November 6, 2024 • 26 mins
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Why is learning to trust your body again so difficult in the face of chronic or disordered anxiety? What if chronic anxiety could make you feel as disconnected from your body as a chronic illness might?
Discover the surprising parallels between the two as we unravel the complex relationship anxiety sufferers have with their physical selves. This week on The Anxious Truth we're talking about how anxious people learn to fear their bodies, and lose trust in their bodies. This can have a huge negative impact on life in general and if we're not careful, we can wind up feeling powerles, hopeless, and generally depressed.
We're going to talk about how this happens, and a few pathways to re-building trust in your body through action. We'll talk about exposure therapy, interoceptive exposures, purposeful exercise, and even gentle movement in the form of yoga, or Tai-Chi. We don't have to climb mountains to rebuild trust in our bodies. Any experience that shows us that we're not fragile or easily breakable can help get that job done.
For full show notes on this episode:
https://theanxioustruth.com/304
Support The Anxious Truth: If you find the podcast helpful and want to support my work, you can buy me a coffee. Other ways to support my work like buying a book or signing up for a low cost workshop can be found on my website. None of this is never required, but always appreciated!
Interested in doing therapy with me? For more information on working with me directly to overcome your anxiety, follow this link.
Disclaimer: The Anxious Truth is not therapy or a replacement for therapy. Listening to The Anxious Truth does not create a therapeutic relationship between you and the host or guests of the podcast. Information here is provided for psychoeducational purposes. As always, when you have questions about your own well-being, please consult your mental health and/or medical care providers. If you are having a mental health crisis, always reach out immediately for in-person help.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
This week on the Anxious Truth.
We're talking about whathappens when an anxious person
loses the ability to trust theirown body, so let's get at it
right now.
Hello everybody, welcome backto the Anxious Truth.
(00:23):
This is the podcast that coversall things anxiety, anxiety
disorders and anxiety recovery.
This is episode 304.
We are recording in November of2024, in case you are listening
in the future, I am DrewLinsalata, creator and host of
the Anxious Truth.
I am a therapist practicingunder supervision as of November
2024 in the state of New York,specializing in the treatment of
(00:44):
anxiety and anxiety disorders.
I'm a three-time author on thistopic, a social media guy, an
advocate, an educator and,unfortunately, a former sufferer
of things like panic disorder,agoraphobia, ocd and depression
for many years of my life, onand off, but doing better now.
Thank you very much.
If this is your first time here, welcome.
I hope you find things usefulin this episode and maybe others
(01:05):
, if you check it out.
Of course, if you are areturning listener or viewer on
YouTube and, by the way, ifyou're viewing on YouTube this
week, I'm sorry because you'renot viewing on YouTube this week
there's no video, just a stillimage.
But if you are a returningviewer or listener, welcome back
.
I hope you find this episodehelpful and thank you for
spending time with me again andsupporting the work that I do.
So today we are going to talkabout how an anxious person who
(01:28):
I would define as somebody who'sdealing with chronic or
disordered states of anxiety howthat person can, over time, not
only learn to fear their ownbody but can no longer trust
their own body.
And if you're listening to thisand your anxiety presents
predominantly in ways and thatis your focus on the physical
sensations of anxiety, then youprobably get what I'm talking
(01:50):
about.
For anxious people who arestruggling for any extended
period of time, not only do theybecome afraid of their own body
, but they also lose the abilityto trust in their own bodies.
That's a tough place to be, sowe're going to talk about that
today.
A quick disclaimer before we getstarted.
We are always assuming here onthis podcast or in any of the
social media content that Icreate, that you have been
(02:10):
checked out and medicallycleared.
You have a medical care team orprovider.
That is not just suggested, butit's actually required If you
were my therapy client which youare not, I mean, I guess,
except for that tiny group ofyou that are clients and also
listening to this podcast.
I would not engage in thingslike exposure planning or work
on any physical activity withyou until you had that medical
(02:32):
review.
So if you are too afraid to getchecked out which is common in
this community, you're gonnahave to work on that and I get
it.
But you might want to stoplistening to this podcast
episode right here because Icould not give you advice on
doing physical type exposuresuntil you have that medical
clearance.
So, that being said, let's sortof get into this.
This is a discussion about howchronic and disordered anxiety
(02:54):
can leave the person struggling,fearing and no longer trusting
their body.
But one more thing before weget into the meat of it.
As you are aware, if you listenon a regular basis, the Anxious
Truth is more than just thispodcast episode.
There's a bunch of othergoodies on my website at
theanxioustruthcom, includinglinks to all 300 and somewhat
prior podcast episodes, thebooks I've written, low-cost
(03:16):
workshops and programs, all myother social media channels and
content.
Go check it out.
The website is theanxioustr?
Truthcom, so avail yourself ofall the goodies, most of which
are free, all of which are lowcost.
So chronic pain.
If we look at this through thelens of, like, somebody who's
dealing with chronic pain orchronic illness, those sort of
(03:36):
things can lead to functionaldegradation, right, which means
that a person who has a chronicillness or is dealing with
chronic pain that may be hard tomanage or get rid of is going
to wind up finding theirfunction impacted in some
negative way, and for thosefolks, their life starts to get
restricted.
They have to haveaccommodations, they have to
sort of work around the injuriesor the pain or the illnesses,
(03:59):
and that can lead them to befrustrated and to have to kind
of change the way they operate,and they also may no longer
trust in their own body.
Right?
That is really common forpeople who are dealing with
chronic illness or chronic painor injuries that are slow to
heal.
They might find themselvessitting and lamenting the fact
that they cannot do what theywant to do or used to be able to
(04:21):
do physically.
Now, in that context and ifthat is you, by the way, if you
are in an overlap where you'redealing with that and also
dealing with an anxiety disorderand listening to this podcast,
my heart goes out to you it's avery difficult place, to be for
sure.
So if this is what happens, wecan look at it as one version of
what we're talking about today,because there is legitimately a
(04:42):
medical or physical impairmentthere.
There is physiology under thehood that is, in fact, causing
an actual impairment.
That requires working around oraccommodating and, yes, that
person may decide I cannot anylonger trust my body like I used
to, because there's somethingphysically or medically going on
there.
(05:02):
Unfortunately, this happens tomany, many people and again,
some of you are members of theaudience listening to this
podcast.
