Building Confidence in Street Photography with Valerie Jardin

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Valerie Jardin (00:00):
If you know how to see photographically, you can

(00:03):
get by with a phone and still doa fantastic work.
Whereas if you're verytechnical, but you have no
vision, you're going to have atechnically perfect photograph
of something really boring.
So anyone can learn thetechnical aspect of photography.
That's the easy part.
And I always tell my students,don't worry so much about the
technical aspect, cause that'seasy to learn.

(00:25):
Just learn to see.

Raymond Hatfield (00:28):
Hey, welcome to the Beginner Photography
Podcast.
I'm your host, Raymond Hatfield,and each week I interview one of
the world's most interestingphotographers to learn what it
really takes to capturebeautiful images so that you can
start to do the same.
In today's rewind episode, weare chatting with Street
photographer Valerie Jarden,about building confidence so
that you can start shooting lifeon the street.

(00:50):
But first, the BeginnerPhotography Podcast is brought
to you by Cloud Spot.
Cloud Spott has everything youneed to build a thriving
photography business.
You can impress your clients,deliver professional experience,
and streamline your whole clientworkflow in just one platform.
So grab your free foreveraccount today
over@deliverphotos.com and onlyupgrade when you are ready.

(01:13):
You know, one of the things thatI hear from listeners like
yourself is just how much,easier it would be to take great
photos if they lived in sometropical community or a large
city that, you know, neversleeps.
It's going 24 7 and while, okay,sure.
That would make it easier.
For the majority of us, that'snot where we live, and that

(01:36):
doesn't mean that we should justgive up on photography.
In fact, today's guest, ValerieJarden, who is honestly one of
the most incredible streetphotographers who I know is
gonna show you how great imagesaren't just about the
surroundings, where you're at,but they're about building
images with intention and,putting in the time behind the
camera, and maybe investing in areally good pair of walking

(01:59):
shoes.
And this always stick around tothe end for this week's
photography action item becausewell, this podcast is not just
some passive thing that you doto waste your time.
I understand that you takelearning photography seriously,
and these action items are myway of helping to boil down a
lot of info into just one thingthat you need to do each week

(02:20):
that is going to move the needleforward in your photography.
So stick around for that.
So now let's just go ahead andget on into today's interview
with Valerie Jaran.
Today's guest is Valerie Jardan,a street photographer with more
than 20 years of experience.
A born artist, her bio says,while other kids had posters of

(02:41):
rock stars on their walls, Iframed photos.
for my favorite photographers.
She's also the host of thepopular hit the streets podcast.
And today I'm excited to findout what those 20 years have
taught her about shooting thestreets.
Valerie, thank you so much forcoming on the podcast.

Hi, thank you for having me.
Well, it's not 20 years ofstreet photography.
It's 20 years of photographyexperience.
So a lot before.

And that's kind of one thing that I
definitely want to get into,first, but as I mentioned there
in the bio, you said that youhad posters, from professional
or photo frame photos ofprofessional photographers on
your wall, but you also say thatyou weren't really into
photography at the time.
No,

not at all.

I want to know why those photos were drawn to
you to put them on your wall,and when did you realize that
you were into photography?

Okay.
Yeah, it started really late forme, but growing up in France,
you have Robert Doisneau andCartier Bresson as inspiration.
You kind of grew up with thosepictures anyways.
And I always had, prints, notoriginal prints, unfortunately,
but prints of, their famousphotographs, whether it was a
prince that I would cut from acalendar that I would have of

(03:51):
Doisneau or something.
And that's what, that's how Idecorated my room.
So that's, Did they have aninfluence on me early on?
Possibly, but I was not intophotography at the time, but I
loved street photography anddocumentary photography so that
I didn't become a photographertill my twenties.
now

you said that you were interested in street
photography at the time.
what specifically do you thinkat a young age drew you to, this
style of photography?

Oh, I think it was just very romantic, the
lovers in Paris.
And I know a lot of my friends,I mean, I wasn't like an oddball
or anything.
It was kind of a normal thing asa young French woman to be drawn
to that kind of art.
And a lot of my friends, alsohave those type of photographs
in their home.
I guess it's more a culturalthing.
Yeah.

Right, right, right.
So when was it that thephotography really, stuck with
you?
If you weren't into photographyat such a young age?

Well, I was exposed to it.
So my dad, when I was growingup, was a pretty avid nature and
wildlife photographer, hobbyist,but, nevertheless, I would,
there are many mornings whereI'd get up super early to go
with him and wait for the fox tocome out the den to photograph
him.
I wasn't interested in thephotography aspect of it, but I
liked that hunting part ofphotography.

(05:02):
and it's not until I moved tothe States, in my mid twenties
that I actually started, lookinginto it, and I was actually
first drawn to nature andwildlife because I'm in
Minnesota and the photographerthat inspired me when I moved
here was, Jim Brandenburg, thefamous National Geographic wolf,

(05:22):
very famous for his wolfphotography, Northwoods and
that's the photography that,just stuck with me at first and
said, Oh, I'm in the best placeto do wildlife because we have
wolves with bears.
We have so much wildlife here inMinnesota.
And I thought I could do that.
Yeah, I could accept that.
And then I had kids and it's noteasy to do wildlife

(05:43):
photographies with two youngkids with you.
So, I did a little bit, but,quickly.
Quickly shifted gear into otherthings that I could do with the
family in tow, for my earlyyears as a photographer.

So in the beginning you, you just started
pursuing photography once youmoved to Minnesota purely as a
hobby, kind of to bring thatfeeling back of you and your dad
together?

Well, maybe, but it quickly, I mean, within a
year, actually, I was makingmoney with my photography.
So it went really, reallyquickly.
I was, photographing, childrenand friends, you know, I'm in
the, uh, going through theprairie grass that really
natural photo documentary typeof portraiture that was very new

(06:28):
back then.
I mean, the.
The portraits at the time, itwas like sitting on a fake log
or big crayon at JCPenney or,you know, Walmart.
There's

big crayons.
You remember that?
Oh, I got photos, yeah.
I was there, yeah.

So when I photograph my friend's children,
and they put the pictures ontheir walls, it was film, at the
time and I would give them, theprints, then people started
noticing, cause I thought, thisis really cool.
Well, it's a picture of yourfamily, but it, it looks like
art.
Doesn't look like a familypicture.
And at the time, nobody else didthat.
Then I started getting a lot ofrequests from friends of friends
and I said, oh, sure I cancharge you for that.

