November 14, 2024 • 37 mins
#515 In this episode of the podcast, I chat with Steve Rolfe about his captivating creative process using little people figurines in his photography. Steve shares his approach to developing scenarios, prioritizing simplicity in storytelling, and the importance of trial and error.
THE BIG IDEAS
- Plan Your Scenario First: Develop a clear narrative before choosing the location. This foundation ensures your photos tell a compelling story.
- Keep It Simple: Aim for easy-to-understand, organic images. Simplicity enhances the viewer's connection to your work.
- Embrace Trial and Error: Use feedback and iterative improvements to find the right balance in your storytelling. Learning from mistakes is key.
- Stay Inspired: Regularly seek inspiration and let your environment spark new ideas. Consistent creativity keeps your work dynamic and fresh.
PHOTOGRAPHY ACTION PLAN
- Create Small-Scenario Tables: Design miniature sets on small tables or surfaces to experiment with storytelling. Use household items and small figurines to navigate through different scenes.
- Focus on Storytelling Over Location: Outline a brief story for each photo scenario you want to capture. Select locations that naturally complement, rather than dominate, your narrative.
- Simplify Your Compositions: Limit the number of elements in your frame to avoid unnecessary distractions. Use a central subject and minimal props to retain the viewer’s focus.
- Gather Feedback: Share your work with a small, trusted group to receive constructive criticism. Implement the feedback and observe how it transforms your work over time.
- Experiment with Different Props: Visit local hobby shops to find unique miniature items that could add character to your scenes. Test different combinations of props to see what works best with your overall theme.
RESOURCES:
Visit Steve Rolfe's Website - https://www.steverolfephotography.co.uk/
Follow Steve Rolfe on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/steve_rolfe_photography_/
Follow Little People Media on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/little_people_media/
Sign up for your free CloudSpot Account today at www.DeliverPhotos.com
Connect with Raymond!
- Join the free Beginner Photography Podcast Community at https://beginnerphotopod.com/group
- Get your Photo Questions Answered on the show - https://beginnerphotopod.com/qa
- Grab your free camera setting cheatsheet - https://perfectcamerasettings.com/
Thanks for listening & keep shooting!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Steve Rolfe (00:00):
Sometimes less is more.
Sometimes you don't want toovercomplicate because you as
the creator know exactly whatyou're doing but a reader a
viewer might not understand it.
So it can get lost intranslation.
I think keep it smart.
Keep it simple and then thatmakes the reader understand
exactly what's going on.
Raymond Hatfield (00:20):
Hey, welcome to the Beginner Photography
Podcast.
I'm your host, Raymond Hatfield,and each week I interview one of
the world's most interestingphotographers to learn what it
really takes to capturebeautiful images so that you can
start to do the same.
In today's Rewind episode, I'mchatting with creative
photographer Steve Ralph aboutusing his imagination and his
camera to create a very uniquephoto book project.
(00:43):
But first, the beginnerphotography podcast is brought
to you by Cloudspot.
You all know this.
Cloudspot helps you sell yourphotos through prints, products,
and of course, digitals.
You can set up a storefront inminutes and start earning more
with every single gallery.
So grab your free foreveraccount today over at
deliverphotos.
com and only upgrade when youare ready.
(01:04):
Today's guest, Steve has one ofthe most like fun and just
unique photo book projects thatI have received in a while.
Honestly, Steve uses these tinytoy figurines, out in public to
create images that are just funand have this beautiful, like.
Childlike wonder.
So before we get into today'sinterview, I highly encourage
you to check out Steve'sInstagram, which is linked in
(01:26):
the show notes, just so that youcan get an idea of what it is
that we're talking about.
but today, Steve is going toshare a lot about his creative
process.
we talk about, how to createsuch simple images that are so
powerful and impactful withoutbeing overloaded, with too much
context.
We talk about how he pitchedthis quirky concept to
(01:47):
publishers and possibly mostimportantly, Steve talks about
how to maintain a vibrantcreative spirit as you go on
throughout your photographyjourney.
So again, lots to talk about.
So I invite you to join in onthe conversation over in the
free beginner photographypodcast community, which you can
join over at beginner photopod.
(02:07):
com forward slash.
That's it.
Why don't we go ahead and get oninto today's rewind interview
with Steve Ross?
Steve, my first question for youis an easy one.
I just want to know, when didyou know that photography was
going to play an important rolein your life?
Steve Rolfe (02:22):
It was a slow burn.
I think, I dabbled withphotography when I was younger,
just normal film, but you sendaway to get processed and
everything else.
And as a teenager, but nothingreally stuck, you know, I could
take or leave it.
2010 was a watershed time,Christmas, I was in a bookstore,
picked up this book of, streetphotography, and I was
(02:45):
captivated by the images and Ithought, yeah, I could have a go
at this and it really struck achord with me, so I thought,
okay, so I bought the book, Andthen, didn't have a camera, my
wife had a bridge camera, so itwas a Panasonic, so it was, not
a SLR, it was not a compact, itwas in the middle.
So I started doing thephotography, now the book of, I
(03:05):
picked up was the littlearchitectural figures, one and a
half inches high, in the realworld, so I thought, yeah,
Bought my own figures, andstarted the creative process.
And it was, as I said, it was aslow burn because I was doing it
as a hobby at weekends, I wasstill working within civil
service with government job.
It was only when I had a coupleof things published in magazines
(03:28):
and papers of the little people,And when I took redundancy in
2014 from the job, my wife, whois a self employed interior
designer, that was theinspiration for me just to
think, well, why not?
I've been in the job 22 yearsand I thought, yeah, let's just
go, let's take a leap of faithand go for it.
So that's when it all camereally serious for me in 2014
(03:50):
when I started as a professionalphotographer.
But I still do the little peoplethat was where my inspiration
started and the creativity so Istill do scenarios.
so yeah, that's where itstarted.
I suppose 2014 was when itreally got serious.
And that was four years into mysort of career stroke hobby.
Raymond Hatfield (04:07):
Yeah.
the photography journey there.
when you first picked up thatbook of street photography, I
know that, street photography,like you said, it struck a chord
with you.
It strikes a chord with a lot ofpeople.
why, what was it about theimages that you saw that made
you think differently?
would that be the right, term?
Steve Rolfe (04:23):
Yeah, I loved the American TV series of Giants,
and obviously, I saw it not onthe first run, um, how many runs
did it be?
So yeah, I picked it up in the90s when it was being replayed
umpteen times on, over in theUK.
As I said, that was justincredible to see this spaceship
(04:43):
that crash landed on anotherplanet.
And yeah.
they're small, they had theirlife and it was another world
within that world.
So that struck the chord for methat I could do something
similar to that.
So, yeah, I suppose that's whereit was all born out from, was TV
series.
Raymond Hatfield (05:00):
Before this, would you have considered
yourself maybe growing up?
Creative minded?
Did you have these creativeinterests or hobbies or was it
photography that turned the tidefor you?
Steve Rolfe (05:08):
It was photography.
Raymond Hatfield (05:09):
Really?
Steve Rolfe (05:10):
Yeah.
It was photography that reallyset the ball rolling for me.
It set the, sent me on thispath.
and it really creative processwise really did kickstart the
creative.
I can't walk around anywhere nowwithout looking down, without
thinking is that a good photo.
I take the camera everywhere Igo.
If I didn't have that on mymobile phone.
So yeah, I'm always looking totake an image or two and it's
(05:32):
just something that's switchedon now and it's, yeah, it can be
frustrating for some people ifyou're walking in town with your
wife or whatever your son, andit's just like, you know, taking
photographs.
And it's just like, yeah, okay.
Raymond Hatfield (05:46):
No, I get that.
that's something that I hear alot from, listeners as well as,
there's a lot of fear actuallyin bringing your camera out.
cause of privacy concerns,everybody's concerned that,
you're going to pull up a cameraand somebody's going to say,
Hey, what are you doing?
And it becomes confrontationalor whatever.
but you kind of were able to goa different direction than that
with, your images.
I know that, talked about yourbook.
Here we go, small world here inthe intro, but for those who are
(06:07):
either driving or they're at thegym, could you describe the
types of images that are in hereand how you go about capturing
them?
Steve Rolfe (06:14):
The images are street scenes that I've created,
I've taken inspiration from allsorts of places, and it's
basically small little railwayfigures, that you might have on
a, model railway track, and, yousee the little people, and I use
them to, make the scene looknatural.
(06:34):
I put these figures up, and, Icreate scenarios around the
little people.
and the scenarios can be varied.
some have a humor element tothem.
Some have, more thoughtful.
The strangest one I, think Idid, it was a prison break, in
Gloucester where I live, therewas a prison, it's now closed,
and I just had these threelittle figures.
(06:55):
Painters, prisoners, and Ithought, yeah, one Saturday
night, eight o'clock in winter.
So it was dark and I'm thinking,yeah, okay, let's do this.
So I'm ferreting around thebottom of this prison wall with
a torch, putting my littlefigures to create a prison
break.
