February 5, 2025 • 31 mins
In this episode of the 7Sage LSAT Podcast, Alex sits down with co-host Bailey to dissect her year-and-a-half LSAT journey—from an overconfident first attempt to eventually hitting her goal score. Along the way, they uncover common pitfalls like trying to study without a structured curriculum, taking too many practice tests, and obsessing over timing. Bailey explains how a disciplined approach—slowing down to speed up—helped her master the fundamentals and ultimately achieve a score jump. If you’re looking for an honest, relatable story about the realities of LSAT prep and how to avoid key mistakes, this episode has you covered. Tune in for actionable insights, mindset tips, and a dose of motivation to help you tackle your own LSAT goals.
What You’ll Learn:
- Why trying to “reinvent the wheel” can slow your LSAT progress
- The difference between real “timing issues” and deeper understanding gaps
- How setting weekly micro-goals and focusing on fundamentals can shorten your study timeline
- The benefits (and challenges) of finding an LSAT study community
Links & Resources:
- 7Sage LSAT
- Questions or comments? Email us at podcast@7sage.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Foreign.
Hello and welcome Back to the7Stage LSAT podcast.
We are your hosts.
I am Alex.
I'm Bailey.
Perfect.
Perfect.
Perfect.
Timing was so bad.
(00:20):
The timing was so bad.
I was kind of like, should,should I sort of indicate or should
I?
And I was like, no, no, no.
We're like, at this point,we're no, you know me.
I need non verbal cues.
Yeah, we're connected.
We.
We figured it out.
We figured it out.
Amazing.
Last week's was me and Henry.
Just me and Henry this week.
(00:40):
Okay.
I was gonna make a commentabout, like, how long it's been since
Henry's been on the podcast.
It's been a long time sincethe three of us were.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But.
But here we are together.
Yeah, we gotta, we gotta getthe band back together.
But here we are and we have a.
We have a topic that hitsclose to home today.
Um, you know, we've been sortof interviewing people on and off
(01:02):
about their own LSAT journeys.
Seven SAGE users.
And today we're going to talkto our very own Bailey about kind
of like a cautionary tale.
What not to do.
Exactly.
The lsat.
What not to do is what we'lltitle this episode.
Perhaps it's really hard thing.
It's not.
(01:22):
There's a lot to learn from it.
There's a lot of good points.
But I think Bailey would bethe first to.
To say that, like, obviouslyyou ended up with a great score.
It took you way longer and way more.
It's just then way longer thanit had to.
Right, right.
And way longer than I thoughtit was going to.
Also, like, I came into thistest so cocky.
(01:43):
I was like, oh, cool, let'sstart at the month.
Let's start at the beginning.
Yeah, let's start at the beginning.
Start at the beginning.
Because we're already startingat the beginning.
So.
Yeah.
How you made the decision wereyour thoughts?
My thoughts were I should tryto go to law school.
What's the first step?
How about to go just the lsat?
You're deciding to take the lsat.
(02:04):
What's your plan?
Or lack thereof?
Okay.
Okay.
So I Google, like, what do youdo to go to law school?
So how's the lsat?
Then I Google, what's the lsat?
And then.
Well, actually one of thefirst things I googled was just how
long should you study for the lsat?
And I kept getting aconsistent about three months or
longer online.
And that was the first pieceof advice that I just did not listen
to.
I was like, nope, there's noway I'm gonna do it in one month.
(02:25):
Because I am really good attest taking.
I had decided, which, I mean,I, I, I'm objectively better at standardized
test taking, but not the lsat.
Oh, my God.
It was bad.
It was bad.
And so I, I, I basically tookmy very first test that I had officially
signed up for.
Blind.
I mean, I had seen onepractice test, me be another one,
or maybe just, like, randomquestions from another PT before.
(02:48):
I, I just did not know what Iwas doing.
And then I went.
Took the test.
Did you do a blind diagnosticbefore that, or.
No, the, the.
I did.
Like, I think I did, but Ijust don't.
I don't even remember what Igot as a score.
I think it was on KhanAcademy, maybe.
I don't know.
Yeah.
Huh.
And then.
And then so basically, like,you, you go into the test having
probably taken one test andnot, like, just not.
(03:08):
Knowing what I'm doing.
Yeah.
And thinking also, like, oh,this is gonna be so much easier on
test day.
You know, the adrenaline willbe pumping.
Like, I'll just be able.
Because I, I was thinking,like a lot of people do, that my
biggest issue was timing.
And if I could just, you know,figure out the timing, then I was
getting all the questions right.
And of course, I hadn't donemuch untimed practice to even figure
out where I was at untimed.
I wouldn't have been at that place.
(03:29):
That I was thinking I was at.
Untimed.
Yeah, let's actually.
I feel like this is a good, A good.
A one, one, one.
One lens that we can use iskind of like, as we go sort of correcting,
Correcting the myths thatmaybe you fell prey to.
So when you say that, when yousay, like, my.
You're you.
You were under the impressionthat it was just timing issue.
(03:50):
Like, what do you think nowwhen people say that?
Where, where do you think that.
That.
What do you think?
What, what do you hear whenpeople say that?
Right.
Yeah.
My very first question,whenever somebody's like, okay, I
really just need to get thetiming down, is like, literally just
where are you at untimed?
Practice wise?
Like, where.
What's your level ofconfidence at?
What's your level of accuracy?
Are you where you want to bementally without timing?
(04:12):
And then, you know, let'sstart to taper you down.
I also start to ask, like,just how long have you been studying?
Not that, like, I feel likedifferent people can get to different
progress levels with differentamounts of time studying, but if
you're in your first month or two.
And you really are just soldon the idea that your full problem
with this test is timing.
Chances are it's not.
We got to figure out whereyou're at on time first, and then,
(04:34):
you know that's going to bethe indicator as to whether timing
is your problem or not.
Like, can't argue with the facts.
You do it on time.
If you're still not gettingthose questions right, then let's
start with understanding.
And that was what I reallyneeded to do.
That's part of what mytimeline took so long.
Cause I was doing the opposite.
So.
Yeah.
So I think.
I think when people come, it'svery, very common, right?
It's very common that you hearpeople say, like, my issue is timing.
(04:55):
And, like, I get it.
Like, you're.
You're not wrong in that youdon't have enough time to do this
test, right?
Like, that's totally true.
Like, it is not a reasonableamount of time.
You're not given a reasonableamount of time to do any of these
tasks.
I would say, to the best ofyour ability.
Um, but again, those are therules of the game.
It's just like.
(05:16):
It's sort of like, oh, my onlyissue in soccer is I can't use my
hands.
Well, that's the rules.
Like, that's the exercise.
You know what I mean?
It's like, it.
You got some good sports metaphors.
Yeah, I just like thinkingthat way because.
Because it's like sometimes when.
When with.
With this test where you thinkwe think about things that are sort
of like, well, that's, like,unique to this.
(05:36):
Or that's like, not.
That's, like, cheap or notfair or whatever.
And it's like, it's just the rules.
The rules are the rules, right?
Which is.
Okay, so.
So taking a step back, totallyunderstand when people say, my issue
is timing, right?
But you've got to dig deeper.
You're doing yourself adisservice if you just say, okay,
so the solution is, I got toget faster, right?
Because.
Well, okay, how?
(05:57):
Right?
And the way you get fast,faster is through, like, general
understanding and ability, right?
Is doing, like, deeper work tounderstanding to.
To understand these things,and then they become faster, just
as, you know.
I mean, you just goingstraight to other sports metaphors,
so I'll skip them.
But, you know, if you want todo something quickly, it's not just.
(06:19):
It's.
And you don't yet know how todo it well, right?
The answer is, first learn howto do it well, right?
And then.
And then try and speed it up.
You, you know, anyways, unlessyou're just trying to do a.
A fast, bad job, which Ialways compare it to, like, exactly
when I was learning to typeand there was.
I did.
I think I've told you this.
There was a typing program.
(06:40):
Like, like, it was like.
Well, it wasn't an app.
There weren't apps back then.
They were called programs.
So, like, was it on those,like, really old big computers, like
the, like.
What do you mean?
It was a desktop, for sure.
I didn't have a laptop.
Like one of those desktops, though.
That's not just like a flat screen.
Yeah, no, definitely not.
(07:02):
Definitely not.
No, for sure.
For sure.
So there was the thing whereyou had to, like, it would measure
your speed and your accuracy,and so it'd give you a sentence and
you had to type it right.
