Dangerous Liaisons (1988) - Deep Dish Pizza, Human Desks & a Catalog of Incompetence - That Aged Well

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You know that expression, I don't know what art is,
but I know when I see it. Yeah, I want
to I want to coin the flip side of that
and that I I don't know what art is, but
I know when I don't see it.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
You know, you know what not art is.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
I know what not art is, Paul. It was recently
in a very famous museum, Okay, modern art museum, Okay,
and I wandered into a room with it with the
video installation piece.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Okay, Hi, wide open song in my heart, just put
art into my system, just let me have.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
It, and pointed that at that person. Ever, so, the
overall exhibit was about nature and like human beings interaction
with nature. Most of the artists chose to go dark,
how we're destroying the planet and blah blah blah, and
like which fair, fair, a fair?

Speaker 2 (00:54):
We are a cancer on the earth.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
Some of it was absolutely art. It was beautiful. And
then I wandered into this when this person was like,
I'm going to take a different tack here.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
Uh huh.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
I wandered into and I'm apologize in advance. I'm going
to murder some words here.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
The artist's name is jengbo I believe they're from China.
They coined a term terra doophilia. Terra doophilia, okay, yeah, terotophilia,
which is, according to Google here, the concept of intimate relationships,
particularly sexual ones with ferns.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
With women named fern. No no, no, no, no no.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Because they don't really exist in China.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Not anymore, and really it's fallen out of use.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
I feel like the name fern has really fallen out
of use in Beijing. This, this artist forced me to watch.
Didn't force me. I could have walked out any moment,
but I was Honestly.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
I was so intrigued. You were frozen like a deer
in headlights.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
Two men wandering in the woods fucking ferns.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
Are you saying are you saying that that that terodophilia
is the title of their sex tape?

Speaker 1 (01:56):
Is the title of their sex tape? That, like the
museum was like, girl, this is art. I would like
to I would like to push.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
Back on that, like to strongly vote no.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
I would like to say no. And by the way,
that term that I just said is coined by the artist. Okay,
it did not exist prior to this piece of art
being created, which makes me think this is not a thing.
And now, not only did the fern not consent.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
Certainly not enthusiastical, I.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
Have become somehow implicated in the actions I saw in
this film and the assault on the fern and the
assault on the ferns.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, I'm going to push back. I'm going to push back.
Art at its core is trying to make you feel something.
And it sounds like you felt something something. It wasn't arousal,
but it was something.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
I did not feel the same thing fernfucker did.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
Hey, I'm in America and this is that aged Well.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yesterday's Pop Culture Today. You didn't see the fist pumps
to the air that he did.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
I was like white man dancing. I was pointing my
fingers bigger points, which is funny because I usually I
don't dance like a white man.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
And he was doing white man's overbike as well. From
when Harry met Salad.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
That's right, But you know, I just wanted to give
that to you.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
Thank you. Did I say Yesterday's Pop Culture Today? I
blacked out? Maybe say it now, Yesterday's Pop Culture Today?

Speaker 2 (03:29):
Christy was safety do one for fun. It's June.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
It is June. Jane is busting out all over it.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
It means we are mere days from my birthday. Everyone celebrates,
everyone celebrate.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
This is a national.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Holiday, national holiday.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
I'm getting Oh oh, it's not a national.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
It got taken away, a federal holiday, got removed. I'm
not surprised given the way everything's going. It does feel
like the least of the things that could fall. So
I'm okay with it. I'm gonna take I'm gonna take
this one for the team, take me out, take the
out Erica. We have five star Apple podcast reviews. Shall
I read the first one to you? Sure? All right?
This is from MHL twenty sixteen. They write, please review

(04:09):
Shag and Hello Again, the chamber musical by Michael Johnlecusa
starring Donna Murphy made into a movie starring Autro McDonald,
rumor Willis. Do you think that's what they're talking about?

Speaker 1 (04:17):
Hello Again? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah, sure? Sure?

Speaker 1 (04:21):
Is it really?

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Sure, Quio, that's what they're talking about. That's what our
face is saying. Sure, you little backdoor bronco, you magnificent frigate.
That's exactly what they're talking about.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
So gay pride is right around the corner. Really, I
really can't fuck with you today.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
We are in Gay Pride month, all right. So MHL
twenty sixteen writes, I came looking for a podcast that
discussed the legend of Billy Jean and discovered this gem
of a show. I have been trying to make my
way through the archives, but they've covered so many of
my childhood favorite movies. I feel so seen to give
an idea of how much I fall into the target
audience for this podcast. I actually did watch fifteen on

(04:59):
Nickelodeon and it was airing, but it was just no
competition for Swan's crossing. I actually don't know what that is.
Don't know that either, damn. Anyway, the main reason I'm
writing a review, which I don't usually do, is because
I really need you guys to do a show on
Shag the movie. It definitely didn't age well, but I
will always love it. And to give a warning, the
license ran out for a lot of the best songs,
so unless you have a copy of the early VHS editions,

(05:21):
you won't get the full experience. So they're telling us,
when when the time.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
Comes to do Shag, we got to go to eBay.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
Or we got to go to some of the less
legal means, but we used to watch films sometimes that's reputable. Yeah, yeah, exactly,
have to we have to go dark.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
Honestly, I was just thinking, like, even if I bought
a VHS copy, I'd also have to buy a VHA
like a VCR play it.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
And also Hello again, which I'm pretty sure continues as
the tradition of Shelley Long characters having terrible taste in men.
So not the musical I was talking about. Ok, all right, gotcha, gotcha.
I'll be eagerly awaiting your reviews. PS. It's a few
years old now, but just in case no one ever
pointed it out, Michelle Peiffer change from pants that ugly
skirt and grease too because of the school dress code

(06:02):
no pants for girls.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
Oh my god, thank you for following up on us.
I really I do remember that. Also, I believe someone
on Instagram like, yeah, get a comment there.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
You've been told. But I still I love the follow up, like, so.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
Like, you are not alone. If you were annoyed by
my saying that I didn't understand what was going on.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
I will just take this opportunity to say MHL twenty
sixteen shagged. The movie was up for a Patreon pick
one month and it got voted down. It didn't win.
We tried to do it, so you got to join
the Patreon. That's what you have to do.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
I love this. Yeah, way to swing it back to
the show.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
Do you want to read our second review?

Speaker 1 (06:36):
Sure? Second review comes from Marvelette three Gray?

Speaker 2 (06:40):
Is that a reference to Jean Gray from Marvel?

Speaker 1 (06:43):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (06:44):
I love that You're yes ending every want. I want
to know how long this will last?

Speaker 1 (06:48):
This is Jean Gray herself.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
It is It is not only gay Pride month. It's
the week of my birthday and she's trying to be nice.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
Ah. I didn't buy you anything. It is the best
I can do. Yeah, Marvel atte, Gray writes, I've tried
to write this review four times, but it's worth it. Okay,
this is I'm curious what's going on? It's happening with
your computer. They continue, but you're getting the short version.
Great podcast, funny, smart, stays real without losing the delight

(07:20):
of doing bits with your friends.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
Mm.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
Please do mystery Men. Oh I remember Mystery Man. I
saw that in the theater.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
A Mystery Man is a movie that could fit into July.
It could, It'll be too late. For you to request
it at this point, but you know so super glad.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
You brought it up. Mystery Men Stacked cast sort of
predicts the fatal flaws of the superhero movie genre. All right, okay,
I love you, not in a creepy way. Okay, bye bye.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
This says the era of someone whose phone was irritating them.
They tried to write the review and it wasn't posting.
I've been you. I've absolutely been you.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
Marvelett, three Gray, Marvelette, I love you in a creepy way. Yeah,
it is very so create a firm way.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
It's the only way Erica knows how to love. So
if you're gonna be friends, though, you just have to
accept the fact that sometimes you're gonna wake up and
she's gonna be looking at you. Yeah. Yeah, this is
breathing heavily, very close, very close to your face, so close,
too close, too close. But it's from love marvel at
three Gray, m HL twenty sixteen. If you would like
your tote bag, all you gotta do is come claim it.

(08:23):
I will love to send it to you. Erica. We
are in June. We are doing period piece June. That
is not a reference to your mensies, No no, which now? Which?

Speaker 1 (08:32):
Now? Go all month long? I went from zero to
one hundred days a year.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
What is the first period piece that we are doing
this month?

Speaker 1 (08:43):
And now I get something thinking about period? What if
like every movie this month was about.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
Pick menstruation, about menstruation.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
Movie wildly misunderstood the assignment and just sent us like,
are you there, God, it's me Margaret, over and over
and over again.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
Great movie, great movie, great movie.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
Also, there's many other films about menstruation.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
We already did carry set, we already did.

Speaker 1 (09:04):
Carry Legend of Billy Gene as well. Yeah, very great
menstruation scene. Let's talk about this for an hour.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
Let's talk about the moon's cycle.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
Today's film is the nineteen eighty eight romantic drama Dangerous Liaisons.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
Hmm. This was requested by Angie, Luis, Jan Spencer, Nick Parker,
Karen jen and Nicole. Dangerous Liaisons was written by Christopher
Hampton from his nineteen eighty five play of the same name,
which was itself adapted from the seventeen eighty two novel
Lelaison do jus perfect Bye. Pierre Schoderlos de laclos YEP

(09:43):
one hundred percent YEP. Perfect Nick nailed it. It was
directed by Stephen Frears and stars Glenn Close, John Malkovich,
Michelle Pfeiffer, Swoosie kurtz Uma Thurman and Keanu Reeves. What
a cast truly, what a freaking care truly. I remember
when I was young and stupid and I thought Keanu Reeves,
Oh why would they cast Keanu reason this? And now

(10:05):
that I've a just grown to love Keanu Reaves no
matter what he does, I'm like, he's perfect, if any
to the death. But now also I'm like, no, I
think he's kind of fine in this.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
I agree. I had the same journey with Keanu Reeves,
where when I was a younger, I was like, he's
terrible in this movie? Why did they cast him? And
now I'm seeing it again this week I was like, oh, okay,
I do get it. Dangerous. Liaison's was nominated for seven
Academy Awards, including Best Picture that it lost to rain
Man Best Actress for Glenn Close, who lost to Jodie

(10:36):
Foster for The Accused. Okay, I can't. I can't complain
about that one.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
That's fair. I refuse to watch The Accused. Oh why
I'm not watching it? Sorry?

Speaker 1 (10:46):
What a fun film for everyone? Yeah no, no, that
truly though she's fucking incredible for The Accused fair enough,
yeah uh, and Best Supporting Actress from Michelle Pfeiffer, who
lost to Geena Davis for The Accidental Tourist. All I
know about The Accidental Tourists is that A I've never
seen it, and B Geena Davis won an Oscar in
an unbelievably stacked year because every other performance that year

(11:09):
for Best Warding Actress I've seen and been like they
should have won. Who won instead?

Speaker 2 (11:12):
Let me tell you something, Everyone hold on to your butts.
I have seen The Accidental Tourist, and I don't know
why we rented it. We rented it for like a
family movie night. It may possibly have been because Gina
Davis plays a dog trainer in it, and my mother
trained dogs like I wonder if genuinely that was as
a thought process, and obviously we knew she had won
an Oscar for it, so we wanted to see it.

(11:34):
I remember almost nothing about it, except for the fact
that my mother didn't think Gena Davis was a particularly
good dog trainer ha ha. And I remember the last,
the very last image of the movie. I remember my
mother being like, that's it.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
It's like when it's like when when doctors watched Gray's Anatomy,
Like that's not how it.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
Works, that's how it works.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
None of this is how anything works.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
So I remember that Ellen's review of the The Accidental Tourist
was two thumbs down.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
She wanted one one hundred percent more dog training. By
the way, I didn't finish. It was also nominated for
Best Adapted Screenplay, Best Costume Design, and Best Production Design,
all of which it won.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
Yeah, I actually want to talk a lot about the
costume design for this movie, because I beautiful, gorgeous, gorgeous gowns,
but I think intentionally rendered in some of the ugliest
color combinations.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
I think historically accurate.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (12:25):
Also, there's one character whose outfits are universally pretty terrible,
but I feel like that's a it's a choice, huh.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
I genuinely think all of the outfits that maybe go ooh,
we're on purpose, Like, I don't think any of them
were unintentional.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
There's really only like one outfit on Glenn Close that
I'm like, I don't love it. But that's that's as
far as I'll go.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
There's one in particular that it just it's literally it
looks beautiful, beautifully constructed. The color combination is like a
salmon pink with a cantalope orange. That literally it makes
me physically ill.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
Oh no, actually, that's not even one of the bad ones.

Speaker 2 (12:59):
That's not the fucking ugliest thing.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
That's not even the one that I don't like on
Glenn Close. I'm a different one.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
I genuinely thought it was so ugly that I was like, Oh,
the costume designer is portraying how hideous she is on
the inside through this color combination.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
No, sorry, buddy, you just don't have tastes.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
Oh sure, sure. Dangerous Liaisons was rushed into production when
the studio learned of a competing adaptation being made by
milosch Foreman. His film Valmont, was released a year later
and started a Net Benning, Colin Firth and Meg Tilly.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
I have to say I've seen both. There's stuff I
love about both. We'll get further into this. I think
the casting is pretty much across the board better in Valmont. Okay,
and I get ready get ready to throw shit at me.
I'm including Glenn Close and a net Benning.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
And that they're wildly different versions of the same character,
and the writing is much better in Dangerous Liaisons. The
writing in Valmont is very shaggy and loose, and it's
not like witty the this movie is so like the
Ask was wildly different even though they're playing the same character.
I don't know. This movie is better on every other way,
in every other way except.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
For the cast.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
Like if you put that cast in this movie. Oh, Mama, Mia,
I have.

Speaker 2 (14:13):
Seen Valmont as well. I don't remember it that well.
I can say for sure that I know I preferred
Colin Firth. I can't say about the other two leads,
which I would. I don't have an opinion. It's not
that I think you're wrongs that I do not have
an opinion.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
Let's say, actually, like Annette Benning and Glenn Close are
like equals.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
It just seems like it's time to make another movie
of this story and call it MRK Toy.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
Have they not done that yet?

Speaker 2 (14:37):
I don't think so. Oh, we gotta do that, We
gotta do that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
Yeah, we already covered cruel intentions on this podcast, which.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
Is the other which is also perfect, which is the.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
Best version of this story.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
It's the only one that features the Valmont character gently
stroking a glass dildo. Yeah, so you.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
Haven't seen Valmont in a while. Dangerous Liaisons has a
ninety four percent critical reading on Rotten Tomatoes and eighty
eight percent audience score and a ninety on Cherry Picks. Agreed.
Agreed with all of those.

Speaker 2 (15:11):
I agree with, I agree with them. I had an
interesting journey with watching the movie this time, So I'll
go first, I have seen the movie. I saw the
movie in college, loved it, probably watched it one or
two more times in college, when like, you know, you're
doing all of that artsy film watching in theater school,
You're like, oh God, I only like Oscar winning movies.
You know, I haven't seen it since. Then this time

(15:32):
watching it, I was going and being like, well, this
is a perfect movie. This is going to be the
most fun we've had because there is literally nothing that
could possibly be critiqued about the film a Dangerous Liaisons.
And then I watched it this time and I was like, oh,
except for except for I'm sorry, I genuinely am not
saying this because of his physical looks John Malkovich. The

(15:55):
performance does not work for me at all. I don't
actually even blame him, because I think he's genuinely doing
his level best and he's a good actor. He has
weirdo energy, and I never buy that either one of
these women would be like do me now, do me
now on this devon or whatever. It was like just

(16:17):
get inside of me, which is like And when I
first started watching it, I was like, oh, he's like
he is the beginning. He's like performing a lot, and
he's doing it on purpose. At some point he's going
to drop in and it's gonna be this like, oh shit,
he realizes that he's he's gotten done by his own
game kind of thing, and it just never happens yep.

(16:38):
And I was like, oh no. And then I was
starting I was like, man, what if Colin Firth had
been in this movie?

Speaker 1 (16:44):
Agreed?

Speaker 2 (16:44):
Okay, when did you foresee it?

Speaker 1 (16:46):
Though, one hundred percent agree with you. I saw this
in high school for the first time. Okay, all my
little friends were super into this movie. We all watched
it a bunch. There was a guy that I had
a massive crush on who was so into John like
as an actor.

Speaker 2 (17:02):
Oh okay, like you know, that's a red flag. By
the way, serious actor in case anyone wants to know
a straight man ver into John Malcovich. It's not like
a deal breaker, but it's something to note. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
Yeah, and I because I think of that influence, I
was like, you're right.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
He's perfect, gotcha, gotcha?

Speaker 1 (17:18):
I was wrong, not perfect.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
Pect.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
I think it was like fourteen or fifteen. The first
time I saw Yeah, I was like, you know, John
Malcovich is Okay, it's a little weird, it's a little
left of center. But maybe I'm just not seeing what
that person is seeing. I'm gonna watch it again and
I'm like, no, still not getting it, still not getting it. Okay, Look,
I'm an adult now. That person sorry, if they're listening,

(17:42):
they're not like, you're wrong. You were so wrong about
John Malkovich.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
You're wrong, Kletus, You're so wrong.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
He's terrible in this. He's so miscast.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
He's so miscast.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
And I look, I think he can be very good
as an actor. I don't think he's one of those
like chameleon actors.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
I don't think so either, if not, someone.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
Who can do this and that he can do this,
and he can do a little more of this, and
that's kind of what he can do. He cannot do that.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
Whereas like, if you're talking about other weirdos, I feel
like maybe Willem Dafoe could have done this better, like.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
If you needed a weirdo, but you don't need a weirdo.
The role calls for like a sex assassin.

