Master Your Camera Settings Fast with Bryan Caporicci

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bryan Caporicci (00:00):
Success in this industry and growth and
longevity and sustainability arenot going to come overnight.
Slow yourself down and say, it'sokay that it takes time to build
these things up.
It's okay that you don't getthis right away.
It's okay that you can't pay$300, get a perfect portfolio
and then book these luxurybrides the next day.

(00:21):
Like that's not going to happen.
That's not a sustainable way tobuild a business.

Raymond Hatfield (00:27):
Hey, welcome to the Beginner Photography
Podcast.
I'm your host, Raymond Hatfield,and each week I interview one of
the world's most interestingphotographers to learn what it
really takes to capturebeautiful images so that you can
start to do the same.
In today's rewind episode, weare chatting with wedding and
portrait photographer BrianCaparici about what to focus on
if you're just getting startedout learning photography.

(00:50):
But first, the BeginnerPhotography Podcast is brought
to you by Cloudspot.
With CloudSpot you can impressyour clients with a beautiful
gallery that is easy to share,view, and of course download on
any device.
You can control image size, adda watermark, and of course
download limits as well.
So grab your free foreveraccount today over at
deliverphotos.

(01:11):
com and only upgrade when youare ready.
Brian Capricci is not only anamazingly talented photographer,
he's also an incredibly generouseducator.
Brian came into the world ofphotography from the business
side.
So, he had to learn photographyin a very strategic, methodical
way.
You know, it was not just a partof him as he was growing up.

(01:33):
He had to make a serious effortto learn photography and as
you'll hear, he needed to do soquickly.
So in today's episode with BrianCaparici, you're going to learn
how exactly to master yourtechnical skills early and
become fluent in the operationsof your camera.
Why practicing in real worldsituations will build your
knowledge faster than doing amillion, paid style shoots.

(01:56):
And what to focus on after youmaster the technicals of
photography.
There's one thing that I wantyou to remember though.
It's that listening to thepodcast should not be a passive
experience.
Use this time to betteryourself.
Take the lessons that youlearned today and apply them in
your real life photographypractice.

(02:18):
Use what is shared with you tomake a difference and become the
photographer that you want tobecome.
just don't want you to wasteyour time and just go back to
doom scrolling your social feedand watching everybody else get
better.
You can do this for your owncreative well being, but you
gotta do it.
You gotta do it for yourself.

(02:38):
So with that, let's go ahead andget on into today's interview
with Brian Capparici.
A few weeks ago.
I saw one of your posts onFacebook pop up saying, you
know, Hey, who's on Clubhouse?
This new social media app,right?
And, you were doing a talk onwedding photography and it was
like this hangout for weddingphotographers.
So right away I thought, I gottaget in on this.

(02:59):
I gotta, join this new socialmedia platform.
And I have to learn, of course,from the master, Brian Caparici,
here.
And this whole thing, while Iwas there, just like, blew my
mind.
it was very immersive, and itwas very entertaining.
So for those who, I guess, don'tknow yet, who haven't heard of
it, can you kind of fill them inon what is Clubhouse and why

(03:19):
it's so different?
Because you've totally become anevangelist for this new, app,
and I would love to hear yourthoughts on this.

For sure.
Yeah, it's a ton of fun.
I mean, I think the timing ofclubhouse and we can back up and
I can talk about whatspecifically it is, but like,
let's just acknowledge for amoment, the timing of it was
perfect.
I mean, with where we are rightnow, or where we've come in
2020, where we are in 2021, weas humans are seeking
connection.
Like we're seeking, the abilityto collaborate and talk and

(03:47):
network and like be together andwe, you know, we can't in our
industry grant, we can't do it,at WPPI workshops, conventions,
like it's just, that doesn'texist.
So what do we do?
We all go to Facebook and wechat on Facebook, but it just,
there's a certain Somethingmissing, you know, when you just
do like this text basedcommunication.
So clubhouse is basically likebeing at a convention.

(04:08):
It's a virtual convention, moreor less, right?
You have this like main hallway,which is like the main,
newsfeed, like where you used todo on Facebook, where you just
can kind of sort of scrollthrough the hallway and what
you're scrolling through are abunch of different rooms of all
the people that you follow.
And they're basically in a roomhaving conversations.
So imagine you're at WPPI,you're walking down the hallway
and you see a room and you'relike, Oh, that's cool.

(04:30):
Raymond's in that room.
And it says that they're talkingabout marketing.
So you kind of can, like, youcan step into the room and you
can just kind of like hang outin the audience and you can
listen to these differentpeople.
10 people on stage who aretalking about marketing.
And if you want to add somethingto the conversation, you raise
your hand, you go up on stage,you can add, and then you go
back to the audience.
Or if you have a question, youraise your hand, ask the

(04:50):
question, go back into theaudience.
And that's basically whatclubhouse is.
It's an audio only.
social media, tool that justallows us to connect, to
converse, to have conversations,to teach, to learn, to network.
it's just, it's a ton of fun andthere's so many great
conversations happening overthere.
And so many great ways toconnect with each other as

(05:14):
photographers with other,wedding professionals, or just
to like hang out and learnthings that you want to learn.
If you want to go learn aboutBitcoin or you want to go like,
you know, last night, Tesla wason there.
You know what I mean?
Like doing all these, it's justlike, you can really do
anything, but it's just anopportunity to dive in and to
connect in an audio only format.
So it takes away that Fear thatso many people have of like,

