Season 2 Ep 2 - Sleazy Spader Springtime 6: Easy Sleazy Does It - Matt Poirier, Ideas, Writing & Crash - The After Movie Diner Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:13):
And you join us back here forradio flange Goblets continuing coronation coverage. Weep
in here since four this morning,when the Royals greeted the day with a
traditional incineration of at least two humanclown pyramids, all of whom happily gave
her their lives for the event andsang risquec shanties as they did. So.
You'll be glad to know that thelittle incident with the escape ceremonial penguins

(00:36):
and the discarded pile of Cormo isnow under control with minimal loss of human
life. And equally good news isthat visiting celebrity Marley Cyrus has been shot
in the leg at customs and won'tbe performing well done the Boys in Blue.
Our guest in the studio now isEarnest Truffle Haddock, royal appointed gentlemen
in waiting to soon to be controversialQueen Kimilla's pet sparrow Jenny. He has

(01:00):
intimate knowledge of the Royal court,routinely speaks with the Monarch directly on the
subject of tie length in cape maintenanceand one sat next to Giles brand Rithard
a Tesco's car park and exchange strainedbut erotically charged looks through their windows before
speeding off into the night. Ernest, good day to you. The plopper
greeting is good size and weld thighsand weld yes, as it's the old

(01:26):
English word for midday. I don'tthink that's right. Don't question me,
scam. I once say lunch andsaying Les Flount as Bobby Davaux, and
never once accidentally soiled by self inexcitement. I feel like if you didn't
saw yourself, it wouldn't be somethingyou'd feel necessarily mention. I for one,
didn't think you would have sawed yourselfin front of Bobby Davreaux. Well,

(01:49):
who wouldn't Davos a national treasure,one of our finest kept secrets,
one of this sceptred Aisle's strangest andmost wonderful of birds. Who wouldn't lease
their bows and his presence? Soyou're saying you did? Then? No,
Well, enough of this dribble.What can you tell us about the
raw preparations that are happening right now? What goes into a day like today?

(02:15):
Well, I mean it's pretty normal. I'm sure homes around England do
the same. Thing, but thefootmen will be polishing all generations of the
family's feet. They use a specialcombination of lemon, rose hip, talcum
powder, little gold shavings and dockleaves. This will take some hours as

(02:38):
they will have to stop every thirteenminutes for probably another orgy or maybe even
a break for tiffin. At aroundten forty two am, King Charles will
be presented with the ceremonial mouse necklace. This necklace features seventeen freshly picked mice
that have been lacquered in fig juicesand stray painted. He has about thirty

(03:01):
one and a half minutes to complainabout the size and demand at least three
more mice be attached. All hehas to forfeit wearing his leopard print sock
carters underneath his wax pantaloons. Thistradition, of course, dates back to
the Magna Carter, and was reintroducedthat time that the Queen Mother had to

(03:23):
cover up the fact that she hadpainfully skinned and eate forty eight cheesemongers.
In nineteen seventy six, she wasa character. The monarch will be wearing
at least five separate pairs of undergarments, one of which has to be marinated
in oils overnight cooking oils, thatis, oils used for preparing the royal

(03:46):
dumplings, by which I mean tits. After everyone in the palace is at
least partially clothed, they then spentthe next four hours playing an excessively violent
form of tiddley wings, utilizing whips, chains, a jaggedy pokey thing,
some hand grenades, and a flamethrower. This is how the Ray family

(04:09):
have for centuries kept their numbers ata manageable level. You see, they
breathed like absolute rabbits with each other, and interestingly enough, this led to
Her Royal Highness, the third Duchessof Windermere, giving birth to what looked
like a cross between a baby,a rabbit and a kangaroo in eighteen forty

(04:30):
eight. That abomination is of courseseen stuffed and set upon a large velveteen
pillow at the exit of the townof London tour of its intricate drainage systems.
Then, of course, the mostexciting part of the pre seveny activities
can take place once Charles has fedon whatever winged animals the gamekeepers found on

(04:58):
the grounds. Slow in the usualcreams and jellies. Of course, they
all gather around the half for theancient ritual of listening to a podcast.
Oh I see where this is going. You can't possibly you're gonna say you
after movie Diner, aren't you?No? I bet you believe not,

(05:19):
probably not. Go on, admitit, your bastard. Oh I can't
have any fun. See I wasright, Well, give yourself a medal,
then I will, and I'll takethe last hobnob biscuit. You complete
and total bastard. Yes, that'sright, back by popular demand. Well

(05:51):
that by a deafening silence that wetook to be a reasonable demand that you're
are just too polite to make.It's the inevitably nonsensical, yet hopefully enjoyable
After Movie Diner Season two. That'sright. The first three hundred and fifty
three episodes were just season one thatis just mad. Like all good sequels,

(06:16):
in season two, you can expectus to ramp up the action,
gore expletives, gratuitous mentions of donald, pleasance, and of course, the
requisite nudity. So when you hearthis noise, let's find each ot at
tonight, remove your first item ofclothing and make it something good, not

(06:38):
just a sock or a polka dotneckerchief or something. In season two,
you're put upon and rapidly aging.Host John Cross is going to attempt to
write, shoot, edit, andscore an independent film while talking with his
guests about the arduous process and probablya movie or two for good measure.
If you enjoy the show and havepursued the record commended treatment from your medical

(07:00):
providers, why not support the showon Patreon over at pat r e o
n dot com forward slash aftermovie Diner. You can also donate to the show
directly at aftermovie diner dot com.Rate and review the show wherever podcasts are
found and rating and reviewing is possible. Even a one star review provides useful

(07:26):
insights on exactly the sort of pettyminded and wretched individual who negatively reviews free
entertainment they do not need to beconsuming. So, without further dribbling,
please put down your Lennon Meringues,silence your bowels, and rub two nearby
dogs together for the one the onlythank goodness, because any more of him

(07:49):
and we'd have to start a call. John Cross, have you been man?
Good to talk to you? Iknow good to talk to you too.
I know it's been a little bitsince we've us chatted. Yeah,
and it's all good. I'm excitedthat we're bringing back Sleazy Spade of Springtime.
So that's that's gonna be great.Oh wait, Sleazy Spider Springtime.

(08:13):
Welcome to the show. Oh it'sa Sleazy Spiders Springtime. I want you
want to know that if you pleaselist James Spadas Lias and it's gone nowhere
else to go, So listen toyour bleuses give you know is a damn
good blood and resist the earl's toflee because after role, it's two thousand

(08:35):
and twenty Dreams Sleazy spide Us springTime showe Oh, it is two thousand
and twenty dreams Seay Spider Time Shine. I think people are gonna love that.

(09:07):
I need to move my phone somewhereso that if it goes off,
the vibrations won't cause insanity in thething. Oh and I'm definitely getting rid
of my Apple Watch because it seemsto talk to me whether I want it
to or not. Yes, throwingthat across the room. Seriously, I
don't even have to like. What'shilarious is when I want my Apple watch

(09:31):
to work, and I will sitthere for ten minutes being like hey,
Siri, hey, like fucking forever, and it won't work right. And
then I can just be talking aboutanything like not even something that sounds like
that world, just I don't know, talking about sandwiches or something, and
it'll be like I can't find sandwichesand it's because I wasn't asking you to

(09:56):
fucking find sandwiches. Yeah. See, that's the one thing my wife and
I we don't have anything smart otherthan the smart phones, Like we don't
have um, you know, Alexaor serious, you know, we don't
we don't have any of those kindof gadgets and and uh, I don't
know. At some point, imaginewe're probably gonna get there, whether whether
we like it or not. Butit's one of those things we were we're

(10:20):
we're kind of bluefully happy not butit is still one of those things where
even if we don't have those things, it's like we'll be talking about,
you know, whatever we talk about, you know, something stupid like watching
Madmen and like, oh look atthis. You know that there's old frosted
flakes box on the that that looksreally cool, you know, and then
you know, you go to Instagramand suddenly you've got five ads for frosted

(10:41):
flakes, and it's like, Okay, I don't know how that happened,
but you know it's like, oh, well, I mean that that happens
as well. Like that's that's that'salso ridiculous. And it's made even worse
when you get the Apple Watch becauseit's on you at all times, right,
I mean, it's not just umwhen you happen to have your phone
there or when you have your phoneopen it you know, your watch is
like listening to you the whole time. So yeah, I get, I

(11:03):
get all sorts of bizarre commercials whereI'm like, I was just joking with
my wife about this the other day. It doesn't mean that I want to
purchase whatever the hell that says,but no, it's and listen, I'm
I'm someone who's deaf. I'm someonewho if given his you know, complete

(11:26):
druthers, right, given his likeno one else's influence in my life and
it's just me and whatever, probablywouldn't have any of their stuff. But
then, by the same token,probably wouldn't have ever done a podcast,
do you know what I mean?Like, because I wouldn't have a computer.
I wouldn't have a mic, likedo you know, I'd be living.
But but I feel like once youonce they hook you in with one

(11:50):
thing, yeah, then suddenly allother things become like an option, right,
and sometimes you just can't like wehave it and it's also so frustrating.
So so we have, uh,we have most of the main Apple
products just because we were trying tostay. So we have the Apple TV,
we have the Apple Watch, andwe have the iPhones. Right,

(12:11):
um, but then what ends up? You know, we bought a house
last year. In fact, webought a house a year to the day
on May fourth, right, wowwow wow, Yeah, it's that reason.
And what ends up happening, rightis you know we had the electrician
round and my wife wanted dimmers onthe on the lights and you're like,
okay, well you might as welljust go for smart dimmers. And I'm

(12:33):
like, what a smart them?All right? Smart dimas fine? We
got smart dems, right, sothere by one company. Then you have
like, well, I'm going togo buy a doorbell. You can't just
buy a doorbell anymore. Has tobe a smart doorbell. You know,
my doorbell to be smart. Well, your doorbell smart Okay, fine,
but it's now a different that's ringso that's a different company. The thing
that does your lights right, andthen right, and so you've got the

(12:54):
Apple TV, you got whatever,but your TV is also a smart TV,
so it has the Samsung built inapps if you want to use the
built in apps. So then you'relike, okay, fine. Then we
had a family member gift us aGoogle Home Mini for Christmas, So that's
a completely separate thing that really allI use. All I use it for

(13:16):
is timing cooking because we have itin the kitchen, so I just say
like, hey, Google, youknow ten minutes timer please? Right,
But so you have that and thenright, so the lights on one thing,
the doorbells running thing or whatever.Now we've got the new dog,
so we have like a and itwas cheap. It was cheap on Amazon,
like a cheap little wise cam.But then the wise cam for the

(13:39):
dog is like another thing. Suddenlyyou have like eighty five smart apps just
to control various parts of your home. Right. None of this is good,
by the way, if anyone's seenBrazil or Demon Seed or any of
the movies that predict like smart futureliving. None of this is good,
right, because either the technology Idon't know trap me in my home and

(14:01):
molest me, right like fucking demonscene, or it's just going to be
every morning I get up and tryand do something simple like make toast and
you know, the shower is goingto explode or whatever, like you know
in Brazil, right, so youknow, or the or the the in
Brazil all you know, the beginningthe movie, you know, all his

(14:22):
little gadgets don't really work, right, But then by the middle of the
movie, his entire apartment is destroyedbecause you have to have you can't.
You have to have government sanctioned heatingengineers come out and touch the ducts,
but he has a non sanctioned one. And then suddenly all hell breaks loose.
So we're heading there, right,That's that's where we're heading. But
anyway, I have all these differentthings, and you know, people go,

(14:45):
well, you know you can thereare apps that connect all these other
apps, right, and Apple hasone. So Apple has Apple Home,
right, which you get on yourphone standard, right, but it doesn't
integrate with every single one of them, right, So it integrates with the
lights, but it doesn't integrate withwhatever. So it's you know, it's
all insane and suddenly having bought ahome, I'm living clearly living in Brazil,

(15:09):
and any minute now my doors aregonna lock, my ring cameras are
going to start recording every move thatI do, my phone is listening to
me, and the government's going tostart shipping me, I don't know,
large amounts of fentonel or something,you know, like it's gonna something's gonna
happen. You know, I'm gonnamake a joke on the podcast this afternoon
and one of my smart things,it's going to be like, you know,

(15:31):
this guy is a terrorist, youknow, get off the things we're
gonna I'm gonna be dragged out,gonna be a political prisoner. Like something's
gonna happen, right um, Andthat's that's the world we're living in.
So it's I feel like it's oneof those things where it just it slowly
encroaches on your life. The moreyou the more you want to engage with
society. So but buying a houseis like engaging with societal norm So I

(15:54):
don't want to get too high falutin, but you know what exactly, Yeah,
you buy a house you go anotherone has bought a house, and
somewhere someone in the government has anorgasm. They're like, ah, you
see people can still buy houses,you know what I mean, like it
because someone The fact that ninety eightpercent of the populace can't afford to buy

(16:15):
a house has nothing to do withanything. And the fact that we were
only able to afford to buy ahouse because someone died, which is absolutely
true, has nothing like we couldn'tafford a house, like we afford a
house because someone else who grew upin a time when you could afford a
house died and we sold their house. That's how that happened, right,
And it's from tragedy. We trieddesperately to find a decency, you know

(16:41):
what I mean. Yeah, Thenonce you do that, all the companies
come for you. They're like,yes, we can sell them ring doorbells
and wise cams and Google Home minis. And then we were around a friend
of us house who they were movinghouse. Right, they were getting rid
of a bunch of stuff, andwe just moved into house, so like,
great, we'll pick up a stuffthere were there had some chairs and
some other stuff, right, andthe husband comes out carrying what are they

(17:07):
called Sonas speakers? A Sonas isthat right? I don't know what they're
called. I know what you mean, though, I like, yeah,
the idea, Yeah, that's right. So he comes out carying a Sona
speaker and he goes, I don'twant it anymore. You have it,
and I'm like, right, butI already have, like you know,
I have smart TVs, I havea smart Google Home Speaker, I have
like whatever. He's like, fine, but it just takes on. What

(17:29):
I didn't realize was I thought Sonaswas just like another Bluetooth speaker. Oh
no, Sonos is its own thing. Like you can't just be like play
Spotify and Sonas. Oh no,you have to go into the Sonas app,
fine Spotify, and then it deliversSpotify in this kind of truncated form,
and you're just like, there's nogetting a Suddenly, I have a
Sonos app, but I'm like,has too many things brand and it's funny

(17:52):
because it's smart up unto a point. But you can't say to Sonas like,
hey, Sona, start playing Spotifylike you can with Google Home many
you have to go into the apppand find it and blah blah blah blah
blah, and it's a great speakeronce it works. But yeah, so
it's I find myself, you know, and someone's gonna find me, like
strangled by the vacuum cleaner while theoh, the the dehumidifier we got for

(18:12):
the basement. It also has anapp. Everything is aut ya, No,
I have to say, so youmentioned the Brazil piece. Yeah,
I saw Brazil in the theater witha buddy of mine at the Indie Theater
in Portsman, New Hampshire, andthese two kind of slightly older, kind
of slightly bougie women were watching thefilm at the same time, and I'm
the kind of the earlier scene whenyou know, the main character gets arrested

(18:34):
and all of that. One ofthem turns together and goes, boy,
this is really calf ga esque.And my my buddy of course, just
like really coded on the calf gasquething, and he would call everything calf
gat esque for like the next liketwo years. Everything was calf gasque as
a joke. But I had thisimage in my head of you struggling with
all of these apps, like torturingyou, yes, and these two older
ladies watching you from like some camsomething You're like, like your vacuum strangling

(18:59):
you, all this stuff happening.They're like, Oh, that's really calf
cass. No, No, that'strue. What's going to happen is like
my wise or ring cam or oneof these cams that I now have in
my everything's filming me at all times, Matt. Yeah, but one of
these wise cams is going to captureme being strangled by the vacuum cleaner while
the decumidifier like sucks the blood outof my body or something, you know
what I mean. And I'm absolutelydestroyed, and you're right. The only

(19:22):
people they're gonna be left are likesome Monty Python style older ladies. They're
going to be watching it on somesort of weird Terry Gilliam like monitor be
like, oh, isn't it calfgaresque. Look at him there getting strangled
by the vacuum pleader. That'll teachhim to buy Hoover products, you know,
or whatever it is, right,that'll teach him to buy a Dyson

(19:45):
vacuum. Don't you know Dyson,so you know whatever it is. And
that's and to be honest, dude, if that's the way I go out,
like destroyed by my own need,my own, by the way,
my own like thoroughly middle class,semi wealthy need to be surrounded by products.
And look, look, you know, I'm totally like obviously middle class.

(20:07):
You know, I have a job, I have a house, I
have you know, all the things, right, but you know, the
des humidify. We bought a Walmart. It was the cheapest one we could
find, you know, like thewise can. We bought it. I
mean, not that I have tojustify myself to anyone. Fuck you and
your judgment's mad middle class. Wellfuck you. We're the ones that are
slowly shrinking, you know what Imean. I'm kidding, I'm kiddy.

(20:27):
Yeah, you know. It's funnybecause because you know, Tie rom compets
and you know, we've been doingthese Bruce Willis movies and somehow without the
sort of the cinematic anarchy kind ofthing that we just sort of infuse into
the podcast where we're just talking aboutcrazy ideas, We've come up with this
idea that Donald Trump should be avillain in an Emmett furl Oasis Bruce Willis

(20:48):
movie, you know, and it'sjust the idea that like thirteen minutes of
Donald Trump is a villain exactly percentof literature and movies. Sorry, yeah,
you just give me thirteen minutes andan M. Furlough wastes, you
know, Bruce Willis, mel Gibsonwhatever, movie. Yes, I just
have him tust in scenery and Ican never tell who that would offend more,
Right, Like, is it arewe offending the liberal audience? That's

(21:11):
that's listening to the podcast, butbecause they're like, you're not taking Trump
seriously enough. He's a criminal,he's a rapist. He's you know,
caused all the suffering. You know, he's get he's the fascist who wants
to completely destroy democracy. That's right, Like, there's that piece or the
Republicans, which, to be honest, I don't really care if I upset
the Republicans, but if they they'relistening to Republican I don't care if I
upset the uber left either there equallyis well, they're not, so I

(21:33):
need to be clear, they're notequally as bad. Right, the uber
left are just annoying. They're annoyingto the point where you just want to
smack him around the face and goshut up, have a hamburger and stop
taking life. So seriously right,the people on the right a fascists.
So yeah, I want to beclear, they're not the same, but
they are. I put them outof my life in equal measure, if
that makes any for sure. Short, I think with with with time,

(21:59):
I sort of just this this ideathat I don't even know where it came
from. I think it was justone of these things where we're just like,
I think they had a really badvillain in the movie that really wasn't
that compelling, and we were alllike, what if it was just Trump
like what you just had? Youknow, It's like he needs money,
right, and and of course hedoesn't need money because he's so good at
grifting off of his supporter. Leas'slike, oh, do crisis has come
up, you know, and youshould give me more money, and they
just do. But no, toput it into a movie terms that I've

(22:22):
never been able to understand, andthis this is the thing, you know,
I was try and think of stuffwithin my wheelhouse. I can talk
politics and religion and whatever with thebest of them, but I try and
think of things in terms of movies, right, or music or creativity or
art or whatever. And what I'venever been able to understand ever about the
Republicans that I come across now inthe world, right, Not even the

(22:45):
ones that I get sold on socialmedia, which you know they're the Boogeyman,
right, but the ones that Icome across in real life and I
talked to and I suddenly go,oh, okay, right, you know,
it'll be a perfectly no more conversationfor an hour, and then they'll
say something about like, you know, um, but of course my car
would be a lot better if itweren't for black people, and you go,

(23:07):
wait what sorry? Once the cargot to do where did that connection
come from? And then you know, I mean suddenly goes down, suddenly
goes down a road where you're like, I don't even understand what? Wait?
Sorry what you know? I meanif it wasn't for the lgbtqs,
we could get the roads fixed.I'm like, what what's that? Sorry?
You're disconnected? You know? So, Uh, It's true. I've
had those conversation. I'm just like, how did who well, if we

(23:33):
weren't spending all this money on transpeople, who's spending money on trans people?
Where's that? What? Sorry?What? Anyway? The thing I've
never been able to understand about Republicans, and by which I mean people who
believe capitalism and corporate tax breaks beyondeverything else, the people who will literally
be like, you know, wecan never ever charge these people any more

(23:56):
than what we're charging. I believethat they're the job providers. I so
fiscal republican, whatever you want tocall it. Right, every single book,
every single movie, and every singlesong ever written. Right apart from
like the few that Hercules is inwhat's his name? Apart from the few

(24:22):
weather like God is not Dead,here's a bunch of Republicans in a movie
that no one but three people aregonna watch. Apart from those films,
I'm talking about every I'm talking aboutall the normal, average creative films.
The fat cats or the piggies orwhatever you want to call them are always
the bad guys. Yes, alwaysthe bad guys. The billionaires are always

(24:45):
the bad guys. The big,flabby, idiotic, eat the poor are
always the bad guys, and Ihave been since the dawn of literature,
you know what I mean. Likethere's you know, like the big chieftain
or whatever in some story who's likeabusing his people, right right, that's

(25:06):
like those are the bad people inancient stories, right, Like there's always
some big fat bastard using all hispoor, emaciated weak servants and citizens as
peons or slaves or whatever, andthe big fat is always the like,
they're always the bad guy. Sowhat were these people raised on? Did

(25:27):
you read these books and go,No, it's perfectly legitimate that the chieftain,
you know, enslave all of theirpeople. And maybe I'm using the
word chief, you know, Ijust mean the big, big bust,
the big guy whatever, the bigfat guy who sat there using everybody else,
as you know, either cannon fodderor slavery. Those people are always
the bad guys in every story.Did they read them and go, I

(25:49):
feel sorry for that guy? Hegot a bum rush in this story?
Like, I don't understand it.You know what it is? The big
difference between America and like in Europeis that, you know, in England,
you know, you have the classsystem, right where like, no
matter how rich you get, right, you can't enter into that class that
you can maybe marry somebody, butfor the most part, well you have

(26:11):
that here as well, Make nomistake, But yes, I know what
you're saying. You have it butthere's a myth around it here in America
that anybody can and they use thatmyth. The one thing I will say
that I find very interesting because it'sone thing to divide things up by race
and gender and sexual orientation and country, country and culture and whatever. But

(26:36):
here's a human nature side of this, right, coming from two countries people
assume are very similar, the UKand the US, just because they are
the big capitalist, corporate empirical uhgoing around the world trying to warn everything
people's right, right, predominantly white, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah,

(26:56):
very very similar. Here is thedifference. In America. You get
very little for your tax dollars,social security whatever, right, and everything
is a struggle, and everything ismost people will even me, even mister
cushy white English middle class heterosexual male, will work until he drops dead most

(27:19):
likely, right, We'll have tohave some form of job or income or
something until he drops dead. Rightin that country in America, with all
these issues, everyone I've more orless everyone I've come across, it doesn't
matter what again political party, yousubscribe to, what religion whatever. And
I've spoken to a lot of peoplein lots of different states. All of

(27:41):
them have not a firm belief thatthey'll become a millionaire billionaire. I think
that's what we're kind of sold bythe media, that everyone thinks they're going
to become a billionaire. I don'tthink that's what people. I think the
pervading sense I get from Americans whenI speak to them is that they'll be
able to be themselves and do whatthey want to do right. Most people's

(28:04):
fight in this country is, youknow, I just want to do this
thing and be this person. Andthe truth of this country. Not for
everyone, I understand it. I'mnot talking for people outside of my groups
of people that I may have spokento. I'm just talking anecdotally. But
most of the people I've come acrossare optimistic is a good way to put

(28:26):
it. And they are you know, have a go, people like just
go have a go, do itright. So if you show up an
American, you go, I wantto start a store, and all this
store cells is big nomats with bellson the end, that's all this thing
an American. If you stop themon the street and go I've had this
idea, an American would go,that sounds great, Go go do that

(28:49):
right. If you see in Englandlike, hey, I really like acting,
I think I might want to trainto be an actor, which is
not as ridicul list is wanting ahat store that only sells big nohads would
beild on there. Every single memberof your family, let alone strangers.
Every single member of your family,people who love, respect and cherish you

(29:12):
to a person will all go.Have you thought about being an accountant?
The pervading sense in the UK,at its best is realism, and at
its most normal is pessimism. Ithink that's where I see the big difference.
And the interesting side of that isyou would think the country where you

(29:33):
get handed more by the government wouldproduce more innovation and more entrepreneurs, and
in fact the converse is true.So that's the only thing I would say
in favor of the American system.It might fucking suck for those who are
in it, but it does.Weirdly, human beings somehow need to know
that their overcoming adversity to sort ofsucceed in something. It's sort of this

(29:56):
weird human nature thing. If theyjust get hand it has no value to
them, Like if someone just comesalong and goes, hey, I bought
you a store, and I madethe first hundred big nome hats for you,
go ahead and run a business.The very next day, you would
cut to someone that person who hada dream of doing a store owner,
you know, injecting heroin into behindhis balls because he didn't feel like he

(30:19):
earned the fucking store that he was. Do you know what I mean?
Like, that's that's human nature andit's in its essence, I think.
Yeah. One of the funny thingswith it with that, when we talk
about that, is that every timeI would be in these like um,
these get to know you events,right, you know, if I'm starting
a job or something like whatever itis, you know, an orientation or
something, there's always like yeah,and I was like, what's your dream

(30:41):
job or what's you you know?And I would always put trust fund,
baby, that's my dream job.Yeah, and I think I have to
have a job. They would thinkI'm I was kidding and I was like
no. And but one of thequestions I would always get about this is
like, well, wouldn't you bebored if you didn't have anything to do?
When I was like, what doyou mean if I didn't have anything
to do? There are so manythings that I would do as a trust

