How Thoughtful Details Win Photography Clients for Life with Allie Siarto

#567 Allie Siarto is a wedding and lifestyle photographer based in East Lansing, Michigan, and host of the Photo Field Notes podcast. The episode is a deep dive into the importance of creating a world-class experience for portrait clients, a factor Allie emphasizes as crucial for building client loyalty and generating referrals in the photography business. Through engaging stories and clear advice, Allie illustrates how exceptional service, thoughtful preparation, and emotional connections often outweigh technical perfection in client satisfaction.

KEY TOPICS COVERED

1. The Power of Client Experience Over Technical Perfection - Allie explains that while technical skill is important, the client’s emotional experience during the shoot has a greater impact on their satisfaction. Providing guidance, being prepared, and making clients comfortable often leads to higher perceived value and greater word-of-mouth referrals.
2. Practical Steps for Improving Client Experience - Major points include communicating proactively (e.g., style guides, prep emails), planning for logistics (like family lists and timeline management), dressing professionally, and using prompts to create genuine moments. Real-world examples such as helping clients find venues or ensuring parents feel included underscore how small efforts make a big difference.
3. Continuous Learning and Reflection - Allie shares her own learning curve, including mistakes (like not asking parents if they wanted more photos), and details how she implements those lessons to continually improve. The importance of treating early years in business as an extension of education is highlighted, encouraging listeners to seek feedback and view setbacks as opportunities.

IMPORTANT DEFINITIONS & CONCEPTS

• Client Experience: The cumulative impressions and feelings that clients have throughout their interactions with a photographer, from initial inquiry to final image delivery. Ensuring a positive client experience can be a greater predictor of success and referrals than technical image quality alone.
• Unposed Posing: A posing style that uses prompts and interactive questions to evoke natural expressions and genuine emotion, rather than traditional, static posing. This approach helps even uncomfortable clients relax, leading to more authentic and memorable images.

DISCUSSION & REFLECTION QUESTIONS

1. How do you currently manage the experience of your clients before, during, and after a shoot? What areas can you improve based on Allie’s advice?
2. Think about a time you had a remarkable or disappointing service experience (outside of photography). What specific factors made the difference, and how can you apply those lessons to your photography business?

RESOURCES:
Visit Allie Siarto's Website - http://alliesiarto.com/
Follow Allie Siarto on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/alliesiarto/

Learn What Camera Settings to Use in our free guide!
https://perfectcamerasettings.com/

Sign up for your free CloudSpot Account today at www.DeliverPhotos.com

Connect with Raymond!

• Join the free Beginner Photography Podcast Community at https://beginnerphotopod.com/group
• Get your Photo Questions Answered on the show - https://beginnerphotopod.com/qa
• Grab your free camera setting cheatsheet - https://perfectcamerasettings.com/

Thanks for listening & keep shooting!

Episode Transcript

Allie Siarto (00:00):
Even if you are the most amazing photographer in
the world and you take the mostbeautiful photo in the world and
it could win awards but youshowed up late to that photo
shoot and you made the clientfeel awkward and in your posing
they were like this doesn't feelnatural.
Someone else might think that'sbeautiful but that client's not
gonna like that photo nearly asmuch as if you were super
responsive, prepared them aheadof time, made them laugh, had a

(00:20):
great time, and related to them.

Raymond Hatfield (00:24):
Hey, welcome to the Beginner Photography
Podcast.
I'm your host Raymond Hatfield,and each week I interview one of
the world's most interestingphotographers to learn what it
really takes to capturebeautiful images so that you can
start to do the same.
In today's rewind episode, we'rechatting with portrait
photographer Ali Cido about howcreating a world-class
experience for your portraitclients we will keep them coming

(00:45):
back year after year.
But first, the BeginnerPhotography Podcast is brought
to you by Cloud Spot.
Sell your photos through prints,products, and of course
digitals.
You can set up a storefront inminutes and start earning more
with every gallery you send.
So grab your free foreveraccount [e-mail]
and only upgrade when you areready.

(01:07):
So today's interview with AliCDO is one that really helped me
personally, to have a betterunderstanding of the process
that I was putting my clientsthrough.
We have this idea that ourphotos should speak for
themselves, and I mean, thatwould be nice, but the truth is,
is that they usually dumped.
And that's not like a, a knockon you or anything, it's just
that most non photographers arenot as, visually literate as we

(01:30):
are, and therefore they needmore than just the images.
They need to feel like they'rebeing taken care of.
They need to feel supported.
They need to be given anexperience.
And you've heard me say thatphotography is a service and not
a product, and it's true.
Well today, Ali is gonna walkyou through how to deliver an
amazing service throughexperience and what it did for

(01:53):
those who she photographed.
So with that, let's go ahead andget on into today's interview.
Today's guest is Allie Ciarto, awedding and lifestyle
photographer currently in EastLansing, Michigan.
She is also the host of thePhoto Field Notes podcast, where
she focuses on business growthby interviewing other successful
photographers.
Allie, thank you so much forcoming on the podcast.

Allie Siarto (02:14):
Thank you, Raymond, for having me today.

Raymond Hatfield (02:16):
Sure.
I mentioned earlier in the introthat you're currently in
Michigan, but you have thisbeautiful video on your website
that adds so much personality toyou and your family.
But can you let the listenerswho haven't watched the video,
let them know, where you camebefore and how you got into
photography?

Allie Siarto (02:33):
Yes.
Oh, gosh.
Yeah.
So in terms of like locationwise, I've been kind of all over
the place.
So actually I'm from Michigan,born and raised in Michigan and
went to Michigan StateUniversity, graduated from
Michigan State and with a degreein advertising and was at the
time it was calledtelecommunications.
So, like digital media, whichjust barely touched on
photography, like three pointlighting, basic stuff, but it

(02:54):
was not what I had in mind.
I actually wanted to go work fora big advertising agency.
And so when I graduated, my bigplan was to move to New York
city and work for a big adagency.
And my.
Like last few months of mysenior year, I started dating my
now husband and he was actuallyin the master's program at
Michigan state and would be foranother year.
So I was like, ah, New Yorksounds a little bit far away,

(03:16):
but Chicago, you know, it's fourhours from where I am.
So I ended up working for acompany in Chicago, working in
like the digital PR departmentthere.
And while I was there, there'slike so many winding stories.
So again, photography was like.
Not a thing that I wanted to do.
So I was working in this reallyentry level job living in

(03:37):
Chicago.
I had like no money whatsoever,had no life beyond my job.
And one day I was just like, Ineed a creative outlet.
Like I need a community outsideof work.
And so I found this, class atthe Chicago photography center,
which was a nonprofit and it'sdoesn't exist anymore, which
just really breaks my heartbecause it was the greatest
organization.
And so basically they're like bythis exact camera, everybody buy

