September 19, 2023 • 30 mins
Feliciano School of Business faculty members in the department of Information Management and Business Analytics, Dr. Mahmoud ElHussini and Dr. George Elias discuss issues and problems being faced by business professionals. On this podcast, they discuss the use of mentors, coaches, and consultants to accelerate your career and business. Dr. Moe and Dr. George breakdown issues and problems being encountered by entrepreneurs, executives, and all levels of managers.
Co-Hosts Background:
Mahmoud (Moe) Elhussini, MS, MBA, DBA, is an Instructor Specialist at Montclair State University. He is also the president and founder of The Growth Coach Allentown - Somerville. A consulting and business coaching company. Moe has worked in data & operations management for over a decade. He then switched to business consulting, helping companies build ERP and customer interface systems. After that he transitioned into international business development, helping companies manage their internal organic growth or through mergers and strategic alliances. Moe has published a couple of handbooks, one on emotional intelligence and another on servant leadership. He is currently working on a third that revolves around overcoming sales objections. Moe has a BA in Biology from Rutgers University, an MBA in Global Management, and MS in Information Management, and a DBA in Geopolitics and Strategy. At Montclair University, Moe is part of the Information Management and Business Analytics Department. He teaches Business Decision Making, Operations Management, and Statistics in Business courses.
George Elias, Ph.D., PMP is Chief Systems Engineer for Space and Airborne Systems leading initiatives in integrated spectrum management and mission avionics at L3Harris Technologies. Additionally, Dr. Elias is as an adjunct professor at Montclair State University’s department of information management & business analytics where he teaches business operations and statistics. Dr. Elias is experienced in leading the development and production of complex hardware and software system solutions including: electronic warfare systems, communication systems, and space systems. Previously, Dr. Elias served as the Director of Capture Excellence & Business Development Operations for the Electronic Warfare Sector. As an L3Harris Technologies Certified Enterprise Capture Lead, Dr. Elias was responsible for directing large, complex pursuits across the enterprise. In addition to systems engineering and business development, Dr. Elias has held roles in finance, quality assurance, operations/manufacturing, modeling and simulation, project engineering, program management, and Internal Research and Development (IRAD). Dr. Elias has a Doctorate in Systems Engineering, a Masters Certificate in Project Management, and a Masters in Computer Science from Stevens Institute of Technology. Additionally, Dr. Elias has a Bachelors in Computer Information Systems from Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey & New Jersey Institute of Technology. Finally, Dr. Elias has a Mini-MBA from Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome back everyone .
To Back to Basics.
I am Maui Hussaini and I'm herewith my friend, george Elias.
How are you, george?
How you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Doing great Maui.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Glad to hear that, buddy, we're going okay, weekend
going okay.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yeah yeah, work's been busy, ready for Monday.
It's a really nice Sunday.
After you're over here, I seeyou're swinging your back yard.
So ready for a podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Sounds good, buddy.
Glad to hear that.
What do you think?
Today, george, we talk aboutthree areas Mentoring, business
mentoring, coaching andconsulting.
Let's talk about where theyoverlap, if any, and define them
(01:02):
, maybe with the objective ofpointing out how they can be
used, what use a business owneror a business can get out of
each one of them.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
So I think that's a great idea.
But you know, let's just kickthis off a little bit.
Maybe we're just like talkingabout what they are.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
So I'll tell you.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
From my perspective, I've known about mentoring for a
very, very long time, evenbefore starting school or
starting business.
In school I was always toldit's important to have good
mentors and seek mentors, and Ithink I know what consultants
(01:46):
are.
But this whole idea of businesscoaches is relatively new for
me and I know you do coachingMaybe help us out with what is
coaching.
When would somebody need one?
What would they expect to getout of coach?
(02:08):
So we can maybe start theconversation there.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Sure, sure, sure.
And what to get out of it?
It's a good question, what toget out of?
It could take a day to answer,right, but let's use a specific
example.
Try to define it in generalterms.
When I work with my clientsGeorge and coaching I think of
it in a way that we're workingon changing their mindset or
(02:34):
thinking process, and I'll giveyou an example why I say that.
All of us, in general, studiesshow that we go through between
somewhere 60 and 75,000 thoughtsthrough our mind every day.
Right, a lot, a lot.
And our mind can processsomewhere between two and four
(02:58):
thoughts at once, depending onyour state of mind.
Now, I tend to believe and thisis my own personal opinion, I
did not read this in any studyor anything, but I tend to
believe that people that numberbetween two and four thoughts
can maybe go down to zero ifsomeone tries to make a decision
when they're too happy or tooangry, right?
(03:20):
I tend to believe that the moreyou are in control of your
emotion, that you will make amore logical, sound decision.
So I also believe that emotionscan lead to a thought or a
thought could lead to an emotion, but either way, that thought
or that emotion leads to abehavior, right, an action, and
(03:45):
what people will see and bypeople I mean your client, your
customer what they will see isthat behavior, so what they may
not see what you're thinking orwhat emotion you may not show
your emotion, but they willdefinitely see how you behave.
So that's what I try to take myclients through a process to
make them, to show them what arethose blind spots in their
(04:09):
personality or in their day today business that can lead to a
thought based upon amisconception, misjudgment,
misinterpretation of a situationright.
Walk through through thatprocess so that they can better
assess what goes through theirmind and, as a result, they can
behave in a more controlledmanner.
(04:31):
I'm going to give it back toyou in a minute, but I'm just
trying to wrap up, like all themain points that I have in mind,
to answer your question.
