April 4, 2025 • 49 mins
#551 Elizabeth DeVoe is a first-grade teacher in Atlanta who recently embarked on her photography journey. The discussion navigates Elizabeth's early experiences and the unexpected spark that ignited her passion for photography. Elizabeth shares her beginnings with a Canon Rebel XS, a journey that transitioned from a poor initial photo attempt to a newfound love for capturing everyday moments. The episode delves into her learning paths, notably through podcasts, and emphasizes the relatable struggles and triumphs of a beginner photographer.
KEY TOPICS COVERED
- Beginnings of a Photography Journey - Elizabeth describes how a mix of chance and personal necessity led her to pick up the camera again after a year, highlighting how a creative outlet can offer solace and joy amidst life's stresses.
- Learning Through Audio - A significant portion of Elizabeth's early education in photography came from listening to podcasts while driving, showcasing how non-visual learning can effectively complement a visual art form like photography.
- Transitioning to Client Work - Elizabeth talks about moving from photographing friends to paid sessions, underlining the importance of creating comfort and connection with subjects, which is a fundamental skill she honed through teaching and customer service roles.
IMPORTANT DEFINITIONS & CONCEPTS
- Back Button Focusing: A technique in which the focus function is removed from the shutter button and assigned to a button on the back of the camera, allowing for more controlled and repeatable focusing.
DISCUSSION & REFLECTION QUESTIONS
- How can finding a personal creative outlet improve mental health and balance in one's life?
- In what ways can non-traditional learning methods contribute to skill acquisition in visual arts?
RESOURCES:
Follow Elizabeth DeVoe on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/elizabethdevoephotography/
Sign up for your free CloudSpot Account today at www.DeliverPhotos.com
Download your free copy of
46 Creative Photo Ideas to Get You Out of a Rut
at https://creativeimageideas.com/
Connect with Raymond!
- Join the free Beginner Photography Podcast Community at https://beginnerphotopod.com/group
- Get your Photo Questions Answered on the show - https://beginnerphotopod.com/qa
- Grab your free camera setting cheatsheet - https://perfectcamerasettings.com/
Thanks for listening & keep shooting!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Elizabeth DeVoe (00:00):
I do send out a questionnaire at first.
(00:01):
Just to specify like, okay, whatcombinations of photos would you
like?
So I know all of that before, sowe don't have to waste our time
talking about that.
And like, if there's anyspecific goals for this?
So like one of them she's due inDecember, so she wanted to
capture that.
One of them's like, we wantthese for holiday cards.
So those are good things toknow.
So I don't have to like, findthat out in those 15 minutes.
Raymond Hatfield (2) (00:22):
Hey, welcome to the Beginner
Photography Podcast.
I'm your host, Raymond Hatfield,and each week I interview one of
the world's most interestingphotographers to learn what it
really takes to capturebeautiful images so that you can
start to do the same.
And in today's rewind episode,we are chatting with community
member Elizabeth Devo aboutbalancing a full-time teaching
career with learningphotography.
(00:43):
It can be rough.
But first, the BeginnerPhotography Podcast is brought
to you by Cloud Spot.
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clients, send professionalcontracts, automated invoices,
and more.
Keeping track of everything inyour photography business just
got a whole lot easier.
And the best part, you can grabyour free forever account today
(01:03):
over@deliverphotos.com and onlyupgrade when you and your
business are ready.
Elizabeth is one of thoseshining stars in the group,
honestly.
She always has something warm tosay and incredibly excited to
soak up as much knowledge ashumanly possible in the group.
One thing I love about thisgroup is that it has become a
place where if you participateconsistently over time, you can
(01:27):
see your body of work evolve andgrow.
And that's exactly what I see inElizabeth's work, as you'll
hear, she started in photographypretty much by accident and
honed her skills.
worked harder at getting better,and now can honestly say that
she's an amazing photographer.
So in today's episode, you willlearn how to embrace your
passion by simply experimentingbecause of work.
(01:48):
You know, sometimes you cannotdedicate huge chunks of time to
learning, and Elizabeth sharesgreat advice on how to make
measurable progress without muchtime.
You'll also learn how to createa creative routine and how to
develop a genuine clientapproach, focusing on comfort
over perfection so that you cancreate images that are genuine
and personal.
(02:09):
And remember, I found Elizabethbecause she participates in the
free and amazing beginnerphotography podcast community,
and I would love to see youthere too.
So come join us by heading overto beginner photo pod.com/group.
Again, beginner photopod.com/group.
And with that, let's go aheadand get on into today's
interview.
Raymond Hatfield (02:29):
I just want to know who you are and what you
do.
Like what is your day job andwhat got you started in
photography?
Elizabeth DeVoe (02:37):
Awesome.
Well, I am Elizabeth DeVoe.
I am a first grade teacher herein Atlanta.
I have been doing photographyfor about three months now since
maybe August.
A very, very, very short amountof time.
I couldn't tell you what had mepick it up this time.
I, about a year ago in themiddle of the pandemic, bought a
(02:58):
very cheap to me, Canon Rebel XSfrom a friend.
I think she gave it to us forlike 40 or 50 bucks.
We were doing some other workfor her.
So she just was like, here itis, not using it anymore.
Take it.
I picked it up.
I took a picture of my dog.
And my dining room, and it wasso bad that I was like, this
camera's broken.
(03:18):
This camera's done.
This is to no put it away for atleast a year.
Didn't touch it.
And I'm not sure if it was just,I needed an escape from.
Like the demands of work thisyear or what it was.
I don't know what I was lookingfor in August, but that was the
beginning of the school year.
So I can assume it was probablythat that had me pick it up and
(03:40):
was like, well, let me see if itwas me.
That was the reason I can't,that photo was not so great.
so I picked it back up again,looked at just a few things and
really just immediately fell inlove with it that time.
I don't know what was differentfrom that time versus a year
ago, but.
The first time I took it aroundmy neighborhood, it was like an
immediate, I've never fallen inlove with something that
(04:00):
quickly.
And it's kind of just been anobsession since then.
Raymond Hatfield (04:04):
Okay.
So, uh,
Elizabeth DeVoe (04:06):
no, no,
Raymond Hatfield (04:08):
I love all of that.
And I think that your story isgoing to resonate with a lot of
people because of that fact thatlike you bought a camera or you
got.
And you think, correct me if I'mwrong, but you think that when
you get this camera, you'relike, oh, amazing photos are
coming my way.
Like, this is going to befantastic.
And then that first photo thatyou take, for all intents and
purposes here is, was garbage.
And you think to yourself, Youthink to yourself, Oh no, like
(04:32):
this is not, what I thought thatit was going to be.
So then you put it down.
And I think that a lot of peopleget into that position, but then
obviously something compelledyou to pick up that camera again
and keep going.
So you said that it was aroundAugust.
I mean, was it just on the shelfor did you see something on
Instagram and you thought, Hey,I kind of want to try that.
Like, what was it that kind ofsparked that initial.
(04:55):
Let me try this again.
Elizabeth DeVoe (04:57):
You know, I knew you would ask me that and
I've been trying to think ofwhat it was for like weeks now.
Raymond Hatfield (05:02):
Legitimately nothing, huh?
Elizabeth DeVoe (05:03):
I really have.
so I have this little nook in myhouse that's always been kind of
my creative space.
at the beginning of thepandemic, my partner and I
realized we kind of, you know,We loved being together, of
course, but we also needed tocreate our own spaces if we were
going to be together all thetime.
So I had my little creative nookin my house and that's where I,
used to, um, hopefully still doit sometimes, paint.
(05:24):
I paint, I play piano a littlebit.
I say that I'm learning piano alittle bit.
so that's just kind of my littlearea.
So it was sitting in my littlecreative zone.
And, my kind of release afterwork is walking my dog around
the block and walking into thepark across the street.
So I took it out one day with mejust to kind of see what was
around and took it.
(05:46):
One of the first photographs Iremember taking is there's this
like half fallen down mailboxacross my street.
That's just covered in vines andit's really cool looking and I
loved the photo I took.
Not necessarily that I took itbut I loved the subject that I
took and it was just sointeresting to me that I just
kept taking them from there.
I really think it was justlooking for a release and
(06:06):
looking for something new.
I kind of am a person that goesfrom hobby to hobby to hobby.
And so this was like well let metry this out.
And this one hopefully willstick a lot longer than others.
Raymond Hatfield (06:18):
So this is where you're at today.
This is great.
So I love that you are still sorelatively new in this journey
because kind of helps me figureout like, what are the things
that you're struggling withmost?
because having been theremyself, like, I know the
answers.
I just need to know like what isthat source?
So when you went out and tookthat photo of that half broken
(06:39):
mailbox covered in vines, areyou shooting an auto?
Are you shooting an aperturepriority?
What's your technical knowledgeof photography at this point?
Elizabeth DeVoe (06:47):
I believe I was shooting an aperture priority at
that point.
did you have
Raymond Hatfield (06:50):
any idea what that meant?
Elizabeth DeVoe (06:52):
A little bit.
Only because I couldn't tell youwho it was, but I had signed up
for like a five day, likechallenge of kinds that like the
first day they told you they'dsend you a little article and it
was about, aperture.
The second day it was aboutshutter speed.
The second, third day was about.
X, Y, and Z, all of thedifferent things.
And so it had little practicepoints through there.
(07:12):
So I was starting to becomefamiliar with those terms.
And so I started an aperturepriority of Jubilee, just
because that was the one thatmade most sense to me.
Like the aperture part.
And I was like, okay, let'sstart here.
Raymond Hatfield (07:27):
Okay.
So you left that photo, right?
You took it and you thought,this is fantastic.
I'm going to, make a serious goat this.
what's your learning path?
Like, how do you intend to learnphotography?
What was the first thing that,that you had thought of?
Was it, I need to go to alibrary?
Was it, I need to look onYouTube?
where did that lead you?
Elizabeth DeVoe (07:45):
It honestly was podcasts.
Hi.
use Spotify a lot and I justsearched, you know, photography
one day.
And, I don't remember if yourswas the very first.
I know it was at least the firstor second that I found though,
because obviously I was abeginner.
So that was probably what Ityped in.
And I straight just listened tothe first before I started
(08:05):
scattering off into the episodesto fit my interests a little
more.
I listened to the first 20 or30, like straight through.
And that was honestly where Ilearned a lot.
I think I told you this on amessage, but through those
first, I don't remember if itwas around episode 10 or so, the
triangle series.
On
Raymond Hatfield (08:23):
manual
Elizabeth DeVoe (08:23):
within a week or two of picking up the camera.
Raymond Hatfield (08:27):
That's amazing.
I love to hear that.
That is so cool.
So I want to ask why it was
Elizabeth DeVoe (08:32):
great, but I was on it.
Raymond Hatfield (08:34):
Yeah, that's a start, right?
That's a start where we're allterrible drivers that, you know,
15 or whatever, but we getbetter in time, hopefully.
Um, like what made you think,photography is such a visual
medium.
What made you think, I want totry to learn photography through
audio.
Like, I don't want to seeexamples.
I want to learn photographythrough, through podcasts.
Elizabeth DeVoe (08:54):
I honestly, that was probably, A big part of
my grad school brain comingback, like in grad school, I was
so busy all the time that I feltlike the only time that I had me
time was when I was driving.
And so I basically only listento it when I'm driving.
On my drive to work and on mydrive back.
So that was a big part of it.
Raymond Hatfield (09:16):
This is just like a personal curiosity here.
Are you like trying to writedown things or memorize things?
If something comes up so thatyou can practice later, or how
do you retain that information?
Elizabeth DeVoe (09:25):
A lot of rewind, a lot of replay, as well
as following the people thatyou're interviewing.
Like, especially if it's, peoplethat are really sticking with
me, I immediately go and followthem and kind of make a mental
note to go look at, look at thatlater and remind myself of why.
Raymond Hatfield (09:41):
Anybody who's, who stands out in particular,
Elizabeth DeVoe (09:44):
do you see me looking at my notes over here?
Raymond Hatfield (09:47):
You're prepared.
I love it.
Yes.
Elizabeth DeVoe (09:49):
The first one that I remember was, I think his
name was Andrew Billington.
Raymond Hatfield (09:53):
Okay.
Yeah.
Elizabeth DeVoe (09:54):
And it was specifically not so much the
wedding side of it, but thedocumentary side of it.
And that has basically been myapproach since listening to
that, as well as listening tolike you, you talk so much
about, capturing the momentsversus anything else.
