Season 2 - Ep 17 - The Substance - The After Movie Diner Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:13):
Yes, that's right. It's the inevitably nonsensical, yet hopefully enjoyable
After Movie Diner Season two. Like all good sequels, in
season two, you can expect us to ramp up the action, explotives,
gratuitous mentions of James Spader's inner thigh, and of course
the gore. That's right, we're going to be rupturing ear lobes,

(00:37):
nastily prodding dangle viscera, pulling knee caps off, and splashing
about in the goopy bits. Oh ooh, I'm sorry, I
got carried away. Calm yourself, Leanna. If you enjoy the
show and have pursued the recommended treatment from your medical providers,
why not support the show on Patreon over at PA

(01:01):
t r e o n dot com, forward slash Aftermovie Diner,
rate and review the show wherever podcasts are found and
rating and reviewing is possible. Even a one star review
provides useful insights on exactly the sort of petty minded
and wretched individual who negatively reviews free entertainment they do

(01:22):
not need to be consuming. So, without further dribbling, please
put down your lenon merangues, silence your bowels, and rub
two nearby dogs. Together for the One the Only John Cross, Hello.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
Everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of The Aftermovie Diner.
And it gives me no end of incredible thrills to
announce that on the show is an all dear, wonderful
friend of mine who happened to also wind up stateside, however,
all the way out west in Las Ange. Je list.

(02:01):
It is my college buddy, My friend has great taste.
It is Nick Meek Whitehead. Pleased to have you on
the show.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
Finally, it's been Yeah, it's silly that we haven't done this,
done this sooner, John.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yes, indeed I agree, because very often shows like mine,
although I hope they're very just silly and funny and
relaxing and things that people want to listen to and
chill out to, very often it can just sound like
a bunch of middle aged bearded white guys talking about
middle age bearded white guys stuff.

Speaker 3 (02:30):
And you found yourself a middle age bearded white lady.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yes, indeed, here I am. But I'm just by which
to say, I much prefer it when we can have
a broader perspective on the show, is all I mean,
In the in the best possible way. Yeah, Because very
often that doesn't happen. So anyway, either way, it's fantastic.
It's great to have you on the show. It's great
that you're here in America, except because of what just happened,

(02:53):
but it would otherwise. It would be very great that
you were in America.

Speaker 3 (02:56):
Yes, our little our little corners, we're doing the best
we can.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
We have to stick together, that's what it is. Yes,
it doesn't mean that we have to say come by
our to everybody, but we should at least say kumbiar
to each other and just get on with it as
best we can because that's all we have.

Speaker 3 (03:14):
That's all we have.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
It's all we have. But I'm so glad that we're
having you on the show because this all came out
of the fact that we occasionally chat on Instagram about
various different things that I'm posting, and in this occasion,
it was about the movie The Substance starring Demi Mour
and Margaret Qually and Dennis Quaid. That has has been

(03:38):
and Denis Quaid he is He's my did He's Quaid
is one of my favorite? Denise's how do you feel
about the quad stuff?

Speaker 3 (03:49):
Good Lord, I mean, let's jump right in in this movie.
He was a revelation. I mean, obviously this this is
this is Demi Moore's film, and she's remind she's a
wonderful actor, like very few notes because she's just fantastic,
and I can't and yeah, Denise was a real boy

(04:11):
or boy. They were like, okay, so we've written this
character as a piece of garbage, like how far are
you willing to go? And he's like, just bring me
shrimp and I'll show you. Yes, just keep ringing.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
I believe that's how the conversation went. He went, oh willing,
how far am I willing to go? Just bring me shrimp?
That is phenomenal. That is phenomenal. That's exactly what was said. So, yeah,
I had been watching The Substance and I had been
commenting on it, and it was intriguing because while I
was commenting on it, I was definitely coming at it
from a negative perspective, and I was definitely talking about

(04:47):
it from a kind of Jesus, It's over two hours long,
stop making horror films, over two hours long, and I
was definitely coming at it like, Okay, we've gone twenty
minutes and it's only said the same thing over and
over again eight time, like, come on, now, you know,
first of all, we can cut those eighteen minutes, say
what you need to say, then onto the next scene.
But I was definitely watching it that way, and Nick

(05:10):
was commenting on it because I believe you had just
seen it right now, a.

Speaker 3 (05:14):
Week or two before we went to the theater to
see it.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah, okay, yeah, you weren't. You weren't lazy like me.
But I think it's very interesting to say that this
is a movie produced film, and Movie's been around for
a while. It was one of actually an earlier streaming
service that I used to have back when film Struck
was still around. Back when I was I miss film Struck.
Film Struck was so good, and now Max has not

(05:38):
replaced it at all. But anyway, I used to watch
Movie a lot because it had all the if you
wanted an art house film, if you wanted a auto
director film, if you wanted a foreign language film, either
Movie or Film Struck had it so and Movie had
not to my knowledge, And I don't know, this might
be just the first one I'm aware of, but had

(05:59):
not to my knowledge, gone down the route that most
streaming services eventually do. Which is to make their own stuff,
produce their own stuff. Even Shutter is putting its name
on a bunch of horror movies that come out, like
independent horror movies or whatever, and buying it up as
a Shutter exclusive. So that started to happen because Netflix
Prime others kind of that's how they started to make

(06:21):
their ownions. This one is the first movie one that
I've come across, so it's definitely one that I believe
has been financed almost a little bit as an art film,
but that is gaining I think very well, certainly based
on all the film blogs and all the film sites
and all the Facebook film groups and whatever that I'm in.

(06:44):
This is one that has popped up on my timeline
almost daily since it came out. Wow, okay, so my
fit well because I think yes, it's it sort of
pleases both sides of the aisle. So whether you are
within the horror community every day or not, the horror
community such as it is, has sort of broken off
into two fractions like everyone else. One is elevated horror,

(07:08):
which would be typified by films like Midsummer and maybe
the Ouvra of Jordan Peel. If I can sound truly pretentious.
That would be like elevated horror, and then the eighties
and nineties Gore fanboy, horror gang, who are people who

(07:30):
love films liked the Thing and Reanimator and Evil then
Two and things like that. And what's interesting to me,
and probably one of the reasons why I sort of
came around on this movie is that while it does
play squarely into elevated horror, house horror, creative, whatever you

(07:51):
want to call it, it's got a creative eye to it.
While it does play into that, it also plays into
very much the body horror, the fluid horror, to horror,
whatever you want to call it, of those movies like Reanimator,
Toxic Avenger and things like that. And I think that's
probably why it's finding a broader audience.

Speaker 3 (08:11):
Yeah, I think you're right. I mean, I'm certainly not
inside horror as you would say, like, I'm not really
what you would classify as a coward. I don't enjoy
jump scared. I don't like being frightened. I I have
a very vivid imagination. I have a my internal life
is very rich and visual, and it's not really helped
by scary pictures because I'll have like I had a

(08:35):
at least a decade of recurring nightmares based on I
Am Legend, which is not even that scary a film,
but I found it very chilling and frightening and it
really it got inside there.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
And Neil Marshalls The Descent, I'll just tell you that
never watched The Descent. The Descent is like I Am Legend,
but terrifying.

Speaker 3 (09:02):
I Am Legend was already terrifying.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yeah it was.

Speaker 3 (09:05):
Yeah, it messed me up so genuinely.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
Not which is totally fine, totally and we are a
non judgmental safe space here at the aftermovie down I
want you to know.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
But then at the same time, the schlocky, silly body
horror over the top thing is something that I enjoy
from just from a visual standpoint and from especially in
older movies. The special effects and the low budget I
just think is really like creative and interesting and it's
just a lot of fun to just watch blood spread

(09:35):
around everywhere and to like understand the formula and to
know what's coming, but to still get like a almost
like watching a professional wrestling match. It's like you know
what's coming, it's it's predestined, but it's fun. To be
along for the ride, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (09:50):
Oh a thousand percent, I completely agree. And it was funny.
It was no, it was funny. It was I was
a very squeamish kit I was. I was. So you'll
hopefully remember a TV show in the UK called The
Two Runnies, in which they had, of course, in which
they had a running like a running comedy serial called

(10:15):
the Phantom Fart Blower or something like that, and it
was meant to be like a Jack the Ripper thing,
but it was a guy who had a cape that
opened the cape and went like did a raspberry? You
know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
I'm regressing into previous lives, John Missus, Yes.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
No, that's good. No, It's like when I used to
do a commentary podcast with my friend Paul Crosson who's
from Leicester, and all we did was make Bobby Davreux
jokes and like jokes about Bobby, jokes about how bad
Bobby davau was. I always try and tell people, sure,
there's the England of Monty Python and you know Stephen

(10:51):
Frye and David Beckham and Benderdicet, Cumber Crouch or whatever
his name is. There's that England, right, the sort of Oxbridge, England.
But then is the russ abbot Bobby Davreau, you know,
the the les Dennis.

Speaker 3 (11:07):
God just ugly blue dirt Bagsine, Yes, but.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
You have to reckon with that, you have to understand that. Sure,
while we all want to be fucking you know, Hugh
Grant or whatever it is, most of.

Speaker 3 (11:19):
Us are doing Tuesday nights at Blackpool Tower.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah, yes, exactly. Most of us are being like, I
don't really know and thinking that that constitutes an impression
of anything. Like everyone anywhere could do an impression of
whatever her name was from Coronation Street, but somehow we
all had to put up with Bobby davrou doing it
for like a decade, Waypuss. Yeah, anyway, I loved. What

(11:45):
I like to dock in these shows is alienate my
audience immediately. Oh that's what I love.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
And I'm doubling And now we're doubling down because I'm
English and I'm approximately the same age as you. So yeah,
Bobby Davre rabbit.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
Yeah, It's like recently, in the last few years, there
was a movie called Let's Kill Keith Chegwin, and it
was Keith Chegwin's in the movie like that. It was
like a meta It was like a meta movie. But
Keith Chegwin is in the movie, and basically the plot
is everyone fucking wants to kill Keith Chagwin. So look,

(12:22):
it makes sense to me. How did we go down?
Why were we talking about that?

Speaker 3 (12:25):
Not entirely sure, we went from Schwark to obvious.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yeah, so anyway, but the substance it lives. Weirdly enough,
the substance kind of lives in my sweet spot because
although I definitely love love, love gory horror and body horror,
and because I'm like you, I love the prosthetics and
the fakery of it. I love the craft of it.

(12:53):
I love the I love that someone had to sculpt something,
or someone had to blow something or build something or
you know, plaster of parasit or whatever. They had to
figure it out like a magic trick or like you know,
like an incredible illusion. And I love all that stuff,
Like I'm fascinated by that stuff. When CGI came in,

(13:15):
you know, we all have to accept it. It is what
it is. It's here to stay and blah blah blah
blah blah. But to me, it will never ever ever
replace practical effects. Practical effects will always be more interesting.
And what's beautiful right now is that we are seeing
you know, we went through a long swathe of.

Speaker 3 (13:34):
Remakes, if we ever good grief right.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
Exactly where people were like, well, people from the eighties
want to see Evil Dead, so let's remake Evil Dead.
They want to see Don of the Dead, so let's
remake Don of the Dead. They want to see whatever
it was. They remade everything, and what they found out
was like new audiences flocked to those movies because new
audiences didn't give a fuck about the past. But the
people that they really wanted to get us, we didn't
really care. What is interesting is that we are starting

(14:01):
to see and maybe this is that hole we were
talking before we went live about the different generations. Maybe
we're seeing that finally Gen X, which was always a
middle generation, was always meant to be a short generation
in between the Boomers and the Millennials, that there'll be
much bigger generations and much more impactful generations. We have

(14:23):
been watching movies directed in the last forty years by
either the silent generation or the Boomer generation. Predominantly, those
are the stories that have been being told. So the
remake cycle was sort of the last dying gasp of
that kind of cynicism about the horror genre, where it
was just like, all people want a tits, us and gore,

(14:45):
that's all they care about. Nobody cares about a story,
nobody cares about a character, Nobody cares about it a
rittal idea, let's just pump this out, that's all people want,
And that lasted them for about ten to fifteen years.
But I think what we're beginning to see, whether it's
the success of something that I think is actually pretty shallow,
which is like the Terrifier franchise, which just the third

(15:06):
part of it just went like eighty five million its
first weekend or whatever, like one of the biggest, one
of the biggest NC seventeen openings of all times. We're
either seeing stuff like that, always seing stuff like The Substance,
which has some substance to it, it has some ideas
behind it, it has some metaphor that's trying to explore,

(15:27):
but that it also has all the body horror, all
the comedy horror, all the gore horror, all the vomitous
or whatever fluid you want to talk about. It has
it in the movie, and I think that it's finding
that sweet spot between the two, which is I think
where I reside. I'm not a you know, gore for
gore sake guy, but I'm also not a empty just

(15:51):
a bunch of you know, practical effects for practical effects sake.
And I'm also not a three hour elevated horror pipe smoking,
turtle neck warring you know. Well, I mean Midsumber had
to be three hours because blah blah blah blah. Like
I'm not. I'm not that guy either, So I think
the substance hits me right.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
In the See that's interesting. Yeah, I think I agree
in theory with a lot of what you're saying. It
was definitely trying to do a lot and was I
would say, broadly unsuccessful. Yes, the acting I thought was phenomenal.

