March 26, 2025 • 29 mins
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When struggling with chronic anxiety or anxiety disorders, our instinct is often to search for ways to control, manage, or eliminate our symptoms. But what if that approach is actually keeping us stuck?
This week we're looking at the fundamental difference between acceptance-based strategies and control/management-based approaches to anxiety recovery. Drawing from both research evidence and real-world experiences of anxiety sufferers, we'll explain why acceptance consistently produces better long-term outcomes than trying to control our internal experiences.
You'll learn:
- The critical distinction between externally-generated stress and internally-generated anxiety
- Why popular "anxiety hacks" and nervous system regulation techniques often backfire for disordered anxiety
- What acceptance actually means (and what it doesn't)
- The paradox of how accepting anxiety can ultimately lead to feeling less anxious
- Why it's difficult to combine acceptance and control strategies
Whether you're tired of collecting coping techniques that only provide temporary relief or you're curious about a different approach to anxiety recovery, this episode offers practical insights into a more sustainable path forward—one that doesn't depend on trying to manually control your thoughts, feelings, or bodily sensations.
Remember: there are no wrong experiences in anxiety recovery, only wins or learning opportunities. Whatever small step you take today toward facing rather than retreating from your fears counts.
For full show notes on this episode:
https://theanxioustruth.com/314
Support The Anxious Truth: If you find the podcast helpful and want to support my work, you can buy me a coffee. Other ways to support my work like buying a book or signing up for a low cost workshop can be found on my website. None of this is never required, but always appreciated!
Interested in doing therapy with me? For more information on working with me directly to overcome your anxiety, follow this link.
Disclaimer: The Anxious Truth is not therapy or a replacement for therapy. Listening to The Anxious Truth does not create a therapeutic relationship between you and the host or guests of the podcast. Information here is provided for psychoeducational purposes. As always, when you have questions about your own well-being, please consult your mental health and/or medical care providers. If you are having a mental health crisis, always reach out immediately for in-person help.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
When struggling to overcome chronic and disordered
states of anxiety,acceptance-based strategies are
superior to control andmanagement-based strategies, but
don't take my word for it.
A large number of your peersseem to agree, so we're going to
talk about that this week onthe Anxious Truth.
Hello everybody, welcome backto the Anxious Truth.
(00:22):
This is episode 314 of thepodcast we are recording in
March of 2025.
In case.
This is episode 314 of thepodcast we are recording in
March of 2025.
In case you are watching orlistening in the future, this
week on the Anxious Truth, we'regoing to talk about the
difference betweenacceptance-based strategies and
control-slash-management-basedstrategies when we're dealing
with chronic and disorderedstates of anxiety.
So stick around for that.
If you're new to the AnxiousTruth, this is the podcast where
(00:44):
we talk about all thingsanxiety, anxiety disorders and
anxiety recovery.
I am Drew Linsalata, creatorand host of this fine podcast or
I hope it's a fine podcast orthis YouTube channel, depending
on where you're consuming.
I am, as of March of 2025, apre-licensed therapist,
practicing under clinicalsupervision, specializing in the
treatment of anxiety andanxiety disorders.
I'm a three-time author on thistopic.
(01:10):
I am a podcaster, not onlyhosting the Anxious Truth, but
also co-hosting Disordered withmy buddy, josh Fletcher.
I am a past sufferer of thesevery same problems that I talk
about for many, many years of mylife, but much better now,
completely recovered for many,many years now as well.
Psychoeducator and advocate,social media guy, and I am going
to try to help as best I canwithin a one-to-many helping
model of either a podcastepisode or a YouTube video.
If you're new to the AnxiousTruth and you just stumbled upon
(01:32):
us today, I hope you find whatyou find here helpful or useful
or applicable in some way.
Of course, if you're areturning listener or viewer,
thanks.
I appreciate you stopping byand hanging out for another 20
minutes or so, whatever we'regoing to do today.
So we're going to talk aboutthe difference between
acceptance and controlstrategies when you're dealing
with anxiety and anxietydisorders.
(01:53):
Chronic and disordered states ofanxiety, which, I have to
remind you just quickly, is alittle bit different than just I
have anxiety.
Right, we talk about I haveanxiety all the time.
Everybody talks about it, it'sall over the place.
We're talking about internallygenerated states of anxiety.
There's a difference betweenI'm really anxious because my
boss is stressing me out or I'mreally anxious because I have
(02:13):
final exams coming up.
I'm really anxious because myneighbor and I are in a conflict
.
That's one type of anxiety.
Here, on the Anxious Truth,we're always talking about the
internally generated anxietythat results from being anxious
about being anxious.
It doesn't matter why you'reanxious, you only care that
you're anxious.
The anxiety itself becomes themost important thing.
(02:33):
The scary thoughts, the senseof distress, the discomfort.
That's what we're talking abouthere.
So we call that disorderedanxiety.
Some people might call itchronic anxiety and that's what
we're addressing.
When you're in this situationwhere you feel like you're
uncontrollably anxious all thetime for a variety of reasons,
that might mean panic attacks,which leads to agoraphobia.
It could be generalized anxietydisorder constant, persistent
(02:54):
states of overthinking andruminating and worrying.
It could be OCD.
It could be health anxiety.
There's a million differentways we can get to this chronic
or disordered place.
But when you're struggling withthat the most common way to try
to address that and if youspend a lot of time scrolling
around on YouTube or listeningto podcasts or doing the endless
scroll on platforms likeInstagram or TikTok, you're
(03:15):
going to see a lot of peopleadvocating for control and
management-based strategies.
So when you hear things likeregulating your nervous system,
nervous system regulation,no-transcript forever.
(03:46):
Or instantly calm down, orthese are ways to like eliminate
anxiety forever.
You are being taught aboutcontrol and management based
strategies.
Now that makes common sensebecause if you are an externally
sort of normally anxious personand you understand that you are
anxious because of somethingthat's happening that's
stressing you from outside yourskin, well, yeah, those might be
(04:08):
good stress management andanxiety management techniques
that we can use to help you,like deal with it and move
through it a little more so youcan stay focused on solving the
problem at hand or getting safeor getting out of the stressful
situation or whatever it happensto be.
But when we are in a chronicallyor disordered state of anxiety,
when you cannot get away fromyour own internal experiences,
(04:29):
like bodily sensations and scarythoughts, especially when those
are being triggered by a fearresponse, and your body and mind
are just doing what it'sdesigned to do trying to control
and manage that experience byacting directly on symptoms and
thoughts and trying to useinterventions or techniques or
hacks or tricks designed toprevent the triggering of
(04:51):
anxiety or instantly fix it,manipulate it, control it or
stop it when you do getuncomfortable, tends to be
counterproductive and while youmight find some strategies that
are helpful on the short term,sometimes you will also probably
find that they don't help onthe long term.
And even if you can find somestrategies that are helpful on
the short term, sometimes youwill also probably find that
they don't help on the long term.
And even if you can find somecoping strategies that are based
(05:11):
on control and management thatcan get you through anxious
moments, you have to keep usingthem again and again and again,
and you may wind up in asituation where you're wondering
I don't understand why I'mstill afraid to panic.
I don't understand why I stillhave OCD.
I don't understand why I'mstill afraid to panic.
I don't understand why I stillhave OCD.
I don't understand why I'mstill so worried and ruminate
about my health all the time.
