July 4, 2025 • 31 mins
Are UFOs real? Can life exist on other planets? What actually happens when we die?
In this thought-provoking episode, Pastor Mike Signorelli sits down with world-renowned astrophysicist and theologian Dr. Hugh Ross to explore the intersection of science, faith, and the supernatural. From the increase in UFO sightings to the connection between occult activity and interdimensional phenomena, no topic is off-limits.
Dr. Ross brings decades of scientific research and biblical understanding to the table as he shares compelling evidence for a Creator, explores the nature of non-physical reality, and describes the powerful moment he surrendered his life to Jesus after a deep study of cosmology.
- The connection between UFOs, demons, and fallen angels
- Why many so-called “alien encounters” are spiritually dangerous
- The scientific case for Earth as a uniquely habitable planet
- What the Bible and science reveal about life after death
- Dr. Ross’s journey from agnostic scientist to devoted Christian
💬 “When you combine Scripture with science, it doesn’t weaken your faith—it deepens it.”
Whether you're a skeptic, seeker, or believer, this episode will challenge your thinking and inspire awe for the Creator of the universe.
👇 Explore More from Dr. Hugh Ross:
📖 Get his book: https://tinyurl.com/bdcw9dj8
🌐 Visit Reasons to Believe: https://reasons.org
🌍 Need more tools to strengthen your faith and calling?
Visit www.mikesignorelli.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:33):
All right, Dr.
Hugh Ross, thank you so muchfor being with us today.
I'm going to jump right intothe first question now.
Selfishly, I'm asking youquestions that I am desperate to
hear your answer on because Irespect you so much, not just intellectually,
but also spiritually, which isso unique about your life.
But recently the Wall StreetJournal reported that, you know,
(00:55):
according to US Intelligencereports, UFO sightings have increased
in the past two years.
So from a scientificperspective, from a spiritual perspective,
is there any validity to these reports?
I know so many people areasking the question, is there life
outside of the planet?
Well, two years ago is whenthe US Government and several European
(01:18):
governments basically releaseda lot of classified material on UFOs.
You know, that sparked a lotof interest in UFOs.
So I'm not at all surprisedthat they're getting more reports
because it's on people's radarscreen and I'm not seeing anything
in the new reports that'sdistinctly different from what's
(01:40):
been happening over the pasthundred years.
But yes, it is true that theyare getting more reports, mainly
because people are reporting it.
I mean, a lot of people Italked to, I've had UFO encounters
and they've never talked toanybody about it.
Yeah, that's such a great point.
And so what, what do you makeof these reports?
(02:00):
How do you explain it from ascientific perspective?
Because, you know, there's somuch bad information online.
What would you say?
What, what is this UFO phenomenon?
Well, I was an amateurastronomer before I became a professional
astronomer.
And as an amateur, I alwayswound up with a job of dealing with
(02:20):
the UFO reports that wouldcome into our astronomy club or the
universities where I was studying.
So without any intent on mypart, I wound up becoming an expert
on UFOs.
And I can tell you that about99% of what people report to me as
UFOs are phenomena that arenaturally explained.
(02:43):
They're hoaxes or it's secretmilitary activity that's going on.
When I look at the 1%residual, it has the property of
defying the laws of physics.
And yet in many cases we canprove that the phenomena is real.
We're dealing with nonphysical reality.
(03:03):
And you know, I took a coursefrom Carl Sagan when I was at the
University of Toronto.
He was extremely dismissive ofUFOs, but that was because his worldview
would not tolerate thepossibility of non physical reality.
As a Christian, my worldviewdoes tolerate that possibility.
I mean, God created anotherrealm independent of the universe
(03:26):
for the angels and so what wesee in this 1% residual, for example,
is UFOs coming through ouratmosphere at 5 to 18,000 miles per
hour.
But the witnesses never reporta sonic boom.
They never report any evidenceof heat friction behind the ufo.
(03:47):
If this was a physical craftcoming through our atmosphere, you
would get easily heard sonic booms.
So, for example, when thisspace shuttle comes through our atmosphere,
you get two loud sonic boomsand you see this trail of heat friction.
We don't see that with theUFOs, but there's 2,000 documented
(04:09):
cases where observers see theUFO going through the atmosphere
and it crashes into the earth.
And when you go to the crashsite, you actually see a shallow
crater.
If there's snow, the snow ismelted, the vegetation is damaged.
But when you investigate thecrater site, you can't find any artifacts
(04:30):
or debris.
Again, if it's a physicalcraft, there would be debris, there'd
be some physical artifactsthat people could pick up.
We don't see that.
And then what's coming overthese new reports from the Navy and
the Air Force is these pilotsactually seeing these UFOs turning
(04:51):
sharp right angle corners oracute angles at 5 to 25,000 miles
per hour.
No physical object canwithstand those G forces.
It would shatter.
So we're dealing with nonphysical reality.
Wow, that's absolutely mind blowing.
And I want to focus on thatphrase, non physical reality.
(05:13):
Now, having said that, do yousee any kind of connection between
occult activity and UFO sightings?
Because if we can eliminatethe variable of this is physical,
we know it's not physical andit's not possible.
(06:33):
And when you clearly establishthat, then the next step is what
connection between occultactivity, supernatural spiritual
activity, maybe clandestinedark activity and UFO sightings have
you seen?