And I was like, oh, if I justmash all of the keys, like, it picks
up if you're doing the correct one.
Right.
So if I just sort of justlike, mash the keys, like, my words
(07:22):
per minute is going to beinsanely high.
So I did that, and then Ishowed it to my dad, and he was like,
you have like a 1% accuracy.
It also measures youraccuracy, too.
You don't know how to type.
Yeah, I guess where I'm goingthere is like, you know, speed and
accuracy are.
Are both important.
And we don't want to justfinish this test quickly.
(07:43):
Right.
We want to finish it doing agood job.
All right, let's get back toyour story.
Let's get back to you.
Well, you know that a smalllittle piece in my story that has
nothing to do with the LSAT isI don't know how to type.
So I just wanted to bring thatup anyway.
Fair enough.
That's part of your longer story.
That's my.
Yeah, that's my deep roots.
Okay, so back to the lsat.
Slow down to speed up.
(08:04):
Basically.
Like, I don't even remember atwhat point I learned that, but I
do feel like it was a bigturning point in my process where
I was like, okay, calm down, girl.
Like, number one, you gottadial back a little bit, figure out
what you're actually doingstrategy wise.
Figure out what steps aregonna get you to the right answer.
I think that a big factor inthat was probably me just spending
a lot more time wrong answer journaling.
(08:24):
Cause I just wasn't lettingmyself do that before.
I was trying to move on fromwhatever I saw as fast as possible.
I mean, I would still thinkthrough it.
But I wouldn't actually spendthe time to fully articulate my thoughts
and then also leave myselfwith a takeaway of what am I gonna
do better next time?
As soon as I started doingthat, I realized a lot of my takeaways,
takeaways were just like, yougotta figure out some sort of way
(08:45):
to read these words correctly first.
You know?
And sometimes it was like, goback to the basics.
Figure out what can sufficientis what, what is necessary.
Like understand these relationships.
But a lot of it was just like,you gotta slow down.
And then I was like, oh, okay,maybe I should listen.
So I finally listened.
But so you take the test andyou don't do very well, I'm guessing,
right?
(09:05):
Yeah.
My first test.
Wait, do I share my scores or.
No, I forgot.
What do you think?
Okay.
I, I, I always do in live class.
Yeah.
Yeah, right.
My very first test I took, Igot a 1:56.
I do not remember what myfirst P.
Like PT was, which issomewhere around there.
Which is good.
Which is good.
You know, like for like it's,it's totally a decent score.
And it essentially functionsas a, as a, as a blind diagnostic
(09:30):
test.
Right.
So basically you have a 1:56on your diagnostics.
So you go up from 156 to 175.
It, it took you how long to do that?
One year and a half?
Yeah, a year and a half.
And how many tests did you take?
4.4O LSATs.
And I think one thing we weretalking about before, one thing you
didn't do is you didn't.
(09:53):
Let's talk about first whatyou like you didn't do.
And then we can talk aboutsort of the lessons you learned along
the way.
Like.
Yeah, yeah.
Going back.
Like what, where would youhave started if you, if you, if you
could, if you could go back intime and condense.
That feels like a big question.
Yeah.
Um, okay.
Yeah.
Well, honestly, there was somany moments even during that year
and a half when I like, knewthat I just needed some sort of curriculum.
(10:18):
I was entirely trying to,like, I always talk about it.
Like when I was growing up, Ijust was so stubborn.
I really wanted to figure outhow to solve a Rubik's cube without
ever learning an algorithm ofhow to do it.
And so I would just messaround with my Rubik's cube all the
time.
It took so long of trial anderror to maybe figure out how to
do one side.
And then I couldn't figure itout past that.
(10:38):
So all this to say, I feellike that's pretty similar to how
I approached the lsat.
I was like, oh, cool.
You know what?
I'm going to figure it out my own.
Like, I just.
I only trust myself.
I didn't want to trustsomebody else's concept of what the
things were.
And I just didn't understandthat I did not have enough background
knowledge going into this tobe able to build out my own curriculum.
Like, I didn't even try to dosomething like that.
Yeah.
(10:59):
What were you gonna say?
No, I didn't mean to cut youoff, but I was just like, I totally
agree.
I kind of had the.
A similar mindset at thebeginning, and I think a lot of people
do.
And the thing is, like, youcan do a lot on your own.
It's gonna take you forever.
It's gonna take you so long.
Like it did for Bailey.
So, like.
(11:19):
Right.
You know, it's not to saythat, like, you need.
You need to do it one way oranother in order to get a certain
score.
I mean, I will say for mostpeople to get anywhere close to where
you ended up, you need a curriculum.
Right?
Like, it's.
You know, but it's not to sayit's impossible to get there on your
(11:40):
own.
It just is gonna take you avery long time.
And most people who start thisare not looking to spend a year and
a half studying for it, youknow, so.
Neither was I.
Yeah, but exactly.
Like, a lot of people justdon't even end up doing that.
Like, they just stop before.
And so, yeah, I mean, ifyou're trying to spend less than
that amount of time, I woulddefinitely recommend starting off
with a curriculum.
I.
I do remember looking at sevensages curriculum and just being like,
(12:03):
well, that's going to take meway too long.
And that is so funny andironic looking back now, because
it would have taken me a lotless time than the alternative.
But I just.
Hindsight is 20 20, right?
Like, I have no idea.
Trust me.
Now, like, you guys can nowlisten totally well.
And.
And for.
For the two of us, like, we'vedone this long enough on both sides,
right?
I've, like, taught the LSATfor much longer than I studied for
(12:24):
it.
So, like, you know, we can.
We're not just talking fromour personal experiences right now.
We're also saying, like,because I don't think I did this
test very well either.
Like, you know, I did useseven sage, so, like, it.
It took me a lot less time than.
Than you, but, like, it didn't.
But it Didn't.
I didn't do it.
Like, I didn't do it in theway that I now tell people to do
(12:44):
it, which is really, like.
The lucky thing is, like, it'show it's laid out on the website.
We're not.
Nothing we're saying is it.
It.
Like, the largest message wehave is just like, hey, like.
And just.
Just do what it tells you to do.
Right?
Like, that works.
And.
And even.
Listen, like, I.
I always say, like, obviously,we are partial to seven sage.
(13:04):
I studied with it.
We work here for a reason.
But, like, the most importantthing is that you have a curriculum,
that you have a thing and thatthat works for you, and you, like,
push yourself in the hands ofthat curriculum.
There is no need to reinventthe wheel.
Like, it.
It's just it.
And that's the thing is peoplesee this and they're like, wow, this
is going to take me so long.
(13:25):
Like, take it from Bailey.
Like, yeah, it.
It.
It takes.
It takes months for sure, butit doesn't take a year and a half.
Right.
Right, exactly.
It takes you less time to dothe curriculum.
Just the difference is you cankind of like, when you're.
When you're trying to do it onyour own, like, you don't see.
You feel like the finish lineis, like, right around the corner.
(13:46):
And when you're standing at the.
At the beginning of acurriculum, like, you see a.
A finish line that's way downthe road, so you can see the distance
and.
Yeah, it's a long distance, soyou're like, no, no, no.
The thing is, if you're doingit on your own, you're gonna take
longer.
You just can't see how long.
One of those is an accurateview of reality.
The other one just.
You're.
You're kind of in the cave, so.
Yeah.
(14:06):
Yeah, exactly.
But.
Okay, so you didn't.
You didn't do the curriculum.
What.
What were you doing in termsof practice tests?
Um, I honestly took a ton ofpractice tests on Law Hub.
I would try to.
Oh, I don't even remember what.
What exactly I was doing.
I.
I would try to take.
Like, I did hear somewherethat you shouldn't take too many
(14:27):
pts back to back.
I'm sure I didn't listen tothat advice all the time.
I mean, like, I rememberspecifically one time right before
my second test, I took like, 4pts back to back the week of the
LSAT.
I love sharing that one as awhat not to do, please.
Well, so let's talk about that.
Why not okay, perfect, becauseit really is just not gonna be the
(14:47):
thing that you need mentally.
I'd say that your last weekbefore the LSAT is you're looking
to cement confidence.
You're just looking to gothrough the motions, confirm to yourself
that you know exactly whatsteps to follow whenever the test
gets hard.
And you really don't need tobe proving yourself or, like, be
just trying to, like, put your.