(04:00):
like a Nikon D 90.
That was where they started.
Cause it was an affordable entrylevel camera that like let us
all learn the basics.
Everybody buy a 50 millimeter 1.
8 lens.
Cause it's a good like startinglens.
So that's what I started with.
And I just.
And so we would just like wentto these in person classes twice
a week, we would go and we wouldlearn the basics and we would,
do assignments and we would havelab time and we could print out

(04:21):
our photos and be like, wow, andit all started in black and
white.
So we didn't even start withcolor we just learned the basics
and then I just, I think when Ireally love something I go all
in on it.
So I remember starting out, Iwould print out my photos for my
assignments and it would bethese specific assignments like,
take a picture showing motion ortake a picture within your block

(04:43):
that tells a story, whatever itwas.
And so I'd walk around Chicago,I'd take these pictures, I would
print them out, and then theywould end up in my cubicle, my
beautiful cubicle, decoratingthings.
And people would walk by andthey'd be like, oh cool, did you
take those?
And I'd be like, oh yes I did.
Before I knew it a couple peoplethey were about 500 people at

(05:03):
this company and a couple ofthem I can't even remember how
exactly I'd made that leap wherethey were like, well, hey, can I
hire you for photos?
And I was like sure you can payme like 80 bucks or a hundred
dollars And I remember pullingthat number

Raymond Hatfield (05:16):
out of the air.
I'm sure.
Yeah.
No,

Allie Siarto (05:17):
I I had a full time job I mean again, not that
I was making like Son of moneydoing it, but I was fine.
And, yeah, I remember going tolike photograph these people who
I worked with and being justterrified because one was like
my boss,

Raymond Hatfield (05:31):
I was like, Oh, no, I can't screw this up.

Allie Siarto (05:34):
And he knew, you know, so I just kind of slowly
got into it from there.
And then I actually, I continueddown the path of my career for
many years.
I started my own company in kindof like the PR digital space.
Market research space that I didfor many years and was actually
pretty well known in that space.
Like that was considered mysuccess.
And so I felt like leaving thatbehind was going to be a

(05:54):
failure.
Like if that was success, thenleaving it would be failure.
So basically running in tandem,I was running this other company
and growing this company andreally focused on that.
And then photography was alwaysmy, I always call it my alter
ego on the weekend where I wouldgo.
So I called up a photographerand I said, I like looked on the
not.
And I think I looked at thefirst person who came up in the

(06:16):
featured listing and I calledhim and I was like, Hey, can I
be your assistant?
And he actually said like, yeah,come on in and we'll talk.
So I went in and, I didbasically, I did a trial, like a
free, like an audition.
So I went to a wedding.
I was, I was just carrying bagsfor him and taking some photos.
And then he hired me on, he paidme like a hundred dollars per
wedding to help out and in a lotof like assisting with carrying

(06:39):
bags.
That was my main job.
I was actually hired as anemployee so I could use his
lighting.
So he would give me lightinggear and taught me lighting.
And he would sit down with meafter every wedding and help me
like go through my photos andteach me what I needed to know.
And that was huge.
That was so helpful.
I didn't even realize how Great.
That was at the time that no onegets that.
I was like, yeah, you know, I'mnot getting paid a ton, but the

(06:59):
experience was everything.
So I remember someone when I wasin college saying treat your
first few years out of collegeas just a continuation of your
education, just treat it likeyou are, you're still learning.
Don't get stuck in the muckwhere you're like, Oh, I'm not
making enough money or, oryou're feeling like you're not
moving fast enough.
Just if you have the mentalitythat that is a time to learn,

(07:22):
then It can be a much morepositive experience.
So I think I took it that wayand I really got a lot out of
it.

Raymond Hatfield (07:28):
I mean, that's a great mindset to have for
sure.
Like you said, there's a lot ofpeople coming out of college,
assuming like now I know allthis stuff, I have a lot of
debt.
I have to be making a lot ofmoney, but going the route you
did sounds way more fulfilling,especially later on down the
road.

Allie Siarto (07:41):
And we don't know everything coming up, whether
you go to college or not.
Like, come on, we don't know.
So it's good to take the timeand like, appreciate that you
can learn from others.
so anyway, so let's see, I'lltry not to make the story too
long.
So I ended up after I gotmarried, I moved back to
Michigan.
So I had worked for thatphotographer, learned a ton,
moved back to Michigan and stillwas running my other company and
I could run it from anywhere.

(08:02):
So we were like, let's go backto Michigan.
That's where our family is.
my sister had my nephew by then.
I felt like we were just too faraway.
So we got back to Michigan.
We kept the company going.
I was starting to grow thephotography company in Michigan.
And then we decided kind of likeon a whim to move to DC for
eight or nine months.
Just kind of like, you knowwhat, actually first, no, we

(08:22):
bought a house.
We bought a house and then wedecided to move.
So we had to like leave ourhouse, leave our cat.
We couldn't take our cat withus.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So really do

Raymond Hatfield (08:33):
jump into something when you got, when you
fall passionate about it, don'tyou?
It

Allie Siarto (08:36):
was truly like this, like split second
decision.
We were in DC and a friend wehad met.
Was like, Hey, let me show youthis place.
My friend who owns it is onlyhome once a month for one night
and he wants someone to rent itfor really cheap.
And we were like, we can't passthis deal up.
So we signed like a ninemonthly.
So we're just like, let's justtreat it like study abroad and
we're going to go and enjoy it.

(08:57):
So actually at that time, I haddecided that I was going to go
all in on my other company and Iactually took a year off of
photography and I thought it wasgoing to be done because I had
shot, I think 17 weddings theyear before while running the
company as an assistant.
No, it's myself.
Your own wedding?
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, once I was back.
This was a couple, it took acouple years back in Michigan.
I shot 17 weddings.

(09:17):
I was running the other companyand it just, something had to
give.
So I was like, I'm just going togive up photography.
I can't do everything.
I love it.
But like, that's, I was like,the money's not going to be
there.
The other place is where I'mgetting the money.
So whatever.
So yeah, I think I was stillkind of learning the business
side at that point.
So I thought I was gonna be doneforever.
I was in DC.
I was saying no to absolutelyeverything because I was in DC

(09:39):
and then one day somebody calledme and it was like the mother of
the bride and just kind of outof the blue, she's like, she was
so excited.
She was like, is this AllieCiardo?
And I was like, yeah, and shewas like, are you available for
my daughter's wedding on thisdate?
She loves you! And I was like,oh.
Well, then maybe yes, and shewas like, we'll take you.

(10:01):
And so she like got me kind ofback in the like excitement of
everything.
And so I took just two weddingsthat fall.
And then from there, I was like,Oh, I do really love this.
And so with all of that, mydaughter was born that later
that fall.
And just kind of evaluatingeverything.
I realized that I just, If I wasgoing to spend time doing

(10:22):
something, I wanted it to besomething that I loved.
And so photography won in theend.
And now I am a full timephotographer and I've built my
team from there.
And now I live back in thehouse, back in the house that we
bought.
We've been here for a while andyeah, I've continued to just
grow the business in Michigan.

