Guide to Photographing Your First Major Event with Gina Milicia

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Gina Milicia (00:00):
I think that every photographer, whether you've

(00:02):
been doing it for five minutesor five years, what you need to
do is go and be photographed byanother professional
photographer.
So that you know what it feelslike to be photographed because
if you're only everphotographing people, your idea
of what that is like is a lotdifferent to actually being in

(00:24):
front of the camera and feelinghow vulnerable you feel when
you're in front of a camera andall of those emotions you go
through, you go, I understandnow.
And then you have empathy foryour model.
And when you do, I think itmakes you a better photographer.

Raymond Hatfield (00:42):
Hey, welcome to the beginner photography
podcast.
I am your host Raymond Hatfield.
And each week I interview one ofthe world's most interesting
photographers to learn what doesit really take to capture
beautiful images so that you canstart to do the same.
In today's rewind episode, weare chatting with celebrity
portrait photographer, GinaMilitia about how to prepare for

(01:03):
a big moment, be it working witha celebrity, shooting a once in
a lifetime event like a weddingor even just showing up to your
very first photo shoot.
You know, when I got startedshooting weddings before I had
got started with a podcast,Gina's podcast, So You Want to
Be a Photographer podcast,pivotal in helping me to learn

(01:25):
the ins and outs of what ittakes to really become a
professional photographer.
You know, she was a rock star.
And to get her on the podcastwas really one of those like,
first pinch me moments.
Unfortunately, Gina passed awayunexpectedly in 2022.
But her podcast co host Valeriecontinues to keep the podcast

(01:48):
up.
Like she pays yearly for, justthe hosting costs for anybody
who wants to listen.
And.
I just checked.
It's still in the top 1 percentof podcasts worldwide, which is,
I mean, amazing.
And I think it's a testament tohow much of an impact that she
made, not only with her camera,but with educating the next

(02:10):
generation of photographers likeyou.
Now, in today's episode, you'regoing to learn why you should
prioritize connection with yoursubject, how to make practice
and preparation.
Uh, part of your daily routineand get ready for this, how to
fairly price your work.
Lots here today.
So with that, let's go ahead andget on into today's interview

(02:32):
with Gina Militia.
Today's guest has over 25 yearsof experience in the photography
industry, and is one ofAustralia's top celebrity
portrait and lifestylephotographers.
She regularly travels the worldshooting for some of Australia's
top magazines.
She's also the co host of thevery popular.
So you want to be a photographerpodcast, which was actually one

(02:54):
of the inspirations for me tostart to begin a photography
podcast.
So today I'm incredibly excitedto talk to Gina Militia.
Gina, thank you so much forcoming on the podcast.

Thanks for having me, Raymond.
It's great to be here.
Of course.

I mentioned there in the intro that, the So
You Want to Be a Photographerpodcast, was definitely one of
the inspirations for me, tostart, this podcast and it's
been around for a long time.
Can you kind of talk about howyou got started and how long
it's been going on for?

Well, that's so cool to hear.
Thank you.
We've been around for I'd saycoming up to let me see 2014.
So what's that four years?

Yeah.
Yeah It's been a

while.

It's insane.
It's insane.
This road that a podcast cantake you on you just start a you
know having chats with a friendand all of a sudden it turns
into conversations that peoplewant to hear and It slowly
builds this community that Ithink a lot of photographers
lack right, especially whenyou're working from home It can
be a very lonely job as aphotographer for most wedding

(03:52):
and portrait photographers forsure And it is yeah, just having
that conversation that you canhear with somebody else.
I can tell, that in thebeginning it felt like, we were
all friends.
So I appreciate everything thatyou have, uh, done for the whole
podcast as well.
Oh,

thank, that's, that's so great to hear.
I mean, I think I was an earlyadopter of podcasts.
I think I listened to my firstpodcast, maybe 2006.

Oh wow.
So that was a long time beforeyou even started your podcast.

And I think, tips from the top floor was one of
the first ones that I listenedto.
And then I just started gettinginto other ones and, I just
enjoyed having the conversationand, and you're right.
Like while you retouching imagesor things like that, or in the
car, you felt like You makefriends with these people in
your head.

Absolutely.
It's so great.

And it's really nice.
And it's fantastic that there isthis great podcast community of
photographers now.
And, I do feel like we're allfriends and yeah, I think it's,
it's great.
It's an exciting time.

It's fun for sure.
It's fun for sure.
So also in the introduction,you're this, this anomaly where
I really didn't have to writeanything because, and when I
went to go write out anintroduction for you, I did my
research, and then I realizednobody has a better introduction
for their show than Ginaherself.
So there's nothing that I couldhave wrote better about you your
own introduction for the show.

(05:10):
So I appreciate for you alreadyhaving that ready for me and
that worked out great becausereally your experience is,
there's really not much morethan I can say for sure.
But, uh, so much.
Before we get into yourexperience in working with, in
photography for so long, I wantyou to take me back to the
beginning and I want you to tellme how you even got your start
in photography in the firstplace.

Well, I always wish when I'm asked this
question that I had, thatromantic answer that you hear
often.
And I'm sometimes I'm a bitjealous when you hear, Oh, yeah,
you know, my father and motherwere artists.
My grandparents were artists.
So I used to sit on their kneeand watch them take photos and
all of that.
But it's, it's not the case.

(05:51):
So I always loved art.
I was always an artist as achild, drawing and in my later
years in high school, Idiscovered a real love for
ceramics and sculpture, and Ialways thought, Hey, I want to.
Make a career of an artist.
But whenever I would talk aboutthis with, family and teachers,

(06:13):
everyone said, you can't be anartist.
You can't make a career as anartist because you end up
starving in a Garrett.
I didn't know what a Garrettwas.
I had to look that up.
I was just going to

ask you the same question.