(07:05):
And uh, and it worked.
So I worked as a portraitphotographer doing that kind of
work for a few years, evenopened a studio for a while and
decided, Hey, I didn't like tophotograph kids in studio
because it's like bringing theminto, a dentist office or a
doctor's office.
And, had unlimited patience withmy own children, but not so much

(07:26):
with other people's childrenthat I decided that, yeah, doing
family portraits and childrenportraiture was only going to be
a short lived thing.
And I actually converted mystudio into a product studio.
So I did a lot of productphotography and shifted to the
commercial side of photographypretty quickly doing products.
And one thing led to another andI was shooting interiors for big

(07:48):
hotels and things like that.
So I pretty much shot it allexcept for fashion.
I think I've pretty much triedeverything, which I think is
awesome because you learn somuch and you can't say, no, I
don't want to do this unless youtried, so I tried a lot of
things, it was pretty good atmost of it, but I didn't like a
lot of it.
So I kind of I only did what Ilove to do because I really

(08:09):
believe that to be good atsomething, you have to love it.
And if it's a chore or a job asan artist, and if it feels like
a chore, you're not going to doit with your heart.

Yeah, I try to stress that a lot on the podcast
as well, especially when you'restarting out, you should really
try to shoot everything possiblebecause, yeah.
There are photographers outthere, and I use this as an
example, but I know aphotographer, who kind of, I
knew, when I first started inphotography, who only shot clear
liquids.
That was his thing.
It was only clear liquids.
see through, not like cleargreen, but clear liquid.

(08:43):
liquids, water, vodka, likethose types of liquids.
That's all that he did.
And I thought to myself when Ifirst figured that out, or when
I first learned of him was like,how do you even get into that?
Surely you don't grow up as akid thinking like, gosh, I could
just shoot water and vodka likeall day long.
it's one of those things thatprogresses, you shoot a range of
things and then suddenly itsticks for you.

(09:04):
But, I kind of want to go backto your story here.
You said that you picked up acamera there and then within a
year you were photographing kidsand stuff.
When you first picked up thatcamera, were you already,
competent with a camera or didyou have to learn?

I was a full auto for a long time because,
and, and yet, that's why, thevision is so much more important
because you can, if you have, ifyou know how to see
photographically, you can get bywith a phone and still do a
fantastic work.
Whereas if you're verytechnical, but you have no

(09:37):
vision, you're going to have atechnically perfect photograph
of a person.
Boring of something reallyboring.
So anyone can learn thetechnical aspect of of
photography.
That's the easy part.
And I always tell my students,don't worry so much about the
technical aspect, cause that'seasy to learn.
Just learn to see.
And I think some of it isinnate, but you can learn.

(09:59):
I mean, I've.
I've seen some of my studentsover the years produced some
pretty phenomenal work now, andI saw them at the early stages.
So, you can learn, even if it'snot something that you're born
with, you can certainly learn tobecome a better photographer,
but the technical part is, or isthe easy part and surprisingly
enough, that's what intimidatesa lot of people from jumping

(10:20):
into that field.

Sure, it's a lot of numbers.
I mean, I get it.
It can't be intimidating.

Yeah,

how did you do it?
Was it books?
Was it just um, no trial anderror trial and error.
I love it.
Yeah, okay So we're kind of atthis point to where now you have
this commercial photographystudio, right in the Was it in
the early 2000s?

Yeah,

okay.
So you had this commercialphotography studio and now today
you're very well known for yourstreet photography You Where did
the transition happen and whatwas it that inspired you to, to
go in

that direction?
Well, um, I was shootingpersonal projects throughout.
because I really feel that, andI've written a lot about that
actually, I really feel that youneed to feed your creative soul.
And not work for clients all thetime.
especially when you work forclient, that's even more
important to just work onpersonal projects where you

(11:12):
don't have to, produce work forsomebody else, and follow
somebody else's direction.
So it was really important forme to keep shooting and I was
traveling back and forth since Iwas born and raised in France
and I'm a French citizen.
I was traveling back and forthto France a lot, even with the
kids.
And, actually always with thekids for 17 years straight but I

(11:35):
always did photography there,and that's when I actually
discovered street photography Istarted photographing candid
scenes of everyday life with mycamera when I was traveling but
never here in Minneapolis, Ididn't think there was anything
interesting here.
I didn't see anythinginteresting and I I I guess I
developed it not knowing I wasdeveloping my street

(11:57):
photographer skills, over theyears.
And then, one day actuallysomeone said, Why don't you
teach this?
You're really good at it.
I'm like, Oh, I don't know.
I don't really want to.
I was thinking teaching like ina classroom.
It's like, I know, I mean, youhave to be on the street.
And then I thought, well, whynot?
After all, I could bring peopleto Paris and teach them the

(12:17):
skills to be betterphotographers on the streets
where street photography wasborn.
And so that's how I started.
So that was eight years ago.
I did one full and it was allinclusive at the time.
I didn't start with one day herelocally.
I started with a full week, allinclusive workshop,
accommodations and luxuryaccommodations and everything.

(12:39):
And, it's sold at the time wheremost of my colleagues who had
been doing that for a while weretelling me, no, no, no, we're
not selling right now.
It's not selling.
Don't start now.
Cause you're going to getdiscouraged.
If it doesn't fill up, it filledup.
Actually, I had a bunch ofpeople on the waiting list.
So it was a good start.
And so I went to Paris, did theone week workshop was a big

(13:00):
success and learned a lot.
So the following year I had nineworkshops and they all sold.
And that was it that year I quitall my clients.
I left all my commercialclients, and decided this is
what I'm going to do.
And, no more working forclients, no more compromising.
I'm shooting just for me andgoing to build my brand that

(13:22):
way.
And it was word of mouth andrepeat customers and word of
mouth.
And, now I'm eight years later.
I think I had 13 workshops in2018.
I think I have 11 right now forsale in 2019.
A lot of them are sold out.
And then, and I may add one ortwo.
I just go where I want to go.
And then people come and meet mein Paris from Australia or South

(13:45):
Africa or England for a week ora weekend.
Sometimes it's just a weekend.
I have a lot of weekends in theU.
S.
and I love every minute of it.
Because that is not an easy wayto make a living.
It's really, really hard.
I mean, you're, it's intense.
Sometimes I have nine straightdays of workshop.
And not only you have to love toteach, you wear a lot of hats

(14:06):
when you're doing workshops and,it's extremely difficult and you
really have to love it.
It's kind of like weddingphotography.
You have to love it or you'regoing to be miserable.

You got to have the right intentions for
sure.

