How Community Support Fuels Photographic Success with Jim Sinicki

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jin Sinicki (00:00):
Go into your Facebook communities.

(00:01):
Like make people sick of yourwork.
So that way at some point theywere like, Oh, Hey, I want to
get, I want to get a photo takenwith my son or I want to
remember this day with mydaughter.
This guy posts photos all thetime.
Let's talk to him.
You know, I'm telling you nowthat's where I get 90 percent of
my bookings.
It's just something like that.

Raymond Hatfield (00:19):
Well, hey there.
Welcome to the BeginnerPhotography Podcast.
I am your host, RaymondHatfield, and each week here's
what I do.
I interview one of the world'smost interesting photographers
to learn what does it reallytake to capture beautiful
images?
And I share that with you sothat you can start to do the
same.
In today's rewind episode, weare chatting with community

(00:39):
member and moderator Jim Snicky,about facing your failures,
seeking feedback and buildingconnections to grow as a
photographer.
But first, the BeginnerPhotography Podcast is brought
to you by Clouds Spot.
With clouds spott, you cansimplify your business with
studio management, you canorganize clients, send
professional contracts, andautomate invoice payments and

(01:01):
more.
Keeping track of everything inyour growing photography
business just got a whole loteasier.
So grab your free foreveraccount today
over@deliverphotos.com and onlyupgrade when you and your
business are ready.
Raise your hand if you have evercompared yourself to another
photographer's work you've seenonline.
I know I have.
Raise your hand if you have everfelt like, your gear is not

(01:23):
enough.
I, I'm raising my hand.
And raise your hand if you haveever felt overwhelmed by all of
the photo tech nerd lingo.
Yeah, I've been there too.
Now raise your hand if despiteall of that, you still love
photography and when you capturea great shot, it all becomes

(01:43):
worth it.
Yeah, me too.
Well, guess what?
If you're like me, you are ingood company because today's
guest and community member andmoderator, Jim Snicky has been
there too.
In today's interview, we talk alot about his earliest mistakes,
the embarrassing things that heGoogled when trying to learn
photography and how he overcamethe challenges to become not

(02:05):
only a great photographer, but apretty solid dude.
All of that, despite being aMilwaukee Brewers fan.
So brave.
All right, all jokes aside, Ithink honestly, that you're
gonna love this, very candid andauthentic conversation about
photography.
And why don't you be like, Jim,join him, myself, and more than

(02:27):
6,000 other photographers justlike you, looking to learn and
grow your skills by joining theBeginner Photography podcast
community.
It is free, it's fun, andhonestly, it's the safest place
on the internet for newphotographers.
So if you want to join us, headover to beginner photo
pod.com/group.
Again, that's beginner photopod.com/group and join the

(02:48):
party.
All right, with that, let's goahead and get on into today's
interview.
Jim, you've been a member of theFacebook group for, like more
than two years now, which isawesome.
So congratulations.
I appreciate you being in thegroup and being such a
contributing member, as much asyou are.
And it's been cool that over thepast two years, I've been able

(03:09):
to see like your progression,not only like in your
photography and like thequestions that you were asking
early on versus the questionsthat you're asking now, but also
like to see you, you know, starta business.
And like, all these things areso cool to be able to, see your
growth.
and now that you've been doingthis for a few years, I want to
know, like, take me back tothose early days, right?
This is that first question.

(03:30):
Like, I really want to know,what was it about photography
for you?
Like in the beginning that youthought, like, well, this is
awesome.
And I want to do more of this.

Yeah.
So, Big reveal here, uh, pastguest, Martin Moore.
I actually started watching hisphotography and I, I didn't know
how to use a camera back then.
But I started watching hisphotography and I thought to
myself, he's pretty good atthis.
I wonder if I can do that.
You know, I, I'm pretty good atfiguring some stuff out.
So let me see what I can do.
So I always actually tried tostrive to be like him early on.

(03:57):
and I really just kind of foundmyself over editing things just
to try to match his, his style.
Yeah, so I'm sorry.
What was the question?
I kind of rambled on there.

It was so, you saw Martin's photography and you
liked it.
You said, I can kind of figurethis out.
But what was like, what was it?
Because, a lot of people seebeautiful photos online, but
they don't think, Oh, maybe Icould do that.
Or I'm going to do that or takethe action to do that.
So what was it about his work orphotography in general that made
you go on and do it?
So,

I've never seen Milwaukee, the way that Marty
did, it looked beautiful, itlooked colorful, it looked
vibrant, it looked like peopleloved being there.
over the last few years, likeMilwaukee has just been kind of
drab and, and just not as fun asit used to be like when I was
growing up.
So to see it the way that he sawit, I wanted to just almost
recreate that for myself.

Gotcha.
Okay.
Okay.
So, the idea there in thebeginning was.
Let me see.
So you're going to have thiscamera and you want to kind of,
was it to recreate what it wasthat you saw as a kid or simply
put yourself or make yourself astaple in Milwaukee to, to be
that place to what it was likewhen you were a kid.

To be honest with you, I think it was more, um,
out publicly, I think it wasmore I wanted to just bring back
those memories, of being a kid.
but I think inside it wanted tobe me, more being a staple in
Milwaukee and trying to make aname for myself out there.
What is it about Milwaukee?

Like, you grew up there, but like, now here is
your time to tell the world,like, this is why Milwaukee is
the best.
What is it about Milwaukee?

Alright, so Milwaukee is the little city
that could.
Everybody thinks that we're likethe little brother of Chicago,
who just can't do anything toget out of its own way.
But Milwaukee's got a heart of alion, honestly.
We don't quit.
We work hard.
Struggle through the winters.
We enjoy the summers.
We have the best music here.
Uh, summer fest is going on insummer time.