Speaker 2 (18:22):
Yeah, you know, someone who's so hot that when he
walks into the room the panties drop, but not just hot. Charming, yes,
and wounded and arrogant, but like with soft sad eyes.

Speaker 1 (18:34):
But also can play like Evil in the same film
and like he's doing the evil. Yeah, we got Evil
on lock, but none of the other stuff works for me.

Speaker 2 (18:42):
You know, might have been good, I don't think you
would be in quite the right age. Maybe Tom Cruise
might have been really good in this part.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
I don't think he has it either.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
I'm just thinking of him as the stat I'm like,
if he could, if he could access that, although that's
a little crazier, So maybe you're right. You're right.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
I forgot about lastat I forgot because you're still thinking weirdos.
Because song Cruise definitely is straight up in the ey.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
We have said he is an animatronic.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
He is an intense weirdo, and that it's perfect when
you need an intense weirdo. There's a million actors who
would have been better. So anyway, I have seen this
movie like fifty times so many times throughout the years.
I watch it a lot. I own it. I had
a couple of realizations this time watching it that I
had not had before it, and I'm excited to share
with people. But for the most part, I feel the

(19:26):
same way I do now as I did when I
was a fourteen or fifteen year old, Like we're and
I'm gonna just live in my truth. John Malcolm, it is.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
Not good in me, It's not I'm forced to agree.
I am forced to agree, all right, Erica. The tagline
for Dangerous Liaisons is lust, seduction, revenge. The game as
you've never seen it played before.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
That's good.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
It's pretty good.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
It's fun.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
I would love it, just the game as you've never
seen it played before. Just I don't know if we
need the first three words, but I'm not gonna nit pick.
I'm not gonna knitpick.

Speaker 1 (19:56):
I think you do need the first three words. You
think I do, because otherwise you're like, it's very confusing
if you're just looking at a photo of Glenn Close
in like seventeen seventy outfit, and you're like the game,
what are we doing here? Shall I read the iTunes synopsis?

Speaker 2 (20:10):
Please do?

Speaker 1 (20:11):
Three Academy Awards went to this sly seductive tale about
the fatal attraction.

Speaker 2 (20:17):
I see what they did? You see what they did?

Speaker 1 (20:19):
Linking eighteenth century French aristocrats Glenn Close, John Malkovich, and
Michelle Pfeiffer from the international stage hit Have you ever
seen it on stage?

Speaker 2 (20:28):
I have? Yeah, I've never seen it on stage.

Speaker 1 (20:29):
Sat with Janet McTeer and Leev Shreiber.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
How was ago? It was?

Speaker 1 (20:32):
The production wasn't great, but I will watch Janet McTeer
read the fucking phone book and she was brilliant.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
She was really good, excellent.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
He was shocking. He fell into the Malcovitch trap, really,
which I was like, why are you being so like
weird and creepy?

Speaker 2 (20:46):
It's so funny because I don't I don't think that's
a hard role. I mean it's a hard role in
that it's like it requires an arc, but like the
ARC's not a mystery. I agree, I agree.

Speaker 1 (20:56):
I remember being a little diss because I've seen Leev
s Treiver a bunch of times.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
You know who got the ark, Ryan Phillippy. He understood the.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
Art, nailed it, nailed it.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
There's not a mystery here, like mere Toy has some
stuff going on under the surface. I get it. That's
a harder part. Valmont, you're an asshole. You fall in love.
You're not an asshole anymore. That's it, that's all.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
That's a whole ass thing. Do you have an actual synopsis?

Speaker 2 (21:21):
I do. The actual synopsis for dangerous liaisons is this
is why you don't leave a paper trail. You don't
put shit in the emails. You just say it to
their face. Then you deny everything afterwards.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah, exactly. You don't put your nudes online. They live
there forever, now, forever, forever. Don't leave a paper trail.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
Don't leave a paper trail. Don't leave a trail to
the ferns. Just to bring it back to what we
were talking about earlier, that's gross. Everyone listening, stick around.
We're gonna come right back. We're gonna take you through
dangerous Liaisons. But first we're gonna have a couple of
commercials here. If you don't want to listen to commercials,
all you have to do is a little hop skip
and a jump over to the Patreon Patreon dot com
slash that ageable podcast you can join. They're all paid members,

(22:01):
get add free episodes, you get to vote, so maybe
next time Shag comes up, you'll be able to vote
for Shag. It'll win in a landslide. If all these people,
all these people requesting Shag joined the Patreon and voted
for Shag, you know what we happened. Shag would one
just pointing it out, laying it well? You know, I'm
just saying true things. All right, stick around, we will

(22:24):
be right back, and we're back.

Speaker 1 (22:35):
We open in Paris in the late seventeen hundreds and
on the Marquis I'm gonna mispronounce his name. Apologies to
the French speaking listeners. Murtoy, it's mere Toy.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
Let me tell you something. If there was not a
copy paste option, we would be talking about the Marquis
de glenn Close. This entire fucking rerecap because I'm like,
that word is impossible to spell. I do not know
how to spell it.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
Okay, guess what, bitch, we're calling her the Marquis of
glenn Close for the rest of this movie. I refuse
to say the word I can't pronounce.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
Ah.

Speaker 1 (23:10):
The Marquise de Glenn close as she looks in the mirror,
her wig in place, but her face clean of makeup.
She gently touches her cheeks dewey, soft, ym beautiful, and
a small smile appears. She seems enormously pleased with herself.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
Did this make you think lights, camera and me without
a stitch of makeup on from drop dead gorgeous? Because
I immediately thought of that.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
We then cut to a darkened room. A line of
male servants enter and set about preparing their yet unseen
master for his day. Did you notice at one point
I live for this shit to watch, like seven people
have to dress one person.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah, because it's.

Speaker 1 (23:49):
It's the aristocracy right before it ends basically in France,
at like the most deconent. So the male servants put
out this like silver platter made of silver with like
handkerchief on it, and the person like it John Malcovich
just tell you, Seanko and John Malkovich like grabs the
handkerchief with like a little flourish and then the hanky
goes under the sheets. My whole life watching the movie,

(24:11):
I was like, oh, he's wiping his face or whatever. Yeah, no, no, no,
if you watch the sheets move, he is wiping something downstairs.
I didn't notice that, Yeah, which I'm I'm like, is
that in the script or was that like a Malcovic
original Malkovich o G I think it might be a
Malcovich OJ where he's like, guess who had some fun
last night and is now cleaning up the mess, or he's.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
Just working on the morning.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
Would maybe yeah, maybe like it cuts away before anything
really happens whatever it is, it's happening downstairs, not upstairs.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
Yeah, so okay, maybe he just shouted overnight he had
some bad.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
He's so rich that like he didn't even shirt, he
just shot the bed, and he's like, buy a new bed.
I'm gonna ristocrat. I can afford anything. I own everything.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
Every time I see things like this, for some reason, genuinely,
the first thing I think is what if? What if
you have diarrhea? Like they were eating such disgusting rich foods.
There were times where there was a bathroom emergency.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
Oh thousand percent, and there're weighs seventeen layers of satine. Yeah, like, oh,
if you make a mistake, you're fucked.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yeah, you were just fun. Let me play solid liquid
or gas and you lose that. The whole dress has
to go.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
The whole dress that hold those pants. What if you're
in public, what if you're at a ball, what if you're
playing croquette.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
Luckily, some of those colors are so ugly you might
be able to play off the brown stain. It's just
just a fashion choice.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
So, as I said before, this is all spliced together
with the Marquis to Glenn Close, the servants prepping her.
One person puts one earring on, another person puts another
ear ring on, while someone else dabs some perfume on
her on her lobes, and like, it's so delicate and
so beautiful, and she doesn't have to move and she's
just magically dressed in the morning. We end on the
reveal at the end of this montage of the Vicomte

(25:52):
de Velmont played by John Malkovich, as the two aristocrats
go out and face the day. Yep, hard day's work
for these two, truly.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
We jump forward the day and we find the Marquis
Dick glen Close at home with her cousin, Madame de Valange,
played by Swoosie Kurtz.

Speaker 1 (26:07):
I don't remember who played this in the Valmont version
of the film, but I can't imagine they're better than
this now.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
Also there is Vollange's eighteen year old daughter, Cecile, played
by Uma Thurman, fresh out of her convent education.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
So in this film they made her eighteen. In Valmont,
they kept her real age of fifteen.

Speaker 2 (26:27):
Yeah, with rus Baal and she's.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
Played by for Rusa Bald. I haven't seen it in
a while. There is some stuff, but it's not I
think they stick to the laws basically. Yeah, but actually
like the other interpretation better because like it's creepy and
it should be creepy.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
Okay, So Marquis, Dick, Glen Close, and Vollange play cards.
Cecile stands quietly by A butler comes in. He announces
that Valmont has arrived, and Vllange is surprised. You allow
this well known rake and scoundrel into your house, so
Vollange warns her daughter. Immediately Cecil, she says, Valmont never
opens his mouth without first calculating what damage he can do. Excellent, yes,

(27:04):
Velmont enters. He immediately scandalizes Volange by barely disguising his
lust for Cecil while announcing that he will be leaving
Paris to visit his aunt. Vllange is like, I'm out
come with me, Cecil, your virginity is pure. Let's get
you away from this Lithario.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
So once the Valanges leave, the Marquis to Glenn close,
his pleasant facade drops and she laughs at Valmont, scandalizing
her cousin. She's like, whooh, that was fun playing let's
let's poke the roob.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
I felt something. What an interesting experience.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
She and Valmont, who are former lovers, longtime confidants, besties,
probably each other's emergency contacts.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
Absolutely absolutely, Ice Valmont in her phone, Ice Merty.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
They have keys for each other's houses. He dog sits
for her when she's out of town.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yes, she cuts his lawn when it gets overgrown. If
he's out of town, she just goes over there with
the mower. Ye, this is a nice neighbor.

Speaker 1 (27:57):
Absolutely, actually turns the sprinkler on, checks the mail, checks
the mail. They text each other when they've come home
at night and been like home safe and sound.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
Love you love you.

Speaker 1 (28:10):
That's these two.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
That's these two.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So she asks him for a favor.
It seems that another one of her former lovers, Bestide
is his name in this film. He's very much seen
in Valmont, and he is played by Jeffrey Jones. Oh no,
that's so like another layer of ick, the exact wrong
kind of meta, like the other layer of I to

(28:32):
the whole fucking thing. So Bestide, person we never see,
has made arrangements to Mary Cecil because her virginity is
assured because of her convent education, and that is his
one priority because Valmont's like, but she's she's rich. I'm
sure her fifty thousand pounds a year are part of
the deal. And the Marquisa Glenn Close is like, no, no, no,

(28:54):
he just wants a virgin, a fresh dewey virgin or whatever.
I'm sorry I started down.

Speaker 2 (28:59):
That path me too, frankly, ha ha, I'd rather hear
about a fresh dewey fern at this point.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
Version and then and then we find out the audience
finds out that Best Deed, this unseen villain of the
film threw her over Mark like the Marquita Glenn Close
over for a lover of Valmont's at the time, and
he's like, well, I was happy to be rid of
her frankly, she was getting tedious.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
It was a Shania Twain situation where her best friend
married her husband. She married her husban's best friend. Yeah,
it was that thing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:29):
He's like, no, no, no, I'm very happy with this.
It was all great. No problems were still, no no notes,
It's fine. I saw in Paris and the Marquita Glenn
Close is like, no, you weren't, and she cuts him
to the quick. She's like, no, no, no, you were
humiliated and so was I, so let's get them back.
She asks Valmont to seduce the young woman depriving best

(29:50):
eied of his virginal bride, and Valmont's like, no, I'm sorry, bro,
I can't. I just can't. And she's like why not,
and he's like, well, that performance is perfect, which's.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
Like why She's literally like pouts yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
And he's like it would be too easy. She doesn't
know anything. She's curious. She'll be on her back before
the first box of chocolates is even unwrapped. There's no
wooing in here. I have my reputation to protect. And
then he sits next her and goes, I clearly am
going to have to tell you everything. Aren't I and
she goes naturally. So that's when he reveals his own plan.

(30:22):
There is a woman staying at his aunt's house, I
happily married and famously devout, Madame de Torvelle. The Marquise scoffs,
and she says, I think there's something degrading about having
a husband for arrival. It's humiliating if you fail, and
commonplace if you succeed. I'm gonna have that written, not
a throat pillow, don't point it out. I'm gonna have

(30:42):
that stitch into a throat pillow and put in my
house because it's perfect. And she's like, you know what,
that conquest is just not worthy of you, my friend,
and Valmont's like contraire. He wants her to still love
her husband. He wants Madame de Torvelle to still believe
in Jesus and God and like the goodness of mankind
and not be able to help happen on his d anyway.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
So he's like, don't you see, It's gonna be my
greatest conquest of all a famously like happy woman, and
I'm going to destroy her life. Wah, And the Marquis goes,
all right, that does sound kind of cool, and he says,
you understand my ambition there after all, like, isn't betrayal
your favorite word? And she goes, no, no cruelty. I

(31:27):
always think that has a nobler ring to it. Another
throw pillow.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
Yeah, this movie will fill a couch.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
This movie has so many quotable lines.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
Yeah, it's so good. So Valmont asks after the Marquise
de Glenn Close's current lover, a man named bell Roche,
and suggests she should take another. He says exclusivity seems
most unhealthy. She should organize an infidelity, and he offers himself, yea,
what genuinely was in the water in seventeen hundred France?
This man's dick a didn't fall off from some kind

(31:59):
of early form of syphilish.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
He definitely has superphilis, but.

Speaker 2 (32:04):
Be like literally had I mean, I guess it's the
point is he has nothing else to do. The only
thing he has to do is fucking. They're just so
there are no podcasts, decadent. This would never have happened
if podcasts.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
If there had been Netflix. Yeah, these two would be
watching Emily in Paris right now.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
This tragedy could have been avoided. So the Marquise, unable
to resist the game, offers a deal. Should Valmont succeed
in his attempts to seduce the virtuous Madame de Torvelle
and provide written proof of his success, the Marquise, stickling close,
will spend one night with him. Valmont's eyes light up
at the prospect of sleeping with her again, and he agrees.

(32:44):
This is actually a very good moment for John Malcovich.
He like, he's like on a set of steps and
he puts his leg up and he kind of like pouts.
He's like, and he hope of it like an advance
or something. I really want to fuck excellent, but she
says no. He takes his leave, and then Merety heads
to a hidden alcove in her house where Belle Roche
is waiting for her. That's her current lover. He gasps
how time has no logic when he's not with her,

(33:06):
and she reminds him that, as she has told him before,
they would get on better if he makes a concerted
effort not to sound like the latest novel.

Speaker 1 (33:13):
Yeah, excellent. He goes an hour is like a century
when you're not with me.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
She's like, shut up, God, you get under my petticoats
and shut up.

Speaker 1 (33:23):
You are ruining my boner.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
I'm gonna fill your mouth.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
We cut to Velmont with his aunt, the Madame de Rosmond,
played by Mildred Natwick. What a great name, Yeah, Mildred Natwick.
They attend church and he sees his target, the beautiful
Madame de Torvelle, played by the fucking beautiful Michelle Pfeiffer.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
Yeah, luminous luminus.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
After the service, they walk together. Now to her credit,
When you hear the description of Madame de torvell you're like, Oh,
she's gonna be some like yeah, some stuck up, like
obnoxious Bible thumping Like you're like, oh, boring, death of
the party.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
She's not.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
She's not what you expect. She's very friendly, she's very cheerful.
She seems pretty open minded. Actually, she's talking to him
and being very friendly. And I like that interpretation quite
a bit.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Yeah, And I think I really think that Michelle Pfeiffer
is doing God's work because I think the role's a
little underwritten and she's managing to bring some charisma.

Speaker 1 (34:20):
I don't think the role is underwritten. I think in
this version it's impossible.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
To Maybe that's it to understand the following love. Yeah,
that's fair.

Speaker 1 (34:28):
The role is not underwritten. She gets quite a lot
to do, and like, the arc is very clear, and
she plays it beautifully. It's just it's just watching her
be seduced by John Malcovich doesn't work. So after the service,
they're walking together and she wonders why he didn't take communion.
I noticed you didn't take communion and what's up with that?
And he's like, well, as you know, I have a
terrible reputation and she goes, oh, yeah, all my friends

(34:49):
told me to avoid you. And he's like wait what whoo?
Who told you? And this is the first moment where
I'm like, what are you doing, John Malcovich? What are
you doing? Because he plays it exactly like that, what who?
And I'm like, okay, is that for her benefit? Or
is that his actual response?

Speaker 2 (35:05):
Right?