Yeah.
So, that's how it started andI'm still doing it.
Love it.
Love it.
I would never do it if I didn'tlove it as much as I do.
And then, I write books.
I've been podcasting for fourand a half years, almost five
years now.
and I speak at conferences andteach webinars.
And so it's all photographygoodness.

Yeah.
If you had to take a, just aballpark guess, how many people
do you think, have been throughyour workshops?

Oh, it's got to be close to a thousand.

Okay, so out of those thousand people.
What do you think is the biggestmisconception they have when
they show up to your workshopsabout street photography?

Oh, a lot of people don't realize how
difficult it is, and howaddicting it is.
lot of people, and the way theworkshop is designed, it doesn't
matter what your level is.
It's really about seeing.
So they have to come with acertain knowledge of their
camera to be able to takecontrol.
I mean, if it's minor, I can,you know, they don't have to

(15:20):
come and know how to shootpanning on the street that I'll
teach in the field.
It's not something you can learnfrom a book, but, they have to
have good knowledge of thecamera.
Although a lot of time peoplecome with a brand new camera,
although I tell them, pleasedon't bring a brand new camera
on the workshop, know how to useit.
It has to become an extension ofyou.
and, sometime the idea that,street photography means being

(15:42):
in people's faces when it doesnot, that's one way to do it,
but it's not for everyone.
And I totally discourage peoplewho don't feel comfortable
getting super close and people'sface to do it because they're
going to ruin the whole.
genre for everybody else, ifeverybody does that.
So it's not for everyone.
Some people prefer aninteraction with their subjects.

(16:02):
Some people prefer a little moreminimalist approach.
So I think there is a way toapproach it that's going to fit
the student's personality tostart.
And then, then yes, they willwant to get closer.
They will want to try newthings.
But they don't have to jump intobeing in people's faces right
away.
cause that has to be done welland respectfully.

(16:23):
And it's usually, not somethingyou want to do if you don't feel
comfortable doing.

Right.
Right.
So if there's, like you said,kind of several different, types
of street photography that youcould practice getting up close
in somebody's face or taking amuch more candid approach.
What would you say overallthough is the job description of
a street photographer?

Well, it's really recording everyday life
and it's not just There is alsothe misconception of, well, it's
just people walking across thestreet.
Well, no, it's not.
You have to be really,discerning.
You have to be extremelydiscerning.
And that's one thing that moststreet photographers, at first,
are not discerning.
It's like, okay, there'ssomebody moving, there's a
street, there's a subject.

(17:03):
Like, what?
And it was like, well, what wasinteresting about that person?
I mean, no offense, but there isnothing there.
It's a boring subject wearingboring clothes and a boring with
a boring backdrop.
I mean, you have to have a lotof elements come together.
That's why it's so difficultbecause you only have control
over your vision and your gear.
You have control over nothingthat's happening on the street.

(17:25):
I never stage anything.
I mean, it's always a hundredpercent candid.
And I always explain to mystudents, you always have to go
for a story first.
The backdrop may not be thebest.
The light may not be the best,but if you have a beautiful
moment, a beautiful story, youhave something.
If you have a great backgroundand you ruin it with a boring
subject, you have nothing.

(17:45):
So sometimes all the elementswill come together, but that
happens a few times in alifetime of a photographer.
So, I think it's alwaysresetting their expectations,
especially if they've beenphotographing, they've been
doing other genres ofphotography, such as landscape,
where they actually can taketheir time.
They have, they're on a tripod,They can come back here.
You have a fraction of a secondto immortalize something that's

(18:10):
never happened and will neverhappen again.
That's it.
That's all you have.
So you have to move really,really quickly.
You have to think quickly andyou have to let go of the notion
of perfection, which isdifficult for a lot of
photographers who've areexperiencing other genres of
photography.
It's that notion of perfectionbecause in street photography,

(18:30):
it's usually the imperfectionthat creates an emotional
response.

That's going to be a memorable quote from
this episode right there.
Okay, good.
That was good.
Uh, so I'm still trying to, kindof wrap my head around street
photography a little bit.
as a wedding photographer andsomebody who doesn't, shoot
street, can you walk me throughhow you go about doing that?
You said that you don't, plananything out.
You don't create anything.
You don't interact with it.

(18:57):
So when you decide to go out, doyou walk out of the house with a
specific photo in mind, or is itall up to just being in the
right place at the right timeand hoping that you get
something?
And if you don't, well, at leastyou weren't behind a desk all
day.

That's right.
No, actually.
So first, if you have a specificpicture in mind, that's somebody
else's shot.
It's not yours.
If you have a specific image inmind that you've seen, probably
something you've seen, then it'snot yours.
And so I try not to.
But then once I'm on a location,I usually hit the street with,

(19:33):
It depends on the light.
So I'll follow the light if Ihave some interesting light,
like a, a lot of light andshadow.
So that will probably be whatI'm going to follow first.
If it's an overcast day, I'mgoing to have to get closer to
people and be more, in tune withexpressions and gesture.
Because I have nothing in thelight that's going to be
exciting.

(19:53):
So it's a little more difficult.
When you have light, harshlight.
You're going to make moreexciting photographs, no matter
what.
It's easier than if you have aovercast condition and you don't
have the, spectacular, dramaticlight to, to save you like harsh
shadows and harsh, and, lightshafts and so forth, then you're

(20:14):
going to have to work a littleharder.
I like to be surprised.
That said, I do have severalprojects that I always have in
the back of my mind.
I have a project about streetdogs.
I have a project about storiesof hands, which is only getting
close to people's hands.
So I'm always looking for handsthat are doing something
different.
I shoot within inches frompeople.
So if I'm at a market or a busyarea, I'll focus on that because

(20:37):
I'm more of a minimalistphotographer.
So if it's crowded.
I'll probably focus on somethingspecific, and work on a project,
but don't go with a picture inmind, but once I'm at a
location, for example, I findthis really amazing shaft of
light.
And I know I only have minutesbecause that light is going to
disappear.
Then I will visualize what wouldmake the strongest possible

(20:59):
shot.
And it may or may not happen,but I'm not going to settle.
If the perfect subject doesn'tcome through that light before
that light disappears.
I'm not going to get the shot.
I prefer not get the shot thatget a mediocre shot.
And that's something that takesa long time to discipline
yourself to do.
A lot of time there's thisamazing backdrop.

(21:22):
And then I see my students, Ipoint out the backdrop and I'll
see them, I'll see, usually workwith them one on one or two of
them at a time.
When we're in a, interestingarea.
And I go back and forth to themand point things out and they
see this amazing backdrop thenthey grab a picture and I said,
wait, what did you take apicture of?
well, yeah, look at there wassomebody came through and went,

(21:43):
okay, this is a person withuninteresting clothes with a
backpack, which creates kind ofa, not a very, elegant subject
and really nothing.
The light is, if the light hitstheir face, it doesn't hit the
face.
It'll hit the back of their heador something.
So it's like, it's, it's thelight was good, the background
is good, but you settled for aninteresting subject.

