Season 2 - Ep 15 - The Pentagon Papers - Sleazy Spader Springtime 7: "Sleaze the Day" No. 4 - The After Movie Diner Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:13):
Yes, that's right. It's the inevitably nonsensical, yet hopefully enjoyable
After Movie Diner. If you enjoy the show and have
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(00:36):
You can also donate to the show directly at aftermovie
Diner dot com. Rate and review the show wherever podcasts
are found and rating and reviewing is possible. Even a
one star review provides useful insights on exactly the sort
of petty minded and wretched individual who negatively reviews free
entertainment they do not need to be consuming. So with

(01:00):
out further dribbling, John Cross.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Hello and welcome to the Aftermovie Diner. And yes we
have come to the end. It is the last episode
of Sleezy Spader Springtime for twenty twenty four, potentially the
last episode of Sleezy Spader Springtime Forever. There are a
few little performances that if we wanted to do, like
Spader Scraps down the Road, it's something we could potentially do.

(01:28):
But this is probably the last ever leading performance Spader
conversation that I'm gonna have on the aftermovie diner. So
who better? Who better to be in the guest host
seat than the man who has been with us low
these many years through every single episode of Sleezy Spader Springtime,

(01:50):
who has brought us emails galore, comments galore, and did
his own Sleezy Spader watching session with his long suffering
wife Joe. It is none other than Andy Lunn. Sir,
you are here in the aftermovie diner basement. How do
you feel? I feel good? Yes, it should be sneezy.

(02:14):
It is fantastic. Yeah, you are in a very loose seat.
You are on a leatherette armchair that makes farting noises
every time you so much. Just move ah wait, Sleezy
Spader Springtime. Welcome to the show. Oh it's a Sleazy
Spader Springtime. I want you all to know then, if

(02:37):
you please, there's Jake Spader sleez and it's got nowhere
else to go, so loose. All your blails is give
your nose a damn good blow. Because you don't, we
gonna give you one four rub the couse. It's twoenty
and twenty four Sleazy Spiner spring Time Show. Oh it

(03:03):
is two thousand and twenty four, Sweet spin Time Show.
But look, I was saying to Andy before we started recording.

(03:24):
You know, for years the Aftermovie Diner used to be
in a diner and have tons of background noise and whatever.
And now every sniff, cough, farting, chair noise and everything
else I try and edit out, and then I think
to myself, after editing these long winded podcasts, hell do
I bother people listen for years with fucking clinking plates

(03:47):
and crashing cutlery and banging things and drills and eight
AC units and people talking to the background. It was
all fine, my Andy. So what I wanted to ask you,
I don't know. Have youn't been on a podcast before.

Speaker 3 (04:02):
Yes, I've been a couple of the Wayne Gail variety
of podcast.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
Okay, so I'm not popping your podcast. Okay. So you're
you're very You're comfortable. I made you comfortable. You're a
couple of beers in and yes you're happy. Okay, good.
So let's let's start. First of all, you're in Connecticut,
you're in America, you're in you're in the basement. We'd
only met once before in London in the pub. How

(04:27):
does it how does it feel to be in the
belly of the diner beasts?

Speaker 4 (04:31):
Such as it's a big honor, it's you know, it's
nice to finally kind of see where the where the
magic happens.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
And and how does it feel to be closing out
what has been an epic multi year in Spader adventure terrifying, terrifying? Yes,
well it just worked out to me because I've been
you know it sneezy. Spader kind of eaked into summer
this this year and whatever, I don't care and oozed. Yes, yes,

(05:01):
it's slid into summer on its own stomach juices, because
I imagine Spader especially has become more portly that the stomach
probably has juices. What a horrible living. I always think
of Dan Aykroyd playing the mutant babies in Nothing but Trouble,

(05:24):
where they're all oiled up, and I don't know why
I think of that, but I or fat bastard with
a sort of greasy stomach. I think Spader. Spader probably
has a greasy gut. What do you think?

Speaker 3 (05:36):
I think so too, years of abuse.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
After years of fluid abuse, Spader has a greasy gut.
I quite agree, And so yes, so this is this
is the last one. I started to realize that, well,
I had a couple that I've recorded the Matt, I
had another one with Mo. I was really, really, really
trying to do one more between Moe's and yours. That

(06:03):
was going to be have a female co host, because
I wanted to cover Secretary with a female, because I
thought that would make it interesting. I'd always said I
wouldn't do Secretary because it's already so sleezy, like, what
would you possibly I mean, the whole movie is predicated
on his sleeves. But I thought maybe I could do

(06:24):
Maybe I'd get a female co I had someone specific
in mind, but she's sort of not podcasting on the
head for the moment, so that might not happen. But
then I thought, well, look, LUN's coming over, he's visiting.
I've got to rope him in to be the last.
Because you've become throughout the sleezy Spader Springtimes that we've done,
however many we've done as seven or eight and the diner,

(06:48):
you've become the mascot, the constant, the through line, the
lun emails and the through line, and I hope we've
always done your email's Justice. I know that we knew
each other before I started doing Sleezy Spader, because you
used to write into Profondo Cinema and I used to
write into Profundo Cinema. And I'm pretty sure you had
written in to my show prior to Spader, potentially maybe

(07:11):
once or twice, and I have to go back into
the annals of history at this point to figure out
where that was. And yet when we started Sleezy Spader springtime,
I can't remember was I aware of your like did
you was it your email saying my wife and I
had been watching Spader that kickstarted this or I think so?
Or did I start doing these shows? And then you

(07:33):
were like, wait, yes, the wife and I.

Speaker 4 (07:35):
Did so, as was ten years ago twenty fourteen, according
to the reliable letterboxed.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
Well, that was three years into my show, right, So
maybe you mentioned it and it gave me an idea.
I don't know. Otherwise you must have been listening to
the show and went, wait, Sleaze Spader, we did Joe
and I just did this a few years ago.

Speaker 3 (07:57):
I don't think that's what happened.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
You were like, I can't believe John of all people
is about to embark on the same insane mission that
you did. So talk to us all about your own
sleazy Spader journey. And I know we were discussing last night.
You couldn't quite pin for I'm not.

Speaker 4 (08:12):
Sure how it started, Whether it started with them, I
can't remember, whether The Blacklist was already on and that's
where we're watching that, and we went to Spade.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
I mean I've been watching Spade on and off.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
Right for years. He's been a constant.

Speaker 4 (08:25):
Yeah, gen x is sort of him and various other
people are just people you're watching.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
He is a sort of key gen x icon. I
know he doesn't get quite the sort of praise or
mentions that someone like an RDJ or even with his
recent documentary like some of the Brat Pack, Anna McCarthy
and Roblow and people. But I don't know. I think
we grew up with Spader. I mean, Spader has been

(08:53):
a constant in my life. There hasn't been a year
that I've been alive that Spader hasn't squeezed one out.
And in terms of his films and so I think
that I think he's a gen x icon. I think
we can call him that right without too much fear
of being people riding in Well, when John said gen

(09:14):
x yicon, I don't think like I don't think anyone's
gonna I wish I got hate mail. It would be
so fun, wouldn't it, John, When you said James Brader
was a gen x icon, I think what you need
to realize is it would be great if I had
Nick Piggy listeners like that. Sadly I only have about
four lests. It's not a big deal. But yeah, so
talk to us about you you start so blacklist.

Speaker 4 (09:35):
Was I think that's what was happening for that time,
and then I must have just suggested. I think we
watched Mannekin I think was the first one as well.
And then I have this. I'm about the only person
I think left in the UK that has a online
postal rental DVDs.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
Cinema Parodies is very good. Yeah, I don't know. I'm
not sponsored by them or anything. No, but I mentioned
that because I didn't even know there was still an
armed DVD rental place happening anywhere in.

Speaker 4 (10:02):
The world, same as the kind of Blockbusters and all
that were before and right, Okay, so you have a
list and you put ties on there, so I think
from memory which is poor.

Speaker 3 (10:12):
That did I just I just put.

Speaker 4 (10:16):
A lot of mone there and then every week I'm
just getting two at a time.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
So how do you do? Do you do it? Is
it like a monthly subscription and then you can pick
you can have the subscription package on one. You can
have as many as you like within a month.

Speaker 4 (10:28):
So I kind of you know, if I can get
to in the night, I'll post them back and get
them to two in the week, so you know you
can get get plenty.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
Look at that right there. Yeah, it's fast.

Speaker 4 (10:37):
I mean there's cheap packages where you're only limited to
a month or something.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
But oh, here's a quick question, because we were going
through the whole public public versus privatization. Since Royal Mail
has been privatized, cauld you still squeeze four discs in
a week or has the mail slowed down? That's a
that's a good question because you're the only one getting
regular mail.

Speaker 4 (10:57):
Sunday mail I think was still just a thing and
I started him when that at least Sunday collection. So
when that stopped, that was kind of like, well, I'm
missing out here.

Speaker 3 (11:06):
Because I don't get it in Saturday and post on Monday.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
And did you used to write because our mutual friend
Mark Burns is in the postal service, did you write
to him make sure come in? I never thought the
Mark on the post of situation.

Speaker 3 (11:20):
I think he gets enough grief.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
I would love to have Mark on the show and
be like, so, how many people still rent from DVD places?
And he'd be like nobody else. Andy is the only
one keeping cinema part. It seems to do alright. They
must be right. I know no one else. I mean,
I know a lot of people that like films.

Speaker 3 (11:37):
I know no one else.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
It's fantasy. I think it's fantasy. First of all. I
think it's fantastic. Secondly, I like the idea that cinema parody.
So that's the name of the rest. It's really just
one guy whe a collection like mine or bigger than
mine or whatever that every sort and just goes this
lune fella keeps ordering a lot of movies from me,
your single handedly, like keeping him in his old deer

(12:02):
and visit, which I think is wonderful. Now, some of
the more obscure spaders were you able at, like Deadwood?
Is it dead wood? There on? There? My goodness, they
must be less rare in Europe than I guess it's
unheard of.