So we have to look at theapplication of control and
(05:33):
management strategies in thecase of chronic and disordered
anxiety and maybe give it theside eye a little bit, because
those things tend not to work.
Now what we're talking aboutand what you hear people like me
talk about all the time peoplewho specialize in the treatment
of chronic and disorderedanxiety we are relying on
evidence-based and I sayevidence-based.
Not to be a snob or a sciencesnob, but these types of
(05:57):
treatments or approaches tochronic and disordered anxiety
that are based on things likeacceptance and mindfulness have
far better consistent outcomesfor the people who employ
acceptance and mindfulness-basedstrategies, as opposed to
people who rely on avoidance,control or management-based
strategies.
We just have too much data overmany, many years that shows us
(06:18):
that Now, acceptance andmindfulness those are sort of
the hallmarks of the mostcurrent forms of most effective,
empirically validatedtreatments for anxiety disorder
or chronic anxiety disorders orchronic anxiety, but they have
been baked into things likecognitive behavioral therapy for
a long time.
Just that, in the past, evencognitive behavioral therapies
(06:39):
were a little bit control-esque.
If you will, let's show youthat your thoughts are
irrational and then you canchange them, which, as it turns
out, doesn't really work allthat well.
Also, and that was a little bittoo control-heavy and wound up
with a lot of high relapse rates, and people had a hard time
maintaining a level of recoverythat they bound to, trying to
control their thoughts orinstantly change their thoughts
(07:02):
or change their beliefs justbecause they know that the old
beliefs were irrational right.
So we are really looking towardacceptance and
mindfulness-based strategies asthe most effective ways to deal
with these things.
This is a hard sell, because itis very difficult to convince
somebody who is incrediblyuncomfortable, afraid or feeling
distressed and feeling a littlebit worn down and hopeless by
(07:22):
that, that the way out of thatis to learn to accept the
situation we are never talkingabout.
This is where it's reallyimportant to understand the
difference between internallyand externally generated anxiety
.
If it's an external threat, wedo not accept external threats,
and a threat can be defined in alot of different ways.
If you are getting stressed outover things that you simply
(07:44):
cannot change in the world butthat don't pose an immediate
threat to you, well now we havelike a generalized anxiety
disorder kind of thing.
Or we have that overthinking,overplanning sort of control
freak thing.
We all understand the termcontrol freak, but if you are
trying to control things thatyou actually can in fact
interact with, that are makingyour life worse and stressing
(08:05):
you out, then that's a good plan, right.
So the issue here is when we'retrying to apply control and
management in situations wherethey were never meant to be
applied Control and managementin the context of our internal
experiences, like thoughts oremotions or beliefs or ideas or
even physical sensations which Iknow we don't always include
physical sensations technicallyin the realm of internal
(08:28):
experiences but it's importantto recognize that when we're
trying to apply control andmanagement approaches to things
inside of us that were simplynot designed to be controlled or
managed or manually operated,your nervous system doesn't
actually have levers and knobsthat you can manually operate.
I don't care what your favoritepodcast, biohacker, tells you
(08:49):
is true.
That simply doesn't appear towork in, at least in our
population.
When we try to apply managementand control strategies, things
tend to go off the rails, theybackfire, and then you can wind
up feeling really frustrated.
When we talk about accepting,remember, since it's an internal
state that we fear or we findso uncomfortable, but internal
states are not dangerous.
When we talk about acceptance,what we're learning to accept or
(09:12):
deal with and navigate throughor respond to more productively
is a state where we are veryuncomfortable or maybe really
afraid, but we are not in anyactual danger.
There really is no threat thatwe're trying to protect
ourselves from or get away from.
The perceived threat comes frominside us and while that can be
every bit as uncomfortable,scary and triggering, no doubt
(09:33):
about that.
We have to acknowledge the factthat we're not asking anybody
to use acceptance-basedstrategies in the course of
chronic and disordered anxietyto accept an actual threat or
accept actual danger.
It just feels like you'retrying to accept a dangerous
situation, but feeling like andreality are not always matched,
as anybody who listens to thispodcast can personally attest.
(09:54):
It's part of the thing thatmaintains that chronic or
disordered state.
So we are looking foracceptance-based strategies
which start from the premisethat what my body and mind does
are not necessarily designed tobe manually operated, controlled
or managed by me.
There are physiologicalprocesses, there are societal
(10:14):
norms, there's acculturation,there's all kinds of stuff going
on, there's just biology,there's neurobiology, there's
all of the things that got us tothis point and us I mean all of
us as human beings combine tomake humans susceptible to
respond to what they think is athreat.
In certain ways, when there'sno threat, that threat comes out
(10:35):
of order.
There's a threat detectedbefore there is actually danger.
That's why we call thesedisorders because they're out of
order and we wind up becomingafraid of our own bodies and
minds and then we hope that wecan try to somehow find a way to
control our bodies and minds,but we didn't evolve to be able
to do that, so we have to learnto say well, this is actually
happening right now.
(10:55):
I do suffer from chronic ordisordered anxiety.
I have developed a fear of myown bodily sensations or my own
thoughts or my own emotions, andwhat am I going to do with that
?
Now?
I could try to control that andbend it to my will and stop it
for all from happening and hackmy nervous system and learn to
regulate and rub my ear or myneck and try to activate my
(11:16):
vagus nerve and it's not reallyworking for me.
Or I'm going to have to be okaywith the idea that this is, in
fact, the situation that I findmyself in and now I have to work
on learning to respond to thisin a different way so that I can
learn through experience that Idon't have to fear my own body
and mind.
Those states are certainlyuncomfortable or even downright
terrifying at times.
Not trying to counter that,that is 100% true.
(11:38):
That subjective experience isvery disturbing.
However, we can in fact, learnthat if we don't stop everything
dead in its tracks to try todirectly operate on how we feel,
to make it change or stop it orgo away.
Well, we learn that even if wedon't do that, we come at the
other end of these experiencesand, while it may take a lot of
(12:00):
repetition and patience and timeto learn those lessons, you are
actually learning over time andteaching the lower part of your
brain responsible for managingthat threat detection and
response system, that it's okayto be anxious, it's okay to even
panic, it's okay to have scarythoughts that may be related to
OCD or generalized anxietydisorder or specific health
(12:22):
concerns.
All of those things are okay.
I don't have to stop everything.
Manage them, stop them, make itgo away, force myself to calm
down in order to be okay.
If I actually learn to donothing but accept that this is
a very uncomfortable situationthat I'm in, because my brain is
sort of stuck in a loop whereit keeps looking for threats and
then it creates the verythreats it's looking for.
(12:44):
If I don't accept thatsituation, I begin to approach
it in a different way, meaning,instead of fighting it.
I learned to work with it andthrough it, and that involves
challenging sometimes some verylongstanding beliefs that like,
no, you don't understand.
It's impossible.
If I panic, I have to go to theER I have to get an ice pack,
okay.
Well, those are control andmanagement strategies, whereas
(13:06):
an acceptance based strategywould suggest that you actually
don't have to do that and youwill still wind up okay.
So in an acceptance ormindfulness based strategy,
those things really cometogether.
I've talked about mindfulness alot lately.
But in an acceptance-basedstrategy we are not trying to
manage control, turn off thefeelings, hack the feelings,
(13:27):
trick the feelings.
Do three simple things thatinstantly calm you down or stop
you from being anxious.