I think how we act right Basedupon is based upon our
experiences, based upon ourpersonality, our genetics, our
(04:52):
environment.
There's a lot that goes intowhat triggers our behavior.
So I try to look at thatoverall picture to help my
client better understandthemselves as a coach, so that
whatever it is that we work oncan be applied in any line of
business that they're in.
(05:13):
So I know it's a long answer.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
I'm absorbing that a little bit.
I think it's interesting thatyou talk about mindset and kind
of cognition and the crosssection of emotions, right?
So I think, like you said,happy or upset.
(05:44):
I think also there's otheremotions that might affect your
ability to make good decisions,like if you feel anxiety or some
sort about being rushed orabout something important, right
, Like you know.
So you might start being afraid, like you know, I'm afraid I'm
(06:07):
going to miss out, or you know,I think that I think humans and
business people are emotionalbeings.
So I think it's veryinteresting that you talk about
emotions.
Now, Do you try to get them toremove emotion, or is it more
(06:33):
like harnessing the emotion?
I'm wondering.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
I think it's harnessing.
Look, George, I tend to believethere's two kinds of realities
our self-reality, how weperceive ourselves, and our work
or business reality, right,Like what is it?
The environment that we'reworking on.
Within those two realities,there are I don't want to say
good and bad.
(07:00):
I want to say there'stendencies.
We have tendencies that lead tous, for example, to be
motivated in what we do or kindof like what you said, to have
what we call like a bad day,right, Like a dominant fear,
something that happens thatleads to us having a bad
experience or a bad day.
(07:20):
So I think those emotions Idon't want to say it, we're
human, right, we're all likehumans, are very emotional
animals we have we have goodemotions, we have bad emotions,
we have strong emotions, weakemotions.
So I don't really think it'smore about eliminating it or
pushing it way, way, way deep,deep, deep down.
(07:41):
I just think it's, like I said,harnessing it, controlling it
to use it in the right way,right?
Some people like to be to showemotions that they love somebody
or they like to be loved.
There's nothing wrong with it.
Some other people like a goodchallenge, a good risk.
We're not going to stop thatright, but knowing, for example,
people that like to havesomeone with a dominant
(08:01):
personality, that likes to takea risk.
Yes, exactly like what you saidharness it, take a risk, but to
a certain limit.
Don't take too many risks whereyou lose control of the
situation.
People that like to share theiremotions, share it in a good,
healthy way, but not to anextent where the other person
becomes uncomfortable.
(08:22):
Make sense.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
No, I think that's great.
So when should somebody seekout a coach?
What does that look like?
Trying to identify that, hey,I'm in a situation where I could
benefit from coaching and or Ireally need coaching, right?
(08:48):
What are those signs thatsomebody would see that they
should seek out a coach?
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Let me answer you this question with a question,
george, if you I think of acoach, different from a
consultant, which we can talkabout later a coach, like I said
, helps you so that you'reactually doing everything right.
I'm giving guidance, I'm givinglike little aha moments, light
bulb moments, but you actuallydo all the work right To
(09:17):
self-improve continuously.
If we use, if we compare thisto a coach at a gym, where you
go to the gym and you tell thecoach, coach, I want to feel
better, feel good about myself,I want to be healthy, right and
the coach tells you things to doand you do them, is there any
point in your life where youthink you don't need to go to
(09:40):
the gym or that you don't thinkyou could use a coach at a gym
to train you, a trainer?
Speaker 2 (09:54):
I think it depends, so I'll compare it.
Let's say, you know, whereasyou know just general fitness at
the gym or even like a runnerright.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
I'll say a runner.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
So I'll say it depends on the level that you'd
want to achieve.
If you're a runner and you, youknow you run on a consistent
basis and you even have someskills where you can even
self-coach yourself, yes, right,where you can recognize that
you need I don't know, I'll justmake it up either more
(10:34):
endurance or more speed ordifferent stride or cadence.
You can work on your runningyourself.
But I do recognize that, assomeone that runs and trains,
sometimes you may hit a plateauand you might want to seek
somebody else that has expertisethat might see your running
form and give you suggestions tomake better results.
(10:57):
Or if you're at the gym andyou're plateauing and you're not
like exactly not feeling yourteam it might make sense to get
a trainer.
So I exactly in that sense, Icould see that.
So is it?
Is it that a business person issaying to themselves I might be
hitting a plateau or I may notbe doing as good as I want, and
(11:19):
that's why you'd go for a coach?
Speaker 1 (11:21):
There you go Exactly.
That's kind of like we weremeeting at the intersection that
I wanted us to meet at.
It's that you're hitting aplateau.
You're you're getting tooconfident or too confident what
you're doing Right.
So you need that little shakeup, you know that little nudge
to see, like I said before,questioning not questioning, but
doing a quick self discovery.
(11:41):
Or, like you said, if you're arunner and everything is going
great, right, you just do aquick stop in the middle, check
in with somebody to make surethere's no blind spots, there's
nothing that you're missing orsomething that can maybe make
you do what you're doing betterRight, that would be it Meaning.
It's not something that youwould necessarily need for the
(12:03):
rest of your life, as long asyou run or as long as you run
your business right, run at agym or run your business, but
every now and then I don't thinkit would hurt where you check
in with somebody to just makesure you're not missing anything
.
There's nothing out there thatcan make you do what you're
doing in a more efficient oreffective manner right, doing
(12:24):
more with less resources, withless energy, so that you can
redirect your focus and yourenergy into other things.
So, to answer your originalquestion, I think you need a
coach, or people might considerusing a coach at any point in
their career just to do a quickevaluation of what they're doing
(12:45):
right now.