Raymond Hatfield (10:38):
Wow.
Okay.
So that was quite a road towhere you are now.
That was

Allie Siarto (10:44):
a short story too.

Raymond Hatfield (10:46):
Okay.
Hold on.
Let me, let me break this apartreal quick.
Okay.
We'll start back when you firstcalled the other photographer to
assist him, right?
So at this point, how much hadyou learned from the school that
you were going to learningphotography?
Were you proficient in a cameraor was this still like going to
be additional education in termsof simple settings?

Allie Siarto (11:09):
I was about as proficient as an assistant can
be, but not enough to like shootmy own.
So I had taken basically thebeginner class, the like more
advanced class, and then I hadtaken a flash class, so I knew
how flash worked.
I understood the mechanics ofit, but I hadn't done off camera
lighting.
So he really taught meeverything with lighting in that
way.
I had never photographed awedding, so I, Oh no, that's not

(11:33):
true.
I had like kind of photographedmy friend's wedding that I was
in.
That was one of those, like, shewouldn't have otherwise had a
photographer.
So.
So like, but oh, you know,exactly what you would expect
them to be.

Raymond Hatfield (11:45):
Real quick, do you still have those photos
somewhere?

Allie Siarto (11:47):
I think I found a couple on Flicker recently.

Raymond Hatfield (11:50):
Oh, sweet

Allie Siarto (11:50):
And I was doing like the, like really texturized
editing.
Mm-Hmm.
and like lots of, lots of, ofediting Contrast

Raymond Hatfield (11:57):
and saturation.
Yeah.
Vignetting, I'm sure there's abit.
Yeah.

Allie Siarto (12:00):
As TP Vignetting, all that fun stuff.
So, I was like.
It basically where you wouldexpect an assistant and not yet
second shooter, but likeassistant who also can have the
camera.
So I was great for carryingbags, right?
And then if I got a great shot,great.
If I didn't, it didn't reallymatter.
Basically, at that point.

Raymond Hatfield (12:16):
Yeah, no, that makes sense.
So when you went into it, didyou think that you would be
learning more than just, thetechnicals of photography.
Were you looking forward toopening up your own photography
studio one day?
Or I'm just trying to get inthat mindset of, of why you
contacted this photographer.

Allie Siarto (12:33):
Yeah, I think I was.
I still, like I said at thispoint in my career, I had no
intention of doing it the fulltime, to become the only thing I
did.
I always thought that my othercompany was always going to be
the dominating company, butstill something just a

Raymond Hatfield (12:48):
creative outlet for you.

Allie Siarto (12:50):
Ah, it was a little bit more than that.

Raymond Hatfield (12:51):
Okay.

Allie Siarto (12:52):
No, it was something more than that.
I think it was that drive whereI was like, I want to be really
good at this.
I want to be able to have thatfulfilling feeling of taking
Amazing photos for someone fortheir wedding and I wanted it
was just so different I wasworking in corporate america
with these global companies andit was just so different to work
one on one with clients And Iloved it and I just got addicted

(13:14):
basically I was like I must domore and I didn't want to do
more and like do it kind of likehalfway I guess I just I really
wanted to be As good as I couldbe at it.

Raymond Hatfield (13:24):
Sure.
Sure.
No, I totally understand that asanother wedding photographer,
that's what I love most is thepersonal connection that you
have with somebody, the amountof time that you spend with them
to get to know them so that youcan.
Personalize, essentially, thephotos that you can deliver to
them to see their reaction asopposed to, I worked for a
public company before I startedworking in photography.

(13:44):
And it's like, whenever I didsomething that I was proud of,
it just kind of went into thewhite noise because I never saw
the end result of it.
So that's how I understand.

Allie Siarto (13:52):
Yeah, that's exactly how I felt at my other
company.
Like, It was just kind of like,there it was, nobody was really
appreciative, but to actuallyhave people like, cry or get so
excited and to really trulythank me was really fulfilling
and just like, creativelyfulfilling for me.

Raymond Hatfield (14:05):
For sure, for sure.
Okay, so, you met this newphotographer, you became, their
assistant, you started working,and you started shooting a
little bit, what are some thingsthat you learned that had
nothing to do with the cameraessentially in working just one
on one with a client.

Allie Siarto (14:20):
Yeah.
Well, everything about planningbasically realizing he was
really organized and he wouldhave a sheet that he would give
me before every wedding that hadThe family list already put
together and he'd have likethese circles and family trees
of who's who and I think I can'tremember if it was like symbols
or he would tell me if there wasan awkward relationship to be
aware of And the whole day wouldbe planned and you know Just

(14:42):
yeah the way he interacted andhe would tell me stories about
how like Oh, there was this onebridal party where he worked
with one bride and then thebridal party loved him.
And then they all hired himalong the way.
And that led to many otherweddings and how important that
was.
And he had a dress code.
I had to wear a very specificthing.
When I showed up, I had to lookvery professional.

(15:03):
The appearance really mattered.
These were really high endweddings in Chicago that we were
going to, just the way that youbehaved in front of clients,
everything about it.
That, you know, I had worked,like I said, I worked in
corporate America, so I knew howto conduct myself in front of
people.
I wasn't going to be aprofessional, but it's still
really different.
And kind of just balancing theparty aspect with the

(15:24):
professionalism and, Thelighting and just everything
happening at once, but thelogistics.
I think that if I had gone andphotographed a wedding on my
own, without having ever workedfor somebody else, I wouldn't
have had nearly the preparationto just know how the day was
going to go.
Like, okay, like typically, thisis after this, and then this
will happen.
These are the things to look outfor.

(15:45):
This is where things can gowrong.
Just everything that prepared meto be prepared.
Okay,

Raymond Hatfield (15:51):
so now, obviously, you do still want to
be professional.
First of all, it's still goingto my mind how crazy it is that
this guy shooting very high endweddings in Chicago was like, on
a whim, Oh yeah, you've nevershot a wedding?
Come on! Like, let's come in.

Allie Siarto (16:03):
Well, like I said, it was because he had a very
strategic plan.
Approach to it and actually Ifeel bad because I ended up
leaving Chicago after that andAndre I'm, really sorry if you
ever listen to this I'm, sorrythat I left but he had and i'm
now in this mindset So he wantedme to start out as an assistant
and he wanted to train me fromthe ground up So what he did was
he would train people From theearly early stages if you saw

(16:25):
something in them where he knewthat he could He wouldn't have a
lot of risk because I was thethird shooter.
I wasn't even the secondshooter.
I was like the third shooter.
So there wasn't a lot of risk.
He wanted to train me from theground up to then become his
second shooter, to then becomelike, let's say like an
associate photographer, it waswithin a bigger company and now
I'm taking on that mindset.
So just yesterday I talked tosomebody who is a student.