And so that's kind of been myapproach since then.
Why do you think that
Raymond Hatfield (10:14):
stood out to you so much?
Elizabeth DeVoe (10:16):
That's a good question.
It's just, for me, like, I hatebeing in front of the camera.
And I hate posing.
And I don't want to pose otherpeople.
And not because, I do, because Ido think, like, posing is for
certain occasions.
sometimes, like, I do boudoirstuff as well.
And, like, that can definitelybe a time where posing is more
needed or wanted.
(10:38):
but on the whole, it's just, Ilove just the way Andrew like
captures the day.
I think he says like your dayexactly as it was or something
along those lines.
Don't quote me on that.
But I just, I like capturing themoments just as they were
versus, hey, look over here, saycheese.
I want you to be exactly who youare and let me just like stop
(10:59):
that moment in time.
Raymond Hatfield (11:02):
So from the beginning, right?
We got this photo of a halfbroken mailbox covered in vines.
And then you hear this.
Elizabeth DeVoe (11:08):
Somebody's mailbox.
Raymond Hatfield (11:10):
I hope that they listen to this.
So, how does it go from that toyou wanting to photograph, you
know,
Elizabeth DeVoe (11:17):
it definitely started I said, it was a lot
just around the neighborhoodfirst.
and then I did, I kind of justput out some feelers to see if
anyone wanted to do any freesessions.
And, I think I did three myfirst weekend and they were all
so drastically different.
that it definitely had mequestioning some things because
it was just very all over theplace.
I think I had one person want todo a very spooky like smoke bomb
(11:39):
session.
I had a couple who didn't havean engagement session who like
wanted to have that kind ofthing and then I had a cosplay
like person and it was just allover the place but all of them
were so fun and I think for meit was the reaction of them.
It was two of those three peoplespecifically had in a way like
(12:02):
self image concerns, and werevery much like, Hmm, you're not
going to post these anywhere.
Right.
And I was like, well, I wouldlove to, but like, if you don't
want me to, I won't.
And both of them right afterreceiving it, we're like, post
them all.
I love these.
I feel great for like what thiswas.
And I think that just thatreaction really kind of just
like stuck me, stuck me there.
Raymond Hatfield (12:24):
Why do you think it was different?
Do you think that it wassomething that you did?
Obviously, if they have body,concerns, they've had their
photos taken before and they'veseen those photos and they
weren't thrilled with them.
Why do you think once they sawyour photos, they were so happy
with them?
Elizabeth DeVoe (12:39):
I think a lot of times too, like, yes, they've
had their photo taken, but Ithink a lot of, times we take
our own pictures.
Like we take selfies.
Or we have someone like, saycheese real quick at the party
or whatever it is, but I findthat a lot of people, at least
I've never even considered goingand getting professional photos.
Especially people that don'thave families yet.
(12:59):
And like, that's just notsomething that a lot of people,
at least in my friend circle,have ever really done.
And so I think just getting thatlike objective, there we go,
that objective perspective, likeoutside of your own self and
seeing yourself at differentangles than you would take your
own pictures from and notworrying about who's taking the
picture and like just gettingcomfortable and in that setting.
(13:22):
I'm not sure.
I don't know if that answersyour question.
Raymond Hatfield (13:25):
It does, it definitely helps lead me down
the path.
So Did you know these peoplepersonally or were these
complete strangers to you?
You did know them.
Yes, these are
Elizabeth DeVoe (13:32):
all my closest friends,
Raymond Hatfield (13:33):
yeah.
Gotcha.
Okay, so that, does make it alittle easier.
So If these people were completestrangers, do you think that you
would be able to make them feelas comfortable in front of a
camera?
Elizabeth DeVoe (13:43):
It depends on the session.
Like, for example, the thingsthat those people said was, um,
like, the person in the couple,she was like, I've never, loved
how I've looked just genuinelysmiling in a picture.
Like, it was something as simpleas that.
She's like, and you capturedthis specific picture of me
laughing or me smiling, and itwas natural.
Oh, beautiful there.
and I do think it depends on thesession because I just had my
(14:04):
first minis and like, those are15 minute sessions.
And like, I had a family come inand be like, we're very camera
shy.
And I'm like, we're going to dothe best that we can in this 15
minutes and we're going to havefun with it.
But it's definitely a differentexperience than like my two hour
intimate portraits that I can dowith my friends where we can sit
down and we can like just hangout for a minute and we can
relax.
(14:25):
And I've had a consultation withyou before to talk about all of
those things.
So it really just, I think it'spossible in all different
sessions, but it definitely, theapproach changes.
Raymond Hatfield (14:37):
You just really, really jumped on in with
just picking up the camera,essentially within the past
three months to going from
Elizabeth DeVoe (14:44):
it has been wild.
Raymond Hatfield (14:47):
Well, tell me your approach for making, these
strangers, these families feelcomfortable in front of your
camera, just within 15 minutes.
Do you think that that abilitycomes from?
working with children at yourjob, or is this something else?
Are you asking them questions totry to figure out their concerns
and their desires?
Elizabeth DeVoe (15:05):
I do send out a questionnaire at first.
So this is this was my veryfirst time.
This was my I had three familiesthis last weekend, and those
are, I think, outside of oneother family.
The first time I've worked with,like, complete strangers.
So I did send out a,questionnaire with them and just
to specify like, okay, whatcombinations of photos would you
like?
So I know all of that before, sowe don't have to waste our time
talking about that.
(15:26):
And like, what are your, ifthere's any specific goals for
this?
So like one of them was, she'sdue in December, so she wanted
to capture that.
One of them's like, we wantthese for holiday cards.
So those are good things toknow.
So I don't have to like, findthat out in those 15 minutes.
Raymond Hatfield (15:40):
Of course.
Elizabeth DeVoe (15:41):
But outside of that, I do think I'm sorry, is
Raymond Hatfield (15:44):
that the puppet that you were talking
about?
Is that a tail?
Elizabeth DeVoe (15:48):
Yes, sure.
It is.
Oh, look
Raymond Hatfield (15:49):
at that face
Elizabeth DeVoe (15:52):
My goodness, I lost my train of thought.
Oh, but yes, I do think workingwith kids is absolutely a plus
because all of these familieshad children.
I'm also just very naturally,like, if you want a bad dad
joke, I'll tell one, like,
Raymond Hatfield (16:07):
quick, tell me one,
Elizabeth DeVoe (16:09):
don't do that.
That was not on the
Raymond Hatfield (16:13):
spot.
Okay.
Elizabeth DeVoe (16:15):
As well as like, I've worked customer
service my whole life.
You know, even before teaching,teaching is customer service in
a way as well.
But like,
Raymond Hatfield (16:22):
yeah,
Elizabeth DeVoe (16:23):
that's just, that's kind of my whole thing.
Like, yeah, that's awesome.
Goopiness
Raymond Hatfield (16:30):
kind of
Elizabeth DeVoe (16:30):
hits them a little bit.
Raymond Hatfield (16:32):
Yeah.
So just be genuine in, who youare.
And I like how, having thatcustomer service.
is really important.
And I think that it's somethingthat maybe a lot of other
photographers don't think aboutnecessarily.
I always see that like when mostphotographers get into it, they
they'll get into photography.
They love their photos.
They see it as a form of art,which it is, but then when they
(16:53):
go to get people in front of thecamera, they feel as if they're
selling art rather thanproviding a service, right?
And where customer servicedifferences, where it differs is
that in customer service, you'retrying to solve their needs,
right?
Whatever their desires are inthat moment.
And then of course you cantailor your response to that in
the form of your photography.
(17:13):
So I can see why.
You know, you've already had agreat response from your photos.
So going back to those, firstfew sessions and even these
minis that you had, what sort oftechnical challenges did you run
into?
or did you have any concerns orworries coming into them?
Elizabeth DeVoe (17:29):
So many,
Raymond Hatfield (17:30):
so many, you know what?
I would be worried if youdidn't.
So I'm glad that you said that.
Elizabeth DeVoe (17:35):
And honestly, the only reason I started taking
on like actual like paid clientsis because somebody approached
me and I was like, well, thatseems like a good time to start.
but I definitely jumped in veryfast.
I think, Focus is a big, problemfor me right now.
I think, I know I've talked withKim Kimberly a lot about this,
(17:56):
but I know I, I honestly havenot figured out if my camera has
that, that everyone's got thateye tracking, face tracking.
Raymond Hatfield (18:04):
If you're shooting with a.
Is it the excess you said?
It does
Elizabeth DeVoe (18:07):
not.
I didn't think so.
And so I'm sitting there tryingto keep saying, I know you, I
listened to an episode recently,I couldn't tell you which one,
where you're talking about howmuch it takes to change the
focus point on a canon.
And so like, it's constantlydoing that.
So focus has been an issue aswell as editing.
I think I'm definitely stillworking on editing.
And lighting.
(18:28):
Those last
Raymond Hatfield (18:28):
two are going to be things that you're going
to work on forever.
I mean, I still, I stillstruggle with, you know, I
posted in the group a few daysago about yeah, the shadows,
right.
The family portraits that I didafter the ceremony.
Elizabeth DeVoe (18:42):
I had to read the comments to try to figure
out what it was.
I didn't notice.
Raymond Hatfield (18:45):
Oh my gosh.
Well, okay.
So then, yeah, obviously, yeah,that's just something that like,
you're going to just deal withforever, and even with editing,
it's like, now I got to figureout this new thing.
And now apparently Lightroomcame out with like some huge
update that everybody's talkingabout.
And I'm like,
Elizabeth DeVoe (19:01):
well, now I got to figure that
Raymond Hatfield (19:02):
out.
Elizabeth DeVoe (19:02):
So many problems with Lightroom, and I
think it's more so my tabletthat I'm trying to run it on
versus Lightroom, but that'sbeen a really big hurdle.
Raymond Hatfield (19:12):
Lightroom is not a light program.
Let's just say that it isdefinitely considered a pro app
and requires a lot moreresources that it actually
shouldn't require as muchresources as it does.
But, you know, leave that up tothe people at Adobe, I suppose.
Let's go back to the whole,being there in person, the
technicals.
the biggest issue that you'refacing is focus, right?
(19:32):
I can tell you, from personallyusing the Canon XS, which I
think came out in 2008,
Elizabeth DeVoe (19:38):
I think
Raymond Hatfield (19:39):
eight.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
So it's been a while.
It's in digital terms, it's avery old camera and 2008 was
really, I mean, the cusp ofconsumer digital photography as
far as DSLR goes.
So I think that that's somethingthat.
Here's an analogy, right?
I'd been like riding dirt bikesand stuff as I was, young,
(19:59):
right?
But actually taking a motorcycleon the road is an entirely
different experience.
And if anybody knows anythingabout motorcycles, my first road
motorcycle was a 250.
And it's considered to be veryunderpowered, right?
And I was upset.
I was like, Mom, come on, like,I need like a bigger bike, let
me buy a bigger bike.
And she said, No, start with a250.
(20:20):
And even though I didn't wantto, I think that having a bike
that was underpowered forced meto learn how to use it
effectively, right?
Like how to get the most out ofit.
I just assumed that having aproper 600, 750 would be Just a
better all around bike.
I'd have a better experience,but that wasn't the case.
And when I did finally upgradeto a seven 50, I was much more
(20:43):
comfortable in that positionbecause I had already been in
plenty positions where I hadsomething that was underpowered
and I needed to figure out howto make that work.
So kind of tying it back intowhere you are, I think that
having an older camera body,once you really become
proficient in it and learn itslittle nuances, when it is time
for you to upgrade, I mean,you're going to be Light years
(21:04):
ahead of people who just, decideto get into photography and buy
that full frame camera rightaway.
so I would just encourage you tocontinue to, to keep trying and
figure out what's going to workbest.
And if I can give you a little,suggestion here when it comes to
focusing.
You're like, please, yes,anything.
Elizabeth DeVoe (21:21):
Give them all to me.
I wasn't talking to you.
This needs to be your interview.
Raymond Hatfield (21:26):
Not at all.
When it comes to those oldercameras, the center focus point
is always going to be thestrongest.
Because it's going to be a crosstype focus point, whereas all
the others are not.
So that means that if you canonly use that center point,
you're going to have a muchbetter, success rate in the
photos that you get in focus.
Now, obviously in your head, youmight think to yourself, well,
(21:48):
then that means that all myphotos are going to look exactly
the same because people's headsare going to be directly in the
center of the frame, but do alittle YouTube work and figure
out how to do what's called backbutton focusing.
have you looked into this atall?