(05:50):
We have the best beer.
So if you ever want to come downto milwaukee or up to milwaukee,
uh, that's the place To be trustme.
I could take you around greatfood and just just really great
people all around and I think Ireally wanted to try to
celebrate that a little bitmore.

Mm hmm.
So So then now you have thismission You want to capture
Milwaukee as if, to show offthat it is, heaven on earth, you
could say.
So you got the camera.
What happened?

Well, after that, my wife and I, we got pregnant
and, a little inside baseballfor a lot of people here.
We tried really hard to getpregnant for quite a few years.
And when we found out we'repregnant, I decided I was going
to be not the mom photographer,the mom photographer, as I call
it.
But I wanted to be the dadphotographer.
So when my kid was born, it justquickly turned into, I want to
take pictures of my son.
I want to be, I want to takethese pictures and remember it

(06:38):
all from there.
And then as he got a little bitolder, I was like, I can do this
for other people and I can tryto build my business that way.
So that's kind of where I amnow.

Did you think from the beginning that you
wanted to definitely have abusiness?
Like when you first got thatcamera, did it evolve into that?

I mean, I think everybody who picks up the
camera wants to start a businessright away.
Like that's the first thing tothink of.
It's not, how can I shoot thecamera?
How can I learn the aperture?
How can I learn to focussomething better?
It's how can I quickly makemoney off of this?
And nobody, nobody really thinksof how to do it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Why do you think that is?
Why do you think when peoplefirst pick up that camera, they
think, oh, I wonder how I can,or how to make money with this.

Oh, we live in the Instagram, the YouTube lifestyle
right now.
So everybody just sees thesenobodies who make it big on
YouTube, and they think they'remaking millions of dollars, and
they think they can do that forthemselves.

Do you think that, like, let me see, what's
the question I'm trying to thinkof here?
guess I'm just trying to getinto your head as far as like,
how deep down the rabbit holedid you see yourself going when
you first got the camera?
Or was it really like, no, likehow much of that developed?

I think like everybody else, I went pretty
deep down the rabbit hole atfirst.
I was, you know, just how can Iget these, these amazing shots
and how does lighting work?
And best and worst thing thathappened to me was I put my
photography I'm lying for peopleto see it because that was a
kick in the pants.
That was reality coming back tome saying, dude, you kind of

(08:08):
suck at this.
So

no, no, no, hold on.
What do you mean?
Like, talk me through that.
What does that mean?

Well, basically, you know, you think that you
take these amazing photos, andthen like you, you kind of put
up against everybody else causeyou don't know what you're doing
and you see that and you say toyourself, my photos are not
nearly as good as this.
Like nobody is, come out andsaid like your photos suck, but
when you see them lined up tosomebody who has been shooting
for five, 10, 15 years, versusyou, who think you're awesome at
three months in.

(08:36):
It's reality.
You realize that you don't knowas much as you think you do, so
take a few steps back.

But if you haven't been shooting for five
or ten years, like, how is thatan equal measurement, for you to
compare your work againstsomebody else?

It's not, it's definitely not, but you don't
know that going in.
You just see these amazingphotos and you think, that's a
great photo.
Why can't mine look like that?
And it's because you don't knowexposure triangle.
You don't know how to editphotos.
I still don't know how to editphotos.
I've been doing this for acouple of years.
Like you said, that's, that's mybiggest struggle still.

Well, then let's stay back there at the
beginning, when you firststarted uploading your photos,
and you realize there was that,that gap essentially between
your photos and say somebodywho's been shooting for 510
years.
Like, what do you think thatwas?
Where did that come from?
Like, what were you strugglingwith or lacking technically, do
you think?

When I first started it was, it was
everything.
It was composition.
it was the exposure triangle.
It was even knowing theterminology.
Like when somebody says F stop,I'm like, Oh, I don't know what
that is.
It's like, what does that mean?
Mine goes to 5.
6.
Is that good?
No.
Okay.
Well, how do I change that?
So it's just a lot of learning.
It's, it's knowing that youdon't know what you don't know.

(09:49):
So

where do you

learn right here?
Honestly, I tell people all thetime, like I tell people, if you
want to learn, go see RaymondHatfield and the Beginner
Photography Podcast.
Because I swear to you, Ilearned everything I know in
photography because of you andthe people in this group.

First of all, that's crazy, because you have
to like take, this is gonnasound like the worst, like
humble brag ever, but like, Iget emails from people saying
like, Hey, you know, thanks somuch.
Like, the podcast has reallyhelped me learn photography and
my response is always like, Ididn't do anything.
Like you are the one who has thecamera.
Like anybody can listen to it.

(10:26):
Yeah.
I'll tell you, I watch likeshows on how to build tiny homes
and like how to build race cars.
I could watch those all day, butI don't do any of those things,
you know?
It's, it's you who takes theaction to go out and do those
things.
So

No, I'll say a hundred percent.
I mean, join the, the group andlisten and, and, look at
pictures all you want to, butyou're not going to learn if you
don't ask those questions.

And

I think, You know, like, like you said, the
beginning here, my questionsback then versus the way they
are now are completely differentbecause again, I didn't know
what I didn't know.
So I was asking the samequestions that every new person
asks when they come in.

Yeah, that's that's

how we all learned

right.
Okay, so you come into the groupyou're asking questions What do
you think was one of the biggestmoments for you?
When it comes to learningphotography like was there this
moment for you where it was justlike oh my gosh Like all of this
fits together now, like this isstarting to make sense Uh, when,
you know, you're trying to, uh,pick your, did you get that
moment?

Yeah.
So I struggled so hard to learnthe exposure triangle.
I, I'm not good at math at all.
Like not even close to math,math magician here.
So I listened to one of yourepisodes very early on.
and you guys were breaking downthe exposure shrink.
I was like, well, I got nothingelse to do.
Let's see if we can figure thisout.
So I listened to the podcast andI probably worked on it for half

(11:44):
a day, an entire day, and itfinally just clicked.
I was like, wait, this goesalong with this, which means if
I, if I change this one, I gotto change this one.
If I changed these two, I haveto change this one as well.
And that's how it all startedturning.

