June 26, 2025 • 46 mins
#575 Sandra Coan is a seasoned film photographer from Seattle with two decades of experience in newborn, family, and classic portraiture. Sandra shares her inspiring journey—how she turned a creative passion into a thriving business, the challenges of building a successful brand, and the importance of letting your authentic style shine. As you listen, you’ll learn how to define what makes your photography truly unique, why focusing on what brings you joy can fuel both your growth and client satisfaction, and concrete steps for aligning your artistic voice with your business. Take Sandra’s wisdom and start building a brand that’s unmistakably yours.
KEY TOPICS COVERED
- The True Nature of Branding - Sandra explains that branding is not just visual identity (logos, colors, fonts), but the entirety of how your work, personality, voice, and client experience come together. Strong branding makes your photos instantly recognizable and helps build trust and authority with clients.
- Finding Your Unique Voice & Overcoming Comparison - The episode explores the challenges of staying true to your vision in a crowded industry and the pitfalls of copying trends. Sandra urges listeners to focus on what brings joy, to avoid unhealthy comparison, and to bravely lean into their unique point of view as artists.
- Business Growth through Authenticity and Consistency - Real-world examples illustrate how Sandra’s success grew once she committed to her personal passion—classic portraiture—and learned core business and marketing principles. A strong, consistent brand not only builds trust but also justifies higher prices and client loyalty.
IMPORTANT DEFINITIONS & CONCEPTS
- Branding: More than just a logo or color scheme; it’s the complete representation of your business, including your style, voice, client experience, and consistent execution (episode context: stands out in a crowded marke
- Comparison Trap: The tendency to measure your own success or worth against others, which often undermines creativity and confidence.
DISCUSSION & REFLECTION QUESTIONS
- What is your unique artistic perspective, and how do you communicate it in your portfolio and messaging?
- If branding is more than visuals, what are small changes you could make today to present a more authentic brand experience?
- When have you found yourself comparing your work to others, and what strategies could help redirect that energy?
RESOURCES:
Visit Sandra Coan's Website - https://www.sandracoan.com/
Follow Sandra Coan on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/sandracoan/
Sandra Coan’s Educational Platform - https://www.sandracoaneducation.com/
Sign up for your free CloudSpot Account today at www.DeliverPhotos.com
Connect with Raymond!
- Join the free Beginner Photography Podcast Community at https://beginnerphotopod.com/group
- Get your Photo Questions Answered on the show - https://beginnerphotopod.com/qa
- Grab your free camera setting cheatsheet - https://perfectcamerasettings.com/
Thanks for listening & keep shooting!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sandra Coan (00:00):
I do think that branding is something that
(00:01):
really confuses people andpeople don't know what it is.
So what branding is, your brandis everything.
Yes, it's important that youhave consistent logo, color
palette, font, you know, allthat kind of stuff, but your
branding is you, it is yourstyle.
It is your work.
When you have a really, reallystrong brand, then someone sees
(00:23):
your image come up on theirInstagram feed and they know
right away that that is you,that is a strong brand.
That's what branding is.
Raymond Hatfield (00:34):
Hey, guess what it is, Raymond, here.
Welcome to the BeginnerPhotography Podcast.
I'm your host, and each week Iinterview one of the world's
most interesting photographersto learn, well, what does it
really take to capture beautifulimages?
And I share that with you sothat you can start to do the
same.
In today's rewind episode, weare chatting with newborn and
family film photographer SandraCone, about how defining a brand
(00:57):
for yourself can set you apartfrom others and help you to
build a profitable photobusiness.
But first, you know that theBeginner Photography Podcast is
brought to you by Cloud Spot.
With Clouds Spot, you cansimplify your business With
Studio Management Clouds Spotlets you organize clients, send
professional contracts, automateinvoice payments and more.
(01:19):
So keeping track of everythingin your photography business
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So grab your free foreveraccount today
over@deliverphotos.com, and thenyou only upgrade when you're
ready.
No matter how many times you'veheard it, or maybe you've even
said it yourself, the truth isyour images, they don't speak
for themselves.
I mean, how could they as a newphotographer, you're still
(01:40):
trying to find your photographicvoice.
So the question becomes how dowe get eyes on our work?
Branding is a great way to buildyour reputation and what you
stand for as a photographer.
And today's guest, Sandra Cone,is the woman with a plan to help
you out.
Sandra is an amazingphotographer and something
that's a bit of a rarity thesedays.
(02:02):
A family photographer who shootsprimarily on film.
In fact, I think it'sexclusively on film.
I could be wrong about that.
But regardless if you think thatit's hard capturing, sharp
photos of kids running around ondigital where you have like
burst mode and stuff, then justtake a look at Sandra's work and
you'll have an immense amount ofappreciation for the type of
(02:24):
images that she captures andwhat it is that she does by
shooting on film.
Truly incredible.
And that the shooting film,supports her brand too.
It talks about being the kind ofphotographer who she wants to
be, and I'm really excited forher to share with you how
finding your own brand voicewill help you to transform your
(02:44):
work, your confidence, andhonestly your bottom line.
But first, a quick reminder thatthe Beginner Photography podcast
is not something that you listento and then never think about it
again.
Your time is too precious, so I,I encourage you to take
listening seriously.
I, I mean, Sandra has more than20 years of experience as a
(03:08):
working and profitablephotographer, and she's sharing
that with you today, all in thehopes that it helps you make
something click, but things onlyclick when you click them.
When you take action on thethings that you learn.
So again, listen activelyotherwise, you might as well
(03:32):
just be doom scrolling andneither of us want that.
You're better than that.
Okay, with that, let's go aheadand get on into today's
interview with Sandra Cone.
Sandra, thank you so much forcoming on the podcast.
Sandra Coan (03:45):
Yeah, well, thank you so much for having me.
What an honor to be here.
Raymond Hatfield (03:49):
Well, I'm really excited to chat with you
today because, I want to know alittle bit more about you and
how you got your start inphotography.
Sandra Coan (03:56):
I've always done photography Let me just start by
saying that it's always been apart of my life.
My dad was a enthusiast and weactually had a darkroom in our
house when 70s, right?
So the regulations on chemicalsand stuff were a little bit more
loosey goosey.
So, uh, but I grew up around it.
(04:16):
Right.
And it was always something Ihad.
I always had a camera.
It was always something I loved,but, like I said, I didn't think
of it as like a career option.
And, in the nineties back in theday, I was teaching.
I just started teachingkindergarten.
It was my first couple years ofteaching.
I was paying, you know, mystudent loans and graduate
school of a single time livingin Seattle, which is a really
(04:38):
expensive city.
And I just wasn't making it onmy teaching income.
I was actually, as a full timeteacher with a master's degree,
I qualified for food stamps.
Those first years.
Yeah, it was rough, right?
You believe?
I mean, that's a whole, Like theconversation, and about this
time, my friends were allgetting married and my, my good
(04:59):
friend Ginger had just gotmarried and was expecting her
first baby.
And I said to her, Oh, you're sobeautiful.
We should do a maternity photo.
Now this was the nineties.
This was back before thematernity industry was what it
is now, right?
We were all kind of stillreeling from that.
The image that Annie Leibovitzhad taken of Demi Moore, you
know, remember?
Raymond Hatfield (05:20):
And yeah,
Sandra Coan (05:21):
Exactly.
Right.
So I said to Ginger, I'm like,Oh, we should take a photo like
that of you.
And she's like, yeah, let's doit.
So we did.
And we got really one picturefrom the whole session that was
good or worth anything.
But it was really beautiful andshe loved it.
And she's actually the one whocame to me and said, you know,
maybe you should think aboutoffering this to other people
(05:43):
because there's really nobodydoing it.
And I love my image so much andit might be a good way for you
to supplement your teachingincome.
so much.
And I was like, Oh, okay, yeah,I'll do it.
So I took that one picture and Iturned it into like a postcard
with my contact information onthe back.
And I just put it everywhere,every coffee shop, every
maternity store, every babystore, everything I could
possibly think of all overSeattle.
(06:05):
And, people started calling and,which was, shocking.
I was like, but so I startedthere.
And, maternity clients led tonewborn clients, obviously, and
then to family clients.
And so within about three yearsof that, Well, it started about
a year into it.
I went to part time teaching andthen about three years from that
(06:28):
time, I quit my teaching joband, and launched my business.
And so that's kind of how ithappened.
Raymond Hatfield (06:34):
So when you reached out to your friend to do
that first maternity shoot, itwas just in just being friendly.
Like, Hey, I have this camera.
Let's just try something forfun.
Sandra Coan (06:43):
Exactly.
It's like, you're so beautifuland you look amazing and let's
do it.
And she was like, yeah, let's doit.
Raymond Hatfield (06:48):
Oh, that's so awesome.
That is so awesome.
How like, I mean, obviouslyit's, it's a passion, right?
It's something that you enjoydoing and, and that just proves
it right there.
But, I'm kind of wondering, likeat that point, as you were still
kind of learning photography,what was the hardest part, maybe
about the technical side ofphotography for, for you to, to
grasp or fully understand?
Oh my God,
Sandra Coan (07:07):
all of it.
All of it.
Um, I
Raymond Hatfield (07:10):
didn't know
Sandra Coan (07:12):
what I was doing.
I mean, I'm a 100 percent selftaught photographer, self taught
business woman, self taught allthe things.
And, yeah, I didn't know what Iwas doing.
So, back when I got started, Imean, I am blessed, I think with
a naturally good eye forcomposition and I've always been
able to see light.
(07:33):
But I couldn't explain to youwhat I was doing.
Like in, in the beginning, Idon't think I know for a fact, I
didn't know what aperture meant.
I didn't know the words.
I didn't, you know, no shutterspeed.
I didn't know any of it.
And, I learned as I went
Raymond Hatfield (07:51):
Did you ever have like this aha moment of
like, Oh my gosh, everything isjust starting to come together
and make sense.
Sandra Coan (07:58):
I mean, yes, but it took a long time and you know,
honestly, this is why I loveteaching business actually just
posted about this today in myInstagram.
is the fact that I started how Idid the way I did.
and I'm here now just proves tome that if I can do this,
literally anyone can do thisbecause.
(08:20):
there's no reason why I shouldbe successful.
You're
Raymond Hatfield (08:23):
just saying because you're self taught,
there's no reason why you shouldbe
Sandra Coan (08:27):
successful.
Because I was so completelyclueless, you know, at the
beginning.
But it, it is, proof that if youwant this and you sit down and
do the work, you can make ithappen.
So this is this, I'm just goingto continue my story for a
little bit and that it might bea good segue.
Into the business side because Idid I think what a lot of
photographers did.
(08:48):
I decided when I got started.
So, okay, God, so I was doingmaternity building that
portfolio, right?
Like building newborn portfolioout, without really realizing
that that's what I was doingwith not understanding branding
or what that meant.
I was branding myself as anewborn, a maternity
photographer.
Really back before there werematernity photographers.
but when I made the switch to goto full time photography, when I
(09:12):
quit my teaching job, I wasterrified and I needed to make
money.
I needed to at least make what Iwas making as a teacher.