We cannot just decide to not beanxious.
We can't choose positivitytechniques to just feel happy
even though we're terrified.
We can't do any of those things.
We have to let what happenshappens so that we can get
better at having thoseexperiences.
(13:47):
And when we discover that weare competent in the area of
handling our own internalexperiences even the scary ones
that we hate, well then therearen't so scary anymore over
time and things change.
If I don't have to be afraid ofmy own body and mind, then I
don't have to worry so muchabout trying to manage those
things to keep them from doingthings that I don't like.
(14:07):
Now I said in the very openingof this episode that you don't
have to take.
Where are we?
I don't know how long I've beengoing.
I'm going to try and keep thisunder 20 minutes.
You don't have to take my wordfor it.
I said I said your peers tend toagree.
Where does this come from?
I asked my Instagram audience.
There's about 91,000 peoplefollowing me on Instagram.
I asked my Instagram audiencetell me what the most valuable
(14:29):
principles of anxiety recoveryare for you and overwhelmingly,
the responses were acceptancebased.
There was a few people kind ofdoing the control thing, which
is totally understandable and,by the way, you always have
autonomy.
You can pick whatever strategyyou think is right for you.
I might not necessarily agreethat it's the most effective way
(14:49):
to approach it, but if youthink that control and
management is the best way foryou and avoidance counts as
control of management, then Iwould support you on that.
You get to make that choice.
You won't get a lot of you knowinformation on my channel or my
podcast that supports that sortof thing, but I do support your
ability or your right to choosethat path for sure, and I
respect that.
So, while a few, a very few ofthe responses were a little bit
(15:11):
control-based, and usually thoseindicate newer listeners or
newer followers on the socialplatforms who are just becoming
familiar with this type ofapproach.
And it's totally fine if itseems ridiculous to you because
you've never heard it before.
It may take you quite a longtime to get to the point where
it's like maybe there'ssomething to that.
It's okay if you want todismiss this out of hand because
it seems ridiculous.
Pretty much everybody thinksthat the first time, so it's
(15:33):
okay.
The vast majority of responsesnot only pointed at a shift to
acceptance-based strategies.
We use terms like willfultolerance or floating or
surrendering, or like workingthrough allowing, not fighting,
dropping resistance, learningthat I can handle these things.
The responses were just overand over the same responses, but
(15:54):
to me the most important thingwas the vast number of people in
this response set and, by theway, this isn't scientific, it's
a big audience, but there'snothing scientific about the
sampling, just full disclosureon that.
The vast majority of peoplealso took note of the fact that
they had to shift towardacceptance.
So there were many, manyresponses to my question that
included phrases like I had tolearn or coming to realize that,
(16:19):
or finally believing that itwas okay to have a scary thought
so many people in this responsesaid.
While they will echo in theirown real personal experiences
it's not just me talking.
This is actually anxious peoplewho are working on this
particular issue and trying toovercome it.
They are echoing the fact thatwhoa acceptance-based strategies
really are working on thisparticular issue and trying to
overcome it.
They are echoing the fact thatwhoa acceptance-based strategies
(16:40):
really are working better.
For me, most important for me inthis response set was that they
had to learn that, they had toembrace that.
Finally, they had to come tothat conclusion.
They had to give it a shot.
Some people were forced to doit because, for whatever reason,
they started panicking incircumstances where they
couldn't run away or couldn'tget their safe person and they
were forced to learn that likewow, if I just had to let it
(17:03):
play out, it would play out andI would be okay anyway.
So it's not just me, it's notjust the therapist, it's not
just the researchers, it's notjust those of us who have this
theoretical orientation actualanxious people and I will
include myself in that setbecause I used to be in the same
boat that you are probably intoday.
I got out of it using acceptanceand mindfulness-based
(17:25):
strategies.
Now, when I was doing the heavylifting in my recovery, I
didn't know that's what I wasdoing.
I know I was using acceptance.
I didn't really understand thatI was using principles of
mindfulness, but I usedmindfulness and acceptance-based
strategies to learn to workthrough my most triggered
circumstances that I used to beterrified of.
Now they don't scare me anymore.
So I frankly don't care whetherI panic or not.
(17:46):
I had that personal experience.
It aligns with my theoreticalorientation as a clinician and a
mental health professional.
But actual anxious people goingthrough this, this process, just
like you are right now, seem toecho like, yeah, when I, when I
do give that a shot,acceptance-based strategies a
shot, and I kind of turn awayfrom the control and management
(18:07):
stuff, things do begin to change.
Is this the biggest part of thecommunity which I'm starting to
hate that word but thecommunity of anxious people?
No, it's not.
Most people are still going tokind of follow along with the
control and management-basedstrategies, and I understand why
because it would seem to offerimmediate relief or instant
relief when you feel like it'surgent and you've got to feel
(18:28):
better.
Right this second I get thatSomebody tells you to get an ice
pack or tap on your cheek oractivate your vagus nerve is
offering you some form ofpossibly immediate relief from a
very scary circumstance.
So I totally don't blameanybody for going down that road
and social media platforms it'scertainly a lot easier to get
likes when you teach people howto calm down than it is trying
(18:48):
to teach people to try not tocalm down and learn from that.
So I get it.
You might be looking around andsay, yeah, but how come all
these giant accounts keeptalking about ice packs and 5, 4
, 3, 2, 1 and box breathing andthis technique and that
technique?
Well, because it's certainly alot easier sell and it's easier
to get algorithmic traction onpublic platforms advocating for
(19:09):
control and managementstrategies.
But when we look at the mostempirically validated, actual
real-world treatments forchronic and disordered anxiety
things like the third wave CBTtreatments, acceptance and
commitment therapy, mct, thatsort of stuff you're going to
see acceptance and mindfulness.
You're not going to see control.
In fact, if you have OCD andyou're going through exposure
(19:30):
and response prevention, whichis the gold standard treatment
for OCD right now forgive me,icbt folks, I know you're
working on it, but if you'regoing through ERP therapy for
OCD.
And, by the way, all exposureis exposure and response
prevention, not just for OCD.
One of the most interestingthings for clinicians to see
when they learn how to do ERP isthat at no point during that
(19:51):
response prevention do we teachcalming interventions.
We don't do it.
We have to.
The person has to learn thateven when they're triggered, if
they kind of don't do anything,that experience is going to rise
and fall naturally, becausethat's the way it happens.
So even therapists have a hardtime understanding if they don't
decide to specialize in thisthing that I specialize in and,
by the way, I'm not better thanthem, this is just my
(20:12):
specialization, that's all.
So even people who don'tspecialize in this, who are
well-intentioned, kind-hearted,wanting to help mental health
professionals, have a hard timeunderstanding that.
Like, wait, when do I teach theperson how to calm down?
Well, we don't teach them.
They have to learn that even ifthey don't forcibly try to like
turn the knobs and pull thelevers on their nervous systems
and their emotions and theirthoughts, they wind up okay
(20:34):
anyway.
So when you get into the mostempirically validated like
proven effective and I sayproven effective as they have
the best outcomes when looked aton a large scale, with the
least or the lowest relapserates and return to treatment
because people relapse.
These are acceptance-basedstrategies.
(20:54):
So again, we see it in ACT, wesee it in MCT, we see it in all
the third wave therapies.
They're really effective andunfortunately they are hard sell
.
But that is exactly why I talkabout them, because they work.
