April 9, 2025 • 30 mins
Send in a question or comment via text.
Navigating driving anxiety with exposure therapy—but not how you might think.
In this episode, Drew Linsalata (therapist, author, and former anxiety sufferer) challenges common misconceptions about addressing driving anxiety.
Learn why the feeling is the exposure, not the driving itself, and discover how interoceptive and imaginal exposures can help without ever starting your car.
Drew explains why pulling over or listening to music isn't avoidance if you're still experiencing anxiety, clarifies what true avoidance looks like, and emphasizes that recovery is about learning from each experience, not just driving farther.
Whether you experience anxiety holding your keys, sitting in your driveway, or on the highway, this episode offers a practical, acceptance-based approach to driving anxiety that breaks down exactly what exposure therapy means in this context.
You'll learn why small steps count, what constitutes real progress, and how to shift your focus from controlling anxiety to building a different relationship with uncomfortable feelings while driving.
Based on empirically supported approaches to treating anxiety and anxiety disorders, this episode provides realistic strategies for living alongside anxiety rather than attempting to eliminate it.
For full show notes on this episode:
https://theanxioustruth.com/315
Support The Anxious Truth: If you find the podcast helpful and want to support my work, you can buy me a coffee. Other ways to support my work like buying a book or signing up for a low cost workshop can be found on my website. None of this is never required, but always appreciated!
Interested in doing therapy with me? For more information on working with me directly to overcome your anxiety, follow this link.
Disclaimer: The Anxious Truth is not therapy or a replacement for therapy. Listening to The Anxious Truth does not create a therapeutic relationship between you and the host or guests of the podcast. Information here is provided for psychoeducational purposes. As always, when you have questions about your own well-being, please consult your mental health and/or medical care providers. If you are having a mental health crisis, always reach out immediately for in-person help.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
What if you panic while you drive?
What if you're so anxious aboutdriving, or so anxious while in
the car that you've stoppeddriving because you've developed
the fear of doing that?
And what if it's sort ofrestricting or even sort of
ruining your life?
Well, this is a topic that'snear and dear to many hearts
among listeners of the AnxiousTruth.
So this week we're going totalk about driving anxiety and
(00:22):
approaching driving anxietyusing exposure methods.
So let's get to it.
Hello everybody, welcome backto the Anxious Truth.
This is episode 316.
Nope, this is episode 315 ofthe podcast we are recording in
April of 2025, in case you arelistening from the future.
(00:43):
The Anxious Truth is the podcastand YouTube channel that talks
about all things anxiety,anxiety disorders and anxiety
recovery.
If you have just stumbled uponthe podcast or the YouTube
channel today, welcome.
I hope you find this helpfuland, of course, if you are a
returning listener or viewer,welcome back.
Glad you're here.
Thanks for spending some timewith me.
I am Drew Linsalata.
I am the creator and host ofthe Anxious Truth.
(01:04):
I'm also a therapist practicingin the area of anxiety and
anxiety disorders in New York inthe US of A.
I'm a three-time author on thistopic a psychoeducator, an
advocate and a former suffererof panic disorder, agoraphobia,
ocd and depression for manyyears of my life, on and off,
but doing much better now, andactually for many years.
So today we're going to talkabout driving anxiety and
(01:27):
exposure for driving anxiety.
Before we do, just a quickreminder that there are more
goodies beyond just this podcastepisode or YouTube video on my
website at theanxioustruthcom,most of which is free.
Anything that does carry a costis like a book, which is really
inexpensive, or maybe aworkshop that's very inexpensive
.
Anyway, go check it out, followalong with all the other
(01:47):
podcast episodes, follow alongon social media and avail
yourself of all the goodies attheanxioustruthcom.
So, driving anxiety.
Let's talk about drivinganxiety because it might be one
of the top five topics thatpeople want me to address here
on this podcast or on theDisordered podcast that I do
with Josh Fletcher, which, bythe way, you can find at
disorderedfm.
Driving anxiety is one of themost often talked about
(02:10):
struggles and it's one of thetopics people want to hear about
the most.
I have talked about drivinganxiety before.
There's several previouspodcast episodes about this, and
I think we did one onDisordered, but today I want to
specifically address drivinganxiety as it relates to
exposure type therapies orexposure approaches to these
kind of fears.
Now a couple of things before Iget into it.
(02:31):
There's no video today.
If you're watching on YouTube,you're looking at a still image,
and there's a reason for that.
Hear me out.
People will probably want tobring this episode with them
when they drive because theythink I'm going to give them
instructions or it might calmthem down while driving.
I would prefer you not do that.
I never record podcast episodesto give you real-time
(02:53):
instruction while doingexposures of any kind, and I
would really like it if peopledidn't immediately listen to
this podcast to calm down.
The irony of doing an anxietydisorder podcast that then
becomes a safety or copingmechanism is not lost on me.
Can't stop you from doing it,but I would prefer that you did
not do that and I intentionallydid not record video so that if
(03:16):
you are gonna drive whilelistening to this, there's
nothing to watch.
Keep your eyes on the road.
Also, this is not therapy.
I cannot tell you how to do adriving exposure in a podcast
episode, nor can I tell you whatdriving exposure to do.
I'm going to give you a verybroad overview of how an anxiety
therapist might help you designan exposure plan that targets
(03:39):
your fear of being too anxiousor experiencing panic while
driving.
We're going to talk broad brushhere and then you get to apply
the principles in your owncontext.
Another thing I have to saybecause we're talking about
driving you are responsible foryour own safety.
Now I can make every effort tobe supportive or encouraging or
educational in podcasts andvideos, but ultimately you have
(04:01):
to make the choice as to what issafe for you or not.
I'm going to state right nowthat if you feel that you are
incapable of safely operating amotor vehicle while you are
anxious especially if that feardrives you to actually make
unsafe choices while drivingwell then your better choice is
absolutely in-person help withsomeone that will get to know
(04:22):
you and better understand yourunique challenges and work with
you individually on this.
Do not take this podcastepisode with you in the car and
decide Drew said that I shoulddo this.
That's not a good idea.
So let's talk about the contextthat we're in here.
In this podcast episode, we aretalking about being afraid to
drive because of being veryanxious or maybe experiencing
(04:44):
panic while driving.
This is not just driving phobia, centered around the idea that
driving is dangerous or thatroads are too busy or I'm afraid
of having an accident, althoughyou may have drawn the
conclusion that you are anunsafe or unreliable driver
while driving, but this isbecause of how you feel.
So what we're talking abouttoday is not just simple driving
(05:07):
phobia.
This is a very specific casewhere I am afraid to drive
because of how I feel while Idrive.
If I didn't have this feeling,I would have no problem driving.
Yes, I understand there arerisks in driving, but I was a
great driver and I love to drive.
Just that now I'm panicking orI'm having high anxiety in the
car, and so I don't do it.
It's important to remember thatthis is a very specific context
(05:28):
.
And then, before we get into theactual meat and potatoes of the
episode, I have to acknowledgethose of you that maybe have
been in car accidents.
If you've been involved in aserious car accident, or you
even witnessed one, or somebodyclose to you was in one and was
highly impacted by that one, orsomebody close to you was in one
and was highly impacted by that, and now you find yourself
afraid to drive, that is aslightly different issue that
(05:49):
I'm really not directlyaddressing today.