Well, I'm the one Christian asan astrophysicist that's written
on this phenomena.
(06:53):
But I know of five otherswho've spent at least a decade studying
the UFO phenomena who are notbelievers, but they agree with me
that we're dealing withsomething beyond the space time,
dimensions of the universe.
The French astrophysicistJacques Bellee, who's put the most
research into the UFOphenomena, says we're dealing with
(07:14):
interdimensional beings.
Now, from a Christianperspective, we would recognize that
angels are interdimensional beings.
And this is where I think theresearch on close encounters is important.
That was Alan Hynek, theAmerican astrophysicist who came
up with this term, closeencounters of a first kind, second
(07:37):
kind, third kind.
Well, a close encounter iswhere the human contactee is less
than 500ft from the UFO phenomena.
And then, you know, the secondkind is where they actually have
communication.
Third kind is where there'sactual contact.
And what we notice in theseclose encounters, in no case is it
(08:03):
beneficial for the humancontact team.
It's always deleterious.
The best you're going to comeaway with from a close encounter
is recurring, terrifying nightmares.
What's the worst case scenario?
People been killed by these encounters.
So injuries and death has happened.
(08:23):
More commonly, it's the deathor the injury of the animals that
are associated with the human contactee.
And so we're not dealing withsomething that's beneficial, we're
dealing something that's harmful.
And then when you look atthose cases where a communication
has come from these UFO beingsto the human contactee, number one,
(08:50):
their astronomy is never accurate.
It impresses the humancontactee, who's not educated in
astronomy, but it's always inaccurate.
And moreover, the phenomenaalways keeps pace with our advancing
technology.
Signs of deception and thatwhere there is actual verbal communication
(09:11):
taking place.
A famous incident is where thehuman contactee was put into a trance
and then began to write a book.
It's called the Orontia bookand it's the bible of several UFO
cult religions.
It's almost 4,000 pages long.
And a third of the content ofthe Orontia book is focused on denying
(09:36):
the deity of Jesus Christ.
Wow, you're a pastor, youshould be able to figure out, okay,
if that's what's going on.
We're dealing with the fallenangels because this fits what the
bible tells us about themotivation of the.
Of the fallen angels, the demons.
Wow, that is just so, such anincredible insight.
(10:00):
And it makes total sensebecause as you take even a logical
scientific journey now, youcan see, okay, we have to rule out
a physical phenomenon, but,but that doesn't mean it's not any
less real.
It's just operating in anotherdimension and we're interacting with
it.
Then you look at theconsequences and then you take all
the studies that coupled withthat and you see a very clear, and
(10:22):
I hate to use this phrase, butI think it's apropos, like antichrist.
And so even in that.
So, wow.
Well, okay, well, let's go alittle bit deeper because this is
just so, so good as anastrophysicist, you know, just to
extend out on thisconversation, do you believe that
it is possible for life toexist on another planet?
(10:45):
So we've kind of dealt withthe UFO aspect, but, okay, we have
this vast universe and there'sgot to be something, right?
Pastor Mike?
Before I go there, Mike, acouple of my colleagues and I wrote
this book, Lights in the skyand Little Green Men.
And it's all about the UFO phenomena.
But what's unique about thebook, It's a scientifically testable
(11:09):
hypothesis.
Testable in this way we tellpeople, read the book.
If you're having these UFOencounters, here's a list of occult
activities that invite thedemons, the fallen angels, to invade
your life.
If you get rid of all thatwill be no more UFO encounters.
(11:29):
Wow.
But if you begin to practicethese things, don't be surprised
if you have these encounters then.
The other point we put in thebook is that UFO encounters vary
across the globe much higherin France and equatorial Brazil than
it is in the United States.
(11:50):
Why?
Because there's many morepeople in France and equatorial Brazil
that are involved in the occult.
There's a direct correlationbetween the percentage of the population
involved in the occult and thepercentage of the population that's
having these UFO encounters.
Wow.
And the statistics evenapplies to the United States.
(12:10):
You know, Hawaii and Alaskahave a higher incidence of UFO reports
than what you see, say, inMontana and Idaho.
But there's a directcorrelation between the percentage
of the population that'sinvolved in the occult in those regions.
So there is a scientificallytestable explanation for the UFO
(12:33):
phenomena.
I'm telling people, if youdon't believe our explanation, put
it to the test.
Come on.
You know, I.
I would encourage everybodywatching to grab the book.
The link is in the description.
So you just tap on the linkand get the book.
It is going to open up so muchunderstanding and revelation and
insight into what could behappening in your life.
(12:54):
Dr.
Ross, I'm sure you've seensome of the clips, but I go all over
the world preaching thegospel, and I can't tell you how
many people I've cast demonsout of, which Christ commanded his
believers to do.
There's a lot of need for freedom.
And so to see the convergencebetween the supernatural and the
scientific is just trulyunique to your ministry.
(13:16):
And I'm encouraging everybodytap the link in the description and
get his book now.
It's going to help you so much.
So having said that, though, Imean, I hear this all the time from
people that I pastor.
You know, Pastor Mike, there'sgot to be life in the universe.
There has to be something.
And so, yes, maybe there'sfallen angels and there's that spiritual
(13:37):
aspect, but you're telling methat nowhere in the universe.