So hang in there and do thebest you can if that is you.
But for somebody who isstruggling with chronic or
disordered anxiety, we're alwaystalking about the context where
you are generally anxious.
Because you are anxious, youare afraid, because you are
afraid, and the primary concernof that is you and the primary
(05:24):
concern of that is you and theprimary concern for you is the
physical sensations of anxiety.
The same thing can and oftendoes happen, unfortunately.
This person has nophysiological problem, no
chronic illness, no long healinginjury, no chronic pain, but
they also begin to start totreat themselves as fragile or
broken or physically incapable.
(05:44):
An anxious person might totreat themselves as fragile or
broken or physically incapable.
An anxious person mightactually treat themselves as if
they are always in some kind ofmedical danger.
This is incredibly common and Iwould think in the community
surrounding this podcast and theother work that I do, we're
probably split about 50-50.
Some people are really focusedon the physical aspects of
anxiety and some people arefocused on the mental or thought
(06:06):
aspects.
It is incredibly common if youare finding yourself in a place
where anxiety symptomsthemselves are causing you to
treat yourself like you have amedical problem that doesn't
exist, or that you're in somesort of medical danger that
doesn't necessarily exist, orthat you're physically incapable
or fragile.
This then leads to restrictingyour lifestyle and your
activities.
So I hear statements like Ican't bend over to tie my shoe
(06:30):
because if I do that I might geta little lightheaded, and I'm
terrified of that feeling.
I can't walk too far or myheart might start beating
quickly and that freaks me out.
It makes me panic.
I can't play with my kidsbecause I might feel out of
breath, and if I feel out ofbreath then I start to panic and
I get really anxious and my dayis ruined.
Or I can't drive anymorebecause I might feel that sort
(06:51):
of visual off balance on a boatkind of thing that terrifies me
and I don't want to feel thatthese restrictions in lifestyle
start to play out.
It can really start to lookexactly like a problem faced by
a non anxious person that'sdealing with an actual injury or
an illness or a chronic,chronic medical condition of
(07:12):
some kind.
So what's the difference?
I mean functionally, you mightlook at those two people and not
be able to tell them apart.
Functionally it looks prettymuch the same.
But the sick or injured orchronically ill or chronic pain
person is actually impaired.
There's a physiological deficitof some kind that was caused by
an injury or an illness orsomething like that, whereas the
(07:32):
anxious person sees normalbodily functions as indicative
of an impairment or a possibleimpairment.
See the difference there.
If you look at somebody who'sstruggling with a chronic
illness or chronic pain or along healing injury and an
anxious person who's becometerrified of their own body and
restricts themselves accordingly, they would look the same on
the outside but the motivationis different on the inside.
(07:55):
The anxious person sees anormally functioning body as
indicative of impairment orpossible impairment, or even
danger or fragility ofimpairment or possible
impairment or even danger orfragility, and in the end, the
person struggling with chronicor disordered anxiety begins to
not only fear their own body,which if you're listening, you
can probably relate to I used tofear my own body in a huge way.
This is one of the hallmarks ofmany anxiety disorder
(08:18):
presentation but that personalso begins to lose trust and
faith in their body, and this isa thing we hear all the time.
This is hugely impactfulbecause, as it turns out, we
live in a physical world.
We are physical beings, whereuse of our bodies is what moves
us through time and space.
We use our bodies foreverything.
(08:38):
So if you've reached the pointwhere you are too afraid of your
body or you feel that you can'ttrust your body any longer,
life gets really difficult,which adds to the emotional and
psychological burden of thedisordered state, as if it
wasn't difficult enough as it is.
So here are some commonstatements that we would hear in
our community.
People will say things like Ifeel like I can't trust my body
(09:00):
anymore.
Or I used to be an athlete andnow I don't even know who I am
anymore.
Or they might say somethinglike I used to enjoy hiking and
outdoor activities with myfamily and my friends, something
like I used to enjoy hiking andoutdoor activities with my
family and my friends and I'velost that huge part of my life.
Or people will often say I feellike my body has failed me or
is betraying me, and those aretough to hear.
(09:20):
Those are heartbreakingstatements, right?
I mean clearly my heart goesout to anybody who finds
themselves in this situation andI remember feeling that way.
It's very, very difficult.
The anxious person that has losttrust in their own body often
feels even more lost andhopeless than ever, and they may
start to see no way out of thepredicament.
Because if my body fails, orthey see it as failing, then
(09:44):
what am I left with?
Right, because we live in aphysical world.
Now, as a quick side note, thisis not what this episode is
about, but I think it leads toan important topic.
When we frame it through thislens, you could see why people
start to overuse the phraseanxiety and depression are two
sides of the same coin, or whypeople will often make blanket
statements about how depressionand anxiety always come together
(10:04):
.
But in this context, when welook through this lens, can you
see how the depressed state canactually be a direct result of
the anxious state.
So, for instance, if somebodyis in a depressed state after
the loss of a loved one, wewould not see them as
psychologically flawed ordamaged in some way.
But an anxious person thatfeels depressed because they're
forced to live a very limitedlife will often see themselves
(10:26):
exactly that way as broken orflawed or in need of healing in
some way.
They'll look as if they havetwo mental illnesses.
Now, in my experience, whichmay or may not apply in your
actual life, you have to decidethat anxious people are
primarily feeling depressed orhaving depressed states and
moods because they are anxiousand restricted as a result.
(10:47):
Right, very different situation, right?
Just wanted to mention that,because that feeling that your
body is betraying you can bevery difficult emotionally and
it can lead to feeling low orsad or depressed at times,
situational in nature, at leastthe way I kind of look at it.
So after that little shortcut,let's go back to the topic.
The logical question that youmight be asking now is like yeah
(11:10):
, drew, this is how I feel.
I feel like my body has failedme, I feel like my body is
betraying me, I can't control itanymore, I can't trust it and
I'm treating myself like I'mmade of glass all the time.
So how do I learn to trust mybody again and or sort of not
feel it Well when we'refollowing the principles of
(11:31):
recovery that align with currentacceptance and
mindfulness-based forms of thirdwave cognitive and behavioral
therapies?
And that is my jam.
That's where I'm always comingfrom, always got to keep that in
mind.
We have a few paths available tous, but here's a spoiler alert
none of those creates sort ofair quotes, body trust just
through thinking.
