and, rather than havestandalone AI learning, we will
integrate that into everythingthat we do with our principals
and expect that our principalsintegrate that into everything
that they do.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
So it becomes an accelerant almost.
So it becomes an accelerantalmost.
Yeah, so let's actually I'mreally curious about that with
leaders, because I've beenwondering about, at the
leadership level, what kind ofAI tools we should be looking at
to help adults do their workbetter.
Have you all been thinkingabout that?
Yeah, a lot we could do a wholeother podcast on that.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Maybe we should.
Yeah, we're doing a lot of likejust operational work around
that right now, too, should.
Um, yeah, we're we're doing alot of like just operational
work around that right now too.
Um, trying to get.
One of the big things, when youstart really digging into how
you're going to make changeacross your entire organization
and utilize ai is how do youprepare all of your data across
the entire organization to makeit accessible?
Um, so, there's a lot of workthat we're doing now, um,
(20:55):
specifically operationaldepartments, moving things in
the right places so that we canbuild upon that.
Um, so, yeah, it's, it's.
It's a big change, and one youhave to lead everywhere,
throughout the entireorganization.
One of the things I wanted totalk about as far as change is
concerned is you know, we'vetaken this ai and we've looked
at it a little differently thanwe historically have.
(21:17):
Um, some of that we alluded toearlier.
With the financial constraintswe're in right now, normally we
would say, all right, this iswhat we're doing, we're going to
bring in speakers, we're goingto get people trained, we're
going to do that, and we don'thave that ability right now, and
so we're trying to figure outhow to lead with teachers being
passionate about it and we'reseeing huge uptake and so, you
(21:39):
know, because we also have thisfocus with our teachers
association around teacherwellness this year.
So what can we do to reduceworkload, reduce burnout, reduce
stress, and, you know, some ofthese AI tools can really help
teachers, you know, save a lotof the time, of some of the
minutia that they have to do fortheir jobs, and so that's been
a huge.
(21:59):
I think that's a huge.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
one of the huge reasons why teachers are
embracing it so much is becausethey can see it and see the
actual reduction in some of thethings they have to do and the
fact that the reading too rightis so powerful, because what
we've seen and I won't go deepinto James C Scott's book around
the seeing like a state, butthere are all of these examples
of how people at the top, orpeople you know, think that
(22:22):
something's going to work andthe people at the ground are
like this isn't going to work.
And when you engage them, youactually design a much better
solution.
So let's talk about policy fora minute, because that is
something that when I talk tosuperintendents and CAOs around
the country you know and I say,what are you doing with AI?
They're like well, we're notletting kids use ChatGPT.
No one wants us to cheat.
You've taken a totallydifferent approach.
(22:42):
So talk a little bit about howyou constructed kind of a policy
environment and guidelinesaround this.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
I'll let Chris speak to that.
I mean, I think a big focus forus from the teaching and
learning standpoint has been theethical use of AI.
Chris was kind of a leader inthat respect in terms of
generating some philosophy andbelief statements around AI last
year.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
So philosophy and belief statements Talk about
that we had pulled teachers outof the classroom a couple times
last spring and they said youknow what?
We really need the district tocome together and say something
going into next year about whatdo you believe AI should be in
the classroom?
Speaker 3 (23:16):
So like your values and so like any good
technologist I took.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
There wasn't a lot written at the time.
So you asked ChatGPT.
I absolutely did and I'll tellyou how.
So right then it was about thetime when the US Department of
Ed came out with their Teachingand Learning with AI document.
Cosen and the Council of GreatCity Schools had put out another
document on AI in education,and so I read through those,
picked out the highlights thatwere important, and then I took
all of the highlights and put itin chat GPT and said come up
with a rough draft of this, youknow, as far as a school
(23:46):
district belief statement aroundAI in the classroom.
And so we then took that, ofcourse, that rough draft, and,
you know, ran it throughteaching and learning staff and
then back to the teachers andsaid what do you think?
And then we all everybody madesome edits and that's what we
published this year and then onour website you can actually see
the citations of theconversations from chat GPT to
(24:07):
how we got to where we are, soyou can follow along the whole
thing.
And that has led to a lot ofother assistance we've been
providing both in our state andnationally.
We've, you know we're thatprinciples and belief statement
is used in, I think, at least 10different states across the
country.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
It's awesome.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yeah, I keep getting Google alerts from other
districts that are justcrediting us and adopting it.
Almost standard.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
What I love about your story, though, is that you
started with your own sharedvalues and to say, ok, here's
the shared values of ourdistrict and here's our beliefs
about what it should be, andthen you build the policy on top
of it.
That's really powerful.
So if people are just taking itfrom you rather than doing it
on their own, it may actuallymiss the mark, frankly.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Yeah, it might, but there's a lot of superintendents
that will call us and say, hey,where do we start?