And there's sirens going off inthe distance.
And I'm thinking, am I reallythis stupid doing this?
I managed to get a few images.
(07:16):
they weren't the best causeobviously with the torch and the
lights and everything else.
And as I always do, I leave thelittle people there, to be found
or to be left, whatever, for amorning went back round and
nowhere to be seen.
So either they were kicked alongor prison officer has gone
around to do a search and theyended up back in prison.
No one knows, but yeah, it's amystery.
(07:39):
Yeah.
So, chocolate bars are prettygood to use, crisps, all sorts
of things that come out with,it's just, whatever's in my mind
at that time, there are parts ofthe book where it's, Welcome to
Britain, where we have burnt outcars and children playing on
burnt out cars, and it's justcreating, a very urban look to
(08:01):
real life, I suppose.
Raymond Hatfield (08:03):
This idea is something, I think when you
first see it, it feels verynovel.
It's oh, I get it.
this is fun.
but I don't think that it'ssomething that many
photographers, maybe newerphotographers would think to
start to put together.
So for you, right, you said thatyou picked up these, the
figures, that go in that are,for train models and whatnot.
Why not just stick to,landscapes or, sunsets like, the
(08:26):
majority of beginners do?
Steve Rolfe (08:28):
I do photograph landscapes, but it doesn't have
that photography.
genre of photography is so vast,and for me, landscape is, there
are some incredible landscapephotographers out there, and
they have no human elementwhatsoever within the image.
It is just nature itself, whichI can appreciate.
(08:49):
but for me with the littlepeople, it started that journey
and inspiration and creativityand I love street.
I love cities and it's thatwhole vibe of life going on.
and you put the little people toone side and then you're just
taking, I do true streetphotography, which is candid,
which is basically catchingpeople.
(09:11):
Going about their dailybusiness, so you had to learn to
judge where you're shooting.
you don't put the camera to yourface, you hold it into your
body.
So it is mid riff.
so that people can't see whatyou're doing because it's huge.
You put your camera up to yourface.
They know exactly what's goingon.
that's why mobile phones arebrilliant because everyone's got
mobile phones and you can takesome photos with a mobile phone.
(09:33):
So it's capturing people, aslong as they're not doing
anything illegal, as long asyou're on public land, It's
creating that image and lookingto see where the light is,
what's coming up, using streetsigns, having some humour to it,
capturing reflections in shopwindows.
it really is endless.
but yeah, that's why I preferthat more than going off doing
landscapes or shooting wildlifeor whatever.
(09:56):
I think everyone has that littleniche, they just can't.
It's just, in the end, she can'tstop scratching
Raymond Hatfield (10:03):
So, when it comes to street photography
though, when I think of streetphotography, It's much more
reactionary, right?
Because you're kind of at themercy of whatever happens around
you.
Like, of course you can look forthings like opposition and
light, but as far as kind of themoment you have to wait for
something to happen.
Whereas these images that youcreate with the tiny people
here.
planning of intention.
(10:23):
So do you feel like it's twodifferent mindsets or do you
feel like it's just simply anextension of one another?
Steve Rolfe (10:29):
it could be an extension of one another.
With the street photography isjust a question of, some
photographers will go out with apoint of departure.
Basically, that means that theywill, Go out with a pure reason
for to shoot a certain specificsubjects where it might be
buses, it might be people withred coats or whatever.
I go out I just emptied my brainor mind of everything and just
(10:51):
see what the street gives me.
With the little people, there'splanning.
of the images in the book is alittle person picking up, things
that have a burger.
It's, The gherkins, as we callthem in England, they're, like
savoury cucumber, and then theyput in certain, mainstream
burger joints, they put them inburgers.
(11:11):
Now I take mine out, percent ofpeople take them out.
And they end up on the floor,people just don't care, they
just stick them on the floor, sowe had this, burger, a meal, was
last year, and I saved some ofthe gherkins.
Put them in a plastic bag intothe fridge for two weeks because
I wasn't ready to use them.
(11:32):
Sourced out what I needed.
I had a little person, a littleroad sweep man to pick them up.
I needed a backdrop of where thegherkins came from.
So you have the correlation, youhave the connection, and then
it's trying to find the pavementso that it Fitted really well so
the man wouldn't be hidden youcan see exactly what's going on.
So I found what I wanted.
(11:53):
uh, took the gherkins out withme.
I took the little person, Ifound the right time of day,
place them onto the floor, ontothe pavement or sidewalk, and
then shoot, the scene.
So then I shoot aperturepriority, because I find it's
the best way, on the cameras ifanyone, if anyone wants to help.
Because then you can focuscentrally, get it nice and
(12:15):
sharp, and then the backdrop isslightly blurred.
So the burger joint is quitewell famous.
you have that in the background,you have the little person
picking up these gherkins, soyou have a complete connection
with what it is.
So it's not just some randomthing on the floor.
and my question, the name that Ioriginally put was YYY, was
(12:35):
because most people take thenight, most people just bin
them, why put them in?
Raymond Hatfield (12:39):
Huh.
wow.
Okay, when looking through thebook, as I think I said earlier,
there's this whimsical qualityto the photos.
As if, you're just walkingalong, you see something,
interesting on the ground,whether it be a piece of trash
or some gherkins on the, on theground.
And then you set up your figuresthat you have there.
but hearing your explanationthere, it sounds Quite a bit of
(12:59):
planning, goes into making theseimages look very organic, is
that right?
Is that the intention?
Steve Rolfe (13:05):
Yeah, that's it.
Yeah, it's organic, yeah.
Over in England we have achocolate bar called Mars.
And that's in the book as well.
So I had some men with chemicalsuits.
And I wanted to do something,and it was around the time when
Mars was being discovered.
And, so I had this Mars bar withme.
Again, I had it with me forabout two weeks, three weeks,
trying to source out a locationthat was good on the sidewalk.
(13:28):
Had the little people, so Ithought, yeah, okay.
So I managed to find a location,had these.
I took the end, I ripped the endoff the Mars wrapper, took a
chunk off the end, so you cansee what's inside it.
I had the Mars wrapper showing,So you know what's going on is
Mars and the little people allwith the asthma chemical suits
all over this chocolate bar andit was basically you don't need
(13:50):
to go to space to explore Mars,
Raymond Hatfield (13:53):
right?
Wow.
So Looking through the book, Imean, that was going to be one
photo that I was going to as anexample, because it just looks,
again, as if you had juststumbled upon that scene, seen
the half eaten Mars bar, putthose guys down, and took the
photo, and you were done.
there are other photos thatdefinitely look like more
planning went into them.
(14:13):
I believe the one called,nothing to see here, there's a
tiny figure and she's cleaningup also a tiny body chalk line,
right?
And I could tell that, youdidn't just stumble upon that
tiny body chalk line, right?
So like you had to manufacturethat.
Are there any photos that youjust, show up and say, this is
great, just the way that it is,here we go, put down my guys
(14:34):
here and, snap the photo andyou're done.
Or does each photo take quite abit of planning and preparation?
Steve Rolfe (14:41):
All take planning.
Wow.
there's only one possible in thebook and it's the one with the
beer can.
And I saw the beer can and itwas in that location.
thought, okay, I can do this.
So I got a replacement beer can,and then I used, the little
people, two police officers.
(15:01):
so that was one of the probablyeasiest ones to create.
so over in the UK, we have aprogram called I'm a Celebrity,
and it's basically celebritiesthat are taken into the
Australian jungle, and they haveto do trials, and they're there
for three weeks, and they, haveto do trials, They can't eat
normal food, whatever they haveto, so and they have bush chukka
(15:22):
trials.
So the original name for thatwas I'm a celebrity.
So he was doing a bush chukkatrial where he was drinking the
beer and he fell out.
So the two police officers arethere waiting to arrest him.
So it was, As I said, that wasprobably one of the easiest ones
I did, because the beer can wasalready there in situ or one was
already there.
And I just thought, yes, thatwould work really well.
Raymond Hatfield (15:44):
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
Okay.
So my whole, thought processwhen coming up with, questions
in my head now has completelychanged because I thought that
the, process of capturing theseimages was, much less involved,
I guess, than what it actuallyis.
So this is really interestingbecause now you have.
quite a number of these imagesthat you have, produced.
Here's how I thought it went,right?
(16:06):
You go out, you see somethinginteresting, you're like, this
is great, I'm gonna throw myguys down, snap a photo, keep
walking down the street, oh,that's interesting, throw down
my guys, take a photo.
That is not the case, you'resaying.
So, when it comes to each andevery photo, Where does the
ideas come from?
I mean, you said that you walkedaround with a Mars bar in your
pocket for a few weeks, you hadto have an idea for that photo,
(16:26):
and then you just had to walkaround and source it.
where did these ideas come from?
Steve Rolfe (16:30):
That's the thing, the creativity, the process,
I've been creating thesescenarios.