They might sit with the coachand tell them you know what?
Everything is great.
I sit with clients where wedon't work together.
I tell them you don't need menow, or you don't need me yet.
Or with your line of business,I don't think I can help you,
right?
So there's times where you dosit with a client.
Maybe they need your help andmaybe they don't.
You don't create a situation tocreate a need.
(13:09):
They need help or they do not,right?
So some people do, some do not.
But I don't think it ever hurtsto just have a quick
consultation and I'm not sayingthis, you know to come to me
with any coach that you have andbe at a life coach, a business
coach, a financial coach,whatever coach it may be.
It does not hurt to just take aquick pause to reach out, have
(13:31):
a dialogue, a conversation, andleave from it knowing that, okay
, you know what I'm good at thispoint.
Or, yeah, maybe I should thinkabout doing ABC.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
So so what's interesting?
And you know, I want to bringin the whole mentor thing now,
right, I think that anotheroption for some people is
mentoring and you know, to methere's the classical mentoring
where you know you're trying tofind a mentor that is maybe
(14:04):
ahead of you and maybe career orbusiness or position, where
they're in a position to whereyou can learn from how they got,
from their experience and wherethey went.
Maybe that mentor can help youwith you know get exposure, or
you know get invited to thingsthat you normally wouldn't, or
(14:27):
you know kind of speak sometruth into your situation and
help encourage you or discourageyou.
You know, when appropriate.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
And what?
Speaker 2 (14:36):
I mean by that is sometimes.
You know, I mentor a number ofearlier and career individuals
and students and sometimes theyhave concepts about the
situation or concepts aboutthemselves and their path and
where they're at and I might,depending on it.
I try not to give direct advice, but I try to help them, like
(14:59):
you said.
You know we're saying withcoaching I help them, try to
think through their situation.
Sometimes that means askingthem further questions or even
playing a little devil'sadvocate.
So you think you're ready forthat position.
What have you done to get readyor what makes you think that
right?
But, unlike coaching, I'veencouraged people to always seek
(15:25):
out mentors, whether they'remore formal or even peer mentors
.
So I'll give you an example.
We talked about getting a newcareer.
I believe that if you come intoa new organization, you should
be trying to seek out peermentors so they can show you the
ropes a bit, that already knowhow things work, and you should
(15:49):
be seeking out more seniormentors that you can learn about
the organization that you're in.
So I think having one or morementors is a healthy thing for
everybody.
What do you think about that?
Speaker 1 (16:07):
No, I was going to ask you.
I agree with you, but I want toask you, george.
So for us to separate a coachfrom a mentor, how would you we
kind of like define the coach?
How would you define then thementor?
What would the mentor be?
And you can even use the gymanalogy or just your own analogy
.
So if we have that coach at thegym, what would that mentor be?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Yeah, so to me the mentor is maybe somebody at the
gym that you know of fitnesslevel and some aspect is better
than you.
You might just walk up to say,hey, could you give me some
advice?
I noticed you do the arm curlsthis way.
Could you show me why you'redoing that?
(16:53):
And a lot of people will giveyou that free advice.
Yeah, I do it this way becauseof such and such.
Or they may say, hey, that's amore advanced type thing.
You work up to it this way, soa lot of people are willing to
give free advice.
I mentioned running.
I think a mentor in runningmight be somebody that you know
(17:18):
maybe runs faster or furtherthan you and you would like to
have the opportunity.
They even say, hey, you mighttrain me one day.
Or you might ask them hey, howdid you build up to that speed?
And I do that often.
There's a guy at work that is areally great runner and I asked
(17:39):
him how did he work up to speed?
He says, oh, interval training.
And he explained to me howhe'll do running intervals with
faster and faster paces mixed inwith slower pace, and it works.
You start training your body tomove a little faster.
So to me that's more the mentor, where the coach is somebody
(18:02):
that might not be the runner butknows how to tell you how to
run Right and can analyze it.
They may not be in yourbusiness and coming outside, but
they understand the tools andthe dynamics and how to act.
And I think a little bitdifferent than a mentor.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
So the yes, I agree.
So the mentor is someone thathas the experience in your field
of interest, whatever it isthat you need the mentor for,
right, that it will be safe tosay so.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Yeah, I would say that I mean.
There's other aspects of whatmakes a good mentor that we can
talk about one day.
But I typically they would havesome aspect of what you want to
be.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Yes.
Now let's add a third angle tothis triangle Consulting.
How I see the consultant rightas someone, george versus the
coach.
(19:12):
The consultant is more hands on, right.
So, different than the mentoror the coach, the consultant
will come look at your businessright, they're an expert in your
business.
They look at what you're doing.
For example, your sales arestaggering or your sales seem as
underperforming.
So they come in to actually beinvolved in the day-to-day
(19:33):
operations right, so they'remore hands on.
How do you view a consultantversus a mentor or a coach?
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah, so you know, this is where, like I think, the
gym or running analogy breaksdown a little bit, because, yes
a business like that is is ateam sport.
Right, it's not, if notnecessarily just an individual,
so there's some break down there.
But I would say a consultant issomebody where you have a
(20:10):
recognized limit or problem inyour business or a lack of
something and you're bringingthem in to solve it for you.
Right, I need some HRdiscipline or HR policies or
procedures, or I need a HRinformation solution.
(20:33):
Right, I would bring in an HRconsultant or IT consultant,
depending on what the exactissue is to help me solve that
in my business.
And that could look like manyways.
Right, it could be an accountingissue, it could be business
process issue, it could be moralissue.