(22:05):
No, you stay longer.
You have 10 more minutes of thatlight here in 10 minutes.
Somebody much better, much morefitting for that environment may
come through.
If you're in Paris or Rome,you're not going to photograph a
tourist, right?
You're going to photographsomebody who belongs in that
spot.
So it's really about beingdiscerning.
And that's why your rate ofsuccess is so low, but I prefer

(22:26):
coming home with 10 pictures onmy card that actually 10
pictures that I want to look at,then 500 and then trash 490 of
them because that's pretty muchwhat it's going to be on a good
day.
If you come back with onepicture, you actually want to
keep.
That's really good.
And people have.
have to be comfortable withthat.

(22:47):
And that's difficult forphotographers.
I mean, some of my colleaguesactually asked their students to
take 100 pictures and delete 99of them.
And be that specific.
It's a good exercise, actually.
So

wow.
So like, wait until you get hometo delete those 99 photos.
I guess so.
I don't know.
I

don't ask my students to do that.
But, uh, I told him, there isnothing, if there is nothing
there, just delete.

Yeah.

You didn't catch the moment and sometimes they
say, but oh, I saw something.
I saw something.
I said, good.
That's half of the work rightthere.
You didn't catch it.
That's okay.
You learn because you saw it.
And that's more than 99 percentof the people out there can say,
because people look, but theydon't see, and when you see that
special moment, that specialgesture, that special expression

(23:32):
in somebody's face, the lightthat just hits the face of a
beautiful woman sitting at acafe, if you see that, even if
you don't capture it and it, butyou saw it, that's, you learn
something and no matter what,you're better equipped at
catching it the next timesomething like that happens.
It's never going to be thatmoment.
But there will be other momentswith that, with a similar,

(23:54):
situation and just learning whatyou could have done better that
day to get it will teach you howto get it next time.

Yeah.
I can imagine.
Practice makes perfect.
That's what they say.
So at least better, at leastbetter.
And at the end of the day,that's all that matters.
That's all.

That's right.
And it's okay, to come backempty.
I think it's better to come backempty, but knowing that you
learned something, you sawsomething that you miss or
either come back with a bunch ofmediocre shots.

Right.
So it sounds like there is a lotof downtime when you go out to
shoot street photos.
When you go out, is the firstthing that you're looking for,
like you mentioned, is it thelight and then just waiting for
something to happen in front ofyou?

Not necessarily.
I'll follow the light, but youhave to be patient.
And if you keep moving, moving,moving, it's probably not gonna
be a good day, depending on thecity.
For example, New York City.
You have to let people come toyou more because there's already
something happening in New York.
Same in Paris, actually,depending on the season.

(24:58):
but if it's quieter, then you'llwalk more.
But you need to always be intune what's happening around
you.
I already say it'd be reallydifficult to pickpocket a street
photographer because seriouslywe have eyes behind our head

Now are you always are you always on the
move?
Are you walk in within like, afew hundred feet or so, or are
you standing miles?

No, I'll, I'll walk miles and miles and miles a
day.
The most important piece of gearfor a street photographer are
shoes.
I mean, honestly, I spend moremoney on shoes and good shoes,
not girly shoes, you know,street shoes, than I do on gear
on any given year, becausethat's really the most important
part, the comfort of being ableto walk, 10, 15 miles a day,

(25:43):
with your camera.
So go light, small camera, ifyou can.
Yeah.
I mean, go with whatever youhave, but, just don't bring
extra lenses or extra gear, justextra batteries and you're good
to go.

When do you know when to call it quits?

Oh, I never do.
I never put the camera in thebag.

Okay.
Let me, let me reframe thequestion.
When you've been in a location,nothing is happening?
Do you wait until somethinghappens?
Or at what point do you say, Youknow what, I'm calling it a day.

It all depends.
I mean, sometimes, of course, ifit's on workshop, that's
different.
I'm more talking about when I'mon my own.
If I just have 10 minutes beforeI meet a friend, I'm going to
make use of those 10 minutes.
Even if I'm at the airportbetween flights, I'll have my
camera out.
So it all depends on how muchtime I have.
If the spot is is so amazing.

(26:37):
And I know I'm not going to havean opportunity to come back.
I have unlimited patience andI'm not a patient person.
I'm French and like, I'm notpatient.
I'm not a patient driver.
For example, I drive withflashing my brights all the
time, uh, which Americans don'tlike.
We

don't handle criticism very well.
And that's, that's what thebrights do.

But on the street, If I find a great spot
and I'm determined to not settleand I'm not going to press the
shutter unless the right, thebest possible case scenario
happens, then I could be therefor an hour at that street
corner or until some securitytells me to leave.

How often does that happen?

It all depends.
It happens more in the U.
S.
cities than anywhere else, andit's not because of the
photography.
It's not because we'rephotographing people.
It's because of the buildings.

I see.

Yeah, like in the, in Minneapolis, we have a
skyway system, and securitydoesn't want you to photograph
the structure.
And so they tell you to leave,but I usually wait till they
come a second time.
By then, hopefully, I have myshot.

Wait for the second time.
I guess that kind of brings upsome questions about legalities,
dealing with street photos.
I'm sure that that's somethingthat you have to deal with when
taking photos of strangers orlocations, but I've heard
conflicting, like, well, ifyou're in a public place,
anything goes.
Can you kind of walk me through,some of the legalities that you
have to deal with?

Well, all depends on the country, but even
people have really misconceptionof what you know, the privacy
laws are all about.
And I use the same approachanywhere, whether I'm in
Australia and the US and France.
in Italy, it doesn't matter.
I'm respectful.
I don't photograph people inembarrassing or vulnerable
situations and, or in situationsof ridicule.

(28:26):
Usually I'm invisible.
And in most places, even withstrict, so quote unquote, strict
privacy laws, which are verygray to start with, they would
have to prove that you're doingdamage to them.
to even have a case.
And so in the U.
S.
Any public place is fine.
You don't have a copyright onyour face.
That said, you cannot photographsomebody in their backyard.

(28:46):
That would be, That despite aninvasion

of privacy.

Yeah.
but even then, there was thisphotographer in New York that
was, just across the street froma building that was all glass
and he was photographing peoplein their homes and they took him
to court or her, I don'tremember.
That was a few years ago.
And they lost, I mean, the lawsided with the photographer
because they were not reallyrecognizable.