Since 2010 you look back at myoriginal ones and it's really
quite the difference with thequality it's a million miles but
the creative process grows andfor me idea has just come along.
as I said, you can be walkingalong, just to get some photos,
(16:51):
just to go out for an hour, andthere might be a few images
there that might be, that mightcome up and think, yeah, that
would really well, that wouldwork really well.
So, I've got the idea.
the location, but then it's,what figures am I going to use
for so many, I've got such aback catalogue of images and
when I sent over to Trope thepublishers, they picked and
(17:13):
choose which ones they wanted.
and then they asked, what, haveyou got more?
Have have you got more?
So then I started to create newones.
and that is easier said thandone because I went three weeks
and I had Numb.
I had nothing in my head.
it was, bright as block.
Oh no.
And I'm thinking, this isgetting serious now.
but within a space of a week,you can hit so many new ones
(17:34):
because it sparks, thecreativity can spark.
And it's like, yes, I got thatone.
And then that can lead you on toanother one.
And then it's another one.
it's like in the book, you'vegot grandpa's boombox.
I found the, headphones.
So those headphones I found onthe street.
And I thought, yeah, we can dosomething with this.
So I wanted to make a play onsomething slightly different.
(17:56):
So I had the old man, and it'shis boombox.
it's him trying to be young andtrendy,
Raymond Hatfield (18:03):
when it comes to these images, does the scene
develop first or do you look atthe figures and try to,
manufacture a scene in your headand then go, try to find that?
Steve Rolfe (18:11):
Yeah, it's getting the scenario first.
Then the location.
it's getting that scene.
It's getting the germ of anidea, the germ of an idea coming
through.
And it's yeah, okay, what can wedo with this?
So I might have the littlepeople ready.
So it might be police officers.
It might be litter picker.
Yeah, it could be any of thelittle people that I've still
got.
And it's like, well, what we cando with these.
So then, an idea might comealong and then it might take me
(18:35):
a couple of weeks to source thelocation.
It's like with the litterpicker, with the rubbish from
the burger, I wanted a decentset.
I didn't want a generic pavementof tarmac that we have in the
UK.
I wanted Concrete it stands outso much better.
So yeah, the location comessecondary.
To be honest,
Raymond Hatfield (18:54):
I think what I love most about looking at these
images, and I don't think I gavethem enough appreciation for
this, is just how organic theylook, right?
and I think that a lot of thatis that they're not giant
stories.
They're very simple.
you look at the image, you knowexactly what's going on, and
it's easy to consume, and it'sfun.
And, there's a childlike qualityabout that.
(19:15):
How do you know, As aphotographer, that the story is,
good enough or that it is,strong enough to fulfill an
image.
And have you ever goneoverboard?
Have you ever tried to includetoo much in an image to where it
just, it didn't work?
Steve Rolfe (19:31):
I think it's, you play with it sometimes less is
more.
and I have found that when youhave too many characters within
this scenario, they can getlost, it can get muddled.
so sometimes keeping it simpleis the best way of doing it.
with regards to photography,sorry, can you repeat your
question?
Raymond Hatfield (19:50):
Yeah, of course.
No, it's all about just tryingto figure out, if you've made a
story too big.
It's hard work to keep photossimple, right?
Uh, because we always are tryingto tell the biggest story
possible, I think with a camera.
And I think that you've donethis so, so well in these images
to keep these stories small.
I'm just interested in knowing,is that in you as a person, or
(20:12):
is that something that you hadto work towards, or I guess, if
you've made images that are justfar too busy in the past.
Steve Rolfe (20:18):
Yeah, I think it is down to Trial and error to be
honest, there are an awful lotthat I've created and are you
happy with them?
Yes.
No So it's trying to keep itsimple Sometimes you don't want
to overcomplicate because you asthe creator know exactly what
you're doing But a reader aviewer might not understand it,
right?
(20:39):
So it can get lost intranslation So I think keep it
smart keep it simple.
and then that makes the readerunderstand exactly what's going
on.
and also if you don't have toomany characters within that
image, yeah, it does make it fora better focal point.
Raymond Hatfield (20:57):
Are you the judge of whether or not a photo
is too busy cause like you said,sometimes the viewer, doesn't,
See all that we see as aphotographer, or do you show
your photos to others and thenget their input?
Steve Rolfe (21:09):
I will show my wife what i'm creating.
I think personally for me it'sdown to my judgment really
whether I think it's going to betoo messy too noisy too crowded.
And I do put them up, andeveryone, art is subjective.
Of course.
Photography is.
So, some like, some don't.
(21:29):
I think as a photographer, aslong as you're happy with what
you're creating, that's half thebattle, to be honest.
As long as you like enjoying andcreate what you want to do, and
you're happy with those images,that's the best way to do it.
but yeah, I try to keep itsimple, because I'm, also aware
of people Try and make it sothat the viewer isn't lost.
and also because, as I said,this has been two years in the
(21:51):
making, so the later bits andpieces are created.
I'm also conscious of, what wedon't understand in America and
UK can be slightly different,like Mars Bar.
England, that's a troglodyte.
We all know what Mars is,whereas America, they don't.
Pavement, sidewalk, you know, soit's, trying to create, because
I know it's going to be a multiit's going to cover different
(22:13):
locations, within the world.
So it's trying to make sure thateveryone can appreciate what is
being created.
Raymond Hatfield (22:20):
Okay.
I actually think that I skippedover, more of your professional,
side of photography.
you said that, you got intophotography as a hobby and then
in 2014, you decided to go fulltime.
what is it that you shoot, Iguess, quote unquote,
professionally today most?
Steve Rolfe (22:34):
For me, I suppose my day job, for want of a better
word, Um, it's commercial, it's,creative, That's commercial
headshots.
but I also do, boudoir andempowerment.
Raymond Hatfield (22:46):
the question that I find interesting here is,
if that's kind of the bread andbutter, right, that's your
profession.
that's where you spend themajority of your time.
and I guess this is just adevil's advocate question here,
for beginners.
Why decide to use small world asa tool?
Your first book, which is moreof a, creative side project.
(23:07):
is that the right term?
Steve Rolfe (23:08):
Yeah, I love street photography, I love books and I
picked up a book and wentthrough it and it was from an
English photographer and at theback it said if you've got an
idea, pitch it to us and thiswas Trope, publishing out of
Chicago and it was like, okay,so this was December, a couple
of years previous, so I thought,why not?
(23:29):
For me, it's the little peopleare quirky, It's different.
Yes, it's creative.
It's different.
and when you look at photographybooks, I think else, there's not
that much going around, whichwould rival the little people.
So I thought, why not?
I got lots of back catalog.
and they are the ones that gotme started, so they're only one
(23:50):
and a half inches high, but youknow, they might be small, but
they made a big impact withinmy, photography career.
So I thought, why not?
So I contacted the publisher andtwo weeks later, we were having
zoom conversations and it justwent from there.
So, yeah, I think it's becausethey're quirky, they're fun.
and it's also helps to otherpeople can correlate what's
(24:13):
going on.
As I said, there are some funones, there's some more
thoughtful, more meaningfulones, within that scenario that
are created so that, it canappreciate or others can
appreciate what I've created.
Raymond Hatfield (24:26):
Yeah.
And I think we could all use alittle bit more fun in our lives
as well.
and I appreciate the bookprobably more than I would
maybe, a book about headshotsor, you know, interior, of
photography.
So, when it comes to thepublishing process, right?
So you reached out, you said,Hey, what do you think about
this idea for a book?
You said that you already had aback catalog.
When you reach out to them,would you consider?
(24:46):
Yeah.
What you had finished, or didyou have ideas for more images
to capture before, it wascomplete?
Steve Rolfe (24:52):
No, it's never finished.
Raymond Hatfield (24:53):
Oh, no, no, I'm sorry.
I guess I mean the photos in thebook, not the project overall.
Steve Rolfe (24:58):
No, no, no.
no, because, basically what Isent over so many images, I went
through ones I thought would begood, would be of a liking.
so yeah, they liked what theysaw.
What more have you got?
So I send more over.
And then I start to look andthink, yeah, okay, I can do with
some more.
it's an ongoing process.
(25:19):
so then I start creating morenew ones to go across.
we got to a point where, yeah,they were happy with the images
that I was sending over.
We'd agreed what images werebeing put into the book.
but as I said, it's an ongoingprocess.
there are more being created, aswe speak.
Raymond Hatfield (25:35):
yeah, understand.
Fully understand.
So when it came time, they werelike, we like these photos and
you had decided, okay, but Ineed some more.
I'm going to capture some more.
This is, I think, looking at abody of work as a whole is
something that a lot of newphotographers have a difficult
time doing probably just becausetheir body of work is so small.
So they don't know what ismissing.
But how did you know, wherethere were holes in what you had
(25:58):
captured and, what you neededto, to continue to capture to be
able to put into the book?
Did that question make sense?
I feel like that was veryworded.
Steve Rolfe (26:05):
Yeah, no, I didn't know where any holes were.
