Feed Drop: Sex Ed with DB - 13 Going On 30 - That Aged Well

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, listeners, fun little feed drop for you here. I
got to join Danielle Bezeleel or dB as her friends
call her, to talk about the Aughts classic thirteen going
on thirty on her special series rom Com Bomb. Now look,
I know a lot of you like thirteen going on thirty.
Don't worry. This doesn't mean that Eric and I will

(00:20):
never cover it on the main feed. Think of this
as an operatif for the eventual main feed episode that
we will. We will definitely do it. So let me
tell you about dB. dB is the host of sex
Ed with dB. That is a feminist podcast bringing you
all the sex said you never got in high school.
And listeners, I know you didn't get it because I
didn't get it. And if I didn't get it, you
didn't get it. That's how this works. We all got

(00:41):
our sex ed from our friends and porn, neither of
which are reliable. But dB centers diverse experts in the field.
She wants everyone, everyone to have comprehensive, inclusive, pleasure centered,
medically accurate sex education. Now look, Erica and I we
do a lot of talking about We do a lot
of advice giving about sex. We do a lot of

(01:02):
joking about sex. I'm pretty sure we would both say
that medical accuracy is not our forte, but for dB
it is. She's gonna give you medical accuracy. And she's also,
get this, a pleasure expert. And I think we could
all use anything that would up our pleasure.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
In the current world.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
We all deserve a little more pleasure that you know
what that is, listeners, dear listeners, That is, as Janet
Jackson might say, the pleasure principle. So please enjoy this episode.
I'm thirteen, going on thirty, and then check out all
of DB's work and Erica and I will see you
right back here on Monday. It's one other thing about

(01:45):
the movie, and that is the line, do you want
to see my ID?

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Totally have it?

Speaker 3 (01:48):
I totally have it. Welcome to rom Combomb, a sex
Said with dB podcast series where in every episode we
go under the covers with a beloved rom com, strip
away its hidden toxic messages and rewrite the script on
love and sex. We talk a lot about sex education,

(02:14):
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(04:00):
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for ten percent off at uber loop dot com. Hello, Hello,
welcome back to another episode of romcombomb. I am your host, dbe,

(04:22):
sex educator, pleasure expert, and romcom critic, and today we
are jumping into sparkly eyeshadow, questionable age gaps, and the
fantasy of fast forwarding puberty in thirteen going on thirty.
I am so excited, beautiful listener, that you are here
and here to help us dissect thirteen going on thirty

(04:43):
is the hilarious and thoughtful Paul Koa co host of
the podcast That Aged Dwell, where he and co host
Erica Vialba challenged the movies they grew up on. So
perfect fit that you're here today.

Speaker 4 (04:56):
Welcome Paul, How are you?

Speaker 2 (04:58):
Thank you? Applause, applause, applause. I'm here.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
I'm ready to get into this movie that I've loved
for years without ever really rewatching.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
So it was quite it was it was fun to
do it this way.

Speaker 3 (05:09):
Oh my god, I'm so excited that you're here. I
feel like thirteen going on thirty is such an iconic
film that most everybody in the world question Mark has
seen if they have existed in.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
Our So funny.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
I was talking to my co host Erica, and in
our show, she is the horror fan and I am
the rom com fan. Oh okay, so she has she
will not see rom coms, so I will, like, outside
of like when Harry met Sally or something, she hasn't
seen them, so she hasn't seen this movie.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
And I was like, oh no, I wish you could
come on.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
She's she's just can't, she's busy, she's she's fine, she'll
be on our show on Monday. But I was like,
you would actually like this one, I think, right, she's
very like questioning the tropes of the genre, which is
what we're here to do.

Speaker 4 (05:51):
Exactly, That's precisely what we're here to do.

Speaker 3 (05:54):
Yeah, and here is a little trivia teaser that we
are going to start with that we will give more
inform later. But several members of the Six Chicks aka
the Click in this film that bullies Jenna in middle school,
that Tom Tom aka adult Lucy is in went on
to achieve major stardom. So stick around to find out

(06:16):
who out of the Six Chicks did besides Judy Greer
of course, well obviously obviously. So yeah, wait, and to
stick around, and you're going to be very surprised, Paul,
I'm sure you are.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
I am going to be surprised. I genuinely don't know.
This is very exciting.

Speaker 4 (06:29):
This is unclear to me.

Speaker 1 (06:31):
You are a pleasure expert. This is exactly what I
wanted I got here.

Speaker 4 (06:34):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (06:36):
What is your relationship to this film? Tell me about
when you first saw it, what's your feeling behind it?

Speaker 4 (06:41):
Tell me everything?

Speaker 1 (06:42):
All right, Well, I was an Alias fan, loved Alias
so Garner, Jennifer Garner. You know she's making her leap
to movie stardom with this, right, and it comes out
and it gets good reviews. I remember, I remember the
Entertainment Weekly review was very positive. Oh I'm sure Mark
Ruffalo was our little like theater kid from New York
who was like a huge star in theater and he

(07:03):
was going to make it big and he got his
glow up and became like this romantic lead. Yes, and
he and of course Judy Greeer. I mean, oh my god,
we always love Judy Greear.