You know, and hopefully morebecause, that wasn't a lot.
and so I decided, I lookedaround and I was seeing like,
okay, well, what are otherphotographers doing?
Like people who look successfulor people who seem like they're
(09:33):
making money, what are theydoing?
I'm going to do that.
And so doing that, chasing that,led me to shooting weddings.
So what was hilarious about thisstory is that I'd been three
years building this brand as amaternity and newborn
photographer.
And then when I launched myselfas a full time photographer, I
launched myself as a weddingphotographer.
(09:53):
I'd never shot a wedding in mylife.
Raymond Hatfield (09:55):
You know, And typically your past clients,
don't need wedding photos.
No! I mean,
Sandra Coan (10:00):
it was just absurd, you know?
But, so I did that.
I shot weddings for a few years.
I hated it.
and I had gotten to the point,so in that time frame, I'd got
married, I had had twins, and Iwas at the point where I was
away from them all the time.
I was working all the time.
I was shooting weddings.
And I just was miserable.
(10:22):
And, and as a consequence, I'dstopped doing this portrait work
that I actually really, reallyloved.
And that's what, what started mywhole journey.
And so I got to the point I'llnever forget.
It was 2007 because my twinswere not quite a year old yet.
And I was like, well, this isridiculous.
If I'm going to keep doing thisand if this is going to be a
sustainable career and I need itto be, my family needs it to be,
(10:44):
I've got to be happy again.
And I decided to completelyrelaunch my business at that
time and rebrand myself as aportrait photographer, go back
to what I loved.
And so I started there, just intime for the great recession.
So
Raymond Hatfield (11:02):
perfect time.
Like perfect
Sandra Coan (11:04):
timing for me with like newborn twins at home.
No big deal.
But then, yeah.
And so I kind of rebranded thenand built, began the, uh, What I
have today so that my studio, Igot a studio.
and I just decided to ignore thetrends, stop looking at what
other people were doing, stopcomparing myself to other
(11:25):
people, and just get really,really clear on my vision, what
I do, my voice as an artist andgoing with that.
And that's also when I reallysat down and decided that I
needed to learn business.
that was probably when I, youknow, I was like eight years
into that point.
And that's probably when I waslike, huh, this is actually a
(11:47):
business.
Maybe I should learn what thatmeans.
And so, right.
I see.
I told you if I can do this,literally anybody can.
But so at that point I startedstudying and learning and I went
outside or into industry andreally just learned the
fundamentals of business andmarketing and branding.
And so I was building myportrait business while I was
(12:10):
studying all of that.
And I think that's what took meto the next level because it was
within like a year, year, twoyears of that where I, I really
broke that six figure mark forthe first time.
And it's just been
Raymond Hatfield (12:23):
going after having been in business for
eight years.
It was that one year of reallyfocusing on business marketing
and branding that really tookyou above that, that six figure.
Wow.
Okay.
So, so you talked a little bitthere about, um, how when you
decided to make the switch backfrom weddings to portraits that
you decided to completely rebrand yourself.
So before we even get into rebranding, let's talk about
(12:45):
branding.
So I reached out, to you, firstof all, to chat about branding
because this is what, this isthe stuff that I'm excited
about.
And when I asked the beautifulpeople of the Beginner
Photography Podcast Facebookgroup what questions they had
about branding, every responsewas exactly the same.
It was, what is branding?
I have no idea even where tostart.
So before we go any further,let's answer that question.
(13:08):
What is branding?
Sandra Coan (13:10):
Well, that's a great question.
And I think it's something thata lot of people confuse, people
oftentimes think that brandingis their logo or their color
palette or the fonts they use ontheir website, or their business
cards, you know, like I will, Ido one on one coaching with
people and I'll sit down withpeople and they're like, Oh, I
just did this big rebrand andit's still not working.
And I'm like, no, you didn't doa rebrand.
(13:31):
You just changed your logo.
Raymond Hatfield (13:34):
No wonder why it's not working.
Sandra Coan (13:35):
That's not a rebrand.
and so I do think that brandingis something that really
confuses people and people don'tknow what it is.
So what branding is your brand?
Is everything yes, it'simportant that you have,
consistent, you know, logo colorpalette font, you know, all that
kind of stuff, but your brandingis you, it is your style.
(13:56):
It is your work.
When you have a really, reallystrong brand, then someone sees
your image come up on theirInstagram feed and they know
right away that that is you,that is a strong brand.
That's what branding is.
it's that consistency in yourwork.
It's that, predictability.
It's, reliable, those sorts ofthings.
(14:17):
So it's a little more esoteric,I think, than, what people tend
to think of it.
As right, it's so much more.
It's your personality.
it's, you know, your clientexperience.
It's, your copy, the word thatyou use when you are your
business voice, on Instagram, onFacebook, on your website, it is
all those things, all those cometogether to create your brand
(14:42):
and who you are.
Does that make sense?
Raymond Hatfield (14:44):
it does, yeah.
And I think, I think what'sinteresting about that is that,
because while you were talking Iwas kind of putting myself back
into where I was when I firststarted and, also assumed that
branding was just like a logoand like a cool tagline or maybe
like a font that you used onyour website.
Yeah.
And I think that it's easy tothink those things because
they're easy to check off of alist.
(15:04):
Whereas everything else is likeconsistent editing style, what
it is that you're posting andthe words that you say on your
website are, a lot harder todefine because it comes from you
personally and not just, well, Ibought this logo off Fiverr and
now I'm ready to go.
Exactly.
So yeah, it's much more
Sandra Coan (15:20):
complicated than that.
And really developing a reallygood brand too.
I think, it requires a certainamount of, Introspection and,
bravery because, like my story,right, when I decided to like
quit weddings, quit doing allthe other things and really
focus on what I was doing, whatI didn't realize I was doing
right then was developing mybrand, coming up with my brand,
(15:45):
working, with, okay, well, whatis it that you do?
Like, yes, maybe you're awedding photographer, but what
is your take on weddingphotography?
What is your style?
What is your point of view?
What is your passion?
How does that come through inyour work?
Maybe you're a portraitphotographer.
I'm a portrait photographer.
I'm a newborn photographer instudio, right?
My work doesn't look likeanybody else's work because it's
(16:06):
my vision.
It's my unique take on it.
That is my brand my passionbehind it helps create that.
But getting to that point, itdoes take some, like I said,
some introspection, some work.
It's about figuring out what itis that you do your unique take
on something, your unique pointof view, and then being brave
(16:29):
enough to do it.
Because there's also risk inthat, right?
It's really scary.
It feels so much safer to lookat what is on trend, what are
other successful photographersdoing, and do that.
But unfortunately, when you dodo that, you just become one of
many, because there's a lot ofphotographers who are coming
that.
You know, or who are doing that.
(16:49):
So if you want that brand thatreally stands out, that is
instantly recognizable thatrequires doing the work to make
sure that you are crystal clearon your point of view, your
unique take, and then you'rebrave enough to put that out.
Raymond Hatfield (17:05):
Okay.
So I'm going to ask you a reallyhard question here.
What is one question that we canask ourselves that forces us to
look inside and come up with ananswer for us to, better
understand our brand or put iton our website.
What is it that we're looking todo after that?
Sandra Coan (17:19):
Well, first of all to get there you have to sit
down and ask yourself.
What is it that you do?
What is it that you do right andyou can't say?
Oh, well, I'm a photographer OrI'm a baby photographer or I'm a
wedding photographer.
No, what is it that you do?
That's a hard question.
Raymond Hatfield (17:37):
Okay, Sandra, what is it that you do?
Sandra Coan (17:40):
What is it that I do?
I am a, studio portraitphotographer who specializes in
film.
That's what I do.
My unique take is that I don'tadhere to the rules of
traditional studio photographyin some ways.
My work is about connection.
(18:00):
It's about soulfulness.
Is that a word?
I don't know.
It is now.
It is now.
That's what I bring.
So yes, I fit inside the box ofstudio photographer or film
photographer, but I bring theseother elements into it that are
uniquely me.
The way I work with my clients,the way I see them, the way they
allow me to see them, how I pullthat out of people, how I can
(18:24):
have a real traditional setup,but still have images that are
modern and fresh.
That's what I bring to it.
That's my brand.
Raymond Hatfield (18:31):
Yeah, I could already tell just from the way
that you described that, thatit, there's just so much more
information there that I nowknow about you and how you work
and what it is that you deliverrather than just saying that
you're a newborn photographer.
So yeah, thank you for giving usmore of a solid understanding
of, of what branding is.
Yeah.
So branding is obviously like,it's a lot of things like we
(18:53):
just talked about.
Is there something thatlisteners can focus on when they
get started in branding.
Sandra Coan (19:02):
Yeah.
Focus on what brings you joy.
Focus on what you love focus onwhat you do You know the thing
that almost killed me and almostkilled my business was me trying
to be like everybody else Butyou know, I've already touched
on and it took me deciding,almost like blinders You like
when they put those blinders onthe horses, yeah, so they can't
look anywhere.
I had to do that for myself.
(19:24):
I had to stop comparing myself.
I had to stop looking at otherpeople and just really just
focus like a laser on what it isthat I love.
What am I naturally drawn to do?
How do I naturally want toshoot?
I think, we all have differentpoint of views.
there's not.
There are no two people on theplanet who can see things the
exact same way.
(19:44):
I mean, that's amazing.
And yet we all try to do whatother people are doing.
if we can just focus on thatunique take and just really,
hone it, create, make it thebest you can possibly make it
just like really build yourunique take and your unique
vision.
(20:05):
I mean, that's where the magicis.
And it's harder to do than itsounds.
I mean, it's easy for me to belike, Oh, follow your bliss and
you'll be great, you know,you'll be great.
Even
Raymond Hatfield (20:13):
me talking to you right now, it's like, I feel
like I've been in business for afew years and I kind of have an
idea of what it is that I do,but I still struggle putting
that down on paper, you know,figure out exactly what that is
and and I know the feeling thatI get when I'm at like a good
wedding and I'm having fun andthe couple's having fun and that
everything goes well But writingit down in a way that I think
communicates what makes meunique is uh, it is difficult.
(20:37):
So understand that
Sandra Coan (20:38):
yeah, there's different ways you can do it in
your brand.
So you, you get that concept,right?
And that should start comingthrough in your work.
Your work should show yourstyle, your point of view, what
you believe in, but it shouldalso be infused with who you are
and your personality.
And then you're right.
Then you write it down, then itstarts to come across in the
copy that you have on yourwebsite and how you describe
your work to your clients andhow all of that should be
(21:01):
working together.
And then yes, then you tie inbeautiful logo and a nice color
palette, and it all starts towork together, right?
Your words, your personality,your image, your point of view,
all those other things, and thatbecomes your brand.
Raymond Hatfield (21:16):
Perfect.
You must see, like, a lot ofother photographers, and their
branding, what it is that eitherthey send to you or just other
websites that you look at.
I don't know if you've still gotthose blinders on and that
you're not looking at anybodyelse, but, there any mistakes
that you see well establishedphotographers making when it
comes to branding themselves.