So, oh my gosh, I love that.
once again, I mean, You listento it, you took action.
And I can tell you that, by thestatistics, almost 10, 000
people a month download likethose first few episodes of the
podcast on the exposuretriangle.
But the amount of people again,who actually like get out and do
something to Is like supersmall.
so I love to not only hear thatfor one, you did go out and do

(12:18):
that, but then you continued tolike be in the group and
continued to like share yoursuccesses, with the photos that
you were taking.
so aside from, the questionsthat you were asking, was there
anything else that you weredoing in terms of, education?
Were you like getting books?
was it YouTube?
where did the growth come fromfor you?

So I tried to read the books on it, but I'm going
to tell you right now.
Boring.
I almost fell asleep in all ofthem.
And I know, I know you're thesame way as I am.
I think you talked about that acouple of times, but yeah, yeah.
So then I kind of, I startedpicking up YouTube, and of all
people, like Jared Polin hassome really good stuff.
like if you sign up for hisstuff, he's got like shooting a

(12:56):
low light and to go fromautomatic to manual, and I just
kind of picked up bits andpieces from, from that.
And then just also talking topeople, in like, you know,
photography podcast groups and,and all sorts of different,
Facebook groups and just askingquestions, and just really
trying to hone myself there.
and you talked about, how Ishared my successes.
The big thing is I, I try toshare my failures as well,

(13:18):
because if I'm failing atsomething, somebody else is also
going to fail at it.
And if they're not, then thegroup has been just amazing to
jump in and say, well, we've hadthat problem too, and here's how
we fixed it.
So when I tried it again, Iwould go back out and make these
little changes and make it alittle bit, a little bit better
the next time.

Well, I love that.
Let's talk about that more.
Did you have one failure thatlike you really learned a lot
from?

My first failure, I did a, um, maternity shoot for a
friend and I thought the photoswere pretty good.
Some of them, don't like, Istill use them all.
but there were a lot of like,composition failures and, and,
Kimberly Irish actually kind ofwalked me through a few of them.
And one of them was, sheexplained to me the doctor view
of a maternity shoot.
And I was like, Oh yeah, Itotally get that.

(14:05):
Now I know why I want to put thecamera right where I put it,
because, you know, That's not avery good view.
physically in that, that shoot,the very first shot that we set
up, I backed up into the lake.

And like, you walked it.
Oh my

gosh.
Yeah.
So that sucked.

That is a great way to start off shoot.
Right.
And then just tell them like,well, now we're going to be real
careful about this.
Oh

yeah.
And if anybody knows the waterin Lake Michigan around
Milwaukee, around the summerfestgrounds, like, you know, it's,
it's not good.
It's there's, there's no water.
And we wouldn't get into it, butit's, I smelled awful for a
little while.
So that was fun.

Did you ever get any, referrals from that
couple at all?

I did actually.
I did really despite the smellygarbage and that's hilarious.
Well, you know, I mean, I gavehim the best photos that I had.
I, you know, I didn't give himthe garbage.
So, and really it's, that's allthat matters.
So,

yeah, of course, of course.
That's hilarious.
Okay, so let's go ahead andstart talking about,
transitioning into what you gotnow, which is Charlie James
photo.
Can you tell me, about CharlieJames photo and like, what's the
mission that you got?
Because.

Yeah.
So, Charlie James photo isactually named after my son,
Charlie.
Again, main reason I'm stillshooting is because I want to
take those memories of my son,being young and just growing up.
the big thing that I've beentelling people right now, it's
kind of turned into my motto isturn your moments into memories.
and it's kind of, From yourslogan as well.

(15:30):
But I figured it's so good.
I use it myself.
Absolutely.

Yeah.

Make some tweaks off that.
So in Greendell, I've been kindof, talked about a lot as the
guy who doesn't just, take thephotos.
He actually like wants to, youknow, I want, I want to get to
know my clients.
I send them all questionnaires.
I talked to them.
I talked to him before theshoots and just kind of get to
know them that way a little bit.
and then even after.
the shoots, I still stay incontact with them even if they
don't want to book with meanymore.

(15:54):
So you know what?
Hey, we shared this momenttogether.
we're connected no matter whatnow.
and it, it makes for a bettersession.
It makes it more personable.

Tell me more about that.
Like where did you get theseideas to make your sessions,
more personable?

To be honest with you, I love people.
It may sound crazy, but Iactually like people.
I like just talking to people.
I like getting to know peopleand, get inside people's heads.
in my professional life, my nineto five, I am a fraud
investigator.
So I deal with some of the worstpeople that, uh, you could
probably ever imagine.
So getting to know people faceto face, just on a personal
level.
It's great for me.
It's a whole big, differentchange.

(16:27):
I love that part of the whole,um, the whole game.

I would imagine that most times at,
like, a session, people aren'tspecifically trying to lie to
you and deceive you like youwould at your normal job.
So it must be like this breathof fresh air, like, Oh, this is
fantastic.
And I'm getting paid to be hereand shoot.
This is awesome.

Exactly.
It's great.
Yeah.

So tell me how you plan to, like where you plan
to take Charlie James photo or Iguess, do you have a primary
focus with Charlie James photoor are you shooting a little bit
of everything right now?
How's that going for you?

So I've been shooting a little bit of
everything right now justbecause of the COVID lockdown.
I've been trying to keep myfamily safe and other people
safe as well.
We both have people who are highrisk in my family.
And on my side, my side, myside, I should say.
So I've been kind of, doing myown thing for a little while,
just shooting like a lot ofstreets.