Well, yes, there might beexposures involved in overcoming
that issue, and some anxiouspeople have that issue along
with driving anxiety as I talkabout it.
But we're really not directlyaddressing the driving fear that
resulted from an actualaccident either that you were in
or you saw or that haveimpacted somebody close to you.
(06:12):
So keep that in mind as well.
I can't cover every nuance ofevery topic in one, in a podcast
episode or a video.
So, those things being said,let's kind of get into this.
I want to talk about what Ithink is sort of four sort of
subcategories of this fear.
Now, again, I cannot coverevery possible iteration of
every possible variation ofthese fears, but we see kind of
(06:35):
four categories that I'm goingto talk about.
One would be it's too dangerousto drive while anxious.
Like you might relate to that.
I'll be so anxious and upsetthat I will lose control of
myself and that might make mecrash the car and I could hurt
myself or my family or others.
So many anxious people that havea driving phobia or a driving
anxiety will say this it's justtoo dangerous to drive while I'm
(06:57):
anxious because I can't controlmyself if I get that out of
control, right?
The second one is close to that, but it's not really.
This one is I think driving isdangerous and I'm afraid to do
it because I fear that I willget so anxious that I will
psychologically break and thenI'm going to turn the car into
sort of a weapon, but on purpose, right.
(07:20):
I fear that I will get soanxious that I will lose control
and then decide consciously,even though I don't want to, to
crash the car or smash it into astore full of people or drive
off the bridge or drive into theoverpass abutment, even though
I don't want to do that.
I'm terrified of doing that andI have no actual intention of
(07:41):
ever doing that.
But I believe that if I panicin the car and it gets too much,
I will break and then decide todo things that I don't want to
do.
So that's close to the firstsub fear, right.
I'll be so anxious that I won'tbe able to really control
things and therefore I willaccidentally crash the car and
cause a problem.
The second one is I will get soanxious or panicky while I'm
(08:02):
driving that I willpsychologically snap and I will
get so anxious or panicky whileI'm driving, that I will
psychologically snap and I willintentionally crash the car.
And that's often driven bythose thoughts that every human
brain is going to make, like, asyou're driving over a bridge,
like what would stop me fromjust driving off this bridge,
like every brain makes thosethoughts, and for people with
this particular sort ofsubvariant of driving anxiety,
those thoughts start to seemvery, very dangerous.
(08:24):
So that's the number two one.
Number three is well, I'm notreally worried about losing
control of myself or the car,but I just always panic while
driving, or while driving incertain places or maybe on
certain roads, and I simply donot want that to happen.
I cannot allow that.
The state of panic itself isthe feared outcome, and it
(08:46):
always happens when I drive, orwhen I drive, say, on the
highway.
So I can't do that anymore.
That sort of describes myexperience with driving anxiety.
Which was my biggest problemback in the day was the driving
thing.
This was me.
I never worried that I wasgoing to lose control or crash
the car.
I just didn't want to panic.
I would panic in the car allthe damn time.
So you might be one of thosepeople we're like no, I don't
(09:09):
see a car crash coming, like Iam able to control the car, but
I just don't want to panic anddriving is going to make me
panic so I won't do it.
And then the last one is alittle bit more nuanced and
specific.
But this one, the person wouldsay like well, I'm a little more
specific in my fear.
I get dizzy when I panic so Ican't possibly drive.
Or I have visual issues when Ipanic or get too anxious, which
(09:32):
means I can't possibly drive.
Or I get really scary thoughtswhen I get very anxious, which
means I can't possibly drivebecause I won't be able to
concentrate.
Insert whatever panic oranxiety symptom is scariest or
most disruptive to you and thatyou have possibly connected to
the act of driving.
So I know these all four mightbe hard to tell apart, but there
(09:54):
are people listening right nowand you might be one of them
that understand this Like no,it's really just about the fact
that I get very dizzy.
Or some people will say but ifI'm driving and I get really
anxious, my stomach is going tostart to act up and I might not
be able to get to a bathroom intime, and so their driving
anxiety is based on the factthat the anxiety will make me so
anxious that something bad isgoing to happen
(10:15):
gastrointestinally while I'mdriving.
Sometimes people would also.
I would give you maybe a fifthsubcategory, which is I don't
want to panic in front of theother people in my car.
So there are people that willdrive themselves happily all
over the world as long asthey're by themselves.
They just don't want to drivewith other people in the car or
can't be a passenger in someoneelse's car, because their
(10:38):
biggest fear is that I might getvery anxious and someone will
see that If you are a parent andyou're driving your kids around
, that becomes especiallyprevalent either, and then they
get combined.
I can't possibly drive my kidsaround because what if I get so
anxious that I cause a crash andI hurt my kids accidentally?
Or also I can't let them seethat.
(10:58):
So, as you can see, there'sfour or five sort of
subcategories here that fallunder driving anxiety.
Again, there's an infinitenumber of variations of these
because everybody's a little bitdifferent and we all are unique
.
But these are sort of thesubcategories.
Maybe it helps you to see whichone you fall in, but in the end
it's not going to really matterthat much.
Hear me out.
(11:20):
I'm going to ask you a couple ofquestions here.
The first I'm going to reallyask you one question, and that
would be is driving really theonly place that you're anxious
Like?
Is that really your onlytrigger or avoidant area is
driving?
There is a really good play.
There's a really good chancethat you have more things right
now that you avoid, and it's notjust driving.
(11:43):
Now, the reason why I say thatis not to accuse you of like
making stuff up or not knowingyourself, but since the driving
itself is not really the problemin driving anxiety right, it's
how you feel.
That's what I said in thebeginning when I said our
context is I'm afraid to drivebecause of how I feel when I
drive, like my internalexperience when I drive.
(12:04):
So if you're still afraid ofyour internal experience, which
would be anxiety or thoughts orbig emotions or physical
sensations that happen inside ofyou, if you're afraid of them
while you drive, then there's areally good chance that you're
afraid of them in other placestoo.
So driving anxiety the waywe're sort of describing it
(12:25):
today, doesn't really exist in avacuum.
Now it is possible that you arefurther down the road to
recovery and you feel likedriving is the last thing you
have left.
But I would start to ask do youhave other anxiety or panic
triggers that you're just sortof managing right now, right?
So driving anxiety is just oneof many forms of anxiety and
(12:49):
driving is just one of the manytriggers or avoidances, and that
can be addressed by working onthe other triggers and avoidant
reactions.
So, for instance, I got muchbetter at driving on the Long
Island Expressway when I wasn'tso afraid to be home alone
anymore.
And that might sound weird,right, what is this guy talking
about?
What does one got to do withthe other?
(13:10):
But the fact of the matter wasI didn't want to drive on the
Long Island Expressway because Iwas afraid to experience those
panic sensations and thosethoughts.
You know, if it all comes downto how you feel when you drive
because that's what we'retalking about here any place
that you can confront that andpractice that and allow that and
work on dropping yourmanagement, control, mitigation
(13:31):
or avoidance strategies wouldhelp you while driving as well.
So it's really important to lookat that.
Is this really my only trigger?
It might be the one that mostimpacts your life because,
especially if you live in asuburban or a rural area where
there's no mass transit, drivingis important.