Sandra Coan (21:35):
Yeah, I fell victim to this, too I mean, I'm human
right and I have taken theblinders off because that's part
of my job You know,
Raymond Hatfield (21:42):
yeah,
Sandra Coan (21:43):
I go around and I'm you know speaking and I'm
teaching and I'm interactingwith people I'm working with
people and I do look at otherpeople's stuff all the time And
I think that the worst thingthat we can do is compare
ourself to other people Compareour work to other people's work.
I do it.
I have a really establishedbrand and kind of a killer
business.
And I still look at otherpeople's work and they're like,
(22:04):
Oh man, so good.
I can be better.
I could do better.
You know, like that kind ofstuff.
And it's good to push yourselfand to be inspired, but I say,
don't, don't fall into thattrap.
There's that great quote wherewhat is it like comparison is
the thief of joy or something.
I'm misquoting it, but I mean,it's so true.
(22:24):
So, you know, Like, hard.
And it's hard when you're anartist and your art is your
business.
Because you're selling a pieceof you.
I mean, that's really vulnerableand really hard and really
scary.
Raymond Hatfield (22:39):
So, when it comes to mistakes that more
established photographers aremaking, are you saying that
maybe they spend too much time,selling themselves?
Sandra Coan (22:48):
No, I think it's important to sell yourself.
I think any photographerestablished or not the mistake
you make is questioningyourself.
Oh, it's questioning what youdo.
Raymond Hatfield (22:57):
I see.
I see Okay, could be a toughone.
That can be a time becausethat's like naturally what we as
humans do yeah, so and as
Sandra Coan (23:08):
artists I mean like I always tell people being in
business is like being intherapy man Because like just by
definition because of what we doI mean it forces you to it like
rub up against all yourinsecurities, it's rough.
Yeah, we're crazy
Raymond Hatfield (23:23):
We're all crazy people and you got you got
some good days that are justlike you're just riding high
It's like amazing and then youhave other days where you just
think you know, what maybe i'dbe happier making 12 at
starbucks
Sandra Coan (23:35):
I mean literally last year week I said to one of
my best friends who's also inthe industry, I was like, God,
maybe I should just quit and bea barista.
Raymond Hatfield (23:43):
You said that to them?
Why?
What was it that you werefeeling at that point?
Sandra Coan (23:46):
I mean, I, I have all the things too.
Like one day you're like, I'mamazing.
This is fantastic.
I've totally got this.
And then, you know, and thenother days I'm like, this is
exhausting.
And I totally blew it.
And I could have done a betterjob.
Well,
Raymond Hatfield (24:03):
we can always do a better job, but it's good
to, you know, give yourself thatfree pass and let yourself go
from time to time.
I want to know, because thereare some photographers who
listen to the podcast whohonestly have no intentions of
going into business.
They have no intentions ofmaking money, but they use
photography just for fun, as ahobby.
(24:23):
Maybe they post photos toInstagram or Facebook.
Should those photographers beworried about branding at all?
Sandra Coan (24:30):
Yeah, I think if you're doing your photography
well and you are being authenticto your voice as an artist
You're building a brand whetheryou realize it or not Cause
really that's, having thoseimages that people are, that are
instantly recognizable as you,that's building a brand.
And, yeah.
So even if, you know, it's notyour intention to go out and
(24:52):
create a business, listen, itwas never my intention to go out
and create a business.
Here I am You never know Butreally it's just about that
consistency and being true toyour voice now another thing I
hear a lot and I'm just throwingthis out there Maybe this
applies to some of your yourlisteners, but I hear from
people who are just starting aswell What if I love doing a lot
(25:14):
of different things, you know?
But if I love shooting weddingsand I love shooting portraits
and I love photographing dogsor, you know, whatever, then
what do I do?
How do I build a consistentbrand that way?
And, what I always say is evenif you are photographing
different things, you still haveyour style that you bring to it.
like I'm sure like just the twoof us, like if I were God forbid
(25:37):
to go in and photograph awedding, I would bring my point
of view, right?
Like my take on that and wewould have a different
experience, you know You can set10 photographers in the same
room all photographing the samething and everybody's image is
going to look different
Raymond Hatfield (25:53):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I don't know if you've seenthat.
Uh canon, don't think it was anad but it was a promotion where
they took I think it was justthat 10 photographers and they
put them in a room with onesubject But each time they told
the photographer that thesubject was something different.
So like Oh yeah, the subject islike this high level CEO.
Go ahead and like, go photographhim.
(26:14):
Next guy was like, this guy'slike an ex inmate, go ahead and
photograph him.
And each photo that came out,was really interesting how you
could just see the, the storythat was being told through the
photographer's perspective.
Oh, wow.
No,
Sandra Coan (26:26):
now I'm going to have to go look that up.
Raymond Hatfield (26:27):
Yeah, I'll have to, I'll have to send you a
link.
I'll have to send you a link.
I think it was on YouTube.
It was from a few years ago, butit's still there.
It's really interesting stuff,and it just kind of rings true
to what it is that you'resaying, is that we each have our
own personal voice.
and, um, We just have to find itand learn how to put it down on
paper, I suppose.
and even if you're not makingmoney, you can still come up
with that voice just, justthrough your images.
So yeah,
Sandra Coan (26:48):
find your voice and then be brave enough to do it.
Raymond Hatfield (26:51):
So that kind of brings me to, my next
question, which is we hear alot.
And in fact, from yourselfincluded, you said that
photographers like to go throughrebrands, right?
Every, like, three or fouryears, we're like, Complete
rebrand! I'm doing this thing.
So, I guess for one, are thosephotographers truly doing a
rebrand?
Or is it that they are justbored of the colors on their
(27:14):
website and that they're lookingfor something new?
Because if our brand is ourvoice, how much are we really
changing through a rebrand?
we need a rebrand?
Sandra Coan (27:24):
Yeah.
I personally think if you'rechanging your website, you're
just changing your website.
That's not a rebrand.
I changed my, I changed mywebsite all the time.
cause I get bored of it and Iget, you know, I want it to be
fresh and, evolved, but my brandis consistent and the same.
Who I am, my work, my point ofview, all of that is consistent,
the same.
And I get a lot of pushback onthis.
(27:45):
I actually have a branding classactually on creative live,
where, I got up and said, infront of like 70, 000 people in
a live view, like, no, yourbrand's not your logo.
And everybody was like, that'stotally like, that is like, that
is a part of it.
You know, absolutely.
It's a part of it, but that isnot it.
Like, it's not enough to say,okay, something in my business
(28:05):
isn't working.
So I'm going to change my logoand somehow that's going to
magically fix the problem.
That's not, that's not therebrand.
If something's not working inyour business, you have a bigger
problem than what your logolooks like, you
Raymond Hatfield (28:18):
know?
Oh, of course.
Yeah, nobody's not booking youbecause your logo is a teal.
Because they're
Sandra Coan (28:22):
like, you know, the color palette just really isn't
speaking to me, so.
Raymond Hatfield (28:27):
Right.
You know, if
Sandra Coan (28:27):
somebody's not working, booking you, then you
are, there's something confusingin your messaging.
Either your work isn'tconsistent or it's all over the
place.
They don't know what they'regoing to get from you.
If you have a really strongbrand, your clients should know
exactly what their images aregoing to look like.
Before they ever see any of it,like one of the things I do in
my business, which people thinkis really weird is, you know,
(28:48):
I'm a film photographer.
So, but the end of a sessionwith me, I haven't even seen the
images.
My clients haven't seen theimages, it's like two weeks
before.
and yet I sit with people at theend of my sessions and we do
their ordering session becausemy people are really busy.
They don't have time to comeback in and people order.
Wall prints and albums and allof that before any of us have
(29:09):
seen their work.
All right.
So why does that work?
Why does that work for me?
Because I have a really strong,consistent brand.
People know what their imagesare going to look like before
they ever walk through the door.
That is branding.
Not your logo and your font,
Raymond Hatfield (29:28):
right?
Yeah, so kind of sub questionthere, are they just kind of
reserving that they will have a8x10 print or that they will
have this?
Because surely there's no waythat they know exactly which,
uh, which photos they wantthere.
Sandra Coan (29:42):
Yeah.
So they say, Hey, yeah, I'mdefinitely going to want the
album.
And, that's what I sell the mostof are my, my fine art albums.
And then it, you know, a lot ofmy people don't even want to
choose the images.
They just let me do it.
Raymond Hatfield (29:53):
Oh, wow.
How great.
How great that must be.
So then we just like put ittogether
Sandra Coan (29:57):
and yeah, it's everybody.
Raymond Hatfield (30:00):
Well then, I kind of want to ask a more
direct question.
You just shared an example ofhow building a strong, um, brand
builds trust How can a strongbrand make photographers more
money?
Sandra Coan (30:14):
Well, that's all that all goes together, right?
Because if you have a strongbrand you have authority it
creates authority it createstrust And it raises your
perceived value.
So people will come in and spendthousands of dollars ordering
product before they've seentheir images, for example,
because you have authoritybecause they already trust you
(30:36):
listen, first of all, peoplewant to do business with people
they know, like and trust,right?
We all know that and you createthat no, like, and trust factor
before people walk through yourdoor, through your branding,
through consistency, throughyour copy.
Through the way you talk aboutwhat you do and how you do it,
all of that kind of stuff.
So everything you, you do,everything that you're doing in
(30:57):
your branding, you are preppingyour people to work with you.
So all of it is work before theyever even get in front of your
camera.
And that does increase your,your value.
And then suddenly people, aren'tsquabbling about pricing or any
of that, right?
Because you are an authority.
The other thing, you know, whenI went back and I was saying,
(31:19):
with the The number one mistakeI see people do is that they,
they chase trends or they try todo what other successful
photographers are doing and howthat hurts you because you
become one of many.
Well, because becoming one ofmany is also, How you hurt your,
your bottom line, because whenyou're one of many, that is when
you're attracting priceshoppers, because if you're just
(31:40):
like everybody else, the onlything they have to compare you
to compare you on is yourpricing and what you're
offering.
Whereas if you have a uniquebrand, if you're something
special, if you're standing out,well, then it becomes a matter
of, no, I want that.
And she or he is the only personwho can give me that, and I want
it, so I'm going to pay whateverI need to pay to get it.
(32:03):
Right?
you know, it's just like afundamental difference
Raymond Hatfield (32:06):
in
Sandra Coan (32:07):
the expectation or even the desire to work with
you.
Raymond Hatfield (32:11):
Okay.
Yeah, no, it does make sense.
I guess I, um, was asking toospecific of a question when
really it's it's not just like,here's branding.
You're done.
Fill this form out.
Here you go.
It does require a lot ofpersonal work that you do gotta
put in.
Yes.
It's like therapy.
It's it's like, it's liketherapy.
It's like therapy.
so yeah, do appreciate thatanswer.
(32:32):
I definitely got something outof it.
and.
I will admit that I asked youthe wrong question there.
It wasn't a very good question,but you handled it with grace
and you answered it very well.
So thank you.
Sandra Coan (32:42):
Well, and I also know like sometimes when I talk
about branding or I talk aboutthese things, it feels a little
bit like I'm talking about likefairies or something, right?