There's no such thing that I'maware of where you could just
(11:53):
decide to trust your body againor feel like you trusted
thinking, cognitiverestructuring, talking about it,
affirmation, self talk rarely,if ever, gets that job done.
In fact I'm almost going to saynever.
I have not seen anybodyovercome this problem just
through positive self talk, forinstance.
It's experience.
Doing things that you are sureyou should not do is always part
(12:16):
of this puzzle.
So just keep that in mind as wekind of go on to sort of the
second half of the episode,right?
So if you've been around herelong enough, you know that I
talk all the time about exposure, and exposure is just what we
call it when someoneintentionally and willfully
chooses to face the thing theyfear without resorting to
avoidance or control-basedcoping strategies, and they do
(12:37):
that to learn that they arecapable of handling the fear For
an anxious person.
In our context, the exposure isthe anxiety itself.
In the context of thisparticular episode or video, we
care most about the physicalsymptoms of anxiety and fear
when doing exposures, whichmeans choosing to be triggered.
The physical sensations you seeas dangerous or signs that your
(12:57):
body is failing, are part ofwhat you are trying to learn, to
work through as opposed to runaway from.
To learn that the sensationsare natural responses to the
threat response and notindications of medical emergency
or physiological deficit ormalfunction in some way.
That's important, right?
So when we have those exposuresexperiences and we work through
(13:20):
the racing heart, the jellylegs, the dizzy feeling, the
shortness of breath and come outthe other side without saving
yourselves, we begin torecognize that like, oh, this is
really uncomfortable.
I don't like when this happens,but I can stop treating it like
a medical emergency or stoptreating myself like I'm about
to break.
Now here is where we can getreally specific about exposures
and use what we callinteroceptive exposures.
(13:41):
These are sort of miniexposures that are specifically
targeting the physicalsensations of anxiety and fear,
the things you experience inyour body.
An interoceptive exposure yourtherapist you're always doing it
with a therapist right or aqualified person your therapist
might invite you to do somelight exercise in session to
intentionally raise your heartrate to make you uncomfortable.
(14:01):
You might breathe through astraw to get that sort of air
hunger.
Can't get a deep enough breathfeeling.
Maybe you'll spin around in theoffice chair, not like you're
on an amusement park ride, butenough to intentionally feel
dizzy, which is supposed to makeyou uncomfortable.
Interoceptive exposures areclearly scary because they're
going to make you feel thespecific sensations that you
(14:21):
don't want to feel and they dorequire some courage and what I
would like to call an informedleap of faith.
But they really can be veryeffective in learning that your
body is not broken and it's notbetraying you.
It's working just fine, eventhough the way it's working is
scaring you.
That's a core lesson that welearn when we do exposures,
(14:42):
whether they are generalexposures or interoceptives and
work through those sensationsinstead of running from them or
saving yourself from them.
Right, but this is reallydifficult Because exposures are
artificial.
We manufacture them to find waysto intentionally trigger you.
They don't often look like yourlife would look.
They're a little bit clinical.
They could be sort of sterileand they can have no meaning.
(15:03):
And they're also really likebright, light, cold, nothing
warm and fuzzy about them.
Oh, I'm going to get up rightnow and intentionally trigger
myself, for no other reason thanto trigger myself.
So that's a difficult way to goabout it, but it is effective.
So let's look at a second way tosort of rebuild body trust,
which might be through the useof exercise.
(15:24):
Now, I am not talking aboutgoing from the sofa to a
marathon in two weeks or goingfrom zero exercise to daily
CrossFit sessions or runningSpartan races, like you don't
have to do that.
You don't have to become abodybuilder or a powerlifter in
two weeks.
That's not a thing.
But we all hear that exerciseis good for anxiety.
Air quotes for a reason.
And forget all the theoriesabout burning off adrenaline and
(15:47):
cortisol.
Let's forget about that part.
Let's just look at thepsychological impacts off
adrenaline and cortisol.
Let's forget about that part.
Let's just look at thepsychological impacts.
Exercise that you enjoy,whatever that may be, it can
look any way you want is doingsomething good for you just
because you want to and itbenefits you Like.
That alone is huge for ananxious person that would
otherwise sit idle scanning andactively worrying and ruminating
(16:07):
all day long.
That's a huge step forward.
I'm going to do something goodfor myself and it's an activity
that I relate to in some way,shape or form.
I like to run, I like to walk,I like to do calisthenics I
don't know whatever it is, butcan you see the difference?
It's a little bit more lifeoriented as opposed to, like
clinical exposures that oftendon't have any relation to life
at all.
(16:27):
Now, exercise is also a greatstress management tool, right.
So down the road, the benefitsof you know, helping empty the
stress jug.
To borrow Josh Fletcher'sanalogy from the work we do over
on disordered, which is thepodcast we do together at
disorderfm, check it out.
So exercise is a great stressmanagement tool.
And exercise does have physicalbenefits and there is literally
never a time to not be healthy,right Like there's nothing
(16:49):
wrong with wanting to be healthy.
So exercise can even havesocial benefits if you're using
group activities that give you areason to move your body, sort
of in that context.
But for today, we have toacknowledge that exercise can
often be triggering before it isbeneficial.
That's true, which is exactlywhy we are including it today.
You might find that exercise isreally difficult because, again
(17:11):
, it triggers the sensationsthat you fear so much.
You don't trust your bodyanymore, so you don't really
want to do things that push itor what you think is pushing it
in any way.
So we have to acknowledge thatBefore you get the benefits of
exercise, you've got to workthrough its often triggering
nature.
We've got to put that on thetable, otherwise people start to
feel confused and a little bitlet down.
(17:32):
But engaging in exercise is likedoing interoceptive exposures
with your therapist, but you getto pick what you do just
because you want to do it, andit's broader in scope than just
limited body focus, specificactivities in the therapist's
office right or in your kitchen,for instance, if you do
interoceptive homework.
So like a walk around yourneighborhood for five minutes
counts, as does maybe just evenwalking around your garden or
(17:55):
choosing to take the trash outyourself rather than asking one
of your kids to do it.
I would ask my kids to do itanyway.
We can experiment withpurposeful exercise, the use of
our bodies to learn that wedon't have to treat our own
hearts or muscles or joints orlungs or eyes or bones as
threats or things that arefragile and apt to break.