As I said, so many images I sentover.
so we went through that process.
and then we had, have you gotany more?
So it was, yeah, okay, I'll sendthese over.
And then I look at what I'vedone recently or previously.
And it's okay, do I think thatis, Worthy of going in the book,
do I really think that that iscaptures what I think the
(26:28):
essence of the book is So then Istart to think okay, do some
fresh.
Let's do some new ones Send overand see where that goes So the
vast majority of the new onesthey liked, so they've been
pushed into the book as well.
Well, sorry, not pushed, butthey've been put into the book.
because this is my first book,so I'm very much led by the
publisher.
So then they, come and say,look, yeah, we've got enough
(26:50):
images now, we're fine, that'sit, not a problem.
so then you can sort of relaxslightly on that.
side of things.
and then it's just the writingthat has to be pushed, you know,
all gets put together.
So they say what they wantwithin the writing.
I wrote up bits and pieces,about me, about the process,
something else.
And then it goes back to themand then they, do their magic.
And then can put it alltogether, so.
Raymond Hatfield (27:12):
Gotcha.
Steve Rolfe (27:13):
So, yeah.
Raymond Hatfield (27:14):
So, this is a project that will never be done,
right?
as you said, you're stillcapturing these photos.
Even though this book is inprint.
I have it here in my hand.
how did you feel when they werelike, I think that we have
enough images.
Did you feel like, I really wishthat I could capture some more?
Or did you think, okay, This isfine.
should probably rephrase thatquestion.
(27:34):
No, no, that's fine.
That's
Steve Rolfe (27:35):
fine.
Yeah.
No, there wasn't.
It wasn't.
Oh, I want to Oh, no, no one'sstill going to shoot more.
I think as photographers, we putpressure on ourselves, human
beings who put pressure onourselves.
And it was, you get to a pointwhere you've got deadlines to
work to, so it's a question of,you end up with pressure on
yourself thinking, I have to,you know, let's, get some more
(27:58):
creation going.
Let's get some more.
And as I said, and you have aproblem where you have writer's
block or photographer's block,if you want to call it, and the
creative process just doesn'tstart, just don't want to work.
And it's okay.
thankfully.
you take yourself out of yourcomfort zone, you go out and you
see what's around and thecreative process eventually
kicks in.
So then you can create, then youcan fulfill the brief.
(28:21):
So there is no, there's no, Isuppose there's no
disappointment that, oh, I wantto keep on photography or
happiness that, yeah, thankfullythat's done.
I said, you put pressure onyourself to make sure that
you've Got what you need andthat you're happy with what
you've sent over and thatthey're happy with what's come
over.
so as you always were in theback of your mind, it's like,
I've got a deadline on this.
This has to be done by this day.
(28:42):
I think it was a, it's anelement of relief that yes, no,
we've reached that deadline andethics sorted.
Raymond Hatfield (28:51):
So it kind of sounds to me like, you knew
going in that this project.
Would never be done.
So to kind of give up some ofthat control in the beginning,
just to get it out, becausegetting it out is better than
waiting until it's finished andpossibly never be released.
Is that right?
Steve Rolfe (29:08):
I wouldn't say that it's because, as I said, there's
still lots more that I canachieve with the little people,
the way, the different scenariosand locations that could be
done, at the moment is this,it's almost like a snapshot time
of where we are at the moment.
it's a celebration of the littlepeople and what I've achieved.
it's something I never thoughtwould happen.
(29:29):
to get a book of my own images.
it's just incredible to behonest.
but I still look to see what Ican create.
Because for me, it's, you justcarry on, it's like when someone
says, I've learnt everything Ineed to learn.
Well, you should be learningevery day.
And with photography, you canlearn every day.
Because the light changes, thischanges.
a very organic, it's a verycreative process.
(29:51):
yeah, as far as, the littlepeople are still gonna be done,
so where we go in the future,I've got no idea.
But, at the moment, in thepresent, We've got a book that's
being published and it's justincredible.
Raymond Hatfield (30:01):
Yeah, no, of course, of course.
it's a huge accomplishment.
personally, I think when itcomes to ideas for like photo
projects, I can easily come upwith a million ideas, and it's
hard to narrow down my focusinto doing one.
You just got started on doingone, right?
But you said that you've beenworking on this literally for
years.
(30:21):
Was there ever a time where youthought to yourself, you know
what, maybe I'm going to spendmore time exploring a different
photo project?
Or did you think, I got to staythe course on this to take it to
a certain point?
Steve Rolfe (30:31):
no, I never thought, that, change intact
because the whole, littlepeople, the creative process,
it's being out in the street,it's finding new things, and for
me, it's part of who I am.
they started me on this journeyand, there's more to be done
with the little people and as Isaid, creativity wise, it
(30:51):
changes.
Some days you can have a goodday, some days you have bad, but
I would never think of, no, I'mdone now, I need to go to do
something else because I stillthink there is an awful lot left
to be done with these.
You know, things change andyeah, I can't see it ever
changing.
it's not that I do the littlepeople or 24 7.
My day job is, different.
(31:12):
so these are, I suppose, myrelease.
Yes, yes.
That's, if I say, you know, butit's all a creative So it's
something to be,
Raymond Hatfield (31:22):
Of course, of course.
I love to hear that.
sometimes it just takes, thetenacity to keep going and I
know personally that can bedifficult for me to do.
I'll try something and I'll belike, wow, that's really cool.
And then, just because of,circumstances, maybe you can't
just keep shooting and you can'tstay in that mode.
So you have to take a bit of abreak.
And, within that time you'llfind something else and you're
like, that would be cool toexplore.
(31:43):
And then you forgot about theother thing.
But then here I am years laterand I look back at those photos
and I'm like, wow, these aregood.
Why did I not, continue withthis?
and it's good to hear that, Juststicking with it, is going to be
fruitful.
That's good.
I'm trying to think of, anyother questions, but I don't
know.
I just want to know, like, isthere anything maybe that I
didn't ask you today about,either the photography process
or the bookmaking process, thatyou want to make sure that
(32:05):
listeners know and understand.
Steve Rolfe (32:07):
the publishing is, I said, it's over two years in
the making.
The book should have beenreleased last Easter, but
because of COVID, and all sortsof other bits and pieces,
everything was put on hold andit's not just my book, it was a
lot of the books, and there wasabout a period of four to six
weeks, last year where I didn'tknow whether it would be
(32:29):
published or not.
thankfully it did.
but yeah, it is ups and downs.
It's a lengthy period.
It's a lengthy process.
but when I, an email throughwith the, how the book was gonna
look, so you have an outline ofthe book with images and that
just blows your mind.
It really does.
And you're scrolling through theimages online, and it's wow.
(32:50):
And it's just like, you can'tbelieve that you're seeing your
images mocked up for a book.
And then you can times that by athousand.
When I got a couple of advancedcopies through in the post, and
you actually have a book in yourhands of your images, and it is
just like, All the Christmasescome true, it's just, you know,
I never started this processwith the little people, I never
(33:11):
started this to get a book, soto get a book, just to reach out
to a publisher, across the pond,as they say, you know, across
the water, with an idea, andthen two years later I got a
book, it's just crazy, but it'sabsolutely brilliant, It is
brilliant, and I would say toanybody that if you've got an
idea, go for it, just keeppushing, just contact, it's just
(33:34):
many, many years ago, I wouldalways wanted to write books, I
contacted, I wrote a book, and Icontacted publishers, and
nothing, and you know, you pushthat for two years or so, and
nothing, so writing wasn't mything, but photography, so just
to contact people or publishersand if you've got images that
(33:54):
you think are worthy, just doit.
It doesn't cost anything to sendan email or to reach out to
somebody and to say, look, I'vegot these images.
Are they any good?
Would you like to publish them?
and it might happen, you neverknow where it might lead.
But for you, it led to a book.
Yeah.
Raymond Hatfield (34:10):
Very exciting.
Well, Steve, this has been awonderful conversation.
I've thoroughly enjoyed chattingwith you today, and I'm sure
that listeners are thinking tothemselves, Wow, I really want
to see maybe more of Steve'simages, and see what it is that
we're talking about.
So can you share with us wherewe can find you, online?
Steve Rolfe (34:26):
Yep, so if you go on to, Instagram, it's Steve
Rolfe Photography.
That's where an awful lot of mystreet art is, street
photography is.
also on Instagram is LittlePeople Media.
So, yeah, that's where they allhang out.
Raymond Hatfield (34:43):
Again, if you haven't already check out
Steve's Instagram to see some ofhis photos so that you can get
an idea of what it was that wewere talking about.
It's just really fun photos, butlet's go ahead and recap what we
learned today.
First embrace simplestorytelling.
When you can focus on a clearand simple narrative in your
images, it's going to make themstronger because they're going
(35:05):
to be easier to understand andjust more engaging to the
audience.
So For you, I want you to trycreating images that are,
organic.
They're not overly complicated.
it's a very simple story.
