Episode Transcript
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(00:13):
Welcome to the A Game podcast withNick Lamonia digging into the minds and
experiences of some of today's brightestentrepreneurs in real estate and business,
along with Hollywood Stars, UFC fighters.
And your favorite rock bands.
People that have figured outhow to overcome obstacles,
take chances, live boldly.
And no matter what they do,they always bring their A game.
(00:48):
Alright, my guest today in the AGame podcast is Brandon Lindsay.
And again, the whole point of this.
Podcast as a whole is to showaverage people every day that
they can achieve extraordinarythings in life and in business.
And this episode is no different.
We have about 350 plus episodes rightnow of some of the top entrepreneurs,
real estate investors, fighters,athletes, entertainers, and people
you will ever hear from that.
(01:09):
Just in these past episodes, youcan probably go back and figure
out how to achieve success.
By just listening to the past episodesfrom some of the most successful people,
teach you some of the shortcuts andsafety nets that they have figured
out to get their safer and faster, aswell as some of the stake they've made
along the way that you do not have to.
And if those episodes are not enough, wehave another banger today with Brandon
Lindsay, who's a master of constructionproject management and rehabbing, and
(01:33):
we say a lot during this episode thatthe money is made or lost in the middle.
You buy a house.
You sell a house, so where'sthe money made or lost?
It's in the middle.
It's picking the right contractors,having the right conversations,
getting the right scopes of work,having the right materials, having
the right expectations, and thenmanaging that expectation and managing
those draw schedules along the way.
Making sure you have the right insurance,making sure you have all your numbers
(01:54):
correct, all these different things.
And we go through A to Z about howto find contractors, how to talk to
contractors, how to separate yourself,how to find it, if they're good or bad,
how to make yourself look good or bad.
All the different steps along the way.
Some things to look at for insurance,how to have the right scope of work,
like all the things we just talked about.
So he gives fantastic information.
There is not a minute offluff in this episode.
He talks all about reallystraight, good, logical answers.
(02:17):
And of course we talk about what'shappening right now in the market
in 2025 with prices potentiallygoing up, tariffs coming in.
Is labor and materials being affected?
Are his timelines being affected?
How is supply and demand being affected?
All these different things that areextremely important for anybody who is
currently in or getting into real estate.
Whether you're a contractor, aninvestor, a builder, or renter, this
(02:38):
is a huge episode for you to figureout if this is something you want to
do, if something you're going to door continue to do complete quality.
Interview here.
So I really appreciated thebrands of the Total Stud.
Check out the show notes to figureall the ways to connect with him and
his rehabbers playbook, which is avery important community with a lot
of really good resources and a lot ofreally good connections and information
(03:00):
at an extremely affordable price.
Very cheap.
So listen to it.
Check the show notes, follow him withsocial media, check out his YouTube,
check out the Rays playbook, and ofcourse, please subscribe to the podcast,
the only fee we have for this podcast.
Please just subscribe.
The A Game Podcast Real Estate Investorfor Entrepreneurs is available everywhere.
You watch and listen to your podcast.
And if you cannot find it for somereason, just go to our site, Nick
nick nick.com/links, L-I-N-K-S,and you'll see all the ways to
(03:25):
connect with us on this podcast.
So please take a second and subscribe.
It really goes a long way.
And while you're there, you'llfind us on social media.
Please link up with uson social media as well.
We have everything from TikTok to YouTube,to Facebook, to Instagram, everywhere
you see, and we'll be posting reallygood content and clips from the show.
The way that we continue to get 350 morefantastic guests is that when I post these
clips, you let Brandon know that you gotsome great value from his information by
(03:49):
liking it, sharing it, leaving a comment,asking a question, tagging a friend.
And that really helps things go.
So if you're not following us, pleaseconnect with us so we can also follow you.
And the big thing here is Iwant to do real estate together.
If you wanna make some money together.
Let's connect.
Send me the words real estate, eitherthrough any of my social medias, through
a direct message, preferably throughInstagram is one of the main ones I check.
(04:09):
But send the words real estateand then I'll know to connect with
you or just text me the words realestate to 5 1 6 5 4 0 5 7 3 3.
Again, text the word real estate to 5 1 65 4 0 5 7 3 3 and then we can discuss if
you would like to buy real estate from me.
So say to me or find some way topartner up or do deals together and
figure out what that conversationlooks like or what that even is,
(04:31):
is we can have that conversation.
So thank you very muchfor Brendan coming on.
Thank you guys for listening.
A Game podcast.
Ladies and gentlemen, check outthe rehab playbook, subscribe to
the A Game podcast and have a fan.
Fantastic day.
All right, my guest today is anentrepreneur, real estate developer and
investor in construction development,black belt implementer and educator.
(04:52):
Fighting out of Richmond, Virginiaat a time in our market with
uncertainty, tariffs, supplychain issues, and so much more.
It is more important than ever toget systems and processes in place to
limit our risk and maximize efficiencyand provide real-time education on
what's happening today in construction.
So our real estate renovatorsnationwide can have better results.
(05:12):
And who better to bring us that info?
The, the founder of the RehabPlaybook on a mission to provide
tools, training, and community.
To rehab and build houseson the highest level.
Please welcome to the A Game podcast,Mr. Brandon Lindsay, welcome sir.
What's up everybody?
And Nick, thanks so much for having me on.
It's great to connect, great to be here.
Love having good conversationsabout this industry.
(05:33):
So man, I'm excited.
Thanks for having me.
You.
I'm excited to have you on, man.
It's been a while since I had like agood like solid rehab guy on who really
knows construction and you know, likeI said in the intro, I, I think it's
important because right now there's alot of uncertainty about like, well,
what's happening with terrorists?
People that too, like you and I hada really good conversation about a
week or so ago and I was like, man,the timing for this is perfect, man.
(05:54):
So I appreciate you coming on andsharing your knowledge with us.
But for somebody who might not be.
A hundred percent familiar withyou yet, can you give us a little
bit of a background on who youare and where you came from?
Sure, yeah.
I'll try to keep it short andsweet for the most part, but
it, we will see where it goes.
But I, I started off, you know, I was justlike many people who are probably watching
this or in this industry, I'm a victimof the book, rich Dad, poor Dad, you
(06:16):
know, and in college my buddy gave me thebook, um, fell in love with real estate.
Immediately we started investingactually with my buddy at the
time I was still in college.