(16:33):
There were some parts that were genuinely moving, not just
not just like the shock horror of it, but like
some some of the actings, some of the HM weird
little relationship between the two characters was quite moving. But
I think, oh boy, I do think it was. It

(16:53):
was bloated, Oh was it blowing? And it was again
you could have cut forty minutes out of it. Easy,
like I was editing. I was editing in the theater.
In my mind, like I was watching in the theater.
I was supposed to be like involved, and I was.
I was there for it. I wanted to see what
was going to happen. I didn't have spoilers about the movie.
I didn't really have that much knowledge about it other

(17:14):
than it was like kind of sci fi horror. Like
I was like, I'm into it, I'll avele to go.
I was excited to see. To me more, I was
thrilled to see like a.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
Lot of actors got her start in horror, and I.

Speaker 3 (17:28):
Was thrilled to see as much of her as I did. Obviously,
it's I wanted to see a movie that starred two
women and and men were either like gargoyles or an afterthought,
which is very enjoyable. But that's that just feels cathartic,
just to see, especially in something like this, something that's

(17:51):
a little bit more genrefied. It's you know what I mean,
horror is let's say it's Mantown. It's white Mantown. Jordan
Peel included, at least in my experience, it is.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
I think that there is because I agree with you. Yes,
In terms of the people who are making horror, there
are only really Diablo Cody and the Soska Twins that
I can really think of as sort of female. I mean,
Katherin Bigelow started with sort of Near Dark and some
of those films, but in general did not continue down
that trajectory, went actually in a more even more male

(18:23):
centric kind of area actually with war films. But in
general you're right in terms of it being a boys
club behind the camera. I think what's interesting about the
horror genre and in fact exploitation in general. And again
I tread carefully here because it could be seen either way,
because it's definitely a have your cake and eat it

(18:45):
to kind of scenario. Exploitation was, and horror and grindhouse,
whatever B movie, whatever genre you want to kind of
label those movies in they were sometimes the only game
in town that was actually giving women central roles, leading roles,

(19:06):
that was allowing women to be seen as either action
heroes or heroines or whatever you want to call it,
but also also allowing for it. It's the same thing
when people talk about kind of on screen nudity, some
people see it as a male construct that is problematic

(19:27):
because it feels like the actor has been coerced into
doing something unnecessary for the screen. Or there are people
like Pangria, for example, who talk very passionately and very
eloquently that her being naked on film for her was
an empowering, strong, important moment. So and I, as a male,

(19:52):
I can't talk to either side, but I mean, this
is what you end up kind of hearing. And I
feel that one of the things the substance does, I
actually think very well, is continue this tradition. I was
just talking the other night about the ex trilogy x
Perl and Maxine, which does the same thing. It puts
the control even though it's made by Ty West, another

(20:15):
white dude with a beard. It puts the control and
the power of the character's decisions, which is a very
interesting and important distinction in the hands not only of
those characters, but of the women character. Yeah, and I
think that the substance does the same thing.

Speaker 3 (20:33):
No, you bring up something really interesting, because I mean
you said, as a man, it's difficult for you to
comment on how a woman feels being naked on film, right,
And obviously for every woman who's naked on film, there's
a different story behind that because not everybody, not every
actor is going to have is going to be able
to come to that decision on their own. There's coercion,

(20:54):
There's all different kinds of tactics at play, and obviously
all different kinds of politics at play because it's a
businesses it's that you know, it's big business. But I thought,
I what I enjoyed, if I can be a purv,
what I enjoyed the most about the substance was the nudity,
because I thought it was I thought it was fascinating.

(21:15):
How because I watched it again. You I watched it
again on streaming yesterday while I was making chili before work.
Natural bedfellows to watch a real goring movie while you're
chopping vegetables.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
Well, there is that fantastic scene where she's just putting
everything in the blender and then just like throws the
fucking blend everywhere.

Speaker 3 (21:36):
Yeah, I managed, I managed to keep myself restrained. But
as I watched it again, I watched it at one
point five speed because I was squeeze for time and
the parts of the movie because when I watched it
in the theater, I thought, this movie is generally speaking
quite slow, but the nudity when she's lash day are

(21:58):
alone in the bathroom, alone or together, the nudity is
is drawn out and not in a way that it
doesn't even when I was when I went to see it,
full disclosure, I did not know that it was a
female director. When I saw that nude scene, I was like,
this is a female director, because it's it's the body
is shown top to toe, whoever's body it is, You're

(22:22):
shown the whole thing, and somehow it is not and
it's I mean, it is sexualized obviously because it's a
naked body, and you know, we're human, human beasts, and
that's what we do. But when you contrast that with
when later on when she's making the pilot for the show,

(22:42):
when they're filming that and there are men in the
room because obviously all of the behind the camera crews men,
almost all of them, apart from like maybe her assistant,
the way that her body is is sexualized in those
scenes when she actually is wearing clothing is obsceem like.
It's it's very very visceral. It's extremely sexual. Everything's sweaty

(23:05):
and shiny. The closer she's cut into discrete pieces by
the by the lens that is in front of the
lens that's filming the movie. It was fascinating. I really
really enjoyed The New Day. It's incredible.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
I completely agree. And very often you know there are
there are roles and parts that you know the critics
in the media will trip over themselves to call brave
or daring. I think that Demi Moore's performance, especially considering

(23:46):
who Demi Moore is, right, So it's not just it's
a daring performance for any actor, it is a daring
performance for any actor whatsoever. Because the bear doesn't even
cover it, like it doesn't even it's not even the
tip of the iceberg of what it is. But an

(24:07):
actor who previously had struggled with body image issues, who
had previously had famously plastic surgery on her breasts and
later on her face, someone who you know, her previous

(24:29):
husband and whatever they'd been very open about, like what
he wanted from her and et cetera, et cetera. And
then someone who had earlier in her career, whether it
was the Vanity Fair cover or whether it was the
movie Striptease or whatever it was, tried to in her
best way own her own body, own her own message,

(24:51):
own her own sexuality, and you know, make her own decisions,
whether it was producing those movies or you know, controlling
the narrative of that Vanity Fair shoot or whatever it is.
It became very important to her, I'm sure, based on
numerous different reasons when you put all of that into

(25:14):
this film, especially with the eighties esthetic, because you know,
where is Demi Moore from? Like what do we think
of Demi Moore? Like we think of those quintessential eighties
and nineties movies where she is, you know, bigger than big,
like she's she's she's the her and Meg Ryan. You know,

(25:35):
that's that's it for like American Sweethearts, right, So you
know they are they're in such cornerstone films that you know,
anyone who grows up post those movies will have seen
those movies.

Speaker 3 (25:48):
Yeah, at some.

Speaker 2 (25:49):
Point they you know, So her doing what she does
in this film, both with the nudity but also the
I think where this movie turned me around. So I
think when I was first watching this movie, I was
very incorrectly watching it as a movie where I knew
a ton of stuff about Demi Moura and the surgery

(26:10):
she had and blah blah blah blah blah. And I
was watching this movie and I was thinking like, well,
you know, this seems a bit hypocritical, Like what the
fuck like this movie is talking about, you know, age
and body image and people have a fifty in Hollywood
and blah blah blah blah blah. And it felt like,
right off the bat a little bit how I felt

(26:32):
about Barbie. And Barbie was a movie for me where
I'm like, look, I get it, I really get it.
Like men are fucking terrible. No, you're not gonna get
any argument from me. Men are fucking terrible. I agree
with you, even the good ones. And I consider myself
maybe possibly in the top fifty thousand of potentially potentially

(26:53):
good people, even those ones have thoughts and whatever that
you would be like, oh, for Fox's sake, you would
immediately you know what I mean? Right, we are all
fucking monsters. But very often when I and I because
again I consider myself progressive or whatever you want to

(27:14):
call me. But when I watched Barbi, I was like,
these things that Barbie's talking about really still a problem
and if they are, well, Jesus fucking Christ, like what
Like it was very much. It seemed very much like
the kind of stuff people were complaining about in my
mother's generation and even my grandmother's generation. I'm not saying

(27:34):
some of those things are still not a problem, because
I'm sure they are, but in general, we've come on,
We've got to be further than whatever. The message of
Barbie was right. That's how I felt watching Bobbie.

Speaker 3 (27:48):
Tough to say. I watched Barbie in a pretty high
emotional state, cried like three times, and.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
I totally understand that. I do totally understand that.

Speaker 3 (28:01):
A lot in it that I did connect to. This
is the Sidebarrius sidebar, but there was a lot in
it that I did connect to, and a lot in
it that I feel like when you're in a room
and you see another woman and you see things, you
just know there's there, there's vibes, there's just I don't
know this woman stuff.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
I think, no totally, and I don't want to be
I'm just saying that when I there weren't any women
in my life, whether it was all my female friends,
whether my sisters were my wife or whatever, that when
I watched Bobby wouldn't if they were in that situation
not be like, go fuck yourself and go off and

(28:43):
do whatever they wanted to do. I just meant that
the premise of Bobby seemed to stem from this idea
that women can't ever break from whatever that oppressive narrative is. Yeah,
and I see that evidence in my life that women
have broken and from that. Not not in the millions,
but but I've seen that in my own life to

(29:05):
a way where I'm like, is this net? And again,
I'm male, so I don't know what I'm talking about,
but is this a healthy narrative to constantly regurgitate that?
That was more what I was saying.

Speaker 3 (29:15):
Okay, I see what you say. And also I am
a white woman, so give me an asterisk as well.
I'm a diminutive white woman in Los Angeles. It's basically
a superpower, you know that, Like when have I ever
been stopped by TSA? Literally never, Like, oh, I've been.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
Stopped by TSA like a worrying amount of times. But
I think it's the being.

Speaker 3 (29:35):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's It's it's complicated because obviously,
I know comparatively I've got it real good. But at
the same time, I there are hoops that I jumped
through that men wouldn't even think about, and during very

(29:59):
specific I can think of specific circumstances. For example, when
I do trade shows. You know this, you've worked at
Javit Center. When I go to the Javit Center, the
team stairs and the electricians and all those guild guys,
they're traditional guys. For the most part. There's there's more
women in there than you would expect, which is very nice.

(30:20):
But I find myself playing dumb quite a lot. I'm
forty two years old, but I generally can pass for
a little younger if you don't look too close and
don't ask about my white hairs. And I have to
play that up. I know, John, you're half and half there.
It's crazy, and I have to play up the dumb

(30:40):
young girl card like I have to. I have to
play that so hard just to just to do my job,
just to try and just get through the day without
like some guy like talking to me about how I'm
hanging my lights or like asking me to get out
of it or whatever it is. It's just like that's awful.
That sounds awful, well it is, but at the same time,
like I'm a white lady, so I can weaponize that

(31:04):
from time to time from my friends who are not
light ladies.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
It's pretty fun. No, listen, look, I'm the first to
acknowledge my overbearing privilege. But I also hope to watch
I think it's it's different, and this plays into the
substance as well. There are movies I watch now with

(31:30):
thirty eight years of adult film. I've started watching adult
film like films that were made for predominantly people over
twenty when I was about five or six years old. Yeah,
so there is now about thirty eight years worth of
filming knowledge stuff I've seen. And again, listen, there are

(31:55):
far more knowledgeable people than me. But I have watched
a little bit from every decade, a little bit from
every genre, a little bit from every whether it's the
z Gradiesst z Grade shot on vidhs in Iowa in
nineteen eighty nine, the Last sixty Minutes, or whether it
is Lawrence of Arabia or Advantage cock films or whatever

(32:19):
you want to you know, Casa blancro whatever it is. So,
you know, I think that when I come to movies
like Bobbie, or come to movies like The Substance, or
come to movies that are they're predisposed to have a message,
and I'm not against movies having a message, but I

(32:40):
think it's how you deal with that message and how
you I think people have to talk more down to
the audience these days than they did thirty years ago.
And I think that as someone who has seen a
lot of these discussions already happened through the decades of
pop culture, through what he's watched to be in twenty

(33:01):
twenty four and watch The Substance, or Be in twenty
twenty three and watch Bobby or whatever, there is a
part of you where you're like, well, I mean, hang
on a second again, Like we were talking about earlier,
like movies tackled this forty years ago, like what is
And I get from a female perspective that like, no, no,
this shit still happens every single fucking day. What are

(33:22):
you talking about? You're an idiot? I understand it, But
it doesn't mean that from a filmic scripting story whatever level,
I'm not, I'm I listen, my forty four year old
white dudeness will come into play at some point. Not

(33:43):
that I don't take a message from it, but I
also go, isn't there a better way to make this message?

