Why It Is Never Too Late To Reinvent Your Life | Jason Yang

Join Nick Lamagna on The A Game Podcast with our guest Jason Yang, aka "The Criminal Defense Butcher" a former NYC criminal defense attorney, turned butcher and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu black belt!  Jason is an instructor at Renzo Gracie Jiu Jitsu HQ in Midtown Manhattan and has an incredible and inspiring story of successfully reinventing himself multiple times in life.  He is an athlete, entrepreneur, and many of many talents who studied pre-med before changing his focus to law school. He played soccer, wrestled and even did some rowing before landing on his passion of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

He started his Jiu Jitsu journey with his first instructor Matt Serra at Columbia College and then transitioned into teaching there for almost 20 years while training at Renzo's famous blue basement in midtown.  As a black belt with a white belt mentality he is constantly learning and reinventing himself showing courage and inspiration to change.  Many people in life feel stuck in their careers or choices or even identity and Jason shows us that it is never too late to shift your life and focus on the things that bring you happiness, keep you curious and allow you to constantly evolve and mature as a person.  You can find him shaping minds and talents of all shapes, sizes and ranks on the mats at Renzo Gracie's doing group and private lessons throughout the week!  You will not regret following this journey from a very intelligent and well spoken guest!

Topics for this episode include:

✅ The key to learning new things in life and business

✅ What drives big life and career decisions?

✅ The principle that will give you the best chance of success

✅ How to spot the right fit in business and life

✅ Achieving success through curiosity and critical thinking + More

See the show notes to connect with all things Jason!

 

Connect with Jason:

Jason Yang on Instagram

Jason Yang on Facebook

Jason Yang on TikTok

 

Connect with Renzo Gracie Academy NYC:

renzogracieacademy.com

Renzo Gracie Academy On Facebook

Renzo Gracie Academy on Instragram

Renzo Gracie Academy on TikTok

 

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Connect with Nick Lamagna

www.nicknicknick.com

Episode Transcript

(00:13):
Welcome to the A Gamepodcast with Nick Lamonia.
Digging into the minds and experiences ofsome of today's brightest entrepreneurs
in real estate and business, alongwith Hollywood Stars, UFC fighters
and your favorite rock bands.
People that have figured outhow to overcome obstacles,
take chances, live boldly.
And no matter what they do,they always bring their A game.

(00:48):
Alright, welcome back to the AGame podcast where we show ordinary
people every day that they canachieve extraordinary things.
Just these 350 plus episodes we have showpeople who have reached the highest level
in life, in business, in finance, infighting, in juujitsu, in real estate, in
business, you name it, they have excelled.
And you can just go back to thesepast episodes and find enough people

(01:09):
with whatever it is you want to begreat at, to show you what not to do
through the mistakes they've made, orshow you the shortcuts to safety and
success so you can copy them as well.
If that is not enough, we have anotherfantastic guest on today to show you
how to achieve your best in life.
And his name is Jason Yang, who is aHenzel Gracie Black Belt who started under
Matt, the Tara, Sarah, just like myself.

(01:30):
And Al has been going for 25 years, butmore importantly, he is such a great
addition to the A Game podcast becausefor any of the entrepreneurs listening,
we have to pivot in life in business.
Quite often marketschange, strategies change.
Some of you that got into real estatedid it because you were forced to change
for medical things, for life issues.
Maybe you got laid off medical,but who knows what it is.

(01:51):
But we all find times that wehave to reinvent ourselves.
We have to change or we have to pivot.
And sometimes you put so much timeinto something that it's hard to do,
or you're scared of starting over,or you've been so good at something
that you don't want to go back tohaving to be bad at something again.
Or maybe you just are even to thepoint where it's just scary because
your identity is wrapped up towhat you've been doing for so long.

(02:13):
And what's amazing about Jason is hewas a criminal defense attorney in New
York City that became very successfulfor 10 years and just literally
scrapped it and decided I wanted to dosomething else and became a butcher.
Totally, completely different.
Started becoming a butcher and gotreally good at that for 10 years,
and then just decided recently,I don't wanna do that anymore.
And now he's full-time teachingjiujitsu at Henzel Gracie Academy

(02:34):
and digging deep into that.
And in 10 years, who knowswhat he'll do after that.
But I think we talk about alot of really great things.
Obviously we do touch on Juujitsu, butfor anybody listening, you don't have
to do Jiujitsu or even like Jiujitsu orfighting to get a lot out of this podcast.
Anybody who's a business owner, anentrepreneur, or just looking for
something more out of a life thatyou're not happy with where you are,
or you're looking to maybe pick onsome new stuff and you're scared or

(02:56):
you're nervous about that change.
Change is always scary.
Change is always nervous.
So this is a great opportunityto listen to Jason drop some heat
about some things that he's learnedor told himself along the way.
About being surrounded by the rightpeople, some of the mental choices
he makes, some of the decision treeshe makes to figure out how to always
excel as a black belt, but nevergive up that white band mentality.
And always challenge yourselfand find the highest level of

(03:19):
success you can in anything you do.
And I love this episode andI thought it was fantastic.
He's got great words.
He's a great human and he gave me somefantastic tips at Henzel Gracie Academy,
so I definitely high just check in theso notes and linking up with everything
you can with Jason Henzel Gracie, andeverybody will take a lot away from
this amazing episode the way you get.
I. To keep listening to these amazingguests come on the A Game podcast.

(03:41):
It's just to please subscribe.
That is the only fee.
So I ask you, please go to anywhereyou get your podcast and find
the A Game podcast, real EstateInvesting for Entrepreneurs, and
please take a second and subscribe.
If you can't find it, just go tonick nick.com/links, L-I-N-K-S,
and you will see all the waysto connect with this show.
Also, you can connectwith us on social media.
The way that Jason Yang knows that yougot some great value from his interview is

(04:04):
that you interact with us on social media.
When I release the comment,so please give it a share.
Give it a like, give it a thumbs up.
Tag a friend.
If you're not following us on all thesocial platforms, go to nickname.com/links
and find us and interact with us.
And I will do the same right back to you.
That algorithm goes a long way orreally ask you, you're already playing
around on social media all day.
Anyway, take a second and please interactwith my posts from our amazing guests.

(04:26):
And the big thing here is Iwant to do deals together.
I want to make money together.
If you have some investment propertiesyou would like to sell me, or if you have
some investment properties you would liketo buy from me, or if you're not even
sure, you just want to figure out how canwe work together or make some money and
partner up on some deals, all you haveto do is write the words real estate on
my social media or just shoot me a textthat says real estate to 5 1 6 5 4 0.

(04:52):
5, 7, 3, 3. Just send the wordsreal estate to my social media
or to 5 1 6 5 4 0 5 7 3 3.
If you have shot me a text and I didn'trespond, please just do it again.
I promise you, I will respond to you.
So thank you so much forlistening to this podcast.
Thank you so much for Jason Yang,for being a quality human being
and a fantastic guest and teacher.
Go check him out at Henzel.
Gracie's, go get some fantastic meat.

(05:12):
Go challenge yourselfand reinvent your life.
A game podcast.
Have a fantastic day.
Alright, my guest today is anentrepreneur, teacher, athlete, and
man of many talents fighting out ofNew York City by way of Baltimore, who
stuttered pre-med at Columbia beforechanging the focus to law school.
Always being open to trying new things.
He was an athlete who participatedin many sports, including soccer,

(05:33):
wrestling, and even rowing.
Before landing on his 25 yearsuccessful career in Brazilian
jiujitsu, he started jiujitsu with hisfirst instructor exactly like mine.
He.
Matt Vierra and he started learningfrom Matt at Columbia College, and
then he actually transitioned intobeing the instructor there for
almost 20 years while teaching there.
He transitioned into training at the worldfamous Henzel Gracie Academy in Manhattan.

