Reclaim Your Joy For Photography with Dave Mihaly

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dave Mihaly (00:00):
Have fun with it.

(00:01):
I don't want to say lower yourexpectations, but maybe adjust
your expectations to realizethat not every shot has to be
perfect.
You want to express somethingand you can express something in
a shot that's maybe nottechnically perfect.
I think people should not get sohung up on taking the best
technical picture.
Take the best picture for you.
And if that is just, if it, isyour expression, if it's what

(00:23):
you wanted to capture, whetherthe picture is technically
perfect or not, I think you'vegot something there.

Raymond Hatfield (00:31):
Hey, welcome to the beginner photography
podcast.
I am your host, RaymondHatfield.
And today I'm chatting with theold camera guy, Dave Mahale, all
about bringing fun back tophotography.
But first the beginnerphotography podcast is brought
to you by cloud spot with cloudspot.
You can impress your clientswith a beautiful gallery that is
easy to view, share, anddownload on any device.

(00:54):
You can control image size at awatermark and download limits.
So grab your free foreveraccount today over at
deliverphotos.
com and only upgrade when youare ready.
Now, story time here.
A few years ago, I was in Kansascity to shoot a wedding, and the
morning of a wedding morning ofa wedding is always kind of not
stressful, but like there'sthis, what do I do with my time?

(01:17):
You know, especially if itstarts a little bit later.
Do I go out?
Do I prep?
Do I just, sit and do nothing?
So typically what I do is I'llgo down to the hotel gym and
just try to get some steps in,move my body.
Cause you never know what thewedding day is gonna bring.
And at this point, I had alreadystopped booking future weddings.
I was feeling burnt out, postCOVID wedding photography for me

(01:38):
never felt more like a job thanit did then.
And I really wanted to get backto when photography was a
creative pursuit, something fun.
So in that headspace, I remembersearching Apple podcasts for, I
don't know, photography projector something like that.
And an interview with today'sguest, Dave, on the Embrace the
Grain podcast popped up.

(02:00):
I loved it.
I then found Dave on and Ireally enjoyed his, non
influencer the whole thing was.
How pro slowdown and have funwith photography it was.
How non pretentious it was.
In the majority of his videos,Dave just uses a point and

(02:21):
shoot.
And he brings that, that energyto you, use a point and shoot if
you want.
And since then, I find that I,I'm drawn to his videos, I'll
watch his videos when I needsome sort of like reset on
photography.
Maybe after a new camera comesout and there's all these
reviews that make it look likethis camera is, all be all best
camera that could ever exist.
You have to drop all your moneyon it right now.

(02:44):
Anyway, that wedding in KansasCity, I remember a few of those
images, but what I remember mostis that that next morning, I
woke up, before dawn and drovedowntown and I just walked the
streets of Kansas City as, asthe sun rose, with my X100V at
the time and I was just takingphotos.
I later found out that it was avery sketchy part of town and
that, I should be thanking mylucky stars that I'm here

(03:05):
talking to you today.
But hey, ignorance is bliss,right?
But it was during that walk thatI made my own attempt at a Dave
Mahale old camera guy video.
Which I'll actually link to inthe show notes if you want to
check it out.
But Dave changed something in methat day, and I hope today
you'll be able to pull somethingout from our conversation that

(03:26):
will change something withinyou.
That was kind of a long intro,but, in today's interview,
here's what you're gonna learn.
We're gonna learn how to lovenon instant gratification when
it comes to photography, how nothaving the newest gear can help
you focus on what's important inyour images, and cheap ways to
dip your toes into filmphotography.
Oh, and if you stick around tothe end, I'm actually going to

(03:46):
share how you can win a brandnew film camera that I will be
giving away.
Not bad, right?
So with that, let's go ahead andget on into today's interview
with Dave Mahale.
Dave, my first question for youis, I want to know when did you
know that photography first wasgoing to play an important role
in your life?

I think I first realized that in the year 2000
for a couple reasons, both ofwhich actually have to do with
my mom's death.
And that might sound a littleweird, but my mom passed away
October 28th, 2000.
And, when it came time to getphotographs together for a
memorial slideshow at thefuneral home, This is sad.
There just weren't that manyphotographs to choose from.

(04:28):
the first reason I, I kind ofrealized at that time that
photography was probably goingto play a more of a major role
in my life is I didn't want tosee that happen again.
For instance, like when my dadpassed, other family members, it
just really kind of stressed theimportance to me that you need
to photograph the ones you love.
And that became much more of amission.
In the year 2000, again, aftermy mom's passing, and it was a

(04:50):
non negotiable, so, it's easiernow, obviously, with, iPhone,
smartphone in your pocket, youcan document everything.
And, that wasn't really thecase, again, when I was growing
up.
Full disclosure, I was born in1969, so, when I started
photography, film photographywas just photography, there was
not a digital thing.
And, there's a little bit moreeffort involved as far as you
know capturing those familymemories all worth it.

(05:11):
And again with my mom's passingI realized that probably more
than ever I think the secondreason again is also related to
my mom's passing and that is wewere pretty close and when she
died, I think I realized evenmore now looking back.
I was devastated was shattered Iguess is another way to say it

(05:32):
and I became despondent and Iwill tell you Raymond it was a
dark place for me Photography,at that time really became more
of just photographing prettythings but a therapy for me in a
way because it gave me somethingto do Something to do with my
hands, specifically with filmphotography, loading the film,
just that tactile sensation,feeling of accomplishment

(05:53):
because when you develop yourfilm and you see those negatives
for the first time, it's kind ofa magic moment, at least for me
it is.
And it gave me something to um,look forward to, which was hard
to see at that time, honestly,again, because I was, it was
pretty depressed.
And gave me hope so I realizedagain in 2000 the power of

(06:14):
photography And how I don'tthink it's overstated to say it
really did help save my life atthat time And that's that's
really when I realized

Wow.
I appreciate you sharing thatstory.
That's very emotionally.
That's, that's very close.
I guess, how do you go fromlooking at the few photos of
your mother that you have to, towanting to dive in?
Because I know that today, if Iwere to look at your YouTube
channel, there's not a lot ofportraits.
It's a lot of photo walks.
It's a lot of going outside.
So, talk to me about that.
Those early days, you said thatphotography became a bit of a

(06:43):
therapy for you.