Speaker 3 (33:48):
And at the same time, there's a lot of movies
that we've seen a lot of times before speaking of
forty four year old Why guys, so it is.

Speaker 2 (33:55):
An enemy, the enemy, I am the enemy, I guess,
and I mean.

Speaker 3 (34:00):
I'm going to come to Connecticut and fighting, and not
just with the with lady fisks.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
By the way, putting the word lady before anything is
inherently funny. There is I know that isn't funny. It
starts with lady fingers and then it just.

Speaker 3 (34:18):
Goes disgusting, disgusting.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
It is a disgusting name for an otherwise rather pleasant
children's biscuits, sponge sponge cake biscuit.

Speaker 3 (34:33):
Yeah, I mean it's not only.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
A man could have come up with lady fingers. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:39):
Anyway, this reminded me of my mother. Yeah, there's certainly
there's some originality within the substance. I feel like there's
a great movie in there. But the concept is neat

(34:59):
The concep is super cool, and a lot of a
lot of the execution, specifically of the the effects, the
practical effects, and the rebirth all of that stuff was
I thought visually very impressive. That the sets were cool,
the lighting was cool, the sound design was phenomenal, Like

(35:23):
that was what I got from my rewatch I kept
having because I was watching it again one point five,
but I kept having to slow it down again because
the sound design was so good and I was like,
I want to hear this, Like I wanted to hear
the hatching sounds and I wanted to hear obviously the
finale scene of the blood spraying. The sound is incredible

(35:48):
because it's just a horror sustained chord, like classic style
sustained cord, but it is monstrous and it's so loud
and it's so visperable. This was where Chris was like,
I don't understand what's happening, and I'm like, oh, I'm
back in. I love it.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
Oh yeah, no, I'm yeah. And again, I think you
can draw a line probably down this particular movie's fandom,
and half the fandom will think that the first two
thirds of the movie are the best, and then the
other fandom will think that the last third of the
movie are the best. And I guarantee that the people

(36:24):
who like the last third of the movie were born
before nineteen nineteen.

Speaker 3 (36:28):
Yeah, probably, because.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
The last third of this movie is phenomenal. I mean,
it's just absolutely phenomenal. It's I can't even But I
also want to point out I started watching it and
felt very negatively towards it. The scene where one of
the best I think one of the best scenes in

(36:53):
the movie, because not only is it a movie that,
not only is it a scene that I think speaks
very much to what I've witnessed in my relationships with
women and how they feel about themselves before they go out,
but also full disclosure, how I felt a thousand times

(37:14):
like I don't consider myself a vain person, but like,
when I'm going out, do I want to look like
a sloppy piece of shit? No, of course I don't.
So while I'm not a vain person, there are times
where I have tried to do my hair seven thousand times.
I'm gone, fucking I'm just gonna wear a hat and
try and pull off hats, even though I pull off hats,

(37:39):
but you know, I've tried throughout my life to be
a hat guy, even though you know, come on, who
am I kidding? So but it's the same with the
scene in the movie where Demi more finally decides all right,
I am alone. I'm not doing anything with this set

(38:00):
of time that I've been given in this process, because
they're given kind of seven days each between the young
version and the older version. We should probably explain the
plot of the substance before I go any.

Speaker 3 (38:10):
Further, But just everybody watched it, Sorry everybody.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
Yeah, no, no, no, it's fine, it's fine. But there
is a scene where she she decides, Okay, I'm going
to try life, right. She has this moment where she's
going to be like, instead of living for the younger
version of myself, who was actually just fucking annoying me
at this point because I have to look at her
through the window with this huge billboard and fuck her

(38:36):
and I hate her and she's awful. What she wants
to do is she's like, well, I should you know,
I'm I'm fifty. Let's like, let's go out, let's go
on a date, whatever. And she is recently bumped into
with a very kind of groundhog day Ned Ryerson, like
being Ned Ryerson. That's it, that guy who out of

(38:56):
nowhere at the beginning of the movie. He's an old
high school friend first that she kind of randomly bumps
into in the street and very clumsily because he's kind
of he's a goober, but he's also in awe of
the fact that someone from his high school is this
big workout actor, guru kind of person. He clumsily gives

(39:21):
her his number, and you know, we should meet up
and have her chat and whatever. So later on, when
she is swapping her life in between her and her
younger dopper gang, herself, she decides, Okay, I'm gonna go
on a date with this guy. And she tries to
dress herself up, and she tries different hairstyles, and she

(39:46):
tries different makeup, and she tries different dress combinations and
how to button up her dress and all this other stuff,
to the point where she then just puts her phone
on the nightstand, goes over to a chair and sits
solemnly by herself in the window, because she's like, I'm
not going out at this point, Like there's nothing I
can do to make myself look even remotely the woman

(40:06):
that I want to look when I sit down opposite
this guy who six months ago I wouldn't have looked
twice at. But here I am in my life, and
it's a that to me is a very very very
powerful scene for like a myriad of reasons but it's
also the one scene that turned me around on the
movie because I'm like, wait, that is a scene I

(40:26):
am betting everyone can relate to.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
I'm glad to hear you say that, because I found
both times I watched it, I found the sequence when
she's because you can tell what it's building too, which
is nice that you felt the same way. You could
tell that it was building too. She she doesn't know
this guy, she doesn't necessarily like this guy, but she

(40:51):
already feels like she's not enough. And you know, she
puts on this stunning red dress and these crazy gentlemen
prefer blonde elbow gloves, and she looks. I mean, she
could go she'd go to Denny's in that, and everybody
would just be like, who cares? She could look amazing,
this is Los Angeles, Like you're perfect and wonderful like

(41:14):
and she but she she looks out the window at
the at the billboard, and she looks in the mirror
at herself, and she just cannot come to terms with it.
And she can't reconcile that what she sees with a
person that anybody would find desirable, because all the movie
has done is tell her that no old, like gross, no,
thank you, even even for a guy that told her

(41:38):
that she was the most beautiful woman in the world,
which is what he told her when he gave her
his number. And she's like, no, not good enough because
the voice inside her head that says not good enough,
that's created by everybody else is louder.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
And it was.

Speaker 3 (41:52):
It was, yeah, it was. It was very It was
a very effective and affecting scene. And when she she's
in there and she's and when she's physically smashing the
makeup of her face and she's smearing the lipstick off
with so much pressure, and like you said, like her
history informed that performance, like her personal history informed that performance,

(42:14):
and it was it was super effective, And the end
of it was just completely tragic, like it's just like,
well where do we Where do we go from here?
And I mean, one of the problems that I had
with the movie was that the whole point of the
substances you are one, that's their slogan, that it's like
you're the same person. I had no sense that they

(42:36):
were the same person. Between her and Sue, I just
didn't feel like they were the same person because because
Sue's such an unrepentant bitch. She's just such a monster,
like a vacuous smiley like. I just couldn't understand that
this person who's like made this choice out of despair

(42:59):
common age than when she discovers herself. When she discovers
this like that she's technically the same person, just with
like a really nice ass like suddenly she's like she
takes on this persona of like this ditsy thing. I
guess it's like cathartic for her. It's just hard to

(43:20):
see the character that Demi plays inside the character of Sue.
That was my problem. I wanted them to feel more connected,
and I liked when when she deactivates her towards the
end and then brings her back and they're wive at
the same time, and it leads to that really quite

(43:42):
spectacular fight scene, which is again too long, but really
quite fun. Also, it doesn't make a lot of sense
because she was struggling to move originally because she's so old,
and then she's suddenly like a running around dragging him
by the ankle's ass kicker yeah, into walls. And I
suspended my disbelief because it was real fun, of course,

(44:04):
and Bloody is anything, my goodness. I liked that they
didn't really speak to each other during that time, because
what would they have to say to each other because
they're the same person, but they have more conversations when
they're alone as each individual person than they do when
they're actually together. I felt like there was yeah, it

(44:28):
was there was a lot left on the table. I
feel like you could have made a really cool movie
out of this concept, a really cool movie, and I
just feel like it tried to do everything. And also
I thought the audience was real stupid, And I don't
know if I don't know if that's a horror thing
or what, or if it's just a now.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
I just think that I think that nowadays this movie
is made again to both be wildly entertaining but also
to be very much a mess movement. And I think
when you're writing your message and you are sort of
laying out, plotting out your metaphors, at what point they're

(45:10):
going to show up what you're going to kind of
do with them, I think you probably overegged the pudding
a little bit just because you're like, well, wait a minute,
if I just say this, will they will they extrapolate
to that? Do I not need to say this and that,
you know what I mean? Like if we were just
having a conversation and we were just chatting back and

(45:30):
forth and we were throwing ideas about your brain, would
any idea right throughout your brain would be going oh
and extrapolating it, and anything that you said I would
be extrapolating it. There is a the reason why people
talk about people having a shorthand with each other. It's
because they don't need to fill in all the things
we just assume that are there. But I think when

(45:51):
you're writing a script, especially one that is clearly as
important as this is, you probably try and at least
double down, if not for down. In some occasions with
the examples of the message they're trying to put out.

Speaker 3 (46:06):
There, and the callback acts were clumsy, they were yeah,
yeah they were. There were punches in the face, it
was it was all settling.

Speaker 2 (46:16):
No, I agree. I think that though as someone who
inherently loathes ninety eight percent of television, Okay, like like loaths,
actively loaths anything that is a reality TV, competition, TV anything,
the news, anything that purports to show real things happening,

(46:39):
when actually all they show you is garbage. In order
to sell drugs in the five commercial breaks that they're
going to have during the TV you know, interspersed with
a lot of backslapping nonsense that doesn't go anywhere. I
just I have no time for any of it. I've
zero time for any and I've actually become quite amazed

(47:06):
and almost disheartened with just how popular it is amongst
almost everyone. I just see it all as part of
the problem. I just really do. But what was interesting
was in the Substance, her looking at the billboard, right,
her looking at her younger self. And this is where

(47:27):
I turned one eighty on the movie instead of me
think I thought that when I first watched The Substance,
or when I was first about a third of the
way in, I thought it was sort of advocating for this.
I thought it was sort of advocating for shitty television,
which is just men zooming up close on women's asses

(47:49):
or you know, sweaty cleavage or whatever it is. Like,
I thought it was advocating for that in some weird way.
It wasn't till after that scene with the makeup and
all the rest of it, she goes out and looks
at the billboard. That whole scene we just described. It
wasn't until after that that I was like, oh, no, wait,
it's condemning everything that is. It's condemning the because my

(48:15):
biggest problem, even as a someone who is a heterosexual
in touch with his sexuality, male whatever you want to
call it, when I see a woman on TV being
either infantilized or overly sexualized, it is the biggest turnoff.
And I'm not trying to like not fucking running for office.
I'm just saying it's like a big fucking shitty turn off.

(48:38):
It just is. It just is. Because I'm like, I
remember when, like a lot of people consider a feminist icon. Now,
so I don't want to talk, but that Britney Spears
music video was the hit me Baby One More Time.
I find insanely problematic. I find it insanely problematic. Every

(49:03):
time Miley Cyrus thinks we need to see her nipples,
I find it just wantonly problematic. But because I'm like,
I don't understand what that message is. I really don't
understand what it seems to be about the self not
it doesn't seem to be about the collective.

Speaker 3 (49:19):
Yeah, I don't know if that's the efficacy of the
movie then that it made you feel like because obviously
then the then the turn is that the movie's like,
oh no, actually, like this is dorm and terrible. These
guys are monsters, right, I mean I knew those were
monsters because they were they were men, right.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
No, A thousand seriously, I get it. I knew. And
by the way, I knew Denique Quad was a monster
from the first moment I saw him, because it was
shot relentlessly and close up while he like mopped his brown.

Speaker 3 (49:52):
And ate ol those shrimps. Yeah, yes, every instant of
him on screen.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
And I have to say I did not like the
close ups. Yeah, I did not like.

Speaker 3 (50:01):
This is part I found that part of the body
horror that it was just like so like that was
very disturbing because it was so close and it was
so disgusting. And he was like, I mean, he must
be fun to work with, man, to be just sort
of like, yeah, let's do it. Yep, we're going to
make you look hideous. We're going to make everybody cringe

(50:23):
at the sight of you. And he's like, yeah, let's
do it, man.