(05:37):
zoom fatigue or being on videoand all that you just kind of
put your air pods on and you canlisten and connect while you're
doing something else.

that's exactly what I was doing.
I put in the air pods.
I went and started walking onthe treadmill and I was like,
this feels totally differentthan everything else that we've
had before.
And even like with live, even ifyou join some sort of live
conversation on Facebook,there's this element that you're
still watching somebody who islive and that's it.
And even like, if you leave acomment or whatever, you're

(06:06):
still kind of behind this veilof a computer.
But with clubhouse, like you canactually talk to these people.
And I got to say the other day,there was a chat room with Joe
Greer who is big into filmphotography on YouTube.
And I thought to myself, I waslike, Whoa, like, here's Joe
Greer.
Like, imagine if I just, walkedinto the store and there was Joe

(06:26):
Greer, you know, and here he wastalking about a film it's a
really new platform, obviously,but it's a lot of fun.
And I had a great timeconnecting with you and Devin
who was there as well.
so that was a great time.
And I'm glad to get you back onthe show today, obviously, but
you know, there's going to be alot of long time listeners who
are going to remember that you,uh, We're back on the show in,
uh, it was episode 60.
So this is like 2017, so it'sbeen a long time.

(06:49):
Yeah, wow.

It's been a while.

it's been a while, but for those who, maybe
haven't been listening thatlong, I'm sure that a few people
have maybe just got a cameraover the holidays for Christmas.
Can you reintroduce yourself tothem as far as who you are and
how photography plays a role inyour life?

Yeah, for sure.
first of all, congratulationson, I mean, you with your
podcast, Raymond.
It's like running a podcast is alot of work.
And I know that because we havea podcast.
You know that.
You're up to

episode 450.
Like, this is bananas.

Yeah, I mean, it's cool.
And it's fun and it's great.
But like, you know, what maybe alot of listeners don't know is
like getting past episode 20 isa huge milestone.
And then past 50 is a hugemilestone.
And then past a hundred is ahuge milestone, like 1 percent
of podcasts make it there.
So the fact that we, we had achance to talk back in 2017 on
episode 60, and now we're stilltalking again today.

(07:38):
I don't know what episode numberthis is going to be, but, but my
quick math says My quick mathsays it's at least 200.
So I mean, congratulations toyou on that.
Um,

anyways,

yes.
So, so about me, so I've been aprofessional wedding and
portrait photographer for 15years.
I'm here in Niagara, Ontario,Canada, and, I've been full time
making a living supporting myfamily as a sole income provider
for 15 years.
my wife and I, we have threekids.
She's a stay at home mom and,The living that we have in the
life we have is because themoney I made with my camera.
And, I've always had a passionfor the business side of

(08:09):
photography, which I think makesme a bit of a weirdo in our
space.
Cause I'm not like the starvingartist type.
You know, I, I actually do likethe business side, the
marketing, the selling, thepricing, so on and so forth.
And so I've been teachingbusiness to photographers for
about 10 years, but I've writtena handful of books.
the one book that I wrote calledpricing for profits actually
used in colleges anduniversities as a textbook, to

(08:29):
teach, up and comingphotographers how to price
themselves.
So the business side issomething I have a huge passion
for, and I really love, and Ilove to help photographers
because most photographers getinto it.
Photography because they lovephotography,

not

necessarily because they're like, Oh, I want
to be an entrepreneur.

Um,

maybe I'll make money with my camera.
It's like, no, they think of itthe other way.
You know, they just stumble intoit.
So I like to be there to helpthem to give them guidance to
give them advice to give them,strategies that have worked
because I've been there and I'vedone it for 15 years.
and that all led me about six orseven years ago to start and to
be the founder of what's nowSprout Studio.
So it's a software that helpsphotographers run their

(09:08):
business.
So we give them the knowledgeand the strategies and the
insight on the education side.
But then we also have a toolthat they can use to actually
execute these things and runtheir business.
So that's, that's me in 60seconds, Raymond.

Man, yeah, you could go on, so much longer just
because of the amount ofaccomplishments that you have,
not only, from your photographiccapabilities and the awards that
you've won there, but, as you'resaying, I think helping out
photographers now, it seems haskind of become like your
mission, you know, in this pastyear, I've seen you take a huge

(09:43):
step forward in the amount ofcontent that you come out with,
and that are the types ofcontent that you come out with
specifically geared towardshelping Those other
photographers, and I know thatthere's a lot of other, I don't
know, systems out there for thebusiness side of things.
But yours is obviously focusedon photographers and all the
content that you come out withis as well.
And it's great to see yourexperience, kind of shine

(10:03):
through in all of that.
But before you got to this pointto where you are today, was a
beginning, right?
And this, since this is thebeginner photography podcast, I
want to know more about that.
What was it that first told you,you know what, I think
photography is going to play alarge, role in my life here?
The

funny thing, and I don't talk about this too
much, but the funny thing aboutmy beginning in photography was,
I'll back up to, I guess itwould have been like 2000, 2005.
I was in school for computerscience.
I was going to university forcomputer science.
And because I was like thecomputer science guy, of course,
like you're the guy thateveryone goes to for computer.
Help and questions and whatever,because you know, everything

(10:42):
apparently.
so I actually got a summer jobworking for another
photographer.
I didn't know anything aboutphotography.
I had no interest.
I got a job working for thisother photographer who did like
gymnastics events.
So we would go.
To different gymnastics eventsaround Ontario, and he would
sort of deploy a crew ofphotographers to photograph the
gymnasts on the floors and atthe various sort of stations,

(11:04):
and then they would all bring itback to me at this like booth
that we had set up.
And because again, I was thecomputer guy.
This is early days of digitaltoo, right?
2005 was, it was a verydifferent day and age than it is
now.
So we would basically,

Oh, it was, it was insane.