(31:02):
fund baby. I would travel allover the world. I would write novels
all day. I would watch moviesand watch whatever movies that I wanted to
watch whenever I wanted to watch them. Because there are millions of movies out
there. I don't know millions,but thousands, you know, hundreds of
thousands of movies. There's movies thatI haven't seen that I've always wanted to
see that you know, when Igo through my TUBQE, I could clean
out my tubque. And it's funnybecause you think about like being rich,

(31:26):
right, you clean out your Amazonwish lists or always something like that.
But really, the commodity that wehave the least amount of his time,
and the reason why we have solittle time is because we're always having to
spend money. Right. I mean, if I was a trust fund baby,
not only would I not have towork, right, but I also
wouldn't have to run errors unless Ireally wanted to go out and run an
errand right, I could just haveeverything delivered to me and it wouldn't matter
because money is not an issue.And it's funny because you hear this a

(31:51):
lot in America. This idea oflike no, no, I need to
work because for whatever reason. Andit's like you know, I mean and
you saw it, right, Wesaw it during the pandemic when people had
too much time on their hands.They were making they were doing things like
making sour dough bread and like,look at how great am for making sour
dough bread. And it's like,you know, right, like like there
is this mindset of like they youalmost like you're it's part of your identity,
like you have to work. Andit's like, yes, I like

(32:13):
my job. I like doing whatI do for work. But if suddenly
somebody came to me and said,hey, Matt, I'm just gonna give
you, you know, millions ofdollars to just be you know, I
don't know what the term would be, like confirmed not a confirmed bachelor,
not like you know, like it'slike, yeah, you let us get
to stay home for the rest ofyour life. Yeah, you don't yourself
into the right. But I thinkthat there's also a human nature thing whereby

(32:35):
and I know what you're saying aboutthe pandemic, like people did sort of
rally around and kind of start eithercreating or baking or doing whatever. But
um, but that was almost thatthat was almost in response to a crisis,
right, So that's a slightly differentthing. When I've been unemployed,
and it's not been a lot inmy life, but the couple of times

(33:00):
that I have been unemployed, Ialways thought to myself, like I would
do more writing, I would domore of this, I would do more
that. I would make a movie, I would watch a lot of TV,
I would do whatever. And actuallyyou don't end up doing that,
like for some reason. It's almostlike the the structure, the responsibility,
right. So it's it's to dowith if you have to be responsible for

(33:22):
your own time. Right. AndI'm someone who I do music, I
do podcasting, I write movies.I you know, I have things I
could be doing, Matt, youknow what I mean instead of my day
job, right, you know.And I'm not late. I have a
gun to look after, I havetwo dogs to look after. I have
places I want to travel to,Like you know, give me ten years.
I could really fill those ten yearsup. But you need the responsibility

(33:45):
structure. Discipline is the word I'mlooking for. You need the discipline to
go. Well, I'm going toget up at ten am and I'm going
to write for the next five hours, right, Because what ends up happening
is you get up at ten amit's suddenly noon. You go, well,
I should get to writing today.Well, it doesn't matter. I
can stay up late tonight. I'llwrite tonight. Let's just see what's on

(34:07):
TV or whatever. Oh, look, I have cheesy snacks in the cupboard,
right, or whatever it is.Right, And a week goes by
of I'll do it tomorrow, I'lldo it tomorrow, I'll do it tomorrow,
And suddenly you're surrounded by bags oflike greasy, empty bags of cheesy
snacks. Right, you've gained fiftypounds, you've watched entirely too much daytime

(34:29):
TV, and you've gone a bitpeculiar, and you've done another none of
the things that are on your list. However, if you have a full
time job. Suddenly I've the impetusto do the podcast that's come back into
my mind. I've started writing songsagain. I've thirty pages into writing my
movie. You know you suddenly,and I've got a new puppy and everything

(34:50):
get like you Suddenly if your lifeisn't relentlessly busy, I feel like you
don't get anything done. That mightjust be me, but yeah, i'
how do the opposite of whom belike with with work, Like I'll sometimes
zone out, like I'll be likeI don't have the energy to work on
writing. Um, Whereas like whenI have like a week off, like
like that this week off, I'vegot a staycation week. It's like one
of those things where it's like,yeah, I'm gonna get no actually I

(35:14):
should say yes, it does.You know I kind of am able to
kind of get myself three novels.Matt. So you are disciplined, right,
Yes, well, well I'm notthat disciplined. Here's the thing about
writing novels or any of these thingsthat I've discovered good because this ties into
I want to say to everyone,Hello, Welcome to the Aftermovie Dinna.
Our guest today is Matt Perea,who is a podcast a novelist, film

(35:37):
reviewer, bomb vivan and and we'regonna be talking not only about David Cronenberg's
Crash, but also John Kraft makesa Movie, because that's the subtitle to
the new Aftermovie Dina. And we'regonna be talking about writing because Matt's a
writer. I've recently hit thirty pages, which is about the first act of

(35:59):
my screenplay. If a screenplays ninetyminutes, and it should be Hollywood,
listen, fucking ninety minutes start withthree a fucking films, right, And
if roughly each page of a screenplayis a minute long, which they say
it is, then thirty pages isthe first act of the screen playing.
Sure enough, at the end ofmy thirty pages, the first character to

(36:19):
die, and my film has diedand the mystery has started. So I'm
doing well with destruction everything. SoI've started writing. Matts a writer.
We're gonna talk writing, Matt,Yeah, writing novels. What have you
learned? Let's kick it off.Okay, So here's the thing is everybody
talks about inspiration, right right,and my book that was the subject of
last week's podcast, Ladies and Gems. Yeah, maybe it could follow up

(36:40):
on that? Is it for me? When it comes every talk about like
inspiration from a creative standpoint, rightlike, like you know, and for
me, I've never thought that thatwas an issue, right, I mean
it is. I watched reality showsand come up with that and be like,
oh, that would be great toput a novel, you know,
all that kind of thing. Howdo we kill all the MILFs on Milf
Club or whatever it's called exactly right, right, So it's like, oh,
that character seems interesting, I'll makea character out of that or whatever.

(37:02):
But the inspiration is in the productionpart of it. And it's like,
like, listening to you and MattFarley talk about putting out movies,
it kind of like like I hadkind of hit a dead hit a wall
with with with proof reading for thenovel that I want to get out this
year, right, I kind ofhit a wall with like I don't know
if I want to go back andread it again. But then I'm listening
to both of you talk about,you know, you're putting out your albums,
him putting out movies. You bothtalk about, you know, like

(37:24):
getting a movie done and all thatstuff, and I start to envision that
book being on the shelf with theother three that I've I've self published,
yea, and that that's where theinspiration comes in. And I think the
biggest piece of inspiration I ever gotactually was on Bourdain's um uh parts on
Known or whatever. He was inPittsburgh, which Pittsburgh of all places,
right, I love Pittsburg. Againstit no, yes, exactly. So

(37:47):
he's interviewing a writer who wrote fifteennovels, and I said, I should
have fifteen novels, you know whatI mean. Like it's just like that's
the thing, you know, AndI mean granted, like I think one
of the things that matt Or Farleyhad said that is the most important things
you got to get the first thingout there, because but but actually,
to be honest, the first thingis just the first thing. It's actually
like the second and third, likeI think, you know, looking at

(38:08):
your music for example, you know, Truer Crime, I think is a
really great example of like, youknow, a really great album that you
put out, but you would alreadyput out like one or two albums already
that you know, in twenty twenty. Yes, And it's like, but
it's like you that idea of like, hey, I could just put another
album out, you know what Imean, Like it's not like I have
to go a year of glathering allof this stuff and all, you know.

(38:31):
And I've I've never understood how millionairemusicians, right, who have every
record company and recording studio available tothem, spend six to eight years making
an album, right, I donot understand now. I do understand on

(38:51):
the record company side that like,look, we don't want to have to
mock it and promote a new albumfrom you every month. Like I get
that, right, So that's amiddle ground. Right. Then it's like,
well, we could put an outlike the Mountain go to put out
an album every year, right,more or less every year they put out
an album and Merge promotes them andmarket them. But they do a lot
of marketing themselves as well, andthat seems like fine to me, Like

(39:13):
that makes sense to me, right, And very often they have two or
three albums recorded under their belt andthey just kind of you know, drip
them, drip feed them out overtime. I don't understand the people who
are like, you know, ittook us ten years to write these eight
songs, And I'm like, wow, then you're not, then, to
my way of thinking, you shouldprobably start writing the songs. You're a

(39:35):
really good performer and you're a reallygood musician. But if it's taking you
ten years to write eight songs andthey're you know, only three of them
are any good, get someone elseto write the songs. And I'm not
listening. I'm not claiming every timeI put an album out, I hit
it out of the park. ButI tell you what, you could probably,
based on all the albums I putout over the last five years,
you could probably make you know,eight good ten track albums out of that

(39:58):
and drip feed them out of thenext you know, eight years or whatever,
if that's what you wanted to do. One of the things that I
love about albums, especially digital albums, is how easy they are to put
out right. I get to create. I get to literally go from demos
recorded on my phone wherever I happento have a musical instrument to a fully
finished album with a track listing,description of why I wrote the album,

(40:22):
a front cover, you know,fully mastered tracks that I was able to
do on e mastered online, LikeI didn't even have to go to pay
for someone to master them. Ijust use the AI mastering and it's as
far as I say, it's absolutelyfine, Like I couldn't tell us right,
and I'm able to go from youknow, a blank page to fully
done album in a week if Iwanted to, like if I wanted to

(40:44):
write, if I wanted to putthat effid in novels, obviously they're a
little harder. They're there's a lotbigger, there's a lot more pages,
there's a lot more writing, there'swhatever. And then movies are the hardest
because you have to not only writea script, which is almost like writing
a novel, not as long,but it's you know, you have to
put whatever, but then you've gota mount cast and cameras and lights and

(41:05):
sound and edit equipment and all therest of it. Right, So that's
even a bit. So when peopleare like film directors like put out a
movie every four years, I'm like, all right, that makes sense,
right, right, When people doa movie every year, I'm kind of
about like, wow, they mustnever stop working. But um, you
know, but when they put oneout every four years, and about when

(41:29):
there's a film director like Terence Malleck, whether they're like, for thirty years,
I'm not going to put a filmout, but like, what was
Terrence Malick doing for thirty years?Right? But because then you then started
putting out a movie like every yearafter that, and suddenly suddenly we had
too many Terrence Malick movies And Iwas kind of like, could Terrence Malleck
go back thirty year? Hiatus?Pleased enough already. No, I'm kidding,

(41:50):
but I'm sorry to go on aboutyour novel. Yees, well no,
because it's it's a great book.Like so I keep myself a chancel
speaking of the whole sour to Redpandemic. So that the novel on to
get up this year, um,I told Salad Dough it's called So I
gave myself a challenge in April oftwenty twenty to see if I could do
four thousand words a day, becauseat the end of the month I would
have one hundred twenty thousand words aday. I mean that's you know,

(42:14):
for a novel, like eighty twohundred thousands, a good number. So
it's like, oh, I'd haveone hundred and twenty thousand words, you
know. And what ended up happeningwas that I did the four thousand words
a day, but then I gotto the you know, thirtieth day of
the month and actually wasn't finished yetended up being like close to one thirty.
The problem with that is that proofreadingsomething like that, like going through
and fix it in I think youknow again, Matt probably made a great

(42:36):
point on your previous podcast about likewith the script and having people proof for
you to script, right, nobody'sgoing to proof read one hundred and thirty
thousand word novels, like, yeah, I want to go through that unless
you pay them, which I evenStephen King only says to do two thousand
words a day. So four thousandwords a day, you're like doubling up
on King. You like, exactlyexactly, it's gonna be even more prolifect
than King exactly. But it wasthe fact it was like, oh,

(42:59):
I can do that. But thething is is the process from there is
to then Like okay, So likemy goal is every year, every year
I write a rough draft of anovel. So it's like, you know,
something in the nine one hundred thousand, except for um, not last
year, but the year before Idid like two I don't know Vella's the
right term, but two, likeyou know, fifty sixty thousand word um
ones that are you know, hopefullynext year I'll got to get one of
the two out at least um.But the idea is is that I have

(43:22):
a novel that I a rough draftthat I write every year, and then
I've self published one every year.That's been the goal since twenty twenty,
when I first put out Chat andAccounting. I had been writing because because
before Chat and Accounting, UM,in twenty twenty, I had written a
couple of rough drafts that are nownovels. They're out, you know,
um, A Girl and a Gunin Holtman Arms. I wrote them in

(43:43):
twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen and justkind of kept you know, working through
them. But um, that whichwill be in the podcast description and I
urge everyone to go buy them.I own all three of them, and
they look spanking on my shelves.They're also a fantastic read, UM,
and I think at some point weneed to put an audio account Matt with
you and I are doing all thevoices. But well we'll get to that
anyway. Yeah, that would.But yeah, it's you know, I

(44:07):
think it's one of those things likeonce I wrote and the thing with Chadd
and Accounting was that that thing hadsat. I wrote Chadd and Accounting.
I actually wrote another novel before this, and that's kind of I think it
was another piece that I think eitheryou were Matt further mentioned but like,
you know, maybe I'll do yourbest thing right away or something like that.
But the other thing too, isthat like I wrote a novel in
the two thousands called twenty nine thatI still hasn't still hadn't seen the light

(44:29):
of day. It's still not rightin a good enough place to be able
to publish it, I don't think. But it just kind of showed me
that I could do it. Itwas like, oh, Okay, here's
this thing that's one hundred thousand wordsand it's a it's a novel, and
it's coheres, you know, coherent, and it all works. And then
I was trying to sell that novel. I was like sending it to you
know, to agents and things likethat. And at the same time,
I came with the idea for Chadand Accounting and finished that one quicker.

(44:51):
But then it was like I movedhere to Pennsylvania or to Philadelphia, you
know, got married, all thisstuff, and I kind of just left
it, and I don't know whathappened. For a few years. I
just wasn't really working on any writingat all. I wasn't working on the
blog either. The blog was onhiatus and all that. And then I
just started working on it again andI was like, this novel's ready,
Like this thing is, it's asready as it's going to be why don't
I it was. It wasn't likeone of those things where I planned it

(45:13):
out where I'm like, Okay,I'm gonna go do this and this,
and I was just like, no, you know, I had in my
head that I was gonna have ablack cover with white writing for the end,
just the play plate cover, andI just did it, and um,
and it was out there, andI was like, Okay, that's
it. It's it's there. Butthen it was like, that's one of
the things I think I learned withthat process. I don't know if maybe
you learned the same thing with withyour albums or anything like that. But
when I first put that novel outthere, I didn't tell everybody because I

(45:36):
wasn't really sure like if I wantto just be like hey, everybody,
I wrote a novel or whatever,right, um. And so friends and
family kind of found out about it, like kind of secondhand. They you
know, saw like on you know, maybe on my DTV kind of sore
Twitter or whatever. They found outand it was like one of those things
where I get a text like,hey, mat, check out the new
book I'm reading, and it's like, oh, that's awesome. You know,
we read or whatever. So whenthe second one came out, I
was like, Okay, I'm gonnatell everybody about this one, because you

(45:59):
know they're all gonna be happy.What it discovered was the novelty of Matt
writing a novel and worn off andlike they were just like, oh,
Matt's doing this all the time.Now he's gonna do one of these one
a year now, Like I've gotto just buy a novel of his every
year, Like I didn't know thatI was going to do that, and
so um so that the shines wornoff again. Back to the back to
the things that I said, Edie. The family that like love you want

(46:21):
to be, I want you toexist supposedly, right, those are the
people that are going to be like, oh, it's really cute you did
this thing, but like stop stoprepeating it, Like but I need you
to do that all the time.Yeah, I mean granted, Fortunately my
siblings, my siblings have been goodabout now. One of the funny things
is what the first novel. Mymom bought fifteen copies of it, and
it was one of those things whereI'm like look at the Amazon sales and

(46:43):
I'm like, oh my god,I sold fifteen copies today and then I
was like, I have a hunchwhere this happened. And I texted my
mom and she was like, yesI did, and she gave my siblings
the copies and they were like,why did you do that? We wanted
to buy his book, right,so they've been buying. But but the
funny things, she went from fifteento three for the second one, and
don't I don't think she's bought thethere was reason one yet. Now.
My mum used to and blast theshuster buy all my albums until I until

(47:07):
I went on that tear and startedreleasing one a month, and then yes,
it stopped, which is absolutely fine. I don't So this is why
we're getting to with us and whatI have to be one hundred scent about,
right. And I feel that Isaw this with podcasting when I first
started podcasting. And remember, people, I haven't known this twelve years,

(47:28):
right, So you're you're part ofmy answer. You got me at the
podcast. So this was you know, this was back when everyone did not
have a park. I understand thateveryone now has a podcast. Say literally,
what's what's hilarious? Was? Youknow the odd comedian like um,
Mark Marin or whatever would have apodcast and other comedians would go on it
and blah blah blah blah blah.Now every single comedian who was ever on

(47:50):
the Mark Marin podcast has their ownpodcast and they all interview each other all
the time. Right. It's funnybecause you know, Conan and Brian decided
once he finished his run on hisTV show, like to do a podcast,
and I love his podcast. ConanO'Brian needs a friend. I think
Konan O'Brien is hilarious. He's veryquick with it, a great improviser or
whatever. But almost every guest hehas on and it doesn't matter if the

(48:13):
guest is a musician, an actor, a diplomat or whatever, he all
starts. So almost every interview nowstarts. So you started a podcast,
right, So I'm going back towhen everyone did not have a part like
Mark Marin had a podcast, KevinSmith had a podcast, but not everyone
had a podcast. Right when Istarted podcasting. And what I saw back

(48:34):
then and and I still see tothis day, and this ties into what
you're talking about, is I wouldsee one or two things. I would
either see the people who would lieand they'd put three episodes of a podcast
nobody would give two shits about outinto the world and then be like,
our third episode got ten thousand downloads, and you'd be like, no,
no, it didn't. Like itdidn't Jeff from Iowa, Like ten thousand

(49:00):
people did not download your podcast about, you know, painting figurines or whatever
the podcast is about. That's notto say, by the way, that
Jeff from Iowa shouldn't have a podcastabout painting figurings. Everyone should have a
podcast that they want one, butit didn't get ten thousand downloads by the
third episode, because that's not howit works right, right. The second

(49:20):
thing I would see is I wouldsee people that were honest and by the
third episode be like, huh,I didn't get as many downloads as I
wanted. I don't know whether Ican keep doing this right. And what
those two behaviors tell me is it'sabout attention. You're putting something out about
attention, right, you either wantthe ten thousand down or you don't and

(49:45):
listen. I have been guilty ofthis myself. I often joke, and
certainly joked when I shut down thepodcast last year, that you know,
our engagement had dwindled to the pointwhere like, if you don't care about
it, why the funk should Icare about it? Right? And and
there's like sixty percent joke forty percenttruth in that, right, So I'm

(50:06):
not I'm not. I'm not absolvedfrom the idea of every time I put
something out, I like, Iwant it to be a huge fucking thing.
Of course I do, right.I want to put an album out
and people be like, finally Johnputs out the best album of the year
and everyone goes crazy over it.Of Course I want that, right,

(50:29):
I'm not saying I don't, butthat's not why I put them out.
That's the difference. So you canwant that. You can want that till
you're blue in the face, right, And and if you do ten thousand
hours of something, luck and opportunityin various other things might present themselves where

(50:49):
you could turn it into something.Right. The closest I've seen And I
almost was able to do this withthe aftermovie Diner, but but it wasn't
the route that I wanted to go. But my good friend Brad Gullikson,
who used to do the in theMouth of Darkness podcast and now does comic
book counseling podcast and the B andB movie reviews on his local public access
but also on YouTube. He didstarted the podcast. But what he used

(51:15):
to do is he used to goto conventions all the time, right,
And he was doing the podcast.Was going to conventions and conventions. When
you do all your social about themand you're doing podcasts about them, whatever,
sooner or later a marketing agency ora PR firm or something will come
up to you and be like,hey, do you want to go to
this thing? Do you want togo to that thing? You know whatever,

(51:36):
And that happened with me. Igot free entry to the Philly Comic
on like three or four years ina row. I got screeners sent to
me by a screener, companies,etc. Etc. Right. I could
never make it out to like likeBrad used to fly around the k,
used to go to San Diego,used to and all sorts of different things.
Right, But I wasn't. Iwas never able to do that and
have the money to do or whatever. But he was able to turn that

(51:57):
into a situation where now now he'sdoing a show that is like uniquely his
and his wife's because him and hiswife are both you know, huge comic
book fans. You know, it'scomic book counseling. It's about relationships both
within comic books and reality mixed withobviously long through lines and story of lines
and comic books. So it's partof the zeitgeist anyway, right, It's

(52:22):
got that self help quality to itwhich people love and they've been able to
And because Brad and also to someextent Lisa, had been going to all
these festivals, going to all theseconventions and actually when they got home,
sitting down and actually writing the reviews, putting those reviews out, promoting those
reviews, telling the PR companies aboutthe reviews, there was a there was
an inroad there where they were ableto build it up to the point where,

(52:44):
like Brat Gullikson like is a alegitimate film reviewing entity now, right,
Like like as much as you canbe in the world of you know,
twenty four seven, three sixty fivemedia that never goes away, right,
Brad has been able. He interviewslike routinely very famous people Patton Oswald

(53:05):
and Dolf Langren and other people onhis show all the time, as well
as comic book royalty that I don'treally know, but he's been able to
parlay that. You know, hegets San Diego stuff, He's got tickets
to other other conventions, he goesto film festivals, he gets quoted the
you know, M. Leonard Maltonknows who he is, like he's he's
a guy now, right, andhe's he's basically put in the ten thousand

(53:29):
hours followed every bit of luck,followed every lead, followed every opportunity right,
And there was a moment, therewas a moment where through the lifetime
of The Aftermovie Diner that I definitelycould have done that right. I definitely
could have done I don't regret notdoing it. But there were certain occasions

(53:51):
where it was like, you canget into this convention for free, you
can write about this film thing.I had PR companies sending me stuff,
and if I wanted to be youknow, a film reviewer, right,
or an interviewer or some you know, a PR person or whatever, I
could have gone down that road.Definitely there were opportunities and things handed to

(54:13):
me. Right, So you doanything consistently enough, you do anything for
enough hours, and you are goodenough at that thing, Opportunity, luck,
various other things will present itself,right and that's maybe why you do
them, and that's a perfect legitimatereason to do them. But back to
the previous two examples, where you'reeither you know you're both wanting attention,
and if attension doesn't come, youeither lie about it or you give up.

(54:36):
Right, I see that all thetime. I choose I'm more of
a creative person. I know peoplewant to call me like a film reviewer.
I don't consider myself a film reviewer. I'm a film fan. Have
I written reviews, have I donepodcast review Yes, of course, But
I don't want that to be mycareer right never did. What I want

(54:57):
is to put creative, silly,opinionated, wild, idiotic stuff into the
world. I want to just createstuff and put it out there. I
want I want to by putting outhundreds of albums. I want to become
a better songwriter. I want tobecome I want to find my voice.
I want to become a better musician. I want to make collaborative partners like

(55:22):
I'm more interested in that. I'mmore interested in the creative process when it
comes to the podcast what I lovethousands of listeners, of course, But
I can love thousand of listeners.But I do it for a multitude of
reasons. Mainly because it's a nicecreative outlet. Secondly, it's a good
regular outlet. Thirdly, it's agreat way to just keep up with my

(55:44):
friends. Right. So, theI think what you were getting at,
and what I've taken a long timeto say is let it be its own
reward. I think is what youwere sort of saying, and that sounds.
The reason why I didn't just saythat and move on is there's any
number of inspirational posters that will havesome shit like make the journey its own
reward, fucking nonsense on it,and everyone listening to this podcast who's ever

(56:07):
wanted to be creative would be like, shut the fuck up. All I
get all day is people saying tome like the journey is its own reward.
Right. What I'm trying to sayis something a little bit more nuanced
than that, which is about ifyou're a creative person, right, take
take what you might get out ofit. Take the money or the attention

(56:29):
or the download numbers or whatever itis. Take that out of it.
If you're a creative person, Ithink that you're you know, you should
have the right to create as muchor as little as you want, but
you should create and creation like anything. And this is a Matt Farley thing,
but like the and I've heard otherpeople say it, but like the

(56:49):
brain is a muscle, the moreyou use it, the better it gets.
Right, creativity is the same.The more songs I've written, the
better songwriter I am. But it'snot just that I'm a better songwriter.
It's that I've done it enough thatI can say that. So for the
first twenty years that I was writingmusic, you asked me anything about my
music, and I am I'm nothumble or phony about it. I genuinely

(57:15):
don't like like, I genuinely amlike, please don't give me any attention
for my music. I'm not surethat I even like it. Right.
It took me. I've been doingquote unquote serious music, serious songs,
writing and recording stuff on four trackssince I was fifteen years old. Right
before that, I did some comedymusic and stuff with my friend John.
But like in general, and I'vebeen playing music since those four But my

(57:39):
songwriting started when I was fifteen.And it's only in the last three years
that I could say to you,I think I'm an okay songwriter. Now,
it took that long for me toeven be able to say that,
let alone listen to it and genuinelythink it. Right. So that's the
other thing we're all doing, uscreative people. Very often we're insecure.