Like it's kind of hard to, it'skind of hard to nail down
because it is so subtle andthere's a lot of nuance.
And like you said, it's not justas easy as, fill this out and
this is, your brand, there's alot of introspection.
(33:04):
There's a lot of, work thattakes some time to figure out.
Raymond Hatfield (33:08):
Well, then speaking of work, is there any
action items that we should bedoing after listening to this
episode that we should be doingto, to get started, cultivating
what our brand is or thinkingabout to start to cultivate what
our brand is?
Sandra Coan (33:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
come back to that question that,I asked at the beginning, like,
what is it that you do?
What is your unique take?
What do you love?
What is that thing that youcould do over and over and over
again, 8, 000 times and neverget sick of it?
really start paying attention tothat and, write it down and
start figuring it out.
(33:41):
and the more intentionally youare about it, then you start to
grow, grow this, like, um, Ican't remember who, somebody
asked me the other day, becauseI have been doing this forever.
And I have a really simple setof, I have a studio, I have, a
white backdrop and I have a graybackdrop, it's like my favorite
thing in the world.
And somebody was like, well,don't you get tired or, or sick
(34:02):
of doing what you're doing andget kind of burnt out after
almost 20 years.
And it's like, no.
I don't like that's because it'ssuch a piece of me, you know,
like I could take a family or alittle baby and put them in
front of a simple whitebackdrop.
With the exact same lighting anddo the exact same thing every
single day for the rest of mylife because I freaking love it
(34:24):
Yeah, like I'm obsessed with it.
I just I can't explain it Itseems silly but it is such a
part of what I do and how much Ilove it and and I believe so
much in the importancePortraiture and getting one
beautiful image from a session,I could go on and on and on.
It is like, that passion isinfused into my brand, into what
I do, into my pictures.
(34:46):
So I can put somebody in frontof a simple gray backdrop, with
one light and I'm photographingthem on my Roloflex or whatever.
And get giddy, like I getexcited to do it every single
time.
Find that.
Raymond Hatfield (35:01):
Is it okay if we don't know what that is right
now?
Sandra Coan (35:03):
It took me eight years before I even started like
before any of this even like waslike, huh, maybe I
Raymond Hatfield (35:11):
should
Sandra Coan (35:12):
And literally before then I was doing all the
things that I just said not todo I photographed weddings I
photographed real estate.
I photographed events andparties dogs.
I had like a whole dog thing.
I don't even like dogs, right?
So just to say, so absolutely,you know, like I said, it's easy
(35:34):
for me to say, you know, followyour bliss.
It's a lot harder to sit downand actually figure out what
your bliss is.
So to get back to your question,like what is an actionable item
that you can be doing?
Start paying attention to that.
Start treating your art as whatit is, which is an extension of
you.
And when you can pull that intoyour business, that's where the
(35:55):
magic happens.
And again, it's scary.
Raymond Hatfield (35:58):
Yeah, no, for sure.
It's funny because, I was reallyexcited to ask you, what are
some of the mistakes that you'vemade with your own branding, so
that we know not to do, but, Ithink you just shared them all
right there.
I've made all the mistakes,friend.
Sandra Coan (36:10):
All the mistakes.
Raymond Hatfield (36:13):
Oh, that's funny.
Yeah, once again, as, assomebody who educates
photographers on branding, youmust hear from those
photographers maybe other advicethat they've heard.
Is there any commonly badinformation that you hear being
taught about branding?
Sandra Coan (36:30):
People, I think get told that there's one thing, one
way to do something.
And that they have to do it thisway to be successful.
And that's not true.
That's my belief anyway.
There's no one way to do it,right?
We're all like special littlerainbows Everybody's a little
different just go with it Soactually just to to talk about
this for a second if I can gooff on another thing like I do I
(36:52):
love them.
Yeah my assistant and I werelaughing yesterday because I was
trying, I was attempting to dolike an Instagram story and I
was showing like a lightingsetup and all this stuff.
And I got stuck inside the softbox and I was tripping over
things and I, like I got tangledin my camera strap and my light
meter strap and all this stuffand, I realized like I do that
(37:14):
all the time.
Like I'm like clumsy, like I'llbe up on stage at a conference
and like, I'll trip oversomething or I'll knock,
something off the podium orwhatever.
That's who I am.
And she was filming all thebehind the scenes, me getting
stuck in the softbox and all thethings.
And then we got done recordingit.
I was like, you didn't postthat.
Did you?
And she's like, yeah, I postedit.
She's like, that's part of yourbrand.
You're kind of a disaster.
(37:38):
Somehow you make it work.
And I'm like, okay, that's partof my brand, I guess.
So
Raymond Hatfield (37:44):
endearing.
Yeah.
Sandra Coan (37:47):
No, it is like, I'd like, I have bruises all over my
legs because I literally runinto things all the time.
That's who I am.
So I think, think the mistakethat people make is thinking
there's one way to do itthinking that you have to be
perfect thinking that you haveto be polished, you know, just
be yourself and if if yourselfgets stuck in a softbox
sometimes, you know
Raymond Hatfield (38:06):
Post it on instagram
Sandra Coan (38:07):
just post it on instagram.
That's who you are.
My lighting's really good It'sjust sometimes I get stuck
inside a softbox.
Raymond Hatfield (38:12):
Well, they can be big softboxes.
I understand it It's really hardIt's hard to set up.
Okay, i'm sure you have one ofthose like eight foot like big
ones that you put right in frontright
Sandra Coan (38:23):
I do.
I have a giant seven foot oneand it's got all the spokes and
it's like wrestling with anoctopus trying to get that thing
up.
It's terrifying.
Raymond Hatfield (38:30):
I've never wrestled with an octopus, but I
can imagine.
I can imagine what it would belike.
That's funny.
Yeah.
there was anything that likeafter all of this, like you're
here today, is there anythingthat if you had to do it all
over again that you would do tochange, to get to where you are
today, but faster?
Sandra Coan (38:48):
Yeah, when I first started taking money from
people, I would have realizedthat the fact that I was taking
money from people in exchangefor photos meant that I was in a
business and I would love tohave gone back and sat down and
started studying business atthat time, you know, instead of
waiting eight years.
(39:10):
running around trying to figureit out.
Like the one thing.
Yeah.
Like
Raymond Hatfield (39:14):
about business that you think is, it's just
like a really good startingfoundation.
Sandra Coan (39:19):
Well, understanding what branding true branding is,
Raymond Hatfield (39:22):
is
Sandra Coan (39:23):
really important.
understanding marketing and whatmarketing is and the concept of,
content marketing and all ofthat.
That's a whole nother podcast.
We could do that.
I could talk about marketing allday because it all goes in
Raymond Hatfield (39:36):
the
Sandra Coan (39:37):
box, right?
Because it's like a three partthing, right?
You have to know what you do.
That's the branding piece.
You have to know who your peopleare and then you have to know
how to communicate what you doto your people.
And that's the marketing piece.
Raymond Hatfield (39:48):
See, if you would ask a lot of the listeners
about marketing, they would say,Oh, it'd be like a Facebook ad
or, something that you put onInstagram or something.
Sandra Coan (39:56):
Yeah, it's much so much more than that.
Raymond Hatfield (39:59):
Once again, you're kind of tying it back to
being more introspective.
And I think you're solidifyingthat idea of therapy to the
list.
Yeah, it is being
Sandra Coan (40:06):
a business.
It's like being, it's likesigning up for lifelong therapy.
Raymond Hatfield (40:11):
No, it's just the truth.
Throughout your whole career asa photographer, want to know
what the best investment thatyou've ever made in, whether it
be in money, time, or energy?
Oh, God, that's a really goodquestion.
I stole it from Tim Ferriss.
So don't don't don't give me thecredit.
Sandra Coan (40:28):
Well, well done, Tim Ferriss.
I think for me, for my work,personally, learning how to use
lighting, I was terrified oflighting for so long.
And I would just like, Telleverybody it was a natural light
photographer.
And I, you know, I was kind ofsmug about it, but really that
was just code for, I actuallydon't know how to use lights and
they terrify me.
and when I just like got overmyself and decided to learn it,
(40:51):
it like changed my life.
So learning that, yeah, reallyworth it.
Raymond Hatfield (40:58):
When was that?
How long ago?
Sandra Coan (41:00):
Probably like seven, eight years ago.
I mean, are you, are younoticing a trend with me by the
way, where I spend like aridiculous amount of time just
trying to figure it out on myown.
And then I'm like, Oh, I guess Ishould actually just like learn
that.
And then it changes my life.
Yeah.
So learn from me, and don'tspend all that time trying to
(41:21):
figure it out on your own.
Don't you wish you could just
Raymond Hatfield (41:23):
like know right now, like, what is it that
I'm not paying attention toright now?
Because that's probably the mostimportant thing.
Yes! Oh my god, yes.
That's funny.
Absolutely.
Well, Sandra, I gotta say,everything that you've shared
today has been very helpful.
I'm sure not only to thelistener, but to me as well,
honestly.
I learned some things.
And I know that I need to goback to my website and maybe do
(41:43):
myself a rebrand and get a newlogo and, uh, no, but, uh,
there's obviously a lot ofquestions that I need to ask
myself, going forward just to,just to work on building a
better brand.
And I know that the listenerspicked up a whole bunch as well.
So thank you so much.
I got one last question for you.
Is there anything that I didn'task you today that you want to
make sure that the listenersknow?
Sandra Coan (42:04):
Yeah, absolutely.
So if you need more help, I havean entire website that I
dedicate just to otherphotographers.
Speaking of branding, I kind ofseparated my brand into two
pieces.
I have Sandra cone photography,which is for my clients.
And now I have Sandra Coaneducation.
com just for photographers.
And I talk about all this stuffall the time because I'm
(42:25):
actually.
Like I said, like strangelypassionate about it.
So there's a lot of greatresources for, photography and
lighting and business and allthose things that you can find
there.
And I'm also co owner of acompany called lady boss
workshops, where we just kind oftake this one step further.
(42:46):
It's myself and my businesspartner, Elena S Blair.
And we again, we teach aboutmarketing and business and all
these things together and youknow, it's primarily that part
of it is primarily focused for,female photographers because
this is still a really maledominated industry and we want
to see more women beingempowered to create killer
(43:07):
businesses that they love andthat are profitable.
However, that said, we have alot of what we call bro togs in
the group too, our man and theyare, of course, always welcome.
Raymond Hatfield (43:20):
That's funny.
I was just imagining, like thatmovie, the little rascals from
like the nineties or whatever,how they had their, their no
girls allowed club, uh, the heman woman haters or something
like that would never fly in amovie today if you were to write
Sandra Coan (43:34):
that down.
Raymond Hatfield (43:36):
That's funny.
Well, again, Sandra, though,thank you so much for coming on
the podcast.
Alright, this week's actionitem.
Meaning if you implement justone thing in your photography
this week, let it be this onebecause it will inevitably move
the needle forward in your work.
It is this, write down threethings that you absolutely love
(43:58):
to photograph.