Speaker 1 (35:05):
The character seems far too guarded. I can't imagine that's
his actual response. But then also it doesn't make any
sense in this seduction. And she's like, well, just a friend,
you know, nobody you know. He tells her he spent
his life engaging in immorality and he is now starting
to feel deep unworthiness. He wants to improve himself, and
she's like, yes, yes, at this moment is when you
just become the most worthy. Good job, sirs. She very

(35:29):
much approved. She does everything but pat him on the back.

Speaker 2 (35:31):
Meanwhile, back in Paris, the Marquis de Glenclose has been
forced to find another avenue to take her revenge on Bestide.
So she brings Madame Devellannge and Cecile to the opera,
where she spots the young Chevalier Dnsone, played by that
age well perennial favorite Keanu Reeves.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
Oh I met the opera.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
He is weeping at the music. The Chevalier Dnsonet maybe
may prefer, like, you know, a little more baguette to
an escargo, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (36:00):
How dare you?

Speaker 2 (36:01):
Sir? He seems very open to his emotions. That's all
I'm saying. That's all I'm saying this.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
This is a different time.

Speaker 2 (36:08):
By today's standards, he would be horribly bullied in middle school. Okay.
The Marquise suggests that Valange hire the penniless young man
to give music lessons to Cecile, So this is important.
The Chevalier Dnsone is noble, He's of low noble rank,
but he is nobility, but he has no money. Yeah,
so he is not, in Valange's eyes, an appropriate match

(36:29):
for her daughter.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
The next day, back in the country, Valmonde is hunting
with his valet as a Land played by the excellent
Peter Capaldi.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
Great.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
I have a thing that I just noticed this first
time watching this movie, and I'd never noticed before. Oh, okay,
all the aristocrats are played by Americans.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
And doing American accents.

Speaker 1 (36:46):
They they're straight up American accents, including Keanu Reeves, not
changing it at all. And all the servants are either
English or Scottish. Huh, there's one person who's French.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
Who you're saying, is that this movie says America first America.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
That's what this movie is saying.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
No.

Speaker 1 (37:07):
I just thought that was super interesting. It could be
fully a coincidence that they're like, oh, we're just casting
English people and scott.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
You're shooting in Europe or something, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
Shooting in England. I'm hoping they're shooting in England and
that's why. But maybe not. Maybe maybe Once they cast
Peter Capaldi, they were like, wouldn't it be interesting if
all the servants were English and Scottish?

Speaker 2 (37:25):
It's the only one I noticed is there's a character
coming up right now with a peasant who comes out
with a full Cockney accent, like a full you that boy,
what day is it? Oh it's Christmas die sir accent
like full fresh, And I was like, that's a strung choice.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
There's one person with a French accent the entire movie,
and the court is in and I feel like that's
because she's like a level between. She's their version of
middle class. So Velmont and Azaline are wandering through the forest.
They are fully aware that one of Torville's men is
following them. How are they aware because Aslan has been
fucking Madame de Torvell's made Julie and his whole thing,

(38:07):
the whole movie. His whole thing is how annoyed he
is at Julie, and it is excellent one thousand percent
of the times he's like, He's like, if it wasn't
in the country, may would have only pollocked her once.
But I'm bored.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
He is Mini Valmont.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
He is so mean about Julie behind her back that
it makes me laugh.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
They also know one of Torvell's men is following them
because the man that Torvell has chosen to follow them.
Is the worst follower I've ever seen. There is a
shot where he he is hiding, hiding air quotes behind
a tree, and then they turn around, so he decides
to make a run for another tree, and he looks
like a rabbit that felt a shadow pass overhead, Like

(38:45):
he's just so out of control.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
He is Lafu from Beauty and the Beast right is Yeah,
he is one percent Lafu. He's played by Josh Gadd.

Speaker 2 (38:55):
Essentially he too, even.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
Though Josh Gadd was only seven when this movie came out.
So because they know they're being followed, and because they
know also, Madame de Torvelle, how messy are you?

Speaker 2 (39:05):
Yeah? Why are you doing it? Why are The movie
posits that upon seeing Valmont, she was so physically attracted
to him that she was able to fool herself into
just saying, it's a normal thing for me to tell
one of my men to follow these two.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
Yeah, see what they're doing, See what they're doing, So
just see what they're about. I'm curious. It's either that
or she suspicious of him, which is far more likely
given the goddamn performance.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
Yeah. My only pushback on that is if she was
suspicious of him, then why would she care?

Speaker 1 (39:32):
Why is she seduced?

Speaker 2 (39:33):
Yeah, it's well, because he's.

Speaker 1 (39:35):
Following her around. I don't know, I might be a
little suspicious.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
I think this is what I mean when I say, like,
I think the character's a little bit underwritten, like some
of the motivation. And I really do agree with you.
I do think ninety percent of it could be solved
with a better perform performance that she's bouncing off of.
But like, I think it could do a little bit more,
a little bit.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
More there, a little bit more like the scene where
she's like, hmm, I wonder what he's up to, you
know what? You follow him?

Speaker 2 (39:57):
A scene where he actually just like tells like because
they say, oh, she doesn't believe that we go hunting
in the morning. I'm like, why does she care if
you go hunting in the morning. Who gives a shit
does she think you're doing?

Speaker 1 (40:06):
Like you're out there seducing young women in the morning,
and that's when she's jealous, Like, you're right, yeah, Like
the what is her motivation for this?

Speaker 2 (40:13):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (40:13):
So the man follows them and they end up going
as Alene picks a house for them to go into
and it's a peasant's house. It's a shack in the wood,
a shanty, and there's a man with all his like
fifteen children, and the bailiffs are just tossing shit out
of his house, like repossessing all his goods. It's very
pre revolutionary war. Friends, they make a huge show Valmont

(40:37):
does of paying off the peasants debt and saving the
man's house, and then later on he congratulates Aslon on
a job well done. You found the perfect family. They
were grateful without being sniveling. They were poor, that's enough
that they needed to help. It was remarkably cheap to
save an entire family from ruin. How cool is that

(40:57):
you can do that for nothing and no suspens, just
le pretty daughters in the family, so that that people
were wondering why he's helping them. He also asks as
Alene if he has succeeded in getting Julie the Maid
to give him access to Madame de Torvelle's correspondence, because
he wants to know who it is who's writing to
her and telling her bad things about him, and Aslyn's like, ugh,

(41:19):
will I have to fuck Julie again?

Speaker 2 (41:22):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (41:22):
I'm so tired and.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
He's forgetting her name. She's so boring haha.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
So Valmont's like, well, how about if I arrange you
for you to to get caught so we can blackmail her.
And Aslen's like sure, and he's like, well, two am,
work will give you. We'll give you enough time. I
don't want to embarrass you. Asley just goes ample.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
So we cut till later that day, Valmont is lounging
in a sitting room or something. Tourvel and Rosemond appear.
They have heard that he has saved that poor family's house,
the Cockney family with the ugly daughters. He saved their house.
They are both overcome. His aunt is like, my darling boy,
what it's the show of generosity. I've never seen the

(42:04):
like from you. He hugs his aunt and then he
kisses a surprise Torvell on both cheeks. He Adrian Brodie's Torvell.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
Yeah, he gets gets it all open her space.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
Yeah, and she's clearly put off by it.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
We cut it. That evening, Valmont and Torvell are sitting alone,
and Torvell wonders how Valmont could have been so generous
with that cocknife family, but at the same time so
depraved and Valmont, like he's not a master seducer because
he has no patience. He like just goes for it.
He's like, do you realize my charity was inspired by

(42:37):
your influence on me. I love you. You have to
help me, and he like throws himself at her, and
she I actually genuinely thought at first that she was
playing like scared because I was like, that's my honest
human reaction to this, and like no, because he's so creepy. Yeah,
and look, part of this is a director. The director
could have been like, John, pull it way back, way
the fun way back, Like you have to like it

(42:57):
has to be a toe in the water here, like
if you just said, like I don't want to make
you uncomfortable, but like I am feeling things for you
I've never felt before, Like I like when I look
at you and I feel like I'm blushing and like
and that's enough.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
Oh my god, that worked on me.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
Did my shirt come up?

Speaker 1 (43:11):
Sorry?

Speaker 2 (43:11):
Oh my god, your tits are out? Great? Rack, thank you.
So Torbell flees to her room. He follows her, and
what they play is that she is attracted to him
because he peers at her through the keyhole and she's
like heaving deep breaths and like kind of clutching at
her at the at the strings of her.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
Bodice to try to give herself breathing room.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
Yeah, and look, I guess if you take as read
that Torbell is physically attracted to him, I can understand
this reaction. But like it's just it just doesn't read.
It doesn't read to me.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
I'm sorry it tanks the movie. Yeah, it really does.
I agree fully agree.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
Later that night, Valmont bursts into Azaland's room and blackmails
Julie Torvell's boring maid into giving him all of her
mistress's letters, right Like at one point, he's like, you're
going to need to give me what I want and
the maid thinks that he's going to have sex with her,
who just like lies back and it is like think
of England, you know, think of France, and he's like Scotland. Yeah.
He's like no, no, no, no, no no no, I don't

(44:10):
want to fuck you. I've heard how boring your pussy is.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
How does one have a boring pussy? You open your
legs and it's like, did you know there are forty
six kinds of beans? There's navy in to it's talking pussy.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
It's just like a geography teacher.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
You open your legs and it's like it's like, have
you gone bird watching lately?

Speaker 2 (44:43):
Your pussy's the president of the Audubon Society.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
Like you're just like, you know what, closed your legs again.
I'm good, I'm good.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
I gotta say Goldfinger has really like I've been somewhat
read to use that word all the time, and I
think I'm done. I think it's just in my vocabulary now.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
So back in Paris, Dunsany and Cecil's music lessons have
proceeded precisely as the Marquisa Glenn Close's plans, despite Cecil's
hilarious lack of musical talent, and again well done, Uma
Thurman does not get the credit that she deserves. That
she's fucking funny in this movie. So even though she
sucks it at music and then playing the harp, Dawson,

(45:25):
he still can't help himself. He just loves her. I
can't imagine why could it be? Because she looks like
ethereal goddess.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
Uma thrme with a tremendous rack.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
Fantastic breast, Uma Thurman, Congratulations, well done, lady. He's passing
her notes professing his love, and she's like her hands
are shaking. She doesn't know what to do. She's a child,
she's an innocent. Cecil confides the truth to the marquisa
Glenn Close, and Glenn Close sits her down and she's like,
why don't I help you facilitate your correspondence so we'll
see where this goes, so you love can grow. You'll

(45:56):
write love letters to each other. I'll be the go
between to pass them back and forth. That way mother
won't won't catch you, and I'll I'll help you, my friend.
And the younger Cecil's like, thank you. She's like basically,
she's like an animal who's walked right into a trap
and is like, get all this cheese is for me.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
Fantastic, Oh my god, I love peanut butter.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
Thank you. This is so generous.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
One thing I will say about the Glenn Close performance
versus the John Nackowitch performance is that Glen Close is
calibrating her performance When she's playing this kindly kind of
ant figure to Cecil. She is actively playing it, and
we the audience like she's overplaying it, I think intentionally so,
so it does seem fake to us. But for an

(46:41):
eighteen year old girl who just thinks she's her cool,
noble aunt like, it totally makes sense. And so when
she's trying to fool people, she's actively fool She's doing
something that you can buy, that they would buy one
hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
This performance is fantastic.

Speaker 2 (46:55):
Yeah no. Notes Back in the country, Valmont again engages Torvelle,
who has managed to unflood her basement. She's gotten a
plumber in and she's cleaned it up. She's fixed the pipes.

Speaker 1 (47:04):
When she opens her legs, it's just Bible versus.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
Torvelle is quite angry with him, and correctly wonders if
their entire encounter was his plan all along.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
Yeah, because he sucks, because he's not good at this.
He's bad at Why is he so bad at this?

Speaker 2 (47:24):
He categorically denies the accusation and sets about lying, saying
he couldn't help falling in love with her because of
her inherent goodness. He says, I don't want to have you.
All I want is to deserve you. Okay, that is
a good that's a good line. That's a good line.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
Well done.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
I'll give you that one. I'll give you that one.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
You make me want to be a better man? Still
the only good line and as good as it gets yeah,
which is.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
A garbage fire of a movie other than that. Okay,
So he says, how can I make you believe me?
I like this early Torvelle when she's Smart's like.

Speaker 1 (47:53):
Leave, oh yeah, yeah, how do I believe you that
you're not trying to destroy my life?

Speaker 2 (47:57):
Fuckingly? Get the fuck out? Yeah. On his face, he's
like gool, but he has no choice but to agree.
But he says, will you at least welcome my letters?
Perhaps write me back? And she's like what And he
starts to like do this thing of like if you're
so pure, why won't you even allow me to speak
with you? So he successfully turns like the devout person's
like own sense of their own goodness, like her pride.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
He's like, you say, you're so charitable, but you won't
need to offer me like your friendship.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
Before leaving, Valmont does get access to Dorbel's letter from Julie,
she of the boringest pussy and on the continent.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
She opens her she opens her legs, and her pussy's like,
do you want to hear some algebraic equations?

Speaker 2 (48:36):
It's like, would you like to hear the finer points
of real estate law? A uh Lustly, Valmont learns the
identity of the person smearing his name to Torvelle.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
She opens her legs and it's like, did you know
it's attorneys general and in not attorney generals.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
I'm going to push back on that. I actually loved
that fact. I've found it out. What if she was
a little interesting, Like, it's like snapple facts. The human
head weighs eight pounds.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
That's Torvelle's pussy. It's snapple facts. It's fun, it's cheerful,
it's interesting. It's interesting.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
That's a conversation. So he learns the identity of the
person smearing his name, Madame de Vlange swoozy kurts uh oh.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
He returns to Paris. He immediately books time with his
favorite sex worker, Emilie, the only French person in the movie.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
So the scene opens and it's her lying naked on
his bed and he is writing a letter to Madame
de Torvelle, and he is using Emily's back as a desk.
Ye love everything about this.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
I simply don't think a letter written from a quill
pen on someone's back will be legible.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
I bet it will. These people had nothing to do,
but a gets rest in the morning and be learn
how to write, learn how to write in beautiful scripts.
He then goes to visit his friend, the Marquisa Glenn Close,
who when she opens her legs, it's fucking rock music.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
It's Riot Girl.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
It's Riot Girl. Yeah, it's Susie Sue and the ban Cheese. Yeah,
it's Blondie.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
Yeah, it's it's Elvira Vira, Mistress of the Dark.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
So he goes to visit his friend and tells her,
I am now much more interested in your original plan
because your bitch cousin has cock blocked me and I
want some revenge. She's like, oh, thank god you're on board.
I've been trying to have Dawsony seduce the girl. But
like all intellectuals, the man is hopelessly stupid.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
It's even better, I'm correct you. Like most intellectuals, he's
intensely stupid.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
He is intensely stupid. There's another line here where he sat,
where Valmont says the band doesn't need help, he needs hindrances.
If he falls over enough of them, he might inadvertently
fall on top of it excellent writing. So she's like,
would you help dawsony stiffen his resolve, so to speak,
and he's like, okay.

Speaker 2 (50:52):
Now we have acting class with gun clothes. They sit
down the couch. Valmont wonders how Merty managed to invent herself,
and she responds that she had no choice. She's a
woman and hence has far fewer options than men, as
her reputation could be ruined with just a few words.
She says that she's always known she was born to
dominate your sex and avenge my own.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
Which again, if someone said that to me, I'd be like, oh,
I shouldn't hand you any letters. Yeah, I do want
to have sex with you, but maybe I'll find an
another carit to dangle exactly.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
He points out he didn't ask why, he asked how,
and she responds, when I came out into society I
was fifteen, I already knew the role that I was
condemned to, namely to keep quiet and do what I
was told. Gave me the perfect opportunity to listen and observe,
not to what people told me, which naturally was of
no interest, but to whatever it was they were trying
to hide. I practiced attachment. I learned how to look

(51:46):
cheerful while under the table, I stuck a fork in
the back of my hand. I became a virtuoso of deceit.
It wasn't pleasure I was after, it was knowledge. I
consulted the strictest moralists to learn how to appear, philosophers
to find out to think, and novelists to see what
I could get away with. And in the end I
distilled everything to one wonderfully simple principle, when or die.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
I have something so embarrassing to admit to your fantastic
I use this monologue in college.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
Yes, yes, is their video? Is their video?

Speaker 1 (52:20):
No? I never used it for an audition. I used
it in college in a class speech class. The teacher
like fully rolled her eyes in as I was doing it.
Because when I say I did this monologue, I don't
mean I performed it in my own voice, or I
like interpreted it in my way or acted in any way.
What I did was a full fucking imitation when close,

(52:43):
including all the same pauses and inflections that she has
in the movie. It's it's humiliating now.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
That I think about it. You're eighteen years old, bright
eyed and bushy tails, right.