(58:00):
Very often we you know, beenbeaten down by all the people saying if
you just tried to be an accountant. And what I did was I was
just like, well, I can'tnot do it. I walk around and
I think up sketch ideas or Ithink up song ideas, and I have
to put them somewhere. And welive in a world now where a microphone

(58:23):
is in the phone that you're carryingaround with you. There is a recording
device on the phone with you therethat that records as well as like Nebraska,
the Bruce Springsteen demo that he madein his bedroom, you know,
in New Jersey years ago, soundslike right, So now it may not

(58:44):
sound like fucking you know, ahuge wall of sound recording studio with all
the bells and whistles. But youcan get garage band on your phone.
You can have just a memo recorderon your phone, whatever it is,
and as long as you have amusical instrument voice and something to sing about.
You can record a song and throughband camp put it out for free,

(59:05):
right, so there's nothing to stopyou now, right. So my
thing has always been, well,I'm not not going to create um and
Matt Farley inspired me to be like, just put everything out like you'll find
your way and then not only that, but by the end of it,
just like with your books, withmy albums, I look at it and

(59:25):
I go, you know, Ihave a collection. I have a there's
a through line here. There's umexperimentation, there's uh, you know,
getting better, there's getting better play, getting better, collaborators, getting like
it's a there's something. You canlook back at it and uh, you
know. There aren't many bands inthe world, you know. The one

(59:49):
that I was thinking was the Beatlesbecause they went from mop top to you
know, inventing um heavy metal inlike six years, which is bizarre,
right, Well, they went I'mlike mop top to psychedelia to inventing heavy
metal. But in general they kindof are a bit unique in there.
But if you look at my lastten years of output, like you know,

(01:00:09):
there's a similar through line there insort of the music I'm playing and
the instruments I have on the albumand the songs I'm writing stuff. I'm
writing about the way that my lyricshave changed, and blah blah blah blah
blah. That to me is interesting. It doesn't have to be successful.
That's just interesting. I have abody of work now, and having a
body of work is its own reward. And so and similarly with a podcast,

(01:00:32):
right, is every single podcast I'veput out their fucking gold. No.
I would say about one hundred andfifty episodes of the previous three hundred
and fifty three could be washed awayand I wouldn't miss them. But there's
ten episodes of the last three hundredand fifty three that if I lost them
or they weren't out there or whatever, I'd be devastated because I think there
are ten of the best things I'veever done with my life. So like,

(01:00:54):
that's where I take my reward from. And if you know we're about
to do, you know, anotherepisode of Sleazy Spadeer Springtime, Right,
I had all but you know westarted Sleazy Spadeer Springtime as a joke,
right, We did it for fiveyears After that, Jim was like,
I don't really want to do itthis year. I didn't want to do
it either, but when I startedback up the podcast, I'm like,

(01:01:17):
you know what, Andy Lunn reallylikes Sleazy Spader Springtime. Right. He's
a friend I made on the internetwho I met got to meet in London.
He writes us emails every time wedo Sleazy Spade of Springtime. And
I'm like, I'm bringing it backbecause A because I'd taken a year out
and I was like, okay,great, I'm ready to bring back Steazy
Spade of Springtime. B because itstill gives me a joy that I've managed

(01:01:42):
to squeeze this much ridiculousness out ofthe idea. And thirdly, because you
know what, Andy Lunn never turnedround and went fuck John Crossed in the
aftermovie Diner, you know what Imean. He just stuck with it.
So if I do these next coupleof episodes where I'm covering Spader film just
for Andy Lunn, I think that'sabsolutely fine. Better to do it for

(01:02:04):
Andy Lunn is going to respond thando it for ten thousand people you'll never
hear from. So you know That'swhere I'm at. Anyway, Matt,
I rambled a long time. Doyou know what I definitely do. Apologies,
we sadly have to pause for someads. Maybe if more of you
supported us on Patreon, but thereit is. The aftermovie Diner doesn't endorse

(01:02:27):
any of these advertisers. We don'teven know what you're going to hear.
It's forced technical AI wizardry and don'tfool yourself. None of us are in
control. The robots are coming andthey want to sell us insurance. I
mean, I think with the podcastthing, I finally got to a point
where I'm doing every other week withthe podcast. And I used to be

(01:02:49):
one of these people that were likewhen we first when I was first doing
the podcast in twenty fourteen night whenJamie's my co host and I was part
of that night of podcasting that youand Mo had had put together, it
was just me going on like,um, you know what was it a
mixler? I think it was,and you know, yeah, in recording
and then it was like one ofthose things where were you know, her
life was getting busy because she's movingup to Michigan, and you know,

(01:03:09):
her and Brian were starting their lifeand you know, Jen and I were
starting our life here and it wasone of those things where it's like kind
of week after riek, it waslike which one of us is going to
be busy and not be able todo it, And finally it just kind
of shut down, and then theblog went with it. And then it
was like twenty nineteen follow twenty nineteenand just was like I kind of wanted
to do this stuff again, youknow, And but even then it was
like I was kind of wishy washing, you know. It was like I'm

(01:03:31):
gonna do a podcast, you know, and then it was like I don't
have a I don't have a guest, I don't have anything to do.
I'm just gonna this month, I'mnot gonna do a podcast. And it
was kind of like an up anddown thing. And the thing I learned
from it is most people, atleast for me, you know, and
I don't know with my podcast,most people don't care whether I put a
podcast out or not. Like Ishouldn't say they don't care if I don't

(01:03:52):
put a podcast out. They careif I put the podcast out right,
the people that follow it, theywant to listen to the episode, but
if I don't, they're not gonnamiss it if I don't. That's how
that's what I found with the OptimovieDiner is you know, at one point
it was every week, I'm goingto try and do this second series every
week if I can. But likeif I don't put one out for a
month, no one said it right, and and so I was like,

(01:04:15):
okay, but I it was likeone of those things like if I want
to create some momentum, I'm gonnatry to do it every other week.
I gotta try to make this happen. But even with that, it's like,
you know, one week an episodewill do whatever. You know,
It's like it's it's not there's likethis mindset with I think with creative stuff.
You know, I think kind ofgoing back to your thing about sort
of like this whole pulling yourself bythe bootstraps and like you know, hard

(01:04:35):
work, you know, it kindof all pays off with creative stuff.
It doesn't like from a mindset oflike the ten thousand hours and you know
and getting your your your you know, working the creative muscle right, that's
always building upon itself. You're alwaysmaking progress there. But when you put
something out, it's like one thing, could you know, get a whole

(01:04:57):
bunch of downloads or a whole bunchof sales or a whole bunch of whatever.
The next thing you put out,you might be like, boy,
I'm really building. This next thingis even better than that, And that
gets nothing, you know, Andit's like my and and and there's never
really a reason why. I mean, there's probably reasons, and I just
don't know what they are because there'sno no, dude, I've I found
this with the Interview podcast. Icould interview random director of indie movie no

(01:05:19):
one had ever heard of, orI could interview Peter Weller or Michael I
Inside or whatever, and the sameresult, and it's it's not um uh.
There's there's no rhyme or reason toit or indication of whether something's gonna
be successful or not. Here's whatI would say is I would say that

(01:05:41):
right now, with algorithms and payto play and everything else, and social
media just being a wash with noisegenerally, um, then if the one
thing I would add to the tenthousand hours is um and I you know,
and I would say, someone likeBrad kind of did this by bye,

(01:06:02):
as I say, flying off tofestivals and various other things and kind
of getting his face and his brandand his writing out there and making connections.
Right. It's all about networking.Right. My wife is a phenomenal
networker. There are people who sheworked with in jobs twenty years ago who
will call her up randomly and belike, hey, you're still doing marketing.
We've got a gig for you.Right. I'm not a good network

(01:06:26):
I have great friends, I havehundreds of great friends. I'm not a
good networker. I don't keep incontact with people who I worked with years
ago. But I would say themissing thing to the ten thousand hours thing
in modern times now is at thelow end networking. At the bigger end,

(01:06:49):
it's money. So if if youthe other thing you could do along
with sort of putting a podcast outevery other week, of putting a book
out every year or whatever it is, would be to say, I'm going
to take fifty bucks a week forthe next five years and put it in

(01:07:09):
a bank account or whatever or whateveryou can afford, and then when that's
done in five years time, I'mgoing to blow it all on marketing.
That's going to highlight the fact thatthere are five books out there that people
should read. Right, So that'sthat's the bit that's missing. Is that.

(01:07:30):
And you know, and I usedto try it. When Facebook Pay
to Play first came onto Facebook pages, I was like, oh, I'll
put Oh I interviewed Peter Well orwhatever, or interviewed Clinton Howard or someone,
or William Sadder, Like I interviewedWilliam Sadder the year that he was
in Iron Man three and Machete Kills, like two of the biggest fan films

(01:07:51):
that came out that year. Right, he was in both of them.
I interviewed him about both of those. Right, put it out there,
marketed it on every group and pageand blah blah blah whatever. And it
got some downloads, but it didn'tlike break six hundred or whatever, you
know what I mean, Like,it wasn't. It wasn't that it suddenly
had thousands thousands downards. Right,And I paid on Facebook like fifty bucks

(01:08:15):
or whatever. And the thing isis Facebook advertising is not designed for fifty
bucks. It's designed for like fifteenhundred bucks or fifty thousand dollars. Right,
So they it's not that they won'tdo what they say for fifty bucks,
they just won't do it very well. They'll do it much more,
much better if you pay the fifteenthousand, right, so clear, that's

(01:08:39):
that's that's the missing ingredient I thinkis if if you want to be successful,
expect that some of the money youmake from your regular day. Don't
obviously talk to your wife or husbandor boyfriend or girlfriend or whatever or family
member or whatever, but just sayI'm sorry, I'm gonna be saving up
for this thing that you know,maybe someone will actually watch my movie,

(01:09:02):
I'll listen to my album or whateverit is. Otherwise, just be prepared
to be happy that you did itat all, and and be be thankful
for that. Um So, Matt, before we uh, ease into the
Comflect track suit pants of Sleazy SpaceSpringtime. And by the way, listeners,

(01:09:25):
that is the that is the officialcostume for Sleazy Spain of Springtime.
You have to have Conflect tracksuit pantsbecause you know that's what he wears in
the privacy zone home, um withwith his gut out, you know what
I mean, Like, there's noif he has the track suit top on,

(01:09:45):
he has it unzipped with the gutout and a pair of shades on
and his trill be hat from theBlacklist for no reason whatsoever and probably a
flouncy little scarf. Yeah, toaccentuate the nickedity of his gut. Yes,
the gut, in the in thewhole, like upper crust, you

(01:10:08):
know, Boston, you know,Massachusetts breeding, you know, mister Oh,
I knew John John when he waslike, you know, I was.
I was to school with John John. You know, there's my star.
I had dinner with Jackie who's Yeah. I love how he tried to
like humanize himself when he was onthe Tonight Show and he talked about like
throwing up into Kennedy's house. I'mlike, it doesn't make it any better.

(01:10:29):
You were having dinner with the Kennedys. You know, this is what
it is. Anyway, Um youyou Lethario, you you you golden head
quizzling anyway, So writing, soI want to uh, after I put
up put out the episode last week. That episode was actually recorded a while

(01:10:49):
ago. But it's it's good thatI put it out last week because,
um, while editing and stuff,I got to listen to it again and
I'm like, oh, yeah,there's a really good idea there where Matt
says, you know, because what'sembarrassing about that episode I put out last
week and I'm really glad I putit out. But what's embarrassing is it
was obvious to anyone who listened.I didn't really have any ideas. The

(01:11:11):
idea that I had is I wantto make a film, right, That's
the idea I had. I haven'tmade a film in twenty years. I
want to make a film, right. And it's making a film. It's
not as easy as going I wantto make an album and then just being
like throw some words together that rhymeand pick up an instrument, right,

(01:11:31):
right. You have to write afilm, right. You have to sit
down, all right. And whileI don't have a Charlie Roxby, like
Matt has a Charlie to bounce ideasoff, I do have a Jay Mayo.
I do have a Matt Pariah.I do have my friend John.
While it's like I have people Ican go to and j Jay Mayo and
I back towards the beginning of theyear, we did we did a skype

(01:11:54):
session where we kind of we madeeach other laugh for three hours basically,
and came up with like four fivescenes that if we're in a movie,
we would just howl with laughter.Right. Yeah. But and there was
an outline, but there was nolike, there was no characters, there
was no plot, there was nolook whatever. It's just like, oh,
these two bounty hunters are chasing aserial killer and funny shit happens along

(01:12:16):
the way, right, But therewas no real idea, and anyone who
listened to last week's episode could tellit was all sort of, well,
I have this idea that maybe it'sa Siege movie and maybe it's a detective
thing, and maybe it's whatever.But I had no ideas, right,
And that's that's the problem, right, is that I've not been thinking in
film terms for very long. I'vebeen thinking an album terms, right.
But Matt said something last week,and when I was editing it, I

(01:12:41):
took note where he goes all thesedisparate little ideas that you have or scenes
that whatever. He's just like putit all into one movie, like just
combine it. Right. So whatI did was, you know, since
twenty twenty, like yourself, whereyou started writing your books, I decided
to write some films. Right,I'd got more back into I felt like

(01:13:04):
I'd finally got into a place inAmerica where I'm like I could probably call
on ten people, you know,every other weekend or whatever to kind of
make something right, even if itwas just two people one weekend, another
three people another weekend or whatever.I know enough people in America now that
if I was like, hey,guys, I'm making a movie, as
long as I drive to you andI stick the camera in your face,

(01:13:24):
you'll be in this thing, right, Like, I know enough people now,
right right. Not that I needany of them to be professional actors
or whatever. That's not the movieI'm making. I'm making a movie for
me. So I knew that Kimwent out a year later and got me
an incredible camera right for Christmas,and I'm just like, well, now

(01:13:44):
I have to do something right.Then we bought the house and blah blah
blah. A whole bunch of stuffhappened last year and I didn't get around
to doing anything. But when thisyear started, I'm like, there's two
things. By the end of thisyear, I'm going to written a movie
and at least plan to start makingit. And the other thing I want
to do this year has become anAmerican citizen. Like those are my two
goals for twenty twenty three, right, So, and you know, for

(01:14:06):
the first half of the year,I was kind of scrambling. I didn't
know what. I recorded that podcastwith Matt because I'm like, I need
something that's going to kick me upthe ars. And I thought, well,
if I bring the podcast back andmake it about me making a movie,
maybe there'll be a little bit ofa tiny ground swell behind it,
maybe, you know. And sosure enough, Robin Doyle, who used
to write from Edinburgh in his shed, we used to call it tales from

(01:14:29):
the shedg or no postcards from theshed sorry, or shed nanigans. Robin
Doyle reaches out every so often andsays like, how's the script going.
Michael Fitzgerald, who has been aconstant supporter of the show on Twitter,
has asked about the script. Otherpeople have said, you know about the

(01:14:50):
script and something like that, andso I'm like, okay, I'm going
to do a weekly update where Itell everyone what's happening and where I'm at
and so on, and it'll takeyou know, keep be honest and take
me to task. Whatever it wasobvious the last episode, like I say,
embarrassingly few ideas, but anyway,I like you. In twenty twenty
started to write some different stuff,right, so I went back through my

(01:15:11):
Google drive and I found four orfive scripts plus all those ideas that Jay
Mayo had and I had been goingthrough, and I kind of went,
well, what is here? Andthey weren't four or five completed scripts.
There were four or five scripts I'dstarted and then not done anything with.
And what was great about them wasI'm like, well, wait, you
know, because I tend to writein sketch form, right, I write

(01:15:32):
like Monty Python writes. They wrotea bunch of sketches and then put it
together and made it Life of Brian, you know what I mean. So
that's how I tend to do it. So I had all these sketches in
all these different movies that weren't necessarilylike plot drivers, but they were really
good character introductions, right. SoI was like, Oh, I have

(01:15:54):
this evil CEO character from this script, and I have this, you know,
two male friends kind of clerks,more rats kind of characters from this
script. And I have you know, this kindly old couple from this script
that I you know. And Ihad suddenly started looking and I'm like,
well, I knew that I've alwaysknown that I want to film predominantly around

(01:16:15):
where I live. It doesn't meanthat I'm going to move go to other
places and get interior scenes with otherpeople, but predominantly I want to kind
of film where I live. Also, you said something earlier in the podcast
about like maybe not do your bestidea first, right, and I think
Matt had said that last week.So again it was like, how do
I just find a small movie ideathat I can just make, right,

(01:16:38):
just get something out there, andlike Farley in ten years time, maybe
I make my bigger one, right, but let's just get the first one
out there. So that's what Istarted to do. I started putting these
scenes together, and I'm like,well if I changed that and change that
right scene here and give it anintroduction there, and blah blah blah blah

(01:16:59):
blah, this is the first actof a film, right, So that's
what I did. So the otherweekend I sat down, I put all
these things together and it became thefirst act of a movie. But even
better than that, because I'm like, well, I want to do a
detective thing. I love detective things, and every idea that I've had has

(01:17:20):
had some kind of detective idea init. I just like detective things.
So I'm like, Okay, there'sa detective. Okay, there's all these
characters. Okay, there's a smalltown. So it's going to be a
small town crime murder film with thisdetective. Right. So I had all
these things set up, this ishow it's going to be blah blah blah

(01:17:40):
blah blah, And through organizing theseother scripts, through rewriting them, because
I went through and did second draftsand all the scenes changing them, I
added like three or four new scenesas well, because I kind of went,
well, I have this archetype,this archetype, this archetype, but
I don't have this and this greatokay, so I need this and this.
And what I found was that bydoing this practice and putting these things

(01:18:01):
together, not only did I havemore than I thought I had, but
it was answering all the questions thatjust sat looking at a blank piece of
paper wasn't answering, right. Sowhere I have the biggest problem is structure.
And I couldn't like, I couldn'tdecide, you know, who'd be
murdering who, why would they bemurdering you know, how would how would
the detective figure it out? Blahblah blah blah, blah by putting these

(01:18:25):
scenes together, by knowing that Iwanted to be a small town with these
crazy, weird characters in it doingwhat they're doing, and that a detective
would have to be pulled in atsome point, and that someone was going
to get murdered at some point,and so on and so forth. All
the answers I needed to the structureand the plot and where I'm going.
Now we're in there, and Ihad no idea of that, and it

(01:18:47):
drive It drove home to me whatFarley has always said, just start,
like just start. So the excitingnews I have for the second episode of
John Cross Makes a Movie is thatthe script is now well underway. I
know how to write the next twoacts. I know what the characters are
going to be doing, I knowwho the murder is, I know why.

(01:19:10):
And I'm very very very very veryexcited about this. So that's my
update, and I think that's justreally fucking cool. But it drives home
as I said, just start,because I spent six months going but what's
the structure and who does what?And trying to do post it notes and
drawing charts and graphs and whatever.I didn't take my own advice, which

(01:19:34):
is, I don't sit there andgo I want to write a song about
this. I just start writing lyricsand a song of forms and I just
had completely forgotten to do it.So the good news is first act is
done, Matt. Is it thesame for you? Yeah? So what
I do is I start to craftan idea in my head, and I

(01:19:57):
have a thing for these these littlemini notebook I get it write eight.
I don't know why I like them, but they seem to like yeah,
And I'll just start drafting it out, like I'll just kind of do the
outline, and then I'll start kindof going over each chapter like what I
want in each chapter. But thereis a point where it's like, Okay,
I just got to dive in anddo it. And it's interesting because
the one that I'm going to writethis this year, the novel that I
want to industry, actually is abouta detective as well. In my novel

(01:20:20):
A Girl in a Gun, Ihad actually written a script the main character
writes a movie called A Girl ina Gun, and I actually put the
script for A Girl in a Gunin the movie, but the formatting didn't
work with Amazon Kindle, like withthe Kindle Unlimited. It just it wasn't
so I just took it apart andI was like, I'm going to convert
it into novel form and actually makeit like one of three stories that the
main character goes through. But it'slike that idea of like, Okay,

(01:20:44):
it's kind of fun to have thenotebook and write everything down, but really
it's good to just get in thereand type. Or like the other thing
too, where you were taking thesepieces and putting them in things. That's
another thing too, that it's likeI always save everything that I've written.
Almost every novel that I have haslike an extra pieces word document, right.
It's like it's like where I'll writesomething like, for example, the

(01:21:05):
one that's coming out this year,Um, you know, I wrote it
obviously in April, and there werescenes in there that I read and I
was like, I don't know thatI really liked that scene in the in
the book anymore. I don't thinkit works anymore. So it's just copy
or just you know, highlight andthen just control X and then just paste
it into this other word document.It just has it all and you can
see right that you were able totake some of these pieces from other things

(01:21:27):
and and and paste them in together. It's like it was one thing it's
great about computers, there's two.It's good and bad, right because with
computers, like you don't have tosave everything, right, it's not like
a piece of paper that's stacked everywhere. But of course, right if you
lose it, right, if theGoogle drive goes away or whatever, then
then it's gone for good. Um, but it's there. There's value and
a lot of these things. Itjust like you just never know when you're
gonna need some kind of scrap thatyou were using before. And um,

(01:21:49):
but it sounds really cool that you'reat a stage where you're kind of like,
Okay, I know where I wantto take this thing. And then
it's like the writing part is sois almost easy at that point, right,
So you're just you just kind ofI don't want to say vomiting on
the page, but you're typing andjust putting it down there. Yeah,
no exactly. And what's what's funnyis it like little things? Right?

(01:22:10):
So I'm gonna you know, Mattlast episode encouraged me to just tell people
what's going on and not hide anythingback. I'm not going to tell people
who the murderer is. So I'mnot going to give away the twist at
the end of the film, butthere is something. So I had started
in twenty twenty to write, um, the Aftermovie Diner the movie, right,
and essentially it was like, well, you know, there's new owners

(01:22:33):
at Radio flage Goblet and they wantto get rid of the Aftermovie Diner and
blah blah blah blah blah. Andeveryone was sort of like, well,
it's a bit like uhf, theWeird Hour movie and and and you know
it's also like a particularly typical kindof that's what you'd expect, right,
Um, And I don't mind that, like all genre film you know,
have have typical beats in them andso on, and people should not be

(01:22:55):
afraid another good writing lesson, donot be afraid of like every action movie
as well. You know, Matthas basically the same formula, right,
And we wouldn't like it if ithad a different formula, right If you
know, if if the evil druglord hadn't kidnapped the good guy's daughter,
and then you know, the goodguy would have no reason to go through
Mexico, you know, killing everyoneor whatever it is, right, exactly

(01:23:18):
yeah, that you know, everythinghas a has a has a formula.
Everything, and even the few thatso caol twist the formula. If you
look, you know, one layerbeneath, it's still the formula. So
don't be afraid of formula. Soit wasn't just a but I was also
like, right, but it's youknow, radio Flangs got and then I'm
like right, but then we youknow, then you have to have scenes

(01:23:40):
of people who are you know,hundreds of fans of the Aftermovie Diner championing
us blah blah blah or you knowwhatever, and it just became I don't
know. It was one of thosethings where I'm like it, you know,
I would love to write after MovieDine in the movie, but um
uh, but I just didn't knowhow I was going to film it,
right, Yeah, but I hadall these great seas in it, and

(01:24:01):
you know, John, Jim andI were going to play ourselves and da
da da dah. So there weretwo scenes. There was one scene with
the evil CEO, which was goingto be the guy who bought radio Flange
couplet that I was like, well, there's no reason why in a small
town with its own radio station ora small town with its own uh public
access to whatever that there couldn't belike some guy who's ridiculous, megalomaniacal ceo

(01:24:27):
even though he's the CEO of thesmall little radio station. I thought,
that's still a funny idea, andthere's some really good jokes in that scene.
Um, but I changed, youknow, in the original, it's
all like my nemesis is are theaftermovie diner? And why are they still
on my network? And I don'twant them to be in blah blah blah
blah blah. For this one,I changed it, and I'm like,

(01:24:50):
well, I don't want it tobe about after we've done it, it
can still be radio Flange Couplet,because I like putting a little nod towards
that so that people know it kindof takes place in the same universe.
But you know, what's the thing, And I'm like, well, maybe
this ridiculous person has an ex wife. Wait, well, maybe maybe the
ex wife has because of their ridiculouspre nup or something, has stock options

(01:25:11):
in Radio Flange Goblet. Maybe sheactually owns fifty one percent of Radio Flange
Goblet and it's going to start,so something I had this idea and I
was like, Okay, great,so the ex wife blah blah blah blah
blah. Right, so it's youknow, and I don't need to explain,
Like I don't need to explain otherthan a line of dialogue that she
worked it out with her lawyers thatshe now owns more stock in radioflage Goblet

(01:25:34):
than her ex husband, Like Idon't need to explain that it probably legally
isn't possible. But I'm just likeit's in the movie now, That's that's
what it is. Like it doesn'tand again it doesn't matter. Like I
was watching because Guardians three is comingout. I rewatched like all the movies
that the Guardians take place in sothat I could kind of get sort of

(01:25:54):
back into the mindset before I gosee number three. And I watched Infinity
War and Endgame. Those movies areutterly stupid, like stupid from top to
bottom. Nothing in those movies whatsoevermakes sense even within the internal logic of
Marvel movies, right, Like,nothing, nothing whatsoever. There there's three

(01:26:17):
hours of movie where people are like, well, we can't do that because
of Thanos, and You're like,yeah, but why can't you've done it
in other films, you know whatI mean. Right, there's whole tons
of stuff, right, the doctorstrangers like, there's sixteen million possibilities and
only one will And I'm like,but that's not that's not true. Right.
You could you could do the littleyellow swirly thing around his arm like

(01:26:40):
you did with the monster at thebeginning of the movie, and chomp his
handoff and take the gauntlet and shovethe stones up your ass if you wanted
to. Oh no, we can'tdo that because blah blah blah blah blah.
Right, So it's all it's allnonsense. That's the other thing.
If you're writing a script, peoplelistening, If you're writing a script,
it's all nonsense. You don't needto explain anything. It's a line of
dialogue. I literally have the CEOgo she had he hasn't asside to herself

(01:27:02):
because she had such good lawyers.One of them even had a degree.
Right, So right, so itdoesn't matter, right, because it's a
ridiculous premise anyway. So there's that. So I'm like, that, then
gave me my first murder victim,because the first murder victim is his ex
wife right, which makes him thefirst red Herring, right, So so

(01:27:27):
spoilers, he didn't do it,but you think he did, right.
But anyway, so that gave mesome stuff there. But the other thing
that I pinched from after movie donein the movie that's going to show up
in this new Detective film is thatmy character and after movie dine in the
movie John, who's me playing mefor no reason whatsoever. I thought it
would be hilarious if I had animaginary friend, right that I wasn't even

(01:27:51):
that friendly with that had stuck aroundsince I was a kid, even though
I didn't want him to, becauseI thought, how funny would it be
that he had this random imaginary friend, Because I mean, I never had
an imaginary friend when I was growingup, but people did, right,
And you know, at a certainpoint, like with Santa Claus and Christianity,

(01:28:14):
you kind of get rid of itand move on, right, You
kind of go, all right,enough of the imaginary friends, let's move
on. But any children under fivelisten to this. Santa Claus is not
real. I'm sorry, and youshouldn't be listening to this. Fuck off
to bed. Anyway, I thoughtit'd be hilarious because I need, like
a good central comedy concept. Ilove comedy ideas, and an idea that

(01:28:38):
there is a belligerent imaginary friend whois permanently optimistic, who drives the main
character crazy, who doesn't the maincharacter is like, I don't even want
to believe in you anymore? Willyou go away? Right? I thought
that was hilarious for after movie downin the movie, but then I thought,
I can't possibly put that in thedetective film. And then I was
like, why not? Why can'tI detective, our lead detective have an

(01:29:01):
imaginary friend who constantly hangs out inhis bathroom giving him shit all the time,
right, and and and and andhe could kind of be his inner
monologue, and it could be itcould you know whatever? Right? And
I'm like right. But then it'sthat's like a supernatural comedy idea. You
know, does that belong in thisfilm? And I'm like, why doesn't
it belong in this film? Right? I have it in this script.