I get that, so it may be themost impactful.
But ask yourself, what else amI doing to try to manage how I
(13:53):
feel every day?
A lot of people can find eatingand drinking habits like very
rigid sleep habits, very rigidself-care routines.
They have certain people theydon't want to talk to.
I still can't watch the news.
I can't watch this kind ofmovie, I can't read this kind of
book, I can't talk about thistopic, but can you help me with
my driving anxiety?
Well, it's really hard to workon the driving anxiety if you're
(14:15):
still afraid that you mightpanic at the kitchen table if
you accidentally see a clip of amovie that would trigger you.
So we have to work on all ofthis at one time.
Work on all of the anxiety, allof the triggers.
They all come along for theride together, pardon the pun.
So I'd ask you to think aboutthat.
The other thing that I want totalk about is that it is
(14:38):
possible to practice thesymptoms of anxiety and panic
without driving right.
So this is where we useinteroceptive exposures.
These are a perfectlyacceptable and very useful way
to begin to address the fear ofdriving, especially if you are
very somatically based.
If you are worried about thedizziness or the racing heart.
(14:59):
Or I get short of breath when Iget so anxious it feels like I
can't breathe.
What if I pass out while I'mdriving because it feels like I
can't breathe?
We can actually useinteroceptive exposure, which
does not involve driving at all.
You could do them right in yourliving room to help you work on
, on tolerating and movingthrough and forming a new
relationship with each of thosesensations.
(15:21):
There are ways to make yourheart race.
There are ways to feel short,out of breath.
There's a way, there are waysto feel dizzy.
There are ways to tax yourmuscles so that they start to
feel a little wobbly Like.
We can use interoceptiveexposures to help you work
directly on your fear of thesymptoms that you think mean you
can't drive.
So you might think that I onlyhave to, I only can do driving
(15:44):
exposures and I would say no, ifyou're very symptom focused,
you can actually useinteroceptives to work on your
driving anxiety.
Again, I can't give youspecifics because I can't
possibly know all 30,000 of youthat are going to listen to this
podcast episode.
But we can do that.
You can start working on yourdriving anxiety by working on
the symptoms outside of drivingby interoceptive exposures.
(16:06):
Another thing you can do wouldbe to use imaginal exposures.
Those also can work withdriving, and this is especially
true if you're the type ofperson who harbors the fear of
losing control or, eitherunintentionally or intentionally
, because you've had some sortof psychotic break causing a
car-related catastrophe.
In this case, marginalexposures might involve writing
(16:27):
scripts and stories about thisnightmare in great detail.
The worst thing you can imagine.
Then you're going to read orrepeat those on a regular basis.
The object of the game is tointentionally trigger yourself,
then allow that discomfort tocome and go without taking
evasive actions.
That is how we do interoceptiveexposures.
Again, if you have a therapistor a counselor somebody trained
(16:48):
that you're working with, theycan help you with this.
I can't tell you exactly how todo it in a podcast episode or a
video, but imaginal exposuresespecially if your driving
anxiety is related to the fearedoutcome of losing control of
the car or losing control ofyour mind and then losing
control of the car we can usethat to your advantage.
So if you work on imaginalexposures.
(17:10):
You don't ever even have to getin the car to do that.
Although it is quite effectiveto sit in the car and do that,
that makes it doubly triggeringin many instances.
I've done that with a couple ofclients already.
But you don't have to drive thecar to do an imaginal exposure.
So, as ridiculous as it sounds,if you need to work on your
driving anxiety and you're verylike loss of control, it's going
(17:30):
to cause a nightmare.
You might be able to actuallyaddress your driving anxiety in
your living room with animaginal.
Now the last thing I want totouch on is well, there's a
couple of things.
The last thing I want to touchon gets to the exposure stuff
and and some of this is aboutnot actually knowing how to do a
driving exposure this is areally common one.
People often want to do drivingexposures, but they sometimes
(17:54):
miss the mark or they hold sortof misguided or incorrect
beliefs about this kind ofexposure.
Always remember this is superimportant.
I repeat it in almost everypodcast episode that has an
exposure element it's thefeeling, that's the exposure.
I'll say it again the feelingis the exposure.
The driving is not the exposure.
(18:16):
The act of driving is not theexposure.
The highway is not the exposure.
Being too far from home is notthe exposure.
Those are only the things thattrigger the feeling.
Remember, in this context I amafraid to drive because of how I
feel, what my internalexperiences, thoughts, emotions,
beliefs, bodily sensations.
(18:37):
I'm only afraid to drivebecause of what goes on inside
me if I drive, or drive incertain places or on certain
roads.
The exposure is the difficultinternal experience.
The driving is only the trigger.
So really we use the driving totrigger the discomfort.
That's all that is.
So this is important because ifyou forget this, you may
(19:00):
totally miss the mark on how tostart with actual driving
exposures.
So I'll give you a couple ofexamples here, and some of them
I had to go through.
If you panic or you start toget absolutely beside yourself
or very anxious the minute youpick up your car keys before
you've even walked out the door,that's a driving exposure.
You might have to practicepanicking holding the car keys
(19:22):
at your front door or in yourliving room.
There's no need to actuallydrive if that's enough to help
trigger panic that you couldpractice moving through.
If you panic in the driveway oryou get really anxious in the
driveway without even turningthe car on, that's a driving
exposure.
If you panic only 100 yardsfrom your house, that's a
driving exposure.
So sometimes we forget that theexposure is to the feeling, not
(19:47):
the actual driving or the placeor the roads you drive on.
So driving exposure isn't aboutpracticing driving.
It's not about practicinggetting far from home.
It's not about practicing beingon the highway.
It's about practicing beinganxious and afraid.
So I would urge you, if you'reconfused by this or don't know
how to start, loosen yourinterpretation, widen your view
(20:09):
a little bit, kind of be nicerto yourself and allow yourself
to practice in smaller steps,because they count too.
It is 100% a useful drivingexposure to sit in your driveway
, not even turn the car on, andhave to take 10 minutes to work
through a really big anxietyspike or a stream of, you know,
of really scary thoughts or afull panic attack.
(20:31):
That would count a hundredpercent.
If you were my therapy client,I would applaud you for doing
that.
I wouldn't tell you that, like,well, you still got a long way
to go because he didn't drive200 miles today.
That's not correct.
So start where you are, thatcounts.
And if it's in your living roomholding your car keys still
counts.
I wouldn't call that a failure.
I would applaud the, you know,applaud the work.
(20:51):
If you were doing it, you weremy client.
So let's talk about avoidance.
This is another thing thatpeople often get really confused
about or they criticizethemselves because they don't
understand what avoidance lookslike in the context of driving
anxiety and driving exposure.
Pulling over meaning you'redriving and you start to get
really uncomfortable and youthink that the right thing to do
(21:12):
is pull over and stop the car.
That is not avoidance, becausewhat's you know what's going to
happen?
You're going to have to workthrough those, those scary
feelings while you're sitting onthe side of the road, and it's
the scary feelings that we careabout, it's not the act of
driving.
So it's perfectly okay,especially in the beginning of
doing driving exposure, to pullover and let the feeling pass.
(21:36):
We don't want to pull over andlaunch into 16,000 coping
techniques and calmingtechniques.
