June 2, 2025 • 48 mins
What do you do when love starts to feel like war? In Part 3 of this candid marriage conversation, Pastor Mike and Pastor Julie dive deep into the unspoken dynamics between men and women—and why we so often miss each other’s needs.
You’ll hear personal stories, lessons from 20+ years of marriage, and biblical insight on how to become allies instead of opponents in your relationship. From miscommunication and unmet expectations to emotional safety and healing deep wounds, this episode is for anyone fighting to stay connected in the middle of real-life pressure.
- Why women want to be heard—and men want peace
- How fixing your spouse’s problems might be breaking their trust
- The danger of performance-based love
- Vulnerability, father wounds, and learning to truly listen
- How to become a safe place for each other again
Marriage isn’t about finding someone who completes you—it’s about choosing each other daily and learning how to heal together.
📲 Get equipped for your relationship journey at www.mikesignorelli.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:33):
Okay, welcome to our podcaston what men and women really Want.
We are in episode three, andhopefully you got your spouse with
you, or if you're single,you're just holding space for them
like this.
Just weeping right now, justwaiting in the seat, waiting for
your Boaz.
But my name is MikeSignorelli, and this is my beautiful
wife, Julie, and we are herein New York City, and today we're
(00:55):
going to talk about what menand women really want.
Men really want peace and solutions.
Okay.
And women really want to beheard and want to.
Want to be understood.
Okay?
Now, if you didn't pick up onit, these are two seemingly opposed
ideas.
Yes.
Right.
Yes.
So we're going to delve intothat, and I want you guys to stay
(01:17):
through the entire duration ofthis podcast because there's so many
testimonies coming in abouthow this podcast is helping to heal
relationships, restore relationships.
Like, people are getting theirfire back.
They're rekindling.
There's people who are singlewho are, like, literally being prepared
for marriage as a result ofthis as well.
So shout out to all the single folks.
(01:39):
All right, so here's the thingthat's weird.
Yeah.
As a leader who leads multipleentities, we have a charity where
we do disaster relief andprovide food to people in different
regions.
We have the church.
I have Mike Signorelli Ministries.
Like, there's a lot of.
I'm a filmmaker.
(02:00):
I have a movie that was intheaters, which, by the way, Domin
Revival is online now.
You can watch it, you know, atAmazon and these different places.
My point is, I lead a lot of people.
I have a lot of staff members,and I actually get celebrated for
my ability to solve problems.
(02:20):
You know where I'm going.
I know where I'm going.
Go ahead.
I solve problems for a living,and I get celebrated for that.
Like, people seek me out.
Like, I.
I have a.
I also have an association ofchurches called Movement, where lead
pastors from all over the andeven other countries are like, help
me solve my problems.
So imagine what happens when Icome into my own home and you are
(02:44):
my kryptonite, because youdon't want me to solve your problems.
You don't want me to give you solutions.
You don't want to give me a.
You don't want me to give youa plan.
You just want me to listenbecause you need to be heard and
understood.
So on behalf of all of the menin existence, I just want to tell
you a couple things.
Men.
And then I want to hear fromyou because we're going to, you're
going to give up the playbook?
(03:05):
Going to try from the women.
I'm going to try.
If you think men, that makingmore money is going to cause you
to be respected more in yourown home.
Get that idea out of your head.
If you think that having staffmembers and multiple companies and
different thing, like, if youthink that there's some sort of status.
Because when I first gotmarried to you, we had nothing.
(03:27):
No money, nothing.
And we were in survival modeand I was grinding out, working blue
collar jobs, building houses,doing construction, driving trucks.
I did all that, right?
Oh, yeah.
Then in my mind I would think,one day, one day I'm gonna earn the
right to be able to solve mywife's problems and be respected
(03:49):
by my wife.
And here I am 20 years laterand you still don't want me to solve
your problems.
I still do not, no matter what.
I accomplish in my life.
So what that's telling me, andthis sounds basic to some of you,
this is just where we're starting.
But this is not basic becausethere are men who are like, oh, if
I made more money, it, if Ithis, if I that.
(04:10):
It's like I'm telling you,like I've done all the things and
that's actually not the case.
Right, right.
So what is going on in the female.
My brain.
In my brain.
Okay, So I.
Okay.
Early in our marriage, youjust, I would be talking to you and
you'd be like, yeah, all yougot to do is this, this, this, this,
(04:31):
talk to them here, do this, whatever.
I write it out for you.
In fact, here's a funny storyI don't think I've ever told publicly.
Oh no.
How old was I?
23.
We were newly married.
So was that.
I was having problems.
I was having problems at work.
(04:51):
And you called my boss to fix it.
No, you know what?
That's, that's off topicbecause I set that dude correct.
I almost showed up to work andfixed the problem.
It was a man and a woman andyou talked to both of them.
And so I go into my boss's office.
No, this is, I'm going somewhere.
I feel like the people aregoing to be with me on this.
(05:13):
Honest to God, I totallyforgot this even happened until we
were.
Until I was listening to youtalk in this opener.
Cuz again, we have no notesand I had no warning we were doing
this.
No notes.
So.
Oh yeah, go ahead.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So this is totally authentic.
Okay.
That's just a dog.
(05:36):
This is real.
This is Real life.
This is real life because we.
You're in our living roomright now, and our dog is.
Was just dragged past usheaving, and my daughter exclaimed
that he has to poop reallybad, so we have no iPads.
Okay.
All right.
No, this is good.
We're leaving it in.
Yeah, we're leaving all thisin because we're.
(05:56):
I said I want to do this authentic.
Yeah.
You know, because what happensis people to put, oh, I need a theologian.
Homie, you need to learn howto love your wife.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like, okay, so back to my work story.
This is just.
Of course we're going to getinto the scriptures, and we've done
that in every episode.
But this is also, like, I wantreal authentic.
Yeah.
And the real authentic is our dog.
(06:17):
Dry heaving in the backgroundand pooping simultaneously.
All right, so back to my story.
So I was having issues at work.
I came home talking about itfor a few weeks and.
Weeks.
Weeks.
Stop justifying it.
Come on, man.
And so my lovely husband callsmy place of employment and talks
(06:39):
to both my bosses star, oh,this stupid dog.
Okay, you know what?
I spent two episodes singinghow much I hate this dog.
Now you understand.
Matter of fact, this is vindication.
Yeah.
Look at him.
Just leave him.
He's good.
Here, get him out of here.
Oh, okay.
He's got it.
(06:59):
I can't concentrate.
This dog.
Look at this dog.
He loves me.
He loves me.
All right, don't let himunplug anything.
Oh, my God.
Just let him out the front.
Just let him out the front.
Just.
You gotta clean it up.
Okay, okay.
So for weeks, you're tellingme about the female boss and the
male boss.
(07:20):
Yes.
And all the things that they're.
They're doing wrong and howit's affecting you.
Yes.
And how it's.
And how it's making.
Making your life harder.
Yeah.
And you call them.
So no, wait, wait.
So I go to lunch and I comeback and they were like, hey, so
the boss wants to speak with you.
Which I'm, like, always agreat employee.
(07:40):
Like, I'm a joy to work with.
And so I've never had.
I, like, never had that before.
So it was my first job out of college.
So I go and I sit down andthey were like, so your husband called
us today.
And bottom line is, and Ithink this actually ties in so perfectly
(08:02):
because again, I totallyforgot this even happened, is I didn't
want you to fix my problem.
And I was so mad.
I didn't think, like, oh, hecares about Me.
He loves me.
He, you know, and granted, Iwas pregnant, so there was a lot
of factors that made it, youknow, like where you felt like there
was possibly safety concernsand it wasn't like he just went above
(08:25):
him.
I want to make it clear.
I took care of my own.
Yeah, but they were like.
So we talked.
So we met your husband.
We talked to your husband.
And I was like, so mortified.
I was mad at him.
I was not happy.
And I didn't respect.
Get out of here.
He needs a scratches.
(08:45):
I didn't respect him.
I didn't respect you more.
I was so mad.
(10:12):
And I was like, why the heckwould you fix my problem?
Like, all I wanted to do istalk about my problem.
And I feel like a lot of men,they just don't want to take the
time to listen to their wife.
See what I said about this dogloves me.
Here, you gotta go, buddy.
So here, I'll get the dog out.
(10:32):
Maybe you.
Star, listen, listen, Star,you're gonna get fixed.
Look, he's licking all over meafter your dry heaving son.
Did he go?
All right, Go upstairs.
Go upstairs.
Oh, now look, he listens.
He listens to me.
He does.
Okay, but let me break it downfrom my perspective now.
(10:54):
Go ahead.
So.
Because the men watching aregoing to get my back and even some
of the women.
So I have a pregnant wife.
Yeah.
And they're making you do allkinds of work that a pregnant woman
shouldn't do.
And you had a people pleasing complex.
Yes.
And you are not sticking upfor yourself.
Now, first of all, in myopinion, because I'm old school,
(11:16):
I thought like, how dare youeven ask a pregnant woman to do this
stuff?
Especially advanced pregnancy.
Yeah.
And so if you're stupid enoughto even have a pregnant woman doing
this stuff, you're gonna get sunned.
That's what we call it.
You're gonna get a phone call.
And I literally, I mean, I kidyou not, because you complained to
me for like three weeks.
So imagine I have a pregnantwoman who's coming to me saying,
(11:38):
they're making me do this andthey're making me do that.
And the whole time you'retalking this thing and I'm, I'm thinking
myself, they're going toeither figure it out or I'm gonna
help them figure it out.
And you did.
The call was the warning.
Just to be clear, we resolvedit in one phone call.
So there was.
What happened was.
I'll never forget.
I made.
(11:58):
I called and I said, hey, hey,how are you doing?
Can I talk to whatever hername was Sherry or something.
And I said, you know, can Italk to so and so.
And they're like who is this?
I said this is Mike Signorelli.