And a third way to approachthis would be to use things like
(18:18):
yoga or even maybe a gentleform of martial arts like Tai
Chi.
I mean, when you see peoplepracticing Tai Chi, it actually
looks really quite beautiful.
But anyway, I claim zeroexpertise in either, as I am a
real beginner when it comes toyoga and I know almost nothing
about Tai Chi other than when Itried to technique-ify it to
stop my anxiety many, many yearsago.
(18:38):
But there is a reason why yoga,for instance, is included as
part of, say, mindfulness-basedstress reduction, which is a
hugely like evidence-supportedintervention for stress
reduction and working on thingsjust like this.
So, intentionally making timeto do things like gently
stretching, balancing and usingyour muscles, but in a non
(19:00):
judgmental, non striving way, is, at least for my money, an
excellent way to start torebuild trust and faith in your
physical being and yourphysicality.
And it just dawned on me thatI'm talking about yoga, so I
guess I'm now officiallyholistic.
Look at me.
But seriously, though, ifbreathing through a straw in
your therapist's office soundsterrifying and even a walk
(19:23):
around the block sounds like toomuch in the way of exercise,
then gentle yoga or say Tai Chi,practice within your medical
limits.
Remember, we're always assumingthat you've been checked out.
If you have injuries or stuff,you may have to work around that
, but those things are designedto re-explore your body and what
it could do, and I think that'sa darn good idea.
As we go down the road, I'mgoing to be talking more about
(19:46):
this kind of thing and aboutthings like MBSR
mindfulness-based stressreduction as I start to
integrate them more fully intomy practice, both personally and
professionally.
But remember, you don't have tosquat 600 pounds, run a six
minute mile or hike you know theAppalachian Trail to regain
trust in your body.
Even starting with basicmovements, a few minutes a day
(20:07):
also counts.
So like, don't overlook yoga.
For a lot of times I would haveoverlooked stuff like that, but
I won't anymore.
I'll be integrating it into thework that I do with my therapy
clients for sure, because it hasbenefit and it can help you
learn to trust your body again.
So let's look at what all ofthese things have in common.
The first thing is always thebad news that we have to
(20:29):
acknowledge, because we deal inreality here on the anxious
truth All of these things aregoing to feel scary or
impossible at some level.
This is what we expect.
You fear and do not trust yourbody.
That's why you're listening for20 minutes to this crazy
podcast episode.
The fear that you have aboutyour body and the lack of trust
will insist that the sofa or thebed is a much more responsible,
(20:52):
safer choice.
We choose to do movement anyway, in a variety of ways that I've
just described, to face thisfear, so that we can learn from
the experiences of ways thatI've just described.
To face this fear so that wecan learn from the experiences.
The second thing they have incommon they show you, through
experience, that your body isstill capable.
Now, it's true, maybe not ascapable as it was before,
(21:13):
probably because you've beensedentary and out of practice
for a while, but still capable.
And once we start to see thiscapability again, then you're on
the road to rebuilding some newversion of old you.
From a physical standpoint,maybe you can't run like you
once did five years ago or liftlike you did five years ago, but
that doesn't mean that walkingyour dog for five minutes has to
(21:34):
be avoided like the plague atall costs.
Third thing that they share incommon.
Third thing that they share incommon these things, whether
they are exposures slash,interoceptive exposures,
intentional exercise in a moretraditional sense, or gentle
things like yoga or Tai Chi,these are all ways to open
yourself up to different options.
Fear of your own body, nottrusting your body, is going to
(21:55):
lead you into places where youget rigid, and that rigidity
shows as limitations.
Part of what we work on when weuse things like ACT, acceptance
and commitment therapy intherapy is opening up to other
options.
So you have to ask yourselfwhat would happen if you at
least consider that sitting atyour kitchen table all day is
not the only way.
Can you open yourself up toother options that might offer
(22:17):
valuable lessons?
Valuable lessons when we engagein reestablishing body trust,
like I'm talking about today.
We are not only literallybuilding physical flexibility,
which I could certainly use moreof myself but we are helping to
improve our psychologicalflexibility, which is a core
part of recovery, at least in myview of this particular issue,
(22:38):
in my view of the world, andfinally, especially if much of
your identity or self-image wasconnected to your physicality
maybe you were an athlete ofsome kind or an outdoors person.
Engaging exposures,interoceptive exposures,
purposeful exercise in the moretraditional sense or gentle yoga
are all ways to reconnect tothings that you value.
(23:02):
These are things that matter toyou.
Talk about values all the time,because if we are working on
ways to move from fear basedliving to values based living as
part of how we define recovery,then choosing to rebuild trust
in your body using these methods, sort of some scariest to
gentlest is likely going to bean essential element in that
(23:25):
plan.
So what we have here is anacknowledgement that anxious
people do begin to fear theirown bodies.
Very often they do lose trustin their bodies and then they
wind up being sedentary, livinga very limited lifestyle because
of it, hating that feelingdepressed.
But there are waysunfortunately, they involve
doing and experience, not justthinking and talking.
(23:46):
There are ways along a spectrumfrom sort of clinical and super
scary down to maybe softer anda little gentler and easy to
engage in, to start to rebuildthe trust in your own body, to
see that, oh, it's not broken,it's not as fragile as I think
it is.
(24:08):
If we give them a look and openup to those options, we give
ourselves at least some chanceto start to get back to where we
once were or want to be againfrom a physical standpoint.
And if you're going to work onthe physical stuff, then, like
it or not, accidentally, you'reworking on the mental, emotional
, psychological stuff at thesame time.
So win, win, win, win, win allaround, even though this
sometimes is stuff that's hardto do, it's scary, takes that
(24:31):
leap of faith and you have tokind of do it before you even
believe that it's going to work,which is always a hard sell.
But that's what we got aroundhere.
And that is 24 minutes into it,episode 30, what?
304, the anxious truth in thebooks.
You know it's over because,yeah, we got music playing.
So I will remind you beforesigning off, as I always do,
(24:52):
that anything you can do tostart to take some of these tips
or advice, or whatever you wantto call it, and implement it in
your own life and move a littlebit more toward recovery and
toward your values and whatmatters to you, and away from
just reacting in fear toeverything you think or feel, it
counts.
It doesn't matter how tinythese steps are.
I would encourage you to takethe tiny steps.