We want to pull over and let itrise and fall naturally, then
start driving again.
Pulling over is not avoidanceand it's not failure.
I cannot say that enough.
Now, of course, safety tipdon't pull over in a place where
you can't pull over.
So if you're starting yourdriving exposures and you feel
(21:59):
like you do really have to pullover quite a bit, then if I was
your therapist, I would becareful about what route we
mapped out to make sure that youcan pull over safely.
Please keep that in mind.
Right, listening to the radio,talking to a friend singing
along with a song, listening toa podcast not this one to calm
down?
Sorry, I had to throw that inthere, but those are also not
(22:22):
avoidance.
If you can practice allowingpanic on the side of the road,
then great.
If you can allow being veryuncomfortable while driving and
singing along with the radio, orwhile you're maybe having a
conversation with your partneror your friend, great.
Like avoidance is what we callit when we intentionally try to
one, prevent the scary feelings.
Or two, manually operate thosefeelings to turn them down on
(22:47):
demand.
Or, three, try to intentionallyrun away from them.
Right.
So those are, those are thethree things, the hallmarks of
avoidance.
I'm going to don't do anythingthat might trigger me.
That's avoidance.
Or when I do get triggered, I'mgoing to launch into all kinds
of like coping strategies andcalming strategies that make me
(23:07):
believe that somehow I can turnknobs and pull levers in my
nervous system to intentionallycalm down quickly.
Nope, that's avoidance and wedon't want to do stuff to run
away from it.
Meaning the minute I start toget anxious, I quickly drive
home to get away from it.
Those are the avoidances pullingover, turning on the radio,
listening to a podcast, talkingto a friend, like, if your drive
(23:29):
with anxiety looks like thedrive that you might have
without anxiety, then you arewinning.
If you can bring the feelingswith you, then, however way you
do that, it's okay.
You can learn from that.
Super important.
And then the last thing that Iwant to say before I start to
wrap it up is don't forget thelearning part.
Do not forget that it's themost important part.
(23:52):
So people get stuck on thedriving, or the distance, or the
end goal or the outcome.
I have to be able to drive tomy grandma's house and that's 60
miles away.
All right, cool, I mean you canwork on going to your grandma's
house.
There's nothing wrong with that.
But do not forget that going toyour grandma's house is not
really the goal, that's not theoutcome, that's not what you're
(24:12):
trying to focus on when youaddress driving anxiety just
like any other form of anxietythat we talked about in this
podcast, you're trying to learnsomething from your experiences.
The exposures are classrooms.
So if you have a panic attack,for instance, two miles from
home, when for the last threeweeks you've been regularly
driving 10 miles with no issue,that is still a learning
(24:35):
experience, not a failure.
Do not forget this part.
Everybody forgets this part.
Now, if you panic two milesfrom home after you've been
reliably going 50 miles fromhome, I understand that you
might feel frustrated, thatmight upset you.
You're allowed to have emotionsand opinions about that.
Just be careful about decidingthat was failure.
(24:55):
Anytime you can practice movingthrough that big, triggered,
horrible state that you thinkshould never happen, you are
winning.
So your your goal is to learnfrom that every time it happens,
whenever it happens and howeverit happens.
I often use the silly clicheit's right out of college
football coaching that we neverlose.
(25:17):
Here we either win or learn.
Do not forget the learning partEvery time you pick up those
keys.
If you still have some level ofdriving anxiety, remind
yourself quietly that I might beable to learn something today
about myself, about my abilityto navigate, about my ability to
be psychologically flexible, Imight learn something about
(25:38):
anxiety.
I might learn something everytime I pick up those keys.
What can I learn?
That's what we need.
That's the goal of the exposurein driving anxiety and anything
else.
Your goal is not to learn howto drive.
Your goal is to learn that it'ssafe to feel those feelings and
have those thoughts.
If you're not afraid of thefeelings or the thoughts or the
(25:59):
sensations anymore, then there'sno reason to fear driving
anymore.
So think about that.
Don't forget the learning part.
It's super important.
So that's kind of the drivinganxiety thing.
We've covered a lot of stuff.
We talked about the contextthat we're in.
We had a couple of disclaimersat the at the start.
Sorry, but I had to do that.
We had to acknowledge that somepeople have in fact been in car
(26:20):
accidents.
That's a little bit of adifferent animal.
We talked about the differentfour or five different sort of
sub fears or sub genres ofdriving anxiety.
You can decide which one yousort of fit in.
Maybe you fit in multiple.
And then we talked aboutexpanding your view.
Is driving really the onlyplace where you're anxious?
Is that the only place whereyou're avoiding triggers and
trying to manage things?
We talked about practicingsymptoms with interoceptives.
(26:42):
We talked about using imaginalexposures.
Both of those things havenothing to do with actually
being in the car on the road.
We talked about misconceptionsabout how to do a driving
exposure or what it means.
We talked about what isavoidance and what it is not in
a driving exposure.
So we got a lot of good stuffhere and we finished by saying
don't forget the part where youlearn from the experience.
(27:05):
And before I sort of wrap it up,just a quick reminder that
professional help can be reallyhelpful here.
I understand it can be hard tofind an exposure therapist.
I did a talk last fall that Idid a lot of research for and
the data on how difficult it isfor therapists to do exposure is
shocking and I know it's hardto find those of us that sort of
(27:26):
specialize in this and arewilling to do this work.
But it really is the best wayif you can find it and access it
.
Professional help when tryingto develop an exposure plan for
driving anxiety is really,really useful.
I have therapy clients that areovercoming driving anxiety and
panic while driving and theystarted with spinning around in
their kitchen chairs.
I have two people like thatright now actually, and they're
(27:49):
actually doing much betterdriving because of the
interoceptive exposures.
In that case that worked out.
But guess what?
They didn't know that.
They had no idea that thatcould be a thing.
They just needed a little bitof help and there's no crime in
that.
So if you can access it, if youcan get to it, having somebody
to help you see these things andthen build an effective
hierarchy is a good idea.
(28:10):
Otherwise you might see like,okay, I know, I have to.
You know, willfully tolerateand do exposures.
You might think that only meansthat I have to get in the car
and drive my 4000 pound machineto a spot far enough from home,
or it doesn't count.
And that's just not true.
So if you can get the help, ifyou can access it, if you can,
if you can find it and access it, consider it, it can be very
(28:33):
helpful.
So that's it, that is episode.
What episode is this?
That's episode 315 in the books, talking about driving anxiety
and exposures for drivinganxiety.
What am I going to tell you towrap it up?
Oh, I'll do the usual.
Remember, there's other goodiesat my website, on
theanxioustruthcom, so go istruthcom.
So go check those out.
If you're listening to thepodcast on Apple podcast or
Spotify and you can leave arating or review, maybe leave a
(28:55):
five star rating if I've helpedyou today or taught you
something today or ever, and ifyou really like this podcast,
maybe write a quick review, justa couple of sentences saying
why it's good, that helps otherpeople find the podcast and more
people get help, and then Ifeel good, of course.
If you're watching on YouTube orreally today would be listening
on YouTube like the video,subscribe to the channel, hit
the notification bell.
You know all the YouTube stuffI'm tired of talking about.
(29:17):
And what else can I tell you?