(29:10):
I mean, yes, they were in theirprivate homes walking through
their apartments.
But, there was no harm done,

So when does something like this come up?
Does it come up when you'retaking the photo?
Or does it come up when you tryto make money off of the photo?

Well, I only photograph for, fine art and
editorial.
So, sell products with myphotos.
Of course, if you were to useyour street photography as stock
photography to, to use thepeople like you can use a
photograph of somebody walkingdown the street, to sell
insurance on a billboard, forexample, then you would

(29:47):
definitely need not only arelease from the subject, but
also usually, witness or two.
So it's pretty complicated.
Street photographers shoot forthemselves and fine art.
So normally for those twoeditorial and fine art, you
don't need a release frompeople.
And seriously, no one objects.
If you do it right and do itrespectfully, even if someone

(30:11):
notices that you took a pictureand comes to you, just explain
what you're doing.
I'm documenting life, everydaylife.
It's so beautiful.
Everyday life on the streets ofNew York or Paris.
You're not doing anything wrong.
You actually do it.
You have to take your job as astreet photographer seriously,
because look at the photographsof some of the masters, even,

(30:32):
Vivian Meyer, her photographsthat were discovered, after she
died even, how amazing to havethat to go back as a historical,
historical value point of view.
So if you look at what you do asvaluable that way, It's
important to do it right.
If we don't do what we do, allwe'll have of the year 2019, 18,

(30:57):
19 and a few years before areselfies of people or
surveillance footage.
So I think it's really importantto, to do it and to do it
respectfully and to do it well.
I take that seriously.
I hope that my photographssomeday will in 50 years, 100
years, people will look back andsay, wow, look at those cars.
Look how people were dressed atthe time.

(31:18):
How cool is that?
Like we do when we look at thework of photographers from 50
years or more ago.
And I, I think we, we don't lookat it thinking, Oh man, that was
really close to their private.
There was an invasion of theirprivacy.
Look, there are people kissingand blah, blah, blah.
Well, you know, they're kissingin the public place.
They're fair game to me.
So

yeah.
Yeah.
That's one of the things that Ithink of as well as because as I
love looking at those oldphotos, my grandmother used to
take a ton of photos and everytime we'd get together, I'd
always go through her photoalbums and what would always
stand out to me were how peoplewere dressed and the cars on the
street because it's justsomething that you can't see
today, right?
All of those cars out there.

(32:00):
So I guess kind of what I thinkabout is how do you preserve
those memories for the future?
Because if you just go outthere, you take these photos,
you leave them on a hard drive,right?
We leave this earth.
What happens at that point?
The photos are just gone.
Is there anything that you do tokind of ensure that, that the
human race has a copy of yourdocumentation?

Yeah, well, I print.
I have books.
I'm actually going to have afine art book of some of my
Paris photographs coming outthis spring.
I have some e books, whichprobably doesn't, uh, gonna
help.
There's not going to help in thelong run, but, print books are
good.
And then printing, it's really,important to print.
and I always encourage peoplesay, print your best shot of

(32:42):
every month so that at the endof the year, you can look back
and see how much you've grown inyour art and it's great to have,
a selection of 12 photographs atthe end of the year that you can
actually be proud of.
And maybe one or two of themwill be.
were they to be on a wall?
So in street photography.
That's not as easy as it looks.
But in any types of photography,I think it's important to print

(33:04):
and have that tangible print inyour hands.

Yeah.
That's interesting.
Kind of side question.
Say that you were to go out,what would you say about as the
average of how long you go out,with a camera and shoot?

If I'm by myself, like I was just in
Havana just for me, it was just,me trip, my reward at the end of
a busy workshop season.
So I spent four full six days,but four full days in Havana and
two days of travel, with mycamera and I was out from, from,
from work.
Morning till night, very fewbreaks, you know, there's
walking, walking, walking, andit's, it's really one thing

(33:38):
leads to another and it's, andthen you have, elements
serendipity comes into play.
And then you meet someone andyou walk into somebody's home
and then you have this amazinglight, amazing story you shoot,
so I'm completely tireless whenI'm in Paris on my own.
I'll do 15 plus miles on a dayby myself, less with students,

(34:00):
but actually I probably do itjust as much, but I'm kind of
zigzagging from student tostudent.
So, I usually double the mileagethat they do, but you walk
slower because you, first ofall, if you walk too fast, you
will.
If any, if you stop, you seesomething and you stop, you're
going to draw attention becauseyou make that sudden stop.
So walk slowly when you're in aarea that's really, rich and

(34:23):
potential, then you walk slowlyand you don't want to miss a
thing.
And then, and you do a lot ofback and forth and circling, and
it'd be really interesting toactually see the.
the itinerary of a streetphotographer on any given day
from, uh, out of space.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Yeah.
From a GPS standpoint, I'm sureyou can download

that.
And I call it getting lost onpurpose.
Really?
That's what you need to do.
I think, on the streets, justlet the streets surprise you.

So you talked to there about Um, you talked
earlier about learning to seephotographically and you talk
about that on your website.
your website says thatphotographers need to shoot with
more intent and make decisionsbefore they press the shutter.
And they do that by learning tosee photographically.

(35:11):
what do you mean by seeingphotographically and how do we
start doing that?

Well, first of all, don't rely on post
processing.
I'm actually working on aproject right now, the artist in
the space.
Uh, it's a personal project.
It's kind of a way to feed mycreative soul in, between
workshops when I'm in,Minneapolis in the winter month.
and I photograph artists intheir space.
And the goal is to, to not spendmore than five seconds on any of

(35:36):
the photograph if any postprocessing at all and half of
the photographs that I'veproduced so far And I just
photographed the six number sixin the series yesterday the
musicians Half of them haveabsolutely no post processing.
I shoot JPEG and I make thedecision in camera before I
press the shutter, and I thinkthat's important.
Even if you shoot raw, even ifyou can process those files to

(36:00):
death, if that's your thing, Imean, go ahead.
It's not mine.
I'm happy when they come outjust right, you should always
aim at cropping in camera,getting the right, the right
frame, the best frame possible.
So practice.
It's harder to do on the streetbecause obviously things are
moving, you but you can start bypracticing in your house, even

(36:22):
just, take an object, put itsomewhere where the light is
actually challenging and thenshoot it like backlit and making
all the settings work in cameraand see if you can actually make
it happen without having to doany post processing at all.
And I shoot JPEG only.
I haven't shot a raw file inabout three or four years now.