They will add up, you will getthere.
And, of course, if you arelistening to this podcast on
(25:15):
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and review, and you like thepodcast and leave a five-star
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Of course, if you're on YouTubeand you dig it like the video
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(25:36):
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I promise I'm going to circleback around and try and answer
as many of this stuff aspossible and that's it.
I guess I'll be back in twoweeks, as I always am, with
another topic.
I'm not quite sure what that'sgoing to be, but I will be here.
Thanks for hanging out today.
I hope you found it useful orhelpful in some way and I will
(25:57):
be back next time.
Thanks a bunch, guys.
We are out you.
This week on the Anxious Truth.
We're talking about whathappens when an anxious person
loses the ability to trust theirown body, so let's get at it
right now.
Hello everybody, welcome backto the Anxious Truth.
(00:23):
This is the podcast that coversall things anxiety, anxiety
disorders and anxiety recovery.
This is episode 304.
We are recording in November of2024, in case you are listening
in the future, I am DrewLinsalata, creator and host of
the Anxious Truth.
I am a therapist practicingunder supervision as of November
2024 in the state of New York,specializing in the treatment of
(00:44):
anxiety and anxiety disorders.
I'm a three-time author on thistopic, a social media guy, an
advocate, an educator and,unfortunately, a former sufferer
of things like panic disorder,agoraphobia, ocd and depression
for many years of my life, onand off, but doing better now.
Thank you very much.
If this is your first time here, welcome.
I hope you find things usefulin this episode and maybe others
(01:05):
, if you check it out.
Of course, if you are areturning listener or viewer on
YouTube and, by the way, ifyou're viewing on YouTube this
week, I'm sorry because you'renot viewing on YouTube this week
there's no video, just a stillimage.
But if you are a returningviewer or listener, welcome back
.
I hope you find this episodehelpful and thank you for
spending time with me again andsupporting the work that I do.
So today we are going to talkabout how an anxious person who
(01:28):
I would define as somebody who'sdealing with chronic or
disordered states of anxiety howthat person can, over time, not
only learn to fear their ownbody but can no longer trust
their own body.
And if you're listening to thisand your anxiety presents
predominantly in ways and thatis your focus on the physical
sensations of anxiety, then youprobably get what I'm talking
(01:50):
about.
For anxious people who arestruggling for any extended
period of time, not only do theybecome afraid of their own body
, but they also lose the abilityto trust in their own bodies.
That's a tough place to be, sowe're going to talk about that
today.
A quick disclaimer before we getstarted.
We are always assuming here onthis podcast or in any of the
social media content that Icreate, that you have been
(02:10):
checked out and medicallycleared.
You have a medical care team orprovider.
That is not just suggested, butit's actually required If you
were my therapy client which youare not, I mean, I guess,
except for that tiny group ofyou that are clients and also
listening to this podcast.
I would not engage in thingslike exposure planning or work
on any physical activity withyou until you had that medical
(02:32):
review.
So if you are too afraid to getchecked out which is common in
this community, you're gonnahave to work on that and I get
it.
But you might want to stoplistening to this podcast
episode right here because Icould not give you advice on
doing physical type exposuresuntil you have that medical
clearance.
So, that being said, let's sortof get into this.
This is a discussion about howchronic and disordered anxiety
(02:54):
can leave the person struggling,fearing and no longer trusting
their body.
But one more thing before weget into the meat of it.
As you are aware, if you listenon a regular basis, the Anxious
Truth is more than just thispodcast episode.
There's a bunch of othergoodies on my website at
theanxioustruthcom, includinglinks to all 300 and somewhat
prior podcast episodes, thebooks I've written, low-cost
(03:16):
workshops and programs, all myother social media channels and
content.
Go check it out.
The website is theanxioustr?
Truthcom, so avail yourself ofall the goodies, most of which
are free, all of which are lowcost.
So chronic pain.
If we look at this through thelens of, like, somebody who's
dealing with chronic pain orchronic illness, those sort of
(03:36):
things can lead to functionaldegradation, right, which means
that a person who has a chronicillness or is dealing with
chronic pain that may be hard tomanage or get rid of is going
to wind up finding theirfunction impacted in some
negative way, and for thosefolks, their life starts to get
restricted.
They have to haveaccommodations, they have to
sort of work around the injuriesor the pain or the illnesses,
(03:59):
and that can lead them to befrustrated and to have to kind
of change the way they operate,and they also may no longer
trust in their own body.
Right?
That is really common forpeople who are dealing with
chronic illness or chronic painor injuries that are slow to
heal.
They might find themselvessitting and lamenting the fact
that they cannot do what theywant to do or used to be able to
(04:21):
do physically.
Now, in that context and ifthat is you, by the way, if you
are in an overlap where you'redealing with that and also
dealing with an anxiety disorderand listening to this podcast,
my heart goes out to you it's avery difficult place, to be for
sure.
So if this is what happens, wecan look at it as one version of
what we're talking about today,because there is legitimately a
(04:42):
medical or physical impairmentthere.
There is physiology under thehood that is, in fact, causing
an actual impairment.
That requires working around oraccommodating and, yes, that
person may decide I cannot anylonger trust my body like I used
to, because there's somethingphysically or medically going on
there.
(05:02):
Unfortunately, this happens tomany, many people and again,
some of you are members of theaudience listening to this
podcast.
So hang in there and do thebest you can if that is you.
But for somebody who isstruggling with chronic or
disordered anxiety, we're alwaystalking about the context where
you are generally anxious.
Because you are anxious, youare afraid, because you are
afraid, and the primary concernof that is you and the primary
(05:24):
concern of that is you and theprimary concern for you is the
physical sensations of anxiety.
The same thing can and oftendoes happen, unfortunately.
This person has nophysiological problem, no
chronic illness, no long healinginjury, no chronic pain, but
they also begin to start totreat themselves as fragile or
broken or physically incapable.
(05:44):
An anxious person might totreat themselves as fragile or
broken or physically incapable.
An anxious person mightactually treat themselves as if
they are always in some kind ofmedical danger.
This is incredibly common and Iwould think in the community
surrounding this podcast and theother work that I do, we're
probably split about 50-50.
Some people are really focusedon the physical aspects of
anxiety and some people arefocused on the mental or thought
(06:06):
aspects.