(17:19):
I've been learning a lot of,shutter exposures, or I'm sorry,
long exposures, I should say.
So it's been a lot of fun.
I actually, met up with, with aguy who became a really good
friend of mine, who was aphotographer.
And he, he taught me how to dosome long exposure and he taught
me like the tricks of it and,how to set up for, for night
shots and, along the lake.
So that's been a lot of fun, butanyways, the, um, the main,

(17:40):
point of Charlie James is,family photography.
senior photos.
It's been really big for melately.
Something I love to do.
yeah, just kind of celebratingthe everyday with Charlie James
photo.

Celebrating the everyday, which are so now,
oh my gosh, I love that.
Celebrating the everyday withCharlie James photo.
You need a client to like, tellyou that, so that, that can be
like the testimonial on yourwebsite with like a giant campus
or something behind them.
Yeah.

I know.
And the worst part about thiswhole Covid thing is like I
couldn't get any kind oftestimonials lately because like
nobody's been wanting to shoot.
Yeah.
So I'm like, I'm usingtestimonials from like a year
and a half ago.
Yeah.
So I really need to get thatgoing.
But, I have some sessions bookedup, coming up in the next month
or two, so we should be allright.

Awesome.
Talk to me about, talk to meabout weddings.
Weddings isn't something that,that you want to do, right?

Oh my god, yeah I'll tell you right now, you and
Kim and Cara, you guys, you guysare tough, man.
Cause I could not handle awedding on my own.
There's no way I could do that.
Um, I, I shot a very small, likevery small four person wedding,
last year.
And I was nervous just for thatone.
It was just shooting portraits.

(18:45):
I was like if I screwed myselfup, they're gonna be pissed at
me.
Um, so to get like a six monthplan going on there is just no
way I could do that.

I think you could.
I don't think that you're givingyourself enough credit.
Uh, you know, let me let me let

me rephrase that.
I don't think I'd want to dothat because I don't want to
screw up somebody's big day.
Like my again, my My wife and I,we had, we had a very small
wedding.
Cause like, we're not like thebig to do people.
So like when other people do it,it's just, it's crazy to think
like this is what they'respending their money on.

Yeah.
Um, well, I forgot who said it,but so, you know, there's a
very, popular, phrase, I guess,or a sentiment in business that
like you, are not your idealclient, right?
Yeah.
So, me and my wife, I mean, wehad a small wedding as well.
It was actually in, it wassupposed to be an outdoor
wedding, but it rained.
So like last minute, it was kindof amazing.

(19:37):
Everybody came together and wefound, my, my wife's, Grandma,
was in the automotive union.
So like the, the union hall waslike, you can just have the
union home, like have yourwedding here and we're like,
okay, yeah, it's rainingoutside.
But yeah, I mean, it was not awedding that like, we didn't
even have a weddingphotographer.
Like we just hired like myfriend from California.

(19:57):
I was like, I paid for his planeticket to come out.
And now, like, I look at theweddings that, like, I go to,
and I think to myself, like, Ican't believe the people are
doing this.
Like, this is crazy.
But, I think when we canseparate ourselves from the
service that we deliver, itbecomes a whole lot easier to,
to do that, you know?
And to be able to, to deliverjust great stuff.
I don't know where I was goingwith that.
I guess that was just a storyabout my life.

And yeah, no, I, I completely agree with you.
Like you, you have to separateyour, your personal, thoughts
from the business.
Absolutely.
Yeah, I just, I don't know if Icould do that in that situation.
Like, so there, there's a reallygood wedding photography company
that did my friend's wedding andshe told me that she paid 15,
000 for it.
And I'm just like, that would beawesome to do.
I would love to charge that muchmoney, but man, that is a lot of

(20:43):
responsibility.
That's a lot of pressure to nailevery single shot.

True, true.
Yeah.
However, there is, there was astudy that went out above, like
for like the top 10 percent oflike CEOs, like the top 10% 10
highest earning CEOs in thecountry.
And it was an anonymous questionthat was asked, I'm just really
bad with remembering all these,uh, these facts right here.
But I think the question waslike, what's the one thing that

(21:07):
you're most scared of?
And remember, it's like highlevel, I mean, multi hundreds of
million dollars CEOs.
And then like the number oneanswer that came back from just
about all of them was, thatpeople would figure out that
they have no idea what they'redoing.
Exactly.
and I think that we all kind ofcan take something away from
that, when it comes tophotography, specifically
because, we're not, these greatsin the world, but we do have

(21:30):
something to say and everybodyhas our own, unique voice and,
yeah, we can create, somethingfor anybody, but this has turned
into me talking to you and I, Iapologize, but I, I do, that's
what we do.
It's cool.
I just, you know, I feel reallike comfortable around you and
like, it's fun to talk and wealways have like this banter and
especially about like, Dodgersand the Brewers.
So, I appreciate all that.

(21:50):
And again, there I go.
but let's, let's go back tophotography because one of the
main reasons that, that youwanted to get into photography
obviously was to capture anddocument, Milwaukee, but also,
once your son was born, todocument that process, can you
talk to me about the process ofdocumenting, your son's, growth
as a human?
Like, what are your views onthat?
How do you see taking photos of,of your son?

Yeah, I just, his just documenting that growth is
just amazing.
So the other day I was goingthrough photos and I was
looking, cause you get like yourInstagram photos where it says,
this is your photo from threeyears ago or two.
And I was like, Oh, that'sawesome.
You know, like my son was, wasnine pounds at that point.
And you look at him now, it'sjust like the way he's grown,

(22:32):
like he's, he's reading now andit's, it's wild to me at three
years old, he's reading, he'sgot his own imagination, and I'm
really happy as a dad that I, Igot to, um, not only witness
that myself, but also documentthe entire thing.
The one thing though, if I can,can put a regret in there, my
grandfather, when he was inWorld War II, he picked up a

(22:53):
camera and he documented theseamazing photos.
And like, still look at themevery once in a while, like when
I go to my parents house, justbecause like, it's through his
own eyes.
But when he died a few, maybeabout 10 years ago, we realized
we don't see many photos of, ofjust him.