Photography is a mirror,remember, so when we define what
it is that we love to shoot,we're also kind of defining
ourselves.
So grab a pen, a paper and set afive minute timer and write out
everything that you love aboutphotography from the types of
sessions to style to, uh, typesof moment, format and medium,
(44:21):
like how dangerous shoots onfilm.
Or even just write down thetypes of subjects that you like
to photograph.
I mean, write down anything andeverything that just brings you
joy when it comes tophotography.
When your timer goes off, thengo ahead and take that list of
everything that you wrote downand try to narrow that down to
just three things, your topthree things, and now use that
(44:46):
list of the top three thingsthat you love most about
photography and create a roadmapfor the types of projects that
you want to shoot or the type ofclients that you want to
attract.
This right here is thefoundation for your brand and
when you're done, I would loveto hear'em.
(45:07):
So feel free to share your threethings that you love most about
photography in the BeginnerPhotography podcast community.
It is free and it is the safestplace on the internet for new
photographers like yourself,which you can join myself and
more than 6,000 other listenersby heading over to beginner
photo pod.com/group.
(45:30):
Again, that's beginner photo podslash group.
We'd love to have you.
All right, that's it for today.
Until next week, remember, themore that you shoot today, the
better of a photographer youwill be tomorrow.
Talk soon.
I do think that branding is something that
(00:01):
really confuses people andpeople don't know what it is.
So what branding is, your brandis everything.
Yes, it's important that youhave consistent logo, color
palette, font, you know, allthat kind of stuff, but your
branding is you, it is yourstyle.
It is your work.
When you have a really, reallystrong brand, then someone sees
(00:23):
your image come up on theirInstagram feed and they know
right away that that is you,that is a strong brand.
That's what branding is.
Raymond Hatfield (00:34):
Hey, guess what it is, Raymond, here.
Welcome to the BeginnerPhotography Podcast.
I'm your host, and each week Iinterview one of the world's
most interesting photographersto learn, well, what does it
really take to capture beautifulimages?
And I share that with you sothat you can start to do the
same.
In today's rewind episode, weare chatting with newborn and
family film photographer SandraCone, about how defining a brand
(00:57):
for yourself can set you apartfrom others and help you to
build a profitable photobusiness.
But first, you know that theBeginner Photography Podcast is
brought to you by Cloud Spot.
With Clouds Spot, you cansimplify your business With
Studio Management Clouds Spotlets you organize clients, send
professional contracts, automateinvoice payments and more.
(01:19):
So keeping track of everythingin your photography business
just got a whole lot easier.
So grab your free foreveraccount today
over@deliverphotos.com, and thenyou only upgrade when you're
ready.
No matter how many times you'veheard it, or maybe you've even
said it yourself, the truth isyour images, they don't speak
for themselves.
I mean, how could they as a newphotographer, you're still
(01:40):
trying to find your photographicvoice.
So the question becomes how dowe get eyes on our work?
Branding is a great way to buildyour reputation and what you
stand for as a photographer.
And today's guest, Sandra Cone,is the woman with a plan to help
you out.
Sandra is an amazingphotographer and something
that's a bit of a rarity thesedays.
(02:02):
A family photographer who shootsprimarily on film.
In fact, I think it'sexclusively on film.
I could be wrong about that.
But regardless if you think thatit's hard capturing, sharp
photos of kids running around ondigital where you have like
burst mode and stuff, then justtake a look at Sandra's work and
you'll have an immense amount ofappreciation for the type of
(02:24):
images that she captures andwhat it is that she does by
shooting on film.
Truly incredible.
And that the shooting film,supports her brand too.
It talks about being the kind ofphotographer who she wants to
be, and I'm really excited forher to share with you how
finding your own brand voicewill help you to transform your
(02:44):
work, your confidence, andhonestly your bottom line.
But first, a quick reminder thatthe Beginner Photography podcast
is not something that you listento and then never think about it
again.
Your time is too precious, so I,I encourage you to take
listening seriously.
I, I mean, Sandra has more than20 years of experience as a
(03:08):
working and profitablephotographer, and she's sharing
that with you today, all in thehopes that it helps you make
something click, but things onlyclick when you click them.
When you take action on thethings that you learn.
So again, listen activelyotherwise, you might as well
(03:32):
just be doom scrolling andneither of us want that.
You're better than that.
Okay, with that, let's go aheadand get on into today's
interview with Sandra Cone.
Sandra, thank you so much forcoming on the podcast.
Sandra Coan (03:45):
Yeah, well, thank you so much for having me.
What an honor to be here.
Raymond Hatfield (03:49):
Well, I'm really excited to chat with you
today because, I want to know alittle bit more about you and
how you got your start inphotography.
Sandra Coan (03:56):
I've always done photography Let me just start by
saying that it's always been apart of my life.
My dad was a enthusiast and weactually had a darkroom in our
house when 70s, right?
So the regulations on chemicalsand stuff were a little bit more
loosey goosey.
So, uh, but I grew up around it.
(04:16):
Right.
And it was always something Ihad.
I always had a camera.
It was always something I loved,but, like I said, I didn't think
of it as like a career option.
And, in the nineties back in theday, I was teaching.
I just started teachingkindergarten.
It was my first couple years ofteaching.
I was paying, you know, mystudent loans and graduate
school of a single time livingin Seattle, which is a really
(04:38):
expensive city.
And I just wasn't making it onmy teaching income.
I was actually, as a full timeteacher with a master's degree,
I qualified for food stamps.
Those first years.
Yeah, it was rough, right?
You believe?
I mean, that's a whole, Like theconversation, and about this
time, my friends were allgetting married and my, my good
(04:59):
friend Ginger had just gotmarried and was expecting her
first baby.
And I said to her, Oh, you're sobeautiful.
We should do a maternity photo.
Now this was the nineties.
This was back before thematernity industry was what it
is now, right?
We were all kind of stillreeling from that.
The image that Annie Leibovitzhad taken of Demi Moore, you
know, remember?
Raymond Hatfield (05:20):
And yeah,
Sandra Coan (05:21):
Exactly.
Right.
So I said to Ginger, I'm like,Oh, we should take a photo like
that of you.
And she's like, yeah, let's doit.
So we did.
And we got really one picturefrom the whole session that was
good or worth anything.
But it was really beautiful andshe loved it.
And she's actually the one whocame to me and said, you know,
maybe you should think aboutoffering this to other people
(05:43):
because there's really nobodydoing it.
And I love my image so much andit might be a good way for you
to supplement your teachingincome.
so much.
And I was like, Oh, okay, yeah,I'll do it.
So I took that one picture and Iturned it into like a postcard
with my contact information onthe back.
And I just put it everywhere,every coffee shop, every
maternity store, every babystore, everything I could
possibly think of all overSeattle.
(06:05):
And, people started calling and,which was, shocking.
I was like, but so I startedthere.
And, maternity clients led tonewborn clients, obviously, and
then to family clients.
And so within about three yearsof that, Well, it started about
a year into it.
I went to part time teaching andthen about three years from that
(06:28):
time, I quit my teaching joband, and launched my business.
And so that's kind of how ithappened.
Raymond Hatfield (06:34):
So when you reached out to your friend to do
that first maternity shoot, itwas just in just being friendly.
Like, Hey, I have this camera.
Let's just try something forfun.
Sandra Coan (06:43):
Exactly.
It's like, you're so beautifuland you look amazing and let's
do it.
And she was like, yeah, let's doit.
Raymond Hatfield (06:48):
Oh, that's so awesome.
That is so awesome.
How like, I mean, obviouslyit's, it's a passion, right?
It's something that you enjoydoing and, and that just proves
it right there.
But, I'm kind of wondering, likeat that point, as you were still
kind of learning photography,what was the hardest part, maybe
about the technical side ofphotography for, for you to, to
grasp or fully understand?
Oh my God,
Sandra Coan (07:07):
all of it.
All of it.
Um, I
Raymond Hatfield (07:10):
didn't know
Sandra Coan (07:12):
what I was doing.
I mean, I'm a 100 percent selftaught photographer, self taught
business woman, self taught allthe things.
And, yeah, I didn't know what Iwas doing.
So, back when I got started, Imean, I am blessed, I think with
a naturally good eye forcomposition and I've always been
able to see light.
(07:33):
But I couldn't explain to youwhat I was doing.
Like in, in the beginning, Idon't think I know for a fact, I
didn't know what aperture meant.
I didn't know the words.
I didn't, you know, no shutterspeed.
I didn't know any of it.
And, I learned as I went
Raymond Hatfield (07:51):
Did you ever have like this aha moment of
like, Oh my gosh, everything isjust starting to come together
and make sense.
Sandra Coan (07:58):
I mean, yes, but it took a long time and you know,
honestly, this is why I loveteaching business actually just
posted about this today in myInstagram.
is the fact that I started how Idid the way I did.
and I'm here now just proves tome that if I can do this,
literally anyone can do thisbecause.
(08:20):
there's no reason why I shouldbe successful.
You're
Raymond Hatfield (08:23):
just saying because you're self taught,
there's no reason why you shouldbe
Sandra Coan (08:27):
successful.
Because I was so completelyclueless, you know, at the
beginning.
But it, it is, proof that if youwant this and you sit down and
do the work, you can make ithappen.
So this is this, I'm just goingto continue my story for a
little bit and that it might bea good segue.
Into the business side because Idid I think what a lot of
photographers did.
(08:48):
I decided when I got started.
So, okay, God, so I was doingmaternity building that
portfolio, right?
Like building newborn portfolioout, without really realizing
that that's what I was doingwith not understanding branding
or what that meant.
I was branding myself as anewborn, a maternity
photographer.
Really back before there werematernity photographers.
but when I made the switch to goto full time photography, when I
(09:12):
quit my teaching job, I wasterrified and I needed to make
money.
I needed to at least make what Iwas making as a teacher.
You know, and hopefully morebecause, that wasn't a lot.
and so I decided, I lookedaround and I was seeing like,
okay, well, what are otherphotographers doing?
Like people who look successfulor people who seem like they're
(09:33):
making money, what are theydoing?
I'm going to do that.
And so doing that, chasing that,led me to shooting weddings.
So what was hilarious about thisstory is that I'd been three
years building this brand as amaternity and newborn
photographer.
And then when I launched myselfas a full time photographer, I
launched myself as a weddingphotographer.
(09:53):
I'd never shot a wedding in mylife.
Raymond Hatfield (09:55):
You know, And typically your past clients,
don't need wedding photos.
No! I mean,
Sandra Coan (10:00):
it was just absurd, you know?
But, so I did that.
I shot weddings for a few years.
I hated it.
and I had gotten to the point,so in that time frame, I'd got
married, I had had twins, and Iwas at the point where I was
away from them all the time.
I was working all the time.
I was shooting weddings.
And I just was miserable.
(10:22):
And, and as a consequence, I'dstopped doing this portrait work
that I actually really, reallyloved.
And that's what, what started mywhole journey.
And so I got to the point I'llnever forget.
It was 2007 because my twinswere not quite a year old yet.
And I was like, well, this isridiculous.