(01:29:23):
I have a scene already written.I could transport that, just change a
few things and whatever, and putit in the new script and bingo,
there's another script. Right. Sothat was the mentality I took all the
way along right, And you know, we were laughing on the previous episode
about the um psychic Negotiator or theparanormal Negotiator, right, the idea that

(01:29:45):
he would show up and negotiate withghosts, right, right. And I
suddenly thought, well, we'll hangon a second. I want to put
that scene in there at some point, because that's fucking hilarious, even if
it's just a scene on a TVor something like, at least even if
it's you know, coming to CBSthat's full the paranormal Negotiator. I want
to put that scene in it becausethat's fucking hilarious. And then I was

(01:30:06):
like, well, wait, nowI have an imaginary friend. He's sort
of in the ghost world, right, so he could like make some mischief
that. So anyway, it allstarted to just by doing it and going
fuck it, I'm gonna do it. It'll win it. So I've revealed
some of the script as I promisedI would hit. Those are some ideas
and I'm working with and we shouldprobably now go over to crash, but

(01:30:30):
I'll give you time to come inon what I just said. Well,
no, I think it's important,Like you know, the novel that I
just had come out Holtman Arms.One of the characters, his name is
Brando Silverman, right. So mywife, Jennifer j her last name Silverman,
and Brando was our cat, right, who passed away in twenty nineteen.
And we'd always had these jokes thatBrando was a lawyer, he was
a you know, reform rabbi.You know, he was an MMA fighter

(01:30:53):
because when he'd fight the bigger catthat we had, JD, he would
like tackle him and stuff like that. And I was like, I'm just
going to make him the character inthe novel. And so the main character
is there, and there's this othercharacter at one point says, your friend
is a little gray cat, right, And he's like, no, he's
not a great cat. He's aperson. He's a human, you know,
and all this stuff. But hedoes all these things. You know,
he's a lawyer, he's an MMAfighter, all of these kinds of

(01:31:15):
things. And I just put itin the movie, I mean, start
in the book. But then theother thing in the book is um the
main character throughout the threat. Inthe book, there's this separatist group in
North Dakota that's trying to secede fromthe country and Originally, the concept in
the book was that under the Obamaadministration, Barack Obama, with the support
of the Senate, had decided theywere going to take North and South Dakota

(01:31:38):
and put them into one state,so they would just be Dakota. And
I was like, this is whatit's going to be in the novel.
But then the one that's coming outthis year is like the third in a
series of those, right, andI realized, like I couldn't describe what
happened with the North and South Dakotabecoming its own state within the second this
other book cleanly enough, so Iwent away from it. And when I
would tell people that, they're like, why did you do that? Wouldn't

(01:31:59):
you just but that's kind of afun idea that, you know, northern
South Dakota become one state. AndI was like, I guess, you
know, but um so it's likeone of those things where like you gotta
go as crazy as possible and thenlike just see how it looks when you
when you get it all out there, and if you've got to pull it
back, I think it's sometimes it'seasier to pull it back than it is
to like go further. If thatmakes sense, of course, No,
no, no, And and Ilook, you know, I think back

(01:32:20):
to you know, funny enough,I was on this tear regionally watching the
Marble movies and two of the ones, um, the second Guardians movie,
and thought Love and Thunder that theyappeared in the beginning, Um, those
are both movies that people weren't sohot on when they came out, right,

(01:32:40):
But I watched them again, andyou know, full disclosure, I
watched them having taken some gummies,and they're fucking wonderful. And then those
two movies, Love and Thunder andVolume two are fucking wonderful, And they're
fucking wonderful because they are less concernedwith the you know whatever the bad guy
in the week is or whatever.It's both Taikawa Titi and James Gunn putting

(01:33:06):
in as many like just batshit fuckingideas that they that they want to put
in right. So like the twoscreaming goats in Love and Thunder, like,
I think that's a fucking hilarious idea, right, the fact that he
destroys the like temple of the sacredwhatever while he's doing his ridiculous thor fighting

(01:33:28):
right, and to kind of gethim back. They've given these two screaming
goats, but he him and Corkkind of loved the screaming goats. And
then for the rest of the movie, like, the screaming goats are like
pulling his chair, you know,pulling his boat, and you know,
whatever it is. And I'm like, that's a wonderful idea where someone's gone,

(01:33:48):
Okay, screaming goats. That's fuckinghilarious, giant screaming goats. But
fuck that, I'm keeping that inthe whole movie as a through line for
the movie. So that's like,I love the those kind of things.
And the reason why I love themis because I was raised on eighties movies,
and eighties movies are full of shityou cannot explain, but that is

(01:34:09):
fucking genius. There are so manywhether it's COBT movies, big blockbuster movies,
fantasy movies like The fucking Krulls andNever Ending Stories and Labyrinths and whatever,
all those kind of fantasy movies thatcame out, whatever it is,
there are eighties movies that are filledwith ship where you're just like, that
is fucking bizarre and beautiful. It'sbeautiful because it's bizarre. So a cookie

(01:34:31):
cutter. It's not something I've seenbefore, it's not something I'm likely to
see again. It's its own thing. So whenever I start thinking about,
like, well, maybe i'll takethat out, maybe I'll make it more
serious, I'm like, why,why, dude? Your voice like the
way I write shit, Like,whether it's the sketches at the beginning,
the after movie diner or movies orwhatever is, it's got to be in

(01:34:51):
my voice. And I think theidea of an imaginary friend that won't fuck
off is hilarious. And I canwrite in a way that I think is
hilarious. I don't need anyone elseto find that hilarious. I think it's
hilarious. So and call that masturbatoryall you like, that's you know,
That's what I'm gonna do. Andtalking about masturbatory, let's talk about David

(01:35:13):
Cronenberg's nineteen ninety six film crash M. I feel like there's a lot to
say about this, right so,And the reason why there's a lot to
say about it is because nothing happensin the film, right So, that's
the first thing. Absolutely nothing happensin the film. And I would go
as far as to say that thefilm, outside of its cinematography and soundtrack,

(01:35:38):
both of which are superb, thefilm is pornography. And I don't
mean that in a I don't meanthat in a Christian moral right prudish like,
oh, this film is pornography.What I mean is, as someone
who's watched a lot of pornography inhis life, it plays out like a

(01:35:59):
porn film. Meanings, there arefour or five, maybe six main characters,
and by the end of the film, you expect all of them to
fuck each other. And that's right. And in various different setups, right,
man, man, woman, woman, man, woman, woman,
man, you know whatever it is, right, in all the different permutations,
you expect this cast of you know, grotesque pulling actors to have sucked

(01:36:21):
each other by the end of themovie. Yes, I mean, and
that's Crash, right, that's Crash. I mean, that's it. There's
nothing else in this movie but aseries of sex scenes, sex scenes and
car acters. I mean, fulldisclosure. This is number nine on my
top ten movies of the nineties.This is okay, you love it.
Okay, I love Crash because itis exactly what you described, right with

(01:36:43):
car crashes, and so, firstof all obviously full disclosure for everybody in
the audience. I've never had mylicense. I've driven sometimes, but my
wife and I don't drive anywhere.So the fact that a movie about cars
is that, like, you know, it's a car crashes is that big
for me. But and the otherthing too, was with Chrome Burke.
His stuff is usually a little bitmore of macab than I'm used to dealing
with, right, So, solike the fact that one of these like

(01:37:05):
really stuck with me. I meanwhen when I say it's number nine on
my top ten, it's you know, Clerks is my number ten, and
Leaving Las Vegas is my number eight, So it's kind of like right in
that stuff, right, Okay,that number it's when I first saw that's
a triple bill, by the way, Leaving Las Vegas, Crash and then
Clerks. Right, there's a lotof sex and death in those three movies

(01:37:26):
alone, Yeah, exactly. AndI mean and actually Crash and Clerks were
two that I sought the indie theaterclocks someone actually has sex with a dead
guy, so right, right,even though Crash and Leaving Las Vegas might
be the more controversial films, Clarks, Yeah, but you'll write that like
from a pornography standpoint, right,because you know, talking about action movies,

(01:37:47):
right, we's talk about action moviesand we say, how you know
there's a fight scene every ten minutesor a musical right, there's a musical
number every ten minutes. Right inthis film, there's an accident and a
sex scene every No, no,there doesn't always have to be an accident
with the sex scene. Um thatyou can have sex without it without an
accident, but there's usually some sortof metal around, right, But there's

(01:38:08):
no there's no film around the sexlike unlike like What's what I found hilarious
is in a porn film, someonewill come and fix the boiler. They
might not end up fixing the boiler, but they'll at least have a reason
to show up to fix the boiler, right right, in this movie,
nobody has an excuse for any ofit. He and they all all the

(01:38:29):
characters who all have the same kink, right, which is we get aroused
by the danger and death and technologyof because technology is important to this because
Ballad talked about technology when he saidhe was writing the movie. But the
machinery is probably a better word.But but all they get their rocks off
around danger, death and machinery.Right, that's their thing. And you

(01:38:54):
know these six people or whatever,five people right, because it's um codious,
Rosanna Arquette, Holly Hunter, JamesSpada, and Debra Carron because five
main main characters and um, andthen there's some subsidiary guys as well.
But they all have the same kinkand they all meet each other instantly,
right, and everyone shares um thesame kink, like to the point where,

(01:39:16):
uh, you know Spader and it'shilarious. But Spade is driving along
looking at like paperwork and stuff,and I'm like, this just isn't Like
he couldn't even come up for areason for a legitimate car accident. He's
no Spade is gonna I mean,Also, there's a way to look at
this movie as it's a as acomedy film, like it's because it's it's

(01:39:38):
totally the fact that it's so seriousis kind of fucking hilarious because it's such
a stupid film. But anyway,Um, my favorite scene, my favorite
scene of the film is when um, James Spader and Rosanna Arquette are at
the jag was at the Jaguar dealor Mercedes Benz Dealership. Right. So,
Rosanna Arquet's character she's been at acarc and she's got braces on her

(01:40:00):
legs, um, and so she'swearing leather numbers, fishnets and all this
and um. They talk to thedealer and they say, oh, let's
I want to sit in a carthat's for normal people, not one that's
made for me to drive. Andso this whole film has all been about
like scars and twisted metal and cutsand broken limbs and all this stuff and
patching it all back up. Andhere she is sitting in this pristine Mercedes

(01:40:25):
and she gets one of her bracescots on the upholstery and the guy who
works there is trying to help herwith it and it rips, and he's
like, oh my god, Ohmy god. And then for me,
right, as someone who's like seeingall these car accidents and all this stuff
and all these these these twisted limbsand bruises and cuts and all this,
I cringed when she ripped the ophulsexactly. And it was like this great

(01:40:49):
like kind of metaphor for like kindof what this is, where it's like
we live in this sort of thesociety where one things to be neat and
clean and stuff or that's the idea, right, nothing ever is nothing?
Yeah, I mean it doesn't matterhow how much you clean it. Yeah.
I mean this movie takes place inCanada. And if you were going
to say to me, Matt,what would it look like if you put
a bunch of Americans in Canada?What would they do? Right? This

(01:41:10):
is what I would expect them todo to Canada. This is what Toronto
would be dealing with a bunch ofAmerican fucking a bunch of cars. Yeah,
going in around, fucking getting tocar accidents, and Alias Cotas is
like causing three or four car pilotsbecause he has a sexual you know,
like these. This is what Americanswould do to Canada if they were sent
there. We wouldn't need to havea war with Canada. If we want
to take it over, just sendfive of us over there. Let's you

(01:41:30):
know, just Dr James Spada andCanada would be pregnant within the month.
Yeah, you know what I mean. But because that because that's how it
is. And in fact, JamesSpada when um talking about being in this
movie, because because he always thoughtthat crona bug always thought that the hottest
thing would be to get um costscosts for the film, right right,

(01:41:55):
right? Um? But apparently JamesSpada his his sponse was I get to
fuck everyone in this movie, don'tI? Right, So that was that's
his response. So I'm just likeDan, Dan tells you all you need
to know about Jame Spader, andin fact, the talking sleezy Spader springtime
for a minute the best Spader momentin the whole film. And people are

(01:42:17):
going to be like, oh right, yeah, the bit where he fucks
a leg wound, No fucking aleg wound is just a Wednesday for Spader,
right right? Uh, you know. And so that's the thing with
Spader that is absolutely amazing is whenwe first meet Spader in the film,
right right, he's he's got he'sgot his camera operator bent over a desk,

(01:42:40):
right, and he said, butwe meet him coming up over the
heart shaped buttocks. Right. Hishead comes up from behind the heart shaped
buttocks of this camera operator, right, um, And he's being called by
the crew because he's working on afilm. Right again, never really explained,
but anyway, he's working on afilm, um, and he's been

(01:43:01):
called from outside and in order tosay, like, you know, sure,
I'll be out there in a minute, like whatever, you know,
He has to pull his head outof the woman's horrfices in order to say
that. Right then they say morestuff through the door, like they go
they say, oh, like becausewe've got a trouble with blah blah blah
blah blah. And much like youwould if you were on the phone or

(01:43:24):
whatever and you kind of were annoyedby the thing, you kind of rest
your head on your hand. Herests his head in the cleft of her
buttocks, annoyed at the fact thatthey're shouting through the window at him.
It's almost like like, I don'teven think Spader asked the actress if that
was like, I'm sure in thescript had just said, you know,
Spader comes up from behind the ladyand responds to the shouting through the door.

(01:43:47):
No, he uses her buttocks asas a almost like a like a
pillow or a desk or something thathe can rest his face on while he
has to put up with the peopleoutside before he can then mount her and
do what he actually needs to doright right well, And that is the
best Spader moment in the whole movie, because it just shows how his casual,

(01:44:11):
unassuming attitude is to what in anyother movie, right, in any
other movie, if any other actoryou name, any other actor any other
movie apart from maybe Michael Douglas inthe middle of his nineties because you know,
sex addiction series whatever eggs, apartfrom him, any other actor in

(01:44:33):
a scene like that, it wouldbe like, Oh my god, did
you see you know so and soin this scene, Spader is so nonchalant
at the fact that his character introductionis him going down on a woman from
by. He uses her buttocks asa resting place for his face, and

(01:44:55):
they're not fake budocks. It's likean actress is buckocks. And that to
me was like, I'm like,Spader is just all over this. He's
just having a dream anyway, Sorry, go well, I was gonna say,
because even the way he says justjust a minute, just a minute,
Like even that tone that he has, it's I can't even do it
properly. I can't do it.Spader justice that it's like so unique to

(01:45:16):
how he would do that, likeany other actor would like overplay the whole
flustered and like, you know,like I had to pull my penis and
whatever, you know, like I'min the middle of having said you know,
like for him, it was almostlike kind of like a just just
a minute, just you know,kind of thing, and it kind of
punctuated all what you were talking aboutthere that it's like, you know that
the Spader hair is kind of partiallyaskew, the eyes are wide, it's

(01:45:41):
it's it's everything you talk about thesleazy Spader there. And what it told
me was there's only one person whowould have played this role, and it's
him, of course no, Andand that's that's the thing. I want
to be very clear, Like thesleazy Spader is never about, Like,
the seazy Spader is not the prolongedanal sex scene that he has with Debra
Kara Unger where she's talking about himhaving sex with the list coatis right,

(01:46:05):
that's not sleazy space. That's sleazySpader is the man who uses a woman's
buttocks as a face wrest because he'sannoyed at people shouting at him. That's
the difference. There's a difference.It's not about the sexual act. It's
about Spader being nonchalant to the set. If Spader is engaged and enjoying the

(01:46:26):
sex. It's less he has tobe. Kind of the reason why Secretary
works as well. Is he sononchalant about it? Exactly now, Now
he's meant to be because that's thekink in that particular film or the sexuality
in that particular film. But youknow that that she is submissive to him,
right, But right, so he'sgot to be nonchalant. But but
the the Spader count like Spader beingengaging in ridiculous sex like of course,

(01:46:53):
we I mean, that's just that'swhat we expect. It's almost when he
when he doesn't, but you knowhe's thinking about it. That's where the
sleeves lives all where he uses awoman's buttocks to rest his face because they
just happened to be right in frontof him. Look at look at the
car accident scene right where okay,he just been in his car acteridn't and

(01:47:14):
the other car right the man hasflown through his windshield and is dead.
Right, Spader's nose is cracked,he's got cuts all over his face.
What does he do? He looksacross to the other car where Holliy Hunter,
whose husband has just died by flyingthrough the windshield. He looks over
and as she's trying to extricate herselffrom the safety belt, her breast is
revealed. Oh no, no,she she purposely pulls her Yeah. I

(01:47:38):
think well either way, right,either way he finds people with this King
with no problem at all, Likehe crashes into the one car on the
motorway where the wife of the guywho's just been horribly killed is also aroused
by the I mean I took herto I thought she pulled it open.
I didn't. Maybe I think itwas. I thought it was accidental.

(01:47:58):
But either way, that's where hewasn't. I mean, you're right out
the King park because when they havetheir sex scene, right, her line
is the the parking lot the airportshould be pretty vacant, or should should
be, you know, is it. It's the biggest parking lot. Of
people are walking all over the placewatching and not watching. Actually they don't
really care because again, they're inToronto, right, They're they're Canadians,

(01:48:18):
and they're just like you Americans.Just whatever ahead and have sex in our
in our garage here, you knowwhat I mean. Right, Not that
we wouldn't do that, not thatthe Canadians don't do that either, But
it sounds like just wouldn't make afilm about it, right exactly. This
is what Americans do find you're you'rehere in our country, just do your
thing and get the hell out ofhere. You know. It's like yeah,
wait, well wait they did makeI mean David Cronenberg's Canadian so I
guess then would make a film aboutit, right, Well, what's the

(01:48:39):
thing right, But they just wouldn'tfind it shocking. Everyone else clutched the
handbags when this movie came out,but Canada was just like, what are
you talking about? A it's probablynormally the Toronto, the Toronto International Airport.
People fucking in CAUs But I haveto see the thing is. And
here's my thing about Crash. AndI want to be very clear. I
think talking about Crash, yeah,it's much better than watching Crash. Yes,

(01:49:02):
yea, and so and and andI want to be clear, like
I Crash is a very well mademovie. My particular taste in movies is
that there is a storyline and characters, right, That's just my particular taste
of movies. And then then theycan do whatever they want, but there'll
be storyline and characters. Right,craphs doesn't have a storyline or any particular

(01:49:25):
characters. All the characters are muchthe same, right, they're they're all
they're all pretty the same, right, and and it's here's the thing,
there is and and and I wantto this is the best comparison. I
can't come with it. I don'tthink it's a very good comparison. The
best com perhapson I can't come upwith. Right. At its core,
there are kind of two types,two types of art, right, and

(01:49:49):
I'm just coming up with us now. So if there's more types of art,
like don't write letters right right,or write letters and I'll tell you
the fuck off. But there's essentiallythe art that p but go oh,
look at the art, right.And then there's the art that people go
oh, look at the pretty picturethat looks exactly like a landscape full of
beautiful things, right, yeah,right. And then there's other people that

(01:50:10):
look at you blank canvas with aspot on it and go oh, the
you know, the angst and theenuis of man's existence trying to deal with
the frustration of being alive and machineryand whatever, and you go, it's
a blue canvas with a red spoton it. But what you don't understand
is the complex fucking angst that butwhatever, And I'm like, no,
I do understand. It's a it'sa blue canvas with a red spot on

(01:50:32):
It doesn't mean fucking jack shit,no, but you have to understand that
the bleakness of the blue play blahblah blah, and the starkness of the
red and the contrast it talks aboutthe fucking anxiety and anguish that man goes
through them. It's a blue squarewith a red spot on it. Shut
up, right, that's my that'sme, right. I have no time
for modern art. I have notime for fucking Oh we took twenty fridges,

(01:50:54):
cover them into our polling and wrapthem together with bungee cord. Look
at the fucking man's wasteful technology.No, you took twelve fridges, you
wrapped it in bungee corn. Buta fuck, it doesn't say anything.
It's just fridges and a bungee corn. Right, that's me. That's how
I respond to that particular art,right, Yeah, other people love to
sit there and talk about. Infact, if you go through, if

(01:51:15):
you look up crash, Google crash, go through the imd trivia of Crash.
There's any number of Like Sue andSo wrote an article in the pretentious
news press where he said that,you know, of course crashes, look
at the modern machinery and the blahblah blah blah blah. I'm like,
it's people fucking in car accidents,That's what it is. It's people fucking
character. Right. So I andeven with my most pretentious film, hat

(01:51:40):
On, I can't find much meaningin Crash. However, talking about Crash,
you can make it like you cantalk about lots of stuff in Crash,
Right, Vaughan could have been areally interesting character, and it's certainly
the most interesting character in the film. Yeah, but his character only goes
as far as all the other charactersdoes. Right. But He's like the

(01:52:03):
movie should be about him, right, And it should be about people coming
to this cult or this kink orthis finding that they're having these feelings right
around death and violence and sex andwhatever. Because all of that I get,

(01:52:23):
right, I get the idea ofsex in public, sex around taboo
areas, like sex at a funeral, Like I totally understand that as a
kink, I wouldn't do it personallybut I understand it as a kink.
Um. I like that this filmis non judgmental of the kink. It's
not king shaming, it's not whatever. If anything, it's celebrating it.