And they're like are you a customer?
I was like no, I'm the husbandof Julie Signorelli and we need to
talk immediately.
And so all of a sudden thiswoman comes on.
(12:19):
I'm like listen, I'm going tomake this very, very clear.
We're going to talk and thenI'm going to talk to Brad after you.
So you might as well.
Whatever that guy's name was,you were close.
Don't say his name.
You know, Brad.
Now this is 20 years ago bythe way, this story.
And I said then we're going totalk to Brad together.
And I just laid it down.
I said she's pregnant.
And.
(12:39):
And pregnant women don't dothese jobs like this.
And you need to find one ofthose other guys to do it.
And you know, she can find something.
And I just basically ownedyour workplace.
And then Brad got on the phoneand said listen Brad, this is Mike.
And no, this.
I feel like his Internet namebut man, it's freakishly close.
Okay.
But I remember like I.
(12:59):
That I could have got introuble because.
And I don't recommend this andI'm not glorifying but I did threaten
him.
I.
I did say.
I said I got that.
I got that sense when I walked in.
But I said Brad, I'm going totell you this.
I said I talked to you.
I talked to Sherry a littlenicer than I'm going to talk to you.
I said Brad, if.
If I find out that my wife hasdone A, B and C, I'm not going to
(13:22):
reveal what the work was.
Yeah.
Because I keep the.
I deemed it some.
You have your pregnant wife do.
I said I'm going to come toyour job and I'm going to break your
face.
Like that's what I told Brad,don't do that.
And I.
And I said, and I said that it's.
It' as simple as that like you.
And I said I don't know ifanybody ever told you but pregnant
women are a unique populationthat have to have you considerations
(13:47):
and you need to make someaccommodations because that's fair.
And.
And I will say I was treatedvery nicely from that moment on with
a lot of accommodations andcare and.
Receive that to me is a lot treatment.
Yeah.
That was like you accidentallyme because I solved your problem
(14:09):
for real.
Cuz women miscarry Doingmanual labor and stuff like that.
It actually.
I mean, truthfully, like,we're laughing about it, but it actually
could have, like, compromisedour child.
But Bella's great.
She's doing well.
She's great.
But to.
To help you.
Yeah.
I do feel like that thereneeds to be a counterbalance of knowing
when.
Okay.
(14:30):
Because I get stuck in thatmode and I'm just like.
My way of relieving stress issolving problems.
Yeah.
So I'm confrontational becauseconflict delayed as conflict multiplied.
Yeah.
So a lot of times I'm like,no, no, this is going to get worse.
I need to do something now.
And one of the things about,like, high capacity leaders is you'll
notice they're very impulse driven.
(14:51):
Because they're like.
Because that's how I relieve stress.
Right, Right.
But then doing that for youall the time actually increases stress
increase.
And that's.
I want to help you.
Yeah.
You're partially right.
Yeah.
It didn't.
It didn't increase intimacy emotionally.
It actually made me afraid totell you things because I thought
(15:11):
I was gonna physically.
But.
But not even that.
I mean, things like, you know,let's say I'm having like a conflict
with somebody.
You know, I'm thinking likeyears ago.
Yeah.
You know, you would be like,well, what you gotta do is, blah,
blah.
And I'm like, okay.
But that's not really what Iwant to talk about.
What I really want to talkabout is how it's affecting.
(15:32):
Affecting me and what.
You know what I mean?
So.
Or maybe it's a.
A problem, you know,physically, or whatever it is.
It's like you just constantlywent into fix it mode.
And so what that did was itmade me shut down.
It made me shut down.
Maybe it doesn't foreverybody, but that's how I felt.
Yeah.
And.
And I think that I failed inthat way because.
(15:53):
And this is my frustration is that.
I'm like, hey, man, Brad'sdoing great.
I'm willing to break Brad'sface for you.
Where's my respect, girl?
And.
But then when I applied thatway of thinking to every situation,
it becomes counterintuitivebecause before I went into fix it
mode, you trusted me with yourproblems, and then now you don't.
(16:16):
But I think the compromise is like.
And I.
If I could say this to the women.
Sure.
The compromise is if you neverwant him to fix anything, you are
emasculating him.
Right.
That was exactly what I wasgoing to say.
But then on the other end ofthe spectrum, you know, to the Men,
if you always feel like youneed to fix it, you're probably failing
in.
(16:36):
And that's why I thinksometimes the women have these great
friendships with other women.
Because I used to listen toyou and your best friend on the phone,
and it was so annoying to mebecause I would be like, that was
the most worthless compliment.
We talked about this.
They would talk.
They talk on the phone for anhour, and they'd hang up, okay, I
feel so much better.
And I'd be like, that was themost worthless conversation I've
(16:57):
ever heard in my life.
You didn't offer one idea, one solution.
Nothing changed.
But you vented.
And that, to me, is two womenventing to each other is more valuable
than a man actually fixing it.
And that broke my brain.
Yeah.
And so I had to just be like,okay, but here's the thing.
I can't be mad at you forgoing to your girlfriends when I've
(17:20):
created a relationship whereyou can never vent.
Right.
Right.
So sometimes.
And I mean.
Or the safety of theinformation, it's like, yeah, sometimes
I just need to know, like, itstays between us.
Well, you know, don't becomplaining around me, because you're
all having a meeting.
And they're like, who is this?
I'm from corporate.
(17:40):
We're gonna have a talk.
Sherry, sit your butt down.
And the funny thing is, I was23 years old doing this.
Like, that's kind of unhinged.
But.
Yeah, but my.
What I was going to say,though, to vindicate you is, you
know, in the early days, whenI learned this concept, and first
of all, I had to ask you, so,like, hey, Julie, you know, like,
(18:03):
what's going on?
Is everything okay?
And, like, literally let you dump.
Yeah.
And then.
And the thing that was crazyabout is, like, I would be sweating
bullets.
Oh, you would see me sweating?
No, like, shaking.
You guys think we're joking.
Like, we're not joking.
He'd be listening.
And, I mean, there would bebeads, like, pulling, like, down
(18:24):
his face.
And I'm like, oh, my gosh,this is so intense.
And then he would be like, mm.
Well, because she's telling meabout this family member did this.
This person did this.
And to me, my brain is going amillion miles a minute, and I'm like,
I'm about to go beast mode.
I remember one time I wastalking about something, and you
(18:46):
didn't offer any solutions,and I was like, what?
What are you going to say?
And you're like, the onlything I can respond with is out how
to fix it were like, do youwant to hear it?
I was like, oh, heck, yeah.
And you were like, like, bringup the whiteboard.
Like, get it all.
No, no, he didn't do that.
(19:07):
But I was, like, offended whenyou didn't, so it's like sometimes
you could wish, like, I.
I wish my husband would neverfix a problem.
It's like, okay, but thendelete that out.
Sometimes your husband justwants to be heard.
Because what I realized is inyou trying to fix it, you were dealing
with.
With your own emotions of howit affected me.
(19:29):
Does that make sense?
So, like, it.
Even if I didn't take youradvice, you getting it out was simply
you dealing with now thiswhole new set of emotions that you
didn't have 20 minutes ago,but do now.
Because I.
I told you about how I washurt or frustrated or whatever, and
it's like, I feel the same way.
(19:51):
It's like when you come to mewith someone's, you know, like a
conflict or inner something interpersonal.
It's like they're talkingabout you like that.
Like, you know, like, it.
Now I have something I have todeal with.
So what I've learned is, like,you processing that has much more
to do with your emotions aboutthe situation than it does about
(20:14):
if I take your advice or not.
Yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, there's a lot of womenwho are content with their husband
fixing their furnace, but notfixing their problems.
Right.
And sometimes that can beconfusing to a man.
So it's like, you want me tofix your flat tire, but I can't talk
about this, and then it can,you know, so it's a compromise, I
think, you know, and you'vegot to find.
(20:34):
So I would say, like, to.
To the men, you know, it'slike, just try to listen.
Don't call their boss.
There's a.
Well, yeah.
Yeah, well.
Or call your.
Call their boss when they needto get a phone call.
Don't call Brad.
Brad's for good.
He's fine.
Well, you know, and I've hadto learn all that in the nuance to
it.
When do you do it?
(20:54):
When do you not?
Right.
But I think at the same time with.
With all this, like, marriagestuff is it's about trust, you know,
and so.
And learning each other.
Because there are times whereyou come to me saying, I actually
need you to fix this.
Oh.
And I would say, like, overtime before, I never wanted you to
(21:15):
fix anything for, like, years.
And then I was like, no, thisman got me.
Like, he's got my back.
He's looking out for me.
Like we're.
We're thick, you know, and soit's like, now it's implied.
Like, if I'm coming to you, Iwant your advice, you know?
Yeah, but that's trust.
That was.
(21:36):
But sometimes that was builtwith trust.
Yeah.
You know, sometimes we justverbally process.
You did that the other day.
You were like, hey, I need toget these feelings out.
I don't care.
You.
Not like you didn't care whatI thought, but, like, you didn't
want me to make you.
You didn't want me to try tomake you feel better.
You were like, I just need toget this out.
(21:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that.
And I was, like, just sittingthere because everything in me wanted
to start encouraging and.
Yeah.
You know.
Yeah.
I go through, like, a lot ofcomplex emotions, and I think a big
myth is that men don't haveemotions or men don't feel, you know,
feelings.
Matter of fact, I always saywhen I'm preaching about gossip,
(22:18):
everybody assumes I'm talkingabout women and I'm actually talking
about men because men tend tobe the biggest gossipers in any church.
And it's funny to me becausemen are incredibly emotional, and
they.
What happens is they findlittle, like, pockets of friendships
where they can deal with their emotions.
And.
And so when you.
It doesn't necessarily meanthat they're effeminate, but what
(22:40):
it means is that men.
The perception of men is theydon't have feelings or emotions.
The reality is they have bigfeelings and big emot.