(05:56):
He's a black belt and manythings who also has a white belt.
Mental taly, constantly finding successin reinventing himself over the years
from a criminal defense attorney tofighting state and federal crimes for
10 years, then becoming a butcher foranother 10 before finding his current
focus as a full-time Jiujitsu instructorat Henzel Gracie Academy in New York City.
Shaping young minds and talents of allshapes and sizes and ranks, including

(06:16):
myself, who took a phenomenal privatelesson with him a few months back.
Please welcome to the A Game podcast,one of the oh Jesus Henzel Gracie squad
In early Jujitsu days, the Criminaldefense Butcher himself, Jedi, Jason
Yang, thank you for having me on Nick.
Dude, thanks for coming on.
Do you right away I was like,this is a great guy to have on.
I just talk to, I, I watched your socialmedia, I watched the Way You teach.

(06:39):
I watched the way you interactand with your background of
doing so many different things.
Again, we were just talking aboutmy buddy Brad and shout out to Ed
Sel for a linking me up with you.
But the second we heard you explainingthings at the same time, we were both
like, that guy's extremely intelligent.
Like you could just tellwhen you hear somebody talk.
So I loved Juujitsu because I rememberwhen I first started and we were
down and we were watching like theUltimate Fighter one and Kenny Florian

(07:00):
came on and a bunch of guys that youwould not have thought were dangerous
guys came over and they were like.
That's the beautiful thing about Jiujitsuis you could take a guy that everybody
thinks is a nerd and make him a killer.
And I feel like the misconceptionof like a tough guy in the past was
the big guy with the muscles who wasdumb and just like a caveman type.
And now it's come so far that there'slike intellect and there's, people

(07:22):
are artists and it's all things.
So I feel like you represent the modernage tough guy, that you can be smart
and you can do all these things andyou can still kick somebody's butt.
So talk a little bit about yourjourney of who you are, where you
came from, and how you became thelegend of Jason Jdi Yang today.
Oh, thank you for the kind words.
Um, so I started BrazilianJiujitsu the second semester
of my senior year at college.
One of my friends, we saw a posterin one of the dorms and he said,

(07:45):
Hey, that looks interesting.
And we'd seen some of the early UFCsthen we decided to check it out.
So we went down to the Columbiawrestling room and lo and
behold, it was Matt, Sarah.
And I had heard of him, to some extent,but didn't really know him well, but
that class completely blew my mind.
I'd wrestled when I was younger, hatedwrestling, even though I had to do it
because we had to play sports in school.

(08:05):
And I remember the exact classthat he taught, and it was headlock
escapes, it was three differentheadlock escapes and it was great.
Like a headlock escape into the arm barheadlock escape into taking the back,
and then headlock escape, and then theperson turn up and then afterwards we
got to do live training right away.
It was the most humbling experiencewhen it was coming to just see the
people that were smaller than you,people who were just able to handle

(08:27):
you with no problem at all doing thingsthat you were just like, I don't even
know what they're doing to my body.
Like, I don't even knowwhy I'm falling over.
I don't know why I'mgetting caught in things.
Um, but.
I think it was Matt's energy andattitude when it came to encouraging us.
Even though it was our first day, thatbrought me back right away and I could
see there's something special here.
There was something great about itbecause it was so foreign to me,

(08:51):
even though I'd wrestled before, andjust to see that there was so much
technique underlying everything, andI think that's been something that's
really been helpful in my journey.
This idea that the technique isso important and refining the
technique, practicing the technique.
And if you can do that really well.
You can really, even the odds whenit comes to size, speed, strength,

(09:11):
using technique, leverage, and allthe things that we always talk about.
That's awesome, man.
And I agree a thousand percent.
There's a million different topicswe can jump on from there, but I
feel like Matt always took a likingto a guy like you and a guy like me.
'cause he calls us part ofthe five, six and Under club.
Yes.
Yeah, he's was like, I remembermy buddy shout out to Paul Harris
and he's remaining rest in peace,but big guy, big black belt.

(09:31):
I don't know if you know him fromfrom Zos, but he tried to jump
on a private once and Matt waslike five, six and under only.
No, no big guys.
No big guys.
Yeah.
You can't show the tricks to the big guys.
Like, you're doing adisservice to everybody.
Yeah.
So you talked about the energy andI think that's like a huge thing.
So I actually didn't start at Matt Sarahs,I went to another academy for a month.
Whole kind of mess there.
And then I remember all of a sudden Ifelt like it wasn't the right fit for

(09:53):
me anymore for a number of reasons.
And I was kinda like what do I do?
And initially people were tellingme, go down to Matt Sarah's.
And when I started telling people I thinkI'm gonna go trade at se Jiujitsu, they
were like, you don't want to go there.
They just hurt people there.
Matt's never even thereand like all these things.
And I was like, all right, I'lljust go find out for myself.
And I went down there and I feellike the second you went in there,

(10:14):
you just know if you're in theright place with the right people.
And I feel like sometimes that's whereI'm very surprised when I talk to
people and like, you know what, Nick?
I took your advice.
I tried Juujitsu.
I went in there, nobody even talked to me.
The instructor barely acknowledged me.
And then I went on the mat andsome guy beat me up and I'm like.
Man, you are in the wrong spot.
And I feel like when you find the rightpeople, and I've traveled all over
the country now and I feel like weare very blessed to come up under guys

(10:37):
like Henzel Gracie and Matt, Sarah.
'cause I know a lot of the thingsthat, the way Matt teaches and the way
Matt treats people he got from Henzel.
But talk about how important it is withanything you do, whether it's Juujitsu
business, being a butcher, or findingyour friends, of finding the right
fit and the right vibe and the rightpeople for you to be around to excel.
Yeah, I think that's really important.
And one thing I always tellpeople is that at this point in

(10:59):
our life, we're adults, right?
We've been around, we've metpeople, we've been in different
encounters, we've had different jobs.
It should be pretty easy for you towalk into any environment, whether
you're gonna do business with someone,whether you're gonna shop at a store,
whether you're gonna pay someone alot of money to do some work for you,
whether they're on the level or not.
Um, and I think that oftentimes peopledon't do their due diligence when it

(11:21):
comes to bigger deals or things like that.
But in general, we're smart people, right?
If you meet some people who just,something doesn't seem right.
It probably isn't right.
If you walk into a school and theenvironment isn't right, it's not right.
There's all these cues you can look at.
If you look at an instructor and they'reon their cell phone all the time, or
it just seems they don't really careabout the students, or you hear them

(11:41):
say a bad word about somebody, youjust know that's not the right person.
So I think that carriesover into life as well.
I see so many people getting into baddeals or bad relationships because they
just don't trust their instincts thatthey've honed as adults to get this far.
And if it's a bigger deal, you mighthave to do some more due diligence.
But people are lazy I think when itcomes to things like that, that they

(12:02):
end up running into bigger problemsdown the road because they just didn't,
think for a moment and be like, wait aminute, there's something not right here.
I think that's extremely insightfulbecause people, I just lived this,
we, I was teaching a class and therewas somebody in the class that was
going around spreading negativityand like, I know behind the scenes
what goes on and I'm like, thatperson doesn't have any success.

(12:24):
And they're pushing this negativity onpeople and people are listening to them.
And I'm like, when you talk about comingin as an adult and people are all like
I'm a grownup, I'm this, I'm that.
I make my own decisions.
It's like, yeah, but then you listento somebody that says something that
you have no background on and yourinstincts and your intuitions are you.
And you rather listen to a strangerwho can plant that seed of doubt

(12:44):
when the 99% of what you're madeof is telling you that's wrong.
People will still listen to somethingthey heard on the internet or something
that they heard from somebody thathas no idea what they're talking about
and be like, do like going off topichere, but doctors are something today
that I think is an amazing thing.
Whereas my parents are getting olderand I'm listening to the stuff that
some of these doctors are sayingor the prescriptions that they do.
I'm like, it is unbelievable thetrust people have with things.

(13:07):
Like there's all this responsibilitynow with information and I feel like
people are very quick to give outbad information very confidently
and people don't question it.
And I think that's where I find youvery fascinating is when I was younger
it was probably something that.
My parents hated about me, andmy teachers hated about me.
That I was always like, why?
Why does that work like that?
Why do you do that?
And part of it was being obnoxious,but part of it was being curious.