(36:43):
I shoot JPEG and my Fujifilmcamera because the JPEGs are
better than I could replicatefrom a RAW file.
and it's street photography.
There's nothing you can do to aphotograph to make it good, if
it's not good to start with.
the RAW file really would, and Iprint really big from a JPEG.
That's another misconception.
so why have all those RAW fileswhen I don't need them?

Right.
Yeah, especially if there's nointent to edit them for sure.
Is what you're saying to, tolearn how to, to see more
photographically, does that justcome purely out of experience of
shooting in bad light and poorconditions?

Well, it's actually, doing simple
exercises.
just, pick any object or walkdown the street and make
something very ordinary,exciting, what are you gonna do?
Are you going to stand on thatbench?
Are you going to go underneath?
How are you going to make thatpark bench exciting?
It's a old park bench.
How to make the extraordinarylook.

(37:39):
The ultimate the or make theordinary look extraordinary.
And so using difficult lightingsituation will make anything
look better.
I mean, if you, should back litand have some, bright highlights
and deep shadows, create somemood.
And those are some of myfavorite things.
conditions and it's definitelymore challenging than, shooting

(37:59):
in, overcast weather when youhave really even light, but that
to me, that's kind of boring.
So always challenge yourself andjust, I mean, one exercise that
anyone can do is really to makesomething ordinary look
extraordinary without going intopost processing.
And, look for a certain angle.
The more you work your frame,the less you'll have to do it,

(38:23):
as you learn.
Sometimes I tell my son, okay,there, there's this really cool
thing.
I dunno, it could be like an oldshutter, all, you know, lots of
texture on a brick walls.
Okay.
Make that shutter better than iteven looks on the wall.
Really work it to death, shootat different angles, different
ways, different apertures workit until you get comfortable

(38:45):
that you know exactly when yousee that, that item that
whatever it is, that object, youknow exactly what you need to do
to make the best, the strongestpossible photograph, but that
comes with experience.
So in order to get there, youneed to work it, work it, work
it.
And then until you get to thatpoint where you'll see an object
or scene or whatever, and youknow exactly the angle that you

(39:08):
need to shoot it to make thestrongest possible photograph.
So

I love that.
Nice and simple.
Like you said, anybody can dothat.
Anybody can find somethingaround their house that is, you
know, Boring.

Oh yeah, I mean, I do, I shoot around my house
all the time.
There's not a day that I don'tsee, amazing light on my
windowsill or the lines from thevertical blinds cast a shadow on
an object and I'll grab thatshot.
I'll never show it.
I'll never post it.
But I, I practice, I saw and Icaptured it and I had a whole
series for a while calledactually, ordinary objects are

(39:42):
beautiful.
And that was the whole point.
I would do it every day and Iwould post one a week and the
story behind it.
And it's a fun project.
There's so many things peoplecan do that are, that doesn't
require any traveling at all.

Sure.
Yeah.
However, I think travel one ofthe big, yeah, one of the perks
for sure.
One thing I want to know, andit's, as a wedding photographer,
I make my money because couplesfind me.
They give me money for a certainjob.
I do that job and then I deliverit.
When it comes to streetphotography, I know that you do

(40:14):
a lot of workshops and you havebooks, but if somebody is
getting started in streetphotography, can you just kind
of walk me through how I guess,an average street photographer
would even go about making anysort of income?
You can't, you

really have to do it for you.
It's something you do foryourself.
And that is so important, nomatter what you should shoot for
you, you shouldn't even think ofan audience and I shoot for
myself.
I teach workshops because peoplewant to learn techniques and
they want to see me shoot on thestreet and learn.

(40:48):
But that said, I don't shoot foran audience either.
I shoot for me.
And that really is somethingthat's so important.
You can't shoot for likes onsocial media.
You have to shoot for yourself.
If otherwise you'd always shoot,you know, if you shoot for the
likes or for what's trendy,you're not going to be happy.
You have to do what works foryou, make yourself happy.
Yeah.
So you can, uh, you can teachand, sell prints, but even then,

(41:13):
I mean, I do sell prints, but Idon't even, it's a full time job
to sell prints.
if you want to get your name outthere, and I really don't have
time.
I do have prints available andthey sell, collectors by them
once in a while.
And it's great.
it's, you feel pretty good whenyou are shipping a print to the
other side of the world.
But, it's difficult.
People don't usually put aphotograph of a stranger on

(41:36):
their wall, unless there is areally big name attached to that
print.
So there's fine art streetphotography that will be a
little more subtle or artsy or,how could I say, like
silhouettes.
It's may sell better than, youknow, facial expression or
stranger because it's a littlemore, anonymous.

(41:57):
But it's again that you're notgoing to make a living selling
fine art prints of your streetphotography, but you know, it's
fun to try if you do it foryourself, I think.
And I think every streetphotographer.
That I know is so passionateabout what they do and they're
so addicted to it.
I don't think they care if theymake money out of it or not.

(42:17):
It sure wasn't my goal.
I don't do anything for that.
I do it, I only do things that Ilove doing.
So, I could still be working forclients shooting interiors and,
but I don't.
I just love teaching andsharing, Yeah,

I love it, I love it.
I think that sometimes can be a,uh, You know, like this lofty
idea, you know what I mean?
Like, if you shoot it, they willcome, and I like the approach
that you're taking as a, likedon't shoot for anybody else.
Don't shoot for an audience,shoot for yourself.
And if they like it, then theywill come essentially.
But

that's right.
Yeah.

When it comes to street photography, as a
wedding photographer, I show upto every wedding with quite a
bit of gear, it's very heavy, Ibring an assistant with me to
take care of some of that gear.
As a street photographer.
This is one thing that I getquestions about in the Beginner
Photography Podcast Facebookgroup.
What sorts of gear, and we don'treally talk a lot about gear on
this podcast as I'm sure youknow, it's not as important as a

(43:09):
lot of beginners put the weighton it.
but what sorts of gear are youshowing up with?
how much do you need and howlittle can you get away with?