Speaker 2 (50:26):
I cannot believe. I mean, there's one thing. It was
very terry gilliam esque. I mean this, this movie has.
This movie has like a thousand very obvious influences. Oh yeah,
And I don't mind that. I don't mind that. It's fine.
But I mean, there's Reanimator in here, there's the fly
in here, there's evil dead in here, that there's there's

(50:48):
Terry Gilliams, Brazil, there's the Cinderella Story, There's all sorts
of things. There's a shining you know. This this wears
its influences broadly on its sleeve, which I don't mind.
It's fine because it was using them as a shorthand
for people, as a way in for people to experience

(51:10):
the story. And I think that there is a point
where you were saying earlier about the two characters not
feeling like the same woman. I think what's been interesting,
and I've been saying this recently just about America in general,
but having dealt with and met and lived around addicts,

(51:32):
I feel like America to some extent, and Demi Moore
and her younger counterpart, Margaret Qually, in this movie we're
behaving like addicts, meaning that and so there's twofold. First
of all, I don't think human beings changed that much.
I really don't. I think if you're I think of
self aware. I think if you are genuinely interested in

(51:54):
living in a better world, and I think if you
put an eighth of your brain into everything you do
on a daily basis, yes you can gradually become a
better human being. But in general, people don't make huge
leaps in thirty years. Really, in general they don't. And

(52:14):
I think what this movie was sort of saying, between
the young and the old, it's two things. First of all,
it's the idea that really, between the age of twenty
and between the age of fifty, are we meant to
believe that Demi Moore's character kind of grew that much?
You know what I mean? Just based on the fact
that at the beginning of the movie they are presented,

(52:36):
she is presented, and the world is presented as very
you know, self aggrandizing or ephemeral, very kind of plastic
and fake but also self aggrandizing. So you kind of go, well, okay,
it makes sense to some extent that like the young,
it's not like the younger version is going to be

(52:56):
any more enlightened than the older version. The older version
isn't doing any thing to combat the younger versions, you know,
constant breaking of the rules and extending the timeline.

Speaker 3 (53:09):
The older version is not enlightened in any way. She
just wants to know. She just wants to grab that
youth like there's no it's not like she has a
like a grand plan or any kind of lofty noble
cause she just wants to be young again because she
feels crappy and she doesn't want to feel crappy anymore.

(53:30):
I mean, I think for an extent, she wants to
feel young again to get the validation, because you miss
validation if you've had it, it's you know, hell of
a drug you want back again and again.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
I wish I knew.

Speaker 3 (53:44):
But yes, I've been validated in my time.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
I'm trying to think if I've ever been validated. No,
probably not on my wedding day to Kim this she is.
But yes, outside of that, no validation whatsoever. Hence why
I'm still doing a podcast like four hundred episodes in
clearly Daddy and Mommy never loved me anyway. So but no,

(54:11):
So I think that I quite took to the fact
that the commonality between the two was they really didn't
give a fuck about each other they only gave a
fuck about themselves, and they couldn't get it into the
heads that they were the same being, which is the
behavior of an addict, which is where But I wait,
I'm a good person, right, but you fucked yourself up

(54:31):
on heroin and you lost your house and lost your car,
and you fucking annexed everyone else from your life. We
know you have a good heart, but like everything you've
done is terrible, you know what I mean, Like it
just is what it is. And I felt like that
was sort of what I was witnessing. So to me,
once I'd made the leap that I was like, oh wait,

(54:53):
it's condemning all this shit. It's not endorsing it, and
it's not tacitly endorsing it, like by cond it, but
really kind of endorsing it, like you know what I mean, Like,
oh yeah, no, this is terrible, but like women, we
should still look pretty right, Like it wasn't doing that,
and I was worried that it was sort of doing that.
It It very much was condemning it. Once I realized that,

(55:15):
I had a much better time with it. And I
think that when you think of the ending is both
absolutely hilarious and absolutely horrifying because the way that the
blob thing monster that she becomes spoilers for anyone listening

(55:38):
who hasn't seen the movie. Go watch the movie now.
She becomes a blob monster.

Speaker 3 (55:43):
After who gives.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
Yes, who gives a birth to a face tito? She
follets a boob face boob face boob. She she she
births a face boob. But she heard like cellotaping.

Speaker 3 (56:11):
Face with the eyeholes stubbed in and the lipstick sneered on.
It's remarkable, it's.

Speaker 2 (56:17):
Really I mean that to me, that warrants the movie's
existence right there, and then it was delightful.

Speaker 3 (56:25):
No, when my husband and I watched it, I was like,
this movie thought we were stupid. It treats the audience
like they're idiots until the last twenty minutes when they're like, oh,
guess what, I'm an idiot too, Like let's be stupid
together and let's have a really fun time, Like let's
forget all of the like meaning and let's just get like, sure,

(56:47):
there's there's a potentially a woman, there's a blood thing
with boobs just spraying her blood over all of these monsters,
most of whom are men and everybody's just hovered in
viscera and it goes on forever and it's incredible, and
then she just like kind of explodes and then.

Speaker 4 (57:09):
Slithers, and it goes on and on and it's so good,
and it's that it's that it's that blurred line between
body horror and pure childlike comedy that I just love
so much because.

Speaker 3 (57:25):
It's it's obviously like the basic theory is like you
laugh at other people's misfortune, and that's like a human
thing where it's just it's like a relief mechanism or
a shove yeah, where it's just like, well, you know,
they're but for the grace of God, go I. But
when it's heightened to that level, and then when it's
just like when you're like, oh here's a logical stopping point.

(57:47):
Oh no, they keep going okay, Well there's another logical
stopping Oh no, some more. Oh she's exploded, Oh she's okay,
and it just goes on and on. It's hilarious. It
was so funny.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
Well that's when we were talking about before, about like
Bobby Daverren stuff. We were talking about kind of the
comedy that like we grew up with and the kind
of stuff that we were into, and the fact that
you know there was the phantom rassebery blow or whatever.
The two Runnie sketch was that when I was like six,

(58:22):
really scared the Jesus out of me. It generally did
like him with the big black cloak and the scary
top hat, like scared the Bejese out of me. And
then at ninety years old, when it was the twentieth
anniversary of Monty Python, they did a compilation show and
halfway through they showed Sam Peckinpa's Salad Days, which is
a sketch in which a lot of very like oh

(58:44):
Hello Mama, Hello Papa, British gents holding tennis rackets end
up in a huge cacophony of like Gore basically, where
the guy's playing piano, someone slams the piano lid down
on him and he lifts his bloody stumps up. That
starts being blood everywhere. There's another guy who gets a
tennis ball thrown at his face. He goes ah like

(59:05):
that as it hits his eye, and then blood starts
spraying out of the corner of his eye, and it's
called Sam Peck and par Saladays and it's meant to
be how ridiculous it would be to put like a
Morgan Creek costume drama Pride and Prejudice BBC type thing
along with a Sam Peckinpa like violent gorefast yeah, and
you put them together. And I remember being nine watching that,

(59:26):
running through to my parents and being like, I don't
think I can like Munty Python anymore. That's the worst
thing I've ever seen in my life because I was
so squeamish. It was so squamish. And it wasn't until
I was about fourteen and I had bought the Book
of the Meaning of Life because I was still a
huge Python fan. I just couldn't watch the gory boats.
And in the big middle of the Meaning of Life,

(59:48):
the guy in the live organ transplant sea sequence has
his organs removed. It's just that's that's what happens. And
it's Terry Gilliam and they put a knife down his
stomach and they start pulling out intestines and viscera and
gorne whatever. And I would never watch that. Whenever I
watched the movie, I would fast forward that bit because
I knew it was coming because I had the book.

(01:00:10):
And then I remember going, well, wait a minute, if
I've looked at the picture in the book, and I'm
not kidding, the center, the centerfold of the entire book
was Terry Gilliam lying on a thing covered in blood,
with like intestines hanging off his body and everything like that.
That was the centerfold of the Meaning of Life book
if you bought it. So I went, well, hang on

(01:00:32):
a second, if I can look at this picture, I
can watch it on film, like what am I worried about?
And I remember putting the VHS in when my mum
was out, so I didn't like if I got scared,
i'dn't have to deal with that, and watching the Meaning
of Life and suddenly going, oh, I'm fine. None of
this bothers me. It's good, it's fine, I'm fine. And

(01:00:53):
from that moment on, Yeah, from that moment on, I've
been able to appreciate not only horror, like full on horror,
but I think this wonderful, beautiful, fine line that most
of our favorite horror films growing up walk, which is
the comedy horror line, which is the you either want
to get a laugh or you want to get a scream,

(01:01:14):
but you better be getting some reaction from an audience.
And I sort of love that it's horror and comedy
both being two sides of the same coin, but they're
also the only genres in film that rely on a
visceral reaction from the audience. You have to laugh or
you have to scream. Like, if you're not doing either one,

(01:01:37):
it's not a good horror movie. It's not a good comedy.
And if I so, I think that the fact that
comedy horror is and by extension, kind of body horror
and other stuff like that is so prevalent is because
of those two seemingly antithetical ideas that actually play very

(01:01:58):
well together because it's all about action, it's all about
their reactionary genres.

Speaker 3 (01:02:02):
Yeah, yeah, it's a it's a it's in a covenant
with the with the audience in a way that most movies,
most styles of movies aren't. Like you don't get that
if you go to see a Transformers movie, you don't
have a relationship with what's on screen in the same way.

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
Yeah. I mean, occasionally an action movie will make me
go like yeah, like just a little like like it's
not a big movement, but it's just a little like
what you know, like at the end of a sports movie, well,
like you know where like you know, the the underdogs
have come out to win the.

Speaker 3 (01:02:39):
Sports specifically, is it tink Up.

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
It's definitely not tink up.

Speaker 3 (01:02:45):
That's the last sports movie I've watched.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
It would be like Best of Times with Robin Williams
and Kurt Russ. It would be a good sports movie. Uh.
But you know you get to the end when they
get when underdogs just get across the finish line for
that one time in human existence, you go, right, yeah,
like it's a little but like apart from that, no,

(01:03:10):
there aren't any other yeah, because you don't watch a
drama or a thriller, and the.

Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
Best kind of action movies really push you in that
way towards comedy as well, because really the action sequences
in I don't know, like an eighties action movie or
in something as ludicrously heightened as The Fast and Furious Is,
it's like it's pushing you. It's like I see your

(01:03:37):
suspension of disbelief, but let me just shove it a
little bit further, like let me see if you can
believe this, And it is it's a conversation between the
filmmaker and the audience that you really don't get unless
unless they're like, let me fuck with you, like.

Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
Oh no, that's fantastic, that's exactly like, that's the only
way to watch the Fast and Furious movies. And it's
not a lot of people think that it's to laugh
at them. It's not about that at all. It's about
realizing that two things that happen. First of all, they
are selling you that Vin Diesel could jump his car

(01:04:14):
in mid air while Michelle Rodriguez is catapulted from another
car hundreds of feet away to slam full on into
the windscreen.

Speaker 3 (01:04:25):
And she's like, hey babe.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
Yeah, and they're absolutely fine and they drive away. On
one hand, you go, okay, stop the fucking can we
press pause? What did I just watch? Did I just watch?

Speaker 3 (01:04:40):
Because inside you were two wolves and one of the
wolves is saying you can't do that, and the other
one is.

Speaker 2 (01:04:49):
Right. So there's there's that, But there's also the level
of genius and the level of testicular fortitude to be like,
oh no, no, no, we're not just gonna sell this
to the audience. But by the end of the movie,
someone's gonna be driving a Corvette off the top of

(01:05:10):
a fucking submerged ice submarine that's gonna be happening, and
everyone's just gonna be fine with it. We're just gonna
be like, yes, Tyree Gibson can totally drive a car
well enough on the ice without any chains on the
tires that he can drive over a nuclear submarine breaking

(01:05:31):
out of the ice and save the day. We're totally
gonna believe that the fucking carhonies on. Whoever says we're
gonna not only are we in a stage that we're
gonna be dumb enough to fucking stage this. This is
gonna be the silliest thing you've ever seen in your life.
But on the other hand, they're gonna be like, we're
gonna sell this so fucking hard that the audience aren't

(01:05:52):
gonna know whether to laugh or part of my French orgasm.

Speaker 3 (01:05:58):
Yeah, because because it's with sincerity and all of the
actions like we're doing it. Vin's like, these are the
best movies ever made.

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
Ever made, best movies ever made. But I can't disagree
with him. I can't disagree with him.

Speaker 3 (01:06:17):
They revitalized people going to the movie theater. They revitalized
big stupid like like spectacles.

Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
Tyree Gibson and Ludicrous in this franchise, I love driven
a car, have driven and no, I love them both.
Have driven a car in space.

Speaker 3 (01:06:47):
Let me just Chris baby.

Speaker 4 (01:06:49):
And.

Speaker 2 (01:06:51):
Have driven a nineties car with like a rickety fucking
rocket on the back like something out of an Acme
road Runner and wiley coyote box on the back of
a fucking nineties Volkswagon or something, and.