(13:28):
And I feel like that constant questioningand trying to actually learn why
things work a certain way so I canform my own opinions have done me
really well later in life, althoughthey really bit me in the butt earlier.
But I feel like you're the same way.
I can see that your brainlatches onto things and you're
trying to figure 'em out.
And so where did that come from,like that part of your brain?
Have you always been inquisitive?
Have you always dived in, haveyou always been curious and asked

(13:49):
questions in life or did that sortof come as you tried to other things
as you went along your journey?
I think I'm more of a person who,studies many different things.
And then I think I take like the basicfundamental studying at face value.
And then after that I startasking some questions because
sometimes you have people who.
Immediately are skeptical of everything.
But I felt like you haveto do all the basics.

(14:10):
So I was lucky in school they, it was afull like liberal arts education going
all the way through grade school andthen later on in college where you had
to study every topic, whether it wasthe classics, whether it was foreign
languages, art, music, history, youhad to do every single thing each year.
It's not like you could justchoose something you wanted to do.
I think that gave me a broadbase in just the basic knowledge

(14:31):
that people should know.
And then beyond that, you canstart doing some critical thinking.
I think a lot of what you learnin school isn't to learn facts.
It's to learn how to think.
And, one big thing that I. From ourteachers that we've had, whether it
was, Matt, Sarah, John Danaher, orHenzel, is that they didn't teach you
moves necessarily, which they did.
They taught you techniques, they taughtyou, things how to move your body,

(14:51):
things that are gonna help you, but theytaught you how to think about things.
And I think that carries over into life alot too, where it's like you're presented
with certain facts, you're presentedwith a situation, a crisis, a problem.
But if you just apply a little bitof critical thinking, whether it's
introspection on yourself, looking atthe entire situation, oftentimes you
can navigate very difficult situationswithout getting emotional, and juujitsu,

(15:13):
if you're pinned under somebody, it sucks.
You're suffocating.
It's terrible.
But, having that mindset put into it justto be patient, think it through, take
your time I think is really important.
When it comes to, you don'twanna rush something in Jiujitsu.
It's usually walking into danger.
We're using too much energy and youdon't wanna rush into things in life.
I think people make a lot of snapdecisions sometimes when they get
emotional or they have an immediatereaction instead of sitting down

(15:36):
and taking the time to thinkto the best of their ability.
And if you, at a certain point, youget to a dead end, you'd be like, Hey,
I've thought through all the scenarios,I've thought through everything.
Um, ask a friend, ask a trusted colleague,someone you know, to talk about.
A lot of it came from law for me, Ithink too just because as a criminal
offense attorney, it was our job tolook through all the possible scenarios
of what could occur in litigation.

(15:57):
So if you have a case, you have certainlimited amount of information, but
you have to anticipate what's gonnahappen, what the prosecution's gonna
do, what may happen with a witness.
So it's almost like you have to playout every possible scenario in a
flow chart or like a branching trainchain, like branches on a tree, which
I think applies to Jiujitsu too.
It's like you gotta playthrough the scenario.
It's like, I'm in this position.

(16:17):
What are the possible thingsthat can happen to me?
If I do this, that limits my partner'sthings and we can eventually funnel
to the point where they only have acouple of choices, which is, something
that we've been taught over the years.
But I think just taking the time to thinksometimes, think about your situation,
the problems you're having and not rushinginto, trying to fix everything right away.

(16:37):
I love that, man.
The process elimination and thepatients are definitely two things.
I want to go off on, on tangent sound,but I'm interested in your brain.
I find you fascinating.
So you come off as an analytical personand I think sometimes when people,
like I deal with this in real estate,where people go what do I do here?
And I'm like, I don't know,like you, what about this house?
What are you gonna do with it?
What's I like?
There's a hundred other things thatgo into each unique thing that you

(17:00):
want a direct answer of when thishappens, what do I do every time?
And I'm like, there's no answer like that.
And like, same thing with Juujitsu.
I remember like, I was talkingto Longo and I was like, Longo,
I wanna do a pride with you.
He was like, why?
I was like, I wanna be ableto box like Ally a Quinta.
He goes, oh, no problem.
Go have 45 fights.
And go train for the next 50 andthen come back and we'll do a pro.
Yeah.
I grant Matt and I'll belike, what do I do here?

(17:22):
He'd be like, dude, if you'rethere, you messed up so long ago.
Like there's a hundredthings we have to get.
You don't just get, and whatif you use the left side?
What if you use right side?
So I think sometimes people thatexpect when I do this happens when
they don't have something that alwaysis, that there's a hundred other
questions instead of an answer.
They get frustrated and they quitand their brains don't like that.
And I feel like as an analyticalperson, usually they need to know

(17:43):
A equals B, but with criminaldefense and juujitsu it doesn't.
So I feel like your brain'salmost a hybrid of that.
So I guess a two part question where whenyou are somebody who's always looking
for solutions and connections and athing like law or a thing like jujitsu.
Where there's thousands of them.
How do you keep it all in your headand how do you ne get overwhelmed?

(18:04):
Because even it's like, we did the halfguard butterfly stuff and you do that and
then that shows me a hundred other thingsand now I'm like now I'm under the guy.
Let me work from here.
So how do you get good at anythingand not get distracted with all the
possible other avenues and variablesand then basically lose your focus?
For me, let's say we takethe, we can go between law and
then go and jiujitsu as well.

(18:25):
There you, as you start understandingthings better, you realize there's
certain fundamental things that arethere that, the fundamentals can always
be broken too, but there are someunderlying principles you have to follow.
So oftentimes I'll get legal questionsor in the past I'll get legal questions
and let's just take the fundamentalidea of like, don't talk to the cops.
So pretty simple, right?

(18:45):
But I would say for the most partthere's very few scenarios where let's
say you're being investigated that youwould wanna just talk to the cops freely.
However, that's like the biggest mistakeeverybody makes talking to the cops.
So will not talking to the copsalways give you the best result?
No.
But I would say it gives you ahigher percentage of getting outta
the situation properly, or at leastnot making it worse for you down

(19:08):
the road if you don't do that.
So at that point, like you're saying,when there's all these variables in real
estate, where like, should I do this deal?
Should I do that?
What if this happens?
There's some fundamental things youcan say where if you do this thing,
it'll give you the best percentage ofsuccess, and then you keep following
on certain things that'll give youthe best percentage of success.
Like there's no one juujitsu movethat works all the time, but there's

(19:32):
probably a class of juujitsu movesfrom a certain situation will
give you the best success rate.
Doesn't mean your partner's not gonnadefeat you, there doesn't mean you
have to switch to something else.
But if you do that move, that wouldprobably give you the best shot.
Maybe it's 85%, maybe 75%.
Like I don't gamble myself, but if Iwas a casino and I had a game where
I had a 75% edge I play that game.

(19:54):
So I think at that point it comesdown to you can't give someone a
clear answer and you have to letthem know there isn't a clear answer.
Like a lot of times peopleare like, am I gonna jail?
Are the cops gonna come after me?
This, like, I don't know.
I don't know if they will.
I will give you the best advice inthis exact instance and tell you
that it's completely uncertain.
But if you do these steps, you'llprobably be in a better position than you
would be if you didn't do these things.

(20:16):
And if those other things come up,then we'll address them as they go,
but don't talk to the cops, but anyway.
And then that's when youknow things go south.
That makes sense.
So as we build on uncertainty and stuff,talk a little bit about, now you started
out as a criminal defense attorney,and obviously you've restructured your
life multiple times, but when you firststarted going down that path, I imagine

(20:37):
you didn't plan on, did you go in goinglike, I'm gonna give this 10 years and
then I'm gonna go do something else?
Or is that what you thought yourlife was gonna be at that time?
I really, I thought it was whatmy life's gonna be at the time.
One big factor for meis juujitsu of course.
So I, I stayed in the cityjust to be close to the academy
and be able to train here.
I had offers to go elsewhere to study.
I could have taken jobs outta the city,but, it, it sounds strange, but I think

(21:00):
I structured a lot of my life withbeing able to train jiujitsu with Enzos.
And I think a lot of people I've talkedto have done that as well a little bit.
And I don't know if that's crazy ornot, but I honestly thought that I would
be doing law for the rest of my life.
But I was also trainingsix days a week also.
So that was always like a huge factor.