Bought our first rental and afterthat, you know, at the time I was
fresh outta college afterwards andI knew, um, I wanted to get back
to Richmond and do real estate.
So moved back home.
Wanted to be close to family too,of course, but I wanted to get into
(06:38):
real estate, didn't really know how.
And somehow it was truly a blessing.
I don't know how it fell in my lap,but a job as a project manager for
real estate investing and developmentcompany kind of fell in my lap and.
I took the job.
It's funny, I didn't know anythingabout construction at the time.
My boss took me to Lowe's.
I'll never forget this story.
I love starting with this story 'causenow I'm a construction guy, but he took
(07:01):
me to Lowe's, filled up the toolboxwith a bunch of tools we checked out.
I'm sitting there thinking like, sweet,I get all these construction tools.
Awesome.
And uh, he takes me out to my NissanAltima just 'cause I wasn't a construction
guy yet, didn't have a truck and.
He starts, you know, quizzingme on all the tools, and I
(07:22):
failed that test miserably.
The only thing I think Igot right was a hammer.
You know, everything else I didn't know.
And at that point I thought,oh man, my job's over.
You know, I'm, I'm fired after this.
But anyway, at the time I noticedthat void in the marketplace.
And you kind of mentioned italready, you said, you know, there's
not many people who really focuson this part of the business.
(07:44):
And when I was kind of in those earlystages, I didn't have anywhere to turn,
anywhere to look to find out more aboutscheduling, budgeting, how to create a
scope of work, how to talk to contractors,what you need from contractors.
So I always knew if I stayed in thisbusiness, I'm gonna try to fill that void.
Fast forward, right?
(08:05):
A couple years in that, withthat company, I jump out, I start
flipping, I start building, starta class, a construction company.
I start consulting.
And then I think, you know, this is aperfect time to start filling that void.
So I wrote a book, it was calledThe Rehabers Playbook, and uh,
it was just a book at the time.
And by the way, itwasn't a published book.
(08:26):
You won't find it on Amazon.
Maybe one day in the future you will.
But it was just like this PDF with abunch of grammar errors, a bunch of
punctuation errors, and I charged people$97 for me to just send them this.
PDF, right.
And I got good reviews.
Luckily, I just think people were beingnice saying that, you know, not telling
(08:47):
me all the spelling errors I had in it.
But eventually I said, you know what?
I think people are gonna wannaask questions about this.
So I started a group, youknow, a Facebook group, right?
And then I started thinking,well, you know, people might
want videos around this too.
So I put some videos together, I startedgiving people videos, and then I thought,
you know, maybe we should do weeklytraining calls so we can all get together
(09:10):
and discuss things in more detail.
Because in construction, whichis so complicated, so nuanced.
It's hard to just answer all the questionsin one way, you know, especially 'cause
everybody learns in different ways.
So after all that time, itturned into a group of a bunch of
passionate, active rehabbers andbuilders from across the country.
And that brings us to today wherewe have 150, 160 people from.
(09:34):
30 different states, abunch of different markets.
Everybody's super passionate.
Not only about the playbook, butabout rehabbing and building.
We're, we're all talkingdaily, we're all communicating,
helping each other daily and.
That's the Rehabers playbook,and that's really my baby.
You know?
That's my passion.
I, I love growing that community.
I love talking about that stuff.
And then the other side of my businessis I still rehab and build houses.
(09:58):
Really more than anything.
I build new construction houses, but stillfind myself in rehabs from time to time.
And that brings us to today,where it's just a lot of fun.
Everything I do, I havea passion for, and.
I'm incredibly blessed for where I'm at.
That's incredible, man.
There's so many good things to pileoff here and I think starting with
people watch these flip This houseshows and they go, I buy a house.
(10:19):
I'll fix it up, I'll sell it.
I make a bunch of money.
I. The reality is there's all these horrorstories about people that lose their
butt, and obviously it's in the middle.
You know, there's problems withall the things you just said.
Not knowing how to create the properexpectations, not having the right
scope of work, not having the rightcontractor, not having the right budget,
going over time, going over budget.
So there's all these things inthe middle that I don't think
(10:41):
people pay enough attention to.
They get caught up with the gloryof the before and after, and it's
like, yeah, but where's that middle?
So I feel like you're the glue,you're the peanut butter and jelly.
Between the bread for when you buyand when you get paid, and I think
that's the most important part.
So in your opinion, I know we'll godeeper into some things, but what are some
things that you see as far as investorsthat come along that's one of like the
(11:01):
key mistakes that they make, that theylike a beginner investor listening right
now, it's like, what are two or threethings that you can say, Hey man, here's.
The most common things I see newinvestors get wrong when they start
getting into renovating homes.
It's a great question.
This business does revolvearound making a profit, right?
Which means you have tobuy right, sell, right?
And then you have to analyze a deal withthat budget piece in the middle, and I
(11:23):
think you laid it out perfectly there.
People get hurt most in the middle.
Where is most of our time and money lost?
I think everybody can agreethat it's construction.
So I'm kind of diverting off of thequestion there, but where I'm going
with that is I think budgeting.
Is huge, you know, obviously, andwe're all numbers guys in real estate,
so I think people understand that.
But running unrealistic budgets,almost lying to yourself is
(11:47):
a huge mistake people make.
You know, they're like, oh, wellsomebody said that I can get this done
for $2,000, but I have a connection.
I have a guy, right?
So I can get it donefor a thousand dollars.
Never works out that way.
And even if you get a bid for athousand dollars, some of the mistakes
or some of the things that areoverlooked will add it up to $2,000.
(12:07):
So that's an obvious number one.
Number two, and this kind of goes alongwith not only the biggest mistake I
see people make, but also the biggeststruggle that real estate investors
tell me about is hiring contractors.
Just blanket hiring contractors.
It's always difficult to find theright people, but when it comes to the
mistake in that part of the business,I think people are looking for the
(12:31):
cheapest guy every single time.
They get three bids, A, B, and C. A'sthe lowest B's a middle, C's the highest,
they always go with a, you know, andthat does, you know, just because it's
the lowest bid, that's not why you'rebidding out with three contractors.
You're vetting their reputation, you'revetting their business practices, you're
vetting how well they can solve problems.
(12:52):
So I see people price shopping.
A lot more than contractor shopping.
And that, I would say is probablyjust as big, if not the biggest.
It kind of goes along with budgeting.
