July 4, 2025 • 24 mins
The Currency of Visibility: Turning Conversations into Clients
Let’s talk visibility—not the kind that leaves you exhausted from dancing with algorithms, but the kind that actually leads to meaningful connections and clients.
In this episode, I’m joined by the brilliant Carrolee Moore, speaker, strategist, and founder of the Podcast Pitching Society. We’re unpacking what intentional visibility really looks like for experts, coaches, and service providers who want to show up with clarity—not noise.
Carrolee shares how podcast guesting became her go-to marketing channel, the exact messaging strategy she uses to create trust quickly, and her signature “PowerPoint” framework that turns conversations into connection and conversion.
✨ You’ll walk away with:
- A smarter way to approach podcast guesting
- A framework for storytelling that converts without selling
- Clarity on how to position your offer with intention
- Relief from the pressure to “do all the things” on social media
- A reminder that visibility isn’t about showing up everywhere—it’s about showing up well
📢 Resources I mentioned in this episode:
💡 Take the SCORE Quiz – Your Messaging Clarity Checker: https://score.thecoachesplaza.com/
📕 Free Thrive & Scale Blueprint: https://thecoachesplaza.com/the-thrive-and-scale-blueprint
👥 Join Clients Over Chaos: https://login.thecoachesplaza.com/communities/groups/clients-over-chaos/home
📸 Follow me on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theamandakaufman
💼 Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandackaufman/
🎙️ More episodes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-amanda-kaufman-show/id1450993176
🎧 If you’ve been stuck wondering how to grow without burning out, or how to share your expertise without shouting into the void, this conversation is packed with real strategy and tangible takeaways.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You have to make sure that who you're targeting, they've told you what their problem isand all you're doing is just regurgitating back to them the language that they've used to
(00:09):
describe their problem and then talk about your solution.
(00:30):
Well, hey, hey, Amanda here and welcome back to the Amanda Kaufman show.
I am so excited to welcome a fellow local entrepreneur.
Carrolee Moore is joining me today.
She is an award winning speaker, marketing strategist and CEO of the Podcast PitchingSociety.
I love that.
(00:50):
So good.
She helps underrepresented experts gain visibility and attract qualified leads throughstrategic podcast guesting.
Well, how perfect is that?
You're a guest on my podcast today.
Carolee, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for having me, Amanda.
And I love that we just found out that we live probably what, 45, 50 minutes away fromeach other?
Kind of crazy.
(01:11):
and like that that is not as common as you would think.
You know, when you get into there's a reason I'm an online entrepreneur.
So I love it.
Well, Carolee, I'm just so excited about what you're going to share with us aroundpodcasting today.
But before we get like into the nitty gritty, I just really love to know why why podcastpitching society?
(01:33):
What led you to that as your key focus in your business?
Well, for me, this all started when I was young, right?
And I'm actually Jamaican, born, raised there, don't let the accent fool you.
And a huge part of my culture, a huge part of my childhood was my family.
(01:55):
coming together and just telling stories.
We'd sit for hours and you'd have the storytellers of the family with just dramaticstories and people laughing.
They had these things called Duppy Stories, which were like scary stories.
Didn't like those that much, but like I enjoyed that whole thing.
And so when I moved here in 98, the way that I try to kind of get into the culture wasthrough movies, music, like the typical kind of.
(02:23):
storytelling aspects of the culture to try and understand and frankly to fit in and stopbeing mercilessly bullied by my classmates.
And so really from that point on up and through college I was obsessed with anything thathad to do with storytelling.
So writing poetry, all of those things came naturally to me.
(02:43):
Graduate school and in know regular undergraduate communications.
writing, English, all of those things were there.
What shifted though is I graduated in the middle of a recession and that voice of like beresponsible, get a job that will pay even though it won't.
I ended up at McKesson and project management the complete opposite.
(03:06):
Yeah.
that and stayed there for quite a few years actually and cut to you know probably likewhat 12 years later I had been working in kind of straight-laced jobs and sales some
marketing but on the side I was building a fairly like thriving graphic design business asa side hustle and eventually of course they find out that you can do all these things and
(03:33):
so it starts to seep into your job.
So by the time I left corporate, I was actually responsible for telling the stories of theorganizations that I was a part of.
When I left corporate, I'm...
Yeah, when I left corporate, I made the decision to move from Massachusetts where I hadbeen living for over like 30 years at that point to Texas.
(03:55):
Site unseen, I had never been to the Dallas, Fort Worth area.
I had no friends, no family, no church connections, absolutely nothing.
I was just kind of told I'm a believer.
I believe that the Holy Spirit kind of led me to this area.
And so when I got here with like almost no money, no connection,
know anything, again, I just decided to go into storytelling.
(04:18):
I built my business by building relationships and telling my story to people and helpingthem tell their stories.
So working with small businesses do that.
So I built that first business from like an air mattress in my living room to amulti-six-figure business simply just by telling stories.
And I found podcast guesting through that.