Is there any kind ofintelligent life?
What would you say to that?
Well, I've written six booksanswering your question and basically
making the point that weastrophysicists have established
what we call habitability requirements.
And so, for example, for aplanet to be habitable, it has to
(14:00):
have a particular orbit aroundits host star.
Its host star has to haveparticular characteristics.
And so far, astronomers havediscovered 14 planetary habitable
zones.
We've also discovered almost5,400 planets beyond our solar system.
(14:22):
But as we look at thoseplanets, none of them reside in even
3 of the 14 known planetaryhabitable zones.
For a planet to be trulyhabitable, it must simultaneously
reside in all 14.
And we only know of one planetthat resides in all 14.
It's the one that you'resitting on.
(14:45):
Everywhere we look, we seeconditions that are hostile, not
only for advanced light, buteven for microbial life.
Now, we haven't searched theentire universe.
On the other hand, as we lookfar away, we're looking at galaxies
and stars as they were in the past.
But as we study the physics ofthese stars and galaxies, we can
(15:07):
predict what they're going tolook like in the future.
And they're going to take oncharacteristics that are not going
to be habitable for life.
So now there could be somefaraway location where God supernaturally
designed a planet just like hedid Earth.
(16:47):
And there's nothing in theBible that would forbid the possibility
of.
Of God creating life elsewhere.
Life like.
Well, there is one constraint.
It's in Hebrews 9 and 10,Jesus Christ died one time, one place
for all sinners.
However, that would not ruleout God creating grass on another
(17:08):
planet or fish on another planet.
It would simply rule out thepossibility of him creating beings
like us that are spiritual andin need of being redeemed from their
sin and their evil.
Now, having said all that,I've been on public record since
the 1980s.
We will find the remains oflife on the Moon and Mars and several
(17:34):
other solar system bodies forthe simple reason God has packed
our planet with such a hugeabundance and diversity of life.
And every time a big meteoritestrikes the Earth, Earth's soil gets
exported throughout the solar system.
One ton of Earth soil containsa hundred quadrillion.
(17:57):
No, pardon.
Yeah, yeah, 100 quadrillion microbes.
And so I've written an article.
You'll see it on our website.
Basically saying we need to goback to the Moon because on the surface
of the moon is 20,000kilograms of earth soil for every
100 square kilometers.
And in that Earth soil, wewill see the microbes of Earth's
(18:19):
first life.
Fascinating is that Earth'sgeology has destroyed the fossils
of Earth's first life, but hasalmost no geological activity.
We can go to the Moon, findthe fossils of Earth's first life,
and see who got the origin oflife model correct, the atheists
(18:40):
or the theists.
I actually got to speak atNASA Houston on this very topic and
said you need to go back tothe Moon and everybody's going to
be excited about this becausethe last time I checked, the US taxpayer
base was made up 100% ofatheists and theists.
So everybody should be excited.
(19:03):
NASA could actually have theprivilege of proving who got the
origin of life model right.
I love it.
I absolutely love that.
Yeah, I mean, it's just so good.
You have an incredible abilityto put very complex things in terms
that people can understand.
And this has just been such arich conversation.
(19:24):
You know, I just have a fewmore questions.
You've been so generous withyour time.
Many of you watching right nowhave been regulars to my, you know,
my videos and, you know, Ireach millions of people every month
and I've played some part inyour life as a Christian.
But you may not know that inthe early 2000s, I considered myself
(19:45):
a full blown atheist.
And I ended up randomly, I'msaying it in air quotes, moving in
with an Ivy League educatedtheologian my junior year of college,
and.
And he just systematicallydestroyed every argument that I had
against God.
And it was in that season thatI was introduced to Dr.
(20:06):
Hugh Ross.
And so it's such an incrediblehonor to even be able to have this
conversation because he was acatalyst for my journey back to Jesus
Christ.
And so I remember just readingyour work and I remember watching
lectures and this is way backwhen, you know, it's almost 20 years
now, and just weeping.
(20:26):
And it was because I didn'tknow that you could marry faith and
reason.
I thought that you had to kindof like divorce the scientific part
of your mind from theemotional part of your soul.
And it was really.
Dr.
Hugh Ross helped me bring allthose worlds into full surrender
to Jesus Christ, my entire being.
And so if you have just a fewshort moments to share your journey,
(20:50):
because I believe you wentfrom agnostic to Christian and there
was some scientific evidencethat you found in Scripture that
actually convinced you as partof your journey.
I don't know if you have justa few moments to share that.
Well, I was born, raised andeducated in Canada, but I got interested
in astronomy When I was justseven years of age.
(21:11):
In fact, from the age of sevenonwards, I was reading four or five
books on astronomy and physicsa week.
And by the time I was 16, Irealized the universe has a beginning.
And if the universe has abeginning, there must be a cosmic
beginner.
And I wanted to find thatcosmic beginner.
(21:31):
I didn't really know where tolook because I wasn't raised in a
Christian home.
And so I began to study thegreat philosophers, Immanuel Kant,
he's considered to be thefather of cosmology.
So I read his critique of PureReason and said, you know, this really
isn't fitting what Iunderstand about the universe.
I read Rene Descartes, and Iwent to a high school where we had
(21:54):
people refugees from allaround the world.