With driving anxiety, I know itmight seem like this is just
absolutely impossible, but anyday, any time, you can change
direction.
Open up your mind.
Not open up your mind, but openyourself up to different
experiences.
Be willing to loosen your gripa little bit and at least
consider that I might be able tomove through this fear, even if
(29:40):
I have to start drivingexposures in my kitchen.
It counts.
Do not discount the tiny littlesteps you take.
Every time you open yourself upto something that you thought
was impossible or that youshouldn't do, you could be
learning, which means you'restarting to win, and it all
counts.
It will all add up.
Keep going, be patient, be niceto yourself, root for yourself,
(30:01):
because I'm going to root foryou, even though I don't know
you're doing it.
I'll still root for yousilently, and that's it.
Thanks for hanging out today.
Hope you found it helpful.
I will see you in two weeks.
Don't know what we're going totalk about, but we'll talk about
something.
Take care of yourself.
I'll be back next time you.
What if you panic while you drive?
What if you're so anxious aboutdriving, or so anxious while in
the car that you've stoppeddriving because you've developed
the fear of doing that?
And what if it's sort ofrestricting or even sort of
ruining your life?
Well, this is a topic that'snear and dear to many hearts
among listeners of the AnxiousTruth.
So this week we're going totalk about driving anxiety and
(00:22):
approaching driving anxietyusing exposure methods.
So let's get to it.
Hello everybody, welcome backto the Anxious Truth.
This is episode 316.
Nope, this is episode 315 ofthe podcast we are recording in
April of 2025, in case you arelistening from the future.
(00:43):
The Anxious Truth is the podcastand YouTube channel that talks
about all things anxiety,anxiety disorders and anxiety
recovery.
If you have just stumbled uponthe podcast or the YouTube
channel today, welcome.
I hope you find this helpfuland, of course, if you are a
returning listener or viewer,welcome back.
Glad you're here.
Thanks for spending some timewith me.
I am Drew Linsalata.
I am the creator and host ofthe Anxious Truth.
(01:04):
I'm also a therapist practicingin the area of anxiety and
anxiety disorders in New York inthe US of A.
I'm a three-time author on thistopic a psychoeducator, an
advocate and a former suffererof panic disorder, agoraphobia,
ocd and depression for manyyears of my life, on and off,
but doing much better now, andactually for many years.
So today we're going to talkabout driving anxiety and
(01:27):
exposure for driving anxiety.
Before we do, just a quickreminder that there are more
goodies beyond just this podcastepisode or YouTube video on my
website at theanxioustruthcom,most of which is free.
Anything that does carry a costis like a book, which is really
inexpensive, or maybe aworkshop that's very inexpensive
.
Anyway, go check it out, followalong with all the other
(01:47):
podcast episodes, follow alongon social media and avail
yourself of all the goodies attheanxioustruthcom.
So, driving anxiety.
Let's talk about drivinganxiety because it might be one
of the top five topics thatpeople want me to address here
on this podcast or on theDisordered podcast that I do
with Josh Fletcher, which, bythe way, you can find at
disorderedfm.
Driving anxiety is one of themost often talked about
(02:10):
struggles and it's one of thetopics people want to hear about
the most.
I have talked about drivinganxiety before.
There's several previouspodcast episodes about this, and
I think we did one onDisordered, but today I want to
specifically address drivinganxiety as it relates to
exposure type therapies orexposure approaches to these
kind of fears.
Now a couple of things before Iget into it.
(02:31):
There's no video today.
If you're watching on YouTube,you're looking at a still image,
and there's a reason for that.
Hear me out.
People will probably want tobring this episode with them
when they drive because theythink I'm going to give them
instructions or it might calmthem down while driving.
I would prefer you not do that.
I never record podcast episodesto give you real-time
(02:53):
instruction while doingexposures of any kind, and I
would really like it if peopledidn't immediately listen to
this podcast to calm down.
The irony of doing an anxietydisorder podcast that then
becomes a safety or copingmechanism is not lost on me.
Can't stop you from doing it,but I would prefer that you did
not do that and I intentionallydid not record video so that if
(03:16):
you are gonna drive whilelistening to this, there's
nothing to watch.
Keep your eyes on the road.
Also, this is not therapy.
I cannot tell you how to do adriving exposure in a podcast
episode, nor can I tell you whatdriving exposure to do.
I'm going to give you a verybroad overview of how an anxiety
therapist might help you designan exposure plan that targets
(03:39):
your fear of being too anxiousor experiencing panic while
driving.
We're going to talk broad brushhere and then you get to apply
the principles in your owncontext.
Another thing I have to saybecause we're talking about
driving you are responsible foryour own safety.
Now I can make every effort tobe supportive or encouraging or
educational in podcasts andvideos, but ultimately you have
(04:01):
to make the choice as to what issafe for you or not.
I'm going to state right nowthat if you feel that you are
incapable of safely operating amotor vehicle while you are
anxious especially if that feardrives you to actually make
unsafe choices while drivingwell then your better choice is
absolutely in-person help withsomeone that will get to know
(04:22):
you and better understand yourunique challenges and work with
you individually on this.
Do not take this podcastepisode with you in the car and
decide Drew said that I shoulddo this.
That's not a good idea.
So let's talk about the contextthat we're in here.
In this podcast episode, we aretalking about being afraid to
drive because of being veryanxious or maybe experiencing
(04:44):
panic while driving.
This is not just driving phobia, centered around the idea that
driving is dangerous or thatroads are too busy or I'm afraid
of having an accident, althoughyou may have drawn the
conclusion that you are anunsafe or unreliable driver
while driving, but this isbecause of how you feel.
So what we're talking abouttoday is not just simple driving
(05:07):
phobia.
This is a very specific casewhere I am afraid to drive
because of how I feel while Idrive.
If I didn't have this feeling,I would have no problem driving.
Yes, I understand there arerisks in driving, but I was a
great driver and I love to drive.
Just that now I'm panicking orI'm having high anxiety in the
car, and so I don't do it.
It's important to remember thatthis is a very specific context
(05:28):
.
And then, before we get into theactual meat and potatoes of the
episode, I have to acknowledgethose of you that maybe have
been in car accidents.
If you've been involved in aserious car accident, or you
even witnessed one, or somebodyclose to you was in one and was
highly impacted by that one, orsomebody close to you was in one
and was highly impacted by that, and now you find yourself
afraid to drive, that is aslightly different issue that
(05:49):
I'm really not directlyaddressing today.
Well, yes, there might beexposures involved in overcoming
that issue, and some anxiouspeople have that issue along
with driving anxiety as I talkabout it.
But we're really not directlyaddressing the driving fear that
resulted from an actualaccident either that you were in
or you saw or that haveimpacted somebody close to you.
(06:12):
So keep that in mind as well.
I can't cover every nuance ofevery topic in one, in a podcast
episode or a video.
So, those things being said,let's kind of get into this.
I want to talk about what Ithink is sort of four sort of
subcategories of this fear.
Now, again, I cannot coverevery possible iteration of
every possible variation ofthese fears, but we see kind of
(06:35):
four categories that I'm goingto talk about.
One would be it's too dangerousto drive while anxious.
Like you might relate to that.
I'll be so anxious and upsetthat I will lose control of
myself and that might make mecrash the car and I could hurt
myself or my family or others.