And when you are listening tothis podcast or watching this
YouTube channel or following meon social media, you keep
hearing this acceptance basedstrategy again and again and
(21:21):
again.
That's why people like me willtalk about that, but also your
peers that have adopted thisstrategy will in fact confirm,
by and large, like I, have amuch better chance of a positive
long-term outcome if I stoptrying to control, manage and
avoid and I go down theacceptance route.
All right.
So that is probably and I'm youknow you guys are going to
laugh if you follow along at allI'm not the one simple trick to
(21:43):
end anxiety forever, but I amgoing to suggest and I've said
this before on this YouTubechannel and this podcast that if
you can try and put your brainaround one concept just to get
the ball rolling and start tochange your circumstances and
move toward the change thatyou're hoping for, it would be
to at least consider that maybetrying to control or manage your
(22:05):
body and your mind and youremotions and your nervous system
things that tend to falloutside of our control because
they were not designed to becontrolled maybe is it at least
possible that that's not thebest way to do this and while it
might be the way that you wantto go, if you're looking for
immediate relief every timeyou're triggered on the long
term, if you're feelingfrustrated because you can't
seem to make any progress, well,know that your peers, other
(22:29):
anxious people, are theythemselves talking about how
acceptance-based strategiesreally started to change things
for them and help them moveforward in the recovery process.
So it's not just me, it's notjust the guy with the camera and
the microphone, it's not just atherapist like the guy with the
camera and the microphone.
It's actual anxious people whobegin to confirm this.
If you ask them, you would haveto go into again communities
(22:53):
we're going to talk about thatword very soon because there's a
lot of stuff that's starting tobother me about that word and
we'll get there.
But if you go into communitiesaround this podcast, the anxious
truth or disordered that I hostwith Josh Fletcher.
You can find that at disorderfm.
If you look at people who areengaged in certain online
recovery programs, like dare,michelle and I, either a great
therapist that run the DAREprogram they are an acceptance
(23:14):
and mindfulness-based program.
Like anybody who's involved inthe acceptance and mindfulness
stuff, anybody who's followingthe work of Dr Claire Weeks
online, where those peoplecongregate, the stories you will
hear are boy, it's really hardto do this because I have to be
brave and allow these reallyuncomfortable experiences.
But once I do learn how to dothat, things actually do start
(23:35):
to improve.
So if you're still trying tohang on to like please tell me a
way to prevent my panic attacksor instantly stop them when
they happen, for instance, youmight consider like well, maybe
I have to look for alternativestrategies here, and those
alternative strategies would beacceptance and mindfulness based
.
And if you look intocommunities or online gatherings
of people who are using thoseapproaches, you will start to
(23:57):
understand like oh wait, thesepeople are actually starting to
make some progress, it wouldappear, although they will
always acknowledge, and I willalways acknowledge it's hard to
accept things that we don't likeand not instantly fight against
them, right?
So that is probably the numberone thing that you really have
to think about.
I have to pick between goingtoward control and management or
(24:18):
going toward acceptance andnavigation in a mindful way.
One gives me a better chance ofa long-term outcome, according
to the data and according toreal-world experience.
I have to learn over time thatit's okay to be triggered, it's
okay to be anxious, it's okay tohave scary thoughts.
I don't have to manuallyoperate them and fix them to be
okay.
Or the other side is, I have tolearn how to calm down anytime
(24:40):
I don't feel good and I can dothat, but it feels like I have
to keep doing that, and thenthat's just like a lifelong
coping strategy that tends toget in the way.
So again, everybody gets topick whatever path they want to
take.
There's nothing wrong with that, but at least consider that
it's not just me.
Your peers will tell you thatacceptance-based strategies seem
to have a better chance ofproducing a positive outcome and
(25:01):
producing a life closer to theone that you would rather be
living than an anxious life,right, so important.
This is the thing.
I will close with one othersort of concept when it comes to
acceptance versus control andmanagement, it will be tempting
very often and many people windup a little bit stuck in this no
man's land to say, oh yeah,okay, cool, this guy seems to
(25:22):
know what he's talking about.
Or like yeah, when I do theresearch, there's a ton of data
that seems to support what thisdude is saying.
Cool, and I'm going to try todo acceptance.
Do acceptance.
We can talk about that someother day, because it's not a
thing we do.
But all right, I'm going to tryand drop all my resistance and
try to accept my anxiety, butI'm also going to try to do that
while I'm still tapping on mycheekbones and carrying ice
packs around and always knowingwhere my safe person is.
(25:45):
The tough thing about that isyou almost can't do both of
those things.
We're either allowing or we'renot allowing.
We are either dropping ourresistance or we are still
resisting.
If you find that you're in thatmiddle ground, we're like, yes,
I get it.
I hear you Drew, I hear youJosh, I hear you Kim, I hear you
Claire Weeks.
You know Dr Weeks.
Unfortunately he's passed formany years now.
But whoever Russ Harris,stephen Hayes, I hear you all of
(26:08):
the you know these acceptancepeople.
I'm doing that, but I'm alsotrying to manage my symptoms and
manage my thoughts and calmmyself down with special
techniques and not be triggered.
Because I do these specialhealth techniques that are meant
to keep me calm and regulate mynervous system, there can be
some stagnation Because thoseare, in fact, control and
management strategies, which arereally, in the end, avoidance
(26:29):
strategies.
So if you're trying to acceptyour anxiety and learn that you
can in fact handle being reallyanxious and uncomfortable
because of your internal state,but at the same time you're
trying to manually operate yourinternal state to try to not
feel it or turn it downinstantly, well, what are we
actually learning?
So sometimes we wind up withcompeting objectives and we try
(26:51):
to put together acceptance andmanagement-based strategies.
They don't tend to fit togetherall that well.
Again, that's not an indictmentof your choice to use
management or control strategiesor avoidance strategies.
You get to pick those.
There's nothing wrong with that.
I wouldn't judge you negativelyfor that, but just know that
it's really difficult to try andput these two things together.
You almost got to pick one orthe other.
(27:12):
So that is episode 314 of theAnxious Truth, wrapping it up, a
discussion of acceptance being,I think, a better choice or
superior choice than managementand control, why that is what
the data shows us and how groupsof your peers, when asked, will
sort of validate this.
Just that it's a hard sell towant to go down the acceptance
(27:34):
route and I get that.
So I hope you have found ithelpful in some way, shape or
form.
I'll come back again in twoweeks with another podcast
episode.
I'm not really sure what I'mgoing to talk about, but I will.
I'm actually thinking of doinga driving anxiety episode.
So if you want to use the linkin the podcast description to
send me a text message to sayyay or nay on driving anxiety or
YouTube comments, I will listen.
(27:55):
I promise.
I think driving anxiety talkingabout specifically like what
does exposure look like fordriving anxiety, I might do that
episode, but that'll be in twoweeks, we'll see.
I'll do that one, but don't doit in two weeks.
I'll do it at some point.
If you're listening to thepodcast on a platform that lets
you rate or review the podcastand you really like what you're
hearing here, leave a five starrating because it helps the
podcast get discovered by morepeople and if you really, really
(28:17):
like it.
Maybe write a quick review thatsays why you like it, because
that helps even more people findthe podcast, which helps them
get the help that they hopefullyneed or, you know, kind of go
in the right direction, which iswhy I do this.