(20:53):
Right, there's a lot of.
But to me, the consultant comeswith the solution and isn't
just talking to you about howyou solve the problem.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Exactly, exactly, exactly, and I lost my train of
thought.
What was I going to say?
Yes, he comes with a specificsolution and, like you said is,
I think he's much closer to youin the day-to-day operation than
the coach or mentor would be.
(21:23):
What are go ahead?
What were you going to say?
Speaker 2 (21:30):
No, I think they'll close to you in the solution
that they're providing.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Mostly because they're responsible for the
implementation.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
There you go.
Yep, that's correct, yes, yes,yes, have you had any good
mentoring or consultingexperiences at work in your
career that you can share sopeople can get an idea of an
example of what you know, a realmentoring scenario that took
(22:05):
place?
Speaker 2 (22:07):
So, um, so I'll.
I'll kind of like let me talkabout consultants first.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
I not all consultants but at least my experience with
consultants has been thatthere's a set of solutions that
they're used to bring in, make agood effort in certain types of
solutions.
So when you hire a consultant tosolve your issue, you should
(22:42):
probably interview multiplecompeting solutions, because
when you hire a consultant,they're going to, they're going
to want to bring on the type ofsolution that they're used to.
So I'll I'll like, for instance, an IT consultant.
If you know, if you need, youknow an ERP system, right
(23:06):
brought into your businessbecause you're growing and now
you're realizing you need, youknow a full suite of, you know a
tool to run it, so you need anERP system.
So if you hire a consultingfirm to help you with that, most
likely they're going to comewith their solution that they
(23:28):
like to implement.
So you know it goes hand inhand.
So you need to talk to themabout what they're going to do
and what their plans are duringan interviewing process.
So, because the solution willdepend on who you pick, in a
sense, right, because you havecertain number T, so you really
(23:49):
need to vet them very well priorto hiring them.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
So you don't want kind of like that like you don't
want that like kind of likecookie cutter approach where you
know what, we just have onetemplate and we apply it, no
matter what you want, to makesure that they are really
tailoring the solution to yourneeds.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
I think that what happens is you're buying a
solution when you hire theconsultant to a certain extent,
so you really need to understandhow they work and what their
plans are prior to bringing themin, because once they're in
house, you know things canhappen that maybe you didn't
(24:29):
expect and I've seen a lot ofconsulting go wrong because the
client didn't understand whatthey were signing up for and
their misunderstandings.
So I think you know beingupfront about your business and
what you, what's acceptable andnot acceptable, and getting from
the consultant their plan soyou can vet it before they start
(24:51):
is very important.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
You know what, george ?
Hold on, because you justbought up a really, really
interesting point which I talkabout sometimes in my classes,
right?
So I hire you as a consultantto come help me do something.
Right?
You start with me and it turnsout that what you're doing as my
consultant is not solving theproblem.
(25:17):
Is that your fault as aconsultant, that you didn't ask
the right questions to figureout what I need?
Or is it my fault that I didn'texplain myself well to you from
the beginning?
Do you see what I mean?
So, at the end, who does thisapply to?
That where the customer isalways right, no matter what?
Or the fact that I wasincompetent to explain myself
(25:40):
means that you should have askedmore questions?
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Yeah.
So I hate to say it this waybecause I really like the
customer's always right aspectof it.
But I would say you're bothprobably culpable.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Agreed.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
So this is the way I see things.
Really speaking, the person whohas the greater knowledge is
probably more responsible.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
So right.
Yes, now here's the issue theconsultant has more knowledge
about their solution, but youlikely have more knowledge about
your business.
About the problem, about theproblem.
So, since you didn't both havea good conversation, that's not
(26:26):
good, right?
And a warning sign to me is, ifa consultant comes to me and
all they want to talk about istheir solution and they don't
want to know about my problem,that's a warning sign that I'm
going to get a solution that mayor may not solve my problem.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Yeah, that's why I think the takeaway from what you
just said and I agree with that, I know we're not going to
probably run out of time, we cancontinue talking about
mentoring later, but a key, very, very, very, very important
takeaway from this is that youneed to always relate to the
client, understand their need,ask the questions, Just like you
said.
The client knows the problem,but it's up to you to dig out
(27:06):
those answers and figure out theproblem.
So you need to ask all thequestions that you can so that
you really do figure out whatthe problem is before you
advance the tailored solution.
Right, figure out what thatneed is what the problem is
first, and it's on you, mrConsultant, to ask as many
questions as need be to figureout, to get a full picture of
(27:28):
what the problem is, before youcommit to anything.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah, and that's very different than mentoring right,
I do think that you shouldinterview before you.
Really, if you're going to do afull formal mentor exercise, you
really should have almost aninterview with that mentor
before you jump in and give themthat piece of you.
(27:51):
But I will say you asked abouta positive mentoring experience.
I have had some.
I've had them at work a lot.
I've had them in school withprofessors and teachers.
I've had some really excellentrelationships like that.
But I will say the best onesI've had are the ones that have
(28:16):
helped me think through issueswhere I was emotionally blind to
something.
Like you said, your emotions canstop you from thinking about
things straight, and sometimesemotions like fear or insecurity
or even arrogance can cloudyour thinking, and I think the
(28:46):
best mentors I've had havereally helped me think through
where I need to go.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yes, and to add on to that one last piece before we
wrap up or I'll give it back toyou it is sometimes also a good
idea to get a mentor that hassomewhat of a different
personality than you.
So, just like what you said,they give you that different
perspective that you don't see,or they see things from a
different lens.