That would be one ofthe biggest things too.
And number three, I mean,this is a great question.
Lemme see if I can pull a third one out.
If not, it's okay.
We'll, we'll other thingswill pop up as we go.
(13:12):
I don't wanna force a thirdif there's not a No, no.
I got a question.
I might answer it for you.
Um, let's see.
I would say also.
That people don't understandhow important it is to create
a very thorough scope of work.
You know, people kind of just throwstuff together and then when it comes to
actually do the work, they have no scopeof work to reference with that contractor
(13:35):
to see if they did the job to completion.
And your scope of work is.
Hand in hand with your budget, right?
So all these pieces kind of move together.
So if your scope of work is notcomplete, if you're missing even
the smallest thing on it, yourbudget's not gonna be complete too.
So I think people underestimatejust the pure importance of a scope
of work, a detailed scope of work.
(13:57):
Some people will do projects withouteven creating a really good one.
You know, they'll kind of justthrow some stuff together.
And in the Rehabers playbook, whatwe teach a lot of people, what we
preach is that your scope of workis your centerpiece of everything.
'cause if you think about it, yourbudget revolves around it, your
contractors revolve around it, yourschedule revolves around it too.
(14:18):
So it's really that centerpiece, and Ithink a lot of people underestimate that
and don't put that together properly.
So I told you I'd get three.
That's, yeah.
That's a fantastic answer, man.
I like all those.
And I think, uh, I, I always referto these questions as the onion.
Mm-hmm.
You know, every time you answer somethingit's like, yeah, but this, but the,
there's a thousand questions in eachone of those basic three principles.
So I think there's aregood pillars to go off of.
(14:39):
So if we break these downa little bit deeper, right.
I'm trying to think like sequentially,like what's the best way to attack it?
So let's say.
Somebody's gone, and thishappens all the time.
I'm sure you used to this.
People that are new, they go,I'm like, I got this house.
Like, can you tell me if it's a good deal?
I go, okay, well tell me about it.
They go, well.
Like I asked the contractor,what's it gonna cost to fix up?
And they expect the contractorjust to come back and go $57,000.
(15:02):
And I'm like, that's on you.
Like the variation of like,are you putting in a playschool
kitchen that's made of plastic?
Like there's so many, and peopleexpect the contractor to do the
heavy lifting for them, and it'slike you don't understand that you
have to give them a lot of direction.
So they know what type of materials,like what type of renovation
are you doing as a rental.
It's a flip.
So what's one of the first things youwould say if somebody's looking to
(15:23):
get into this and figure out, okay, Ifound the house, I want to fix it up.
What are some good questions for themto take into consideration to give that
contractor and even think about beforethey, I. Really jump in and commit
to figure out what type of renovationthey should do and what type of things
they should prep that contractorfor to even get some sort of bid.
I think that's such a good question.
(15:43):
I'm sitting here like, people don'tthink of that very often and, and
it's a big problem in our industry ispeople relying on their contractors
to essentially do the deal for them.
Mm-hmm.
You know, they're relying on thecontractor to create your scope of work.
That's your job.
You're the project manager,they rely on them to give them
the bid for the whole project.
(16:05):
It's your job to make thebudget, not the contractors.
And let's be honest, we're inthis business to make money.
Are you gonna put so much responsibilityon the contractor to make sure your
deal is actually gonna be profitable?
That's actually gonna bethe right scope of work.
Right?
So I think in a sense, notcompletely, but in a sense.
I would tell them not to reallyask a contractor to do all
(16:28):
that heavy lifting, right?
I would say, look, it's yourjob to create the scope of work.
Then give it to the contractor.
Tell them to create a bidand make sure their bid is
itemized to that scope of work.
Or at least make sure that bid directlyreferences that scope of work, right?
Make your budget before you ask forthe bid so that you can at least, at
(16:48):
the very least, you're learning, right?
You might not know much aboutconstruction, but if you put a budget
together, you get three bids andthey're way higher than what you
budgeted, then you're learning, right?
But at the very least, you'regonna grow in this business.
Get to the extent where now you can havebetter conversations with contractors,
know what it really should cost, and thenyou find out are they overcharging you?
(17:10):
Are they undercharging you?
Undercharging is a thing, right?
Or are they at the right price?
So again, I would just say I. It's notthe contractor's job to do all that
heavy lifting, and I cannot tell you howmany people's deals are ruined by saying
that the contractor said it's gonna cost$60,000 and it actually costs 90,000.
Now they're blaming the contractoreven though it's just, it's not their
(17:33):
responsibility in the first place.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, it's a great answer, dude.
So I like that you're bringing thisup because I get people a lot that
they go, well, like I wanna learn.
Like, just gimme numbers, likewhat's a kitchen, what's a bathroom?
And I'm like, mm-hmm.
Well, that, that's like a moving targetfirst off, not only for the type of
rehab, but for the area that you're in.
Like that even makes a difference.
Like real estaterenovations are very local.
(17:55):
Like there's, there's gonna bedifferent areas, different things.
But when you look at some ofthese things and you go, well,
what are the budgets here?
I tell everybody that the,the worst you're ever gonna
be at, this is the first one.
Because let's say you look at a houselike everybody does, and then you
go, oh, the house looks like it needskitchens, floorings, bathroom paint.
Kitchen, whatever, 40 grand fit, likeyou always use like lower numbers that
(18:15):
sound like 40, 50 grand sounds right, andthen you get the contractors in there and
four or five contractors give you prettygood numbers that all say it's $72,000.
Like now you know that in yourmarket, that type of rehab is gonna
cost between 65 and 75,000, and nowyou're gonna have to go back on that
first deal and maybe renegotiate.
But they don't, instead of going backto the the person or that selling the
(18:37):
property and trying to renegotiatethe price, they go back to the
contractor and go, I know you saidit's 75, but I need it done for 45.
And now you expect to get a $75,000renovation for $45,000, and you
can do that, but it's not gonnabe the quality that you expected
outta the $75,000 renovation.
So what is it that people would rather go?
Back and lie to themselves aboutthe numbers, then learn that.
(19:00):
Because you know, in myexperience that's what it is.
Like you, you take those budgetsfrom the first deal you have
and now you start to learn.
And that's like a living, breathingdocument that your $75,000
renovation 18 months ago mightbe an $85,000 renovation today.
'cause prices of stuff go up.
Huge, amazing points.
Man.