So many anxious people that havea driving phobia or a driving
anxiety will say this it's justtoo dangerous to drive while I'm
(06:57):
anxious because I can't controlmyself if I get that out of
control, right?
The second one is close to that, but it's not really.
This one is I think driving isdangerous and I'm afraid to do
it because I fear that I willget so anxious that I will
psychologically break and thenI'm going to turn the car into
sort of a weapon, but on purpose, right.
(07:20):
I fear that I will get soanxious that I will lose control
and then decide consciously,even though I don't want to, to
crash the car or smash it into astore full of people or drive
off the bridge or drive into theoverpass abutment, even though
I don't want to do that.
I'm terrified of doing that andI have no actual intention of
(07:41):
ever doing that.
But I believe that if I panicin the car and it gets too much,
I will break and then decide todo things that I don't want to
do.
So that's close to the firstsub fear, right.
I'll be so anxious that I won'tbe able to really control
things and therefore I willaccidentally crash the car and
cause a problem.
The second one is I will get soanxious or panicky while I'm
(08:02):
driving that I willpsychologically snap and I will
get so anxious or panicky whileI'm driving, that I will
psychologically snap and I willintentionally crash the car.
And that's often driven bythose thoughts that every human
brain is going to make, like, asyou're driving over a bridge,
like what would stop me fromjust driving off this bridge,
like every brain makes thosethoughts, and for people with
this particular sort ofsubvariant of driving anxiety,
those thoughts start to seemvery, very dangerous.
(08:24):
So that's the number two one.
Number three is well, I'm notreally worried about losing
control of myself or the car,but I just always panic while
driving, or while driving incertain places or maybe on
certain roads, and I simply donot want that to happen.
I cannot allow that.
The state of panic itself isthe feared outcome, and it
(08:46):
always happens when I drive, orwhen I drive, say, on the
highway.
So I can't do that anymore.
That sort of describes myexperience with driving anxiety.
Which was my biggest problemback in the day was the driving
thing.
This was me.
I never worried that I wasgoing to lose control or crash
the car.
I just didn't want to panic.
I would panic in the car allthe damn time.
So you might be one of thosepeople we're like no, I don't
(09:09):
see a car crash coming, like Iam able to control the car, but
I just don't want to panic anddriving is going to make me
panic so I won't do it.
And then the last one is alittle bit more nuanced and
specific.
But this one, the person wouldsay like well, I'm a little more
specific in my fear.
I get dizzy when I panic so Ican't possibly drive.
Or I have visual issues when Ipanic or get too anxious, which
(09:32):
means I can't possibly drive.
Or I get really scary thoughtswhen I get very anxious, which
means I can't possibly drivebecause I won't be able to
concentrate.
Insert whatever panic oranxiety symptom is scariest or
most disruptive to you and thatyou have possibly connected to
the act of driving.
So I know these all four mightbe hard to tell apart, but there
(09:54):
are people listening right nowand you might be one of them
that understand this Like no,it's really just about the fact
that I get very dizzy.
Or some people will say but ifI'm driving and I get really
anxious, my stomach is going tostart to act up and I might not
be able to get to a bathroom intime, and so their driving
anxiety is based on the factthat the anxiety will make me so
anxious that something bad isgoing to happen
(10:15):
gastrointestinally while I'mdriving.
Sometimes people would also.
I would give you maybe a fifthsubcategory, which is I don't
want to panic in front of theother people in my car.
So there are people that willdrive themselves happily all
over the world as long asthey're by themselves.
They just don't want to drivewith other people in the car or
can't be a passenger in someoneelse's car, because their
(10:38):
biggest fear is that I might getvery anxious and someone will
see that If you are a parent andyou're driving your kids around
, that becomes especiallyprevalent either, and then they
get combined.
I can't possibly drive my kidsaround because what if I get so
anxious that I cause a crash andI hurt my kids accidentally?
Or also I can't let them seethat.
(10:58):
So, as you can see, there'sfour or five sort of
subcategories here that fallunder driving anxiety.
Again, there's an infinitenumber of variations of these
because everybody's a little bitdifferent and we all are unique
.
But these are sort of thesubcategories.
Maybe it helps you to see whichone you fall in, but in the end
it's not going to really matterthat much.
Hear me out.
(11:20):
I'm going to ask you a couple ofquestions here.
The first I'm going to reallyask you one question, and that
would be is driving really theonly place that you're anxious
Like?
Is that really your onlytrigger or avoidant area is
driving?
There is a really good play.
There's a really good chancethat you have more things right
now that you avoid, and it's notjust driving.
(11:43):
Now, the reason why I say thatis not to accuse you of like
making stuff up or not knowingyourself, but since the driving
itself is not really the problemin driving anxiety right, it's
how you feel.
That's what I said in thebeginning when I said our
context is I'm afraid to drivebecause of how I feel when I
drive, like my internalexperience when I drive.
(12:04):
So if you're still afraid ofyour internal experience, which
would be anxiety or thoughts orbig emotions or physical
sensations that happen inside ofyou, if you're afraid of them
while you drive, then there's areally good chance that you're
afraid of them in other placestoo.
So driving anxiety the waywe're sort of describing it
(12:25):
today, doesn't really exist in avacuum.
Now it is possible that you arefurther down the road to
recovery and you feel likedriving is the last thing you
have left.
But I would start to ask do youhave other anxiety or panic
triggers that you're just sortof managing right now, right?
So driving anxiety is just oneof many forms of anxiety and
(12:49):
driving is just one of the manytriggers or avoidances, and that
can be addressed by working onthe other triggers and avoidant
reactions.
So, for instance, I got muchbetter at driving on the Long
Island Expressway when I wasn'tso afraid to be home alone
anymore.
And that might sound weird,right, what is this guy talking
about?
What does one got to do withthe other?
(13:10):
But the fact of the matter wasI didn't want to drive on the
Long Island Expressway because Iwas afraid to experience those
panic sensations and thosethoughts.
You know, if it all comes downto how you feel when you drive
because that's what we'retalking about here any place
that you can confront that andpractice that and allow that and
work on dropping yourmanagement, control, mitigation
(13:31):
or avoidance strategies wouldhelp you while driving as well.
So it's really important to lookat that.
Is this really my only trigger?
It might be the one that mostimpacts your life because,
especially if you live in asuburban or a rural area where
there's no mass transit, drivingis important.
I get that, so it may be themost impactful.
But ask yourself, what else amI doing to try to manage how I
(13:53):
feel every day?
A lot of people can find eatingand drinking habits like very
rigid sleep habits, very rigidself-care routines.
They have certain people theydon't want to talk to.
I still can't watch the news.
I can't watch this kind ofmovie, I can't read this kind of
book, I can't talk about thistopic, but can you help me with
my driving anxiety?
Well, it's really hard to workon the driving anxiety if you're
(14:15):
still afraid that you mightpanic at the kitchen table if
you accidentally see a clip of amovie that would trigger you.
So we have to work on all ofthis at one time.
Work on all of the anxiety, allof the triggers.
They all come along for theride together, pardon the pun.
So I'd ask you to think aboutthat.
The other thing that I want totalk about is that it is
(14:38):
possible to practice thesymptoms of anxiety and panic
without driving right.