It did and I think to some degree honestly it still
is.
My tendency my nature is that Ihave a hard time sitting still
so like to be out and about andI like to get my steps in every
day and that becomes moreimportant as I get older and
just carrying a camera with mebecame part of that in that I
can get my steps in I canexplore the world around me it's

(07:06):
kind of funny you said thatabout The portraits and how if
you look at my portfolio if youlook at Instagram feeds youtube
for that matter You're exactlyright.
There's not a preponderance ofportraits on there but I think
part of it is it's a couplethings but one thing is I think
it's just One of those thingsthat I don't maybe present to
the world as much becausethere's, the real world you and

(07:30):
then there's the onlinepresence.
And as you know, those twothings can be wildly different
sometimes.
So it might be just a case ofsome of that more personal work
that maybe I don't share all thetime online.
Although I have done that morerecently, like with my wife, for
example.
Sometimes with my kids,especially my older son who's in
college now.
So I do think I'm sharing morethan now.
The other reason I'm sharing afew more portraits now than I

(07:52):
used to is, I am lucky enough tobe in a community where we have
local walks fairly frequently.
Matter of fact, we've got onecoming up this Saturday.
There's another studio sessionthat some friends of mine are
putting together for Sunday.
So I've got a couple thingscoming up this weekend.
So part of it was just maybe notthe opportunity.
Of course.
You know 2020 the world kind ofground to a halt and didn't do a

(08:14):
lot of portraits uh, for acouple years

Let's do a little bit of program, uh, The,
the picture of a, a, a, a, a, a,a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a,

(08:37):
a, a, a, a, a, a, a.
Let's do it.

a good quality camera.
it's not the sharpest tool inthe shed or sharpest lens for
that matter.
But that was part of his charmtoo.
And one of the, I think one ofthe big things about it was as
far as what made me use it sooften is that it could slip in
your pocket.
So you literally could take iteverywhere with you.
So when I had it with meeverywhere, and again, this is,
before I had a smartphone,certainly because it was 2000,

(09:04):
and, it was just veryaccessible.
And so I started takingpictures, and at the time, the
place where I got it from wascalled the Lumographic Society
International.
It's just called Lumography now.
They had kind of a set of 10rules, which are sort of tongue
in cheek, because rule number 10is there are no rules, and just
do your own thing, they reallystress the importance of just
taking your camera with you,documenting everything, shoot

(09:27):
from the hip, just tryexperimental stuff.
And I think really from then,that's what started me in just
trying to find the fun side ofSo we've, You know, we talked
about, it got a little bit deepthere and heavy with uh, with
talking about documenting yourfamily, those loved ones around
you, which I think again, tothis day is super important, but
I think it's just as important,at least to me, to find the fun

(09:50):
in photography, find the joy inphotography, and, I think it's
okay to take your photographyseriously, but I don't like to
take myself too seriously, so,just the joy and fun of
photography is as important tome as just documenting the
things we talked about before,too.

Yeah, that's a good distinction and I like how
you said, we can take ourphotography seriously and not
take ourselves seriously.
That's something that,especially for photographers who
I hear who want to get intoweddings, they're nervous that
maybe they're not professionalenough, quote unquote, or they
don't have the right, justpersonality for that.
But, uh, you can, you like, youcan absolutely get into it.
But I, want to go back to,talking about this, this

(10:32):
transition, cause it seems like2000 was a very pivotal year for
you as far as understanding theimportance of photography goes.
Starting off with only, youknow, it sounds like one or two
cameras at that time.
And right now I see this wholeshelf.
I mean, I'm guessing 30, 40,maybe 50 cameras there behind
you.

going.
It's about 150 because there's acouple shelves You can't see in
my messy studio from the viewthat you have so it's it's

That's hilarious.
Ha, ha, What was it aboutphotography, because you said
that you weren't really into itthat much before the passing of
your mother.
What was it about going out andshooting?
Was it the process?
Was it the images that you werecreating?
Was it just a new hobby?
What was it about photographythat made you say, you know
what, one day I'm going to havehundreds of cameras.

didn't know back then I was gonna have hundreds
of cameras, but I think it's alittle bit of all of the above
of what you just said I'vealways been a very visually
oriented person I mean some ofmy earliest memories are just
doodling faces all over my mom'sand my grandma's Uh, so, I mean,
that's, you know, I would havebeen very young at that point,
probably even before elementaryschool.

(11:39):
So I've always been visuallyoriented.
Later on, I took up painting, alittle bit of oil, mostly
acrylics, that sort of thing.
So visual arts have always beenkind of my thing.
And, then in 2000, again, waskind of surfing internet as one
does, came across this Lomocamera, which again was kind of
the gateway camera that got mestarted.

(12:00):
I just realized that a differentoutlet for those, For that
expression, it's still visualarts, but, you don't have to
mess with turpentine and toxicpaints and that sort of thing.
for me, and maybe this harksback to my mom's passing too,
which, you know, we keep comingback to that.
But photography for me is a wayto make the impermanent
permanent.

(12:20):
And I think I felt that morewith my mom's passing.
And goes back to that again.
I think there were really acouple kinds of grief.
The obvious grief of losing mymom, but then the secondary
grief of knowing that I'm notgonna have the chance to take
any more pictures of her was,was a whole other kind of grief
that, that kind of hit me.
So, again, just a differentexpression.