It's a little attic, you know, and, uh, So
everyone said you need to havebackup, you need to have backup.
So what I thought is, okay, whenit came to choosing a university
course, I thought, all right,what I'll do is maybe I'll
become an art teacher and thatway I can still do my art, but

(06:46):
I'll have something as backup.
And I even doubled up, I goteven more paranoid and I'm like,
oh my God, Wait a minute, whydon't I do, a degree and become
an art teacher and why don't Idouble that and I actually
enrolled in an accounting degreeas well.
Oh no.
Okay, I'd enrolled in the artdegree, enrolled in the
accounting degree.
When I went to fill in all thepaperwork for the accounting

(07:08):
degree, I looked around and Irealized that these weren't my
people.
So I dropped out, dropped out ofthe accounting degree, stayed
with degree for art teaching andstarted majoring in sculpture
and thinking that I'm, I want tobe a sculptor.
That's what I want to be.
And, somewhere during thatcourse, I didn't really get, the

(07:31):
support or encouragement that Iwanted.
And I was really discouraged bythat.
I felt like, well, maybe I'm notgood enough.
So, uh, I looked around and Inoticed that on the fourth
floor, the photography students,look like they were having a
good time.
And I thought, you know what?
I'm going to major inphotography because if I ever

(07:52):
travel, it'll be good to havethat skill.
I'll be able to take good travelphotos.
So it was based on that.
It wasn't nothing else.
It was just that I thought Iwould be able to take good
travel photos.
During that time, because wewere studying to be teachers, we
all had to go out and doprofessional experience in our

(08:12):
chosen major, mine beingphotography.
As a fluke, I got sent to go andspend eight weeks with a
celebrity and fashionphotographer.
And I went along not eventhinking, I'm like, Oh yeah,
this will be fun.
I'll go and do it.
The day I walked into hisstudio, and you can imagine it

(08:34):
was like this New York loftstyle studio, and the day I walk
in, and there's a model on set,the lights, there's makeup
artists, there's stylists, andthat whole scene, when I saw it,
I thought, this is the mostamazing thing I've ever seen,
and this light went off, and Idecided then and there, this is

(08:55):
what I want to do.
I had no idea how I was going todo it, but I just knew that I
loved it.
Now, part of the course that wewere doing, they taught us how
to teach photography.
So we were taught the basics.
We were taught lighting withcontinuous lighting back then.
And it's, uh, been doing it fornow.

(09:15):
So, the one good thing that ourlecturers taught us was our, my
lecturer was a fine artphotographer and he taught us
how to process film in a fineart way.
So I had to.
That skill.
All the other skills I lacked.
So when it came to, knowing howto load a medium format
Hasselblad camera, which is whathe was using, I had no idea.

(09:39):
he showed me how to, fold thereflector.
He showed me so many times andwhen he gave it back to me, I
had several goes.
And couldn't do it, so I justsnapped it and gave it back to
him.
Yeah, but I couldn't do it andso I broke it, you know, and
that was like my first week.
And he quickly realized thatwe've got a dud here, we've got

(10:02):
a dud.
So what he did was like, Hey,why don't you hang around the
studio and to the phones?
I've got other assistance that Ican take on jobs.
I just don't have the confidenceand you're not that useful.
So that was really discouragingto me.
But the thing is my fatheralways said to me, he said,
whenever you go and work forsomeone and you've got nothing

(10:26):
to do, pick up a broom andsweep, make yourself useful.
And I remembered that.
So there I was in the studio andhe would be off doing other
shoots and I would be there bymyself with nothing to do.
And I'm like, well, have to beuseful here.
So I cleaned.
I scrubbed.
I vacuumed, I polished,bathroom, is a guy's bathroom,

(10:50):
wasn't particularly appealing soI got the bleach out, I scrubbed
the toilet, I polished it,cleaned the kitchen, everything.
And I thought, that's what I didfor eight weeks.
The other thing I did was I didprocess his film for him as
well.
When it came time to leave, Iwas ready to say goodbye, I was
hoping for a pass, and he saidto me, I noticed what you did.

(11:13):
I noticed what you did withoutasking.
And he said, you're the onlystudent that's come here and
done all of that off your ownbat.
And, he said, I want to offeryou a job.
Oh, wow.
Offer you a job as my assistant.
And I'm like, And I was shockedand I'm like, yeah, I would love
to.
And he's like, I really like howyou process film.

(11:33):
And I really like how you run mystudio and keep it clean.
So he offered me a job and so Iwas an assistant and, he did
train me up and I got the thingthat was, most instructive for
me is I spent.
A couple of years watching himwork, and he was a master at

(11:53):
connecting with people, atmaking them feel like they're
the only person in the world.
so it was there, it was just thewatching, that's where the
learning came for me.
And, from there, I startedshooting models and actors
headshots.
And then it was like a gradualprocess of, I went and worked in
a lab after that processingblack and white film.

(12:16):
And there was another educationthere because in that lab,
processing film and mind you,I'll just tell you, because
everyone is obsessed with,folio.
Of course.
All of that is important, butit's also the relationships you
make are really important, andso I went for this, job
interview working in a lab, and,they asked me to do a printing

(12:39):
test, so this is back in filmdays, and they asked me to
print, several different styles,some high contrast images, or
landscape images, You knowhandprint it and that was the
test and I thought I got the jobBecause I was so unreal at my
printing right and it was laterdown the track maybe a few weeks

(13:02):
in that I said to the guys inthe dark room.
I said so was my printing goodenough to get me and is that why
I got the job They're like noyou didn't get the job because
you're printing your printingwas terrible.
I'm like, oh I want to get thejob.
They're like, well, when you'rein the dark room waiting for
your prints to come out of thedryer, you crack so many jokes
and you made us laugh that wethought, hey, she'd be fun to

(13:25):
have around and we can train herup.
So got my break in thephotography industry, A, by
cleaning a toilet, and B, bycracking a few jokes, and you
learn the rest along the way.