This is already such a good conversation'cause we're talking about things
(19:22):
that like, honestly, I feel likeI even need to talk about more.
I. Um, but these are all big picturethings in this industry that you see
people make mistakes all the time,and what you're talking about is not
something that only new investors do.
It's something that I've seensome of the biggest investors
I know still do to themselves.
Let's be honest, I've lied tomyself a time, you know, like
(19:46):
I've said, I've gotten that donebefore at a thousand dollars.
Like, for example, installation.
I cannot, for the life of me getmy head wrapped around that price.
And when I look in the mirror, itmight just be me still expecting
those prices I had in 2016.
Right?
So these are all great points and it'stough, you know, that's a mindset thing.
(20:06):
That's like a, again, looking in themirror and being like, look, this is
gonna cost one 40, not 100, you know?
And I gotta come to grips with that.
And the best thing you can do islearn so that you don't end up
in those deals so that you can bereally comfortable with the project.
Now you can rehab and buildwith a lot more confidence, but
again, I find myself doing it.
(20:26):
I feel like even the biggest investorsfind themselves doing it, and the best
thing you can do is just constantlylook back after your project.
We have a. Tendency of finishinga project, closing the book.
Move on to the next one.
Before you close that book, go backthrough what did you spend on insulation?
Can I learn from that next time?
(20:47):
Really look at it.
Don't just close the book and move on.
Go back and analyze the deal.
Actually, I was creeping on you, Nick.
I um, I was looking atyour YouTube channel today.
I saw that you had mybuddy Daniel k Clayman on.
Um, yes.
Yeah, not too long ago.
All this from Virginia Guy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's in my market.
Yeah.
So, um, love Daniel.
Great guy.
And he has that softwarerehab evaluator, right?
(21:10):
If you're not using his software,which of course I recommend, uh, that's
what we recommend everybody with theplaybook use, but you have to have a
software that helps you go back postproject and look at what you did.
Look at what you can learn andapply to the next project, right?
If you don't have that.
You're not gonna grow, you'renot gonna learn these lessons.
You're just gonna keepending up in that cycle.
(21:31):
And those are the peoplethat say, you know what?
Flipping houses isn't for me.
I'm gonna go lend.
Right.
You know, buying, renting,refinancing, that's not for me.
I'm gonna go be a wholesaler.
Right.
There's so much money and so muchopportunity in this business.
You just have to be honest withyourself and learn and grow, and
people just refuse to do that.
They'd rather find the mm-hmm.
Path of least resistance.
(21:53):
You know, that's great info man.
Like, I don't want anybody thinking I'mbatting a thousand, like this is a, a
battle I have every day where I go backto my business partner, I'm like, I
don't think it's that amount of money.
And she's like, you're basing that ona house you did in this other market.
Like when you, you know, I'mlike, yeah, you know what?
You're right.
You're right.
So it's just the reality of the numbers.
So if we start to sequentially go throughthis now we identify a house, we come
(22:14):
up with a budget based on comparables.
Anybody listening, you pull it, youfigure out what you want to do, and now
you have some contractors and you go.
Here's what I think it's gonna be.
And what I like to do is showthem pictures of like, this is
the house I want it to look like.
Can you get it to this for this price?
But so now when somebody's saying,all right, Nick, well I understand.
I can look at comps.
I can see what the value shouldbe and what the vision should be.
(22:35):
What are some opening questions thatI. Maybe can give you credibility.
'cause I call contractors and we dothis band where they go, ah, you're
another guy who wants to flip properties.
Let me tell you how many calls I getfrom people like you when I go, you're
another contractor who tells me youcan do deals on time, but on budget.
That's right.
We tell you how many of you I'vebeen through, you know that's right.
And at some point yougotta go on the first date.
You just gotta trust each other.
But they never trust us.
(22:56):
We never trust them.
But you gotta find those people.
So on the side for getting credibilityfor yourself as the investor, what
are some tips you have of whatyou can do to separate yourself?
Or give yourself some credibility whenyou're first calling contractors to even
get them to go out and give your bids.
Great question.
Again, what I first would say is ifa contractor is already writing you
(23:17):
off for being a flipper, you mightcontinue to interview them, right?
Have the conversation, see if things turn.
Maybe they're joking.
Maybe there's something serious there,but you're interviewing that contractor
and that contractor's interviewing you.
And let me tell you something.
If they have this feeling of, I don'twanna work with a flipper, which there
are plenty of contractors who don't,I. They just got burned so many times,
(23:39):
or they have people who make some ofthe mistakes that we just talked about.
It might not be the guy for you.
I hate to say that, but itmight not be the guy for you.
You're going on all those dates.
You have to find that person who,you know, we have this subconscious,
and from our perspective,let's look at it this way.
If you have that perspective ofcontractors are all unorganized,
they're all out to get you.
(24:00):
They're all, um, badbusinessmen, whatever.
They're all gonna stealyour money and run away.
How's that relationshipgonna go in the future?
Right?
So you reverse that.
Same with them if they're alreadykind of hesitant to work with you as a
flipper, might not be the guy for you.
So the good questions to ask beforeI talk about the questions too.
The second point I would say is Ithink people get too afraid to talk
(24:22):
to contractors because they don'tknow anything about construction.
Let me tell you something,we're all learning something.
Every single day.
The best thing you cando is be transparent.
If you don't know something,don't try to fake it.
And trust me, there's plentyof contractors out there
that are trying to fake it.
Don't try to fake it.
Just be very honest.
Like, Hey, I don't know much about that.
What's your opinion?
(24:43):
You know, tell me more about this.
You teach me more about this.
I'm telling you the right contractor.
Is gonna respond to that better than youtrying to be something that you're not.
So you, you can ask all the rightquestions and there's plenty
of questions that you can askthat can give you credibility.
But don't go in trying tobe something you're not.
That's my second point when itcomes to asking the right questions.
(25:05):
What do you need for me?
To get started, right?
How can I prepare this job sowell for you that you just have
to show up and do your job?
Contractors are gonna respond to that.
Some of the biggest waste of timefor contractors is setting up the
project and closing out the project.
If you can help them on both of thoseand ask the questions around how you
(25:26):
can help them with both of those.
They like showing up to a job,getting it done and, and moving on.
Look, we're not all perfect.
We don't always get all thematerial for them on site.
Sometimes we have to runthe lows last minute.
We're on this business.
We've all done that before.
Yeah, right.