(12:42):
job, my day job to this day, I'man eye doctor, I'm an
optometrist, so you can't getmore visually oriented than
literally, Checking people'seyes every day.
Visual arts have always been away for me to kind of again
express myself But everythingyou said It was a new hobby
trying something new because atthat point I was probably
getting a little bit bored withthe drawing and the painting
that sort of thing and some ofthe mess you see behind me is

(13:05):
still art supplies that Ihaven't used in a few years But
just a, again a different way toexpress myself a cleaner way you
mentioned, you know, what aboutit is, the process is definitely
part of it.
You mentioned before, again,that tactile process of looking
at the film, looking at thenegatives.
And I will tell you, I mean, Ilike photography in general.
I'm not one of these filmphotography purists that says,

(13:28):
you know, shoot film, notmegapixels.
no beef with digital photographyat all.
Matter of fact, I'm going to usemy digital camera.
come up pretty soon, my niece isgraduating high school, so I'm
going to take some more picturesof her.
And my son is as well, so takepictures of him as well.
for that kind of thing, digitalphotography definitely has its
place, and I think it's, in someways, a lot better than film
photography.
I think you could argue.

(13:49):
I know other people that arefilm photography purists, that
again, they don't touch digitalcamera, but, I don't have my own
darkroom, so I develop my ownfilm,

Yeah.

digital file, and again, some people, Just hold
their nose at that.
And I, again, I have no problemwith that at all.
Post processing, same thing.
Some people that I have comeinto contact say, well, if
you're a film photographer, youshouldn't edit your photos at
all.
That's not right.
That's, you might as well justshoot digital if you're going to
use Photoshop or one of theseother programs.
And that's just never entered mymind the reason I know it's in

(14:41):
truth.
I don't edit film Very I don't Ido I do light edits, but it's
not because I'm morally opposedto editing my film photography
It's more like I just don't havethe patience for it quite
honestly, and that's one of thereasons I use a computer as part
of my job a couple screens everyday, and so less I have to stare
at computer screens when I'mhome, I think, the better.

Yeah,

have no beef with editing.
Again, I just don't have theattention span or the patience
for it.
The amount of editing I do,honestly, is I'll straighten my
horizons, because I'm terribleat that.
So, that's the first thing I do,

same yep,

I adjust the contrast, typically.
And then, if there are anyegregious dust spots or streaks
from the developer, that sort ofthing, I might, the bandaid tool
or clone those out somewhat, butthat's about it.
Because again, that's the wholepoint of me shooting film is I
try to get as much in camera,get the look that I want.
And and part of that with filmphotography in particular is

(15:38):
just choosing the right film,right?
Because you've got so manydifferent looks with all these
different stocks with this blackand white color, film, negative
film, then you've gotexperimental films, which I like
to have fun with experimentalfilms too, which a lot of people
see as just, a gimmick.
it is a gimmick, but I like thegimmick.
So I have, again, I don't, lookdown on that kind of stuff too.

(15:58):
Again, I just, with filmphotography, do like the
process.
And I think part of the reason Igot into it in 2000, again,
going back to your question issimplicity of the camera that I
had, it was uh, an automaticcamera.
it was not autofocus, it's scalefocus or zone focus, some people
really can't stand, but afterusing it for so many years, I

(16:20):
got pretty good at, at guessing.
It also, it's from Russia, so itwas, list, every, the distances
on the scale were, listed inmeters.
I'm a dumb American, so I don'tthink in meters.
So, I I had to say, oh, 0.
8 meters, that's 3 feet ish.
Alright, 1.
5 meters, we'll call that 5 feetor so.
3 meters was another settingthere, that becomes 10 feet in

(16:42):
my brain.
Then infinity is infinity whereyou're using meters or feet.
So I think part of the reason Igot into film photography
heavily again, back there in2000 was just the accessibility
of that camera.
I think if I had an all manualcamera that was, super involved,
and if I had to have a hugeunderstanding of exposure

(17:03):
triangle, which I didn't backthen, quite honestly.
I don't know as I would havegotten into it.
So again, I used the termgateway camera before, but
that's exactly what it was.
Now, all that stuff came laterwith, learning more of the
settings, shooting a man, buteven to this day and some of
more, of my newer cameras, Ihave no shame in using the
aperture priority settings.
If it has it and my dirty littlesecret, maybe hot take is.

(17:25):
I use program mode too, so, andyou know what, in some
situations, you're, uh, got akid running around, or an
animal, a dog, or something likethat, and you're trying to catch
autofocus, and auto exposure,it's okay.
I've given myself permission todo that.

I've given my that's such an important thing.
Yeah, in a world.
In an art form where there's somany rules, it's important to
find something to give yourselfpermission to make it a whole
lot easier.
Talk to me about, we were justtalking about learning manual
there, shooting a manual.
I want to know, when you gotinto photography, did you jump
straight in, go to the SLRroute, learn all that you could,

(18:01):
and then the reason why I askthat is because when I look at
your YouTube channel, nowforgive me if this is just the
things that you're sharing.
There's a lot of point and shootcameras.
There's a lot of, a set it andforget it type film photography,
that I think, for one, it's alot more accessible.
It's a lot easier to get into.
But I wonder if you missanything from learning manual,

(18:22):
or if now this becomes just a,More enjoyable form of film
photography.
Um, Um,

camera, in 2000 or 9 and a 99.
Then going into 2000 I startedusing it more and it was really
my solo main rig until about 10years later, 2009, I got a new
boss at work and he gave me hiswife's old Olympus OM 2 so
manual, SLR manual everything.

(19:12):
when he gave that to me, I'mlike, oh, this camera is cool.
I have no idea how to use it.
So, I figured, I better figurethis out.
And again, I'm largely selftaught, so, as one does, you go
to YouTube University and try tosort things out and get little
clues here and there.
But, there's no substitute forjust getting it out in the
field.
Putting in the reps and figuringit out on your own and that's
exactly what I did So for thefirst 10 years of my

(19:35):
photography, it really was justthat simple zone focus camera
and then in 2009 that about 10years later with that uh, SLR
and at the time 2009 filmphotography was, I don't want to
say it was going through acrisis, but maybe that's fair to
say.
But the upside of that was thatwhen I would go to a thrift
store, I could get these littlepoint and shoot film cameras for

(20:00):
90 cents, 2.
99 if I was feeling extra fancy.
so a couple three bucks, you'regonna get a film camera that,
and some of these are actuallypretty sought after now, like,
something like a Yashica T4,

Wow, for 3.