I found speaking through that.
(04:39):
And then I burnt out.
And so I spent a few months after closing down that agency and letting go of my entireteam, which had been up to that point around eight or nine people, really doing some soul
searching, but also asking the questions to...
different experts that I knew, hey, what do you actually really need?
Not what I think you need or what you want, but what do you need in order to make yourbusiness 10x, 5x, et cetera?
(05:06):
And in different ways, they all kind of said visibility.
uh And so I decided.
Yeah, I decided to build my business around answering that specific question.
How do I get real experts visibility that not only makes them look good or gets people toknow who they are, but actually pays off in like bottom line revenue.
(05:30):
And I thought about how I do podcast guesting and started kind of offering not only theservice to get people booked,
but training them on how to tell stories that convert, that are not super salesy, right?
That you have a through line.
Now, if anyone's listening right now, I just told a story.
(05:50):
The linchpin is storytelling, right?
I talk to you about all the things that I've done, so you're hearing my experience, andyou also now are tying it directly to what I do specifically, right?
It's not salesy.
You didn't feel attacked.
You weren't thinking I was coming into your living room with my thing ready for a sale,right?
(06:10):
But that's the point of this, right?
Where you're getting in front of the folks that you believe are your unique...
target audience and talking about what you do in a way that gets them excited to connectwith you.
I love it.
love it.
And so thank you so much for that story.
And I love asking entrepreneurs about their origins.
one of the things that came up for me as you were telling that story is I'm like, man, itreally is like a rite of passage when people build an expert business.
(06:38):
At first, we start with what we think the world needs.
And then you can go pretty far for a long time pursuing that thing that you are so surethat the world needs.
And one day...
You level up and that level up is exactly what you did, which was you got asked, right?
Like have the real conversation survey.
Like what's the perspective of the market that you wanna serve?
(07:01):
And then, you know, kinda come back to, okay, how does my genius and my desire match towhat people actually want?
I'm so curious when you did that, when you made that adjustment to ask, right?
What people wanted.
Was business easier for you?
I can help but notice you're still in business.
(07:21):
Yeah, I'll just give you an example.
The first month that we officially launched, because I tiptoed my way into launching thisbusiness, let be honest, I had been tweaking as we do, tweaking my way into oblivion and
my coach was like, or you could just, you know, sell it.
So.
I like your coach.
(07:42):
Yeah.
I went to a conference actually in Atlanta.
And from that one conference in two days, I made over $21,000.
as like a six month, or at that time it was a three month contract basis.
And so that first month we collected, first month in business with this one, collectedover five figures.
(08:03):
First month.
And you went to just to underline this part of the story.
You went to a conference and met people you did not know and walked away after two dayswith $21,000 of business and yeah.
connected to storytelling.
I cannot tell you how important it is for you to develop messaging that is going to cut,like it cuts to the heart of what people are really feeling, right?
(08:33):
And when we think about visibility, a lot of times people are thinking about social mediaand like.
When it comes down to it, the folks that I like working with, when I say an expert,someone who's been doing the do for 15, 20 years, they probably hate social media.
Why?
Because they can talk for three hours about the thing that they're really passionate aboutand social media is forcing you to kind of do this.
(08:55):
And if you don't know how to do it well, it doesn't really get any traction.
And so therefore you think something is wrong with you and wrong with like whatever whenin fact, it's just the vehicle that you're using.
Right.
And so visibility.
When I talk to our experts, I'm like, a podcast is probably one of the best ways for anyexpert to really...
(09:17):
showcase what it is that they do and how they do it, whatever.
But a conference, going to a conference that has a bunch of your ideal clients in the roomthat have already been qualified, they're already on, like, they know they're about to be
sold to by whoever is running that conference, so they're ready, you know, pocketbooksopen, most of them.
It's ripe for the picking.
(09:39):
If you know what you're doing and you get in there, it's ripe for the picking.
I had no idea.
can't tell you I was like yeah I knew I was gonna make all this money at this point, noidea because I had no idea whether the the concept would work.
I knew people wanted it, I hoped that it would work.
But then when I saw that it worked, when I saw that the messaging was like spot on andthen we kept tweaking it, it's like, absolutely.
(10:05):
So like that is the first thing.
You have to make sure that who you're targeting, they've told you what their problem isand all you're doing is just regurgitating back to them the language that they've used to
describe their problem and then talk about your solution.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And you know, we we launched earlier this year our first five club for coaches and thewhole tenet the whole principle behind the the community and what we're doing there is
(10:32):
it's all about getting you know, I Don't just call it this is generally called the MVPright the minimum viable product and it's like when you The general philosophy is if it's
easy to sell and especially if it's easy to sell to a stranger so when I say easy, meanlike
You don't have to do backflips.
You don't have to do the, the, you know, crazy psychology.
(10:55):
You don't have to know any NLP.
You just make the offer.