Speaker 4 (07:12):
She needs she needs more credit. I have to tell you.
She is in everything, and she especially.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
In everything, and she never misses never, never once has missed,
not one. Yeah, so I this came out. I absolutely
went to see it in the theater with friends, loved it,
maybe saw it one more time, and then have not
watched it since two thousand and four and always just
have had my fond memories of being.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
Like thirteen going on thirty. What what a hoot?

Speaker 3 (07:35):
Right? Yes, so this is again this podcast is perfect
for you because essentially we're trying to rewire our brains here.
You know, this came out in twenty four, twenty one
years ago.

Speaker 4 (07:45):
There was a lot of.

Speaker 3 (07:46):
Norms then that we you know, took as just this
is how it is, and we're here in our you know, twenties, thirties, forties,
fifties and beyond to refresh kind of what exactly it is,
what kind of message is to be received from these films,
And so I'm glad we're going to unpack them.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yeah, And I also love when we look at these
films on our podcast too, and you can almost say like, oh,
this was progressive, right They Like Friends in nineteen ninety
four was progressive. It won glad Award. It was really
great for the gay community for what we could get
right back then exactly. But now, whoops, you know, it

(08:27):
doesn't age so well exactly.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
You're the premise of your show, And dear listener, here's
a quick refresh if you are like Paul and you
haven't seen this film in twenty plus years. So in
thirteen going on thirty, awkward teen, Jenna Rink wishes to
be thirty, flirty and thriving when she is bullied by
the Six Chicks and she doesn't get to kiss her

(08:50):
middle school sweetie and she wakes up in her adult
body with no memory of how she got there, and
with the help from her dear long lost childhood bestie
Matt aka Mark Ruffalo. She tries to undo the mistakes
of her grown up, meaniral life and find her way
back to who she really is, and of course adult
Jenna Rink is beautiful Jennifer Garner. She's just stunning in

(09:12):
this film, so just so cute it hurts me personally.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
Absolutely, she's so It's really interesting what they do because
like the obvious comp for this movie is big, and
in big, what happens is Tom Hanks starts out acting
like a ten or eleven year old whoever old he
isn't that movie, and he matures so like kinded. By
the end, he realizes he's missing childhood. He wants to
go back to childhood because he's acting like an adult.

(09:37):
They don't do that here, which I think is a
fascinating choice.

Speaker 3 (09:41):
Really interesting.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
Get uses to act like an adult now.

Speaker 3 (09:47):
And that's what's so charming, is like she is such
a thirteen year old girl in a Jennifer Garner body,
which kind of lends itself to some problemsal issues, but
I guess, okay, So our next segment is called as
a kid, and you know I was a child when
this film came out twenty one years ago. I was

(10:07):
eleven or twelve, and I guess in terms of one
word that really describes my relationship to this film. As
a kid, it was kind of like ooh, just like
goal goals, hashtag goals. I think, like, you know, I
was Jenner Nk's teenage age almost and like didn't really

(10:27):
like wish to be thirty as a teen, but I
thought that her life looked so glamorous as this, Like yeah,
and she does too, right, She's like, I'm a full
time magazine editor. Like she loves her apartment, she's like beautiful,
she's sweet, she got every you know. She looks in
the earbook and she's like I got everything I ever wanted, right,
And it just feels like, oh wow, this is so great.

Speaker 4 (10:48):
So I just feel like that's that's my one word.
What would your one word be?

Speaker 1 (10:53):
Oh wow, this is I don't mean this to be
a cop out, but thriller. That is That is my
Because I was a bit older than you, I am
and I still am.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
To this day, I'm still older than you.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
Because so I saw this actually having just graduated college
in New York. I went to NYU, so like it was.
It was still aspirational, but it was also like I
knew that that's not what my apartment was going to
look like in six years. Like that was that wasn't
going to happen, and that was okay. I wasn't angry
at it, but like, like the struggling photographer is in

(11:26):
like a four bedroom in the West.

Speaker 5 (11:28):
Village, right, but like charming, I guess charming more than thriller,
like just a full scale charm offensive from Jennifer Garner
and Mark Ruffalo and really the two of them.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
Everyone else kind of gets to be a little villainous,
right for the most part. But that's what I remember
being charmed.

Speaker 4 (11:46):
Yes, except for her.

Speaker 3 (11:47):
Boss, who's not villainous. He's just like funny and.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
Silly, and everyone thinks he's just British, but he's actually gay,
which is a great thing at the end, surprisingly, and he's.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
Gollum, but he's Gollumn exactly. He's gone.

Speaker 3 (12:01):
He also is like the villain in the Black Panther movie,
which is crazy.

Speaker 4 (12:05):
You're like, whoa he has range?

Speaker 2 (12:07):
Does?

Speaker 3 (12:07):
He's Richard in this film he's talking about his balls
getting squished in a vault, like he's the comedic guy.
I think in this film absolutely and in terms you
kind of mentioned thriller. But I am curious, like, is
that we ask everyone what's scene to find this movie
for you? Would you say it's the thriller? Tell me
about the thriller scene if that's what it is, or
if you.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
Haven't it was the thriller scene.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
But what's funny is that I didn't remember anything about
the lead up to it. I didn't remember that it
was at like this corporate event that she was trying
to throw and she was trying to save the event
by doing the thriller dance, because that's what a thirteen
year old would do, right from nineteen eighty seven, we're
doing that situation. Like, I didn't remember any of that.
I just remember Jennifer Garner doing this dance.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
I didn't. I couldn't even have said that.