Speaker 1 (52:55):
And yeah, I when I opened my legs, what came
out was when I came out and decided fifteen, I
became a virtuoso of deceit.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
Virtuoso of deceit is excellent, right, excellent writing. Excellent writing.
So she goes on to explain that she used this
philosophy to have her way with men who would find
themselves unable to tell others about their trysts even if
they wanted to, as the Marquis stick Glen Close would
simply blackmail them into silence. So she's gathering information on
people deciding, oh, I want to fuck Kevin. I need

(53:24):
to get something on Kevin. So when I fuck him
and he gets mad at me, I can say, shut
your mouth, say nothing, shut.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
Your mouth, or I'll tell everyone you burn down that orphanage.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
Exactly that you always go to that have you burned
down an orphanage? Now it feels really close to.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
The surface, So you guys, definitely do not google orphanage
burning nineteen ninety six. I wasn't even in Alabama at
the time, so don't worry about it.

Speaker 2 (53:50):
Valmont wonders if that's what happened with them, He's like oh,
were you just using me? And she tells him their
affair was the only time she was ever controlled by
her desire and you believe it, it's real. When she's
saying it, he leans toward her and she smiles, and
it seems like maybe that little little tryst is gonna happen.
But then a servant interrupts them to announce that who
should have arrived? But then Madame de Valange yep Valmont

(54:14):
when she opens her legs circus music.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
It's the Benny Hill theme song. Valmont hides behind a
chaise lounge or something like because it's fucking France, and
Madame de Bellange enters, and the Marquis to Glenn Close
is like, I have something horrible to tell you. Oh,
I don't even know how to say it. I believe
a dangerous.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
Liaison singing ding title of movie, I wish.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
You'd like turn to the camera and wing a dangerous Liaison, wing.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
I wish you'd and then just fully turned to the
camera and said dangerous Liaison out.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
September fifth, in theaters everywhere. She's believes that as dangerous
Leison has sprung up between Dawsony and Cecil, Madame Devlange's like, no,
Cecil's just a child. She doesn't know about any of
these things. And Dacity seems perfectly harmless, like she's not wrong.
Dawsony does seem yeah, perfectly her. You can leave him
with all your virgins. They're gonna stay virgins, yep. But

(55:19):
the Marquita Glenn Close is like, really, really, you think
nothing's happened between them? Are you aware that your daughter
has been getting letters from the man and that you'll
find proof of those letters, and that cecil keeps in
a dresser in her room. And Madame de Vlange's like,
oh my god, you're such a good friend. Then the

(55:40):
Marquita Glenn Close says, didn't Madame de Rosemand invite you
out to the country. Madame Devlange is like, yeah, sure,
but we weren't gonna go. And she's like, well, what
about a spell in the country to separate the lovers. Yes,
since Cecilie, we'll get it all out of her system there.
She'll run it off like a dog and.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
Her like doing laps in one of those stresses like.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
Ron Jill, you don't want to fuck anymore, Sweezy kirtch
just being like another rap another lap, do another lap.
Madame de Vellonne says thank you, and she goes home.
She packs up to seal they take her to the country.
She does find the letters too, by the way, so
of course the Marquita Glenn Close knows where the letters are.
She fucking puts them there because the two dumb lovers
were dumb enough to let her have access to their correspondence.

(56:25):
After she leaves, the Marquita Glenn Close turns to Velmont
and says, well, I guess you gotta go back to
your aunt's house. You want to help me with my
little thing, And he's like, fuck you, and he kind
of storms off.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
He like identifies and protests her manipulations, but he does
agree she's got him the whole time, and it's very
clear and he doesn't see it. Yes, which is key, I.

Speaker 1 (56:46):
Think, right, I agree, I agree, it's really good writing.
If like you, she picked up on something.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
He thinks they're partners and she's just moving pieces around
on the board. Uh huh. Yeah. Back in the country,
we're in like a solarium. Rosemonde, Torvelles cecil are all
sitting around while Valmont wanders through what was.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
Life back then? What kind of idle rich.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
This is so boring.

Speaker 1 (57:13):
One person is playing cards solitaire. Yeah, it's not even cards.
Cards at least implies like human interaction. She's just playing solitaire.
Another one is like, I don't know, doing needlework. They're
all wearing fifty pounds of clothing, stifling in the fucking
heat of the summer. Look, some keuillotines had to be
brought out.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
Yeah, well they just had to and volange. God loves
Swoosy Kurts is wearing like this mulberry purple dress with
this sage green underdress and that rust orange Swuosy Kurt's hair.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
Yeah, so she's the character I was talking about earlier.
She never wears anything less than hideous in the whole movie,
and that's very clearly a choice. Ye, Like, she's just
she's tacky.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
So he has this letter. Valmont has this letter in
his hand, so he walks by cecil and he kind
of like flicks the letter at her, and Cecil's like, uh, Cecille,
maybe not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Speaker 1 (58:01):
She doesn't have to be.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
She's very shiny, but not very sharp. So he's forced
to create a diversion. So he can get Cecil alone.
So he's like, Madame de Torvelle, you look pale. You
have to go for a walk, and he kind of
creates this flutter all the women, Oh my goodness, because
they're also bored. They're like, well, a walk, Oh, oh
my god, a walk down so wonderful, sounds amazing.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
She's like, that meal was perhaps a bit too heavy.
We should go outside walk it off, which, honestly I
interpret is you gotta fight this one out, girl, Let's
go out. Let's go out in the fresh air.

Speaker 2 (58:26):
Isn't that the one good thing about those dresses? Like
this too? Trap it?

Speaker 1 (58:30):
No, it just stays with you all day. You gotta
lift those skirts up and let it out.

Speaker 2 (58:36):
The other woman all follow her, and in the flutter,
Valmont like throws the letter in Cecil's and Cecil's sewing kit.
She's like, oh my goodness. And then she goes to
follow them and he kind of takes her shawl off.
He's like, come back for it. So she leaves. Then
she comes right back and he tells her, look, it
is way too much trouble for me to be a
surreptitious go between between you and dansany that's not what
I'm here for. So here's a fake room key. I

(58:57):
want you to go. This is where your mother keeps
your room. Cake, go swap those two keys so then
I can deliver the letters to your room without all
of this nonsense. And dear sweet stupid cecil.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
Yeah, she sees no flaw in this plan whatsoever.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
It's like ooh okay, she rushes off. She does the swap,
she gives him the key to her room and goes
about her day.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
Valmont approaches Torvell and he's like, you seem angry with me.
What's going on? What's happening girl? And she's like, you
were supposed to leave and then you kick back a
week later.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
What do you think?

Speaker 1 (59:31):
Why do you think I'm angry with you?

Speaker 2 (59:33):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (59:33):
Why can't you just accept my friendship? And he says
that the old him would have accepted him and then
set about using it to his advantage, but the new
and improved Velmont can't hide the fact that he's deeply
in love with her. Fuck boy, am I right? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (59:49):
Such fuck boy energy.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
Then he tells her that she's not acting very friendly.
You know what, you should smile more, Madame de Torvell.
You be so pretty if you have smiled. And then
he he continued as a sanegger, and he says, you
know what you say. You're my friend, but you're certainly
not acting very friendly towards me right now. I'm in pain.
Can't you see how I'm in pain? And she says

(01:00:11):
we should end this conversation, and she's like nearly in tears,
and she's undone by all of this weirdly terrible logic.
And he asks if they must avoid each other, and
she says, no, no, no, just you have to abide
by my boundaries. And he says, I will obey your
wishes in this, as in everything, and he walks away.
It's hard to like judge a movie based on how

(01:00:32):
well it's aged when this source material is from literally
seventeen eighty two. So obviously all of this is all
very like flags flags, flags, flags, Everyone can see it. Now,
What's what he's doing in seventeen eighty two? Like, how
would this have come across to her? Would she have
been sophisticated enough to see all these traps he's laying

(01:00:53):
for her? Because she's an adult, she's married. Cecil's understandable,
but this woman's fucking twenty five years old.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
She should, and she does see through it. She's correct
in the beginning because she's like, that was you, That
was just an act. But he somehow manages to convince
her that it's not, basically by doing the whole thing
where if I get offended by your actions, and I'm
going to put you on the back foot, and then
you're gonna feel sorry for having offended me, and you
can't look too closely at what I'm doing because you're
on the back foot, which is so like elementary.

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
Yeah, but I wonder if in seventeen eighty two someone
would have been sophisticated enough to fear you. Probably though
these people did nothing but like interact socially with each other.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
I'm all day to be fair, Like I think there's
a genuine way to say that Torvell's character is a
bit naive, Like Torvell seemingly has had a pretty good life,
like she genuinely loves her husband.

Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
No putting it that thought in our heads now, because
some stuff is coming up that does not age well.
And I actually have trouble parsing how it would have
aged in nineteen eighty eight.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
All Right, So that night Pilmont takes the key that
cecil gave him. He enters her room and he rapes her.
I'll just say it, that's what happens, right, She says no,
She says no numerous times dreams.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
He puts his hand over her mouth and is like,
if I tell your mother that I came here because
I have your key, I think she'll believe me and
not you. Cecila has no choice but to stop. She's
more afraid of being caught by her mother than she
is of being raped in a way, like it's horrible.

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
John Malkovich works in this scene because he's slimy, and
he's supposed to be slimy. The mask is off Valmontere right,
so like he doesn't have to he doesn't have to
massage this woman gets to massage Cravelle. She's much less sophisticated,
and he's able to talk her around in a matter
of seconds essentially, And she's scared because he's just in

(01:02:37):
her room suddenly, and she's like nothing but a nightgown. Right.

Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
He does this horrible thing where he's like, i'll leave
if you give me a kiss, and so she lets
him kiss her, and like Malcovich does this thing in
this scene where he like purses his lips, it's so great,
and like sticks his tongue out so the audience can
get it. And she's horrified and you can tell she's
like gagging, and then he stops. She's like, okay, okay,
you can leave now, and he goes, no, no, no, no,
I kissed you. You did not kiss me. That's not

(01:03:02):
the bargain that we came up with. The movie does
not show anything graphic. Yeah, to be clear, the movie
does not show anything graphic. Her disgusted him in this
scene is for me as problematic because it's this scene
is supposed to see something else that happens later. And
I'm like, and I will, you know, I'll get back
to this, but like, just just so the audience knows,
if you've never seen this movie, she is saying, no,

(01:03:22):
he's pushing him away. She feels trapped yep by him
because she cannot get caught with a man in her room.
She will be ruined forever.

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
The next morning, at breakfast, Valmont silently mocks thee ceil
from across the table until she flees like he has
inches from counnye tongue. Valmont there's this really odd moment
that I don't know why the director chose to include
of him chase. He chases Cecil away, and I think
Valan says, oh, I better go check on her as
she leaves, and then you see Torvelle looking at him,
and she looks accusingly at him, like like she knows

(01:03:52):
that he did that, and it's like, okay, that right there.
You can't have that moment in your movie. She can't
see through him, or if she does see through him,
he has to fix it immediately.

Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
I see what you mean. Logically, Yes, there is something
kind of like exciting about a rogue and a rake,
and I think that's what they're picking up on in
this scene. I think she's titillated by it, or I
think that's what it's supposed to be.

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
Maybe I don't get that from Michelle Pfeiffer's performance in
this moment at all. She looks disgusted.

Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
Ah, maybe because I've seen it a thousand times, I
do kind of see it, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
The next night, Valmont returns to Cecil's room, apparently just
to rape her again, I guess, and he finds the
door blocked from the inside. Good for you Cecil smart.
I wasn't sure if you had that logic in you,
but good for you.

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
Genuinely the only smart thing she does in the whole movie.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
We see Cecil inside she is writing a letter to
the only person she can trust with information, Erica the
Marquise stick Glenn Close. Uh oh. Glenn Close's face when
she reads this letter from Cecil is high comedy. She's like, yes.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
So the Marquisa Glenn Close arrives at the country estate.
There there's an amazing moment where she's getting out of
the carriage with this big dumbgrin on her face, like Aha,
I've won, and then she looks up as she sees
Madame Devellange and her face falls. She goes, dear, yeah,
what happened?

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
I love this outfit, saffron yellow with black accents. This
is incredible.

Speaker 1 (01:05:15):
This is incredible. Madame Devlone is like, something's wrong with Cecilie.
I can't get through to her. She won't talk to anyone.
Would you help help please? And she's like, absolutely, take
me to the girl. We cut to Cecil and the
Marquisa Glenn Close in a room together and Cecil explains
exactly what happened to her. Good for you, Cecil, She's honest,
and the Marquisa Glenn Close says, well, yeah, I guess

(01:05:35):
that could have been unpleasant. But first of all, did
you say no? And she goes, yes, I said no.
But somehow that just wasn't what I was doing. That
is the moment that is the crack in Cecil's argument
against Valmont that Glenn Close's character pounces on. She goes,
why don't you just take advantage of having a teacher
in the art of love making and seduction? Because, after all,

(01:05:57):
you know you want us to douce Dawsony, wouldn't he
prefer a more worldly woman. Here's my proposal for your life, Cecil.
I think you should continue your instructions with Valmont. You
should make a lover out of Dawsony, make him your lover,
and still go through with the marriage to bestied without
any complaint to your mother. Earlier in the movie, like
she's like she gets wind of the fact that she's

(01:06:19):
about to be married to someone, and she does not
want to be married to She doesn't know the man,
but she just she's like, he's a stranger, but she
knows she can't go against her mother. Glenn closes, like,
even the least accommodating husband is less trouble than a mother. Yeah,
trust me, just get married, get your mother out of
your hair, and your whole life it will be actually yours.

Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
I will say this about this advice that she gives,
like in the Marquis de Moretoy's worldview, this is good advice.

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
This is great advice.

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
This is great advice. Like she's she has nothing against Cecille,
so Seill isn't bystander to her that she's using to
get back at the steed. Yeah, and in this moment,
she is giving her her genuine best advice for getting
ahead in the world.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
And the performance bears it out beautifully. Glenn close drops
all the facades. She's like dropping knowledge on the girl.
She's like, let me tell you how the world really works. Okay,
she's caring about her in a way, right, I totally
agree with you. It's a really good performance. So once
you're an expert at love making and you're safely married,
you can take some power for yourself. Screw whoever you want,

(01:07:21):
basically is what she tells her, and Cecil's like, am
I gonna have to do that with with all three
of these men, and she's like, girl, learn to love
love making. It's our only fucking like power, super power,
And Cecilie's face kind of lights up. She's like, Oh,
this is very, very unearned, given the I'm gonna guess

(01:07:41):
holy less than satisfying experience to seal guess. Okay, look,
I'm just gonna jump ahead. Later in the movie, they
show cecil Vauma in bed right, and he says, why
don't we start with a few Latin terms, and he
starts to go down on her. If they had done
that in the first scene, I would have been like, Okay,
I get where they're going with this, Like he did

(01:08:02):
actually give her pleasure. He gave her an arianism and
she's like, what is happening to my body? And you
have to make that explicit to the audience because all
I got from that scene is that he rapes her yea,
which I'm sure she did not enjoy in any way.
And like, now the movie is trying to make me think, like,
that's not what happens, that's not what happened. Yeah, yeah,
so does this age well in nineteen eighty eight.

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
I think the movie knows that he raped her, But
I don't think the movie is recognizing what that trauma
does to somebody. Does that make sense? Yes, Like, so
I don't think they're trying to excuse his first actions,
but they're not actually dealing with them in a way.

(01:08:44):
That's what doesn't look. Look just placing a sexual assault
in your movie doesn't make your movie age badly. It's
how you deal with it, right, And like, Cecil is
a real character, and she's a victim in this case,
but she has her own idea, she makes her own choices.
But if this is the choice that you want her
to make, literally, throw us a bone three minutes after
we've just seen this, this rape scene, that those two

(01:09:07):
things don't connect.

Speaker 1 (01:09:08):
Yeah, throw us a bone. Yeah, throw us a bone
of him of her having a moment during the previous
scene that shows that she's maybe not completely out of control,
that she has this tiny bit of control. Yeah. I
don't think this ages very well. Yeah, it was funny
by seventeen eighty standards. Yes, of course it age is
fine because it's seventeen eighty.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
There are no standards.

Speaker 1 (01:09:29):
There are no standards. Women have no agency. Rape doesn't
really exist, not as a concept in this context, this
is not rape. She allowed herself to be seduced, and
so she's at fault for this by seventeen eighties standards,
but by nineteen eighty standards, I'm like, ugh, I really
wish the movie had given us more subtleties. But let
me get back to the movie. Yeah, because this is
the one thing, this is really truly the one thing

(01:09:50):
I think does in age.

Speaker 2 (01:09:51):
Well, yeah, I agree.

Speaker 1 (01:09:52):
I'm fine with everything else in this movie. This is
my one sticking point where I'm like, oh man, this.

Speaker 2 (01:09:57):
Just it could have been fixed in either direction. It
could have either you could have made the assault less
as salty, yes, or less salty, less salty, or you
could have made the reaction bigger on her, like her
not be able to just suddenly be like oh a hold,
Like what if Cecille do is really horny?

Speaker 1 (01:10:16):
Like what if we like, what if Cecil's just really
horny in the beginning and it's embarrassed and a shame
that she let herself be seduced, but it is also like, however,
that was real fun.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
What if there's one scene with Donsony where she's trying
to sedu like she's the one taking it, and he's
the one saying no, and then Valmont comes in and
she's scared and she says no. But then they have
like a conversation and they decide to have the student
teacher relationship. And then afterwards she feels bad about it, which, yeah,
like there are ways to write this where everything goes
down much smoother than it does.