To begin with, there are moregoodies on my website at
theanxioustruthcom, so you don'thave to stop with just this
(28:39):
YouTube channel or just thispodcast.
Go over to my website and checkout what else is there and what
else can I tell you.
Just remember, no matter whatstep you take today that moves
you away from retreat and towardmoving through your fears, even
if it's the tiniest littlechange, dropping a tiny little
safety behavior or doing onelittle thing that you thought
you surely couldn't do, anytimeyou take that step it actually
counts, as long as you can learnsomething from that experience.
Take it with you into the nextexperience.
(29:01):
There are no wrong experiencesin anxiety recovery, only wins
or learning experiences.
Try to hang on to that.
Be nice to yourself.
You don't want to criticizeyourself for failing or being
too weak.
None of that is true.
Hang in there.
One moment at a time, oneexperience at a time.
You get there.
I didn't think you could, Iwouldn't be doing this.
Thanks for hanging out and Iwill see you, I guess online, or
(29:23):
I'll see you in two weeks.
Take care, we'll see you nexttime.
When struggling to overcome chronic and disordered
states of anxiety,acceptance-based strategies are
superior to control andmanagement-based strategies, but
don't take my word for it.
A large number of your peersseem to agree, so we're going to
talk about that this week onthe Anxious Truth.
Hello everybody, welcome backto the Anxious Truth.
(00:22):
This is episode 314 of thepodcast we are recording in
March of 2025.
In case.
This is episode 314 of thepodcast we are recording in
March of 2025.
In case you are watching orlistening in the future, this
week on the Anxious Truth, we'regoing to talk about the
difference betweenacceptance-based strategies and
control-slash-management-basedstrategies when we're dealing
with chronic and disorderedstates of anxiety.
So stick around for that.
If you're new to the AnxiousTruth, this is the podcast where
(00:44):
we talk about all thingsanxiety, anxiety disorders and
anxiety recovery.
I am Drew Linsalata, creatorand host of this fine podcast or
I hope it's a fine podcast orthis YouTube channel, depending
on where you're consuming.
I am, as of March of 2025, apre-licensed therapist,
practicing under clinicalsupervision, specializing in the
treatment of anxiety andanxiety disorders.
I'm a three-time author on thistopic.
(01:10):
I am a podcaster, not onlyhosting the Anxious Truth, but
also co-hosting Disordered withmy buddy, josh Fletcher.
I am a past sufferer of thesevery same problems that I talk
about for many, many years of mylife, but much better now,
completely recovered for many,many years now as well.
Psychoeducator and advocate,social media guy, and I am going
to try to help as best I canwithin a one-to-many helping
model of either a podcastepisode or a YouTube video.
If you're new to the AnxiousTruth and you just stumbled upon
(01:32):
us today, I hope you find whatyou find here helpful or useful
or applicable in some way.
Of course, if you're areturning listener or viewer,
thanks.
I appreciate you stopping byand hanging out for another 20
minutes or so, whatever we'regoing to do today.
So we're going to talk aboutthe difference between
acceptance and controlstrategies when you're dealing
with anxiety and anxietydisorders.
(01:53):
Chronic and disordered states ofanxiety, which, I have to
remind you just quickly, is alittle bit different than just I
have anxiety.
Right, we talk about I haveanxiety all the time.
Everybody talks about it, it'sall over the place.
We're talking about internallygenerated states of anxiety.
There's a difference betweenI'm really anxious because my
boss is stressing me out or I'mreally anxious because I have
(02:13):
final exams coming up.
I'm really anxious because myneighbor and I are in a conflict
.
That's one type of anxiety.
Here, on the Anxious Truth,we're always talking about the
internally generated anxietythat results from being anxious
about being anxious.
It doesn't matter why you'reanxious, you only care that
you're anxious.
The anxiety itself becomes themost important thing.
(02:33):
The scary thoughts, the senseof distress, the discomfort.
That's what we're talking abouthere.
So we call that disorderedanxiety.
Some people might call itchronic anxiety and that's what
we're addressing.
When you're in this situationwhere you feel like you're
uncontrollably anxious all thetime for a variety of reasons,
that might mean panic attacks,which leads to agoraphobia.
It could be generalized anxietydisorder constant, persistent
(02:54):
states of overthinking andruminating and worrying.
It could be OCD.
It could be health anxiety.
There's a million differentways we can get to this chronic
or disordered place.
But when you're struggling withthat the most common way to try
to address that and if youspend a lot of time scrolling
around on YouTube or listeningto podcasts or doing the endless
scroll on platforms likeInstagram or TikTok, you're
(03:15):
going to see a lot of peopleadvocating for control and
management-based strategies.
So when you hear things likeregulating your nervous system,
nervous system regulation,no-transcript forever.
(03:46):
Or instantly calm down, orthese are ways to like eliminate
anxiety forever.
You are being taught aboutcontrol and management based
strategies.
Now that makes common sensebecause if you are an externally
sort of normally anxious personand you understand that you are
anxious because of somethingthat's happening that's
stressing you from outside yourskin, well, yeah, those might be
(04:08):
good stress management andanxiety management techniques
that we can use to help you,like deal with it and move
through it a little more so youcan stay focused on solving the
problem at hand or getting safeor getting out of the stressful
situation or whatever it happensto be.
But when we are in a chronicallyor disordered state of anxiety,
when you cannot get away fromyour own internal experiences,
(04:29):
like bodily sensations and scarythoughts, especially when those
are being triggered by a fearresponse, and your body and mind
are just doing what it'sdesigned to do trying to control
and manage that experience byacting directly on symptoms and
thoughts and trying to useinterventions or techniques or
hacks or tricks designed toprevent the triggering of
(04:51):
anxiety or instantly fix it,manipulate it, control it or
stop it when you do getuncomfortable, tends to be
counterproductive and while youmight find some strategies that
are helpful on the short term,sometimes you will also probably
find that they don't help onthe long term.
And even if you can find somestrategies that are helpful on
the short term, sometimes youwill also probably find that
they don't help on the long term.
And even if you can find somecoping strategies that are based
(05:11):
on control and management thatcan get you through anxious
moments, you have to keep usingthem again and again and again,
and you may wind up in asituation where you're wondering
I don't understand why I'mstill afraid to panic.
I don't understand why I stillhave OCD.
I don't understand why I'mstill afraid to panic.
I don't understand why I stillhave OCD.
I don't understand why I'mstill so worried and ruminate
about my health all the time.
So we have to look at theapplication of control and
(05:33):
management strategies in thecase of chronic and disordered
anxiety and maybe give it theside eye a little bit, because
those things tend not to work.
Now what we're talking aboutand what you hear people like me
talk about all the time peoplewho specialize in the treatment
of chronic and disorderedanxiety we are relying on
evidence-based and I sayevidence-based.
Not to be a snob or a sciencesnob, but these types of
(05:57):
treatments or approaches tochronic and disordered anxiety
that are based on things likeacceptance and mindfulness have
far better consistent outcomesfor the people who employ
acceptance and mindfulness-basedstrategies, as opposed to
people who rely on avoidance,control or management-based
strategies.
We just have too much data overmany, many years that shows us
(06:18):
that Now, acceptance andmindfulness those are sort of
the hallmarks of the mostcurrent forms of most effective,
empirically validatedtreatments for anxiety disorder
or chronic anxiety disorders orchronic anxiety, but they have
been baked into things likecognitive behavioral therapy for
a long time.
