191 - Civil War

Dallas and Lee review Alex Garland's latest film, Civil War. This film marks A24's biggest opening at the box office in their history. Set in a dystopian future America, it follows a road trip undertaken by a team of military-embedded journalists racing against time to reach DC before rebel factions descend upon the White House.

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
Welcome to the Nerd Party War.What is it good for making movies?
It turns out, Hello and welcometo the A twenty four project Here on
the Nerd Party Network, the onlypodcast that takes you through the entire back

(00:23):
catalog, reviews the latest releases,and brings you interviews with the people behind
the movies and TV shows. Ontoday's show, we review the number one
movie in America, which shows Americain complete turmoil. It's Civil War.
I'm your co host, Ales King, and with me as always is the
wide eyed innocent Kaylee Speeney to mycynical, jaded, cursed and dunst It's

(00:43):
a Lee Hutchison. How are you? Yeah? An absolute pleasure to be
here. After recording a few episodestalking about the Curse, and a few
more Curse episodes to drop, lookingforward to discussing something that's very lightweight,
like the Civil War with you today, Dallas, and talk to someone who
has not appeared in the Curse.So Yes. Unfortunately, it turns out,

(01:07):
trying to reopen a small independent cinema, there's a lot of bureaucracy and
funding applications that you need to dothat take up a lot of time.
But I did manage to take abreak this weekend and we can catch Civil
War, of course. And CivilWar is written and directed by Alex Garland,
the filmmaker behind Ex Mackina, Annihilationand Men. Stars Kristen Dunst,

(01:29):
Kayle Spenny Wagner, Mara and StephenMcKinley Henderson and of course Nick Offerman.
Very briefly, the film is ajourney into across a dystopian future America,
following a team of military embedded journalistsas a race against time to reach DC
before rebel factions descend upon the WhiteHouse. So, before we dive into

(01:51):
the film, where do you siton Alex Garland, both as a writer
and also as a director A fanof his work? Yeah, absolutely,
and so and I mean, Iknow, like it's one of those ones.
It feels like in the discussion aboutcivil wars, so many people seem
to find the time to kind ofshit on Men in the past kind of

(02:12):
a few weeks. And I meanI kind of thought Men was like a
down the middle three out of five. I someone that likes Rory Kanear.
I enjoyed lots of Rory Kaneer,and you know, Jesse Buckley in the
mix and so on, and like, it is a fine enough film and
you kind of place it in thetime of this was a COVID film,
people were thinking, how can weshoot things in tight locations with small casts,

(02:36):
So I think of something like EternalDaughter was in a very similar vein.
So you know, it was notthe most subtle thing in the world,
but I enjoyed it. It wasa fine enough film with yeah,
plenty of things to enjoy in it. So you know, in the grand
scheme of things, it was nevera film that really deserved to be thrown
under the bus. It's not asgood as say x macna Devs Annihilation,

(03:00):
you know, even some of hiswritten work like I Love Dread and Sunshine.
On top of that, like Sunshineis still one of my favorite experiences
in the cinema. So you know, I've got a lot of fondness for
for Alex Garland, and yeah,I'm always keen to see what he comes
out with and what he might haveto say. And you know, a
misfire like Men is more interesting thana lot of directors these days kind of

(03:22):
best efforts in my opinion, Yeah, Alex Golan does always feel like a
director who's got something to say.Whether or not the people watching the film
like what he has to say ormaybe even understand what he's getting at is
another thing. I think, Yeah, men being the perfect example of that.

(03:44):
But yeah, no, I meanhis first sort of doubt ex Machina
was you know, superb you know, his first sort of a link to
a twenty four. For me,I am a huge fan of Annihilation.
I absolutely love that and really stillgot was not able to see it in
a cinema. I think you initiallyit was streaming, but then I did

(04:05):
manage to get the It did eventuallycome out in Blu ray over here,
I think, And yeah, forme, I mean it's a miss underseen
and misunderstood gem. I know thata lot of people were talking about Alex
Carland just in the run up tothe film actually coming out about him stating
that he's now jaded with the directingworld and it's probably going to take a