So back then for reference, for anyone that,
you know, we're used toLightroom and all these things
now that didn't even exist.
Like Lightroom wasn't aroundthen.
I know it sounds like weactually carved the pictures on
pieces of stone.
Um, so we use a software called,what's it?
A C.
ACDC or ACD or OCD.
It was some software like that.
The logo was orange.
I can still picture it.

(11:40):
anyways, they would all bringthem back.
I would offload them onto the,computers.
I would do selections and then Iwould get them ready for a
slideshow that the parents couldthen come back and look at the
photos.
They would pick which ones theywanted and we would print them
on site for them right then andthere.
So it was like this onsite eventphotography thing.
Again, I was doing the computerside, not the photography side.
so my entrepreneurial brain gotspinning cause I've always been

(12:03):
entrepreneurial in my thinking.
And him and I started a sidecompany called memories in
motion.
And we did what we call them.
We thought we were fancy backthen.
We called it digital memorypreservation, which is like, so
like what a, what a mouthful,but again, this is like early
days of digital.
So the fact that we could dothese like fancy slideshows or
these advanced DVD menus withlike buttons that you could

(12:26):
click to play the differentslideshows.
It was like, it was all the rageback then.
Right.
So we did that.
And, pretty well doing that.
And him and I just kind of wenttwo different directions.
but I was loving what we weredoing.
He was always the photographyside.
I was always the tech side.
And so when we split, I waslike, well, I want to keep
running this company.
but I don't know anything aboutphotography.
So I basically took over thecompany.

(12:48):
I had a company called memoriesin motion and I walked into
Henry's a camera store herelocally.
And I said, Hey, so I have aphotography business.
I need to buy a camera because Idon't know what I'm doing

right away.

So that was like, that was basically, you
know, the start.
And then from there, obviously Ifell in love with photography
through the discovery of it.
But for me, I started it as anentrepreneur first because I saw
the opportunity.
I saw the excitement of runningmy own thing.
and photography just happened tobe the space that I fell into.
And then over the next 15 years,I've obviously fallen in love
with photography and thecreative side and the ability to

(13:21):
make images and say somethingwith my camera.
But, I started as anentrepreneur first and then
found photography.
So it's an interesting dynamicbecause again, like I said
earlier, most photographers,Start in the opposite direction,
right?
Of like loving photography andthen wanting to start a
business.
I was the opposite.
those were kind of like theearly days.
And I think I attribute that tothe success that I've been able

(13:42):
to achieve and in my own way, asa photographer, because, you
know, my first year of shootingweddings, I booked 32 weddings.
weddings and it's like, and Ibelieve it's not because
necessarily I was a betterphotographer than anyone, even
though I think I, I did a prettygood job as a photographer.
It was my marketing skills, myselling skills, just the fact
that I looked at what I did asan entrepreneur, as a business

(14:05):
person, that's what got me towhere I was.

So you decided right from the beginning, once
you bought that camera, you werelike, You had decided to go into
weddings at that point, or wereyou still doing some sports?
I did, I did two

seasons of sports.
I did that and I think Iremember one specific time
where, so I would do like theteam and individual picture
where you have like a basketballunder your arm and be like
cheese.
And then do that like 5, 000times, like on a weekend.
Cause I would do all the local,I did all the local basketball,
the local soccer, associations.
We did.
We did tennis.
We did baseball.

(14:36):
I did everything.
And then we ended up doing liveevents and things like that.
and it was good.
It was fine.
I was enjoying it.
It was able to help me learnphotography and build the
business and build the systemsand build the team and do all
those things.
Again, I was like an 18 year oldkid too.
So here I was like, Holy cow.
but I just, I was neverfulfilled.
I've never been a sports guymyself and I wasn't really
fulfilled creatively doing thatbecause.

(14:59):
It's assembly line photography.
There's nothing wrong with it.
But just for me, I just didn't,I didn't love it.
So I kind of quicklytransitioned, away from that and
into weddings after like a yearor two type of thing.
And yeah, that first year ofshooting weddings, I booked 32
weddings.

So let's talk about that progression for you
as far as that learning curve,because I would say, I don't
want to get these words mixedup.
As you said, when it comes tolike assembly line type photos,
once you kind of figure out yoursettings, it's just, Yeah.
Rinse and repeat all day long.
Where as a wedding Entirelydifferent.
You're constantly changingsettings.
So is there a big learning curvefor you there or by the time you

(15:34):
had got into weddings?
Were you already prettyproficient with the camera to
where you were able to get inthere?

Yeah, I think it was like the way that I see
things and analyze things andbreak things down and understand
them I mean, that's what'sgotten me to where I am now with
sprout but I even think backthen there were signs of that
where there was this like, massproduction element to like, to
the sports photography, but Ialways looked at it differently.
I always really looked at it aschallenges.

