January 2, 2024 • 36 mins
Feliciano School of Business faculty members in the department of Information Management and Business Analytics, Dr. Mahmoud ElHussini and Dr. George Elias discuss issues and problems being faced by business professionals. On this podcast, they again discuss what your body language says about you. Dr. Moe and Dr. George breakdown issues and problems being encountered by entrepreneurs, executives, and all levels of managers.
Co-Hosts Background:
Mahmoud (Moe) Elhussini, MS, MBA, DBA, is an Instructor Specialist at Montclair State University. He is also the president and founder of The Growth Coach Allentown - Somerville. A consulting and business coaching company. Moe has worked in data & operations management for over a decade. He then switched to business consulting, helping companies build ERP and customer interface systems. After that he transitioned into international business development, helping companies manage their internal organic growth or through mergers and strategic alliances. Moe has published a couple of handbooks, one on emotional intelligence and another on servant leadership. He is currently working on a third that revolves around overcoming sales objections. Moe has a BA in Biology from Rutgers University, an MBA in Global Management, and MS in Information Management, and a DBA in Geopolitics and Strategy. At Montclair University, Moe is part of the Information Management and Business Analytics Department. He teaches Business Decision Making, Operations Management, and Statistics in Business courses.
George Elias, Ph.D., PMP is Chief Systems Engineer for Space and Airborne Systems leading initiatives in integrated spectrum management and mission avionics at L3Harris Technologies. Additionally, Dr. Elias is as an adjunct professor at Montclair State University’s department of information management & business analytics where he teaches business operations and statistics. Dr. Elias is experienced in leading the development and production of complex hardware and software system solutions including: electronic warfare systems, communication systems, and space systems. Previously, Dr. Elias served as the Director of Capture Excellence & Business Development Operations for the Electronic Warfare Sector. As an L3Harris Technologies Certified Enterprise Capture Lead, Dr. Elias was responsible for directing large, complex pursuits across the enterprise. In addition to systems engineering and business development, Dr. Elias has held roles in finance, quality assurance, operations/manufacturing, modeling and simulation, project engineering, program management, and Internal Research and Development (IRAD). Dr. Elias has a Doctorate in Systems Engineering, a Masters Certificate in Project Management, and a Masters in Computer Science from Stevens Institute of Technology. Additionally, Dr. Elias has a Bachelors in Computer Information Systems from Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey & New Jersey Institute of Technology. Finally, Dr. Elias has a Mini-MBA from Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello everyone, welcome back to, back to Basics.
I know it's been a couple ofweeks.
I hope everyone is well.
I am Moel Hussini and I am herewith my dear, dear friend,
george Elias.
Hey, george, welcome back,buddy, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
You're doing great Mal.
How are you?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
I'm good, I'm good, I'm good wrapping up my
Christmas to-do list.
Are you done with your giftshopping?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I haven't even started.
I'm way behind this year, waybehind.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Yeah, and I think I have.
I think one more day I shouldbe done.
I started really early.
Are you off from work or areyou working the next week or two
?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Well, I'm going to try to take some time off, so at
my day job, I'll sharesomething with you.
What's?
Speaker 1 (01:00):
up.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I get about four weeks worth of vacation to you
know, and they'll even let metake five or six or whatever I
want.
There's really no limit.
All year I've taken 19 hours.
I can't believe it.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Are you kidding?
That's it, old year.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yeah, yeah, all year.
I don't know what happened, soI'm going to try to take a few
days off, but there's a user tolose it.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
No use it.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
That's just the way it goes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
All right.
So lesson learned to thelisteners don't do that.
Use your vacation days, yeah,exactly.
No one else.
Seriousness, man, you need somedowntime.
Take advantage of it.
Try to take a couple of days.
I can't believe that.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Listen, it wasn't on purpose that the year got away
from me.
I know, Next year I'll have abetter plan.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
The year does go by quick.
Last thing I'll tell you realquick.
I mean I was at Burlington theother day getting some things.
They already have Valentinestuff up.