Speaker 1 (01:10:46):
Yeah, or if there's still outrage about it, Glenn Close
does her fucking level best. I'm not saying she doesn't,
but like, write more about Glenn Close shaming her into
being like, well, you were wrong. What happened to you
is natural and normal and everyone, every woman goes through it. Yeah,
so shut up, don't cry and just make the best
of a bad situation, which is sort of what she

(01:11:07):
is saying, But it's not a strong enough in that direction,
which is very obviously terrible advice and wrong. But then again,
in seventeen eighty context makes total sense.

Speaker 2 (01:11:17):
Yeah, she says that you'll find the pain, you'll find
the shame is like the pain you only feel it once.

Speaker 1 (01:11:22):
Yeah, yeah, but that's that's about first time of having sex.

Speaker 2 (01:11:25):
Yeah, like that, and she's not feeling shame, she's feeling
terror and trauma like it's it doesn't quite cover that. Yeah,
and shame as well. Shame is part of it, I'm sure,
oh sure, yeah, but like it's too big, the event
was too big to be brushed away like that.

Speaker 1 (01:11:39):
You're right, yeah, it's like they're just this scene could
have she needed to go in one direction or the other.
And I'm actually fine with it going in the bad direction. Yeah,
in which it does, but I wish it had gone harder.

Speaker 2 (01:11:51):
Yeah, where she's.

Speaker 1 (01:11:51):
Just like, well, you're a slut now, so learn to
be a slut. Live it, live it, live your best
slut life. Like and since he was like, Okay, these
are my op They're terrible options, but I'm gonna live them.

Speaker 2 (01:12:01):
Yeah. At least your pussy's not boring anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:12:03):
Dear plays house music.

Speaker 2 (01:12:09):
Her pussy just houses modest mouse. He's got the head
on these two, all right. So that is halfway through
the movie.

Speaker 1 (01:12:21):
On that note.

Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
On that note, we're gonna take a little break and
we will be back right after these messages. Unless you're
Patreon member member, you can always just join the Patreon.
You don't have to listen to this, Oh you have
to listen to this. We don't have to listen to
what's coming, you know what I mean. Anyway, I'm I'm
wrapped around the axle, stick around. We'll be right back,

(01:12:45):
and we're back, all right. So Cecil follows this, this
advice that we've just spoken a great deal about. Yeah,
with Gusto, she she dives in with both feet.

Speaker 1 (01:12:56):
She becomes a student of lamour, a student of love.
And we are asked as an audience to just move
the fuck.

Speaker 2 (01:13:03):
On from what we just watched, and hence we shall move.
But I guess so, yeah, moving on. Yeah, we talked
about this enough, right, The Marquista, glen Close and Valmont
arrived for an evening salon at the estate. I want
to talk about glen Close's gown. Here. It's in a
peacock blue, beautiful beginning, yep, beautiful color. There are pink
ribbons down the bodice. I'm still okay, okay, okay, I'm

(01:13:25):
still I don't love it, but I get it. I'm
with it. There's a design I can only describe as
the candyland trails down the front of her dress of
little pink flowers. I don't care for that. And then
the lace choker with the pink running through it all
the way up under her chin, which must have been
so uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 (01:13:45):
Oh, these people were not dressed for comfort.

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
Palm that they were dressed to mask this poop attack
that they cannot get undressed fast enough for.

Speaker 1 (01:13:51):
I was thinking about this during the commercial break, and
I genuinely am like, why would you like if I
had to wear all those clothes, if it took an
army of people for hours to dress me in the morning,
I would just be like, No, your dick is not
impressive enough.

Speaker 2 (01:14:05):
I'm sorry. Do you think the move is just to
diaper yourself and clean off the end of the day.

Speaker 1 (01:14:09):
I wonder if they're wearing underwear like for the women
at least. I wonder if the women could just squat.

Speaker 2 (01:14:13):
The squat lead into the corner and then move away. Yeah, like,
excuse me, servant.

Speaker 1 (01:14:18):
Girl, chamber pot needs to be cleaned.

Speaker 2 (01:14:21):
And by chamber pot, I mean the corner of the
living room.

Speaker 1 (01:14:23):
Yeah. And also you need to wipe my ass because
I can't reach it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:27):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:14:28):
I wonder there was a French revolution.

Speaker 2 (01:14:31):
So Valmont comments that it's too bad that their tryst
was based on the seduction of Torvelle and not Cecile,
because after all, it was based on cecil They could
be getting busy right now rather than watching this boring opera.
The marquistick Land close says that one does not applaud
the tenor for clearing his throat excellent, excellent, basically throwing
Valmont's words back at me, like this was not hard? Yeah, yeah,

(01:14:53):
what I asked you for was not even difficult.

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
And also you didn't do it too, like yeah, very well,
if I might say, if the girl was and like
barring you from her room afterwards? Yes, Like are you
not supposed to be a seductor?

Speaker 2 (01:15:05):
Right? I had to clean up this mess?

Speaker 1 (01:15:06):
Yeah, you like you're bad at seducing people.

Speaker 2 (01:15:09):
Because he has just a battering ram at the gates.
There's no there's no finesse.

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
Yeah, I wonder, Okay, look, maybe it's like a commentary
on the patriarchy and how like men don't have to
try as hard as women to do. I don't know,
but like I don't like it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:22):
I like I don't care for it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:23):
I don't care for it. Bring back Ryan Philippy.

Speaker 2 (01:15:25):
He was better, so Torvel enters. Valmont cannot keep his
eyes off of her. The Marquis de glen Close notices
doesn't like it, and she returns to Paris.

Speaker 1 (01:15:36):
We cut to the Marquis de glen Close in Paris.
She's reading a letter from Valmont saying that he goes
for a walk with Torvel every day.

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
These walks do so much heavy lifting. This this letter
so okay.

Speaker 1 (01:15:49):
So like the camera's far away from them, so it's
just like we're just watching two people like silently walking
in the background. What do we think John Malkovich and
Michelle Pfeiffer talked about, because that just because they were
allowed to just be like they're like just talk and
laugh with each other and like we're gonna film me
from a distance, it doesn't matter what you're saying.

Speaker 2 (01:16:05):
How beastly hot they both are in those clothes because
it is a sunny day, and they are both like
he is wearing it's worse for her as it always is,
but like he's wearing like four or five layers with
like tights and then like it looks like quilted things
over them. Horrible.

Speaker 1 (01:16:20):
Yeah, And they're walking in like the middle of the
French countryside because.

Speaker 2 (01:16:23):
They want to look pretty. So they're in the sunlight
in the.

Speaker 1 (01:16:25):
Field with like flowers blooming behind them. I think they
were talking about where to get the best deep dish
pizza in Chicago. Okay, yeah, he is famously a Chicago actor.
He's like, no, no, I we see if I could
do a Malcovich. No, Michelle, you want to go to
loom Al Natties. I know people say Giordano's is better,

(01:16:45):
but it's not. It simply is not. Okay, John, calm down.
I just asked, I, you know, honestly, I barely eat
carbs anyway, so don't worry about it. And he's like,
I just it's such a shame when people don't understand
and what makes greatness.

Speaker 2 (01:17:01):
You know. I see where you're going with mac. It's
not not Malcovich. You're getting there. You're shaping something Malkovich.

Speaker 1 (01:17:09):
Malkovich. Yah, g Knows the East, Michelle, go to G
Know's East.

Speaker 2 (01:17:17):
He seduces people like that because that's the only mode
he has in life. Ha ha ha.

Speaker 1 (01:17:22):
And she's like, okay, okay, John, I swear to God,
I will please please let go over my hands.

Speaker 2 (01:17:27):
You're hurting me. Sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:17:28):
Going back, So she's reading a letter, right, She's reading
a letter from him, and Valmont says that Torvelle has
accepted his love and he has accepted her friendship, though
both are aware that there is little difference.

Speaker 2 (01:17:38):
Hmmm.

Speaker 1 (01:17:40):
He says that he feels she is inches from surrender.
They go for a walk every day, and every day
they walk a little bit further down a path that
has no turn.

Speaker 2 (01:17:48):
Do you see the metaphor the path? The path is
the seduction?

Speaker 1 (01:17:52):
What?

Speaker 2 (01:17:53):
Yeah, the path? And each day, No, he gets a
little closer. So the path, if you think about the path,
does it happen? The path is the journey. There's no
there's no there's no turns. It's very straightforward.

Speaker 1 (01:18:02):
One would say.

Speaker 2 (01:18:03):
That, yeah, once you go down the path, you can't
go back, and once you get to the end of
the path, you've succeeded. So he's getting a little closer.
That's what the metal. Do you get it? No? No, okay,
let me try you again. Okay, So the path is
not a path in this sense.

Speaker 1 (01:18:15):
Still thinking about deep dish pizzas.

Speaker 2 (01:18:17):
You could go for deep dish pizza.

Speaker 1 (01:18:19):
I really could go for deep dish pizza. So we
cut to one stormy night. Well, Mom goes into Torvel's
room and he tells it that he'll be concluding his
business within a week.

Speaker 2 (01:18:28):
The fuck is his business? What is he doing? Is
he a paper route? Like? What the fuck is he
doing in the countryside?

Speaker 1 (01:18:34):
Does he have Let's assume like he's like running his
aunt's a state or something. Sure, because he's her, he's her,
like air.

Speaker 2 (01:18:42):
Your area, but I get whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:18:44):
I don't know, man, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:18:46):
You're right.

Speaker 1 (01:18:46):
The idea of this person doing business is horrible. He
runs an ice cream stay in town.

Speaker 2 (01:18:52):
He has elemonade stead twenty five cents a glass.

Speaker 1 (01:18:58):
He's a notary public. So he's like, look, I'm going
to be gone within a week, but I'm not sure
I can bring myself to leave. And she goes, but
you must, And this is the beginning of the end
for poor Torvel. She starts to unravel a little, and
she starts to cry, and she says, I'm sure God

(01:19:18):
is punishing me for my pride. I believe that this
could never happen to me, And Valmont asked her to
look at him, look at me, and weeping, she says
he must leave her if he doesn't want to kill her,
and she throws herself at his feet. Please please, leave
me out of my misery.

Speaker 2 (01:19:36):
I will give Michelle Pfeiffer all the credit in the
world for making this scene work.

Speaker 1 (01:19:42):
It's hard. This is a hard fucking scene.

Speaker 2 (01:19:45):
Like this is top level difficulty.

Speaker 1 (01:19:47):
Because also we see so little of this, like the
development of this passion, Like you do you see her
like get less I see toward him. You see her
smile at him when they're watching the earlier and with
well Glenn Close was in the room. They kept like
like stealing glances at each other and smiling like you see,
it's a very sweet flirtation. And then she just goes.

Speaker 2 (01:20:09):
Like yeah, she goes to ten. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:20:11):
He picks her up, He brings her to the bed,
and he lays her down gently. She lies quietly, tacitly,
agreeing to whatever is about to happen. He starts to
unbutton her layers upon layers upon layers upon layers of clothing.
It takes roughly six and a half hours. The film
cuts most of it. She's still kind of crying, but

(01:20:31):
she's looking at him expectantly with lust in her eyes.
And he stops himself.

Speaker 2 (01:20:36):
Do you think he stopped himself just because there was
so much clothing He's like, we gotta get a servant
to do this.

Speaker 1 (01:20:40):
Yeah, He's like, hang on, i gotta get a box cutter.

Speaker 2 (01:20:44):
You have a garden cheers or something to cut you
out of this. Ah.

Speaker 1 (01:20:49):
He stands up, he looks at her, and he just leaves.
He walks out of the room before anything anything further
can take place, and she starts to weep.

Speaker 2 (01:20:58):
So Torvelle speaks with Madame de Rose. She confesses that
she has fallen in love with Valmont and she's never
been so miserable. Rosemond says she loves her nephew, but
she knows he's a cad and Torrevell admits that Valmont
just refused her when she agreed to sleep with him,
and Rosemond is like, say what he did?

Speaker 1 (01:21:15):
What now?

Speaker 2 (01:21:16):
You better get out on the good foot because that's
not going to fucking last. He gave you mercy, take
it and run, bitch. She's funny.

Speaker 1 (01:21:23):
She says. His line of like my nephew is almost
is the worst of them all, Like just take what
he wants and leave you. And I'm like, why do
you like him so much if you know he sucks?

Speaker 2 (01:21:33):
She like, who doesn't want to fuck me?

Speaker 1 (01:21:34):
I'm his aunt.

Speaker 2 (01:21:37):
So that night Torvell flees the estate.

Speaker 1 (01:21:40):
So Valmont returns to Paris and the Marquita glen Close
stops by to see him with Dawsony. She rings Dawsne
with her Dawsony hugs Valmont, thanking him for facilitating his
correspondence with Cecil.

Speaker 2 (01:21:52):
Thank you, vicomte de Valmont.

Speaker 1 (01:21:54):
Her letters have a new sensuality to them they didn't
have before.

Speaker 2 (01:21:59):
She just didn't blood and told me it was over tits,
they said selfies. Back then they just kind of blooded
their tits.

Speaker 1 (01:22:11):
They did casts in mud, yeah, and then just then
dried them and sent it to people.

Speaker 2 (01:22:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:22:16):
They were like, burn this when you receive it, please,
and he so he's yeah, So Dawsony is like, her
letters sound so much sexier than.

Speaker 2 (01:22:22):
They used to.

Speaker 1 (01:22:23):
And then we get a cut to Cecil writing the
letter to Dawsony on valmont S naked back after they
have fucked, like and She's Cecil character is no longer
the person we saw before. The change in this character
the one e this and like Mumma Thurman must have
been thrilled in a way because like the first part
of Cecil was funny and very good but that's that's

(01:22:45):
harder to play that, like doe iden' is it. And
now she gets to play someone who's like coming into
her own as a seductress, and you can tell she's like,
oh this is I like this. I want to play
this forever.

Speaker 2 (01:22:55):
And the characters have an arc. It has an open door.
It has a door, like on one side of the
door that she opens the doors she on the other
side of the door. There's no like, there's no real
traveling there. No, she doesn't have a path a path.

Speaker 1 (01:23:06):
It's a circle. She's just walking in a circle, which
is very cecil.

Speaker 2 (01:23:10):
Yeah, all right, So the Marquis de glenn Close sends
Dnstone back to the carriage so she and Velmont can
be alone, says they have some business to discuss, and
Valmont reports to her that he believes Cecil is pregnant
with his child. So guess what, You're welcome, My little
swimmers have really made your revenge complete. Not only will
best Need's bride not be a virgin, his heir won't

(01:23:30):
even be his child.

Speaker 1 (01:23:31):
He has a great line in the scene where he's like,
I've trained her to do things one would hesitate to
ask from a professional yeah, not only not a virgin,
but so obviously.

Speaker 2 (01:23:42):
Not a virgion, desperately not a virgin. Further, he says
he could have been successful with Torvel, he stopped himself,
but he has an appointment to see her in just
a few days, and he plans on being merciless. He
sits down, and he wonders, why do we always chase
the ones who run away? I love her, I hate her.

(01:24:02):
My life is a misery. And the marquistic len Close
does the fakest yawn I've ever seen. It is like, wow,
this is boring. Valmont says he will visit her a
few days after his appointment with Torvell, and she tells
him to come only if he succeeds. She's not sure

(01:24:22):
she could stand another catalog of incompetence now, Erica, Yes,
did catalog of incompetence walk? So tales of your incompetence
do not interest me? Could run?

Speaker 1 (01:24:33):
Yes? Yeah, the idea of a catalog that you get
in the mail. I know she's not talking about that,
but that's.

Speaker 2 (01:24:39):
My rep frame of res with like a Seers model.

Speaker 1 (01:24:41):
Like a Seers model incompetently doing something on the cover,
or like a Victoria's secret catalog, but it's all models,
like insexy lingerie, just doing other things terribly, like unsuccessfully
changing a tire, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:24:54):
Just looking at a tire iron like uh.

Speaker 1 (01:24:56):
Yeah, like with confidence, walking up to someone in Paris
and accidentally speaking in Spanish, or just yelling ha ha.
So Velman goes to visit Torvel, and, as promised, shows
no mercy. He claims that she has treated him with contempt.
He does the whole thing again where he negs her
into fucking him, and he's like, She's like, I just

(01:25:19):
did what I could to survive, and he's like, well,
you refuse to even answer my letters. How do you
think that makes me feel? You ran away from me
after I showed you herculean restraint. I think we will
both agree, and Torvel feels guilty enough that he's easily
able to manipulate her into thinking that she's done something wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:25:39):
She said, wait, you're right.

Speaker 1 (01:25:40):
I am the bad guy.

Speaker 2 (01:25:42):
I am horrible.

Speaker 1 (01:25:43):
He claims I must have you or die. Do you
know what nothing sexier? Nothing, nothing sexier than of creepy
ass John Malkovich looking at you with his deep shark
eyes and going I must have you or die.

Speaker 2 (01:26:00):
That's what that's what he says. He sees a good
deep dish pizza.