(16:47):
Student photography student.
To be quite honest, I have neverseen her work before.
I've never seen a single photoshe's taken.
But I'm gonna hire her to be anassistant to help with bags and
you know, pay her to come alongand help.
And then if she wants to takesome photos, she can take some
photos.
I'll give her some feedback.
And ideally,'cause I know her asa person and that was what
mattered more was personalitylike I wanted someone with the

(17:07):
right personality, of

Raymond Hatfield (17:08):
course.

Allie Siarto (17:08):
And then I assume she's got some skills and I can
train the rest into her if she'sinterested.
So then I can get her to thepoint where she's interested in
the other pieces if she wants tobecome a second photographer and
then potentially an associatephotographer.
So I like the mindset of beingable to bring somebody in from
the beginning and I think that'sthat is what he does.
And then, sadly I left and Ikind of wasted his time.

(17:28):
So I do feel bad about that, butI didn't plan to move.
I thought I'd be in Chicago forthe whole time and work my way
through the company.
It just didn't work out thatway.

Raymond Hatfield (17:36):
Well, I mean, that's life you've been bouncing
around a lot, obviously.
So trying to find the spot whereyou feel most comfortable and
here you are now.
So it's very important.
I want to hear a little bitabout the first time you booked
your own.
First wedding.
How did that come about?
Did you have a website at thispoint?
Was it I mean like you said youhad the friend whose wedding you

(17:56):
were in and if you didn't shootIt then they just weren't gonna
have any photos.
I want to hear a little bitabout The first pain paying
client that you had.

Allie Siarto (18:05):
I think I maybe had just launched a website It
was really basic thinking thatall down the road.
I would start to try to marketmyself You And I was at a
barbecue with a friend.
And so I, so she was Mormon andhad a bunch of Mormon friends
who were getting like in thatage of getting married.
And she had a friend who I nevermet before, who was at the

(18:27):
barbecue.
And so we're at this likedowntown rooftop barbecue and.
She was just like, oh, I'mgetting married and we're just
chatting.
Oh, I'm getting married in threeweeks.
I don't have a photographer yetIt's kind of like we're kind of
putting it together quickly andI was like, well, I'm a
photographer Like I just kind oflike threw it out there like
whatever let's do it and one ofthe things with that As I was

(18:49):
taking these photos, I did nothave the rights to any of my
photos.
I could not use them in myportfolio.
So I don't even remember what Ishowed her.
Maybe like the other wedding ormy photography assignments.
I cannot remember.
I don't know.
No, I had done some portraits atthat point.
So I would have shown her theportraits and I was very honest
with her.
This is my first wedding bymyself besides like the friend
one.

(19:09):
And I have worked with, but I'veworked on these big weddings
where I was doing a lot ofshooting.
I do feel confident.
I know my lighting.
And I charged her 500 like weall do right on our first
wedding and it was like Yeah,two or three weeks later, and
here's the best part.
So it was a Mormon wedding, so Iwasn't even allowed to go into
the Mormon temple.
Yeah.
So, but she had converted, sothey had like another ceremony

(19:31):
later because their friends andfamily couldn't either, so it
was fine.
So I didn't, I showed up at like8 a.
m.
They came out, they weremarried.
We took pictures in like thisfull sun.
I dragged my husband along to bemy assistant.
And I remember being like, Iknow you don't want to take
photos in full sun, like, I knowyou have to diffuse it.
So Jeff, you're going to holdmy, reflector, like, just as
we're going to take the thingoff and hold it up above.

(19:53):
And we're going to try to getthem in the shadow, and then I'm
going to try to just get themthere, and it's going to be
great.
And it was like And?
Not great, but it was fine.
I mean, it was better than fullsun.
I knew the basics of what I wasdoing.
I thought I, I actually think Idid a pretty good job overall.
Like I knew that they didn'twant to be in full sun, created
shade for them.

(20:13):
It just wasn't very big shade.
and then I did know, like I knewhow to use my lighting.
I had my flash and my umbrella.
It was a big dark room like younever could have done it without
lighting.
So I was like, oh this You know,I was pretty proud of my
lighting, but I did not bringenough batteries So i'm sitting
here charging batteries on mylike quick charger in the middle

(20:33):
of dinner I didn't know to askto be fed So they have this
amazing spread of food that wetotally could have had some and
jeff's like ali i'm starving AndI was like, I don't think we can
eat it because I didn't ask AllI had to do was ask and I'm sure
she like ahead of time obviouslyand I'm sure it would have been
like now I put it in mycontract.

(20:54):
Everybody feeds me But I didn'tknow and I was starving and Jeff
was like, I'm never doing thisagain if you don't feed me But
from that, you know, so I gotjust enough photos from that
event It was actually it turnedout to be a really amazing venue
like a great venue in Chicagoand they had gotten a deal on it
I think because they had theirwedding.
It was like an afternoon weddingand So I had work from this

(21:16):
great venue.
I had, I remember like this oneparticular ring photo that I
took that was really cool.
And like that ring photo alone,I was like, this makes me a
professional.
And then I like used that tobook other clients.
So after that, once I had my ownportfolio work, I then actually
pretty quickly after that, I putan ad up on the knot and I
think.

(21:37):
Later that fall, I knew I wasgoing to be moving to Michigan,
so I paid for an ad in Chicagoand in Michigan and booked my
first couple weddings in bothplaces.
Oh, wow.
So when I moved to Michigan, Iactually kind of came back and
forth, or maybe I knew I wouldeventually, whatever it was, I
ended up in getting a coupleweddings in both places, and
went back to Chicago a couple oftimes, did a couple weddings
there and, just kind of likeslow grow from there.

Raymond Hatfield (21:58):
So obviously, like, you started advertising on
The Knot in both Michigan andChicago, which blows my mind.
That's insane to be in bothplaces.
But, now that you have shot afew weddings, what sorts of
things are you doing, for theseclients, in order to help I
guess gain referrals because weall know how important referrals
are.

Allie Siarto (22:19):
Yeah.
okay.
So I think it took me a while toreally get there where I was
creating the full experience,but I want to tell you a story
that's going to seem unrelatedand then you'll see how it's
related.
I'm

Raymond Hatfield (22:28):
excited.

Allie Siarto (22:29):
Okay.
So, this is actually a storyabout my mom, so it has nothing
to do with photography, but it'sgoing to illustrate to you like
why you'll get it when I tellit.
So, So hanging with me here.
So my mom went out to, the WestCoast with her sister and her
mom to visit family and theywent wine tasting.
So while they were wine tasting,they went to this vineyard and

(22:50):
they were given this glass ofwine and they said, Oh, go out
on the hill and enjoy thebeautiful setting and just enjoy
the wine.
So they're sitting on thisamazing hill.
Looking over this gorgeoussetting under this tree in the
perfect sunny weather.
And they're with amazingcompany.
They're having the best time.
And my mom is drinking thiswine.
And she says, this is the bestwine I've ever tasted.
This is so good.