If I'm going to keep doing thisand if this is going to be a
sustainable career and I need itto be, my family needs it to be,
(10:44):
I've got to be happy again.
And I decided to completelyrelaunch my business at that
time and rebrand myself as aportrait photographer, go back
to what I loved.
And so I started there, just intime for the great recession.
So
Raymond Hatfield (11:02):
perfect time.
Like perfect
Sandra Coan (11:04):
timing for me with like newborn twins at home.
No big deal.
But then, yeah.
And so I kind of rebranded thenand built, began the, uh, What I
have today so that my studio, Igot a studio.
and I just decided to ignore thetrends, stop looking at what
other people were doing, stopcomparing myself to other
(11:25):
people, and just get really,really clear on my vision, what
I do, my voice as an artist andgoing with that.
And that's also when I reallysat down and decided that I
needed to learn business.
that was probably when I, youknow, I was like eight years
into that point.
And that's probably when I waslike, huh, this is actually a
(11:47):
business.
Maybe I should learn what thatmeans.
And so, right.
I see.
I told you if I can do this,literally anybody can.
But so at that point I startedstudying and learning and I went
outside or into industry andreally just learned the
fundamentals of business andmarketing and branding.
And so I was building myportrait business while I was
(12:10):
studying all of that.
And I think that's what took meto the next level because it was
within like a year, year, twoyears of that where I, I really
broke that six figure mark forthe first time.
And it's just been
Raymond Hatfield (12:23):
going after having been in business for
eight years.
It was that one year of reallyfocusing on business marketing
and branding that really tookyou above that, that six figure.
Wow.
Okay.
So, so you talked a little bitthere about, um, how when you
decided to make the switch backfrom weddings to portraits that
you decided to completely rebrand yourself.
So before we even get into rebranding, let's talk about
(12:45):
branding.
So I reached out, to you, firstof all, to chat about branding
because this is what, this isthe stuff that I'm excited
about.
And when I asked the beautifulpeople of the Beginner
Photography Podcast Facebookgroup what questions they had
about branding, every responsewas exactly the same.
It was, what is branding?
I have no idea even where tostart.
So before we go any further,let's answer that question.
(13:08):
What is branding?
Sandra Coan (13:10):
Well, that's a great question.
And I think it's something thata lot of people confuse, people
oftentimes think that brandingis their logo or their color
palette or the fonts they use ontheir website, or their business
cards, you know, like I will, Ido one on one coaching with
people and I'll sit down withpeople and they're like, Oh, I
just did this big rebrand andit's still not working.
And I'm like, no, you didn't doa rebrand.
(13:31):
You just changed your logo.
Raymond Hatfield (13:34):
No wonder why it's not working.
Sandra Coan (13:35):
That's not a rebrand.
and so I do think that brandingis something that really
confuses people and people don'tknow what it is.
So what branding is your brand?
Is everything yes, it'simportant that you have,
consistent, you know, logo colorpalette font, you know, all that
kind of stuff, but your brandingis you, it is your style.
(13:56):
It is your work.
When you have a really, reallystrong brand, then someone sees
your image come up on theirInstagram feed and they know
right away that that is you,that is a strong brand.
That's what branding is.
it's that consistency in yourwork.
It's that, predictability.
It's, reliable, those sorts ofthings.
(14:17):
So it's a little more esoteric,I think, than, what people tend
to think of it.
As right, it's so much more.
It's your personality.
it's, you know, your clientexperience.
It's, your copy, the word thatyou use when you are your
business voice, on Instagram, onFacebook, on your website, it is
all those things, all those cometogether to create your brand
(14:42):
and who you are.
Does that make sense?
Raymond Hatfield (14:44):
it does, yeah.
And I think, I think what'sinteresting about that is that,
because while you were talking Iwas kind of putting myself back
into where I was when I firststarted and, also assumed that
branding was just like a logoand like a cool tagline or maybe
like a font that you used onyour website.
Yeah.
And I think that it's easy tothink those things because
they're easy to check off of alist.
(15:04):
Whereas everything else is likeconsistent editing style, what
it is that you're posting andthe words that you say on your
website are, a lot harder todefine because it comes from you
personally and not just, well, Ibought this logo off Fiverr and
now I'm ready to go.
Exactly.
So yeah, it's much more
Sandra Coan (15:20):
complicated than that.
And really developing a reallygood brand too.
I think, it requires a certainamount of, Introspection and,
bravery because, like my story,right, when I decided to like
quit weddings, quit doing allthe other things and really
focus on what I was doing, whatI didn't realize I was doing
right then was developing mybrand, coming up with my brand,
(15:45):
working, with, okay, well, whatis it that you do?
Like, yes, maybe you're awedding photographer, but what
is your take on weddingphotography?
What is your style?
What is your point of view?
What is your passion?
How does that come through inyour work?
Maybe you're a portraitphotographer.
I'm a portrait photographer.
I'm a newborn photographer instudio, right?
My work doesn't look likeanybody else's work because it's
(16:06):
my vision.
It's my unique take on it.
That is my brand my passionbehind it helps create that.
But getting to that point, itdoes take some, like I said,
some introspection, some work.
It's about figuring out what itis that you do your unique take
on something, your unique pointof view, and then being brave
(16:29):
enough to do it.
Because there's also risk inthat, right?
It's really scary.
It feels so much safer to lookat what is on trend, what are
other successful photographersdoing, and do that.
But unfortunately, when you dodo that, you just become one of
many, because there's a lot ofphotographers who are coming
that.
You know, or who are doing that.
(16:49):
So if you want that brand thatreally stands out, that is
instantly recognizable thatrequires doing the work to make
sure that you are crystal clearon your point of view, your
unique take, and then you'rebrave enough to put that out.
Raymond Hatfield (17:05):
Okay.
So I'm going to ask you a reallyhard question here.
What is one question that we canask ourselves that forces us to
look inside and come up with ananswer for us to, better
understand our brand or put iton our website.
What is it that we're looking todo after that?
Sandra Coan (17:19):
Well, first of all to get there you have to sit
down and ask yourself.
What is it that you do?
What is it that you do right andyou can't say?
Oh, well, I'm a photographer OrI'm a baby photographer or I'm a
wedding photographer.
No, what is it that you do?
That's a hard question.
Raymond Hatfield (17:37):
Okay, Sandra, what is it that you do?
Sandra Coan (17:40):
What is it that I do?
I am a, studio portraitphotographer who specializes in
film.
That's what I do.
My unique take is that I don'tadhere to the rules of
traditional studio photographyin some ways.
My work is about connection.
(18:00):
It's about soulfulness.
Is that a word?
I don't know.
It is now.
It is now.
That's what I bring.
So yes, I fit inside the box ofstudio photographer or film
photographer, but I bring theseother elements into it that are
uniquely me.
The way I work with my clients,the way I see them, the way they
allow me to see them, how I pullthat out of people, how I can
(18:24):
have a real traditional setup,but still have images that are
modern and fresh.
That's what I bring to it.
That's my brand.
Raymond Hatfield (18:31):
Yeah, I could already tell just from the way
that you described that, thatit, there's just so much more
information there that I nowknow about you and how you work
and what it is that you deliverrather than just saying that
you're a newborn photographer.
So yeah, thank you for giving usmore of a solid understanding
of, of what branding is.
Yeah.
So branding is obviously like,it's a lot of things like we
(18:53):
just talked about.
Is there something thatlisteners can focus on when they
get started in branding.
Sandra Coan (19:02):
Yeah.
Focus on what brings you joy.
Focus on what you love focus onwhat you do You know the thing
that almost killed me and almostkilled my business was me trying
to be like everybody else Butyou know, I've already touched
on and it took me deciding,almost like blinders You like
when they put those blinders onthe horses, yeah, so they can't
look anywhere.
I had to do that for myself.
(19:24):
I had to stop comparing myself.
I had to stop looking at otherpeople and just really just
focus like a laser on what it isthat I love.
What am I naturally drawn to do?
How do I naturally want toshoot?
I think, we all have differentpoint of views.
there's not.
There are no two people on theplanet who can see things the
exact same way.
(19:44):
I mean, that's amazing.
And yet we all try to do whatother people are doing.
if we can just focus on thatunique take and just really,
hone it, create, make it thebest you can possibly make it
just like really build yourunique take and your unique
vision.
(20:05):
I mean, that's where the magicis.
And it's harder to do than itsounds.
I mean, it's easy for me to belike, Oh, follow your bliss and
you'll be great, you know,you'll be great.
Even
Raymond Hatfield (20:13):
me talking to you right now, it's like, I feel
like I've been in business for afew years and I kind of have an
idea of what it is that I do,but I still struggle putting
that down on paper, you know,figure out exactly what that is
and and I know the feeling thatI get when I'm at like a good
wedding and I'm having fun andthe couple's having fun and that
everything goes well But writingit down in a way that I think
communicates what makes meunique is uh, it is difficult.
(20:37):
So understand that
Sandra Coan (20:38):
yeah, there's different ways you can do it in
your brand.
So you, you get that concept,right?
And that should start comingthrough in your work.
Your work should show yourstyle, your point of view, what
you believe in, but it shouldalso be infused with who you are
and your personality.
And then you're right.
Then you write it down, then itstarts to come across in the
copy that you have on yourwebsite and how you describe
your work to your clients andhow all of that should be
(21:01):
working together.
And then yes, then you tie inbeautiful logo and a nice color
palette, and it all starts towork together, right?
Your words, your personality,your image, your point of view,
all those other things, and thatbecomes your brand.
Raymond Hatfield (21:16):
Perfect.
You must see, like, a lot ofother photographers, and their
branding, what it is that eitherthey send to you or just other
websites that you look at.
I don't know if you've still gotthose blinders on and that
you're not looking at anybodyelse, but, there any mistakes
that you see well establishedphotographers making when it
comes to branding themselves.
Sandra Coan (21:35):
Yeah, I fell victim to this, too I mean, I'm human
right and I have taken theblinders off because that's part
of my job You know,
Raymond Hatfield (21:42):
yeah,
Sandra Coan (21:43):
I go around and I'm you know speaking and I'm
teaching and I'm interactingwith people I'm working with
people and I do look at otherpeople's stuff all the time And
I think that the worst thingthat we can do is compare
ourself to other people Compareour work to other people's work.
I do it.
I have a really establishedbrand and kind of a killer
business.
And I still look at otherpeople's work and they're like,
(22:04):
Oh man, so good.
I can be better.
I could do better.
You know, like that kind ofstuff.
And it's good to push yourselfand to be inspired, but I say,
don't, don't fall into thattrap.
There's that great quote wherewhat is it like comparison is
the thief of joy or something.
I'm misquoting it, but I mean,it's so true.
(22:24):
So, you know, Like, hard.
And it's hard when you're anartist and your art is your
business.
Because you're selling a pieceof you.
I mean, that's really vulnerableand really hard and really
scary.
Raymond Hatfield (22:39):
So, when it comes to mistakes that more
established photographers aremaking, are you saying that
maybe they spend too much time,selling themselves?
Sandra Coan (22:48):
No, I think it's important to sell yourself.