So this is where we useinteroceptive exposures.
These are a perfectlyacceptable and very useful way
to begin to address the fear ofdriving, especially if you are
very somatically based.
If you are worried about thedizziness or the racing heart.
(14:59):
Or I get short of breath when Iget so anxious it feels like I
can't breathe.
What if I pass out while I'mdriving because it feels like I
can't breathe?
We can actually useinteroceptive exposure, which
does not involve driving at all.
You could do them right in yourliving room to help you work on
, on tolerating and movingthrough and forming a new
relationship with each of thosesensations.
(15:21):
There are ways to make yourheart race.
There are ways to feel short,out of breath.
There's a way, there are waysto feel dizzy.
There are ways to tax yourmuscles so that they start to
feel a little wobbly Like.
We can use interoceptiveexposures to help you work
directly on your fear of thesymptoms that you think mean you
can't drive.
So you might think that I onlyhave to, I only can do driving
(15:44):
exposures and I would say no, ifyou're very symptom focused,
you can actually useinteroceptives to work on your
driving anxiety.
Again, I can't give youspecifics because I can't
possibly know all 30,000 of youthat are going to listen to this
podcast episode.
But we can do that.
You can start working on yourdriving anxiety by working on
the symptoms outside of drivingby interoceptive exposures.
(16:06):
Another thing you can do wouldbe to use imaginal exposures.
Those also can work withdriving, and this is especially
true if you're the type ofperson who harbors the fear of
losing control or, eitherunintentionally or intentionally
, because you've had some sortof psychotic break causing a
car-related catastrophe.
In this case, marginalexposures might involve writing
(16:27):
scripts and stories about thisnightmare in great detail.
The worst thing you can imagine.
Then you're going to read orrepeat those on a regular basis.
The object of the game is tointentionally trigger yourself,
then allow that discomfort tocome and go without taking
evasive actions.
That is how we do interoceptiveexposures.
Again, if you have a therapistor a counselor somebody trained
(16:48):
that you're working with, theycan help you with this.
I can't tell you exactly how todo it in a podcast episode or a
video, but imaginal exposuresespecially if your driving
anxiety is related to the fearedoutcome of losing control of
the car or losing control ofyour mind and then losing
control of the car we can usethat to your advantage.
So if you work on imaginalexposures.
(17:10):
You don't ever even have to getin the car to do that.
Although it is quite effectiveto sit in the car and do that,
that makes it doubly triggeringin many instances.
I've done that with a couple ofclients already.
But you don't have to drive thecar to do an imaginal exposure.
So, as ridiculous as it sounds,if you need to work on your
driving anxiety and you're verylike loss of control, it's going
(17:30):
to cause a nightmare.
You might be able to actuallyaddress your driving anxiety in
your living room with animaginal.
Now the last thing I want totouch on is well, there's a
couple of things.
The last thing I want to touchon gets to the exposure stuff
and and some of this is aboutnot actually knowing how to do a
driving exposure this is areally common one.
People often want to do drivingexposures, but they sometimes
(17:54):
miss the mark or they hold sortof misguided or incorrect
beliefs about this kind ofexposure.
Always remember this is superimportant.
I repeat it in almost everypodcast episode that has an
exposure element it's thefeeling, that's the exposure.
I'll say it again the feelingis the exposure.
The driving is not the exposure.
(18:16):
The act of driving is not theexposure.
The highway is not the exposure.
Being too far from home is notthe exposure.
Those are only the things thattrigger the feeling.
Remember, in this context I amafraid to drive because of how I
feel, what my internalexperiences, thoughts, emotions,
beliefs, bodily sensations.
(18:37):
I'm only afraid to drivebecause of what goes on inside
me if I drive, or drive incertain places or on certain
roads.
The exposure is the difficultinternal experience.
The driving is only the trigger.
So really we use the driving totrigger the discomfort.
That's all that is.
So this is important because ifyou forget this, you may
(19:00):
totally miss the mark on how tostart with actual driving
exposures.
So I'll give you a couple ofexamples here, and some of them
I had to go through.
If you panic or you start toget absolutely beside yourself
or very anxious the minute youpick up your car keys before
you've even walked out the door,that's a driving exposure.
You might have to practicepanicking holding the car keys
(19:22):
at your front door or in yourliving room.
There's no need to actuallydrive if that's enough to help
trigger panic that you couldpractice moving through.
If you panic in the driveway oryou get really anxious in the
driveway without even turningthe car on, that's a driving
exposure.
If you panic only 100 yardsfrom your house, that's a
driving exposure.
So sometimes we forget that theexposure is to the feeling, not
(19:47):
the actual driving or the placeor the roads you drive on.
So driving exposure isn't aboutpracticing driving.
It's not about practicinggetting far from home.
It's not about practicing beingon the highway.
It's about practicing beinganxious and afraid.
So I would urge you, if you'reconfused by this or don't know
how to start, loosen yourinterpretation, widen your view
(20:09):
a little bit, kind of be nicerto yourself and allow yourself
to practice in smaller steps,because they count too.
It is 100% a useful drivingexposure to sit in your driveway
, not even turn the car on, andhave to take 10 minutes to work
through a really big anxietyspike or a stream of, you know,
of really scary thoughts or afull panic attack.
(20:31):
That would count a hundredpercent.
If you were my therapy client,I would applaud you for doing
that.
I wouldn't tell you that, like,well, you still got a long way
to go because he didn't drive200 miles today.
That's not correct.
So start where you are, thatcounts.
And if it's in your living roomholding your car keys still
counts.
I wouldn't call that a failure.
I would applaud the, you know,applaud the work.
(20:51):
If you were doing it, you weremy client.
So let's talk about avoidance.
This is another thing thatpeople often get really confused
about or they criticizethemselves because they don't
understand what avoidance lookslike in the context of driving
anxiety and driving exposure.
Pulling over meaning you'redriving and you start to get
really uncomfortable and youthink that the right thing to do
(21:12):
is pull over and stop the car.
That is not avoidance, becausewhat's you know what's going to
happen?
You're going to have to workthrough those, those scary
feelings while you're sitting onthe side of the road, and it's
the scary feelings that we careabout, it's not the act of
driving.
So it's perfectly okay,especially in the beginning of
doing driving exposure, to pullover and let the feeling pass.
(21:36):
We don't want to pull over andlaunch into 16,000 coping
techniques and calmingtechniques.
We want to pull over and let itrise and fall naturally, then
start driving again.
Pulling over is not avoidanceand it's not failure.
I cannot say that enough.
Now, of course, safety tipdon't pull over in a place where
you can't pull over.
So if you're starting yourdriving exposures and you feel
(21:59):
like you do really have to pullover quite a bit, then if I was
your therapist, I would becareful about what route we
mapped out to make sure that youcan pull over safely.
Please keep that in mind.
Right, listening to the radio,talking to a friend singing
along with a song, listening toa podcast not this one to calm
down?
Sorry, I had to throw that inthere, but those are also not
(22:22):
avoidance.
If you can practice allowingpanic on the side of the road,
then great.
If you can allow being veryuncomfortable while driving and
singing along with the radio, orwhile you're maybe having a
conversation with your partneror your friend, great.
Like avoidance is what we callit when we intentionally try to
one, prevent the scary feelings.