(21:21):
And, looking back now, I think one ofthe things I realized now is that I
like law a lot and I still do like law,but I would never really be the best
just because there are people that likecompletely devote their lives to law
when it comes to reading, cases beforethey even come down, like, and really
studying and really going deep into it.

(21:42):
And I did it at a, a pretty highlevel, but it wasn't the same when
it came to how I felt about Juujitsu.
Just because it'd be like irritatingnot to be able to train because I had
to be in court later or something.
Or I found myself thinking aboutjiujitsu more than thinking about law.
And now looking back, Iwas like, you know what?
I probably really like law.
I probably could have done itfor the rest of my life, but I'll

(22:03):
never be like the best because.
I'm never willing to put everythingforward towards it because
it's not what I really love.
If you have been kicking yourself thatyou didn't start investing in real
estate sooner, whether you're a beginner,intermediate, or advanced, any way you're
looking to get it on a residential,commercial, land development, wholesaling,
fix and flips, whatever it is, let'sfind a way to get you involved in some
projects, get you some properties, whetheryou want to sell some properties to me,

(22:25):
whether you want to buy some propertiesfrom me, whether residential, fix and
flip, cash flow, multifamily, whateverit's you're looking for is figure out
a way to get you involved or find away for us to partner up on some deals.
Reach out to me on any ofmy social media channels.
If you go on www.nic.com/links, you willsee all the different ways to connect
with me and figure out how we canstart to work together, make it happen.

(22:46):
Everybody that invests inreal estate always just says
they wish they did it sooner.
Best time to start is today.
So what was it like being a criminaldefense attorney in New York City?
'cause I feel like thatshould be a reality show.
It sounds like so intense andwild and chaotic and exciting.
It's the best.
It's great.
It's New York City is one of the bestplaces to practice law for any field,

(23:08):
just because there's so many big cases,so many different things happening.
So much commerce goes throughhere and there's a lot of criminal
conduct that happens here as wellon the state and federal level.
So I definitely saw a lot of cool stuff.
I don't think I could have been anyother type of attorney, really just
because this is one where I was incourt all the time, you're on trial
you actually get to handle cases.

(23:28):
You get to see directresults of what you do.
You get to help people and youget to affect many people's
lives when it comes to this.
And it is like the cool stuff you getto interact with the FBI and the DA.
You get to, you work with prosecutorson certain things, collegially
and it's the more exciting thing.
I think It's like the law andorder stuff, like the stuff that I
think people find more interesting.
That's cool.

(23:48):
It's funny because a lot of these thingsyou don't, I. Like you would think the
attorney thing might be the boring thingand the FBI thing would be exciting.
And at one point I was trying to bea, a federal agent and the FBI was
basically looking for accountants.
They were like, yeah, you like the wayyou, like, you bust these guys isn't with
the murder stuff, you get 'em on the ta.
Like, so it's like, it's kind, it's funnythe way, like the perception of what
things are change, but for you now, I,the part of the reason that I was like

(24:13):
I gotta have this guy on is on top ofall the other reasons I respect you.
What you've done in life, Ithink is fascinating with the
reinvention multiple times.
Because, for people that listen to thispodcast, you get a lot of people that
are either I. Doing something that'sa traditional nine to five, and they
decide that they want something more.
And a lot of the times real estate issomething that, on the entrepreneur

(24:34):
side of it, I'm gonna work formyself, whether it's crypto or real
estate or whatever it might be.
I'm gonna open a jujitsu school,I'm going into business for myself.
And it's scary to go do something new.
Sometimes you make the choice, but alot of the times people are forced to
because they get laid off or they havemedical bills, and now they have to
find a way to supplement their income.
But your identity is so caught up inthat, even as an investor, oh, I used

(24:54):
to be a flip guy, now I gotta rent.
Now I gotta like, people have to change.
And I think not enough people willpivot even when they're forced to
pivot, let alone making a choice.
And you and my brother are two ofthe only people I know that made
like big life changes without beingforced to make those life changes.
You did it as a decision.
And I think people get so comfortablein things that are not making them

(25:15):
happy, that are not gonna get them wherethey want to be, but they're so scared
to say, I'm not gonna do that anymorebecause I put so much time into it.
And that's now who I've become.
That's who I am.
And you seem to have virtuallyno attachment to your
identity outside of jujitsu.
So talk about for people that are maybenot where they want to be or they're
on some sort of transitioning platformright now in their life and their

(25:36):
career, what was it like mentally?
What was the decision tree like?
Like what were you going throughwhen you had put 10 years into
being a criminal defense attorneyand now hit this crossroads?
You were like, I don't think I'm gonna dothis anymore and I'm gonna do something.
Completely different.
So I've actually, it's funny 'causemy brother actually was the first

(25:56):
person who did this in our family.
So he went to Stern BusinessSchool, but then he ended up
not going into the business.
He became like a production assistantand a second assistant director.
Worked on like, big movies, big TV shows.
Then saw some of his friendsand colleagues like having heart
attacks at like 50 years oldbecause it was so stressful.
And he ended up becoming a knife maker.
He did like an apprenticeshipwith a small shop in Brooklyn.

(26:17):
Now he's with a big hugecompany down in North Carolina.
And he actually made that changefirst, which was, super admirable.
And it was just super cool to seehim do that and succeed and doing
really well now, so for me, at thetime, I actually loved the job.
I didn't wanna leave the job necessarily.
My boss had talked to me about,maybe in a few years he was getting
older for me to take over the firm.

(26:38):
And the way I viewed it was to look atpeople that were 10 years older than me.
Instead of people that weresimilarly situated to me, a lot
of times we make these decisionsand we look at people around us.
But if you look at people 10 years older,you get a glimpse into the future about,
is that the life I want to have later?
And I realized that it wasn't,and it wasn't that they were

(27:00):
leading a bad lifestyle or isthere anything wrong with it.
It just wasn't what I wanted.
So I needed opportunityto start butchering.
There was like an apprenticeship and itwas really something fascinating to me.
So I was actually just gonna do itfor three months to come back to law.
Um, and my boss at the time I think,knew that I probably wouldn't come back.
Um, and I finished the apprenticeship.
I was lucky to get a joband I loved it right away.

(27:21):
And he was like, you gotta do this.
He's a big golfer.
So he was like, if you have askill and you don't keep practicing
it, you're gonna lose it.
And I think what you were saying aboutthe identity is important because when
you're an attorney, it comes with likea certain level of respect, or hate,
depending on what side you're on.
You get wedded to this ideathat's only who you are.

(27:42):
And then the same thing happened tome when I became a butcher and I did
whole animal butchery for 10 yearsand taught butchery and had a great
experience meeting lots of great people.
You have an idea, identity of thisas you're seen as the butcher.
Like a guy who knows what he'stalking about when it comes to meat.
I was able to do a lot of differentmedia when it came to that and it
was cool and meet great people.

(28:03):
And then if I give that up, likeam I not that person anymore?
And I think that so many peopleare so wedded that identity.
But when I really look at Lookback, it was more a continuation
of myself as a person.
Like many people said to me, all right,you spent this much time going to college,
going to law school, investing in this.
Aren't you just throwing it allaway by becoming a butcher and

(28:25):
then getting this far in butchery?
And then aren't you just kinda likethrowing away that other 10 years?
But looking back, I. All of the skillsthat I had back then led me to where I am
today and being able to do what I do now.
When I first started jiujitsu, I was alawyer at the time actually I started
juujitsu before I went to law school.

(28:46):
But a lot of the principles thatI learned from jitsu, I applied
to studying in law school and liketrying to be successful there.
And then when I was startedteaching Jiujitsu, I used all the
principles I learned from law whenit comes to how to explain things
properly, how to order things.
Sometimes you go to Jiujitsuclass, a little bit chaotic.
I took those things to Jiujitsu whenit came to me teaching Jiujitsu.

(29:09):
Then when I made the switch tobutchery, I took law and Juujitsu
and transferred into butchery.
Butchery is something that wasn'tnecessarily always systematized,
especially when it came to the teaching.
So I used some of thepublic speaking skills.
I had to be able to speak tobig groups to be able to teach.
I used all the stuff from Jiujitsuto learn butchery because it's
like Juujitsu is very technical.
You have to use leverage,you have to use your body.