Speaker 3 (12:22):
You didn't particularly care for it, but no.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
It's not that I cared. I didn't care for it.
I cared for it quite a bit. But it was
one of the ones that falls into There are sort
of two types of Spader films. Uh. They all in
some way revolve around his penis, but there are ones
in which the entire plot hinges on him having sex.
Starcrost is another one where he has to have sex

(12:47):
with the alien or they all attack Earth or whatever
the plot of that movie is. I just remember him
hanging out in poolhalls wearing scarves, being like, how is
this an alien movie? But okay, I don't remember much
about it Star Crust, but I do remember him wearing
a lot of scarves, which maybe is where his scarf
fascination that continued into the blackness. But then there are

(13:11):
ones like Deadwood, where yes, okay, the plot is, you know,
man's watched up on island, woman takes him in and
it's sort of a misery style plot where the woman
kind of slowly becomes kind of a crazy captor. But
the movie still hinges on the idea that Spader is
having his way with this woman. There's so many movies

(13:33):
that basically hinge on the idea of Spader having it
away with a woman or many women. Yeah, and and
he's never hidden the fact. Like Boston Legal is another
series that although it's fantastic and it makes a lot
of political points, there's a lot of comedic points. And
you know, it's a pro people who are fifty, Like

(13:54):
the cars tend to be over fifty. And we were
talking the other day, like what is incredible about Buston Legal?
As You've got Captain Kirk Murphy, Brown, Larakeet who was
in Night Court, You've got Salek shows up, Magnum p I,
You've got all these Betty White is on there. You've
got all these iconic TV, you know, American TV like

(14:19):
Mount Rushmore. Right, you have all these iconic TV American actors,
and yet the show essentially still like how many subordinates
can Spade to have his way with? Because the show
starts and he's been knobbing Lake Bell, then he goes
onto nob Rhonami. There's even some indications that he would

(14:39):
quite happily slink with Betty White, he would happily nail
Schmidt if Shatner would let him. He has a dalliance
with his secretary, who was played by the woman on

(15:00):
Halloween h two. Oh she was one of the four
kids with Michelle Williams Josh Hartnell. Oh yes, yes, yes,
she's one of those four. Anyway, she's very attractive brunette girl.
She's in one of the episodes because she keeps telling
Shirley that he objectifies her and grades her sweat. She

(15:23):
leaves and then the next assistant he gets in, the
blonde Girl with Melinda or whatever her name is. She
has some credit issues. He beats the Yahoo from Texas
and gets her credit wiped and then she's all over
him like a rash. And then at the end of
the show he marries Shanner. Like it's the show From

(15:47):
one minute, he's you know, it's all about the ladies,
and then towards the fifth season it becomes about like
this weird bromance that has emerged. So there's a lot
of movies like that that Spader has been in. So
you saw Dead, when you saw Starcross, how many did
you make it through? Did you make it through? Pretty
much all his starring film.

Speaker 4 (16:06):
Yeah, I think it was twenty, so yeah, it's quite
quite a big and.

Speaker 3 (16:11):
It ran from I think we started March all the
way through the year.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
And how did your wife take to that? How did
Jerry take?

Speaker 4 (16:19):
Yeah, most of them, I think she you know, she
quite likes the Spade and so most of them was fine.

Speaker 3 (16:23):
There was a few she didn't watch, so you know, look, we'd.

Speaker 4 (16:27):
Get the video from the DVD from and you shouldn't
judge your Dunguese book by its covered.

Speaker 3 (16:33):
No, usually judge you.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
But she saw a witness something I'm not doing two
days in the valley, I can see people getting but
eyewitness that's a that's a that's a bit of an
obscure one. But no, it's it's a fascinating treasure trove
once you go down into the Spade. As well. Your
son John is phenomenally well versed in film thanks to you,

(16:56):
and speaks very eloquently on the subject. Did did Was
he hard of any of the Spader's orways he a
little young? Yeah? Yeah, you don't want to start eight
year olds on Spader, even the ones that don't have
any graphic content. He's graphic enough. Yeah, right, there's there's
too much. You don't want to scare John and John

(17:16):
being no, no, no, wait, there are men like this in
the world. Yeah, you know, it's it's a lot, it's
a lot.

Speaker 4 (17:21):
Spader's amusing. But you know you don't want to Creator. No,
you don't want to Spader in your house. Really, No, exactly. Well,
I think the thing I've always said is if someone went,
oh it's okay, James Spader can take your daughter.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
Home, you go no. No, there's no way on earth.
As much as we love him, as much as we
love Spader, there's no way on earth that he's driving
my daughter home if I had one. Uh, there's just
no way. He's not driving my wife home, my home,
my mother home, my grandmother home. No, women are getting
in a car with Spader in my life. That's as
much as I trust him, yeah, you know, to some extent.

(17:56):
I don't trust him with the ladies at all. Not
at all. So it was just you and Joe. You
watched a bunch. Now do you have your phone? Do
you know what ones on letterbox? Do you work? Yes?
I can find it and I can bring it up.
So when you look up James Spader on the letterbox,
you get several lists that people have created. We've got
James Spader created by a person called Kieker that just says,

(18:20):
watching every James Spader movie until I stopped being in
love with this man, check notes for random thoughts. Then
Andy said, all the James Spader films I've seen ranked
That was twenty nine films. Keiko has watched forty five films,
so she's beating Andy. Then you've got James, not Andy Lung.
But then you've got screen drafts, just as James Sprader

(18:40):
at seven films is Kay Hagen and Jen Johan's draft
the best films ever made starring James Spader. James Spader
movie's ranked by how much a fetish is taking over
his life? Oh my god, I've got to see this.
What do they reckon? They reckon? Crash is above secretary,
then sexialized video, bad, bad influence mannikin how is Mannequin?

(19:03):
Number five? What fetish is taking over Spader? In Mannequin?
Mannequin doesn't play James Spader, rather doesn't play the main guy.
It's he's the sleeping True Colours. There's no fetish in
True Colors, White Palace. He has tough turf. Okay, so yeah,
I don't agree with this list at all. James Spader's

(19:25):
Dick a film retrospective films either outright about Spader's member
or an important plot point hinges on his past, present,
or future actions. They reckon Crash, Sex sized videotapes, White Palace, Secretary,
Bad Influenced, wolf A, Dream Lover, Storyville, Stargate, and Two.

Speaker 3 (19:44):
Days in the Vat.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
I said, you need to add Driftwood and Starcross to
the list. I commented on that five years ago someone
said the most valued list on letterbox, Thank you for
your service.

Speaker 5 (20:08):
Yeah, we're looking like I started with sex Salizer videotape,
which I think I think ties in with I got
a strange thing with Soda burn over the years where
I liked Sexalizes videotap when I first saw it sort
of early to mid nineties possibly, and then have hated
every single film of his since, yes.

Speaker 3 (20:29):
Yes, up to that one with Claire what's her name
from the Crown unsane was it called?

Speaker 2 (20:37):
It's not no insane, nothing like that. Claire Claire, I
can't remember her name. Crown.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
So that was like thirty years sort of dislike a SOB.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
You don't even like the Oceans. I tried them, and
it's always yeah yeah.

Speaker 5 (20:52):
So I went back to sex La the videotape and
still liked it, and then it kicked off from there.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
I really should have. I think I made a list somewhere,
did you I think I did. I think I made
a Sleezy Spader Springtime list. In fact, I'm almost certain
I did. I just don't know if I kept it up.
Sleezy Spader Springtime. It only has twenty films on it,
so yeah, over the last four years, so I have
to update it. So James Black, I gave Jex Black

(21:21):
Jacks back. I gave three Dream Lover, I gave two
Super and Over, I gave three Watch. I gave two
White Palace. I gave two and a half Bad Influence
two and a half, New Kids three, Storyville three, Starcross
two and a half speaking of sex, did you ever
see Speaking of sex? Bill Murray And Yes, yeah, that's
a weird one two sex Size of videotapes. I gave

(21:43):
three Tough to three. I Wentness three, Alien Hunter two
and a half, Wolf three and a half, Driftwood one
and a half, Two Days in the Valley three, Stick
Up three, Slow Burn, one and a half and Keys
to Tulsa one and a half. So in my list,
Wolf it was my favorite Spader. But I haven't added

(22:03):
the last three years of Spader to this.

Speaker 3 (22:06):
And you've got twenty nine there?

Speaker 2 (22:07):
Do you say there's twenty because this is the first
four years.

Speaker 4 (22:11):
I've got twenty Spader films in twenty fourteen box the
only person sixteen is the most watched person, and that's Christopher.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
Walken and and and what was your highest ranked? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (22:24):
If I then do that, then yeah, Wolf's up there.

Speaker 4 (22:28):
They're five, yeah, six Wolf Crash secretary.

Speaker 2 (22:36):
So all the big ones really, isn't it right? And
then the worst.

Speaker 4 (22:41):
Ones Critical Care, which I've since rewatched and preferred and gave.

Speaker 3 (22:46):
I didn't give any start at all to Bob Roberts.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
Okay, I haven't seen that.

Speaker 3 (22:50):
I don't think he's any very much.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
I think that's what happened there. See. I think I
need to reevaluate this because I give driftwood the same
amount of stars as slow burning Keys to Tulsa, and
slow burning key to Tolds are far worse than drift
wood by about five hundred drift of I've given four. Really, Yes,
you're so generous. So what was it about drift Wood
that really made Was it Anna Massy showing up in

(23:16):
the flashback and you were.

Speaker 3 (23:17):
Like, amused by what do I stay on here?

Speaker 2 (23:19):
Yeah? What are you saying? Just?

Speaker 4 (23:22):
Yeah, I don't think I've ever seen a movie is
unintentionally hilarious?

Speaker 2 (23:25):
Is this one? Yes?

Speaker 3 (23:26):
It's miserable with snow and the novels.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
Or anything happen unlike Misery.

Speaker 3 (23:31):
It's not really any good, right?

Speaker 2 (23:33):
Yeah? Actually I don't know. I mean what's funny is
I don't know whether you have this as you get older.
I think you do because we both have that memory issue.
I feel like I need to now rewatch Space. I
mean I could listen back to the podcast and maybe

(23:54):
it would jog my memory, but I recall you.

Speaker 4 (23:57):
Really not liking it after I had really Yeah, but
then I've also given Alien Hat to three and a half.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
That was very generous, Yes, but slow Burn and Kista
Tulsa still remained the worst two. I think slow Burn
I got on here. I must have watched us that year.
Yeah they're not on that year. Okay, that's right.

Speaker 3 (24:21):
Then maybe I.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
Slipped into the following year. So if I just because
as this is the last episode. I feel like we
should also do We are going to talk about the
Pentican papers, but I also feel like we should do
just a bit of an overall kind of chronological look
at Spader. Now, did you watch any of the early

(24:44):
ones that I haven't seen, stuff like Endless Love or
a Killer in the Family or anything like that.