Speaker 1 (01:26:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and he's like, play's the Peaquad's pizza.
Did I google Chicago pizza places?

Speaker 2 (01:26:12):
Maybe maybe, or maybe you're just it. Maybe you're just
a farmer's almanac of Chicago places we don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:26:19):
Don't get me started on Detroit style. That's not even pizza.
She starts to walk away from him. She's like, I
have to go, this is too much, and he goes, fine,
but you'll never see me again. In fact, no one will,
because I'm going to kill myself. The idea of like
a thirty five year old man being like, I'm gonna

(01:26:39):
kill myself. You don't have sex with me like that
should have been her moment where she turns around and goes,
I'm sorry, what did you say?

Speaker 2 (01:26:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:26:45):
Say that one more time to me. Uh huh okay, okay,
you know what? Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, this I understand.
I'm good, I'm good. You're an idiot, You're a fucking idiot.

Speaker 2 (01:26:55):
She's like, no, don't say that.

Speaker 1 (01:26:56):
Don't say all in your life, and then she and
then he starts to leap even she begs him to stay, stay, stay,
and she says that she also can't live without making
him happy, and swears there will be no more refusals,
no more regrets, and the two of them finally head
into lebon Zon.

Speaker 2 (01:27:14):
Le Bonzon, Le Bonzon. It's a lesser known area of Paris.

Speaker 1 (01:27:18):
It's like a preda mange. Yeah, there's a few of
them all over town here, which means.

Speaker 2 (01:27:24):
Of course, ready to eat le Bonzon, which is also
part of the thing in the Bonzon.

Speaker 1 (01:27:28):
It's a French sex shop where everything looks like a aclaire.

Speaker 2 (01:27:33):
So Valmont is thrilled. He rushes back to Paris. He's
leaping up the stairs at the Marquista glen Close's house.
He's shouting success, success, What.

Speaker 1 (01:27:44):
An idiot, don't again, you're thirty five, Why are you
so into sex?

Speaker 2 (01:27:49):
He's so bored, He's so bored. He describes his evening
with Torvel to the Marquista Glenclose, and she is her
eyes are lit up at first, right, He says, it
was unprecedented. Torvel, once she surrendered made love to him
with abandon. He never even experienced something like that before.
He ended by getting on his knees and pledging her

(01:28:10):
eternal love and would you believe Erica he actually meant
it at the time, and for several hours afterwards, I.

Speaker 1 (01:28:16):
Just thought of the perfect person to play him. Who
Jeremy Irons. Yeah, I know, they had just done Reversalle
Fortune together, so like it would have been weird to
have these two actors again together. But how fucking great
would Jeremy Irons have been.

Speaker 2 (01:28:28):
Yet with again with some weirdo energy.

Speaker 1 (01:28:31):
Weirdo energy, but the right kind of weirdo energy.

Speaker 2 (01:28:33):
Damn it. Yeah. When she hears this, however, Meretoy's face,
the Marquista glen Close's face falls and he's not looking
at her, so he doesn't see this kind of stone
face appear. She's unmoored by Valmont's real affection for Torvel.
This was not the plan. So she stands up and
he's kind of like, uh, can't we get it on now?
It took me almost twelve hours to get back from

(01:28:54):
the country, and he is risen as you as you
might say, Marqista glen Close is like, no written proof
has been provided, and Valmont kind of like pats the
seat next to me. He's like, I didn't think you
would be a stickler for rules, and she's like, no,
in fact, I'm thinking about terminating the entire arrangement. After all,
I've taken a new lover, and I can see that
you are in love with Torvel, and frankly, this is

(01:29:16):
not fun anymore. Yeah, Valmont denies it. He's like, love,
I just said, I only felt it for a few
hours afterwards, your nuts. But the marquistic glen Close scoffs.
She says, I know what you look like when you're
in love. And again she drops in and like this
is real. She says we loved each other once, and
he says we could have that again. I want to
come home. He kisses her neck. He tells her that

(01:29:36):
his fascination with Torvel won't last, but for the present,
it's beyond my control.

Speaker 1 (01:29:43):
Oh, way to sign your death warrant money.

Speaker 2 (01:29:46):
The marquistick glen Close does not care for things that
are out of control. She sees them as weaknesses.

Speaker 1 (01:29:52):
She's playing forty chess and yes, he's playing checkers with
like half the pieces missing.

Speaker 2 (01:29:57):
Yep, And she does not respect weakness or vulnerability. Her
face hardens and Valmont leaves. She goes to her love nest,
and we see that her new boy toy is none
other than the Chevalier Daunsony.

Speaker 1 (01:30:10):
Awesome, awesome, show me your tooth.

Speaker 2 (01:30:14):
Take off your top, well, take off your court? How
much do you have to take off?

Speaker 1 (01:30:18):
Okay, I'll just read a book. Just take your time,
take your time, bring in as many people as you
need to help you undress.

Speaker 2 (01:30:24):
I'm a gentleman.

Speaker 1 (01:30:26):
A few days later, Torvelle arrives to Valmont's home in Paris,
as he is just finished covorting with his favorite sex worker.

Speaker 2 (01:30:32):
And the lee.

Speaker 1 (01:30:33):
Remember Emily, she of the Human Desk earlier. I really
like this actress too. She only has these two scenes,
she's so good in both of them. He's like, well,
you better head out. There's a lady coming up who
would not appreciate your presence. And she's like, ooh, is
it the one we wrote the letter to? And he's
like the very same, and she goes, oh, I want

(01:30:53):
to see what she looks like. And he's like he
has it like a little like gleam in his eye
and he's like, you know what, I don't see why
you should yep? So he has azelone, bring torvel up.
He is handing Emily money that we know is for
whatever just occurred, you know, for the last several hours prior. Yeah,
but he's handing her money and then like kisses her
on both cheeks and his leg and she goes, I'll

(01:31:14):
be there, and then walks out, and as she's walking out,
she turns and looks at Torvell and starts to laugh.
Madame de Torvel is wearing the dumbest outfit in the sease.

Speaker 2 (01:31:23):
Okay, I'm so glad that because this one. I was like,
she looks like Betsy Ross.

Speaker 1 (01:31:28):
But I think he's like on purpose. I think she's
she does look like them Ross, You are one hundred
percent she is a contemporary of Betsy Ross, now that
I think about it, And that is exactly what this
dress is. She's wearing like a very like in other ways,
so sort of inoffensive, like yeah, it's the most streamedlined
dress in the entire movie. There's almost nothing on it,
no frills, no like except for this like big pink

(01:31:51):
bow tie.

Speaker 2 (01:31:52):
And the rest of the dress is blue, and the
blue exactly matches her earrings, which exactly match Michelle Pfeiffer's eyes.
And it's the whole fact is a little unsettling actually,
it's like an alien tried to make a human.

Speaker 1 (01:32:03):
Well, I think the idea for the costume designer here
is they were trying to make her look as like
stupid as.

Speaker 2 (01:32:08):
Possible or almost scouty yeah or yeah, or.

Speaker 1 (01:32:11):
Like childish even ye, compared to Emily, who's in this
scene wearing like this stunning yellow dress and she's just beautiful, right,
So of course, so the sex worker, Caesar laughs in
her face basically and walks out. So Madame de Torvell
is like, I know who that is, and he goes, really,
I'd be surprised, and she's like, it's a Cortisan. She's
been pointed out to me in the opera. I'm leaving

(01:32:32):
and he's like, why why would you leave just because
I was paying a Cortizan as you were coming in,
And then he convinces her. This is my favorite John
Malcolm has seen in the movie, because he's laughing as
he's saying this because.

Speaker 2 (01:32:43):
He cannot believe the getting away with it and.

Speaker 1 (01:32:46):
The lies he's telling that he's getting away with it.
He convinces Madame de Torvell that Emily was there because
she does charity work like many people in her profession,
she has a she has a soft heart for animals
and children.

Speaker 2 (01:32:57):
Yeah, like many high class courtisans. Yeah, he is one
of our greatest charity workers.

Speaker 1 (01:33:01):
She is also charity worker, yeah exactly. And what he
was doing was simply like donating to her causes, and
he was giving her money, and Madame de Tarvelle slowly,
slowly is like is this true? And then he killed.
He goes in for the kill with I knew you
were coming up. You were announced, remember you see it
dawn on her I was announced.

Speaker 2 (01:33:21):
Yeah, he must.

Speaker 1 (01:33:22):
Be telling the truth. Why else would he lie to
me right now? And she just like drops all the
anger and she goes, please forgive me.

Speaker 2 (01:33:28):
Yeah. It's the same beat as some kind of wonderful
It's the exact same beat. I knew you were coming, yes.

Speaker 1 (01:33:35):
Except this guy's more convincing.

Speaker 2 (01:33:37):
I yeah, well the announced thing really helps. Yeah, that doesn't.
He's like, my servants told me you were coming up,
and I told them to come back, go back and let.

Speaker 1 (01:33:45):
You up, like yeah, like and so like she's like, oh,
you're absolutely right, and so they sleep together again.

Speaker 2 (01:33:50):
I am glad they have that beat though, because it
it makes her less stupid. She's stupid enough for all
she's already bought. But like that, like if she just
bought that whole story about like the charity, the charity,
I'd be like, Okay, you know what, you kind of
deserve it.

Speaker 1 (01:34:03):
Yeah, Like, oh, you are just in denial. You're just
in denial about what you're doing. She apologizes, and she
rushes over and hugs him, and like his face drops,
he drops the facade. Only we can see it. She
can't see it. He just looks horrified and guilty about
what he's just done. So they sleep together again, and
it's this very sweet romantic scene. Valmont's like, when will

(01:34:23):
you start writing to me again? And You're like, damn it, man,
come on, damn it. You can't just be happy for
two seconds. You gotta fuck it, like fuck it all
up again.

Speaker 2 (01:34:30):
Yep. Meanwhile, in case you forgot, Velmont is also still
sleeping with Cecil, so he's in Cecil's bed one night.
They're having a lovely conversation as as two people without
any kind of checkered past would have.

Speaker 1 (01:34:43):
Oh we need to talk about this conversation. He is
telling her about how he once fucked her mother and
how her enthusiasm like over outshined her level.

Speaker 2 (01:34:55):
Yeah, it's like I fucked your mother, but don't worry.
You're better than she is. And Uma Thurman is a
good job because she has this expression on her face
like should I react weirdly to this? Then it's almost
like I'm supposed to laugh, so she laughs.

Speaker 1 (01:35:08):
It's such a good reaction. It's like she's so good
in this movie. I think she genuinely finds it funny.

Speaker 2 (01:35:13):
She also hates her mother.

Speaker 1 (01:35:14):
She has no real relationship to her mother, remember, because
she grew up in a convent, so her mother is
just someone who like paid her bills when she was
little and now is annoying her as a teenager. She
doesn't feel like closeness to the woman, so she doesn't
worry about like how gross it is. They have a
lover in common.

Speaker 2 (01:35:31):
Anyway. He's in Cecil's bed. She's still mooning over Donsony.
Where do you think Dnsony could be? And then there's
like these shutters slam, it's the windy night, and she
kind of she kind of falls off the bed for
some reason. I didn't really follow that.

Speaker 1 (01:35:44):
I think she hears the windows like flutter. She thinks
someone's coming in. Yeah, So she goes to hide, which
is dumb because they're in her house.

Speaker 2 (01:35:50):
They're in her house right, like, they're not.

Speaker 1 (01:35:51):
Like, so if he goes to the door, it's still
not a problem.

Speaker 2 (01:35:55):
But she goes to hide and she has a miscarriage.
So Valmont heads to the Marquis Glenn Close to present
the letter of proof from Torvelle. Remember, yes, you're right
for him, she absolutely did. He goes directly to her
hidden fuck room and he finds Donstony curled up with her,
and he's like, oh, my goodness, would you believe it?

Speaker 1 (01:36:15):
Does she not have like any servants?

Speaker 2 (01:36:18):
He says, He says, he says.

Speaker 1 (01:36:20):
Your your your porter seems to be having an erratic day.

Speaker 2 (01:36:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:36:23):
I'm like like.

Speaker 2 (01:36:24):
He says, your porter seems to think you're not here.
But it's like if he thought the portiony, she wasn't here,
how did you know she was here?

Speaker 1 (01:36:29):
And how did you get in? Yeah, shouldn't the porter
have been like, she's not here, turn around, sir and
go home? Like why is he letting the man into
what happened to her house?

Speaker 2 (01:36:37):
They're best friends and the porter knows when the when
the Marquisse out of town, Valmont comes over to water
the plants.

Speaker 1 (01:36:43):
That's right, that's right. Actually, you know what I forgot.
Valmont has a set of keys, has a set of keys.
He knows that the password to her to her alarm system.
He knows how to unlock every show.

Speaker 2 (01:36:53):
She wrote him a letter, she said, I think I
left the oven on. Can you just go make sure
I turned the oven off? Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:36:58):
He goes there once a month to flush all the toilets,
to make sure everything is still working with you closed.

Speaker 2 (01:37:02):
To drive her diesel tractor around so it doesn't break
down because you have to use a diesel engine, you see,
or it won't work. So uh. He shames Donsony for
not being at cecil side during her illness, and the
young man is immediately frantic with worry over his love.
There's this amazing shot in this scene where the two

(01:37:23):
men are talking and the marquista glen Close is like
lounging in her bed right, and she doesn't really react
when he comes in. She is not concerned at all
that he's seen Donsony. She doesn't care. They're talking, and
the way the mirror on the wall is angled, you
can see her in the mirror watching them. It's so good.
She's like a painting looming over there and she's above

(01:37:44):
them and she's looking down on them. The power dynamic
is told so clearly. Yeah, and it's just an amazing shot.

Speaker 1 (01:37:51):
It's an amazing shot.

Speaker 2 (01:37:52):
I agree. So Valmont shows the Marquista Glen Close that
I have a letter, right, and she's like, oh, let's
go to my dressing room and leave done in the
fuck room. We have we have business.

Speaker 1 (01:38:02):
The Marquisa Glenn Close reads Torvell's letter. She's like, mmm,
I see she writes as badly as she dresses. So good,
such good shade. And she's like, okay, well, congratulations on
your conquest. And he's like, well time to fuck then, yeah,
get let's get down and dirty. And she's like, no, no, no, no no.
I do not care for your demanding tone that you
are taking with me. If I thought you'd be your

(01:38:24):
old self again, your old romantic self, I'd invite you
to visit me one night next week. She says, I
still love you in spite of all your faults and
my complaints. I would love to be your lover again,
but not this version of you. He's like, well, are
you gonna put more conditions on this fucking deal that
we have made, that I have fulfilled.

Speaker 2 (01:38:44):
This literal fucking deal.

Speaker 1 (01:38:45):
Yeah, and she's like, let me tell you a story
of a man I once knew he was making a
total fool of himself over a woman. He was on
the verge of becoming a laughing stock in society. And
when anyone would point this out, he wouldn't. He would
invariably say, it is beyond my control. Now, I wondering
if he remembers his words to her, because he does
know what she's doing, right, he does know that what

(01:39:06):
she's actually telling him here. But like, I wonder if
he knows that she's using his words against him.

Speaker 2 (01:39:11):
I don't think so, because he doesn't see her as
going after him. He thinks that she wants to ruin
Torbelle still, and if he catches that she's using his
words against him, then it's this is personal between us.

Speaker 1 (01:39:26):
I guess, yeah, I don't know either way. He goes
for it, right, so's she's like, she's still telling this
quote unquote story about the guy that she once knew
and another friend. You don't know any of these people.
These are my friends in Niagara Falls. So upon the
advice of another friend, a woman. The man broke up
with his lover, and when the lover protested and demanded

(01:39:48):
an explanation, he simply said, it's beyond my control. And
she's like, she basically is like, you have to now
break up with this woman or I'm not going to
fuck you. Then she says good night to him and
she leaves him.

Speaker 2 (01:39:59):
Valmont directly to Torvell, and he breaks with her. He
tells her he's bored and it's beyond my control. It's
been four months and it's beyond my control. In the
face of her tears and rage, he keeps repeating, it
is beyond my control. Right, So she goes through everything, confusion, disbelief, crying,
raging at him. What is happening?

Speaker 1 (01:40:20):
It's horrible, right, Michelle Pfeiffer must have loved this, like
she's read the script. She's like, finally I.

Speaker 2 (01:40:25):
Can get emotion, I get to cut loose. She throws
herself on the bed. She's weeping, face down in the bed.
He grabs her by the hair and picks her up,
and he tells her that she's given him great pleasure,
but he simply cannot bring himself to regret. Leaving her.
It is beyond my control. And he throws her back
in the bed and leaves.

Speaker 1 (01:40:43):
He actually tells her there's another woman. Yeah, He's like,
there's another woman, a woman I adore. And she says,
I have to give you up. So this is what
we're doing.

Speaker 2 (01:40:51):
Torvella is heartbroken, And this is where I'm really like,
come buckle up. Like she takes ill.

Speaker 1 (01:40:57):
Do you know what's funny? Like I'm gonna cut a
little bit to the later in the movie. She takes ill.
She gets put in a convent. She's being bled by none.
She's like leeching her and I'm like, no one actually
dies of a broken heart. Bitch is just depressed.