I think any photographerestablished or not the mistake
you make is questioningyourself.
Oh, it's questioning what youdo.
Raymond Hatfield (22:57):
I see.
I see Okay, could be a toughone.
That can be a time becausethat's like naturally what we as
humans do yeah, so and as
Sandra Coan (23:08):
artists I mean like I always tell people being in
business is like being intherapy man Because like just by
definition because of what we doI mean it forces you to it like
rub up against all yourinsecurities, it's rough.
Yeah, we're crazy
Raymond Hatfield (23:23):
We're all crazy people and you got you got
some good days that are justlike you're just riding high
It's like amazing and then youhave other days where you just
think you know, what maybe i'dbe happier making 12 at
starbucks
Sandra Coan (23:35):
I mean literally last year week I said to one of
my best friends who's also inthe industry, I was like, God,
maybe I should just quit and bea barista.
Raymond Hatfield (23:43):
You said that to them?
Why?
What was it that you werefeeling at that point?
Sandra Coan (23:46):
I mean, I, I have all the things too.
Like one day you're like, I'mamazing.
This is fantastic.
I've totally got this.
And then, you know, and thenother days I'm like, this is
exhausting.
And I totally blew it.
And I could have done a betterjob.
Well,
Raymond Hatfield (24:03):
we can always do a better job, but it's good
to, you know, give yourself thatfree pass and let yourself go
from time to time.
I want to know, because thereare some photographers who
listen to the podcast whohonestly have no intentions of
going into business.
They have no intentions ofmaking money, but they use
photography just for fun, as ahobby.
(24:23):
Maybe they post photos toInstagram or Facebook.
Should those photographers beworried about branding at all?
Sandra Coan (24:30):
Yeah, I think if you're doing your photography
well and you are being authenticto your voice as an artist
You're building a brand whetheryou realize it or not Cause
really that's, having thoseimages that people are, that are
instantly recognizable as you,that's building a brand.
And, yeah.
So even if, you know, it's notyour intention to go out and
(24:52):
create a business, listen, itwas never my intention to go out
and create a business.
Here I am You never know Butreally it's just about that
consistency and being true toyour voice now another thing I
hear a lot and I'm just throwingthis out there Maybe this
applies to some of your yourlisteners, but I hear from
people who are just starting aswell What if I love doing a lot
(25:14):
of different things, you know?
But if I love shooting weddingsand I love shooting portraits
and I love photographing dogsor, you know, whatever, then
what do I do?
How do I build a consistentbrand that way?
And, what I always say is evenif you are photographing
different things, you still haveyour style that you bring to it.
like I'm sure like just the twoof us, like if I were God forbid
(25:37):
to go in and photograph awedding, I would bring my point
of view, right?
Like my take on that and wewould have a different
experience, you know You can set10 photographers in the same
room all photographing the samething and everybody's image is
going to look different
Raymond Hatfield (25:53):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I don't know if you've seenthat.
Uh canon, don't think it was anad but it was a promotion where
they took I think it was justthat 10 photographers and they
put them in a room with onesubject But each time they told
the photographer that thesubject was something different.
So like Oh yeah, the subject islike this high level CEO.
Go ahead and like, go photographhim.
(26:14):
Next guy was like, this guy'slike an ex inmate, go ahead and
photograph him.
And each photo that came out,was really interesting how you
could just see the, the storythat was being told through the
photographer's perspective.
Oh, wow.
No,
Sandra Coan (26:26):
now I'm going to have to go look that up.
Raymond Hatfield (26:27):
Yeah, I'll have to, I'll have to send you a
link.
I'll have to send you a link.
I think it was on YouTube.
It was from a few years ago, butit's still there.
It's really interesting stuff,and it just kind of rings true
to what it is that you'resaying, is that we each have our
own personal voice.
and, um, We just have to find itand learn how to put it down on
paper, I suppose.
and even if you're not makingmoney, you can still come up
with that voice just, justthrough your images.
So yeah,
Sandra Coan (26:48):
find your voice and then be brave enough to do it.
Raymond Hatfield (26:51):
So that kind of brings me to, my next
question, which is we hear alot.
And in fact, from yourselfincluded, you said that
photographers like to go throughrebrands, right?
Every, like, three or fouryears, we're like, Complete
rebrand! I'm doing this thing.
So, I guess for one, are thosephotographers truly doing a
rebrand?
Or is it that they are justbored of the colors on their
(27:14):
website and that they're lookingfor something new?
Because if our brand is ourvoice, how much are we really
changing through a rebrand?
we need a rebrand?
Sandra Coan (27:24):
Yeah.
I personally think if you'rechanging your website, you're
just changing your website.
That's not a rebrand.
I changed my, I changed mywebsite all the time.
cause I get bored of it and Iget, you know, I want it to be
fresh and, evolved, but my brandis consistent and the same.
Who I am, my work, my point ofview, all of that is consistent,
the same.
And I get a lot of pushback onthis.
(27:45):
I actually have a branding classactually on creative live,
where, I got up and said, infront of like 70, 000 people in
a live view, like, no, yourbrand's not your logo.
And everybody was like, that'stotally like, that is like, that
is a part of it.
You know, absolutely.
It's a part of it, but that isnot it.
Like, it's not enough to say,okay, something in my business
(28:05):
isn't working.
So I'm going to change my logoand somehow that's going to
magically fix the problem.
That's not, that's not therebrand.
If something's not working inyour business, you have a bigger
problem than what your logolooks like, you
Raymond Hatfield (28:18):
know?
Oh, of course.
Yeah, nobody's not booking youbecause your logo is a teal.
Because they're
Sandra Coan (28:22):
like, you know, the color palette just really isn't
speaking to me, so.
Raymond Hatfield (28:27):
Right.
You know, if
Sandra Coan (28:27):
somebody's not working, booking you, then you
are, there's something confusingin your messaging.
Either your work isn'tconsistent or it's all over the
place.
They don't know what they'regoing to get from you.
If you have a really strongbrand, your clients should know
exactly what their images aregoing to look like.
Before they ever see any of it,like one of the things I do in
my business, which people thinkis really weird is, you know,
(28:48):
I'm a film photographer.
So, but the end of a sessionwith me, I haven't even seen the
images.
My clients haven't seen theimages, it's like two weeks
before.
and yet I sit with people at theend of my sessions and we do
their ordering session becausemy people are really busy.
They don't have time to comeback in and people order.
Wall prints and albums and allof that before any of us have
(29:09):
seen their work.
All right.
So why does that work?
Why does that work for me?
Because I have a really strong,consistent brand.
People know what their imagesare going to look like before
they ever walk through the door.
That is branding.
Not your logo and your font,
Raymond Hatfield (29:28):
right?
Yeah, so kind of sub questionthere, are they just kind of
reserving that they will have a8x10 print or that they will
have this?
Because surely there's no waythat they know exactly which,
uh, which photos they wantthere.
Sandra Coan (29:42):
Yeah.
So they say, Hey, yeah, I'mdefinitely going to want the
album.
And, that's what I sell the mostof are my, my fine art albums.
And then it, you know, a lot ofmy people don't even want to
choose the images.
They just let me do it.
Raymond Hatfield (29:53):
Oh, wow.
How great.
How great that must be.
So then we just like put ittogether
Sandra Coan (29:57):
and yeah, it's everybody.
Raymond Hatfield (30:00):
Well then, I kind of want to ask a more
direct question.
You just shared an example ofhow building a strong, um, brand
builds trust How can a strongbrand make photographers more
money?
Sandra Coan (30:14):
Well, that's all that all goes together, right?
Because if you have a strongbrand you have authority it
creates authority it createstrust And it raises your
perceived value.
So people will come in and spendthousands of dollars ordering
product before they've seentheir images, for example,
because you have authoritybecause they already trust you
(30:36):
listen, first of all, peoplewant to do business with people
they know, like and trust,right?
We all know that and you createthat no, like, and trust factor
before people walk through yourdoor, through your branding,
through consistency, throughyour copy.
Through the way you talk aboutwhat you do and how you do it,
all of that kind of stuff.
So everything you, you do,everything that you're doing in
(30:57):
your branding, you are preppingyour people to work with you.
So all of it is work before theyever even get in front of your
camera.
And that does increase your,your value.
And then suddenly people, aren'tsquabbling about pricing or any
of that, right?
Because you are an authority.
The other thing, you know, whenI went back and I was saying,
(31:19):
with the The number one mistakeI see people do is that they,
they chase trends or they try todo what other successful
photographers are doing and howthat hurts you because you
become one of many.
Well, because becoming one ofmany is also, How you hurt your,
your bottom line, because whenyou're one of many, that is when
you're attracting priceshoppers, because if you're just
(31:40):
like everybody else, the onlything they have to compare you
to compare you on is yourpricing and what you're
offering.
Whereas if you have a uniquebrand, if you're something
special, if you're standing out,well, then it becomes a matter
of, no, I want that.
And she or he is the only personwho can give me that, and I want
it, so I'm going to pay whateverI need to pay to get it.
(32:03):
Right?
you know, it's just like afundamental difference
Raymond Hatfield (32:06):
in
Sandra Coan (32:07):
the expectation or even the desire to work with
you.
Raymond Hatfield (32:11):
Okay.
Yeah, no, it does make sense.
I guess I, um, was asking toospecific of a question when
really it's it's not just like,here's branding.
You're done.
Fill this form out.
Here you go.
It does require a lot ofpersonal work that you do gotta
put in.
Yes.
It's like therapy.
It's it's like, it's liketherapy.
It's like therapy.
so yeah, do appreciate thatanswer.
(32:32):
I definitely got something outof it.
and.
I will admit that I asked youthe wrong question there.
It wasn't a very good question,but you handled it with grace
and you answered it very well.
So thank you.
Sandra Coan (32:42):
Well, and I also know like sometimes when I talk
about branding or I talk aboutthese things, it feels a little
bit like I'm talking about likefairies or something, right?
Like it's kind of hard to, it'skind of hard to nail down
because it is so subtle andthere's a lot of nuance.
And like you said, it's not justas easy as, fill this out and
this is, your brand, there's alot of introspection.
(33:04):
There's a lot of, work thattakes some time to figure out.
Raymond Hatfield (33:08):
Well, then speaking of work, is there any
action items that we should bedoing after listening to this
episode that we should be doingto, to get started, cultivating
what our brand is or thinkingabout to start to cultivate what
our brand is?
Sandra Coan (33:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
come back to that question that,I asked at the beginning, like,
what is it that you do?
What is your unique take?
What do you love?
What is that thing that youcould do over and over and over
again, 8, 000 times and neverget sick of it?
really start paying attention tothat and, write it down and
start figuring it out.
(33:41):
and the more intentionally youare about it, then you start to
grow, grow this, like, um, Ican't remember who, somebody
asked me the other day, becauseI have been doing this forever.
And I have a really simple setof, I have a studio, I have, a
white backdrop and I have a graybackdrop, it's like my favorite
thing in the world.
And somebody was like, well,don't you get tired or, or sick
(34:02):
of doing what you're doing andget kind of burnt out after
almost 20 years.