(23:10):
So she goes back in and shesays.
I've got to buy some wine.
I have to bring this home soeverybody can experience how
amazing this wine is.
And so she buys it and she goesthrough the hassle of packaging
it up and taking it home and,getting it there.
So a couple months later, my momand my dad host a wine tasting
party and it's not just a winetasting party.
It's a blind wine tasting party.
So they put all the wines inlike paper bags so that nobody

(23:33):
can tell what brand it is sothat you're not influenced by
knowing the brand or, or likethe pretty label or anything.
It's just like totally based ontaste.
So they pour the wine.
Everybody ranks the wine.
They decide what tastes thebest, purely on taste.
They rank them one throughwhatever.
How about 10?
I don't, I don't know how muchwine they're drinking.
I guess that's

Raymond Hatfield (23:49):
a

Allie Siarto (23:49):
lot.
So at the end of the day, everysingle person, including my mom,
ranked that wine dead last, hesaid it was awful.
And she was like, I don't, itwas crazy because when I was
sitting on this beautiful hill,sitting with amazing company in
a beautiful setting, and underthe sunlight with a beautiful

(24:10):
view.
It tasted amazing.
And when I was just tasting thatwine back at home with nothing,
no other contacts, it was awful.
Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield (24:18):
Yeah.

Allie Siarto (24:20):
How does that apply to our clients?
So another story I'll tell youjust kind of.
also relating it back tophotography.
So I had a session in December,it was an extended family
session and we planned it aheadof time knowing it was going to
be cold and still planning to doit outside.
And I figured, okay, we'll getthat like really pretty light.
Everybody will be bundled up,but like cute and styled and

(24:40):
we'll have mittens and hats andit'll be really cute.
And then the contact personemailed me and was like, listen,
we just don't want to do itoutside.
It's going to be like, we'regoing to have younger kids.
So we just.
We don't want to

Raymond Hatfield (24:52):
yeah,

Allie Siarto (24:53):
and she was like, can you give me recommendations
on where to do it inside?
And I don't have a studio.
I used to have a small studio,but now I actually just starting
this week.
i'm meeting clients out of a anevent stylist office.
So it's not a studio It's likean office, but I don't have a
shooting space So I immediatelywas like, oh, it's not really
what I do.
Like I can do it because I I dothat for weddings It's not

(25:15):
really what I do.
So I went on our local group andI was like, does anybody want
You I know I already have thecontract, but I'd rather give
her someone who has the studioand is totally set up for it.
Nobody wanted it.
It was like 18 people inside.
Nobody wanted it.
So I went back to her and I waslike, okay.
I'm going to call some places.
So I called actually likewedding venues that I had worked

(25:35):
with.
It was a Monday afternoon.
So I said, can we rent it for anhour?
I gave her three differentoptions and she, and I said,
this one's going to be kind ofdarker.
You know, that is what it is.
This one's brighter.
I, you know, you could do thisone, this one, this one.
And she actually picked kind ofthe darker

Raymond Hatfield (25:49):
one.

Allie Siarto (25:50):
So on the day of the photos, I had to, it was a
really dark day and there waslike very little natural light.
It was kind of like brick anddark.
Okay.
Not really the normal style thatyou would see on my website.
I had to light everything.
So it was like off cameralighting.
So it was like technically fine,but it wasn't, it wasn't like
the kind of photo that you wouldlook at and be like blown away
because it has this beautifullight coming in and amazing.

(26:11):
And even my husband looked atthem and he was like, yeah, it's
not like your typical style.
It's not something you wouldnormally put in your portfolio
because it's just not yournormal style.
And so then I was like, Oh, arethey going to hate on what are
they going to do?
And I sent them to them.
So they were all in from allover the country.
And I sent them, I do, I don't,I used to do in person sales.
Now I have this kind of like notin person sales model where they

(26:32):
have an ordering session, butit's virtual.
And so I sent them, they wereall together on Christmas Eve,
so I got them done within likefive days, sent them over, and I
heard nothing, and I was like,oh my god, they hated them.

Raymond Hatfield (26:44):
Oh, that's the worst.

Allie Siarto (26:45):
But then, just, I think literally just yesterday,
I heard back from the pointperson, and she said, She's
like, I'm so sorry.
The holidays were so crazy.
We were all together.
And now we're all like spreadout across the country again.
And I just wanted you to knowthat we absolutely love the
photos and my mom cried and wewant to make sure we still have
time to order prints because wereally love them.
Oh wow.

(27:06):
so, so what this goes back to isthat if a stranger saw those
photos, they would not be blownaway.
They were just like fine.
Like They were a family in afairly dark space with light off
camera lighting coming in.
It wasn't anything I would enterto win an award.
But to that family, they sawmore than just the photo.
It was the wine on the hillexperience for them.

(27:26):
So they remembered that a, Ihelped them find a space and B,
I, prepared them.
I gave them a style guide tohelp them with what to wear.
They all came dressed reallycute.
I gave them ideas for what to dowith the photos on the day of
the photo shoot.
They're all in from all over thecountry.
So they're remembering thisgreat experience of being
together.
And instead of just having themsmile the whole time and feel

(27:47):
awkward, I interacted with them.
I tried to remember everybody'sname.
I used prompts, interactiveprompts, where they were all
laughing so hard.
And like, even at the end, theywere hugging me and saying, this
was so much fun.
Like

Raymond Hatfield (27:58):
these

Allie Siarto (27:59):
prompts were such a blast.
And so they left, even beforethey saw the photos, they knew
they were going to love thembecause the photos, no matter
what they were, were going to bea memory of a really great time.
And so when they saw them and,oh, and then I also, they saw
them as a slideshow.
So it's to music and it's moreemotional instead of just
sending them as.
A like a

Raymond Hatfield (28:18):
gallery?
Yeah.
A

Allie Siarto (28:19):
link.
Yeah.

Raymond Hatfield (28:20):
Mm-Hmm.

Allie Siarto (28:20):
So the whole experience was there from
beginning to end, from like theway they interacted with me from
the first day to the very end.
So again, it's that like wine onthe hill experience, it's more
than just a photo.
It's more, to them, it has moremeaning, it tastes better
because of the full experience.
And so in the end, they lovedthe photos Because of that full
experience.
And so you have to remember thatyes to it.