And I'm like you know there's alot of superintendents that
will call us and say, hey, wheredo we start?
And I'm like you know what?
If nothing else, just take theone off our website and take
that one, Just get started Speakat model schools.
There you go, that's it Allright.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
So we're going to wrap up.
I just have one question andthen one bonus question.
Well, actually two quickquestions what's been the
biggest surprise or or learningthat you've had, like
realization that they've had indoing this?
Um, and what is like just aquick advice you have for others
other than just, you know,download your principles like
(25:31):
what, what's so, what, what'sbeen the biggest surprise and
what advice do you have forothers?
And then I have a quick bonusquestion for you.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
Want to go first.
Sure, I think.
Biggest surprise I did notrealize how effective this would
be in terms of, as we startedour UDL work, really integrating
with UDL, and we've just seenteachers and I think primarily
of our, some of our specialeducation teachers really
utilize this as a way to beinclusive and create more
(25:59):
inclusive learning environments,working alongside general
education teachers for ourstudents with disabilities, and
that's happened within a 12month period.
So that was surprised me, apleasant, pleasant surprise.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
All right, chris.
What's?
What's been the biggestsurprise?
Speaker 1 (26:14):
I think teacher adoption really, once they once
they see just a little bit ofhow it can help, how deeply
they'll jump in and dig into itOnce you open the door and say,
yeah, we want you to do this,feel free to explore and figure
this out, and how quickly anddeeply our teachers will embrace
(26:36):
it and figure out.
You know what's going to workin their classroom and they
really appreciate being a partof the conversation as we're
building it, because nobodyreally knows what two weeks down
the road or two months down theroad or two years down the road
is going to be.
But if you're digging in nowand taking part now, you can
help build what that's going tolook like two years from now.
So you can be a part of thoseconversations.
(26:58):
And so I think our teachersreally have embraced that moving
forward Right.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
So what's your one word of advice for folks who are
dipping their toe in the AIwater?
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Get started.
You got to get started.
There's still so many peoplethat call and want to know how
to get started and there's noroadmap.
So just figure, just trysomething.
Something you're not going tohurt anybody if you don't get it
right the first time you learnthe work by doing the work.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
Yeah, yeah, I'd say the same thing don't be afraid
to get started.
You will make mistakes and andlearn from those and um continue
to build capacity.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
But you have to start somewhere all right, quick
bonus question what is the mostjoyous thing you saw in schools
this year?
Speaker 1 (27:42):
I would say we just did a tour with our Washington
Association of SchoolAdministrators one of their
leaders who's going to beleading AI work and we toured a
bunch of classrooms and just thejoy on kids' face when
something clicks for them thathas never clicked before, be
that in a high school resourceclassroom or even in an
elementary classroom Just thingsthat have never really made
(28:05):
sense and the use of AI hashelped them to just finally have
something.
Just finally click and go ohyeah, I get it now, it's just
that light bulb.
What about you?
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Yeah, you've got a little more time to think about
it.
Yeah, I know it's hard tochoose.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
With the end of the school year, it's been, you know
, a couple of weeks of reallybeing out in buildings and then
of your graduations andcelebrations, and I'm thinking
to the, you know, just seeingsome of the highlights from some
of our schools.
At one of our elementaryschools, a group of students
with their teacher released aballoon up into the atmosphere
and just seeing the kids out inthe field and the celebration
around that and the curiosityand there was that paired with
(28:40):
kind of you know it's the lastweek of school and field days
and so just a great way to wrapup the school year.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Yeah, those are fun.
Well look, chris John, thankyou for joining me today in this
episode of Teachers in America.
Great conversation, a lot forpeople to learn.
I love it.
Just get started right.
Just start doing.
It Sounds like you all I knowyou're all doing really cutting
edge work, so I appreciate yousharing it with us and glad to
see you at the conference andwe'll keep talking.
So thanks for joining me today,thank you, thank you,
(29:06):
appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
If you or someone you know would like to be a guest
on the Teachers in Americapodcast, please email us at
shaped.
At hmhcocom.
That's S-H-A-P-E-D.
At HMHCOcom.
Be the first to hear newepisodes of Teachers in America
by subscribing on Apple Podcasts, spotify or wherever you get
your podcasts.
If you enjoyed today's show,please rate, review and share it
(29:32):
with your network.
You can find the transcript ofthis episode on our Shaped blog
by visiting HMHCOcom.
Forward slash shaped.
That's HMHCOcom.
Forward slash S-h-a-p-e-d.
The link is in the show notes.
The Teachers in America podcastis a production of HMH.
Thank you to the productionteam of Christine Condon, tim
Lee, jennifer Guadalupe, mio Fry, thomas Velasquez and Matt
(29:56):
Howell.
Thanks again for listening.
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