(04:27):
step back. But I guess wecan discuss at the end of this podcast
whether or not you think he shouldor whether you'd like him to carry on
based on his latest effort. Butlet's get the elephants out of the room,
shall we. I think the biggestthing for me is that you know,
as you know we've had in thepast, particularly more I guess when

(04:51):
we're discussing some of those eight twentyfour elevated horrors. I mean you even
had an entire episode on it.When you talk to you know, a
trailer editor about how a twenty foursometimes go around crafting, I mean it's
all about, you know, youhave to get people into the cinema.
I understand that, but sometimes Iguess it's creative marketing, creative licensing about

(05:15):
how you present a film. AndI think it's safe to say that the
trailer for Civil War painted a verydifferent picture to the film that people actually
saw this weekend, and a lotof people saw it this weekend. It
was a number one movie in America. Grossed twenty five point one million dollars

(05:35):
in its opening weekend, which isA twenty four's highest ever opening weekend.
The previous high it's opening weekend wasHereditary and that was thirteen point five million,
So it did twelve million more thanthat. So a huge opening weekend
for them. But I mean thiswas trailered and sort of promoted very very

(05:56):
heavily. You know, the posterhad from the writer of twenty eight days
Later ex. Mackenna and Annihilation.You know, it was pushing not the
director of Men, but the writerof twenty eight Days Later. I guess
that sort of dystopian vibe they weregoing for. Presented as a big budget
war movie presented in Imax of allthings, even though technically I don't think

(06:16):
it was filmed in Imax, butyou know, stick up on the Imax
screens, why not as well?But yes, no, this was I
know you stay away from the trailers, but you've got since but it's it
was basically it did look like thiswas like, wow, this is like
a twenty four is almost like firstaction blockbuster. You know, this is
full on war movie. And that'snot the film that we got was no,

(06:43):
and it was one of those ones, like it's been interesting for me,
Like about two minutes from my flathas been a huge Civil War billboard
for about a month. I've neverhad an a twenty four billboard on my
street before, so it was alwaysinteresting to kind of walk past that.
And you know, I saw lotsof that. You know, for those
that maybe haven't seen it, it'syou kind of see these helicopters flying and

(07:05):
in the back drop you've got,you know, the Statue of Liberty exception.
You're kind of like, I betit's not really going to be that
type of film, And I couldimagine what the trailers were going to be,
maybe be market as is, maybefocusing more perhaps on the action,
because I think one thing will Iavoided the trailers and most I think I

(07:26):
saw a couple of seconds of JessePlemons kind of with a gun and then
this kind of quite bright knee onA twenty four logo. It was one
of those ones you kind of gotthe impression this was it was starting to
sound like a sure thing in kindof how people were talking about it,
that it was actually going to beA twenty four's biggest opening. And for

(07:47):
the past few weeks there's there's notreally been any doubts. You know.
You think of something like you know, some of the recent Marvel movies or
a Madam Webb, and people arelike, yeah, this is expected to
bomb and so, and they cometrue. It felt like the number that
people have been predicting for the pastweeks for Civil War came to fruition that

(08:07):
it would hit. This sort ofmid to high twenties number, and it
would bring in people that perhaps wouldn'tbe attracted to maybe some A twenty four
films, and that it was maybebeing advertised not just to the diehards that
we'd be going to see any oldA twenty four film or would be prone
to kind of seeing their type ofwork, but also the kind of I

(08:28):
think I saw stuff like the RedState Dads, etc. And so on,
and that they were looking to branchout to that, and I kind
of assumed if they are looking tobring in those people, I think the
advertising is maybe going to be alittle bit creative, but equally it's going
to be scratching those itches of thosetypes of people that maybe don't look at
an Alex Garland film and think,wow, I really want to have a

(08:50):
good meditation on conflict and war andso on, that I think there would
be something there that they would wantto go go see the cinea because they're
not always the crowd that turn upfor films in general. No, And
yeah, I think anyone who's familiarwith Alex Carland's work would have gone in
expecting it to be this kind offilm. But yeah, no, to