Just that, in the past, evencognitive behavioral therapies
(06:39):
were a little bit control-esque.
If you will, let's show youthat your thoughts are
irrational and then you canchange them, which, as it turns
out, doesn't really work allthat well.
Also, and that was a little bittoo control-heavy and wound up
with a lot of high relapse rates, and people had a hard time
maintaining a level of recoverythat they bound to, trying to
control their thoughts orinstantly change their thoughts
(07:02):
or change their beliefs justbecause they know that the old
beliefs were irrational right.
So we are really looking towardacceptance and
mindfulness-based strategies asthe most effective ways to deal
with these things.
This is a hard sell, because itis very difficult to convince
somebody who is incrediblyuncomfortable, afraid or feeling
distressed and feeling a littlebit worn down and hopeless by
(07:22):
that, that the way out of thatis to learn to accept the
situation we are never talkingabout.
This is where it's reallyimportant to understand the
difference between internallyand externally generated anxiety
.
If it's an external threat, wedo not accept external threats,
and a threat can be defined in alot of different ways.
If you are getting stressed outover things that you simply
(07:44):
cannot change in the world butthat don't pose an immediate
threat to you, well now we havelike a generalized anxiety
disorder kind of thing.
Or we have that overthinking,overplanning sort of control
freak thing.
We all understand the termcontrol freak, but if you are
trying to control things thatyou actually can in fact
interact with, that are makingyour life worse and stressing
(08:05):
you out, then that's a good plan, right.
So the issue here is when we'retrying to apply control and
management in situations wherethey were never meant to be
applied Control and managementin the context of our internal
experiences, like thoughts oremotions or beliefs or ideas or
even physical sensations which Iknow we don't always include
physical sensations technicallyin the realm of internal
(08:28):
experiences but it's importantto recognize that when we're
trying to apply control andmanagement approaches to things
inside of us that were simplynot designed to be controlled or
managed or manually operated,your nervous system doesn't
actually have levers and knobsthat you can manually operate.
I don't care what your favoritepodcast, biohacker, tells you
(08:49):
is true.
That simply doesn't appear towork in, at least in our
population.
When we try to apply managementand control strategies, things
tend to go off the rails, theybackfire, and then you can wind
up feeling really frustrated.
When we talk about accepting,remember, since it's an internal
state that we fear or we findso uncomfortable, but internal
states are not dangerous.
When we talk about acceptance,what we're learning to accept or
(09:12):
deal with and navigate throughor respond to more productively
is a state where we are veryuncomfortable or maybe really
afraid, but we are not in anyactual danger.
There really is no threat thatwe're trying to protect
ourselves from or get away from.
The perceived threat comes frominside us and while that can be
every bit as uncomfortable,scary and triggering, no doubt
(09:33):
about that.
We have to acknowledge the factthat we're not asking anybody
to use acceptance-basedstrategies in the course of
chronic and disordered anxietyto accept an actual threat or
accept actual danger.
It just feels like you'retrying to accept a dangerous
situation, but feeling like andreality are not always matched,
as anybody who listens to thispodcast can personally attest.
(09:54):
It's part of the thing thatmaintains that chronic or
disordered state.
So we are looking foracceptance-based strategies
which start from the premisethat what my body and mind does
are not necessarily designed tobe manually operated, controlled
or managed by me.
There are physiologicalprocesses, there are societal
(10:14):
norms, there's acculturation,there's all kinds of stuff going
on, there's just biology,there's neurobiology, there's
all of the things that got us tothis point and us I mean all of
us as human beings combine tomake humans susceptible to
respond to what they think is athreat.
In certain ways, when there'sno threat, that threat comes out
(10:35):
of order.
There's a threat detectedbefore there is actually danger.
That's why we call thesedisorders because they're out of
order and we wind up becomingafraid of our own bodies and
minds and then we hope that wecan try to somehow find a way to
control our bodies and minds,but we didn't evolve to be able
to do that, so we have to learnto say well, this is actually
happening right now.
(10:55):
I do suffer from chronic ordisordered anxiety.
I have developed a fear of myown bodily sensations or my own
thoughts or my own emotions, andwhat am I going to do with that
?
Now?
I could try to control that andbend it to my will and stop it
for all from happening and hackmy nervous system and learn to
regulate and rub my ear or myneck and try to activate my
(11:16):
vagus nerve and it's not reallyworking for me.
Or I'm going to have to be okaywith the idea that this is, in
fact, the situation that I findmyself in and now I have to work
on learning to respond to thisin a different way so that I can
learn through experience that Idon't have to fear my own body
and mind.
Those states are certainlyuncomfortable or even downright
terrifying at times.
Not trying to counter that,that is 100% true.
(11:38):
That subjective experience isvery disturbing.
However, we can in fact, learnthat if we don't stop everything
dead in its tracks to try todirectly operate on how we feel,
to make it change or stop it orgo away.
Well, we learn that even if wedon't do that, we come at the
other end of these experiencesand, while it may take a lot of
(12:00):
repetition and patience and timeto learn those lessons, you are
actually learning over time andteaching the lower part of your
brain responsible for managingthat threat detection and
response system, that it's okayto be anxious, it's okay to even
panic, it's okay to have scarythoughts that may be related to
OCD or generalized anxietydisorder or specific health
(12:22):
concerns.
All of those things are okay.
I don't have to stop everything.
Manage them, stop them, make itgo away, force myself to calm
down in order to be okay.
If I actually learn to donothing but accept that this is
a very uncomfortable situationthat I'm in, because my brain is
sort of stuck in a loop whereit keeps looking for threats and
then it creates the verythreats it's looking for.
(12:44):
If I don't accept thatsituation, I begin to approach
it in a different way, meaning,instead of fighting it.
I learned to work with it andthrough it, and that involves
challenging sometimes some verylongstanding beliefs that like,
no, you don't understand.
It's impossible.
If I panic, I have to go to theER I have to get an ice pack,
okay.
Well, those are control andmanagement strategies, whereas
(13:06):
an acceptance based strategywould suggest that you actually
don't have to do that and youwill still wind up okay.
So in an acceptance ormindfulness based strategy,
those things really cometogether.
I've talked about mindfulness alot lately.
But in an acceptance-basedstrategy we are not trying to
manage control, turn off thefeelings, hack the feelings,
(13:27):
trick the feelings.
Do three simple things thatinstantly calm you down or stop
you from being anxious.
We cannot just decide to not beanxious.
We can't choose positivitytechniques to just feel happy
even though we're terrified.
We can't do any of those things.
We have to let what happenshappens so that we can get
better at having thoseexperiences.
(13:47):
And when we discover that weare competent in the area of
handling our own internalexperiences even the scary ones
that we hate, well then therearen't so scary anymore over
time and things change.
If I don't have to be afraid ofmy own body and mind, then I
don't have to worry so muchabout trying to manage those
things to keep them from doingthings that I don't like.
(14:07):
Now I said in the very openingof this episode that you don't
have to take.
Where are we?
I don't know how long I've beengoing.
I'm going to try and keep thisunder 20 minutes.
You don't have to take my wordfor it.
I said I said your peers tend toagree.
Where does this come from?
I asked my Instagram audience.
There's about 91,000 peoplefollowing me on Instagram.
I asked my Instagram audiencetell me what the most valuable
(14:29):
principles of anxiety recoveryare for you and overwhelmingly,
the responses were acceptancebased.