Speaker 3 (01:07:06):
They shoot it's.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
Just it's a Pontiac whatever it is. They shoot it
into space and they drive in space like this is
like they just went this is fine, This is fine.

Speaker 3 (01:07:24):
This is combination tv V.

Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
Yes, remember when DVD sells, We're all the like the
crux of the fulk grim of this franchise. Yes, suddenly
they're fucking Tokyo drifting and then the next thing you know,
there's like intricate fucking plot lines where Hans's dead but
then he comes back, and Jason Statham's a bad guy,
but then he's a good guy. And Kurt Russell is

(01:07:50):
like a super secret agent who shows up and is
like Vin Diesel, you are nothing but a street racer
in a tank top who's mildly misogynistic and most definite
most definitely questionable of ego and other stuff. Uh, yes,
you should come and be super secret agents with me
and my entirely incredibly trained team. You guys who seem

(01:08:14):
to be able to drive pretty fast, come be secret
agents like Helen Mirren.

Speaker 3 (01:08:20):
You want to take a turn in these movies, And
She's like, whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
Oh, Mirron is all over that ship. Mirron is. Mirren
is loving every goddamn second of being in the Fast
and Furious franchise. I just want to see a scene
where it turns out that her and Dame Judy Dench
are like rampant lesbians in the best way, in the
in the way that you want in like a big
exploitation movie where just Mirror and Dench that just it's

(01:08:46):
just incredible, and it's it's passionate, and it's everything you
want to see in a in a Fast and Furious movie.
The only objection I have to those films, and I've
loved every single one of them. The biggest objection I
have is that the big bad that they've chosen for
X Fast X and Fast X Part two, which is

(01:09:10):
just you're at Fast X Fast eleven is not like
it's not a problem for people you don't need to
Fast XS and Fast X two just ten and eleven
and twelve and thirty, Like, it's not a problem. You
don't have to be yes, you don't have to be
coy about it. It's like Harry Potter, like, oh, we've
broken the last movie into two movies. No, you haven't.

(01:09:30):
What you've done is you've not edited enough. Is what
you've done. That's that's what you've done. But no, the
Fast X part one, the fact that it's like a
highly effeminate Hispanic is like the big bad guy. I
find I find just a little distasteful.

Speaker 3 (01:09:52):
We'll see, well, I mean, who fucking knows what's going
on with this thing? Like right, because I feel like
after the fifth one, it's like it was like it's
like twenty four, It's like, how could you sharp jumped
so early? It's like how many sharks are there? And
it turns out there's infinity sharks and they just keep jumping.

Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
Did well.

Speaker 3 (01:10:15):
It's like it's like those seasons.

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
Yeah, No, twenty four is exactly the same way. Also,
what I hated about twenty four is you could have
cut out three seasons of twenty four because the worst
thing about twenty four is is to extend the seasons
to twenty four episodes, you had to have at least
twelve of those twenty four episodes. People being like, oh,
come on, we can't let Jack Bauer do X when

(01:10:41):
you know full well that's six episodes from now. Jack
Bower is going to very.

Speaker 3 (01:10:45):
Much most to actually be doing X. Yes, that's his
whole thing.

Speaker 2 (01:10:50):
Why did we have to sit through five episodes of
fucking pearl clutching and fucking neck ringing just just squares.

Speaker 3 (01:10:58):
Don't get it, Jong, those square I didn't understand what
Jack was capable of.

Speaker 2 (01:11:02):
Give Jack Bauer a pickaxe and a machine gun and
industrial sized tub of loube, and we've got all our
problems solved. Jack Barwer is the man give you market.

Speaker 3 (01:11:17):
Listen.

Speaker 2 (01:11:19):
Who got hooked on Heroin? Winged off Heroin in the
space of like three days?

Speaker 3 (01:11:25):
It was the same season, John, I think it was.
I think it was.

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
It was all in within twenty four hours? Is that
what it was?

Speaker 3 (01:11:31):
Four hours? He's like, you know what, I've still got
the track marks, But I'm okay, Yes, because Jack bow
the aforementioned coons.

Speaker 2 (01:11:41):
Yes, listen, Peter Weller was a bad guy in season five,
and Peter Weller was a legend in that. That's where
Peter like Peter Weller from Robotcop to twenty four season five.
That's that's the sweet Peter Weller spot. Anything within those two.
Between those two, Peter Weller is at the top of

(01:12:03):
his game. He's a bebop scat genius jazz cat. No,
he is. Peter Weller is a whole vibe. I've interviewed
him and it was nice, quite a trip, quite quite
a trip. It was a bebopping cat scat jazz cacophony
like you've never seen anyway. Going back to the substance, significantly,

(01:12:28):
we did veer vastly to the left with a whole
bunch of random cobblers the substance. I think that one
of the other things that persuaded me to love the
film as I think as much as they do now,
even with all of its faults, is that there have

(01:12:51):
been a series and it's the same way I sort
of feel around the Terrifying franchise. Terrifying Franchise. It's not
made for men. That's in the Terrifying Franchise I've seen
a thousand times, and then some the Substance. Again, Like
I said, the influences were very obvious to someone who'd

(01:13:12):
sort of seen all the movies that play into this movie.
But there's two ways to look at that. There's the
grumpy old man way, which I'm one hundred percent guilty of,
where you kind of go, oh, they're just recopying what
we did in our fucking youth and blah blah blah
blah blah. And then there's the other way, where you go, hey,
that's something that I really love. I hope the next

(01:13:35):
generation really loves it too. And So when I see
movies like The Substance or Terrifier, or In a Violent
Nature or Long Legs or Arcadian, any of those kind
of movies that I've stop motion, any of those movies
that are on Shutter or coming out on big Hollywood services,

(01:13:55):
I am seeing a move back towards exploitation, towards graphic horror,
towards violence in cinema and sex in cinema in a
way that pleases me because it feels like we're on
the precipice of another counterculture. It's like you're about to
get another punk era, like.

Speaker 3 (01:14:15):
A Tarantino George Lucas kind of effect where it's like
the influences are very stark, and they're a little sometimes
they're a little like kind of shoehorned in, but the
influences are the influences, and potentially they'll draw people back
to whatever it is that they're being influenced by, whether
it's Rachamon or war movies or these like classic body

(01:14:39):
horror movies like who Knows, like it's you know, it's uh,
it's I think it's easier now to know more about
everything now being now and not when you and I
met and it was like, what was it like LimeWire?
I guess like maybe on a computer in the library,

(01:15:02):
because you don't have one at home if you don't
have the internet home. So it's just like I'll go
to library and I guess I'll download a song and
it'll take twenty five minutes and I'll probably hate it.
Or like you would read the liner notes of a
CD that you liked, or you would buy a sampler
from a record label or whatever, and now you could
just find anything.

Speaker 2 (01:15:19):
Yeah, when I first met you, there was my friend
John who was up in Edinburgh, and what we used
to do and we used to do this when we
were in secondary school as well, because we're in different
secondary schools. We used to send each other audio cassettes
sixty minute or ninety minute of like whatever we were
listening to right now, and then we would each go
into each other's record stores in our neighborhoods and search

(01:15:43):
out like I remember finding telephone call for Miss tambul
by Tom Waite's on one of his audio cassettes and
immediately going to the local record store going to the
Tom Waite section being like, which album is this on?
Because he didn't write the album, he just wrote who
it was. Yeah, So that's how I used to kind
of like developed my music at that time. And similarly

(01:16:03):
with films, it was all down to who you knew,
who you were introduced to, what their upbringing was, what
their video rental experience was. And I remember being I
remember knowing that I was a big fan of Bruce
Campbell from the Evil Dead trilogy, which is sort of
my big exposure to it. And I remember starting university

(01:16:25):
and my friend Adam Parks, who I still know today
is awesome, taking me aside and being like, have you
ever seen Sundown? A vampire? And Retreat, and I was like,
I didn't even know Bruce Campbell was in other movies.
There wasn't IMDb, there wasn't anything. I was like, I
didn't know he was in anything other than the Bruce
Campbell's The Evil Dead trilogy. And here my friend Adam

(01:16:45):
was like, look at this VHS. I'm like, he's in
other movies. Like I got super fucking exciting. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:16:50):
And so as those journeys were for us, like I
really I really enjoyed finding out things the way that
I find found things out. But at the same time,
I just I'm so delighted for young people now that
it's just like, oh, if you want to go on
like a two day deep dive on Union songs from
like Cold Country, Turn in the Century, you can just

(01:17:12):
do that, Like you can just do that and you
can just find it in.

Speaker 2 (01:17:19):
That.

Speaker 3 (01:17:19):
And when I was writing, when I was writing my dissertation,
I was like, I had to like import CDs. I
had to I had to import and Andrew Dice Clay
stand up CD. It cost me. It cost me like
twenty pounds.

Speaker 2 (01:17:35):
I'm so sorry two thousand and four. I'm so sorry. Man.
That is so that's such a painful memory. I feel
that deep within you that you are you are, you're
still feeling the Andrew Dice Clay conundrum.

Speaker 3 (01:17:49):
I chose the topic I chose, and I believe I
am now on a watch list because I purchased a
CD equaled own as up the boards leave to cover
up the butt I know.

Speaker 2 (01:18:09):
And what's funny is I think, up until you're telling
me that story, the only other like visceral memory I
have of you showing me like something that you had
bought was when you came back from the States and
you had bought The Outer Limits on VHS and you
were very exciting that you had bought The Outer Limits
and brought it back from the US. So you've gone
in my estimation for the Outer Limits to butt's covering

(01:18:33):
up in cover. Yeah. No, I'm kidding, but no, that's
I remember you bringing that back from the States and
it being like a oh, like, oh my god, the
Outer Limits.

Speaker 3 (01:18:43):
Yeah. I got an Out Limits box set. I got
a Mystery Science the at a box set. Geez. I
spent a lot of money on that trip. Yeah. Yeah.
I just love the fact that, like, if you're curious now,
you can find out pretty much anything and you can
be It's so easy to be cool.

Speaker 2 (01:19:02):
No, completely, one hundred percent, and I think that, you know,
I it's so difficult because I felt like I had
a lot of hope that what I was seeing in
the geek nerd, horror fandom, whatever kind of community you
want to call it. But the fact that we had
in some pop culture way inherited the earth, and in

(01:19:24):
the fact that dialogue around those things were becoming more
prevalent and you could own certain stuff because cool whatever
that is, it actually comes down to knowing yourself and
owning what it is you love. Yeah, you can. If
you fucking love Neil Diamond, Like if you love Neil

(01:19:47):
Diamond more than anyone has ever fucking love Neil Diamond,
I will like love you unconditionally because it's to do
with you just loving a thing. Not in a confrontational way,
not in a in a competitive way, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:20:02):
Not getting keeper, just genuine like this is my thing
and I love it. It's like, I know what that is.
The thing is different, but the feeling is very much
the same, right. I know. For a long time I
was desperate to be cool. Even when we met, I
still very much wanted to be cool and I had
an idea in my head of what it was and
it was always unattainable. Somehow I just didn't I just

(01:20:25):
didn't like have it or whatever. It was like the
music was wrong, the closes, the row, everything was wrong.
It's because the quest, the quest for cooler was always
like a location. It's always external, like it's it's always
out of control as well, it's always somewhere else. And
when you just like give it up as like, it's like, Okay,

(01:20:46):
I'm thirty one and I'm still not cool. I guess
I'm just never going to be cool. Like I'm not
Joey Ramon, I'm Jerry Rafferty. Yes, that's just that's just
who I am.

Speaker 2 (01:20:58):
Yeah, Like I'm not wrong blow In Sonama's Fire, I'm
Andrew McCarthy. In Sonawa's Fire.

Speaker 3 (01:21:06):
I am straight up James Taylor, And.

Speaker 2 (01:21:11):
I might even be a minister as in Sonawa's Firefuck.
I might even be the guy who sings the song Sons.
But then John Park.

Speaker 3 (01:21:22):
But then you find like that's good enough for me. Oh,
I was pretty cool. I did James Taylor at karaoke
and it got a pretty good response. So I'm like
you know what, maybe it's cool what.