(09:11):
get that wider audings. It wassort of promoted in a different way,
potentially reflected in its cinema score.I normally don't pay too much attention to
cinema scores because normally the films thatI do really like normally end up getting
something like an F or an Ebecause people just you know, they're just
so wild and out there that peoplelike them. But this one got a
B minus, which was actually higherthan I thought it was going to be,

(09:33):
but still probably reflective of that potentialdisconnect between what was marketed and what
they actually got. And you know, I guess the other big thing that's
come out of this was and therewas a clear divide I think when the
first trailer was released earlier this year, or actually maybe even towards the end
of last year. I mean,I think the Civil War trailer is probably

(09:54):
the trailer which I've seen more ofthan any other trailer this year without probably
with the exception of The Art Guy, which ran for about six months straight
as well. And when it droppedthere was a real sort of divide between
people saying, oh my gosh,this looks fantastic, this is like a
twenty four or stepping up into thePotbuster game, et cetera, et cetera.
And then half of the critics alsogoing, oh, I do not

(10:18):
like the idea of this film.This is not the kind of film we
need to decide this is dangerous,et cetera. And then when you looked
at the divide of the critics whowere saying that the people who were really
looking forward to it seemed to bethe international critics and the people who are
a bit more wary of it werethe American critics. And yeah, there's
been some opinions on whether or nota film like this should have been released

(10:39):
in an America which is divided alreadyas it is, particularly in the year
of an election. Do you thinkit was the right call? I mean,
is there is there ever a goodtime to potentially, you know,
screen a film like this in sucha place. I saw those headlines and
it's just it's just articles for thesake of it, really, isn't it,

(11:03):
Like you know, you can seeit in the past, you know,
week and so. And there's beensome terrible takes from people where I'm
thinking, you know, their medialiteracy is all but dead, or you
know, some of the critical andeven some of the praise, just being
like did you watch the same film? I did? But you know,
by and large, it's not likeit's a film where people are going crazy
and mad and you know, personally, you know, I whether it's a

(11:28):
bit cynical or actually I think it'smaybe actually more spot on is I don't
think A twenty four are particularly againstthese types of headlines and so on.
It's like it's free marketing and that'ssomething that they've always kind of led into.
And I mean I saw like apost that they did on like Instagram
yesterday where it was like I thinkthey said it like the caption was like
one nation under civil war and itwas like all the top news headlines about

(11:50):
sort of like you know, theDaily Mail divisive civil war and you know,
men in Red States pushed to betterthan expected opening and number one of
the box office, Jesse pleming sunglassesprobably exactly like it's the most free advertising
possible, and they'll just be sittingthere thinking, you know, it's that
classic thing. I'm not necessarily equatingit to it. But you know how

(12:13):
many times when you were younger didyou hear about, Oh my god,
did you hear what people were likewhen they went to see the Exorcist movie,
people were like collapsing and they hadto get the hospital and all that
sort of stuff. And then itsexactly and this thing like what's what what
does this film do? Or saythat could really divide a nation and so
on, and the reality is it'sit's not that type of film, but

(12:33):
god, it's it gets it getsextra people into the cinema. So I'm
sure A twenty four welcomed it exactly. They were pulling up a page at
the Neon playbook with immaculate. Imean, anytime the church condemns your movie,
you slapped up on the post.So I mean, so we can
dive into the I mean it's it'simpot to dive into story too, because

(12:58):
as I said, you know,it's not in the movie that was portrayed
in the thing. It's not awar movie, per see. It is
essentially following, say, you know, a collection of four journalists as they
make their way from New York tod C. Towards the tail end of
the Civil War, where you know, it's you know, it's always been
pretty much front and center of allthe marketing. You know, the Western
forces of California and Texas, youknow, two states which are you know,

(13:22):
politically most of the time polar opposites. You know, are have succeeded
from seceded from the states and aregoing to take out a president who it
turns out is in his third term, which is you know, a hint
there. You know, no presidentshould be allowed to have more than two
terms in office. So there's ahint there that you maybe stayed on,

(13:43):
you know, against the will ofthe people, et cetera. But but
that was I was told there wasno politics, like that was why these
people would be divided and what couldbe bringing them in And you know,
next you'll be telling me he waskind of guilty of like carrying out airstrikes
in his own people. But yeah, definitely no no politics or hence what