(29:32):
I used those step-by-step and Iby butchery notes when I first
learned, resemble my juujitsu notes.
And then having taught jujitsu for so manyyears when I taught different butchers
of different sizes, heights, weights,like you could use those principles,
like you can't attack it from this side.
You're not big enough to, you'regonna have to come underneath here,
or you need leverage on this side,or you're left-handed, you're gonna
have to approach it from this side.

(29:52):
And that all helped me.
And I realized that everything I've doneup to this point in my life, regardless
of the career, have led me to where I am.
So none of it was a waste.
And, am I a practicing lawyer anymore?
No.
Do I butcher anymore?
Really?
I do stuff at home and I'm workingon some other projects now, but I
realized that those still are withme even if I am in another career.

(30:13):
That's awesome, man.
It reminds me of something yousaid to me where I was telling you
I've been training for a long time.
But I feel like I, I don't havethe awareness of the intentions
of why I'm doing things.
I just have a certain sensitivity fromjust training So long for so much.
And you were refreshing and youwere like, yeah, but without
the 20 years of training, youwouldn't have the sensitivity.
And you need that to havethe understanding and without

(30:34):
the understanding, likeso you were like at all.
Plays in together for like who you areand what you're doing at this point.
And I feel like that's awesome, man.
It's almost like chapters in yourstory instead of just a new chapter.
It's just a continuing book forwho you are and where you're going.
So it's an adventure.
I like that.
I think it's super cool.
And now, so the Butcher, that wasa complete change and obviously
there's a lot of stuff thatgoes into becoming an attorney.

(30:56):
What was the support around youlike from your friends and family
when you said, I'm not gonna do thisanymore and I'm gonna go do that?
Because, obviously fresh start, financialstuff, commitment, all, there's all kinds
of things that go in that I'm sure there'sno reassurances, there's no certainty.
So you're traveling back into theunknown at a later stage in your life.
Was there some friction there or didyou have a supportive circle around you?

(31:17):
The funny thing is, I, my wifewas like super supportive.
She did something similar too.
Oh cool.
She was American Express for many yearsdoing like luxury brand marketing and
then eventually she went into wine.
Oh.
Which she was love.
So she, left there and went to didlike the court of Somalia, like
Somalia exam, ended up doing that.
And then she worked in retail fora bit and then worked for like
distributor and then an importer.

(31:39):
Then did her like wsetdiploma, like, or wine study.
So that was like really, cool.
So she's always been supportive of me,of like, regardless of what decision I
made, I think the biggest fears were like,obviously, it's like a huge financial
hit to like redo these things, especiallyworking in, food service, which is like,
obviously not the best paying thing.
Um, and there's also like,am I gonna be good at it?

(32:00):
Like, what if I'm terrible at it?
What if I hate it?
Friends, and were definitely supportive.
My wife was very supportive.
The funniest thing is Iactually didn't tell my parents.
Huh?
I have Asian parents, butthey're like super liberal when
it comes to like, parenting.
I didn't tell thembecause I don't know why.
Maybe I think it was myselfjust not understanding enough.

(32:20):
But I remember it was like a Thanksgivingwhere my brother had like, made a
switch into knife making and for myparents, so like, what are you doing?
You went to a great school and thenyou had the career in movies and
now you're gonna be making knives.
And it was like a huge shock to them.
So I figured, I'm gonna piggyback on that.

(32:41):
And I'd already been bushing for threeyears, so this is like a huge gap.
Before, like, I'd even told them and theyand like unfortunately, my, my parents
got a call about one of their bestfriend's sons who'd been arrested at JFK
with something like silly, like he gotarrested at the airport, something silly.
And they're like, oh,my, my son's an attorney.
Like he'll handle it.
So I'm in Baltimore.

(33:01):
I like call, you know the courtsystem in New York, I speak to
people in the tombs and it turnsout it was something really silly.
So I gave them advice, over thephone to be like, all right,
this is what you gotta do.
Just show up.
You're not even needingan attorney for this.
I don't need to go backto New York for this case.
Ends up getting dismissed and I'm doingthis all like, the day after Thanksgiving.
And my parents were like,oh my God, that was great.

(33:21):
Like, see, my son's anattorney, he's awesome.
So I like didn't say anything.
Then a few years later, my wife tellsmy parents that she's doing this thing
and then that's when I had to jump on.
I was like, all right, at thispoint I can't be living like this.
I have to let my parents know thatI've made a switch to butchery.
And to my surprise, they didn'tsay anything about, oh my God, you
spent all this time gonna schoollike lawyer's a prestigious job.

(33:42):
You should have stepped stuck with it.
They were super supportive and they saida line to me that's really stuck with me.
They said that, for the most part,parents will always obstensibly say
they want their kids to be successful.
Because they want their kids to be ableto sustain themselves when they pass on,
but ultimately they want you to be happy.
And I cried.

(34:03):
I was like, oh my God.
Like my parents are actually proud of me.
And then it turned out when I wasa butcher, they were like, oh my
god, Jason gets the best meats.
Like every time I went back I'dbring all the stuff like, it's
like suitcases of stuff and theywould give it to all their friends.
They thought it was the best.
And I was like, I thought when I wasan attorney they would be more happy.
But they were happierwhen I was butchering.
Um, and then now it's funny becauseI'm doing Jiujitsu and they've actually

(34:24):
never ever seen Jiujitsu before.
They don't know what it is.
And I remember when I got my black belt,um, they were visiting and my wife was
like, oh, Jason got his black belt.
My dad's like, oh, that's cool.
And it's like put it down.
So right now I'm actually not quitesure they know exactly what I'm doing.
They know I have a job, they know I'mteaching of some sort, but I'm not really

(34:45):
sure if they know what Juujitsu is.
I think that it's been great from.
Friends where the second yousay, I'm gonna do this, they just
say right away, that's awesome.
They don't bring any concerns.
They're just always like, you know what?
I think you as a person will dogood at whatever you're gonna do.
And that's what I tell people now.
Like, I've given people a lot ofadvice about this and gone on, on talks

(35:05):
on this, about these career changeswhere you just give encouragement,
you're gonna do well, you're gonnabe fine, you're gonna figure it out.
And if this isn't the one thingyou're going to find something else.
Like, don't worry, like you then obviouslyeveryone's in different situations when
it comes to finances, when it comes tocommitments and families and partners.
But I think that's the biggest lesson Itook from it, that, people are rooting

(35:27):
for you when it comes to you trying tofind something that makes you happy.
I think that's incredible, man.
And it goes back to the, the support.
It's, it makes all the differencein the world, the friends, the
family, the parents, the spouse,like it, it all makes sense.
And you said something that remindedme when I was talking to Gary Toin
and he was talking about how, heused to drive hours into the city and
live on Mountain Dew and Beef jerkyand, it was like one of those things.

(35:49):
And I was like, you, thebeautiful thing about Jiujitsu
is every day you get humbled.
And he was like, sometimes he's like,at a certain point when you become Gary
Toner, the Gordon Ryan, you're not reallygetting humbled every day, every anymore.
And so I, I heard a lot about Gary,we'll start out in like horrible
positions just to keep keepinghimself working out of those things.
'cause he was like, the first timeI get in that horrible position,
I don't want to be in a fight.