(16:00):
How can I do things differently?
I didn't want to do the samekind of work that like, you
know, your Jostens was doing orlike, those kinds of things.
So I did always look at it alittle bit more creatively than
probably others may have at thetime.
and in doing so I did, I didhave to learn and figure out
lighting and understandsettings.
And then also because we weredoing live events, you know,
photographing a basketballtournament or a baseball

(16:21):
tournament and all that.
There was this training of beingable to catch the right moment
and understand settings andlearn shutter speeds and how
they interact with differentthings and aperture and what you
want to get in focus.
And so there was an element.
and back then too, if you, Idon't know if like thinking
back, what camera would have Ihad back in the day, the Canon
something, I don't know, theCanon 30D, or maybe even the

(16:41):
Canon 20D, it's like, youcouldn't shoot over ISO.
800 without like having golfballs everywhere in your
picture.
Right.
So like, you know, you had toreally understand the technical
side and because I was verytechnical in my thinking, I did
learn that stuff quickly.
Now I second shot weddings thosefirst two years as I was doing
the sports photography.
So I learned a lot.

(17:02):
Through that, I was basicallyworking three full time jobs,
right?
Like running the photographybusiness itself.
I was still a student at thetime still.
And then also every weekend Iwas second shooting with a local
photographer.
So I was shooting, 20 weddings,every summer learning as a
second shooter, as an assistant,just figuring out how things go.
So by the time I did actuallybreak out and do my own

(17:24):
weddings, I had probably 50weddings under my belt that I
had second shot for.
So learned through that,

of course, experience.
Yeah, that's, that's gotta beone of the best ways to learn.
I think, you know, anybody canattest to that.
We can read books all day ontechnicals and settings and
whatnot, but it's not until youactually get behind the camera
and you do these things that yourealize, oh, either this works
or this doesn't work.
So when you had first went tothose, few weddings as a second,

(17:51):
was there anything that reallycaught you off guard and you
struggled with as far as thephotography goes?

I would say the biggest challenge about weddings
and anyone that's photographedweddings, can empathize with
this.
it's just like the fast moving,the fast pace of a wedding.
that's not only photographicallyis that constantly changing,
right?
Like you're in a bride's houseand you're in your bio window
backlit, and then all of asudden you're front lit.
And then all of a sudden you'rethis, and then you turn around
and there's a flower girl thatlooks cute and you need to get

(18:17):
that shot.
And then you go downstairs inthe basement and it's pitch
dark.
And then you got to go up hereand do it's like, you're
constantly changing.
So not only is there like.
Continual technical challengesthat you have to be able to
think about, but it happens likelightning fast, right?
Like it's, and then the pace andthen the stress at the wedding
and things are getting heatedand dad's yelling and this is
this and the little girl'scrying and like all these things

(18:40):
that kind of, for me, that wasthe biggest thing.
It's like I could, and I seethis even now when
photographers, newerphotographers, you know, like
understanding the technical.
Is obviously that's the firststep like get getting over those
things, but then from there,it's like, yeah, but now figure
out that technical in a pressurecooker, right?
Like figure those things outunder that stress of it.

(19:00):
So for me, that was the biggestbecause I admittedly, I kind of
went in feeling really confidentin myself as a technical
photographer thinking like, Oh,I got this.
This is no problem.
Like I know the stuff off theback of my hand because I was
technical.
But then Yeah.
Yeah.
Adding the pressure to that, itchanges the game.
So that was probably the biggestchange for me.

I have a similar story.
I went to film school, so Ilearned all the technicals of
cinematography to learn to lightfor movies.
And obviously in a production,you're going to have all the
equipment that you need to beable to, light to, to film.
Technically perfect settings,right?
So when I transitioned intowedding photography, I thought
it was easy.
Like I've been, I know exactlywhat to do here.

(19:40):
I know all the settings that Ineed to do if it's low light and
all this stuff.
And that first wedding, I stillhate to share the story, but,
the entire first dance, I shotit at half a second just to make
sure, cause I was like, I gottakeep that ISO low, you gotta
have, nice, beautiful grain, uh,yeah, they didn't use any of
those photos.
In fact, that couple used aphoto of the first dance Another
guest took on their cell phone.

(20:01):
Oh, no.
Yeah.
Their first answer is theirprofile picture.
And I knew at that moment, itwas right then at that moment
that I realized, Oh, man,settings are nowhere near as
important as so many otherfactors.
You know, like, Yeah.
Like, moment, you know?
So, In a time where newphotographers are coming in
right now, especially rightafter the holidays, lots of
people get cameras, for theholidays and whatnot.

(20:23):
There's a lot of things that wecan be focusing on and it can be
very overwhelming becausequickly you realize, oh, this is
really more than just pressing abutton.
So for those photographers whoare worried, what are some of
the things that they should befocusing on right now at this
stage to kind of avoid potentialoverwhelm?

I would say like take it a step at a time.
I think that's probably thebiggest mistake that I see
photographers make, especiallyin those early days.
actually, interestingly enough,anecdotally, I was in a
clubhouse room last night, justkind of hanging out with, 60 or
70 other photographers, andthere was a conversation that
there was a newer photographer.
She was, you know, I looked ather Instagram.
Her work was beautiful on herInstagram.