(14:03):
that would divide them. Yeah,you mentioned that. I know it must
have been really subtle. Yeah itis. It's it's a difficult one,
isn't it, because you know it'sI guess maybe that's I think that's one
of the issues that people have had. And this is where the sort of
I guess the media literacy thing comesin is that it doesn't take a stand

(14:24):
on the politics it's never explicitly saidwhether he's you know, a Republican or
a Democrat. You know, hehas a blue tie and at one point
does that mean something? You know, and the choice of the states which
are rising up and stuff like that. It never gets into the what actually
happened to start the Civil War.This is purely about the documentation of war

(14:48):
per se. It's like, theseguys are just and it's almost like this
the detachment that you have to havein order to be able to do it,
and look are quite sort of disturbingand frontening detachment at times. And
I mean they are there to capturewhat is happening, not comment on it.
And then it's also about the importanceof capturing it. And you know

(15:11):
that it's said several times, andthe thing about you know, well,
we're your parents doing all this.Oh they're back on a farm ranch in
Colorado and Montana and whatever, youknow, pretending that it's not happening.
It's like if you're not. Ifthey the war photographers are not there to
physically take the photos, to putthem in people's faces, to confront people
with what is actually going on,people can ignore it and just pretend it's

(15:35):
not happening, and that you know, it's a very contentious issue to get
into, which we probably shouldn't oryou know, it's too big for this
particular episode of the podcast. Butlook at what's going on in the world
right now, you know, othercountries and stuff like that. You know
people are you know, taking standson it, but other people are choosing
to, you know, ignore what'shappening because you know it doesn't concern them

(15:58):
or whatever. But you know,potentially at some point it might. I
mean, so, I mean,what did you make of Alex Garland's you
know, very clear path through thisof I will not show the war personally,
I will not get into the mechanicsof why this country is it war,
but I will show the process ofwhy it's so important to have people

(16:22):
like this. That's the more interestingfilm for me. And I was thinking
back to and I think you stillget films that do this, But there
was maybe like a kind of trendin the sort of kind of you know,
the late early two thousands and allthat where you would get these sorts
of things where there be a kindof prequel comic book that you could buy
that would set the scene of likehow did a conflict or a certain event

(16:44):
happen before we dive into the actionadventure and so on, that there was
really kind of all the rage.And in another universe there's probably something like
that for civil war that's done.But for me, like, you know,
you know enough about what's going onin America just now, and I
have my own imagination that I canfill the gaps in like I don't need
to, you know, you thinkof it like as you say, Texas

(17:07):
and California maybe odd bedfellows, butsure I could imagine a scenario where they're
brought together for some reason. Likethe mechanics fundamentally don't matter, like the
themes are what's the most interesting thing. And you know the film is this
really tight one hundred and ten minutesand you're not sitting there thinking, God,
I really want this to be onehundred and thirty minutes where there's just

(17:27):
people talking about, you know,or what happened, or you know,
even thinking like a RoboCop or terminatorstyle kind of thing of like in twenty
twenty, you know, X personbecame you know over you know, to
go on a third term or whatever, and like that and it's like stuff
like that is fundamentally not as interesting, and I can just use my own

(17:49):
imagination. As as we mentioned,there's enough hints of things like a third
term people kind of bombing their owncivilians. Sure, I'll go along with
with that and kind of make myown mind up. And I like a
dystopian film and so on, likeno one ever sits there with mad Max
on the other end and go,God, I really wonder how all of
this came around, and so on, etc. And you know, it's

(18:12):
just it's that's interesting and stuff likethat to be thrown into the middle of
things. I like a war storylike that and so on, and I
can trust myself to figure out whatI need to figure out. But it's
not a film for that type ofthing that really involves much brain power.
It just involves me thinking about someother things and going along with the experience

(18:34):
and so on. And I kindof felt to an extent, and I
mean this in a positive way.I was like, Oh, this is
an immersive but passive experience that I'msimilar to these photographers that I'm watching these
things unfold and you know, goingalong with things and watching these images unfold
on the screen, And isn't thatkind of quite impressive that Garland has managed