And it's like, no.
I don't like that's because it'ssuch a piece of me, you know,
like I could take a family or alittle baby and put them in
front of a simple whitebackdrop.
With the exact same lighting anddo the exact same thing every
single day for the rest of mylife because I freaking love it
(34:24):
Yeah, like I'm obsessed with it.
I just I can't explain it Itseems silly but it is such a
part of what I do and how much Ilove it and and I believe so
much in the importancePortraiture and getting one
beautiful image from a session,I could go on and on and on.
It is like, that passion isinfused into my brand, into what
I do, into my pictures.
(34:46):
So I can put somebody in frontof a simple gray backdrop, with
one light and I'm photographingthem on my Roloflex or whatever.
And get giddy, like I getexcited to do it every single
time.
Find that.
Raymond Hatfield (35:01):
Is it okay if we don't know what that is right
now?
Sandra Coan (35:03):
It took me eight years before I even started like
before any of this even like waslike, huh, maybe I
Raymond Hatfield (35:11):
should
Sandra Coan (35:12):
And literally before then I was doing all the
things that I just said not todo I photographed weddings I
photographed real estate.
I photographed events andparties dogs.
I had like a whole dog thing.
I don't even like dogs, right?
So just to say, so absolutely,you know, like I said, it's easy
(35:34):
for me to say, you know, followyour bliss.
It's a lot harder to sit downand actually figure out what
your bliss is.
So to get back to your question,like what is an actionable item
that you can be doing?
Start paying attention to that.
Start treating your art as whatit is, which is an extension of
you.
And when you can pull that intoyour business, that's where the
(35:55):
magic happens.
And again, it's scary.
Raymond Hatfield (35:58):
Yeah, no, for sure.
It's funny because, I was reallyexcited to ask you, what are
some of the mistakes that you'vemade with your own branding, so
that we know not to do, but, Ithink you just shared them all
right there.
I've made all the mistakes,friend.
Sandra Coan (36:10):
All the mistakes.
Raymond Hatfield (36:13):
Oh, that's funny.
Yeah, once again, as, assomebody who educates
photographers on branding, youmust hear from those
photographers maybe other advicethat they've heard.
Is there any commonly badinformation that you hear being
taught about branding?
Sandra Coan (36:30):
People, I think get told that there's one thing, one
way to do something.
And that they have to do it thisway to be successful.
And that's not true.
That's my belief anyway.
There's no one way to do it,right?
We're all like special littlerainbows Everybody's a little
different just go with it Soactually just to to talk about
this for a second if I can gooff on another thing like I do I
(36:52):
love them.
Yeah my assistant and I werelaughing yesterday because I was
trying, I was attempting to dolike an Instagram story and I
was showing like a lightingsetup and all this stuff.
And I got stuck inside the softbox and I was tripping over
things and I, like I got tangledin my camera strap and my light
meter strap and all this stuffand, I realized like I do that
(37:14):
all the time.
Like I'm like clumsy, like I'llbe up on stage at a conference
and like, I'll trip oversomething or I'll knock,
something off the podium orwhatever.
That's who I am.
And she was filming all thebehind the scenes, me getting
stuck in the softbox and all thethings.
And then we got done recordingit.
I was like, you didn't postthat.
Did you?
And she's like, yeah, I postedit.
She's like, that's part of yourbrand.
You're kind of a disaster.
(37:38):
Somehow you make it work.
And I'm like, okay, that's partof my brand, I guess.
So
Raymond Hatfield (37:44):
endearing.
Yeah.
Sandra Coan (37:47):
No, it is like, I'd like, I have bruises all over my
legs because I literally runinto things all the time.
That's who I am.
So I think, think the mistakethat people make is thinking
there's one way to do itthinking that you have to be
perfect thinking that you haveto be polished, you know, just
be yourself and if if yourselfgets stuck in a softbox
sometimes, you know
Raymond Hatfield (38:06):
Post it on instagram
Sandra Coan (38:07):
just post it on instagram.
That's who you are.
My lighting's really good It'sjust sometimes I get stuck
inside a softbox.
Raymond Hatfield (38:12):
Well, they can be big softboxes.
I understand it It's really hardIt's hard to set up.
Okay, i'm sure you have one ofthose like eight foot like big
ones that you put right in frontright
Sandra Coan (38:23):
I do.
I have a giant seven foot oneand it's got all the spokes and
it's like wrestling with anoctopus trying to get that thing
up.
It's terrifying.
Raymond Hatfield (38:30):
I've never wrestled with an octopus, but I
can imagine.
I can imagine what it would belike.
That's funny.
Yeah.
there was anything that likeafter all of this, like you're
here today, is there anythingthat if you had to do it all
over again that you would do tochange, to get to where you are
today, but faster?
Sandra Coan (38:48):
Yeah, when I first started taking money from
people, I would have realizedthat the fact that I was taking
money from people in exchangefor photos meant that I was in a
business and I would love tohave gone back and sat down and
started studying business atthat time, you know, instead of
waiting eight years.
(39:10):
running around trying to figureit out.
Like the one thing.
Yeah.
Like
Raymond Hatfield (39:14):
about business that you think is, it's just
like a really good startingfoundation.
Sandra Coan (39:19):
Well, understanding what branding true branding is,
Raymond Hatfield (39:22):
is
Sandra Coan (39:23):
really important.
understanding marketing and whatmarketing is and the concept of,
content marketing and all ofthat.
That's a whole nother podcast.
We could do that.
I could talk about marketing allday because it all goes in
Raymond Hatfield (39:36):
the
Sandra Coan (39:37):
box, right?
Because it's like a three partthing, right?
You have to know what you do.
That's the branding piece.
You have to know who your peopleare and then you have to know
how to communicate what you doto your people.
And that's the marketing piece.
Raymond Hatfield (39:48):
See, if you would ask a lot of the listeners
about marketing, they would say,Oh, it'd be like a Facebook ad
or, something that you put onInstagram or something.
Sandra Coan (39:56):
Yeah, it's much so much more than that.
Raymond Hatfield (39:59):
Once again, you're kind of tying it back to
being more introspective.
And I think you're solidifyingthat idea of therapy to the
list.
Yeah, it is being
Sandra Coan (40:06):
a business.
It's like being, it's likesigning up for lifelong therapy.
Raymond Hatfield (40:11):
No, it's just the truth.
Throughout your whole career asa photographer, want to know
what the best investment thatyou've ever made in, whether it
be in money, time, or energy?
Oh, God, that's a really goodquestion.
I stole it from Tim Ferriss.
So don't don't don't give me thecredit.
Sandra Coan (40:28):
Well, well done, Tim Ferriss.
I think for me, for my work,personally, learning how to use
lighting, I was terrified oflighting for so long.
And I would just like, Telleverybody it was a natural light
photographer.
And I, you know, I was kind ofsmug about it, but really that
was just code for, I actuallydon't know how to use lights and
they terrify me.
and when I just like got overmyself and decided to learn it,
(40:51):
it like changed my life.
So learning that, yeah, reallyworth it.
Raymond Hatfield (40:58):
When was that?
How long ago?
Sandra Coan (41:00):
Probably like seven, eight years ago.
I mean, are you, are younoticing a trend with me by the
way, where I spend like aridiculous amount of time just
trying to figure it out on myown.
And then I'm like, Oh, I guess Ishould actually just like learn
that.
And then it changes my life.
Yeah.
So learn from me, and don'tspend all that time trying to
(41:21):
figure it out on your own.
Don't you wish you could just
Raymond Hatfield (41:23):
like know right now, like, what is it that
I'm not paying attention toright now?
Because that's probably the mostimportant thing.
Yes! Oh my god, yes.
That's funny.
Absolutely.
Well, Sandra, I gotta say,everything that you've shared
today has been very helpful.
I'm sure not only to thelistener, but to me as well,
honestly.
I learned some things.
And I know that I need to goback to my website and maybe do
(41:43):
myself a rebrand and get a newlogo and, uh, no, but, uh,
there's obviously a lot ofquestions that I need to ask
myself, going forward just to,just to work on building a
better brand.
And I know that the listenerspicked up a whole bunch as well.
So thank you so much.
I got one last question for you.
Is there anything that I didn'task you today that you want to
make sure that the listenersknow?
Sandra Coan (42:04):
Yeah, absolutely.
So if you need more help, I havean entire website that I
dedicate just to otherphotographers.
Speaking of branding, I kind ofseparated my brand into two
pieces.
I have Sandra cone photography,which is for my clients.
And now I have Sandra Coaneducation.
com just for photographers.
And I talk about all this stuffall the time because I'm
(42:25):
actually.
Like I said, like strangelypassionate about it.
So there's a lot of greatresources for, photography and
lighting and business and allthose things that you can find
there.
And I'm also co owner of acompany called lady boss
workshops, where we just kind oftake this one step further.
(42:46):
It's myself and my businesspartner, Elena S Blair.
And we again, we teach aboutmarketing and business and all
these things together and youknow, it's primarily that part
of it is primarily focused for,female photographers because
this is still a really maledominated industry and we want
to see more women beingempowered to create killer
(43:07):
businesses that they love andthat are profitable.
However, that said, we have alot of what we call bro togs in
the group too, our man and theyare, of course, always welcome.
Raymond Hatfield (43:20):
That's funny.
I was just imagining, like thatmovie, the little rascals from
like the nineties or whatever,how they had their, their no
girls allowed club, uh, the heman woman haters or something
like that would never fly in amovie today if you were to write
Sandra Coan (43:34):
that down.
Raymond Hatfield (43:36):
That's funny.
Well, again, Sandra, though,thank you so much for coming on
the podcast.
Alright, this week's actionitem.
Meaning if you implement justone thing in your photography
this week, let it be this onebecause it will inevitably move
the needle forward in your work.
It is this, write down threethings that you absolutely love
(43:58):
to photograph.
Photography is a mirror,remember, so when we define what
it is that we love to shoot,we're also kind of defining
ourselves.
So grab a pen, a paper and set afive minute timer and write out
everything that you love aboutphotography from the types of
sessions to style to, uh, typesof moment, format and medium,
(44:21):
like how dangerous shoots onfilm.
Or even just write down thetypes of subjects that you like
to photograph.
I mean, write down anything andeverything that just brings you
joy when it comes tophotography.
When your timer goes off, thengo ahead and take that list of
everything that you wrote downand try to narrow that down to
just three things, your topthree things, and now use that
(44:46):
list of the top three thingsthat you love most about
photography and create a roadmapfor the types of projects that
you want to shoot or the type ofclients that you want to
attract.
This right here is thefoundation for your brand and
when you're done, I would loveto hear'em.
(45:07):
So feel free to share your threethings that you love most about
photography in the BeginnerPhotography podcast community.
It is free and it is the safestplace on the internet for new
photographers like yourself,which you can join myself and
more than 6,000 other listenersby heading over to beginner
photo pod.com/group.
(45:30):
Again, that's beginner photo podslash group.
We'd love to have you.
All right, that's it for today.
Until next week, remember, themore that you shoot today, the
better of a photographer youwill be tomorrow.
Talk soon.
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