And so my fellow students wereencouraging me, well, look at the
Hindu Vedas, look at theBuddhist commentaries, look at the
Quran.
So I began to study theworld's holy books and recognize
that what they were sayingabout the universe was provably incorrect.
(22:15):
But I did get to havesignificant contact with two Christians
when I was 11 years of age.
And these were two businessmenthat came into our public school.
They didn't say a single word,but they put two boxes on our teacher's
desk, and those boxes werefilled with Gideon Bibles.
So I began to read that GideonBible at age 17, and right away recognized
(22:39):
that the opening pages of theBible describe an account of creation.
And what amazed me is howperfectly it followed the scientific
method.
Years later, I discovered whythe scientific method comes from
the pages of Scripture.
But saw that scientific methodwent through the account of the six
creation days and realizedeverything is correctly described
(23:02):
and the correct chronological order.
The Bible got this right.
I began to continue readinginto the Bible, realized I got all
the astronomy right.
I spent 18 months, one or twohours a night studying the Bible.
And when I finally got toRevelation 22, I realized I'd not
(23:23):
been able to find a singleprovable error or contradiction.
And I found over 200 placeswhere the Bible accurately predicted
future scientific discoveries.
And I still remember thenight, it was like one in the morning.
I went through a calculation.
What's the probability thatthese Bible authors could have predicted
(23:44):
all these scientificdiscoveries accurately without the
God of the universe inspiringthem to write what they wrote.
And that probability was lessthan 1 chance in 10 to the 300 power.
And I was weak.
My physics professor gave usan assignment to calculate the probability
(24:05):
that one of us in the classwould be killed by a sudden reversal
of the second law ofthermodynamics that probability is
one chance in 10 to the 80th,which is so small no one needs to
worry about ever being killedby a reversal of the second law of
thermodynamics.
But I had just proved tomyself that, that the message of
(24:27):
The Bible was 10 to the 220times more reliable than the second
law of thermodynamics.
And I got to give credit tothe Gideons because the Gideon Bible
they gave me had two pages atthe back explaining what you need
to do once you becomeconvinced you're reading the inspired
inerrant word from the onethat created the universe.
(24:49):
Explain to me I that I neededto live up to the Bible's moral standard.
And I was very attracted bythat moral standard, but realized
I couldn't live up to it.
And the Gideons explained thatthe creator of the universe, Jesus
Christ, came to planet Earth,lived a life of moral perfection
in front of us as an example,but then made an offer to trade his
(25:14):
moral perfection for our moral imperfection.
And the Gideons don't let youoff the hook.
They got a place for you tosign your name and date it, committing
your life to receive JesusChrist as the Savior from all of
your sins and to make him theboss of your life because he knows
better than you do what's bestfor you.
(25:35):
So I made that commitment at1:07 in the morning in my sophomore
physics university year andright away began to look for opportunities
to share my faith.
And God gave me amazingopportunities literally within weeks
after I signed my name in theback of that Gideon Bible.
(25:57):
Oh, wow.
You know, the presence of theHoly Spirit has just been so, so,
so palpable throughout thisentire talk.
You almost had me in tears.
I know that there are manymothers that are watching who have
children that have eitherabandoned the faith or maybe never
came to Christ.
And so there's a wrestling happening.
(26:18):
God, when is something goingto happen in my family?
And your story gives so muchhope that the answers are there.
And it's just such anemotional moment.
I've got one last question foryou, and it just ties perfectly into
this story that you told.
And I'm asking you partly as agenius status scientist, but also
(26:39):
a humble servant of JesusChrist, what happens when we die?
Okay, I've been asked that byseveral people that have been at
death's door, and if they area committed follower of Jesus Christ,
I tell them if they're lucidat the time of death, you will hear
your name being called.
And you'll get a personalescort from this realm into the next
(27:03):
realm.
It's Psalm 23, where you knowthy rod and thy staff comfort me,
and you know God will take youacross that threshold.
And I'm friends with anotherpastor in our church.
I'm on a pastoral staff of a church.
And one of those has been with300 people, Christians, who are lucid
(27:26):
at the time they die.
He says in every single case,they say I have to say goodbye.
He's telling me it's time.
And then they go, they heartheir name and they cross that threshold
and they go from the realm ofthe universe with its space time
dimensions, into a completelydifferent dimensional realm to be
(27:46):
with Jesus Christ and to bewith all the dead in Christ that
have preceded them.
And in every case, they'll bewelcomed by all these people congratulating
them on their life.
Now, the same pastor told mehe's also had experiences with people
that were denying God andwanted nothing to do with God.
(28:10):
He says when they're loose atthe time of death, they're screaming
obscenities at God andrejoicing that they get to go to
hell.
I mean, I tell people that Godgives you a choice where to spend
eternity.
You can spend eternity withhim or eternity without Him.
If you want nothing to do withGod, he's got a place for you.
(28:33):
But if you want to spendeternity with God, he's got a place
for you.
But in both cases, the placehas got nothing to do with his universe.
You know, when the universefulfills its purpose that God is
intended for, he'll replacehis universe with a brand new realm.
And so as he spoke theuniverse into existence, he'll speak
(28:54):
it out of existence.
And the Bible tells us whenthat happens, both heaven and hell
survive, which means they'renot part of the dimensional realm
of our universe.