Speaker 3 (24:48):
No, my friend's gone on and on about Killer in
the Family being very good.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
Because that's Mitcham, right, Spader's just to think Mitcham that's
probably why. Okay, because Spadin is just a bit part.
He's not a main What about Greasy Lake? Did you
watch Greece? Did is that the Salts thing? It's like
a thirty minute thing?

Speaker 6 (25:09):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yes, any good ship? Okay, Uh, you know Sleeze's paid
spend Time is technically all feature length films, right, that
starred James Spainer.

Speaker 3 (25:23):
And you have to you have to have your rules.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
I have to have my rules. And my problem is
is that I cannot bide Eric Starts. I just cannot.
He is to me, he is anti cinema, like it's
the only like pulp fiction. I'll give him for like
a few minutes that he's in. But even in pulp fiction.
I'm like, he's trying too hard to do the Tarantino

(25:48):
patter that someone else, Samuel L. Jackson does effortlessly, or
even John Travolta does effortlessly, and I feel like he's
trying so hard that when that scene comes on, I'm like, stalts,
fuck off, Like I just stalts to me is an
anathema like ginger issue. Know, No, I love the ginger.

(26:08):
I myself, before my beard went white, was one of
a proud ginger, part ginger. I never had a lot
of ginger at the top of my head, but my
beard was entirely ginger and very proud of it. Okay,
Speeder is a sort of strawberry block. He has a
little bit of a ginge to it, especially when he
takes off his shirt and you're like, oh my god,

(26:29):
all the friends and the pasty, the pasty ginger pubes
that he has on his chest. It's always unpleasant. It's well,
I mean, if you think of Keys to Tults has
Stole Staltz has a full frontal scene in that movie,
which no one asked for, no one needs, no one wanted,
but there it is clear as the you know, clear

(26:52):
as the day not pleasant at all. So let's just
go through very quickly, and we're just going to give
need jerk like reappraisals of each movie. So it's Tough Turf.
That's really his first, starring Ross, and I think an excellent, fun,
weird because it's one of those movies that comes out

(27:15):
the height of the brat pack, or around about the
height of the brat pack, and yet is it's like
brat pack exploitation. It's like grindhouse brat pack almost. It's
not there's nothing mainstream about it. It's kind of you know,
violent and weird and whatever, and I quite like it.
I think Tough Turf is it's one of his better ones.

Speaker 3 (27:37):
Yeah, although I did get it mixed up with the
other one earlier.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
Well. Yes, Tough Turf is Downy Junior and him starting
a new high school and he gets bullied and then
fights them all in a warehouse at the end with
a drum kit. And then The New Kids, which follows
on from Tough Turf. He plays the bully and he
wears that blue Cowboys shirt with the white piping and

(28:02):
drives around in a pickup truck with his like leering
buddies who are like you, and yes that one is better. Yes, yes,
and it's uh, it's Laurie Laughlin, who had obviously become
famous for paying to haven a kid get into university.
And then it's Shannon Presby because that's a person who

(28:26):
I've never heard of at all, but did do one
of the voices on Cowboy Bebop. Okay, the animes. So
it's written by Stephen Gillen Hall. Is he the father
of well, how many gill and Holes are there in
the world. Let's have a look.

Speaker 3 (28:45):
Oh yes, I liked New Kids more than tough Turf.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
Okay, so get this, and I liked his hair quite
The New Kids is written by Maggie yarn Hole's dad,
and years later in Secretary, can you imagine being Stephen
General Hall and being like I wrote for that punk
kid back in the eighties. And now he's all over

(29:15):
my daughter like a like a soggy rash, like a
like a moistened robe or something, you know what I mean?
Where you go? Kids? He has pretended to pleasure himself
against the buttocks of my daughter, which I have to say,

(29:40):
if that's the case, well it is the case. Stephen
Jener Hall is the father of Jack and Maggie general.
That's I had never put that together before, but that's
quite a wonderful revelation this late in my sleepy Spader
knowledge star Crossed it was another TV movie but basically
has to fucking alien woman or something. What was your

(30:02):
memories of StarCraft? If none? Scarves and poolhalls? That's all
I remember? Uh? Pretty in Pink washed again recently? Right?

Speaker 3 (30:11):
Okay, he needs more Spader. Basically, it needs to be
him and needs more of him, needs more of what's
her name Janine from Ghostbusters?

Speaker 2 (30:20):
Oh? Yes, Annie Potts needs less, completely less of John
Cryer crier And is that bit it's.

Speaker 3 (30:28):
Not venable to Spader. Is that bit where Potts gifts
what's it called world her dress?

Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yes, which she completely fucking ruins ruins. Yeah, I'm not.
I'm not a fan of that. Here's what I think
about pretty and pink. Pretty in Pink to me? Is
you know how bad the end of the Breakfast Club is.
I love the Breakfast Club. I absolutely love it. And
the very end with Judd Nelson fist pump because he
walks away iconic. But the ending where they take Alie Sheedy,

(30:57):
who was incredibly attractive as like a fucked up goth
and then make her look like, I don't know, God
knows what like I mean, I honestly, they don't make
her look attractive. They don't make in any way at
all make her look attractive. At the end of the movie.
I have such a visceral reaction to the fact that

(31:18):
that's even part of that film. I feel like it
ruins everything that film is trying to say about youth
identity and whatever. I feel like, pretty and Pink is
the end of the Breakfast Club just stretched out over
a whole movie, Because I'm like, if you think I'm
watching this movie and I want Ducky to end up

(31:38):
with Ringwold, I mean, are you insane? Like there's nothing
interesting about Ducky at all. And look, I'm not gonna
say that I wasn't at some point in my life
probably a bit of a Ducky. I probably was, meaning
I wore a lot of ludicrous clothing and lusted after
women who would never ever gi me the time of day.
I'm not gonna say that it is an act. I'm

(32:00):
just going to say that I don't want to watch.

Speaker 4 (32:02):
It on Yeah, it's not what I want to say,
I want to see Spader, Yes, Spader.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
Pots yeah, because he shows up and is like soft
top car with his cigarette hanging out of his mouth
and his pale blue suit with his floppy hair, and
you just go, well, Ringwold would I mean Ringwold would
strip naked right there, and then it would be like,
take me in the grass of the high school, because

(32:26):
there's no way on earth that any woman would be like, no,
give me Andrew McCarthy, who is as bland as a
sheet of cardboard.

Speaker 4 (32:34):
It's the point that I'd even forgotten the McCarthy element
there at Night.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
Right, yeah, because he's so I like McCarthy in Sonama's Fire,
and I like McCarthy Weekend at Bernie's. But for some reason,
in Pretty Pink, he's the dullest man who ever existed.
He's almost up there with Jim and I used to
like to say that the blandest man in show business
was Mark Blucas, who is a very little known actor

(32:58):
who was on three seasons of Buffy towards the end
as one of her love interests. And he's the blandest man.
He's weirdly in Night and Day, The Tom Cruise Cameron
Diaz movie, and you're just like who decided? But Bluecas
said that, Well, McCarthy is pure Bluecus in Pretty and Pink.

(33:19):
So I've no time for it at all, And I
agree with you. I think it's one of the big
missteps of.

Speaker 4 (33:24):
John Hughes's career. It's not a film I'd have watched it.
It wasn't for sad, I would never have seen it.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
No, of course that. But did you hear our fan
theory that we think the Spader of Pretty and Pink
is the same Spader in Less Than Zero. I think
that's the same character because essentially he's this sort of
machiavellian rich kid who's sort of screwing with the lives
of lesser beings, and that's sort of what he is

(33:49):
in both movies to some extent. Okay, mannikin one of
my favorite Spader performances. I think he's him doing that
because it's very pythonesque performance, feel like he's got the
slick downsk I think I think he saw Santa Claus,
a movie without a dad.

Speaker 3 (34:06):
Oh, is that what you're thinking is following its two
years after?

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Or yeah?

Speaker 3 (34:10):
But yeah, he saw Lyftgo and Santa Claus movie.

Speaker 2 (34:12):
And okay, I'll have to watch You Be the One
with Dudley Moore. And yes, I have not seen that
literally since it came out, so I haven't seen that. Okay, okay,
So it's a Christmas East. I love that the LUNs
sitting down around do you have a half? There's no heart?
The TV itself acts as a heart. Yes, with Lithgow

(34:35):
and Dudley Moore. Wonderful, wonderful. That's a what a what
a warming image. That's beautiful. Well, I haven't seen that.
So when I saw Mannekin, I thought of it more
as sort of it's very Terry Jones ish his performance
in it to me, and I loved that. I think
it's one of his best performances. I'm a big fan
of cult Kim Coatrell movies, so I love her in

(34:57):
Porky's and Police Academy and Akin and Split Second, Yes,
and Big Trouble in China. Of course she's in Star
Trek six. She had a run and then sex and
the city to me ruined Katrel for me, not for her,
but for me, like for her, it was a huge
payday for me. I'm like Coatrell, you were on the
started well, but then it went Yeah, so Mannequin, I

(35:19):
think big points for me. I would give Mannequin quite ridiculous.
But now Baby Boom, this is another sleazy Office Litharia role.
Right before Diane Keith moves out to the country, he's
in it for like a hot second.

Speaker 4 (35:33):
I had decided not to watch Baby Boom ever again,
right after the last time.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
It's not good. No, no, not for me. But he's
in it for like two minutes, right, Yes, And it's
weird that after something like The New Kids, Tough Turf
and Star Cross that he goes back to playing bit
parts in bigger movies. Yeah, but you know, yeah, continuing
that trend. We have less than zero. I love that.

(35:58):
I'm I'm in two minds about the movie, but I
think he's very good in it.

Speaker 3 (36:03):
I think memory, I love it. That's the Yeah, that's
the I like that.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
You know, he makes Robert Danny Junior blow people for cat,
blow people for drugs. He's like, you'll you'll do blowies
right for for crack. Then we have Wall Street. I
mean he's barely in Wall Street? Right? Is he in
Wall Street? Very much?

Speaker 3 (36:22):
Is he in Wall Street?

Speaker 2 (36:23):
Apparently? Okay, but he's not one of the main three.
He's got Douglas Sheen and whoever the other one is.
So we'll skirt over that. Jacks back though, now he's
now he's back in leading role, and I had a
lot of fun with Jack's back. I enjoyed Jack's Back immensely.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
I think I think I did.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
Yes, I mean I only gave it three stars, but
I think it was a strong three stars.