(18:56):
to produce that effect of me andso on. I just thought that was
particularly impressive. That was all themore interesting then stilted, boring dialogue being
kind of thrown out. What aboutfor yourself? Yeah? No, I
mean I came out of the filmslightly muted, I think, and not
because it wasn't the film that wasexpected. You know, I was expecting

(19:19):
something more you know, thought provoking, in cerebral than you know, for
action film whatever. But I wasquite mute. There was just I wasn't
really I guess, yeah, maybeI just I didn't have that emotional connection
to it. But then it isa film which I have thought about more
and more since, and you knowit it's for the photographers. I mean

(19:45):
you can see in several sort ofscenes it's about not having that emotional If
you have an emotional connection with whatyour film and whatever, you will not
be able to do the job thatyou need to do. And for me,
sort of looking back on it,about this sort of you know,
sort of thinking of like Apocalypse Nowor something, this sort of heart of

(20:07):
darkness journey where you know, thelead character is Kristin Dunns, and she
is very you know, not nonplusby everything that's going on. And then
you've got Kaylee Spenny who wants tobecome a wolf dog, which he tags
along on this journey. And it'show they sort of are opposite end of
the spectrums and then crossover at onepoint. And you know, you can

(20:30):
see kirst and Duns towards the endand the final sort of third act,
which is this sort of siege inWashington to get to the White House,
becoming more and more emotional involved.She's like screaming, she's crying and stuff
like that, whereas Keay Spenn isbecoming more and more switched off to everything
that's going around her and only focusingon the shot until you get to that
big climactic moment. And in aweird way, it was also a nice

(20:53):
sort of passing of the torch betweentwo leading ladies from Sophia couple of movies,
you know, her first one ofthe Virgin series sides to relate its
one Priscilla as well. So that'swhere it really sort of criticized me as
I thought more and more about itin the In the yeah, it's it's
it's a film which, yes,has grown on me ever since I've seen

(21:14):
it. You're absolutely spot on.That was a similar comparison that I was
making when I was watching of like, oh, this is apocalypse now they're
going upriver to find X person andso on, and it's like, it's
such a simple narrative. I mean, it's it's I don't mean this in
any way to kind of dismiss thefilm, but it's very much it's quite
simple road movie, isn't it.Like you know, it follows that kind

(21:37):
of tropes of like, you know, a young person, whether it's you
know, at the beginning of ajourney or coming out of teenhood and so
on, that goes on this roadtrip journey, and then along the way
they encounter these experiences, whether it'syou know, we bump into X person
and we learn a little bit moreabout ourselves as we go away, and

(21:59):
by the end of the they havegone on this this amazing experience in no
time at all. I mean,it's such a conventional story trope and so
on, and it works really incrediblywell here. And I do like that
element of it where, you know, with Kristen Duntzt's character where you know,
she is so passive at the beginning, and then you know when she

(22:21):
sees sort of her mentor diet kindof shakes her a little bit out of
it, of like, oh,is this all really really worth it?
And so on, And I wasthinking about that with I agree. You
know, journalism, you know,in terms of photography, should have an
element of detachment, and you knowit, I'd imagine that's easier said than
done, to be honest, Butat this the same time, it's so

(22:45):
fascinating the aspect of like we captureit so people home and abroad or whatever
can judge it, and which isan interesting thing. And then when we
talk about media literacy, I thinkthat can be applied to the news and
the world as well. And youcan have pictures of dying children and gaza
and people will still dismiss it.You know, we'll throw it away,

(23:08):
et cetera. You know, it'sit's you know, it's so disappointing to
see how people's work can be youknow, abused like that. You know,
you think that you're you know,she has this idea that it's going
to change minds perhaps or something likethat. People see this going, oh,
I can't believe we've later got tothis. People are dying in streets
or you know, what have you. But it doesn't. It continues and

(23:30):
you know, violence begets violence andso on, which was was really interesting
to explore the kind of maybe lackof effect of war photography compared to maybe
days gone by, when you thinkof that one where there's the person standing
in front of the tank or variousother ones in the Vietnam war hasn't got
as much impact as it has itused to. I don't really know.