They're beyond.
So profound, so absolutely profound.
Dr.
Hugh Ross, this has been oneof my favorite conversations of my
life.
I feel like it was two decades waiting.
(29:16):
I tried desperately not to cutyou off because there was just so
much wisdom in everything thatyou said.
I cannot thank you enough onbehalf of the entire channel.
I know that you havereasons.org you have so many books.
Where can people find out more?
I'd love to send people, butwhere do you think is the best place
to find your resources?
(29:37):
Well, reasons.org, they'llfind tens of thousands of articles
and thousands of video clips.
But you mentioned my books earlier.
People can get free chaptersof my books by Simply going to reasons.orgross.
All right, Dr.
Hugh Ross, thank you so muchfor being with us today.
I'm going to jump right intothe first question now.
Selfishly, I'm asking youquestions that I am desperate to
hear your answer on because Irespect you so much, not just intellectually,
but also spiritually, which isso unique about your life.
But recently the Wall StreetJournal reported that, you know,
(00:55):
according to US Intelligencereports, UFO sightings have increased
in the past two years.
So from a scientificperspective, from a spiritual perspective,
is there any validity to these reports?
I know so many people areasking the question, is there life
outside of the planet?
Well, two years ago is whenthe US Government and several European
(01:18):
governments basically releaseda lot of classified material on UFOs.
You know, that sparked a lotof interest in UFOs.
So I'm not at all surprisedthat they're getting more reports
because it's on people's radarscreen and I'm not seeing anything
in the new reports that'sdistinctly different from what's
(01:40):
been happening over the pasthundred years.
But yes, it is true that theyare getting more reports, mainly
because people are reporting it.
I mean, a lot of people Italked to, I've had UFO encounters
and they've never talked toanybody about it.
Yeah, that's such a great point.
And so what, what do you makeof these reports?
(02:00):
How do you explain it from ascientific perspective?
Because, you know, there's somuch bad information online.
What would you say?
What, what is this UFO phenomenon?
Well, I was an amateurastronomer before I became a professional
astronomer.
And as an amateur, I alwayswound up with a job of dealing with
(02:20):
the UFO reports that wouldcome into our astronomy club or the
universities where I was studying.
So without any intent on mypart, I wound up becoming an expert
on UFOs.
And I can tell you that about99% of what people report to me as
UFOs are phenomena that arenaturally explained.
(02:43):
They're hoaxes or it's secretmilitary activity that's going on.
When I look at the 1%residual, it has the property of
defying the laws of physics.
And yet in many cases we canprove that the phenomena is real.
We're dealing with nonphysical reality.
(03:03):
And you know, I took a coursefrom Carl Sagan when I was at the
University of Toronto.
He was extremely dismissive ofUFOs, but that was because his worldview
would not tolerate thepossibility of non physical reality.
As a Christian, my worldviewdoes tolerate that possibility.
I mean, God created anotherrealm independent of the universe
(03:26):
for the angels and so what wesee in this 1% residual, for example,
is UFOs coming through ouratmosphere at 5 to 18,000 miles per
hour.
But the witnesses never reporta sonic boom.
They never report any evidenceof heat friction behind the ufo.
(03:47):
If this was a physical craftcoming through our atmosphere, you
would get easily heard sonic booms.
So, for example, when thisspace shuttle comes through our atmosphere,
you get two loud sonic boomsand you see this trail of heat friction.
We don't see that with theUFOs, but there's 2,000 documented
(04:09):
cases where observers see theUFO going through the atmosphere
and it crashes into the earth.
And when you go to the crashsite, you actually see a shallow
crater.
If there's snow, the snow ismelted, the vegetation is damaged.
But when you investigate thecrater site, you can't find any artifacts
(04:30):
or debris.
Again, if it's a physicalcraft, there would be debris, there'd
be some physical artifactsthat people could pick up.
We don't see that.
And then what's coming overthese new reports from the Navy and
the Air Force is these pilotsactually seeing these UFOs turning
(04:51):
sharp right angle corners oracute angles at 5 to 25,000 miles
per hour.
No physical object canwithstand those G forces.
It would shatter.
So we're dealing with nonphysical reality.
Wow, that's absolutely mind blowing.
And I want to focus on thatphrase, non physical reality.
(05:13):
Now, having said that, do yousee any kind of connection between
occult activity and UFO sightings?
Because if we can eliminatethe variable of this is physical,
we know it's not physical andit's not possible.
(06:33):
And when you clearly establishthat, then the next step is what
connection between occultactivity, supernatural spiritual
activity, maybe clandestinedark activity and UFO sightings have
you seen?
Well, I'm the one Christian asan astrophysicist that's written
on this phenomena.
(06:53):
But I know of five otherswho've spent at least a decade studying
the UFO phenomena who are notbelievers, but they agree with me
that we're dealing withsomething beyond the space time,
dimensions of the universe.
The French astrophysicistJacques Bellee, who's put the most
research into the UFOphenomena, says we're dealing with
(07:14):
interdimensional beings.
Now, from a Christianperspective, we would recognize that
angels are interdimensional beings.
And this is where I think theresearch on close encounters is important.
That was Alan Hynek, theAmerican astrophysicist who came
up with this term, closeencounters of a first kind, second
(07:37):
kind, third kind.