And.
And I even think that sportssometimes becomes a.
A socially acceptable place toallow big emotions out.
Do you think that, like.
(23:01):
Let's just talk about that fora minute.
So men who have issues withgossiping, it could be that their
wife doesn't feel safe enoughfor them to talk to.
Oh, absolutely.
You know, and so maybe wives,that's a challenge for us.
Like, maybe we need to belistening and not try to correct
them.
Not be their mom when they'retalking to us.
(23:22):
Be their confident, be theirlover, be their listening ear, you
know, for when you do have big emotions.
I know for me in the car theother day, I mean, I felt like you.
I was sweating.
I'm like, I have so manyscriptures to help you.
And.
But that's not.
You didn't want that.
You wanted just to talk, just to.
Download it and be like, hey, because.
(23:43):
Yeah, I mean, I experience alot of.
You know, And.
And the other thing, too, isI'm pioneering.
I'M pastoring a lot of people.
I'm leading a lot of pastorsover our locations.
I care deeply about our men'sministry, our women's ministry, our
kids ministry, our youthministry, and I carry the burden
of all of those generations ofour church.
(24:04):
I.
I carry the burden of thegenders, the male and the female.
There's only two.
I carry the burden of who, youknow, dealing with social issues.
Because people look to me now.
I mean, I get millions ofviews on videos when I talk about
things, because people aresaying, I don't know if I trust the
news media, but I trust PastorMike, even if he doesn't know all
(24:25):
of the details.
He's a godly man.
He's a man of the word, so youcarry all that.
And the other day I was justlike, hey, you know, this is what
I'm processing.
It's weird to get hundreds ofmessages from people saying, would
you go live and talk aboutthis thing or that thing?
And you're pulled in every direction.
And I was like, I just need tofigure this out because I want to
be the best, you know.
(24:46):
But, like.
And so I think even forproblem solvers, there's going to
be problems you can't solve,you know, and we have this phrase
that we use in leadershipwhere we say, that's attention to
be managed, not a problem tobe solved.
So, for example, like, I'm notgoing to quit the church.
You know, like, I'm not goingto quit the church.
I'm not going to quit my marriage.
(25:07):
I'm not.
This is not a problem to be solved.
Like, this is attention to me manage.
And as a man, I have to dealwith being so many roles.
You know, men wear a lot of hats.
And so it was like me goingthrough that.
And I think a lot of times,like, even for men, it's funny because
they'll get together withother men and have conversations,
and they, they.
(25:28):
They will say things to menthat they know will be agreed with,
and they'll agree with eachother or they won't judge.
So a lot of times, like, malerelationships will be like, oh, yeah,
bro, I'm here for you.
Like, oh, yeah, bro, that, youknow, like, it's.
There's a weird loyalty theyhave now.
Some of that can becomedemonic and toxic because what a
male friendship should be isan accountability circle.
(25:51):
But a lot of times it becomesa gossip circle because it's like,
what happens is your wifetells you this is the other side
because you just talked about,we need a Listener, Amanda.
But the other side issometimes the wife is the only accountability
the husband has, because thehusband goes into the friend circles
and goes into an echo chamberwhere they all agree with him, and
(26:12):
instead of holding himaccountable, and so sometimes you
got to watch that.
So I would say to the menright now, like, sometimes your wife
is right, and you startedtelling her stuff and you didn't
like what she said back, andyou started yelling and getting mad.
But your friends are not evengood friends to you because they
didn't hold you accountable toGod's word and the truth.
(26:33):
And.
But your wife did.
But I'll.
I'll.
I'll counterbalance a littlebit with that, because sometimes
women can be very hard on men.
Oh, absolutely.
And when they do, you know, if.
If a man struggles with prideand then they do become vulnerable
enough to share something ontheir heart that they're struggling
with.
When we come at you with,yeah, I told you that was gonna happen.
(26:56):
It's like, all that trust,that thing that.
That vulnerability that tookhim so much to bring the guard down,
it's like, was met with I toldyou so.
Yeah.
You know, and it's like, aswomen, I'm really challenging you
to be a safe place for yourhusband when he is vulnerable.
(27:19):
Don't try to fix it eitherwith I told you so, or trying to
be their mom or trying to be,you know, somebody who's like, oh,
this is a vulnerability.
I'm gonna take my jab.
Yeah, that's exactly what you get.
You got a temper or whatever.
It.
You know, whatever.
I'm just kind of filling inthe blank.
It's like, you've.
(27:39):
If don't ever elevate yourneed for vindication above their
need for vulnerability.
Right.
So it's like, oh, I told you so.
The.
Your need for vindication justsuperseded their need for vulnerability.
So sometimes it's not I toldyou so.
Sometimes it's like, I'm justgoing to let you tell me how you
feel and let.
(28:00):
Let you process this, becauseI know.
A lot of women were probablylistening to you being like, yeah,
get them, Pastor Mike.
But, like, I'm listening toyou, and I'm like, no, ladies, take
a seat.
Like, you have something tolearn here.
Yeah.
Because I always think people default.
Like, oh, yeah, the.
Is the best communicator.
It's like, not always the case.
You know, sometimes we can useour communication to really stab.
(28:24):
Oh, yeah.
And something.
I did that.
Oh, yeah.
I've got stab wounds all over me.
Watch it.
Oh, you could go ahead, but.
But I mean, here's the thing.
You know, maybe we'll kind oflike wind down here, but.
But I'm going to save the mic drop.
Like, we're going to go forthe grand finale right now, but I
need you to tap the subscribebutton and this is a four part series
(28:48):
and I want you to binge watchall four of them.
And by the way, if you are inone night, you probably cried, you
probably laughed, and this ishelping you so much.
So go ahead and just tap thesubscribe button right now and join
the channel and.
Okay, so here's what I wantedto say.
You know, talking aboutvindication versus vulnerability
(29:10):
because your marriage shouldbe the place where you're the most
vulnerable.
And oftentimes it feels like the.
The place where you could bethe least vulnerable.
And, you know, we had aconversation in Brazil that was one
of.
I mean, yeah, we.
So what happened was some dearmembers of our church that have been
with us from the beginning.
Yeah.
And they've never left.
(29:31):
They've.
They've stayed faithful.
They've.
You know, they, they're just agood family, like great Christian
family.
Great, great.
So essentially they were doing their.
A big wedding ceremony.
I don't know how to put it,but they were, they were basically
going to Brazil to be like,hey, they're renewing their vow.
Yeah, they're renewing our vow.
(29:51):
We never had the ceremony thatwe wanted, but we're gonna do the
one we always wanted in Brazilwhere, Where the, where the bride
is from.
And we want you guys to be the efficient.
And for us, that was a bigsacrifice to like go all the way
out there.
But we just love this couple.
And they've been so faithfulto our house.
And I was like, julie, we.
I want to be faithful to their house.
(30:12):
You know what I mean?
They've.
They've served V1.
We want to serve them.
Let's go.
Let's do this thing.
(31:22):
So we go to Brazil and youknow, and I was like, you know what?
Let's take some time for us,you know, and man, we had a conversation
at breakfast, which I'm notgoing to divulge.
Yeah, please don't, because that's.
But it was like, like youunfiltered told me the secrets of
your heart.
(31:42):
And these are things thatwives don't tell their husband.
They go to the grave with thisinformation, literally.
And then that caused me tounlock the secrets of my heart.
And I realized in that momentthat we are the same person.
And it was like, whoa.
We both struggle with the same things.
(32:04):
We both worry about the same things.
And in God's divine wisdom, hebrought us together.
Yeah.
And our.
Our greatest ally was each other.
Our greatest support was each other.
And that conversation, I mean,we literally cried over our breakfast
together.
And that.
And I.
That was one of those momentswhere I was like, you know, independent
(32:28):
of kids, independent of ministry.
You know, because before allof that, there was Mike and Julie,
and it had.
Our stuff.
Had nothing to do with ministry.
Nothing to do with ministry.
Nothing.
Have.
But I'm saying, like, we builtour life.
Right.
But the foundation.
Yeah.
Is just me and you.
And.
And it's like we went back tothat place and I was like, wow.
(32:49):
You know, because kids are atemporary assignment.
Yes.
They grow up, they leave thehome, they get married, you know,
the church.
I'm not always going to be thelead pastor of V1 Church.
I'm just the founding, firstlead pastor there.
You know, if the Lord tarries,there will be generations, like presidents.
You know, it's like you have.
I'm just George Washington ofthis thing.
I'm the founding father.
(33:10):
That doesn't mean I'm the only father.
And so those are all.
What does that mean?
Those are temporary assignments.
But the vows that we made werefor death do us part, which means
the way you get out of acovenant is dying.
And that is.
That's heavy.
And so I felt like when wewere in Brazil, we went back into
(33:31):
that foundation where it waslike, yeah, like, we.
This really works because we.
Ve.
We very much God.
God knew what he was doing outof billions of people, and we chose.
Right.
Yeah.
And the reason why I thinkit's important to say that is because
I feel like that conversationwas earned.
(33:52):
I was just thinking that itwas 20 years of trust.
Building trust, you know?
Yeah.
Those.
And I.
I think those are like treasures.
Yeah.
You know, when it's like 20years and you.
We.
We earned.
It was like, oh, this is a lotof mistakes.
(34:13):
Oh, yeah.
I mean, I.
I can't tell you how manytimes I broke your heart, misplaced
your trust, you know, took mycheap shots where I could.
When you came to me withsomething vulnerable.
I mean, more times than I careto remember.
Yeah.
(34:33):
I keep thinking about thisstory of when you and my brother
Maddie, redid my office in Valparaiso.
Yeah.
Because.
And, you know, you painted.
Didn't you paint the walls,like, green or something?
You know what?
It was during that era whereall the design shows were designing
a Room in one day.
And I thought, I could do that.
I cannot do that, by the way.
(34:54):
But me and your brother.
Yeah.