Put all these skills to thetest over and over and over on full
(15:08):
pts, especially.
Especially if you're goinginto those PTS looking for redemption.
And that's what I was looking for.
I'd taken, like, a PT maybe aweek and a half or a week before
my actual test, and I waslike, okay, this supposed to be my
last pt.
Like, let's just see what happens.
I got about 10 points, if Iremember correctly, lower than I
had been averaging or, like,had expected to, wanted to.
(15:28):
Whatever it was, it was justsuper disappointing.
And then I panicked, and Ijust was like, I have to.
I have to get myself back up there.
And then, of course, every dayafter that, I took another pt.
Score went down.
Score did not go up.
I was hoping it would go up.
No, it's just not gonna happen.
Yeah.
So it's just, like, mentallynot helpful.
I think a lot of my process,like, looking back on what would
(15:49):
have been more beneficial forme throughout, it was just, like,
kind of a stepping back and reflecting.
Is what I'm doing right nowhelpful or not helpful?
And maybe you don't know allof that in the moment, but even just,
like, do I have takeaways thatI can articulate after every day
that I'm studying?
Am I able to, you know, talkmyself through the progress that
I've.
Do I know what to do betternext time?
(16:09):
All of those things are waysthat you can just kind of, like,
measure your progress, makesure that you're going in a good
direction.
I wasn't even doing that formost of my studying.
Yeah, totally.
Yeah.
I mean, I think there's, like,two lessons there, right?
Because it's like, youdefinitely shouldn't be doing that
the week of your test.
And you also, like, shouldn'tbe doing that at any point.
Right?
Like, you shouldn't be taking.
Taking all those pts.
(16:30):
You know, we say, like, one PTa week, no more, no less.
And.
And that.
Right.
We also say don't start thatuntil you finish the core curriculum,
because you're just.
You're just wasting those pts.
Like, you.
First of all, like, it's a finite.
You Have a finite number ofpts and two, they're just like not
doing anything for you.
You know, it's.
It's.
You don't know how.
You don't.
You don't know every.
(16:51):
Like, save them until you havethe foundation.
Right.
Not to and to touch on my story.
Maybe, maybe, maybe next episode.
We'll, we'll.
We'll.
The tables will.
I'll interview you.
Yeah, but a little preview.
I mean, I definitely did thatall the time.
I took pts one after the other.
Like, I think there was maybea day where I took two in the same
(17:12):
day, you know, because I wasjust like.
Because one, I kind of enjoyeddoing P.
I enjoyed taking PTs way morethan I enjoyed like other forms of
studying.
Like, I found that to be like.
Because the pts felt like sortof like a game to me in a way.
Like, I like, I'm very competitive.
I like seeing a score.
(17:33):
I like gauging my progress.
And so to me it was like Iwasn't thinking about how to progress.
I was just thinking, I want tosee progress.
I want to see a number that'shigher than the last one.
It almost felt a little like,like, almost like I was sitting in
front of a slot machine.
Not that I enjoy that.
I, I don't enjoy that.
But it sort of was the samepsychology of like, oh, like just
(17:57):
one more time.
Just let me, Let me spray.
Exactly.
Yes.
Yeah.
So our advice.
Yeah, what's.
What's your.
What's your advice?
Like, what is the.
What is the way to do it?
1.1pt a week?
Like, yeah, 1pt a week.
It's just a lot more aboutwhat you're doing in between PTs.
And I do think I figured like,not necessarily that entire idea
(18:17):
out, but I did figure out howto start doing smaller sets of problems
like drills for myself andgiving myself different strategy
twists or kind of creatingdrills that would help me train myself
to get better at timing orbetter accuracy or certain things.
But so anyways, like, myoverall advice now is like, focus
on one PT a week, handful offull time to runtime sections depending
(18:39):
on where you're at and you'restudying peppered throughout the
week.
No more than three or five.
I'd say you're overdo it pastthat and then a couple of targeted
drills each day on top of that.
So those might be focused ontiming, they might be focused on
certain question types, theymight be focused on a certain strategy.
Maybe it's all of the above,but really just making sure that
you have, oh, here's anotherthing that I didn't do until way
(19:00):
later in my process.
Have small reachable goalsevery week.
I just was like, goals, schmoles.
Who cares?
I'm.
My goal is.
Goal is like, get a 180.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Whatever.
It was.
Yeah.
I don't even remember what mygoal was, but it was just like, I
want to crush this test.
And I wasn't literallythinking about how I was going to
get there.
I was just thinking about theend goal.
And I think that happens to alot of people.
(19:20):
But what's going to be helpfulis thinking about the how and articulating
it week after week, holdingyourself to a goal that you can get
to.
I think people don'tunderstand the purpose of that.
And I think some people thinkthat it's like, oh, well, then I'm
like, not shooting for thebest that I could possibly do, right?
Yes.
And it's like, no, if you dobetter, that's bonus.
(19:41):
Like, it's more helpful.
Sorry.
No, no, no, no, no.
You're right.
And.
But it's like, we also havemacro goals and micro goals, so,
like, you know, it's importantto have a goal score.
And it's like, okay, maybethat goal score is a 180 for most
people.
It shouldn't be.
And I don't mean because mostpeople can't score a 180 statistically.
That is.
It is a curve test.
So 180 is, like, right.
(20:03):
Like, that literally would notdeal with more than 50% of the people
could.
Right, right.
But that's not my point.
My point isn't that any oneperson can't score a 180.
It's that, like, well, okay,but you'll accept lower than a 180,
right?
Like, what's the score?
And it's not to say, like, so it's.
It's just like, a little bitmore complicated than that.
Right?
It's like, where's the, like,range these scores?
(20:24):
Like, I would be happy.
Like, where's the thing thatyou'd be like, that you'd be.
That you'd be happy with.
Right.
You'd accept.
You wouldn't want to retake it.
And if It's.
If it's 180, I would thinklong and hard about whether that's
true.
Right.
That's, like, so extreme.
Yeah, I think kind of likewhat I held my.
Like, I don't know.
I just had this idea in theback of my mind where if I wasn't
shooting for a 180, that I'mdoing myself disservice.
(20:44):
Like I'm not, I'm not livingup to my full potential and it's
like, whoa, whoa.
Is that mindset helpful?
Like again, going back to thewell, is this getting me towards
the place that I want to be?
Not at all.
It's getting me further awayfrom it because you're just that
much added pressure at leaston myself, was really making myself
change my strategies up andtime practice, which then made my
(21:04):
scores go lower and it wasjust like too much pressure not working.
Yeah, so, so that's like themacro goal.
But then also what we'retalking about too is like breaking
that goal down into bite sized pieces.
Right.
You cannot go into every week,into every drill, into every practice
test just thinking, I want mygoal score because, you know, not
to bring it back to sports.
(21:26):
Right.
But if you're like trying torun like a five minute whatever.
I don't, where, I don't knowwhere I'm going with this.
That's a really fast.
A five minute mile.
Yeah, yeah.
So if you're trying, if you'retrying to run a five minute mile,
right, that isn't your goalfrom day one.
You're not like, well, thismile, I'm going to do it.
Right.
You recognize that that's abig, that's a very lofty goal and
(21:48):
you're gonna like break itdown and like really try it, you
know?
And, and honestly, my goal is just.
To run a mile.
Well, right, Exactly.
What that's, that's my literalgoal is just to run a mile.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But the point is like this,this test is like just as, I mean
if you think about how longpeople train for this test, like
it's not that dissimilar fromlike marathons, you know, it's actually
(22:08):
like, and, and, and, and youshould treat it that way.
Right?
So your goal for every day isnot just to get your goal time on
the race, right.
It's breaking it down.
How do I get there?
And I think we understand thatwhen we think about physical goals.
Because it's like, well, I'mout of shape, like I can't do that
right away.
And we just don't quiterecognize that this is not, this
(22:31):
is the same.
I mean my, someone asked methe other day, like, how would I
do on the test right now?
And I was like, not well.
I would not do well.
And it's not because I can't.
Like, I definitely, I knowthat I can.
I've, I've Done it.
I've done well.
But, like, I'm not studyingfor the test, and I'm also not teaching
the test right now because,like, I'm not teaching it in the
way that I used to.
(22:52):
Right.
I'm teaching it, like.
Like this and more like, holistically.
But I'm not, like, doing asmany problems as.
As I once did.
And so, like, I'm out of practice.
Like, I would not be able todo very well if I just sat down and
take the test, you know, today.