Speaker 2 (01:21:41):
Yeah, but that's the thing is. And I think seriously
taking it back to the substance where it plays with
this eighties aesthetic of when aerobics was prevalent, late eighties,
early nineties, where spandex was the thing orcra and where
like we talked about earlier, women were in the age

(01:22:06):
or under the guise of so called healthy activity, were
sexualized or infantilized in the way that actually the very
early what they call new d qtis were where it was,
you know, women and men on the beach in a
nudist colony, like throwing a beach ball back and forth
from each other or whatever. It was, this sort of

(01:22:28):
weirdly chased yet weirdly erotic kind of nonsense that doesn't
bear any kind of chorus full correspondence to human sexuality.
Was it was just the thing. So and I think
that the substance to some extent examines what we're talking about,
whether whether it's examining the sexuality of women on TV

(01:22:50):
or whether it's the what is cool, what is acceptable?
What is whatever? And and I think what I loved
about it was that I felt like Demi Moore was
asking those questions too, like as an actor, like where
am I now? I was an icon in the eighties,
I go in the nineties? Are I gone in the
early two thousands? But like where am I now? What

(01:23:11):
am I now? Where do we go from here? And
what is sort of the next wave? And listen, I
think that she's I honestly think that we'll look back
at this time and realize that she's like she has
been every step in her career. She's been ten steps
ahead every time. Yeah, I think she's she's right at
the tip of the zeitgeist. Without again, I sound incredibly pretentious.

(01:23:33):
I'm sorry about that, and I apologize, But what I
mean to say is just I see whether it's like
I say, Terrifyer or stop motion or innviolent nature or
the Substance or whatever or ex Perl and Maxine, which
I just covered on my friend's show, but whatever, those
movies that have been coming out in the last five

(01:23:55):
to seven years, those films are pushing us back in
to a punk era of filmmaking, of music, of pushing
the envelope, of kicking back at authority, of screaming into
the void. And it was when I got to the
end of the substance, and I started to think about it.
It was like, if I turn my back on the substance,

(01:24:17):
if I go with just how I felt in the
first half of the movie, I will be turning my
back not just on a movie that I think begs
to be seen no matter how you feel about it,
but also a movie that, if I look into my heart,
is doing everything I wish movies had been doing forever.

(01:24:38):
And so I feel I feel like I must support
the movie, even though we can certainly talk about where
it didn't live up to a lot of the message
it was trying to purport, and where it also didn't
live up to the audience because it felt like it
needed thirty minutes where ten minutes would have done yeah

(01:24:58):
with almost every bit of the yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:25:00):
And as much as I feel broadly speaking negatively about it,
when I watched it and again when I rewatched it,
i watched it the first time, I could not stop
thinking about it, and I was on a quest to
find someone to talk to about it, because I talked
to Chris about it, my husband, and we talked about it,
and I was like, I'm not satisfied with this conversation.
I need to talk to more people about it. So
I'm like my buddy over here, Andrew, who watches a

(01:25:22):
lot of movies, I'm like, you need to come to
my house and talk to me about this movie. Like
my friend Lily, I'm like, I need to talk to
you about this movie. And I've just not really gotten
to grips with it, and it is It's just I mean,
we didn't really talk about the movie that much, but
we kind of got a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:25:39):
Yeah no, and then listen, I'm fine right now if
you are. But if there was stuff about the movie
specifically that we wanted to get into, I'm happy to
get into it. I think that what I love about
the film is and what we should try and embrace
in kind of any again with that one in sand potent,

(01:26:00):
just kind of artistic thing we come across is did
it make us want to talk? Did it make us
want to think? Did it make us want to have
an emotion?

Speaker 3 (01:26:10):
And it didn't maybe have several, which is more than
I can say for a lot a lot of movies. Yeah,
Like I saw I saw Saturday Night and I thought
it was great. I thought it was super fun, laughed
a lot, enjoyed the fact that it was like ninety
three minutes love that watched it fantastic, left the movie
theater and I was like, I'll probably never think about
that movie again. Yeah, because it was it was fun,

(01:26:33):
it was well done, it was a thing. But I'm like,
it didn't really invoke anything in me.

Speaker 2 (01:26:40):
You mean, it feels like well worn territory, Like I
know Chevy Chase was a deckhead and I know who
dan Aykroyd and John Belushi were like, I mean, I'll
go see it, but like, I don't know what it's
telling me. I care it's cute.

Speaker 3 (01:26:57):
And it's fun, and it's better executed than I thought
it would be, and it's entertaining and it's interesting I
guess like how it's shot and everything, but like, yeah,
it didn't. They didn't make me feel much of anything,
because it's like, oh, our lime, I know about that.

Speaker 2 (01:27:11):
Yeah, I've watched documentaries. Yeah, I'm good. I owned the
first five seasons on DVN.

Speaker 3 (01:27:17):
Yeah, in amongst the Andrew guys, Clay, I did watch
thee Mester Now as well.

Speaker 2 (01:27:20):
Yes, exactly. I'll never forget at college watching the very
much illegal copy of Clockwork Orange on a fuzzy VHS
tape in public as they were showing. This was before
I went to Wickham. This was like at six from
college eighteen, and I was sat in the library watching

(01:27:43):
this tape and it just happened to be the evening
that they were showing like prospective people around the library.
And I was sitting there watching on fuzzy VHS Malcolm
McDowell with a giant porcelain pallas uh, and I just

(01:28:07):
I looked behind me to see this like very obvious
tour group and I just went oh, and I paused
it and turned it off for that minute till they
went back. That's that's how old I am. So what
about Margaret Quali in the movie? So, I mean, obviously
Dennis quaidon to me more, these are like eighties icons
who are now seeing in a whole new light. What

(01:28:29):
do we feel about Margaret qual Well?

Speaker 3 (01:28:31):
I mean, for most of it she was she was
just kind of a glassy eyed drone, which was the part,
and it was she played it well. I think I
didn't feel much about it. I thought she did nicely
at the end. The part that I couldn't watch was

(01:28:52):
the teeth pulling thing, because that's like a real personal
like funk point for me, I just can't deal with
another recurring personal nightmare. Another recurring nightmare that I have
is pulling teeth and I can when I see it,
I can feel it. So I had to look away

(01:29:12):
for that. We knew it was happening, but I thought
she did. She did pretty nice work there, but yeah,
I mean, it's just a hard body, I feel like
for the most part, which is the boomer because it's
like I feel like I should probably feel differently about
her given the themes of movie, but I was like,
I should think, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:29:32):
I think it's one of those things where I bet
it's more interesting for her having completed the work and
watched the work and suddenly go, wait, is this the
world I'm in? Do you know what I mean? Like,
as a actor, that is sort of early in her career.
I think she's starting out, but she's early in her career,
and so I wonder when you look back at it,

(01:29:55):
whether she thinks to herself and I have no corroboration
of this, whether she thinks of herself like, oh shit,
is that the world I'm in? Because she very much
is the avatar for the world I feel we currently
live in where everything is sexualized, everything is infantilized, everything
is dumbed down, everything is irrelevance, and everything is distraction.

(01:30:21):
And I never turned on the TV unless I've chosen
to watch a movie or chosen to watch a show,
or chosen whatever. But in general, if the TV is
on and I'm walking past it, I loathe everything that's
on it.

Speaker 3 (01:30:34):
Yes, and obviously for most of the movie, she's fulfilling
the you know, the expectation of a beautiful woman, which
is a pliant, smiling doll, which is fine. And then
obviously there's.

Speaker 2 (01:30:52):
Only attractive to a certain section.

Speaker 3 (01:30:55):
Yes, not everybody doesn't do it for me. They're like
super flexible, thin lady. Like it's not my not my type.

Speaker 2 (01:31:02):
You know. I like someone I know, but I like
someone I can have a joke with in a conversation with.
That's more what I meant.

Speaker 3 (01:31:08):
More, Yeah, because she's Yeah, she's fabulous, and she's led
a life and she's incredible and she's dropped out gorgeous,
so you know, yeah, But then but then there was
a certain amount of Catharsis when she's kicking the ship
out herself effectively, like when she's punishing the older version

(01:31:31):
of herself by very slowly and brutally like killing her
as best she can. It really seems like she should
have died like eight or nine times in that fight.
But I'm not a I'm not a stunt choreographer.

Speaker 2 (01:31:44):
So what do I know?

Speaker 3 (01:31:45):
Now, you're a tiny old bag and you're just like
you can you can throw my head against like eight sinks,
and I'm basically fine.

Speaker 2 (01:31:56):
Why don't I know the name for the person who
studied his bones, like a boneologist or whatever, like someone
who knows like what pressure it would take to exert
to snap a femur or galeologist, you know what I mean? Yeah,
I don't know what Why do we not know? You
would think we should know that that that you know
what I mean? Like, I know what phrenology is, and

(01:32:18):
phrenology is insane. So if I know what phrenology is,
why is it that I don't unders know who loves
skeletons anyway?

Speaker 3 (01:32:27):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:32:28):
I don't know chiropractice. I have no idea anyway, whoever
they are.

Speaker 3 (01:32:34):
Just the lay person suggests when you when your head
hits style, you should go to the doctor.

Speaker 2 (01:32:41):
Yes, that is it. Is hilarious to me that in
its slapstick is one thing, but sometimes these action movies
go way beyond slapstick, you know what I mean. After
after the hero has had his head thrown against anything twice,
yeah he's done for Yes, he's done.

Speaker 3 (01:33:01):
For you to go down, I cannot see.

Speaker 2 (01:33:06):
There's no coming back and doing roundhouse kicks and whatever
else they're trying to sell us that these guys can
do after taking severe head DRAMs.

Speaker 3 (01:33:16):
Speak for yourself, old man, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:33:19):
Right exactly. I could take head trauma and still jump
up and do a roundhouse kick. Of course you could
alan anyway. So the substance. I feel like when we
were talking initially on Instagram, you probably had some stronger
feelings than you are necessarily explaining right now. Do you

(01:33:39):
still feel those or did the second viewing?

Speaker 3 (01:33:42):
I do think the second viewing tempered it a little bit,
because I mean, I got to tell you, watching it
at one point five speed improved it significantly, because because
you can, you can squeeze it into like the correct
amount of time. And even then, why am I still

(01:34:02):
looking at this? This is too slow? But it is.
It's just like it was slow.

Speaker 2 (01:34:08):
It needs to be divisional by three. It needs to
be ninety minutes so that you can do a three
act structure so that you audience sleep right. At the
end of the first act you reveal something, and at
the end of the second act you know how to
solve something, and then by the end of the third
act you've solved it. It's a storytelling, classic storytelling. And

(01:34:31):
I feel like this movie was a bit like, you
know that thing where women don't feel enough, you know
that thing where women don't feel enough? Like I felt
like it was sort of repetitive, which it might have
to be in twenty twenty four. I'm not saying that
that's necessarily he did.

Speaker 3 (01:34:48):
I did find it really repetitive, and the the like,
oh my goodness, I feel so seen moments were pretty
few and far between.

Speaker 2 (01:35:00):
I think, here's here's something, and am I on something here?
Or am I wildly off by setting it in the
world of the privileged already like it's setting it in
the Hollywood world? Did it immediately? Like I was predisposed
to kind of not care as much? Do you know
what I'm saying?

Speaker 3 (01:35:20):
Yeah, Like when you see a beautiful person, a beautiful,
rich person feel worthless it's like, just be worthless, man,
it doesn't matter a bunch of money, right.

Speaker 2 (01:35:33):
But I because, especially now, like as an adult and
a homeowner, and you know, as someone who has to
have you know, investments and savings and shit that I
just have, I will never no one ever taught me
any of it, So I don't understand.

Speaker 3 (01:35:47):
Any embarrassing to do. The whole thing. It's just so stupid.

Speaker 2 (01:35:51):
But it's you when they try and explain it to me,
Like when finance people try and explain to me, I'm like, so,
it's like a casino. I'm you know what I mean, Like,
I'll win a little bit, but they'll never let me
win a lot, and they're like no, no, no, no no,
but blah blah blah blah blah. I'm like, great, But
all I hear you saying is the rich people will

(01:36:12):
keep get richer and the poor people will get slightly
less poor.

Speaker 3 (01:36:16):
Here of course congressionally.

Speaker 2 (01:36:19):
Right, yes, exactly so. But as an adult kind of
going through that and having to deal with all that,
the only time that I'm like, god, I fucking wish
I had some money is when I could just make
a problem go away with it. It's not about that
money makes you happier. It's just that money solves all

(01:36:40):
the shitty.

Speaker 3 (01:36:41):
Bits that makes you sound yes, that.

Speaker 2 (01:36:43):
Make you sad. You still have to reckon with your
happiness and reckon with your health, and reckon with your
mental health, and reckon with pop culture and reckon with
you know, election results. But in general, if the like
if my heating implodes and I need ten thousand dollars

(01:37:03):
to fix my heating or I have to sit down
here and freeze to death while wearing eighteen blankets, I'd
like ten thousand dollars to throw at my furnace. Please.
It's just it solves.

Speaker 3 (01:37:15):
It's another form of privilege because it's like, yeah, it's
not going to necessarily solve all your problems, but there's
a certain amount of problems that you will not have
because you have money.