Yeah, for three bucks, no joke.
and I did the same thing.
I actually had two OlympusStylus Epics.
One I got for two dollars, onewas I splurged and spent three
dollars on at the thrift store.
But again, 2009 2010, rightafter I got this SLR, you could
do that.
So, that SLR really kind ofopened me up to, oh, there's
other cameras out there.
Maybe I'll just look around andsee what's out there.

(20:33):
And, that kind of ended up with150 cameras.
But, uh, again, for two or threebucks, only out a few bucks you
can try different cameras.
I certainly wouldn't have thismany cameras if I went out and
tried to buy film cameras today.
because I would grow, go brokepretty quick.
But back in the day, you get allof these, again, fairly nice
cameras.
Now again, some of those, likeyou said, are point and shoots.

(20:54):
Some of the new cameras I get,I've been fortunate enough to
have, some companies send me newcameras.
So, they're new, they're notvintage cameras, but they
function a lot like, really likedisposable cameras.
They're basically, in my eyes,reloadable, disposable cameras

Mm hmm.

Do you just like the experience?
I do because when you don't haveto fiddle around with a bunch of
settings.
It really frees you up toconcentrate on composition and
subject matter and that's reallythe stuff that appeals to me.
So I'm not a highly technicalphotographer I mean, I look at
it this way.
I have one, what I wouldconsider a nice camera.
I have a Pentax 6 7.
Excellent camera, medium format,very highly regarded.

(21:34):
I got that nice, I think it's af2.
105 lens

Mm, beautiful.
Beautiful.

if you miss the focus

heh.

horribly ugly

Transcription by ESO.
by

about a hundred pounds Not quite a hundred
pounds, but it's heavy.
in the wintertime, like it isright now for us in the Midwest
with all the snow and cold andsingle digit temperatures and
below.
below zero wind chills, it doesnot, that big metal beast does
not operate well in the snow.
So I'm not going to take acamera out like that.
Now you give me a plastic littlereloaded, reloadable disposable,

(22:20):
it's going to function fine.
There is one button to push andit's a simple shutter and it's
going to work when it's 10degrees outside.
But again, it really frees me upto concentrate on composition.
So again, I have the capacity, Ican shoot a manual, something
like Pentax 6 7.
Bye.

Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.

just not my thing.
So by far what I shoot the mostare, as you mentioned, a lot of
point and shoots because they'revery accessible.
They're easy.
and they're cameras that justkind of get out of your way, so
again, you can take pictures ofwhat you want to take and in a
fairly efficient manner.
Now they're not going to giveyou that control that you have
with a more professional camera,a one that you can set manual

(23:20):
settings on.
And again, those have theirplace too.
If I'm going to just set up anddo landscape stuff that I've
been wanting to shoot andthere's no time crunch, that
sort of thing.
You know, I might take out oneof my more manual cameras, but
the dispose ones again, havetheir place too.
So I by far shoot those, most.
And I will tell you, there issomething that kind of bridges

(23:41):
the gap between those two.
And I have a bunch of Canon EOSfilm cameras, and so those were
the autofocus ones that cameout.
Well, they, there's been a bunchof them.
so they were popular 80s, 90s,into the 2000s a little bit.
But the thing I like about thoseis those can be as manual or as
automated as you want them tobe, because if you want to shoot

(24:03):
it manually, great.
Put it on m.
Right?
Same thing for the lenses.
They are autofocus lenses, butthey all have manual settings on
them.
So if you want to shoot manualfocus, manual exposure, manual
everything, you got it.
You can do it.
If you want to shoot autofocus,which I do again almost all the
time because of my eyes, I'llkeep it on autofocus and you
have that capacity as well.

(24:23):
Same thing with all thedifferent modes.
If you want shutter priority,it's on there.
If you want aperture priority,which is what I shoot the most,
it's on there.
If you want program, knockyourself out.
It's on there.
But if you want manual it's onthere, too.
So those people ask a lot oftimes.
Well, what is the best camera Ishould get, as a beginner?
What is the best film camera Ishould get?
You know, what should be myfirst entree into film
photography And it's popular apopular sentiment is Oh get one

(24:46):
of those classic film cameraslike a Pentax K1000.
and I'm not knocking that cameraIt's a great camera and very
popular very pricey Looksfantastic because he got this
old metal beast.
And again, mechanical it'sgreat, but I think what
sometimes gets overlooked isthese, other ones, because
they're plasticky.
So they don't look all they'regreat.
They don't have the sexy curvesthat you're going to get on some

(25:08):
of the other mechanical cameras.
they don't look like you'reshooting a film camera, quite
honestly, that they look likeearly digital cameras.
But, to that point, that'sanother thing I like these Canon
EOS lenses or cameras is becauseyou can use the same lenses on
the film bodies.
And the digital bodies.
So you get more bang for yourbuck.
And that's what I do.
Again, I'm referenced before howI'm gonna be shooting some

(25:29):
senior portraits from my familymembers.
I'll take both and I could justswap one lens, back and forth
between digital and camera,digital camera bodies and film
camera bodies.
But again, I think somethinglike that is a great resource to
start with, because you're alittle scared of starting or
trying film photography, You canstart by using program mode and

(25:50):
there's not a lot for you to do.
You can use program mode.
You can use autofocus it's, it'svery non intimidating, very
accessible.
As you said before, then as youprogress, learn a little bit
more and maybe want to branchout and have more control over
your settings, more control overyour depth of field and your
final image.

We've got a full script.
And that was once.
And we were like, what's this?
Because he's a native speaker.
And he's now, he's a nativespeaker.
And, he, he's now a nativespeaker.
And he's a native speaker.
So, I'm going to make it now,uh, Because I know, I'm not

(26:33):
trying to make you a maniac.
I'm just doing this on purpose.