Cause I'm out of practice.
I'm out of shape.
It's like, you know, I also,like, haven't been running very much,
(23:12):
so if I ran, I wouldn't expectmyself to run very fast, you know?
So what I'm hearing is that Iwould crush you in a practice LSAT
right now.
But we'd probably.
You.
You'd honestly still probablybeat me in the mile.
Not gonna lie.
Yeah, I'm not super worriedabout that.
But, you know.
Perfect.
Perfect, perfect.
(23:34):
But what?
What.
Okay, so where.
Where did we leave off?
That's a question for another person.
That's not me.
You were like, okay, so wetalked about pts.
We talked about how to dothat, right?
What, what?
I mean, so let's talk about,like, okay, so granted, like, you
(23:55):
did not have the process thatyou would recommend to other people.
Like, what did.
What.
What worked for you?
What did you figure out thatthat did help you along the way?
Right.
So as long as I.
Or as soon as I startedgetting more serious about my studying
and a little bit moreorganized, that was when I don't
know if I was, like,thoroughly making small, reachable
goals each week, but I was atleast finding an area of focus each
(24:17):
week.
And then I remember that Iwould drill a lot of either, like,
a single question type orsomething that I started liking to
do a lot on my own was justlook at parallels, look at bridges
between question types andsee, like, what different question
types can.
I all can all be approachedwith the same first few steps.
That's when I started gettingreally into, I mean, just approaching
question types.
The way that I teach myspotting the gap class now, where
(24:38):
it's like flaw strength and weaken.
Sufficient assumption,necessary assumption, pseudosufficient
assumption, all of those.
You want to just start byspotting that gap or hole, which
I think that a lot of that wasjust, like, overall strategy was
getting a little bit tighter.
I was realizing which thingsgot me to the right answers.
And then I would bring it allback together for a PT probably,
(24:59):
I don't know if it was weekly,but probably a little bit more structured
at that point.
And you're still finding thatstructure over again, right?
18 months or so.
Yes, exactly.
Cool.
Well, 18 months.
Thank you.
I just did a little mental math.
(25:21):
Uh, what else?
Yeah, so, like, I guess, Ithink, I think a lot of people feel
the way that you did at thebeginning, right?
Like, I'm gonna do it my way.
I'm not gonna do.
And, and it's like, listen,like, there's no one size fits all
approach.
Like, it's not, you know, whenwe say, like, follow a path or a
curriculum, like there'svariation within that.
(25:43):
Like there's ways to adapt itto your needs and your own style.
So I think, you know, listen,I understand the temptation to do
this on your own in your ownway, and you should just, just know
where, like, know where that.
Know where that's reasonableand where it isn't.
Right?
And listen, like, we're like,I say all the time, sometimes people
in, like, classes or, youknow, in person courses, they're
(26:05):
like, what happens if I don'tdo, like, if I don't do the home.
I mean, in, in courses orwhatever, I'm like, what happens
if you don't do the homework?
Nothing.
Like, it's.
I don't care.
I'm not going to do anything.
No, like, you're going torealize you're in a.
You're an adult and like,you're, you're here for a reason.
Like, you're here because youwant to be a lawyer.
You're here, you know, you'rehere because you want to get a certain
(26:27):
score on this test, whichultimately is because you want to
be a lawyer.
So, like, and that's, that's,that's for you.
Like, this is not, this is notelementary school.
Like, I'm not going to, like,you're not going to get in trouble.
It's just like, it's just thisis the way that you can make this
easier on yourself or harderon yourself or succeed or possibly
fail.
Like, you know, when it comesto, Should I reinvent the wheel?
Should I do this, like,completely of my own design?
(26:50):
Like, yeah, there's, there'sways to make that work.
In general, it's going to takeyou a whole lot longer or it's just,
it's, it's not even, it's notgoing to work you.
Right.
That's what so badly wanted toreinvent the wheel.
And honestly, I kind of cameup with a Pseudo wheel by the end
of it.
That was.
Yeah, well, it's like, I think.
I mean, I think just took so long.
Like we keep saying.
Yeah.
Like, for.
(27:11):
For me personally, like, itwas like.
Yeah.
Like, eventually I sort of.
Of.
My own discovery was like, Ishould be doing these pts once a
week.
I mean, I wish I just.
Someone had told me.
That makes sense.
Yeah.
I wish I just listened whenpeople told me that at the beginning.
It would be a lot easier, youknow, I also think my life, though.
How many things have I learnedthe hard way?
(27:31):
How many things have youlearned the hard way?
I know we're both like, I'velearned a lot of things the hard
way.
I think many.
Maybe I'm a little bit betternow just through trial and error.
No, you don't think so.
Your face is telling me no.
Comparative for you versus me.
No, no, no.
You've grown.
You've grown.
You've grown.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, no, no, I would never.
I mean, but.
No, I would never.
(27:55):
No, no, no.
But, like, yeah, the.
The other thing is, like.
I mean, it's something that wetalk about literally all the time,
but, like, finding people whoare doing this at the same time as
you.
Yes.
Wait, we can talk about that.
I mean, I probably talkedabout that similarly, like, on the
first podcast that we didabout finding Community, but I was
really stubborn about just notwanting to reach out to, Like, I
(28:16):
had friends that were studyingfor the LSAT even.
I just didn't even want toreach out for them, to them, for
help, because part of it waslike the, you know, complex where
I was like, what if they'redoing better than me?
I don't know.
I don't want to, like, dealwith that.
I knew some of them were doingbetter than me, so I was like, I
don't want to deal with that.
Yeah.
And then I feel like the otherpart was just like.
Well, I mean, a lot of itprobably had to do with that because
(28:37):
I was also scared to, youknow, show myself struggling in front
of them.
And then it's like, no,everybody's struggling.
I think as soon as I startedto reach out, I was like, oh, you
know, regardless of where ourscores are at, like, we can each
teach from or learn from andteach each other.
And then also there's just somany overlap.
So many overlaps between whatyou feel like maybe you.
You're the only personexperiencing something, and it's
(28:59):
just like, this test is theend of the world.
It's not just you.
The other thing Is like, youcan find new friends for the Elsa.
Like, I.
You know, like, it's just.
Exactly.
Even if you don't know people.
Yeah.
It's.
I can understand not wantingto do this with people who you have,
like, long outside friendshipswith, because, like, yeah, it is.
It is complicated.
Like, you don't really want tonecessarily, like, have that, like,
(29:20):
direct comparison in front ofyou or whatever, but, like.
Like, through live class, through.
Through, like, any other, youknow, through discord servers, through
whatever.
Like, finding other people whomaybe you only knew through this
test.
And, like, we've seen it somany times, those, like, blossom
into, like, actualfriendships, which is amazing.
But, like, right.
If.
Even if it doesn't get to thatpoint, it still is, like, really
helpful to have, like, an LSATbuddy, you know, for accountability.
(29:45):
Yeah, exactly.
So.
Yeah.
All right.
You made it.
Ultimately, you made it.
It was a long, twisting.
I'm so glad I didn't give up.
I mean, I think I literallydid give up a few times, but I kept
going.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
So listen, it's like.
I think there's a lot of.
I think.
I'm glad we structured it theway we did, because it's, like, we
(30:08):
got to see how you got here,and then also, like, pausing along
the way to be like, yeah, andhow could you have done this a little
bit?
How could you have sped thisup a little bit?
How could you have made iteasier on yourself?
Because here's the thing.
You cannot make this process easy.
It is hard.
This test is hard.
It's gonna take a long time.
Like, I wish I could just makeit easy for everyone, but it's not.
(30:30):
It's not.
Right.
It.
It's.
It.
It is a hard test.
Right?
Like, you can make it way easier.
You can make it, like, not sodisruptive or upsetting or.
Or.
Or long or any.
Anything, right?
You can.
You can take the steps to makethis as easy as possible as for.
For yourself, and you can have.
You can have somewhat of agratifying experience.
This test teaches you a lot ofthings that are applicable outside
(30:52):
of this test.
Absolutely.
I 100% believe that maybe wecan do an episode about that.
How the lessons apply.
My first lesson is still slow.
Is smooth, smooth, fast.
There you go.
It's a little teaser.
We'll get.
We'll get right into it.
Yay.
All right, that's all the timewe have for today.
Thank you, Bailey, for sharingyour story.
(31:13):
Thank you, Alex, forsoliciting my story 100%.