(01:52:44):
But it's also showing just how fuckinglike cold, repetitive and like this movie
is about addicts who never get satisfacfaction at all. Right, So there's
lots to talk about it, butwhen I watch Crash, it's um.
I don't get excited about watching it. Afterwards, I can probably talk about

(01:53:04):
it quite a bit and kind ofgo into different things, But I look
at it a bit like the bluecanvas with the red spot on it,
you know what I mean. Likeit's that kind of thing. It's a
movie that says, I want toput into the world the idea that human

(01:53:25):
sexuality is so weird and has suchbreadth in it. Right, It's why
I get so frustrated these days withlike all the labels people want to put
on shit. Right, Like ittook us. I don't know how many
years, hundreds of years of talkingabout human psychology before we realize that human
psychology was a spectrum, Well,human sexuality, it's a spectrum human sexual

(01:53:48):
desire is a spectrum. It doesn'texist in one cozy little place where Missionary
Position produces a child every nine months. And that's it. Like, it's
a spectrum of weird, quiet,sinister, you know, shameful thoughts that
almost I guarantee almost every human being, especially the ones that are just doing

(01:54:11):
like quiet missionary position, you know, every nine months or whatever have It's
it's a and so a movie thatkind of goes you know, human sexuality
is everything that's included in this andmore right, I appreciate that. I
just would appreciate it. If yougo back to Cronenberg's earlier movies, where

(01:54:34):
he's making genre film, whether it'shorror, sci fi whatever, he's talking
about all the same themes. He'stalking about the same themes of sex and
death and violence and disfigurement and embodieddysmorphie and all this other stuff. He's
talking about all that stuff in hisearly movies. But because it's got a
plot and characters and a genre andyou know, has some genre beats in

(01:54:57):
it and there's a beginning, middle, and end, I'm far more attracted
to it. And I'll still getall the human sexuality is fucked up.
Human existence is fucked up. Peoplelike watching violent, gory, weird things.
People slow down as they drive pastcar accidents. If there's a burning
building in a town, everyone willshow up and look at it, like
and I love a movie that's gonnabe like, that's what humanity is,

(01:55:20):
because that's how I feel about humanity. Humanity is messy, fucked up,
weird, dangerous, diverse and ona spectrum. Right, So I love
that that's what the movie says.I just wish it said it with a
plot and characters and a through linethat's all. Yeah. I mean again,

(01:55:41):
I love this movie, and like, I don't know about the rewatchability.
Like watching it this recent time,I was like, yeah again,
it was really enjoy it. Imean, I think there's something about the
interplay between Elias Cotaius and Spader whereSpader's get the sleazy part right, and
kotais is not like another He's adifferent kind of sleazy, where it's like
he plays this character, this voncharacter who's just like so obsessed with car

(01:56:04):
accidents and getting laid and having sectI mean, I mean that scene where
they pick up the hooker and they'rejust you know, and and he's like
this whole piece that they have tohave him there where he's telling the hooker
to open her mouth so he couldtake her gum out of her mouth,
like all these little things that happenedthere. But it's like Kotais is just
like this this strong like thing wherehe like like you know, the whole
thing where they're real sorry, I'mkind of all over the place, but

(01:56:24):
where they're they're reenacted, Like yeah, they're reenacting those car accidents. They
reenact at the car accident of theJames Dean car accident, and this guy
c Grave who's like a stunt driverwho has been like seriously injured, right,
he's got like a very bad concussion. They escape the cops and they
go back to this house to Kotaishas with all these other people that are
into car accidents, and that's whereSpader meets them all. And the first
thing Kotais does is he goes tothis guy c Grave who he's recovering from

(01:56:46):
his his his his accident, andhe says, I want to remake the
man's field accident, you know,And and he's like going over the details
of that, like he just hasto go from one accident to another,
and he's like constantly like you know, he's trying to you know, may
put um you know, Spader's wifein a cars and he's trying to get
her in the cars he's you know, and then like when he has sex
with with Spader's wife, it's justlike this really like violent kind of thing

(01:57:09):
where she's got bruises all over andthen they have sex after and they're like
looking at the bruises and it's like, you're right, like from a plot
standpoint, it is just like youknow, going from one place to them
having sex, and it's like youkind of know where the end is going
to be with it, and it'sjust kind of like when you're gonna get
there, like when you know,when are we going to get to this
part where katais finally just does it. You know, he's just too much
and he gets you do a bigaccident. But I don't know, there's

(01:57:30):
there's just something about it for methat like it just all worked and I
don't know why. I don't knowwhy. It's definitely a compelling film.
I'm not gonna say that it's notcompelling, and I'm certainly I certainly don't
hate it. I don't want anyoneto hate I think that I hate it.
I think that there's a lot ofworth while in it. I just

(01:57:51):
it's not my taste of film.Every scene that's in this movie could be
in the version of this film thatI would make, or I would want
to see if someone else made it. Um, but there would there would
be more to it, is whatI'm saying. It seems like a very
empty film, and it's the onlythe only reason why I find that a

(01:58:13):
little problematic is because I'd rather watchthis movie as a non judgmental, non
king shaming film, and I findthat the emptiness in it is almost making
commentary on on this a little alittle piece on on on Vaughn and Spader's
character. So this is how Isee it, right, So, uh,
you know Fear and Loathing in LasVegas, right now, that's the

(01:58:33):
book on the movie, right,Yeah, So what's really interesting about that?
Uh, those two characters in thein the book, it's Hunters.
Thompson is rold Duke, right andand and his lawyer, um is doctor
Gonzo. Yeah. So what's reallyinteresting about doctor Gonzo is Doctor Gonzo is
the He's the original he's the weirdone. He's the this is just how

(01:58:59):
he is. And that's not tosay that Huntress Thompson isn't weird, or
isn't extreme, or isn't whatever.But there's something unique about doctor Gonza.
Doctor Gonzo really doesn't give a fuck. This is who he is and this
is the life he's leading. Well, that's Vaughan, right, Vaughan's character
is the original. Right. He'snot a pretender, he's not pretentious,
he's not showing off. He isthe one that wanders the world, drifts

(01:59:24):
through the world, deciding random shitthat he wants to do, and he
goes. He just goes and doesit. Everyone else be damned, join
me or not? Right, Tyingit back to our conversation earlier about creativity,
right, we are the ones justdoing the creativity for the sake of
doing it. Everything else be damned. He's that same one. Now.
That doesn't mean to say that HundressThompson isn't original in his own way,

(01:59:45):
or that Spader didn't come to hiskink in this movie originally, but Spader
is in a way that Hundress Thompsonis with doctor Gonzo. Spader is catching
up right, he is weirdly enough, even though you know we meet Spader
as already, um, you knowthis sex craved um, you know,

(02:00:09):
floppy head Lothario. Um, thisworld whatever this world is of car X
and sex and whatever is currently inSpader's existence reduced to just him and Deborah
car Anger. And they kind ofhave their you know, they have their
plans and you know, they purposelylive in an apartment that overlooks the freeway

(02:00:29):
and you know what I mean.And they have their ideas, but but
they're also sort of they're not quitefulfilling it. They're just they have this
idea like maybe we'll she'll go downto their hanger and rub her nipple against
a plane and he'll have sex withhis uh cinematographer. But it's not,
Um, it's not a fully formedcult. They're not an original, they're

(02:00:53):
not they're not asking for followers,right, Vaughan who is an arsking followers
either, But but it's is puttingit out there into a Vaughn is the
original, right, So I lookat it like that, like there's an
interesting dynamic there, um, andit's the you know, uh, too
weird to live, too rare todie, thing. That's that's that's Vaughan
to quote fair and loathing. SoI got that from it and quite enjoyed

(02:01:16):
that. But because because again itdoesn't it doesn't really go anywhere, like
it's there. I can talk aboutit, I can hypothesize about it.
I can pull it out and go, oh, that's an interesting dynamic between
two characters. And yes, weuse Spader as our what's really creepy about
Crashes. Spader is the audience substitute. And I didn't necessarily like being put

(02:01:38):
in Spader's uh, sticky pants,but that's that's that's where I was put
and I had to navigate this worldwearing uh Spader's stained wife rounds. But
right, um uh, but heis the one that takes us through this
world. In fact, even whenhe meets Holly Hunter, she's more in

(02:01:58):
the world than he. Holly Hunterkind of like exposes this stuff to her
to him, so there's like,again, there's like some interesting things there.
But and I I don't know,is Deborah carra Unger the vacuum that
sucks everything out of this film?Like meaning that when all roads like,
you've got this interesting dynamic, right, Holly Hunter, is this widow wife

(02:02:21):
of this guy who happens to die. She's already aroused by things. She
loves fucking guys in cars. Shetells Spada that she's had tons of guys
in cars at the Toronto Airport.They probably should have just named her parking
Bay after and got on with it, because you know, good for her,
good for her, honestly, noshame where I'm concerned, like you

(02:02:42):
have at it, lady, pleasem she knows. Vaughan Vaughn is this
guy who, like you say,is kind of does these car accident demonstrations
but also like is building to beggerand weirder and crazier things and lives in
this sort of commune with these peoplewho have been in car accidents. Rosanna
Arquette with her leg and her woundand everything. Um. And Spader is

(02:03:04):
the sort of curious you know,he's probably in his group the most you
know, depraved, but in thisgroup suddenly he's the nubie right right right,
yeah. But whenever it comes backto Debrah Kara Unger like when whenever

(02:03:25):
Spader goes back to her, oryou know, she shows up in the
film again, because she's not reallywe don't follow her at any point we
follow Spader, she just kind ofcrops up. Whatever I feel like,
any any interesting kind of character progressionabout what Spader has learned and whatever kind
of goes nowhere. Yeah, Idon't really And I think the end of

(02:03:46):
the movie, you know, Vaughanand Holly Hunter, well she so,
Yeah, Vaughn and Holly Hunter havegone away. They're no longer kind of
hanging out with them, h andthey're playing around with each other to see
if Spader and her can kind ofdo the car accident thing and whatever,
and they do, and she survivesand they have sex, and while they're

(02:04:09):
having sex, he says, maybenext time, right, which is meant
to be like, oh, I'mso aroused at the thought of dying that,
you know, bring me as closeto death as possible, and you
know, I'll be all aroused andwe can have sex and stuff. But
it doesn't like all roads that mightbe interesting stop at her, And in
fact I find her the most.We have an expression in the UK.

(02:04:31):
I don't know if it's over here, but po faced it just means kind
of serious and a little stuck upand a little pretentious. It's like po
face It like kind of the facethat Christians make when you, you know,
show them a comic book or showthem any kind of joy in the
world. You know, they kindof make a face like don't like like
clutch their pearls or whatever that AndI find her a bit like that.

(02:04:56):
I just find a very po facedand dry, and I feel like any
alluring excitement that is in this moviedies with her. Yeah, now that
I can, I'll give you there, because it's like I mean, it
was. I think one of theproblems from me when some of these things
like you're talking about is that,like, for example, that scene where
she's having sex with with with spaderUm and while he's you know, having

(02:05:21):
sex with her, she's going throughthis whole monologue of like what you know,
do you want to know? Doyou want to have sex with Elias
quotation you want to you know,you want to put your penis in his
anis? Right? And she saidit like very clinically if I remember,
I don't remember exactly, something likeyou know, do you think about his
anis? Do you think you know? Like it was like just kept saying
the word anis, like I don'tknow how many times in a sex scene.
Um that I've heard that that youknow that there was used, but

(02:05:44):
you're you're right, But I waskind of more like, what is Spader
doing? You know what I mean, It's like this is Spader thing that's
happening here? Or like when shehas the sex scene is the very beginning
with the whole airport thing. You'reright, Like, she's not really bringing
much except for the fact that she'sbeautiful, you know, there's not much
there, but it's funny. Theguy that she has sex with, he's
like he has this like very sinewy, like Willem Dafoe quality to him,
right that it was just like whatis going on here? She's like having

(02:06:06):
sex with a lizard man or something, and and it's like, and I
don't know, there's something about theway that that Cronenberg crafted some of those
scenes where he's just like, yeah, that's what I want here, and
she's like he's like eating her assum, you know, and it's like,
here's the lizard man here, justlike you know, Um, I
don't know, And I guess Imean that's part of what it was with
for me with Anger, like youknow the end of the movie, right,
she's just lying there with her woundswhile well, James Spader's like,

(02:06:29):
I'm going to have sex with youwhile you're recovering from this car accident.
And maybe that's kind of the extentof it, right, is that that's
what she's there for. Like youknow, Elia's cotais is just like you
know, like like bruising her whenthey're having sex. And uh, it's
you know, she's there to belike kind of the model type I guess
or something. But you're right there, she's not contributing a lot to the
film, right, Like there's notlike you're not saying to yourself, like

(02:06:50):
like the way with Holly Hunter,where you're like, Okay, she's doing
something in the movie that's very youknow, it's Holly Hunter. Like I
do you know if they just gottenyou know, um, if they just
went into the Indian you know,Christmas movie well and just grabbed a woman
and said here we go. Youknow, um, you could be Holly
Hunter's car. It probably wouldn't haveworked as well it was with Deborah care
Hunger you do kind of I mean, I don't know she she played the

(02:07:11):
part well, she she I guessthe best thing that she does in the
movie is that if I was thinkingwho James Spader's character's wife would be,
it would be her. So Iguess that part of it really worked.
But I know what you mean bythe way, I guess found a bit
of trivia on the movie. Ithink this has got to be fake,
okay, And I will have tolook I'll have to look at this up
afterwards. But one of the triviasays that Michael Hutchins Hutchins, Hutchins was

(02:07:36):
offered the role of Vaughan. MichaelHutchins was obviously the um an excess composer
who literally killed himself by autoerotic fhyxiationin his closet, And I've got to
imagine that, like unless cron unlesshe called Cronenberg up and was like,
by the way, I love tostrangle myself while I joke off, and

(02:07:57):
Cronenberg was like, great, we'llput you in the field. I don't
believe that's real. I think someonejust put that on IMDb because of Hutchins
and death in the UK. Youknow, we we we have this weird

(02:08:28):
history of like these banning films,right because stuff can be banned in the
UK can't be banned over here becauseof freedom of speech. We have freedom
of speech in the UK, butit's it's it's not absolute right right,
And we have the BBFC, whichare literally like film censors. It's not
the MPAA, who were just arating board, ratings board, although people
see it as censorship. Over there, we have actual sensorship. And for

(02:08:52):
years there was a Video Recordings Act. They banned a bunch of movies based
on that, all of which havenow been unbanned, but they were like
horror movies mainly when this movie cameout. There's a newspaper called The Daily
Mail that is like the pearl clutching, purse clutching, handwringing, you know,
conservative, moral majority newspaper, andit's an absolute villainous rag like it

(02:09:13):
should should never be allowed to bepublished. But they're always the ones that
want to banned films. They wantedto ban Child's Played two after Jamie Boulger,
a small child was killed by twoother kids on railroad tracks because they
believed they were enacting Child's Play two, after we had a guy with a

(02:09:33):
shotgun kill a few people. Theywanted to ban Rambo. You know,
they always want to ban a filmand an album before they want to actually
deal with the issue, right,kind of the tip of gore thing that
you had over here with you know, obscene lyrics on CD. Oh yes,
yeah, the original Karen Yeah,right exactly. So they said like
that this film needed to be banned, blah blah blah blah blah. So

(02:09:56):
the BBFC they consulted a lawyer rightto make sure that it didn't contravene the
Obscene Publications Act. Right, Theyspoke to a psychologist to see if it
could incite copycat behavior, and theyeven talked to a group of disabled people
to see if the character played byRosanna Arkatt could at all be taken offensively.
Right. Right after speaking to allthese people, the BBFC was like,

(02:10:18):
they all seem fine with it.We're putting it out uncut, right,
the BBFC put it out uncut.The reason why I bring this up
is not like the interesting historical thingabout the BBFC. The reason why I
bring this up is, you know, we live in a world now where
people are offended by fucking everything right, right, and outraged by everything.
And I love the approach that theBBFC took here. Right, they went,

(02:10:39):
I'm going to speak to a groupof people about this. I'm going
to make sure that legally we're ona good footing, and I'm going to
make sure that like a bunch ofpeople in you know, who are disabled
and whatever are not offended by this. Of course they weren't. They looked
at it and they were like,whatever, it's a movie, like just
fucking put it out, shut up, right. And that's what I love
about is it's like, that's kindof the way ship should be done,
right, instead of being a bunchof people, because, like you said,

(02:11:01):
the Karens of the world are notthe disabled people. They're not the
lawyers, and they're not the psychologists, right. The Karens of the world
are just regularly able bodied people,right who they haven't even seen crash.
They just hear that there's a scenein which James Spade Fox the leg wound
and they're like, this has towe have the band this horrible movie,

(02:11:22):
right right, And that's my wholepoint. I'm like, instead of being
offended on the behalf of people ofthe people right right, I'm offended because
there was a lesbian stereotype and asitcom. I'm like, wait, but
we're lesbians defended did anyone else lesbianswhat they felt about it. Right.
There's a really interesting documentary coming outwhere trans Kid grew up watching Chasing Amy

(02:11:46):
and loving it because it was theonly depiction of LGBTQ characters that they could
find at that time, right,growing up, Right, And as they
grew up and the Internet became moreprevalent and whatever, learned that some of
the LGBTQ community in that film problematic, right They you know, the fact
that the woman could decide to gooff with a guy or whatever. They
see it as like the straight whitemale fantasy, right, which which it

(02:12:09):
is, and it isn't Like Ithink the movie does explain itself, but
it's perfectly legitimate to to to watchit in that in that regard, right,
And they are making a documentary aboutthis um thing called Chasing Chasing Amy,
talking about how the movie totally inspiredthem, allowed them to come out

(02:12:30):
to their parents, gave them anexample of representation on screen, blah blah
blah blah blah, and even thoughit's problematic to some people to that particular
person like, it gave them thefreedom they needed right to to grow up
honestly and transition to who they wantedto be and everything else right, So,
and I always i'll watch that documentarybecause to me, that's the whole

(02:12:54):
point, like being outraged on behalfof like your who you represent. Absolutely
Like, if if you're a disabledperson you watch Crash and it offends you,
that's that's absolutely fine. Right.But if you're an able bodied person
and Crash offends you because there's adisabled person having sex and the legment that's
not your, you don't have anyright to be offended. You can be

(02:13:16):
offended by the concept, right,you can be like, oh, how
shocking, how disgusting, that's great, don't watch the movie, right,
don't don't watch the phone, Butuh, you can't be offended on behalf
of disabled people, is my point, um, And and that's that's why
I like. I don't often supportthe BBFC, but I like that the
BBFC when let's just double check witha with three like logical groups of people,

(02:13:41):
right, psychologists, lawyers, andthe group that might actually be offended
by this thing, check that everything'sokay, it is great. We're putting
the movie out uncut, and that'swhat it should be like. So that's
why I wanted to make that noI think it's a perfect thing because here
in the US we have this issuewith Native America, with teams that have
Native America in names, and alot of times what these teams will do

(02:14:03):
is still find the one Native Americangroup that will say, yeah, I'm
okay with you having that name rightand say that's all Native Americans. They
all of the name, when there'slike ten or fifteen groups out there that
are like, no, we don'tlike the name. It's offensive. We've
got, you know, quantitative proofthat shows that attitudes towards Native Americans become
more negative if there are teams withthese kinds of names, you know,
like all that stuff is there.And I think it's exactly I think to

(02:14:26):
your point, like you kind ofgo into some more kind of official places
and say what do you think youknow? And I think kind of the
way you talk about the BBC doingit, I think that's probably the best
way of like, hey, let'sjust talk to a few people and get
some opinions on it, as opposedto being like, well, these people
said it was okay, so it'snot offensive to them, you know,
And it's like, look, it'snever going to be clear. Cup with
exactly the same with the case ofracist or offensive sports team's name. Yeah,

(02:14:56):
I'm of the opinion just change thename and get on with it exactly
exactly. Who gives a fuck likecall it the Iowa Flems or whatever,
like, who gives a fun like, It doesn't matter, call it the
you know, big Dicks or whatever, like, I don't give call it
whatever you want, just don't callit something like that is offensive. Right,
You wouldn't call it. You wouldn'tcall it the the Michigan Blackfaces or

(02:15:20):
whatever. So don't call it theRedskins or whatever it is, right,
Just just you know it's wrong.We don't ask anyone about it. You
know it's a shitty name, right, just like you know that unless you're
portraying him in a biopic, doingwhat al Jolson did is not really very
good anymore. You know it's thewrong thing to do. Just don't do
it anymore, right, right?Right? It? Um? But something

(02:15:43):
like this where it's a car rectmovie, right um, and could be
triggering for some people obviously because peoplehave been in car rex or people have
been damaged or whatever. Right,Um, I have no problem like asking
people like you know what you feelabout this film, but at the same
time, like I wouldn't ban itbased on that, right, It's more

(02:16:03):
like, you know, you've beenin Cark says, you know, this
is something that troubles you don't watchthe movie, and I think I think
that's an important piece too. Ithink you know, Jen was talking about
this with like these you know,um kind of going back through you know,
like the John Hughes catalog or whateverand talking about like all of the
horrible things, and it's kind ofmore the sense of like you watch the
movie and you recognize what's bad aboutit, and also you kind of give

(02:16:26):
people this kind of this warning thatlike, okay, there's this thing that
might happen, and we like,for example, sixteen Candles right when you
know, um long or whatever theright or yeah, Anthony Michael Hall's taking
this girl who's you know, completelypassed out dead drunk around, you know,
and it's like, Okay, that'snot really something that we would put
in a movie nowadays, unless wewere doing like a you know, even
like a lifetime movie about that kindof thing that in a serious way probably

(02:16:48):
wouldn't be that to that graphic,to that level of having somebody just being
carted around. Who's who's that drunk? But I think it's good to be
like, Okay, you know,if you're someone who's been in this unfortunately,
had you know, been in asituation like that, and it's it's
traumatic for you, you really shouldn'tgo near sixteen candles. You shouldn't watch
it. And we should also recognizethat that that wasn't a good thing for
them to put in the movie.But like the movie still exists, you

(02:17:11):
know, or like Crash for example, right, Like you know, um,
I think Crash is probably a differentone because, like you said,
with Crash, it was like theytalk to people who were disabled and said,
what do you think about this RosannaArquette character, Like what's wrong with
it? Like what is you know, there's there's nothing, there's not any
place in the movie where she's diminishingor I don't there's she's on the same
level as all the other characters,except she's just not in the film as

(02:17:33):
much. But in terms of herher kink and her whatever, it's yeah,
it's absolutely, it's absolutely fine,and it's perfect representation and in that
regard and within the context of thisparticular film. Yeah, So yeah,
it's it's um, it's a weirdold world out there. But don't be
offended on other people's behobs. You'reallowed to be offended on your own behab,
but don't be offended on other people'sbhobs because it ain't your fucking place.

(02:17:56):
You know what I mean, besupport I don't be offended. That's
that's my thing. People have conflatedbeing offended with being supportive. Right,
So if someone says puts out astand up comedy routine about trans people,
a bunch of non trans people havebecome offended by that right and they want

(02:18:18):
to cancel Dave Chappelle or whatever.Right, don't be offended on your behalf
because you didn't like it, andbe supportive of trans people in other ways.
If there's a trans artist you like, support their art. If there's
a trans sports person who like,go support that team. If there's you
know, there's trans people in yourneighborhood. You have a bake sale,
go buy their bake. But butdon't being offended on their behalf does literally

(02:18:43):
nothing other than tell everyone what awonderful person you are, right exactly,
So that's just don't watch the comedyact and I think maybe to a different
level with the whole thing with RosannaArquette's character is actually there's kind of a
different thing going on there where it'slike, can't disabled people have sex?
Because it's of course, you know, there's nothing really about her character having

(02:19:03):
sex with James Spader, it's anythingthat's really bad about it. It's no
different from any other characters having sexand in a scene. So in that
sense it shouldn't be you know,it's almost offensive to people who are disabled
to make it sound like they shouldn'thave sex in a movie, you know.
So apologies, we sadly have topause for some ads. Maybe if

(02:19:24):
more of you supported us on Patreon, But there it is, so,
I believe it or not. Iwas having such a good time talking about
crash, and there was still morethings that we wanted to talk about that
we had a second call the followingday, Matt and myself and talked for
even a longer period of time.Well look, if you already think this

(02:19:45):
episode is too long, then you'llprobably right. But I thought about,
well, maybe I could put thisout at day one, and then the
other episode is day two, andnow it's all one old style after movie
Dina Behemoth episode deal with it.I tell you what. Look, it's
a podcast. You can stop andstart it right, Listen to the first

(02:20:07):
hour one day, second hour thenext day, third hour the next day,
fourth out the next day, giveit a rest for a day,
and then there'll be another episode out. So I don't know what you're complaining
about, or if you're even complaininganyway over the show. Because I watched
I watched a lot of James Spaderinterviews, well not just about the movie,

(02:20:28):
but just I watched a lot ofJames Spader interviews today, and I
think that sends me a little peculiar, but it also reminds me just why
I kind of marvel at the guy. Yes, sorry, my dog was
just itching her and she let outof Yeah, of course she can't.
Like earlier, she was just sleepingquietly, and now of course she's going
to itch and make noises and yeah, yeah, sorry anyway, Well,

(02:20:52):
no, it sends me peculiar andmakes but it also reminds me exactly why
I do this, because Spader isjust such an intriguing conundrum of a man.
He is. I mean, Ifeel like I'm probably one of the
few people that watched Pretty in Pinkand was like, my, my,
you know, Spader's character was myfavorite character, and I was hoping he
would have ended up with with umboy Ringwalt at the end, you know,

(02:21:16):
and it just like like yeah,but there is. It's it's funny
like when you were talking about theship the movie, like having like no
plot and all that stuff. Ihave no clue why all of that worked
for me, but it does.And it's like I think the Spader part
of it is the intriguing Spader aspectof it combined with the Elias cotais I
guess, the two of them together, it's it's like the buddy cop movie

(02:21:37):
I didn't know I needed. Andit's exactly like the way I would want
a buddy cop movie with those twoto pay with this them getting into car
accidents and like having sex with otherwomen and potentially each other, right well,
and they do, but I meanthe much um so, since since
I watched the film and then yesterdaytalking about it and having watched all this

(02:21:58):
supplemented ma too. There is athirty seven minute press conference from can when
it when it when it debuted there, and I mean utterly utterly bizarre press
conference, just an utterly bizarre pressconference because no one really knows, like
they ask essentially a lot of thesame questions, and it's sort of no

(02:22:22):
no one asks. And this isthe problem with the press conference, right
is no one asks the questions theyreally and I think also when people talk
about this film, no one asksor the questions or talks about what they
really want to talk about with thisfilm, right, which is right,
Um, there is one guy Ithink this is a famous clip, but
there is one guy who gets upand goes, why didn't we see James

(02:22:43):
barnas carc like essentially that's this question. His question is why why when there's
so much female nudity, is ifthey're not more full frontal male nudity,
right to which gronerbergs any any Andthe guy who asked the question seems to
imply that he's asking the question becauseyou're like, oh, you yet again
made a movie where all the womenget naked and the men don't. Was

(02:23:03):
the way he phrased the question,right right, right, to which Cronenberg
goes, well, that's not trueat all. I think James is like
completely naked in the film. Right, um, And I was trying to
think, like, actually, whilethere's a lot of sex in the film,
and while there's even nudity in thefilm that you wouldn't expect, like
you see, you haven't see fullon vatual need to b see pubic region

(02:23:28):
nudity, especially when it comes tothe females. Um And but there isn't
a lot of nudity, Like alot of the sex seems a pretty clothed.
There's the odd nipple here and there, there's there's sort of sort of
buducks at the beginning, But thefully nude sex scene between Spader and Deborah
car I'm going they're both fully nude, right, I think, is Cronenberg's

(02:23:50):
pointing answering the question. And thenSpader loosely leads Spader, who doesn't move
his sunglass, hits for the wholething, right and his chain smoking cigarette
and blowing the smoke up into theair just to like accentuate just how much
he's smoking right right right, leansforward and says, I think it's because

(02:24:15):
in the most of the scenes we'refucking. That's what the word he uses.
Right. He goes, you don'tknow what way he goes I think
it's purely to do with geography.Right. He calls it jogu. I
find so intriguing. And then hegoes, you know because in all the
scenes we're fucking, and when you'rewhen you're fucking, you don't see the

(02:24:35):
penis, was his response, right, which I think is hilarious. Right,
because the guy is asking a guy'sasking a question like in a film,
that's the question you should have asked, right, is in a film
that is daring and unfettered, andeveryone seems to be like into it,

(02:24:56):
Like why is there you know alot of close up nipple stuff, breast
stuff? Why is their pubic moundclose ups? But there's no apart from
like you know, chests and armsand legs or whatever, there's no like

(02:25:18):
male equivalency, right, yeah,which is which is interesting. Like,
Interestingly, that's a fair enough questionfrom movie like this. It wouldn't be
a fair question for say, youknow, a rom com that happened to
have a sex scene in it,right, because mostly in those scenarios the
film is not about that particular sexscene, and therefore it plays to the

(02:25:41):
conventions of the movie in which it'sin. Right, where the woman can
either choose to go bad breasted ornot. But then the rest of it
is mainly kind of softcore dry humpingtype stuff, right, right, in
a film like this, it isfair to say, like, hey,
everyone's having sex with everybody, right, you know. For example, the

(02:26:01):
Rosanna arct scene, right, JamesSpader is not doing anything with her breasts,
but her breasts are out in thatscene, Spader remains completely fully closed,
so it is all worthwhile quite youknow what I mean. And there's
other movies where men after having sexwith a woman will at least kind of
get up and walk around naked,even to go to the bathroom or whatever,

(02:26:24):
and you see buducks and a hintof a penis or whatever. I
mean, it's rare that you seelike full frontal cock. But um,
it's it's a fair enough question.And Spader's response is a little ridiculous,
but it's a wonderful moment nonetheless.Right, Yeah, Well, the funny

(02:26:45):
thing you mentioned about can because Iwas looking at them the trivia a little
bit on IMDb, but this andI remember hearing something about this before that.
Apparently this movie is the reason thatthey retired the jury, the special
Jury Prize. Well no, sothere's there's a jury prize every year,
right, but there's only a specialJury Prize, which, to be honest,

(02:27:05):
sounds like a participation or a runnertrophy. Right, Yeah, there's
there's only a special Jury Prize whenthe jury is split and chooses to give
a secondary prize. Movies were givena special Jury Prize prior to Crash.
Apparently there has not been a specialJury Prize handed out since Crash. Right,

(02:27:28):
that doesn't necessarily mean they were tiredit, but like unofficially it feels
like because apparently like it was almostlike the Special Jury Prize was an f
you to Coppola, who was likethat the jury head who was aghast at
this movie, which I think ishilarious too, right, right, Well,
yeah, no, I find itodd that Francis Ford Coppola was was
so aghast at the film. Yeah, but but no, so, so

(02:27:50):
what I want to say, sincesince sort of first seeing the film and
and my response to it remains,my response to the content of the film
remains unchanged, right, but myresponse to what the film is about,
right, and what they were tryingto achieve, I think I crudely yesterday
compared it to like the two typesof art, right, modnart and art.