I'm like slow down, and thenit's Easter and then it's
Memorial Day and then nextThanksgiving, anyway, anyway,
anyway, it's all good.
I remember last, last time wemet, we were talking about body
(02:14):
language.
Right, that's kind of like.
I think we had a couple ofepisodes.
We're talking about bodylanguage.
Do you want to continue withthat?
Shall we continue talking aboutbody language?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah, I think we could probably wrap up body
language here, and I think wehit body language from a few
different aspects.
Right.
Even last time we talked aboutbody language over the phone,
which I thought was aninteresting concept.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
True, true To remember that.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, right, yeah.
So what we said last time?
We said that we wanted tocontinue with body language.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
But something a little bit different, some
things that have to do with,maybe, formal events or speaking
engagement, interviews and therole that body language has, you
know, even at a networkingevent.
Right, yeah, how does that, youknow, help you be successful or
(03:16):
not?
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Nice.
You know what?
Why don't we?
Yeah, let's start with that.
Let's start with tell me yourthoughts.
Let's talk about presentationsor networking events.
Start with whichever one youwant.
Let's focus on those.
I know because last couple oftimes you talked about
interviews.
Let's give some time, if it'sokay with you, and then we can
come back to interview and getthe end.
But let's talk about what areyour thoughts?
(03:41):
What's the link between?
Because that's not somethingthat a lot of people think about
.
So let me ask you this questionto kick it off what is, in your
mind, the link between bodylanguage in general and a
networking event?
You're walking through the door, you parked your car, you're
walking in and there's a bunchof people standing around.
What's the relationship?
(04:01):
How does that factor in thebody language?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
So you just mentioned walking to the room, right,
just starting from the beginningthere.
Yes, have you ever noticed?
Have you ever noticed that somepeople, when they walk into a
room, they're noticed like thewhole room notices, right, and I
(04:27):
think that aspect of it is veryinteresting.
There's just a way that somepeople know how to enter a room
and I was thinking about it.
I'm thinking that maybe it'show they walk in with confidence
.
What I mean by that is, youknow, back, straight shoulders
back.
(04:47):
You know you walk through thedoor with your eyes forward.
As soon as you get into theroom, you scan the room and look
around to where you'd like togo and you head over to an
interesting place, right, or togo talk to somebody that you've
chosen out of the group.
And I think some people justknow how to enter a room and
(05:09):
some people, you know, make mebe a less confident person.
Person might walk in almostlike head down, looking at the
floor, you know, shoulderscurled and on the phone or they
almost hide.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Texting the phone.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Right, exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
That's what I was going to ask you, because what
you said at the beginning andyou started answering my second
question, what you said at thebeginning about how you walk in
with confidence and look around,some people might listen to
that and think like you knowwhat, instinctively, that's what
I do.
So what I want you to continuewith, george, is what shouldn't
we do Walking down on the floor.
(05:47):
Don't walk in texting on yourphone without making you know
like eye contact with anybody.
What else should you not do?
Should you stand by yourselfwhen you walk in at a table?
Should you walk towards a group?
What things come to your mindthat maybe you shouldn't do?
Speaker 2 (06:07):
So this is going to sound you know silly, you know
silly things, but if you'regoing to a networking event
literally to meet people, rightYou're.
I mean, that's why you're there, right.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
What I've seen that is interesting is oftentimes
networking events will have foodand beverages or maybe a little
buffet, some snacks.
I would say a big no-no in mybook would be to head right over
to the buffet and fill yourhands in your face full of food.
(06:42):
You're literally, at that point, putting a barrier between you
and your ability to talk.
You're putting a barrier betweenyou and your ability to shake
hands.
You know, I would say that,even if you know a networking
event is going to have food, ifyou think you're going to be
(07:03):
hungry, go and have a snackbefore you show up.
Meet all the important peoplein the room, don't worry, the
food will be there when you'redone and if not, there's plenty
of places to eat outside theevent.
Right, yeah?