Speaker 3 (36:48):
Yeah, that's the one with it. Yeah, with the two,
but he's there twice.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yes, you get two for the price of one. And
what could you want? Sex Lizing videotape again, love Spader,
but it doesn't. It almost mutes his sleeves a little bit. Yeah,
I guess so, because you sort of wanted to go
full like erotic at a certain point and it doesn't.

(37:14):
It's a lot of him sitting around talking. Yeah, and
you sort of want it to be pervier than it
is because you're not. You call the movie sex liize
and videotapes, and every fourteen year old boy in the
country is like, great, let's rent sexualizes every When I
first watched it, I guess, well, because they're talking about
pervy things. But you really want to see them doing

(37:35):
pervy things, and they don't do that. Son Aberg. You
know he wents your whistle but doesn't give you a
full meal. I think, yeah, and I'm bothered by that
as a bit of a sleeze partner, but not to
take it away. I mean it's bad. And you know,
I've been a fan of the only fan of I think.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
A lot of people don't.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
Well, she's not a good actor, no, but she's beautiful
and she's been in some great movies. Yeah, she's in
The Player, which is one of my favorite movies. She's
in groundhog Day.

Speaker 3 (38:10):
Yes, uh, I can live with that. For weddings, she's.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
The weak linking groundhog Day, but she's in groundhog Day.
I think my favorite thing about Andy McDowell is in
Space when Mike, the Nick Frost character is going to
try out again for the TA. He's trying to get
back into the TA. He's in the waiting room before
he goes into the meeting with the head of the thing,

(38:36):
and he's he's trying to psych himself up, and he goes,
I'm Andy McNabb and then he goes he goes, I'm
Andy McNabb and then he goes, I'm Andy McDowell, ship,
and it's it's him being he's trying to be like
Andy McNabb, the guy who obviously uh. And then he goes,
I'm Andy McDowell. He goes ship and it's just the way.
It's my favorite line in Space, The Rage Your Papers Again,

(39:01):
can anyone explain? Like the Rachel Papers is a weird one.
I remember my sister renting it way back when Dexter
Fletcher is the main character, and he looks twelve and
has looked twelve for like thirty years until now, and
he in it. He has a lot of cavorting around

(39:22):
with Ioni Sky. Yes. My problem with this movie, therefore,
is how on earth does a casting agent go, Well,
we'll have Dexter Fletcher as the main guy, and Spader
is just the American go drops in and out for
like thirty seconds. No, you have Ioni Sky either that

(39:43):
or if you want it to make, if you want
to explain why Spader and the woman are in England
rather than in America, cast an English actress cast like
a bit of English. Totti is the main one. Have
Spader having all the sex scenes, but have Dexter Fletcher
as the boyfriend who shows up and everyone hates because
I don't want to watch a movie where Dexter Fletcher

(40:04):
and Ione Sky get naked. I have no interest in
that at all. He again, he's only in it for
like five minutes and it's very, very weird. So not
interested in that one. Bad Influence. That's the Low one.
If that's the more of a weirdo in that isn't
he he is? So that's there are another through line

(40:26):
of a lot of Spader films is one person manipulating
another person. So for example, we covered Shadow of Fear recently,
he's the manipulator in that one. But in Bad Influence,
Low is manipulating Spader. So Spaeder is not a complete

(40:46):
office at the beginning of the movie, but he's certainly
a little naive, but then kind of gets taken on
this sort of Faustian journey almost with Low being kind
of the devil tricks during his ear and him being
and that Spader's sort of slowly becoming embroiled in Do
you have any memories of that White Palace? I think

(41:10):
at the time we took about White Palace, what was
your feeling like? I'll tell you my friend.

Speaker 3 (41:16):
Yeah, it's a no, isn't it. It's kind of it
seems to be.

Speaker 4 (41:21):
It's more of a big Hollywood one where it's meant
to be, you know, a big sort of sexual thing.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
But well, it's based it's based on a book written
by a Jewish guy about being a nebbish Jewish guy
in a Jewish fraternity who lost after women but never
gets them. And then he meets a broken older like
diner waitress who always wanted to be Marilyn Monroe, but

(41:47):
it's just a broken diner waitress, and they start a
love affair. Neither Spader nor Surrandon like Spader's not nebbish
and nerdly enough and Sarandon is not broken enough. She's
too attractive and volumptuous, and he's too attractive and waspy.

(42:10):
Who's the casting agent who when they go, oh, it's
a book about a Jewish fraternity, Well, we've got to
get that well known jew Now if you've cast Mandy
Petenken or something that would, I don't know, is potent
and Jewish. I feel like he could at least pass
for Jourish, even if he's not. But he's of the era.
He's of the age he could have. But when you
see Spader walking along with George Costanza, Jason Alexander is

(42:34):
his best friend, I'm like, no, these two don't go together,
Like it just doesn't work. So that was my white pass.
Is great because during a sex scene, Spader Waft's stale
sandwich in his face, which is absolutely glorious. Yes, I
also heard someone review it once where they said Spader
spends the entire movie going down on Sarandon. Now there's

(42:56):
only one kind of linger scene in the whole movie,
but that person clearly stopped watching. He just True Colors
I just covered with mo Pond, so we'll be talking
about that. In fact, by the time this episode airs,
people will have just heard me talk about it. True Colors,

(43:18):
I feel, is the anti Spader because it's the one
movie which has so little sleevez in it. Cusack just
sucks the sleeves out of the room.

Speaker 4 (43:30):
Ah.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
But it is True Colors does start Spaders political because
obviously Boston Legal is very political. True Colors is political.
The Pedican papers, which we're going to talk about in
a minute, are very political. Bob Roberts obviously political. The
storyville he plays a would be a politician, So I

(43:56):
feel like there's a little I think there's he's looked
for through lines. I think that's something story that I
have no memory of. But it's basically him playing kind
of a Kennedy, like a southern politician who gets in
broad and a sex scandal. Very vague, right, but again
it's sort of a Then he does the Music of Chance,

(44:19):
which is really the weirdest of that's the thing, Uhurning,
mment Wash, Mandy Petenkin and James Spader. They are too.
They're in a car accident. They wind up in a big,
stately home and two old men I think like kidnap

(44:43):
them and force them to build a wall.

Speaker 3 (44:45):
Yes, that's correct. Yes, it seems that's some kind of
Beckett kind of thing, doesn't it right?

Speaker 2 (44:50):
Exactly? Yes, It's sort of got a waiting for god
oh type feel to it, and it shouldn't work, but
it weirdly does. I seem to quite enjoy I seem
to remember quite enjoying it a little bit. I think
I half enjoyed it for a moment. I don't know,
but it's it is. It's an odd one. I mean,
of all his career, it's it's a little. He doesn't

(45:13):
do a lot of existential, you know, angsty art films,
and that was one. What have we got? We've got
dream Lover. It's it's meant to be sort of a
fatal attraction type of thing. It doesn't really work. I
don't think she's wonderful and he's wonderful, but I think
when she turns the tables on him, he's not very

(45:37):
good at playing that. He's not good at playing desperate.
And I think that's what bothered me about the film.
Like I seem to remember a scene at the end
where she's in a institution or something. He visits her
and she's like blackmailing him by a tree or something,
and he's meant to like spaz out of it, but
he doesn't. I felt like he couldn't play. I don't

(45:58):
know why I have that memory in my head. But wonderful.
I mean, if you want to see two pretty people,
you know, have glossy mid nineties or early nineties nookie, Yeah,
then you're there, then you're there Wolf wonderful, wonderful, But
my favorite Nicholson there as well. I mean, Spader versus
Nicholas is a fantastic with Fifer and Spader gets to

(46:20):
be a bit of a werewolf stuff.

Speaker 4 (46:23):
The wolf stuff is it is maybe a bit silly,
but then that's werewolf movie.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
Surely. I love Nicholson bounding through the wood where his sideburns.
I think it's absolutely tremendous. I would have loved to
have seen more bounding Spader. There isn't enough bounding or slithering.

Speaker 3 (46:42):
And the bit with the bathroom scene.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
Right, maybe he could have become a wear lissen. Yes,
Spader could have become like Creature of the Black Lagoon
except pervy. Yeah, well, the Creature of the Black lagoon's
a little because he goes after the woman. But imagine basically,
Spader's skin goes all scaly except for his face. Because
you can't cover up the you can't cover up space. Yes, uh, stargy,

(47:13):
it's fine.

Speaker 3 (47:14):
Yeah, I don't think i've seen this in cinema.

Speaker 2 (47:16):
I saw it in the cinema, and I don't think
i've seen it since. I think the expectation of Spader
Russell in a big rollan emeric sci fi epic should
yield more than it actually does when you watch it.
Although I think again it's another movie that hinges on
Spader having sex with aliens. Isn't there one point where
he's held up as like a conquering heroes of Africa?

Speaker 3 (47:38):
As I say, it came out mid nice, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
I haven't seen it since then, So we've got crash
crash crash is good. It's certainly that's where Spader is
just like, oh, this is it. The sleez is on.
There's no there's no hiding it. At this point. I
am a disturbing cinematic presence. Yes, and everyone from the

(48:00):
mid nineties onwards just have to deal with it. Uh, Driftwood.
We've kind of spoken about Keis To Tulsa. Hands down
the word like Keitha Tulta and slow Burn are my
two worst Spader films of all time. I couldn't tell
you what happens in either of them, although I think

(48:21):
Keister Tulsa he wears a tracksuit. That's what I remember. Okay, Oh, yes, yes, yes,
I think you're and isn't Keys to Tulsa and both
slow Burn one of the few times Spader has dark hair.
He dyes his hair dark and has a mustache. I believe,
so he doesn't Telsa. Yes, definitely, yes, and I think

(48:44):
I think by dyeing his hair black, he has he
has ruined whatever essence Spader has on screen, because I'm
not I'm not a fan of that one at all.

Speaker 7 (48:57):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
I've seen slow Burn Critical Care we just covered. Yeah,
I didn't like.

Speaker 3 (49:03):
The first time, but the rewatcht I did.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
Enjoy it well because yeah, I think it's it's an
odd satire because it's not like it's odd tonally, because
it's not a laugh a minute satire. It doesn't make
its point particularly strongly. There are some very effective scenes,

(49:26):
but I seem to remember it veering from cartoonish nonsense
with Albert Brooks two kind of quite uh quite heart
wrench and I feel like it didn't manage the ups and.

Speaker 4 (49:44):
Downs of that particular and as you said, the opportunity
of the Spader.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
In a film and neither of them like it's just yeah,
it's unforgivable. It all came true. Or Curtain Call, which
is the infamous.