(02:28:13):
That's that's actually of something, AndI think that's I would go back
on that now. I think Ithink that's unfair of me to have said
that. I think, having heardpeople talk about it, having heard Ballad
talk about it, having heard Cronenbergtalk about it, having heard having read
up on it a little bit,the film is exactly the film they set
out to make, right, Right, They weren't. They weren't trying to

(02:28:35):
make like, they weren't trying tomake a film about anything other than what
they put on screen. Right,So when I get, you know,
upset at films where fuckle happens,and then like pretentiously, someone comes out
afterwards and goes, well, reallyit's about the you know, en way
of existence or you know, it'sactually actually it was about the paternity case

(02:28:58):
that I had over a child thatI found out that I had or something.
And you're like, but nothing inthe movie was about that. You
know, three people stared out ofa window, someone shot someone and someone
I haggus or something, and you'relike, what but that stuff, you
know what I mean? Like it'sso I was unfair in that, and
I want to say that the Crashisn't that like what. In fact,

(02:29:18):
the more you read about Crash andthe more you listen to people talk about
Crash, it's exactly the movie theyall set out to make. It's like
to the letter, the movie theyset out to make. Like there was
there was zero compromise on the partof the producers, the director, or
the cast. All the cast willinglysigned on for the script. The film
is very close to the script,and as far as Ballad's concerned, the

(02:29:39):
film pushes the themes of the bookbeyond the book, right yea. And
in fact, Ballad even talks aboutHe's like, you know, my hardest
thing in the book was I wasconstantly having to try and come up for
reasons. So all the things Iwas talking about yesterday about like you know,
I don't understand necessarily their motivations orhow these characters found each other,
or what the through line is andblah blah blah blah blah. The Ballad

(02:30:01):
actually says, like I spend timewrestling with that in the book. The
best thing about the movie is Cronenbergdid away with that. Cronenberg's attitude was
well, all these people have thesame fetish away we go kind of thing,
which it certainly cuts through, youknow a lot of convolution, like

(02:30:22):
how do you write a scene wayslike you know, well, sheepishly over
a coffee in a cafe. Youknow, I'm into fucking in car Rex.
Oh really, you know I couldtry that, Like it's you know
what I mean, it's it's it'snot necessarily kind of eat the scene in
a movie that necessary drives it.Um. I think my criticism of the
films, like not having more broadcharacters, not expanding on Vaughan's thing,

(02:30:45):
et cetera, et cetera, Istill understand that would be a different movie,
right. I'm not trying to saythat that is the movie that that
Cronenberg set out to me. Ithink the movie and the reasons why they
set out to make this movie whatit is fine, and I think that
the end result speaks exactly to that. I think what I will modify my
review too, is that it asas interesting as the subject matter is.

(02:31:13):
And the subject matter is interesting,I don't just mean like sex for the
sake of sex. I mean allthe places you can take that machinery,
cars, you know, body modificationversus car modification. How we treat you
know, um Cronenberg mentioned something thatcan press conference about, like film and
cinema, sorry, cars and cinemakind of starting at the same time and

(02:31:37):
being the same age, and sortof how cinema liberates and how cars deliberate,
and sort of some comparisons there,which yeah, are a bit like
on the nose pretentious, but there'sthere's something there, right, There's something
in the scenes with Vaughan being fascinatedover the big metal contraption that Spader is
using to hold his leg together inthe hospital, and the kind of fascination

(02:32:01):
that Spader has the twisted over thetwisted metal of the cars and the junkyards
and things like that. So there'ssome really interesting things there. I just
don't think it necessarily makes for acompelling film that you'd want to rewatch.
But I think that, like Isaid yesterday, the discussion around it is
far more fascinating than maybe the filmitself. But that means the film is

(02:32:26):
successful because the film does exactly whatit's set out to do, right,
And what I like about being ableto talk about it on a podcast like
this versus you know, some TonightShow or whatever or some official film review
program, is you can't talk candidlyabout it on those shows. Like Yeah,

(02:32:48):
I think that's the problem that Spaderhas and even Kronenberg has when being
interviewed about the thing is they can'treally say, you know, everything that
they would like to in the sameway that we can. There was something
interesting that came up in the canPress conference as well that was about sort
of I think one of the criticssaid something about like the detachment of the

(02:33:11):
characters, and I think Cronenberg wastalking about that as well, and he
Cronenberg mentions, he's like, youknow, it would be a different film
if we made it now, becauseyou know a few months later, because
sort of the advent of the internet, and so he said. I also
think he said kind of what Isaid yesterday, which is he talks about
human sexuality post you know, invitro fertilization and being able to essentially produce

(02:33:35):
a child with neither partner having evermet, right and certainly never having had
sex. He's like, you know, sex started off as we were animals
to have babies, right once wecould do that without having to have sex,
which we can do now sex becamea human construct, right, which
is kind of what I was sayingabout sexuality kind of being on the spectrum,

(02:33:56):
And he said, I think itgives way to far more experimentation and
open mindedness and and danger and otherstuff, all this sort of part of
sexuality, which is sort of againwhat I was kind of alluding to yesterday.
And I think that when you talkabout that and then you look at
like the advent of the Internet,and then you put it together with the

(02:34:18):
comment about like the characters being detachedin a weird way, in a weird
way, crash could be looked atas you know, I know we've made
this joke before on mos Old show, but about like subreddits, right,
about various kicks on subreddits, ButI mean any internet forum, right,

(02:34:41):
you know, the Internet once Iforget what they call the rule, but
there is a rule that if youcan think about it, there's pawn on
the internet about it. Right.So you know, if your thing is,
like I don't know, dressing awoman up as a given in a
big flowery hat and you know,having her milker austra or something, you
could probably find that on the rightum and there would be a subreddit,

(02:35:07):
uh, you know, dedicated tothat, and in a weird way,
Crash examines the humans that would andprobably do, on a daily basis participate
in a you know, porn hubforum or a you know or an adults

(02:35:28):
only chat room or whatever on theinternet, or even in the comments underneath
pawn on porn Hub or one ofthese sites, um, you know,
and looking at that detachment, becausethere's essentially there's this detachment, right,
there's this you know, um,there's there's an old song, uh,
and I'm going to forget what it'scalled for, this old song by Billy

(02:35:50):
Joel that's essentially about phone sex.It's about like calling someone up in the
middle of the night and um,and I can't remember what it's cool,
but there's it's on one of theplayers that But he's talking about phones.
He's talking about calling someone up inthe middle of the night and wanting something
long distance even though you know youcan't possibly be there, and it's not
necessarily the same as it is inperson. But and these are like basically

(02:36:13):
the lyrics of the song. Butit's like, you know, I need
satisfaction right now or whatever, rightand he's basically It's funny because it's sort
of a very open song. Ifyou listen to the lyrics. I'm sure
most people haven't. It's a veryopen song about like I'm going to call
someone in the middle of night andjerk it while they whatever, right,
right, which is totally fine.But I'm saying, you know, you

(02:36:35):
put that together with Crash and thenwith the idea of like internet forums where
people can discuss or participate in thesevery intimate sexual activities without ever meeting,
without ever touching, without whatever.Um that and add AI and VR and
all the rest of it to it. Now, like with you know,
I'm talking internet technology from twenty yearsago. Now you've got even more possibilities.

(02:36:58):
I'm sure when you look at thatand then you sort of put Crash
into the mike, sure kind ofgo, well, you know, that's
that's what the movie. Yes,the movie. Like I described the movie
before as porn. And what's interestingabout that is so is Ballad and so
is Cronenberg. So I'm not alonein that now that I've done my research.
But um, it could also belooked at as that, you know,

(02:37:22):
those sort of like minded people sexualitybeing um a constructor or or or
whatever we want to choose to makeit, and then us having the technology.
You know, back then it wasobviously car accidents, carts, uh
and whatever in the film. Inreality it was late night dating chat lines,

(02:37:43):
right hot lines or chat lines righton the telephone. Um. And
you know, and I'm sure therewere you know, clubs and bars where
there were message you know, agroup signs up on a pinboard somewhere that
sort of said, you know,interested in this meet you know behind the
dumpsters at eight o'clock or whatever.You know, I'm sure sure this has

(02:38:05):
been going on since the days ofthe Carrier Pigeon. But you know,
the fact that Crash kind of looksat something way before it was you know,
every day or commonplace or whatever.And the fact that Cronaberg talked about
the fact that's human sexuality would onlygrow and change and evolve, and they

(02:38:28):
were trying back then to think ofthe most extreme version of that, right,
Um, So rather than just youknow, oh furies or whatever,
or you know, I get turnedon by dressing up as an animal that's
relatively tame compared to car accidents orwhatever. But it comes from the same
kind of place and and and thefact that they kind of put that together

(02:38:50):
and heralded sort of the dawn ofhuman sexuality or the remaking of human sexuality.
The movie does do that, Likethe movie does do that. That
is in the film if you wantto see it. So, um,
not that I've done a one ideaon the film, because I still wouldn't
put it in tomorrow and go,oh, what a marvelous movie, But

(02:39:11):
um, there's stuff in there,do you know what I mean? There's
like a lot in there if youchoose to And it's not pretend to strokey
beard. Oh I'm hypothesizing. It'sit's in there, and it was intentionally
in there, do you know whatI mean? Yeah, I mean you're
right. I mean there's almost likethe film itself. It's almost like a
twisted, one hundred minute version ofeverything you wanted to do about sex,

(02:39:35):
but we're afraid to ask Vignette rightright, Instead of it like and and
right, you could see like Wilder, yeah right right, And so you
know, instead of being Gene Wilderin a goofy role, we've got sleazy
spe you know, we've got Spaderdoing it in this kind of more serious
version, but still like the sameidea and right, it's the other thing
too, I think is that youknow, with with like you talked about

(02:39:56):
with human sexualit. It's funny inmy novel Chat and Accounting that the main
character, your Chad, meets thiswoman who might not be the brightest bulb,
and she makes a comment about dolphinsbecause she has she has the dolphin
tramp stamp and or lower back,and he brings up a thing about you
know, oh, you got todolphin. She's like, yeah, did
you know they're the only animals whohave sex for pleasure? And he thinks
it's like a come on, right, and he's like, oh, you

(02:40:16):
know, well yes, between themand us, of course, right,
and she goes, no, no, you know, humans aren't animals,
you know, which that was aconversation that actually happened to me in real
life. But but beyond that,right, beyond the fact that, yes,
you know, dolphins have sex forpleasure as well, but humans are
the only ones that can like kindof have these kinds of kinks, right,
Like you know, I mean,I guess, yeah, you know,
your dog or your cat can justhump something some random piece of furniture

(02:40:39):
or something, right, But butfor the most part, you know,
he would have these kikes and thecar is the most fascinating one, right,
because it's I heard Keith Oberman saywhen they were talking about driving cars
when you used to have his oldshow Countdown. He was talking to somebody
about, you know, self drivingcars, and he said, he's saying
to the person, it is thebug in the system. The fact that
cars were invented before computers, right, and the fact that like, right,

(02:41:01):
we if we'd invented computers first,then we'd have our self driving cars
and nobody would get into these caraccidents. But it's just like humans to
invent this thing that's like that takesover our entire world, right, I
mean cars are every I mean obviously, yes I don't drive, but it's
like I still interact with cars ona daily basis when I go out and
you know, cars are driving around. Then it would be like, just
like humans to invent this thing that'svery deadly. It's this big, massive

(02:41:22):
machine. It has all kinds oftechnology and stuff inside of it. You
know, so many people are tiedto it. I mean, I my
wife and I watched Madmen on freev We get commercials. I would say
probably fifty to seventy five percent ofthe commercials are car related in some way,
whether it's the actual car. Everyday is an excuse for another car
sale, right exactly. Memorial Dayevents, yeah, presidents events, fourth

(02:41:46):
car events, yeah, right,everything has to do with car. So
of course that doesn't apply to us. But it's such a major piece of
one's life and couldn't exist right inthe way that it does without cause.
I mean, America is the countryyou know, built on the back of
cars to some extent, like onceFord invented the motor car whatever, like

(02:42:07):
all bets were off for the restof the world in terms of and that
doesn't mean obviously, like you know, there's Japanese cars and Chinese cars and
even European cars and whatever that peoplelike and purchase and as shipped around the
world now and whatever. But ingeneral, uh, you know, the
invention of the motor car made thisvast land mass a lot more traversable.
Unlike other countries like Japan, forexample, America has never moved on the

(02:42:31):
idea of super fast trains or otherenvironmentally friendlier forms of travel. You know,
planes and cars remain, you know, the big gas gustling thing remains
the way to traverse America. Andyou know, there's there's some interesting things
there, like, for example,the self driving car. I as as

(02:42:52):
as someone who recently learned drives,it's interesting way. So I didn't drive
for years and years and years,right. I was always the pass or
public transportation, And since moving outto Connecticut, I've learned to drive.
And the thing is, I absolutelyadore driving, like absolutely love driving,
and the idea of a self drivingcar is to me, the complete antithesis

(02:43:18):
of why a car exists. Thewhole point of a car to exist is
to be behind the wheel. That'sthe whole point, and it is it
is intrinsically linked to the danger involved. Not that I purposely drive dangerously,
I'm not saying that, Like Iconsider myself to be a safe and controlled

(02:43:41):
driver, but even a safe,control and controlled driver faces danger every time
they go out on the road.Whether it's I'm in the countryside right adea
could or a turkey or any numberof animals could leap out in front of
me and have done thankfully causing anyaccidents, but could leap out in front
of me at any time. Ilive on a long windy road that's forty

(02:44:05):
miles an hour that most people drivesixty miles an hour because there's nowhere for
cops to park, so people driveit at higher speeds or whatever. There's
always danger right when you g goout into the car. But that's that's
the point, right, There's anargument to say that life is danger,
that living is danger, right,And you know, there are people who
take into extreme and throw themselves outof planes and bungee jump and you know,

(02:44:28):
cross incredibly treacherous ravines on like ricketybridges for fun or whatever, right
harnessed in, but still they doit. And there's any number of videos
online or TikTok or whatever showing peopleup the Khalifa Tower or whatever it is
in Dubai, like doing the tomCruise thing and leaping around on the top
of the tall buildings or park orjumping from building to better whatever it is.

(02:44:52):
Right, life is danger, right, That's that's like two live is
to experience some level of danger,and so um to remove that to say
we've made a completely you know,safe car that essentially has like a techno
bubble around it, meaning nothing cancome within a foot without kind of the

(02:45:13):
car either stopping or attracting or whateverit does. Right, these sensors,
there's kind of bubbly sensor around it, right, that drives itself and all
you have to do is sit init. I'd be like, but that
to me is the death of life. That is the complete antithesis of the
whole point. Like most people whodrive, who love driving, who love
cars, they don't even the newcars they don't want. They want some

(02:45:37):
old beater because the more like beatup and old and cool and rusty and
whatever, the better, Like themore fun it is to drive, because
the more danger there it like anyminute now the wheel could roll off and
away we go, you know whatI mean. Like, there's there's intrinsically
part of that in the in theprocess of driving. So and it's it's

(02:45:58):
the same with even with art.If you want to make this link like
the you know, part of makinga movie like crash, right is Yeah,
that's the psychological and the philosophical andthe meditative and all that kind of
stuff. There's all the cerebral right, the brain aspect of it. Right,
I want to say this, Iwant to explore that, I want

(02:46:20):
to do that, right, Butthere's also the schoolboy danger of you know,
I want to I want to makea movie with a bunch of pubic
hair in it and see if Ican get it out into the public sphere,
right, because there's a little bitof fun in that. And you're
not going to tell me that DavidCronenberg, who we know notoriously has like
a sense of humor and a weirdlook at life, or or certainly not

(02:46:43):
a weird look at life, adecent look at life, but a weird
way to portray that that he's nota little bit when he's writing this be
like oh wait till they see this, you know what I mean? Like
this is and there's danger in that, right, there's danger in word,
says danger in in in video andin performance. Right, Otherwise we wouldn't

(02:47:05):
be drawn to it, right,we wouldn't be. And the more,
um, the more bland films become, the less they satisfy, right,
the less they engage, the lesswe come out of the cinema feeling that
the world has been changed. Soeven speaks to that uh danger or frizon
or whatever of life, right right, Well, well though, I think

(02:47:28):
you know, getting back to sortthat that idea of the Car and violence
right, or the car in dangerand the Car in sex right, the
Car and sexual Um. I rememberwhen I was in graduate school, I
read this novel or we had toread this book called Armies of the Night
um that that Norman Mailer wrote andhe won the Pulture Prize for it.
Essentially the book was he goes toa Vietnam War protest and he says,

(02:47:50):
um, you know, I hegoes there. Essentially he's going there symbolically
to get arrested so it can beon the news that you know, Norman
Mailer was arrested protesting the war.And what ends up happening is he ends
up going to like this uh thislike holding cell thing that they had like
in like northern Virginia where they werestuffing everybody, like he met like Gnome
chompskin stuff there. He ended uphaving the cancel's plans for the weekends.

(02:48:11):
He was held over for the weekend, which he wasn't expecting. But anyway,
one of the things he mentions inthat novel, because he's talking about
the kids that are there, andthese kids would have been about David Cronenberg's
age, but he talks about thefact that when he was a kid growing
up in Brooklyn, that nobody hadcars, and so to have sex with
a girl, it was really difficultbecause you had to find a place where

(02:48:33):
the two of you could go thatyou wouldn't get caught, right, And
of course, you know him beingborn in the twenties, you know,
growing up in the thirties, itwould have been a big deal, right
if you'd been caught having sex whenyou're a teenager. But that this next
generation that were born in the fortiesmid forties, you know, like Cronenberg
born in forty three. And Idon't know how affluent Cronenberg would have been,
but he probably would have been affluentenough based on you know, his
you know, his father being anewspaperman and all that, that he would

(02:48:56):
have had a car. He wouldhave had his own car, or he
would have had a are you knowthat he was using for his dads or
whatever that he could take a dateon and you can just park that car
wherever and have sex with a womanthere, and there was no fear of
getting caught, right because you youyou you wouldn't have to try to find
someplace that you could get away withhaving sex. You could just park wherever
you wanted to and have sex,and it was like in away, it

(02:49:16):
took the danger out of it,and in his mind it kind of made
it too easy, right, thatthese kids had it too easy, that
even with sex, they were justhaving sex all over the place. But
I think for someone like a Cronenberg, for people growing up in that age,
it intermingled sex in cars and automobilesin a way that I think Cronenberg
kind of takes it to this otherlevel with um, you know, with
with with crash, where it's like, yeah, you know, people having

(02:49:39):
sex and cars, right, Imean we see Heather, you know,
we see a Holly Hunter in Spader, you know, have sex in the
in the parking lot there, inthe in the in the airport. You
know. Um kind of a commonthing, right, Sex and cars is
just a very common thing here inAmerica. And he's like, but what
about the car accident itself? Right? Like, like you talk about the
danger right normal normally the dangers isgetting caught, right having like the cop
you know, rattle on the windowwith his mag light and saying, you

(02:50:01):
know, what are your kids doinghere? Get out of here? You
know whatever? Um, But no, this is like what about the you
know, people being turned on witha car, accims having a sexualized feeling
that they're already you're already associate carsin sex in such a way in in
in in America. That yeah,taking it that next level. But I
think you're right too, right thatlike um, everywhere somewhere to have you

(02:50:22):
know, the moment we invented anew thing, right, it was family
have sex with it or in it, right, right, But the car
almost like the car was like almostlike you know, because you know you
think about right, like you can'tjust go stay in a hotel when you're
a teenager because one like now,you know you wouldn't be able to do
it anyway because you you have tobe like in your I don't know,
twenty one, twenty five whatever torent a hotel room. But then also

(02:50:45):
right, you know this idea oflike, oh, you've got to be
married back then to have a hotelright where it's like a car is like
this like mini hotel that you cantake wherever you want. And and and
of course you know those cars backthen right there, those big long you
know, bench seats and everything whereyou could stretch out and everything on um,
But to park was is literally athing like we're going to go somewhere

(02:51:05):
and park. And what was evenweirder back then, if movies and books
are to be believed, that abunch of people went and parked all together
right in a row like a lover'soverlook or something where they were all parked
in a row, all essentially tryingto do the same thing the drive in,
the same thing people went to themovies at the drive in because the

(02:51:26):
car was somewhere where you could havesex, you know what I mean?
Yeah, I mean look at likeanything like planes, right, the Mile
High Club, right, look uppeople having sex in libraries, right,
people people having sex at in churchesright. It's it's you know, we
we create a space, right that'soften for like either a practical thing like

(02:51:52):
travel or a solemn thing like learningor reading or you know, funeral rolls
or prayer or whatever, and willeither find a way to have sex in
it or will fetishize having sex init. And you know, one cinema
came along will then film those things, right, So you know, and

(02:52:15):
what's funny is, um, thereare you know, even outside of a
film like Crash which is specifically aboutsex. There are even in things that
are meant to just be teen comedies. Um, there are sex scenes in
scenarios that you know would normally onlybe seen in porn or what I mean.
There's a whole thing in Eurotrip wherethey fucking the Vatican in a confessional,

(02:52:41):
right, And you're like, willI mean if that isn't a like
a pornographic idea, I don't knowwhat it like. It's not in there
because it's funny. It's in therebecause it's shocking, because it's titillating,
because it's you know, taboo andwhatever, and that that often is in
like often comedies, especial teen comediesor teen ROMs or sex rombs or whatever

(02:53:03):
remove humor for the sake of likeshock value. Right, But it's still
the same thing, you know,whether it's shocking in a serious way of
shocking in a comedic way. Um. You know, human beings will find
a way to fuck on it,in it, with it, around it,
whatever. It just you know,we're you know, uh, monkeys
with guns flinging our own poop.Right, So it just that's what it

(02:53:26):
is. But the car what's interestingwithout the car though, it's the cars
more liberating than it is dangerous whenit comes to sex, right, because
like a lot of the places thatyou name, they are places you really
shouldn't be having sex, Like there'rea listed places, you know, the
library, all that. But thecar created a safe space that actually made
it so that sex became for teenagersat that time, for someone Cronenberg's age,
who's like you know, you know, in his teens in the late

(02:53:48):
fifties, early sixties, it suddenlybecomes an easier way to have sex.
Like there's no sneaking around that's neededit. We're going on a date,
we need to be back by thistime. We're going to park the car
over here. Whereas, like toMailer's point, all those other places that
you mentioned, you know, wherelike the library, you know, trying
to find a room in the house, you know, seeing if parents are
going to be working all day,things like that, there was that danger

(02:54:09):
of being caught. And it's almostlike sex becomes i want to say common
place. But you know, weget the sexual revolution, right that kind
of comes after this. It's almostlike the car fuels the sexual revolution because
it's almost like when you take thedanger out of it and people are just
having sex. They're almost like,why was this so bad? Right?
There's nothing bad about this, right, but interest the Cronenbergs, he takes
it kind of this next level whereit's like, how do you make it

(02:54:31):
bad again? Okay, let's haveit be that the car crashes turn people
on. And there's that because becausethe car crash is, right, they
don't just affect the people involved.You know, Elia's Kotei is is creating
like these three and four car pileopsjust to get his rocks off, and
those are a lot of people.It's you know, like you know,
people that are just going about theirbusiness, who open to have a nice
day, who suddenly now have todeal with insurance, have to deal with

(02:54:52):
hot hot medical bills and all thisstuff because Elia's Kotei was horny. And
it is interesting actually that you bringup like insurance and uncle bills, because
the movie doesn't go into like thebureaucracy of car crash right right, right,
be sexy. Right. If likeSpader was in the hospital being fondled

(02:55:13):
by Elias Cotius and then someone cameover and went by the way, mister
Spader, that'll be ten thousand dollars. You know, it's not with a
clipboard or something that would be sexy, right, or you know so and
so's insurance company has been chasing medown for weeks that would be exciting.
There's sort of an art to itas far as Vaughan is concerned. You

(02:55:33):
know, he's actually both excited anddisappointed to find out that his stunt man
did the Jane Mansfield crash without him. Right, on one hand, he's
like, oh, no, youwent ahead and did it without me.
But on the other hand, he'slike, right, but look at the
dog and look at the head andlook at the you know, excited by
it, um, which is,you know, fine, But that's sort
of that's sort of trying to pullart into it. If you're just talking

(02:55:58):
about sort of the violence and thesex thing, it's it's and I don't
I can't. I can't know exactlywhere it comes from. I can honestly
say I understand it. I'm notsomebody who watches crash and goes, well,
I don't understand it. None ofthese people are realistic. Blah blah
blah blah blah. I'm like,no, no, no, I like,

(02:56:18):
I totally understand the idea behind themetaphor of like the cars or even
the reality of the car acts.It's causing people to get horning. It's
as much to do with the taboonature of it as it is to do
with real life. There's a reasonwhy I would never do it, but
I understand why someone wants to bechoked out while they're having a sexual experience.