(36:10):
I wanna been there a bunch of times.
But he was like, if I could goback, I am used to now, he's like,
when you're now eating steaks everyday, it's hard to go back to eat
beef jerky Mountain Dew every day.
Like, I don't know if Iwould still do that climb.
But then when he went into MMA, he waslike, now I was so good at jujitsu.
And I knew how hard that hillwas to climb to get where I am.
And now I realize as MMA, I'mstarting back at the bottom of the

(36:32):
hill and I'm gonna go more back up.
And most people that have hit a levelof success know how hard it was to find.
And they're not really prepared to dothat ever again and become a white belt.
And I feel like you keep hitting yourblack belt in all these different things
and you know that you're gonna get yourbutt kicked along the way and you know
it's gonna be hard and you're gonna haveto go through these and multiple times
now you keep climbing that hill so thatwhite belt mentality, 'cause you have

(36:55):
to have some sort of confidence and egoto hit the highest levels of the things
you're doing and to be so individualistic,but also to have no ego to say, I'm
gonna go back to being a beginnerat this and learning all over again.
I don't feel like mostpeople have both of those.
I think one of the biggest lessons Ilearned, and this is gonna sound so
silly as an example, is that even likewhen it comes to tackling a hard thing

(37:18):
or something that you just don't wantto do, the more you do it, it's like.
It actually isn't that hard aftera while, if that makes sense.
Yeah.
So I'm gonna use a dumb example.
So let's say like, if you, like, I wentinto butchery, so you go in through
like, it's a long day, you gotta do allthese things, you gotta clean everything.
And when I'm talking aboutcleaning, I'm not talking about
like, just like doing your dishes.
I'm talking about like big equipment.
You gotta get into lift heavy things.

(37:40):
Then you gotta like mopfloors and all these things.
And like I, hadn't had muchexperience mopping floors in
the past and it was rough.
Like, doing all this stuff, liftingall this heavy stuff, working a whole
day and then doing all this cleaning.
But then the more you do it, it's like,you know what, it's actually not so bad.
All these things that seem likeinsurmountable tasks, you just
have to just start doing it.
The first day is gonna be rough.
The next day is not so rough.

(38:01):
And after a while you're just like,oh yeah, I'm going to work doing these
things after that we gotta break downthis stuff and then now we're gonna
mop the floors and then you're done.
And I think that a lot of peopledon't overcome that first fear of
it's gonna really be uncomfortablewithout realizing that the more you're
in it, it's actually not that hard.
It's, so let's say you have to goon a 15 mile hike or something.
The first time you're like, oh my God, I'mmentally not even prepared to go one mile.

(38:24):
But then you end up doingit and it was tough.
Like I realized it was horrible.
But then when you start doing it more andmore, it becomes part of your routine.
You get a little bit better at it, youmake some efficiencies and it ends up
not being so bad because I think peoplebuild this thing up in their head that
something's gonna be so miserable or badthat it's actually not as bad as they
thought it was if they actually did it.
And a lot of different things are boring.

(38:44):
I understand that.
And certain things are tiresome, but whenyou do 'em over time, you realize that
you actually have the ability to do themand that you didn't die at the end of it.
And I think a lot of the things wherethe encouragement we got when we were
training, when we were miserable, notmiserable, when we were in bad spots
and we were tired and we got greatencouragement, like, Matt, Sarah, I
could hear him saying right now, it'slike, keep fighting till the end.

(39:06):
You're, whether it's in a matchand you're down on points in
your bottom, keep fighting.
Doesn't matter.
I don't care if you win thismatch or lose this match.
Keep fighting to the end.
Then when you get through, you'relike, oh, that wasn't so bad.
Or you're doing a bunch of rounds andyou're tired, it's like, nope, I don't
care if you're tired, you're justgonna defend cross side the whole time.
That's probably where you're gonna be.
So just defend, keep fighting to the end.
And then each time you do it longer,you realize, that wasn't so bad.

(39:26):
And at a certain point you'relike, man, I'm comfortable here.
This isn't terrible.
I love that dude.
And I think that's a extremely importantthat most people between the two ears
is the most dangerous neighborhood.
Like you build things up so much worse.
But I've always said one of thebest things that I've taken away
from boxing Juujitsu and MMA waslearning how to stay patient and
calm in chaos and look for a way out.

(39:46):
Whereas, you have thatpanic that you want to quit.
And I think that there's two sides tothis where finding a solution, because
on the times where you're like, youknow what, I'm uncomfortable, this
sucks, and the bell's ringing andyou're tired and you tap, like for weeks
after that, I'm like, why'd I do that?
Yeah, there was 13 seconds left.
And I did, and of course Mattwas looking at me the, yeah.
Like you're always like, ah.
I remember Matt saying, he was like, dude,if somebody ever pass my guard in front

(40:08):
of Henzel, I was pissed off for weeks.
Like until I went back.
And so I think one, having the peoplearound you that you respect enough that
will, there's that leadership aspectwhere sometimes people are like, do
this, or I'm gonna be mad at you, orI'm gonna kill you, or I'm gonna beat
you up, or you're gonna get fired.
And then there's a type of leadershiplike Henzel and Matt where it's like
you just don't want to disappoint them.
You don't wanna let them down.
So for you, you came up under likea magical time in Juujitsu with Sean

(40:33):
Williams and Matt Sarah and Johndha and Ricardo Mena, Henzel Gracie
and Gordon Ryan and all these guys.
So what was it like having these peoplearound that were your friends, that were
also your heroes that made this differencein your life to maybe keep things going
when you maybe didn't feel like you could?
Like how did that translate in?
Like do you think if you haddifferent people around you, you

(40:54):
would have as much fight in you forall the things that you're doing?
No I think that the biggest thingI took from them, and I think it
goes to what we were just saying,is that encouragement, it's.
They have some, I don't knowif it's a magical quality or
something, but they always saidthe right thing at the right time.
They could always tell if you weredown or if you needed some advice
or needed some help, or just even akind word like, that was a good job.

(41:16):
Or you could have done something here.
Like, I'd never heard a bad word fromany of them about like, oh, you sucked.
Or You were stupid, orYou were dumb there.
It was always like, that was great.
Or, come back tomorrow,you're gonna do better.
And I think having that systemthere where they really cared about
nurturing you was so important.
Just because I came in, as a youngkid, I. Training and you have all

(41:36):
these like heroes, idols who'vebeen training and so experienced.
It's like that mentorship ofthem taking you under their wing
and willing to share their time,knowledge, but willing to care for you.
That mentorship has meant a world to mewhere I really genuinely felt they cared.
A lot of times you go into otherbusinesses or things where you
meet people, where some of it'stransactional, some of the relationships

(41:57):
are, we're both gonna benefit from, abusiness deal or something like that.
Or one of it's like service based where,we have a client coming in and we're
doing a service for a certain fee,and this is the scope of the thing.
They were giving more than thatbecause they were giving a piece to
themselves where they were sharing asopposed to just like teaching, I think.
And I think that's like thebig subtle distinction when
it comes to teaching jujitsu.

(42:17):
You should be sharing your knowledge,not just teaching and preaching and going
out there and just talking because youwanna show how much I love that man.
And just so you know, if nobody's toldyou this, you are the exact same way.
Like the, ZOS is a little intimidating.
May maybe, I remember it from, Ididn't go there a ton, but going down
there in the John days, like JasonRa taking me down there and stuff.
Like, you walk in that basement andyou're this is like Henzel, Gracie's.

(42:38):
Like, there's like freakingGary to over there.
So I walked down there and I Edwasn't there yet, but I went down
and I was like, where do I go?
What do I, and dude, you just came outtanowhere and gave me like a big hug.
You were like, I'm Jason,I'm gonna see you tomorrow.
I'm excited for, I was like,made me feel so good, dude.
And then the second we came infor the private, it was like,
what, five 30 on like a snowy day.
That was like two degreesor something like that.
And you opened up for me and you werejust like, man, like don't even look

(42:59):
at the clock like I'm here to, andlike immediately just disengage it.
And I truly felt like this is not aguy who was like, you got 59 minutes.
What do you wanna know?
I felt like you were there.
To share your knowledgewith me and you didn't.
I think we were there for like twohours or something like that, man.
And you were giving me life adviceand juujitsu advice, and you were so
patient and calm with everything, man.
So you definitely are a reflection of allthe things that I think people gave you.

(43:22):
I definitely felt as being a good leader,a good teacher, and a good person.
Thank you.
Yeah.
And it's rewarding for me too.
A lot of times people when it comesto teaching, they don't realize like
how much you get from the students,like interacting with them, whether
you're chatting about their lifeor their families, but just sharing
this and them sharing with you issuch a great experience that I think
humans don't have as much anymore.