Well, a close encounter iswhere the human contactee is less
than 500ft from the UFO phenomena.
And then, you know, the secondkind is where they actually have
communication.
Third kind is where there'sactual contact.
And what we notice in theseclose encounters, in no case is it
(08:03):
beneficial for the humancontact team.
It's always deleterious.
The best you're going to comeaway with from a close encounter
is recurring, terrifying nightmares.
What's the worst case scenario?
People been killed by these encounters.
So injuries and death has happened.
(08:23):
More commonly, it's the deathor the injury of the animals that
are associated with the human contactee.
And so we're not dealing withsomething that's beneficial, we're
dealing something that's harmful.
And then when you look atthose cases where a communication
has come from these UFO beingsto the human contactee, number one,
(08:50):
their astronomy is never accurate.
It impresses the humancontactee, who's not educated in
astronomy, but it's always inaccurate.
And moreover, the phenomenaalways keeps pace with our advancing
technology.
Signs of deception and thatwhere there is actual verbal communication
(09:11):
taking place.
A famous incident is where thehuman contactee was put into a trance
and then began to write a book.
It's called the Orontia bookand it's the bible of several UFO
cult religions.
It's almost 4,000 pages long.
And a third of the content ofthe Orontia book is focused on denying
(09:36):
the deity of Jesus Christ.
Wow, you're a pastor, youshould be able to figure out, okay,
if that's what's going on.
We're dealing with the fallenangels because this fits what the
bible tells us about themotivation of the.
Of the fallen angels, the demons.
Wow, that is just so, such anincredible insight.
(10:00):
And it makes total sensebecause as you take even a logical
scientific journey now, youcan see, okay, we have to rule out
a physical phenomenon, but,but that doesn't mean it's not any
less real.
It's just operating in anotherdimension and we're interacting with
it.
Then you look at theconsequences and then you take all
the studies that coupled withthat and you see a very clear, and
(10:22):
I hate to use this phrase, butI think it's apropos, like antichrist.
And so even in that.
So, wow.
Well, okay, well, let's go alittle bit deeper because this is
just so, so good as anastrophysicist, you know, just to
extend out on thisconversation, do you believe that
it is possible for life toexist on another planet?
(10:45):
So we've kind of dealt withthe UFO aspect, but, okay, we have
this vast universe and there'sgot to be something, right?
Pastor Mike?
Before I go there, Mike, acouple of my colleagues and I wrote
this book, Lights in the skyand Little Green Men.
And it's all about the UFO phenomena.
But what's unique about thebook, It's a scientifically testable
(11:09):
hypothesis.
Testable in this way we tellpeople, read the book.
If you're having these UFOencounters, here's a list of occult
activities that invite thedemons, the fallen angels, to invade
your life.
If you get rid of all thatwill be no more UFO encounters.
(11:29):
Wow.
But if you begin to practicethese things, don't be surprised
if you have these encounters then.
The other point we put in thebook is that UFO encounters vary
across the globe much higherin France and equatorial Brazil than
it is in the United States.
(11:50):
Why?
Because there's many morepeople in France and equatorial Brazil
that are involved in the occult.
There's a direct correlationbetween the percentage of the population
involved in the occult and thepercentage of the population that's
having these UFO encounters.
Wow.
And the statistics evenapplies to the United States.
(12:10):
You know, Hawaii and Alaskahave a higher incidence of UFO reports
than what you see, say, inMontana and Idaho.
But there's a directcorrelation between the percentage
of the population that'sinvolved in the occult in those regions.
So there is a scientificallytestable explanation for the UFO
(12:33):
phenomena.
I'm telling people, if youdon't believe our explanation, put
it to the test.
Come on.
You know, I.
I would encourage everybodywatching to grab the book.
The link is in the description.
So you just tap on the linkand get the book.
It is going to open up so muchunderstanding and revelation and
insight into what could behappening in your life.
(12:54):
Dr.
Ross, I'm sure you've seensome of the clips, but I go all over
the world preaching thegospel, and I can't tell you how
many people I've cast demonsout of, which Christ commanded his
believers to do.
There's a lot of need for freedom.
And so to see the convergencebetween the supernatural and the
scientific is just trulyunique to your ministry.
(13:16):
And I'm encouraging everybodytap the link in the description and
get his book now.
It's going to help you so much.
So having said that, though, Imean, I hear this all the time from
people that I pastor.
You know, Pastor Mike, there'sgot to be life in the universe.
There has to be something.
And so, yes, maybe there'sfallen angels and there's that spiritual
(13:37):
aspect, but you're telling methat nowhere in the universe.
Is there any kind ofintelligent life?
What would you say to that?
Well, I've written six booksanswering your question and basically
making the point that weastrophysicists have established
what we call habitability requirements.
And so, for example, for aplanet to be habitable, it has to
(14:00):
have a particular orbit aroundits host star.
Its host star has to haveparticular characteristics.
And so far, astronomers havediscovered 14 planetary habitable
zones.
We've also discovered almost5,400 planets beyond our solar system.
(14:22):
But as we look at thoseplanets, none of them reside in even
3 of the 14 known planetaryhabitable zones.
For a planet to be trulyhabitable, it must simultaneously
reside in all 14.
And we only know of one planetthat resides in all 14.