That's funny, because obviously, as you
mentioned there in thebeginning, Um, just working
with, the tools that aphotographer gave you and it
just wasn't working out toowell.
Just using your own personalityand your own, experiences as a
human being to get where youwanna go.
That's great.
I'm wondering though, when youfirst started with that first
photographer, and he handed youthe camera, what, was the

(14:00):
hardest part about photography,technically for you, for you to
learn?
Um, All

of

it.
All of it.
All of

it.
Because it's like, you know, Ihave no understanding of Greek,
I don't have a Greek background.
People may as well be speakingGreek.
And I remember when the lecturerfirst started teaching us
photography at university, hespoke in f stops and shutter
speed and the exposure trianglein a, and photography was always

(14:29):
taught in a very scientific way.
Yeah.
And there are students who justcan't process information in
that way.
And that's why, when I startedwriting books, I'm like, I'm
going to teach this in acreative way and still teach all
the basics of photography.
But there is a way to explainthings that aren't going to

(14:52):
bamboozle you.
So, yeah.
Yeah, I think all of that wasthe hardest part for me,
understanding the formulas ofphotography and the relationship
between, how everything worked,but watching and I learned very
quickly that yes, that'simportant and you need to nail
that.
But beyond that, I think for me,90 percent of a shoot of a

(15:13):
successful shoot is yourconnection with the person that
you're photographing.

Now, that makes sense.
I can totally relate to that.
I think that there's a lot ofpeople though who, maybe they
don't work with, too manypeople.
So before we move on, to workingwith people, was there any
moment where you had this like,Oh, okay.
I understand how this is workingnow.
This is all starting together.
Was there anything that you weretaught that gave you that aha
moment?

I think for me, it was, learning the technical
side, but then in the learning,having it explained to you, it's
the physical act of doing itthat, that everything starts to
click into place.
So when if you don't have anunderstanding of how say shutter
speed works, actually going andtrying to photograph a moving

(15:56):
object and getting it to freeze.
It's in the doing that you say,Oh, I see.
So when I've got a slowershutter speed, everything's
blurry.
But if I speed up my shutterspeed, I can get it sharp.
So it was in the doing.
That's how I started to, for me,that's how I was learning the
craft of photography in thedoing.

That makes sense.
I often tell people that itdoesn't matter, how much you
educate yourself, how many booksyou read, how many YouTube
tutorials you watch, how manypodcasts you listen to, if you
don't actually pick up yourcamera afterwards, it doesn't
and do something about it.
It's it's kind of all all fornothing

exactly.

so In your intro I mentioned, uh that you
travel around the world that youwork with a lot of people And it
sounds all great.
It sounds wonderful.
Flying, jet setting, going toall these new locations.
And I've seen some of yourbehind the scenes videos and it
just looks like, like so muchfun.
And it looks like you're havinga great time.
Are there any misconceptionsthat people have about being a
travelling portraitphotographer.

Well I think people imagine it as being very
glamorous and kind of an easyjob and even my own family,
still to this day, think I don'tdo anything.
And you ask any non photographerlike if you ever complained
about I've had a really hard dayI've been shooting all day that

(17:15):
they look at you like what doyou mean?
It's like you pick up a camerayou pointed at someone you take
a photo.
How exhausting can that be?
So I I think, people don'tunderstand the pressure involved
in those sorts of shoots and,what it's like to be on a set,
where you've got, so manydifferent people calling the
shots and you've got, strongpersonalities that you need to

(17:37):
control.
And then you've also got thelighting that you have to nail
and the very short amount oftime you get to do the shots in.
So often when it's working with,celebrities or, high powered
CEOs and things like that, it'soften, they'll promise you,
you've got an hour to get theshot.
They always promise an hour.

(17:58):
It's usually about, Five minutesI've had I've had 50 the
shortest one.
I remember was like, ended upgiving me 15 minutes where there
was the audience was theywouldn't let the audience bump
out until I'd shot So you'reshooting in front of a couple of
thousand people as well gettingthe light and then you've got
like art directors and producersand everyone is in your ear as

(18:22):
well.
So it's, I think it is very highpressure.
So you have to know your stuff.
There aren't any do overs,you've got to be getting it
right.
So I think it's the very shortamount of time.
And I think that's when I'mever, doing workshops or things
like that, that I explain whenI'll show a photo, I'll say, I
know that a lot of you will lookat this image and think, well,

(18:45):
that light could have been a bitdifferent or I would have done
it differently.
Sure.
If you've got three hours to doa shoot, of course, you're going
to do things differently.
But when it's that sort ofpressure and the time very
short, you've got to, deliversomething.
And I think that's probably thebiggest misconception of this
sort of work.

Yeah, for sure.
I remember growing up, I don'tremember what it was, but my
stepfather was watching somesort of program on TV.
60 minutes or something.
And they followed a photographerwho was just like shooting
models on the beach.
And I remember afterwards.
My dad was this long haul truckdriver, and he, basically, what
he said afterwards wasessentially like, oh, this is

(19:26):
like the easiest job in thewhole world, anybody can do it.
And I mean, physically, comparedto a truck driver, sure, it's
not as strenuous on the body,but I think mentally, being a
photographer can be very taxing,and, and that's obviously why it
can be such a stressful job andit can be a hard day at work
when you come home and you'rejust like relaxed I know when I
come home after a wedding, it'sjust like that whole next day.

(19:47):
I just Just don't talk to me.
nobody just like, we're just notgonna talk today and I'm just
gonna gather my own thoughtsand, recoup from everything that
happened yesterday.
So I totally get that.
I'm right there on the same pageas you.

is physically exhausting as well.
Like you see for weddingphotographers or event
photographers, you're on yourfeet all day long.
And, getting up, you'resquatting down, you're all over
the place, you're lugging gearfrom location to location.
It's physically and mentallyexhausting.

Absolutely.
was lucky enough to just get abrand new, Tenba rolling
suitcase gear bags at weddings.
Oh man, it has just helped meout so much not having to lug
everything on my shoulders andjust roll it.
it's so great.
I can't recommend it enough.
Um, I want to know though,obviously when you get booked
for these big gigs and you haveto go somewhere, in terms of the

(20:35):
concept of a shoot, can you walkme through that?
Like, are you typically givensome sort of idea for how the
shoot goes?
what are the steps that you taketo prepare for delivering the
final image?