Yeah.
In a day.
Yeah.
While you were painted, youknow, everything.
And I remember coming home,and that just made me feel so special
because it made me feel like,man, my wife really loves me.
She really wants to createthis space because, you know me,
like, my whole thing is my worlds.
Everybody who really knows meis the world within the world.
(35:15):
I say that phrase, it's aworld within a world.
Like, that concept to me.
And I've always been like, Imake spaces.
Our house has all these little spaces.
Yeah.
Little.
Like, little worlds.
And they're so distinct.
And I had a guest over todayand a good friend of mine, Lee Cummings,
actually.
And you guys could watch that podcast.
(35:36):
But, you know, when I wasgiving him a tour of our house, it
really is.
Oh, I said, we do this over here.
We do that.
It's these little worlds.
And you had invested in myworld, you know, like, you helped
me create my world.
I think a healthy marriage isrenovating each other's worlds, where
it's like, I think I know whatJulie likes, and I'm gonna help her
(36:01):
renovate her world.
Like, I'm gonna.
I'm gonna help her flip this.
You know, like, it's like, Ihad some furniture in my office that
was old, and you painted it,and you made it look new.
Remember that?
So I think it's like, when youcome into a healthy marriage, you
bring furniture and.
And you bring your stuff.
You know, I'm talking metaphorically.
(36:21):
And then what happens is,like, if you're a good spouse, you
renovate it.
You know, when you're like,oh, hey, look, let me show you what
I can do with that dresser.
Like, let me show what I cando with that trauma.
Let me show what I can do withthat pain.
Let me show what I can do with that.
And it's like, you're flippingeach other's trauma.
You're flipping each other'spain, and you're renovating each
other's lives.
(36:42):
And.
But.
But.
And I.
And the reason why I say thatis because you're.
That you don't rent.
It's like, I didn't renovatemy own office.
You did it for me.
And then I remember.
And then obviously I did itfor you here in this house.
You renovated way more roomsfor me.
Yeah, I got one, though.
Yeah.
(37:02):
So it's like, what would yourmarriage look like if you let your
spouse renovate your pain?
What would You.
What if you unlock the door,let him into the hidden room, and
said, here's all my old furniture.
Here's all my trauma.
And I'm gonna let you.
I'm gonna go.
I'm gonna let you paint it.
I'm gonna let you change.
I'm gonna let you.
Let's see what you'll do with it.
(37:22):
Like, what if we thought aboutour secrets as furniture to be renovated?
Like, what if we.
You know.
And I think for me and you,it's like that.
That, to me, has been one ofthe greatest joys.
Like, when your father died, that.
That was a gravitational forcethat pulled us together in a closeness
(37:46):
we never experienced, becauseit was like your whole life you had
a father, and the first dayyou were fatherless was the first
day you understood aspects of me.
Oh, yeah.
That you had never.
Yes, absolutely.
It was like.
And I remember you looking atme, and it was like you were looking
at me through the eyes ofpain, and you were saying, you felt
(38:09):
this.
This is what you felt.
I'm never gonna get a hugagain from Randy.
No one's ever gonna call me onthe phone.
And I remember you would,like, slow down, and you would look
at me with these eyes, and itwas like something was.
The wheels were turning, andyou were like, this is the brokenness.
This is why you couldn't enjoy Christmas.
(38:30):
I was.
Was.
I was understanding it from aplace of having had it and knowing
how good it was andunderstanding the pain of what it
would feel like to have neverhad it at all.
And that was a tremendousbridge of empathy in our marriage.
You said, I'm fatherless now.
(38:51):
Yeah.
We shared that suffering together.
Yeah.
And for those of you who arethe real ones who have been watching
these, this goes back to theepisode where we talked about the
me sabotaging holidays,because suddenly your perspective
on holiday started to change.
Yeah.
I'm not getting a call on mybirthday from my dad.
(39:12):
I'm not.
And tainted it.
I remember, like, I.
Because you would be like, it's.
Who cares?
Whatever.
And.
But I understand that feelingbecause you're like, if I ain't gonna
celebrate Christmas with mydad, like, who cares?
Yeah.
And you had to find, like.
And I.
And now I'm like, ah, that'swhat it was, you know?
(39:33):
Yeah.
And it was like.
But then what's crazy?
And, like, this is how God works.
Because I had to learn how tofind joy in the midst of my own personal
pain and stop sabotagingeverybody's experience.
And it was so Weird, because Iwas an orphan and I was fatherless
and I was.
Was the one sabotaging.
(39:53):
And then I had to figure it out.
So I said, no, I'm not goingto do this.
I'm not going to pass that tomy children.
I'm not going to put this intomy marriage.
And I started figuring it out.
And then by the time you this,and I'm telling you in the alt, this
is God's ultimate twist offate, is the fatherless husband that
(40:13):
ruined the first part of yourmarriage ended up being the teacher
to guide you throughfatherlessness, to heal the next
season.
Like, if that to me is mindblowing, that's worth the price of
admission for this podcast.
Yeah, like that.
That is why these messagesneed to.
Get shared and take our painand don't make the same mistakes.
(40:34):
Right?
Like, because I, if I couldhave sat Mike and Julie down and
I would have looked him in hereyes and I would say, you guys don't
understand your soul mates.
You don't understand Julie,you don't understand.
You're going to lose Randy andMike, you're going to figure out,
you're going to be known forthe one who makes the memories on
the holidays, and you're goingto teach her how to actually heal
(40:57):
through a season of fatherlessness.
You're going to become.
And you wouldn't believe it,but the crazy thing is we can't go
back.
And you and young, you wouldhave never believed if I showed up
and I'm from the future.
And Mike, you're going toactually teach her how to be happy
on Christmas.
Oh, my gosh, that makes mewant to cry.
(41:17):
I'd be like, what?
And then, Julie, you're goingto understand him in a way you never
thought imaginable.
We.
We couldn't have understood it.
Right.
So why do I say that?
For your marriage?
The reason why I say that isthose who have the greatest capacity
to hurt have the greatestcapacity to heal.
(41:39):
Yeah.
Those who have forgiven much,love much.
It's what the word of God says.
So in a marriage, learn how to forgive.
Learn how to release.
Learn.
Learn how.
You know.
70.
The Bible says 70 times 7.
Why?
Because.
Was I.
Was Mike doing somethingagainst you or was Mike responding
(42:02):
to a lifetime worth of pain?
Right.
So you keep forgiving me,knowing that I'm on a journey.
Right.
Because then.
And you did.
Ultimately, you did.
We had a lot of fights, a lotof arguments, but then what happened
was you had been sowing seedsof reconciliation and healing, and
in your greatest Moment ofneed I was able to walk you through
because I remember you weresaying a lot of dark stuff.
(42:25):
Yes.
It was not a good thing.
You were like, man.
And you started to.
And it was so scary becauseyou started to act like the younger
version of me.
Yeah.
And I saw the father wound.
You literally said, yeah,nobody really loves me.
My dad really loved me.
These people are fake.
And that was like, that's theorphan spirit.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
(42:46):
And I'd be like, no, Julie,like, they do love you.
And.
But no one's gonna love youlike your biological father.
But that doesn't mean thattheir love's not real.
Nobody's gonna love you likeyour heavenly father, but that doesn't
mean that their love's not real.
And I was like, literallyspeaking to me.
Yeah.
And it was like a mind blowingexperience where I was like, whoa.
(43:07):
But see, God knew that.
And this is the never tell youin marriage is that if you live long
enough, you all become fatherless.
Right.
If you.
So what happens the longeryou're married is you share scars,
you share wounds.
And that's why the Lord'splaced you together for co laboring
for companionship, to carryeach other.
(43:28):
So I want to give you theclosing thought, by the way, and
let me just state for therecord, you know, when we started
this, you were like, come on,let's just get this over with.
And every episode it's beenlike 45 minutes.
Tell my business.
And I think it's been beneficial.
And I've.
We've enjoyed having theconversations with you, we've enjoyed
(43:49):
typing you back, and all thetestimonies are blowing our minds.
And that's why we do this.
And you know, we.
We have, I mean, Bible studiesand all that.
And of course, all of this isscriptural, it's biblical.
But instead of going throughlike the.
The cleverly written script, Isaid, julie, what if we just got
together and we just.
You brought like physicallybrought them into our living room
(44:13):
so that.
That's where you're at right now.
This, this is our home.
And your family was our dog.
That was our dog.
And your family is your resume.
Yeah.
Not your.
Not fill in stadiums, not bestselling books, not launching campuses,
not writing the worship songsthat are sung in many languages.
Not.
(44:34):
Not hundreds of peopleclapping for you.
Your biggest accomplishment,your true resume, is your family.
And you know, I'll say this,and I want you to close it out.
You know, there's a renownedman of God.
Renowned man of God.
You would know him.
Everybody Watching would.
Would know him.
He's since passed away and hiswife married again.
(44:54):
And they asked him the.
They asked her the question,you seem so much happier in your
second marriage, but how couldthis be so?
Because you were married toone of the greatest men of God in
recorded history.
Like, you know, surely, youknow, that was a great marriage,
but you seem happier now tothis guy.
And she literally said, myfirst husband loved Jesus, but my
(45:18):
second husband loves me.
That's the famous quote.
My first husband loved Jesus.
My second husband really loves me.
And I think that there's a lotof guys watching right now that they
need to learn how to, like,really love.
Not, do not.
Oh, I know.
I love my wife.
No, no.
(45:38):
Does your wife feel loved?
Yeah, it's true.
I mean, I know, like, whenpeople ask me questions, they ask
me a lot of questions aboutyou, especially when they come to
our church.
And it's funny because I haveto, like.
Like, think, like, oh, they'reasking in the context of the church,
but my first thought isn'tabout the church.
(45:59):
It has nothing to do with the church.
My first thought is all the,like, our life, like, our real life,
you know?