Elizabeth DeVoe (22:01):
Haven't.
Raymond Hatfield (22:02):
So you know how when you half press the
shutter button, it finds focus,right?
So back button focus removesthat.
So when you half press theshutter, it doesn't focus at
all.
But there's a button on the backof your camera that when you
press it with your thumb, itwill focus.
So what that allows you to dois, if you're standing, 10 feet
away from somebody and they'restanding there, say it's a
(22:23):
couple and they're just hangingout together and they're looking
at each other and they'rekissing or whatever, and you
take 15, 20 photos.
You don't want your camera tospend time refocusing every time
you go to take a photo becauseyou're the same distance away
from them, there's no need torefocus.
So you can get that focus once,and as long as you're in the
same spot, and they're in thesame spot, every time you take a
(22:45):
photo, it's not going to have tospend that time to refocus, and
you know that all those photosare going to be in focus because
you're the same distance away.
And this is one of those thingsthat really helped me increase
my focus.
Hit rate, I suppose, in thosefocus points because, of that
exactly, you know, you're goingto be able to just nail that and
it's going to help you figureout more about focus as well.
(23:06):
As far as like your depth offield, because you're going to
realize if I take a stepforward, they're going to be out
of focus unless I refocus.
If I take a step backwards,somehow they're still in focus
and that's all about depth offield.
And once you figure that out, Ithink through personal
experience.
Again, you're going to be a muchmore competent photographer when
it comes time to upgrade,whether it be your lens or your
(23:30):
camera.
does that make sense?
Does that kind of,
Elizabeth DeVoe (23:32):
yeah, I appreciate it.
I definitely, I had readsomewhere about the center focus
being like ideal, especially forfamily portraits.
And I think this last time I didthat.
For two families and thenswitch.
I did switch to auto focus formy last, just to compare and see
what was that.
And I think definitely, Idefinitely prefer to do it like
(23:57):
a, choose my own focus point andgo from there.
So
Raymond Hatfield (23:59):
of course, I'll
Elizabeth DeVoe (24:01):
definitely look at that, that back button
though.
Raymond Hatfield (24:03):
during your journey here, like while you've
been learning, I want to know,is there anything that you've
been taught or that you've heardthat you thought to yourself,
this doesn't make any sense, orI don't think that this applies
to me or anything that you havefelt.
is wrong information, if thatmakes sense?
Elizabeth DeVoe (24:18):
I was worried I wouldn't have an answer for
that, but I do.
I do.
I think, and I, I don't rememberwho this interview was with
recently that I listened to, buthaving one very specific niche
is something that concerns me.
feeling like I have to choosesomething because I think my
(24:39):
heart is pulled in a couple ofdifferent directions with it.
like I have like my intimateportraits is something that I
really love doing.
I would love to get intoelopements, but I also don't
want to be tied down to thosethings.
And I feel like a lot of timesyou hear photographers say,
like, you have to find yourniche to be successful.
and so the couple of times thatI've heard other photographers
be like, no, I do this, this,this, and this.
(25:00):
Like gives me some comfortbecause I, don't want to be tied
down to just like one or twodifferent things.
I know specializing in a coupleof things is very important.
That way you can get better andbetter at it, but also.
There's so much to photograph.
Like, I want to be tied down tojust one thing.
Um, that's one big thing I'vebeen thinking about.
Raymond Hatfield (25:20):
Okay.
I think that's fair.
And I think that a lot of newphotographers feel a very
similar way because so manyphotographers do, do say that
exact same thing and myself to adegree.
I've said that as well, plentyof times.
So tell me like, what is it thatscares you most about that or
about the idea of that?
Elizabeth DeVoe (25:38):
I think just being limited and I guess I,
maybe I said scared, but maybe,it's just like a concern that I
just don't want to be limited tothat.
I mentioned before, I kind oflike to jump, like I'm a very
restless person.
And so if I'm doing the samething over and over and over
again, I'm going to get a littlerestless with it.
And I guess I'm just hoping thatif I do have to stick or not
(25:59):
have to, but if I do end upsticking with one or two niches
or specific things that Iphotographed that, that But
there's enough variation in itto does that make sense to keep
me engaged or to keep me
Raymond Hatfield (26:11):
it doesn't make sense.
Elizabeth DeVoe (26:12):
Yeah.
Raymond Hatfield (26:12):
Yes.
Okay, next question here.
what's your end goal withphotography.
Elizabeth DeVoe (26:17):
I am very inspired by oh my goodness I
should have written his namedown.
You'll probably recognize thathe does elopement, as well as
like the anti boudoir.
and he has such a unique style.
He also does tattooing on theside.
I'll have to find his name.
Raymond Hatfield (26:35):
Is it Dylan Howell?
Elizabeth DeVoe (26:36):
No,
Raymond Hatfield (26:38):
no.
Elizabeth DeVoe (26:39):
I'll find it for sure.
Raymond Hatfield (26:41):
Did I interview
Elizabeth DeVoe (26:42):
them
Raymond Hatfield (26:42):
on the
Elizabeth DeVoe (26:42):
podcast?
I think so.
Raymond Hatfield (26:44):
Okay.
Elizabeth DeVoe (26:45):
But anyway, I'll have to find it
Raymond Hatfield (26:46):
anyway.
Elizabeth DeVoe (26:47):
No, maybe not.
Anyway, his name is Chewy.
Okay.
Okay.
but he does, elopements thatkind of turn into more intimate
sessions.
And like, that's something I'mvery drawn to.
So my end goal, honestly, islike, I've loved the, I hesitate
to call it boudoir, but theintimate portraits, the
elopements, the kind of smaller,more like emotional stuff.
(27:11):
It's really what I've been.
Hello.
So that would be, if I had anend goal in mind, like right
now, I'm not saying that itwon't change.
That would be it is headingtowards the instrument through
elopement, like kind of world.
Raymond Hatfield (27:28):
Do you see yourself leaving?
Elizabeth DeVoe (27:31):
I would like to,
Raymond Hatfield (27:32):
yes,
Elizabeth DeVoe (27:33):
that would be the end goal.
I would like to, again, I'veonly been doing this a few
months, so I don't want to likespeak too much for myself right
now, but it seems to be going ina direction that puts that in
the realm of possibilities.
Raymond Hatfield (27:47):
Okay.
So I don't know If you recognizethis or not, but knowing that,
that you've entertained the ideaof leaving teaching.
And when I asked you what it isthat, you know, what's your end
goal, what is it that you wantto shoot?
You only really mentioned onething.
And that was elopements thatturned into intimate portraits.
Right?
Right.
I think that, obviously, I wasgoing to say, if you have no
(28:10):
intentions of leaving teaching,then there's no need to niche
down at all.
The only reason why niching downis, I think, recommended, is not
so much that you can get betterat one specific thing, but when
it's, you're known for that onething, like if you only
photographed headshots of CEOs.
Just an example here.
(28:30):
Who do you think a business isgonna call?
Do you think they're gonna callsomebody who does a little bit
of families, a little bit ofweddings, right?
You know, a little bit of minisessions and then sometimes they
do headshots.
So from a business perspective,that's all that it is, right?
You don't buy a Coke because youwant a Sprite.
Yeah, you buy a coke becausecoke does one thing and it does
(28:52):
it well and it knows what it isNow from personal experience I
can tell you I mean I shootweddings.
I market myself as a weddingphotographer I'll shoot anything
like if my neighbors want familyphotos.
I'll go photograph that am Igoing to photograph my kids?
Of course i'm going tophotograph my kids, I'm not just
gonna look at them and be like,sorry only weddings and
engagements guys.
(29:12):
No photos today
Elizabeth DeVoe (29:14):
See you later.
Raymond Hatfield (29:15):
Yeah, exactly.
So I think that concern that youhave, I wouldn't worry about it
too much.
You'll always find a space to beable to photograph whatever it
is that you want.
And legitimately, myrecommendation is for anybody
who's been shooting less thanfive years is to literally take
every single opportunity thatyou have to photograph anything,
whatever it is, food,commercial, real estate,
(29:39):
wedding, whatever it is.
Take that, because I think rightnow, while your heart is telling
you like, elopements andintimate portraits are my thing,
scientifically, there's just noway that you know for sure.
I mean, until you photographeverything.
You could find thatarchitectural, architectural,
architecture photography is yourthing, you might figure that
(30:02):
out.
So I would encourage you don'ttry to limit yourself right now.
If that thing comes up.
You're going to find it, andthen you'll just go down that
path.
Elizabeth DeVoe (30:10):
You're absolutely right.
I think one thing that I thinkabout when it comes to that,
that kind of puts it at theforefront of my of my mind is
one of the other biggest thingsI struggle with, which is social
media.
And, you go to thesephotographers pages, and
everything is so consistent inlike their style is very clear.
And like, you go to my page andit's got like, it's from the
(30:32):
beginning of my painting journeyabout three years ago, four,
five years ago.
Like it's got my first picturefrom then to the last photo I
took.
And it's just a hodgepodge ofeverything.
And I'm always like, thisdoesn't look appealing to
probably anybody but me becauseit's my personal journey but
like, there's no style there's aleaf on this photograph a train
(30:53):
on this one in a person on thisone because I'm taking pictures
of everything.
But I remember one thing I heardsomebody say it was like, post
the things that you want totake.
Or, and so even if you'rephotographing everything, like
advertise or post the ones thatyou want to continue taking.
Raymond Hatfield (31:10):
Yeah.
Elizabeth DeVoe (31:11):
Which I struggle with
Raymond Hatfield (31:13):
again, I don't mean this to downplay your
skills and your abilities.
I think you're just still verynew in this whole journey.
Absolutely.
And it's not something that youcould possibly know.
You know what I mean?
Right.
Like, unless you could tell me,I only shoot.
Elopements for couples between,28 and 40
Elizabeth DeVoe (31:31):
years.
I think I've never even shot anelopement.
I'm saying that just becausethat's what I want.
Like, that's what no, of course.
We've been done it.
Raymond Hatfield (31:37):
Yes.
Exactly.
And that's what I'm saying.
how do you expect to have somesort of cohesive social media
presence?
When you haven't figured out theone thing that lights you up the
most that you want tophotograph.
You're right.
Yeah.
Challenge you to just get offsocial media.
Just say, forget social mediafor now.
Don't even worry about it.
You know, here's anotherquestion.
(31:59):
Is that when it comes to socialmedia, did you find it inspiring
or do you find it kind of,almost like, Oh, I wish I was
that good.
do you feel more positive vibesor negative reaction?
Elizabeth DeVoe (32:10):
I think if I'm looking to it for a specific
purpose, So for example, likebefore my boudoir sessions, I
would look on there for specificposes or for specific lighting.
It can be useful.
outside of that, it's like, oh,these are gorgeous.
One day I'll be there.
I definitely, I remember hearingsome of the people that you
interviewed talk about thebeginning of their journey and
how they literally went andunfollowed everybody.
(32:32):
Like unfollowed all thephotographers.
Cause it's just like, didn't askfor critique and just, cause
it's overwhelming.
It can definitely beoverwhelming.
Raymond Hatfield (32:40):
Yeah.
What did you feel about that?
Elizabeth DeVoe (32:43):
It's definitely a suggestion that like I've
considered and I attempted tonot ask for too much critique
for a little while until I got,more concerned with my editing
because that's always a struggleas well.
Um, but I don't know, I mean, Ithink for a little while it can
be good advice until you find,the thing is, is I think part of
the reason I've put so muchpressure on it this early is
(33:05):
that there's much knowledge andthere's so many people willing
to help.
And there's so much informationthat I feel like, almost like
there's no excuse for me not todo well.
Does that make sense?
Like, I feel like all of theanswers are within my reach.
So if I'm not succeeding, it'son me for not going to go and
(33:27):
get those answers.
I don't know if that makessense.
Raymond Hatfield (33:30):
A hundred percent, a hundred percent.
I love that personalresponsibility.
That's great.
So then, when it comes to,looking for critiques, I really
think that there's two differentaspects of your photos being
critiqued.
It's both the technical side andthen the artistic side.
And what's difficult is that youcan't really critique the
artistic side because you don'tknow what you're trying to say
artistically.
So at this point, like, askingfor feedback, I think, can still
(33:52):
be really relevant, as long asyou frame it in a technical
question, you know?
Why did I miss focus?
how much depth of field shouldthis photo have?
is this photo too underexposed?
Is it too overexposed?
You know, what do you thinkabout white balance in this
photo?