Or two, manually operate thosefeelings to turn them down on
(22:47):
demand.
Or, three, try to intentionallyrun away from them.
Right.
So those are, those are thethree things, the hallmarks of
avoidance.
I'm going to don't do anythingthat might trigger me.
That's avoidance.
Or when I do get triggered, I'mgoing to launch into all kinds
of like coping strategies andcalming strategies that make me
(23:07):
believe that somehow I can turnknobs and pull levers in my
nervous system to intentionallycalm down quickly.
Nope, that's avoidance and wedon't want to do stuff to run
away from it.
Meaning the minute I start toget anxious, I quickly drive
home to get away from it.
Those are the avoidances pullingover, turning on the radio,
listening to a podcast, talkingto a friend, like, if your drive
(23:29):
with anxiety looks like thedrive that you might have
without anxiety, then you arewinning.
If you can bring the feelingswith you, then, however way you
do that, it's okay.
You can learn from that.
Super important.
And then the last thing that Iwant to say before I start to
wrap it up is don't forget thelearning part.
Do not forget that it's themost important part.
(23:52):
So people get stuck on thedriving, or the distance, or the
end goal or the outcome.
I have to be able to drive tomy grandma's house and that's 60
miles away.
All right, cool, I mean you canwork on going to your grandma's
house.
There's nothing wrong with that.
But do not forget that going toyour grandma's house is not
really the goal, that's not theoutcome, that's not what you're
(24:12):
trying to focus on when youaddress driving anxiety just
like any other form of anxietythat we talked about in this
podcast, you're trying to learnsomething from your experiences.
The exposures are classrooms.
So if you have a panic attack,for instance, two miles from
home, when for the last threeweeks you've been regularly
driving 10 miles with no issue,that is still a learning
(24:35):
experience, not a failure.
Do not forget this part.
Everybody forgets this part.
Now, if you panic two milesfrom home after you've been
reliably going 50 miles fromhome, I understand that you
might feel frustrated, thatmight upset you.
You're allowed to have emotionsand opinions about that.
Just be careful about decidingthat was failure.
(24:55):
Anytime you can practice movingthrough that big, triggered,
horrible state that you thinkshould never happen, you are
winning.
So your your goal is to learnfrom that every time it happens,
whenever it happens and howeverit happens.
I often use the silly clicheit's right out of college
football coaching that we neverlose.
(25:17):
Here we either win or learn.
Do not forget the learning partEvery time you pick up those
keys.
If you still have some level ofdriving anxiety, remind
yourself quietly that I might beable to learn something today
about myself, about my abilityto navigate, about my ability to
be psychologically flexible, Imight learn something about
(25:38):
anxiety.
I might learn something everytime I pick up those keys.
What can I learn?
That's what we need.
That's the goal of the exposurein driving anxiety and anything
else.
Your goal is not to learn howto drive.
Your goal is to learn that it'ssafe to feel those feelings and
have those thoughts.
If you're not afraid of thefeelings or the thoughts or the
(25:59):
sensations anymore, then there'sno reason to fear driving
anymore.
So think about that.
Don't forget the learning part.
It's super important.
So that's kind of the drivinganxiety thing.
We've covered a lot of stuff.
We talked about the contextthat we're in.
We had a couple of disclaimersat the at the start.
Sorry, but I had to do that.
We had to acknowledge that somepeople have in fact been in car
(26:20):
accidents.
That's a little bit of adifferent animal.
We talked about the differentfour or five different sort of
sub fears or sub genres ofdriving anxiety.
You can decide which one yousort of fit in.
Maybe you fit in multiple.
And then we talked aboutexpanding your view.
Is driving really the onlyplace where you're anxious?
Is that the only place whereyou're avoiding triggers and
trying to manage things?
We talked about practicingsymptoms with interoceptives.
(26:42):
We talked about using imaginalexposures.
Both of those things havenothing to do with actually
being in the car on the road.
We talked about misconceptionsabout how to do a driving
exposure or what it means.
We talked about what isavoidance and what it is not in
a driving exposure.
So we got a lot of good stuffhere and we finished by saying
don't forget the part where youlearn from the experience.
(27:05):
And before I sort of wrap it up,just a quick reminder that
professional help can be reallyhelpful here.
I understand it can be hard tofind an exposure therapist.
I did a talk last fall that Idid a lot of research for and
the data on how difficult it isfor therapists to do exposure is
shocking and I know it's hardto find those of us that sort of
(27:26):
specialize in this and arewilling to do this work.
But it really is the best wayif you can find it and access it
.
Professional help when tryingto develop an exposure plan for
driving anxiety is really,really useful.
I have therapy clients that areovercoming driving anxiety and
panic while driving and theystarted with spinning around in
their kitchen chairs.
I have two people like thatright now actually, and they're
(27:49):
actually doing much betterdriving because of the
interoceptive exposures.
In that case that worked out.
But guess what?
They didn't know that.
They had no idea that thatcould be a thing.
They just needed a little bitof help and there's no crime in
that.
So if you can access it, if youcan get to it, having somebody
to help you see these things andthen build an effective
hierarchy is a good idea.
(28:10):
Otherwise you might see like,okay, I know, I have to.
You know, willfully tolerateand do exposures.
You might think that only meansthat I have to get in the car
and drive my 4000 pound machineto a spot far enough from home,
or it doesn't count.
And that's just not true.
So if you can get the help, ifyou can access it, if you can,
if you can find it and access it, consider it, it can be very
(28:33):
helpful.
So that's it, that is episode.
What episode is this?
That's episode 315 in the books, talking about driving anxiety
and exposures for drivinganxiety.
What am I going to tell you towrap it up?
Oh, I'll do the usual.
Remember, there's other goodiesat my website, on
theanxioustruthcom, so go istruthcom.
So go check those out.
If you're listening to thepodcast on Apple podcast or
Spotify and you can leave arating or review, maybe leave a
(28:55):
five star rating if I've helpedyou today or taught you
something today or ever, and ifyou really like this podcast,
maybe write a quick review, justa couple of sentences saying
why it's good, that helps otherpeople find the podcast and more
people get help, and then Ifeel good, of course.
If you're watching on YouTube orreally today would be listening
on YouTube like the video,subscribe to the channel, hit
the notification bell.
You know all the YouTube stuffI'm tired of talking about.
(29:17):
And what else can I tell you?
With driving anxiety, I know itmight seem like this is just
absolutely impossible, but anyday, any time, you can change
direction.
Open up your mind.
Not open up your mind, but openyourself up to different
experiences.
Be willing to loosen your gripa little bit and at least
consider that I might be able tomove through this fear, even if
(29:40):
I have to start drivingexposures in my kitchen.
It counts.
Do not discount the tiny littlesteps you take.
Every time you open yourself upto something that you thought
was impossible or that youshouldn't do, you could be
learning, which means you'restarting to win, and it all
counts.
It will all add up.
Keep going, be patient, be niceto yourself, root for yourself,
(30:01):
because I'm going to root foryou, even though I don't know
you're doing it.
I'll still root for yousilently, and that's it.
Thanks for hanging out today.
Hope you found it helpful.
I will see you in two weeks.
Don't know what we're going totalk about, but we'll talk about
something.
Take care of yourself.
I'll be back next time you.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com