I guess I don't care about that as much, but I
think they're kind of the unsungheroes of film photography.

You know, it's funny, I have a buddy who had a,
uh, it was a Eos Rebel G, Ithink it was, or something.

That was my first one, actually.

Okay, yeah.
Well, I saw it, he brought it atrip up here once and I saw it
and I thought this looks likethe cheapest film camera you
could buy.
As you mentioned, it'splasticky, it just doesn't look
like it's gonna withstand muchat all, like it's gonna fall
apart any day now.
And he left it at my house.
He went back to Texas, hecompletely forgot it, and I
spent the next few months,shooting with it.

(27:14):
And, being a previous Canonshooter myself, I had some
various lenses that I could tryon this camera, and it was an
absolute blast.
You know, it was amazing.
It was so much fun, and we tooka family trip out to California
a few years ago.
I brought like, I think Iprobably brought four film
cameras and the photos that Igot from that camera were hands

(27:36):
down my favorite, mostly becauseof the aperture control.
All the other ones, well, exceptfor the K1000, were essentially
point and shoots.
But, and then I looked on KEH,it's like 50 bucks or something.
Like, it's a relatively cheapcamera.
So, you just got to make sureUh, contacts are not all
corroded and gross and, andworthless.
But I don't think you're gonnahave much issue with, KEH, in

(27:57):
that department.
But, wanna ask a question thatI'm sure a lot of people are
thinking right now, which is,you got into film photography
when it was just photography.
That was all that there was.
Digital came, you're stillshooting film, right?
Why not make the full transitioninto digital and why stick with,
which at a moment in time, 2008,2009, 2010 seemed like it was

(28:20):
going to go away forever.

Yeah, probably for the same reason I vinyl on my
stereo cassettes even Got acouple 8 tracks too.
So I'm really dating myself hereas far as my age but part of the
reason is because I still canbecause I realized that film
photography did not go away likeI said, there were some Darker
days when Fuji was discontinuinganother film stock and then

(28:45):
Kodak would get rid of this butit is not like that anymore, but
it did look a little bit darkfor a while there.
So I figured, you know what, Ireally like this and I'm going
to do it for as long as I can,because I realized that at some
point I might not be able to doit anymore.
But that point never came, atleast up to now.

Yeah.

again, it might seem like a strange thing to
say, but I do it because I stillcan.
what I started with.
So again, I don't, I'm not oneof these people that says, Oh,
film photography is so muchbetter than digital photography.
I don't have that view at all.
And again, I use my phone allthe time for digital
photography.
I've got a Canon SL1, verybasic, SLR, DSLR from about a

(29:26):
dozen years ago.
It's, pretty old, but that's theone I'm using to shoot again,
senior portraits with, Again,for me, it's what I started
with, so it's what I'm morecomfortable with, so it's not a
matter of, I don't think film isbetter, I started with it, I
have more experience with it,and since it did remain
available, guess, I didn't haveto make the transition to

(29:47):
digital.
So again, I shoot digital whenit makes sense to for me.
But again, part of the reason Istuck with it is, I mentioned
before, just that tactileexperience of, loading the film.
Choosing the film you want toload because again, that has
dramatic effects on what your isgoing to be.
And you can do that with digitalobviously.
But with digital, at least myexperience has been, you make

(30:09):
those choices mostly in post.
Mostly post processing.
Whereas in film, you kind ofhave to think a little bit and
do it ahead of time.
That's especially true with alot of the point and shoots you
see behind me because You don'tset the ISO on those.
You don't set anything on those.
So you've got to look outside.
Oh, it's pretty cloudy today.
I think I'll, maybe I'll shoot,I'll load some 400 speed film.
or, you know, it's bright andsunny.

(30:30):
I'm gonna use a roll of Ektar100 because I don't want a super
high speed because I know it'sgoing to overexpose the shots
because with those, they'reessentially glorified box
cameras where you have, oneshutter speed, And That's it.
So there's no meter to actuallyassess the light situation.
So, like doing things again, premore than post.
And again with film, that's whatyou get to do.

(30:51):
You shoot, you pick your filmahead of time.
You load it.
Just, again, just feeling it.
Developing the film.
Touching the negatives.
Negatives are, you do it right,if you develop it right.
Wash it well.
You've got, very archival.
So, that's one thing that I'mold enough to have seen, digital
files on my computer.
I to have, like, a zip disk,which, you know, younger people

(31:13):
don't know what that is anymore.
CDs, DVDs, they're still around,but a lot of things live in the
cloud now.
And, at least with physicalmedia, physical digital media.
The jury's still out to think onhow long that's gonna last, and
that's less the case withphysical negatives, because film
photography has been around fora long time.
And again, not saying it'sbetter than digital, but I'm

(31:34):
saying there's definitely moreof a track record, just if you
look at the number of years,there's no comparison.
I mean, it's been around a lotlonger, and you can still look
at and hold and appreciatenegatives from a hundred years
ago, or more So for me, again, Ilike the archival permanence of
it.
the experience of it, thetactile sensation, and again,
for me, it's not about filmbeing better.

(31:55):
It's what I'm more comfortablewith, and it's what I have more
experience with.