When you frame it from atechnical standpoint, I think
that you're going to get moreinformation out of the critiques
(34:13):
that you get.
whereas with social media, likeit's really hard to get that
unless you're in some sort ofgroup, obviously like the
beginner photography podcast,Facebook group, that's where I
found you.
Can I ask how, how did you findthe group
Elizabeth DeVoe (34:25):
through the podcast?
Like I said, I think justsearching through Spotify and
finding the podcast and thenhearing about the Facebook
group.
Raymond Hatfield (34:32):
What made you want to join?
there's a million photographygroups online.
what made you want to join?
Elizabeth DeVoe (34:38):
obviously it was, geared towards beginners,
which was very helpful.
I think more so, like what mademe stick to this group more than
any other is you've just createdsuch a community of.
Honesty, but also respect.
I'm in a few other likephotography groups and some
local groups.
(34:58):
And you can't go a week withoutand I'm not I'm not bashing any
other group, but there's justnot that.
sense of community set in thosegroups.
and there can just be some, alot of negativity and a lot of,
you know, being brutally honestis one thing, but doing it in a
degrading way is another thing.
And I think, you've just set upsuch a community that I think I
(35:21):
mentioned this when you firstreached out to me that like, I'm
glad it's not seen that I'mbugging you all in the group
because I post so much, but it'sjust, there's a sense of safety
and like I can go to this groupand get the answers that I need.
And also feel supported.
and not to say that like harshcritique is bad.
I would love that harshcritique, but I get it in such a
(35:43):
loving way, which is just a nicebonus.
so I really just think it's justthat community feel that you've
set up and you've done such agreat job of keeping over the
years, the three months I'vebeen there.
Raymond Hatfield (35:54):
Yeah.
Come on.
Let's be honest here.
I really appreciate that.
hope that I don't sound like abroken record here, but really
it's like, I'm just there, youknow, y'all are the ones who
show up and treat each otherthat way.
it's not just me.
it's really you.
And I think that that's whatmakes so great, and I try to
figure out, like, why is thishappening?
(36:14):
You know, why is everybody sonice in this group?
Why does everybody want to begenuinely helpful when I, like
you, I've been in otherphotography groups, and it's not
the same way, and I think I'mjust kind of on this never
ending quest to figure out,like, why, why are people acting
this way?
Like, I love it, don't get mewrong, but are they just leaving
the group if it's not for themor like,
Elizabeth DeVoe (36:35):
I've got to go.
Yeah, exactly.
I think too, part of it waslike, knowing, obviously like I
hadn't have not met you, but Ifeel like once you listen to a
podcast, podcasts are veryintimate.
You listen to one for so longthat you feel like, you know,
the people in it, which is, Idon't know if that's weird for
(36:56):
you to hear, because obviouslyyou don't know all of your
listeners.
You've invited your listenersinto your life.
And so once.
Like we jump over to theFacebook group, we kind of have
that in the back of our minds.
Like we know about you and like,we kind of get the vibe that you
give off and just the kindnessthat you carry with yourself.
(37:18):
And so maybe that's part of ittoo, is that we come over with
that knowledge.
And that kind of background onyou versus just like joining a
random group where you have noface or voice behind who runs
it.
I don't know.
I don't know if that contributesto that.
Raymond Hatfield (37:34):
That's funny because in obviously on the
podcast, I'm very nice, but inreal life, I'm a very angry
person.
I like to yell at strangers.
So I'm glad that I don't giveoff the vibe of, uh, of my real
life personality.
So, it's obviously working.
This is fantastic.
Elizabeth DeVoe (37:47):
Um, yeah,
Raymond Hatfield (37:50):
so yeah, if you run into me on the streets,
I will scream.
I will be very upset.
don't talk to me.
wouldn't that be the weirdest,anyway, so same thing to think
about.
I want to know for you, like,what is next for you?
Because we, you've gotten tothis point to where you're at,
like, what are some things thatyou see need, that you need more
education on, that you need morepractice with maybe that you
(38:12):
need, physically, what's nextfor you in photography?
Elizabeth DeVoe (38:16):
So I think there's a lot of technical
things, of course, that I cancontinue to work on if I'm being
honest, though, I think the onething I'm going to do is take a
step back, but not fromphotography itself, I think for
those first, these first fewmonths, it has been.
If I'm not actively teaching infront of six and seven year
olds, it's been my fullconsumption, which has been
(38:39):
amazing.
I've enjoyed every second of it,but I also stopped listening to
music because of that.
And I think, and I don't know, Ifeel like Callum said this early
on that, like, he got a lot ofinspiration from music.
and I think that because thingskind of took off rapidly within
a few weeks, which I didn'texpect, my mind went more to the
(39:00):
business side of things when I'mjust not, I think I can pursue
that somewhat, but I'm not thereyet.
It's still so new to me, and Ithink things just took off so
fast that I want to take a stepback to enjoy it.
And to start taking those walksaround my neighborhood again and
finding all those small thingsthat I like to photograph.
(39:20):
so for me, I think that's mynext step is to, I don't know if
that makes sense, but tocontinue just learning and
educating myself as much as Ican.
And.
Taking a step back from thebusiness side of it right now,
because again, it's only been afew months and that feels like
it started to, in the last fewweeks, kind of take over and I
have a lot to learn and I have alot to keep going with.
Raymond Hatfield (39:42):
Again, I love that, that self realization,
because when it comes to thebusiness side, I can tell you
that like, it can be a grind.
So like the longer that you cankeep photography fun, the more
you're going to enjoy it forlonger, obviously.
So that's, that's awesome.
I love to hear that.
I know that I interrupted youearlier when I asked if there
was any particular standoutepisodes of the podcast.
(40:04):
Was there anybody else who youhad on that list aside from
Andrew Billington?
Elizabeth DeVoe (40:07):
There is and I don't want to butcher her name.
Adesina is her last name.
O R E.
Oh, my goodness.
You know what?
I apologize.
I'm gonna take a step backbecause one of your episodes
made me go find another episodeand I don't believe she was on
your podcast.
Raymond Hatfield (40:25):
Okay, but this person stood out to you?
Well now I have to know who itis.
Elizabeth DeVoe (40:30):
Because I listened to Michael Sasser.
Raymond Hatfield (40:33):
Okay, yeah.
Elizabeth DeVoe (40:34):
Okay, so I started there when I was
thinking about Boudoir.
So I listened to Michael Sasserand you had one other Boudoir
person on there.
Who I can't recall her name, butshe was very specific.
And like, I'm hesitant to callit boudoir.
Like she's the one that broughtlike intimate portraits into my.
Um, so I listened to those twoepisodes and those kind of got
(40:55):
me started on that journey.
I'll spell out the other one foryou if you'd like.
Raymond Hatfield (41:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
I'll write it down.
I
Elizabeth DeVoe (41:01):
got that one mixed up.
her first name is O R E.
I don't think it's or.
And it's Adesina is her lastname.
A D E S I N A.
Raymond Hatfield (41:12):
I'm definitely going to reach out.
What was it about her then thatresonated with you so much?
Elizabeth DeVoe (41:17):
Same thing with the others.
It's really just, I mean, theway she phrased it was like, I'm
not going to tell you what todo.
I'm going to tell you get intoyour cuddle position, like is
something that she said.
And then I'm just going tocapture that moment.
Like it was, along the samelines of like the Andrew
Billington thing, of really justlike capturing those moments.
I'm really drawn to those.
(41:37):
I just recently listened to the,Unposed episode.
And like, those are the ones I'mreally interested in.
It's just capturing thosegenuine moments, those questions
and those prompts that you canask.
I found that asking coupleswhat's for dinner is really
funny to them because for somereason at 12 pm, 1 pm, they have
no clue and they just startlaughing.
Um, so like just getting those,just learning how to capture
(42:01):
those genuine moments, learninghow to create that space.
I'm drawn to those episodes forsure.
Raymond Hatfield (42:06):
Wonderful.
I love it.
Well, there's definitely a spacefor it.
So don't feel like I guess maybethis isn't a message to you, but
just others listening to where,you feel like you have to post
people and they have to lookperfect.
And, like everybody wants to beon the cover of Vogue.
That's not the case.
And there's absolutely I mean, Iwould go as far to say like, I
think that The majority ofpeople just want photos of
(42:29):
themselves and who they areauthentically, they're just
taught, or they have thispreconceived idea that
photography is something otherthan that.
And we've just gotten to a placeto where it doesn't have to be
anymore.
And it can, you know, it doesn'tcost us 1 or 2 every time we
take a photo.
So now we can be moreexperimental with our photos and
(42:50):
get more photos That people aregonna like so I would just say
stick with that and if that'sreally calling you inside like
don't worry about anything elselike don't focus on anything
else because if you can get aphoto that makes somebody say to
themselves like wow this is meor wow this is us there's
nothing more powerful in theentire world the photo could be
crazy grainy it could even be alittle bit out of focus way
(43:12):
overexposed and if they say thatThat's all that matters.
That's all that
Elizabeth DeVoe (43:16):
matters.
And I, cause I do think thatlike there is a time and place
for posing sometimes, but Ithink of it, this is a very in
my brain comparison, but I thinkof it like a preset almost like
you are the preset, you are justbeing you, I'm going to stick
that on there.
Like you're just you.
And then I might tweak it alittle bit.
I might say, Oh, just move yourhand here a little bit.
It's cut off.
(43:37):
Or.
Yeah.
turn just slightly this way.
Like, that's kind of how I thinkof it.
I don't know if that makes anysense.
Raymond Hatfield (43:44):
Perfect sense.
In fact,
Elizabeth DeVoe (43:45):
I might tweak you a little bit.
Raymond Hatfield (43:47):
I've never thought about it that way.
But, when you say it like that,that's exactly right.
that's exciting to think about.
That is so fun.
we are the preset.
We are the, so we just, we leavethem as they are and then we
just tweak it.
Elizabeth DeVoe (44:00):
Yeah.
I got to think about that onefor a
Raymond Hatfield (44:02):
while.
Elizabeth DeVoe (44:02):
I just recently did an intimate session with my
couple friends, which is one ofthe first things I feel very,
very proud of.
and that's kind of how Iexplained it to them.
I was like, be prepared to justlike, be you.
Cause if I do any intimates,like I'm definitely going to do
a consultation with you before,like, even if you're my best
friend, we're going to talkabout those first.
and that's what I told them.
I was, I was like, I'm going tojust, Capture you as you are and
(44:24):
I might just ask you to likemove your foot a little bit or I
think as Michael Sasser saidyou're going to arch your back
and point your toes a lot.
but other than that, like justbe you.
Raymond Hatfield (44:35):
that all comes down to that customer service
background.
Having that consultation beforeagain, that's, really going to
help you out in the long run.
But again, don't focus onbusiness.
Don't focus on business.
Don't focus on social media.
Don't focus on any of that.
Unfollow all the photographerswho you follow.
Just focus on your craft.
Get to a point to where you loveyour work, consistently, and
(44:57):
then everything else will justfall into place.
Elizabeth DeVoe (44:59):
But the fact that I'm still enjoying it as
much as I am with all of thatadded, like with the crazy
business y stuff and the socialmedia and all of that technic
ness.
The fact that I'm still lovingit as much as I am gives me a
lot of hope.
Good,
Raymond Hatfield (45:13):
good.
Elizabeth, we're at the end ofour time here.
Before I let you go, can you letus know, where we can find you
online?
Aside from the group, where canwe see more of your photos?
Elizabeth DeVoe (45:23):
Sure.
So my Facebook and Instagram arethe same.
It's just Elizabeth DeVoephotography.
I do have an intimate, Instagrampage.
It's Intimate Portraits byEllie.
E L L I E.
And that's it.
Raymond Hatfield (2) (45:37):
All right, huge.
Thank you to Elizabeth forcoming on the podcast.
Your one action item fromtoday's interview with Elizabeth
is to shoot for free to gainexperience.
You know, shooting for free doesnot ruin or devalue photography
when it's done correctly.
You heard how valuable they werefor Elizabeth, and I can attest
(45:57):
to, how powerful they have beenfor me as well.
So think of the type of workthat you wanna shoot and then
ask yourself if you know anybodywho would be able to help you
achieve that.
Whether it be a friend with afamily, relative getting
married, or maybe your neighboris a local shop owner, you know,
whatever.
Then it's all about how you sellit.
So rather than labeling them asquote unquote free sessions,
(46:20):
like you're just giving themaway to anybody.