(02:56:39):
It's not I would never It's notmy particular kink, and I'm not
shaming anyone who's it is, butI understand it because it's like, but
I also think there's something and Ithink this is also representing the film.
I also think there's something slightly sadabout it, right, because because and
I don't mean that is it soundslike I'm being negative of how you want

(02:57:00):
to live. I'm not judging anyone. I'm just saying, you know,
on one end of the sexual spectrum, right, you have two people who
are married, two people who arevery in love on like a big four
poster bed with billowy sheets, andyou know, bluebirds chirping on the window
sill while they have slow, butbeautiful and sensual missionary position sex. Right.

(02:57:22):
And then on the other hand,you have spader, grubbly fucking a
leg, wound in a junk,right, or whatever it is. I
mean, I don't know, I'mjust saying, right, those are the
two Those are two things. Andlike everything with human nature, the truth
is that a sort of healthy sexualappetite, a healthy sexual interaction, would

(02:57:43):
be somewhere in the middle. Right. It would have a little a little
excitement, a little danger, littlefrizon, little experimentation, But it would
also have all the love connection,sentimentality, romance, you know, of
the other end of the spectrum.Right, it would would have the safety
of I love you, I'm notgoing to hurt you. You know,

(02:58:05):
this is us in unison, youknow, exploring ourselves or whatever. But
it would also have like some dangeror some excitement or something that was a
bit taboo about it or whatever.So the truth always lies somewhere in the
middle. But we tend to makeart a conversation about the extremes, right,
Yeah, And I think one thing'sinteresting, you know. We think
of like the success of like thewhole you know whatever, fifty shades of

(02:58:28):
grade forty sho. I don't rememberwhat number fifty fifty ago, Okay,
I was getting wrong. One.But you know that kind of like by
the way, I've never read thebook or seeing the movies. I just
know that it's fifty that's it's right. Yeah, I haven't either. I've
never done either. And um,but it's funny because my my kind of
the reason now what happened because Idon't like corporate approved sexual sexual activity like
i' because you know, like atleast when Veehoven made basic instinct, you

(02:58:56):
know, there was still a littledanger to that, right it was it
wasn't the The thing I've never understoodabout the Twilight's fifty Shades of Gray.
There was one on there was amovie on Netflix that went viral because it
had sex scenes in it that everyonewas watching. That was like a terrible
movie, but every you know,it shot up the charts on Netflix because
everyone was watching it. The stuffI don't understand about that is and there

(02:59:18):
so called like Hollywood sanctioned sex scenes, is you could go onto the Internet
and type, you know, manfucking a horse while woman you know,
paints a picture of Bob Russell orsomething, and you can find it right,
it'll show up. So I don'tunderstand in a world where you know,
sex, any type of sex,whether it's you know, softcore and

(02:59:39):
romantic right through to the most extremehardcore. I don't understand why a movie
that is pure shiny Hollywood corporate titillationwith no true understanding of S and M.
I don't believe that anyone involved inFifty Shades of Gray has any broad
understanding of D at all, asas an actual fetish or king. I

(03:00:03):
think they just do it based onlike power structure and whatever, and I
think it's probably incredibly infantile and probablyeven borderline misogynistic, although I'm making a
judgment against it having not seen it, but I don't The thing I don't
understand is the popularity of those things, because to my way of thinking is,
well, if you're genuinely interested inBDSAM or you think it turns you

(03:00:24):
on or whatever, and maybe you'veexperimented a little with it in your own
life, there are plenty of placesyou can go completely safely, both in
public clubs and you know, groupsand other things, or on the internet
if you want to remain anonymous,where you can experience what it actually is,
rather than watching Fifty Shades of Grayand having you know, a couple

(03:00:45):
of actors who buy their own admissionwere not that into it performing it for
you, I just don't you know. That to me baffles me. But
that's because I don't necessarily subscribe tothe world that everyone else is living in.
But anyway, sorry, you werein the middle of well, no,
because I think that's like safe dangeroussexuality, right. I mean you

(03:01:05):
think about the nineties, it wasjust filled with these like these these erotic
thrillers that had like this sort ofagain, this kind of safe but dangerous
S and M kind of thing.I mean S and M. I mean
that kind of thing was. Imean, obviously no Marquis side, but
I mean I think like all thisHuxley novel after many a Summer here in
the States, it's after many asummer Dies of Swan. But there's this
guy who's this archivist, um,you know, from England, who's like

(03:01:28):
in in California, who's like lookingat these old books and and of course
he's like drawn to the ones thathave SENDM and I mean he's even talking
about how like art back then andlike you know, like sculptures of there's
always women in chains and stuff likethat. So it's sort of like this
thing that's been around for a while, and we've all had a long time
to sort of get comfortable enough withit that we feel like we're like I

(03:01:48):
think the mainstream can feel like they'rekinky if they watch a fifty Shades of
Gray when they're really not. AndCronenberg, it's like, I think an
S and M thing would be toosafe for him, right, It's like,
but also to and have that technologyor that that modern um modern machine
elephant element that he really needs,and you know, sort of like this
like twisted metal commingled with the sexualpart of it, and it's like,

(03:02:13):
yeah, it's like this is thisis when you know, this is the
thing that kind of makes the peoplewho who like fifty Shades a great blush
and just get disgusted and be likeI don't want anything to do with it.
But it is kind of fascinating howlike it's almost like right, like
you we were talking about earlier thatlike as humans, right, human sexualize
everything, that there's a fetish foreverything, right kind of thing, and
and this is the one that's probablythat would be the scariest for people.

(03:02:35):
And then like Cronenberg, he kindof take it with the with the cast
and crew and everybody involved. Theytake it up a level by the fact
that they're just getting into car accidentsand having sex all the time, which
again that's not what happens. Again, I don't know, fifty changes are
great either side shouldn't really comment,you like, but it is an interesting
thing where it's like, um,I mean, like the novel I just
came out with most recently, themain character was writing romance novels under a

(03:02:56):
pen name around the time that fiftyShades is big, and his publisher is
pushing him to do fifty Shades kindof like like stuff in his in his
books, and so he's kind ofwas just like coming up with things just
kind of you know, slapping ittogether kind of deal. But it's the
kind of thing that you could justslap together, Like I don't think you
can slap together Crash, Like Idon't think you could. Like you couldn't

(03:03:16):
just go into this. You couldn'tgo into a publishing house and say,
all right, romance novelists, Ineed I need more Crash right, Like
you're right, And if if ifCrash succeeds, it's an interesting point.
If Crash succeeds a tool, right, is that when you watch it,
or when you engage it, whenyou read it, or when you listen
to Ballot or Cronenberg talk about it. Um, it's it's not that someone

(03:03:39):
sat down and went, oh,I know, sex with a leg wound,
all right, you know whatever itis, right or um, sex
in a busy airport, copping aparking lot or whatever, right, um,
you know or whatever. I mean, all the scenes in the movie,
like having sex with your camera operatoror whatever. Like, it's not

(03:04:01):
that someone just sat down and waslike, oh, I'm going to put
together a bunch of sex scenes.There is there is a definite um purpose
behind all of it, and there'sa definitely exploration that's happening throughout it.
Um, you know that's what that'swhat makes it you know interesting, beyond
the you know, but beyond justthe nudity or whatever, beyond just the

(03:04:24):
sexual activity in the film. Sothat's definitely a line to walk that.
Like you say, you couldn't justknock one of these off in a weekend
and go, well, I've thoughtof ten more outrageous sex scenes. Um,
you know, let's just string thosetogether. And while there's another movie,
right, Frank Gosling when he dida Blue Valentine. Um, uh,

(03:04:45):
you know, he that that moviethey had They had a lot of
trouble getting that movie released because ofthe amount of sex scenes, you know,
in that film. And he's like, what, there's no violence in
this movie really at all, youknow. I mean, there's some some
arguments that they have, but it'sreally just about two people that are in
love having sex and having sex scenesand then like their their marriage is falling
apart and it maybe shouldn't have evenbeen together to be, you know,

(03:05:07):
begin with, and all these things. And he's like, sex is just
a part of a marriage that's importantto have. And he's like, why
is this movie getting you know,right, getting killed? Like, I
mean, I think I think theywanted to make that one NC seventeen.
I can't reme if they had toedit it to get it to R or
something, but it's just it's justsex. And I think it's like one
of those things where you had youhad an actor and an actress who were
perfectly fine and and wanting to uhto do the scenes that they were doing

(03:05:30):
right. Michelle Williams is the costar in that one. And they were
perfectly fine doing the scenes that theywere doing. They wanted to do it.
And he's like, and I thinkit's I think it's where the whole
like Ryan Gosling Feminist ally meme startedwith kind of the way he was talking
about this movie. But I thinkit's to that point that it's like with
so many bad you know, uh, problem and not even just problematic but

(03:05:52):
downright like abusive and and and uh, you know, just horrible things that
were happening when you have these sortof more positive elements that because the movie
itself is too sad and it's justone of those things. I guess it's
just that, you know, oneof those things too, where worse you
know, people getting shot is betterthan than than sex. But I think
it comes from repression. I mean, what we're talking about with all this

(03:06:13):
stuff and people's reaction to things andwhy it makes their sense and the fifty
even the fifty Shades of Great Conversation, it comes down to repression. And
there's nothing more dangerous than than repression. But most most people are not uh
you know, most people are notout right. So and what I mean

(03:06:33):
by that is, yes, Iknow out is reserved predominantly for people kind
of coming out to do with theirsexuality or the LGBTQ community. But actually
it's it's about being comfortable in yourown skin. It's about being open with
and it's about going through life beingopen with who you are and what you
want out of life. Right,And most people don't at all in any

(03:06:56):
way. Right. Most people donot want to, uh. They either
don't want to rock the boat,or they don't want to be judged,
or they don't want someone calling thema pervert or whatever it is. Right.
So a lot of this stuff eithereither builds up right and and and
comes out as violence, predatory behavior, right whatever it is, right,

(03:07:18):
m or it goes on, butit goes on like behind closed doors and
as sort of made sinister or fetishizedor you know, hidden away or whatever.
And whenever being confronted with people whoare just comfortable either talking about this
stuff, acting this stuff out,or watching this stuff, that's often seen

(03:07:43):
as this threat. It's often seenas this abandonment of some kind of like
social morality because I think there isthis weird thing that if someone when you
know well, by by the way, I like being tied up right.
I like being dominated a little likeif people live that way, that suddenly
everyone would be fucking in the streets, right. That somehow human nature is

(03:08:07):
not able to live in a worldwhere both things are true, where you
can be openly b DSM but youcan still have a nine to five,
you know, go for dinner withthe in laws and not and not be
constantly talking about it. I thinkpeople think that if you want to be
a furry or into b DSM orinto fronting or whatever it is, you

(03:08:28):
know, a purveyor of fretage,if you if you know that, suddenly
that would open the floodgates and everythingwould be Solomon Gamara and listen. They
might not be wrong. Human beingsare not good at walking that middle line
at all. In fact, humannature finds it very difficult. I think

(03:08:50):
if if we could walk that middleline, everyone would be very happy and
everyone would be having like good nuancedexistences where you didn't have to be liberal
or didn't have to be republican.You could have a nice middle ground.
You wouldn't have to be an atheistor be you know, a religious fundamentalist.
You could walk like a nice middleground. You know, you wouldn't

(03:09:11):
have to be you know, beatingpeople into submission and assaulting them sexually,
or you wouldn't have to be like, you know, an angel that never
does anything other than it's behind closeddoors with you know, billowy curtains.
Like you could walk a nice fineline between those two things. But human
beings don't like to live in thatand and and so that's what, Yeah,

(03:09:35):
that's where all this behavior comes from. Is is this deep rooted repression
that people like to like blame thePuritans for and they like to blame the
British form like that. But repressionexists everywhere. Even in the most so
called open and exposed societies, there'sthere's repressions about it. Like you find
very sexually open societies could often bevery repressed about violence or or whatever.

(03:09:58):
And and countries like America, whichare very open about violence, are very
repressed sexually. And you know,that's just a very obvious example, but
you know, there are there areothers are yeah, well, you know,
it's it's an interesting point because itis there is you know, And
now the term of course, everythinghas a term nowadays, which I guess
that's always been the case because Ialways remember um boy George being interviewed about
androgeny, and he's like, androgenThis is a trendy word, and I

(03:10:20):
hates it, you know, AndI always always remember that line, and
so but it's a great boy Georgeimpression. And if he was still around
as as prevalently as he was inthe eighties, you would have a job
being able to imitate him on onTV America's Got Talent or something. But

(03:10:41):
yeah, but I do a boyGeorge impression and George and it's a trendy
word, and I hate it.Yeah, I can't think of anything else
that I could say in that voice, you know, like, yeah,
but there's that trendy term of kingshaming, right, this whole thing.
And it's interesting in in Chad andAccounting, the main character Chad has a
date with a woman that you know, it starts to turn amorous and it

(03:11:03):
actually you know, she wants himto put on a bear costume and and
she has a thing for guys thatyou were for bears, and she wants
him to wear this bear costume andit gets to be too much for him
and he takes it off and he'slike all massive sweat and everything like that,
And I realized that I had kindof set the scene up where it
was like poor Chad going out withthis crazy woman who likes to you know,

(03:11:24):
you know, sleep with guys dressedin bear costumes, right, And
I had to fully flesh out thescene to give her more depth, to
be like, no, no,there's reasons for what, you know,
you know, she has this fetish, you know, this whole thing about
her being married dating a guy who'sa furry who like went so big into
furies where he moves out to acommune in Arizona where everybody's dressed this furies
all day long and she couldn't bearto be with it. But you know
whatever. But it was like thatthing where I think for so long,

(03:11:48):
right, it's always been when whenwhen these kinds of things are depicted in
mainstream media, it is in away that's like a depraving. I mean,
I didn't know what a ball gagwas until I saw pulp fiction,
right, and then suddenly like everythinghad them after that because pulp fiction was
so big, and it was likeeverything was in pulp fiction was everywhere after
that. But that you know,it's not seen in any kind of way
that's like like right, like thatit's it's it's seen in a way that's

(03:12:11):
crazy, right. I mean,these these guys that have captured ving Rheims
and in Bruce Willis, there's arenot good people, right, there's psychos
that are you know, they've beendoing whatever this thing is that they've been
doing for years and um, youknow, fortunately our heroes escape, right,
But it's not depicted in a waythat's like, oh yeah, you
know like like these things you know, like you said, like that there
are people that can just do thesethings. You know that there can be

(03:12:31):
a relationship between a man and awoman that there isn't you know, one
of them's into this, one ofthem is also into it from a different
stand you know, like that guy. Like, it's never really depicted in
that way. I mean, Iguess HBO started to do a good job
of it in the in the ninetieswith their shows about that kind of thing,
but even then it's still seen aslike this edge culture kind of right.
No. I mean I think that'sa good point. It's that,

(03:12:52):
you know, and I can thinkof other examples, as a movie called
Personal Services about Madam and the UKwho used to service a lot of sort
of politicians and wealthy, powerful peoplewho liked to be infantilized, right and
dressed up these babies or whatever.And we've seen there's documentaries about sort of
that infant infantilism king as well andstuff like that. And you know prostitutes

(03:13:18):
who you know can lactate and areused as as you know, mother substitutes
or whatever. There's all sorts ofthat kind of thing. And what's like,
like anything, right, Like mostof our representation of these things in
popular culture, right, even ifit's you know, the real sex documentaries
or it's um, you know,an expose on something, or it's an

(03:13:39):
Internet thing, or even if it'sporn, or even if it's Crash or
whatever is, it's always represented asthese people, aren't you, right?
And actually if anything the Crash possiblydoes wrong is that it all of these
none of these characters are everyday people, right, right. They don't even

(03:14:01):
behave talk, act whatever like everydaypeople. And that's possibly to its detriment
because I've I've never subscribed to theidea of the other, right or even
and I understand you know, whenyou get to to to math, right,
that certain groups are a minority ofother groups. Right. I understand

(03:14:26):
that it just in terms of sheernumbers. Right. You can say this
type of person, you know,gay people or whatever, twelve, ten
percent whatever of the population or whateverit is. Right, But if you
start to divide up the population byeverything that a person can be, right,
you'll start to realize that everyone ispart of a ten percent of something.

(03:14:48):
Right. If you're going to startcompartmentalizing human beings down into percentages of
groups so that they can be Idon't know, organized dealt with legalized whatever.
I don't know you know all thereasons for doing it, or they
can just be seen, right,A lot of it it's just I just
want to be seen, right,I just want to be part of a

(03:15:09):
society. But the flip happens,Right, the more you try and put
something into society, the more peoplesee it as an external force trying to
get in when it's not. It'sit's all part of humanity, all of
it. Everything on the spectrum fromthe most hard right leaning I'm straight,
I'm white leaning, the fuck alone, fucking gun toting truck rub whatever,

(03:15:33):
right, who, by the way, has so many insecurities and so many
sexual oppressions. I don't even knowwhere to begin. The Internet, of
course, right, of course,right right through to the most like I,
you know, I identify as awisp of air, right, and
I don't have any you know,all the way through to the other end

(03:15:54):
where I, you know, Iidentify as a cotton bud or something right,
right, and everything in between.It's at the end of the day,
the one thing we have to wrestlewith is it's all part of the
human animal, all of it,every single bit of it, and some
of us have more of it thanothers. Right, But to define us
by one or two things, Butto define us by who we love,

(03:16:15):
to define us by the color ofour skin, to define us by the
length of our head, to defineus by having boobs or not whatever.
It's all irrelevant if it's relevant toyou as an individual, and as society
should be built up where you,as an individual, can do whatever you
want with your body in whatever space, as long as you're not hurting another

(03:16:37):
human being without their consent first,right, right, society should exist in
that way, and that's where we'retrying to get to. Right. And
evolution is always a bumpy road withpush pull one step forward, two steps
back, all the rest of it, but or two steps forward, one
step back, or where however youwant to say it. But at the

(03:16:58):
end of the day, the presentingCrash in the way where you're just like,
well, that's those people, right, right, those people feel that
way about sex, or those peoplefeel that way about cars, And I'm
like, right, but those peopleare probably relatives of yours, right.
I wanted to bring it back toCrash quickly just before we wrap it up.
Yeah, but there's a great bitin the trivia that was like,

(03:17:18):
apparently there was much discussion right aboutwhat Debra Hunger would be holding onto in
the scene where in the hospital bedshe's meant to be masturbating James Sprader under
the blanket, right, yes,yeah, which is hilarious to me because
I'm just like mimit, like putyour hand under the blanket and move it
up and down, Like why doyou have to be hauling onto anything?

(03:17:41):
Yeah, but apparently there was muchdiscussion about this, right, And this
is why I love like I almostwould love more to have have like a
very like why doesn't Crash have thisvery in depth Fly on the Wall documentary
about the making of it. ButI think that that's far more fascinating and
the one ended up coming out becauseI want to see a long discussion between

(03:18:03):
Debreka, James Spader and and krodaBerg talking about like, well, what
could she possibly be rubbing underneath theblanket right wall. You know, Spader's
thinking, we don't worry, I'lljust get hard, like just just rub
me, you know, like Spader, and not in a predatory way,
in a method acting way. Anyway, I'm not listened. Spader is like,

(03:18:26):
I don't mean to put that intoonto Spader. I just mean to
make a joke anyway. I wonderbecause there's a Criterion version of Crash out
there. I've never I wonder ifthere's a documentary. But he says,
apparently they ended up with a verylifelike dildo that James Spader wanted to wear,
which he did. So I lovethe idea of Spader going, oh,

(03:18:46):
look, I found this incredible.I happened to have this incredibly life
like dilto just hanging around. Ireally And not only that, but he
really wanted to wear it. Likeagain, it could have been on a
board box and she could have fakedit because like apart from the one wide
shot where all you see is herhand under the blanket after James finishes.

(03:19:09):
Yeah, they're close up is literallyjust a blanket going up and down like
anything could have been under the bed. But the fact that Spader was like,
not only do I have a lifelike dildo, but I'm really excited
about wearing it. I just thinkthat's fantastic. Apologies, we sadly have
to pause for some ads. Maybeif more of you supported us on Patreon,

(03:19:31):
but there it is. So yeah, now interesting one less interesting piece
that I had kind of along thatline, you know again within the trivia,
Remember I mentioned this was number nineand my top ten films in the
nineties according to the IMDb tribute.I think I remember reading this actually that
this is number eight on Scorsese's list, which actually makes sense if you think

(03:19:52):
about the fact that number two onmy list was Good Fellows, and I
don't think Scorsese had any of hisown movies on the list, so that
would actually mean that We Crash wouldgo up with But yeah, but but
yeah, he actually you had iteven higher than me on his top ten
of the nineties, so which Idon't know if that if that's a surprise
or if that makes sense with Scorsese. Um, I feel like scorsesey probably

(03:20:13):
watched this as the you know,artistic human exploration it was intended. I
feel like he's pretty well versed incinematic language and has consumed I mean,
he's consumed as far as I'm away, he's consumed more movies than practically anyone
else on the planet because he watches, you know, world cinema as much
as he watches American cinema, andso I think he probably I think he

(03:20:37):
probably like knew what the film wasgoing for from from the beginning. I
believe. I can't, you know, I can't. I can't imagine.
I mean, I don't. Iknow nothing about Scorsese really, outside of
the fact that he was a hugecoke fiend at one point, I don't
know anything about him. So,you know, he might have said it
was one of the best movies ofthe nineties because he loves watching it every

(03:20:58):
night and jagging off to I haveno idea. Actually, I'd forgotten I'd
read because Roger Ebert had his listof his top ten movies of the nineties,
and he did the list with Scorsese, and I'd forgotten about that that
um, that they did the listtogether, and I think, yeah,
Crash was on there in another moviecalled The Painted Horse, which I hadn't
seen. I've seen sent to aChinese film. I think it's what it

(03:21:20):
was. But I've forgotten about thatthat they did the list together. But
um, I can't remember what hesaid about Crash, but I kind of
remember it being on the list therethat mum, And I was kind of
shocked because in a way, italmost made me feel good about happinking on
my list. I was like,I was like, oh, okay,
oh no, I mean, it'scertainly I don't know that it's certainly not

(03:21:41):
on my Best the Nineties list orwhatever, but it's certainly like a quintessential
movie of the nineties. If peoplewant to rediscover Crash as much as I
don't necessarily want to go back andwatch it again, um, because I
found it a bit boring, youknow, it's it's generated great discussion,
and I think it's a film thatpeople should see and confront and figure out

(03:22:03):
how they feel about it and andso on. So if we can shine
a light on it, so muchthe better. So as we wrap this
episode. The last thing that weneed to do, as we do at
the end of every Sleazy Spader springtime, is he puts something into the Sleazatorium.
Right, So, in his basement, James Spader has a slezatorium that

(03:22:24):
has artifacts from all the films thathe was in. And it's never normally
the normal it's never normally the obviousthing. Right, It's right, it's
it's it's never you know, it'sit's it's never the most sexual thing that
happens in one of his films.It's like a little weird thing. It's
a towel, or it's a hat, or it's a whatever. And you
know, the slizatorium has all sortsof things in it. Considering Crash is

(03:22:46):
such just a rampantly sexual film,it's going to be difficult. But what
what do you think that he tookfrom the set of Crash that every time
he looks at it he just getsa flutter in his groin because it means
something very specifically sleazy to him.Why that's a good question, Um,

(03:23:09):
I mean, when it had beenthe fake dog that was found at the
scene of the accident, Oh,that is a gloriously ducked choice. I
absolutely applaud that. I wasn't eventhinking that that is. Um. Oh,
you've won that round, sir.Yes, it's the it's the stuffed

(03:23:30):
it's stuffed, mangled dog with flexof blood on it. I was going
to say it was the the seatcover that Debrah Kara Unger grabs with a
or um. I don't know whosehand it is actually, but there's a
hand that's covered in seminal fluid orspermatozoa or come to use the parlance of

(03:23:54):
our times, that grabs a seatcover in the seats in the car wash
when Elias is um roughly having sexwith Deborah car Anger in the back see.
And I was thinking that maybe Spaderwould would either have taken the sea
cover or even weird would have takenthe rear view mirror from that car and

(03:24:16):
have that in the sleeves atorium.But I'm sorry, you win with the
dead dog. That's phenomenally dark andI think absolutely wonderful he took. He
took the dead dog and the brathat the dead stunt man was wearing when
he did the accident. That's whathe took. That's definitely what's in the
sleeves atorium. Oh my god,that's phenomenal. That's the darkest answer.