So it's just so interestingyou would say that, because I don't
ever think about you as a pastor.
I have.
That's why I have to call youPastor Mike, because I have to, like,
(46:19):
put myself in a position toremember, like, oh, my gosh, we're
pastors.
You know, Like, I.
Sometimes when we're laughingand where I.
I.
Not that I forget, but, like,I don't think about you like that.
So it's.
Wow, I like that you said that.
That's nice.
I had never heard that before.
(46:39):
Yeah.
Okay, welcome to our podcaston what men and women really Want.
We are in episode three, andhopefully you got your spouse with
you, or if you're single,you're just holding space for them
like this.
Just weeping right now, justwaiting in the seat, waiting for
your Boaz.
But my name is MikeSignorelli, and this is my beautiful
wife, Julie, and we are herein New York City, and today we're
(00:55):
going to talk about what menand women really want.
Men really want peace and solutions.
Okay.
And women really want to beheard and want to.
Want to be understood.
Okay?
Now, if you didn't pick up onit, these are two seemingly opposed
ideas.
Yes.
Right.
Yes.
So we're going to delve intothat, and I want you guys to stay
(01:17):
through the entire duration ofthis podcast because there's so many
testimonies coming in abouthow this podcast is helping to heal
relationships, restore relationships.
Like, people are getting theirfire back.
They're rekindling.
There's people who are singlewho are, like, literally being prepared
for marriage as a result ofthis as well.
So shout out to all the single folks.
(01:39):
All right, so here's the thingthat's weird.
Yeah.
As a leader who leads multipleentities, we have a charity where
we do disaster relief andprovide food to people in different
regions.
We have the church.
I have Mike Signorelli Ministries.
Like, there's a lot of.
I'm a filmmaker.
(02:00):
I have a movie that was intheaters, which, by the way, Domin
Revival is online now.
You can watch it, you know, atAmazon and these different places.
My point is, I lead a lot of people.
I have a lot of staff members,and I actually get celebrated for
my ability to solve problems.
(02:20):
You know where I'm going.
I know where I'm going.
Go ahead.
I solve problems for a living,and I get celebrated for that.
Like, people seek me out.
Like, I.
I have a.
I also have an association ofchurches called Movement, where lead
pastors from all over the andeven other countries are like, help
me solve my problems.
So imagine what happens when Icome into my own home and you are
(02:44):
my kryptonite, because youdon't want me to solve your problems.
You don't want me to give you solutions.
You don't want to give me a.
You don't want me to give youa plan.
You just want me to listenbecause you need to be heard and
understood.
So on behalf of all of the menin existence, I just want to tell
you a couple things.
Men.
And then I want to hear fromyou because we're going to, you're
going to give up the playbook?
(03:05):
Going to try from the women.
I'm going to try.
If you think men, that makingmore money is going to cause you
to be respected more in yourown home.
Get that idea out of your head.
If you think that having staffmembers and multiple companies and
different thing, like, if youthink that there's some sort of status.
Because when I first gotmarried to you, we had nothing.
(03:27):
No money, nothing.
And we were in survival modeand I was grinding out, working blue
collar jobs, building houses,doing construction, driving trucks.
I did all that, right?
Oh, yeah.
Then in my mind I would think,one day, one day I'm gonna earn the
right to be able to solve mywife's problems and be respected
(03:49):
by my wife.
And here I am 20 years laterand you still don't want me to solve
your problems.
I still do not, no matter what.
I accomplish in my life.
So what that's telling me, andthis sounds basic to some of you,
this is just where we're starting.
But this is not basic becausethere are men who are like, oh, if
I made more money, it, if Ithis, if I that.
(04:10):
It's like I'm telling you,like I've done all the things and
that's actually not the case.
Right, right.
So what is going on in the female.
My brain.
In my brain.
Okay, So I.
Okay.
Early in our marriage, youjust, I would be talking to you and
you'd be like, yeah, all yougot to do is this, this, this, this,
(04:31):
talk to them here, do this, whatever.
I write it out for you.
In fact, here's a funny storyI don't think I've ever told publicly.
Oh no.
How old was I?
23.
We were newly married.
So was that.
I was having problems.
I was having problems at work.
(04:51):
And you called my boss to fix it.
No, you know what?
That's, that's off topicbecause I set that dude correct.
I almost showed up to work andfixed the problem.
It was a man and a woman andyou talked to both of them.
And so I go into my boss's office.
No, this is, I'm going somewhere.
I feel like the people aregoing to be with me on this.
(05:13):
Honest to God, I totallyforgot this even happened until we
were.
Until I was listening to youtalk in this opener.
Cuz again, we have no notesand I had no warning we were doing
this.
No notes.
So.
Oh yeah, go ahead.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So this is totally authentic.
Okay.
That's just a dog.
(05:36):
This is real.
This is Real life.
This is real life because we.
You're in our living roomright now, and our dog is.
Was just dragged past usheaving, and my daughter exclaimed
that he has to poop reallybad, so we have no iPads.
Okay.
All right.
No, this is good.
We're leaving it in.
Yeah, we're leaving all thisin because we're.
(05:56):
I said I want to do this authentic.
Yeah.
You know, because what happensis people to put, oh, I need a theologian.
Homie, you need to learn howto love your wife.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like, okay, so back to my work story.
This is just.
Of course we're going to getinto the scriptures, and we've done
that in every episode.
But this is also, like, I wantreal authentic.
Yeah.
And the real authentic is our dog.
(06:17):
Dry heaving in the backgroundand pooping simultaneously.
All right, so back to my story.
So I was having issues at work.
I came home talking about itfor a few weeks and.
Weeks.
Weeks.
Stop justifying it.
Come on, man.
And so my lovely husband callsmy place of employment and talks
(06:39):
to both my bosses star, oh,this stupid dog.
Okay, you know what?
I spent two episodes singinghow much I hate this dog.
Now you understand.
Matter of fact, this is vindication.
Yeah.
Look at him.
Just leave him.
He's good.
Here, get him out of here.
Oh, okay.
He's got it.
(06:59):
I can't concentrate.
This dog.
Look at this dog.
He loves me.
He loves me.
All right, don't let himunplug anything.
Oh, my God.
Just let him out the front.
Just let him out the front.
Just.
You gotta clean it up.
Okay, okay.
So for weeks, you're tellingme about the female boss and the
male boss.
(07:20):
Yes.
And all the things that they're.
They're doing wrong and howit's affecting you.
Yes.
And how it's.
And how it's making.
Making your life harder.
Yeah.
And you call them.
So no, wait, wait.
So I go to lunch and I comeback and they were like, hey, so
the boss wants to speak with you.
Which I'm, like, always agreat employee.
(07:40):
Like, I'm a joy to work with.
And so I've never had.
I, like, never had that before.
So it was my first job out of college.
So I go and I sit down andthey were like, so your husband called
us today.
And bottom line is, and Ithink this actually ties in so perfectly
(08:02):
because again, I totallyforgot this even happened, is I didn't
want you to fix my problem.
And I was so mad.
I didn't think, like, oh, hecares about Me.
He loves me.
He, you know, and granted, Iwas pregnant, so there was a lot
of factors that made it, youknow, like where you felt like there
was possibly safety concernsand it wasn't like he just went above
(08:25):
him.
I want to make it clear.
I took care of my own.
Yeah, but they were like.
So we talked.
So we met your husband.
We talked to your husband.
And I was like, so mortified.
I was mad at him.
I was not happy.
And I didn't respect.
Get out of here.
He needs a scratches.
(08:45):
I didn't respect him.
I didn't respect you more.
I was so mad.
(10:12):
And I was like, why the heckwould you fix my problem?
Like, all I wanted to do istalk about my problem.
And I feel like a lot of men,they just don't want to take the
time to listen to their wife.
See what I said about this dogloves me.
Here, you gotta go, buddy.
So here, I'll get the dog out.
(10:32):
Maybe you.
Star, listen, listen, Star,you're gonna get fixed.
Look, he's licking all over meafter your dry heaving son.
Did he go?
All right, Go upstairs.
Go upstairs.
Oh, now look, he listens.
He listens to me.
He does.
Okay, but let me break it downfrom my perspective now.
(10:54):
Go ahead.
So.
Because the men watching aregoing to get my back and even some
of the women.
So I have a pregnant wife.
Yeah.
And they're making you do allkinds of work that a pregnant woman
shouldn't do.
And you had a people pleasing complex.
Yes.
And you are not sticking upfor yourself.
Now, first of all, in myopinion, because I'm old school,
(11:16):
I thought like, how dare youeven ask a pregnant woman to do this
stuff?
Especially advanced pregnancy.
Yeah.
And so if you're stupid enoughto even have a pregnant woman doing
this stuff, you're gonna get sunned.
That's what we call it.
You're gonna get a phone call.
And I literally, I mean, I kidyou not, because you complained to
me for like three weeks.
So imagine I have a pregnantwoman who's coming to me saying,
(11:38):
they're making me do this andthey're making me do that.
And the whole time you'retalking this thing and I'm, I'm thinking
myself, they're going toeither figure it out or I'm gonna
help them figure it out.
And you did.
The call was the warning.
Just to be clear, we resolvedit in one phone call.
So there was.
What happened was.
I'll never forget.
I made.
(11:58):
I called and I said, hey, hey,how are you doing?
Can I talk to whatever hername was Sherry or something.
And I said, you know, can Italk to so and so.
And they're like who is this?
I said this is Mike Signorelli.
And they're like are you a customer?
I was like no, I'm the husbandof Julie Signorelli and we need to
talk immediately.
And so all of a sudden thiswoman comes on.
(12:19):
I'm like listen, I'm going tomake this very, very clear.
We're going to talk and thenI'm going to talk to Brad after you.
So you might as well.
Whatever that guy's name was,you were close.
Don't say his name.
You know, Brad.
Now this is 20 years ago bythe way, this story.
And I said then we're going totalk to Brad together.