And

I'm like, that's really weird, but it's because
he was behind the camera.
And now over the last threeyears, I'm looking at these
pictures of my son and I'm like,that's my son.
And that's awesome.
It's, it's great to see him, butI'm behind the camera.
So I don't get to see very muchof me with him in that
situation.
so that's kind of, kind of, longwinded there, but, yeah.
So what are you

going to do about that?

Pass my camera to my wife, let her document it for
a little while.
Um, yeah, no, I don't know.
Like it's, it's hard becauselike now he wants us to, he
wants to learn how to takepictures and every time I bring
up the camera, it's like, daddy,I want to push the button, push
the button.
I'm like, all right, cool.
Whatever.
So I got my, my Sony a seventhree out and he's just firing
away at the pictures and he'sjust happy.
I'm like, I can't say no tothis, you know?

(23:51):
So

yeah, of course.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a difficult thing, youknow, is to, to get those photos
with everybody together.
I've just kind of, you know, youknow, obviously it's, it's the
same, I think for everybodylistening.
and I've just kind of becomeokay with like, well, I guess
all the photos of me are justgoing to be like selfies, you
know, from my cell phone andthat's it.
So.

The worst angles to be remembered by at your
funeral.

But photos at your funeral, right?
Like we got to look at a biggerpicture here.
So, so who knows when it comesto a little bit.
Yeah.
So let's, let's go ahead andtalk about the present.
I guess.
So when it comes to those photosthat you're taking, of your son
and your family and, your life,I'm always interested to know,
like, what do you do with thosephotos?
Do they just live on yourcomputer?
Do you do something else withthem?

Right now they live on our, on our computer.
but we just bought a house, lastsix months or so.
so we're always planning agallery wall and, just building
that out.
We do have a yearbook from hisfirst year, where we print out
pictures every day, fromInstagram, and then we also,
print out pictures that we justremembered from the last, from
that, that, from that firstyear, just for memories.

Can I ask what happened in the second year?

We just didn't print them out.
so we, we still have them.
So we're, we're always talkingabout printing them out.
The problem is a lot of times,like when you're trying to print
out these bulk photos, 300, 500,whatever, a thousand of them, it
does get a bit expensive.
As parents of a three year oldmoney, it's not something that
comes very easy for us.
Yeah.
you know, you got, you got twokids, so you know exactly how it

(25:23):
is.
But yeah, no, it's, it'ssomething that's definitely on
our plan.
Like we always want to printthem out.
We always want to, um, be ableto show friends and family.
And even as you get older, justshow them like this used to be
you, you know?
And yeah, just look back onthose.
I think right now though, wekind of fell in the trap of,
well, it's on Instagram or it'son a Google photos.
It's going to pop up every yearwhich is nice, you know, look

(25:44):
back at, but I'd rather havesomething that's more physical
to touch.

Do you like the idea of the yearbook more
than, cause I really liked thatidea for the, uh, for the
gallery wall.
or would you do both?
What are your plans?

The plan is to do both, honestly.
Yeah.
So we painted our wall black,just to get ready for photos, to
make them pop a little bit moreand make it look better.
So yeah, it's, it's definitelycoming.
So once that happens, I'll haveto send you a picture, but it's
going to be awesome.

Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
I would love to see that.
I had a buddy in high school whopainted a wall, like chalkboard
in his room.
And I remember thinking like,that's the coolest thing I've
ever seen in my life, you know,cause you can just go in and now
everything that's going to be onthat wall is going to stand out.
And I can imagine that, yeah,those pictures are going to look
great.
That's going to be real cool.
That's going to be awesome.
What inspires you?

Great question.
Um, honestly, just, just beingable to create and make art on
its own.
I think that's really whatinspires me.
Years and years and years ago, Iused to play in the band and we
toured around the country for alittle bit and it was like my
creative outlet, but as you getolder, obviously, you know, you
don't make money playing musicin bands, playing at dive bars

(26:54):
once every couple of weeks.
So kind of lost that creativitythere.
And then once I started pickingup the camera again, the
creativity came back and it'sjust, it's a license to just
make art on your own.

So let me, let me rephrase the question.
Where, where do you, where doyou find inspiration?
Cause I love that answer, but Ithink I was going for something
a little bit deeper, where doyou find that inspiration from?

Where do I find my inspiration?
Ah, oh boy, One of the thingsI've taught myself with a camera
is that everything around youcan be something made into art.
If you're walking downtown orthrough an alley like, look at
it like you would through thelens of a camera and just try to
compose it like you normallywould.
I think that's going to help youto to really create more art

(27:37):
that way, I guess is the bestway to put that.

So now that you've been shooting for a few
years, do you find that you justget better at that over time?

I do.
I do.
So it's really not good.
Cause like, even like when I'mdriving, I'll see like a seat.
I'm like, Oh, that would beawesome with my camera.
But clearly I'm driving.
I can't, I can't take out mycamera right now, you know, or I
don't have my camera.
I'm going to work.

Yeah.

Um, like the, the craziest thing right now is,
when I go to work, when I go tothe office, I go north.
And from the freeway, you cansee the lake, you can see all
like the, the tall buildings.
and there's one spot where I'dlove to get a shot from, but
it's going to be kind ofdifficult to do that.
But you can see the sun comingup over the buildings of
Milwaukee and just outlines theentire skyline in just the sun.

(28:23):
It's really cool.
Wow.
Yeah.
But the problem is, the only wayyou can get that shot is being
on a freeway.

You got to have your wife drive.
You got to get ready.
You got to be in the passengerseat, camera ready, ready to go.
And then grab that shot.