Go out with your phone.
I mean, honestly, I actuallyhave some workshop students that
will come with a DSLR causethat's what they've been
shooting with and that's allthey have.
And then they see the advantageof having something smaller and
less conspicuous and they willgo out with, their phone for a
day.
And then they get.
They get the best shots becausethey could get a little closer

(43:37):
and it's an extension of them.
I mean, let's talk aboutlimitations, although they're
getting fancier and fancier, butI shoot with one camera, one
lens.
It's actually a rangefinder typecamera with a 23 millimeter
lens.
I can't change the lens.
That camera is an extension ofme and that's the best case
scenario.
I used to shoot with a DSLR.
I mean, I started with a 5D MarkII, but then I would use, like a

(43:59):
40 millimeter, like the pancakelens, something that would make
my camera the smallest, thesmallest possible.
And now I have the, we have theadvantage of having cameras that
are amazing.
I mean, really amazing betterthan my, I mean, my X 100 F is
better than my five D Mark twowas, and, uh, amazing cameras

(44:19):
are completely silent that looklike old cameras that nobody's
going to feel threatened by oreven pay attention to.
And, so we have gear that makesour life a lot easier on the
streets for sure.
But whatever you have, if it'snot broken, don't fix it, right?
Start with whatever you have,but soon you'll realize that if
you really want to get intothis, lighter is going to be

(44:42):
better because you're going tobe out there for so long.
You never bring extra lenses onthe street.
Really, the only thing youshould worry about is extra
batteries and maybe an extracard.
But like for me, I shoot JPEG.
So, 32 gig will last me severalweeks.

You talked there about the lens that you
bring.
It's just a 23 mil lens that'sattached to the camera.
And we're talking Fuji.
You're a Fuji photographer likemyself.
And that 23 millimeter lens isthe equivalent to a 35
millimeter on a full framesensor.
And some beginners havequestions about, is that too
wide?
Should they go with somethingmaybe like a 50 or an 85?

(45:19):
Can you just kind of talk aboutthat for a moment?

Actually, 35 millimeter, the 23 that I have
is 35 equivalent.
As you said, is really An idealstreet lens.
It's not too wide, but, you canstill get some pretty cool
portraits too with it.
If anything, I'll go wider.
If I go any closer and I have a35, which is a 50 equivalent,
and I'm always too close.

(45:41):
I have to step back because I'mso used to my focal length.
And it's really, there arethings that you need to, to
decide before you press theshutter.
First of all, whether it's goingto be black and white or color.
Well, even if you, I make thatdecision in camera before I
press the shutter, but that isan important creative decision
that you shouldn't wait till yousee the picture on in Lightroom

(46:03):
to make.
You should always make thatdecision before you press the
shutter, even if you shoot raw.
Practice making that decision.
Why is that a stronger black andwhite?
Why would it be stronger incolor?
And I'll see you next time.
Knowing your focal length sothat you can move quickly.
I'm so familiar with that focallength that I don't have to even
think I won't have to cropbecause I know exactly where I

(46:24):
need to stand to get exactly theframe, the way I want the final
image to be.
I mean, sometimes I'll have tocrop because I can't, there is
something that prevents me fromgetting closer.
If it's somebody up a window orsomething, but, But usually I do
very, very little cropping.
If anything else, straighten theverticals and that's it.
So that's the advantage ofworking with a fixed focal
length and a consistency in thefocal length.

(46:46):
And also in a body of work, it'snice to have that consistency.
If you jump from, 23 to 35 to 80and back, it looks a little odd
in a body of work or in aseries.
So it's good to keep thatconsistency, but to challenge
myself, actually, I'm working onmy personal project, the artist
in the space with a 35millimeter on my X Pro2, it's a

(47:07):
really fast lens, a 1.
2, because sometimes I'm a, 1.
4, I'm in a really dark studio,so I needed the fastest prime.
And it's challenging for mebecause again, it feels really
tight, but it's also good to mixit up and not get stuck.
You need to, to be flexible, butfor street it's 23 and I do have
a 23 for my X pro two, which ismy waterproof kit, but it's the

(47:31):
same focal length.
So it's basically a differentcamera, but the exact same focal
length.
And I think that's important.

How often are you, with a range finder camera?
I know, when you get reallycomfortable with it.
Oftentimes you don't even needto look through the viewfinder.
Now, this question isn't goingto apply to a lot of the
listeners, but, it's interestingme is how often are you are
looking through to get theperfect composition compared to
how often, are you in asituation where you are involved
in that moment as well, that youjust know where to point your

(47:59):
camera and take that photo.

actually I never looked through the viewfinder.
I look, I use live view.
because I think if, althoughthis one doesn't have a tilt
screen, I think if you lookthrough the viewfinder all the
time, you tend to shooteverything at eye level.
Although yes, you can go down onyour knees and so forth, but I
never look at the viewfinder.
So my photographs are much moredynamic that way, because I can
shoot lower, higher.

(48:22):
I can have more reach too,because I'm shooting wide.
So just that arms reach can getme closer to to what I want.
that also helps without yourbody, without physically getting
closer.
And no, wait, your question was,I forgot the question.
So yeah, going back to, beingfamiliar with the focal length

(48:42):
is important because, and, um,looking through the viewfinder,
that's what the question was.
Sorry.
I often, you're right, because Iknow that focal length so well,
I don't need to look at theviewfinder half the time because
I know exactly what I'm going toget, with.
Because it's, again, it's moreof an extension of me.
And sometimes you're in asituation where, for example,

(49:04):
you're sitting across somebodyreally interesting in the subway
in New York.
You don't want them to know thatyou're taking a picture of them
because if they notice you,whatever caught your attention
in the first place is going tobe gone.
So then, why take the picture?
It won't make any sense.
So just to really be moreinvisible, just shooting
completely blind is, is good.

(49:25):
Did that answer your question?

Yeah, no, it absolutely made sense for sure.
And like you said, if you'resitting across from somebody, on
the subway, that's why it makessense to, to know your settings.
So you don't have to hold up thecamera, do that test.

But that said, if you're shooting with a camera
that you have to bring it toyour eye, then just be
completely open.
Don't try to sneak the shot.
Just, you know, I used to bring

the camera.

Yeah, I know, but I used to shoot people on
the subway or in the metro inParis with a DSLR.
It's noisy, I had to bring it tomy eye, I never used non live
view, and, I just went for it.

Yeah.
Don't

try, don't try to sneak the shot.

So, we mentioned black and whites
there, as that's one of the bigthings that you should, make
that decision before you pressthe shutter.
Know whether or not a photoshould be black and white.
When I think of streetphotography, I think of black
and white photography.
Can you tell me why that is?
I have no idea why that is.

It's easier, first of all, and I think it's
because you think of theclassics, but, black and white
is a little, a little bit easierbecause you have less
distractions.
And sometimes that timelessquality, of the black and white
photograph.
So black and white as also amood that works well with
straight photography.
So those are really importantthings to consider in your

(50:41):
choice, but sometimes it's allabout the color.
And a lot of streetphotographers will only shoot
color or only shoot black andwhite.
I do a lot of both because, Ilet the subject make that
decision.
If the subject, it's all aboutcolor, it would make no sense to
shoot it in black and white.
But on the other hand, if,there's this amazing subject,

(51:03):
but then there's the awfulcolorful distraction.
Then of course, it's going to bestronger in black and white.
So I make those decisions.
If I can't make the decision onthe spot, then my camera will be
on film simulation bracketing,where I actually have, the
options.
But I think it's reallyimportant.
It's very, very rare that you'llever hesitate between one or the

(51:23):
other in post processing.
It's very rare that thephotograph would be equally
strong in color or in black andwhite.
Very rare.