Speaker 2 (01:37:25):
Right, So it's difficult to sort of And again, I
think that that scene that I keep going back to,
where she's going to get ready for a date with
this guy from high school human It was the first
time in the movie that had humanized her, especially because
I kind of think to myself, like, when I think

(01:37:47):
of the empowered women that I have watched and liked
and love as actors, all of them together, whether it's
Jane Fonder of students around and Temi Moore or Pangraa
or whoever it is, there are in a Sigourney Waver.
There are enough throughout the decades that you just wish

(01:38:08):
there was that ground swell that was like the new
Hollywood is female, Like here is the new Hollywood, Like
here is the new directors and actors of the future,
and they're going to tell female stories. I remember when
we saw my friend Jim and I and we saw
Olivia Wilde's book Smart, and it's essentially just the feminine

(01:38:31):
version of super Bad. But I remember coming out of
it and talking to Jim and saying, you know what,
if I never see and it's not against Seth Rogan,
but if I never see Seth Rogan again, I'll be
very happy.

Speaker 3 (01:38:45):
His work is done. He seems like a very nice man,
but his work is done right.

Speaker 2 (01:38:51):
But you know what I'm saying, Like, even taking something
as superficial as super Bad and telling it with a
female perspective, with two female performers and one female director
and writer, made me wish that that's all we then got,
Like all we then got was female writers, female directors,
female performers telling female stories because I had so long

(01:39:14):
been in the zone of the male frat boy Wanka
story that even that story told through the eyes of
two females was more interesting than that story being retold
all over.

Speaker 3 (01:39:30):
It like Blockers. Blockers was fun because it was just
sort of like, oh, this is this is the girls
losing it, where the stakes are entirely different. But it
was it was goofy, and it was fun, and you
had like it was action e and you had like
silly like actors that you knew doing goofy stuff, and

(01:39:51):
then you had like new female actors doing like different
also goofy stuff. It was a little bit gross, it
was super funny. It was Yeah, it was kind of
a little bit of everything, and it was familiar about
new at the same time. And there is a certain
amount of refreshment to that. That the refreshment I got from,
like again, I gotta go back to it. The nudity

(01:40:12):
to seeing a sixty one year old woman on screen
and being like that's hot, like that's nice, and not
in like an exploitative sexy way because obviously she's looking
at it and not necessarily being into what she's looking at.
But I'm like, I can make my own call on that,
and that's nice. Like I like this, I like visually

(01:40:35):
what I'm seeing, but also I like what it means
that it's like she is doing that, and that's that's amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:40:43):
We also come to this idea that the female body
equals X, or the male body equals X, or the
whatever it is, even if it's an androgynist body, or
even it's if it's a trans body or something like that.
There is certain things that you see in your head
when someone says any of these things that you picture

(01:41:07):
just based on life experience, advertisements, TV, pop culture, whatever.
And I think that what was so good about the
substance was, again, if you were a genuine human being
who understands how messy it is, how weird it is,

(01:41:28):
how private it is, how you know complicated it is,
how whatever it is, then you are going to take
away a lot from the sequences in which, especially to me,
more is bare. Yeah, because it's not going to be objectifying.
It's not going to be it's going to be both

(01:41:51):
support and love and arousal and all those things coupled
with the empathy that we all know we come to
that point where our body is not what it was
when it was twenty five, but that it can still
be beautiful, that can still be useful, that it can
still be it can still be giving the performance to

(01:42:13):
me more as giving in this movie. Yeah, it can
still be vibrantly relevant.

Speaker 3 (01:42:17):
Yeah, it makes you address the fact that it's like, yeah,
it's fucked up to be a human soul inside the
lump of ham that we are. And it's just like
that lump of ham changes over time and just generally
like changes because it feels like it or changes because
you or wherever you are or whatever it is, like
it just kind of happens like due to what you're

(01:42:40):
putting into it, or just what age you are or
whatever it is, Like these things change and it's just
sort of like, oh, what's in here feels constant and
feels like you can rely on it, And the meatbag
is just doing its meatbag thing, and you're like, I
cannot have faith in this, you know what, it's like this.

Speaker 2 (01:42:57):
And sometimes the meatback thing goes help me, help me.
I'm a meatbag and I'm failing, And the interior side
is just like bdad but butter but and then just.

Speaker 3 (01:43:08):
Stop paying it where it's wearing a heavy gown and
drinking a glass of Chabois and you're looking in the
mirror and you're seeing the third acts of this movie.
You're like vomiting a boob, and you're like, well, what
how do I reconcile these two things? And that's just
like having a body, and.

Speaker 2 (01:43:27):
As people need to know, while Nick and I have
been talking this whole time, I have been vomiting a boob,
just PERI.

Speaker 3 (01:43:34):
But you edit it's the mouth because you're a professional.

Speaker 2 (01:43:39):
It's interesting when you were talking earlier about the final
scenes where the blob mass Demimore scream hybrid monster thing
that comes out by the way with surrounded by topless dancers,
which is incredibly meaning of life. It's like the end

(01:43:59):
of Munty by the MENI.

Speaker 3 (01:44:00):
Of life life. And at a certain point you get
you get a lady book in a thung bikini covered
in what is ostensibly menstrual blood, like to a certain
extent it is implied menstrual blood all over this thing,
and it's like, oh, that's a cool image. That's gonna

(01:44:22):
it's gonna fuck up some people.

Speaker 2 (01:44:25):
Completely one hundred, and it was wonderful to see basically
like Christmas in Heaven, which is the end of meaning
of life, with Graham Chapman in the center, playing like
a Tom Jones figure and all these sort of topless
Santa fairies in the background. It was that. But then,
like you say, am I right in reading it? With

(01:44:45):
with with this sort of monstrosity like kind of covering
relentlessly the audience in Blood is like you deal with it,
like we've had to deal with it, like we constantly
deal with it. You now deal with it? How dare
you not deal with it?

Speaker 3 (01:45:07):
Yeah? Like that, and the volume and the length of
the of the thing where it's clearly more juice than
could fit in that one physical lump that it is,
it's just it's generational. It's it's like it's gender wide.
It's just like an outpouring of all of that like

(01:45:28):
pain and yeah, all of the pain and the rage
and the frustration and the misunderstandings and the diminished impact
like all of this stuff where it's just sort of
like said that they don't matter, and it's like, well,
so come this for a second. And also this is
this is you know two hundred years of fury and bile.

Speaker 2 (01:45:50):
Yes, I mean that's how I took it to be.
And it felt very visceral and emotional and angry, but
also joyous, like a release, like a scream into the
darkness or whatever, like an.

Speaker 3 (01:46:06):
Action star with a just spraying a room with a
machine gun at the end of at the end of
a movie where it's just like fuck you, Like hell
would you? Like You've pushed me far enough and this
is it and I'm just gonna like overkill, just spray
the shit out of you with bullets or with just viscera.
It's Yeah. I found it very effective.

Speaker 2 (01:46:28):
Yeah, and I thought it ended interestingly because the ending
essentially says essentially says let me rest, but it also
says let me rest, but let me be important, like
let me be part of whatever this iconography is that
is built up around her fame.

Speaker 3 (01:46:48):
Yeah, she wanted to return to her pinnacle no matter what,
So she returned as a blob of slime to her
star on the Walk of Fame and then to resolve
into basically nothing in garbage on her start.

Speaker 2 (01:47:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:47:05):
I found the I found the I thought the last
twenty minutes were a great movie.

Speaker 2 (01:47:11):
You know, I'm sure that and I don't know. I'll
need to watch a bunch of interviews with Demi Moore
about this, I guess, to see if there have been
any actual insightful interviews with her, rather than just sort
of ep K kind of puff pieces, which invariably is
what we get served about films like this. Sadly, I
would love to talk very deeply and personally with Demi

(01:47:32):
Moore about the idea of how she sees the last
third of this movie, relating to the last third of
her life, the last third of her career, the last
you know, the closing act of her.

Speaker 3 (01:47:49):
Existence and that and that's worth talking about because specifically
women in Hollywood more so than men, I strongly believe
it is still true that it, yeah, old is a
dirty word that you can't you can't age and you
can't suggest that you're getting older because it's like, oh,

(01:48:11):
if you're not Hell of Mirror, no Judy Dench, then
there's dick all for you, you know what I mean?
Like it and it's and it's not necessarily the audiences
broadly speaking don't want to see that, but it's just
like it's just entrenched in women's minds that, like, nobody
wants to see that, and it's like, I don't know, man,

(01:48:31):
I didn't mind seeing it. No, it was the whole
reason I went to the movie was to see a
sixty one year old woman like be the star of
a movie like I wanted to.

Speaker 2 (01:48:43):
Way, that's It's funny. All the people that I tend
to like in movies, whether it's sixties, seventies, eighties, nineties, whenever,
it's people who have real character in their face. I
think the thing that I loathe the most is when
I go to or a TV show or a movie
and it's just a wall of pretty people, because I

(01:49:05):
immediately go.

Speaker 3 (01:49:06):
Nothing more compelling, nothing less compelling, less.

Speaker 2 (01:49:09):
Compelling, and it's it's, you know, when you look at
the people I tend to gravitate towards, whether it's Donald
Pleasant or whether it's Peter Weller, or whether it's Wings House,
or whether it's Michael Murray, arn't you even when it's
you know, Pam Greer or Sigourney Weaver or whatever, it
tends to be people with a lot of baggage and

(01:49:34):
complications and life lived. It tends to be people with
a lot of talent and skill and things learned and
all the rest of it. And it tends to be
people who are always going to be considered, you know,
slightly lesser than, even though I think that they are

(01:49:57):
far better than.

Speaker 3 (01:49:58):
Yeah, did you see did you see Fell? The movie? Thelma? Yes,
that movie was incredible.

Speaker 2 (01:50:06):
Who is it that against? Yes, Richard, I love that, Richard. Yes,
fantastic legend. That was. James crib is one of my favorite.

Speaker 3 (01:50:17):
Actually, she was wonderful in it. The portrayal of deafness
I thought was super interesting, the the tie into an
action movie with old people, and also the fact that
it was it was a very similar movie to Beekeeper,
the Jason Stathan movie. And why did they meet this movie?

Speaker 2 (01:50:43):
Yeah, it's very weird. Beekeeper is very weird.

Speaker 3 (01:50:46):
Beekeeper is as Greensaver. It's not a movie.

Speaker 2 (01:50:50):
It's not a movie, it's it's the popular ac So
I've been a Jason Stathan fan since the first Transport
of Absolutely Ah. I love Joseph Statham.

Speaker 3 (01:51:07):
Range and the vibrancy that he brings to a role
that really just lights up the screen.

Speaker 2 (01:51:12):
Just slides up the screen. But it's depressing to have
been a staith and fan through the home Front years
and the wild Card Years and the meg two years
only for The Beekeeper, which is a much lesser staith

(01:51:39):
and rendition than say Safe or Redemption or Crank two
or Transported one, two or three. While The Beekeeper is
a much lesser movie, people have embraced it, and it's
become really frustrating. It's the it's the double standard where
on one hand, I'm like, I love Jason State the movies.

(01:52:00):
I'm glad people are discovering Jason State the movies. But
you weren't there in the beginning. Man, you didn't live
through You didn't live through Transporter three and the Home
Front and Operation Rue de Gueer or whatever it's called. God,
that was fucking abysmal. You haven't lived through that. Man,

(01:52:22):
you don't get to call yourself a fan just because
you watch The Beekeeper and you suddenly thing you invent
the Beekeeper.

Speaker 3 (01:52:27):
You're like, yeah, this is funny.

Speaker 2 (01:52:30):
No, I mean, it's funny as fun but it's not
a great state of the movie. But a lot of
people are like claiming it's a great state of the movie.
I am a purist. I'm at which even I know
is a tautology of ludicrous levels dis Yes, oh you

(01:52:52):
have no idea, Nick, I could give a dissertation on
state demonics from now until Christmas. Please no, please don't please, please, John,
whatever it is stop now. I haven't seen anything else
by this writer, director Carly fuggy Bug yet. I'm not
sure how you pronounce it, but she did do the

(01:53:14):
movie Revenge, which has been on one of my watch
lists forever. So yeah, yeah, it's been on my you know,
it's one of those that was like, oh, it went
on to Shutter or whatever, and I'll be able to
watch it on Shutter and I've kind of it's on
my list of new Ish movies to watch. But I think,
having watched and enjoyed the substance, I'd like to go
back to Revenge because Revenge, from what I understand, is

(01:53:39):
the rather exploitative and gross out rape revenge movie from
the seventies to provide by stuff like The Last House
on the Left or movies like that or straw Dogs
It Revenge is one of those. But again, told from
I've got to assume a female point of view in

(01:54:01):
the way that the substance cherry picks from any number
of either Cronenberg West Craven, Sam Raimi, John Carpenter horror movies,
but it does it through the watchful eye and the
prism of a female perspective, And so I'd be very
interested because clearly both me and the director are very

(01:54:25):
big fans of genre film just by what she's referencing
in her productions. And I'm the one person who has
said throughout podcasting, I just want to see these stories
but told from a different perspective, And so I probably

(01:54:46):
owe myself to go back and watch for Revenge. Was
there anything else you wanted to say about the substance? No,
I think that we didn't get round to.