Speaker 1 (12:51):
Mark Ruffalo was in it. I didn't like Jenner. I
could have told you about the dress. It has like
these stripes on the bottom and this third like lime
green tops. Their boobs are pushed up. She has having
fun with her boobs the whole movie exactly. It's that scene.
And it's one other thing about the movie. And that
is the line, do you want to see my id?

Speaker 2 (13:11):
Totally have it?

Speaker 3 (13:11):
I totally have it. I do love I mean it's classic.
She plays that thirteen year old so well. And yeah,
I also agree. I'm sure that the most iconic scene
in the film is the thriller scene, especially because in
two thousand and four, Michael Jackson was not fully canceled
yet he was not known as a predator, and so

(13:33):
people could still enjoy his music without feeling guilty, and like,
you know, looking at that scene, it feels like, you know,
oh wow, thriller which came out in the eighties in
this with this iconic choreography, really was something so unique
and so different. And it's funny how you know, almost
twenty years later people are still like loving this and

(13:55):
even now I wonder, you know, twenty years after that,
what that would look like like if people would still
be going to events and doing the thriller dance, and
like what that.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
Would be like or what would be the dance in
two thousand and seven, Like like, what is is there
a new thriller?

Speaker 2 (14:10):
I don't know if there is.

Speaker 4 (14:11):
I mean it's TikTok dances for sure.

Speaker 3 (14:12):
I guess, Yeah, but yeah, I think that in terms
of what you were saying before about this movie being charming,
you know, like, what what do you think works about
this film? What do you like about it before we
of course tear to shreds.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
Absolutely well, a couple of things. I like the fact
that it is not solely about the romance. The romantic
plot is it's a solid part of the film, not
saying it's not a big part, but like it is
more about Jenna's internal journey of realizing, hey, maybe I
shouldn't be an asshole when out thirteen.

Speaker 3 (14:49):
Dick, she's such an asshole?

Speaker 1 (14:50):
Yeah, as an adult, don't fossilize into a dick, right,
Like you know, like, look, we were all assholes at
times when we were thirteen, most assuredly, but like, you
have to evolve. And I think it's very funny that
she does not evolve, and neither do the other two
people that we track through the timeline. It's like those

(15:12):
people are frozen in time and they keep the same personalities.
And I have this like theory because of course, it's
like there's magic in this right, it's the Aultar machine
in Big Yeah, yeah exactly, And I'm like, well, is
this just a hallucination? Is this entire thing actually a hallucination?
Because everybody is the exact same person and Lucy is

(15:34):
not like given any depth of character, which is fine
because she's played by Judy Greer and she's so funny
and I love her and I don't care.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
But like a in a for.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
Lack of a better term, deeper movie, sure it would
have been interesting if there was maybe she had two
good friends, Maddie and a girl, and we got to
see also her relationship with a female best friend or
something like that, because the movie is so focused on
these really the relationship Maddie and to a lesser extent,
the relationship with Lucy, and how they're benefiting or not

(16:05):
benefiting Jenna as in her development.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
Right, that's a good point. And yeah, I think that,
you know, he Mark Rufflo does kind of have this
monologue when he's about to get married at the end
to Wendy.

Speaker 4 (16:18):
Justice for Wendy, honestly, like she.

Speaker 5 (16:20):
Was kind of kind of annoying, she did nothing, but
she did nothing wrong, Like we did deserve that, we meant.

Speaker 3 (16:25):
To hate her, but you know, he's kind of like,
you know, I moved on, you moved on you know,
that's her family down there, like I care about her,
and he's that monologue is very refreshing. I really liked
that monologue because I feel like, clearly, you know, they
share a kiss, which.

Speaker 6 (16:40):
Is you know, he kind of cheated on his fiance
but yeah, not great, but he kind of admits to like,
you know, I have been feeling things these last few weeks,
and I've you know, I've always loved you, and like,
you know, I have to be honest, but like this
is the reality is like we are different people now,
and so yeah, I did kind of like that, And.

Speaker 3 (16:58):
Yeah, I think so much works about this film. I
think the fact that it is magic. You know, a
lot can happen in a fantasy world. And so first
of all, the soundtrack fucking slaps you.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
Put pap Benatarna soundtrack, and I will watch the movie
hands down, hands down.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
I will watch ticular.

Speaker 3 (17:17):
I love like, you know, she's like obsessed with Madonna
and she's a teen obviously, and she's like, I know Madonna, Madonna,
like write a note to her. It's just like very sweet.
It's again like that goals feeling of like when you're
a young kid and all the things that you want
to happen to you. It's so glamorous in this like
magazine world and you know, there's New York City. It's like,
it's just so fun that I think, like, yeah, the

(17:38):
whole film is very sweet, and I think, yeah, like
you said, the relationship that she and Maddie have it
is kind of like a solid part of the film,
but it's more about her self discovery to becoming a
better version of herself as an adult.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
Yeah. And it's also it's not she doesn't get Maddie
at the end of the magic part, which she would
not have earned, and that I think would have been
really hard to stomach as an adult watching it for
various reasons.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
But like, I like that exactly.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
The speech you were talking about where he's like, no,
this isn't this isn't real. R, what's happening here?