(23:53):
I mean, I guess it's it'sinteresting in that back then, if it
wasn't a war photographer shooting it andsharing it, you might not know about
it, Whereas I guess these days, with mobile phones, social media wherever,
the people who are actually in thewar on the front line, you

(24:17):
know, whether they're like it ornot, civilian stuff, everyone is able
to document and capture what is goingon and present a narrative and stuff like
that. So I guess maybe theimpact has less and slightly, but I
think the film does still show theneed for people here and that Yeah,
when you're talking about the sort ofthe death of our mentor and stuff like
that. You know, she'd saidto Kaylee Spenning Katy spenhead Aster earlier in

(24:41):
the film, you know, ifI died, would you take the shot?
And she went yes, And thenyou know she's staring at this photo
she's taken of her mentor has passedaway, and you know, she hovers
over it and then she deletes itand I think, I guess that's the
the switch, you know, wherethat's the moment that she she changes and
then yeah, Kaylee Swenney's character sortof takes over and stuff like that.

(25:04):
And I mean, like you see, this is a road movie. It's
very sort of episodic and sort ofchapter like in nature, you know,
going to a new town, meetingdifferent people and know every sort of character
is different and stuff like that,and you know it's I mean, were
there any particular sort of highlights foryou out of the various sort of people

(25:25):
that they meet in situations they getinto. I mean, one thing which
astounded me was just how you know, people just reacted to, oh,
you've got a press badgle, you'vegot a press out on. Okay,
we're not going to shoot you.You can just tag along with us and
stuff like that, and you know, no matter what side they were with
it at the time and stuff likethat, and it was like, I
just can't believe that whatever, there'sstill that respect for their for the role

(25:48):
of journalism. Make sure to keepa hold of any of that can press
the preditation member of the press,right reviews. It's fine for me.
The real standout was the Jesse Plemonsone, for for example, I just
you know, I knew he wouldobviously be in the film and so on,
and just that whole few minutes wasjust I went to see it in

(26:11):
an Imax and just like the tensionand like it was a film you know,
you can tell you know, Idon't mean this in a negative,
but like the crowd was entirely silentfor that whole film. Just you could
feel like real tension and just thatwhole scene you were just like, oh
my god, where's this going?And so on and again it's one of

(26:32):
those ones that you don't need tobe some sort of political scientist or have
things spelled out for you to knowwhat's going on in that scene, and
it was just you know, sotense and just like, oh, where
in America are you from and youknow, when someone maybe mentions outside of
America and just like the sound ofthat gunshot an imax was just incredible.
I was tempted to go see inforty X the Dead, but interesting to

(26:55):
see how that film that sequence wouldhave gone down. But yeah, I
thought that was really incredible, andI see that one's becoming a bit meaned
now and so on. I sawone where, you know, examples of
it like, oh, you know, what kind of alien fan are you?
Are you a fan of alien andaliens always? You know, you're
like, oh my gosh, justlike the way these things kind of go

(27:15):
quickly and so on. But yeah, I thought he was was excellent and
he just stole the show. Andthose those red shades and one of those
ones. It'll be interesting to seeif A twenty four does market those for
for example of like dress like yourfavorite psycho killer and so on. I'll
be I'm curious to see how theyfall on that one. But yeah,
his was particularly impressive. What aboutfor you? And apparently last minute apparently

(27:40):
I was reading that, Yeah,the actor who was cast had to drop
out, and Kirstin Dunst happened toknow a guy. Yeah, married to
a guy he might he might beable to help you called Jesse it's fine,
and then yeah, I mean itwould be a certainly different delivery of
that version of Jesse Plemons was askingyou about your freely chips and how that

(28:03):
could be profitable. But you know, for me, it was just like
a scene weight Like you say,you didn't know exactly where it was going
to go. It was just sotense, and personally speaking, I'm not
sure he was really caring what thepolitics were either side. This just seemed
like a guy who was not afan of certain types of people, and