Anytime.
All right, Talk to you thelistener soon.
We'll talk to you soon.
We'll see you soon.
Watch us on YouTube.
Subscribe.
Like and subscribe.
Comment.
If you have questions.
Comment.
Comment.
Oh, they could comment.
That's easier than emailing.
But you can also email.
(31:33):
You can also email.
No one emails us.
I don't understand.
Podcast@7stage.com but comment.
Comment on YouTube.
Comment on YouTube.
We'll respond there.
All right, that's all we've got.
Thank you.
Bye.
Foreign.
Hello and welcome Back to the7Stage LSAT podcast.
We are your hosts.
I am Alex.
I'm Bailey.
Perfect.
Perfect.
Perfect.
Timing was so bad.
(00:20):
The timing was so bad.
I was kind of like, should,should I sort of indicate or should
I?
And I was like, no, no, no.
We're like, at this point,we're no, you know me.
I need non verbal cues.
Yeah, we're connected.
We.
We figured it out.
We figured it out.
Amazing.
Last week's was me and Henry.
Just me and Henry this week.
(00:40):
Okay.
I was gonna make a commentabout, like, how long it's been since
Henry's been on the podcast.
It's been a long time sincethe three of us were.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But.
But here we are together.
Yeah, we gotta, we gotta getthe band back together.
But here we are and we have a.
We have a topic that hitsclose to home today.
Um, you know, we've been sortof interviewing people on and off
(01:02):
about their own LSAT journeys.
Seven SAGE users.
And today we're going to talkto our very own Bailey about kind
of like a cautionary tale.
What not to do.
Exactly.
The lsat.
What not to do is what we'lltitle this episode.
Perhaps it's really hard thing.
It's not.
(01:22):
There's a lot to learn from it.
There's a lot of good points.
But I think Bailey would bethe first to.
To say that, like, obviouslyyou ended up with a great score.
It took you way longer and way more.
It's just then way longer thanit had to.
Right, right.
And way longer than I thoughtit was going to.
Also, like, I came into thistest so cocky.
(01:43):
I was like, oh, cool, let'sstart at the month.
Let's start at the beginning.
Yeah, let's start at the beginning.
Start at the beginning.
Because we're already startingat the beginning.
So.
Yeah.
How you made the decision wereyour thoughts?
My thoughts were I should tryto go to law school.
What's the first step?
How about to go just the lsat?
You're deciding to take the lsat.
(02:04):
What's your plan?
Or lack thereof?
Okay.
Okay.
So I Google, like, what do youdo to go to law school?
So how's the lsat?
Then I Google, what's the lsat?
And then.
Well, actually one of thefirst things I googled was just how
long should you study for the lsat?
And I kept getting aconsistent about three months or
longer online.
And that was the first pieceof advice that I just did not listen
to.
I was like, nope, there's noway I'm gonna do it in one month.
(02:25):
Because I am really good attest taking.
I had decided, which, I mean,I, I, I'm objectively better at standardized
test taking, but not the lsat.
Oh, my God.
It was bad.
It was bad.
And so I, I, I basically tookmy very first test that I had officially
signed up for.
Blind.
I mean, I had seen onepractice test, me be another one,
or maybe just, like, randomquestions from another PT before.
(02:48):
I, I just did not know what Iwas doing.
And then I went.
Took the test.
Did you do a blind diagnosticbefore that, or.
No, the, the.
I did.
Like, I think I did, but Ijust don't.
I don't even remember what Igot as a score.
I think it was on KhanAcademy, maybe.
I don't know.
Yeah.
Huh.
And then.
And then so basically, like,you, you go into the test having
probably taken one test andnot, like, just not.
(03:08):
Knowing what I'm doing.
Yeah.
And thinking also, like, oh,this is gonna be so much easier on
test day.
You know, the adrenaline willbe pumping.
Like, I'll just be able.
Because I, I was thinking,like a lot of people do, that my
biggest issue was timing.
And if I could just, you know,figure out the timing, then I was
getting all the questions right.
And of course, I hadn't donemuch untimed practice to even figure
out where I was at untimed.
I wouldn't have been at that place.
(03:29):
That I was thinking I was at.
Untimed.
Yeah, let's actually.
I feel like this is a good, A good.
A one, one, one.
One lens that we can use iskind of like, as we go sort of correcting,
Correcting the myths thatmaybe you fell prey to.
So when you say that, when yousay, like, my.
You're you.
You were under the impressionthat it was just timing issue.
(03:50):
Like, what do you think nowwhen people say that?
Where, where do you think that.
That.
What do you think?
What, what do you hear whenpeople say that?
Right.
Yeah.
My very first question,whenever somebody's like, okay, I
really just need to get thetiming down, is like, literally just
where are you at untimed?
Practice wise?
Like, where.
What's your level ofconfidence at?
What's your level of accuracy?
Are you where you want to bementally without timing?
(04:12):
And then, you know, let'sstart to taper you down.
I also start to ask, like,just how long have you been studying?
Not that, like, I feel likedifferent people can get to different
progress levels with differentamounts of time studying, but if
you're in your first month or two.
And you really are just soldon the idea that your full problem
with this test is timing.
Chances are it's not.
We got to figure out whereyou're at on time first, and then,
(04:34):
you know that's going to bethe indicator as to whether timing
is your problem or not.
Like, can't argue with the facts.
You do it on time.
If you're still not gettingthose questions right, then let's
start with understanding.
And that was what I reallyneeded to do.
That's part of what mytimeline took so long.
Cause I was doing the opposite.
So.
Yeah.
So I think.
I think when people come, it'svery, very common, right?
It's very common that you hearpeople say, like, my issue is timing.
(04:55):
And, like, I get it.
Like, you're.
You're not wrong in that youdon't have enough time to do this
test, right?
Like, that's totally true.
Like, it is not a reasonableamount of time.
You're not given a reasonableamount of time to do any of these
tasks.
I would say, to the best ofyour ability.
Um, but again, those are therules of the game.
It's just like.
(05:16):
It's sort of like, oh, my onlyissue in soccer is I can't use my
hands.
Well, that's the rules.
Like, that's the exercise.
You know what I mean?
It's like, it.
You got some good sports metaphors.
Yeah, I just like thinkingthat way because.
Because it's like sometimes when.
When with.
With this test where you thinkwe think about things that are sort
of like, well, that's, like,unique to this.
(05:36):
Or that's like, not.
That's, like, cheap or notfair or whatever.
And it's like, it's just the rules.
The rules are the rules, right?
Which is.
Okay, so.
So taking a step back, totallyunderstand when people say, my issue
is timing, right?
But you've got to dig deeper.
You're doing yourself adisservice if you just say, okay,
so the solution is, I got toget faster, right?
Because.
Well, okay, how?
(05:57):
Right?
And the way you get fast,faster is through, like, general
understanding and ability, right?
Is doing, like, deeper work tounderstanding to.
To understand these things,and then they become faster, just
as, you know.
I mean, you just goingstraight to other sports metaphors,
so I'll skip them.
But, you know, if you want todo something quickly, it's not just.
(06:19):
It's.
And you don't yet know how todo it well, right?
The answer is, first learn howto do it well, right?
And then.
And then try and speed it up.
You, you know, anyways, unlessyou're just trying to do a.
A fast, bad job, which Ialways compare it to, like, exactly
when I was learning to typeand there was.
I did.
I think I've told you this.
There was a typing program.
(06:40):
Like, like, it was like.
Well, it wasn't an app.
There weren't apps back then.
They were called programs.
So, like, was it on those,like, really old big computers, like
the, like.
What do you mean?
It was a desktop, for sure.
I didn't have a laptop.
Like one of those desktops, though.
That's not just like a flat screen.
Yeah, no, definitely not.
(07:02):
Definitely not.
No, for sure.
For sure.
So there was the thing whereyou had to, like, it would measure
your speed and your accuracy,and so it'd give you a sentence and
you had to type it right.
And I was like, oh, if I justmash all of the keys, like, it picks
up if you're doing the correct one.
Right.
So if I just sort of justlike, mash the keys, like, my words
(07:22):
per minute is going to beinsanely high.
So I did that, and then Ishowed it to my dad, and he was like,
you have like a 1% accuracy.
It also measures youraccuracy, too.
You don't know how to type.
Yeah, I guess where I'm goingthere is like, you know, speed and
accuracy are.
Are both important.
And we don't want to justfinish this test quickly.