Speaker 5 (18:17):
Right?

Speaker 1 (18:17):
And which was which I thought was a nice thing
in a rom.

Speaker 3 (18:20):
Com, Right, And like you said, maybe that is maybe
the whole movie kind of in between the party scenes
was an illusion or some kind of thing. But then
I am very confused. We have to talk about it.
It's very confusing mechanics. She goes back to her thirteen
year old self. She kisses Maddie and exits her front door,
and then she's the one that's marrying Maddie. Yeah, what
do you think story wise happened there? Did she like,

(18:42):
did she skip everything?

Speaker 1 (18:45):
Or I think it's a I think it's a movie
vocabulary for she didn't become an asshole. She lived her
life and she actually eventually was a lucky person who
like met their soulmate when they were thirteen, and they
actually belonged together exactly.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
That's what I took with the Razzles. Yes, with the Wrastles.

Speaker 3 (19:02):
I love that the Razzles was also like its own
character in the film. I feel like good for Razzles
for that company.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
Yeah, is that a real thing. I didn't even know.
It's never even heard of.

Speaker 3 (19:12):
You should go to a bodega and grab this week.
That's your homework. Okay, we need to get to the
rating before the rewatch, So I asked you to rate
the film before the rewatch. We can compare our pre
and postwatch ratings, but let's go over the rom com
bomb rating system first. So it's one to.

Speaker 4 (19:30):
Five bombs, one bomb. You know, this is my big fact.
Greek wedding.

Speaker 3 (19:34):
This is like it's dated, but I love to watch
it every year and it's so good and there's like
barely anything wrong with it.

Speaker 4 (19:39):
It's amazing.

Speaker 3 (19:40):
Still would recommend it, still on my list all the
way to five bombs, which is shallow, how right, it's
full body cringe? Did not age well, you know, terrible
mega yikes. Often it's you know, homophobia, xenophobia, fat phobia.
We're talking everything in there that's bad, bad, bad. What
did you rate the film before the rewatch?

Speaker 1 (20:03):
Well, let Danielle, let me tell you when you when
you gave me this assignment, the look on my face
what I was trying to remember if they slept together?

Speaker 3 (20:13):
But just as absolutely thirteen year old self.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
Yes, just because again my reference is big and they
do a big do. Poor Elizabeth Perkins ends that movie
having to drive off into the sunset screaming forever, like
she never gets.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
To stop the car because she slept the year old.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
Yeah, in her defense, she did not know that, but
like there were clues, you know. But so I'm sitting there,
I'm like, I am ninety percent sure that they don't
sleep together, because because I remembered that, I was like
I know, like he has a girlfriend or like he's
leaving or something, and I remember that he I remember
that she didn't get him at the end in the

(20:51):
first in the first excuse me, in the first ending
of the.

Speaker 4 (20:56):
Film, right in the first version.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
Yes, yeah, So I was like, I I don't think
they slept together. So I'm like, all right, we still
have some weirdness with like the thirteen year old thing,
but I'm gonna confidently say a two.

Speaker 3 (21:09):
Ooh, very good. I think a two is very appropriate.
I honestly think I gave it like a one point
five because I was like, I've seen, you know, I've
probably watched this film every few years, like again, it
has like a very like special place in my heart.
I like knew about the age gap, but it wasn't
really sure like how icky it would be. So I

(21:30):
was like, that's probably the main thing that's wrong with
the film. And come to see, we're kind of right
in this, you know. I mean, like, let's transition now
to the main part of the show called That's Problematic,
where we go through a few buckets of things that
you know, to your point about your podcast just didn't
quite age well. Yeah, and the first thing is the

(21:50):
age gap. So Jenna is technically a thirteen year old
in the mind navigating the adult world. And there are
some moments it's right where she's kind of like seducing
Lucy's trying to get her to seduce a man at
the bar, and then she actually goes for like the
thirteen year old boy. So it's like in her head

(22:13):
she's thirteen, but in her body she's Jennifer Garner.

Speaker 4 (22:15):
So that was really weird.

Speaker 3 (22:17):
And then, you know, because she's mentally in middle school,
we're kind of meant to think, like, oh, she's it's
just cute because she is like a little girl who
doesn't know. But obviously Maddie doesn't know the magic that
has occurred, and in his reality, she's just an adult,
and so you know, they're kind of pining after each

(22:38):
other while she is this thirteen year old mentally, and
you know, it kind of I find this to be
problemoutic because it kind of blurs these lines around, like
consent and maturity in a way that like isn't there's
not even a line about it, you know, like they're
not the the writers are not cueuing the audience in

(22:58):
to know that they know that it's kind of weird, right.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
And I think it's so funny to watch the film
and watch them like kind of learn the lessons a
big right, Like because I think they're.