And I just laid it down.
I said she's pregnant.
And.
(12:39):
And pregnant women don't dothese jobs like this.
And you need to find one ofthose other guys to do it.
And you know, she can find something.
And I just basically ownedyour workplace.
And then Brad got on the phoneand said listen Brad, this is Mike.
And no, this.
I feel like his Internet namebut man, it's freakishly close.
Okay.
But I remember like I.
(12:59):
That I could have got introuble because.
And I don't recommend this andI'm not glorifying but I did threaten
him.
I.
I did say.
I said I got that.
I got that sense when I walked in.
But I said Brad, I'm going totell you this.
I said I talked to you.
I talked to Sherry a littlenicer than I'm going to talk to you.
I said Brad, if.
If I find out that my wife hasdone A, B and C, I'm not going to
(13:22):
reveal what the work was.
Yeah.
Because I keep the.
I deemed it some.
You have your pregnant wife do.
I said I'm going to come toyour job and I'm going to break your
face.
Like that's what I told Brad,don't do that.
And I.
And I said, and I said that it's.
It' as simple as that like you.
And I said I don't know ifanybody ever told you but pregnant
women are a unique populationthat have to have you considerations
(13:47):
and you need to make someaccommodations because that's fair.
And.
And I will say I was treatedvery nicely from that moment on with
a lot of accommodations andcare and.
Receive that to me is a lot treatment.
Yeah.
That was like you accidentallyme because I solved your problem
(14:09):
for real.
Cuz women miscarry Doingmanual labor and stuff like that.
It actually.
I mean, truthfully, like,we're laughing about it, but it actually
could have, like, compromisedour child.
But Bella's great.
She's doing well.
She's great.
But to.
To help you.
Yeah.
I do feel like that thereneeds to be a counterbalance of knowing
when.
Okay.
(14:30):
Because I get stuck in thatmode and I'm just like.
My way of relieving stress issolving problems.
Yeah.
So I'm confrontational becauseconflict delayed as conflict multiplied.
Yeah.
So a lot of times I'm like,no, no, this is going to get worse.
I need to do something now.
And one of the things about,like, high capacity leaders is you'll
notice they're very impulse driven.
(14:51):
Because they're like.
Because that's how I relieve stress.
Right, Right.
But then doing that for youall the time actually increases stress
increase.
And that's.
I want to help you.
Yeah.
You're partially right.
Yeah.
It didn't.
It didn't increase intimacy emotionally.
It actually made me afraid totell you things because I thought
(15:11):
I was gonna physically.
But.
But not even that.
I mean, things like, you know,let's say I'm having like a conflict
with somebody.
You know, I'm thinking likeyears ago.
Yeah.
You know, you would be like,well, what you gotta do is, blah,
blah.
And I'm like, okay.
But that's not really what Iwant to talk about.
What I really want to talkabout is how it's affecting.
(15:32):
Affecting me and what.
You know what I mean?
So.
Or maybe it's a.
A problem, you know,physically, or whatever it is.
It's like you just constantlywent into fix it mode.
And so what that did was itmade me shut down.
It made me shut down.
Maybe it doesn't foreverybody, but that's how I felt.
Yeah.
And.
And I think that I failed inthat way because.
(15:53):
And this is my frustration is that.
I'm like, hey, man, Brad'sdoing great.
I'm willing to break Brad'sface for you.
Where's my respect, girl?
And.
But then when I applied thatway of thinking to every situation,
it becomes counterintuitivebecause before I went into fix it
mode, you trusted me with yourproblems, and then now you don't.
(16:16):
But I think the compromise is like.
And I.
If I could say this to the women.
Sure.
The compromise is if you neverwant him to fix anything, you are
emasculating him.
Right.
That was exactly what I wasgoing to say.
But then on the other end ofthe spectrum, you know, to the Men,
if you always feel like youneed to fix it, you're probably failing
in.
(16:36):
And that's why I thinksometimes the women have these great
friendships with other women.
Because I used to listen toyou and your best friend on the phone,
and it was so annoying to mebecause I would be like, that was
the most worthless compliment.
We talked about this.
They would talk.
They talk on the phone for anhour, and they'd hang up, okay, I
feel so much better.
And I'd be like, that was themost worthless conversation I've
(16:57):
ever heard in my life.
You didn't offer one idea, one solution.
Nothing changed.
But you vented.
And that, to me, is two womenventing to each other is more valuable
than a man actually fixing it.
And that broke my brain.
Yeah.
And so I had to just be like,okay, but here's the thing.
I can't be mad at you forgoing to your girlfriends when I've
(17:20):
created a relationship whereyou can never vent.
Right.
Right.
So sometimes.
And I mean.
Or the safety of theinformation, it's like, yeah, sometimes
I just need to know, like, itstays between us.
Well, you know, don't becomplaining around me, because you're
all having a meeting.
And they're like, who is this?
I'm from corporate.
(17:40):
We're gonna have a talk.
Sherry, sit your butt down.
And the funny thing is, I was23 years old doing this.
Like, that's kind of unhinged.
But.
Yeah, but my.
What I was going to say,though, to vindicate you is, you
know, in the early days, whenI learned this concept, and first
of all, I had to ask you, so,like, hey, Julie, you know, like,
(18:03):
what's going on?
Is everything okay?
And, like, literally let you dump.
Yeah.
And then.
And the thing that was crazyabout is, like, I would be sweating
bullets.
Oh, you would see me sweating?
No, like, shaking.
You guys think we're joking.
Like, we're not joking.
He'd be listening.
And, I mean, there would bebeads, like, pulling, like, down
(18:24):
his face.
And I'm like, oh, my gosh,this is so intense.
And then he would be like, mm.
Well, because she's telling meabout this family member did this.
This person did this.
And to me, my brain is going amillion miles a minute, and I'm like,
I'm about to go beast mode.
I remember one time I wastalking about something, and you
(18:46):
didn't offer any solutions,and I was like, what?
What are you going to say?
And you're like, the onlything I can respond with is out how
to fix it were like, do youwant to hear it?
I was like, oh, heck, yeah.
And you were like, like, bringup the whiteboard.
Like, get it all.
No, no, he didn't do that.
(19:07):
But I was, like, offended whenyou didn't, so it's like sometimes
you could wish, like, I.
I wish my husband would neverfix a problem.
It's like, okay, but thendelete that out.
Sometimes your husband justwants to be heard.
Because what I realized is inyou trying to fix it, you were dealing
with.
With your own emotions of howit affected me.
(19:29):
Does that make sense?
So, like, it.
Even if I didn't take youradvice, you getting it out was simply
you dealing with now thiswhole new set of emotions that you
didn't have 20 minutes ago,but do now.
Because I.
I told you about how I washurt or frustrated or whatever, and
it's like, I feel the same way.
(19:51):
It's like when you come to mewith someone's, you know, like a
conflict or inner something interpersonal.
It's like they're talkingabout you like that.
Like, you know, like, it.
Now I have something I have todeal with.
So what I've learned is, like,you processing that has much more
to do with your emotions aboutthe situation than it does about
(20:14):
if I take your advice or not.
Yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, there's a lot of womenwho are content with their husband
fixing their furnace, but notfixing their problems.
Right.
And sometimes that can beconfusing to a man.
So it's like, you want me tofix your flat tire, but I can't talk
about this, and then it can,you know, so it's a compromise, I
think, you know, and you'vegot to find.
(20:34):
So I would say, like, to.
To the men, you know, it'slike, just try to listen.
Don't call their boss.
There's a.
Well, yeah.
Yeah, well.
Or call your.
Call their boss when they needto get a phone call.
Don't call Brad.
Brad's for good.
He's fine.
Well, you know, and I've hadto learn all that in the nuance to
it.
When do you do it?
(20:54):
When do you not?
Right.
But I think at the same time with.
With all this, like, marriagestuff is it's about trust, you know,
and so.
And learning each other.
Because there are times whereyou come to me saying, I actually
need you to fix this.
Oh.
And I would say, like, overtime before, I never wanted you to
(21:15):
fix anything for, like, years.
And then I was like, no, thisman got me.
Like, he's got my back.
He's looking out for me.
Like we're.
We're thick, you know, and soit's like, now it's implied.
Like, if I'm coming to you, Iwant your advice, you know?
Yeah, but that's trust.
That was.
(21:36):
But sometimes that was builtwith trust.
Yeah.
You know, sometimes we justverbally process.
You did that the other day.
You were like, hey, I need toget these feelings out.
I don't care.
You.
Not like you didn't care whatI thought, but, like, you didn't
want me to make you.
You didn't want me to try tomake you feel better.
You were like, I just need toget this out.
(21:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that.
And I was, like, just sittingthere because everything in me wanted
to start encouraging and.
Yeah.
You know.
Yeah.
I go through, like, a lot ofcomplex emotions, and I think a big
myth is that men don't haveemotions or men don't feel, you know,
feelings.
Matter of fact, I always saywhen I'm preaching about gossip,
(22:18):
everybody assumes I'm talkingabout women and I'm actually talking
about men because men tend tobe the biggest gossipers in any church.
And it's funny to me becausemen are incredibly emotional, and
they.
What happens is they findlittle, like, pockets of friendships
where they can deal with their emotions.
And.
And so when you.
It doesn't necessarily meanthat they're effeminate, but what
(22:40):
it means is that men.
The perception of men is theydon't have feelings or emotions.
The reality is they have bigfeelings and big emot.
And.
And I even think that sportssometimes becomes a.
A socially acceptable place toallow big emotions out.
Do you think that, like.
(23:01):
Let's just talk about that fora minute.
So men who have issues withgossiping, it could be that their
wife doesn't feel safe enoughfor them to talk to.
Oh, absolutely.
You know, and so maybe wives,that's a challenge for us.
Like, maybe we need to belistening and not try to correct
them.
Not be their mom when they'retalking to us.