Speaker 2 (01:41:10):
What is wrong with her?

Speaker 1 (01:41:12):
They're trying to cure her depression with literal bleeding her
to death.

Speaker 2 (01:41:16):
Maybe it's syphilis. He just gave her a really aggressive
case of syphalis.

Speaker 1 (01:41:21):
Like that would at least make sense. Yeah, right, Like
she just takes to her bed, she doesn't eat. She
becomes sad that he broke her heart, and the doctors
are like, we can make this better. Kill her. So Valmont,
also heartbroken because of what he's just had to do,
returns back to the Marquis to Glen Close in a

(01:41:43):
rage out of control. I'm here to collect on my bargain.
I will not take kindly to being turned down again.
He tells her that I broke with Torvel, and a
cruel smile creeps onto Glenn Close's face as she says,
but how wonderful of you. He says that his reputation
is safe and this entire thing will go down as
one of his greatest successes. In fact, the only thing

(01:42:04):
that could bring him greater glory would be to win
Toravel back, and he like, lets the mask go a
little bit, and you see the desperation in his eyes,
and like, I have to win her back. I have
to win her back. And Glenn Close latches onto it
and is like, no, no, no, you will never be
able to win her back. I don't see this as
a great triumph over her, you see. I think of
it as my greatest triumph over you. And he's like,

(01:42:27):
come now, what what again?

Speaker 2 (01:42:29):
I didn't I didn't catch that you try over me
or me? But we were we were a team. But
what do you mean over on the same side.

Speaker 1 (01:42:35):
And she's like, oh, well, don't you see you desperately
love that woman. You still do, and you were so
ashamed of those feelings that you allowed yourself to treat
her viciously as a punishment for inspiring those emotions in
the first place. Don't you see this was my victory
over you, not over her. She's collateral damage. Yep, my

(01:42:56):
manipulations have proven something that I've always suspected. Vanity and
happiness are incompatible. She speaks with like the like dead
tone of a serial killer.

Speaker 2 (01:43:06):
Yep, it's so good. Valmont's temper starts to rise. He shouts,
it's your turn to make a sacrifice. The affair with
Dnsony must end, which is just a stupid move, right
because she doesn't care about Dnsony. I mean a little bit,
but not really.

Speaker 1 (01:43:22):
She's using Dawnsony to get him, make him jealousy, and
the good thing is it seems to work.

Speaker 2 (01:43:26):
It seems have worked. She informs him that one reason
I never remarried, despite a quite bewildering range of offers,
was the determination never again to be ordered around. They
are both shouting now. He slaps her. She shows almost
no reaction, and she hisses, haven't you had enough of
bullying women for the time? Being ooh. He tells her

(01:43:48):
that he will be spending the night and she says, oh,
I've made other arrangements. I'm so sorry. A calm falls
over both of them and they sit down, and suddenly
Valmont seems to be more in control, and he says, oh,
I'm so sorry. I forgot to tell you Donsony won't
be coming. I told him he really needed to make
a choice between you and Cecil. And would you believe

(01:44:09):
he didn't even hesitate. I believe he's planning on coming
here tomorrow to offer you his warmest regards and deepest
feelings of friendship. Ooh.

Speaker 1 (01:44:22):
She does not take this well. No, the Marquis has
like a moment of pain across her face and she's like,
oh my god, he bested me. Yeah, and she goes, okay,
that's enough. Vaumont stands up and he says I agree.
Shall we go to the bedroom? And she recovers and
plays dumb and she says, shall we what? And he
roars that they've made an arrangement and he will not

(01:44:42):
allow himself to be taken advantage. A moment longer. Now
he's screaming, and she stays calm. She reminds him, Remember
I'm better at this than you are, and he says,
a simple yes or no is all I'm asking. But
you should know that a denial is a declaration of war.
Like we made a fucking deal. I did something horrible
for you, and now you are going to pay me

(01:45:03):
back with the worst sex of both of our lives.

Speaker 2 (01:45:07):
I actually think the sex might be pretty excited.

Speaker 1 (01:45:09):
Either going to be the best sex of both the lives.

Speaker 2 (01:45:11):
Or the absolute It's one end of the spectrum and they.

Speaker 1 (01:45:14):
Both gonna feel the exact same thing. That's the only
good thing. It's either mutually gonna be wonderful or mutually
gonna be horrible.

Speaker 2 (01:45:20):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:45:21):
An eager, hungry smile plays across her face and he
tells her a single word is all that is required.
Her voice softens and she goes, all right, war by
the way, small detail, but this is wonderful. This the
dress she is wearing in this scene is the exact
same dress that Madonna is wearing in the MTV Video
Awards in nineteen ninety when they were doing Vogue set

(01:45:43):
in This World and they were using costumes from the movie.

Speaker 2 (01:45:47):
I know that is the dress I pulled it up.

Speaker 1 (01:45:49):
Side by side to make sure, and I'm like, it's
the same dress. It is Madonna's wearing. Glenn closes dress
from this scene.

Speaker 2 (01:45:54):
All right. Smash cut to a wide shot of two
men dueling in the street as we hear the marquistic
close in voiceover. She's writing a letter to Donsony saying
that Valmont has been sleeping with Cecil. Right, this is
the opening salvo in this war.

Speaker 1 (01:46:08):
He calls Valmont her more regular lover. Yes, whoa damn.

Speaker 2 (01:46:12):
I have a tiny complaint about this. I would love
this war to have played out longer. I very rarely
say want longer in a movie, but like, like, I
would have loved two moves in counter moves before it
escalated to this point. But I also I also understand
the idea of like we've lit the fuse, just let
it explode. Yeah, right, So we zoom in on the
fight and we see that it's Valmont versus Donsony. They

(01:46:34):
are dueling in the street. Valmont is clearly the better fighter,
but he is constantly distracted by sudden flashes of Torvell's face,
the knowledge that her health has rapidly deteriorated from this
monstrous case of gonorrhea that he gave her.

Speaker 1 (01:46:48):
No, from a case of a bunch of nuns just
poking her.

Speaker 2 (01:46:50):
With needles while they fight. We cut to Torvelle convalescing
in the convent. Volange and Cecil visit, and she says,
I'm dying because I would believe you, and.

Speaker 1 (01:47:01):
Also because these nuns are literally killing me.

Speaker 2 (01:47:04):
Can you ask them to stop poking me with swords?

Speaker 1 (01:47:08):
Can you stop bleeding me for a fucking minute so
I can breathe?

Speaker 2 (01:47:11):
Do you notice how I'm blending in with the sheets
because I have no blood left in me.

Speaker 1 (01:47:17):
She's been crying all day, bleed to death. What was medicine?
She would have been better off just crying herself to death.

Speaker 2 (01:47:25):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:47:25):
So we cut back to the duel, and the fight
end suddenly when Valmont, thinking about Madame de Torvelle and
all the things he has done, drops his sword and
turns around right as Dawsony is rushing at him and
ends up killing himself using Dawsony.

Speaker 2 (01:47:40):
I disagree that that was his intentional choice.

Speaker 1 (01:47:43):
Oh no, he drops his sword.

Speaker 2 (01:47:45):
No he doesn't, Yes he does.

Speaker 1 (01:47:46):
Oh are we gonna rewatch the scene right now?

Speaker 2 (01:47:48):
Do we have to rewatch the scene, and I remember
he's like playing with his sword and then he turns
around drops it. We're gonna pause, play Vogue.

Speaker 1 (01:48:04):
Okay, we're back.

Speaker 2 (01:48:05):
We're back. Erica was right. He does drop the sword.

Speaker 1 (01:48:07):
He does drop the sword. He's killing himself via Dauntony.

Speaker 2 (01:48:10):
Basically I had not thought of it that way, but
it's a better story that it's a better stort.

Speaker 1 (01:48:13):
Well, he also has the letters queued up to give
Dawsony now stained with his own blood. Imagine getting that
in society. Imagine being at some boring fucking party and
someone's like, guess what, I have the last letters the
of the of Valmont before he died, splattered in his blood.

Speaker 2 (01:48:30):
And it's also it's also the only move that the
Marquista glen Close could not anticipate.

Speaker 1 (01:48:35):
Yeah, because it's so intense, right, like, how could she
even We're just having fun, Yeah, come on all right.
As he's bleeding out in one of the longest deaths ever,
in like a six minute death scene.

Speaker 2 (01:48:46):
He at least looks more injured than Meg Ryan does
in the City of Angels.

Speaker 1 (01:48:51):
And his wig stays on. He gets like run through
with the sword, falls into the snow. It's like it's
like heaved up by as a lad and lady You're like, sir,
are you alive? Get the surgeon and the wig just
stays wigging.

Speaker 2 (01:49:04):
If he was planning this, maybe he just told look,
just glue it down. This has to stay on.

Speaker 1 (01:49:08):
Yeah, Aslain should have known this was coming. He's like,
wait a minute, why you're not gonna do a wig reveal.

Speaker 2 (01:49:14):
If you are a domestic who is responsible for putting
on your master or mistress's wig and they tell you
to glue it on.

Speaker 1 (01:49:21):
One day, beware glued on extra tape.

Speaker 2 (01:49:23):
They may be planning some hardsthing horrible.

Speaker 1 (01:49:26):
Yeah, you make sure you get yours and like pack
it up before you leave, all right. So he gives
Dawnsony the letters that have been exchanged between him and
the Marquis to Glenn close. He also warns Dawsony like
you have to be careful of her and Kenas is
a great line where he's like, you must permit me
to treat with skepticism anything you say about her. And well,

(01:49:51):
Mom's like, you're gonna think differently after you read these
blood soaked letters and I'm handing you. Yeah, he asked
Dawstony to take a message from him to Torvelle, telling
her that it's lucky for her that he's gone and
he is glad to not have to live without her,
tell her that her love was the only real happiness
that I have ever known. And then Dawson He's like, oh, no,
what have I done? He has this moment of like,
oh shit, I killed a guy, and Aslene's like, well, yes, yes,

(01:50:15):
you did.

Speaker 2 (01:50:17):
What am I supposed to do? Now?

Speaker 1 (01:50:19):
Like I am out of work thanks to you?

Speaker 2 (01:50:22):
So shit?

Speaker 1 (01:50:24):
And Valmond knows, no, no, no, leave the boy alone.
He had good cause. I don't believe that's something anyone
has ever been able to say about me. And then
he goes.

Speaker 2 (01:50:34):
And he dies. Dahnsony, true to his word, rushes to
torvel to pass on the message. She goes, draw the curtains,
and then she dies too. Bye Torvell. We cut to
the main event. We cut to the Marquis de glenn
Close's house. She has gone Ferrell in her grief over

(01:50:54):
the death of Elmont. She screams incoherently. She tears at
her clothing, She rampages through her house, throwing chairs into mirrors.
She collapses sobbing, right, so good?

Speaker 1 (01:51:06):
Yeah, she is so good.

Speaker 2 (01:51:07):
We cut to the opera. The Marquista Glen Close appears
in her box and the crowd suddenly quiets. She's not
sure why they're quiet, and then they start to boo
and hiss and they start to clap their fans against
the railing.

Speaker 1 (01:51:20):
We got to bring this back. Yeah, why don't we
do this? Why don't we do this more often? We
gotta like, like someone walks in and you don't.

Speaker 2 (01:51:26):
Like, you just go? Maybe that's what we need politicians
to start doing that, Like, I know some of them
have to be like serious, but the chaos demons that
in our politics. Right now, listen, listen, back door Broncos,
stage door Salies. This is what we're doing. We're bringing
back hissing, hiss, hiss Dahnsony has revealed all the letters
that Vaumont gave him to the public, and her reputation

(01:51:48):
has been destroyed. The thing that she spent her entire
life building, cultivating, cultivating, making sure that she was she
was protected from anything, was her reputation. She turns, she
walked out, She almost slips as she walks out, and
then we end as we began with the Marquista Glenn
close in her mirror. This time her face is fully

(01:52:09):
made up, her wig is on, she takes out her
cloth and she starts to wipe her face clean of
makeup as she silently weeps, And we have a long,
slow fade out, almost enough to rival mommy dearest, like it's.

Speaker 1 (01:52:20):
So good though, this one is green.

Speaker 2 (01:52:22):
It's really good. Yeah. Yeah, And that's the end of
le Perfect. It's perfect.

Speaker 1 (01:52:30):
Can I tell you how the play ends? Yeah, the
play ends not with the scene at all, with a
drawing room and people playing cards and being bored and
being like, well Valmont's dead, moving on to the next thing,
And then slowly a guillotine, like a silhouette of a
guillotine appears on the wall behind all of them.

Speaker 2 (01:52:48):
Why as they just move as they're just.

Speaker 1 (01:52:50):
Moving on with their lives, and like, well, anyway, what's
the next scandal we can all talk about?

Speaker 2 (01:52:55):
Yeah, yeah, that's really effective.

Speaker 1 (01:52:57):
That's so much better I think than the way the movie,
because the movie kind of takes the French Revolution completely
out of you.

Speaker 2 (01:53:02):
It doesn't even what's coming for the Marquise is even
less pleasant than what she has.

Speaker 1 (01:53:07):
Just he doesn't really engage with the decades of what
we've just seen, like, well, it's all it engages in, honestly,
and it doesn't like show you any like because even
Azalin is like he's in their, their whole world. He's
like you don't cut to Asalon being like, can you
believe these fuckers? We've got to change the whole system here.

Speaker 2 (01:53:27):
We're gonna tear some shit down.

Speaker 1 (01:53:29):
Feudal system sucks.

Speaker 2 (01:53:33):
All right. That is the end of the movie. Everyone
stick around, We write back with our random observations and
final rankings, and we're back Erica. Do you have any
more cutting bond mots? To highlight from this film?

Speaker 1 (01:53:55):
There is a moment in the beginning of the film
when Glenn Gloss is getting dressed by her army of
servants and there is one extra who's been tasked with
powdering Glenn Close's breasts. Uh huh, And I was just like,
oh to be that extra.

Speaker 2 (01:54:08):
To powder the breasts of Glenn Close.

Speaker 1 (01:54:09):
To be like, oh, I wasn't dangerously was just a
featured extra. I didn't have any lines or anything. And
they're like, really, what did you do? Oh, you'll see
me in the beginning of the movie.

Speaker 2 (01:54:18):
I powdered Glenn Close's tipslag everyone, everyone, get your back
braces out. This one's gonna hurt. The marcuistic Glen Close
tells her your marriage has been arranged. She's like, oh
my god, to who and she goes to this guy
bestide and she goes who is he? And she goes, well,
he's thirty six and she goes, thirty six, he's an
old man. Absolutely rude, violence, violence against us.

Speaker 1 (01:54:44):
This movie's chosen violence. It has my last one again.
The Devilannge Women, Swoozy Kurts. There's a scene when they're
at Rosemand's house and they're watching the opera singer and
they're like cutting to all the characters and like what
they're actually doing, And they cut to Swoozy Kurtz's face
and she's watching the performance and she's trying to figure

(01:55:06):
out if she likes it or not. And she's like smiling,
but then she like scrunches up her nose and then
she looks really confused. She's like, what has happened? I
don't is this Italian? She's giving so much, She's giving
with both hands so much so that when they cut
to like the main three like doing their thing in
the background. I'm like, I don't. Can I go back
to Swoozie for a.

Speaker 2 (01:55:26):
Second, because can we stay with Swuszy? She was giving
so much. Speaking of Swussy, we've already discussed hissing, but
my last one is just that there's this moment. It's
a moment. It means nothing. They obviously like put it
in the movie for fun. I think it's when he
when he leaves Torvelle, Right, he can't seduced her, and
he stops himself and he leaves. Yeah, and he walks
out into the hall, and like there's been a commotion, right,

(01:55:48):
so Madame de Valencee has heard. She comes out and
she's in her like her nightcap and her gown, and
Belmont sees her and he just goes kiss her. Look,
you can be mad at her for telling the truth
about you, but have a little self awareness. Just walk away. Man.

Speaker 1 (01:56:06):
Oh no, but I think again, we should bring hissing back.
I like it so much.

Speaker 2 (01:56:11):
We should listeners. We didn't explain by the way. We
decided on the Patreon that our listeners are called backdoor
broncos and stage door sallies. Those are non gendered terms
you can identify as either one. Oh, for sure, Yeah,
but hissing, it's really it's being underused in today's society.

Speaker 1 (01:56:29):
Next time a man says something untoward to me on
the sidewalk as I'm walking past him, I'm not going
to ignore him. I'm not gonna say fuck you. I'm
not gonna do what I normally do. I'm gonna turn
around and just go with the fanciest flourish ever. Just go, sir,
and just I think that'll terrify him.

Speaker 2 (01:56:47):
Yeah, I don't even think you should say sir, Just
keep hissing. Just go, yeah, like you've become like a
cat or a snake. Yes, yeah, perform the animal.

Speaker 1 (01:56:55):
I think I think that that will terrify the man.
I will, I will. If it happens, I will report back.

Speaker 2 (01:57:01):
Okay, I can't wait, Erica, how are we gonna rank
dangerous liaisons.

Speaker 1 (01:57:07):
One to ten? Nuns who are not medically trained doctors.