Next solicit and utilizefeedback, having that other
perspective, especially fromsomebody that you trust is just
invaluable in refining yourwork.
(35:27):
So regularly seek constructivefeedback, use the beginner
photography podcast community asyour shouting board, then use
that feedback to adjust andimprove your storytelling
techniques.
Shouting board.
Am I sure that's right?
Does that just sound weird?
Anyway, you understand what I'msaying?
and lastly, try pursuingpublication.
when you can turn a creativeside project into a public book,
(35:51):
that's amazing, but it takesdedication and it takes
resilience.
So if you have an idea.
Prepare a proposal, have somesample images ready.
put them together and just reachout to potential publishers.
See what they say.
The worst I can say is no, but Iwant to hear your biggest
takeaway in the beginnerphotography podcast community.
Again, free to join.
We'd love to have you.
(36:12):
I'd love to have you join on, onthis conversation.
You can join right now over atbeginner photo pod.
Dot com forward slash group.
That's it for today until nextweek.
Remember the more that you shoottoday, the better of a
photographer you will betomorrow.
Talk soon.
Sometimes less is more.
Sometimes you don't want toovercomplicate because you as
the creator know exactly whatyou're doing but a reader a
viewer might not understand it.
So it can get lost intranslation.
I think keep it smart.
Keep it simple and then thatmakes the reader understand
exactly what's going on.
Raymond Hatfield (00:20):
Hey, welcome to the Beginner Photography
Podcast.
I'm your host, Raymond Hatfield,and each week I interview one of
the world's most interestingphotographers to learn what it
really takes to capturebeautiful images so that you can
start to do the same.
In today's Rewind episode, I'mchatting with creative
photographer Steve Ralph aboutusing his imagination and his
camera to create a very uniquephoto book project.
(00:43):
But first, the beginnerphotography podcast is brought
to you by Cloudspot.
You all know this.
Cloudspot helps you sell yourphotos through prints, products,
and of course, digitals.
You can set up a storefront inminutes and start earning more
with every single gallery.
So grab your free foreveraccount today over at
deliverphotos.
com and only upgrade when youare ready.
(01:04):
Today's guest, Steve has one ofthe most like fun and just
unique photo book projects thatI have received in a while.
Honestly, Steve uses these tinytoy figurines, out in public to
create images that are just funand have this beautiful, like.
Childlike wonder.
So before we get into today'sinterview, I highly encourage
you to check out Steve'sInstagram, which is linked in
(01:26):
the show notes, just so that youcan get an idea of what it is
that we're talking about.
but today, Steve is going toshare a lot about his creative
process.
we talk about, how to createsuch simple images that are so
powerful and impactful withoutbeing overloaded, with too much
context.
We talk about how he pitchedthis quirky concept to
(01:47):
publishers and possibly mostimportantly, Steve talks about
how to maintain a vibrantcreative spirit as you go on
throughout your photographyjourney.
So again, lots to talk about.
So I invite you to join in onthe conversation over in the
free beginner photographypodcast community, which you can
join over at beginner photopod.
(02:07):
com forward slash.
That's it.
Why don't we go ahead and get oninto today's rewind interview
with Steve Ross?
Steve, my first question for youis an easy one.
I just want to know, when didyou know that photography was
going to play an important rolein your life?
Steve Rolfe (02:22):
It was a slow burn.
I think, I dabbled withphotography when I was younger,
just normal film, but you sendaway to get processed and
everything else.
And as a teenager, but nothingreally stuck, you know, I could
take or leave it.
2010 was a watershed time,Christmas, I was in a bookstore,
picked up this book of, streetphotography, and I was
(02:45):
captivated by the images and Ithought, yeah, I could have a go
at this and it really struck achord with me, so I thought,
okay, so I bought the book, Andthen, didn't have a camera, my
wife had a bridge camera, so itwas a Panasonic, so it was, not
a SLR, it was not a compact, itwas in the middle.
So I started doing thephotography, now the book of, I
(03:05):
picked up was the littlearchitectural figures, one and a
half inches high, in the realworld, so I thought, yeah,
Bought my own figures, andstarted the creative process.
And it was, as I said, it was aslow burn because I was doing it
as a hobby at weekends, I wasstill working within civil
service with government job.
It was only when I had a coupleof things published in magazines
(03:28):
and papers of the little people,And when I took redundancy in
2014 from the job, my wife, whois a self employed interior
designer, that was theinspiration for me just to
think, well, why not?
I've been in the job 22 yearsand I thought, yeah, let's just
go, let's take a leap of faithand go for it.
So that's when it all camereally serious for me in 2014
(03:50):
when I started as a professionalphotographer.
But I still do the little peoplethat was where my inspiration
started and the creativity so Istill do scenarios.
so yeah, that's where itstarted.
I suppose 2014 was when itreally got serious.
And that was four years into mysort of career stroke hobby.
Raymond Hatfield (04:07):
Yeah.
the photography journey there.
when you first picked up thatbook of street photography, I
know that, street photography,like you said, it struck a chord
with you.
It strikes a chord with a lot ofpeople.
why, what was it about theimages that you saw that made
you think differently?
would that be the right, term?
Steve Rolfe (04:23):
Yeah, I loved the American TV series of Giants,
and obviously, I saw it not onthe first run, um, how many runs
did it be?
So yeah, I picked it up in the90s when it was being replayed
umpteen times on, over in theUK.
As I said, that was justincredible to see this spaceship
(04:43):
that crash landed on anotherplanet.
And yeah.
they're small, they had theirlife and it was another world
within that world.
So that struck the chord for methat I could do something
similar to that.
So, yeah, I suppose that's whereit was all born out from, was TV
series.
Raymond Hatfield (05:00):
Before this, would you have considered
yourself maybe growing up?
Creative minded?
Did you have these creativeinterests or hobbies or was it
photography that turned the tidefor you?
Steve Rolfe (05:08):
It was photography.
Raymond Hatfield (05:09):
Really?
Steve Rolfe (05:10):
Yeah.
It was photography that reallyset the ball rolling for me.
It set the, sent me on thispath.
and it really creative processwise really did kickstart the
creative.
I can't walk around anywhere nowwithout looking down, without
thinking is that a good photo.
I take the camera everywhere Igo.
If I didn't have that on mymobile phone.
So yeah, I'm always looking totake an image or two and it's
(05:32):
just something that's switchedon now and it's, yeah, it can be
frustrating for some people ifyou're walking in town with your
wife or whatever your son, andit's just like, you know, taking
photographs.
And it's just like, yeah, okay.
Raymond Hatfield (05:46):
No, I get that.
that's something that I hear alot from, listeners as well as,
there's a lot of fear actuallyin bringing your camera out.
cause of privacy concerns,everybody's concerned that,
you're going to pull up a cameraand somebody's going to say,
Hey, what are you doing?
And it becomes confrontationalor whatever.
but you kind of were able to goa different direction than that
with, your images.
I know that, talked about yourbook.
Here we go, small world here inthe intro, but for those who are
(06:07):
either driving or they're at thegym, could you describe the
types of images that are in hereand how you go about capturing
them?
Steve Rolfe (06:14):
The images are street scenes that I've created,
I've taken inspiration from allsorts of places, and it's
basically small little railwayfigures, that you might have on
a, model railway track, and, yousee the little people, and I use
them to, make the scene looknatural.
(06:34):
I put these figures up, and, Icreate scenarios around the
little people.
and the scenarios can be varied.
some have a humor element tothem.
Some have, more thoughtful.
The strangest one I, think Idid, it was a prison break, in
Gloucester where I live, therewas a prison, it's now closed,
and I just had these threelittle figures.
(06:55):
Painters, prisoners, and Ithought, yeah, one Saturday
night, eight o'clock in winter.
So it was dark and I'm thinking,yeah, okay, let's do this.
So I'm ferreting around thebottom of this prison wall with
a torch, putting my littlefigures to create a prison
break.
And there's sirens going off inthe distance.
And I'm thinking, am I reallythis stupid doing this?
I managed to get a few images.
(07:16):
they weren't the best causeobviously with the torch and the
lights and everything else.
And as I always do, I leave thelittle people there, to be found
or to be left, whatever, for amorning went back round and
nowhere to be seen.
So either they were kicked alongor prison officer has gone
around to do a search and theyended up back in prison.
No one knows, but yeah, it's amystery.
(07:39):
Yeah.
So, chocolate bars are prettygood to use, crisps, all sorts
of things that come out with,it's just, whatever's in my mind
at that time, there are parts ofthe book where it's, Welcome to
Britain, where we have burnt outcars and children playing on
burnt out cars, and it's justcreating, a very urban look to
(08:01):
real life, I suppose.
Raymond Hatfield (08:03):
This idea is something, I think when you
first see it, it feels verynovel.
It's oh, I get it.
this is fun.
but I don't think that it'ssomething that many
photographers, maybe newerphotographers would think to
start to put together.