Speaker 3 (23:09):
Really because it is similar.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
Like they're really trying to make it okay without like
you say, they don't really acknowledge it, but like you know,
she has a boyfriend. Older Jenna has a boyfriend, and
at one point they have him do a strip tease
and again he has no idea that that like he
for all he knows, everything is fine. This is the
woman I slept with last night. It's totally normal, right,
So hockey player, boyfriend, innocent and all of this, but

(23:37):
like he's doing the strip teas and they have her
like being very embarrassed as a thirteen year old. Absolutely
would as I would be at forty five if someone
did this for me. Yeah, so fair enough. But like
I think it's funny because like he'll start to kiss
her and she almost acts like she doesn't know where
it's going. And I'm like, I'm growing concerned about the

(23:57):
sex education provided by the high school that Jenna is
attending her the middle school, like she should's it should
be Oh yeah, she should have a baseline idea of
where this is going, and if she doesn't want it
to go there, she could just say no, I'm I
have a headache or something. I understand. Of course, she's thirteen.
She doesn't understand she has these options to her, and

(24:17):
they are trying to make it funny exactly, and to
their credit, they don't fail at making.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
Some of it funny. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:25):
Yeah, yeah, when she hits on that kid, I was like,
I forgot that part.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
That's funny.

Speaker 4 (24:30):
So yeah, she's the same.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
And Jennifer Garner's like acting physically like a thirteen year
old and it's it's funny in this she's so funny
and like she makes friends with the thirteen year old
girl that lives next door to her, and like she
gets a group of thirteen year old girlfriends and like
they're the way she tells about her.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
The sleepover is hilarious.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
Yeah, So it's it's really interesting because they they learned
the lessons big enough that they were able to kind
of smooth over a lot of the rocky parts with humor. Right,
But that doesn't mean the parts aren't rocky, It just
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Speaker 4 (27:30):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (27:31):
So we went over the age gap. Let's go over
the trope that's like quote not like other girls, right Like,
this is kind of a classic romcom trope that's, you know,
typically in films like this that are very white, very skinny,
very straight, like el Woods kind of falls into this
trope of like I'm I'm a smart blonde, I'm not

(27:51):
like the other Harvard girls, right, Like there are so
many women around this time right where she's framed as special,
But in this case, it's because she's a kid, right.

Speaker 4 (28:02):
She likes Razzles.

Speaker 3 (28:03):
Her, you know, Maddie, her childhood best friend. Like, you know,
it's just very much it's very childish. Where like other
women in the film, like Lucy for example, Judy Greer
our Queen, she is portrayed as competitive and manipulative and
shallow and even young Jenna wants to be like, you know,

(28:25):
cool and like the six Chicks. But ultimately, the lesson
that we learn is that, like those girls are mean
and that's fake and that's bad. But I think that
the problem here in lies where it's kind of does
this classic rom com thing where it kind of pits
women against each other and like upholds the idea of
like you know, the manic pixie dream girl kind of thing,

(28:46):
or you know, being quirky or like silly or offbeat
kind of makes you better than other women and more desirable.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
Uh yes, And I think that's another thing that really
could have been helped if she had had a female
friend as well as Maddie, Like so you could have
seen like another relationship. Because it's fine to have a
female villain, that's fine. It's just like if that's the
only it's either your thirteen year old who hasn't crystallized
into an asshole, or you're an asshole, like.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
The only two options.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
And like, look, you know, her assistant seems lovely, right,
and she's you know, she's so sweet and and that's
kind of it as far as female representation. You know,
it's funny. There's I don't know if you notice this.
There's a woman who played I think her name is Polly.
She's like with them a lot, and I was like,
that woman looks really familiar. And she's Susan Egan, who

(29:38):
was the original Bell and Beauty and the Beast on Broadway.
And I finally figured out why I knew her, and
I was like, I wonder if she had a lot
more to do in some version of the script because
she's not she's not nobody that's playing this role, and
she really has like half a line, but she pops
up all the time.

Speaker 3 (29:54):
Yeah, okay, and she's very yeah, very cute.

Speaker 4 (29:56):
I love that haircut.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
Yeah, and I'm like, I wonder if that could have
just been someone, cause she would have been at the
right age to be like. She also traveled with them
right into the future or something, and she, you know,
Polly Young was just friends with Maddy and Jenna and
she and she and Naddie were cool and Jenna Knna
wasn't you know, Like, I mean, Natty at thirteen might
be cooler than I am. Now he has the confidence

(30:17):
to all the talking heads, oh I know, a middle
school party.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
You haven't even talked about. The house that he makes
for her, Oh yeah, Oh my god. He makes her
this beautiful dollhouse at thirteen that's an exact replica of
her home. And it's so sweet and just like the
cutest thing that a boy could ever do for a
girl that he has.

Speaker 4 (30:40):
A crush on.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
Yeah, she's like suck less.

Speaker 3 (30:44):
Yes, I know, I know. I don't need to play
by play.

Speaker 4 (30:47):
She just wants to be cool. She just hates that
she's cool.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
I love when she says I hate you, I hate me,
I hate everything that really encapsulated like the reality I
feel like of what it is to be a teenager
and the hell.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
Yeah, it makes me think too that the other comp
for this movie is mean girls. Yes, exactly, right, like
what you know, perhaps not only girls, but like this
is the topic we're on, like what girls are trained
to feel about each other. You're in competition, You're in
some kind of you know, competition over a man. Usually
I mean they're very young for that, but like that's

(31:22):
what society is putting in exactly.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
And yeah, mean girls. And this film, actually I believe
came out around the same time two thousand and four.
And the final kind of that's problematic bucket that we
have here is like what this film says about the
era in general. And so this was kind of peak
like girl Boss energy, right, like magazines were on top,

(31:46):
Like being thirty and single was kind of seen as
like a crisis. But it's interesting because in this film,
when when Judy Greer's character Lucy picks Jenna up from
her home and she is about to tell her something,
she goes, oh, no, you're pregnant, She's like thank God,

(32:09):
Like you know, I feel like that is a different
kind of reaction than maybe most other films would react
in this way, like it kind of does seem like, oh,
like this kind of like women girl boss energy is
more important than getting the guy, which like to me,
is an advancement.