And if the offer is really good, then it's easy to sell, you know, and, and, know,personally, I find it a little easier to fulfill on offers that are also easy to sell
because everybody's on the same page about what are we here to do, you know, and if we'reall clear on that, then boom, you know, we're,
(11:18):
in business, literally, literally in business.
podcast guesting, talk to me a little bit about your top recommendations.
know, first of all, maybe let's take a second and define what it is.
You know, I think a lot of a lot of entrepreneurs think, I have to have a podcast.
And, you know, I'll tell you what, having a podcast, so rewarding.
(11:40):
Love it.
And it's also one of my very intentional decisions about how I want to create and expresscontent in the world.
And it takes a team, it takes effort, it takes consistency.
We have a bunch of automation that we've set up in the back to make sure that our guestsare well taken care of.
(12:02):
Like there's quite a bit that goes into actually hosting a podcast.
Now technically, you know, it's also...
a $5 subscription at like Libsyn or something like that, you you're off to the races, thepodcast is published, but what makes a good podcast is one that people listen to.
And that's where all the work of like owning the podcast comes in that people aregenerally unprepared for.
(12:25):
So can you take a beat and just define for us, well, what's podcast guessing?
you know, why should this be something that an entrepreneur is prioritizing, especially ifmaybe they're busy and they're having a hard time keeping up with the social media, the
email marketing, and having a fully integrated digital marketing strategy, which takestime to build.
(12:46):
Absolutely.
First of all, I just want to say this, your back end is so tight.
It was an incredible experience for me because I do a lot of these to kind of see yourprocess come through.
And I'm also a podcaster myself.
So seeing that, I felt well taken care of.
So just want to.
(13:07):
say kudos to you and your team for creating that level of experience.
I know how much work that takes.
So I wanna give you your props like on wax so people can hear it.
It's incredible.
So that's that one.
Podcast Guesting is now becoming a true marketing channel.
Before it was just kind of like the thing that you would do to have conversations and itwas nice Super formal for the most part And then there were like the sleazy sleazy salesy
(13:34):
people.
I was these two babies Yeah Right
but keep going.
So that was what it was for a while.
And I think now there is this nuance that is being found in the middle, especially forbusiness owners.
so podcast casting is not new.
What is new, like I said, is now that it's being kind of considered a marketing, a truemarketing champ.
(13:58):
to use it as a marketing channel, you need the same tenants that you would need for anyother marketing channel.
We've been talking about an offer.
You need an offer, need a good offer.
You need to understand who your target audience is.
And it's newsflash, not everybody, right?
So figuring out, figuring out who your target audience is, figuring out what your offeris, and then thinking through what the messaging is.
(14:21):
What are the things that you really want
to use to showcase what you do.
We actually call this your PowerPoint.
So when in podcast guesting, a lot of people come in and they're either like we talkedabout, super salesy and ridiculous, or it's great conversation, but it leads to absolutely
like nowhere, right?
What we teach our clients is to actually create a PowerPoint.
(14:43):
A PowerPoint is a three layered cake.
At the core,
bottom of this cake to hold it all in there, ironically, a storytelling, right?
That's the foundation.
It's the stories that you tell.
You put in here now your expertise and you have some weight to this cake.
And then you put on top of that your offer and it's the cherry on the top.
Right?
And so, thank you.
(15:05):
I'm also a fatty in like a skinny person's body.
I like desserts.
Hence why our-
kind, but I like cake.
That's why our framework is actually literally called Keg, which is terrible.
But for me, it works.
ah
That is literally what you need to do.
And so if you go back and even listen to the first part of this conversation, you can hearme doing some of that already.
(15:29):
Even though I haven't gotten super specific on like client casework and all this otherstuff, you use that as a guest to showcase specific things.
We talk a lot as business owners about know, like, and trust.
And that PowerPoint, if you're using it over and over throughout the conversation,
will shorten that.
(15:50):
People will start to like you, right?
Have good conversation.
They'll start to trust you because you're giving like actionable tips and things thatpeople can actually use and it's not just like fluff or like I call it like lukewarm
advice.
It's like, okay, I could have read that on like 10 different social media posts, you know,as I open the...
uh It is more and more now.
(16:12):
you're seeing a hunger for like true opinions.
What do I mean by true opinions?
People are looking for you to stand 10 toes down on something that will split a room.
If you're either gonna completely agree or completely disagree.
Those are the types of messages that are working right now.
Whether we agree or not that that should be the case, that is what's happening.
(16:35):
It's a very polarized world.
It's not just the US, it's not just even about politics.
Think about how we see the world at this point.
There's not a lot of grays right now.
Everyone is kind of choosing sides no matter what it is.
And if you come across as someone who's just stuck in the middle,
left behind or ignored and as an expert, someone who's been in the industry, right, ifyou're podcast guessing, you need to make it clear, hey this is where I stand.
(17:04):
Anti-social content marketing is not just like my schtick, it is literally, I don't likesocial media and I have
social media and I wanted to figure out a way to build my business where it wasn'tcompletely dependent on it and I figured it out and now I'm choosing to now like give that
same game to other people right so that is my you know hill to die on if you will and it'sbased
(17:27):
It's based around science, it's based around things, because I'm a nerd, around how peopleare choosing to commune at this point.