(23:22):
Be their confident, be theirlover, be their listening ear, you
know, for when you do have big emotions.
I know for me in the car theother day, I mean, I felt like you.
I was sweating.
I'm like, I have so manyscriptures to help you.
And.
But that's not.
You didn't want that.
You wanted just to talk, just to.
Download it and be like, hey, because.
(23:43):
Yeah, I mean, I experience alot of.
You know, And.
And the other thing, too, isI'm pioneering.
I'M pastoring a lot of people.
I'm leading a lot of pastorsover our locations.
I care deeply about our men'sministry, our women's ministry, our
kids ministry, our youthministry, and I carry the burden
of all of those generations ofour church.
(24:04):
I.
I carry the burden of thegenders, the male and the female.
There's only two.
I carry the burden of who, youknow, dealing with social issues.
Because people look to me now.
I mean, I get millions ofviews on videos when I talk about
things, because people aresaying, I don't know if I trust the
news media, but I trust PastorMike, even if he doesn't know all
(24:25):
of the details.
He's a godly man.
He's a man of the word, so youcarry all that.
And the other day I was justlike, hey, you know, this is what
I'm processing.
It's weird to get hundreds ofmessages from people saying, would
you go live and talk aboutthis thing or that thing?
And you're pulled in every direction.
And I was like, I just need tofigure this out because I want to
be the best, you know.
(24:46):
But, like.
And so I think even forproblem solvers, there's going to
be problems you can't solve,you know, and we have this phrase
that we use in leadershipwhere we say, that's attention to
be managed, not a problem tobe solved.
So, for example, like, I'm notgoing to quit the church.
You know, like, I'm not goingto quit the church.
I'm not going to quit my marriage.
(25:07):
I'm not.
This is not a problem to be solved.
Like, this is attention to me manage.
And as a man, I have to dealwith being so many roles.
You know, men wear a lot of hats.
And so it was like me goingthrough that.
And I think a lot of times,like, even for men, it's funny because
they'll get together withother men and have conversations,
and they, they.
(25:28):
They will say things to menthat they know will be agreed with,
and they'll agree with eachother or they won't judge.
So a lot of times, like, malerelationships will be like, oh, yeah,
bro, I'm here for you.
Like, oh, yeah, bro, that, youknow, like, it's.
There's a weird loyalty theyhave now.
Some of that can becomedemonic and toxic because what a
male friendship should be isan accountability circle.
(25:51):
But a lot of times it becomesa gossip circle because it's like,
what happens is your wifetells you this is the other side
because you just talked about,we need a Listener, Amanda.
But the other side issometimes the wife is the only accountability
the husband has, because thehusband goes into the friend circles
and goes into an echo chamberwhere they all agree with him, and
(26:12):
instead of holding himaccountable, and so sometimes you
got to watch that.
So I would say to the menright now, like, sometimes your wife
is right, and you startedtelling her stuff and you didn't
like what she said back, andyou started yelling and getting mad.
But your friends are not evengood friends to you because they
didn't hold you accountable toGod's word and the truth.
(26:33):
And.
But your wife did.
But I'll.
I'll.
I'll counterbalance a littlebit with that, because sometimes
women can be very hard on men.
Oh, absolutely.
And when they do, you know, if.
If a man struggles with prideand then they do become vulnerable
enough to share something ontheir heart that they're struggling
with.
When we come at you with,yeah, I told you that was gonna happen.
(26:56):
It's like, all that trust,that thing that.
That vulnerability that tookhim so much to bring the guard down,
it's like, was met with I toldyou so.
Yeah.
You know, and it's like, aswomen, I'm really challenging you
to be a safe place for yourhusband when he is vulnerable.
(27:19):
Don't try to fix it eitherwith I told you so, or trying to
be their mom or trying to be,you know, somebody who's like, oh,
this is a vulnerability.
I'm gonna take my jab.
Yeah, that's exactly what you get.
You got a temper or whatever.
It.
You know, whatever.
I'm just kind of filling inthe blank.
It's like, you've.
(27:39):
If don't ever elevate yourneed for vindication above their
need for vulnerability.
Right.
So it's like, oh, I told you so.
The.
Your need for vindication justsuperseded their need for vulnerability.
So sometimes it's not I toldyou so.
Sometimes it's like, I'm justgoing to let you tell me how you
feel and let.
(28:00):
Let you process this, becauseI know.
A lot of women were probablylistening to you being like, yeah,
get them, Pastor Mike.
But, like, I'm listening toyou, and I'm like, no, ladies, take
a seat.
Like, you have something tolearn here.
Yeah.
Because I always think people default.
Like, oh, yeah, the.
Is the best communicator.
It's like, not always the case.
You know, sometimes we can useour communication to really stab.
(28:24):
Oh, yeah.
And something.
I did that.
Oh, yeah.
I've got stab wounds all over me.
Watch it.
Oh, you could go ahead, but.
But I mean, here's the thing.
You know, maybe we'll kind oflike wind down here, but.
But I'm going to save the mic drop.
Like, we're going to go forthe grand finale right now, but I
need you to tap the subscribebutton and this is a four part series
(28:48):
and I want you to binge watchall four of them.
And by the way, if you are inone night, you probably cried, you
probably laughed, and this ishelping you so much.
So go ahead and just tap thesubscribe button right now and join
the channel and.
Okay, so here's what I wantedto say.
You know, talking aboutvindication versus vulnerability
(29:10):
because your marriage shouldbe the place where you're the most
vulnerable.
And oftentimes it feels like the.
The place where you could bethe least vulnerable.
And, you know, we had aconversation in Brazil that was one
of.
I mean, yeah, we.
So what happened was some dearmembers of our church that have been
with us from the beginning.
Yeah.
And they've never left.
(29:31):
They've.
They've stayed faithful.
They've.
You know, they, they're just agood family, like great Christian
family.
Great, great.
So essentially they were doing their.
A big wedding ceremony.
I don't know how to put it,but they were, they were basically
going to Brazil to be like,hey, they're renewing their vow.
Yeah, they're renewing our vow.
(29:51):
We never had the ceremony thatwe wanted, but we're gonna do the
one we always wanted in Brazilwhere, Where the, where the bride
is from.
And we want you guys to be the efficient.
And for us, that was a bigsacrifice to like go all the way
out there.
But we just love this couple.
And they've been so faithfulto our house.
And I was like, julie, we.
I want to be faithful to their house.
(30:12):
You know what I mean?
They've.
They've served V1.
We want to serve them.
Let's go.
Let's do this thing.
(31:22):
So we go to Brazil and youknow, and I was like, you know what?
Let's take some time for us,you know, and man, we had a conversation
at breakfast, which I'm notgoing to divulge.
Yeah, please don't, because that's.
But it was like, like youunfiltered told me the secrets of
your heart.
(31:42):
And these are things thatwives don't tell their husband.
They go to the grave with thisinformation, literally.
And then that caused me tounlock the secrets of my heart.
And I realized in that momentthat we are the same person.
And it was like, whoa.
We both struggle with the same things.
(32:04):
We both worry about the same things.
And in God's divine wisdom, hebrought us together.
Yeah.
And our.
Our greatest ally was each other.
Our greatest support was each other.
And that conversation, I mean,we literally cried over our breakfast
together.
And that.
And I.
That was one of those momentswhere I was like, you know, independent
(32:28):
of kids, independent of ministry.
You know, because before allof that, there was Mike and Julie,
and it had.
Our stuff.
Had nothing to do with ministry.
Nothing to do with ministry.
Nothing.
Have.
But I'm saying, like, we builtour life.
Right.
But the foundation.
Yeah.
Is just me and you.
And.
And it's like we went back tothat place and I was like, wow.
(32:49):
You know, because kids are atemporary assignment.
Yes.
They grow up, they leave thehome, they get married, you know,
the church.
I'm not always going to be thelead pastor of V1 Church.
I'm just the founding, firstlead pastor there.
You know, if the Lord tarries,there will be generations, like presidents.
You know, it's like you have.
I'm just George Washington ofthis thing.
I'm the founding father.
(33:10):
That doesn't mean I'm the only father.
And so those are all.
What does that mean?
Those are temporary assignments.
But the vows that we made werefor death do us part, which means
the way you get out of acovenant is dying.
And that is.
That's heavy.
And so I felt like when wewere in Brazil, we went back into
(33:31):
that foundation where it waslike, yeah, like, we.
This really works because we.
Ve.
We very much God.
God knew what he was doing outof billions of people, and we chose.
Right.
Yeah.
And the reason why I thinkit's important to say that is because
I feel like that conversationwas earned.
(33:52):
I was just thinking that itwas 20 years of trust.
Building trust, you know?
Yeah.
Those.
And I.
I think those are like treasures.
Yeah.
You know, when it's like 20years and you.
We.
We earned.
It was like, oh, this is a lotof mistakes.
(34:13):
Oh, yeah.
I mean, I.
I can't tell you how manytimes I broke your heart, misplaced
your trust, you know, took mycheap shots where I could.
When you came to me withsomething vulnerable.
I mean, more times than I careto remember.
Yeah.
(34:33):
I keep thinking about thisstory of when you and my brother
Maddie, redid my office in Valparaiso.
Yeah.
Because.
And, you know, you painted.
Didn't you paint the walls,like, green or something?
You know what?
It was during that era whereall the design shows were designing
a Room in one day.
And I thought, I could do that.
I cannot do that, by the way.
(34:54):
But me and your brother.
Yeah.
Yeah.
In a day.
Yeah.
While you were painted, youknow, everything.
And I remember coming home,and that just made me feel so special
because it made me feel like,man, my wife really loves me.
She really wants to createthis space because, you know me,
like, my whole thing is my worlds.
Everybody who really knows meis the world within the world.
(35:15):
I say that phrase, it's aworld within a world.
Like, that concept to me.
And I've always been like, Imake spaces.
Our house has all these little spaces.