So it depends on the shoot, but most of the time
they'll say, okay, I'll have aperson that I need to shoot and
there'll be a publication that Ineed to shoot for.
so it'll either be like, if say,if you're shooting a cover and a
spread.
To go for a magazine or a seriesof often what's happening today

(21:06):
is you might photograph someoneand they'll commission you to do
a series of images that mightbe, sent out over a year so that
the celebrity actually ownstheir images.
And so you'll get a brief andwill think about how I want to
photograph that person.
And so I'll do my research andyou might get a storyboard from,

(21:27):
the client who says, okay, thisis the look and feel we want to
go with.
And this is the location thatyou'll be shooting at.
So what I'll do is jump onsomething like, if I've never
been to the location, say theyfly you to like Hawaii and like,
you know where the hotel is,I'll get on Google maps.
And have a look and get on theground level and sort of do a

(21:49):
walk around in it ahead of timeand, look for possible locations
that I might be able to, shootin.
And so I've got an idea of whatit's like and what I might be
able to do.
And then when I hit the ground,I'll do a quick recce and have a
look around and, find all thelocations.
So I'll have some ideas in myhead.
I have set of kind of Go toshots that I think I might do

(22:15):
but you I always allow for Planb.
So what happens if you do stuffenough times over and over and
over again when you get to ashoot you get into a flow and
It's almost like you're not eventhinking.
It just happens.
And so I might be planning,okay, I'll use this location.
This is the kind of lighting I'mgoing to do.

(22:36):
And I always make sure that, I'mlighting in a way that we can
move quickly and get, as manyshots as possible and as many
variations.
And then it's a matter of,getting all the shots done.
And the, most importantly whileI'm shooting I'm making sure
that everything's being backedup carefully and there's always
I think I have it in my shootsin four locations until I get

(23:00):
back to my office and I can backup another two more times.
So backing up on the go is,crucial, as is, things like
shooting tethered so I can seewhat I'm doing, while I'm
shooting.
Shooting

tethered for those listening is, when you
shoot the camera, there's a cordconnected to a computer and it
just goes to the computer sothat they can see, uh,
immediately.
Do you travel with like anassistant or do you like hire
somebody locally?

So usually, I will hire, locally, uh, it's yeah, a
lot easier.
in Australia, I'll often bringmy assistants, interstate.
but if it's overseas, it'susually I've got assistance.
That I've, I've worked with, indifferent countries around the
world.
So it's like, hopefully I canbook them again.
It's always nice to work withthe same crew as well.

(23:46):
Cause it's, it's not, you don'tneed to sort of, retrain them to
your way of doing things.
And it's not like, just like tohaving, people that I know
around me.
It just makes me feel, a lotmore comfortable.

And when they're kind of representing who
you are, in your brand, it'salways nice to have somebody
consistent who, you know, isn'tgoing to go rogue on you, for
sure.
Uh, so you mentioned that you'veobviously, right now, You've
worked with models, if you'rebeing flown out to Hawaii or
something, but you've alsoworked with very high power
CEOs.
What are some of the differencesin working with models and those

(24:19):
who are just not used to beingin front of the camera?

I think, with models, what I find is can make
your life a lot easier becauseyou can put them in front of the
camera and they're justnaturally very comfortable,
they're aware of the camera,they're aware of their body
shape and they'll give you theshot.
but what I find with models isoften they can look too modelly.
And so I'm constantly trying tono, no, no, no, just uh, and I'm

(24:44):
still micromanaging them withceos, it depends that there's
like some people you can placethem in in the spot that you
want them and explain how youwant them to stand and what you
want them to do and some peopleget it straight away others

Just if it's a board

Yeah, so It's then that I've got to, like, try all
these different techniques torelax them and connect.
So, that's probably the maindifference is, how comfortable
they are in front of the camera.

Sure, yeah.
you kind of touched on thisearlier where you talked about
there's no reshoots, obviously.
There's no chance.
There's no second chance.
And when I had, Michael JordanSmith on the podcast, Yeah.
Yeah, he Parroted the exact samething that there's no do overs,
which I think is a great way tolook at at a shoot But when you
show up with this CEO, let's usethis as the running example when

(25:39):
you show up and they're juststiff as a board.
do you do to connect with yoursubjects to create those more
authentic portraits that they'regonna be happy with right away

Well, there's a few different things that I do.
So firstly, a person's going tofeel, self conscious.
And so because they're in theirhead, they're thinking about how
they're going to be perceived inthat shot.
So they're going to beuncomfortable because they think
I look awkward or what arepeople going to think of me or
how am I going to look?

(26:07):
So often I find that, peoplewill put on, this, photo phase.
And whatever someone isthinking.
that's what comes through intheir eyes.
So my job is to get that personto get out of their thinking
mind and I often say to people,I just want you to be here with

(26:28):
me.
I want you to forget abouteverything that's going on or
what you're thinking.
And I think for me, the way Ishoot, and this goes back to
when I was shooting with film.
What we would do when we shotwith film is I would take a
Polaroid first, which wasbasically, an instant photo that
we use to, work out what ourlighting setting was and make

(26:50):
sure that we, nailed the shotbefore we start, blowing film.
And so I would make sure that Ialways showed my client the
Polaroid.
And I'm like, this is how youlook.
Okay, so you know that theshot's good.
And so then you get them onsite.
You've got their confidence.
So I often use the digital imageto say, okay, so here's the

(27:11):
shot.
Here's what I want you to do.
I will always get in and pose inthe pose that I want them to do.
I'll get in there myself and doit.
This is how I want.
This is how I want your hands.
This is where your head's goingto be.
That's where the camera is goingto be.
This is where I want your eyesto look.
And I get them set up and Iallow them to get into that

(27:32):
position and get comfortable.
And then it's all about thebanter that happens between me
and the client.
And, it's the chit chat.
and I say that it's like a lotof photographers will get on and
they think that they need towork very quickly at this point,
but this is what I say, this iswhen you need to slow down, and

(27:52):
this is when you need to chatand connect and, find a way to
relax that person and get themout of their thinking mind.
So, a lot of techniques, like Ifind that, Say I'm working with
a CEO who's up in their headthinking constantly.
I'll get them to do somethinglike All right The most basic

(28:13):
one that I learned and this wasfrom the first photographer that
I trained with What he used todo with people is have you
noticed when you photographsomeone and they're looking at
the camera and they're smilingafter a while that smile becomes
fake and it's not connected tothe eyes and the eyes kind of
take on that starry sort of alook.

What are we doing here?
Yeah.