(28:41):
Yes.
You have to know your technicalability.
You have to be able to take agood photo, but once you get to
the point where you know, yourtechnical basics, you can take a
good technically sound photo.
You can edit, you have, whateverstyle you need to, instead of
then focusing on like, Whatother preset can I do?
Or what other crazy thing I cando?
Like, that's fine, but you needto first nail down the whole

(29:03):
experience.
You need to make sure that youcan pose people in a way that
feels really fun and natural, sothat they're leaving like, that
was actually really fun insteadof like, oh, I feel awkward.
Because even if you are the mostamazing photographer in the
world and you take the mostbeautiful photo in the world and
it could win awards But youshowed up late to that photo
shoot and you made the clientfeel awkward and in your posing

(29:24):
They were like this doesn't feelnatural someone else might think
that's beautiful But thatclient's not gonna like that
photo nearly as much as if youwere super responsive prepared
them ahead of time made themlaugh had a great time and
related to them all these thingsthat you have to do so you have
to remember that It is humannature.
Like I teach a consumer behaviorclass now at Michigan State and
it is truly like that isactually how the human mind

(29:46):
works.
We think that we're gradingsomething, judging something
just based on like the purevalues of that product, but
we're actually much moreinfluenced by all those other
external factors than we are bythe actual product.
So it is human nature.
People are going to like a photoway more based on the full
experience than based on thephoto itself.

Raymond Hatfield (30:02):
I totally believe that.
Even in my own experience as aphotographer, I've been to
shoots where say the couple,they just weren't meshing with
me as well as I had hoped.
However, they were very,friendly in front of the camera
and they looked great.
And when I look back to sharethose photos, I think like, Hmm,
this one wasn't so good.
You know, this one wasn't mybest set of photos, but whenever

(30:22):
I share them, they always seemto get, the most amount of
interactions or, praise frompeople.
But I think that it's becauseit's not a bad photo.
It's simply because I didn'tconnect with the couple as well
as I could have with othercouples, I suppose.
Right.
Yeah, and they might feel thattoo.

Allie Siarto (30:38):
Yeah, yeah, so it's different.
You still need to have, youknow, Photos that are beautiful
for the outside world becausethey weren't there.
They don't have that experiencein that context to go with it.
But for the couple themselves,if you want them to like sing
your praises from the rooftopsand love that photo and share
that photo and print that photoand put it in their home, they
have to have an emotionalconnection to it.
Like everything in my house,even if it's an imperfect photo,

(31:00):
I have very imperfect photosframed in my house, but the
moment was real and that's whatmattered.

Raymond Hatfield (31:06):
So that's so yeah So what could you say to or
I guess let's put you back inthe situation obviously that
family had a bit of a scenariowhere they needed to change the
venue, you needed to find a newplace for them.
You went out of your way to tryto find somebody to help
accommodate them.
You couldn't.
So you took it upon yourself tofind a venue to get them photos
that they would be morecomfortable in, especially with

(31:28):
young kids, not wanting to beout in the cold.
If that obviously shows that youwent above and beyond to deliver
a great client experience.
Let's say that doesn't happen.
You go out and a couple says wewant to do it outdoors.
You go outdoors.
Everything is smooth sailing.
How do you still ensure thatyou, deliver a great client
experience?

Allie Siarto (31:48):
There's still an experience from the beginning to
the end.
So from the time that they cometo my website, the experience
begins, and that's where I'mgiving them tips from the
beginning.
A lot of my clients actuallycome from reading articles or
tips that they found wherethey're like searching for other
information and then they findme.
So from the very beginning, I'ma resource to them.
So like, they're looking for avenue related to such and such.

(32:11):
And I've written a blog postabout like the, okay, example,
this is kind of a tangent, butit's related.
So, I, one week was talking tofriends and I was like, I love
small weddings, like I had kindof a small destination wedding
and I just love the smallerweddings and I want to shoot
more of them.
And they're like, well, youshould write a blog post.
That's like the top five.
venues in the area for smallweddings.

(32:32):
And so I was like, done, do it.
So I wrote a blog post, like thetop five Lansing, because I'm in
Lansing, Michigan, Lansing area,the top five, like Lansing
venues for a small Smallintimate wedding and I put it on
Pinterest.
I put it on the blog and, posteda couple of different places.
And a week later I booked awedding, a small wedding for my,

(32:54):
the one, like number one venuethat I had listed on that list.
So they're finding me in theseways where they're like, like, I
actually have couples come to mecause I do a lot about like
locations and tips and things.
And they'll come to me and belike, Hey, I saw you wrote this
article.
I found you through a lotthrough Pinterest.
And we haven't even picked ourvenue yet, but.
Okay.
What do you think about thisone?
And then we'll get back to youon the actual photos once we

(33:15):
have a date, cause we don't knowour date yet.
So a lot of them are finding methat way and they're getting
resources from the verybeginning.
When they inquire for a wedding,they get an automatic reply,
it's very responsive that givesthem like, Hey, I'll get back to
you and let you know if my, ifI'm available on that date, but
in the meantime, here's somemore advice that's really going
to help you.
And so I'm helping them writetheir timeline.
Nobody knows where to start onthat.

Raymond Hatfield (33:36):
If you've never been married, I tell this
to brides all the time.
How are you expected to knowwhat you're supposed to do?
Right, you don't

Allie Siarto (33:41):
know how long stuff takes.
I have this whole guide thatlike walks them through
everything.
A guide on do you need a secondphotographer?
So they feel like I'm a reallybig resource from the beginning.
Or for a portrait, I just have,again, it's like very
responsive.
I give them tips on what towear.
I mail out a style guide thathelps them with what to wear.
Gives them advice on where toget their makeup done.
It gives them, again, ideas ofwhat they can put in their home.

(34:04):
It gets them really inspiredwith the brides.
I talk about touch points.
So I have an email series thatgoes out once a week for 13
weeks where it's answering allthose questions that they either
knew they had or they didn'tknow they had yet.
And so when I'm meeting withthem at the consultation,
they'll be like, Oh, well, Whatdo we do if it rains?
And I'm like, Oh, funny.
I actually have an email on thatthat you'll get, but here's just
wait

Raymond Hatfield (34:24):
eight weeks and you'll find out.

Allie Siarto (34:26):
I'll be like, well, I'll tell you the basics.
But funny enough, that'sactually a really common
question.
So I have an email.
They're like, Oh, good.
Like, I'm not alone.
Other people have the same samequestions.
And then it's making a point todress, dress.
Well, you know, I learned thatfrom the very first book.
The Andre who I worked withbefore dress well into my brand
and look professional.
And I can't believe how manytimes at weddings I've had

(34:47):
people come up to me and say,like you or me and my second
photographer, you're doing sucha great job.
And I'm like, you haven't evenseen my photos, but it's because
I'm dressed professionally.
They see me working hard.
I think I swear at getting theHold fast to hold my two
cameras.
They like, I got morecompliments, not that I looked
good, but that I was doing agreat job when I bought that
thing.
Cause they were like, this girlknows what she's doing.

(35:08):
So, it's just like, it startsfrom the very first contact
point and it goes all the waythrough its touch points where
you're giving advice every stepof the way.
You're anticipating theirquestions based on frequently
asked questions so that you'reanswering the questions either
even before they know they havethem or along, you know,
anything that they ask.
You're very responsive withthose things.