Speaker 3 (49:58):
I've spoken about. I love when I watch it, and
it was a YouTube version.

Speaker 2 (50:01):
I thought it was wonderful. I liked it. I didn't
like it enough to defend it against Gym's constant Attack,
but I liked it at its criminal it's not available
in the UK. I can't it.

Speaker 4 (50:14):
Is it Maggie Smith as well, and Michael okay, and
the and the lady from Line of Duty Jill from
Line of Duty?

Speaker 2 (50:23):
Okay, I don't know. That's the I need that.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
I need a copy of it.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
Super Nova, which I feel like, you know, like that
documentary about the Superman movie that never was, which I
still haven't seen again in the UK. Yeah, it's very
good available, I think, No, no, I think I think
I donated to it and got a digital copy or whatever.

(50:49):
But Supernova is a movie that requires a full blown
documentary about it because it's Francis Ford, Coppler and war
To Hill all right who put it together, but they're
not who ultimately ended up making and delivering the movie.

(51:12):
I don't know the full story behind it, and I'm
aching for the full story behind it. It's Spader, Robin Tunney, Bassett,
who's one of my for Angela Bassett, who yes, not
the sweet, not the sweet, not the weird man made
out of liquorice, all swords yet Jack's shoulder is the
one finally, and he's finishes thee to yes known for

(51:37):
the hidden Elmstreeen two Alone in the Dark Jack Shoulder.
He finally finishes it off, but it was mounted by
Walter Hill and Francis from but stuff happened behind the scenes,
so I would love to know about that. Peter Fassenelli
is the other actor, and it's the guy who famously
played did he play a eunuch in one of the movies?

(52:00):
Foster Lou Diamond Phillips. I feel like it was meant
to be a sci fi film that was meant to
be like a huge deal, and then something fell through
and it kind of limped straight to video sort of thing.
That's what it was. But I want to know more
about it. With the spot of sci fi, maybe off
the back of Stargate, yes, but I think Super and

(52:22):
Over is one that I think is right for Rediscovery.
I think I need to go back and watch it again.
Then we get The Watcher, which is Ves playing a
bad guy. It's a mess of a film. It's not
particularly wonderful. It's certainly of all his straight to video
he's playing a detective or playing a whatever lawyer or
whatever it's. It's at least, you know, in the top

(52:46):
ten it's like it's watchable. The watcher is watchable, but
it's I'm not going to say it's a great movie.
Then we have slow Burn, and speaking of I mean
slow Burn is awful. I just it's it's interminable. It's
Spader a mini driver, and I cannot really abide drive.
She's sort of one of those that I'm just like,

(53:07):
who the fuck gave her? Any time of day, I
will give her gross point blank. I think in gross
point blank, I think she's really playing to her strengths.
But from what I remember is herents made a walk
around the desert shouting at each other, and then I
fell asleep. It was not a good movie. Speaking of
sex is like Americans do carry on, right, That's basically

(53:28):
what it is. Not very good at all. Then we
get Secretary, which is probably his crowning achievement in terms
of putting the sleeves on Front Street, and as we said,
gets to rub up against the daughter of the man
he once acted for years the stick up. Now I
remember quite enjoying the sticks. Yes, he also has a

(53:52):
bathtub sequence, which is quite See what the things I
remember from each movie not the plot. It's all to
do with did Spader get it on with the stick up?
Is great? Then we come to the Pentagon Papers, and
we just watched the Pentagon Papers today. I had never

(54:12):
seen it before or didn't know anything about it. And
I know quite a lot of American history, and I
know quite a lot of especially around sort of the
sixties and seventies and the sort of JFK. Vietnam stuff.
I've seen all those movies, and I feel like Vietnam,
especially as a movie that's sorry, a war that's done

(54:33):
almost to death at this point, and everyone's had their
own take on it. This was based on essentially a
very big long document that was drawn up by multiple
sort of think tanks and government organizations and Da Da
Da Da da that basically says, well, the wars are sham,

(54:56):
but don't tell anyone kind of thing, or the war's
a loser and don't tell anyone. And it sort of
explains that for presidents in a row understood that it
was a loser, yet still weirdly went ahead and tried
to wage it even though they knew full well that
what they were doing was not right. Spader, this is

(55:20):
a unique movie because Spader plays a real life person.
He uh, perms or curls or wigs up or has
extensions or something. His hair in quite a ridiculous buffine way.
And when you see the real guy in the video
footage at the air, it's accurate, it's quasi accurate. But

(55:42):
he didn't have the height or the weight. He had
the curls, but he was much thinner.

Speaker 4 (55:47):
Spader would want to go further, yes, Spader Water Spader.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
Was like, the most I'll do to look like this
guy that I look nothing like is I'll have some
curly hair. That's about it, definitely. And what's funny was
I feel like as we were watching it, you and
I were both like, well, this looks like just a cheap,
made for TV movie. It didn't strike us as particularly accurate.

(56:13):
That there was not much attempt to make the period
seem Yeah, it didn't look like the sixties at all,
Like when you think of JFK. And I understand that
JFK has set both in the sixties and then later
because the Garrison cases not later. But it seems very authentic.

Speaker 4 (56:36):
Yeah, whether we were in sport, but we've been sport
by mad men, right, that's very authentic. And all the
set design and production values. This was cheaper, right, This
wasn't made for FX, and I think it was. I
mean it was two thousand and three. I don't know
when FX started as a network.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
Unto itself, it's sort of the adult HBO version of Fox. Right,
So Fox is Fox is now mainly known for Fox News,
but Fox News is its own entity. You have twentieth
century Fox. Then you had like the Fox Network, which
was along with ABC, NBC and CBS, the four public

(57:17):
owned networks that used they were the four like BBC one,
Misery to Writing Me and Channel four. They were like
the four networks. And then FX was sort of the
slightly more adult, slightly more take a chance kind of
cable channel that came out of Fox. I don't know

(57:37):
when it started, but I get the feeling that this
is early on in it's career, right because now FX
does like American horror story. I think it did where
it did Louis before CK got canceled. But round about

(57:58):
the time that AMC was doing mad Men and Walking Dead,
FX suddenly was like, oh, we need to get and
then they started doing more series two thousand and three,
though it was pretty early, I think I feel like
there wasn't the money there, but it does have a
pretty starry cast. You get Gamatti as his sort of

(58:21):
hippie radical friend. You get Alan Arkin as his uh
nice bow tie again, Alan Arkin, who even back in
two thousand and three was still playing like the old
professorial type. I feel like Alan Arkin played like the
young naive whipper snapper boob for like the first half

(58:44):
of his career, and in the second half of his
career he's just played like cuddly old uncle allan kind
of thing. And I love Alan Arkin. I think Alan
Arkin is fantastic. And he actually was Emmy nominated for
this role. The only person in the whole cast who
was Emmy nominated. I guess no, I guess not. He
didn't win. He was nominated and he didn't win. Spader

(59:09):
as the main guy, Dan Ellison or I think so, yeah,
what usual playing in No Daniel Ellsberg, so Dan Elsburg.
We get Claire Fullani. Yes, sort of a drift in
the late nineties early two thousands are sort of why
is anyone putting her and stuff? But they did. They

(59:32):
continued to try. It's like I was saying recently about
who's that guy they keep trying to put in stuff
that I fucking hate Glenn Powell, Like we stopped making
Glen Powell a thing, and Claire Fullani was one of
those like nineties early two thousands actresses, and I was like,
we don't need to make her a thing. She's completely

(59:53):
forgettable in this completely completely you need And it's but
it's also interesting because I think that the bit of
information that we need to always remind ourselves is that
Spader went in Massachusetts growing up, palled around with John
Kennedy Jr. And so I feel like, not only with

(01:00:13):
his politics, but also with some of the films he does.
I think he likes kind of playing around in that
uber because she's sort of a bit Jackie Oish a
little right, do you know what I'm saying here? I
think a little bit so Anon Arkin, Claire Ful, Arnie Spader,

(01:00:35):
Paul Giamatti, who else? Oh your your your Welsh change Welsh? Yeah, yeah,
who you love? But not being very.

Speaker 4 (01:00:44):
You know, he's an actor that I can do stuff,
you know, and that is oh he was very short changed.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
Was just there. It could have been anyone. I mean, really,
only Sprader and Geomatty really get to do anything, both
have strange hair, both have very strange chair. They've decided
that they want to go for full scullet for Gmatt
where he has the long hair down the back and
balled up the front. And I'm just Reggie Banister from

(01:01:12):
Fantastic can pull it off. And a man who went
on to become a governor of somewhere who was in Jesse, Ventura,
the wrestler who was in government Minnesota, Minnesota, right, Ventura
can pull it off. Not many people can pull off
the scullet. And Gmatt not pulling it off. And it's

(01:01:35):
always one of those things where I feel like a
costume designer and a makeup artist. If you know, he
put on his costume and then he went across the
makeup and he put on his makeup. When he stepped
out of the makeup trailer, didn't everyone in the ku
go come on, you can't put you can't put that
on screen?

Speaker 4 (01:01:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
Serious, you know what I'm saying. Sometimes I want these
movies and I go, who okayed that it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:03):
Wasn't even I mean Reggie Banister's banister. That's yeah, that's
his hair.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
But that's kind of that's the limit of acceptability of
that kind of do.

Speaker 4 (01:02:15):
Yes, yes, they were going for that, I think, but
they should have just got.

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
Should have Reg would have been great in this role.
I love Geo Matty, but Reg would I mean get
around Reg and Spader like it would have been wonderful.
What is mostly odd about this film is when we
finished it, I read up a bunch of the trivia
and apparently Daniel Welsberg is a real guy who you know,
really did he basically photo copied some top secret documents

(01:02:46):
because he was so offended by what was happening with
the Wars, shot them to the New York Times and
the Washington Post. The Tricky Dicky the Richard Nixon tried
to shut down both papers from publishing it. The Supreme
Court says, no, no, no, no, no, you cannot infringe

(01:03:07):
the rights of a free press, so they are able
to publish the rest of them. And then the judge
in Spader's case basically calls a mistrial. Yeah, that makes
Spader go free. Even if Spader's on the hook for treason,
possible life imprisonment, et cetera, et cetera, he just gets off.