It's the one that you'resitting on.
(14:45):
Everywhere we look, we seeconditions that are hostile, not
only for advanced light, buteven for microbial life.
Now, we haven't searched theentire universe.
On the other hand, as we lookfar away, we're looking at galaxies
and stars as they were in the past.
But as we study the physics ofthese stars and galaxies, we can
(15:07):
predict what they're going tolook like in the future.
And they're going to take oncharacteristics that are not going
to be habitable for life.
So now there could be somefaraway location where God supernaturally
designed a planet just like hedid Earth.
(16:47):
And there's nothing in theBible that would forbid the possibility
of.
Of God creating life elsewhere.
Life like.
Well, there is one constraint.
It's in Hebrews 9 and 10,Jesus Christ died one time, one place
for all sinners.
However, that would not ruleout God creating grass on another
(17:08):
planet or fish on another planet.
It would simply rule out thepossibility of him creating beings
like us that are spiritual andin need of being redeemed from their
sin and their evil.
Now, having said all that,I've been on public record since
the 1980s.
We will find the remains oflife on the Moon and Mars and several
(17:34):
other solar system bodies forthe simple reason God has packed
our planet with such a hugeabundance and diversity of life.
And every time a big meteoritestrikes the Earth, Earth's soil gets
exported throughout the solar system.
One ton of Earth soil containsa hundred quadrillion.
(17:57):
No, pardon.
Yeah, yeah, 100 quadrillion microbes.
And so I've written an article.
You'll see it on our website.
Basically saying we need to goback to the Moon because on the surface
of the moon is 20,000kilograms of earth soil for every
100 square kilometers.
And in that Earth soil, wewill see the microbes of Earth's
(18:19):
first life.
Fascinating is that Earth'sgeology has destroyed the fossils
of Earth's first life, but hasalmost no geological activity.
We can go to the Moon, findthe fossils of Earth's first life,
and see who got the origin oflife model correct, the atheists
(18:40):
or the theists.
I actually got to speak atNASA Houston on this very topic and
said you need to go back tothe Moon and everybody's going to
be excited about this becausethe last time I checked, the US taxpayer
base was made up 100% ofatheists and theists.
So everybody should be excited.
(19:03):
NASA could actually have theprivilege of proving who got the
origin of life model right.
I love it.
I absolutely love that.
Yeah, I mean, it's just so good.
You have an incredible abilityto put very complex things in terms
that people can understand.
And this has just been such arich conversation.
(19:24):
You know, I just have a fewmore questions.
You've been so generous withyour time.
Many of you watching right nowhave been regulars to my, you know,
my videos and, you know, Ireach millions of people every month
and I've played some part inyour life as a Christian.
But you may not know that inthe early 2000s, I considered myself
(19:45):
a full blown atheist.
And I ended up randomly, I'msaying it in air quotes, moving in
with an Ivy League educatedtheologian my junior year of college,
and.
And he just systematicallydestroyed every argument that I had
against God.
And it was in that season thatI was introduced to Dr.
(20:06):
Hugh Ross.
And so it's such an incrediblehonor to even be able to have this
conversation because he was acatalyst for my journey back to Jesus
Christ.
And so I remember just readingyour work and I remember watching
lectures and this is way backwhen, you know, it's almost 20 years
now, and just weeping.
(20:26):
And it was because I didn'tknow that you could marry faith and
reason.
I thought that you had to kindof like divorce the scientific part
of your mind from theemotional part of your soul.
And it was really.
Dr.
Hugh Ross helped me bring allthose worlds into full surrender
to Jesus Christ, my entire being.
And so if you have just a fewshort moments to share your journey,
(20:50):
because I believe you wentfrom agnostic to Christian and there
was some scientific evidencethat you found in Scripture that
actually convinced you as partof your journey.
I don't know if you have justa few moments to share that.
Well, I was born, raised andeducated in Canada, but I got interested
in astronomy When I was justseven years of age.
(21:11):
In fact, from the age of sevenonwards, I was reading four or five
books on astronomy and physicsa week.
And by the time I was 16, Irealized the universe has a beginning.
And if the universe has abeginning, there must be a cosmic
beginner.
And I wanted to find thatcosmic beginner.
(21:31):
I didn't really know where tolook because I wasn't raised in a
Christian home.
And so I began to study thegreat philosophers, Immanuel Kant,
he's considered to be thefather of cosmology.
So I read his critique of PureReason and said, you know, this really
isn't fitting what Iunderstand about the universe.
I read Rene Descartes, and Iwent to a high school where we had
(21:54):
people refugees from allaround the world.
And so my fellow students wereencouraging me, well, look at the
Hindu Vedas, look at theBuddhist commentaries, look at the
Quran.
So I began to study theworld's holy books and recognize
that what they were sayingabout the universe was provably incorrect.
(22:15):
But I did get to havesignificant contact with two Christians
when I was 11 years of age.
And these were two businessmenthat came into our public school.
They didn't say a single word,but they put two boxes on our teacher's
desk, and those boxes werefilled with Gideon Bibles.
So I began to read that GideonBible at age 17, and right away recognized
(22:39):
that the opening pages of theBible describe an account of creation.
And what amazed me is howperfectly it followed the scientific
method.