So for you, right, you said thatyou picked up these, the
figures, that go in that are,for train models and whatnot.
Why not just stick to,landscapes or, sunsets like, the
(08:26):
majority of beginners do?
Steve Rolfe (08:28):
I do photograph landscapes, but it doesn't have
that photography.
genre of photography is so vast,and for me, landscape is, there
are some incredible landscapephotographers out there, and
they have no human elementwhatsoever within the image.
It is just nature itself, whichI can appreciate.
(08:49):
but for me with the littlepeople, it started that journey
and inspiration and creativityand I love street.
I love cities and it's thatwhole vibe of life going on.
and you put the little people toone side and then you're just
taking, I do true streetphotography, which is candid,
which is basically catchingpeople.
(09:11):
Going about their dailybusiness, so you had to learn to
judge where you're shooting.
you don't put the camera to yourface, you hold it into your
body.
So it is mid riff.
so that people can't see whatyou're doing because it's huge.
You put your camera up to yourface.
They know exactly what's goingon.
that's why mobile phones arebrilliant because everyone's got
mobile phones and you can takesome photos with a mobile phone.
(09:33):
So it's capturing people, aslong as they're not doing
anything illegal, as long asyou're on public land, It's
creating that image and lookingto see where the light is,
what's coming up, using streetsigns, having some humour to it,
capturing reflections in shopwindows.
it really is endless.
but yeah, that's why I preferthat more than going off doing
landscapes or shooting wildlifeor whatever.
(09:56):
I think everyone has that littleniche, they just can't.
It's just, in the end, she can'tstop scratching
Raymond Hatfield (10:03):
So, when it comes to street photography
though, when I think of streetphotography, It's much more
reactionary, right?
Because you're kind of at themercy of whatever happens around
you.
Like, of course you can look forthings like opposition and
light, but as far as kind of themoment you have to wait for
something to happen.
Whereas these images that youcreate with the tiny people
here.
planning of intention.
(10:23):
So do you feel like it's twodifferent mindsets or do you
feel like it's just simply anextension of one another?
Steve Rolfe (10:29):
it could be an extension of one another.
With the street photography isjust a question of, some
photographers will go out with apoint of departure.
Basically, that means that theywill, Go out with a pure reason
for to shoot a certain specificsubjects where it might be
buses, it might be people withred coats or whatever.
I go out I just emptied my brainor mind of everything and just
(10:51):
see what the street gives me.
With the little people, there'splanning.
of the images in the book is alittle person picking up, things
that have a burger.
It's, The gherkins, as we callthem in England, they're, like
savoury cucumber, and then theyput in certain, mainstream
burger joints, they put them inburgers.
(11:11):
Now I take mine out, percent ofpeople take them out.
And they end up on the floor,people just don't care, they
just stick them on the floor, sowe had this, burger, a meal, was
last year, and I saved some ofthe gherkins.
Put them in a plastic bag intothe fridge for two weeks because
I wasn't ready to use them.
(11:32):
Sourced out what I needed.
I had a little person, a littleroad sweep man to pick them up.
I needed a backdrop of where thegherkins came from.
So you have the correlation, youhave the connection, and then
it's trying to find the pavementso that it Fitted really well so
the man wouldn't be hidden youcan see exactly what's going on.
So I found what I wanted.
(11:53):
uh, took the gherkins out withme.
I took the little person, Ifound the right time of day,
place them onto the floor, ontothe pavement or sidewalk, and
then shoot, the scene.
So then I shoot aperturepriority, because I find it's
the best way, on the cameras ifanyone, if anyone wants to help.
Because then you can focuscentrally, get it nice and
(12:15):
sharp, and then the backdrop isslightly blurred.
So the burger joint is quitewell famous.
you have that in the background,you have the little person
picking up these gherkins, soyou have a complete connection
with what it is.
So it's not just some randomthing on the floor.
and my question, the name that Ioriginally put was YYY, was
(12:35):
because most people take thenight, most people just bin
them, why put them in?
Raymond Hatfield (12:39):
Huh.
wow.
Okay, when looking through thebook, as I think I said earlier,
there's this whimsical qualityto the photos.
As if, you're just walkingalong, you see something,
interesting on the ground,whether it be a piece of trash
or some gherkins on the, on theground.
And then you set up your figuresthat you have there.
but hearing your explanationthere, it sounds Quite a bit of
(12:59):
planning, goes into making theseimages look very organic, is
that right?
Is that the intention?
Steve Rolfe (13:05):
Yeah, that's it.
Yeah, it's organic, yeah.
Over in England we have achocolate bar called Mars.
And that's in the book as well.
So I had some men with chemicalsuits.
And I wanted to do something,and it was around the time when
Mars was being discovered.
And, so I had this Mars bar withme.
Again, I had it with me forabout two weeks, three weeks,
trying to source out a locationthat was good on the sidewalk.
(13:28):
Had the little people, so Ithought, yeah, okay.
So I managed to find a location,had these.
I took the end, I ripped the endoff the Mars wrapper, took a
chunk off the end, so you cansee what's inside it.
I had the Mars wrapper showing,So you know what's going on is
Mars and the little people allwith the asthma chemical suits
all over this chocolate bar andit was basically you don't need
(13:50):
to go to space to explore Mars,
Raymond Hatfield (13:53):
right?
Wow.
So Looking through the book, Imean, that was going to be one
photo that I was going to as anexample, because it just looks,
again, as if you had juststumbled upon that scene, seen
the half eaten Mars bar, putthose guys down, and took the
photo, and you were done.
there are other photos thatdefinitely look like more
planning went into them.
(14:13):
I believe the one called,nothing to see here, there's a
tiny figure and she's cleaningup also a tiny body chalk line,
right?
And I could tell that, youdidn't just stumble upon that
tiny body chalk line, right?
So like you had to manufacturethat.
Are there any photos that youjust, show up and say, this is
great, just the way that it is,here we go, put down my guys
(14:34):
here and, snap the photo andyou're done.
Or does each photo take quite abit of planning and preparation?
Steve Rolfe (14:41):
All take planning.
Wow.
there's only one possible in thebook and it's the one with the
beer can.
And I saw the beer can and itwas in that location.
thought, okay, I can do this.
So I got a replacement beer can,and then I used, the little
people, two police officers.
(15:01):
so that was one of the probablyeasiest ones to create.
so over in the UK, we have aprogram called I'm a Celebrity,
and it's basically celebritiesthat are taken into the
Australian jungle, and they haveto do trials, and they're there
for three weeks, and they, haveto do trials, They can't eat
normal food, whatever they haveto, so and they have bush chukka
(15:22):
trials.
So the original name for thatwas I'm a celebrity.
So he was doing a bush chukkatrial where he was drinking the
beer and he fell out.
So the two police officers arethere waiting to arrest him.
So it was, As I said, that wasprobably one of the easiest ones
I did, because the beer can wasalready there in situ or one was
already there.
And I just thought, yes, thatwould work really well.
Raymond Hatfield (15:44):
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
Okay.
So my whole, thought processwhen coming up with, questions
in my head now has completelychanged because I thought that
the, process of capturing theseimages was, much less involved,
I guess, than what it actuallyis.
So this is really interestingbecause now you have.
quite a number of these imagesthat you have, produced.
Here's how I thought it went,right?
(16:06):
You go out, you see somethinginteresting, you're like, this
is great, I'm gonna throw myguys down, snap a photo, keep
walking down the street, oh,that's interesting, throw down
my guys, take a photo.
That is not the case, you'resaying.
So, when it comes to each andevery photo, Where does the
ideas come from?
I mean, you said that you walkedaround with a Mars bar in your
pocket for a few weeks, you hadto have an idea for that photo,
(16:26):
and then you just had to walkaround and source it.
where did these ideas come from?
Steve Rolfe (16:30):
That's the thing, the creativity, the process,
I've been creating thesescenarios.
Since 2010 you look back at myoriginal ones and it's really
quite the difference with thequality it's a million miles but
the creative process grows andfor me idea has just come along.
as I said, you can be walkingalong, just to get some photos,
(16:51):
just to go out for an hour, andthere might be a few images
there that might be, that mightcome up and think, yeah, that
would really well, that wouldwork really well.
So, I've got the idea.
the location, but then it's,what figures am I going to use
for so many, I've got such aback catalogue of images and
when I sent over to Trope thepublishers, they picked and
(17:13):
choose which ones they wanted.
and then they asked, what, haveyou got more?
Have have you got more?
So then I started to create newones.
and that is easier said thandone because I went three weeks
and I had Numb.
I had nothing in my head.
it was, bright as block.
Oh no.
And I'm thinking, this isgetting serious now.
but within a space of a week,you can hit so many new ones
(17:34):
because it sparks, thecreativity can spark.
And it's like, yes, I got thatone.
And then that can lead you on toanother one.
And then it's another one.
it's like in the book, you'vegot grandpa's boombox.
I found the, headphones.
So those headphones I found onthe street.