(43:43):
Like I don't think we reallyconnect with each other as much.
Obviously we have our friends, but whenit comes to connecting with people and
meeting new people, I think Jujitsu'slike a perfect way to connect and just
as rewarding for me to do a privatewith someone or teach a class than
I think it is for the students andwhatever experiences they may have.
That's awesome.
So I love now that we jump a little bitdeeper into the jujitsu side of stuff,

(44:04):
because I think somebody's been around 25years and you've seen it change so much.
I only know what I've seen and eventraining MMA and boxing, like I remember
when I first started, I. You would godown, you basically take a class, and then
the guy was like, come back next week.
And he just beat the crap out ofyou to see if you would come back.
And some of the sparring sessions andeven the rolls, dude, like the old Tuesday
night set like Levittown with Matt.

(44:25):
It was just like hardroll after hard roll.
And at the end of it, everybody wasjust like left it like it looks like
dead bodies all over the map forlike 30 minutes and there's steam
coming at everything and stuff.
But now I feel like the training'schanged a lot for the way people train.
And I've even found like, it'svery strange, like in the old
days if you walked in and likeJames Gabbard or Matt were there.

(44:46):
Oh yeah, I remember likeyou didn't mess around dude.
Like, it's kinda like we're here,we're doing their stuff and there
was always like nobody got hurtduring one of Matt's classes.
And then I go to some other placesand you're rolling with like a new
white belt and you're like the olderguy trying to keep the pace nice.
And then he jumps back and tries torip a heel hook and you're like, dude
that's not what we're doing here.
So I feel like we're at like aweird time where there, there's
some lost etiquette, but thenthere's also some smarter training.

(45:09):
So you've seen it on such a higher level.
Talk about how over the last 25 yearstraining Juujitsu and just the way
that schools and classes are runhave changed to where they are today.
Yeah.
I think it's like, like you said,it's like a little bit of both.
It's like there's the oldways that we came up under.
Then they've evolved now.
But in that evolution,unfortunately, we probably also

(45:30):
lost some of the etiquette as well.
Um, I think that everyone at this pointunderstands that if you have, it's
like a tough room where everyone justgoes balls to the wall, you go crazy,
you just train hard all the time.
You're not get, peopleare getting injured.
You're gonna have, it's gonnahard to bring in new students.
So as Juujitsu grows, you want tomake it accessible to more people.
And I think that changing that mindsetis helpful for that, from a business

(45:54):
standpoint or just from an accessibility,openness standpoint to be more welcoming.
But you also realize that it doesn'tactually help you get better.
Really what happens if you havepeople who just go hard all the time
is you get a bunch of tough people.
People who are really tough,they're hard to submit.
It might be hard to hold incertain positions, but they don't
actually get better at jujitsu.

(46:16):
They don't actually get better atbeing more efficient or get better
at submitting people or getting tobetter positions more efficiently.
And I think that we've realized that now.
Like it was great back then.
We didn't really know any better.
But now you can still run a classwhere people still have hard
training, but the focus isn'ton just going hard all the time.
There's certain things we can workthrough where you can get better with

(46:37):
less training, like actual hard training.
And it's easier on the body.
It's more accessible fora larger group of people.
And you actually, I. Get betterJuujitsu, which is the whole point,
'cause I think that getting betterJuujitsu is great because it's more fun.
If you don't get better juujitsu,but you're a tough person.
It's miserable every time you go, right?
Because you just buttheads, you get beat on.
Your body's just getting wreckedand it may be fun for you, but I

(46:58):
don't think it really is that great.
But once you get better, you can stillhave hard rounds, but it ends up being
more fun as somebody who is over 40 anda smaller guy, where is that fine line?
Like how do you train bestnow to get a nice mix?
'cause obviously.
You want to have some of those hardroles, but you also wanna work on stuff.
And I feel like I go back andforth where, I jump in there and

(47:19):
I'm like, I'm gonna work on this.
And then you get some purple beltwho's like, not bad, but not great, but
like you said, tough athletic and he'sbringing a pace that you're like man.
And so then you default backto, this is what I'm comfortable
with, this is what I'm good to.
And you don't try these new thingsbecause you know you don't wanna
lose or you don't wanna give it up.
So you have to, it reminds me of almostlike a comedian, when you want to
get a new great act, you gotta bomba bunch of times before you get good.

(47:42):
So is that part of where you've gotten tothe point to figure out these things as a
smaller grapple that work on the big onesis getting smashed a thousand times and
just accepting it and learning from it.
And when do you turn it back up?
Like do you mix up your training?
'cause sometimes you go,I'm gonna have a battle.
Or like, what's the smart training forJason Yang as a smaller grappler over 40?
Yeah.
So for me I think the best advice Igot was from John Danaher as well.

(48:03):
And then a wrestling coach I had,at Columbia is that if you're a
smaller person, your primary concernalways when you're grappling.
Is to not get hurt because you canbe in situations where even if you're
doing the right technique, but somethingexplosive happens, you could get hurt.
So let's say I'm cross eyeing someoneand I decide to post my arm out because

(48:24):
I don't wanna get bridged over wellwith that person's weight, their bridge
explosiveness, my arm could get hurt.
In that case, I might notbreak my arm, but I could hurt
my wrist or sprain my elbow.
So my goal is always during a roleto always put myself in positions
where I will never, probably notbe in danger of getting hurt.
And if I'm in a position that's reallydicey, just to concede it, like if

(48:46):
someone has a single leg on me and theyhave my leg torqued out, so like I'm
gonna concede that single leg, I'm notfighting in the NCAA championships where
I need to like have my knee twistedout and do some funky like escape.
So I think that one thing is justalways put yourself in safe situations
before you even start your offense.
Like don't start offense until you realizethat everything around you is safe.
It sounds like you're doing areally long thing, but it's not.

(49:07):
It's just a, it could be lessthan a second or a few seconds
just to monitor, like, is my safehand in a safe position here?
Is my neck in a safeposition, here is my leg.
And you do a quick check and thenyou're like, all right, I can
start passing half guard here.
I can start doing my offense here, gettingto a certain position and be like, I
have a submission on my partner now.
I haven't finished it yet.
Not quite there, but am I safe ifthey decide to pick me up and slam

(49:29):
me even though that wouldn't happenin training or if, am I safe if
they decide to bridge in this thing?
And I think that kind ofkeeps your body safe as well.
Um, and I think a big thing that we'retalking about a lot more in industry now,
I always say pick your training partners.
It's not about picking your trainingpartners to be like, oh, I want
to be able to beat everybody.
But it's picking people you trust.
It could be any size, but.

(49:50):
You have to build to trust them.
When it comes to training, Ithink a lot of times we want
to challenge ourselves a bit.
There's a new person, we wanna do this,but when you get to this age, one little
slip up could cost you six months oftraining or a year of training because
you decided you just wanted to do it.
It's better to train if people you trustor at least observe them training for

(50:11):
a certain time if it's a new personbefore you start training with them.
And if it's just not going right,play defense until the round's
over or just say, Hey, you knowwhat, I've had enough for now.
Like, or I need to sit out for now.
And I think that a lot oftimes people don't do that.
They do one last role, they're like, orI'm just going to train at that person.
And that's where they get into trouble.
I hear countless stories where like, classis over, but then someone wanted to do one

(50:32):
more and I did one and they got injured.
Or I know I shouldn't have gone with thatperson, but I decided to, and then I got
injured or things were going really badin that round, but I felt embarrassed
to tell them that I, we should stop now.
And then my neck got cranked.
For me it's.
More about preserving my own body sothat I can be good training partner,
good teacher to my friends, as opposedto like testing my body against something

(50:55):
that, it could potentially get hurt.
I think that's extremely good adviceand I'm getting better at that now,
where like, I'll sit down with aguy who'd be like, how are you?
I'd be like, dude, I'm both,my shoulders are banged up.
I haven't trained in months.
I'm just looking to get back.
And he is like, cool, man, let's roll.
And then dives on you and goes, I know.
Like, why'd you even bother asking?
You know what I mean?
Like, what whatcha doing dude?
So I was like, all right, next timeI'm not gonna roll with that guy.