(07:43):
Right.
We want to finish it doing agood job.
All right, let's get back toyour story.
Let's get back to you.
Well, you know that a smalllittle piece in my story that has
nothing to do with the LSAT isI don't know how to type.
So I just wanted to bring thatup anyway.
Fair enough.
That's part of your longer story.
That's my.
Yeah, that's my deep roots.
Okay, so back to the lsat.
Slow down to speed up.
(08:04):
Basically.
Like, I don't even remember atwhat point I learned that, but I
do feel like it was a bigturning point in my process where
I was like, okay, calm down, girl.
Like, number one, you gottadial back a little bit, figure out
what you're actually doingstrategy wise.
Figure out what steps aregonna get you to the right answer.
I think that a big factor inthat was probably me just spending
a lot more time wrong answer journaling.
(08:24):
Cause I just wasn't lettingmyself do that before.
I was trying to move on fromwhatever I saw as fast as possible.
I mean, I would still thinkthrough it.
But I wouldn't actually spendthe time to fully articulate my thoughts
and then also leave myselfwith a takeaway of what am I gonna
do better next time?
As soon as I started doingthat, I realized a lot of my takeaways,
takeaways were just like, yougotta figure out some sort of way
(08:45):
to read these words correctly first.
You know?
And sometimes it was like, goback to the basics.
Figure out what can sufficientis what, what is necessary.
Like understand these relationships.
But a lot of it was just like,you gotta slow down.
And then I was like, oh, okay,maybe I should listen.
So I finally listened.
But so you take the test andyou don't do very well, I'm guessing,
right?
(09:05):
Yeah.
My first test.
Wait, do I share my scores or.
No, I forgot.
What do you think?
Okay.
I, I, I always do in live class.
Yeah.
Yeah, right.
My very first test I took, Igot a 1:56.
I do not remember what myfirst P.
Like PT was, which issomewhere around there.
Which is good.
Which is good.
You know, like for like it's,it's totally a decent score.
And it essentially functionsas a, as a, as a blind diagnostic
(09:30):
test.
Right.
So basically you have a 1:56on your diagnostics.
So you go up from 156 to 175.
It, it took you how long to do that?
One year and a half?
Yeah, a year and a half.
And how many tests did you take?
4.4O LSATs.
And I think one thing we weretalking about before, one thing you
didn't do is you didn't.
(09:53):
Let's talk about first whatyou like you didn't do.
And then we can talk aboutsort of the lessons you learned along
the way.
Like.
Yeah, yeah.
Going back.
Like what, where would youhave started if you, if you, if you
could, if you could go back intime and condense.
That feels like a big question.
Yeah.
Um, okay.
Yeah.
Well, honestly, there was somany moments even during that year
and a half when I like, knewthat I just needed some sort of curriculum.
(10:18):
I was entirely trying to,like, I always talk about it.
Like when I was growing up, Ijust was so stubborn.
I really wanted to figure outhow to solve a Rubik's cube without
ever learning an algorithm ofhow to do it.
And so I would just messaround with my Rubik's cube all the
time.
It took so long of trial anderror to maybe figure out how to
do one side.
And then I couldn't figure itout past that.
(10:38):
So all this to say, I feellike that's pretty similar to how
I approached the lsat.
I was like, oh, cool.
You know what?
I'm going to figure it out my own.
Like, I just.
I only trust myself.
I didn't want to trustsomebody else's concept of what the
things were.
And I just didn't understandthat I did not have enough background
knowledge going into this tobe able to build out my own curriculum.
Like, I didn't even try to dosomething like that.
Yeah.
(10:59):
What were you gonna say?
No, I didn't mean to cut youoff, but I was just like, I totally
agree.
I kind of had the.
A similar mindset at thebeginning, and I think a lot of people
do.
And the thing is, like, youcan do a lot on your own.
It's gonna take you forever.
It's gonna take you so long.
Like it did for Bailey.
So, like.
(11:19):
Right.
You know, it's not to saythat, like, you need.
You need to do it one way oranother in order to get a certain
score.
I mean, I will say for mostpeople to get anywhere close to where
you ended up, you need a curriculum.
Right?
Like, it's.
You know, but it's not to sayit's impossible to get there on your
(11:40):
own.
It just is gonna take you avery long time.
And most people who start thisare not looking to spend a year and
a half studying for it, youknow, so.
Neither was I.
Yeah, but exactly.
Like, a lot of people justdon't even end up doing that.
Like, they just stop before.
And so, yeah, I mean, ifyou're trying to spend less than
that amount of time, I woulddefinitely recommend starting off
with a curriculum.
I.
I do remember looking at sevensages curriculum and just being like,
(12:03):
well, that's going to take meway too long.
And that is so funny andironic looking back now, because
it would have taken me a lotless time than the alternative.
But I just.
Hindsight is 20 20, right?
Like, I have no idea.
Trust me.
Now, like, you guys can nowlisten totally well.
And.
And for.
For the two of us, like, we'vedone this long enough on both sides,
right?
I've, like, taught the LSATfor much longer than I studied for
(12:24):
it.
So, like, you know, we can.
We're not just talking fromour personal experiences right now.
We're also saying, like,because I don't think I did this
test very well either.
Like, you know, I did useseven sage, so, like, it.
It took me a lot less time than.
Than you, but, like, it didn't.
But it Didn't.
I didn't do it.
Like, I didn't do it in theway that I now tell people to do
(12:44):
it, which is really, like.
The lucky thing is, like, it'show it's laid out on the website.
We're not.
Nothing we're saying is it.
It.
Like, the largest message wehave is just like, hey, like.
And just.
Just do what it tells you to do.
Right?
Like, that works.
And.
And even.
Listen, like, I.
I always say, like, obviously,we are partial to seven sage.
(13:04):
I studied with it.
We work here for a reason.
But, like, the most importantthing is that you have a curriculum,
that you have a thing and thatthat works for you, and you, like,
push yourself in the hands ofthat curriculum.
There is no need to reinventthe wheel.
Like, it.
It's just it.
And that's the thing is peoplesee this and they're like, wow, this
is going to take me so long.
(13:25):
Like, take it from Bailey.
Like, yeah, it.
It.
It takes.
It takes months for sure, butit doesn't take a year and a half.
Right.
Right, exactly.
It takes you less time to dothe curriculum.
Just the difference is you cankind of like, when you're.
When you're trying to do it onyour own, like, you don't see.
You feel like the finish lineis, like, right around the corner.
(13:46):
And when you're standing at the.
At the beginning of acurriculum, like, you see a.
A finish line that's way downthe road, so you can see the distance
and.
Yeah, it's a long distance, soyou're like, no, no, no.
The thing is, if you're doingit on your own, you're gonna take
longer.
You just can't see how long.
One of those is an accurateview of reality.
The other one just.
You're.
You're kind of in the cave, so.
Yeah.
(14:06):
Yeah, exactly.
But.
Okay, so you didn't.
You didn't do the curriculum.
What.
What were you doing in termsof practice tests?
Um, I honestly took a ton ofpractice tests on Law Hub.
I would try to.
Oh, I don't even remember what.
What exactly I was doing.
I.
I would try to take.
Like, I did hear somewherethat you shouldn't take too many
(14:27):
pts back to back.
I'm sure I didn't listen tothat advice all the time.
I mean, like, I rememberspecifically one time right before
my second test, I took like, 4pts back to back the week of the
LSAT.
I love sharing that one as awhat not to do, please.
Well, so let's talk about that.
Why not okay, perfect, becauseit really is just not gonna be the
(14:47):
thing that you need mentally.
I'd say that your last weekbefore the LSAT is you're looking
to cement confidence.
You're just looking to gothrough the motions, confirm to yourself
that you know exactly whatsteps to follow whenever the test
gets hard.
And you really don't need tobe proving yourself or, like, be
just trying to, like, put your.
Put all these skills to thetest over and over and over on full
(15:08):
pts, especially.
Especially if you're goinginto those PTS looking for redemption.
And that's what I was looking for.
I'd taken, like, a PT maybe aweek and a half or a week before
my actual test, and I waslike, okay, this supposed to be my
last pt.
Like, let's just see what happens.
I got about 10 points, if Iremember correctly, lower than I
had been averaging or, like,had expected to, wanted to.
(15:28):
Whatever it was, it was justsuper disappointing.
And then I panicked, and Ijust was like, I have to.
I have to get myself back up there.