Reach out and tell them thatyou're working on something new
in one, because you are.
It could be a new lightingtechnique.
It could be a new posing flow.
Whatever it is that you wannahone your skills on, that's
fine.
Tell them and then ask if they'dbe willing to help you out.
And then of course you'll sendthem the photos once the shoot
is over.
(46:40):
After somebody agrees.
Now plan out exactly what it isthat you need.
Maybe you need a specific poseor composition or maybe you're
working on your lighting, youknow, whatever it is.
But you have to plan it out sothat when the day for the shoot
comes, you go and you get it.
This isn't simply about justhaving somebody in front of your
camera.
This is about making the most ofit.
So that at the end of yourshoot, you will have grown your
(47:02):
portfolio to share and you willhave made somebody happy.
There you go.
That's it for today.
Remember to come join our freeand amazing community of
photographers just like you,looking to learn and grow your
skills by heading over tobeginner photo pod.com/group
now.
Thanks again for listening totoday's episode, and remember,
the more that you shoot today,the better of a photographer you
(47:24):
will be tomorrow.
Talk soon.
I do send out a questionnaire at first.
(00:01):
Just to specify like, okay, whatcombinations of photos would you
like?
So I know all of that before, sowe don't have to waste our time
talking about that.
And like, if there's anyspecific goals for this?
So like one of them she's due inDecember, so she wanted to
capture that.
One of them's like, we wantthese for holiday cards.
So those are good things toknow.
So I don't have to like, findthat out in those 15 minutes.
Raymond Hatfield (2) (00:22):
Hey, welcome to the Beginner
Photography Podcast.
I'm your host, Raymond Hatfield,and each week I interview one of
the world's most interestingphotographers to learn what it
really takes to capturebeautiful images so that you can
start to do the same.
And in today's rewind episode,we are chatting with community
member Elizabeth Devo aboutbalancing a full-time teaching
career with learningphotography.
(00:43):
It can be rough.
But first, the BeginnerPhotography Podcast is brought
to you by Cloud Spot.
Simplify your business withstudio management, organize
clients, send professionalcontracts, automated invoices,
and more.
Keeping track of everything inyour photography business just
got a whole lot easier.
And the best part, you can grabyour free forever account today
(01:03):
over@deliverphotos.com and onlyupgrade when you and your
business are ready.
Elizabeth is one of thoseshining stars in the group,
honestly.
She always has something warm tosay and incredibly excited to
soak up as much knowledge ashumanly possible in the group.
One thing I love about thisgroup is that it has become a
place where if you participateconsistently over time, you can
(01:27):
see your body of work evolve andgrow.
And that's exactly what I see inElizabeth's work, as you'll
hear, she started in photographypretty much by accident and
honed her skills.
worked harder at getting better,and now can honestly say that
she's an amazing photographer.
So in today's episode, you willlearn how to embrace your
passion by simply experimentingbecause of work.
(01:48):
You know, sometimes you cannotdedicate huge chunks of time to
learning, and Elizabeth sharesgreat advice on how to make
measurable progress without muchtime.
You'll also learn how to createa creative routine and how to
develop a genuine clientapproach, focusing on comfort
over perfection so that you cancreate images that are genuine
and personal.
(02:09):
And remember, I found Elizabethbecause she participates in the
free and amazing beginnerphotography podcast community,
and I would love to see youthere too.
So come join us by heading overto beginner photo pod.com/group.
Again, beginner photopod.com/group.
And with that, let's go aheadand get on into today's
interview.
Raymond Hatfield (02:29):
I just want to know who you are and what you
do.
Like what is your day job andwhat got you started in
photography?
Elizabeth DeVoe (02:37):
Awesome.
Well, I am Elizabeth DeVoe.
I am a first grade teacher herein Atlanta.
I have been doing photographyfor about three months now since
maybe August.
A very, very, very short amountof time.
I couldn't tell you what had mepick it up this time.
I, about a year ago in themiddle of the pandemic, bought a
(02:58):
very cheap to me, Canon Rebel XSfrom a friend.
I think she gave it to us forlike 40 or 50 bucks.
We were doing some other workfor her.
So she just was like, here itis, not using it anymore.
Take it.
I picked it up.
I took a picture of my dog.
And my dining room, and it wasso bad that I was like, this
camera's broken.
(03:18):
This camera's done.
This is to no put it away for atleast a year.
Didn't touch it.
And I'm not sure if it was just,I needed an escape from.
Like the demands of work thisyear or what it was.
I don't know what I was lookingfor in August, but that was the
beginning of the school year.
So I can assume it was probablythat that had me pick it up and
(03:40):
was like, well, let me see if itwas me.
That was the reason I can't,that photo was not so great.
so I picked it back up again,looked at just a few things and
really just immediately fell inlove with it that time.
I don't know what was differentfrom that time versus a year
ago, but.
The first time I took it aroundmy neighborhood, it was like an
immediate, I've never fallen inlove with something that
(04:00):
quickly.
And it's kind of just been anobsession since then.
Raymond Hatfield (04:04):
Okay.
So, uh,
Elizabeth DeVoe (04:06):
no, no,
Raymond Hatfield (04:08):
I love all of that.
And I think that your story isgoing to resonate with a lot of
people because of that fact thatlike you bought a camera or you
got.
And you think, correct me if I'mwrong, but you think that when
you get this camera, you'relike, oh, amazing photos are
coming my way.
Like, this is going to befantastic.
And then that first photo thatyou take, for all intents and
purposes here is, was garbage.
And you think to yourself, Youthink to yourself, Oh no, like
(04:32):
this is not, what I thought thatit was going to be.
So then you put it down.
And I think that a lot of peopleget into that position, but then
obviously something compelledyou to pick up that camera again
and keep going.
So you said that it was aroundAugust.
I mean, was it just on the shelfor did you see something on
Instagram and you thought, Hey,I kind of want to try that.
Like, what was it that kind ofsparked that initial.
(04:55):
Let me try this again.
Elizabeth DeVoe (04:57):
You know, I knew you would ask me that and
I've been trying to think ofwhat it was for like weeks now.
Raymond Hatfield (05:02):
Legitimately nothing, huh?
Elizabeth DeVoe (05:03):
I really have.
so I have this little nook in myhouse that's always been kind of
my creative space.
at the beginning of thepandemic, my partner and I
realized we kind of, you know,We loved being together, of
course, but we also needed tocreate our own spaces if we were
going to be together all thetime.
So I had my little creative nookin my house and that's where I,
used to, um, hopefully still doit sometimes, paint.
(05:24):
I paint, I play piano a littlebit.
I say that I'm learning piano alittle bit.
so that's just kind of my littlearea.
So it was sitting in my littlecreative zone.
And, my kind of release afterwork is walking my dog around
the block and walking into thepark across the street.
So I took it out one day with mejust to kind of see what was
around and took it.
(05:46):
One of the first photographs Iremember taking is there's this
like half fallen down mailboxacross my street.
That's just covered in vines andit's really cool looking and I
loved the photo I took.
Not necessarily that I took itbut I loved the subject that I
took and it was just sointeresting to me that I just
kept taking them from there.
I really think it was justlooking for a release and
(06:06):
looking for something new.
I kind of am a person that goesfrom hobby to hobby to hobby.
And so this was like well let metry this out.
And this one hopefully willstick a lot longer than others.
Raymond Hatfield (06:18):
So this is where you're at today.
This is great.
So I love that you are still sorelatively new in this journey
because kind of helps me figureout like, what are the things
that you're struggling withmost?
because having been theremyself, like, I know the
answers.
I just need to know like what isthat source?
So when you went out and tookthat photo of that half broken
(06:39):
mailbox covered in vines, areyou shooting an auto?
Are you shooting an aperturepriority?
What's your technical knowledgeof photography at this point?
Elizabeth DeVoe (06:47):
I believe I was shooting an aperture priority at
that point.
did you have
Raymond Hatfield (06:50):
any idea what that meant?
Elizabeth DeVoe (06:52):
A little bit.
Only because I couldn't tell youwho it was, but I had signed up
for like a five day, likechallenge of kinds that like the
first day they told you they'dsend you a little article and it
was about, aperture.
The second day it was aboutshutter speed.
The second, third day was about.
X, Y, and Z, all of thedifferent things.
And so it had little practicepoints through there.
(07:12):
So I was starting to becomefamiliar with those terms.
And so I started an aperturepriority of Jubilee, just
because that was the one thatmade most sense to me.
Like the aperture part.
And I was like, okay, let'sstart here.
Raymond Hatfield (07:27):
Okay.
So you left that photo, right?
You took it and you thought,this is fantastic.
I'm going to, make a serious goat this.
what's your learning path?
Like, how do you intend to learnphotography?
What was the first thing that,that you had thought of?
Was it, I need to go to alibrary?
Was it, I need to look onYouTube?
where did that lead you?
Elizabeth DeVoe (07:45):
It honestly was podcasts.
Hi.
use Spotify a lot and I justsearched, you know, photography
one day.
And, I don't remember if yourswas the very first.
I know it was at least the firstor second that I found though,
because obviously I was abeginner.
So that was probably what Ityped in.
And I straight just listened tothe first before I started
(08:05):
scattering off into the episodesto fit my interests a little
more.
I listened to the first 20 or30, like straight through.
And that was honestly where Ilearned a lot.
I think I told you this on amessage, but through those
first, I don't remember if itwas around episode 10 or so, the
triangle series.
On
Raymond Hatfield (08:23):
manual
Elizabeth DeVoe (08:23):
within a week or two of picking up the camera.
Raymond Hatfield (08:27):
That's amazing.
I love to hear that.
That is so cool.
So I want to ask why it was
Elizabeth DeVoe (08:32):
great, but I was on it.
Raymond Hatfield (08:34):
Yeah, that's a start, right?
That's a start where we're allterrible drivers that, you know,
15 or whatever, but we getbetter in time, hopefully.
Um, like what made you think,photography is such a visual
medium.
What made you think, I want totry to learn photography through
audio.
Like, I don't want to seeexamples.
I want to learn photographythrough, through podcasts.
Elizabeth DeVoe (08:54):
I honestly, that was probably, A big part of
my grad school brain comingback, like in grad school, I was
so busy all the time that I feltlike the only time that I had me
time was when I was driving.
And so I basically only listento it when I'm driving.
On my drive to work and on mydrive back.
So that was a big part of it.
Raymond Hatfield (09:16):
This is just like a personal curiosity here.
Are you like trying to writedown things or memorize things?
If something comes up so thatyou can practice later, or how
do you retain that information?
Elizabeth DeVoe (09:25):
A lot of rewind, a lot of replay, as well
as following the people thatyou're interviewing.
Like, especially if it's, peoplethat are really sticking with
me, I immediately go and followthem and kind of make a mental
note to go look at, look at thatlater and remind myself of why.
Raymond Hatfield (09:41):
Anybody who's, who stands out in particular,
Elizabeth DeVoe (09:44):
do you see me looking at my notes over here?
Raymond Hatfield (09:47):
You're prepared.
I love it.
Yes.
Elizabeth DeVoe (09:49):
The first one that I remember was, I think his
name was Andrew Billington.
Raymond Hatfield (09:53):
Okay.
Yeah.
Elizabeth DeVoe (09:54):
And it was specifically not so much the
wedding side of it, but thedocumentary side of it.
And that has basically been myapproach since listening to
that, as well as listening tolike you, you talk so much
about, capturing the momentsversus anything else.
And so that's kind of been myapproach since then.
Why do you think that
Raymond Hatfield (10:14):
stood out to you so much?
Elizabeth DeVoe (10:16):
That's a good question.
It's just, for me, like, I hatebeing in front of the camera.
And I hate posing.
And I don't want to pose otherpeople.
And not because, I do, because Ido think, like, posing is for
certain occasions.
sometimes, like, I do boudoirstuff as well.
And, like, that can definitelybe a time where posing is more
needed or wanted.
(10:38):
but on the whole, it's just, Ilove just the way Andrew like
captures the day.
I think he says like your dayexactly as it was or something
along those lines.
Don't quote me on that.
But I just, I like capturing themoments just as they were
versus, hey, look over here, saycheese.
I want you to be exactly who youare and let me just like stop
(10:59):
that moment in time.
Raymond Hatfield (11:02):
So from the beginning, right?
We got this photo of a halfbroken mailbox covered in vines.
And then you hear this.
Elizabeth DeVoe (11:08):
Somebody's mailbox.
Raymond Hatfield (11:10):
I hope that they listen to this.