Another side question as a Fuji fan myself,
what are your favorite, color inblack and white Fuji film
simulations?

I only shoot classic chrome and color only.
And I have, I've shot a lot ofcolor since they came up with
classic chrome because I thinkclassic chrome has that timeless
quality to it.
And it just fits my style ofphotography.
So I shoot classic chrome andthen acros and black and white.
And for example, I was just inHavana and I shot more black and

(51:57):
white than color.
And there was room for both.
Definitely.
I just, I just published YouTubevideo with a selection of 70
some of my photographs fromHavana and they start with color
and they go into black andwhite, but those were decisions
that I mostly made on the spot.
Sometime I was in filmsimulation, so I actually had
both at the end of the day, but,sometimes the color will

(52:18):
distract from the mood or fromthe expression and a place like
Havana is so colorful thatsometimes it's just too
colorful.
And then you, it doesn'ttranslate that emotion like a
black and white will.
If you remove color distraction,your viewer will stay on the
subject a lot longer.
If you have so much, it's sobusy around your subject, viewer

(52:41):
will go to the human face andthen will look all around and
not stay on the human face longenough.
So

I'm glad that you covered that that was my
exact question I've never beento Cuba, but from every photo
I've seen it seems so colorfuland I'm glad that you gave an
explanation as to why black andwhite.
Yeah better in a very colorfulsituation like that.
So this is my last question.
I think I'm really excited forthis episode but I know that
we've gone over our timetogether, so I got this one last

(53:09):
question for you, and that is,if you had to go back to when
you bought that first filmcamera, you moved to
Minneapolis, you bought thatfirst camera, that's been 20
years now, after 20 years ofknowledge, what do you wish that
you could go back and tell ayoung 1998 Valerie about
photography that would help hertoday?

I think I pretty much learned as I was doing it,
you know, not.
Not to get stuck and not tolike, I mean, I even shot
weddings back then, you have totry everything.
You don't know what you want todo.
And I didn't pursue them becauseI really didn't enjoy them.
But a lot of people stay stuckin something and they feel, oh,
well, that's all I can do, butno, you, you're never stuck.

(53:49):
And, And Ari's that's one thingAri's work on personal project.
Cause at one point early on inmy career working for clients,
it became a job.
And, it took me a little whileto realize why it's because I
was not working on personalprojects.
So I wasn't feeding my creativesoul.

(54:10):
I was only working for otherpeople.
And so it took me a littlewhile, but I finally realized
what was happening.
And I started working onpersonal project and sharing
that work, the personal work,share that work separately from
your commercial work, if needbe, but share that work on a
blog or something, but continueto work on personal project.

(54:32):
Because at one point.
I was this close to quittingphotography altogether because
it had become a job.
I was working for clients andthere is no way I was going to
bring that camera out onweekends if I didn't have to.
And I didn't want to postprocess any more pictures,
certainly not pictures that Iwould do on my own time.
And that's when I realized thatyou run into that risk whenever

(54:55):
you turn your passion into aprofession.
And if you can stay a hobbyphotographer forever.
If you can afford it, stay ahobbyist photographer.
I feel like I'm back to being ahobbyist now because I sell my
vision, I don't shoot forclients anymore.
So I'm shooting a hundredpercent for me and there's no

(55:16):
better place for a photographerto be.

That is definitely something that I know
is gonna resonate with a lot ofphotographers as now is
definitely a time where a lot ofpeople feel like they have, like
if they help, if they're holdinga camera they have to go into
business for themselves.
A lot of people don't want to dothat and I'm glad that you
shared that.
I'm glad that you shared thatperspective for sure.

Professional photographer doesn't mean they
do better than the hobbyistphotographer.

Very true I look at some of the members in
the beginner photography podcastFacebook group and think what am
I doing?
Valerie again, thank you so muchfor your time coming on the show
before I let you go can you letthe listeners know where they
can find you online and keep upwith you?

Well, everything is under Valérie Jardin, V A L E
R I E, J A R D I N, and I rankpretty high on Google, so a
search will probably, you'llhave everything, but everything
is on my website, valeriejardin.
com, whether it's the books, thewebinars, the podcast hit the
streets on, iTunes andeverything else I do.

(56:17):
yeah.
The blogs and so forth.

All right.
Huge thank you to Valerie forcoming on the podcast.
This week's action item, whichis the one thing that if you
implement it to this week, willmove the needle forward in your
photography journey, is thisfind the light, then place your
subject.
This one honestly really helpedme to create much more

(56:41):
interesting images.
So when building a photo, Ithink that we typically just
start with the subject first.
I have a person I need tophotograph them, you know, what
can I do with them?
That's how I got started.
That's again, I think howeverybody pretty much looks at
how to build a photo.
But I want to challenge you tofirst look for the light and

(57:03):
then place your subject there.
Now in the case of streetphotography, you could find
beautiful light and then justwait for something interesting
to happen there.
In the case of portraitphotography, you would find a
beautiful light and then placeyour subject in it and then give
them an action or somethinginteresting to do.
Now, I fully understand thatthat may seem like, okay, well

(57:24):
you got six of one and half adozen of another, but I promise
you it's not two of the samething.
This is a fundamentallydifferent approach to the way
that you capture images by whilecompletely seeing the scene in
front of you and interactingwith it entirely different.

(57:44):
Having a subject and trying toplace them into the world is
like trying to fit a square peginto a round hole.
But looking for beautiful lightand then placing your subject in
there is a much more harmoniousexperience when it comes to
photography.
And again, I understand that itmay seem very similar, but it

(58:05):
won't be until you try that,you'll realize how much more of
a game changer it is.
And I would love to see whateveryou come up with.
Feel free to share it in theBeginner Photography podcast
community.
It is a free and amazingcommunity.
That is also the safest place onthe internet for new
photographers like yourself, sofeel free to come join us.

(58:26):
There's more than 6,000 fellowlisteners like yourself.
You can join right now, again,for free
over@beginnerphotopod.com slashgroup.
That is it for today.
Until next week, remember, themore that you shoot today, the
better of a photographer you'llbe tomorrow.
Talk soon.

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