It is incredibly common if youare finding yourself in a place
where anxiety symptomsthemselves are causing you to
treat yourself like you have amedical problem that doesn't
exist, or that you're in somesort of medical danger that
doesn't necessarily exist, orthat you're physically incapable
or fragile.
This then leads to restrictingyour lifestyle and your
activities.
So I hear statements like Ican't bend over to tie my shoe
(06:30):
because if I do that I might geta little lightheaded, and I'm
terrified of that feeling.
I can't walk too far or myheart might start beating
quickly and that freaks me out.
It makes me panic.
I can't play with my kidsbecause I might feel out of
breath, and if I feel out ofbreath then I start to panic and
I get really anxious and my dayis ruined.
Or I can't drive anymorebecause I might feel that sort
(06:51):
of visual off balance on a boatkind of thing that terrifies me
and I don't want to feel thatthese restrictions in lifestyle
start to play out.
It can really start to lookexactly like a problem faced by
a non anxious person that'sdealing with an actual injury or
an illness or a chronic,chronic medical condition of
(07:12):
some kind.
So what's the difference?
I mean functionally, you mightlook at those two people and not
be able to tell them apart.
Functionally it looks prettymuch the same.
But the sick or injured orchronically ill or chronic pain
person is actually impaired.
There's a physiological deficitof some kind that was caused by
an injury or an illness orsomething like that, whereas the
(07:32):
anxious person sees normalbodily functions as indicative
of an impairment or a possibleimpairment.
See the difference there.
If you look at somebody who'sstruggling with a chronic
illness or chronic pain or along healing injury and an
anxious person who's becometerrified of their own body and
restricts themselves accordingly, they would look the same on
the outside but the motivationis different on the inside.
(07:55):
The anxious person sees anormally functioning body as
indicative of impairment orpossible impairment, or even
danger or fragility ofimpairment or possible
impairment or even danger orfragility, and in the end, the
person struggling with chronicor disordered anxiety begins to
not only fear their own body,which if you're listening, you
can probably relate to I used tofear my own body in a huge way.
This is one of the hallmarks ofmany anxiety disorder
(08:18):
presentation but that personalso begins to lose trust and
faith in their body, and this isa thing we hear all the time.
This is hugely impactfulbecause, as it turns out, we
live in a physical world.
We are physical beings, whereuse of our bodies is what moves
us through time and space.
We use our bodies foreverything.
(08:38):
So if you've reached the pointwhere you are too afraid of your
body or you feel that you can'ttrust your body any longer,
life gets really difficult,which adds to the emotional and
psychological burden of thedisordered state, as if it
wasn't difficult enough as it is.
So here are some commonstatements that we would hear in
our community.
People will say things like Ifeel like I can't trust my body
(09:00):
anymore.
Or I used to be an athlete andnow I don't even know who I am
anymore.
Or they might say somethinglike I used to enjoy hiking and
outdoor activities with myfamily and my friends, something
like I used to enjoy hiking andoutdoor activities with my
family and my friends and I'velost that huge part of my life.
Or people will often say I feellike my body has failed me or
is betraying me, and those aretough to hear.
(09:20):
Those are heartbreakingstatements, right?
I mean clearly my heart goesout to anybody who finds
themselves in this situation andI remember feeling that way.
It's very, very difficult.
The anxious person that has losttrust in their own body often
feels even more lost andhopeless than ever, and they may
start to see no way out of thepredicament.
Because if my body fails, orthey see it as failing, then
(09:44):
what am I left with?
Right, because we live in aphysical world.
Now, as a quick side note, thisis not what this episode is
about, but I think it leads toan important topic.
When we frame it through thislens, you could see why people
start to overuse the phraseanxiety and depression are two
sides of the same coin, or whypeople will often make blanket
statements about how depressionand anxiety always come together
(10:04):
.
But in this context, when welook through this lens, can you
see how the depressed state canactually be a direct result of
the anxious state.
So, for instance, if somebodyis in a depressed state after
the loss of a loved one, wewould not see them as
psychologically flawed ordamaged in some way.
But an anxious person thatfeels depressed because they're
forced to live a very limitedlife will often see themselves
(10:26):
exactly that way as broken orflawed or in need of healing in
some way.
They'll look as if they havetwo mental illnesses.
Now, in my experience, whichmay or may not apply in your
actual life, you have to decidethat anxious people are
primarily feeling depressed orhaving depressed states and
moods because they are anxiousand restricted as a result.
(10:47):
Right, very different situation, right?
Just wanted to mention that,because that feeling that your
body is betraying you can bevery difficult emotionally and
it can lead to feeling low orsad or depressed at times,
situational in nature, at leastthe way I kind of look at it.
So after that little shortcut,let's go back to the topic.
The logical question that youmight be asking now is like yeah
(11:10):
, drew, this is how I feel.
I feel like my body has failedme, I feel like my body is
betraying me, I can't control itanymore, I can't trust it and
I'm treating myself like I'mmade of glass all the time.
So how do I learn to trust mybody again and or sort of not
feel it Well when we'refollowing the principles of
(11:31):
recovery that align with currentacceptance and
mindfulness-based forms of thirdwave cognitive and behavioral
therapies?
And that is my jam.
That's where I'm always comingfrom, always got to keep that in
mind.
We have a few paths available tous, but here's a spoiler alert
none of those creates sort ofair quotes, body trust just
through thinking.
There's no such thing that I'maware of where you could just
(11:53):
decide to trust your body againor feel like you trusted
thinking, cognitiverestructuring, talking about it,
affirmation, self talk rarely,if ever, gets that job done.
In fact I'm almost going to saynever.
I have not seen anybodyovercome this problem just
through positive self talk, forinstance.
It's experience.
Doing things that you are sureyou should not do is always part
(12:16):
of this puzzle.
So just keep that in mind as wekind of go on to sort of the
second half of the episode,right?
So if you've been around herelong enough, you know that I
talk all the time about exposure, and exposure is just what we
call it when someoneintentionally and willfully
chooses to face the thing theyfear without resorting to
avoidance or control-basedcoping strategies, and they do
(12:37):
that to learn that they arecapable of handling the fear For
an anxious person.
In our context, the exposure isthe anxiety itself.
In the context of thisparticular episode or video, we
care most about the physicalsymptoms of anxiety and fear
when doing exposures, whichmeans choosing to be triggered.