So, how does it go from that toyou wanting to photograph, you
know,
Elizabeth DeVoe (11:17):
it definitely started I said, it was a lot
just around the neighborhoodfirst.
and then I did, I kind of justput out some feelers to see if
anyone wanted to do any freesessions.
And, I think I did three myfirst weekend and they were all
so drastically different.
that it definitely had mequestioning some things because
it was just very all over theplace.
I think I had one person want todo a very spooky like smoke bomb
(11:39):
session.
I had a couple who didn't havean engagement session who like
wanted to have that kind ofthing and then I had a cosplay
like person and it was just allover the place but all of them
were so fun and I think for meit was the reaction of them.
It was two of those three peoplespecifically had in a way like
(12:02):
self image concerns, and werevery much like, Hmm, you're not
going to post these anywhere.
Right.
And I was like, well, I wouldlove to, but like, if you don't
want me to, I won't.
And both of them right afterreceiving it, we're like, post
them all.
I love these.
I feel great for like what thiswas.
And I think that just thatreaction really kind of just
like stuck me, stuck me there.
Raymond Hatfield (12:24):
Why do you think it was different?
Do you think that it wassomething that you did?
Obviously, if they have body,concerns, they've had their
photos taken before and they'veseen those photos and they
weren't thrilled with them.
Why do you think once they sawyour photos, they were so happy
with them?
Elizabeth DeVoe (12:39):
I think a lot of times too, like, yes, they've
had their photo taken, but Ithink a lot of, times we take
our own pictures.
Like we take selfies.
Or we have someone like, saycheese real quick at the party
or whatever it is, but I findthat a lot of people, at least
I've never even considered goingand getting professional photos.
Especially people that don'thave families yet.
(12:59):
And like, that's just notsomething that a lot of people,
at least in my friend circle,have ever really done.
And so I think just getting thatlike objective, there we go,
that objective perspective, likeoutside of your own self and
seeing yourself at differentangles than you would take your
own pictures from and notworrying about who's taking the
picture and like just gettingcomfortable and in that setting.
(13:22):
I'm not sure.
I don't know if that answersyour question.
Raymond Hatfield (13:25):
It does, it definitely helps lead me down
the path.
So Did you know these peoplepersonally or were these
complete strangers to you?
You did know them.
Yes, these are
Elizabeth DeVoe (13:32):
all my closest friends,
Raymond Hatfield (13:33):
yeah.
Gotcha.
Okay, so that, does make it alittle easier.
So If these people were completestrangers, do you think that you
would be able to make them feelas comfortable in front of a
camera?
Elizabeth DeVoe (13:43):
It depends on the session.
Like, for example, the thingsthat those people said was, um,
like, the person in the couple,she was like, I've never, loved
how I've looked just genuinelysmiling in a picture.
Like, it was something as simpleas that.
She's like, and you capturedthis specific picture of me
laughing or me smiling, and itwas natural.
Oh, beautiful there.
and I do think it depends on thesession because I just had my
(14:04):
first minis and like, those are15 minute sessions.
And like, I had a family come inand be like, we're very camera
shy.
And I'm like, we're going to dothe best that we can in this 15
minutes and we're going to havefun with it.
But it's definitely a differentexperience than like my two hour
intimate portraits that I can dowith my friends where we can sit
down and we can like just hangout for a minute and we can
relax.
(14:25):
And I've had a consultation withyou before to talk about all of
those things.
So it really just, I think it'spossible in all different
sessions, but it definitely, theapproach changes.
Raymond Hatfield (14:37):
You just really, really jumped on in with
just picking up the camera,essentially within the past
three months to going from
Elizabeth DeVoe (14:44):
it has been wild.
Raymond Hatfield (14:47):
Well, tell me your approach for making, these
strangers, these families feelcomfortable in front of your
camera, just within 15 minutes.
Do you think that that abilitycomes from?
working with children at yourjob, or is this something else?
Are you asking them questions totry to figure out their concerns
and their desires?
Elizabeth DeVoe (15:05):
I do send out a questionnaire at first.
So this is this was my veryfirst time.
This was my I had three familiesthis last weekend, and those
are, I think, outside of oneother family.
The first time I've worked with,like, complete strangers.
So I did send out a,questionnaire with them and just
to specify like, okay, whatcombinations of photos would you
like?
So I know all of that before, sowe don't have to waste our time
talking about that.
(15:26):
And like, what are your, ifthere's any specific goals for
this?
So like one of them was, she'sdue in December, so she wanted
to capture that.
One of them's like, we wantthese for holiday cards.
So those are good things toknow.
So I don't have to like, findthat out in those 15 minutes.
Raymond Hatfield (15:40):
Of course.
Elizabeth DeVoe (15:41):
But outside of that, I do think I'm sorry, is
Raymond Hatfield (15:44):
that the puppet that you were talking
about?
Is that a tail?
Elizabeth DeVoe (15:48):
Yes, sure.
It is.
Oh, look
Raymond Hatfield (15:49):
at that face
Elizabeth DeVoe (15:52):
My goodness, I lost my train of thought.
Oh, but yes, I do think workingwith kids is absolutely a plus
because all of these familieshad children.
I'm also just very naturally,like, if you want a bad dad
joke, I'll tell one, like,
Raymond Hatfield (16:07):
quick, tell me one,
Elizabeth DeVoe (16:09):
don't do that.
That was not on the
Raymond Hatfield (16:13):
spot.
Okay.
Elizabeth DeVoe (16:15):
As well as like, I've worked customer
service my whole life.
You know, even before teaching,teaching is customer service in
a way as well.
But like,
Raymond Hatfield (16:22):
yeah,
Elizabeth DeVoe (16:23):
that's just, that's kind of my whole thing.
Like, yeah, that's awesome.
Goopiness
Raymond Hatfield (16:30):
kind of
Elizabeth DeVoe (16:30):
hits them a little bit.
Raymond Hatfield (16:32):
Yeah.
So just be genuine in, who youare.
And I like how, having thatcustomer service.
is really important.
And I think that it's somethingthat maybe a lot of other
photographers don't think aboutnecessarily.
I always see that like when mostphotographers get into it, they
they'll get into photography.
They love their photos.
They see it as a form of art,which it is, but then when they
(16:53):
go to get people in front of thecamera, they feel as if they're
selling art rather thanproviding a service, right?
And where customer servicedifferences, where it differs is
that in customer service, you'retrying to solve their needs,
right?
Whatever their desires are inthat moment.
And then of course you cantailor your response to that in
the form of your photography.
(17:13):
So I can see why.
You know, you've already had agreat response from your photos.
So going back to those, firstfew sessions and even these
minis that you had, what sort oftechnical challenges did you run
into?
or did you have any concerns orworries coming into them?
Elizabeth DeVoe (17:29):
So many,
Raymond Hatfield (17:30):
so many, you know what?
I would be worried if youdidn't.
So I'm glad that you said that.
Elizabeth DeVoe (17:35):
And honestly, the only reason I started taking
on like actual like paid clientsis because somebody approached
me and I was like, well, thatseems like a good time to start.
but I definitely jumped in veryfast.
I think, Focus is a big, problemfor me right now.
I think, I know I've talked withKim Kimberly a lot about this,
(17:56):
but I know I, I honestly havenot figured out if my camera has
that, that everyone's got thateye tracking, face tracking.
Raymond Hatfield (18:04):
If you're shooting with a.
Is it the excess you said?
It does
Elizabeth DeVoe (18:07):
not.
I didn't think so.
And so I'm sitting there tryingto keep saying, I know you, I
listened to an episode recently,I couldn't tell you which one,
where you're talking about howmuch it takes to change the
focus point on a canon.
And so like, it's constantlydoing that.
So focus has been an issue aswell as editing.
I think I'm definitely stillworking on editing.
And lighting.
(18:28):
Those last
Raymond Hatfield (18:28):
two are going to be things that you're going
to work on forever.
I mean, I still, I stillstruggle with, you know, I
posted in the group a few daysago about yeah, the shadows,
right.
The family portraits that I didafter the ceremony.
Elizabeth DeVoe (18:42):
I had to read the comments to try to figure
out what it was.
I didn't notice.
Raymond Hatfield (18:45):
Oh my gosh.
Well, okay.
So then, yeah, obviously, yeah,that's just something that like,
you're going to just deal withforever, and even with editing,
it's like, now I got to figureout this new thing.
And now apparently Lightroomcame out with like some huge
update that everybody's talkingabout.
And I'm like,
Elizabeth DeVoe (19:01):
well, now I got to figure that
Raymond Hatfield (19:02):
out.
Elizabeth DeVoe (19:02):
So many problems with Lightroom, and I
think it's more so my tabletthat I'm trying to run it on
versus Lightroom, but that'sbeen a really big hurdle.
Raymond Hatfield (19:12):
Lightroom is not a light program.
Let's just say that it isdefinitely considered a pro app
and requires a lot moreresources that it actually
shouldn't require as muchresources as it does.
But, you know, leave that up tothe people at Adobe, I suppose.
Let's go back to the whole,being there in person, the
technicals.
the biggest issue that you'refacing is focus, right?
(19:32):
I can tell you, from personallyusing the Canon XS, which I
think came out in 2008,
Elizabeth DeVoe (19:38):
I think
Raymond Hatfield (19:39):
eight.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
So it's been a while.
It's in digital terms, it's avery old camera and 2008 was
really, I mean, the cusp ofconsumer digital photography as
far as DSLR goes.
So I think that that's somethingthat.
Here's an analogy, right?
I'd been like riding dirt bikesand stuff as I was, young,
(19:59):
right?
But actually taking a motorcycleon the road is an entirely
different experience.
And if anybody knows anythingabout motorcycles, my first road
motorcycle was a 250.
And it's considered to be veryunderpowered, right?
And I was upset.
I was like, Mom, come on, like,I need like a bigger bike, let
me buy a bigger bike.
And she said, No, start with a250.
(20:20):
And even though I didn't wantto, I think that having a bike
that was underpowered forced meto learn how to use it
effectively, right?
Like how to get the most out ofit.
I just assumed that having aproper 600, 750 would be Just a
better all around bike.
I'd have a better experience,but that wasn't the case.
And when I did finally upgradeto a seven 50, I was much more
(20:43):
comfortable in that positionbecause I had already been in
plenty positions where I hadsomething that was underpowered
and I needed to figure out howto make that work.
So kind of tying it back intowhere you are, I think that
having an older camera body,once you really become
proficient in it and learn itslittle nuances, when it is time
for you to upgrade, I mean,you're going to be Light years
(21:04):
ahead of people who just, decideto get into photography and buy
that full frame camera rightaway.
so I would just encourage you tocontinue to, to keep trying and
figure out what's going to workbest.
And if I can give you a little,suggestion here when it comes to
focusing.
You're like, please, yes,anything.
Elizabeth DeVoe (21:21):
Give them all to me.
I wasn't talking to you.
This needs to be your interview.
Raymond Hatfield (21:26):
Not at all.
When it comes to those oldercameras, the center focus point
is always going to be thestrongest.
Because it's going to be a crosstype focus point, whereas all
the others are not.
So that means that if you canonly use that center point,
you're going to have a muchbetter, success rate in the
photos that you get in focus.
Now, obviously in your head, youmight think to yourself, well,
(21:48):
then that means that all myphotos are going to look exactly
the same because people's headsare going to be directly in the
center of the frame, but do alittle YouTube work and figure
out how to do what's called backbutton focusing.
have you looked into this atall?
Elizabeth DeVoe (22:01):
Haven't.
Raymond Hatfield (22:02):
So you know how when you half press the
shutter button, it finds focus,right?
So back button focus removesthat.
So when you half press theshutter, it doesn't focus at
all.
But there's a button on the backof your camera that when you
press it with your thumb, itwill focus.
So what that allows you to dois, if you're standing, 10 feet
away from somebody and they'restanding there, say it's a
(22:23):
couple and they're just hangingout together and they're looking
at each other and they'rekissing or whatever, and you
take 15, 20 photos.
You don't want your camera tospend time refocusing every time
you go to take a photo becauseyou're the same distance away
from them, there's no need torefocus.
So you can get that focus once,and as long as you're in the
same spot, and they're in thesame spot, every time you take a
(22:45):
photo, it's not going to have tospend that time to refocus, and
you know that all those photosare going to be in focus because
you're the same distance away.
And this is one of those thingsthat really helped me increase
my focus.