And then, of course, every dayafter that, I took another pt.
Score went down.
Score did not go up.
I was hoping it would go up.
No, it's just not gonna happen.
Yeah.
So it's just, like, mentallynot helpful.
I think a lot of my process,like, looking back on what would
(15:49):
have been more beneficial forme throughout, it was just, like,
kind of a stepping back and reflecting.
Is what I'm doing right nowhelpful or not helpful?
And maybe you don't know allof that in the moment, but even just,
like, do I have takeaways thatI can articulate after every day
that I'm studying?
Am I able to, you know, talkmyself through the progress that
I've.
Do I know what to do betternext time?
(16:09):
All of those things are waysthat you can just kind of, like,
measure your progress, makesure that you're going in a good
direction.
I wasn't even doing that formost of my studying.
Yeah, totally.
Yeah.
I mean, I think there's, like,two lessons there, right?
Because it's like, youdefinitely shouldn't be doing that
the week of your test.
And you also, like, shouldn'tbe doing that at any point.
Right?
Like, you shouldn't be taking.
Taking all those pts.
(16:30):
You know, we say, like, one PTa week, no more, no less.
And.
And that.
Right.
We also say don't start thatuntil you finish the core curriculum,
because you're just.
You're just wasting those pts.
Like, you.
First of all, like, it's a finite.
You Have a finite number ofpts and two, they're just like not
doing anything for you.
You know, it's.
It's.
You don't know how.
You don't.
You don't know every.
(16:51):
Like, save them until you havethe foundation.
Right.
Not to and to touch on my story.
Maybe, maybe, maybe next episode.
We'll, we'll.
We'll.
The tables will.
I'll interview you.
Yeah, but a little preview.
I mean, I definitely did thatall the time.
I took pts one after the other.
Like, I think there was maybea day where I took two in the same
(17:12):
day, you know, because I wasjust like.
Because one, I kind of enjoyeddoing P.
I enjoyed taking PTs way morethan I enjoyed like other forms of
studying.
Like, I found that to be like.
Because the pts felt like sortof like a game to me in a way.
Like, I like, I'm very competitive.
I like seeing a score.
(17:33):
I like gauging my progress.
And so to me it was like Iwasn't thinking about how to progress.
I was just thinking, I want tosee progress.
I want to see a number that'shigher than the last one.
It almost felt a little like,like, almost like I was sitting in
front of a slot machine.
Not that I enjoy that.
I, I don't enjoy that.
But it sort of was the samepsychology of like, oh, like just
(17:57):
one more time.
Just let me, Let me spray.
Exactly.
Yes.
Yeah.
So our advice.
Yeah, what's.
What's your.
What's your advice?
Like, what is the.
What is the way to do it?
1.1pt a week?
Like, yeah, 1pt a week.
It's just a lot more aboutwhat you're doing in between PTs.
And I do think I figured like,not necessarily that entire idea
(18:17):
out, but I did figure out howto start doing smaller sets of problems
like drills for myself andgiving myself different strategy
twists or kind of creatingdrills that would help me train myself
to get better at timing orbetter accuracy or certain things.
But so anyways, like, myoverall advice now is like, focus
on one PT a week, handful offull time to runtime sections depending
(18:39):
on where you're at and you'restudying peppered throughout the
week.
No more than three or five.
I'd say you're overdo it pastthat and then a couple of targeted
drills each day on top of that.
So those might be focused ontiming, they might be focused on
certain question types, theymight be focused on a certain strategy.
Maybe it's all of the above,but really just making sure that
you have, oh, here's anotherthing that I didn't do until way
(19:00):
later in my process.
Have small reachable goalsevery week.
I just was like, goals, schmoles.
Who cares?
I'm.
My goal is.
Goal is like, get a 180.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Whatever.
It was.
Yeah.
I don't even remember what mygoal was, but it was just like, I
want to crush this test.
And I wasn't literallythinking about how I was going to
get there.
I was just thinking about theend goal.
And I think that happens to alot of people.
(19:20):
But what's going to be helpfulis thinking about the how and articulating
it week after week, holdingyourself to a goal that you can get
to.
I think people don'tunderstand the purpose of that.
And I think some people thinkthat it's like, oh, well, then I'm
like, not shooting for thebest that I could possibly do, right?
Yes.
And it's like, no, if you dobetter, that's bonus.
(19:41):
Like, it's more helpful.
Sorry.
No, no, no, no, no.
You're right.
And.
But it's like, we also havemacro goals and micro goals, so,
like, you know, it's importantto have a goal score.
And it's like, okay, maybethat goal score is a 180 for most
people.
It shouldn't be.
And I don't mean because mostpeople can't score a 180 statistically.
That is.
It is a curve test.
So 180 is, like, right.
(20:03):
Like, that literally would notdeal with more than 50% of the people
could.
Right, right.
But that's not my point.
My point isn't that any oneperson can't score a 180.
It's that, like, well, okay,but you'll accept lower than a 180,
right?
Like, what's the score?
And it's not to say, like, so it's.
It's just like, a little bitmore complicated than that.
Right?
It's like, where's the, like,range these scores?
(20:24):
Like, I would be happy.
Like, where's the thing thatyou'd be like, that you'd be.
That you'd be happy with.
Right.
You'd accept.
You wouldn't want to retake it.
And if It's.
If it's 180, I would thinklong and hard about whether that's
true.
Right.
That's, like, so extreme.
Yeah, I think kind of likewhat I held my.
Like, I don't know.
I just had this idea in theback of my mind where if I wasn't
shooting for a 180, that I'mdoing myself disservice.
(20:44):
Like I'm not, I'm not livingup to my full potential and it's
like, whoa, whoa.
Is that mindset helpful?
Like again, going back to thewell, is this getting me towards
the place that I want to be?
Not at all.
It's getting me further awayfrom it because you're just that
much added pressure at leaston myself, was really making myself
change my strategies up andtime practice, which then made my
(21:04):
scores go lower and it wasjust like too much pressure not working.
Yeah, so, so that's like themacro goal.
But then also what we'retalking about too is like breaking
that goal down into bite sized pieces.
Right.
You cannot go into every week,into every drill, into every practice
test just thinking, I want mygoal score because, you know, not
to bring it back to sports.
(21:26):
Right.
But if you're like trying torun like a five minute whatever.
I don't, where, I don't knowwhere I'm going with this.
That's a really fast.
A five minute mile.
Yeah, yeah.
So if you're trying, if you'retrying to run a five minute mile,
right, that isn't your goalfrom day one.
You're not like, well, thismile, I'm going to do it.
Right.
You recognize that that's abig, that's a very lofty goal and
(21:48):
you're gonna like break itdown and like really try it, you
know?
And, and honestly, my goal is just.
To run a mile.
Well, right, Exactly.
What that's, that's my literalgoal is just to run a mile.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But the point is like this,this test is like just as, I mean
if you think about how longpeople train for this test, like
it's not that dissimilar fromlike marathons, you know, it's actually
(22:08):
like, and, and, and, and youshould treat it that way.
Right?
So your goal for every day isnot just to get your goal time on
the race, right.
It's breaking it down.
How do I get there?
And I think we understand thatwhen we think about physical goals.
Because it's like, well, I'mout of shape, like I can't do that
right away.
And we just don't quiterecognize that this is not, this
(22:31):
is the same.
I mean my, someone asked methe other day, like, how would I
do on the test right now?
And I was like, not well.
I would not do well.
And it's not because I can't.
Like, I definitely, I knowthat I can.
I've, I've Done it.
I've done well.
But, like, I'm not studyingfor the test, and I'm also not teaching
the test right now because,like, I'm not teaching it in the
way that I used to.
(22:52):
Right.
I'm teaching it, like.
Like this and more like, holistically.
But I'm not, like, doing asmany problems as.
As I once did.
And so, like, I'm out of practice.
Like, I would not be able todo very well if I just sat down and
take the test, you know, today.
Cause I'm out of practice.
I'm out of shape.
It's like, you know, I also,like, haven't been running very much,
(23:12):
so if I ran, I wouldn't expectmyself to run very fast, you know?
So what I'm hearing is that Iwould crush you in a practice LSAT
right now.
But we'd probably.
You.
You'd honestly still probablybeat me in the mile.
Not gonna lie.
Yeah, I'm not super worriedabout that.
But, you know.
Perfect.
Perfect, perfect.
(23:34):
But what?
What.