(20:59):
She was still a student and shewas kind of going on about how
she had just finished paying forlike a styled shoot.
to like, to participate in thestyled shoot.
And like, I was like, I kind of,I raised my hand and just
started asking questions anddiscussing with her because
genuinely, I don't quiteunderstand it.
get that.
Like it's a thing, but like mybiggest challenge was like, so

(21:19):
what are you trying to show offand do it being something like
this, because you're in thisperfectly styled, expensive
setup with zero pressure ortimelines or limitations or
anything like it doesn't reallyshow off what you can do as a
photographer.
Photographer, it just showsthat, you know, how to press the
button and what settings to useand that, you know, how to edit
a picture.

(21:40):
that kind of comes back to whatwe're talking about here in my
opinion.
It's really easy to kind of letour ego.
And again, I was there, so I I'mspeaking from experience.
I'm not criticizing to let ouregos get ahead of us in the
sense of like, Oh yeah, I knowthis stuff.
Like I'm going to just start.
It's like.
You need to walk before you run.
You need to crawl before youwalk.

(22:00):
You know what I'm saying?
Like you need to kind of take itbit by bit.
And I think to try and get intolike, you know, the, and even I,
I hear these conversations nowwhere photographers who are so
early in their career aretalking about ideal client and
that's not the kind of luxurywedding I want to have and this
and that.
And it's just like, guys, get ahandful of seasons under your

(22:21):
belt.
Just like, Shooting weddingsfirst, like you need to
understand because not onlythere's a couple of paths that I
see here, number one, like wetalked about, you have to learn
the technical, you need to beable to understand your camera,
the technical, the settings,exposure, you need to get that
stuff.
Like flawlessly off the back ofyour hand with it.
It needs to be second nature.
That's the first part.

(22:41):
As soon as you get over that,you're in a good place, right?
Next, add the pressure to it.
Right?
now do that in the pressurecooker.
So that's the next thing.
And then once you can get overthat, so you can show up to a
wedding and you can technically.
Get perfection.
that is like the next step.
Now you're into the milestone.
You're into this next stage ofyour, growth as an artist, where

(23:03):
now you need to stop looking atthings as technical problems and
start looking at things thathave meaning.
So how do you look, you talkedabout moment.
How do you look for moment?
How do you find nuance?
How do you piece togetherdetails?
How do you compose in a way thathas the impact?
Like there's all these things.
those are so far away from thetechnical capabilities that we

(23:25):
have as photographers.
That's where you become a goodwedding photographer.
When you can look at things andgo beyond the technical.
So that would be like the paththat I would recommend a
photographer going through.
And that's why I'm not a fan ofthe styled shoot concept,
because I don't think that itteaches any of those things.
It just teaches that, you know,how to press the button and get
the right settings, And yes, youneed to know that stuff, but

(23:45):
that shouldn't be what you'representing as your ability as a
photographer, because that's notreproducible on a wedding day.
So that would be kind of thepath that I would recommend is
like, number one, make sure thatyou get technically confident.
number two, make sure that youcan perform.
In that technically confidentway, under the pressure of a
wedding day.
And then number three, forgetabout all that stuff.

(24:08):
As soon as it becomes secondnature and it becomes habitual,
then you need to just trust yourmind and your body and like your
muscle memory to do thosethings.
And then now you need to befocusing on the things that
actually make an impact in thework that we do, which is nuance
and moment and storytelling and,cohesion and consistency and,
all those kinds of things.
And then once you figure thatout, once you get beyond that,

(24:30):
then it's all about, okay,great.
So now you can tell a story, youcan capture a moment, you can
see these things, you canpredict when like the, when
their laugh is going to be thebest, you can predict when this
moment's going to happen, youcan react, you can see, then now
you need to take.
The camera and everything awayfrom it and make sure that you
can integrate yourself on awedding day in a way that is
relatable, that you can connectwith people, that you can create

(24:53):
an environment that elicits realemotion.
You can make people feel atease.
You can make interactions toorchestrate moments sometimes,
or you can make interactionswhere you actually are invisible
in the moment.
So moments can happen withoutyour interest.
So there's, that's like the nextstep of growth.
And I'm not sure what would comenext, but like, those are like

(25:14):
the few main steps that I wouldsay it's a journey, right?
Like it's a journey.
it's a stepping ladder that youneed to walk up.
And so many photographers tryand jump to that last rung.
And it's like, you gotta do thework.
You got to put the time in, yougotta do the work.

I want to say to the whole, stylized shoot
type deal right there.
I'm torn on this because in thesame sense, like, this is not
something that I would do.
I would never find myself,especially paying for a stylized
shoot.
I could see myself helping outother vendors doing some sort of
stylized shoot, obviously withthem, but we're talking about
the sense of like, It's a newphotographer and they're looking
to gain experience, build aportfolio by doing this.

(25:50):
And two things that I hear mostfrom new photographers is that
a, they don't have enough timeto practice photography and B
they don't have anybody topractice with.
So when it comes to thesestylized shoots, like I see
where that comes from.
I see the desire to go to thesethings, but you're right.
They're missing like such thisbig step of, it's not just the

(26:11):
technicals.
It's, being able to replicatethis under pressure in a real
world environment.
So for those who, are worriedabout time for those who are
worried about not having thepeople to photograph.
if doing, stylized shoots isn'tthe way to go.
Is there anything else that youcould recommend maybe to build
practice and possibly grow theirportfolio as well?