(01:03:28):
And it almost doesn't sound like a true story in
that sense. Does it right. Well, this was my problem
with it is that it ends with a whimper, not
a bang. Yeah, there is no you know, the thing
that's amazing about JFK is we don't know who killed JFK.
Yet you come away from that movie going oh, I know,

(01:03:49):
you know, like you come away from that movie going
oh it just even as you get but once you
get older you kind of go, oh, that's ridiculous and
that's nonsense, and all of us don't made that up.
But that's a bunch of lies, and that's exaggerated truth,
and that's Hollywood bullshit. You still love the movie because
there's enough energy to it. There's just an every five
minutes there's a Tommy D. Jones or a Jack Lemon

(01:04:10):
or a and they've all got a tasty scene to like.
Jack Lemmon at the at the Racetrack is a tasty scene.
Donald Sutherland in DC is a tasty scene. The last
forty minutes in the courthouse with Kevin Costa grandstanding about
the magic, but it's a tasty scene to the back
and to the left right. You know, I remember being

(01:04:32):
a teenager watching JFK and finishing it and being like
when those documents become you know, in the end, it
says like the documents have become public knowledge, and soon whatever,
I go when they become public, I'm going to Americ Like.
I got really excited. I got very excited about it. Obviously,

(01:04:53):
now that I'm an adult and I know how bureaucracy works,
and you know how governments are culpable and also hollow
and villainous, most of them, you know, I don't care
as much. But back then it was you get to
the end of the Pentagon papers, you go, well, that
was the thing that that happened. Nice hair, nice hair,

(01:05:13):
good hair. I like the hair, and I suppose it's
I understand the point of the film. You know, descent
does not mean disloyal or whatever or whatever that phrase is,
don't you know. Don't confuse treason with descent or whatever

(01:05:34):
it or don't confuse hating your or descent with hating
your country or whatever it is. But it's not an
interesting enough character study. It's not an interesting enough study
of the times. Yeah, I don't know. You you tell me,
what do you? What did you? I mean?

Speaker 4 (01:05:54):
I hated it the first time. I'm not sure I've
actually finished it. I was bored of it. Okay, I
enjoyed it this time. I think because of the hair.
The hair is because I was watching it with you, yes,
and we could discuss it. I think watched on my
own the first time, and yeah, oh yeah, so difficult
to watch.

Speaker 3 (01:06:11):
If you want to enjoy it, then you know, enjoy the.

Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
Hair and watch with you is boring. Otherwise it is boring.
And it's boring I think because it does it tell
us something new. I don't know how whether it tells
us something new, I mean it does to some extent.

(01:06:34):
I think it was a little revelation to me that
there were I had never First of all, I'd never
heard of the Pentagon Papers, like I've never heard of which,
considering that someone who prides themselves as knowing quite a
lot about American history and Vietnam and JFK in that
whole era especially, I find it odd that I've never

(01:06:56):
heard of them. Ah, isn't it?

Speaker 3 (01:07:00):
Only it's been in the Pentagon Papers and the Rachel
Papers and.

Speaker 2 (01:07:02):
The Rachel Papers. One of the trivia on the Pentagon
Paper is James Brader also starred in the movie with
a similar name title The Rachel Papers, and neither of
them have anything to do with each other at all.
But yes, he has started in two movies that end
with the word papers. If he'd start in the Paper,

(01:07:22):
he would it would have been a trifecta. But with
Michael Douglas. But yeah, it's a weird one because I'm
kind of well, it is interesting to know that the
presidency was because at one point he says, it's not
the government, it's the office, meaning the Senate and the

(01:07:44):
House weren't part of it. It was very much the presidency.
You know, whether it was Eisenhower or Johnson or Nixon
or Kennedy, it was them pushing for it for their
own political ends rather than it being a it's not

(01:08:07):
a conspiracy. It's not thousands of people covering stuff up.
It's like, you know, a few guys at the very
top covering it up. And I suppose that's an interesting
bit of information. I mean, not that I didn't think
that the presidency was corrupt. I know it is, or
at least compromised, but to have it confirmed is interesting.

(01:08:31):
I think what's weird is we got to the end
of the movie and thought, well, okay, that was sort
of a cheap TV version of like JFK Light was
sort of how he took it. Yet when you read
the trivia, and again I don't know how much this
is accurate, but when you read the trivia, the producer
who didn't reach out to any of the real people

(01:08:52):
until after the movie was made, the producer when he
showed it to Daniel Elsberg. Apparently Daniel Ellsberg was take
first of all. Dan Elsburg's autobiography, which did come out
shortly after this movie, was not out when they made
the movie. But the producer was very sure to try

(01:09:16):
and make some things weirdly accurate in the point that apparently,
and again I say apparently, the sequences in Vietnam that
when we watched them, we thought they were hilarious because
it looked like they were just running around some woodland
in California or whatever. Apparently the producer went as far
as to figure out times of day that he was

(01:09:40):
in the bush fighting, the way people are dressed, the
topography of the location. Things that were said like, apparently
Ellsberg watched the Vietnam sequences that we openly laughed at yes,
and said they were one one of the most accurate

(01:10:01):
things he'd ever seen, which I don't know if he's
selling and saying that to try and sell the movie,
or if it's true. But isn't that baffling having watched it?

Speaker 3 (01:10:12):
Or was he high as a kite at the time.

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
I don't know because people don't know this. But years ago,
when I finished sixth from college, I made sorry when
I finished university. Rather, I made a featuring comedy movie
called Zombie exclamation Mark and in it because I wanted
my friends to play ridiculous American soldiers and I wanted

(01:10:37):
to do a bunch of jokes about Americans and stuff. Also,
I wanted to get guns in the film, and there's
no way to do guns in England back then. I
know now there are more guns because I see armed
police in London all the time, but back in the
day there were armed response units, but there wasn't guns
in England in the same way. So like Sewan and

(01:10:58):
The Dead, no one's like shooting zombies until they pulled
a gun down in the Winchester. In my movie which
came up, which I wrote before Sunately Dead, I was like, well,
I can't have my students on the run from zombies
wielding guns and things. But maybe I'll have like a
troop of American soldiers who were like dropped into this
zombie infestation to kind of stop it from becoming an outbreak.

(01:11:23):
But the idea was that the Americans would send the
most useless of salt, like they so didn't care about
England that they just sent a hodgepodge of weirdos to defend.
And in the midst of all this, my friend John Wallace,
who was playing the main sergeant of the little troop

(01:11:46):
of American soldiers, has a flashback about Vietnam, because of
course he does, because of course he wanted to do
a flashback about Vietnam. And we just went into the
woods around high Wickham with him in like fatigues and
film and you know, we put it in black and
white whatever. We had him walking through the thing with
a plastic gun or whatever, you know, because whatever. When

(01:12:08):
we the only uson bringing this up. When I watched
the present papers, I was like, that's basically what I
did making Zombie was I just got a bunch of
people in We went down to the local army surplus
stall at the market. We used to have a sating
market in town and it had a little army surplus store,

(01:12:30):
and I just bought the cheapest ship. They had a
few green things, a few camouflage things, a little hat thing,
and a couple of you know, gun holders and things
like that and little canteens. And that's that's what we think.
And we just filmed it in black and whites and
walking through some some woodland that had kind of hanging vines,

(01:12:52):
so that it looked a little bit more Asian, I suppose,
or Asian topography rather than the high Wickmans. And that's
how I felt about the Pentagon papers. Yet here's Daniel Ellsberg,
who literally went out into the killing fields for six
months and said it was the most accurate picture he'd

(01:13:13):
ever seen. I'm like, have you seen Apocalypset? Have you
seen Platoon? Have you seen? Like? Did he watch those
movies and be nice? I think you think that's what
it was. I think he's just being nice as nice
as he could about it. He also claims he did
mentioned the hair. He never mentioned the hair, well, not

(01:13:33):
in the trivia on IMDb. I would have to dive deeper,
and I'm not sure I'm prepared to know he did
say that the other scene that was spooky accurate. Because
he's still with his wife Cleavl and his character Patricia
in the film, who again weirdly has a boyfriend. At
one minute shows up at Spader's apartner, sleeps with him,

(01:13:54):
and then we never.

Speaker 3 (01:13:56):
See him again. Now that's the power of Spade.

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
Yeah. But also the guy had a line like why
pay that actor to have a line? Like just get
him out of the scene. Because one thing, if someone's
silent on set, you only have to pay them per
diem or whatever like the you know, whatever, you pay them.
But if someone says a line, they're then a featured
extra and they get a little I would have he

(01:14:20):
has one line. I would have knocked him on the head.
Guy whoever this producer was, was very liberal apparently with
his spending. There was a scene at the very beginning
where of course Beader goes to a big, stately home
and of course, a bit of totty walks across the
crowded room, and of course Bader's like, well, hello, my dear,

(01:14:46):
like the American Terry Torris that he is, and that
was fulani uh and he's still married to her. But
apparently in that scene, even though the producer apparent he
never contacted yeah, Elsmoke didn't read his there was no
biography or anything. Yet apparently that scene and their dialogue

(01:15:09):
Patricia and him were watching it went how the hell
did they know what? We said? Yeah, and thought it
was incredibly accurate. So for something that to me looked
like a fairly cheap TV knockoff of JFK was apparently,
according to the man who was there, the most accurate
depiction of America in the nineteen sixties.

Speaker 4 (01:15:30):
He either he's either making it up I think for
the you know, to try to provote thing, or maybe
some PTSD.

Speaker 2 (01:15:37):
I don't know, there's something going on there now. Spader
took the role probably for the politics, yeah, and the money,
but another film where he doesn't need to be and
yet throughout the movie a Latario Yes, to point where

(01:16:00):
even Gmatty shows up and says, you know, you could
take one of your latest conquests, like a Swedish air
stewardess or something, And I'm like, was this guy Like
It's the only thing that's not accurate about it is
that Spader brought his sleeves to Elsburg and Ellsberg was like, yeah,

(01:16:22):
make me look sleeky. Yeah, we saw the real guy
I think I don't see him loosing its way through Saigon.
What about the fact that in Sigmon he shows up
in Saigon and every single one of his friends or
people he's met thing he showed up and Gemmatty was

(01:16:45):
there and I'm like what, And then you had Fulani
shows up because she's doing a radio show just happens
the only broadcast in New York. Like, it's not even
a syndicated national radio show. She's not even a real journalist.
She just has She basically has this podcast, but in
New York, that's basically what she has. And she's there

(01:17:08):
surrounded by you know, six foot four, big chinned, muscular
navy and military soldiers interviewing them for whatever, probably swooning
over every single one, but no slightly pudgy, curly head
purslet Spader, and she's all over him like a cheap soup. Right. Yeah. So,

(01:17:32):
I mean, I don't know that I'll ever watch the
Pentagon Papers again, but interesting to know that Spader can
even I'm always interested that, even even when he's playing
a real person, and even when he's in like a
TV movie and can't go full bore crash or secretary. Yeah,
that he manages to bring the sleeves. Yeah, it's it's yeah,

(01:17:54):
it's it's unique to him. It's it's and it's what
we've come back for. That's what it is what we
come back for. So obviously there are a few more
Spader films that we could talk about, but I think
basically people get the idea, and I don't want to
go on too long, but I also want to short
change people. Just I just want to quickly, look, what

(01:18:16):
else have we got? I witness Alien Hunter, Shadow of Fear,
and then we get into like real bit parts like
shorts and Lincoln.