Okay, so where.
Where did we leave off?
That's a question for another person.
That's not me.
You were like, okay, so wetalked about pts.
We talked about how to dothat, right?
What, what?
I mean, so let's talk about,like, okay, so granted, like, you
(23:55):
did not have the process thatyou would recommend to other people.
Like, what did.
What.
What worked for you?
What did you figure out thatthat did help you along the way?
Right.
So as long as I.
Or as soon as I startedgetting more serious about my studying
and a little bit moreorganized, that was when I don't
know if I was, like,thoroughly making small, reachable
goals each week, but I was atleast finding an area of focus each
(24:17):
week.
And then I remember that Iwould drill a lot of either, like,
a single question type orsomething that I started liking to
do a lot on my own was justlook at parallels, look at bridges
between question types andsee, like, what different question
types can.
I all can all be approachedwith the same first few steps.
That's when I started gettingreally into, I mean, just approaching
question types.
The way that I teach myspotting the gap class now, where
(24:38):
it's like flaw strength and weaken.
Sufficient assumption,necessary assumption, pseudosufficient
assumption, all of those.
You want to just start byspotting that gap or hole, which
I think that a lot of that wasjust, like, overall strategy was
getting a little bit tighter.
I was realizing which thingsgot me to the right answers.
And then I would bring it allback together for a PT probably,
(24:59):
I don't know if it was weekly,but probably a little bit more structured
at that point.
And you're still finding thatstructure over again, right?
18 months or so.
Yes, exactly.
Cool.
Well, 18 months.
Thank you.
I just did a little mental math.
(25:21):
Uh, what else?
Yeah, so, like, I guess, Ithink, I think a lot of people feel
the way that you did at thebeginning, right?
Like, I'm gonna do it my way.
I'm not gonna do.
And, and it's like, listen,like, there's no one size fits all
approach.
Like, it's not, you know, whenwe say, like, follow a path or a
curriculum, like there'svariation within that.
(25:43):
Like there's ways to adapt itto your needs and your own style.
So I think, you know, listen,I understand the temptation to do
this on your own in your ownway, and you should just, just know
where, like, know where that.
Know where that's reasonableand where it isn't.
Right?
And listen, like, we're like,I say all the time, sometimes people
in, like, classes or, youknow, in person courses, they're
(26:05):
like, what happens if I don'tdo, like, if I don't do the home.
I mean, in, in courses orwhatever, I'm like, what happens
if you don't do the homework?
Nothing.
Like, it's.
I don't care.
I'm not going to do anything.
No, like, you're going torealize you're in a.
You're an adult and like,you're, you're here for a reason.
Like, you're here because youwant to be a lawyer.
You're here, you know, you'rehere because you want to get a certain
(26:27):
score on this test, whichultimately is because you want to
be a lawyer.
So, like, and that's, that's,that's for you.
Like, this is not, this is notelementary school.
Like, I'm not going to, like,you're not going to get in trouble.
It's just like, it's just thisis the way that you can make this
easier on yourself or harderon yourself or succeed or possibly
fail.
Like, you know, when it comesto, Should I reinvent the wheel?
Should I do this, like,completely of my own design?
(26:50):
Like, yeah, there's, there'sways to make that work.
In general, it's going to takeyou a whole lot longer or it's just,
it's, it's not even, it's notgoing to work you.
Right.
That's what so badly wanted toreinvent the wheel.
And honestly, I kind of cameup with a Pseudo wheel by the end
of it.
That was.
Yeah, well, it's like, I think.
I mean, I think just took so long.
Like we keep saying.
Yeah.
Like, for.
(27:11):
For me personally, like, itwas like.
Yeah.
Like, eventually I sort of.
Of.
My own discovery was like, Ishould be doing these pts once a
week.
I mean, I wish I just.
Someone had told me.
That makes sense.
Yeah.
I wish I just listened whenpeople told me that at the beginning.
It would be a lot easier, youknow, I also think my life, though.
How many things have I learnedthe hard way?
(27:31):
How many things have youlearned the hard way?
I know we're both like, I'velearned a lot of things the hard
way.
I think many.
Maybe I'm a little bit betternow just through trial and error.
No, you don't think so.
Your face is telling me no.
Comparative for you versus me.
No, no, no.
You've grown.
You've grown.
You've grown.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, no, no, I would never.
I mean, but.
No, I would never.
(27:55):
No, no, no.
But, like, yeah, the.
The other thing is, like.
I mean, it's something that wetalk about literally all the time,
but, like, finding people whoare doing this at the same time as
you.
Yes.
Wait, we can talk about that.
I mean, I probably talkedabout that similarly, like, on the
first podcast that we didabout finding Community, but I was
really stubborn about just notwanting to reach out to, Like, I
(28:16):
had friends that were studyingfor the LSAT even.
I just didn't even want toreach out for them, to them, for
help, because part of it waslike the, you know, complex where
I was like, what if they'redoing better than me?
I don't know.
I don't want to, like, dealwith that.
I knew some of them were doingbetter than me, so I was like, I
don't want to deal with that.
Yeah.
And then I feel like the otherpart was just like.
Well, I mean, a lot of itprobably had to do with that because
(28:37):
I was also scared to, youknow, show myself struggling in front
of them.
And then it's like, no,everybody's struggling.
I think as soon as I startedto reach out, I was like, oh, you
know, regardless of where ourscores are at, like, we can each
teach from or learn from andteach each other.
And then also there's just somany overlap.
So many overlaps between whatyou feel like maybe you.
You're the only personexperiencing something, and it's
(28:59):
just like, this test is theend of the world.
It's not just you.
The other thing Is like, youcan find new friends for the Elsa.
Like, I.
You know, like, it's just.
Exactly.
Even if you don't know people.
Yeah.
It's.
I can understand not wantingto do this with people who you have,
like, long outside friendshipswith, because, like, yeah, it is.
It is complicated.
Like, you don't really want tonecessarily, like, have that, like,
(29:20):
direct comparison in front ofyou or whatever, but, like.
Like, through live class, through.
Through, like, any other, youknow, through discord servers, through
whatever.
Like, finding other people whomaybe you only knew through this
test.
And, like, we've seen it somany times, those, like, blossom
into, like, actualfriendships, which is amazing.
But, like, right.
If.
Even if it doesn't get to thatpoint, it still is, like, really
helpful to have, like, an LSATbuddy, you know, for accountability.
(29:45):
Yeah, exactly.
So.
Yeah.
All right.
You made it.
Ultimately, you made it.
It was a long, twisting.
I'm so glad I didn't give up.
I mean, I think I literallydid give up a few times, but I kept
going.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
So listen, it's like.
I think there's a lot of.
I think.
I'm glad we structured it theway we did, because it's, like, we
(30:08):
got to see how you got here,and then also, like, pausing along
the way to be like, yeah, andhow could you have done this a little
bit?
How could you have sped thisup a little bit?
How could you have made iteasier on yourself?
Because here's the thing.
You cannot make this process easy.
It is hard.
This test is hard.
It's gonna take a long time.
Like, I wish I could just makeit easy for everyone, but it's not.
(30:30):
It's not.
Right.
It.
It's.
It.
It is a hard test.
Right?
Like, you can make it way easier.
You can make it, like, not sodisruptive or upsetting or.
Or.
Or long or any.
Anything, right?
You can.
You can take the steps to makethis as easy as possible as for.
For yourself, and you can have.
You can have somewhat of agratifying experience.
This test teaches you a lot ofthings that are applicable outside
(30:52):
of this test.
Absolutely.
I 100% believe that maybe wecan do an episode about that.
How the lessons apply.
My first lesson is still slow.
Is smooth, smooth, fast.
There you go.
It's a little teaser.
We'll get.
We'll get right into it.
Yay.
All right, that's all the timewe have for today.
Thank you, Bailey, for sharingyour story.
(31:13):
Thank you, Alex, forsoliciting my story 100%.
Anytime.
All right, Talk to you thelistener soon.
We'll talk to you soon.
We'll see you soon.
Watch us on YouTube.
Subscribe.
Like and subscribe.
Comment.
If you have questions.
Comment.
Comment.
Oh, they could comment.
That's easier than emailing.
But you can also email.
(31:33):
You can also email.
No one emails us.
I don't understand.
Podcast@7stage.com but comment.
Comment on YouTube.
Comment on YouTube.
We'll respond there.
All right, that's all we've got.
Thank you.
Bye.
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