You know, you're not going tostarve.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
So I'm just like a drink in the hand maybe, and
just walk around ready to makecontact with other people.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Maybe I would say a drink in the hand is okay.
I would say better yet would benothing in your hand, because
if you're at a networking event,what you really want to do is
to be able to shake hands andhand out your business cards,
yeah, so it becomes very awkwardwith food and or beverages.
(07:49):
So I mean, if you'relegitimately thirsty, I think
that you can manage maybe with adrink and put it down on the
table and you can still work itout.
But just be aware that ifyou're there to meet people and
you want to make good eyecontact, it's hard to make good
eye contact when your focus isin your plate of appetizers or
(08:12):
something Got it.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Look, I don't want to say last question, but one last
question that I have, and thenwe can move on to presentations,
if you want, or we can continuetalking about networking.
But one of my some of I gosometimes to events for business
coaches, right, and we gettogether.
One of them has a strategythat's a little different than
(08:38):
what me and you were talkingabout and it took me some time
to process it and I still don'tknow how I feel about it.
He says when he walks into anevent right, a networking event
he finds an empty table and hesits at it just by himself and
he waits for people to come sitdown to talk with him.
(09:01):
Sometimes I feel like you knowwhat, if this event is two hours
, and I'm going to do this, andit'll take 15, 20 minutes, half
an hour, for someone to maybethink about coming to sit down
at the table, it's wasted time.
But he actually thinks it's areally good strategy.
He loves doing that.
He just sits with confidence,with eye contact, with a smile
on his face.
(09:21):
So you know, he gives thatimpression that hey, I'm
approachable.
But he does not walk around, hejust waits for someone to come
sit with him.
What do you think about that?
It's different, right.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yeah, I have mixed feelings.
I think that, for me, I wouldrather be the person that's in
charge of going to meet peoplethat I want to meet.
I find that oftentimes the mostinteresting people in the room,
that the people that really needto get spoken to, are usually
(10:03):
the ones standing with a crowdaround them.
Even so, to take the oppositeapproach and to make yourself a
destination is kind ofinteresting.
I'm curious about why it worksfor this individual, or even if
(10:24):
it's, if he's telling himself itworks because he doesn't want
to stand, he'd rather sit, but I, you know, let's say, really
does work.
There might be other tricksthat he's doing.
One is the smiling in the eyecontact, the.
The other thing that Actuallycan help in your favor is the
way you dress.
(10:44):
Right that is kind of adjacentto to body language, but how you
dress.
I've told people that I've goneto never king events and
business events with with a bowtie on, and Nice, there's some
people that are that are reallyagainst the bow tie.
But I'll just be honest you awell done, not not like a clown
(11:06):
bow tie, not the one with itthat takes pictures Right now or
has a squirt like squirts for.
Work like that but it's like Ihand tie, a nice bow tie that
goes with my outfit and I findthat it attracts people.
People want to comment on thebow tie right, nice, and
afterwards I've gone out seepeople for the like oh, you're
(11:29):
the guy that had the bow tie onright.
They people notice littlethings that are unusual or nice,
pocket, square right.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
I do the funky socks kind of approach.
I wear the funky.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
So, but it becomes the conversation piece, and so
you you just put something onyou that that is.
That's.
That's a sign, right?
You're not putting it as a signat, because of course you don't
want to look at a clown, right?
Yeah you know it.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
I get your point appropriately.
Yeah you.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
You know you become approachable.
There's something to talk about.
Oh yeah like it could be aseasy as Wearing a pin of your
favorite Sports team.
You now have to have somethingfor somebody to comment on.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah, and to end this point from my from my part I
think I was thinking about itwhile you're talking Events
where we end up sitting at roundtables.
I could see that maybe workingwhere I sit down and wait for
random you know so that I'm nottargeting anybody, I'm welcoming
everybody and whoever wants tocome sit.
(12:40):
Maybe in that case I could seeit working to where, yeah, we're
walking around, you know, getour drinks, get our snacks, but
then we end up sitting at atable to hear a speech or a talk
or whatever.