Um, it's the least fun part of thebusiness, but sometimes you have to do it.
But at least asking thatquestion is gonna put you in good
(25:48):
standing with that contractor.
Other things that you can askthat are very important that can
show that you at least know thisindustry is gimme your W nine.
They should know that you'reasking for the W nine and
when you ask for the W nine.
They should know that you arerunning business the right way.
If they need insurance, not all thetime you need it, but sometimes if
(26:08):
they need insurance or if they needlicensing, ask for that stuff too.
Just onboarding general stuff,subcontractor agreements, contractor
agreements, whatever it is.
Ask about all that stuff up front.
Another question to ask upfront is when can you start
get that off the table early?
You might be interviewing somebodythat can't start for two months.
(26:28):
I think they're gonna respond also.
To you being very courteous andcurious of their schedule so
that you can work with them.
Right.
Those are some things that popto the top of my head right now.
But I will say with all of those, noticethat you're asking questions, not just
to present yourself properly right.
But to make sure thatyou're matchmaking properly.
(26:52):
Right.
Uh, I just think people.
Underestimate the importance of seeing howthey respond to these questions, right?
Because if they don't respond positively,that's like if you ask for a W
nine, they're like, what's a W nine?
Right.
That's not your guy either, right?
If you ask for their schedule andthey're like, well, I don't know.
I'll get to it when I get to it.
(27:13):
We kind of have all thisstuff all over the place.
Maybe it's two weeks, maybe it's a month.
That might not be your guy either.
So you're asking questions that not onlypresent you properly, but really find
out if this is the right guy for you.
Of course, that's of course an interview,but I think people overlook that a lot.
They're just trying to present themselvestoo much instead of really just.
See what the contractorhas to provide for them.
(27:34):
Know, that's a long-winded answer,but No, it's a great answer, dude.
And you, you brought up anotherquestion in there where, you know,
I forgot to even have this on thedocket, but people ask about insurance.
So when you're going to do a renovationon a house, people think that they're
gonna call the person who gave 'emtheir homeowner's insurance, and
that's the person who's gonna do it.
And it's a completelydifferent type of policy.
So.
What are some tips or some adviceyou can give somebody for a,
(27:56):
what kind of insurance do youexpect the contractor to have?
And then B, what type of insurancedo you need to have to protect
yourself as the investor?
Every state's different.
Every business is different, right?
So if you hold like a contractor'slicense, and because every state's
different, I'll speak about Virginia.
If you hold a contractor's license,and this is also nationwide, if
you hold the license, you needto be carrying workers' comp.
(28:19):
And general liability.
You at least need to carry workers'comp and your subcontractor
has to carry workers' comp.
So that's if you're licensed,not everybody in this business is
licensed, which gets you unfortunatelymore into like a vulnerable place.
I. Because how easy is it?
I'll raise my hand.
Sorry, I'll raise my hand.
(28:40):
I've hired people withoutinsurance plenty of times, right?
And it's typically people I trust alot, but I think a lot of people in
this industry also understand theimportance of protecting themselves.
So you should potentially be carryingworkers' comp insurance because, and
this is where it gets complicated, butnot necessarily because your policy is
going to cover yourself for getting hurt.
(29:02):
Or that your policy is gonna coversomebody else for getting hurt.
Again, this is complicated, butit's so you can't get sued, right?
Because if somebody gets hurton the job and you're carrying a
worker's comp, I'm telling you,your policy is not gonna cover them.
But now when they go to sueyou, your policy is now in
a place where it could, I.
Cover that lawsuit, it couldat least protect you from
(29:22):
even entertaining the lawsuit.
So I would say workers' compis probably the biggest one.
General liability, of course,is a pretty darn big one too.
'cause things happen on projectsall the time and you just need some
help with those big, big problems.
Right.
Luckily, knock on wood, I've neverhad the big problems, but I'm aware
the longer I'm in this businessis the more vulnerable I am.
(29:44):
It's just the more reps youget and the more reps you get.
Is it more likely thatsomething's gonna happen?
So those are the two policiesyou really should carry.
Lastly, of course, I think everybodyknows this, but while we're on the
topic of insurance builders riskinsurance, you always need it.
You always have to have it.
No lender's gonna let youpurchase without builders risk.
So luckily there's a lot ofguardrails in place to make
(30:07):
sure you don't get out of it.
But if you're ever trying to get outof it, 'cause you're working with cash.
There's a reason lenders want it, right?
So builder's risk is the other one.
You definitely, definitely can'tskip if you have been kicking
yourself that you didn't startinvesting in real estate sooner.
Whether you're beginner, intermediate,or advanced, any way you're looking to
get it on a residential, commercial,land development, wholesaling,
(30:28):
fix and flus, whatever it is.
Let's find a way to get you involved insome projects, get you some properties,
whether you wanna sell some propertiesto me, whether you want to buy some
properties from me, whether residential,fix and flip, cash flow, multifamily,
whatever it is you're looking for.
Let's figure out a way to getyou involved or find a way for
us to partner up on some deals.
Reach out to me on any ofmy social media channels.
If you go on www.nic.com/links,you will see all the different
(30:52):
ways to connect with me.
And figure out how we can startto work together, make it happen.
Everybody that invests inreal estate always just says
they wish they did it sooner.
Best time to start is today.
That's really good info, man.
And you know, you, you mentionedsomething else earlier that really
piqued my interest that I don't thinkenough people talk about, but the scope
of work, I tell people you cannot havetoo much detail in the scope of work.
(31:15):
And I remember I took over thisrehab for this guy and he was like,
man, it's like it's almost done.
We're having some problems.
Can you just take itover and get this done?
And I was like, all right.
And there was like $119,000rehab in Charleston.
And the guy's like, well, he didn'tput the appliances in, he didn't
do this, he didn't do that, hedidn't do this, he didn't do that.
And so I call up the contract andI'm like, dude, what's going on here?
Like, I'm taking this project over.
(31:35):
And the guy's like, dude,look at your contract.
So I look at the contract and the scopeof work is like bathroom, electric.
I didn't even see kitchen inthere, let alone types of cabinets.
It said appliance, but itwasn't installed like there was.
So many details where people don'trealize that the contractor can
sit there and go, take me to court.
I said I would've put 'em there.
I didn't say I would've put 'em in.
I said, kitchen.
That's a kitchen.
You know what I mean?