Hit rate, I suppose, in thosefocus points because, of that
exactly, you know, you're goingto be able to just nail that and
it's going to help you figureout more about focus as well.
(23:06):
As far as like your depth offield, because you're going to
realize if I take a stepforward, they're going to be out
of focus unless I refocus.
If I take a step backwards,somehow they're still in focus
and that's all about depth offield.
And once you figure that out, Ithink through personal
experience.
Again, you're going to be a muchmore competent photographer when
it comes time to upgrade,whether it be your lens or your
(23:30):
camera.
does that make sense?
Does that kind of,
Elizabeth DeVoe (23:32):
yeah, I appreciate it.
I definitely, I had readsomewhere about the center focus
being like ideal, especially forfamily portraits.
And I think this last time I didthat.
For two families and thenswitch.
I did switch to auto focus formy last, just to compare and see
what was that.
And I think definitely, Idefinitely prefer to do it like
(23:57):
a, choose my own focus point andgo from there.
So
Raymond Hatfield (23:59):
of course, I'll
Elizabeth DeVoe (24:01):
definitely look at that, that back button
though.
Raymond Hatfield (24:03):
during your journey here, like while you've
been learning, I want to know,is there anything that you've
been taught or that you've heardthat you thought to yourself,
this doesn't make any sense, orI don't think that this applies
to me or anything that you havefelt.
is wrong information, if thatmakes sense?
Elizabeth DeVoe (24:18):
I was worried I wouldn't have an answer for
that, but I do.
I do.
I think, and I, I don't rememberwho this interview was with
recently that I listened to, buthaving one very specific niche
is something that concerns me.
feeling like I have to choosesomething because I think my
(24:39):
heart is pulled in a couple ofdifferent directions with it.
like I have like my intimateportraits is something that I
really love doing.
I would love to get intoelopements, but I also don't
want to be tied down to thosethings.
And I feel like a lot of timesyou hear photographers say,
like, you have to find yourniche to be successful.
and so the couple of times thatI've heard other photographers
be like, no, I do this, this,this, and this.
(25:00):
Like gives me some comfortbecause I, don't want to be tied
down to just like one or twodifferent things.
I know specializing in a coupleof things is very important.
That way you can get better andbetter at it, but also.
There's so much to photograph.
Like, I want to be tied down tojust one thing.
Um, that's one big thing I'vebeen thinking about.
Raymond Hatfield (25:20):
Okay.
I think that's fair.
And I think that a lot of newphotographers feel a very
similar way because so manyphotographers do, do say that
exact same thing and myself to adegree.
I've said that as well, plentyof times.
So tell me like, what is it thatscares you most about that or
about the idea of that?
Elizabeth DeVoe (25:38):
I think just being limited and I guess I,
maybe I said scared, but maybe,it's just like a concern that I
just don't want to be limited tothat.
I mentioned before, I kind oflike to jump, like I'm a very
restless person.
And so if I'm doing the samething over and over and over
again, I'm going to get a littlerestless with it.
And I guess I'm just hoping thatif I do have to stick or not
(25:59):
have to, but if I do end upsticking with one or two niches
or specific things that Iphotographed that, that But
there's enough variation in itto does that make sense to keep
me engaged or to keep me
Raymond Hatfield (26:11):
it doesn't make sense.
Elizabeth DeVoe (26:12):
Yeah.
Raymond Hatfield (26:12):
Yes.
Okay, next question here.
what's your end goal withphotography.
Elizabeth DeVoe (26:17):
I am very inspired by oh my goodness I
should have written his namedown.
You'll probably recognize thathe does elopement, as well as
like the anti boudoir.
and he has such a unique style.
He also does tattooing on theside.
I'll have to find his name.
Raymond Hatfield (26:35):
Is it Dylan Howell?
Elizabeth DeVoe (26:36):
No,
Raymond Hatfield (26:38):
no.
Elizabeth DeVoe (26:39):
I'll find it for sure.
Raymond Hatfield (26:41):
Did I interview
Elizabeth DeVoe (26:42):
them
Raymond Hatfield (26:42):
on the
Elizabeth DeVoe (26:42):
podcast?
I think so.
Raymond Hatfield (26:44):
Okay.
Elizabeth DeVoe (26:45):
But anyway, I'll have to find it
Raymond Hatfield (26:46):
anyway.
Elizabeth DeVoe (26:47):
No, maybe not.
Anyway, his name is Chewy.
Okay.
Okay.
but he does, elopements thatkind of turn into more intimate
sessions.
And like, that's something I'mvery drawn to.
So my end goal, honestly, islike, I've loved the, I hesitate
to call it boudoir, but theintimate portraits, the
elopements, the kind of smaller,more like emotional stuff.
(27:11):
It's really what I've been.
Hello.
So that would be, if I had anend goal in mind, like right
now, I'm not saying that itwon't change.
That would be it is headingtowards the instrument through
elopement, like kind of world.
Raymond Hatfield (27:28):
Do you see yourself leaving?
Elizabeth DeVoe (27:31):
I would like to,
Raymond Hatfield (27:32):
yes,
Elizabeth DeVoe (27:33):
that would be the end goal.
I would like to, again, I'veonly been doing this a few
months, so I don't want to likespeak too much for myself right
now, but it seems to be going ina direction that puts that in
the realm of possibilities.
Raymond Hatfield (27:47):
Okay.
So I don't know If you recognizethis or not, but knowing that,
that you've entertained the ideaof leaving teaching.
And when I asked you what it isthat, you know, what's your end
goal, what is it that you wantto shoot?
You only really mentioned onething.
And that was elopements thatturned into intimate portraits.
Right?
Right.
I think that, obviously, I wasgoing to say, if you have no
(28:10):
intentions of leaving teaching,then there's no need to niche
down at all.
The only reason why niching downis, I think, recommended, is not
so much that you can get betterat one specific thing, but when
it's, you're known for that onething, like if you only
photographed headshots of CEOs.
Just an example here.
(28:30):
Who do you think a business isgonna call?
Do you think they're gonna callsomebody who does a little bit
of families, a little bit ofweddings, right?
You know, a little bit of minisessions and then sometimes they
do headshots.
So from a business perspective,that's all that it is, right?
You don't buy a Coke because youwant a Sprite.
Yeah, you buy a coke becausecoke does one thing and it does
(28:52):
it well and it knows what it isNow from personal experience I
can tell you I mean I shootweddings.
I market myself as a weddingphotographer I'll shoot anything
like if my neighbors want familyphotos.
I'll go photograph that am Igoing to photograph my kids?
Of course i'm going tophotograph my kids, I'm not just
gonna look at them and be like,sorry only weddings and
engagements guys.
(29:12):
No photos today
Elizabeth DeVoe (29:14):
See you later.
Raymond Hatfield (29:15):
Yeah, exactly.
So I think that concern that youhave, I wouldn't worry about it
too much.
You'll always find a space to beable to photograph whatever it
is that you want.
And legitimately, myrecommendation is for anybody
who's been shooting less thanfive years is to literally take
every single opportunity thatyou have to photograph anything,
whatever it is, food,commercial, real estate,
(29:39):
wedding, whatever it is.
Take that, because I think rightnow, while your heart is telling
you like, elopements andintimate portraits are my thing,
scientifically, there's just noway that you know for sure.
I mean, until you photographeverything.
You could find thatarchitectural, architectural,
architecture photography is yourthing, you might figure that
(30:02):
out.
So I would encourage you don'ttry to limit yourself right now.
If that thing comes up.
You're going to find it, andthen you'll just go down that
path.
Elizabeth DeVoe (30:10):
You're absolutely right.
I think one thing that I thinkabout when it comes to that,
that kind of puts it at theforefront of my of my mind is
one of the other biggest thingsI struggle with, which is social
media.
And, you go to thesephotographers pages, and
everything is so consistent inlike their style is very clear.
And like, you go to my page andit's got like, it's from the
(30:32):
beginning of my painting journeyabout three years ago, four,
five years ago.
Like it's got my first picturefrom then to the last photo I
took.
And it's just a hodgepodge ofeverything.
And I'm always like, thisdoesn't look appealing to
probably anybody but me becauseit's my personal journey but
like, there's no style there's aleaf on this photograph a train
(30:53):
on this one in a person on thisone because I'm taking pictures
of everything.
But I remember one thing I heardsomebody say it was like, post
the things that you want totake.
Or, and so even if you'rephotographing everything, like
advertise or post the ones thatyou want to continue taking.
Raymond Hatfield (31:10):
Yeah.
Elizabeth DeVoe (31:11):
Which I struggle with
Raymond Hatfield (31:13):
again, I don't mean this to downplay your
skills and your abilities.
I think you're just still verynew in this whole journey.
Absolutely.
And it's not something that youcould possibly know.
You know what I mean?
Right.
Like, unless you could tell me,I only shoot.
Elopements for couples between,28 and 40
Elizabeth DeVoe (31:31):
years.
I think I've never even shot anelopement.
I'm saying that just becausethat's what I want.
Like, that's what no, of course.
We've been done it.
Raymond Hatfield (31:37):
Yes.
Exactly.
And that's what I'm saying.
how do you expect to have somesort of cohesive social media
presence?
When you haven't figured out theone thing that lights you up the
most that you want tophotograph.
You're right.
Yeah.
Challenge you to just get offsocial media.
Just say, forget social mediafor now.
Don't even worry about it.
You know, here's anotherquestion.
(31:59):
Is that when it comes to socialmedia, did you find it inspiring
or do you find it kind of,almost like, Oh, I wish I was
that good.
do you feel more positive vibesor negative reaction?
Elizabeth DeVoe (32:10):
I think if I'm looking to it for a specific
purpose, So for example, likebefore my boudoir sessions, I
would look on there for specificposes or for specific lighting.
It can be useful.
outside of that, it's like, oh,these are gorgeous.
One day I'll be there.
I definitely, I remember hearingsome of the people that you
interviewed talk about thebeginning of their journey and
how they literally went andunfollowed everybody.
(32:32):
Like unfollowed all thephotographers.
Cause it's just like, didn't askfor critique and just, cause
it's overwhelming.
It can definitely beoverwhelming.
Raymond Hatfield (32:40):
Yeah.
What did you feel about that?
Elizabeth DeVoe (32:43):
It's definitely a suggestion that like I've
considered and I attempted tonot ask for too much critique
for a little while until I got,more concerned with my editing
because that's always a struggleas well.
Um, but I don't know, I mean, Ithink for a little while it can
be good advice until you find,the thing is, is I think part of
the reason I've put so muchpressure on it this early is
(33:05):
that there's much knowledge andthere's so many people willing
to help.
And there's so much informationthat I feel like, almost like
there's no excuse for me not todo well.
Does that make sense?
Like, I feel like all of theanswers are within my reach.
So if I'm not succeeding, it'son me for not going to go and
(33:27):
get those answers.
I don't know if that makessense.
Raymond Hatfield (33:30):
A hundred percent, a hundred percent.
I love that personalresponsibility.
That's great.
So then, when it comes to,looking for critiques, I really
think that there's two differentaspects of your photos being
critiqued.
It's both the technical side andthen the artistic side.
And what's difficult is that youcan't really critique the
artistic side because you don'tknow what you're trying to say
artistically.
So at this point, like, askingfor feedback, I think, can still
(33:52):
be really relevant, as long asyou frame it in a technical
question, you know?
Why did I miss focus?
how much depth of field shouldthis photo have?
is this photo too underexposed?
Is it too overexposed?
You know, what do you thinkabout white balance in this
photo?
When you frame it from atechnical standpoint, I think
that you're going to get moreinformation out of the critiques
(34:13):
that you get.
whereas with social media, likeit's really hard to get that
unless you're in some sort ofgroup, obviously like the
beginner photography podcast,Facebook group, that's where I
found you.
Can I ask how, how did you findthe group
Elizabeth DeVoe (34:25):
through the podcast?
Like I said, I think justsearching through Spotify and
finding the podcast and thenhearing about the Facebook
group.
Raymond Hatfield (34:32):
What made you want to join?
there's a million photographygroups online.
what made you want to join?
Elizabeth DeVoe (34:38):
obviously it was, geared towards beginners,
which was very helpful.
I think more so, like what mademe stick to this group more than
any other is you've just createdsuch a community of.
Honesty, but also respect.
I'm in a few other likephotography groups and some
local groups.
(34:58):
And you can't go a week withoutand I'm not I'm not bashing any
other group, but there's justnot that.
sense of community set in thosegroups.
and there can just be some, alot of negativity and a lot of,
you know, being brutally honestis one thing, but doing it in a
degrading way is another thing.