The physical sensations you seeas dangerous or signs that your
(12:57):
body is failing, are part ofwhat you are trying to learn, to
work through as opposed to runaway from.
To learn that the sensationsare natural responses to the
threat response and notindications of medical emergency
or physiological deficit ormalfunction in some way.
That's important, right?
So when we have those exposuresexperiences and we work through
(13:20):
the racing heart, the jellylegs, the dizzy feeling, the
shortness of breath and come outthe other side without saving
yourselves, we begin torecognize that like, oh, this is
really uncomfortable.
I don't like when this happens,but I can stop treating it like
a medical emergency or stoptreating myself like I'm about
to break.
Now here is where we can getreally specific about exposures
and use what we callinteroceptive exposures.
(13:41):
These are sort of miniexposures that are specifically
targeting the physicalsensations of anxiety and fear,
the things you experience inyour body.
An interoceptive exposure yourtherapist you're always doing it
with a therapist right or aqualified person your therapist
might invite you to do somelight exercise in session to
intentionally raise your heartrate to make you uncomfortable.
(14:01):
You might breathe through astraw to get that sort of air
hunger.
Can't get a deep enough breathfeeling.
Maybe you'll spin around in theoffice chair, not like you're
on an amusement park ride, butenough to intentionally feel
dizzy, which is supposed to makeyou uncomfortable.
Interoceptive exposures areclearly scary because they're
going to make you feel thespecific sensations that you
(14:21):
don't want to feel and they dorequire some courage and what I
would like to call an informedleap of faith.
But they really can be veryeffective in learning that your
body is not broken and it's notbetraying you.
It's working just fine, eventhough the way it's working is
scaring you.
That's a core lesson that welearn when we do exposures,
(14:42):
whether they are generalexposures or interoceptives and
work through those sensationsinstead of running from them or
saving yourself from them.
Right, but this is reallydifficult Because exposures are
artificial.
We manufacture them to find waysto intentionally trigger you.
They don't often look like yourlife would look.
They're a little bit clinical.
They could be sort of sterileand they can have no meaning.
(15:03):
And they're also really likebright, light, cold, nothing
warm and fuzzy about them.
Oh, I'm going to get up rightnow and intentionally trigger
myself, for no other reason thanto trigger myself.
So that's a difficult way to goabout it, but it is effective.
So let's look at a second way tosort of rebuild body trust,
which might be through the useof exercise.
(15:24):
Now, I am not talking aboutgoing from the sofa to a
marathon in two weeks or goingfrom zero exercise to daily
CrossFit sessions or runningSpartan races, like you don't
have to do that.
You don't have to become abodybuilder or a powerlifter in
two weeks.
That's not a thing.
But we all hear that exerciseis good for anxiety.
Air quotes for a reason.
And forget all the theoriesabout burning off adrenaline and
(15:47):
cortisol.
Let's forget about that part.
Let's just look at thepsychological impacts off
adrenaline and cortisol.
Let's forget about that part.
Let's just look at thepsychological impacts.
Exercise that you enjoy,whatever that may be, it can
look any way you want is doingsomething good for you just
because you want to and itbenefits you Like.
That alone is huge for ananxious person that would
otherwise sit idle scanning andactively worrying and ruminating
(16:07):
all day long.
That's a huge step forward.
I'm going to do something goodfor myself and it's an activity
that I relate to in some way,shape or form.
I like to run, I like to walk,I like to do calisthenics I
don't know whatever it is, butcan you see the difference?
It's a little bit more lifeoriented as opposed to, like
clinical exposures that oftendon't have any relation to life
at all.
(16:27):
Now, exercise is also a greatstress management tool, right.
So down the road, the benefitsof you know, helping empty the
stress jug.
To borrow Josh Fletcher'sanalogy from the work we do over
on disordered, which is thepodcast we do together at
disorderfm, check it out.
So exercise is a great stressmanagement tool.
And exercise does have physicalbenefits and there is literally
never a time to not be healthy,right Like there's nothing
(16:49):
wrong with wanting to be healthy.
So exercise can even havesocial benefits if you're using
group activities that give you areason to move your body, sort
of in that context.
But for today, we have toacknowledge that exercise can
often be triggering before it isbeneficial.
That's true, which is exactlywhy we are including it today.
You might find that exercise isreally difficult because, again
(17:11):
, it triggers the sensationsthat you fear so much.
You don't trust your bodyanymore, so you don't really
want to do things that push itor what you think is pushing it
in any way.
So we have to acknowledge thatBefore you get the benefits of
exercise, you've got to workthrough its often triggering
nature.
We've got to put that on thetable, otherwise people start to
feel confused and a little bitlet down.
(17:32):
But engaging in exercise is likedoing interoceptive exposures
with your therapist, but you getto pick what you do just
because you want to do it, andit's broader in scope than just
limited body focus, specificactivities in the therapist's
office right or in your kitchen,for instance, if you do
interoceptive homework.
So like a walk around yourneighborhood for five minutes
counts, as does maybe just evenwalking around your garden or
(17:55):
choosing to take the trash outyourself rather than asking one
of your kids to do it.
I would ask my kids to do itanyway.
We can experiment withpurposeful exercise, the use of
our bodies to learn that wedon't have to treat our own
hearts or muscles or joints orlungs or eyes or bones as
threats or things that arefragile and apt to break.
And a third way to approachthis would be to use things like
(18:18):
yoga or even maybe a gentleform of martial arts like Tai
Chi.
I mean, when you see peoplepracticing Tai Chi, it actually
looks really quite beautiful.
But anyway, I claim zeroexpertise in either, as I am a
real beginner when it comes toyoga and I know almost nothing
about Tai Chi other than when Itried to technique-ify it to
stop my anxiety many, many yearsago.
(18:38):
But there is a reason why yoga,for instance, is included as
part of, say, mindfulness-basedstress reduction, which is a
hugely like evidence-supportedintervention for stress
reduction and working on thingsjust like this.
So, intentionally making timeto do things like gently
stretching, balancing and usingyour muscles, but in a non
(19:00):
judgmental, non striving way, is, at least for my money, an
excellent way to start torebuild trust and faith in your
physical being and yourphysicality.
And it just dawned on me thatI'm talking about yoga, so I
guess I'm now officiallyholistic.
Look at me.