What does community look like now?
And I feel like social media has completely demolished that.
And I do see a move away from a real...
need for social media to feel connected.
(17:48):
see people going back to like real meetings and going outside and touching grass.
You're seeing more of that.
know, there's like, there's, there's a, there's certainly a lot.
Look, there's so many ways that you can promote your business.
And, you know, 10, 10 toes digging deep in.
I don't totally agree.
(18:08):
But that's why I have these conversations, right?
Because there's lots of different perspectives.
And I do think there's so much value and focus.
And I love how what you've done is, is you've got this channel.
and you've really dug deep.
Because I think the thing that a lot of people maybe have the expectation of is that I canjust do a short form reel in my car and I'm suddenly going to be a millionaire.
(18:34):
And my personal philosophy, 10 toes deep, is you need an integrated strategy.
And social media, like it or not, more people are spending more time on there.
But I agree with you, the content is
not so good.
And what I love, love, love about your strategy is that when you do this well, when you'reable to be a great guest because you've got the cake, guess what gets easier, right?
(19:01):
And I think the problem with social media for most is that they're trying to begin withsocial media and build a reputation that way.
And the truth is, is that the very best people at social media and PS all media, they havea core that they are
you know, announcing from in social media is just another channel.
And you're right, it does require different skill sets in addition to the core that you'vedone such a beautiful, beautiful job of walking us through.
(19:31):
so, so currently I, I'm like not to argue on on the show, but like actually, yeah, toargue a little.
I think I think the thing is, is that, you know, dear listener, it's
not easy if it was, if it was just one straight answer, then you would probably have thatand everybody would be following that one way.
(19:51):
So if we don't have the discussion, then there's no way to get like another perspectiveand look at it a different way.
So yeah, so good.
I'm so curious, you you've obviously unpacked a lot around the podcast guesting, thebenefit of it, the process that you take people through.
This is just a tremendously valuable
So I just want to start off by saying thank you so much.
(20:15):
You're welcome.
I'm excited.
This is what I love to talk about.
I'm the person who's like, let me go for three hours.
It's like, okay.
I know these tight little episodes can sometimes be tough, but if people wanted to followyou, what would be the best way to do that?
The best way to do that is definitely LinkedIn.
That is my kind of core place that I'm in right now.
If you are listening to this and you are either starting your podcast guesting journey oryou're on it but you're not really getting the shows that you would like or you're sure
(20:45):
there's a better way to do what you're doing, we actually have a mini course and it's afree mini course and it is hyperlinked on my LinkedIn profile.
So twofer, we get to connect and be friends.
And then you also get that free resource.
So, love for...
That's tremendous.
That's really outstanding that you're offering that.
And I understand you have a new podcast coming out.
Is there anything that you can tell us about what you're cooking up?
(21:08):
Absolutely, super, super excited about this.
So this podcast is called The Currency of Visibility and it's exactly what it sounds like.
We're talking about.
title, wow.
trademarking it as we speak.
So that particular podcast is very similar to this, right?
Where you're having people come on, talk about the things that they're experts in andgiving tangible advice that the audience could then use and build whatever they're
(21:38):
building better.
Right?
So the idea of currency connected to visibility, that you're not just doing the things,whether it's social media, email, et cetera, just to do them, you are actually thinking
about the bottom line of it all.
Right?
So we're not just kind of pointing on whatever on TikTok and doing the thing.
What does it actually mean for the bottom line and how can you create kind of a cohesiveplan?
(22:01):
So we'll have people on there that have built multi seven figure businesses using TikTok.
uh
way that she did that.
People that have, yeah, exactly.
People have done events and built this seven multi seven figure business using events andspeaking live.
People who have done corporate contracts and done that.
Like, so I really want to get people an understanding of visibility is not this kind ofone little thing.
(22:24):
I think we've kind of stuck on the social media piece.
I want to broaden that conversation and bring people that have like real success to showfolks like, hey, you can do this differently.
Right?
So super excited about it.
Thank you for the opportunity to talk about that.
Thousand percent a thousand percent and you know, I I do like maintain that I think thatsocial media is a really really important strategy But I think the thing that I love about
(22:48):
your strategy is it gives people a way to open doors The way that social media really doeshelp you is to nurture relationships that you've already established and it is so hard I
completely agree here that that it's
challenging to use that algorithm to expand your following with people who are perfect foryour offer.
(23:10):
Whereas when somebody is listening to a podcast, like that's such an intentional decision.
And when somebody's decided to undertake the effort like you're doing with the currency ofvisibility, you're taking care of the promotion, you're taking care of the right people
being able to see it.
So then being a guest, helps you because then
you've got lots more content, right?
(23:31):
But it also helps the guests because then they get to, you know, accelerate things pastkind of the natural expansion of your network, you know, whether it's offline, online, all
the lines.