Yeah, for sure.
I think, this all sits in thisfoundation of slowing down.
And again, like, I believe me,I've been there.
So I understand.
So I'm not criticizing, but I'mmore trying to encourage through
experience this idea that like,we all want to pick up the
camera, we figure out thistechnical thing.
And then we want to, again, wewant to start running, but it's
like, Success in this industryand growth and longevity and

(26:56):
sustainability are not going tocome overnight.
every overnight success is anovernight success, 10 years in
the making, it's never anovernight success.
and so the pull to want thosequick results is so, um, like we
can feel it, it's there, but tryto pause that feeling and slow

(27:17):
yourself down and say, it's okaythat it takes time.
To build these things up.
It's okay that you don't getthis right away.
It's okay that you can't pay300, get a perfect portfolio and
then book these luxury bridesthe next day.
Like that's not going to happen.
That's not a sustainable way tobuild a business.
So my advice would be to get inand almost follow the similar

(27:38):
path to what I just talked aboutwith myself, where.
Get in and figure out thetechnical, like you don't
necessarily need to have a bridein front of your camera or a
groom in front of your camera tofigure out the technical.
I mean, go out there and, andjust shoot, shoot whatever you
can around you, shoot, do selfportraits, go out and photograph
nature, like do whatever you canjust to like, the camera needs

(28:00):
to be an extension of your eyes,of your mind, of your vision.
your hand almost needs to noteven, like it needs to be again,
like muscle memory.
So whatever you can do just tolike put in the hours, put in
the time.
That's fine.
beyond that, now you, if youwant to start understanding the
nuances of applying those skillsand applying that muscle memory

(28:20):
to people, that's fine.
Find people to photograph themlike it that's that would be I
don't think we need to have thislike luxury boho bride with this
beautiful barn wedding above ablind order for us to practice
that because that's not when youwant to practice, you want to
make mistakes when you'rephotographing your kids or when
you're photographing like theneighbor's kids or when you're
out, you know, whatever you'redoing to practice photographing

(28:41):
people, that's when you want tomake mistakes.
Not when you're paying 500 to beat this bar.
perfectly styled shoot.
so do that.
and then even once you've gottenthat, now you need to start
second shooting.
am such an advocate for like theconcept of interning.
I think it's so important andit's so underutilized in our
industry.
It's almost utilized in a waythat like, Hey, I want a second

(29:01):
shoot for you so I can build aportfolio.
No, the whole point of secondshooting is not to build a
portfolio.
If you can, great.
If you can build a relationshipwith a photographer and do that.
Wonderful.
But the point of it is to learnthe ropes, to understand what
it's like to put in your hours,to put in your hours, who is it
that writes about the 10, 000hour rule in order to get good
at something, you've got to putin 10, 000 hours.

(29:22):
That's what we got to do asphotographers.
If you want to photographweddings, get out there and
photograph weddings, but do itand learn and be humble about it
and be hungry for it and bewilling to make mistakes and be
willing to carry someone else'sbags.
Cause you know that they didthat 10 years ago.
I did that 10 years ago, 15years ago.
Like, so you have to put in thetime and I think that's the best

(29:44):
way to do it.
Are you going to be able toshoot luxury weddings next year?
If you go that path?
Absolutely not.
But you're going to learn,you're going to get in there and
you're going to practice, you'regoing to know what it's like,
you're going to be able to talkwith another photographer,
you're going to see what youlike, you're going to see what
you don't like, you're going tohave experience practicing with
your camera, you're going tohave experience engaging with a
couple, engaging with familymembers, understanding the

(30:06):
nuances of a wedding day, andyou'll be able to go from there.
It's a slower path, but it's apath that gives you success in
the long term.

I know, photographer Sam Hurd uses, just
like posing, it's um, likesketch.
Sketching dolls, you know, thosewooden dolls that you use to
practice sketching with topractice, posing and technicals
at home, which I think it's a,it's a great tip.
I wanted to ask becauseoftentimes photographers, they
listen to us as we're justtalking, sometimes we talk about

(30:34):
gear and we talk about all thesenice new things.
And oftentimes new photographersjust don't have the gear or the
resources that most professionalphotographers do.
Can you tell me maybe early on,in your career, maybe a time
where you really just had tomake do with what you had to get
a job done, even though itwasn't maybe the best, possible

(30:55):
way to do it.
you still made it work.

A hundred percent.
So I, I will, say perfectlyconfidently that whatever gear
you have right now to thelistener, whatever gear you have
is all that you need right now.
and I say that with such, beliefbecause It's so easy to be

(31:18):
chasing the gear and look, I getit.
I feel it too.
and quite honestly, I lovebuying gear.
I really do.
But, and I say this with a huge,but huge caveat, I'm able to.
Because I can afford it becausephotography and has been my
career and my, and mylivelihood.

(31:38):
I've achieved the financialsuccess in my photography
business to be able to say, if Iwant to get that camera, I'm
going to get it just because Iwant to play around.
Now, as a side note, my passionand obsession is.
So the cameras are much moreaffordable to get now, as
opposed to buying like thelatest Sony or Canada or Nikon
or whatever, but, uh, I digress.