That's it.
I think so.
You know what?
I'm going to tell her she's gotto take off work, to drive me to
work every day until we get thatone shot.
Yeah.
No kidding.
Yeah.

But that'll be the one that's going to be your
cover photo.
That's going to be your profilephoto and everything.
That's going to be on yourbusiness cards.
It's going to be everywhere.
That's awesome.

I love it.
It'll still get 30, 30 likes onInstagram.

After you boost it.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Again, I love seeing your growthin the group because looking at
some of your earliest photos, towhere you are today, I really
appreciate you being in thegroup.
You've shared a lot, you'vecontributed a lot.
and before this interview, Iwent to go look back at your
first post within the group and,you posted a photo where you

(29:17):
were just looking for somefeedback, but you said, this
group seems like the best at notbeing a holes.
For the sake of being a holes.
Yep.
Can you tell me what you meantby that?
about other groups?

Yeah, I don't want to name drop any other groups,
but there are some mean peopleout there.
Like if your photo isn't good,or if there's an issue with
their photo, they will rip youapart.
And for no reason at all, likepeople just want to be mean on
the internet and it's terrible.
So when I found this group, Ididn't post anything for like
maybe the first week or two.
I was like, no, I've been burnedbefore.
I don't want to, I don't want tofall for this again.

(29:52):
And I saw everybody and Iforgot, who was even there in
the very beginning.
But everyone was like, just sohappy about helping each other.
And everybody just wanted tobuild each other up.
And I was like, okay, I'm goingto get the courage and I'm going
to try this again.
So then I posted the photo andI, I'm pretty sure it was, the
Porsche that was, yeah.

(30:12):
Yeah, color selected.
Yeah.
And it wasn't a good photo, butpeople were like, yeah, you
know, it's not great, but here'swhat I would do to fix it.
And it's like, okay, well, that,that wasn't so bad.

So being in these other groups, I mean, this
is something that alwaysinterests me because, I mean,
I'm right there with you.
I like, I've been in othergroups, people are jerks.
And there's something about thebeginner photography podcast
community where like, you're notgoing to find that.
And I'd love to know, why do youthink that is?

It's just the culture that's built there.
I think it's between you and Kimas a moderator and just the
people who are there who want tohelp out.
Like you, you can definitely seeit, even like the new people.
They just want help.
And people want to help andthat's all it is.
Like we, I think we've done apretty good job at, at kicking
people out, who aren't there forthat.
And by, by good job, I mean,like, there's been one or two

(31:04):
people in the few years I'vebeen there.
It's just building that cultureof honesty and trust, that I
think helps out a lot.

How do you think that helps you as a
photographer?
If you didn't find the group andall of it, you had to go through
was in this groups of a holes,Where do you think your
photography would be today?

I would have quit.
Really?
I would have quit long ago.
Oh my god, yeah.
Yeah, because have confidence tobe a photographer.
Like, no matter what you'redoing, like, you're putting
something out there foreverybody to look at and for
everybody to say, hey, that'spretty good, or that's not good.
So you gotta have confidence.
And you have to have thick skin.
I think if I posted photosnonstop and it was just nonstop

(31:42):
beatdowns, I would've definitelyquit.
I've quit at many things in mylife and I'm glad this is one of
those things I did not

Oh my gosh, I get it.
In the beginning it's, that's ahard thing, is like, it feels
vulnerable to put your ownphotos, your own work, your own
art essentially out into theworld and to get tough criticism
is a very difficult thing.
But you know, once again, Idon't think that you're giving
yourself enough credit.
I think that you would havefigured out a way to, uh, to

(32:09):
make it work and to continue,especially, you know, with the
birth of your son and wanting tokeep taking photos that way.
So come on, let's be honest.
Would you have, would you havecontinued shooting?

Not the way I am now.
I wouldn't, I wouldn't probably.
I would have put my, my cameraon the shelf, let it collect
dust.
I would just grab the cell phoneand just take a picture of my
son.

Right.
Every birthday and, uh, holidayand yeah.
And

don't, don't get me wrong.
Like when I say that I have, Ihave probably about 30, 000
photos of my son on my, on myphone, just from that cell
phone, just because it's, it'sthere.
It's easy.
Um, and when you're trying tocapture your moments, like you
were, like we always say thebest camera that you own is the
one that you have.
Um, so especially if, if thephotos are just for you and your
family, who cares what they looklike?

(32:56):
They're for you.
Make them good.

Good.
Yeah, exactly.
So, now that you have thisexperience, right?
And you broke through thatbarrier of a holes and you
gained that confidence and youare where you are today.
Is there anything that you wishthat you would have known, or
learned sooner?

histogram.
Histogram.

I

wish, I wish I would have learned how to use
the histogram much sooner.
so when I moved to the A7 III,from the Canon T6, it was
because I wanted to be able tosee that live histogram, because
I know that you can't just relyon your, your light meter to
give you the correct exposure,your exposure is telling you,
I'm sorry, your exposure isbeing told by the histogram, and

(33:37):
it's something I kind of learnedmaybe a few weeks ago.
Months ago.
I'm still learning it.
But had it not been so afraid tolearn it Like I think I probably
would know but we I would havebeen a little bit better off
much sooner

How has it helped you in your shooting?
Like are you using it whenyou're shooting portraits or is
it out when you're doing morelandscape stuff?

I'm kind of both.
so I used to always just makesure that I had, the light meter
was directly at zero.
And now I'm kind of learninglike, hey, this side of the
histogram is your shadows.
This side is your highlights.
In the middle, that's your midtones.
And you want to make sure thatyou've got those right where you
want them to be.
And that's, that's going to beyour, your exposure.

So then let me ask with the A7 III, Is that
right?
873?
It was the 873.
You have a, it's an electronicviewfinder.
You see the exposure of theimage that, through the
viewfinder.
And then is there an overlaythat you see of the histogram,
laid on top of that?