(28:26):
he was using the war as anexcuse, sort of like a purge opportunity
and stuff like that. I don'tthink it would have mattered where you but
what your politics were in that situation. Another one that I did like was
the part where they sort of stopalong the road and there's this sort of
weird, sort of leftover Christmas Wonderlandtype exhibit and then they get shot at

(28:51):
and then there's like a couple ofsnipers on the ground who are trying to
shoot some guy who's out in amansion quite far away, and it's like
who is he? And they're likewe don't know, and it's like who
you is, it doesn't matter,and it's like, well, he started
shooting at us, so we're tryingto shoot back at him, and it's
just like the futility of what It'slike, yeah, they don't even know
who, you know, which sideeither person is on, but like you're

(29:12):
shooting at me, Well, I'mgoing to shoot at you. And it's
just I guess it's that fear ofyou know, the unknown, and how
quickly something can just snap and changeand your life's in danger. And it's
like, yeah, so, Imean that was quite another terrifying moment for
me to watch and stuff like that. But yeah, no, I mean

(29:33):
it's just I guess it's it's it'sa scary film and that it's yeah,
it's fictional. It's just being Yeah, part of you goes, yeah,
you know, but this probably couldhappen, couldn't it. Yeah, It's
one of those ones. It isquite terrifying thinking we're in an American election

(29:56):
year again and someone like Trump,after everything that he did in office and
before and afterwards, Christ not,how is he even within a chance of
winning again. It's it's one ofthose ones you think, God, surely
not. But I had the sameapproach last time, and with Brexit and
so many other things, and yeah, here we are. It's just I

(30:18):
find it just absolutely terrifying. AndI can't imagine what must be like to
be to be an American and tothink he could he could be back again.
It's been nice to just blank alot of America for the past four
years and not have to think aboutit and yeah, here we go again.
Yeah, And so what did youmake of the sort of shooting techniques

(30:38):
and the sort of cinematography and stufflike that, because I mean, there's
been some interviews with a Garland andsome talk about, you know, are
the shots the photographs that you seein the film, are they actually taken
by the actress who were playing photographersand stuff like that, and he said,
you know, yes, And evento the point where in the final

(30:59):
sort of siege on the White House, the camera that Kaylee Spenny used because
her photographer character wants to shoot onthirty five mil film, you know,
give our way film, real film, great, not to chok camera,
but it wasn't working really properly withyou know, the lighting setup and whatever.
So what they actually did was haveher sort of maneuver the cinematographer in

(31:22):
the way that and sort of havehim point the camera where she would point
the camera, because you know,they've been doing it in rehearsal, so
she knows, she knew what kindof shots she would want to take based
on the action, and then theywould then grab still images from what he
had shot in one of those sortof sequences and stuff like that. So,
I mean, it's that kind oflevel of detail and thought which you

(31:44):
know, you can only really appreciateonce you've sort of found that out afterwards,
and it's the kind of thing whereyou almost want to go back and
rewatch the film to sort of seehow that would have been playing out on
the screen as well. So yeah, I mean, it's it's a film
with I think it's gonna continue togrow on me, and you know,

(32:05):
invite multiple rewatches, I think.So, I mean, I don't think
too many, because it is quiteslightly disturbing, depressing sort of scenario.
But yeah, I'm definitely definitely keento see it again. I was a
really fancy just out of curiosity becauseI've never seen an A twenty four film
and in four D X and allthat sort of stuff. You know,
So I was kind of tempted togo along and see that one, for

(32:27):
example, But yeah, yeah,I really do want to see it again
and so on, just like evenjust I thought it was just the fact
that it's like, got this sucha tight run time and it just feels
like a film that you can justgo and experience and so on. And
you know, with it being thefirst time I watched it, I kind
of just let it wash all overme. I was kind of thinking about

(32:51):
it, kind of watching it alland I just thought it was a great
experience and you know what cinema isat its best doing and so on sometimes
and you know, I think Ididn't have that emotional connection that you know
I sometimes look for in films thatI find a bit rare, and that
would have bumped up. But Ireally do want to see again. And
yeah, I'm just just about findingthe finding the time with these things.