Yeah.
But they'll just be, they'll besmiling and staring.
If you can keep someone's eyesmoving, that will help, better.
Keep their eyes fresh and so asimple thing to do is to just
have the person You've got thehead in the position that you
want them and You'll get them tolook at camera and then every
time I take a frame i'll sayjust your eyes Just look away

(28:56):
and then look back to me.
Oh, okay and look away And lookback to me and that is a really
simple beginner technique thatyou can use that gives your
model fresh eyes You So that youlose that starey sort of thing.
The other thing you can do is,just like you keep talking
through the whole shoot.
What you want to look for is tomake sure that the smile is

(29:20):
real, because when someone isnervous, they'll be smiling, The
smile is here, but it doesn'tconnect to the eye.
So you want to get a genuinesmile.
And that's like, you need to doeverything in your power as a
photographer to make sure thatthey're smiling for real, not
just the pretend smile.

(29:41):
So what I like to do is I'lltalk to them and ask them
questions about their life.
Like, have you got a dog?
Tell me about your dog.
What's your dog do?
What's your dog's name?
And what's your favorite thingabout your dog?
Or do you have like, if they'vegot a partner, someone they
love, or they've been on aholiday somewhere, tell me about

(30:01):
that holiday.
One thing I do with actors a lotis because they're creatives, I
get them to visualize ascenario.
I'm like, have you everfantasized about winning an
Academy Award?
Yes.
Well, what would that look like?
So imagine who would be onstage?
Calling out your name toannounce that you've won best
actor or best actress Who wouldit be and then they'll name it

(30:24):
what their favorite actor andi'm like And have you thought
about your acceptance speechwhat we said?
Okay, let's go through it And Iactually go with them on that
journey and talk them throughand you can physically see their
eyes light up at the thought ofthis and it gets them out of
that because you would besurprised at how many actors are
actually really nervous in frontof a still camera because they

(30:48):
need something to do that.
They're trying to be movingconstantly So if you give them
these scenarios and this worksfor everyone, You've got a mom
and the you know, the mom isalways thinking about I hope all
the kids look good So you'reasking them to think of things
everything you think of isreflected in the eyes And that

(31:09):
comes through and you get thatgenuine smile and that that
beautiful warm open friendlyface

Yeah, I can tell just i'm not even an actor
and i'm already thinking aboutmy acceptance speech to the
academy awards Yeah, and

your eyes light up and you physically, watch
someone, relax at that thoughtand I think the other thing as
photographers that we can do forpeople that we're photographing
You Is that if someone, is infront of your camera and they
tell you that they're nervous,don't ever write that off as
something, or don't be silly.
That's ridiculous.

(31:42):
I always say, yeah, me too.
I hate being photographed.
So I'm going to share something.
be vulnerable with you as well.
Yeah.
I hate it as well.
I feel really uncomfortable, youknow, and then they feel like,
oh, well, I'm not being silly.
And then you've And you can talkabout like, what is it, that you
don't like about beingphotographed?
And they might tell you a storyabout, well, once I was

(32:03):
photographed and this happened,or I didn't like how my nose
looked and, things like that.
And you just connect on a humanlevel and, you know, say it's
okay to feel vulnerable at thispoint.

Yeah.
You know, That's a reallyinteresting trick and I'm gonna
have to try that next timebecause I've always done that.
I've just written it off and notin the sense of like, Oh, don't
be silly, but more of the, like.
Don't worry like this will befun like just get over it type
feeling But I think I thinkyou're right letting them know
that I hate being in front ofthe camera as well I don't think
anybody's comfortable in frontof the camera.

(32:36):
Yeah but we're gonna do our bestand try to have some fun today
and try to find out what it islike why that they don't like to
be in front of the camerabecause Maybe it is something
simple that you can fix as aphotographer by just maybe
changing the direction in whichyou shoot.
So, I love that tip.
Exactly.

Yeah, yeah.

Great.
want to know, obviously, youwork, mostly with models and
doing portraits and headshotsand stuff.
Yeah.
as a wedding photographer, isthere anything that I can do
for, working with couples?
Maybe putting them in asituation that isn't, cheesy, I
guess for, for lack of a betterterm, anything that I can do to
make them feel more authenticand true to their photos.

Yeah.
I think a great thing that I'vedone with couples is to make
them authentic.
what I like to do, for theweddings that I've shot is I
like to use a very long lens.
And what I say to the couple is,uh, and it's obviously you have
them after they're married.
So it's that bit.
it's an exciting time and I'llsay to them, okay, guys, you're

(33:33):
married.
How exciting.
This is great.
What I want you to do.
I'll set them up.
I'll get them in a nice, cozycouple y pose and I'll say to
the groom.
All right.
I want you to whisper somethinginto your bride's ear.
Tell her how much you love her,whatever.
don't care what you say.
I'm going to be way back there.

(33:53):
So, I won't be able to hear whatyou're saying, but I just want
you to, share this specialmoment and so you're right back
out of their space and this iswhy I love shooting long for
these moments and you mightshoot some doors so it sort of,
feels a little bit more intimateand you'll have the couple set
up and he will be whisperingstuff into her ear and the groom

(34:17):
is side on the bride's front onand you focus on her expression
and he's telling her beautifulthings.
Of course, she's going to lightup and that's authentic and
that's real.
And so I always give them, lotsof direction like that to,
create those authentic moments.
That's great.
That's great.
Give them authentic moments.

(34:37):
Yeah.

I'm sure right after, well, I know right after,
the ceremony, it's always,there's that like adrenaline is
going and then now we have to gobe alone with this photographer
and take photos.
So sometimes that can kind oftake it away and that puts the
spotlight back on them and letsthem have their moment back.
I love that tip.
I love that tip for sure.
This is slightly unrelated totoday's topic, but, I know that

(35:00):
you have experience with this,which is why I wanted to ask
recently, in the beginnerphotography podcast, Facebook
group, there was a questionabout, from a new photographer.
She's great.
She loves to photograph beer.
So like what she does, she goesto so many different breweries
and she just like photographsbeer, posted on Instagram.
Well, a local brewery got windof this, got really excited and,

(35:23):
wants her to shoot like a miniadvertising campaign for them.
That's what, that's whateverybody said.
Like, wow, this is exactly whatyou wanted.
You know what I mean?
This is essentially everythingthat you're already doing, but
now you're getting paid for it.
But now the question is,advertising, how, I that you've
worked with advertisers before.
What are some of the things thatgo through your head when you

(35:43):
try to determine pricing for agig like this?