(51:15):
Whereas like, OMI would be like Idon't wanna, so I think that this is a
good thing where for people listening,because sometimes you don't know, man.
Like I remember I went down andsomebody at Sarah's, 'cause they
used to do, I don't know if they dothis at Henzel, but there was a while
where like at the end of class theywould be like, Hey guys, here's take a
shower, cut your nails, wash your belt.
Don't do this, don't do that.
And they would give you kind ofthings where you were like, oh.

(51:36):
And then one day somebody waslike, dude, it has a lower belt.
You don't go up to a blackbelt and ask them to roll.
And immediately I waslike, nobody told me that.
Like I probably should'veknown that, but I just didn't.
And I immediately went up toDrago, Pete Drago selling.
I was like, Hey man, like I apologize.
I asked you to roll last week.
And I didn't know.
And he was like it's different'cause we're friends.
I was like, yeah.
But yeah, I didn't and now I know.
So for somebody listening, if they'regoing I don't even know like the

(51:59):
etiquette of being a good or badtraining partner, is there any tips
you can give for somebody listening ofwhat a bad training partner might be?
So if they're listening, theymight go, oh yeah, that's me.
I should change something.
Um, it's tough to say exactly 'cause Ithink like bad training partners have
like bad attributes that we couldn'tjust like list them all right now.
Um, but I think that if you're a badtraining partner, one thing is you

(52:21):
can figure it out a little bit becausepeople will start to refuse rolling
with you or like avoid rolling with you.
The only people that will roll with youare like the other bad training partners.
So then you get stuck in a mixof like you're all guys who are
just like killing each other.
But I think when it comes to etiquette,a lot of it's just like observation.
I think we oftentimes don't gointo things like observing, like

(52:43):
etiquette can't all be taught.
Like we don't learn all the etiquettein life about how to interact.
When we go to a coffee shop or eatdinner from someone telling us when you
go to a coffee shop, you gotta do this.
Or when you eat dinneryou have to do this.
You learn some of it when it comes totable manners, but it's just observing.
Like when you go to a class, look around,you look at the people, look at the people

(53:04):
who seem to be the people who know whatthey're talking about, or the higher ups.
Look at the people aroundyou and how do they behave.
Look at good people thatyou want to emulate.
And I think a lot of that comes tojust taking the time to observe.
And I know it can be hard.
You go into class imitating you,Tim Day, you know what's going on.
But like listen.
When the instructor's talking, whenthey're saying certain things that.
May be important, and notjust about the technique.

(53:26):
They're probably saying it for a reason.
Look at how the other students behave.
Are they goofing off?
Are they doing weird things, orare they just standing still?
When the instructor's doing a technique,when you're supposed to be drilling
the technique, look around you.
Or is everyone doing it?
Or is some person doing themove that they wanna do?
Or is someone being disruptive in class?
Are they always talking whenthe instructor's talking?

(53:46):
So I think a lot of this is observablewhen it comes to learning etiquette.
And if you don't understand, ask,like, I've had students come up to
me like the rule you were saying.
That's like an unspoken rule incertain academies, in stricter.
Like you can't ask higher belts to roll.
And then.
You can just ask like, Hey, I don'tknow if I'm allowed to do this,
but can I ask that person to role?
And then, the academy will each haveits own rules, but it's okay to ask.

(54:09):
I think a lot of communicationin jujitsu is like totally lost.
Like sometimes people send me threads on,um, Reddit, or it's like a silly BJJ thing
where it's like, I did this, and this.
Like, am I the jerk for doing this?
And the answer's always like, did youtalk to the person about this behavior?
Or did you like talk toan instructor about this?
So a lot of it is probably in your head,but if you just go talk to someone,

(54:30):
you, they'll give you the answer.
They'll tell you what'sright and what's wrong.
It's better to find out that waythan to, get beat up if you have
a school where they'll beat youup for doing something wrong.
I think that's greatinfo man communication.
I tell everybody the lack ofcommunication has been most of
my problems in life and business.
So I think just asking questionsinstead of wondering is a huge
thing to take away from this.
And as I know, we're wrappingup on time over here.

(54:52):
Everywhere I go across theworld, I talk to people.
And anytime I mention Matt Henzel Gracie,people have these incredible stories of
something that they saw Henzel do or likethe Tobo story with him becoming a friend,
or Damian Maya telling me about like thehomeless guy that he let live in the gym.
Like, there's all these things.
Yeah.
So you've been like literallythere for 20, 25 years.

(55:15):
I would be remiss if I didn't ask you,do you have any like great Henzel Gracie
stories about, just Henzel being henzel.
Yeah, but I don't wanna likego into any specific stories.
But I think that one thing that I cansay that probably covers many different
stories is just his generosity of spirit.
Like he has this quality, and we talkedabout like magical qualities that all

(55:37):
of our instructors have had where he cancome into a room and look into a room and
see the person out of a crowd of 60, 70,a hundred who may be a little bit down.
And there have been countless times whereI have seen him walk across the room and
see a person with like a beat up shirt.

(55:57):
They're shy, they, maybe it's their firsttime coming and him literally taking
like a brand new rash, start off of hisback or a t-shirt, giving him a bunch of
stuff saying, Hey, you know what, champ,this is yours now please wear this.
Because they could see the person wasdown, they were nervous about things and.
That's will always resonate with meabout Henzel, like that idea that he
can always make you feel so specialbecause he really thinks you are.

(56:20):
I really think that our instructorsdo really see those qualities in us.
I remember all of Matt Sarah'sencouragement when I first started
training at Columbia, and thenI immediately started training
Zos and he was there teaching thenoon class and I was there too.
It's that even if you are feeling scared,you're feeling unsure of yourself.
They always see something in youseeing that they see something special
in you, and then they're able tobring that specialness out of you.

(56:44):
I think that's incredible, man.
And I agree.
Every time I've ever, I. Had theprivilege of meeting Henzel, he makes you
feel like the only person in the room.
And Matt, Sarah is somebody that overthe years I always feel like if I ever
called in and needed anything, he'salways there to pick up the phone.
Like he, those are guys that wantaccounts, they're there, and I think
that's important knowing you havethose people in your corner and that
you would do the same for them And foryou, sir, I think everything you've

(57:04):
done in life has been incredible, man.
I'm completely inspired by your journey.
I think about it all the time when,I'm struggling with stuff or I'm
thinking about like ego or reinventionand, I just think you're fascinating.
What you do, I think isrespectful, it's honorable.
And on top of that, you don't accidentallyget to survive 25 years in a place
like Henzel Gracie's, unless you'realso like a good human being, sir.
So I appreciate that our paths crossed,you really helped me out on the mats.

(57:27):
You gave me a lot to think aboutoff the mats, and I'm very excited
to come back to New York City Yes.
And train with you andmy good buddy, ed Sel.
And hopefully we can we can meetup one day down at Matt Seras.
But yes, for right now,where can people find you?
How can people connect with you?
What's new and exciting andfor the future of Jason Yang?
Yep.
I'm at the Henzel Gracie AcademyNew York City, the Midtown location.
So I teach there.
I'm usually there almost every day,so I teach six days a week, but I'm

(57:50):
usually there on a seventh day as well.
Um, my Instagram's at CriminalDefense butcher with a C for the
defense, so a silly like, Instagramhandle on my wife came up with
no new projects on the horizon.
I'm actually just enjoying doing this.
I've done, full-time teachingfor about a year now, even
though I've taught in the past.
It's been really rewarding.
The administration at theAcademy has been great.
The students have been great.

(58:11):
All my colleagues havebeen super supportive.
Um, and I hope to see you at the Academy.
That's awesome, man.
Obviously, for anybody listening, Iwill put all the links to everything
you do and all your socials in HenzelGracie Academy in the show notes.
And I highly recommend if you are inNew York City, dropping in a class and
definitely asking about taking a private,because that was a game changing lesson
for me that I really appreciate you,sir, or somebody who brings your a game

(58:32):
to everything you do in Life in Businessis this interview has been no different.
You definitely bought your Agame to the A Game podcast today.
Any final thoughts before I let you go?
No.
Thank you so much, Nick, Jason Yang.
Ladies, gentlemen, Jedi, Jason Yang.
Thank you so much for comingon, sir. Have a fantastic day.