And I thought, yeah, we can dosomething with this.
So I wanted to make a play onsomething slightly different.
(17:56):
So I had the old man, and it'shis boombox.
it's him trying to be young andtrendy,
Raymond Hatfield (18:03):
when it comes to these images, does the scene
develop first or do you look atthe figures and try to,
manufacture a scene in your headand then go, try to find that?
Steve Rolfe (18:11):
Yeah, it's getting the scenario first.
Then the location.
it's getting that scene.
It's getting the germ of anidea, the germ of an idea coming
through.
And it's yeah, okay, what can wedo with this?
So I might have the littlepeople ready.
So it might be police officers.
It might be litter picker.
Yeah, it could be any of thelittle people that I've still
got.
And it's like, well, what we cando with these.
So then, an idea might comealong and then it might take me
(18:35):
a couple of weeks to source thelocation.
It's like with the litterpicker, with the rubbish from
the burger, I wanted a decentset.
I didn't want a generic pavementof tarmac that we have in the
UK.
I wanted Concrete it stands outso much better.
So yeah, the location comessecondary.
To be honest,
Raymond Hatfield (18:54):
I think what I love most about looking at these
images, and I don't think I gavethem enough appreciation for
this, is just how organic theylook, right?
and I think that a lot of thatis that they're not giant
stories.
They're very simple.
you look at the image, you knowexactly what's going on, and
it's easy to consume, and it'sfun.
And, there's a childlike qualityabout that.
(19:15):
How do you know, As aphotographer, that the story is,
good enough or that it is,strong enough to fulfill an
image.
And have you ever goneoverboard?
Have you ever tried to includetoo much in an image to where it
just, it didn't work?
Steve Rolfe (19:31):
I think it's, you play with it sometimes less is
more.
and I have found that when youhave too many characters within
this scenario, they can getlost, it can get muddled.
so sometimes keeping it simpleis the best way of doing it.
with regards to photography,sorry, can you repeat your
question?
Raymond Hatfield (19:50):
Yeah, of course.
No, it's all about just tryingto figure out, if you've made a
story too big.
It's hard work to keep photossimple, right?
Uh, because we always are tryingto tell the biggest story
possible, I think with a camera.
And I think that you've donethis so, so well in these images
to keep these stories small.
I'm just interested in knowing,is that in you as a person, or
(20:12):
is that something that you hadto work towards, or I guess, if
you've made images that are justfar too busy in the past.
Steve Rolfe (20:18):
Yeah, I think it is down to Trial and error to be
honest, there are an awful lotthat I've created and are you
happy with them?
Yes.
No So it's trying to keep itsimple Sometimes you don't want
to overcomplicate because you asthe creator know exactly what
you're doing But a reader aviewer might not understand it,
right?
(20:39):
So it can get lost intranslation So I think keep it
smart keep it simple.
and then that makes the readerunderstand exactly what's going
on.
and also if you don't have toomany characters within that
image, yeah, it does make it fora better focal point.
Raymond Hatfield (20:57):
Are you the judge of whether or not a photo
is too busy cause like you said,sometimes the viewer, doesn't,
See all that we see as aphotographer, or do you show
your photos to others and thenget their input?
Steve Rolfe (21:09):
I will show my wife what i'm creating.
I think personally for me it'sdown to my judgment really
whether I think it's going to betoo messy too noisy too crowded.
And I do put them up, andeveryone, art is subjective.
Of course.
Photography is.
So, some like, some don't.
(21:29):
I think as a photographer, aslong as you're happy with what
you're creating, that's half thebattle, to be honest.
As long as you like enjoying andcreate what you want to do, and
you're happy with those images,that's the best way to do it.
but yeah, I try to keep itsimple, because I'm, also aware
of people Try and make it sothat the viewer isn't lost.
and also because, as I said,this has been two years in the
(21:51):
making, so the later bits andpieces are created.
I'm also conscious of, what wedon't understand in America and
UK can be slightly different,like Mars Bar.
England, that's a troglodyte.
We all know what Mars is,whereas America, they don't.
Pavement, sidewalk, you know, soit's, trying to create, because
I know it's going to be a multiit's going to cover different
(22:13):
locations, within the world.
So it's trying to make sure thateveryone can appreciate what is
being created.
Raymond Hatfield (22:20):
Okay.
I actually think that I skippedover, more of your professional,
side of photography.
you said that, you got intophotography as a hobby and then
in 2014, you decided to go fulltime.
what is it that you shoot, Iguess, quote unquote,
professionally today most?
Steve Rolfe (22:34):
For me, I suppose my day job, for want of a better
word, Um, it's commercial, it's,creative, That's commercial
headshots.
but I also do, boudoir andempowerment.
Raymond Hatfield (22:46):
the question that I find interesting here is,
if that's kind of the bread andbutter, right, that's your
profession.
that's where you spend themajority of your time.
and I guess this is just adevil's advocate question here,
for beginners.
Why decide to use small world asa tool?
Your first book, which is moreof a, creative side project.
(23:07):
is that the right term?
Steve Rolfe (23:08):
Yeah, I love street photography, I love books and I
picked up a book and wentthrough it and it was from an
English photographer and at theback it said if you've got an
idea, pitch it to us and thiswas Trope, publishing out of
Chicago and it was like, okay,so this was December, a couple
of years previous, so I thought,why not?
(23:29):
For me, it's the little peopleare quirky, It's different.
Yes, it's creative.
It's different.
and when you look at photographybooks, I think else, there's not
that much going around, whichwould rival the little people.
So I thought, why not?
I got lots of back catalog.
and they are the ones that gotme started, so they're only one
(23:50):
and a half inches high, but youknow, they might be small, but
they made a big impact withinmy, photography career.
So I thought, why not?
So I contacted the publisher andtwo weeks later, we were having
zoom conversations and it justwent from there.
So, yeah, I think it's becausethey're quirky, they're fun.
and it's also helps to otherpeople can correlate what's
(24:13):
going on.
As I said, there are some funones, there's some more
thoughtful, more meaningfulones, within that scenario that
are created so that, it canappreciate or others can
appreciate what I've created.
Raymond Hatfield (24:26):
Yeah.
And I think we could all use alittle bit more fun in our lives
as well.
and I appreciate the bookprobably more than I would
maybe, a book about headshotsor, you know, interior, of
photography.
So, when it comes to thepublishing process, right?
So you reached out, you said,Hey, what do you think about
this idea for a book?
You said that you already had aback catalog.
When you reach out to them,would you consider?
(24:46):
Yeah.
What you had finished, or didyou have ideas for more images
to capture before, it wascomplete?
Steve Rolfe (24:52):
No, it's never finished.
Raymond Hatfield (24:53):
Oh, no, no, I'm sorry.
I guess I mean the photos in thebook, not the project overall.
Steve Rolfe (24:58):
No, no, no.
no, because, basically what Isent over so many images, I went
through ones I thought would begood, would be of a liking.
so yeah, they liked what theysaw.
What more have you got?
So I send more over.
And then I start to look andthink, yeah, okay, I can do with
some more.
it's an ongoing process.
(25:19):
so then I start creating morenew ones to go across.
we got to a point where, yeah,they were happy with the images
that I was sending over.
We'd agreed what images werebeing put into the book.
but as I said, it's an ongoingprocess.
there are more being created, aswe speak.
Raymond Hatfield (25:35):
yeah, understand.
Fully understand.
So when it came time, they werelike, we like these photos and
you had decided, okay, but Ineed some more.
I'm going to capture some more.
This is, I think, looking at abody of work as a whole is
something that a lot of newphotographers have a difficult
time doing probably just becausetheir body of work is so small.
So they don't know what ismissing.
But how did you know, wherethere were holes in what you had
(25:58):
captured and, what you neededto, to continue to capture to be
able to put into the book?
Did that question make sense?
I feel like that was veryworded.
Steve Rolfe (26:05):
Yeah, no, I didn't know where any holes were.
As I said, so many images I sentover.
so we went through that process.
and then we had, have you gotany more?
So it was, yeah, okay, I'll sendthese over.
And then I look at what I'vedone recently or previously.
And it's okay, do I think thatis, Worthy of going in the book,
do I really think that that iscaptures what I think the
(26:28):
essence of the book is So then Istart to think okay, do some
fresh.
Let's do some new ones Send overand see where that goes So the
vast majority of the new onesthey liked, so they've been
pushed into the book as well.
Well, sorry, not pushed, butthey've been put into the book.
because this is my first book,so I'm very much led by the
publisher.
So then they, come and say,look, yeah, we've got enough
(26:50):
images now, we're fine, that'sit, not a problem.
so then you can sort of relaxslightly on that.
side of things.
and then it's just the writingthat has to be pushed, you know,
all gets put together.
So they say what they wantwithin the writing.
I wrote up bits and pieces,about me, about the process,
something else.
And then it goes back to themand then they, do their magic.
And then can put it alltogether, so.
Raymond Hatfield (27:12):
Gotcha.