There was a few people kind ofdoing the control thing, which
is totally understandable and,by the way, you always have
autonomy.
You can pick whatever strategyyou think is right for you.
I might not necessarily agreethat it's the most effective way
(14:49):
to approach it, but if youthink that control and
management is the best way foryou and avoidance counts as
control of management, then Iwould support you on that.
You get to make that choice.
You won't get a lot of you knowinformation on my channel or my
podcast that supports that sortof thing, but I do support your
ability or your right to choosethat path for sure, and I
respect that.
So, while a few, a very few ofthe responses were a little bit
(15:11):
control-based, and usually thoseindicate newer listeners or
newer followers on the socialplatforms who are just becoming
familiar with this type ofapproach.
And it's totally fine if itseems ridiculous to you because
you've never heard it before.
It may take you quite a longtime to get to the point where
it's like maybe there'ssomething to that.
It's okay if you want todismiss this out of hand because
it seems ridiculous.
Pretty much everybody thinksthat the first time, so it's
(15:33):
okay.
The vast majority of responsesnot only pointed at a shift to
acceptance-based strategies.
We use terms like willfultolerance or floating or
surrendering, or like workingthrough allowing, not fighting,
dropping resistance, learningthat I can handle these things.
The responses were just overand over the same responses, but
(15:54):
to me the most important thingwas the vast number of people in
this response set and, by theway, this isn't scientific, it's
a big audience, but there'snothing scientific about the
sampling, just full disclosureon that.
The vast majority of peoplealso took note of the fact that
they had to shift towardacceptance.
So there were many, manyresponses to my question that
included phrases like I had tolearn or coming to realize that,
(16:19):
or finally believing that itwas okay to have a scary thought
so many people in this responsesaid.
While they will echo in theirown real personal experiences
it's not just me talking.
This is actually anxious peoplewho are working on this
particular issue and trying toovercome it.
They are echoing the fact thatwhoa acceptance-based strategies
really are working on thisparticular issue and trying to
overcome it.
They are echoing the fact thatwhoa acceptance-based strategies
(16:40):
really are working better.
For me, most important for me inthis response set was that they
had to learn that, they had toembrace that.
Finally, they had to come tothat conclusion.
They had to give it a shot.
Some people were forced to doit because, for whatever reason,
they started panicking incircumstances where they
couldn't run away or couldn'tget their safe person and they
were forced to learn that likewow, if I just had to let it
(17:03):
play out, it would play out andI would be okay anyway.
So it's not just me, it's notjust the therapist, it's not
just the researchers, it's notjust those of us who have this
theoretical orientation actualanxious people and I will
include myself in that setbecause I used to be in the same
boat that you are probably intoday.
I got out of it using acceptanceand mindfulness-based
(17:25):
strategies.
Now, when I was doing the heavylifting in my recovery, I
didn't know that's what I wasdoing.
I know I was using acceptance.
I didn't really understand thatI was using principles of
mindfulness, but I usedmindfulness and acceptance-based
strategies to learn to workthrough my most triggered
circumstances that I used to beterrified of.
Now they don't scare me anymore.
So I frankly don't care whetherI panic or not.
(17:46):
I had that personal experience.
It aligns with my theoreticalorientation as a clinician and a
mental health professional.
But actual anxious people goingthrough this, this process, just
like you are right now, seem toecho like, yeah, when I, when I
do give that a shot,acceptance-based strategies a
shot, and I kind of turn awayfrom the control and management
(18:07):
stuff, things do begin to change.
Is this the biggest part of thecommunity which I'm starting to
hate that word but thecommunity of anxious people?
No, it's not.
Most people are still going tokind of follow along with the
control and management-basedstrategies, and I understand why
because it would seem to offerimmediate relief or instant
relief when you feel like it'surgent and you've got to feel
(18:28):
better.
Right this second I get thatSomebody tells you to get an ice
pack or tap on your cheek oractivate your vagus nerve is
offering you some form ofpossibly immediate relief from a
very scary circumstance.
So I totally don't blameanybody for going down that road
and social media platforms it'scertainly a lot easier to get
likes when you teach people howto calm down than it is trying
(18:48):
to teach people to try not tocalm down and learn from that.
So I get it.
You might be looking around andsay, yeah, but how come all
these giant accounts keeptalking about ice packs and 5, 4
, 3, 2, 1 and box breathing andthis technique and that
technique?
Well, because it's certainly alot easier sell and it's easier
to get algorithmic traction onpublic platforms advocating for
(19:09):
control and managementstrategies.
But when we look at the mostempirically validated, actual
real-world treatments forchronic and disordered anxiety
things like the third wave CBTtreatments, acceptance and
commitment therapy, mct, thatsort of stuff you're going to
see acceptance and mindfulness.
You're not going to see control.
In fact, if you have OCD andyou're going through exposure
(19:30):
and response prevention, whichis the gold standard treatment
for OCD right now forgive me,icbt folks, I know you're
working on it, but if you'regoing through ERP therapy for
OCD.
And, by the way, all exposureis exposure and response
prevention, not just for OCD.
One of the most interestingthings for clinicians to see
when they learn how to do ERP isthat at no point during that
(19:51):
response prevention do we teachcalming interventions.
We don't do it.
We have to.
The person has to learn thateven when they're triggered, if
they kind of don't do anything,that experience is going to rise
and fall naturally, becausethat's the way it happens.
So even therapists have a hardtime understanding if they don't
decide to specialize in thisthing that I specialize in and,
by the way, I'm not better thanthem, this is just my
(20:12):
specialization, that's all.
So even people who don'tspecialize in this, who are
well-intentioned, kind-hearted,wanting to help mental health
professionals, have a hard timeunderstanding that.
Like, wait, when do I teach theperson how to calm down?
Well, we don't teach them.
They have to learn that even ifthey don't forcibly try to like
turn the knobs and pull thelevers on their nervous systems
and their emotions and theirthoughts, they wind up okay
(20:34):
anyway.
So when you get into the mostempirically validated like
proven effective and I sayproven effective as they have
the best outcomes when looked aton a large scale, with the
least or the lowest relapserates and return to treatment
because people relapse.
These are acceptance-basedstrategies.
(20:54):
So again, we see it in ACT, wesee it in MCT, we see it in all
the third wave therapies.
They're really effective andunfortunately they are hard sell
.
But that is exactly why I talkabout them, because they work.
And when you are listening tothis podcast or watching this
YouTube channel or following meon social media, you keep
hearing this acceptance basedstrategy again and again and
(21:21):
again.
That's why people like me willtalk about that, but also your
peers that have adopted thisstrategy will in fact confirm,
by and large, like I, have amuch better chance of a positive
long-term outcome if I stoptrying to control, manage and
avoid and I go down theacceptance route.
All right.
So that is probably and I'm youknow you guys are going to
laugh if you follow along at allI'm not the one simple trick to
(21:43):
end anxiety forever, but I amgoing to suggest and I've said
this before on this YouTubechannel and this podcast that if
you can try and put your brainaround one concept just to get
the ball rolling and start tochange your circumstances and
move toward the change thatyou're hoping for, it would be
to at least consider that maybetrying to control or manage your
(22:05):
body and your mind and youremotions and your nervous system
things that tend to falloutside of our control because
they were not designed to becontrolled maybe is it at least
possible that that's not thebest way to do this and while it
might be the way that you wantto go, if you're looking for
immediate relief every timeyou're triggered on the long
term, if you're feelingfrustrated because you can't
seem to make any progress, well,know that your peers, other
(22:29):
anxious people, are theythemselves talking about how
acceptance-based strategiesreally started to change things
for them and help them moveforward in the recovery process.