But seriously, though, ifbreathing through a straw in
your therapist's office soundsterrifying and even a walk
(19:23):
around the block sounds like toomuch in the way of exercise,
then gentle yoga or say Tai Chi,practice within your medical
limits.
Remember, we're always assumingthat you've been checked out.
If you have injuries or stuff,you may have to work around that
, but those things are designedto re-explore your body and what
it could do, and I think that'sa darn good idea.
As we go down the road, I'mgoing to be talking more about
(19:46):
this kind of thing and aboutthings like MBSR
mindfulness-based stressreduction as I start to
integrate them more fully intomy practice, both personally and
professionally.
But remember, you don't have tosquat 600 pounds, run a six
minute mile or hike you know theAppalachian Trail to regain
trust in your body.
Even starting with basicmovements, a few minutes a day
(20:07):
also counts.
So like, don't overlook yoga.
For a lot of times I would haveoverlooked stuff like that, but
I won't anymore.
I'll be integrating it into thework that I do with my therapy
clients for sure, because it hasbenefit and it can help you
learn to trust your body again.
So let's look at what all ofthese things have in common.
The first thing is always thebad news that we have to
(20:29):
acknowledge, because we deal inreality here on the anxious
truth All of these things aregoing to feel scary or
impossible at some level.
This is what we expect.
You fear and do not trust yourbody.
That's why you're listening for20 minutes to this crazy
podcast episode.
The fear that you have aboutyour body and the lack of trust
will insist that the sofa or thebed is a much more responsible,
(20:52):
safer choice.
We choose to do movement anyway, in a variety of ways that I've
just described, to face thisfear, so that we can learn from
the experiences of ways thatI've just described.
To face this fear so that wecan learn from the experiences.
The second thing they have incommon they show you, through
experience, that your body isstill capable.
Now, it's true, maybe not ascapable as it was before,
(21:13):
probably because you've beensedentary and out of practice
for a while, but still capable.
And once we start to see thiscapability again, then you're on
the road to rebuilding some newversion of old you.
From a physical standpoint,maybe you can't run like you
once did five years ago or liftlike you did five years ago, but
that doesn't mean that walkingyour dog for five minutes has to
(21:34):
be avoided like the plague atall costs.
Third thing that they share incommon.
Third thing that they share incommon these things, whether
they are exposures slash,interoceptive exposures,
intentional exercise in a moretraditional sense, or gentle
things like yoga or Tai Chi,these are all ways to open
yourself up to different options.
Fear of your own body, nottrusting your body, is going to
(21:55):
lead you into places where youget rigid, and that rigidity
shows as limitations.
Part of what we work on when weuse things like ACT, acceptance
and commitment therapy intherapy is opening up to other
options.
So you have to ask yourselfwhat would happen if you at
least consider that sitting atyour kitchen table all day is
not the only way.
Can you open yourself up toother options that might offer
(22:17):
valuable lessons?
Valuable lessons when we engagein reestablishing body trust,
like I'm talking about today.
We are not only literallybuilding physical flexibility,
which I could certainly use moreof myself but we are helping to
improve our psychologicalflexibility, which is a core
part of recovery, at least in myview of this particular issue,
(22:38):
in my view of the world, andfinally, especially if much of
your identity or self-image wasconnected to your physicality
maybe you were an athlete ofsome kind or an outdoors person.
Engaging exposures,interoceptive exposures,
purposeful exercise in the moretraditional sense or gentle yoga
are all ways to reconnect tothings that you value.
(23:02):
These are things that matter toyou.
Talk about values all the time,because if we are working on
ways to move from fear basedliving to values based living as
part of how we define recovery,then choosing to rebuild trust
in your body using these methods, sort of some scariest to
gentlest is likely going to bean essential element in that
(23:25):
plan.
So what we have here is anacknowledgement that anxious
people do begin to fear theirown bodies.
Very often they do lose trustin their bodies and then they
wind up being sedentary, livinga very limited lifestyle because
of it, hating that feelingdepressed.
But there are waysunfortunately, they involve
doing and experience, not justthinking and talking.
(23:46):
There are ways along a spectrumfrom sort of clinical and super
scary down to maybe softer anda little gentler and easy to
engage in, to start to rebuildthe trust in your own body, to
see that, oh, it's not broken,it's not as fragile as I think
it is.
(24:08):
If we give them a look and openup to those options, we give
ourselves at least some chanceto start to get back to where we
once were or want to be againfrom a physical standpoint.
And if you're going to work onthe physical stuff, then, like
it or not, accidentally, you'reworking on the mental, emotional
, psychological stuff at thesame time.
So win, win, win, win, win allaround, even though this
sometimes is stuff that's hardto do, it's scary, takes that
(24:31):
leap of faith and you have tokind of do it before you even
believe that it's going to work,which is always a hard sell.
But that's what we got aroundhere.
And that is 24 minutes into it,episode 30, what?
304, the anxious truth in thebooks.
You know it's over because,yeah, we got music playing.
So I will remind you beforesigning off, as I always do,
(24:52):
that anything you can do tostart to take some of these tips
or advice, or whatever you wantto call it, and implement it in
your own life and move a littlebit more toward recovery and
toward your values and whatmatters to you, and away from
just reacting in fear toeverything you think or feel, it
counts.
It doesn't matter how tinythese steps are.
I would encourage you to takethe tiny steps.
They will add up, you will getthere.
And, of course, if you arelistening to this podcast on
(25:15):
Apple Podcasts or Spotify or anyplace where they let you rate
and review, and you like thepodcast and leave a five-star
rating because that really helpsme out, or maybe take a minute
and write a review because thathelps other people out, because
then they find the podcast andthey get some help too.
Of course, if you're on YouTubeand you dig it like the video
subscribe, hit the notificationbell so you know when I upload
new stuff and leave a comment ifyou want.
(25:36):
If you're listening as a podcastepisode, follow the link in the
podcast description.
You can send in questions viatext.
I promise I'm going to circleback around and try and answer
as many of this stuff aspossible and that's it.
I guess I'll be back in twoweeks, as I always am, with
another topic.
I'm not quite sure what that'sgoing to be, but I will be here.
Thanks for hanging out today.
I hope you found it useful orhelpful in some way and I will
(25:57):
be back next time.
Thanks a bunch, guys.
We are out you.
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