Years later, I discovered whythe scientific method comes from
the pages of Scripture.
But saw that scientific methodwent through the account of the six
creation days and realizedeverything is correctly described
(23:02):
and the correct chronological order.
The Bible got this right.
I began to continue readinginto the Bible, realized I got all
the astronomy right.
I spent 18 months, one or twohours a night studying the Bible.
And when I finally got toRevelation 22, I realized I'd not
(23:23):
been able to find a singleprovable error or contradiction.
And I found over 200 placeswhere the Bible accurately predicted
future scientific discoveries.
And I still remember thenight, it was like one in the morning.
I went through a calculation.
What's the probability thatthese Bible authors could have predicted
(23:44):
all these scientificdiscoveries accurately without the
God of the universe inspiringthem to write what they wrote.
And that probability was lessthan 1 chance in 10 to the 300 power.
And I was weak.
My physics professor gave usan assignment to calculate the probability
(24:05):
that one of us in the classwould be killed by a sudden reversal
of the second law ofthermodynamics that probability is
one chance in 10 to the 80th,which is so small no one needs to
worry about ever being killedby a reversal of the second law of
thermodynamics.
But I had just proved tomyself that, that the message of
(24:27):
The Bible was 10 to the 220times more reliable than the second
law of thermodynamics.
And I got to give credit tothe Gideons because the Gideon Bible
they gave me had two pages atthe back explaining what you need
to do once you becomeconvinced you're reading the inspired
inerrant word from the onethat created the universe.
(24:49):
Explain to me I that I neededto live up to the Bible's moral standard.
And I was very attracted bythat moral standard, but realized
I couldn't live up to it.
And the Gideons explained thatthe creator of the universe, Jesus
Christ, came to planet Earth,lived a life of moral perfection
in front of us as an example,but then made an offer to trade his
(25:14):
moral perfection for our moral imperfection.
And the Gideons don't let youoff the hook.
They got a place for you tosign your name and date it, committing
your life to receive JesusChrist as the Savior from all of
your sins and to make him theboss of your life because he knows
better than you do what's bestfor you.
(25:35):
So I made that commitment at1:07 in the morning in my sophomore
physics university year andright away began to look for opportunities
to share my faith.
And God gave me amazingopportunities literally within weeks
after I signed my name in theback of that Gideon Bible.
(25:57):
Oh, wow.
You know, the presence of theHoly Spirit has just been so, so,
so palpable throughout thisentire talk.
You almost had me in tears.
I know that there are manymothers that are watching who have
children that have eitherabandoned the faith or maybe never
came to Christ.
And so there's a wrestling happening.
(26:18):
God, when is something goingto happen in my family?
And your story gives so muchhope that the answers are there.
And it's just such anemotional moment.
I've got one last question foryou, and it just ties perfectly into
this story that you told.
And I'm asking you partly as agenius status scientist, but also
(26:39):
a humble servant of JesusChrist, what happens when we die?
Okay, I've been asked that byseveral people that have been at
death's door, and if they area committed follower of Jesus Christ,
I tell them if they're lucidat the time of death, you will hear
your name being called.
And you'll get a personalescort from this realm into the next
(27:03):
realm.
It's Psalm 23, where you knowthy rod and thy staff comfort me,
and you know God will take youacross that threshold.
And I'm friends with anotherpastor in our church.
I'm on a pastoral staff of a church.
And one of those has been with300 people, Christians, who are lucid
(27:26):
at the time they die.
He says in every single case,they say I have to say goodbye.
He's telling me it's time.
And then they go, they heartheir name and they cross that threshold
and they go from the realm ofthe universe with its space time
dimensions, into a completelydifferent dimensional realm to be
(27:46):
with Jesus Christ and to bewith all the dead in Christ that
have preceded them.
And in every case, they'll bewelcomed by all these people congratulating
them on their life.
Now, the same pastor told mehe's also had experiences with people
that were denying God andwanted nothing to do with God.
(28:10):
He says when they're loose atthe time of death, they're screaming
obscenities at God andrejoicing that they get to go to
hell.
I mean, I tell people that Godgives you a choice where to spend
eternity.
You can spend eternity withhim or eternity without Him.
If you want nothing to do withGod, he's got a place for you.
(28:33):
But if you want to spendeternity with God, he's got a place
for you.
But in both cases, the placehas got nothing to do with his universe.
You know, when the universefulfills its purpose that God is
intended for, he'll replacehis universe with a brand new realm.
And so as he spoke theuniverse into existence, he'll speak
(28:54):
it out of existence.
And the Bible tells us whenthat happens, both heaven and hell
survive, which means they'renot part of the dimensional realm
of our universe.
They're beyond.
So profound, so absolutely profound.
Dr.
Hugh Ross, this has been oneof my favorite conversations of my
life.
I feel like it was two decades waiting.
(29:16):
I tried desperately not to cutyou off because there was just so
much wisdom in everything thatyou said.
I cannot thank you enough onbehalf of the entire channel.
I know that you havereasons.org you have so many books.
Where can people find out more?
I'd love to send people, butwhere do you think is the best place
to find your resources?
(29:37):
Well, reasons.org, they'llfind tens of thousands of articles
and thousands of video clips.
But you mentioned my books earlier.
People can get free chaptersof my books by Simply going to reasons.orgross.
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