Yeah, like your example of you still can,
right?
You still listen to vinyl.
You still do these things that,I'm sure you still read books
rather than a Kindle.
Maybe, you know, like there's alot of examples like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The only flaw that I find withthis, and I'm just playing
devil's advocate here and I wantto hear your perspective, is
that with the vinyl, it's notthat much more work to put it on

(32:24):
a turntable, put down theneedle, press play.
When it comes to photography,especially your version of
photography, where you'reactually developing the film,
you're scanning the filmyourself before it's done.
It's a lot more cumbersome.
There's a lot more steps to itthan that.
So that part of the intrigue foryou?
Or is, is that also ascumbersome?

bring it up, the more I think about it, that's
true because, there's not thatinstant gratification with film
photography, whereas to yourpoint, you know, you throw a
record on there, you know, youpull the, put the needle on it
and you're good to go.
So you're right.
There is more, It's a heavierlift to do film photography, but
of that, again, I think the noninstant gratification does

(33:06):
appeal to me.
The anticipation, back in theday, of course, you know, and,
well, you can do this now, too,if you send your film off to a
lab.
might be a week or two until youget your film back and you don't
know what you're going to getuntil you get you flip through
your, disappointing set ofprints.
lot of cases, but it's like, Ohman, I really thought I nailed
that shot.
Oops, not so much.
And again, developing a home isa little bit different because I

(33:27):
had a little bit quickerturnaround because I could just
develop it, pretty quickly,depending on what the film is
and what the process is and thenscan it right away, you know,
after it dries for about twohours.
scan it right away.
So, part of me does like thefact that you don't always know
what you're going to get.
And for me, that is part of thefun.
It goes back to what I wassaying before, if I'm shooting,

(33:47):
senior portraits, or if I, havea session book with a

Sorry, that

lot of fun?
No, that's not fun.
So that's what I said.
So digital, is superior in thatsense, but you're right.
Film photography, is not theeasiest thing, but I think
because of that, it does, maybewrongly or rightly, at least for
me, give me a little bit moresense of achievement and
satisfaction that.
I did this process.
So again, I think maybe Iappreciate the outcome a little

(34:26):
bit more because I do know thatwork, the work that went into
it, it was a little bit moreinvolved than just pressing a
button.

That was a great explanation.
I appreciate that.
So then if the process of it isenjoyable, that's what brings
you joy.
Let me ask, because there aremultiple steps to shooting film,
obviously for you, there'schoosing a camera, there's
choosing a film, that film,there's different types of
development, processes as well.
There's the scanning andobviously, uh, editing it to be
able to share it.

(34:54):
What within film photographybrings you the most, most joy,

It's kind of funny you ask that because the thing
that brings me the most joy issomething that you can do with
digital as well, which is thephysical, just the process of
shooting the photographs.
So, again, that's not terriblydifferent from the, digital
experience, except for

I think it is.
Yeah.

yeah, it is in the sense that, you can spray and
pray with, digital and hope forthe best and just take, you've
got a bunch of backup shots ifyou want them.
And with film, depending on thefilm stock that you're using,
you've got 24 or 36 shots to getit right you're using 35
millimeter, which is primarilywhat I shoot because I like,
some people say, oh, it takes meforever to get through a roll.

(35:39):
Um, I don't have that problemtypically.
So I

Same.

like medium format, if I've got the Pentax six,
seven, I've got 10 shots onthere and I can zip through that
right away if I really want to.
So 24 or 36, I probably shootmore 36 rolls than I do anything
else.
For me is the way to go.
The process of it is different.
I think some people, and I thinkI would include myself in this.
maybe think a little bit moreabout the shot before I take it,

(36:03):
because every time you take ashot with film, especially with
medium format, certainly withlarge format, you can hear the
cash register.
I mean, it's, money.
Every time you push the button,it's money.
And that's less true with,digital.
Because you're just storing itto a SD card, compact flash
card, whatever.
And your storage is only limitedby the size of your card.
And cards today are huge so youcan take tons of photographs.

(36:26):
So that part of the process isdifferent.
So again, the physical processof taking, going out and
shooting the film, that's stillmy favorite.
But yeah, to your point, it is alittle bit different than
digital, but you can still havefun shooting digital in the
field too.
My least favorite part of filmphotography is the editing,
which I think I kind of alludedto before, because again, I'm

(36:46):
not, I just don't have thepatience to sit there and get
every little speck of dust offmy scan.
So that's half the battle It'sjust when you scan them, try to
get off as much dust as you can.
I've got a rocket blower that Iuse.
I've got a, like a cleaningcloth for my glasses that I
sometimes use to clean off thescanner bed make sure there's
not a bunch of dust on there.

No, but it's hard.
They all, it all seems to getattracted to those negatives,
like, no matter how hard youtry.

think I've ever had a role that I've scanned that
had no dust on it.
That's,

Yeah.

if that happened, uh, in 55 years, that hasn't
happened for me.
So I'm still waiting.

You're gonna have to get, multiple HEPA
filters, air purifiers in yourroom, get the home one as well.
Yeah, live in a bubble.
Yeah, just, just to save you,some time from removing all
those dust specks.
I totally get it.
So, one thing that I love about,you, and one thing that I love
about your YouTube channel isthat there's no, pompousness, in
your film photography.
You talked about the filmpurists before, And I think that

(37:40):
we can all, anybody who haslooked into starting to shoot
film has found thosephotographers on YouTube who
it's, you know, it's either anM6 or, an RB67 or something.
Or, or nothing at all.
And you have this approach thatis just so fun and it's freeing
and it's not over the top.
There's not a lot of pressure init.

(38:00):
And, one, I just want to saythat I really appreciate that.
There's this space that I thinkis desperate for that.
And I think that we've gone solong in this time of.
In this transition from film todigital to like speed things up,
speed up the shooting process,speed up the editing process,
speed up all of these thingsthat you're bringing this slow

(38:21):
photography movement to theforefront, right?
just spending time and gettingoutside.
And that's where a lot ofphotographers that I know that
are listeners today are startingto struggle.
They're seeing all thephotographers say, you gotta do
this, you gotta hustle, yougotta have the best lenses, you
gotta have the best gear, yougotta have all this, and they're
losing that joy of photographyand it's horrible.

(38:43):
So for those listeners rightnow, I guess one, what would you
say to them?
And two, what would youprescribe to them to get them
out and to get them having funwith photography again,

Yeah.
for me, my approach, a lot,probably a lot of it goes back
to my upbringing and how I grewup because I was raised in a
lower middle class family.
So growing up, we had a fewcameras around, but again, if
you look at the time frame, thiswould have been 1970s because I
was born in 69.
And, if you were, didn't have alot of money back then, the

(39:15):
cameras you had around the housewere maybe if you were lucky at
126, right?
that take the kind of the squarepictures, but they were not
anything fancy.
And I think, that just carriedover to my adulthood.
It was like, you don't have tospend a lot of money to still
enjoy photography.
I'm involved with somethingcalled the frugal film project.