Speaker 1 (32:30):
I feel absolutely like there's definitely whatever wave of feminine,
whatever wave of feminism it was in that early two thousands,
it's there. It's definitely there. The other thing that I
thought about when immediately when you said that was when
I was in that big party scene where they do
the thriller dance. I was watching all of the extras
in their costumes and all of the women are in

(32:52):
like heels and like the tiny little dresses like that
was it. And the men are in the baggiest, crappiest
looking jeans and these shirts that don't fit, and this
terrible haircut, and I was like, what what were women
accepting right from people?

Speaker 2 (33:08):
Like if.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
You have to get a pair of pants that fit
correct period end of story, like, oh my god.

Speaker 3 (33:15):
And Jenna's outfits and like her sticks in her hair
and like all all the things. I'm just like, what
is going on here? There's a lot happening, and it's.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
Kind of like a lot.

Speaker 3 (33:24):
They get away with it because it's a thirteen year
old dressing herself as a thirty year old. So you're
kind of like, okay, hard to you know, the lines
are kind of blurred there, But it does make me
kind of think of, you know, Devil Wears Prada, like
opening scene, Like, you know, it's all about magazines. It's
all about models. It's all about them fucking weighing cheerios

(33:46):
or oatmeal and seeing how many calories they have and
them kind of cut it. You know, it's all about
diet culture. And I do think that that peek through
a tiny bit in this film, a little bit just
by way of who our stars.

Speaker 4 (33:58):
Were, at least her female leads.

Speaker 3 (34:01):
I do think Mark Ruffalo though, is kind of an
interesting like you said, like he came from a theater background.
He's not really the you know, the rom com lead
typically at this time yet, so I don't know, they
kind of like very slightly subvert these little birds.

Speaker 1 (34:19):
Yeah, yeah, and I like, I it's funny. I just
remember when Jennifer Garner was on Alias the the the
diatribes people would write about her abs which were to
be clear, superhuman like insane, and I'm like, okay, so
Jenna's also running around really strongly in high heels with
a bear midrift.

Speaker 3 (34:37):
Yes, like she has ripped her her body just is spectacular.
And I think I think that was also clear to
me as a mid size, like kind of chubby thirteen
year old girl, like wow, this girl is skinny and
she's pretty, and like that was very like she she
did scream lead to me as a kid when I
first saw this, absolutely, yeah, very very you know clear

(35:01):
that that that's not I think that's what we've come
up with. I think in most of these prom coms
of like, you know, it almost doesn't even even need
to be said, but just like the white, straight, skinny
kind of like nature of all of the leads and
how that hasn't really changed until the last like five years.

Speaker 4 (35:20):
Basically yeah like that.

Speaker 1 (35:22):
I also think it's so fast. I think it's so
fascinating that even in the thriller scene there is one
black person dancing with like and like people, Yeah, the
DJ's black, and I'm like, okay, like what's going on here?
I don't think this is our culture so much, that's correct.

Speaker 3 (35:39):
They Yeah, we had on Brandon Kyle Goodman for our Yes,
for our episode on Legally Blonde and they put this
really well of like, if you're not going home with
the black character, aka you don't know anything about their life,
their relationships, their work, then like that's not meaningful representation.

(36:02):
And I feel like that's just such a common thread
through a lot of these films is we don't go
home with any people of color. We don't go home
with any people like you know, Richard is the boss
who's gay, who's funny and you know, a step up
his gayness. His queerness is not the punchline, which is

(36:23):
you know, there's one moment where Jenna's like, are you gay?
And you know, she's genuinely unsure because she's in a
thirteen year old, you know, brain, and he just kind
of laughs at her as kind of like a yes,
I'm gay, Like of course I'm gay.

Speaker 4 (36:37):
But it's not the punchline.

Speaker 3 (36:39):
So I think like this movie could have done better,
but it didn't. It did not punch down in many
ways that other films don't.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
Yeah, what we always say on our show is it's
sense of omission. Yes, So it's not there's nothing outwardly offensive.
It's just like it's in New York without any black
people or Hispanic people, or Asian people or you know,
very small amount of queer people, and like everyone's kind
of looks the same, you know, right, which is.

Speaker 3 (37:04):
You know that's what Sex and the City did, and like,
you know, there's so many very popular kind of like
rom COMMI type things that really like led the movement for.

Speaker 4 (37:15):
Many of these things.

Speaker 3 (37:16):
And you know, we are doing the rewatch now and
we know better and we can do better in future media.
But I think we're I want to end here on
the on the problematic piece with our cringe.

Speaker 4 (37:28):
Corner, which is just like, okay.

Speaker 3 (37:30):
One moment, one character, one line, one thing that you
found particularly cringey, I'll give you a minute to think
about it. For me, like, even though it is sweet,
I will say the sleep Oversea with the thirteen year
olds just because Jenna, you know, if I'm if I'm
a parent of one of those kids, am I gonna
let my teen kind of go sleep over a thirty

(37:52):
year old's house?