But I just I love what you're doing.
I think it's so super cool.
And dear listener, if you love this, if you if you found this to be really helpful and apowerful conversation, make sure you grab the link and share it with three of your
(23:55):
friends.
You can just text it to them and let them have a listen for another way that they can gainthat visibility.
The frameworks that Carolee taught in this session were just so powerful.
also, we're going to have more episodes.
So you might want to hit Subscribe if you haven't already.
And you know what?
If you just feel like going that extra mile, 30 seconds to leave us a review.
(24:15):
my gosh.
You know, if a picture was worth a thousand words, a review is worth a million because itjust helps people to choose to listen to this show of the lots of options that they have
out there.
So thank you so much in advance for doing that.
And in the meantime, until the next episode, make sure you do what matters.
You have to make sure that who you're targeting, they've told you what their problem isand all you're doing is just regurgitating back to them the language that they've used to
(00:09):
describe their problem and then talk about your solution.
(00:30):
Well, hey, hey, Amanda here and welcome back to the Amanda Kaufman show.
I am so excited to welcome a fellow local entrepreneur.
Carrolee Moore is joining me today.
She is an award winning speaker, marketing strategist and CEO of the Podcast PitchingSociety.
I love that.
(00:50):
So good.
She helps underrepresented experts gain visibility and attract qualified leads throughstrategic podcast guesting.
Well, how perfect is that?
You're a guest on my podcast today.
Carolee, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for having me, Amanda.
And I love that we just found out that we live probably what, 45, 50 minutes away fromeach other?
Kind of crazy.
(01:11):
and like that that is not as common as you would think.
You know, when you get into there's a reason I'm an online entrepreneur.
So I love it.
Well, Carolee, I'm just so excited about what you're going to share with us aroundpodcasting today.
But before we get like into the nitty gritty, I just really love to know why why podcastpitching society?
(01:33):
What led you to that as your key focus in your business?
Well, for me, this all started when I was young, right?
And I'm actually Jamaican, born, raised there, don't let the accent fool you.
And a huge part of my culture, a huge part of my childhood was my family.
(01:55):
coming together and just telling stories.
We'd sit for hours and you'd have the storytellers of the family with just dramaticstories and people laughing.
They had these things called Duppy Stories, which were like scary stories.
Didn't like those that much, but like I enjoyed that whole thing.
And so when I moved here in 98, the way that I try to kind of get into the culture wasthrough movies, music, like the typical kind of.
(02:23):
storytelling aspects of the culture to try and understand and frankly to fit in and stopbeing mercilessly bullied by my classmates.
And so really from that point on up and through college I was obsessed with anything thathad to do with storytelling.
So writing poetry, all of those things came naturally to me.
(02:43):
Graduate school and in know regular undergraduate communications.
writing, English, all of those things were there.
What shifted though is I graduated in the middle of a recession and that voice of like beresponsible, get a job that will pay even though it won't.
I ended up at McKesson and project management the complete opposite.
(03:06):
Yeah.
that and stayed there for quite a few years actually and cut to you know probably likewhat 12 years later I had been working in kind of straight-laced jobs and sales some
marketing but on the side I was building a fairly like thriving graphic design business asa side hustle and eventually of course they find out that you can do all these things and
(03:33):
so it starts to seep into your job.
So by the time I left corporate, I was actually responsible for telling the stories of theorganizations that I was a part of.
When I left corporate, I'm...
Yeah, when I left corporate, I made the decision to move from Massachusetts where I hadbeen living for over like 30 years at that point to Texas.
(03:55):
Site unseen, I had never been to the Dallas, Fort Worth area.
I had no friends, no family, no church connections, absolutely nothing.
I was just kind of told I'm a believer.
I believe that the Holy Spirit kind of led me to this area.
And so when I got here with like almost no money, no connection,
know anything, again, I just decided to go into storytelling.
(04:18):
I built my business by building relationships and telling my story to people and helpingthem tell their stories.
So working with small businesses do that.
So I built that first business from like an air mattress in my living room to amulti-six-figure business simply just by telling stories.
And I found podcast guesting through that.
I found speaking through that.
(04:39):
And then I burnt out.
And so I spent a few months after closing down that agency and letting go of my entireteam, which had been up to that point around eight or nine people, really doing some soul
searching, but also asking the questions to...
different experts that I knew, hey, what do you actually really need?
Not what I think you need or what you want, but what do you need in order to make yourbusiness 10x, 5x, et cetera?
(05:06):
And in different ways, they all kind of said visibility.
uh And so I decided.
Yeah, I decided to build my business around answering that specific question.
How do I get real experts visibility that not only makes them look good or gets people toknow who they are, but actually pays off in like bottom line revenue.
(05:30):
And I thought about how I do podcast guesting and started kind of offering not only theservice to get people booked,
but training them on how to tell stories that convert, that are not super salesy, right?
That you have a through line.