(39:36):
And it was started by SherryChristensen.
And she is the host and founderof the embrace the grain
podcast.
And she started that really, Ithink with the intention of just
showing people that filmphotography in particular,
doesn't have to be.
And there are not a lot of rulesto the group, but the focus is
this.
You it's gone up, it's 75 now.

(40:24):
But, that is to say this, for75, you can buy plenty of camera
for that amount.
Are you going to buy that LeicaM6?
You are not, maybe a lens

No, yeah

So, but you don't, to your point before, I am
convinced that you don't needall that.
And again, as I mentionedbefore, sometimes with humbler
gear, it helps you focus on themore important things or more
important things to me, atleast, which is again,
composition subject matter.
And you can shoot what you likewithout the pressure.

(40:56):
And that sounds maybe kind offunny to say, but when I'm
shooting my Pentax 67 whichagain will not be for a while
until the weather warms up.
I almost feel, and it's, I guessit's self imposed, but I feel
the self imposed pressure onmyself is I've got 10 shots,
this is a fancy camera, this isa fancy lens, I've got to get it
right.
And I don't have that pressurewhen I'm zipping through a

(41:19):
disposable or reloadabledisposable camera, point and
shoot, 36 exposures, there'sless pressure on me.
So my advice to somebody thatmaybe wants to start in film
photography, maybe for the firsttime, is Don't maybe start with
a large format or even maybemedium format, but maybe start
with 35mm because again, it'smore forgiving in that you've

(41:40):
got 36 shots.
So you've got more chances toget something that might appeal
to you.
Final product, final image.
And again, if it's a point andshoot, or maybe one of those
Canon EOS cameras we mentionedbefore, you can ease into it and
not be scared of it orintimidated of it.
And I appreciate what you saidbefore about my YouTube channel,
because am not somebody thatdoes or likes to see a lot of

(42:02):
gatekeeping, any so calledknowledge that I might have
accrued for that two years, Ilike to try to pass on to, the
viewers of my channel.
And I think to do othersotherwise is just snooty and
kind of irresponsible havingsaid that if you've got a lot of
money and you have enough cashto get a Leica m6 or something
related go for it.
I don't think there's anythingwrong with that at all It

(42:24):
doesn't appeal to me becauseagain, I don't have the funds to
do that one number two Againrangefinder photography has
never really been my thing.
But some people love rangefinderphotography I do have some
experience with rangefinders.
I had an old Yashica electrorangefinder for a while.
I've had some of the Olympusrangefinders from the late 60s
and early 70s and I got alongpretty well with those.

(42:46):
But again, once those, once youreyes dim and those range finder
patches dim, it gets harder topull that, to pull that focus
off.
So my suggestion is, have funwith it.
I don't want to say lower yourexpectations, but maybe adjust
your expectations to realizethat not every shot has to be
perfect.

(43:06):
You want to express somethingand you can express something in
a shot that's maybe nottechnically perfect.
Maybe you didn't nail the focus.
Maybe the exposure is a littlebit off, but maybe you've
captured a moment you can dothat with the humblest of gears.
If it's got a shutter, can doit.
So don't, I think people shouldnot get so hung up on taking the

(43:26):
best technical picture.
Take the best picture for you.
And if that is just, if it, isyour expression, if it's what
you wanted to capture, whetherthe picture is technically
perfect or not, I think you'vegot something there.

I've shared this before it's like we can
take a photo of a gray wall andit'll be technically perfect But
that is gonna be the most boringphoto Anybody will look at and
another thing that I love aboutfilm photography, which is funny
that the new photographers Ithink it takes a while for it to
click.
Everybody wants to shoot fullframe and digital, which is just
the equivalent of a 35millimeter piece of film.

(44:01):
So it's like you could shootfull frame for, 25 bucks right
now.
You know, if you were to go to athrift store and just buy a roll
of film as well, and that's afull frame camera right there,
you got it.
So, I love that.
Yeah.
Don't put as much pressure onyourself, to get it technically
perfect.
Um,

that, Raymond, to the point of, you know, you
don't have to spend a milliondollars on a camera.
That is somewhat true of film,too.
The knock against filmphotography here recently has
been the prices on film has goneup and up.
And that is not wrong.
It's very true.
But it depends on the film thatyou're shooting, too.
So if somebody is looking for amore accessible, more
inexpensive way, maybe to enterinto film photography or dip
their toes into it, my othersuggestion would be try black

(44:41):
and white.
You don't have to shoot colorfilm.
You can shoot black and white,and to that point, it depends on
the stock that you have.
You don't have to shoot one ofthe more expensive black and
white, uh, film, film stockseither.
I shoot a lot of Fomapan, And ifI really want to go extra cheap,
I'll shoot Arista EDU, which isjust basically a rebadged
Fomapan without the DX coding.

(45:02):
So if you don't care about theautomatic DX code to set your
film speed in your camera, maybeyour camera doesn't even have
that, you can save and get aninexpensive stock like that.
I got, that's what I'm usingactually for this year's version
of the frugal film project.
And I got each roll of black andwhite film, And these are 36
exposures for right around sixbucks.