Yeah.
There is.
Yeah, you can, you can overlayessentially anything that you
want to, to the viewfinder,which is great, which is one of
the main reasons I wanted to goto, a mirrorless with the EVF.
so yeah, you can look right downthe viewfinder and just see
anything you want to.
The histogram overlay is great.
It just kind of helps out thatway.

Tell me about that transition that you made
from the, the T6 to the EVF.
A7 3 because I mean, that's a,that's a massive jump.
What was that like for you?

it was like driving a cardboard box to work and then
hopping on a space shuttle withno, with no training.
I'm telling you, man, that themenu alone, it just.
It's insane.
Like the T6 had like threeoptions, essentially.
You're like, Oh, I can figurethis out.
You throw on the menu for the873.
And it's like, I you're speakingFrench and I only speak Spanish

(35:17):
and there's no way.

So overall, how's the experience been as far
as the growth of yourphotography?
Is there as much of a noticeablechange in your work as you are
hoping for?

Yeah, yeah.
So the last year or so I've beenshooting more low light, and
it's been a huge change for me.
So I got like the, the nifty 50,with the, uh, the a seven three
and what it does in low light,just for like a day.
Crappy lens.
It's insane.
Like you could take nice clearphotos.
It's got in body stabilization,so I can lower speed down.

(35:51):
Like one, I want to say likeone, one 20th or like one 100th.
And it's, it's still clear.
It's awesome.

So for anybody who's like thinking about
upgrading from, crop sensor to afull frame, is there anything
that you think that like maybethey should look out for?
Was there any, downsides toupgrading for you?

For me, no, not really.
I researched my purchases wellbefore, for several months.
And I was like, this is exactlywhat I need.
This is what I need to do.
I guess the biggest thing Iwould say is know what you're
looking for.
Like, don't just make the jumpbecause you feel like it's going
to make you better know what youwant.
I knew I wanted the EVF.
I knew I wanted a live view,with the histogram.
I knew that I wanted, better lowlight shooting.

(36:32):
So I knew exactly what I wanted.
If you're just saying like, Oh,I want to shoot full frame.
Why?
Learn your stuff first and thenmake that jump when the time is
ready.

You were on the T6, uh, for a while, right?
You had that camera for, forquite a while.
How long?

I had it for three, four years.
I want to say.

Oh, wow.
Yeah.
I mean, you really, I rememberlooking at some of your photos
and thinking to myself, it'stime for Jim to upgrade.
Like he's had this camera for,for quite a while.
And I'm glad.
I'm glad to make an upgrade to acamera that, that you're happy
with and, and seeing those, youknow, those photos that you're
putting out, especially, youknow, those, those ones of the,
uh, what's it called,lighthouse, with the waves
breaking and stuff that, ohyeah, absolutely beautiful with

(37:13):
a job, with a wife, with a kid,how do you make time for
photography?

Dude, I get up so early in the morning.
So, most of my work comes at4am.
I worked from 4am until I gotup.
Get my kid up for, uh, to hisgrandparent's house, which is
about six o'clock or so in themorning.
and then once my wife goes tobed around eight o'clock, I'm
usually up until 10 o'clock,1030, just plugging away, doing
whatever I can.

(37:39):
I think if you're reallypassionate about something, you
have to make time, no matterwhat you do, you actually have
to make time or else you'regonna lose that passion.

I love that.
Yeah.
So in those hours from like fourto six and from eight to ten or
so, is that the time whereyou're out shooting or is that
where you're doing things tolike build your business?

A little bit of both.
So the weekends I might get upearly for a sunrise session.
About 4 30 5 o'clock or so andgo out towards the beach or go
downtown, or just kind of shootwhatever I can there because as
you know, morning is, it'sreally some of the best light
morning and evening.
I don't get to shoot very muchevening right now because my kid
is still awake.
We're eating dinner.

(38:16):
And obviously he comes first, nomatter what happens.
and then, you know, when thingskind of settle down, I can do my
own thing.
but yeah, weekends.
Because man, I love, I lovegoing out and just shooting on
the beach, getting that sunrise.
We have a really cool setup herein Milwaukee where we can go
down to the beach, get sunriseshots over the city.
We can get, right over the lakecoming up.
It's probably some of myfavorite moments I, that I take

(38:37):
time for myself.

I love that.
Such a good feeling.
Tell me what the future holdsfor you in photography.
Where do you see yourself inphotography five years from now?

Honestly, as far as it'll take me.
don't know what's going tohappen.
I hope that I can make this afull time gig.
We'll see.
We'll see.
Um, unfortunately though, yougotta pay bills.
You gotta, make sure that thekid is okay.
You gotta make sure the food'son the table.
If I can do that withphotography, I'm 150 percent in.
Let's do it.
I think that's kind of what I'mworking towards.
There's no timetable for that.

(39:07):
If it happens tomorrow.
Great.
If it happens five years fromnow, that's fine too.

Yeah.
Well, I'll tell you, man, justagain, seeing your progress, you
keep plugging away at it everysingle day.
And I think what's, what's coolto see about you is that like,
where a lot of otherphotographers are posting, you
know, like, Hey, let's book asession or something like that.
You are posting things whereit's like, it's photos in your
community.
You're trying to build thatcommunity interaction.
You're trying to make yourselfknown in the community so that

(39:34):
when the time comes for that,ask It's going to be a whole lot
easier.
You're going to have that, thatno like and trust factor, you
know, that, that we talked aboutso much.

Yeah.
I believe that was Ray Williams.
It was her last name.
Wow.
Ray Whitney.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
If anybody wants to get into thebusiness photography, listen to
that podcast, she is amazing.
Like I had no clue as gettinginto, in that podcast, listened
to it a hundred times over.
That's such a great episode.

She's fantastic.
Did you have a, a major takeawayfrom that one?