Speaker 2 (01:57:12):
Nuns who has taken what frankly look like rusty iron
tools to cut open Michelle feif first, she showed up.

Speaker 1 (01:57:18):
There with it like a headache and a sadness. That's
all she showed up with. She's like, I'm sad because
I got broken up with.

Speaker 2 (01:57:23):
Yeah, that's it. Can I stay in the convent for
a little while and beg God for forgiveness and get
back in touch with my real self before my husband
gets back.

Speaker 1 (01:57:31):
And instead of them being like, you haven't eaten in
three days, you should eat something, they're like, bleed, We're going.

Speaker 2 (01:57:37):
To bleed you. Maybe they started bleeding her when she
opened her legs and her pussy started saying, nothing compares
to you.

Speaker 1 (01:57:46):
The sounds of a broken hearted pussy. No, then come
was open you someone that I used to know.

Speaker 2 (01:57:57):
I love that, she said. It sings really like modern song.
It sings. It sings all too well by Taylor's.

Speaker 1 (01:58:06):
Sweet Wait, lean in her pussy's trying to tell us something.

Speaker 2 (01:58:26):
I'll stop it there before we own any money, stop it?
Oh lordie, how about one to ten human desks?

Speaker 1 (01:58:35):
Oh? I you know I got I'm going to hire
a sex worker just to do a human.

Speaker 2 (01:58:39):
Desk, to see if we can write legibly.

Speaker 1 (01:58:40):
There's anyone out there? No, you know what, I'm not soliciting,
never minds not publicly, not actually solictening for a human desk.

Speaker 2 (01:58:49):
That is someone's kink.

Speaker 1 (01:58:50):
That is so I mean, I'm learning I'm learning things.
You know what, I would have to buy paper. I
don't think I own paper. There is no way that
ink plot, that ink well isn't going to just like
ye spill.

Speaker 2 (01:59:00):
All over my Let me tell you something. We have
to expand the listenership of this podcast because there is
someone out there whose dream you could make come true. Yeah,
and with this request, and they will fly here from wherever,
whensoever they may.

Speaker 1 (01:59:16):
There is someone out there for whom being my human
desk is their destiny.

Speaker 2 (01:59:20):
Yep, it's their destiny. Ah.

Speaker 1 (01:59:26):
How about one to ten John Malkovich's guide to Chicago's
Best dish Pizza places day?

Speaker 2 (01:59:31):
Have you got you guys? Get that? It's an annual report.

Speaker 1 (01:59:33):
It's an annual report. Yeah, and this year I would
say Bartoli's. Bartoli is where I would that's up from
last year. I think up from last year or sometimes
you know, you got to go to Labriola.

Speaker 2 (01:59:45):
I look forward to the emails we receive from Chicago people.
People can't see Erica's face, but she's she's facially acting.
John Malcovitch at me right.

Speaker 1 (01:59:54):
Now, there's always like a purse slipping moment for no reason.
I'm John Malkovich, the most serious actor of a generation.

Speaker 2 (02:00:07):
How about one to ten boring pussies or heartbroken pussies.

Speaker 1 (02:00:09):
Heartbroken pussy pussies that open up and just sing and
just saying. There's a five starting in Ma.

Speaker 2 (02:00:21):
She opens her legs and it's just you say, I
only hear what I want to. Don't listen hard, don't
pay close open, can't you the riathon that you run
into anyone anywhere? Don't understand if you really care I'm
hearing nakedif.

Speaker 1 (02:00:37):
No, no, no, close your legs.

Speaker 2 (02:00:43):
I think it should be this one.

Speaker 1 (02:00:44):
I think it should be this one.

Speaker 2 (02:00:46):
Oh do you want to go first? Or shall I
go first?

Speaker 1 (02:00:48):
I'll go first on this one.

Speaker 2 (02:00:49):
Hit me.

Speaker 1 (02:00:51):
It doesn't age that well. Actually I thought it would
because of the seventeen eighties of it all, Like I
said before, because it's like, well, what are we supposed
to take gender politics from one thousand years ago? Seriously?
But it's not like they are copying the book verbatim
and putting it on the screen. It's an interpretation of
a text right, so much so that the film Valmont

(02:01:14):
I haven't seen it in a while, but it's like
the structure of it and The plot is roughly the same,
but all the scenes and all the dialogue are wildly different.
This one is much more stylized. So again, because I'm
taking it as a piece of art that was written
in the nineteen eighties and performed in the nineteen eighties
and filmed that rape scene with Cecil and the like

(02:01:34):
one eighty, that character does the whiplash of that, it
doesn't age. It's a real clunker. It's hard to it's
hard to come back from, like not just the scene itself,
but the next scene where she's like locked herself in
her room while he's banging on the door and saying
let me in, let me in, and she's weeping and
writing a letter to her friends. She looks terrified. So yeah,

(02:01:56):
so that makes it really it doesn't age. Well, it's
just simply an age. Well, other things that we generally
look for are simply not there. But that I will
I will absolutely give a pass too, because I don't
know like how much diversity we would have had in
the seventeen eighties.

Speaker 2 (02:02:12):
Yeah, we knew what we were doing when we decided
on period piece as a as a theme.

Speaker 1 (02:02:16):
There are people of color living in France, but they
are gonna be servants. I think at this point I
actually love that all the servants are like English and Scottish. Yeah,
and all the aristocrats are American because it kind of
just like takes you out of it completely and it's like, well,
this isn't This obviously is not real, but there's like
an extra what an extra? Well, although if you believe
the fucking book, it was real, but like there's an

(02:02:37):
extra level of remove from it all because you're hearing
these like very American accents.

Speaker 2 (02:02:42):
Right.

Speaker 1 (02:02:43):
Is there any gay stuff in the film? No, not
that I'm aware of.

Speaker 2 (02:02:46):
No.

Speaker 1 (02:02:46):
That's again where at least Cruel Cruel Intentions has it
way better than this. Cruel Intentions is not bad, yuys.

Speaker 2 (02:02:55):
The worst thing about Cruel Intentions is those pants that
reach Withtherspoon wears the end.

Speaker 1 (02:02:59):
Oh, but also so I think they have an issue.
I kind of remember us talking about that first Valmont.
This is a sex scene in that one too, and
it's it's the same thing. They don't They don't correct it,
and it's a fairly easy thing to correct. Obviously, terrific
roles for women. The writing is spectacular. I cannot recommend
this movie enough. I think it's a great movie to watch.

(02:03:19):
So I'm gonna give it a four.

Speaker 2 (02:03:22):
Oh, okay, I'm gonna give it a.

Speaker 1 (02:03:24):
Four out of ten. Pussys it open and are like,
can I show you pictures from my camping trip? I
have a slide show. It's got four hundred pictures in it.
It's really interesting. So here's the Grand Canyon.

Speaker 2 (02:03:37):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (02:03:37):
Here it is at eight fifteen in the morning.

Speaker 2 (02:03:39):
Did they hand you like a viewfinder?

Speaker 1 (02:03:40):
Here it is at eight seventeen in the morning. No,
it's not even a viewfinder. There's this this vagina's holding
one of those slicky things and it's actually using like
an old timey slide show projector practice. It's using its
key gold muscles to like actually go click click. Here's
my husband Jason on a on a burrow. Oh they

(02:04:00):
have burrows.

Speaker 2 (02:04:02):
Click click.

Speaker 1 (02:04:02):
Here's my son Jason Junior on another burrow.

Speaker 2 (02:04:07):
Click click. All right, all right, uh, I agree with
you what you're saying. I think I think you're right.
Like it's interesting. The sexual assault itself is not what
ages poorly. It's not fun to watch, it's not great,
But like you can put a sexual assault in your movie,
that's fine. It's how you deal with the aftermath of it. Yeah,

(02:04:28):
that is where the movie is. It's odd because it
starts out so strong that she's okay, she's gonna be horrified,
and then it it like a light switch goes the
other direction. If you saw her journey to the eager
participant in this much more, then I think you could
even keep the scene as it was. You just need

(02:04:49):
to because right now it's whiplash inducing. It's like black
and white boom boom, like wait, wait, what just happened? Okay,
this is where we are, and it's probably just like
cut for time. I don't think there's anything else to
really ding the movie on.

Speaker 1 (02:05:01):
Well, there's one other thing to doing the movie on
John Malkovich, but that's not an aging it's not an
aging well thing, it's just man like, yeah, cast someone else, Yeah,
it's else.

Speaker 2 (02:05:11):
It's a weird, weird casting choice. I don't I don't
think it ages poorly. And again I don't think he's
not trying. It's not for lack of effort. It's almost
like there's too much effort.

Speaker 1 (02:05:20):
I guess it's also just like a director, like if
I were directing the movie, i'd be looking at his
performance and be like, we have to make adjustments because
this isn't work.

Speaker 2 (02:05:28):
This isn't working fundamentally.

Speaker 1 (02:05:30):
It's just it just doesn't work.

Speaker 2 (02:05:31):
Yeah. Yeah, And I wonder if there was something because
I was thinking about this, like is there something that
director is going for in this performance that that like
he's trying to say something about the time like you
were saying, it's the patriarchy.

Speaker 1 (02:05:47):
You don't have to try as hard, doesn't have to
try its hard, but he doesn't have to have the
two faces the way she does.

Speaker 2 (02:05:52):
But then I think we need to lampshade that we
need to put we need we need to put the
hat on that hat and tell us because otherwise it
just comes off weird.

Speaker 1 (02:05:58):
It's just I do not unders san why Michelle Fife
for false.

Speaker 2 (02:06:01):
With this guy? Yep at all. That's where it comes
down to. Yeah, yeah, so that sums it up. I'm
gonna go a little higher than you. I'm gonna give
it a five. Outside of aging, well, it's such a
fun movie. Like it's it's one of those things where
you're like, look, period pieces can be fun.

Speaker 1 (02:06:13):
Oh, they're like deliciously fun. It's like a really scandalous way.
I love it.

Speaker 2 (02:06:17):
Yeah, like don't don't don't think they're boring just their
in period clothes. This is this is like dark and
twisted and funny and you know, satirical almost right, So
I really like the movie. I will give it a five.
I think that that one scene it's it's it's like
the wedding banquet, where like that one scene really took
a crap on this movie, and like other than that,
it's it's it's as far as aging. Well, fine, so

(02:06:38):
I will give it a five, a five out of ten.
Vaginas that when you open up, they just full throatedly
burst into It's the end of the road. No cad left.

Speaker 1 (02:06:54):
It's sunnatural role. You've been along to me, I've been
along to close. You think that's the last thing the
nun's heard before she died?

Speaker 2 (02:07:06):
Definitely all right, So I'm not gonna offer a palate cleanser,
are you No?

Speaker 1 (02:07:13):
I mean this movie is fun. I highly recommend you know,
obviously there's a slightly triggering scene in the middle, like
if it's if that's a problem for you, fully understand.

Speaker 2 (02:07:24):
I will say we're talking a lot about the scene.
It's not graphic like it. I mean to say, they
fade out or before they get to like any actual
sexual It's.

Speaker 1 (02:07:35):
Actually my issue with both this movie and the wedding banquet.
It's like, don't fade out, like if like be explicit
about what's about to happen, so then I know, like again,
because the other fix would be like he goes down
on her instead of what I think is happening, and
like maybe she obviously that is also an assault if
someone says no, don't you know, don't do that, but
like it would it makes her like understanding of her

(02:07:56):
body at least slightly more under It just makes her
orgasa and she's like, oh, and like let us see
that moment in her face where she's like I said no,
I said no, but wait.

Speaker 2 (02:08:07):
Hang on, yeah, hang on, Yeah, what.

Speaker 1 (02:08:09):
The fuck is this? Then, like the conflict that she
feels about it, yeah, makes more sense and looked again,
that's not okay, Like it's not it's not an okay
thing to do to someone. But in the term, in
terms of this story, it makes it a much easier
pill to swallow. Having said that, for the fourteenth time,
no watch this movie or cruel intentions. I remember us

(02:08:29):
really enjoying cruel intentions.

Speaker 2 (02:08:30):
Zara Michelle Geller is so good and cruel intentions. Oh right.
The problem I want to fuck the problem.

Speaker 1 (02:08:36):
With cruel intentions, I think was we were we did
not care for the Cecil performance. Yeah, because that's right
if you listen to our cruel intentions recap watch the
movie first, because like the Sma Blair, love her, love
Somelma Blair. But the choices that were made.

Speaker 2 (02:08:53):
Well, because they cast an eighteen year old and asked
her to play fourteen and I believe we said, it
comes out like she's mentally chilling.

Speaker 1 (02:08:58):
She comes across mentally challenged and yeah, and it's like, well, okay,
this is not okay.

Speaker 2 (02:09:04):
What are we saying here? Ha ha? All right everyone listening,
all you Backdoor Broncos and stage Jars Sallyes. You can
follow us on Blue Sky, Threads, and Instagram, which is
the only platform where we accept request specifically for our
monthly themes. We have a tea public shop you can
get podcast swag, and we would love it if you
would leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts or

(02:09:25):
any podcasting platform that you may use. If you do that,
just like NHL twenty sixteen and Marvelette three Gray from
the top of this episode, let us know you did it.
We'll send you a that age Well tope bag. And
if you've always thought I don't know how to do that,
this is too much, we've done some of that for you.
You can go to rate this podcast dot com slash
that age Well. I've left a link in the show

(02:09:46):
notes for that. In the notes of this here episode
you can follow the instructions there.

Speaker 1 (02:09:51):
That Aged Well is produced and edited by Paul Kola.
We would like to thank Angie, Luis, Jan Spencer, Nick Parker,
Karen jen and Nicole for reaching out and letting us
know what they want to hear. Honestly, genuinely thank you,
because if this movie even showed up twice, I was
gonna say, yes, yeah, I was gonna be like with
that one. We're doing that one.

Speaker 2 (02:10:09):
Yep. We've been wanting to do this one for a while.

Speaker 1 (02:10:11):
Yeah. So I'm really happy at least at least some
of you agree with me on that. If you want
to have a say in the topics we discussed, join
our Patreon guys. I think Paul's mentioned it once or twice.
Reinforcement every patron gets to vote in an exclusive monthly
poll to determine one of our subjects. So head on
over to patreon dot com slash That aged Well podcast

(02:10:33):
to find out more. This month was Austin Versus Austin
and you'll find out in a few weeks what one.

Speaker 2 (02:10:39):
For some reason you said Austin versus Austin, and my
brain went to Powers and I was like, what we're doing?

Speaker 1 (02:10:44):
All We're doing a whole month of the Austin Powers movies.

Speaker 2 (02:10:47):
I guess those are kind of period pieces.

Speaker 1 (02:10:50):
They are. And as you may know, some tears on
our Patreon come with thanks from a podcast character, and
today we're hearing from the one the Great Earth a.

Speaker 2 (02:11:01):
Kit mm ratings, darlings, It's so lovely to be back
with you, and I'm delighted to have this chance to
thank Christina Kettman for being a patron of That Aged Well.
I know they've just done their first Bond movie on
this radio program. Did you know that I myself was
considered for the role of Pussy Galore in Goldfinger? Ooh yes,

(02:11:26):
Sean Connery himself wanted only me, but the producers were
terrified by the amount of pussy that I was serving,
they said to me Earth. Her name is Pussy Galore.
But Galore is insufficient to describe the incandescence of what
you are presenting. So I said, listen, mister Broccoli, because
that is the actual name of the producers of the

(02:11:47):
Bond movies. They are the Broccolis. Mister Broccoli, I said,
do not deny your audience the chance to bask in
the glow of my star. When a simple script change
can help. Perhaps her name could be Pussy Maxima, or
Pussy Exorbitants or Pussy Cascade. Alas they were too cowardly

(02:12:11):
and the world suffered for it. So thank you, Christina,
from a catwoman to a catman. Please accept the gratitude
of these two kittens who are so happy to have
you listening. Ooh fancy, she would have been great and
gold Finger.

Speaker 1 (02:12:28):
She would be great in anything, anything she wouldn't create
in dangerous liaisons. Oh can you imagine if she had
been Madame de Torvelle.

Speaker 2 (02:12:36):
Yeah, what a dream? What a dream? Now you understand
why why her sexual energy is just too much?

Speaker 1 (02:12:45):
I never thought this could happen to me. I'm so
proud of my marriage.

Speaker 2 (02:12:54):
All right, Erica, any final thoughts on dangerous liaisons.

Speaker 1 (02:12:57):
I'm so sorry, Paul, I'm just too busy looking through
my pottery born catalog of incompetence. It's a bunch. It's
a bunch of people trying to put together dressers and failing.

Speaker 2 (02:13:16):
You know that they do leeches again.

Speaker 1 (02:13:18):
Now, what's where.

Speaker 2 (02:13:19):
It's like there are there actually are medicinal there is
something I read something about it.

Speaker 1 (02:13:23):
It sounds Brooklyn. That sounds like the most fucking that
that is a thing that like, three years from now,
we're going to find out that there was a cult
in Brooklyn doing this

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Dangerous Liaisons (1988) - Deep Dish Pizza, Human Desks & a Catalog of Incompetence

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Dangerous Liaisons (1988) - Deep Dish Pizza, Human Desks & a Catalog of Incompetence