(31:59):
whatever it is that you have,like cameras today, even the
most like simple, the most basicof cameras, are so, so much more
advanced than anything we hadbefore.
even top of the line five yearsago, like the most, like 600
camera today is better than the6, 000 camera five years ago.
And if photographers weresuccessful with like top of the

(32:22):
line five years ago, damn wellsure you can be successful with
bottom line today.
So I guess I, I say that to saylike, Don't chase the gear.
Don't look for more gear.
Learn whatever you have.
It doesn't matter what you havebecause the camera only does
what you tell it to do.
And so the camera itself is notgoing to make a difference in

(32:43):
the photographs that you make.
The most important part, and Iforget who it was, it may have
been Ansel that said this, butthe most important part of the
camera is the six inches behindit.
Us, right?
You.
And so don't worry aboutwhatever you have.
If you have a kit lens, perfect.
If you have a rebel, awesome.
If you have whatever, whateveryou have is perfect.

(33:06):
If you don't have a flash, noproblem.
Like learn with what you haveand it will probably bring you.
A few years of growth as acreative, once you start to feel
the actual limitation of thatgear, when you're like, no, no,
no, I, I literally couldn't getthis without, just next lens or
whatever it is, that's when youstart to consider, but I'm,

(33:28):
almost willing to bet that like,Most of us are not there, even
myself.
Like I'm right now I shoot foodquick side note, I shoot Fuji.
I've got the 56 F one, two, andI've got the 50 F two weather
seal.
And I have both for a reason.
Cause I use them for differentthings.
Now the 50 F one came out andit's like, Ooh, I'm thinking, Oh
heck yeah.
50 F and it's weather sealed.
I'm all about the 50 F1.

(33:49):
I'm all about the F1.
Um, it's weather sealed.
Beautiful.
Okay, Boca.
All right.
the Boca balls are like point0.0 0, 0 0 1 millimeters bigger.
So it looks a little bit moresexy if you do a direct side by
side studio comparison, which wenever do, by the way.
So I'm trying to justify whetherI just sell both those lenses
and get the one and yeah, I meanlike that's easy to justify.

(34:11):
Wow.
You know, I probably would savea little bit of money and I.
And then we go through thesestories.
I don't need it.
I'm not going to make adifference.
I don't need it.
Will I do it because I want it?
Maybe.
But I'll only do it because Ican afford it.
Not because I, you know, I'm notgoing to go and get a loan for
it.
I'm not going to go and like,you know, not pay myself this
year because, because I need tomake that, that move.
And I, and I do see that.

(34:31):
I see so many photographers thatare like, they don't pay
themselves.
Because they just keep spendingmoney on gear and it's like,
man, if you look at your chartof accounts at the end of the
year, and if you've spent moreon care than you've paid
yourself, there's somethingwrong.
Um, I guess all that just tosay, like, Don't worry about the
gear, man.
Like just do whatever you canshoot with whatever you have.
If you have an iPhone, use that,learn on that.
you can probably spend a fewyears mastering the art of

(34:53):
photography on just your

iPhone.

Now I'm not saying you're going to go shoot
a wedding with it, but it'slike, we're talking about that,
growth, right.
As an artist, as a creative, andthen as an entrepreneur, you can
get pretty darn far with likethe simplest gear.
So don't chase gear.

I was in the same boat as you with the 56 1.
2.
And then I realized that justlike the size of it I didn't
want to use it like around thehouse and just photograph my
kids because it was just kind ofbig and cumbersome and then I I
played this game with myselfthat was like I could get the
two but is it going to be asgood you know how much light am
I going to be losing but at theend of the day I mean none of

(35:29):
that stuff matters it's likeit's like what is it it's like
two thirds of a stop that you'relosing it's not much at all and
then it's much smaller and thefact that now I can you.
I just shoot more with that 50millimeter F2.
And even though on paper, 56 1.
2.
It enables me to shoot more,which ultimately is what we want

(35:50):
as photographers, right?

A hundred percent.
As long

as you got what you need to shoot, that's
all that you want.
Now, I want to get back to thiswhole film thing that you're
doing right now, because as yousaid, you know, you've been
shooting for 15 years, you'vebeen doing this now that you
picked up this film camera, Iwant to know like, Is there a
goal to it?
Is it strictly a creativitything?
And if it is, what are youtrying to express?
Does any of this make sense?
Cause, once again, on paper,there's no reason why we should

(36:15):
be photographing

this.
Sure.
No, 100%.
100%.
I mean, and this, this is thefunny part.
Is like, my trajectory or thepath has, if you follow all of
it so far, I mean, I got into itbecause I wanted to be a
business person, not because Iwanted to be a photographer,
right?
Like, if you follow all of it,it's literally like ass
backwards from what like youwould typically do.
That's true.
so I, at the time when I firstdiscovered film, which is about
two years ago, I had never shotfilm before.

(36:37):
Never.
Like even, I mean, maybe when Iwas a kid, I'd grab my parents
point and shoot, but it wasnever like shooting film.
Never with

intentional.
I've

never shot with film.
So it's like, yet for at thetime, for 13 years, every single
time I had shot, every time I'dpicked up my camera outside of
like just documenting my kids.
I'm being paid to do it.
Like I'm being paid to be aphotographer and I'm always
shooting for other people.
Now I built my business to apoint where I got to shoot what
I wanted to shoot and how Iwanted to shoot and people paid

(37:04):
me handsomely for it.
So that's great.
And I'm, and I'm very gratefuland thankful for that, but I
never had this opportunity tolike explore photography for me.
Never, never.
I've always been a full timeprofessional photographer.
The camera is what puts food onthe table.
And so when I first got thislike little intrigue of film, I

(37:26):
was like, Oh, this is different.
and then just like.
having a camera and like beingintentional by choosing a film
stock and then physicallyloading it into a camera and
just this whole like mechanicalprocess with, winding the film
and doing all these things.
I develop all my film too.
I do darkroom printing myselftoo.