(31:56):
Like there's all these little thingsin there that you don't know until
you run into a problem and go, crap.
I wish I would've had that in there.
So talk about some cardinal rules forlike a good, strong scope of work.
You know, what you said in the beginning,it can't be too detailed, right?
You know, it's funny, whenI first started teaching it.
I was like, don't go overboard, right?
Because you're just gonnaconfuse contractors.
(32:17):
Just give them the right information.
And then I just ended upgetting in trouble with that.
So I've, I've reversed that.
I'm with you.
Be as detailed as you can be.
Just don't add fluff in there, right?
Don't add anything that's notnecessary, but add things that are
necessary for their scope of work.
So.
Couple cardinal rules.
I'll say, number one, use a template.
People underestimate how much youcan document in this business,
(32:39):
because every project's different.
And I think that really gives usthis false sense of we're just
gonna fly by our pants, right?
That's not necessarily the case.
You can template things.
So for example, I have a scope of worktemplate for a cosmetic renovation.
I have a scope of work templatefor a new construction and for a
full gut renovation for additions.
(33:01):
I have all those different templatesand we give them to our group too.
And what it allows you to dois just make sure, two things.
It makes you go through a lot faster.
'cause right now you're notthinking, oh, I forgot kitchen.
Oh, I forgot bathroom.
Right.
You know, it's all there and nowyou're just filling in the blanks.
So it goes by faster.
But it also makes sure that kindof similarly, because you're going
(33:23):
faster, you're not missing anything.
Right.
Because like I just said, it'svery easy to, while you're
creating a scope of work, I mean.
If you think about it, your scope ofwork could be 30 items long, 40 items
long, with intense detail on each one.
Not intense, but a goodamount of detail on each one.
It's so easy to missstuff incredibly easy.
So if you have a template in place,it can help you make it a lot faster,
(33:45):
a lot more efficient, but alsomake sure it's more accurate too.
So that's number one.
Number two is, yeah, be detailedand it doesn't mean, you know, just
writing long paragraphs, bullet points.
Some of the best scopes of workjust have bullet points, right?
Um, electrical, you know, bullet 0.1.
Um, rewire Kitchen, bullet 0.2,update all electrical fixtures.
(34:08):
Bullet 0.3, all newswitches and plugs, right?
So you can use bullet points tomake it a lot more simple, like more
simplified with detail if that, youknow, that's a oxymoron, but I think
everybody trying to get at there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, that's awesome man.
This is really good info.
So time is flying by, man.
It's crazy, but the, a couple more things.
That's crazy.
Yeah, it's nuts dude.
(34:30):
So I, I had a couple more things I wannatouch on that I definitely wanna give time
to talk about the rehabbers playbook, butnow you're the king of project management.
So we kept talking about themiddle, during the middle.
Now, once somebody hires that contractor,talk a little bit about the in between,
like the phases of construction.
Like, 'cause this is wherepeople start to get it wrong.
You set the expectation from the front.
But now how do you handleit from start to finish?
(34:51):
You know, communications, uh,draw schedules, checking in
on stuff, checks and balances,like little things like that.
Talk about some of the safetynet you put in there during that
process from start to finish.
There's a lot in there, like you said,material management, quality control,
you know, safety site cleanliness.
All that stuff, and it's hard to reallytouch on everyone without going into
(35:13):
detail, but I would say this, makesure you're always keeping up with
your schedule, whether it's a Ganttchart, whether it's a spreadsheet.
I think with everything I just mentionedthere with how detailed and how much
nuance we could talk about, if youstart with your schedule, everything
can really flow around it becausewhat you'll see is one job is done.
Well now it's our quality control check.
(35:35):
Now we have to go take a look.
A job's about to start.
Let me be on site to make sure that theyhave all the material right, material
management, making sure it either getsdelivered properly in completion, set
in the right place, nothing's damaged.
Safety.
That's just a generalcheck every single time.
So we go through this with the playbookand we have a good amount of detail.
(35:56):
And it's not that everythingis incredibly difficult, right?
Like a safety check.
It's not super difficult.
You gotta make sure justthere's no holes in the floor.
A door's not gonna fall over, you know,everything's placed properly, but it
is just all these different checks.
So I would say make sure you're alwayskeeping up with your schedule and
that can really dictate for you andalways be looking two weeks ahead.
(36:19):
Because you have to be on site.
I don't know what you think.
Some people might think otherwise,but a lot of people eventually start
getting back to, you have to be on siteonce a week, and if you're not on site,
you have to have pictures once a week.
You have to have boots on the ground.
That gets on the job once a week,and that's minimum in my opinion,
because the one week that you don'tshow up and you don't take a look is
(36:42):
a week where everything goes wrong.
It always works out that way.
I don't know what it is.
Mm-hmm.
It's like a law just as much as gravity.
When you don't show up,something's gonna go wrong.
And for me, because I know that is theway it works, if I don't show up one
day that I'm supposed to, I'm going tosleep thinking about that project until
the next day where I just first thingin the morning, I shoot to the project
(37:06):
and make sure it's not burned down.
So just keep your eyes on theproject, keep good communication
with the contractors.
What do you need?
What do you need?
What do you need?
Make sure everything's there for them.
Make sure the project's safe.
And another piece of projectmanagement during the construction
is leverage the fact that youcan post things on site, right?
You can post your scope of work onsite, you can post pictures, you
(37:28):
can post selection design, you canpost your building plans, your, of
course, you have to post your permits.
I don't love technology in this business.
Um, when I say technology,I mean technology on site.
Like, I know people who like to haveeverything on a Google Drive and now your
contractor has to use Google Drive, orthey have everything on this new app that
you know has all the pictures, and nowyour contractor has to download the app.
(37:51):
Who here knows that if you ask acontractor to download an app and
communicate with you on the app?
They're gonna say, okay, great.
And they're never gonna do it, right?
So that's the only thing.
If it was a perfect world, I'd leveragetechnology, but leverage the fact that you
can post a lot of information on site thatcan answer questions without you there.
(38:11):
And also, I, I, with that allsaid it, a lot of this goes to
hiring the right contractors.
If you hire the right contractors.
They should be able tosolve problems without you.
And over time you're gonna buildthat relationship where they're gonna
know how to solve problems the waythat you want them to be solved.
It is a, a very difficult,nuanced conversation about
onsite project management.
(38:32):
I. Those are some of theoverarching ideas I have.
That's great info man.