Well advertising pricing is different to portrait
pricing because you need tofactor in so with portrait
pricing there is a few differentways to, price for portraits.
It might be that a lot ofportrait photographers will have
a very low sitting fee andthat's the get the people in the
door.

(36:07):
And then, what you get for thatsitting fee is a The sitting
feet you'll get the proofs youget to see the images, but the
client doesn't get anything elsefrom that and then you bring the
clients back and you show themthe images and basically you're
selling them each shot.
So that's how portraitphotographers make their money
So it's in the hope that they'vetaken lots of shots and that the

(36:29):
client will love them all andbuy lots of different images,
and I think that's probably howyou price your weddings, right?

No, no, no, I

just There's a booking fee, or is it like a
fixed rate when you do yourwedding?
It's fixed.
No, no add ons?
Right.
Well, right.
Yeah, so with portraits, it's alow seating fee, and then it's
Per image after that withadvertising you need to quote,
it's slightly different So it'seither an hourly or a half day

(36:57):
or a daily rate And then youneed to also include all the
costs of creating that image.
So that might be, preproduction, which means that
you're going out to the locationto scout around, to determine
how it is that you're going todo that shoot.
And then you might be adding inthe cost of the assistant.

(37:19):
There might be additional lightsthat need to be hired for that
particular shoot.
So there'll be lighting hire.
There might be props as wellthat you need to, find or hire.
So there might be other.
Those costs as well and theother costs will be like if
there's models involved.
Are you hiring the models?
Then there's the actual physicalfiles that you'll be shooting.

(37:42):
So you'll be charging per shotFor the files and then there's
post production that happens andso you're taking those images
and how much retouching is goingto happen and then after that
you need to work out the licenselicensing fee.
So how are the images going tobe used are they going to end up

(38:04):
on billboards?
Are they going to be inmagazines and is that going to
be a worldwide campaign or is itgoing to be a local campaign
just in your local city?
How many eyes are going to be onthat campaign?
So these are all factors thatcome into the costing in it for
an advertising gig Would

you recommend?
Since this is her kind of firstone, would you recommend cause I
think that she's feeling a bitoverwhelmed to charge like
really low in the hopes that youuse this for a learning
experience?
Or would you recommend likereally go into the nines and
doing it all proper?

That's tough.
look when you're, breaking intothe industry, what you want to
do is get experience as aphotographer, you also want to
make relationships as aphotographer.
Right?
and so get your name out there.
While I'm not of the belief thatif photographers, because there
are a lot of companies that aretaking advantage of

(39:05):
photographers today, wherethey're saying, Hey, why don't
you do this shoot?
We'll get you a lot moreInstagram likes.
Well, you can't eat offInstagram likes.
Right.
So I think you need to price asto your experience.
So if it is like this, she'scoming from a position where
she's never done this before andthis is her first time, you

(39:30):
don't need to charge like aphotographer that's been doing
it for 10 years.
Um, I'll tell you what, in myvery, very early years as a
photographer starting out, I wastaking my portfolio to uh,
television network, to see ifthey would give me some work.
And when I was in the elevatorgoing up.

(39:50):
To see the publicist there,there was another photographer
in the elevator and we got intoa conversation and he said,
like, what are you doing?
And I said, I'm going to seethis publicist and da da da.
And it turned out that this wasa photographer that was also
working for them.
He was already an establishedphotographer doing work.
And he said to me, do me afavour.

(40:11):
when you price yourself, hesaid, make sure that you get the
job on, you're based on ability,not because you're going to
undercut us all.
And I, I remembered that, and Iwent in and, when the publicist
asked me what my rates were, andhe gave me a rate.
He said, don't go under this.
And I went, okay, thanks.
Thanks for the tip.
And when she asked me my hourlyrate, I quoted him exactly the

(40:34):
rate that the guy had told me.
And she said, that's fairenough.
And so I walked out of thatmeeting, feeling really proud of
myself that I'd scored that jobbased on merit, not on
undercutting.
The danger of coming in toocheap is you're then known as
the cheap photographer, and it'svery hard to go anywhere, but if

(40:55):
you do the work and are knownfor your point of difference,
like you might be on set and,like with this girl with the
beer company, obviously they'verecognized that she has, a great
eye because they love what she'sdoing.
Okay, so you've got to backyourself that that is already
your point of difference andthen you just outwork everyone

(41:16):
else and make sure that whenyou're on set you're easy to get
on with Really important reallyimportant and that you deliver
the job it might be that, yes,she's going to come in a little
bit lower than say at someonewho's been working in
advertising for 20 years, butdon't sell yourself short.
Don't come in too low.

I love it.
I think that's just solid advicekind of throughout life.
Really?

Yeah, definitely.
Yeah.

When you were in the elevator and the
photographer told you not tocharge under this amount, was it
more or less than what you hadalready planned on saying your
day rate was going to be?

It was a little bit more so.
Oh, good.
It was uncomfortable, and thisis something, that we talk about
a lot in my gold community, withphotographers.
It comes up a lot like theanxiety over pricing and
charging.
And, I've had photographers thatI'm mentoring that I'll say,
double your prices.
And they'll go no one will wantto book me.

(42:13):
I'm like, yes, they will It'llweed out the ones that were only
ever shopping on price, butyou'll get a new, level of
client that actually appreciateyour work.

Yeah, I think when starting out it's hard to
uh, Your price with the qualityclients that you're gonna get
you just assume like well I'malready doing this for free I
love doing it.
Why would I charge for it?
And now now i'm going to chargean exorbitant amount I'm still
the same photographer that I wasI see that it's that hard mental
barrier to get over But like yousaid it can really I mean it can

(42:46):
change everything change whoyou're working with and yeah And
just let you live a lifestylethat you're happy with so who
doesn't want that

and the other thing raymond is like Yes, back
yourself and remember that, thathour or two that you spend
shooting is not an hour or two.
It's not that it's like for youto get to that point has taken
you maybe five years of researchand testing and learning and

(43:15):
that's what the client is payingfor it's not an hourly rate and
it's easy to confuse when youmight come from A job where
you've been paid for it, youknow per hour and you think well
like, That's a good rate at myday job, but it's not the same
in a creative field It's likethey're not paying you for the
hour.
They're paying you for all theexperience that you bring to

(43:37):
that hour.
Right.
It's not yet.
So it's a different way ofthinking.