Yeah.
Little.
Like, little worlds.
And they're so distinct.
And I had a guest over todayand a good friend of mine, Lee Cummings,
actually.
And you guys could watch that podcast.
(35:36):
But, you know, when I wasgiving him a tour of our house, it
really is.
Oh, I said, we do this over here.
We do that.
It's these little worlds.
And you had invested in myworld, you know, like, you helped
me create my world.
I think a healthy marriage isrenovating each other's worlds, where
it's like, I think I know whatJulie likes, and I'm gonna help her
(36:01):
renovate her world.
Like, I'm gonna.
I'm gonna help her flip this.
You know, like, it's like, Ihad some furniture in my office that
was old, and you painted it,and you made it look new.
Remember that?
So I think it's like, when youcome into a healthy marriage, you
bring furniture and.
And you bring your stuff.
You know, I'm talking metaphorically.
(36:21):
And then what happens is,like, if you're a good spouse, you
renovate it.
You know, when you're like,oh, hey, look, let me show you what
I can do with that dresser.
Like, let me show what I cando with that trauma.
Let me show what I can do withthat pain.
Let me show what I can do with that.
And it's like, you're flippingeach other's trauma.
You're flipping each other'spain, and you're renovating each
other's lives.
(36:42):
And.
But.
But.
And I.
And the reason why I say thatis because you're.
That you don't rent.
It's like, I didn't renovatemy own office.
You did it for me.
And then I remember.
And then obviously I did itfor you here in this house.
You renovated way more roomsfor me.
Yeah, I got one, though.
Yeah.
(37:02):
So it's like, what would yourmarriage look like if you let your
spouse renovate your pain?
What would You.
What if you unlock the door,let him into the hidden room, and
said, here's all my old furniture.
Here's all my trauma.
And I'm gonna let you.
I'm gonna go.
I'm gonna let you paint it.
I'm gonna let you change.
I'm gonna let you.
Let's see what you'll do with it.
(37:22):
Like, what if we thought aboutour secrets as furniture to be renovated?
Like, what if we.
You know.
And I think for me and you,it's like that.
That, to me, has been one ofthe greatest joys.
Like, when your father died, that.
That was a gravitational forcethat pulled us together in a closeness
(37:46):
we never experienced, becauseit was like your whole life you had
a father, and the first dayyou were fatherless was the first
day you understood aspects of me.
Oh, yeah.
That you had never.
Yes, absolutely.
It was like.
And I remember you looking atme, and it was like you were looking
at me through the eyes ofpain, and you were saying, you felt
(38:09):
this.
This is what you felt.
I'm never gonna get a hugagain from Randy.
No one's ever gonna call me onthe phone.
And I remember you would,like, slow down, and you would look
at me with these eyes, and itwas like something was.
The wheels were turning, andyou were like, this is the brokenness.
This is why you couldn't enjoy Christmas.
(38:30):
I was.
Was.
I was understanding it from aplace of having had it and knowing
how good it was andunderstanding the pain of what it
would feel like to have neverhad it at all.
And that was a tremendousbridge of empathy in our marriage.
You said, I'm fatherless now.
(38:51):
Yeah.
We shared that suffering together.
Yeah.
And for those of you who arethe real ones who have been watching
these, this goes back to theepisode where we talked about the
me sabotaging holidays,because suddenly your perspective
on holiday started to change.
Yeah.
I'm not getting a call on mybirthday from my dad.
(39:12):
I'm not.
And tainted it.
I remember, like, I.
Because you would be like, it's.
Who cares?
Whatever.
And.
But I understand that feelingbecause you're like, if I ain't gonna
celebrate Christmas with mydad, like, who cares?
Yeah.
And you had to find, like.
And I.
And now I'm like, ah, that'swhat it was, you know?
(39:33):
Yeah.
And it was like.
But then what's crazy?
And, like, this is how God works.
Because I had to learn how tofind joy in the midst of my own personal
pain and stop sabotagingeverybody's experience.
And it was so Weird, because Iwas an orphan and I was fatherless
and I was.
Was the one sabotaging.
(39:53):
And then I had to figure it out.
So I said, no, I'm not goingto do this.
I'm not going to pass that tomy children.
I'm not going to put this intomy marriage.
And I started figuring it out.
And then by the time you this,and I'm telling you in the alt, this
is God's ultimate twist offate, is the fatherless husband that
(40:13):
ruined the first part of yourmarriage ended up being the teacher
to guide you throughfatherlessness, to heal the next
season.
Like, if that to me is mindblowing, that's worth the price of
admission for this podcast.
Yeah, like that.
That is why these messagesneed to.
Get shared and take our painand don't make the same mistakes.
(40:34):
Right?
Like, because I, if I couldhave sat Mike and Julie down and
I would have looked him in hereyes and I would say, you guys don't
understand your soul mates.
You don't understand Julie,you don't understand.
You're going to lose Randy andMike, you're going to figure out,
you're going to be known forthe one who makes the memories on
the holidays, and you're goingto teach her how to actually heal
(40:57):
through a season of fatherlessness.
You're going to become.
And you wouldn't believe it,but the crazy thing is we can't go
back.
And you and young, you wouldhave never believed if I showed up
and I'm from the future.
And Mike, you're going toactually teach her how to be happy
on Christmas.
Oh, my gosh, that makes mewant to cry.
(41:17):
I'd be like, what?
And then, Julie, you're goingto understand him in a way you never
thought imaginable.
We.
We couldn't have understood it.
Right.
So why do I say that?
For your marriage?
The reason why I say that isthose who have the greatest capacity
to hurt have the greatestcapacity to heal.
(41:39):
Yeah.
Those who have forgiven much,love much.
It's what the word of God says.
So in a marriage, learn how to forgive.
Learn how to release.
Learn.
Learn how.
You know.
70.
The Bible says 70 times 7.
Why?
Because.
Was I.
Was Mike doing somethingagainst you or was Mike responding
(42:02):
to a lifetime worth of pain?
Right.
So you keep forgiving me,knowing that I'm on a journey.
Right.
Because then.
And you did.
Ultimately, you did.
We had a lot of fights, a lotof arguments, but then what happened
was you had been sowing seedsof reconciliation and healing, and
in your greatest Moment ofneed I was able to walk you through
because I remember you weresaying a lot of dark stuff.
(42:25):
Yes.
It was not a good thing.
You were like, man.
And you started to.
And it was so scary becauseyou started to act like the younger
version of me.
Yeah.
And I saw the father wound.
You literally said, yeah,nobody really loves me.
My dad really loved me.
These people are fake.
And that was like, that's theorphan spirit.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
(42:46):
And I'd be like, no, Julie,like, they do love you.
And.
But no one's gonna love youlike your biological father.
But that doesn't mean thattheir love's not real.
Nobody's gonna love you likeyour heavenly father, but that doesn't
mean that their love's not real.
And I was like, literallyspeaking to me.
Yeah.
And it was like a mind blowingexperience where I was like, whoa.
(43:07):
But see, God knew that.
And this is the never tell youin marriage is that if you live long
enough, you all become fatherless.
Right.
If you.
So what happens the longeryou're married is you share scars,
you share wounds.
And that's why the Lord'splaced you together for co laboring
for companionship, to carryeach other.
(43:28):
So I want to give you theclosing thought, by the way, and
let me just state for therecord, you know, when we started
this, you were like, come on,let's just get this over with.
And every episode it's beenlike 45 minutes.
Tell my business.
And I think it's been beneficial.
And I've.
We've enjoyed having theconversations with you, we've enjoyed
(43:49):
typing you back, and all thetestimonies are blowing our minds.
And that's why we do this.
And you know, we.
We have, I mean, Bible studiesand all that.
And of course, all of this isscriptural, it's biblical.
But instead of going throughlike the.
The cleverly written script, Isaid, julie, what if we just got
together and we just.
You brought like physicallybrought them into our living room
(44:13):
so that.
That's where you're at right now.
This, this is our home.
And your family was our dog.
That was our dog.
And your family is your resume.
Yeah.
Not your.
Not fill in stadiums, not bestselling books, not launching campuses,
not writing the worship songsthat are sung in many languages.
Not.
(44:34):
Not hundreds of peopleclapping for you.
Your biggest accomplishment,your true resume, is your family.
And you know, I'll say this,and I want you to close it out.
You know, there's a renownedman of God.
Renowned man of God.
You would know him.
Everybody Watching would.
Would know him.
He's since passed away and hiswife married again.
(44:54):
And they asked him the.
They asked her the question,you seem so much happier in your
second marriage, but how couldthis be so?
Because you were married toone of the greatest men of God in
recorded history.
Like, you know, surely, youknow, that was a great marriage,
but you seem happier now tothis guy.
And she literally said, myfirst husband loved Jesus, but my
(45:18):
second husband loves me.
That's the famous quote.
My first husband loved Jesus.
My second husband really loves me.
And I think that there's a lotof guys watching right now that they
need to learn how to, like,really love.
Not, do not.
Oh, I know.
I love my wife.
No, no.
(45:38):
Does your wife feel loved?
Yeah, it's true.
I mean, I know, like, whenpeople ask me questions, they ask
me a lot of questions aboutyou, especially when they come to
our church.
And it's funny because I haveto, like.
Like, think, like, oh, they'reasking in the context of the church,
but my first thought isn'tabout the church.
(45:59):
It has nothing to do with the church.
My first thought is all the,like, our life, like, our real life,
you know?
So it's just so interestingyou would say that, because I don't
ever think about you as a pastor.
I have.
That's why I have to call youPastor Mike, because I have to, like,
(46:19):
put myself in a position toremember, like, oh, my gosh, we're
pastors.
You know, Like, I.
Sometimes when we're laughingand where I.
I.
Not that I forget, but, like,I don't think about you like that.
So it's.
Wow, I like that you said that.
That's nice.
I had never heard that before.
(46:39):
Yeah.
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