Now, if anyone's listening right now, I just told a story.
(05:50):
The linchpin is storytelling, right?
I talk to you about all the things that I've done, so you're hearing my experience, andyou also now are tying it directly to what I do specifically, right?
It's not salesy.
You didn't feel attacked.
You weren't thinking I was coming into your living room with my thing ready for a sale,right?
(06:10):
But that's the point of this, right?
Where you're getting in front of the folks that you believe are your unique...
target audience and talking about what you do in a way that gets them excited to connectwith you.
I love it.
love it.
And so thank you so much for that story.
And I love asking entrepreneurs about their origins.
one of the things that came up for me as you were telling that story is I'm like, man, itreally is like a rite of passage when people build an expert business.
(06:38):
At first, we start with what we think the world needs.
And then you can go pretty far for a long time pursuing that thing that you are so surethat the world needs.
And one day...
You level up and that level up is exactly what you did, which was you got asked, right?
Like have the real conversation survey.
Like what's the perspective of the market that you wanna serve?
(07:01):
And then, you know, kinda come back to, okay, how does my genius and my desire match towhat people actually want?
I'm so curious when you did that, when you made that adjustment to ask, right?
What people wanted.
Was business easier for you?
I can help but notice you're still in business.
(07:21):
Yeah, I'll just give you an example.
The first month that we officially launched, because I tiptoed my way into launching thisbusiness, let be honest, I had been tweaking as we do, tweaking my way into oblivion and
my coach was like, or you could just, you know, sell it.
So.
I like your coach.
(07:42):
Yeah.
I went to a conference actually in Atlanta.
And from that one conference in two days, I made over $21,000.
as like a six month, or at that time it was a three month contract basis.
And so that first month we collected, first month in business with this one, collectedover five figures.
(08:03):
First month.
And you went to just to underline this part of the story.
You went to a conference and met people you did not know and walked away after two dayswith $21,000 of business and yeah.
connected to storytelling.
I cannot tell you how important it is for you to develop messaging that is going to cut,like it cuts to the heart of what people are really feeling, right?
(08:33):
And when we think about visibility, a lot of times people are thinking about social mediaand like.
When it comes down to it, the folks that I like working with, when I say an expert,someone who's been doing the do for 15, 20 years, they probably hate social media.
Why?
Because they can talk for three hours about the thing that they're really passionate aboutand social media is forcing you to kind of do this.
(08:55):
And if you don't know how to do it well, it doesn't really get any traction.
And so therefore you think something is wrong with you and wrong with like whatever whenin fact, it's just the vehicle that you're using.
Right.
And so visibility.
When I talk to our experts, I'm like, a podcast is probably one of the best ways for anyexpert to really...
(09:17):
showcase what it is that they do and how they do it, whatever.
But a conference, going to a conference that has a bunch of your ideal clients in the roomthat have already been qualified, they're already on, like, they know they're about to be
sold to by whoever is running that conference, so they're ready, you know, pocketbooksopen, most of them.
It's ripe for the picking.
(09:39):
If you know what you're doing and you get in there, it's ripe for the picking.
I had no idea.
can't tell you I was like yeah I knew I was gonna make all this money at this point, noidea because I had no idea whether the the concept would work.
I knew people wanted it, I hoped that it would work.
But then when I saw that it worked, when I saw that the messaging was like spot on andthen we kept tweaking it, it's like, absolutely.
(10:05):
So like that is the first thing.
You have to make sure that who you're targeting, they've told you what their problem isand all you're doing is just regurgitating back to them the language that they've used to
describe their problem and then talk about your solution.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And you know, we we launched earlier this year our first five club for coaches and thewhole tenet the whole principle behind the the community and what we're doing there is
(10:32):
it's all about getting you know, I Don't just call it this is generally called the MVPright the minimum viable product and it's like when you The general philosophy is if it's
easy to sell and especially if it's easy to sell to a stranger so when I say easy, meanlike
You don't have to do backflips.
You don't have to do the, the, you know, crazy psychology.
(10:55):
You don't have to know any NLP.
You just make the offer.
And if the offer is really good, then it's easy to sell, you know, and, and, know,personally, I find it a little easier to fulfill on offers that are also easy to sell
because everybody's on the same page about what are we here to do, you know, and if we'reall clear on that, then boom, you know, we're,
(11:18):
in business, literally, literally in business.
podcast guesting, talk to me a little bit about your top recommendations.
know, first of all, maybe let's take a second and define what it is.
You know, I think a lot of a lot of entrepreneurs think, I have to have a podcast.
And, you know, I'll tell you what, having a podcast, so rewarding.
(11:40):
Love it.
And it's also one of my very intentional decisions about how I want to create and expresscontent in the world.
And it takes a team, it takes effort, it takes consistency.
We have a bunch of automation that we've set up in the back to make sure that our guestsare well taken care of.
(12:02):
Like there's quite a bit that goes into actually hosting a podcast.