So both of you together, youcompliment each other.
(29:16):
I think that helps too.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
So I really like that .
I know we're running out oftime, but how about we pick up
on mentoring specifically next?
Speaker 1 (29:30):
time.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Let's just think through how do you find a good,
compatible mentor thing for?
Speaker 1 (29:38):
that nature and what makes a good mentor.
Yeah, I think I would love tohear more about your end,
because you've had a lot ofexperience in that area, a lot
of interactions in it, so Ithink it'll benefit the listener
to hear more about it.
So, yeah, let's definitely dothat, george.
Great conversation, as always,man.
Thanks for sharing yourexperiences and your perspective
(30:01):
on this.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Same here, mo, I really respect your opinion and
what you're doing with coachingI think it's a really good thing
.
Thank you.
No, awesome, so listen.
Thank you all for listening tothis episode of Back to Basics
on the Business Edge, brought toyou by Feliciano School of
Business at Montclair StateUniversity.
(30:27):
We hope you enjoyed thispodcast and welcome any feedback
you have for us, includingsuggestions for future topics.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Thank you, george, thank you to all the listeners
and see you next time on theBack to Basics podcast.
Take care, george.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Thank you, sir, take care, bye, bye.
Welcome back everyone .
To Back to Basics.
I am Maui Hussaini and I'm herewith my friend, george Elias.
How are you, george?
How you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Doing great Maui.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Glad to hear that, buddy, we're going okay, weekend
going okay.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yeah yeah, work's been busy, ready for Monday.
It's a really nice Sunday.
After you're over here, I seeyou're swinging your back yard.
So ready for a podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Sounds good, buddy.
Glad to hear that.
What do you think?
Today, george, we talk aboutthree areas Mentoring, business
mentoring, coaching andconsulting.
Let's talk about where theyoverlap, if any, and define them
(01:02):
, maybe with the objective ofpointing out how they can be
used, what use a business owneror a business can get out of
each one of them.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
So I think that's a great idea.
But you know, let's just kickthis off a little bit.
Maybe we're just like talkingabout what they are.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
So I'll tell you.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
From my perspective, I've known about mentoring for a
very, very long time, evenbefore starting school or
starting business.
In school I was always toldit's important to have good
mentors and seek mentors, and Ithink I know what consultants
(01:46):
are.
But this whole idea of businesscoaches is relatively new for
me and I know you do coachingMaybe help us out with what is
coaching.
When would somebody need one?
What would they expect to getout of coach?
(02:08):
So we can maybe start theconversation there.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Sure, sure, sure.
And what to get out of it?
It's a good question, what toget out of?
It could take a day to answer,right, but let's use a specific
example.
Try to define it in generalterms.
When I work with my clientsGeorge and coaching I think of
it in a way that we're workingon changing their mindset or
(02:34):
thinking process, and I'll giveyou an example why I say that.
All of us, in general, studiesshow that we go through between
somewhere 60 and 75,000 thoughtsthrough our mind every day.
Right, a lot, a lot.
And our mind can processsomewhere between two and four
(02:58):
thoughts at once, depending onyour state of mind.
Now, I tend to believe and thisis my own personal opinion, I
did not read this in any studyor anything, but I tend to
believe that people that numberbetween two and four thoughts
can maybe go down to zero ifsomeone tries to make a decision
when they're too happy or tooangry, right?
(03:20):
I tend to believe that the moreyou are in control of your
emotion, that you will make amore logical, sound decision.
So I also believe that emotionscan lead to a thought or a
thought could lead to an emotion, but either way, that thought
or that emotion leads to abehavior, right, an action, and
(03:45):
what people will see and bypeople I mean your client, your
customer what they will see isthat behavior, so what they may
not see what you're thinking orwhat emotion you may not show
your emotion, but they willdefinitely see how you behave.
So that's what I try to take myclients through a process to
make them, to show them what arethose blind spots in their
(04:09):
personality or in their day today business that can lead to a
thought based upon amisconception, misjudgment,
misinterpretation of a situationright.
Walk through through thatprocess so that they can better
assess what goes through theirmind and, as a result, they can
behave in a more controlledmanner.
(04:31):
I'm going to give it back toyou in a minute, but I'm just
trying to wrap up, like all themain points that I have in mind,
to answer your question.
I think how we act right Basedupon is based upon our
experiences, based upon ourpersonality, our genetics, our
(04:52):
environment.
There's a lot that goes intowhat triggers our behavior.
So I try to look at thatoverall picture to help my
client better understandthemselves as a coach, so that
whatever it is that we work oncan be applied in any line of
business that they're in.
(05:13):
So I know it's a long answer.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
I'm absorbing that a little bit.
I think it's interesting thatyou talk about mindset and kind
of cognition and the crosssection of emotions, right?
So I think, like you said,happy or upset.
(05:44):
I think also there's otheremotions that might affect your
ability to make good decisions,like if you feel anxiety or some
sort about being rushed orabout something important, right
, Like you know.
So you might start being afraid, like you know, I'm afraid I'm
(06:07):
going to miss out, or you know,I think that I think humans and
business people are emotionalbeings.
So I think it's veryinteresting that you talk about
emotions.
Now, Do you try to get them toremove emotion, or is it more
(06:33):
like harnessing the emotion?
I'm wondering.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
I think it's harnessing.
Look, George, I tend to believethere's two kinds of realities
our self-reality, how weperceive ourselves, and our work
or business reality, right,Like what is it?
The environment that we'reworking on.
Within those two realities,there are I don't want to say
good and bad.