And I think, you've just set upsuch a community that I think I
(35:21):
mentioned this when you firstreached out to me that like, I'm
glad it's not seen that I'mbugging you all in the group
because I post so much, but it'sjust, there's a sense of safety
and like I can go to this groupand get the answers that I need.
And also feel supported.
and not to say that like harshcritique is bad.
I would love that harshcritique, but I get it in such a
(35:43):
loving way, which is just a nicebonus.
so I really just think it's justthat community feel that you've
set up and you've done such agreat job of keeping over the
years, the three months I'vebeen there.
Raymond Hatfield (35:54):
Yeah.
Come on.
Let's be honest here.
I really appreciate that.
hope that I don't sound like abroken record here, but really
it's like, I'm just there, youknow, y'all are the ones who
show up and treat each otherthat way.
it's not just me.
it's really you.
And I think that that's whatmakes so great, and I try to
figure out, like, why is thishappening?
(36:14):
You know, why is everybody sonice in this group?
Why does everybody want to begenuinely helpful when I, like
you, I've been in otherphotography groups, and it's not
the same way, and I think I'mjust kind of on this never
ending quest to figure out,like, why, why are people acting
this way?
Like, I love it, don't get mewrong, but are they just leaving
the group if it's not for themor like,
Elizabeth DeVoe (36:35):
I've got to go.
Yeah, exactly.
I think too, part of it waslike, knowing, obviously like I
hadn't have not met you, but Ifeel like once you listen to a
podcast, podcasts are veryintimate.
You listen to one for so longthat you feel like, you know,
the people in it, which is, Idon't know if that's weird for
(36:56):
you to hear, because obviouslyyou don't know all of your
listeners.
You've invited your listenersinto your life.
And so once.
Like we jump over to theFacebook group, we kind of have
that in the back of our minds.
Like we know about you and like,we kind of get the vibe that you
give off and just the kindnessthat you carry with yourself.
(37:18):
And so maybe that's part of ittoo, is that we come over with
that knowledge.
And that kind of background onyou versus just like joining a
random group where you have noface or voice behind who runs
it.
I don't know.
I don't know if that contributesto that.
Raymond Hatfield (37:34):
That's funny because in obviously on the
podcast, I'm very nice, but inreal life, I'm a very angry
person.
I like to yell at strangers.
So I'm glad that I don't giveoff the vibe of, uh, of my real
life personality.
So, it's obviously working.
This is fantastic.
Elizabeth DeVoe (37:47):
Um, yeah,
Raymond Hatfield (37:50):
so yeah, if you run into me on the streets,
I will scream.
I will be very upset.
don't talk to me.
wouldn't that be the weirdest,anyway, so same thing to think
about.
I want to know for you, like,what is next for you?
Because we, you've gotten tothis point to where you're at,
like, what are some things thatyou see need, that you need more
education on, that you need morepractice with maybe that you
(38:12):
need, physically, what's nextfor you in photography?
Elizabeth DeVoe (38:16):
So I think there's a lot of technical
things, of course, that I cancontinue to work on if I'm being
honest, though, I think the onething I'm going to do is take a
step back, but not fromphotography itself, I think for
those first, these first fewmonths, it has been.
If I'm not actively teaching infront of six and seven year
olds, it's been my fullconsumption, which has been
(38:39):
amazing.
I've enjoyed every second of it,but I also stopped listening to
music because of that.
And I think, and I don't know, Ifeel like Callum said this early
on that, like, he got a lot ofinspiration from music.
and I think that because thingskind of took off rapidly within
a few weeks, which I didn'texpect, my mind went more to the
(39:00):
business side of things when I'mjust not, I think I can pursue
that somewhat, but I'm not thereyet.
It's still so new to me, and Ithink things just took off so
fast that I want to take a stepback to enjoy it.
And to start taking those walksaround my neighborhood again and
finding all those small thingsthat I like to photograph.
(39:20):
so for me, I think that's mynext step is to, I don't know if
that makes sense, but tocontinue just learning and
educating myself as much as Ican.
And.
Taking a step back from thebusiness side of it right now,
because again, it's only been afew months and that feels like
it started to, in the last fewweeks, kind of take over and I
have a lot to learn and I have alot to keep going with.
Raymond Hatfield (39:42):
Again, I love that, that self realization,
because when it comes to thebusiness side, I can tell you
that like, it can be a grind.
So like the longer that you cankeep photography fun, the more
you're going to enjoy it forlonger, obviously.
So that's, that's awesome.
I love to hear that.
I know that I interrupted youearlier when I asked if there
was any particular standoutepisodes of the podcast.
(40:04):
Was there anybody else who youhad on that list aside from
Andrew Billington?
Elizabeth DeVoe (40:07):
There is and I don't want to butcher her name.
Adesina is her last name.
O R E.
Oh, my goodness.
You know what?
I apologize.
I'm gonna take a step backbecause one of your episodes
made me go find another episodeand I don't believe she was on
your podcast.
Raymond Hatfield (40:25):
Okay, but this person stood out to you?
Well now I have to know who itis.
Elizabeth DeVoe (40:30):
Because I listened to Michael Sasser.
Raymond Hatfield (40:33):
Okay, yeah.
Elizabeth DeVoe (40:34):
Okay, so I started there when I was
thinking about Boudoir.
So I listened to Michael Sasserand you had one other Boudoir
person on there.
Who I can't recall her name, butshe was very specific.
And like, I'm hesitant to callit boudoir.
Like she's the one that broughtlike intimate portraits into my.
Um, so I listened to those twoepisodes and those kind of got
(40:55):
me started on that journey.
I'll spell out the other one foryou if you'd like.
Raymond Hatfield (41:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
I'll write it down.
I
Elizabeth DeVoe (41:01):
got that one mixed up.
her first name is O R E.
I don't think it's or.
And it's Adesina is her lastname.
A D E S I N A.
Raymond Hatfield (41:12):
I'm definitely going to reach out.
What was it about her then thatresonated with you so much?
Elizabeth DeVoe (41:17):
Same thing with the others.
It's really just, I mean, theway she phrased it was like, I'm
not going to tell you what todo.
I'm going to tell you get intoyour cuddle position, like is
something that she said.
And then I'm just going tocapture that moment.
Like it was, along the samelines of like the Andrew
Billington thing, of really justlike capturing those moments.
I'm really drawn to those.
(41:37):
I just recently listened to the,Unposed episode.
And like, those are the ones I'mreally interested in.
It's just capturing thosegenuine moments, those questions
and those prompts that you canask.
I found that asking coupleswhat's for dinner is really
funny to them because for somereason at 12 pm, 1 pm, they have
no clue and they just startlaughing.
Um, so like just getting those,just learning how to capture
(42:01):
those genuine moments, learninghow to create that space.
I'm drawn to those episodes forsure.
Raymond Hatfield (42:06):
Wonderful.
I love it.
Well, there's definitely a spacefor it.
So don't feel like I guess maybethis isn't a message to you, but
just others listening to where,you feel like you have to post
people and they have to lookperfect.
And, like everybody wants to beon the cover of Vogue.
That's not the case.
And there's absolutely I mean, Iwould go as far to say like, I
think that The majority ofpeople just want photos of
(42:29):
themselves and who they areauthentically, they're just
taught, or they have thispreconceived idea that
photography is something otherthan that.
And we've just gotten to a placeto where it doesn't have to be
anymore.
And it can, you know, it doesn'tcost us 1 or 2 every time we
take a photo.
So now we can be moreexperimental with our photos and
(42:50):
get more photos That people aregonna like so I would just say
stick with that and if that'sreally calling you inside like
don't worry about anything elselike don't focus on anything
else because if you can get aphoto that makes somebody say to
themselves like wow this is meor wow this is us there's
nothing more powerful in theentire world the photo could be
crazy grainy it could even be alittle bit out of focus way
(43:12):
overexposed and if they say thatThat's all that matters.
That's all that
Elizabeth DeVoe (43:16):
matters.
And I, cause I do think thatlike there is a time and place
for posing sometimes, but Ithink of it, this is a very in
my brain comparison, but I thinkof it like a preset almost like
you are the preset, you are justbeing you, I'm going to stick
that on there.
Like you're just you.
And then I might tweak it alittle bit.
I might say, Oh, just move yourhand here a little bit.
It's cut off.
(43:37):
Or.
Yeah.
turn just slightly this way.
Like, that's kind of how I thinkof it.
I don't know if that makes anysense.
Raymond Hatfield (43:44):
Perfect sense.
In fact,
Elizabeth DeVoe (43:45):
I might tweak you a little bit.
Raymond Hatfield (43:47):
I've never thought about it that way.
But, when you say it like that,that's exactly right.
that's exciting to think about.
That is so fun.
we are the preset.
We are the, so we just, we leavethem as they are and then we
just tweak it.
Elizabeth DeVoe (44:00):
Yeah.
I got to think about that onefor a
Raymond Hatfield (44:02):
while.
Elizabeth DeVoe (44:02):
I just recently did an intimate session with my
couple friends, which is one ofthe first things I feel very,
very proud of.
and that's kind of how Iexplained it to them.
I was like, be prepared to justlike, be you.
Cause if I do any intimates,like I'm definitely going to do
a consultation with you before,like, even if you're my best
friend, we're going to talkabout those first.
and that's what I told them.
I was, I was like, I'm going tojust, Capture you as you are and
(44:24):
I might just ask you to likemove your foot a little bit or I
think as Michael Sasser saidyou're going to arch your back
and point your toes a lot.
but other than that, like justbe you.
Raymond Hatfield (44:35):
that all comes down to that customer service
background.
Having that consultation beforeagain, that's, really going to
help you out in the long run.
But again, don't focus onbusiness.
Don't focus on business.
Don't focus on social media.
Don't focus on any of that.
Unfollow all the photographerswho you follow.
Just focus on your craft.
Get to a point to where you loveyour work, consistently, and
(44:57):
then everything else will justfall into place.
Elizabeth DeVoe (44:59):
But the fact that I'm still enjoying it as
much as I am with all of thatadded, like with the crazy
business y stuff and the socialmedia and all of that technic
ness.
The fact that I'm still lovingit as much as I am gives me a
lot of hope.
Good,
Raymond Hatfield (45:13):
good.
Elizabeth, we're at the end ofour time here.
Before I let you go, can you letus know, where we can find you
online?
Aside from the group, where canwe see more of your photos?
Elizabeth DeVoe (45:23):
Sure.
So my Facebook and Instagram arethe same.
It's just Elizabeth DeVoephotography.
I do have an intimate, Instagrampage.
It's Intimate Portraits byEllie.
E L L I E.
And that's it.
Raymond Hatfield (2) (45:37):
All right, huge.
Thank you to Elizabeth forcoming on the podcast.
Your one action item fromtoday's interview with Elizabeth
is to shoot for free to gainexperience.
You know, shooting for free doesnot ruin or devalue photography
when it's done correctly.
You heard how valuable they werefor Elizabeth, and I can attest
(45:57):
to, how powerful they have beenfor me as well.
So think of the type of workthat you wanna shoot and then
ask yourself if you know anybodywho would be able to help you
achieve that.
Whether it be a friend with afamily, relative getting
married, or maybe your neighboris a local shop owner, you know,
whatever.
Then it's all about how you sellit.
So rather than labeling them asquote unquote free sessions,
(46:20):
like you're just giving themaway to anybody.
Reach out and tell them thatyou're working on something new
in one, because you are.
It could be a new lightingtechnique.
It could be a new posing flow.
Whatever it is that you wannahone your skills on, that's
fine.
Tell them and then ask if they'dbe willing to help you out.
And then of course you'll sendthem the photos once the shoot
is over.
(46:40):
After somebody agrees.
Now plan out exactly what it isthat you need.
Maybe you need a specific poseor composition or maybe you're
working on your lighting, youknow, whatever it is.
But you have to plan it out sothat when the day for the shoot
comes, you go and you get it.
This isn't simply about justhaving somebody in front of your
camera.
This is about making the most ofit.
So that at the end of yourshoot, you will have grown your
(47:02):
portfolio to share and you willhave made somebody happy.
There you go.
That's it for today.
Remember to come join our freeand amazing community of
photographers just like you,looking to learn and grow your
skills by heading over tobeginner photo pod.com/group
now.
Thanks again for listening totoday's episode, and remember,
the more that you shoot today,the better of a photographer you
(47:24):
will be tomorrow.
Talk soon.
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