Basically it's make yourself vulnerable.
So when she talked about,putting your pillars out for
everybody to see, like that hithuge because I work in a
corporate office and everybodysays, no, we got this, we got
this.
These pillars we gotta live upto we got this the standard and
I'm like, ah, this is corporatejargon And when I heard her say
it and when I heard her story,it's like wait a minute people
resonate with who you are Likeshe's a lady of God.

(40:29):
that's great Like I I may not bethat person but somebody else is
and they're gonna they're gonnaconnect with her on that I think
that's awesome.
Like she put herself out thereand again, you have to do that
in this business.

Yeah, it's such a personal business.
It's that honestly, I mean,that's, that's one of the
hardest things for me to do.
Like still to this day is, Ijust don't feel like a very.
public person.
I hate spending time on myphone.
really don't like spending timeon social media.
If I'm on Facebook, like I'm inthe group, because like, that's
the place where I want to be.
But you're right.
You're absolutely right.
Like, if you can do that, if youcan be open, if you can be

(41:04):
vulnerable, you're going to makeit in this person based,
industry that we're in.
That's so awesome.
So, I got one last question foryou here before I let you go.
And that is simply, what advicedo you have anybody, you know,
if today, if there's a new Jim,who's joining the group today,
and this is their first thingthat they're listening to,
what's just one piece of advicethat you would want to give to

(41:25):
any new photographer justgetting started in their
journey?

Any new photographer, the first thing
I'm going to tell you is, islisten, you're going to be
terrible first, but don't quit.
I'm telling you right now, just,just keep it moving.
Keep learning, make yourmistakes, fail a hundred times.
If you have to do not quit,because at the end of it, It's
so much better than you couldever imagine.
I never thought, never thoughtI'd be out shooting with

(41:50):
clients.
And when I get done with asession, it's the best session
I've ever had.

Every time, right?

Isn't

that

such a crazy feeling?
Every, every single time.
So, so one of the things thatalways sticks with me is, you're
always like, Oh, today they'regoing to find out I'm a fraud.
And I get that same feelingevery single time I go out
there.
But an hour later when thesession's done, I'm like, we're
best friends now like we'regonna do this again.
This is this is a great time.
Let's go get a drink You know,it's it's fun

And you know what that's gonna happen to you
forever.
I promise it is I hope

so.

I think it's Just a personality type thing,
you know I'm not sure why thatis because I've you know, I've
chatted with other photographersand they're like Like I've just
been doing this for so long likethis is how it works and you
know It's fine And then otherphotographers are like I've been
doing it twice as long as thatother person and I still feel
butterflies every time beforeYeah, and so I oh, yeah, I
totally get that Hopefully we'llfigure out one day how to get

(42:44):
over that that hurdle because Ireally think that is something
that holds a lot ofPhotographer's back is that
fear, of, of going out andhaving to make friends and hope
that somebody likes you and, youknow, then be able to create
something for them.
You

know what I mean?
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
So it's crazy because like, whenwe think about, putting
ourselves out there, like what'sthe first thing that people
always do, it's, it's, they wantto get into a photography
community and show off the workto tell their other
photographers.
And I learned pretty quickly,like why they're not paying
anything.
Like they're not paying ourbills.

(43:20):
They're not booking us.
Go into your Facebookcommunities.
Like go to Chicago mom groups orMilwaukee, father, son groups
and post your stuff there.
Like make people sick of yourwork.
So that way at some point theywere like, Oh, Hey, I want to
get, I want to get a photo takenwith my son or, I want to
remember this day with mydaughter.
This guy posts photos all thetime.

(43:41):
Let's talk to him.
You know, I'm telling you nowthat's where I get 90 percent of
my bookings.
It's just something like that.
It's free.
It costs you nothing.
And it's great.
I love doing

that.
But people don't want to put inthe work.
Like that's the thing, you know,you put in the work, you're
going to win.
You're gonna win.

again, it's that YouTube generation.
They see a 30 second clip onYouTube and they're like, well
this guy can do it, I can do it.
They don't want to do the work.
They don't know what happensbeyond that.

Yeah.
It's tough stuff, man.
It's tough stuff.
But again, I'm glad that you're,you're sticking with it.
Oh, I didn't even ask you wherepeople can find you online.
Jim, if people are listeningright now and they want to learn
more about you, where can theyfind you online?

You can find me at charliejamesphoto.
com, that's my official website,

All right.
It is action item time.
This week's photography actionitem, meaning the one thing that
if you implement it into yourphotography, you will move the
needle forward in your journeyas a photographer is this
identify and share a recentfailure.
Yeah, this may be one of themost difficult action items that

(44:48):
I've shared, which means wellthat it's probably gonna be one
of the most impactful to yourjourney as well.
Here's what I want you to do.
I want you to go through yourLightroom catalog and find a
recent photo of yours that maybedidn't live up to what you
intended it to be.
Then just take a moment or twoto jot down your thoughts on why
you don't think it worked andwhat it was exactly that you
wanted, and then share thatphoto and the lesson that you

(45:12):
learned in the BeginnerPhotography podcast community,
which again, you can join byheading over to beginner photo
pod.com/group.
That's beginner photopod.com/group.
Don't worry, it is the safestplace on the internet for new
photographers like yourself justtrying to learn and grow.
Nobody's gonna come at you witha flamethrower or nothing like

(45:33):
that, but I think that when youshare your photo.
I think that you're gonna besurprised at how many other
photographers have experienced asimilar situation.
And for those who haven'texperienced that situation well,
suddenly you become the guidefor them to navigate their
situation if they face it in thefuture.

(45:54):
Let's make sharing your failureswith others a normal thing,
because not only does itdocument how you've grown as a
photographer, but it also helpsthose who will come after you.
There you go.
Okay.
That is it for this week.
Until next week.
Remember, the more that youshoot today, the better of a
photographer you will betomorrow.
Talk soon.

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