Now technically, you know, it's also...
a $5 subscription at like Libsyn or something like that, you you're off to the races, thepodcast is published, but what makes a good podcast is one that people listen to.
And that's where all the work of like owning the podcast comes in that people aregenerally unprepared for.
(12:25):
So can you take a beat and just define for us, well, what's podcast guessing?
you know, why should this be something that an entrepreneur is prioritizing, especially ifmaybe they're busy and they're having a hard time keeping up with the social media, the
email marketing, and having a fully integrated digital marketing strategy, which takestime to build.
(12:46):
Absolutely.
First of all, I just want to say this, your back end is so tight.
It was an incredible experience for me because I do a lot of these to kind of see yourprocess come through.
And I'm also a podcaster myself.
So seeing that, I felt well taken care of.
So just want to.
(13:07):
say kudos to you and your team for creating that level of experience.
I know how much work that takes.
So I wanna give you your props like on wax so people can hear it.
It's incredible.
So that's that one.
Podcast Guesting is now becoming a true marketing channel.
Before it was just kind of like the thing that you would do to have conversations and itwas nice Super formal for the most part And then there were like the sleazy sleazy salesy
(13:34):
people.
I was these two babies Yeah Right
but keep going.
So that was what it was for a while.
And I think now there is this nuance that is being found in the middle, especially forbusiness owners.
so podcast casting is not new.
What is new, like I said, is now that it's being kind of considered a marketing, a truemarketing champ.
(13:58):
to use it as a marketing channel, you need the same tenants that you would need for anyother marketing channel.
We've been talking about an offer.
You need an offer, need a good offer.
You need to understand who your target audience is.
And it's newsflash, not everybody, right?
So figuring out, figuring out who your target audience is, figuring out what your offeris, and then thinking through what the messaging is.
(14:21):
What are the things that you really want
to use to showcase what you do.
We actually call this your PowerPoint.
So when in podcast guesting, a lot of people come in and they're either like we talkedabout, super salesy and ridiculous, or it's great conversation, but it leads to absolutely
like nowhere, right?
What we teach our clients is to actually create a PowerPoint.
(14:43):
A PowerPoint is a three layered cake.
At the core,
bottom of this cake to hold it all in there, ironically, a storytelling, right?
That's the foundation.
It's the stories that you tell.
You put in here now your expertise and you have some weight to this cake.
And then you put on top of that your offer and it's the cherry on the top.
Right?
And so, thank you.
(15:05):
I'm also a fatty in like a skinny person's body.
I like desserts.
Hence why our-
kind, but I like cake.
That's why our framework is actually literally called Keg, which is terrible.
But for me, it works.
ah
That is literally what you need to do.
And so if you go back and even listen to the first part of this conversation, you can hearme doing some of that already.
(15:29):
Even though I haven't gotten super specific on like client casework and all this otherstuff, you use that as a guest to showcase specific things.
We talk a lot as business owners about know, like, and trust.
And that PowerPoint, if you're using it over and over throughout the conversation,
will shorten that.
(15:50):
People will start to like you, right?
Have good conversation.
They'll start to trust you because you're giving like actionable tips and things thatpeople can actually use and it's not just like fluff or like I call it like lukewarm
advice.
It's like, okay, I could have read that on like 10 different social media posts, you know,as I open the...
uh It is more and more now.
(16:12):
you're seeing a hunger for like true opinions.
What do I mean by true opinions?
People are looking for you to stand 10 toes down on something that will split a room.
If you're either gonna completely agree or completely disagree.
Those are the types of messages that are working right now.
Whether we agree or not that that should be the case, that is what's happening.
(16:35):
It's a very polarized world.
It's not just the US, it's not just even about politics.
Think about how we see the world at this point.
There's not a lot of grays right now.
Everyone is kind of choosing sides no matter what it is.
And if you come across as someone who's just stuck in the middle,
left behind or ignored and as an expert, someone who's been in the industry, right, ifyou're podcast guessing, you need to make it clear, hey this is where I stand.
(17:04):
Anti-social content marketing is not just like my schtick, it is literally, I don't likesocial media and I have
social media and I wanted to figure out a way to build my business where it wasn'tcompletely dependent on it and I figured it out and now I'm choosing to now like give that
same game to other people right so that is my you know hill to die on if you will and it'sbased
(17:27):
It's based around science, it's based around things, because I'm a nerd, around how peopleare choosing to commune at this point.
What does community look like now?
And I feel like social media has completely demolished that.
And I do see a move away from a real...
need for social media to feel connected.
(17:48):
see people going back to like real meetings and going outside and touching grass.
You're seeing more of that.
know, there's like, there's, there's a, there's certainly a lot.
Look, there's so many ways that you can promote your business.
And, you know, 10, 10 toes digging deep in.
I don't totally agree.
(18:08):
But that's why I have these conversations, right?
Because there's lots of different perspectives.
And I do think there's so much value and focus.
And I love how what you've done is, is you've got this channel.
and you've really dug deep.