(33:15):
Yeah. And so as we sortof draw a line under the under Civil
War, come back to the originalquestion of you know, Alex Garland,
and you know, I'd said thathe was thinking about not directing anymore because
he was kind of jaded with allsort of thing based on what you experienced

(33:35):
with Civil War. Would you likehim to step back behind the director's chair
again or would you be happy forhim to maybe continue writing and have other
people direct the film. I mean, what did you make of the direction
of this film? Yeah, Ithought I did an excellent job, and
I think the reality is he's he'sgoing to come back to to do something.

(33:55):
I think it was one of thoseones. I think it was slightly
over egged, you know, thathe was stepping back or something like that,
And yeah, I thought that wasreally Yeah, I think he's come
back, And he said, Ithink he goes. I think if you've
got something else kind of lined up, and you know, obviously I think
we've got this twenty eight Days Latersequel that's going to be on the horizon

(34:16):
with him and Danny Boyle to comeand so on. So yeah, I
think you'll come back. But Ithought it was it was really interesting.
You know, we go back twomen. And what I was thinking about
was that, you know, justa few months ago, we a few
years ago, we were watching thisjust film take place in this entirety of

(34:36):
like an English house and so on, and then you just watch him go
on such a huge scale as well, and you know, you've not really
got that before with Carlon films.Even something like Annihilation felt like it was
very much within a kind of youknow, this weird environment, et cetera.
But it didn't feel like epic andscale in in that kind of traditional

(34:58):
sense. But when I was justwhat that scene as it all goes down
in the White House, like,oh god, this is just huge and
so on, and oh wow,so this is what an a twenty four
blockbuster is gonna look like and soon, and it just felt just incredibly
well done and so on. Itwas just not something I'd maybe expected from
Garland. I think I said itto you just off air, where I

(35:20):
was like, I didn't think itwas gonna go out to this big blowout
shoot out in the streets of DC. Like there's the bit where they get
to Charlotte'sville and there's this helicopter descending, and I thought, oh, they've
captured the president. They're going tohave like a big talk now. No,
No, like they really go forthe all out action ending, which
was a surprise for Garland, buthe did an incredible job with it.

(35:40):
Yeah, and the majority of thetrailer is made up of shots from that
act. But I think I thinkI would like to see him direct again.
I think that if someone else haddirected this script, we would have
got a blunter, more unsubtle,stereotypical one movie. I think a lot

(36:00):
of it would have been changed.People would have been like, I think
we do need to have a bitmore context and background as to why these
people are fighting and stuff like that, And I think, yeah, the
sort of message message at the coreof the movie would have been lost if
someone else had attempted to take onand direct the work. So I thought
you did. I thought would doa great job. But it shows that

(36:22):
you can do thoughtful but also youknow he can shoot like as you said,
he can, he can direct actionand stuff. Because the final act
is thrilling months they get into DC, it's very very tense and how it's
how it plays out. So yes, no, Alex Scarland, if you
have to be listening to this episode, yes no, maybe take a break
to a year off or whatever,but yeah, don't hang up the directing

(36:45):
gloves just yet. I think Ithink you must be getting sick of people
asking him questions about this film.Just now and he must be definitely ready
to head away to a nice vacationsomewhere and hope for the best later on
this year. Yeah, no,I thought. I thought for a second
when that news broke before the presstoo had really sort of probably kicked off

(37:07):
that I thought, Oh God,this is going to be Christen Dunn's Cursed.
It's another Lars von Tuer to bedoing a press tour sort of thing
after Can But it seems to haveworked out quite well because yeah, people
are saying the movie not so let'shope it's not like so successful that someone
thinks, you know, would bea really good idea Civil War two.
Let's get a sequel going on.And I guess maybe the B Minuscore did

(37:31):
part of that was maybe playing intothe fact that people were very confused as
to where Iron Man and Captain Americawere. Maybe they maybe they might They
just must have sorted out their differencesoff screen, So who knows. But
that's all from us on this episode. We'll be back in the future with
some more reviews, including I thinkthe next one is going to be looking

(37:52):
at the two parts Steve Martin documentary, which is currently on Apple Plus.
So once I finished my next fundingapplication. We'll be back in the pod
Ragios record again. We'll see so