Speaker 2 (37:54):
No?

Speaker 3 (37:54):
I will.

Speaker 4 (37:54):
I will not do that.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
And so maybe if you're an Upper east Side parent,
that's you're not really there.

Speaker 3 (37:59):
That's true.

Speaker 4 (38:00):
At a fundraiser, they are busy.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
They're at a gala, they're at.

Speaker 3 (38:03):
A gala for the rest of their lives.

Speaker 4 (38:05):
They are busy.

Speaker 3 (38:07):
But I think that, you know, in actuality is weird.
In the movie, it's very cute and sweet and it's
a cute, like music video kind of moment. But yeah,
the fact that she mostly relates to thirteen year olds
as an adult is tough.

Speaker 4 (38:24):
It's a tough sell.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
Yeah, I mean, I'll go with the obvious one, but
I have two. Okay, So the obvious one is, of course,
when they make Mark Ruffalo kiss the thirteen year old
exactly which is and to be fair, it's a it's
a relatively brief kiss and he stops it very quickly.

Speaker 3 (38:41):
It's Jennifer Garner's body, so you don't know.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
He doesn't know, and he does not believe that this.
He just thinks she's had like a mental break or something.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
He doesn't delve into it.

Speaker 4 (38:50):
She's like, hey, hole, are you on drugs?

Speaker 2 (38:51):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (38:52):
Like, okay, you're actually cool again, so I'll hang out
with you, but like, I don't know what's actually going on.
The other one that I think about is the strip tease,
only because they have this poor guy and look, I
think he does a good job because he's supposed to
be kind of doofy, doofy. Yes, So kudos to the actor.
Actually don't know his name, but they put him in
these tidy whities, and I'm like the VPL in this scene.

(39:16):
I would have thought I would have remembered that because
I can see your penis sir like and keeps cutting back.

Speaker 4 (39:22):
And his balls. For sure, it's a large bulge.

Speaker 1 (39:26):
There's three separate entities in those tidy whities.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
It's like, please put him in briefs.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
I don't, at least absolutely a pair of boxers.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
No problem.

Speaker 3 (39:37):
We don't need to see the outline. She doesn't need
to see that outline. She's she's a youth. Let's let's
not bless us, not forget Okay, but now, Paul, we
get to do a rewrite. Okay, you know how we
would tell this story today. I kind of want to
jam on the idea that you've been giving of her
having a best female friend, and maybe maybe it's a lesbian.

(40:03):
Maybe we get that, or maybe we get that representation.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
Maybe hang on, I don't want you to fall over
your seat of down right. Maybe she's Asian.

Speaker 3 (40:10):
Maybe she's an Asian girl, could be did they have
Asians in the nineteen eighties living in New Jersey.

Speaker 4 (40:17):
I think they did.

Speaker 1 (40:19):
I think they did was biling available.

Speaker 3 (40:22):
I feel like this is a great idea because, like
you said, it would give that kind of extra perspective
of them being good friends without pitting women against each other.
And also it would kind of serve as the foil
to the Maddie character. Maybe she and Maddie in adulthood
are still friends or something, and maybe there's like a

(40:42):
way that we can feel a little bit more comfortable
with this idea. What do you want to jam on
this idea a little bit more?

Speaker 4 (40:49):
What do you think?

Speaker 1 (40:50):
I think that I have another slight tweak that I
think might unlock something.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
What if Maddie.

Speaker 4 (40:56):
Believes her that she is actually that.

Speaker 1 (40:59):
She is actually she somehow convinces him and and our
hypothetical lesbian named.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
Josephine.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
Yes, she convinces Maddie and Josephine that she is actually
Jennifer and that then she can fall in love with
him and he does not have to fall in love
with her, right, He does not have to have those feelings, right,
And that removes because it's fine for her as a
thirteen year old to have a crush on growing up
Mattie who looks like Mark Ruffalo, Like that's there's no

(41:29):
issue with that, and then she could try to kiss
him and he whoa, nope, nope, not I.

Speaker 4 (41:34):
Can't do it.

Speaker 3 (41:35):
Or let me give you one better, Paul please. This
is what I wrote down. What if Maddie and Jenna
both were fast forwarded into their adult lives.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
Oh, there you go.

Speaker 3 (41:45):
There romance isn't so creepy because they're both thirteen year
olds and thirty year old's bodies.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
Yes, and then you get it's like it's almost like
a split screen kind of situation going on, like, oh,
Maddie's still kind of cool and he gets to figure
out photography and Jenna's still has become an asshole and
she's like, wait, I didn't want to be an.

Speaker 3 (42:01):
Asshole, right, I feel like this this version of it,
and we're adding in Josephine is like the best case
scenario because honestly, usually during this time it's like, oh,
we need to you know, with other films, it's like, oh,
I want to take out all the fucking homophobia casual
homophobia in this Like we just did a recording for
Just Friends and there's so much just casual homophobia in there.

Speaker 4 (42:22):
We're like a fat suit.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
We're like we're taking that out, like it's just very
obvious things. But this is like we're working, we're on
staff right now, we're in a writer's room.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
Yeah, this this is free.