Speaker 3 (01:54:53):
I think I covered everything that I wanted to say
about the substance, and apparently several things I wanted to
say about twenty four.

Speaker 2 (01:54:59):
Yes, listen, Jack Bauer has a way of getting into
any and all conversations. Zoe, He's amazing. You're gotta tell
like this, if you keep it something, you've got to
constantly whisper. Yeah, that's gotta really get bad on the
Larry's Like at some point.

Speaker 3 (01:55:17):
He really perfected the god damn it, Like he's really really.

Speaker 2 (01:55:22):
Just get me what I need. Zoom in on this
fucking barely third degree video surveillance camera.

Speaker 3 (01:55:31):
I'm going to TV footage from sixth Street and like wherever,
and it's like, oh yeah, we can read his license plate.
I'm like, you can't reject shit, can.

Speaker 2 (01:55:40):
Can you focus in on that? And they like press
a button and it just goes and I'm like, yeah, hey,
it's always like when they right now with AI and
they're like, download that app, but we'll make your old
timey photos look like brand new photos and you run
it through and then the photo just comes out looking
like some weird dilbook cartoon. That's know what I mean. Yeah,

(01:56:03):
this is not what happened. Like everyone's just got like
no facial features. It's just like two dots and a smile.
Everyone looks like the seven up guy Fido Dina. Everyone
just looks like that. Yeah, We've made Grammy's photos look
great and just everyone looks like.

Speaker 3 (01:56:27):
Cool reference.

Speaker 2 (01:56:27):
Joh yeah, hip reference local like up to the minute
zeitgeist reference. But no, I'll be excited to watch Revenge.
And I generally feel like the substance as much as
I've got, you know, issues with it, especially with pacing,
because I think it needs to trust its audience that

(01:56:50):
by the time we've understood what the process is, which
only takes one round of in happening, we jump forward
to what's the catch because essentially it's like a Cinderella
story or a foul story. The foul story is, you
can have whatever you want, but the catches I get

(01:57:11):
your eternal soul. The Cinderella story is you can pretend
to be a princess for a night, but like it's
all going to go back to being a pumpkin and
rags tomorrow morning, and you've got to figure out how
to deal with that. And yeah, so the substance is
kind of both those stories kind of squished into one.
And like I said earlier, we are going to jump ahead.

(01:57:33):
We are going to You've got to trust your audience
to hypothesize the next three steps ahead in the chest right,
And did you I feel like therefore we could have
lost a lot out of the first time. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:57:46):
I think we did too many, too many go arounds.

Speaker 2 (01:57:49):
But in general, if this director makes another movie, or
if this ushers in an age of comedy, horror, satirical movies,
you're here for it. Me too, Me too.

Speaker 3 (01:58:05):
I like going to the movies. I like sitting around
for a couple of hours and having a good laugh,
Like I certainly got that.

Speaker 2 (01:58:11):
Yeah, No, it was. It was inventive, it was funny,
it was gory, it was weird. And I feel like
if nothing else as we if I can leave you
with some hope after so much despair, if we can
at least enter a new it at least feels like
pop culture is finally screaming back into the void. It's

(01:58:33):
finally saying fuck it to the status quo. And if
the status quo is defined by Marvel, DC movies, remake sequels,
all that stuff, some of which I very much enjoyed,
but some of which needs to just know where to
go away. If we're about to get some punk rock filmmaking,

(01:58:54):
and this, I feel like this was definitely punk rock filmmaking.
If nothing else.

Speaker 3 (01:59:00):
Here for it, yeah, I want it because Yeah, because
the giant super blockbuster, the Marvels and the existing eyep stuff.
It's fine, and it's certainly a money spinner. But we've
been doing it for when did I start working the
movie theater. Yeah, we've been doing it for twenty years
first by man, twenty years, twenty years plus. It's like

(01:59:21):
I think it's fine if you can keep doing it
and keep going back to that cash cow, like go ahead,
but give us something else on the back end, like
use that money to make like some fun, encourage new people,
like develop new talent, like really incubate things or do
something cool like because I agree, squeeze squeeze and existing

(01:59:45):
ip is just like it's so cynical, and I just
don't think moviegoers at that cynical.

Speaker 2 (01:59:53):
Well, I think it's because producers misunderstand the lessons that
they get. So like the success of Deadpool of Wolverine,
they probably go, oh, it's the success of the idea
of comic book movies, and we just need to write
a better one, And we wrote a better one, and
now comic book movies are back in vogue again. No,
the successive Deadpool of Wolverine had everything to do with

(02:00:14):
its transgressive nature and nothing to do with its superhero Yes,
but didn't even talk about its superhero.

Speaker 3 (02:00:21):
Charismatic leading men, goofy interesting stuff.

Speaker 2 (02:00:27):
It was.

Speaker 3 (02:00:28):
It was a comic book movie in spite of itself.
In my in my understanding, I'm like, I'm like so
on the fringe of all this stuff, Like I really
haven't watched the Coming Movie in a really long time,
but my understanding of that one is like, oh, this
this is just like charismatic good actors doing something fun.
Whereas like the trailer for Venom Jesus, that thing maybe

(02:00:52):
want to slip my throat. It looked like I can't
understand Jack, I can't understand what it what either of
them is saying this sticky monster Man or the regular
human man like that, that's just mushmow.

Speaker 2 (02:01:05):
It should so be called sticky monster Man. That's amazing.

Speaker 3 (02:01:08):
I'm really I'm really bringing my my old.

Speaker 2 (02:01:12):
Tom Hardy is Sticky Monster Man in Sticky Monster Man.

Speaker 3 (02:01:19):
Making it real Nana at the end for you, Yeah,
like that. That doesn't appeal to me as a movie
because it just looks like I've seen it before, like
you did this already.

Speaker 2 (02:01:30):
Right right, well the Yeah, And I think what you
end up getting when you invest so hard in cookie
Cutter Hollywood is you start to see very very quickly
the old theory that there is really only seven stories. Yeah,
and in fact there's seven stories can be boiled down
to probably three stories. Yeah. And the interesting thing about

(02:01:56):
the new feminism in Hollywood, that's emerging, which I hope
continues to emerge at a much quicker pace, is they
might be telling the same stories, but they're telling them
in a way that we've never heard before, or we've
only heard all too rarely with like Katherine Bigelow, or

(02:02:19):
you know, occasional genre directors who you know happen to
be female and happy to stuff from a female perspective.
But in general, it's a new phenomena and I'm here
for it. But Nick, is there anything that you would
ever want to potentially promote? Do you want to tell

(02:02:41):
people where they can find you or anything like that,
or are you not interested in being found?

Speaker 3 (02:02:45):
Not particularly interested in being found? Okay, would I like
to promote? I don't know. I like going to the movies.
Should go to the movies.

Speaker 2 (02:02:55):
Go to the movies. Promote going to the movie. Yeah,
and being being a semi decent person.

Speaker 3 (02:03:00):
I mean, yeah, well semi decent person was a given,
but yeah, I mean I live in LA and it's
an embarrassment of riches over here visa B movie theaters.
So if I want to go see a brand new
movie in imax, I have like five options. If I
want to go to a repertory theater. I have one
hundred options, and they're all incredible. Yeah, like, just find

(02:03:23):
local programming, go see movies in real life, and yeah,
because it brings me a lot of joy.

Speaker 2 (02:03:32):
And I've talked a lot about the fact that a
lot of people have said to me when I moved
out of New York City, don't you miss this? Don't
you miss that? Don't you miss the movies, don't you
miss this? And I found in Connecticut, if you look
around your community, you will find people who have opened
video stores. You will find people who have got a
drive in movie theater. You will find people who are

(02:03:55):
hosting retro double bills yeah or whatever it is. And
when people say do you miss this, this, and this,
I'm like, sure, Okay, I can't go with maybe the
frequency that I used to in New York. You know,
New York had like twelve house retro theaters that were
showing back cat stuff. Connecticut has three. Okay, so I

(02:04:17):
can't go quite as frequently. But the fact that I
can still scratch that itch, I can't imagine it's just
isolated to Connecticut, New York and Hollywood. It's got to
be out there in the world.

Speaker 3 (02:04:30):
And whenever you whenever you leave a place, you're always
going to miss something like I'm sure, like yeah, like, oh,
what do you miss about living in England? John? Is
it like I don't know, like meat pies or whatever, Like, yeah,
I miss.

Speaker 2 (02:04:41):
Bobby Davro, Bobby Dava, mainly Bobby.

Speaker 3 (02:04:43):
Da For me, it's meat pies, like savory pies.

Speaker 2 (02:04:46):
Is a real savory pies.

Speaker 3 (02:04:48):
It's a real problem. I got a real sausage role
hankering a lot of the time. But the flip side
of it, Yeah, you miss things when you move on
from stuff, but what you get is ideally something better.

Speaker 2 (02:05:01):
I found my local Italian takeout place incredible, great pizza,
great everything. But I have a hankering for Newcastle's own
bolonnaise chips, which, yeah, the only place I'd ever had
bolonnaise on chips was in a Newcastle.

Speaker 3 (02:05:22):
Chips stupid regional stuff that you're just like, I cannot
get this and I want it more than anything.

Speaker 2 (02:05:27):
I want it more than anything. So I found that
the French fries or chips that the salina stares excellent.
I mean they are excellent. You can cover them in
salt and vinegar. They're like fish and chips.

Speaker 3 (02:05:39):
Proper chip shop usual, that's hard to find over here.

Speaker 2 (02:05:42):
Yes, proper chip shop chips incredible. They use the right oil,
they double fry them. It's fantastic. It's exactly what you want.
I get that, and then I get their bolonnaise meat sauce,
and I go back in time by like twenty two
years and I just go Bolonnai's French fries are the

(02:06:03):
best fucking thing on the play.

Speaker 3 (02:06:04):
Yeah, that sounds pretty good.

Speaker 2 (02:06:06):
And thank you for being on the show. It really
does mean a lot.

Speaker 3 (02:06:09):
It was my pleasure.

Speaker 2 (02:06:11):
It was. It was fantastic. Have you on the show.
And if you ever want to come back on after
this long shambalic rambling incoherent and whatever, if you want
to come back on, you're welcome to come back on
whenever you want.

Speaker 3 (02:06:26):
I will let you know. Next time I watch a
stinker that I somehow also love.

Speaker 2 (02:06:31):
Yes, that's kind of how I would describe it. Go
watching violent Nature. It's equally a stinker that I somehow lon. Yeah,
but thank you so much, Nick. This has been great.
All right, So to end this episode, this is a
song that I wrote last night. Hopefully the band Miscellaneous
Plumbing fixtures, which will either be me or some of

(02:06:51):
my collaborators. Will release the song sometime in December, hopefully
in time for bank Cam Friday, if I can write
enough songs by them. But anyway, I was writing this
last night, having lots of fun recording it, and thought,
why don't I record it in sort of a Dylanesque way.
So this is a song you haven't really heard of
before that I have dylanized or dylified or Dylan uped

(02:07:16):
or Dylan up I don't know. Anyway, this is a song,
but I do it in the Dylan style. It really
doesn't matter. Just just enjoy it, just like it's free.
You don't have to listen.

Speaker 5 (02:07:35):
Ivyd Thot's the Grand Way and Zaynsco.

Speaker 6 (02:07:43):
Really little wholes in duable miss will and quietly weird
to get in huts and pants ware downlo Moosty. I

(02:08:09):
can put up with the gal and leave him under
a masket. They'll need comfort and continue in the colcion,

(02:08:31):
really breaking free of the city. They send out sit
inside of waves from.

Speaker 5 (02:08:43):
Shoes to shoes, see me leave me down, then together
a p.

Speaker 6 (02:08:55):
And if you follow Clusy you can't trees dahers.

Speaker 5 (02:09:02):
I'm living under mast.

Speaker 6 (02:09:10):
Then you wait until the winds step Christian remote the
nations still in show by, do you walk away from
the table, lamp chairs, catching or do the raft and
then listens in solid in its refled.

Speaker 5 (02:09:30):
I'm living under the maskt have many under manski sometimes
the words these.

Speaker 6 (02:09:40):
Warrants that you fall down now and then don't clarantine,
or coming each come in city fixed sating on the
first fations and.

Speaker 2 (02:09:58):
Wading w.

Speaker 5 (02:10:03):
Being that you'll never be of you, eh. But maybe
there is wispy in the songs that we sing and
living in who is.

Speaker 2 (02:10:31):
Living into? That's how deln was that

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Season 2 - Ep 17 - The Substance

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Season 2 - Ep 17 - The Substance