Speaker 3 (01:18:23):
Yeah, he gets a bit older.

Speaker 2 (01:18:25):
He's getting short changed, doesn't he.

Speaker 3 (01:18:27):
But he's in Boston Legal then, I.

Speaker 2 (01:18:28):
Mean yeah, once he starts TV does the practice. Yeah,
Baston Legal and then black The.

Speaker 3 (01:18:34):
Blacklist is a good decade, the thing, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (01:18:37):
It's at least ten seasons.

Speaker 3 (01:18:38):
Yeah, Yeah, a good sort of retirement.

Speaker 2 (01:18:42):
It's exactly ten years, twenty thirteen to twenty twenty three. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:18:46):
That ties in with Yeah that Spade the season in fourteen, right, and.

Speaker 2 (01:18:51):
So Shadow Fear we just covered, so I'm going to
go with that. So really I witness Alien Hunter and
I don't remember much about either of them. I Witness
has political.

Speaker 3 (01:19:00):
Yes, I think so. Yeah, all right, so Alien Hunters
more fun?

Speaker 2 (01:19:05):
Oh definitely. I mean Alien Hunter is basically like the
Thing without a budget, right, Yeah, it's sort of just
aliens possessing people. Is that I don't know? I know again,
he shows up at a space base and happens to
immediately better way, Yeah, like within five minutes of getting there,

(01:19:25):
Like he shows up the communion type thing, isn't it?
I think it's is it?

Speaker 3 (01:19:29):
I think it's similar to that in a kind of weird.

Speaker 2 (01:19:32):
But again, I feel like talking about all these films,
I just want to go rewatch them. I just want
to I just want to bask in the glow of space.

Speaker 3 (01:19:38):
Disappointing, it is quite a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:19:39):
Yes, I think that's what we're learning, is that although
the lure of yes, the lure of Sprader is there, but.

Speaker 3 (01:19:47):
The films he's in are not great a lot of
the time.

Speaker 2 (01:19:51):
But I think what I've learned, and we've talked about
this a lot in the last few days that you've
been visiting me, is that I think what I'm drawn
to and I think I'm learning this more and more
and more, it's not so much about the films these actors,
particular actors are in, whether it's Pleasants or Wingshauser or
even crystphal Lee, Peter Cushing and Spader, whoever, Pangrea, Angel Obassador, whoever.

(01:20:17):
It's it's that that Michael Murria, It's it's that their
presence on screen is unlike almost anything else you see.
There isn't even Saltzy and other people they don't know
Downy Jr. Or Rob Low or any of them, they don't.
Spader is an island unto himself. There just isn't another.

(01:20:41):
There isn't an actor I can think of that when
like in this movie, we see him one end of
the pool as a swimming pool. He's at a party,
at a gathering. He's at one end of a pool,
and you see a blonde woman at the other end
of the pool, and immediately across his face You're like, oh,
he's he's going in for the kill. Now. We then

(01:21:02):
find out that it's his wife, which hasn't been established
at all. But we even though there's nothing in the
script and there's nothing overtly, the camera just settles on
spadera and he goes from being normal Spader to being
like she is, and it just immediately becomes like this

(01:21:24):
wolf and lizard. I'm gonna possess that woman, you know
what I mean. And it's it's unlike anybody. There's no
one else that does. I can't think of another person
that when you're watching them, you go like, every time
there's so much is look at a look at a
woman on screen. I can't there was so I mean,

(01:21:47):
I don't know, but David Warner is always a little
weird and really sleazy, but he's definitely got that kind
of weirdness to him. But yes, Spader, and I think
that's just what I'm drawn to. I'm just drawn to
those kind of performers that have their own thing. So lastly,

(01:22:08):
what I was very happy about. I was googling a
bunch of things today about Spader, just to sort of
round it out, and I found this andy that I
thought you'd be interested in.

Speaker 8 (01:22:17):
The pro Teacher Community Forum right back in twenty September
twenty first, twenty fourteen. Course that's when I was doing
the quest right.

Speaker 2 (01:22:31):
Eliza Bennett, so obviously a PP fan a hint to
a private Prentice wrote a post is it weird that
I find James Spader sexy. I don't know why you're
posting that on the pro teacher community. Yep, but she is.
She says, now that he is bald and older, and

(01:22:55):
I didn't find him attractive when he was young and
thin and handsome. I don't like make him when he
was younger, brat pack actor, but now I find him
incredibly sexy on the Blacklist. Is that weird, Andy, I
ask you? Is that weird? Right? Someone said, no, I

(01:23:16):
feel the same way. He felt fake in his earlier years,
especially the roles he played, but now he feels comfortable
in his own skin and pretty sexy. Although his nostrils
are uneven, are they? I've noticed his eyes are uneven,
but his nostrils I've never noticed looked, particularly as his

(01:23:36):
eyes are uneven. So one eye looks straight on the other.
I ever, he's not bug eyed like Marty Feldman, but
ever so slightly the other eye looks off to the right.
Is looking an eye, Yes, it's probably the eye. That's
what it is, as Chris as a Cliff Richard sung about,

(01:23:57):
and that is why from the from thee yes, she says,
it's a good thing. Then she says, it's also a
good thing that I'm not a nostril woman. Okay, listen,
everything on this earth is a thing. I think. I

(01:24:18):
remember being at college and a guy who I was
at college with, who was an art major, who was
incredibly pretentious and likened himself as something of a daring
kind of goth s and m type, once showed me
an art book by an artist that was entirely nostril sex.

(01:24:46):
So it was it was nostrils drawn. It was all
pen and ink or pencil. It was nostrils drawn, very
large and distended with penises dongs going into them. So
when she says it's a good thing I'm not a
nostril woman, which I think is that that was the

(01:25:09):
alternate title to natural woman, it sounds like a you
make me feel like a nostral woman. Uh, someone else,
have a freckle juice. That's a horrible name. Freckle juice.

(01:25:31):
Who's a senior member. I think life freckle juiced female members.
I agree, although I admit I've always thought he was sexy. Uh.
Seven six Lakes says he and Andrew McCarthy were my
favorites on the brat Pack era I love him in
the black List, Oh tammy en j comes in with

(01:25:53):
an alternatives pont. He grosses me out. I never ever
thought he was handsome. I hated him and all his
hateful hate A characters. Now Andrew McCarthy, on the other hand, sigh.
She says, but I don't think it's weird that someone
becomes more attractive as the age. I think some people,

(01:26:13):
usually men in parentheses, carry themselves differently as the age,
more of a gravitass that can be attractive. I tend
to like older guys in general, but not not James Spain.
Make that clear. So anyway, if anyone's interested google a
pro teacher community, is it weird that I find James
Brader sexy? Because it is a It is a look

(01:26:37):
into the minds of female teachers who may or may
not may find may find James Brader sexy. Uh. There's
also rpg net that says, explain to me the sex
appeal of James Spader. So I was watching Bust the
League with my girlfriend another girl last night, his girlfriend
and another girl watching Boston, New York, and both of

(01:27:01):
them turn into little moist heaps Whenever James Vader is
on screened. This doesn't seem to be an uncommon view
among women. I know. Now I like James Bader just fine,
but I am at a loss to see his chubby,
smug sex appeal a later series. Yes, I don't know
that we're going to have James Catz says. I have

(01:27:28):
to say him and William Shatner are awfully cute together,
and I like the episode where they end up in bed. Okay,
I'm having a hard time not seeing that as two
penis costumes, real penis costumes. It's probably the flamingos. Yes,

(01:27:49):
I don't think Flminger's are overly overly penile. No, they're
pink great, But.

Speaker 4 (01:27:54):
Other than that, that's lack a fmingo and a doctor appointment.

Speaker 2 (01:28:01):
Right, if it gets narrower as it gets to the
end and it has a beak, yes, go to the go,
go speak to someone. So what I like is and
as we wrap up Sleazy Spader Springtime, there is never
not a bad time to google James Spader. I'm just
saying that the wealth of information. Do you think he

(01:28:26):
has done that every day? I imagine he googles himself daily.
All right, this is absolutely the last thing I promise
the end, the end of the end, the end of
the sleeves. Writers Blanc Magazine, Students Magazine for Writing, Art
and Photography. I don't know when this is from. It
doesn't have a day, Oh no I do. It is

(01:28:47):
from August twenty first, twenty seventeen, and they did the
top fifteen best James Spader performances, and I'm going to
run them down for you and see if we agree. Fifteen,
number fifteen, tough turf. I would probably put that in
the top ten. But number fourteen, The New Kids. That

(01:29:07):
the New Kids, it is, number thirteen curtain Call or
it all came true. You're a big fan of that, right,
we should have covered that film instead of Pentagon. Number eleven, Storyville. Yeah,
get it out, get it out of the top fifteen,

(01:29:29):
number ten, bad influence. As you said. The one all
I remember about that is there's a big, stately home
with a big party and he broadcasts Spader having sex
on a giant projector screen for all of his like
parents and girlfriend to see. IM Yeah, that's what I asked.

(01:29:53):
Like it's a horrible humiliation, Like it's this. I can't
even imagine it being a I still love that fifty
it's ten. Yes, number nine Wolf, Now I would have
Wolf in the top five right, just for the movie alone,
if not for Spader a number eight less than zero.
He's not in it enough. No, he's not. He's just

(01:30:16):
not in it enough. He's not. When he's on screen,
he's a very commanding presence, but he's just not he's
not in it enough. Yes, number seven the Music of Chance. Well,
these people have really done their their research, because that's
not one you just trip over. And I'm still not

(01:30:36):
I'm not crazy about putting it at number seven. No,
but it does break the black hair rule. It's the
one rule where he does have a black hair and
a mustache that isn't slow burning, and therefore it Yeah,
that mustache is impressive. Yes, Also, considering it's a movie
about two men building a wall, they still cram in
a sex scene with Samantha Mathis. Of course, of course

(01:30:58):
Yahoo Days in the Valley. It's a terrible movie. But yes,
he's a hit man. There's no need for him to
be sleazy, yet he is.