And so one of the things you andI started talking about was the
state of the market right now.
So, uh, our contractors were justtrying to get us to go with them to
Vegas for like this big builder show.
'cause they were like, we need newmerchants, we need new vendors, we
need new materials because people aretacking on 25% on all their materials
now because of tariffs and this and that.
(38:53):
And so talk about like Q1, Q2.
2025. Where are we in themarket of construction and,
and building with materials?
And how are all these thingsgoing on around the world with the
economy, with politics affectingyour renovation budgets right now?
Man, this is, this is something that,before I even get into it, I'd like to do
(39:14):
the disclaimer that I'm not an economist.
I try my best.
Trust me, everything I do isaround this side of the business,
so I do my absolute best to, um.
Get a good grip on these things.
But what you'll notice, just likeany topic around the economy,
this is what you're gonna get.
You're gonna ask one expert,they're gonna say, the sky's fine.
You're gonna ask one expert.
(39:34):
They're gonna say, it's actuallythe best time to do construction.
You know, and then you're gonnaask somebody who's in the middle.
I tend to be, again, my disclaimers,I, I'm not an expert in this, but I
tend to be somewhere in the middle.
I don't think the sky's falling.
I don't think it's the best time.
You know?
Yes, prices are gonnaincrease a little bit.
Back a couple years ago, prices increasedtremendously, but what helped us was what
(39:58):
else was increasing at the same time?
Real estate prices, are we gonnahave that same kind of dual increase?
I don't know.
Uh, that'd be great if we do on ourend, but I talk to suppliers a lot.
This is something that in thegroup we're focusing on keeping
up with, and suppliers are tellingme the sky's not falling either.
There, you know, I'm getting 3%increase here, 5% increase there.
(40:21):
I think the biggest I've seen so far is6%, but nothing has really gone crazy.
I literally just put an order fortrusses, very, very difficult build.
It came back exactly what Ithought it was gonna come back on.
Nothing has really surprised me at now.
Long-term effect, is it goingto continue to be 5% every six
months or every four months?
(40:42):
I don't know.
That would be a problem.
I think a lot of this also verges onunfortunately, the side of politics,
which you'll never see me get into.
But, um, how permanent are these, right?
How much are these negotiating moves?
Um, how long are they gonna last?
Because you gotta look at thistoo, is it a short term thing?
(41:03):
If the purpose is really, ifit's really to bring industry to
America, you gotta think, let'stalk about lumber for example.
30% of our lumber comes from Canada.
Let me ask you a question.
Does that number surprise you?
30% comes from Canada, you, is that aboutnormal or did you know that already?
No, I didn't.
That actually surprises me.
I didn't know that.
(41:24):
It's pretty low, in my opinion.
What I would say is, well, let's putit this way, it's low compared to how
much people are freaking out about it.
If all we have to do is bring a certainamount of industry back to America to kind
of make up for that 30%, I don't know.
You know, these are all thingsagain, I'm not expert in, but
again, I'm kind of in the middle.
I don't think the sky's falling.
(41:44):
I think we'll see incremental increases.
I think, um, it's notgonna be a permanent thing.
I also hate to say that.
I'm affected by the 2021increase where literally a
lumber package today would cost.
So I'm building almost the exact samehouse right now that I built in 2021.
(42:05):
My lumber package today is $18,000with trusses, $24,000 in 2021.
That whole thing together,trusses and lumbers.
$58,000. We still built.
We still made profit.
It kind of sucked just for the lumberpart, you know, everything kind of went
up, windows went up, vinyl went up, right?
(42:27):
Incrementally.
Lumber was really the big issue.
Windows kind of suckedtoo, but we made money.
We got through that, and it wasn't awful.
Right?
And I don't see our inflationbeing anything like that.
I could be wrong.
You guys can come back and be like,Brandon, you had nothing in a year when
we're buying lumber for $60,000 again.
But it's really hard for meto see getting back to that.
(42:48):
So I think also I'm coming at itfrom that perspective, and maybe
that's not a fair perspective.
I. But it's hard for me tosee something similar to that.
No, man, that's great.
And you know, all you can dois make an educated guess.
Nobody has a crystal ball,nobody knows what's gonna happen.
There's all these things in there.
So I think that that's, uh,that, that's fantastic, man.
I really, really like that.
And can I make one other point about that?
Yeah, of course.
And that's, I got a learninglesson around that time, 2020 when
(43:11):
everybody shut down with Covid.
We stopped buying, we were stillbuilding, so that's why we were
still in the middle of projects,but we kind of stopped buying.
We heard that the sky was falling and webelieved people that the sky was falling.
And we kind of stopped buying.
What happened in 2021?
2022, real estate pricesshot up through the roof.
At least in my market.
And in most markets, people could buya house in March, sell it in July,
(43:36):
make 30,000, and never touch the house.
That's how crazy ourmarket was at the time.
So maybe part of me is also tryingto make sure people don't get scared
away from this industry, becausethat was one of the biggest mistakes
of my life in my business was.
Stopping buying during that time becausethat was where the opportunity was too.
So part of me might also be makingsure I don't scare people away.
(43:59):
It's not because I want more rehabbersand builders in the industry.
I do want that, but it's becauseI don't want you to miss out on
potentially another opportunities.
You never know.
I think that's awesome man.
And speaking of opportunities,I feel like I am missing one.
'cause you're coming out talkingabout new construction, man.
And I have been somebody who sh away.
From new construction because I feellike right now I, I don't know what's
(44:22):
happening with the market and to me, likea 6, 7, 8, 9 month project seems risky.
'cause I, I don't knowwhere it's gonna go.
But talk to me about how you'relimiting your risk in new construction
and why you're actually very bullishon new construction and not just kind
getting some quick rehabs in and out.
So everything is market specific, right?
If I was in Florida right now.
(44:43):
I wanna be building new construction.
Sorry.
I love Florida.
Um, I think we all love Florida, buttheir mark is having some problems.
They don't have the inventory.
Situation and the demand situationthat we have here in Virginia.
In Virginia, we stillhave a supply shortage.
And across America, let's just behonest, we have a supply shortage
that is not going away anytimein the perceivable future, right?
(45:06):
Um, it, it's gonna be hard for us tokeep up with the supply, with the demand.
Now, demand might be doing thisover time with interest rates,
with economic perspective.
Everything can scare peopleaway from buying, right?
But.