(37:47):
So doing all these things

dove right in.

Oh, I mean dove right in.
Um, but like.
Being involved in a very tactileway gives me a different way to
see, learn, express throughphotography that I'd never have.
I'd never had before.
I'd never explored that before.
and then even going beyond that,like the story, like the

(38:10):
permanence, the story ofshooting on film, you know, this
idea that like when, when youpress the shutter, this piece of
emulsion, Changes forever.
it forever is impact by thelight that exists in this very,
split second of a moment.
It's one 500th of a second.
This piece of film changesphysically.
Physically changes never to beundone.

(38:32):
And then you can make somethingreal out of that all the way up
to like printing in a dark roomand you see this thing appear in
front of you and you're like, Imade this like free of
technology, free of computersand bits and bytes and zeros and
ones.
Like I made this with light witha piece of light and this will
never ever be undone.

(38:53):
Like, that is just a beautifulway of seeing what we do.
so I'm not doing it for clients.
I mean, I've done it.
I've actually had quite a numberof clients that have like seen
my own exploration of it on thepersonal side.
And they're like, yeah, we know,we want you to shoot film for
us.
which is like, cool.
Cause it's now seeing spill intolike my professional work.

(39:13):
but I'm just doing it for funand because I really enjoy it.
and it gives, So many other waysto explore.
I mean, you can buy cameras forlike a couple hundred dollars,
like really good film camerasfor a couple hundred dollars.
Um, and they're, they're afreaking blast to play with.
So like, it's great.
It fulfills a different side ofme.
that I otherwise just didn'thave digitally.

it's interesting hearing you say that
because I hear new photographersspeaking about their brand new
entry level like digital camerasin that same way like this new
creative passion becauseoftentimes, you know, when you
get that camera, you're notcoming from a world of
creativity, right?
You have.
So I love hearing that passioncome back into you and that
excitement.

(39:54):
100% That is so much fun.
That's it

though, right?
Raymond is like, it, reignitedthis fire that I have because
I've been a full timeprofessional photographer for 15
years.
It reignited this fire thatlike, admittedly after 15 years,
like not that I got tired ofphotography.
It's not that I felt uninspiredbecause I love what I do.
And I love to photograph for myclients, but like, For my own,

(40:18):
my own creative pursuit.
It reignited that amateurmindset again in me.
Yeah.
And, and I haven't had that in15 years.
So it was just, it's been such ajoy to continue to explore that.

Very cool.
Well, Brian, Oh, side note.
When I was doing research forthis episode, I realized that
you're the only Brian who's everbeen on the beginner photography
podcast.
So on top of the like this hugelist of accolades that you have
yourself now you can add that toit as well.
But before I let you go, can youlet those listening right now
know where they can find youbecause as you said,

(40:50):
photographer, you also host apodcast 450 episodes.
Congratulations on that as wellas running sprout studio.
So can you just let people knowwhere they can learn more about
you and everything that you do.

Yeah, for sure.
Thank you, Raymond.
a couple places, I guess, if youwant to learn more about Sprout,
then you can go to get Sproutstudio.
com or just Google Sproutstudio.
You'll find us.
if you want to dive more intothe business education that we
have, if you go to that samewebsite, we have a community
button at the top of the page.
You can dive into podcasts.
We have courses, we have pricingcalculators.

(41:22):
We have hundreds of articles onanything you can think of to do
with the business ofphotography.
So you can hop in there.
if you like podcasts, which, uh,you do, you're listening to a
podcast right now, um, then youcan just find us.
It's called the business ofphotography.
You can find us pretty muchwherever you listen to podcasts.
That's, I guess, mostly if youwant to connect on clubhouse, if
you're on clubhouse, that's likethe coolest and latest

(41:45):
obsession.
So come find me over there.

All right, huge, huge thank you to Brian
for coming on the podcast.
I want to share one action itemwith you.
One thing from today's episodethat will get you shooting and
become a better photographer.
So Brian talked a lot about theimportance of story, right?
We all love story, telling astory with an image, I think is
one of the major reasons why weget into photography.

(42:09):
Maybe we saw an image that had apowerful story.
Or maybe we see stories that wejust want to capture.
So, today's action item is tocreate a photographic story.
Don't worry, this isn't going totake like, 6 month project.
This could take 15, 20 minutes.
I want you to tell the story ofyour dog playing with their toy.
Tell the story of your morningroutine.

(42:31):
Tell the story of you mowingyour lawn.
Don't overthink this.
Quickly brainstorm like tenphotos or so that would tell
that story and then go out andshoot it.
Generally afterwards you'regonna have one to two photos
that you really love and that iswhat I want you to share in the
free and amazing beginnerphotography podcast community so
that we can talk about it.
You can join right now for freeby heading over to

(42:55):
beginnerphotopod.
com forward slash group.
And I hope to see your storythere.
So that is it for today.
Until next week, remember themore that you shoot today, the
better of a photographer youwill be tomorrow.
Talk soon.

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