Speaker 6 (01:31:11):
He is.

Speaker 2 (01:31:12):
And Spader got an early Charlie's Theron sex scene, which
I'm not sure like, can you imagine Thorn and Spader
now like she is still a satuesque beauty and he's
a blob of sausage meat. But he is very handsome
in Two Days in the Valley White Palace. It's not

(01:31:35):
top fifteen at all. I don't agree with him at all.
I understand why because they think, you know the sex scenes.
He wafts a sandwich about it. I love the number four,
prittyant pink. No, well, his bit, his bit, his bit, yes, yes,
what it's top five, it's it's his performances. So they're

(01:31:58):
not judging the movies. Okay, he is fantastic in that
bit he does. Him and Pots is what we want. Yes,
in fact, the movie where him and Potts get together,
Pots and Wi Yes and Wispy get together surprising yes,
oh number of people. Oh Whispy, what are you doing?

(01:32:19):
The lovely Debbie McGee. Nobody knows Paul Daniels anymore. He's
not He's not around anymore, is he? I think? Isn't it?
Did he die? I think he did? Could?

Speaker 7 (01:32:31):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (01:32:32):
Sorry? Oh oh the lovely Debbie McGee. Now, Debbie McGee,
Spader would have been all over that Spader would have
been You would have spread Spader on Debbie McGee like
a like a rich preserve or jam. Yes, uh, number three,
Secretary it is? But is it number? Is it number three?

(01:32:55):
I feel like it it hits the number one spot. Sure,
I think Secretary is quintessential sin I do? I think?

Speaker 3 (01:33:04):
So this all said that I don't know what's top.

Speaker 2 (01:33:06):
I don't know what's top for me really well.

Speaker 4 (01:33:08):
Number two is Crash, Okay, crash maybe yeah, maybe crash
will be.

Speaker 2 (01:33:13):
Number one is sexualize and videotapes. I I think I
need to rewatch it. Yeah, I've seen it three times
in my life, and each time I instantly forget what
it's about. There there's a lot of sitting around in
in you know. Yes, it's a bit it's a bit wafty,
as you say, but I mean he's certainly very handsome
in it. You certainly understand during that kind of flouncy

(01:33:37):
tassel Head period why women would be but number one.
I'm just not sure number one. It wouldn't be number
one for me.

Speaker 3 (01:33:47):
No, watchability is not number one.

Speaker 2 (01:33:50):
No, that's probably Wolf. Yeah, but performance wise, I'll have
to rewatch it. But I think I think there's ought
to be done. I think what I want to leave
the listeners with is while Sleezy Sprader might be ending.
I feel like some of these articles about Top fifteen staff,
or some of these letterbox lists about Spader, I feel

(01:34:11):
like I need to create the quintessential list. Yes, and
that might involve me going back and rewatching. All right,
So we just recorded the full James Spader Penticon Papers
last Sleezy Spader Springtime episode, only to realize that neither
Andy nor myself picked anything to go in the Sleezeatorium.

(01:34:35):
And how dare we almost end the whole season without
going back delving one more time into the basement horrors
of the Sleezeatorium. So Andy, while we were just watching
a very odd James Sprader interview that he gave on
the Sam Roberts Show, in which he said very little

(01:34:59):
except a parent he was broke, which I just find
before he did the Black Bests like he was penniless,
and I just think that's a bit bizarre. Even doesn't
he get residual checks from Boston League anyway? Also like
all the movies he has been I don't know anyway,
what from the Pentagon Papers, which I agree was not

(01:35:21):
the sleeziest of films. But what from the Pentagon papers
do you think he would have in the sleeezatorium.

Speaker 6 (01:35:29):
I think the blinds. There were there were some nice
little blinds in his office, in his rather empty office,
and he'd just be able to kind of slowly open them, okay,
and close them whenever he wanted, and they'd lead into
another room in the Sleezatorian with maybe had sort of

(01:35:50):
certain particular items that he particularly cherished behind the blind. Yes,
so he could if he wanted to see what was
in the other one. You know, there was a towel, roller, things,
there was definitely there's multiple robes, so he could slowly
open the blind, see little bits of the robe slowly

(01:36:10):
as he wanted to, and then quickly release I he's gone.

Speaker 2 (01:36:15):
So you think he would tease himself. Yes, it would
be a way to kind of temper he sees these
lines in that'd be good for later. I went darker
with my choice. I went a lot darker. So you
know in the Vietnam scene, yes, they get to the
village where everyone has been killed, but there's also a

(01:36:39):
claim that some of the Viet Kong have been killed. Yes,
there's no evidence of the Vietkong being killed and therefore
he doesn't believe it. He just thinks the villagers have
just been killed by American soldiers. And he looks around
at on the floor and there's sort of a dummy,
I assume of sort of a dead fetal Vietnamese villager.

(01:37:03):
I think he has that. I love the blinds idea.
I think he definitely has the blinds. I think the
blinds are wonderful, and I like that it's sort of
a way to tantalize himself. But I think that he
occasionally goes down to the Sleezatorium and cuddles with a

(01:37:24):
dummy of a dead fetal Vietnamese one. I think, I
think that's that's that's what I'm putting in there. And
maybe I don't know Claire Fulani's nightgown just just maybe
then maybe he puts a nightgown on the dead Vietnamese
dummy and parades her around as if it's sort of
for Lannie. What do you think is why, Well, he

(01:37:49):
doesn't have a wife friend, but his girlfriend's longtime girlfriend.
Do you think she even knows about the Sleezatorium? No?
Do you think there's a an entry like a secret
entrance in his house. Yes, that she doesn't know about
at all. Yes, God, that makes it even more insidious.

(01:38:10):
Do you think there's a time when he gets older,
when he's in his seventies or eighties, maybe where he
tells one of his children wearing is possibly, Yes, it's
going to be in his will though, that he bequeaths
these horrors.

Speaker 6 (01:38:23):
I think the wife wouldn't well, I wouldn't care, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:38:29):
She just she's got to know what Yes, she knew
what she was doing, she was getting in for right, Well,
so thank you ever so much. I think that that
that does that We've got nothing else to do, right,
there's nothing else to add to. I think the blinds
sort of maybe.

Speaker 7 (01:38:45):
Fascinated by your blind, sort of suggest the kind of
thing about this stay spent spring time in the fact
that you could if you want to revisit past episode,
you can just kind of slowly open the blind.

Speaker 2 (01:39:02):
Slowly opened the blinds, and it's there for you. I
love it, and I love the little mime you're doing
of the blind which no one can see, no, but
I feel like they can. Very small blind though. It's
like a mini blind the way I'm doing it like
a mouse's blind.

Speaker 6 (01:39:18):
But yes, it would just slowly let you into the world
of Spader. Well, and if you don't like it, then
just I think that's marvelous.

Speaker 2 (01:39:27):
But anyway, Andy, it's your first time on the Diner.
It's the last easy Spader episode. You were the king
of Spader before I was. I have taken that torch
and run with it. How do you feel about closing
this out the way we have? I think we've given
it a good go.

Speaker 3 (01:39:44):
You've covered as much as you can cover.

Speaker 2 (01:39:47):
I've tried to cram it all in.

Speaker 4 (01:39:48):
You've covered it more than we have tonight. But yeah,
I think it's a good.

Speaker 3 (01:39:52):
End to it.

Speaker 2 (01:39:52):
I think it's a good end. Yes, I wanted to
end with a bang, not sad it's got to end.
But you know, well, I mean, like I said, we
might do Spader Scraps one the year and maybe cover
shorts the Homesman, Lincoln and Killer in the family that
would be that would be a Lettle and Boston Legal.

Speaker 3 (01:40:11):
I think maybe it's a big thing to cover.

Speaker 2 (01:40:13):
But mean so, I recently rewatched while I had COVID,
and it was as much of a sheared delight this
time around as I remember I've now rewatched Boston Legal,
I think four times, or watched it four times, like
I watched it originally, and then I watched it I
think three times since. And while the first two series

(01:40:38):
weirdly they have they have a lot of their moments
and they're kind of defining what the show is, his
character does change by the fifth season, because when I
was held up, I hold up down here with COVID.
I watched the first two seasons. In the fifth season,
I didn't watch the three and four, and I have

(01:40:59):
to go back and do that.

Speaker 9 (01:41:00):
But my feeling was is I sort of preferred the
ambiguous Alan Shaw of the first two seasons, but I
preferred the plot lines of the fifth season.

Speaker 2 (01:41:14):
That makes sense.

Speaker 3 (01:41:15):
I mean, could you cover it in like a kind
of series, you know, I could.

Speaker 4 (01:41:20):
Could you have next year's Sleazy Spader being series one
bost Legal and.

Speaker 2 (01:41:26):
Each year that would be a tall order. I think
what you're trying to do here, Alan Is wrote me
into three more years of Spader, and I just I think,
I think all good things have to come to an end.
I would acquiesce to in two or three years. When
I've I've feeling the pang of doing Spader scraps as

(01:41:52):
four things. Whether I would do a deep dive into
Boston Legal, I feel like I would have to stop
the diner and do one of those podcasts where every
episode is every episode of the podcast is one episode
of the show. Ah, And I don't know that I
could really have the patience for that, but who knows

(01:42:14):
the world? I mean, listen, we have all decided that
the aftermovie Dyna must continue. Yes, we've all decided that
it will potentially continue in rich, strange and interesting ways.
So never say never, my friend. Okay, never say never.
And that's where we end this sleasy spade of springtime
with never say never, because also, who knows what he's

(01:42:36):
going to do next? Who knows? That is exciting?

Speaker 3 (01:42:39):
Right, Hopefully you won't quit.

Speaker 2 (01:42:42):
Hopefully I have something new, Yeah, I hope. Thank you
ever so much, Andy for being the closer and this
most auspicious You have been very worthy of it, So
thank you so much. All right, and that's it, We're done,

(01:43:02):
We're out. Bomb

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Season 2 - Ep 15 - The Pentagon Papers - Sleazy Spader Springtime 7: "Sleaze the Day" No. 4

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Season 2 - Ep 15 - The Pentagon Papers - Sleazy Spader Springtime 7: "Sleaze the Day" No. 4