(35:30):
You're setting expectations.
With weddings, you're planningout everything down to like,
who's going to call out names atthe family with the family list
down to literally like mom isnot allowed to call out names
and your wedding coordinator isnot allowed to call out names
because like, I know thatdoesn't work.
So they appreciate that becauseI'm going to set them up for
success because I know, I knowfrom experience what works and

(35:50):
what doesn't.

Raymond Hatfield (35:51):
Right.

Allie Siarto (35:51):
And then after the wedding, they get an email
immediately the next day.
That's like, here's what's goingto happen next.
Just as a reminder, they get apreview really quickly.
And then they get the experienceof getting to sit down together
and see their photos for thefirst time as a slideshow.
So it's, it's a much moreemotional experience.
And I always tell them, I usedto send the photos and they were
just a gallery and every, andlike every ride would just email

(36:12):
me back and be like, Oh my gosh,I looked at these at work and I
like stopped working all day andit was so fun.
And then I'd be like, what aboutyour husband?
And they'd be like, uh, yeah.
Oh yeah, right.

Raymond Hatfield (36:21):
He needs to see these too.

Allie Siarto (36:23):
Right?
And I like did the same thing.
Like my photos came and I lookedat half of them before.
I was like, Oh, Jeff.
Yeah.
Wait, wait, come on over.
So I forced like force themsounds me.
I, have them choose a date.
No, I, I like do force them.
So like, it's not encouraged.
They have to do it, but I guessI couldn't, I'm not there.
I make them pick a date whenthey can both be together to see
the photos.
And sometimes people havedelayed as much as like two

(36:46):
weeks beyond the date when theywould have otherwise seen the
photos, because they want tomake a point to be together and
be like, very present.
And so they're willing to dothat.
They're willing to wait if itmakes for a better experience
where they, and it's not on, Ihave the photos ready.
They're good to go, but theywant just as much as I do.
They want to have a goodexperience so they can sit back
and have music and they're moreemotionally tied to it.

(37:07):
Just think about, you know, whenyou can like pour a glass of
wine and have music and

Raymond Hatfield (37:11):
be under that tree with your best friends and
have that wine experience.
I totally get

Allie Siarto (37:15):
it.
Exactly.
Instead of, sitting at work andclicking through the photos,
kind of like trying not to getcaught not working.
Yeah, yeah,

Raymond Hatfield (37:21):
yeah.
Right, right.
Well, I mean, all of those arelike really great tips.
And I'm sure that your bridesreally appreciate everything
that you do for them.
But, I want to ask, what wereyou doing before?
Maybe, you said that you hadshot some portraits before.
And you would show those off tobrides.
There's a lot of photographerswho are listening to this right
now who, maybe they're justcharging 100 for a portrait
session or something.

(37:42):
what's something that they cando to improve their client's
experience?

Allie Siarto (37:47):
I think you can.
Wait, real quick.

Raymond Hatfield (37:48):
Yeah.
You said a lot of things aboutlike educating the clients,
right?
And that makes sense.
A lot of the things that you'resharing is helpful for the
clients.
Let's take it one step evenfurther back and say that
somebody is just getting intoportrait photography and maybe
they're not, they don't knoweverything about, photography.
What could go wrong?

Allie Siarto (38:06):
Yeah.
They don't know what advice togive because they haven't
figured it out yet.

Raymond Hatfield (38:09):
Exactly.
What sorts of things can theydo?
Yeah.

Allie Siarto (38:11):
Well, I think that the very first thing you should
focus on is your posing becausethat is so much a part of the
client experience.
And for me, I am a really bigfan of kind of like the, I
started with, I took like thebeloved class from gesture,
gesture rocks years ago.
And now like the unposed fieldguide is a big thing.
And so I think it's worthinvesting, like, before you go

(38:31):
and buy a hundred presets again,I think it's worth investing in
a some posing courses or adviceand there's every kind of school
of thought and I am definitelyin the school of thought of the
kind of unposed that's nottotally the right terminology.
Like you have to pose them in away that they're going to face
the camera in the right way.
Like they're going to lookflattering, but using prompts

(38:53):
and using motion to get them tofeel comfortable asking them
questions that are going to getthem to laugh.
And I can't give those awaybecause they're not mine to
give, but I'll say that they'vechanged everything in my
business.
And, I already for years havebeen using these prompts, and
I've made up my own prompts, andI'll just make them up on the
fly sometimes, and some workreally well, and some I'm like,
yeah, we'll use that one again.

(39:14):
But I even, like, just boughtthe Unposed field guide because
I just wanted some freshprompts.
It's to be able to throw atpeople because if I do their
engagement photos, I want to usedifferent prompts for their
weddings.
And it's just everything.
I mean, we had the first sessionthat I did after buying that
set, like we laughed for an hourstraight.
I learned so much about thecouple because it's asking them

(39:35):
questions about like tellingstories about themselves and
they're laughing and they'rehaving fun.
So I think if you take thatapproach, people love it.
And so often, especially theguys are like.
I'm really awkward.
I'm not really excited aboutthis.
I'm being dragged along.
And then like the biggestcompliment I get is when the guy
at the end is like, that wasactually really fun.
I didn't think it was going tobe, and I had a great time.
And you know, it was like adate.

(39:56):
It was really fun.
So I think that even if you knownothing else and you have
nothing to give in terms of tipsthat you should, you know, get
really good at like naturalposing and you can buy resources
like, I sell my bride guide youcan buy like a lot of people
sell templates i've invested inthat in the past when I didn't
necessarily know like emailtemplates that were things like

(40:18):
how to prepare for a sessionbecause I was like, I don't know
what to tell them to wear I'm,not sure so finding things on
Pinterest, links on Pinterestthat you can send them to, like,
just create a Pinterest board ofoutfits that you like, that you
can say, Hey, I created aPinterest board for you.
Here's some ideas that will getyou started.
Just, uh, It's really basicthings that don't take a lot of
experience.
You can kind of like learn, youcan either buy templates or you

(40:42):
can kind of get enough of a feelto be able to give enough
advice.
And then it is also littlethings like just keeping an eye
out for those details for them,looking at them and being like,
Hey, your hair's in your face,I'm going to help you or, your
shirt is crooked and I'm goingto even it out.
Like they are going to, Oh,thank you.
I didn't notice that.
So they feel confident in thatknowing that they look good.

Raymond Hatfield (41:03):
Right.
We've talked a lot about theunposed, uh, posing cards in the
beginner photography podcast,Facebook group, because it's one
of those things that I thinkwhen you're first starting out
in photography, you naturallyjust kind of start shooting
landscapes.
Cause it requires no extrainteraction, like through
anybody else, right?
You don't have to get anybodytogether.
You shoot landscapes and thenyou think, maybe I want to shoot
like people, maybe I want tophotograph people.