(03:24:39):
Yes, I think. But well, because the one thing that they're very
ambiguous about in the movie is whetheror not like the characters like in the
you know, like obviously the filmdid not kill the real dog, but
like whether they you know, likewhether that was actually a stuffed dog or
in like in the movie that wassupposed to be a dog that was dug

(03:25:00):
right right, that died in theaccident. Like it's you know, it's
it's it's it's kind of there.And I guess, you know, from
the because I was trying to thinkif they are something in the car when
remember when he goes back to hiscar and he finds like his porn collection,
and oh my god, I wantedto yes, what was it a
fistful of beauty? What was it? What was it a fistful of It

(03:25:20):
wasn't beauties. No, I've gotto I've got to find it because it
was when I saw it, I'mlike, that is hilarious. Yeah,
that was the pawn magazine that theywent with, because I'm like, I
get you have to make up apawn maag because you know, you don't
want to pay for Hustler or Playboyor whatever. But in fact that it

(03:25:41):
was such a ridiculously like bad seventiespawnmag It was near the end, right,
no, kind of near the beginning. Because he's Whember, his car
is is crap. He goes tothe impound to pick up his car and
that's where he meets Holly Hunter andthey go back and have sex and he's
going through the wreckage of his car. Are I just want to that's the

(03:26:05):
name of the magazine is A fistfulof bimbos. That is absolutely splendid.
That that's what they came up with. That the magazine that James Spader would
be would be reading would be afistful of bimbos. That is absolutely phenomenal

(03:26:26):
that that. When I saw that, I was like, what are you
talking? It's actually it's it's anovel. It's not even a magazine.
It's a novel. It says,an original novel, A fistful of bimbos.
Oh my god, that is thatis sheer joy. I got to
take a screenshot of that. Umthat's gonna be that's gonna be the episode

(03:26:54):
UM image for this episode. That'sthe perfect screet. Yeah, I do
even think of that. Yeah,it's a fistful of bimbos that is incredible
and and on that bombshell will endthis episode. I wonder if it's a

(03:27:18):
real novel that's you see, thisis the next thing. It's like,
did Coronerberg come up with that?Or right right, I'm now looking it
up. It's the Internet, youcan do that. Yeah, it's all
there for us now. Yeah.Now what's interesting is there's a video,
a nineteen eighty eight video directed byJohn T Bone called A Fistful of Bimbos,

(03:27:43):
which is a porn film. Ithas like famous porn actors in it,
Randy West and Peter North. Um. Yeah, but is it?
Is it a book? I'm gonnaI'm gonna put a novel next to it.
Uh, have a look it is. It's a real a fistful of
Bimbos. It's on Biblio, whichis a kind of like the IONDB for

(03:28:07):
books. It was by an authorcalled Ruby Rhapsody. It's from Toronto,
Ontario, Canada. Interlude Press,nineteen eighty nine, softcover. Um,
it's it's available. It's in verygood condition. It has the usual signs
of wear that one would expect tosee in any paperback book that has been

(03:28:31):
read. Sure, sure it does. Yeah, it's the keywords are explicit
erotic fiction, slees erotica, heterosexualerotica, but fistful of bimbo. Oh
it. Actually, this particular copyis no longer available. Other books by

(03:28:52):
Ruby Rhapsody, who wrote that book, includes After Hours Cheat and Cheating Horny
Housewife. But I like the ideathat a fifthful of Bimbosh and by the
way, Cheating Horny house Housewife cancan fetch up to one hundred dollars on
the rare book scene. Um,there's currently a copy in Gloucester City in

(03:29:18):
New Jersey, so that's kind ofnear me. Here city in New Jersey.
Then go right ahead. It's betweenthe covers Rare Books, Inc.
And they're selling it for one hundreddollars. So oh, of course one
hundred. I mean, I justlove the idea of Spader either either a
being in traffic right and he's justlike while the car is stopped it.
I don't know what Toronto's traffic islike, but he's in trapp or does

(03:29:39):
the idea of him being on thesubway in Toronto just sort of like writing
around reading that, you know,just yeah, but you know, got
gotta go, you know, Imean everybody reads book right when they're on
the subway. I mean, it'snot anymore now. I'm I know,
I'm like one of the rare onesthat reads a book on the subway.
But I mean, me reading thatbook, I guess if it's one hundred
dollars, I couldn't because you know, it's like my backpack, you know,
a rucksack. You know. Youknow that they went to a sex

(03:30:01):
shop in Toronto. Yeah, pickthat up. And we're looking around and
they saw something called a fistful ofbimbos and they were like, that's that's
yeah. Can you imagine going toa sex shop with Spader like that just
in the nineties, Like right now, I don't know how much it would
be fun, but in the nineties, like going walking in with him,
you know, with his sunglasses on, you know, I mean it would

(03:30:22):
be uh, I mean, itwould just be h you know, a
Bachnalian orgy by the time the bythe time you got to the registrate would
be and it would be an unfetteredorgy of filthy novellas and and and I
think the only thing. Although fistfulof bimbos is hilarious, it's it's a

(03:30:43):
little on the nose. I thinkSpader would probably prefer, you know,
something like the Priest and his Mistressor something. You know, I mean,
something that's something that's everyone knows whatit is that you're getting into.
But it's not a fistful of bimbos. It's you know, it's tales of
debauchery behind the cloistered walls of themonastery. You know, that kind of

(03:31:05):
thing. Probably, um, youknow, the the zoo workers who like
to do it in front of ruttinggibbons or something. As as soon as
it's mating time at the zoo,they decide to follow suit and take their
lust to you know, filthy animalheights in front of you know, um,

(03:31:26):
elephants that are being masturbated for ourdivisional insemination. That kind of thing
that would be Spadas. Yeah.I could see Spainer two like finding like
the porn version of like pretty andPink and being angry that he wasn't cast
at himself in it, you know. And I think someone missed a trick
when he was at his height thatthey didn't cast him in the erotic reimagining

(03:31:50):
of one of his like the theyou know, the porn version of mannequin,
you know what I mean, wherehe gets to reprise the sleazy bus
role, whether it's like cover hereonly this time the mannequin you know,
blows him or something, you knowexactly. Yeah, I feel like he
would have been into it. Ifeel like whatever, you know one and

(03:32:11):
that's the joy of Spader and andfinal Spader things that I've found out today
just watching interviews um uh. AndI posted a video on both Twitter and
Facebook, um Spader in an inan interview about two Days in the Valley
with um A, a Texan reporter, an older lady Texan reporter, And
she's uploaded all her videos on YouTube, so often when you look up sort

(03:32:33):
of archival video interviews, her stuffcomes up. In this interview with him
and Charlie's Suran um Uh from twoDays in the Valley, and he's just
sat there loosely against the couch withhis legs like brushing against the ruan um
and and occasionally like pause at herand you know, purse and whatever.

(03:32:54):
Um He he admits that when she'slike, what would you be doing if
you were an actor. He waslike, fireworks. I like fireworks.
Then he goes on to say andhe goes, no, no, like,
I really like fireworks. I'll reallygo anywhere to see a good firework
display. And then he goes,but you know, it's sort of a
family business, and those families reallyhave the monopoly on firework display, so

(03:33:18):
it'd be difficult to break into.And he says it with a completely straight
face, And I'm like, eitherthat is one of the greatest, weirdest
improvs of all time, or he'sgenuinely looked into starting a fireworks business,
only to find the five you know, high families a firework displays have edged
him out because they monopolize, youknow what I mean. He's like,

(03:33:41):
oh, maybe I'll do a fireworkdisplay at the next rap party or whatever,
only to find curses, you know, the Rogers family of Iowa,
who you know have a large fireworkdisplay business, and yet again coming and
stolen this opportunity from me. Andthen they then they ask then they say
that the rad who Thoran who's ignored? She gets asked the question at the

(03:34:03):
beginning and then ignored for the restof the interview, which is very insulting,
but towards the end, the interviewersuggests that Thorn could go into business
with Spader doing Fireworks, which,considering two days in the value, was
her debut movie. I don't thinkshe thought, I'll do this movie and
then I'll go off and enjoy afamily fireworks troop with Spader. So that's

(03:34:26):
glorious that Spader. One. Theother thing I found out is that the
first season of Blacklist, right whenhe was playing in Reddington, apparently they
had to completely re organize and changethe script of one of the episodes in
the first series because when Spader gothired and came on board, he literally

(03:34:46):
went into the writer's room and went, by the way, when my character
isn't working with the FBI, Ithink he would spend a lot of time
hanging out in synagogues. So ifyou could put that in, that would
be great. And that was hisartistic note about Raymond Reddington, who is,
you know, a wanted terrorist andspy and whatever is that when not

(03:35:11):
working on international espionage and terrorism,he would be hanging around a lot in
synagogues. Didn't go into any moredetail than that, but that's so so
hanging around synagogues and fireworks. Andthis is what I mean about Spader.
It's never It's never, um youknow, oh, I own a bus
load of dildos. Like, it'snever anything obvious. Yeah, it's I

(03:35:33):
like fireworks, right, I likeAnd he doesn't go on to say this,
but he probably would like, Ilike how the sky the rockets penetrate
the skies innocence and explode fire flowersacross the school, you know what I
mean, Like he would find away to make fireworks an innocent childhood pastime

(03:35:56):
of watching fireworks. He would finda way to make it incredibly sexual,
you know what I mean, Likethe penetrative rocket shooting into space, ejaculating
light across you know what I mean, Like he would find a way to
just make fireworks just incredibly sexual.And again, hanging around synagogues. Right,

(03:36:16):
he doesn't go into any detail,but there's something there. The idea
of a portly because he's you know, fat, now a portly be hatted,
you know, tiny hipster scarf wearingSpader hanging around synagogues, rubbing his
waistcoated belly and just like licking hispurse lips is just obscene, Like,

(03:36:39):
why is he in a synagogue.Why is he wearing a trilby? Why
is he portly and happily rubbing hisbelly like it's all obscene? Yet none
of it is, none of itcomes straight like it's not. Oh,
I think he would hang around sexshops or hang around strip joints or whatever.
It's he hangs around synagogues, youknow what I mean, dressed obscenely

(03:37:01):
and rubbing his belly like. That'she finds a way, That's what I'm
saying. So that's the essence tosleazy Spader is not uh, you know,
cocks and things. It's it's fireworksand synagogues. Yeah, that's a
great I mean, yeah, it'sso. I mean, just a quick
like with that whole thing with thefireworks thing. Um a friend of mine

(03:37:22):
went to a private school in NewHampshire for a short period and um,
they used to be have the showin New Hampshire called Granite State Challenge where
the high schools would compete in thistrivia thing. And of course at the
beginning they'd asked the kids about themselves, and I guess there was a film
of when um this school was onthe show, they asked them kind of
you know, what what do youlike to do? And their answers were
the first one said, my familydoesn't know this, but I have a

(03:37:43):
secret chicken farm in the backyard.And then the second one said, yeah,
I dabbled in flamethrower repair. Andso it's almost like like Spader,
Like these kids have the Spader energy, and I wonder where it goes,
like because I wonder what happened tothose two kids who did that? Mean
they would have been older, theyprobably would be in there close to fifty
now. Um, But you know, how do you not because what do

(03:38:05):
you do with that energy? Ifyou're not Spader and you've been born in
this life, in this world whereyou're in right, you know, a
celebrity, and you can you cando you can just use your way around
the world. Yeah, and youknow Linen suits right and just say these
things like he's got an outlet forit all. It's like he doesn't have
to keep this to himself, Likehe can just say like, yeah,
synagogues and they and they have toaccept it because it's like have to,

(03:38:26):
right, we need Spader on thisshow. He need we have to.
We have to you know, Idon't humor is the right word. But
right, you know, no,but you've got to think to yourself that,
like, you know, yes,he's testing them. Yes it's probably
a joke, right right, Butthe fact that they are forced to obey
his every whim, no matter howludicrous, is arousing him no end.

(03:38:52):
I mean, he is so turnedon by the fact that he can flounce
his way into a writer's room,say the word hanging around synagogues, and
then flounce out the fact that they'reall, Now, well, what the
fuck do we do with that?Right? Right? How the fuck do
we write that into this you know, forty five minute charming you know,
ABC Night, NBC ninety show,whatever it is, NBC nightly show that

(03:39:16):
families can watch, whatever, Like, how do we figure this shit out?
Right? And he's just gone offto his trailer and he's pleasuring himself
to fist full of bimbos, youknow, because he's like, I like
imagine that he's probably looking at fistfullof bimbos and going, you know,
I demand this to be a propon every set that I'm on, and

(03:39:39):
people probably scratch ahead, well,how do we write that into Boston Legal
or whatever? It's like, Idon't. That's not my job. My
job is to bring you full ofbimbos, and you figure out how to
put it in my show. Myjob is not to explain why Reddington is
in synagogues. My job is totell you that that's exactly where he is.
That's exact by the way. WellI'll be and you won't be on

(03:40:01):
to find anywhere else and you haveto write into the show or I am
taking my politely gut and my trailbe hat elsewhere where they will entertain my
insane whims. It's a fascinating thingwhen you consider who Spader is right that,
Like you think of Jim Belushi,who gets his own sitcom in like

(03:40:22):
the early two thousands, And inthat case it was almost like Blushi like
finding a way to mainstream himself,right that, like he's you know,
the Doe, the Doughey kind oflike I've tried everything I did SML.
I tried to follow in the footstepsto my brother. I tried to do
all of the Stone films. Itried to do a lovable film with a
dog, Like how do I mainstreammyself? I love the idea of Belushi

(03:40:45):
mainstreaming himself exactly because because I thinkI think he needed a regular paycheck,
and here he finally gets a regularpaycheck, whereas like Spader, the fact
that's I'm just looking on his IMDbbio, he had one hundred and one
episodes of Boston Legal and then twohundred and nine of this Bad Blacks show.
So somehow he was able to bendthe TV industry to him, to
his three hundred and ten episodes.Yeah, and the TV became this thing

(03:41:09):
in the two thousands and into youknow now, and I mean this this
show is the black List Show.It sounds like it's still on the air,
like he's still doing this show.Like the fact that TV needed Spader
that much, but they they bentto him. You know. It's it's
not like Blushi where they're like,we need a boomer less offensive, less
scary version of Kevin James, canyou do that for us? Well?
Yeah, but but he was likeBlushi, sitcom was like before Kevin James

(03:41:33):
was a thing, right, itwas before King of Queens. After so
King of Queens it was was takingoff, and I think they wanted to
say for less gen x version ofKing of Queens. And that's where Blush
came in. Yeah, exactly,Jim was that late and I thought,
according to Jim, yeah, Iwas like, yeah, yeah, I'm
pretty sure because I've watched it andI'm like, oh, this is just

(03:41:54):
a like a male Roseanne rip offand it's not even a good one,
like I thought it was nineties.No, no, not because because it
was like one of those things whereyeah, two thousand and one was the
first episode. So King of Queen'shad been around for a little bit,
but it was this idea of havingthese Doughey dads. He's Doughey. You
know Africa Long did According to Jim, didn't it run like eight seasons or
something? Seasons? Yes? Yeah, season means I mean we like like

(03:42:18):
Beshi Belushi couldn't get arrested, buthe got eight seasons, like nobody cared
about Bellushi. Like he tried everything. He tried Schwartzenegger, he tried All
of a Stone, he tried LovableDog, he tried exactly two Corp Movie.
He tried to break every possible likeaudience Group right, and finally found

(03:42:45):
public acceptance with a sitcom that,to my knowledge, is not running anyway.
It's not like you can stream accordingto Jim, but it was just
so popular at its time. Butyou also have to say to yourself,
like Seinfeld has been and gone,Friends has been and gone, like some
of these sitcoms that like redefine thegenre, and America was still so like

(03:43:05):
I don't know, Schlubby Dad's liketrying to find their remote control, Like
is that still a thing we canwrite about? And I'm like, really,
like didn't we do all the SchlubbyDad shows like in the fourteen fifties,
sixties, seventies, eighties, nineties, like really, and we need
Jim Belushi And occasionally Dan Accroid willcameo and they'll sing a blues song and

(03:43:26):
a ba and everyone will just belike that's fine. Like Jim Belushi is
both the Schlubby Dad on his showand the real Jim Belushi that like sings
blues with his fat old Canadian friend. Like what like that was a thing,
Like what? Because the thing waswith King of Queens, right,
So the King of Queens comes out, you know, and like the late

(03:43:46):
nineties, and I mean Kevin Jamesis a little bit older than jen X,
but the show has this very firmlike New York gen X sensibility to
it, and I think there wasthis fear of like, what the middle
of the country doesn't really to KevinJames. How can we do a middle
of the country Kevin James. Andthat's where you know Belushi it's like,
oh, hey, why don't wetry Blushi for this? And it worked

(03:44:09):
right like it works in it forBlushi. It's like he gets a regular
paycheck, which he can't blame himfor that, but you know, and
I don't know to what extent nowlike, but I think that's nowadays,
right, that kind of thing.They wouldn't make a Blushi show out of
it. What they would do isjust be like, let's do you know
mask singer or something like that,like some variety shows over the reality TV
now, which is what he's doing. He's doing Growing Belushi, which is

(03:44:31):
his pop farm reality TV show,and it's it's on Discovery, so I
think it's on Discovery. I thinkis Growing Growing Belushi. Like the fact
that he's not even that but heshowed up in like the reboot of Twin
Peaks, right like, right,listen, I love Blushi like I'm not

(03:44:52):
and everyone's like, oh, youknow what, But right when Max launches
on May twenty fifth, or whenever. Max the growing Blushi better beyond that,
it's a Discovery show and I wantto watch him, like and again,
the few clips that he shows onhis social media is like like fucking
around with his cousin being like,you know, oh, give me back

(03:45:15):
my sweater. No, I won'tgetting back my sweat, right, But
it's a TV show Blushi and hiscousin arguing over a sweater, Like what
what well are we living in?But it's kind of beautiful, it's kind
of wonderful. And when we're donewith Spada, you and I need to
delve into the world of Belushi.Yes, for sure, because it's it's
funny with Belushi. So I wason the Exploiting Helicopter podcast where we talked

(03:45:37):
about Royce. Um. He hadme on to talk about Royce and he
was kind of we were both kindof shocked as we were talking about that.
We're like, hey, we actuallylike Belushi. And I kind of
wanted that whole thing about the sortof the the America's reckoning with the Doey
White TV death that like that,like in the late two thousands, we'd
had enough of it and that's it, and so we kind of put Blushi

(03:45:58):
in that box right when when youlook at his nineties stuff, he's like
doing all kinds of different things,and we're like, man like, he's
very you know, he's he hasa lot of range as an actor.
He can do a lot of things. And we were like, we actually
like Blushi. We didn't realize it, and it kind of came up the
same time that you were doing someof the stuff on YouTube with with the
Canine sequels, and it was likea kind of that same idea. It's
almost like this polygenesis of like rediscoveringBlushi. You know, it's a fascinating

(03:46:22):
thing. Is in the nineties,we took it for granted that Blushi would
do anything, Right, did hebe in a movie with Tupac, He'd
be in an erotic thriller. Hewould do a goofy American version of James
Bond. We're not doing a Blushiseries. That's it. It has to
be done. We're doing a Blushiseries next time you were on the show.
We aren't going to We're gonna donineties Blushi, right, So we're

(03:46:43):
going to do Separate Lives with LindaHamilton we're gonna do traces of Red.
Yeah, yeah, we're gonna douh sadly you've done Royce. So yeah,
we rent years and years and yearsago. We rented Royce years ago
when we were a Blueshi because weloved Real Man and Cane nine and whatever
our friends were. My friends andI were big Blushi fans back in the
nineties, right, And we rentedRoyce and we enjoyed it like it's possible

(03:47:09):
action filmed up. But it wasthe bid on the train at the end,
whether where like Royce is climbing upthe train and the kid leans out
and goes Royce and gives the gameaway, right, that made us go,
fuck this movie. We fucking hateIt's like, fuck everything about this
movie because Royce was about to getthe jump on him, and the only
thing the writers could come up withwas the kid was dumb enough to scream

(03:47:31):
Royce's name at the right of theclimax. Right. So, but I've
always I've never gone back and seenit again ever, ever, ever,
I've never watched it again because Ijust remember saying, fuck this movie because
of the kid, right, notbecause Blueshi a kid, right. I
was in the archive down in Bridgeportbuying some VHS as I normally have,
and I found Royce on VHS,and I'm like, I have to buy

(03:47:54):
Royce on VHS. And what's funnyis is, over the years, I've
collected VHS film of films that,um, I personally feel that they're all
films that I watched or rented inthe eighties or the nineties. Right,
They're all films that I don't considergreat at all. They're not films that

(03:48:15):
I would consider like even Canine orwhatever, or Real Men. But they're
all films that I refuse to letdie like I want to. I want
to know that they have a lifeout there. Does that make any sense?
Oh? Yeah, absolutely? Yeah. So there's a there's a Michael
Winner film called bulls Eye with RogerMoore and Michael Caine, and no matter
which way you slice it, asas as much as you want to like

(03:48:39):
it, it's all like it's justso bad, and you're like, I
don't know how Michael Caine, RogerMoore and Michael Winner could have made such
a bad movie, but it's sobad. But I don't want to let
Bulls Eye die, like I cannever let it die. It needs to
exist somewhere in the world. Theidea that bulls Eye fade into the background.

(03:49:00):
I will not let that happen.There's something about it that, you
know. Three, I'm not goingto call Winner a master of British cinema,
but but you know, Kane andMoore are definitely masters of British cinema.
Right that at some point two mastersof British cinema and a and a
passable British exploitation director got together andmade a movie that was so bad that

(03:49:24):
you have to just like your jawjust has to be on the floor while
you watch it. But there's somethingabout it because I rented it back in
the day, because I was liketwelve when I first saw it or whatever,
and because it had a like innatecharm to me back when I was
a child, right, I needlike, if someone's like, oh,

(03:49:46):
you know, your house is burningdown, what would you run in and
grab right? Outside of my dogsobviously and my wife and everything else,
but whatever, if there's movies,right, what movies do you run in
and grab? Right? And yougo, well, you know, I
suppose I could run in and grabmy special edition and five disc box out
of Dawn of the Dead with allthe blah blah blah. Well, no,
I'll always be able to buy Dawnof the Dead, right, Dawn
of the Dead will always be outin the world. It's it's now a

(03:50:09):
renowned It's not even a cult filmanymore. It's like a renowned, quintessential
film. Right. And yes,it would cost me a lot of money
to rebuy the box set that Ihave that's all shiny and lovely. But
no, I would run in andso save the VHS of Royce. I
would save the VHS of Burt ReynoldsMalone. I would save the VHS of

(03:50:30):
Bulls Eye. I would save youknow what I mean, Like I would
you know, I would save Hamburgerthe motion picture, Right, there were
certain I would save Splits. Youknow, there are certain films that I'm
like, they can't get lost,you know what I mean, Like other
films will never get lost, andwe're thankful for it. But no one's
with the best will in the world. Vinegar syndrome is not like let's put

(03:50:54):
bulls on right, right, Yeah, no one's No one's no boutique shout
factories like we should do a Belushiseries, Like, no one's saying that,
you know, I mean, noone's saving traces of Red but me.
You know what I mean, I'msaving it. And there's there's something
beautiful about that. So, Matt, that teas up the fact that next

(03:51:15):
time you'll be on this podcast,we'll be talking Belushi, and not only
that, but the rich vein ofbizarre genre hopping nineties Belushi. Yeah,
I can't wait. Yea fantastic people. People are gonna be like. But
the fact of these movies and wheredid they find? That's that's what this
is all about, Matt. Youknow what I mean, because I you

(03:51:39):
know, there were all there area lot of people. What I've tried
to resist with this podcast is uhoh, he likes b movies and exploitation
films. So that's what we're goingto cover. I do like the movies
and exploitation films. I do likehorror, I do like genre films,
I like action, I like whatever. And we've certainly covered our fair share
of those films, right. Butno other podcast that I know about is

(03:52:03):
talking about Donald Pleasance, James Spader, Jim Blusheet like those, you know
what I mean, no one elseis talking about those, I feel compelled
to keep them alive. So that'swhat I'm doing, and that's that's what
we'll continue to do here on theaftermovie Dynamite. It has been a complete
pleasure talking to you yesterday and today. I will try and edit this together
by Thursday to put it out intothe world. But thank you very much,

(03:52:26):
and you are welcome back anytime toblush your way through the nineties.
Thank you, thank you for havingme on it. And yeah, we're
gonna get you on my show aswell, so point too, well,
yeah, we'll work that out forsure. Yes, we've come to the
end of the show. That wasn'tso bad, was it. You can
move forward now with the confidence thatyou are a survivor to play us out.

(03:52:52):
Here's some new music by Miscellaneous PlumbingFixtures, which you can find on
bandcamp, Spotify, and we're awhe music is found even TikTok, which
we don't understand. We're old andfind your childish, vain pursuits confusing.
Good night. I have now Blake'sagenda, happy in the plage he made

(03:53:26):
when the Friends looks like surrender andall the battles have been delayed, breaking
ways of winter. There is newlife on benea. When are your soul,

(03:53:52):
the pills, the splinting bunch,your time out devils. They get
a better day for someone you wantsone thing, declar and my conversation and

(03:54:18):
in this whole long just to showa stranger that a kid fat to go
on the wrong direction a lot ofcause and see it through. Make one

(03:54:43):
the only thing that matters, andit will come on back to you.
May get a better day for someto watch. Something remains a live the

(03:55:07):
simple and clear mountains of complacity,and just now there is no second drive

(03:55:45):
at the ending to your story.Find a home that's on your side and
everyone else around you welcome the rollingof the time. Let it roll at

(03:56:07):
a roll a roll. They han'ta matter of dan for someone who wants
something to plan the end quite conversationcan heal this whole world, just as

(03:56:28):
right that the kid they ain't forsomeone wants some favorite maybe to live the
simple can play mountains a complexity.Baby. Just know there is no second

(03:56:54):
crime. The second round w goingall fix the general. Just happy in
the place you made when your fiancelook flack surrender and all the battles have

(03:57:20):
been the league rag away all partsof winter. I f the deed.
When are your sold this bill tosplit to le time? Out Here is

(03:57:43):
free time time. The b

All Episodes

Season 2 Ep 2 - Sleazy Spader Springtime 6: Easy Sleazy Does It - Matt Poirier, Ideas, Writing & Crash

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

The Joe Rogan Experience

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Season 2 Ep 2 - Sleazy Spader Springtime 6: Easy Sleazy Does It - Matt Poirier, Ideas, Writing & Crash