(07:00):
I want to say there'stendencies.
We have tendencies that lead tous, for example, to be
motivated in what we do or kindof like what you said, to have
what we call like a bad day,right, Like a dominant fear,
something that happens thatleads to us having a bad
experience or a bad day.
(07:20):
So I think those emotions Idon't want to say it, we're
human, right, we're all likehumans, are very emotional
animals we have we have goodemotions, we have bad emotions,
we have strong emotions, weakemotions.
So I don't really think it'smore about eliminating it or
pushing it way, way, way deep,deep, deep down.
(07:41):
I just think it's, like I said,harnessing it, controlling it
to use it in the right way,right?
Some people like to be to showemotions that they love somebody
or they like to be loved.
There's nothing wrong with it.
Some other people like a goodchallenge, a good risk.
We're not going to stop thatright, but knowing, for example,
people that like to havesomeone with a dominant
(08:01):
personality, that likes to takea risk.
Yes, exactly like what you saidharness it, take a risk, but to
a certain limit.
Don't take too many risks whereyou lose control of the
situation.
People that like to share theiremotions, share it in a good,
healthy way, but not to anextent where the other person
becomes uncomfortable.
(08:22):
Make sense.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
No, I think that's great.
So when should somebody seekout a coach?
What does that look like?
Trying to identify that, hey,I'm in a situation where I could
benefit from coaching and or Ireally need coaching, right?
(08:48):
What are those signs thatsomebody would see that they
should seek out a coach?
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Let me answer you this question with a question,
george, if you I think of acoach, different from a
consultant, which we can talkabout later a coach, like I said
, helps you so that you'reactually doing everything right.
I'm giving guidance, I'm givinglike little aha moments, light
bulb moments, but you actuallydo all the work right To
(09:17):
self-improve continuously.
If we use, if we compare thisto a coach at a gym, where you
go to the gym and you tell thecoach, coach, I want to feel
better, feel good about myself,I want to be healthy, right and
the coach tells you things to doand you do them, is there any
point in your life where youthink you don't need to go to
(09:40):
the gym or that you don't thinkyou could use a coach at a gym
to train you, a trainer?
Speaker 2 (09:54):
I think it depends, so I'll compare it.
Let's say, you know, whereasyou know just general fitness at
the gym or even like a runnerright.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
I'll say a runner.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
So I'll say it depends on the level that you'd
want to achieve.
If you're a runner and you, youknow you run on a consistent
basis and you even have someskills where you can even
self-coach yourself, yes, right,where you can recognize that
you need I don't know, I'll justmake it up either more
(10:34):
endurance or more speed ordifferent stride or cadence.
You can work on your runningyourself.
But I do recognize that, assomeone that runs and trains,
sometimes you may hit a plateauand you might want to seek
somebody else that has expertisethat might see your running
form and give you suggestions tomake better results.
(10:57):
Or if you're at the gym andyou're plateauing and you're not
like exactly not feeling yourteam it might make sense to get
a trainer.
So I exactly in that sense, Icould see that.
So is it?
Is it that a business person issaying to themselves I might be
hitting a plateau or I may notbe doing as good as I want, and
(11:19):
that's why you'd go for a coach?
Speaker 1 (11:21):
There you go Exactly.
That's kind of like we weremeeting at the intersection that
I wanted us to meet at.
It's that you're hitting aplateau.
You're you're getting tooconfident or too confident what
you're doing Right.
So you need that little shakeup, you know that little nudge
to see, like I said before,questioning not questioning, but
doing a quick self discovery.
(11:41):
Or, like you said, if you're arunner and everything is going
great, right, you just do aquick stop in the middle, check
in with somebody to make surethere's no blind spots, there's
nothing that you're missing orsomething that can maybe make
you do what you're doing betterRight, that would be it Meaning.
It's not something that youwould necessarily need for the
(12:03):
rest of your life, as long asyou run or as long as you run
your business right, run at agym or run your business, but
every now and then I don't thinkit would hurt where you check
in with somebody to just makesure you're not missing anything
.
There's nothing out there thatcan make you do what you're
doing in a more efficient oreffective manner right, doing
(12:24):
more with less resources, withless energy, so that you can
redirect your focus and yourenergy into other things.
So, to answer your originalquestion, I think you need a
coach, or people might considerusing a coach at any point in
their career just to do a quickevaluation of what they're doing
(12:45):
right now.
They might sit with the coachand tell them you know what?
Everything is great.
I sit with clients where wedon't work together.
I tell them you don't need menow, or you don't need me yet.
Or with your line of business,I don't think I can help you,
right?
So there's times where you dosit with a client.
Maybe they need your help andmaybe they don't.
You don't create a situation tocreate a need.
(13:09):
They need help or they do not,right?
So some people do, some do not.
But I don't think it ever hurtsto just have a quick
consultation and I'm not sayingthis, you know to come to me
with any coach that you have andbe at a life coach, a business
coach, a financial coach,whatever coach it may be.
It does not hurt to just take aquick pause to reach out, have
(13:31):
a dialogue, a conversation, andleave from it knowing that, okay
, you know what I'm good at thispoint.
Or, yeah, maybe I should thinkabout doing ABC.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
So so what's interesting?
And you know, I want to bringin the whole mentor thing now,
right, I think that anotheroption for some people is
mentoring and you know, to methere's the classical mentoring
where you know you're trying tofind a mentor that is maybe
(14:04):
ahead of you and maybe career orbusiness or position, where
they're in a position to whereyou can learn from how they got,
from their experience and wherethey went.