That reminded me actually of, your story
about, going to Hawaii andphotographing a molly, you said
that, you have some like go toposes that you go into just to
make sure that you geteverything and that that comes
with the experience, obviously,which we were just talking about
right there.
can you share some of those likego to must have poses that just,
you Pretty much can make almostanybody look good.

Yeah, so What I find is if you're photographing
someone It doesn't matter whothey are whether they're you
know A model who's worked forever in a day or it's their
first photo shoot People like tofeel supported of course when
they're being photographed soWhat I do for the first shot
male or female Is i'll get themto lean against a wall You And

(44:29):
it's a simple act of gettingsomeone to lean against the
wall, they've got something,it's like they feel supported.
If you, because there's nothingmore uncomfortable, and to go
off on a tangent here, I thinkthat every photographer, whether
you've been doing it for fiveminutes or five years, what you

(44:49):
need to do is go and bephotographed by another
professional photographer.
So that you know, What it feelslike to be photographed because
if you're only everphotographing people your idea
of what that is like is a lotdifferent to actually being in
front of the camera and feelinghow vulnerable you feel When

(45:11):
you're in front of a camera andall of those emotions you go
through, you go, I understandnow.
And then you have empathy foryour model.
And when you do, I think itmakes you a better photographer.
So I think that idea of givingthem something to feel
supported, leaning up against awall.
That is a great way to startbecause the mistake that a lot

(45:32):
of new photographers make is thefirst thing they'll do is
they'll ask someone to, okay,just stand in front of the
camera.
and like you're standing thereon your own, people don't know
what to do with their hands.
They don't know what to do withtheir feet.
They don't know where to puttheir head.
They don't know how to look, orthey'll do these, awkward poses
that they've seen everyone elsedo.
And so that simple one, lean upagainst a wall or sit them down

(45:55):
in a chair is a great way, tostart the shoot and then I'll,
I'll flow from there.
So another one that I love andit works for everyone because
it's very flattering is to givethem something to lean on.
So it might be a bench.
That they can cross their armsin front of and that lean
forward.
And it's just that act ofleaning forward and head down.

(46:19):
So already it's squaring up thejaw.
It makes them feel confident.
They feel supported.
Again, they've got something tolean on.
And, they can't move around asmuch.
So for you as the photographerit makes it easier for you to
focus on their eyes and thingslike that because they don't
have too many places to go.
Whereas where they're standingthey can be all over the place.

(46:40):
So they're two that are reallygood starting points and then
from there, you can build onthose.
I think one thing that's alsoreally important is to, as a
photographer, if, portraitphotography is something that
you really want to get into,then practice posing so that you
know how to do it.
Because if you know how to poseand you know how to make your

(47:03):
own body look good and poseconfidently, then when you're
showing your model, and I thinkit's really important to show
your model rather than tell, Ofcourse.
And they see you in that poselooking comfortable and relaxed.
That's another way you'reconnecting with them.
It's like, look, I'm doing it.
And And they go, oh, you lookokay doing that.

(47:24):
And then it's easier for them todo it as well.

So when you mean practice posing, you mean
practice posing yourself.
Yeah.
I love it.
Oh, that's such a great advice.
Yeah, in

your spare time.
And it's like, there's noexcuses.
We've all got smartphones.
photograph yourself.
Yeah.
On that though, I also believethat, I think I see a lot of
photographers that when the, sayif the model is coming to a
particular location and they'realso lighting the shot.
they're doing it with the modelthere.

(47:53):
And I don't think that's a goodidea.
I think you should always have astand in and a great tip that I
tell all my students to do islike, you can't always have an
assistant that that's an extraexpense.
Although if you're part of aphotography group, I think a
really good thing that if you'vegot photographers in your area,

(48:14):
that you swap assisting gigs.
So you help each other.
It's like, I'll assist you onyour job if you come and assist
me on my job.
So you can learn from each otherand help each other.
If you can't and you can'talways have an assistant, but
you need something to help youset the shot up, get yourself a
styrofoam head.

(48:35):
Like you can get them from craftshops.
Yeah, okay So they're full sizestyrofoam heads.
You can actually put that onto alight stand Okay, and i've got
one his name's wayne Okay, andyou you take him to the location
and you set him up and you testyour light.
So even if you're shootingdaylight, you've got an idea.

(48:58):
Well, okay, this is whereWayne's going to be.
I'm going to set him up there.
I've got the light behind.
That's right.
And you can do a test shot.
And then you go into the shootwith so much more confidence.
That you know you've got theshot and you can also use this,
at home if you're justpracticing with different
lighting.
So you've got a window that youthink, Oh, I wonder what the
light's like here.

(49:19):
Well, let's bring Wayne in, sethim up, see how it works.
And so you can practice yourlighting.
If you don't always have peopleto work with.
I've got one, there's one outthe back that now he's set up.
Wayne, I was using him yesterdaybefore I, cause I was
practicing.
Doing a new lighting style.
I said, I'll just like bust outWayne and test it out.
Oh, this is so

great.
This is so great.
Yeah.
I don't know why I never thoughtof that.
I never thought of that.
But that's such a practical tipthat anybody can do.
Anybody can go to a craft storeand pick that up.
Five

bucks.
Five bucks.
and the other tip that I wouldhave is that when you do that,
that they're white.
I would paint it mid gray.
I was just going to ask thatsame question.

Intro (49:57):
Yeah.

Yeah, because obviously, no one has, like, a
bright white skin tone.
A bleached white, yeah.
But yeah, it is.
So, paint it a mid gray, andthen that's a, like, an average
skin tone, but it's a start, so,

yeah.
Oh, man.
I might have to stop by my localcraft store after this practice
that, because that is, it's justsmart, just such a smart, simple
tip.
And it's so, like, Why didn't Ithink of that?
That's, that's so great.
But I'm sure my kids would Yeah,I don't Oh, man.