Because I think the thing that a lot of people maybe have the expectation of is that I canjust do a short form reel in my car and I'm suddenly going to be a millionaire.
(18:34):
And my personal philosophy, 10 toes deep, is you need an integrated strategy.
And social media, like it or not, more people are spending more time on there.
But I agree with you, the content is
not so good.
And what I love, love, love about your strategy is that when you do this well, when you'reable to be a great guest because you've got the cake, guess what gets easier, right?
(19:01):
And I think the problem with social media for most is that they're trying to begin withsocial media and build a reputation that way.
And the truth is, is that the very best people at social media and PS all media, they havea core that they are
you know, announcing from in social media is just another channel.
And you're right, it does require different skill sets in addition to the core that you'vedone such a beautiful, beautiful job of walking us through.
(19:31):
so, so currently I, I'm like not to argue on on the show, but like actually, yeah, toargue a little.
I think I think the thing is, is that, you know, dear listener, it's
not easy if it was, if it was just one straight answer, then you would probably have thatand everybody would be following that one way.
(19:51):
So if we don't have the discussion, then there's no way to get like another perspectiveand look at it a different way.
So yeah, so good.
I'm so curious, you you've obviously unpacked a lot around the podcast guesting, thebenefit of it, the process that you take people through.
This is just a tremendously valuable
So I just want to start off by saying thank you so much.
(20:15):
You're welcome.
I'm excited.
This is what I love to talk about.
I'm the person who's like, let me go for three hours.
It's like, okay.
I know these tight little episodes can sometimes be tough, but if people wanted to followyou, what would be the best way to do that?
The best way to do that is definitely LinkedIn.
That is my kind of core place that I'm in right now.
If you are listening to this and you are either starting your podcast guesting journey oryou're on it but you're not really getting the shows that you would like or you're sure
(20:45):
there's a better way to do what you're doing, we actually have a mini course and it's afree mini course and it is hyperlinked on my LinkedIn profile.
So twofer, we get to connect and be friends.
And then you also get that free resource.
So, love for...
That's tremendous.
That's really outstanding that you're offering that.
And I understand you have a new podcast coming out.
Is there anything that you can tell us about what you're cooking up?
(21:08):
Absolutely, super, super excited about this.
So this podcast is called The Currency of Visibility and it's exactly what it sounds like.
We're talking about.
title, wow.
trademarking it as we speak.
So that particular podcast is very similar to this, right?
Where you're having people come on, talk about the things that they're experts in andgiving tangible advice that the audience could then use and build whatever they're
(21:38):
building better.
Right?
So the idea of currency connected to visibility, that you're not just doing the things,whether it's social media, email, et cetera, just to do them, you are actually thinking
about the bottom line of it all.
Right?
So we're not just kind of pointing on whatever on TikTok and doing the thing.
What does it actually mean for the bottom line and how can you create kind of a cohesiveplan?
(22:01):
So we'll have people on there that have built multi seven figure businesses using TikTok.
uh
way that she did that.
People that have, yeah, exactly.
People have done events and built this seven multi seven figure business using events andspeaking live.
People who have done corporate contracts and done that.
Like, so I really want to get people an understanding of visibility is not this kind ofone little thing.
(22:24):
I think we've kind of stuck on the social media piece.
I want to broaden that conversation and bring people that have like real success to showfolks like, hey, you can do this differently.
Right?
So super excited about it.
Thank you for the opportunity to talk about that.
Thousand percent a thousand percent and you know, I I do like maintain that I think thatsocial media is a really really important strategy But I think the thing that I love about
(22:48):
your strategy is it gives people a way to open doors The way that social media really doeshelp you is to nurture relationships that you've already established and it is so hard I
completely agree here that that it's
challenging to use that algorithm to expand your following with people who are perfect foryour offer.
(23:10):
Whereas when somebody is listening to a podcast, like that's such an intentional decision.
And when somebody's decided to undertake the effort like you're doing with the currency ofvisibility, you're taking care of the promotion, you're taking care of the right people
being able to see it.
So then being a guest, helps you because then
you've got lots more content, right?
(23:31):
But it also helps the guests because then they get to, you know, accelerate things pastkind of the natural expansion of your network, you know, whether it's offline, online, all
the lines.
But I just I love what you're doing.
I think it's so super cool.
And dear listener, if you love this, if you if you found this to be really helpful and apowerful conversation, make sure you grab the link and share it with three of your
(23:55):
friends.
You can just text it to them and let them have a listen for another way that they can gainthat visibility.
The frameworks that Carolee taught in this session were just so powerful.
also, we're going to have more episodes.
So you might want to hit Subscribe if you haven't already.
And you know what?
If you just feel like going that extra mile, 30 seconds to leave us a review.
(24:15):
my gosh.
You know, if a picture was worth a thousand words, a review is worth a million because itjust helps people to choose to listen to this show of the lots of options that they have
out there.
So thank you so much in advance for doing that.
And in the meantime, until the next episode, make sure you do what matters.
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