Speaker 3 (42:34):
The writers need to take some notes here. All right, Paul,
We're going to actually do our post watch rating before
I let you go here, and before we do a
trivia teaser.

Speaker 4 (42:43):
Information about the six Chicks.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
You were on the edge of your seat about the
and I still am.

Speaker 3 (42:47):
I can't wait to tell you.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
My breath has been baited for forty minutes.

Speaker 3 (42:52):
Tell me what your post watch after all this, after
everything we've discussed, what is your post watch rating on
the bomb scale one to five bombs? What do you got?

Speaker 4 (43:00):
You started with the two where.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
I started with the two because I was concerned, right,
you were worried. I'm gonna I don't think it's quite
a one, but I don't think it's a two.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
So I'm going to follow your leave. I think that's where.

Speaker 3 (43:13):
I'm staying because after talking about the weird age gap stuff,
and you know how it's just kind of weird that
she is a thirteen year old in this in this body,
and I just could have been fixed with one line,
you know what I mean? Oh yeah, something to cue
us in that, like people know. And so I'm leaving
it at a one point five. But overall it's pretty good.
It's pretty good, very close to a one here, which

(43:35):
I'm happy.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
Yes, And like you know, if it's if it's teaching
young people that they are going to be able to
live in a five bedroom penthouse on the Upper East
Side when they're thirty, I mean, let them dream.

Speaker 4 (43:46):
We need to dream.

Speaker 3 (43:48):
And I actually, when I was preparing for this episode,
trying to think of a good trivia teaser, I learned
that today her apartment would be worth five million dollars.
That's what people estimate, five million. But let's talk about
the trivia teaser.

Speaker 4 (44:03):
You want to know about? Okay, the famous Six Chicks.

Speaker 3 (44:06):
If you look closely, you may see some familiar faces
in the Six Chicks. Someone named Ashley Benson later became
a teen TV staple after starring in Pretty Little Liars.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
She's Pretty Little Liars.

Speaker 4 (44:17):
Absolutely, he's one of the Six Chicks and this and I.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
Believe she also was a Cara Delavine's girlfriend, for a while.

Speaker 4 (44:22):
Oh I love that knowledge.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
I really love random like this is connected to this
and this person knows this person and this is the
kicker here. Bree Larson was in the Six Chicks. She
was she I've noticed it yesterday. She won an Oscar
for Best Actress in twenty sixteen in her performance in Room.
And she is Missus Marvel or whatever the fuck her
name is and Captain Marvel, and she's she's in a

(44:45):
million things, and we love Larson.

Speaker 4 (44:47):
She's incredible.

Speaker 2 (44:47):
She's an Alister Alister and she's a six Chick.

Speaker 4 (44:50):
Pretty incredible.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
Wow, I gotta go look again because I didn't. I
genuinely didn't clock either one.

Speaker 4 (44:55):
I know she's very tall.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
She's one of the tall, blonder ones you'll see.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
Okay, okay, I'm excited for that. Excellent, I'm excited.

Speaker 4 (45:01):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 (45:02):
Okay, are you ready to hear next week's trivia and
you can make some guesses in.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
Your head as to what.

Speaker 3 (45:10):
Next week. This flirty Friends with Benefits rom com started
as romance written for two male leads. Then Hollywood did
what Hollywood does and rewrote the script, changed the title,
and added an Oscar winning woman and a sitcom star.
Guess which movie almost gave us a queer buddy comedy
and ended up with a straight emotional mess instead.

Speaker 2 (45:31):
It's the one with Ashton Cher And.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
All right, people, you're getting an inside scoop here.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
For I love this game.

Speaker 3 (45:43):
It's an amazing game. Next week actually is our last
episode of rom Com Bomb, so so make sure you
tune in and share your guesses. Uh say, no strings
attached with a rom com that you remember from growing
up if you want us to cover it maybe in
a future season of roum com Bomb. By leaving a
review on Apple Podcasts, leaving a comment on Spotify, Paul,

(46:05):
thank you so much for joining us today. Where can
people find you?

Speaker 1 (46:09):
Oh, thank you for having me. You can find me
on that Age Well podcast dropping every Monday wherever you
get your podcasts. Me and Erica we go through. We
do a kolonoscopy on these movies. These are long form episodes.
We don't skip things. We get in there and we
talk about it. So if you need if you've got
a long commute, if you've got a boring job with
data entry, sure we are your ticket to some giggles. Yes,

(46:31):
well that's happening.

Speaker 3 (46:32):
Yes, and We will put that in our show notes
for folks, and yeah, Paul, you rock.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
Thank you so much, Thank you so much. I had
a great time.

Speaker 3 (46:47):
Our creator, host and executive producer is me Danielle bezelel
aka dB. Our producer is Sadie Leeji. Our communications lead
is Catherine Cohen. Our music theme is by hook Sounds.
Thanks so much much to our featured guests, partners, and listeners.
If you have a romcom you remember from growing up
and want us to cover it on romcombomb, submit it
to us by leaving a review on Apple.

Speaker 4 (47:08):
Podcasts and leaving a comment on Spotify.

Speaker 3 (47:11):
Want to partner with us, Email us at sexedidb at
gmail dot com. For more sexad content, follow us on
Instagram at sex ed with dB podcast.

Speaker 4 (47:20):
See you next time.

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