So, I've had I'll have to come up with a name.
You can get ones with hair aswell.
Oh, really?
Like, you can get pipe ones.
You can get them They're justlike mannequins, styrofoam
heads.
But you can get next level oneswhere they've got hair.
So some of my students have gotfemale ones, some have got male
ones, and they've all namedthem.
It's the name that just

throws me off every time and I'm not sure why,
but it's, whatever works,whatever works.
That's hilarious.
I'm sure my wife would love merunning around the house.
Where's Sarah?
Babe, do you know where Sarahis?
Has

anyone seen Jenny?

Yeah, exactly.
Who are all these women?
Why are they in this house?
That's hilarious.
I want to know, you've had, uh,Years of experience you've been
shooting for a very long time Iwant to know if you've ever had
an embarrassing moment on setyou can share today, of course

and i've shared this on another podcast, but
i'll share it with thelisteners.
so all my most of myembarrassing moments happened
pre Digital so during film whereit was a lot harder to check And
it's embarrassing, but also likejust devastating that I shot a
wedding.

(51:34):
And.
I had a, a Mets flash.
So do you remember those?
So they were like an externalflash and they were like a big,
big unit.
Okay.
And, it's film that I'm shootingand, it was a wedding and it
rained.
It was dark, middle of winterand, raining.
So, I was shooting, uh, Philflash.

(51:57):
But really, there wasn't anyfill light.
So the flash was doing all thework.
So obviously I'm not, I don'tknow idea if I'm getting it
right.
I'm just assuming the flash isgoing off.
Okay.
You gotta hope everything wasworking, rolls.
I think 15 rolls of film, theygo off.
Oh, and all day, the bridegroom, the family going.

(52:19):
Oh, Gina, you're unreal.
We think you're great.
We can't wait to see the photosand I'm high fiving everyone and
like, you know, yeah, yeah,they'll be so good.
Strut out of there.
It's the Monday.
The films have gone in.
assistant calls from the lab.
Um, there's a problem.
I'm like, what do you mean?
He's like, the films are allblack.
I'm like, ha ha ha ha.

(52:41):
That's not funny.
No, there's nothing on the filmsthe Mets flash was firing, but
it had blown a tube And whathappens is they still admit a
flash, but nowhere near powerfulNothing.
So there was one frame where Itook them outside, they were
under an umbrella, there wasenough fill light to get an

(53:03):
image, everything else, nothing.
I had to ring the bell.
What did you do?
Well, you, go into the fetalposition in the corner and cry,
right?
But then the couple are like, wecan't wait, they ring me and
can't wait to see the photoscan't wait to see the photos And
I'm like guys, I'm so sorry.

(53:24):
I didn't get anything, and thiscouple Beautiful come to the
studio and the first thing theydo is they just give me a big
hug.
They're consoling me.
Wow Yeah Classy, hey sure.
Yeah.
Yeah, I was devastated.
I mean I refunded their moneyand I don't think I did another
This was maybe my first orsecond year as a photographer

(53:47):
and I don't think I did shotanother wedding for many many
years After that

it was awful that would give me a heartache
for sure.
Just thinking about that Youcan't imagine what I would do,
but I guess you just have to behonest and do everything that
you can.

Yeah.
So the thing about makingmistakes is make them early in
your career, but also from eachmistake, like I will never.
Assume that my gear is workingCheck it double check triple
check all the time A lot harderto do today because you'll see
the image on the back of thecamera.
You'll know, but back then

Oh, man Well, i'm glad that you made it out
and that it didn't scar youenough So that you just gave up
because i'm sure that thoughtmust have been running through
your head because I know thatit's running through my head
right now and it didn't evenhappen to me I want to thank you
though, because we've gone wayover the allotted time, and I
tend to do this more often thannot, but I really do appreciate

(54:44):
everything and you coming on andsharing everything that you did
today.
For the listeners who arelistening and have loved this
interview, because I know thatthey did, can you let them know
where they can find you online?

So they can find me at GinaMalicia.
com.
So that's G I N A M I L I C I Aand as you said, there's a
Podcast so you want to be aphotographer.
So just look for that in iTunes.
And yeah, I'm also on Instagramat Gina Malicia, Twitter
Facebook, all those places,yeah, at Gina Militia.

Perfect, perfect.
Gina, is there anything that Ididn't ask you today that maybe
you still want to share with thelisteners?
That you want to make sure thatthey know?

oh, I mean, look, if, if anyone's interested in,
mentoring or learning aboutposing and lighting, they want
to take that.
to the next level.
I have a goal community and youcan have a look and check all of
that out.
Just go to Gina militia.
com and click on join thecommunity and you'll get all the
information there.

Perfect.
Gina again, thank you so muchfor coming on.
I had an absolute blast talkingto you today.

Thanks, Raymond.
It was a pleasure.

All right, let's take one thing that you
learned from this interview withGina and turn it into an action
item.
For me, I mean, it's practicinglighting with a styrofoam head,
right?
This is by far the most uniqueand totally genius tips anyone
has ever shared on the podcast.
So, here's what you need to do.

(56:13):
Head to your local craft storeand buy yourself a styrofoam
head and some mid gray paint.
Paint the head and then mount itto a light stand and then just
move it around your house Inpockets of light, to photograph
it and see how the light fallson your subject.
Then, you know, you look at yourphotos, you review them, and
then you can use what youlearned about direction of
light, where it needs to be,while next time you're out

(56:37):
working with people, like, withreal, fleshy, non styrofoam
heads.
And it'll help, I promise.
And as you progress, you'll beable to use things like off
camera flash to learn how toalways make your subjects look
their best.
Remember, this podcast is notabout simply gathering as much
information as possible and thendoing nothing with it.

(56:59):
This podcast is about takingaction.
You took the time to listentoday.
Take the time to do the nextstep to better your photography
skills.
It beats doom scrolling.
I promise.
That is it for today.
Until next week.
Remember the more that you shoottoday, the better of a
photographer you will betomorrow.

(57:20):
Talk soon.

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.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Guide to Photographing Your First Major Event with Gina Milicia

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}24/7 News: The Latest

Stuff You Should Know

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Guide to Photographing Your First Major Event with Gina Milicia

24/7 News: The Latest