So it's not just me, it's notjust the guy with the camera and
the microphone, it's not just atherapist like the guy with the
camera and the microphone.
It's actual anxious people whobegin to confirm this.
If you ask them, you would haveto go into again communities
(22:53):
we're going to talk about thatword very soon because there's a
lot of stuff that's starting tobother me about that word and
we'll get there.
But if you go into communitiesaround this podcast, the anxious
truth or disordered that I hostwith Josh Fletcher.
You can find that at disorderfm.
If you look at people who areengaged in certain online
recovery programs, like dare,michelle and I, either a great
therapist that run the DAREprogram they are an acceptance
(23:14):
and mindfulness-based program.
Like anybody who's involved inthe acceptance and mindfulness
stuff, anybody who's followingthe work of Dr Claire Weeks
online, where those peoplecongregate, the stories you will
hear are boy, it's really hardto do this because I have to be
brave and allow these reallyuncomfortable experiences.
But once I do learn how to dothat, things actually do start
(23:35):
to improve.
So if you're still trying tohang on to like please tell me a
way to prevent my panic attacksor instantly stop them when
they happen, for instance, youmight consider like well, maybe
I have to look for alternativestrategies here, and those
alternative strategies would beacceptance and mindfulness based
.
And if you look intocommunities or online gatherings
of people who are using thoseapproaches, you will start to
(23:57):
understand like oh wait, thesepeople are actually starting to
make some progress, it wouldappear, although they will
always acknowledge, and I willalways acknowledge it's hard to
accept things that we don't likeand not instantly fight against
them, right?
So that is probably the numberone thing that you really have
to think about.
I have to pick between goingtoward control and management or
(24:18):
going toward acceptance andnavigation in a mindful way.
One gives me a better chance ofa long-term outcome, according
to the data and according toreal-world experience.
I have to learn over time thatit's okay to be triggered, it's
okay to be anxious, it's okay tohave scary thoughts.
I don't have to manuallyoperate them and fix them to be
okay.
Or the other side is, I have tolearn how to calm down anytime
(24:40):
I don't feel good and I can dothat, but it feels like I have
to keep doing that, and thenthat's just like a lifelong
coping strategy that tends toget in the way.
So again, everybody gets topick whatever path they want to
take.
There's nothing wrong with that, but at least consider that
it's not just me.
Your peers will tell you thatacceptance-based strategies seem
to have a better chance ofproducing a positive outcome and
(25:01):
producing a life closer to theone that you would rather be
living than an anxious life,right, so important.
This is the thing.
I will close with one othersort of concept when it comes to
acceptance versus control andmanagement, it will be tempting
very often and many people windup a little bit stuck in this no
man's land to say, oh yeah,okay, cool, this guy seems to
(25:22):
know what he's talking about.
Or like yeah, when I do theresearch, there's a ton of data
that seems to support what thisdude is saying.
Cool, and I'm going to try todo acceptance.
Do acceptance.
We can talk about that someother day, because it's not a
thing we do.
But all right, I'm going to tryand drop all my resistance and
try to accept my anxiety, butI'm also going to try to do that
while I'm still tapping on mycheekbones and carrying ice
packs around and always knowingwhere my safe person is.
(25:45):
The tough thing about that isyou almost can't do both of
those things.
We're either allowing or we'renot allowing.
We are either dropping ourresistance or we are still
resisting.
If you find that you're in thatmiddle ground, we're like, yes,
I get it.
I hear you Drew, I hear youJosh, I hear you Kim, I hear you
Claire Weeks.
You know Dr Weeks.
Unfortunately he's passed formany years now.
But whoever Russ Harris,stephen Hayes, I hear you all of
(26:08):
the you know these acceptancepeople.
I'm doing that, but I'm alsotrying to manage my symptoms and
manage my thoughts and calmmyself down with special
techniques and not be triggered.
Because I do these specialhealth techniques that are meant
to keep me calm and regulate mynervous system, there can be
some stagnation Because thoseare, in fact, control and
management strategies, which arereally, in the end, avoidance
(26:29):
strategies.
So if you're trying to acceptyour anxiety and learn that you
can in fact handle being reallyanxious and uncomfortable
because of your internal state,but at the same time you're
trying to manually operate yourinternal state to try to not
feel it or turn it downinstantly, well, what are we
actually learning?
So sometimes we wind up withcompeting objectives and we try
(26:51):
to put together acceptance andmanagement-based strategies.
They don't tend to fit togetherall that well.
Again, that's not an indictmentof your choice to use
management or control strategiesor avoidance strategies.
You get to pick those.
There's nothing wrong with that.
I wouldn't judge you negativelyfor that, but just know that
it's really difficult to try andput these two things together.
You almost got to pick one orthe other.
(27:12):
So that is episode 314 of theAnxious Truth, wrapping it up, a
discussion of acceptance being,I think, a better choice or
superior choice than managementand control, why that is what
the data shows us and how groupsof your peers, when asked, will
sort of validate this.
Just that it's a hard sell towant to go down the acceptance
(27:34):
route and I get that.
So I hope you have found ithelpful in some way, shape or
form.
I'll come back again in twoweeks with another podcast
episode.
I'm not really sure what I'mgoing to talk about, but I will.
I'm actually thinking of doinga driving anxiety episode.
So if you want to use the linkin the podcast description to
send me a text message to sayyay or nay on driving anxiety or
YouTube comments, I will listen.
(27:55):
I promise.
I think driving anxiety talkingabout specifically like what
does exposure look like fordriving anxiety, I might do that
episode, but that'll be in twoweeks, we'll see.
I'll do that one, but don't doit in two weeks.
I'll do it at some point.
If you're listening to thepodcast on a platform that lets
you rate or review the podcastand you really like what you're
hearing here, leave a five starrating because it helps the
podcast get discovered by morepeople and if you really, really
(28:17):
like it.
Maybe write a quick review thatsays why you like it, because
that helps even more people findthe podcast, which helps them
get the help that they hopefullyneed or, you know, kind of go
in the right direction, which iswhy I do this.
To begin with, there are moregoodies on my website at
theanxioustruthcom, so you don'thave to stop with just this
(28:39):
YouTube channel or just thispodcast.
Go over to my website and checkout what else is there and what
else can I tell you.
Just remember, no matter whatstep you take today that moves
you away from retreat and towardmoving through your fears, even
if it's the tiniest littlechange, dropping a tiny little
safety behavior or doing onelittle thing that you thought
you surely couldn't do, anytimeyou take that step it actually
counts, as long as you can learnsomething from that experience.
Take it with you into the nextexperience.
(29:01):
There are no wrong experiencesin anxiety recovery, only wins
or learning experiences.
Try to hang on to that.
Be nice to yourself.
You don't want to criticizeyourself for failing or being
too weak.
None of that is true.
Hang in there.
One moment at a time, oneexperience at a time.
You get there.
I didn't think you could, Iwouldn't be doing this.
Thanks for hanging out and Iwill see you, I guess online, or
(29:23):
I'll see you in two weeks.
Take care, we'll see you nexttime.
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