Steve Rolfe (27:13):
So, yeah.
Raymond Hatfield (27:14):
So, this is a project that will never be done,
right?
as you said, you're stillcapturing these photos.
Even though this book is inprint.
I have it here in my hand.
how did you feel when they werelike, I think that we have
enough images.
Did you feel like, I really wishthat I could capture some more?
Or did you think, okay, This isfine.
should probably rephrase thatquestion.
(27:34):
No, no, that's fine.
That's
Steve Rolfe (27:35):
fine.
Yeah.
No, there wasn't.
It wasn't.
Oh, I want to Oh, no, no one'sstill going to shoot more.
I think as photographers, we putpressure on ourselves, human
beings who put pressure onourselves.
And it was, you get to a pointwhere you've got deadlines to
work to, so it's a question of,you end up with pressure on
yourself thinking, I have to,you know, let's, get some more
(27:58):
creation going.
Let's get some more.
And as I said, and you have aproblem where you have writer's
block or photographer's block,if you want to call it, and the
creative process just doesn'tstart, just don't want to work.
And it's okay.
thankfully.
you take yourself out of yourcomfort zone, you go out and you
see what's around and thecreative process eventually
kicks in.
So then you can create, then youcan fulfill the brief.
(28:21):
So there is no, there's no, Isuppose there's no
disappointment that, oh, I wantto keep on photography or
happiness that, yeah, thankfullythat's done.
I said, you put pressure onyourself to make sure that
you've Got what you need andthat you're happy with what
you've sent over and thatthey're happy with what's come
over.
so as you always were in theback of your mind, it's like,
I've got a deadline on this.
This has to be done by this day.
(28:42):
I think it was a, it's anelement of relief that yes, no,
we've reached that deadline andethics sorted.
Raymond Hatfield (28:51):
So it kind of sounds to me like, you knew
going in that this project.
Would never be done.
So to kind of give up some ofthat control in the beginning,
just to get it out, becausegetting it out is better than
waiting until it's finished andpossibly never be released.
Is that right?
Steve Rolfe (29:08):
I wouldn't say that it's because, as I said, there's
still lots more that I canachieve with the little people,
the way, the different scenariosand locations that could be
done, at the moment is this,it's almost like a snapshot time
of where we are at the moment.
it's a celebration of the littlepeople and what I've achieved.
it's something I never thoughtwould happen.
(29:29):
to get a book of my own images.
it's just incredible to behonest.
but I still look to see what Ican create.
Because for me, it's, you justcarry on, it's like when someone
says, I've learnt everything Ineed to learn.
Well, you should be learningevery day.
And with photography, you canlearn every day.
Because the light changes, thischanges.
a very organic, it's a verycreative process.
(29:51):
yeah, as far as, the littlepeople are still gonna be done,
so where we go in the future,I've got no idea.
But, at the moment, in thepresent, We've got a book that's
being published and it's justincredible.
Raymond Hatfield (30:01):
Yeah, no, of course, of course.
it's a huge accomplishment.
personally, I think when itcomes to ideas for like photo
projects, I can easily come upwith a million ideas, and it's
hard to narrow down my focusinto doing one.
You just got started on doingone, right?
But you said that you've beenworking on this literally for
years.
(30:21):
Was there ever a time where youthought to yourself, you know
what, maybe I'm going to spendmore time exploring a different
photo project?
Or did you think, I got to staythe course on this to take it to
a certain point?
Steve Rolfe (30:31):
no, I never thought, that, change intact
because the whole, littlepeople, the creative process,
it's being out in the street,it's finding new things, and for
me, it's part of who I am.
they started me on this journeyand, there's more to be done
with the little people and as Isaid, creativity wise, it
(30:51):
changes.
Some days you can have a goodday, some days you have bad, but
I would never think of, no, I'mdone now, I need to go to do
something else because I stillthink there is an awful lot left
to be done with these.
You know, things change andyeah, I can't see it ever
changing.
it's not that I do the littlepeople or 24 7.
My day job is, different.
(31:12):
so these are, I suppose, myrelease.
Yes, yes.
That's, if I say, you know, butit's all a creative So it's
something to be,
Raymond Hatfield (31:22):
Of course, of course.
I love to hear that.
sometimes it just takes, thetenacity to keep going and I
know personally that can bedifficult for me to do.
I'll try something and I'll belike, wow, that's really cool.
And then, just because of,circumstances, maybe you can't
just keep shooting and you can'tstay in that mode.
So you have to take a bit of abreak.
And, within that time you'llfind something else and you're
like, that would be cool toexplore.
(31:43):
And then you forgot about theother thing.
But then here I am years laterand I look back at those photos
and I'm like, wow, these aregood.
Why did I not, continue withthis?
and it's good to hear that, Juststicking with it, is going to be
fruitful.
That's good.
I'm trying to think of, anyother questions, but I don't
know.
I just want to know, like, isthere anything maybe that I
didn't ask you today about,either the photography process
or the bookmaking process, thatyou want to make sure that
(32:05):
listeners know and understand.
Steve Rolfe (32:07):
the publishing is, I said, it's over two years in
the making.
The book should have beenreleased last Easter, but
because of COVID, and all sortsof other bits and pieces,
everything was put on hold andit's not just my book, it was a
lot of the books, and there wasabout a period of four to six
weeks, last year where I didn'tknow whether it would be
(32:29):
published or not.
thankfully it did.
but yeah, it is ups and downs.
It's a lengthy period.
It's a lengthy process.
but when I, an email throughwith the, how the book was gonna
look, so you have an outline ofthe book with images and that
just blows your mind.
It really does.
And you're scrolling through theimages online, and it's wow.
(32:50):
And it's just like, you can'tbelieve that you're seeing your
images mocked up for a book.
And then you can times that by athousand.
When I got a couple of advancedcopies through in the post, and
you actually have a book in yourhands of your images, and it is
just like, All the Christmasescome true, it's just, you know,
I never started this processwith the little people, I never
(33:11):
started this to get a book, soto get a book, just to reach out
to a publisher, across the pond,as they say, you know, across
the water, with an idea, andthen two years later I got a
book, it's just crazy, but it'sabsolutely brilliant, It is
brilliant, and I would say toanybody that if you've got an
idea, go for it, just keeppushing, just contact, it's just
(33:34):
many, many years ago, I wouldalways wanted to write books, I
contacted, I wrote a book, and Icontacted publishers, and
nothing, and you know, you pushthat for two years or so, and
nothing, so writing wasn't mything, but photography, so just
to contact people or publishersand if you've got images that
(33:54):
you think are worthy, just doit.
It doesn't cost anything to sendan email or to reach out to
somebody and to say, look, I'vegot these images.
Are they any good?
Would you like to publish them?
and it might happen, you neverknow where it might lead.
But for you, it led to a book.
Yeah.
Raymond Hatfield (34:10):
Very exciting.
Well, Steve, this has been awonderful conversation.
I've thoroughly enjoyed chattingwith you today, and I'm sure
that listeners are thinking tothemselves, Wow, I really want
to see maybe more of Steve'simages, and see what it is that
we're talking about.
So can you share with us wherewe can find you, online?
Steve Rolfe (34:26):
Yep, so if you go on to, Instagram, it's Steve
Rolfe Photography.
That's where an awful lot of mystreet art is, street
photography is.
also on Instagram is LittlePeople Media.
So, yeah, that's where they allhang out.
Raymond Hatfield (34:43):
Again, if you haven't already check out
Steve's Instagram to see some ofhis photos so that you can get
an idea of what it was that wewere talking about.
It's just really fun photos, butlet's go ahead and recap what we
learned today.
First embrace simplestorytelling.
When you can focus on a clearand simple narrative in your
images, it's going to make themstronger because they're going
(35:05):
to be easier to understand andjust more engaging to the
audience.
So For you, I want you to trycreating images that are,
organic.
They're not overly complicated.
it's a very simple story.
Next solicit and utilizefeedback, having that other
perspective, especially fromsomebody that you trust is just
invaluable in refining yourwork.
(35:27):
So regularly seek constructivefeedback, use the beginner
photography podcast community asyour shouting board, then use
that feedback to adjust andimprove your storytelling
techniques.
Shouting board.
Am I sure that's right?
Does that just sound weird?
Anyway, you understand what I'msaying?
and lastly, try pursuingpublication.
when you can turn a creativeside project into a public book,
(35:51):
that's amazing, but it takesdedication and it takes
resilience.
So if you have an idea.
Prepare a proposal, have somesample images ready.
put them together and just reachout to potential publishers.
See what they say.
The worst I can say is no, but Iwant to hear your biggest
takeaway in the beginnerphotography podcast community.
Again, free to join.
We'd love to have you.
(36:12):
I'd love to have you join on, onthis conversation.
You can join right now over atbeginner photo pod.
Dot com forward slash group.
That's it for today until nextweek.
Remember the more that you shoottoday, the better of a
photographer you will betomorrow.
Talk soon.
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