Maybe that mentor can help youwith you know get exposure, or
you know get invited to thingsthat you normally wouldn't, or
(14:27):
you know kind of speak sometruth into your situation and
help encourage you or discourageyou.
You know, when appropriate.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
And what?
Speaker 2 (14:36):
I mean by that is sometimes.
You know, I mentor a number ofearlier and career individuals
and students and sometimes theyhave concepts about the
situation or concepts aboutthemselves and their path and
where they're at and I might,depending on it.
I try not to give direct advice, but I try to help them, like
(14:59):
you said.
You know we're saying withcoaching I help them, try to
think through their situation.
Sometimes that means askingthem further questions or even
playing a little devil'sadvocate.
So you think you're ready forthat position.
What have you done to get readyor what makes you think that
right?
But, unlike coaching, I'veencouraged people to always seek
(15:25):
out mentors, whether they'remore formal or even peer mentors
.
So I'll give you an example.
We talked about getting a newcareer.
I believe that if you come intoa new organization, you should
be trying to seek out peermentors so they can show you the
ropes a bit, that already knowhow things work, and you should
(15:49):
be seeking out more seniormentors that you can learn about
the organization that you're in.
So I think having one or morementors is a healthy thing for
everybody.
What do you think about that?
Speaker 1 (16:07):
No, I was going to ask you.
I agree with you, but I want toask you, george.
So for us to separate a coachfrom a mentor, how would you we
kind of like define the coach?
How would you define then thementor?
What would the mentor be?
And you can even use the gymanalogy or just your own analogy
.
So if we have that coach at thegym, what would that mentor be?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Yeah, so to me the mentor is maybe somebody at the
gym that you know of fitnesslevel and some aspect is better
than you.
You might just walk up to say,hey, could you give me some
advice?
I noticed you do the arm curlsthis way.
Could you show me why you'redoing that?
(16:53):
And a lot of people will giveyou that free advice.
Yeah, I do it this way becauseof such and such.
Or they may say, hey, that's amore advanced type thing.
You work up to it this way, soa lot of people are willing to
give free advice.
I mentioned running.
I think a mentor in runningmight be somebody that you know
(17:18):
maybe runs faster or furtherthan you and you would like to
have the opportunity.
They even say, hey, you mighttrain me one day.
Or you might ask them hey, howdid you build up to that speed?
And I do that often.
There's a guy at work that is areally great runner and I asked
(17:39):
him how did he work up to speed?
He says, oh, interval training.
And he explained to me howhe'll do running intervals with
faster and faster paces mixed inwith slower pace, and it works.
You start training your body tomove a little faster.
So to me that's more the mentor, where the coach is somebody
(18:02):
that might not be the runner butknows how to tell you how to
run Right and can analyze it.
They may not be in yourbusiness and coming outside, but
they understand the tools andthe dynamics and how to act.
And I think a little bitdifferent than a mentor.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
So the yes, I agree.
So the mentor is someone thathas the experience in your field
of interest, whatever it isthat you need the mentor for,
right, that it will be safe tosay so.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Yeah, I would say that I mean.
There's other aspects of whatmakes a good mentor that we can
talk about one day.
But I typically they would havesome aspect of what you want to
be.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Yes.
Now let's add a third angle tothis triangle Consulting.
How I see the consultant rightas someone, george versus the
coach.
(19:12):
The consultant is more hands on, right.
So, different than the mentoror the coach, the consultant
will come look at your businessright, they're an expert in your
business.
They look at what you're doing.
For example, your sales arestaggering or your sales seem as
underperforming.
So they come in to actually beinvolved in the day-to-day
(19:33):
operations right, so they'remore hands on.
How do you view a consultantversus a mentor or a coach?
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah, so you know, this is where, like I think, the
gym or running analogy breaksdown a little bit, because, yes
a business like that is is ateam sport.
Right, it's not, if notnecessarily just an individual,
so there's some break down there.
But I would say a consultant issomebody where you have a
(20:10):
recognized limit or problem inyour business or a lack of
something and you're bringingthem in to solve it for you.
Right, I need some HRdiscipline or HR policies or
procedures, or I need a HRinformation solution.
(20:33):
Right, I would bring in an HRconsultant or IT consultant,
depending on what the exactissue is to help me solve that
in my business.
And that could look like manyways.
Right, it could be an accountingissue, it could be business
process issue, it could be moralissue.
(20:53):
Right, there's a lot of.
But to me, the consultant comeswith the solution and isn't
just talking to you about howyou solve the problem.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Exactly, exactly, exactly, and I lost my train of
thought.
What was I going to say?
Yes, he comes with a specificsolution and, like you said is,
I think he's much closer to youin the day-to-day operation than
the coach or mentor would be.
(21:23):
What are go ahead?
What were you going to say?
Speaker 2 (21:30):
No, I think they'll close to you in the solution
that they're providing.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Mostly because they're responsible for the
implementation.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
There you go.
Yep, that's correct, yes, yes,yes, have you had any good
mentoring or consultingexperiences at work in your
career that you can share sopeople can get an idea of an
example of what you know, a realmentoring scenario that took
(22:05):
place?
Speaker 2 (22:07):
So, um, so I'll.
I'll kind of like let me talkabout consultants first.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
I not all consultants but at least my experience with
consultants has been thatthere's a set of solutions that
they're used to bring in, make agood effort in certain types of
solutions.
So when you hire a consultant tosolve your issue, you should
(22:42):
probably interview multiplecompeting solutions, because
when you hire a consultant,they're going to, they're going
to want to bring on the type ofsolution that they're used to.