(41:24):
You have one session, you don'tknow how to pose.
It's terrible.
And then you're like, I'm neverdoing this again.
Bye.
I also own the, Unpost cards,and like you said, I love them
to death, and I had a verysimilar experience after my
first session using them, it wasjust so much fun, and it just
totally changed my photographycompletely, because now I wasn't
focused about, like, Okay, letme think.

(41:46):
Okay, she's got to do this withher elbow and this and now it's
me learning more about them andthat really elevates that client
experience.
It all goes back to thatexperience.
And you have stories

Allie Siarto (41:56):
to tell and relate back to and then when you're
like posting it, you can postlike something that's funny
related to it and you just learnso much about them.
So I know my first, my firstsession with a couple, it was my
friends.
I was like, please let me bringyou around Chicago and take your
photo.
And everything was very romanticbecause romantic is easy to be
like, put your foreheadstogether, like, you know, hug
here and it's fine.

(42:16):
Like I still will do a littlebit of that, but honestly, like
95 percent of the photos I take,I'm going for lighthearted And
like smiling and laughing.
That's the best thing I can get.
And I found having hiredassociates and bringing them
onto my team.
That's the number one feedbackthat I would get in the early
days was like, we really feellike we're a lighthearted
couple.
Like everybody has that.
Right.
And we want it.

(42:36):
We want to make sure that we'regetting photos that reflect that
we're lighthearted.
We're posing like.
a lot of people just don't feellike that's them.
If it's like, you don't just putyour foreheads together on an
everyday basis.
And yeah, so you're like, that'snice.
You want to remember that loveand that feeling and that
connection, but you also reallywant to remember the laughter
and you have to have a way tobring that out of people.
And I like it to be real insteadof just saying, okay, laugh.

(42:58):
Ha ha ha.
I like it to be real where theyare like, laughing.
You can just tell when they arelegitimately laughing and going
back to the experience, theyremember that they were laughing
instead of faking it.
If they look at a photo andthey're fake laughing, they know
they're fake laughing.
So they like will always look atit and be like, oh yeah, it's my
fake laugh.
But if they're laughing forreal, they're like, oh my gosh,
remember when like he said thisand she said

Raymond Hatfield (43:19):
this.
I know, I love to ask weddingand portrait photographers this
question.
This is my favorite question toask have you obviously you focus
a lot on client experience It'sprobably the number one thing
that I think that you reallystrive for right obviously great
pictures and then clientexperience Have you ever been to
a wedding or a portrait sessionwhere you've had like a really
embarrassing moment that?
You potentially learnedsomething from and how did you

(43:41):
work your way out of it?

Allie Siarto (43:43):
I don't know if there's ever been anything
that's like over the topembarrassing, but it's probably
all those little, like I said,those little pain points, like
something goes wrong, and I feellike, well, like, okay, here's
one example that happened kindof after the wedding.
I was still like going back andforth to Chicago, so I
photographed a wedding inChicago, and the mother of the
groom emailed me a really angryemail after the wedding and she
was very mad at me and she saidyou didn't take, you hardly took

(44:06):
any photos of me and I went backand I was like, oh, well, I took
65 photos of you.
Here you go.
I put together a special galleryof your photos and she wrote
back and she's like, well,that's great.
I don't like any of them.
I don't like the angle.
These are from the side and fromthis angle.
I just don't like myself inthem, so you didn't take enough.
And what did I learn from thatexperience?
I learned that of every wedding,I need to go up to all the

(44:28):
parents and I need to say, Hey,did you get everything you want?
Do you want me to take any morephotos with you with anybody
else?
And, um, sometimes they'll belike, no, we're good.
Thank you.
But I appreciate that.
And sometimes they'll be like,Yes! Like they're so excited and
they're like, come with me! Andthey'll bring me along and
they'll take photos with theirfriends.
And they're happy because youknow what?
I will never get that emailagain because I have asked and I

(44:50):
have ensured that I am gettingthe photos that they want.
So, that was like a major painpoint.
I was like, It's horrible to getan email like that, even if I
felt like it wasn't like, I feltlike I had taken plenty of her,
but she didn't.
It's all about, expectations.
So I found a way to make surethat I'm not going to experience
that again.
And they're not going to again,because I'm going to say to the

(45:11):
bride, the groom and all theparents, did I get everything
that you wanted?
Are there any other photos youwant with anybody else that you
want to remember being withtoday?

Raymond Hatfield (45:19):
I love it.
That's a great tip.
And something that I thinkPossibly gets overlooked quite
often.
Maybe photographers just thinkthat it's just the couple that
they're working for and whocares about the parents, but

Allie Siarto (45:28):
yeah.
And especially when the parents,you know, they're a lot of times
they're paying for it.
And so they want to know thatthey have nice photos of
themselves too.
That's really important to careabout the parents too.

Raymond Hatfield (45:37):
For sure.
For sure.
Well, Allie, you've have came onand you've shared a ton of great
information today, and I reallyappreciate your time for sure.
Can you tell the listeners wherethey can find out more about you
and the Photo Field Notespodcast?

Allie Siarto (45:52):
Oh, yeah, sure.
Okay, so I just set up the PhotoField Notes podcast on
Instagram, finally split it out.
So it's at Photo Field Notes onInstagram, and then
PhotoFieldNotes.
com you can listen to.
So kind of a similar format tothis, like interviews, and then
a mix of just me telling people.
Random stories or advice orthings that people have asked
me.
And then I'm also on Instagramas at Allie Ciarto.

(46:14):
So it's A L L I E S I A R T O.
And then my website is alsoallieciarto.
com and that's my wedding andportrait photography website.

Raymond Hatfield (46:24):
Awesome.
Well, Allie, again, thank you somuch for coming on.
I really appreciate everythingthat you shared and, I look
forward to keeping up with youand, following you on Instagram
in the future.

Allie Siarto (46:31):
Sure thing.
Thanks Raymond.
Of

Raymond Hatfield (46:32):
course.
If you only implement one thinginto your photography from
today's episode, let it be thisone action item.
Audit your process.
Take a moment to think about,how your process looks to
clients.
How do you reply to clients?
What are the questions that theyask you?
Do you send some sort of prepemail?

(46:53):
A good test I would give myselfis asking, have I told them the
next steps?
Like, do they know what the nextstep is?
For an inquiry, have I made itclear that the next step is to
get on a phone call?
For the contract, have I made itclear, that their date is not
locked in until their deposit ispaid.
Before a shoot, have I made itclear, where I will meet them at
what time, what my number is,just in case they get lost or

(47:14):
something?
And after a shoot have I made itclear when I will deliver the
photos so that they don't sit athome and wonder if I just forgot
about them.
So there you go.
Audit your process.
Hold their hand, reassure themthat you are the professional
and that they are in good hands.
That's it for today.
Until next week, remember, themore that you shoot today, the
better of a photographer you'llbe tomorrow.