Demand just kind of does this overthe time, and maybe it even does
this, but if you look at that chart,supply versus demand, I always
(45:28):
like going back to basic economics.
We cannot keep up with this supplyproblem with the demand of supply.
With the need that, right.
It's different than demand.
It's a housing need.
The way they put it.
So I'm bullish on new construction.
'cause in my opinion, if you bring newhouses to the market, especially in my
market, you're always in a good position.
(45:49):
So far in my time in realestate, spent eight years.
I started in 2016.
I. Um, is that eight years, nine years?
Geez, in my time, thathas never really changed.
Bringing new houses to the markethas always been beneficial.
Maybe it sits for a little bit ifdemand dips, maybe it sits for a little
bit if interest rates raise right.
(46:12):
But at the end of the day, we alwaysstill sell, make profit, and end
up with very happy homeowners.
Very happy renters.
If you look at all the benefits ofnew construction versus rehabbing,
the only negative is the timeline,like you just said, right?
The positives are better asset, right?
I learned this from Daniel.
Less turnover because it's a better asset.
(46:34):
Better tenants because it's abetter asset, easier appraisals
because it's a better asset.
The business in general is scalable,so you can kind of separate yourself
from the day-to-day management.
We were talking earlier aboutonsite during project management.
You have half of theamount of responsibilities.
As a rehab when you're talkingabout new construction, right?
(46:56):
So there's so many thingsthat attract me to it.
Those are just a few of them.
For me, in this market,it's always profitable.
There's always a supply issue.
They sell a lot better.
We can, most of the time list houses forthe same price as rehabs make more money
and sell it so much faster than rehabs.
I'm just kind of rambling onall the different positives
(47:17):
I find with new construction.
But I'm incredibly bullishon new construction.
Again, it's market specific though.
Are you focusing more on teardowns or you're buying vacant lots?
Both.
Both?
Okay.
Tear downs.
If we do tear downs, it needsto be a subdivision project.
You know, it needs to be somethingwhere we can split up the lot,
two ways, three ways, fourways, and build multiple houses.
(47:39):
That's usually the only way thenumbers make sense in our market.
Um, but I love a infill, vacant land.
I love it.
It's, uh, easy.
I can permit on day one, I can justmove right into the project and
we can get those in and out forsix months from purchase to sale,
typically, if it's an infill lot.
So, um, not much different than evenlike a full gut renovation, you know?
(48:01):
Yeah.
Not much different.
That's awesome, man.
So obviously you being the peanutbutter and jelly between the
bread, we've touched on so manydifferent things, but we actually
haven't even scratched the surface.
You talked about templates.
We could go so much deeper intohow to put those together, how to
budget different markets, workingwith contractors, permit cities.
So many things we didn't evenget to touch on, which is why.
You provide additional informationwith the Rehabbers playbook.
(48:23):
So for people sitting here going,man, it sounds like it's really
important to understand how toproperly rehab this start to finish
and all the things in between.
How do you now help investorsmake sure that they don't
lose that money in the middle?
Sure.
Yeah.
You can always come join the Playbook.
The Rehabbers Playbook.
We call it the playbook.
You can go to the rehabbers playbook.com.
That's where you're gonna find it.
I'll scroll down a here, click join now.
(48:45):
And it is the cheapest and it'salmost embarrassingly cheap.
$147 right now, going up very soon.
So people see this soon, youknow, maybe by the, or see this
later, it might go up by then.
But $147 for six months of access.
And uh, the reason that is, is 'causelike I said, it started with a book.
(49:05):
And we never really increase theprice once we added all these pieces.
But now that we're trying to make thisa more center part, we're increasing not
only our value, but also uh, our price.
So if you can join on time,147, if not, we still have a
commitment to keeping it cheap.
And I'm not here just talking about money.
It is a network.
(49:26):
It is education.
We have people who are buildingdozens of houses a year.
We have people who are on on theirfirst flip, and one of the things
that I have so much pride of withthat group is I've seen people who've
never flipped a house before, nowflipping multiple houses a year.
I've seen people who have thispassion to get into new construction
but don't know how to start.
(49:48):
They're now doing new construction houses.
Everybody in the group's active.
Everybody wants to help.
It is just a veryfriendly, supportive group.
So if you wanna join, that's how to join.
If you wanna just know more aboutme, learn, reach out, have a YouTube
channel under the Rehabs playbook.
Um, you can find me onFacebook, Brandon Lindsay.
You can find the rehabs playbookon Facebook, and that's really
(50:10):
the only places you can find me.
We're kind of a undercover thing rightnow, but soon we'll have to take this
to the masses, you know, we'll see.
Well, I think that there's hugevalue in what you're doing, man.
I thought that this interviewhad amazing content on it.
I thought you did a great job.
Of giving a lot of direction and a lot ofdetails on questions and I didn't think
that there was a minute of fluffing man.
So I really appreciate you comingon and for anybody listening all
(50:32):
the ways to connect with you andconnect with the Rehabbers Playbook,
we'll be in the show notes and we'llhave live links for all that stuff.
And you, sir, are somebody whobrings your A game to everything
you do in life, in business.
And of course this interviewhas been no different.
You definitely brought your Agame to the EA Game podcast today.
Any final thoughts let you goabout your beautiful sunny day
and your springtime in Virginia?
(50:53):
The one thing I wanna say is, Nick,I gotta tell you, man, for the past
three years, ever since I started theplaybook, I do some speaking events.
I've done podcast interviews.
I'm not lying to you,not blowing any smoke.
You've asked me some of the most.
Interesting and importantquestions I've got in a long time.
I've really had to think.
I apologize if I rambled or if I justkept talking at any point, but you
(51:15):
really, really gave me great questions.
So I have to, uh, commend you on that.
And again, thank youso much for having me.
It's always great to havethese conversations, you know,
whether a thousand people seeit, whether it's just with us.
This is my favorite thingto do, this business.
I love it.
It's a passion of mine.
So I appreciate you very much, dude.
I didn't think you ramble for a second.
I thought you crushed itand you were welcome on it.
Anytime sir. I look forwardto seeing you, uh, next week.
(51:38):
Yeah, man.
See you.
See you very soon.
Absolutely.
Awesome man.
Brandon Lindsay, ladies andgentlemen, the rehabbers Playbook.
Have a fantastic day,sir. Thank you very much.
You too.
Take care everybody.
See you next.
It feel like.