So I'll I'll like, for instance, an IT consultant.
If you know, if you need, youknow an ERP system, right
(23:06):
brought into your businessbecause you're growing and now
you're realizing you need, youknow a full suite of, you know a
tool to run it, so you need anERP system.
So if you hire a consultingfirm to help you with that, most
likely they're going to comewith their solution that they
(23:28):
like to implement.
So you know it goes hand inhand.
So you need to talk to themabout what they're going to do
and what their plans are duringan interviewing process.
So, because the solution willdepend on who you pick, in a
sense, right, because you havecertain number T, so you really
(23:49):
need to vet them very well priorto hiring them.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
So you don't want kind of like that like you don't
want that like kind of likecookie cutter approach where you
know what, we just have onetemplate and we apply it, no
matter what you want, to makesure that they are really
tailoring the solution to yourneeds.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
I think that what happens is you're buying a
solution when you hire theconsultant to a certain extent,
so you really need to understandhow they work and what their
plans are prior to bringing themin, because once they're in
house, you know things canhappen that maybe you didn't
(24:29):
expect and I've seen a lot ofconsulting go wrong because the
client didn't understand whatthey were signing up for and
their misunderstandings.
So I think you know beingupfront about your business and
what you, what's acceptable andnot acceptable, and getting from
the consultant their plan soyou can vet it before they start
(24:51):
is very important.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
You know what, george ?
Hold on, because you justbought up a really, really
interesting point which I talkabout sometimes in my classes,
right?
So I hire you as a consultantto come help me do something.
Right?
You start with me and it turnsout that what you're doing as my
consultant is not solving theproblem.
(25:17):
Is that your fault as aconsultant, that you didn't ask
the right questions to figureout what I need?
Or is it my fault that I didn'texplain myself well to you from
the beginning?
Do you see what I mean?
So, at the end, who does thisapply to?
That where the customer isalways right, no matter what?
Or the fact that I wasincompetent to explain myself
(25:40):
means that you should have askedmore questions?
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Yeah.
So I hate to say it this waybecause I really like the
customer's always right aspectof it.
But I would say you're bothprobably culpable.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Agreed.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
So this is the way I see things.
Really speaking, the person whohas the greater knowledge is
probably more responsible.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
So right.
Yes, now here's the issue theconsultant has more knowledge
about their solution, but youlikely have more knowledge about
your business.
About the problem, about theproblem.
So, since you didn't both havea good conversation, that's not
(26:26):
good, right?
And a warning sign to me is, ifa consultant comes to me and
all they want to talk about istheir solution and they don't
want to know about my problem,that's a warning sign that I'm
going to get a solution that mayor may not solve my problem.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Yeah, that's why I think the takeaway from what you
just said and I agree with that, I know we're not going to
probably run out of time, we cancontinue talking about
mentoring later, but a key, very, very, very, very important
takeaway from this is that youneed to always relate to the
client, understand their need,ask the questions, Just like you
said.
The client knows the problem,but it's up to you to dig out
(27:06):
those answers and figure out theproblem.
So you need to ask all thequestions that you can so that
you really do figure out whatthe problem is before you
advance the tailored solution.
Right, figure out what thatneed is what the problem is
first, and it's on you, mrConsultant, to ask as many
questions as need be to figureout, to get a full picture of
(27:28):
what the problem is, before youcommit to anything.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah, and that's very different than mentoring right,
I do think that you shouldinterview before you.
Really, if you're going to do afull formal mentor exercise, you
really should have almost aninterview with that mentor
before you jump in and give themthat piece of you.
(27:51):
But I will say you asked abouta positive mentoring experience.
I have had some.
I've had them at work a lot.
I've had them in school withprofessors and teachers.
I've had some really excellentrelationships like that.
But I will say the best onesI've had are the ones that have
(28:16):
helped me think through issueswhere I was emotionally blind to
something.
Like you said, your emotions canstop you from thinking about
things straight, and sometimesemotions like fear or insecurity
or even arrogance can cloudyour thinking, and I think the
(28:46):
best mentors I've had havereally helped me think through
where I need to go.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yes, and to add on to that one last piece before we
wrap up or I'll give it back toyou it is sometimes also a good
idea to get a mentor that hassomewhat of a different
personality than you.
So, just like what you said,they give you that different
perspective that you don't see,or they see things from a
different lens.
So both of you together, youcompliment each other.
(29:16):
I think that helps too.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
So I really like that .
I know we're running out oftime, but how about we pick up
on mentoring specifically next?
Speaker 1 (29:30):
time.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Let's just think through how do you find a good,
compatible mentor thing for?
Speaker 1 (29:38):
that nature and what makes a good mentor.
Yeah, I think I would love tohear more about your end,
because you've had a lot ofexperience in that area, a lot
of interactions in it, so Ithink it'll benefit the listener
to hear more about it.
So, yeah, let's definitely dothat, george.
Great conversation, as always,man.
Thanks for sharing yourexperiences and your perspective
(30:01):
on this.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Same here, mo, I really respect your opinion and
what you're doing with coachingI think it's a really good thing
.
Thank you.
No, awesome, so listen.
Thank you all for listening tothis episode of Back to Basics
on the Business Edge, brought toyou by Feliciano School of
Business at Montclair StateUniversity.
(30:27):
We hope you enjoyed thispodcast and welcome any feedback
you have for us, includingsuggestions for future topics.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Thank you, george, thank you to all the listeners
and see you next time on theBack to Basics podcast.
Take care, george.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Thank you, sir, take care, bye, bye.
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