Wow.
That's half the price of whatI'm paying, yeah.

so if you get a film like that you can do it and
you look for deals, right?
And I got it in bulk.
So I got a nice deal on becauseI had to get 12 rolls of it So
they kept me pretty good deal.
Now the flip side of that isyeah, if you want to shoot a
Kodak portrait 800, which is oneof my favorite films.
I love that film you're notgoing to get that for six bucks
a roll Uh, it's

Not even gold, Yeah Not even gold.
Yeah.
Uh huh.
Uh huh.
Uh huh.

to maybe Not be so tied to color photography.
Maybe try black and white.
And if you get into developing,same thing.
The developing, have to be thathard.
My take on it is this.
If you can follow a recipe, candevelop film at home.
You need a little gear, right?
But, uh, the barrier to entry isnot, I don't think it's that

(46:11):
high.
You can get it like a daylighttank, like I have.
I've got a few of them now.
But, are running about 30 bucks.
You can get those roughly, giveor take, depending on how big
the size of the tank is, becausethere's different sizes.
I use a dark bag, which is gonnabe, again, about another 30
bucks.
And it just looks like a black,oversized, shirt that you just
kind of stick your arms in.
And you have the film in there,and you load the film into the

(46:31):
tank so it doesn't get exposedto light.
Once you've got those twothings, the other necessities
after that are get yourself somekind of developer.
I use Kodak HC 110.
Works great.
then, you need a fixture, Right.
So the three the three steps forfilm photography, it's, again,
it's not super complex.
You can make a more complex ifyou want to, depending on what
developer you use.
You can do a pre soak.

(46:51):
I just use water to soak thefilm a little bit.
You do your developing stops.
You need a developer.
stop part comes after that.
I use water.
Out of the tap, right?
Doesn't cost you much ofanything.
And then you fix it and then yourinse it again.
And you can use a couple dropsof Flo Do Flo, something like
that.
But, if you want to go even moreaccessible, again, this speaks
to what you were talking aboutbefore, maybe people getting

(47:11):
into photography or filmphotography specifically.
You can try a monobath, right?
And I don't think a lot ofpeople maybe know, or not as
many people know about monobathsas you should.
If you really want to

I don't,

yeah, monobath is a great, this is how I started.
Actually, personally, it is onebottle that does it.
You use it for your developing.
Your stop bath and the fixer inone.
It's one bottle and it does allof that.
Now it doesn't work for everyfilm, right?
And this is strictly black andwhite, You

oh, okay,

can't develop color film in a monobath.
Important point.

Like, any black and white?
um,

black and whites, not all.

Okay.
had Ilford, XP2.
And I think XP2 is not

XP2 is C41 processed, so you have to treat
that like, uh, color film.

What am I thinking of then?
Anyway, it doesn't matter.
Dave, we are at the end of ourtime here.
So before I let you go, can youshare with our listeners where
they can find you online, seemore about you, what you're
shooting and how to keep up withyou.

Yeah, the best place to find me online is on
YouTube.
My channel is called The OldCamera Guy.
And so if you search for The OldCamera Guy and see an old guy
with a goatee and a hat, thatwould be me.
So that's probably the bestplace.
The other place to find me is, Iam on Instagram under, oddly
enough, The Old Camera Guy.
And then the last place youcould probably find me now is
Blue Sky.
That's kind of a recent thingfor me.

(48:30):
And so far, I think I like it.
if not, just because my feedhasn't been overrun with bots
and politics and strange thingsand ads.
Yep.
We'll see how that pans out.
But so far I like it So YouTubeand Instagram blue sky the old
camera guy.

Huge thank you to Dave for coming on the
podcast.
I've got one actionable tip thatyou can implement today to
become a better photographer.
And then I'll share with you howyou can win that fun camera.
Okay.
So Dave, the action tip is this.
Go on a photo walk.
All you gotta do is grab yourcamera, put on some good shoes,
go somewhere local, and set atimer for one hour and just walk

(49:09):
around and explore.
Don't feel this need to checkyour camera and, look at
Instagram for inspiration, like,don't do any of that.
Just be there and pay attentionto what you pay attention to.
I will warn you though, like, ifit's your first time, this isn't
exactly the most easy thing todo.
It can feel a bit like, whywould I take a picture of this?

(49:30):
I don't know, a water tower, oldred door frame, a creek running
through town, stuff like that.
But here's what this challengeis.
This exercise is to ignore thatvoice that wants to critique
before you've even createdanything.
Because you can't do both at thesame time.
You can't create and critique.

(49:50):
You can't write and edit.
You have to just create forcreation's sake.
So, again, this is more of anexercise for visualization than
coming home with like 36 bangerimages.
So that is the action item fortoday.
Get out and just shoot with yourcamera.
Alright, now let's go ahead andgive away a camera.

(50:10):
So one of the things that I loveabout film is the look, right?
It's the aesthetic.
And nothing says film more to methan the images that you get
from like a disposable camera.
They're cheap, they're not thatgreat, but they're fun.
Well, in the past few years,there's been a number of plastic
reusable film cameras that havebeen made that will give you

(50:33):
that signature look.
that are reusable.
And one such camera is the RITOWide and Slim.
Fun fact, this camera's actuallybeen around since like the 90s.
I think originally it was madeby Vivitar?
Anyway, it doesn't matter.
This is a tried and true pointand shoot camera.

(50:53):
It's got a 21 millimeter lens,which is super wide on, in
digital terms, full frame, italso has an F 11 lens.
So it's best used, outdoors inthe spring and summer when
there's lots of light and funadventures and bonus it's
battery free too.
So there's nothing to charge.
There's nothing to, you don'tneed to pack any extra
batteries.
You just point and shoot.

(51:14):
And I'm going to give away thiscamera to one of you.
All you got to do is be a partof the beginner photography
podcast community.
Why would I give it to anybodyelse?
So if you're not already part ofthe group, come join us by
heading over tobeginnerphotopod.
com forward slash group.
Again, that's beginnerphotopod.
com forward slash group.

(51:35):
And I'll be announcing a winnerhere in the coming weeks.
Quick note, you do have to be aresident of the U S because
shipping this thinginternationally would cost more
than the camera itself.
And if you're listening in thefuture, I got some fun, quick
ideas for giveaways, plannedgoing forward.
So again, come join us.
That is it for today.

(51:57):
Remember the more that you shoottoday, the better of a
photographer you will betomorrow.
So get out and do that.
Talk soon.

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Reclaim Your Joy For Photography with Dave Mihaly

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