Then maybe I could see myselfsitting at a table waiting for
people to come sit down.
But if it's an event whereeverybody's walking around, you
know it's like an active event,I, yeah, I have, I'm still
(13:03):
thinking about it, I'mprocessing it and I'll leave it
up to the listeners to formulatetheir opinion.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
But so the the, the other thing, the mode, just what
one more point about that,where you stand in the room into
being important, right?
So I'll make, I'll make anexample.
I think standing near anentrance to a door where people
have to pass through is Not abad strategy, right?
(13:32):
if you want to, if you reallywant to meet the most people
possible.
You know, positioning your baseof operations per se in an area
that's frequented or has to getpeople have to walk by Is not a
bad strategy to make sure youmeet people, because there's
gonna be a natural flow to theroom and you could figure out
(13:53):
when, where the quote-a-quotecurrents are in that sea of
people.
Standing in one of thosecurrents is a way of maximizing
your time in your space.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
You just reminded me of something.
One other Point I want to makeabout this, and this is from a
lesson that I learned we shouldnot try to underestimate or
Dismiss Someone that's coming totalk to us that we think like,
yeah, meaning there are somepeople that are that could be a
(14:28):
good strategic partner, a goodpotential client that may
approach you, that don't havethat aura or that presence
around them and may come acrossas not too confident.
Do not dismiss them and move onto the next person.
Give anybody that approach youwith a handshake or that wants
to meet you, give them the timeto get to know them, because
(14:51):
I've had cases when I wasstarting out, young and new.
Somebody would Come up to talkto me.
They would look nervous.
They would look you know, theyhave that nervous smile on their
faces.
I would give them a quickhandshake, a Quick nod, listen
to them for a few seconds andthen move on, and then it turns
out that it was a huge missedopportunity for me.
(15:12):
So my point is don't be quickto judge people.
Yes, we should practice exactlyeverything we talked about, but
in the actual event, when youare interacting with people,
give people the time to get toknow them right, regardless of
how you perceive them, that withthat initial perception, get to
know them, talk to them, givethem a fair share of time to you
(15:36):
know to get to know them.
Don't dismiss people tooquickly when you're at a
networking event.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
I so, fumo, you reminded me of something that's
kind of just an interesting ideaIf you observe how very senior
and experienced either businesspeople or politicians react in
crowds the most successful onesif you really look at what they
(16:05):
do and you can observe things ontelevision at different events.
When they're shaking hands,they definitely do that.
They don't just turn around.
They actually take time witheach individual person.
It's something that I want topoint out, because now, getting
back to body language a littlebit, they don't just have a set
(16:29):
one smile, they just don't walkaround with their teeth grinning
all of their faces beaming inthe room.
They talk, they're serious andthen when they first meet the
individual, they will shakehands and maybe reach out and
touch their shoulder.
They look directly in the eyesand then they have this
(16:52):
blossoming smile.
They look in the eyes and thenthe smile.
The mouth goes from a regular,maybe serious look to I'm happy
to see you look, and I thinkpeople notice that when you look
somebody in the eyes and thenthe smile blossoms out of seeing
(17:14):
them, it really makes for agreat connection, as opposed to
you just having a quote unquoteplastic smile on and beaming it
all over the room, then yoursmile isn't individually special
for each person.
I do think that having theability to connect even with
(17:37):
people that are less confidentor less outgoing, you can
actually end up with a specialbond with that person where they
feel extra comfortable with youbecause of those first few
moments.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
And appreciative, yeah, and appreciative, yeah,
because you're building rapport,it's kind of like your
relationship, and you're showingthat smile, that genuine smile
that comes out eventually.
It's based upon the discussion,so it makes the person feel,
wow, like he appreciates me,appreciates the time,
appreciates the discussion.
Those little things add up, Iagree with you.
(18:13):
They add up to formulate thatopinion that we have of others
that we're talking with, agreed,agreed, agreed.
So, george, you're presentingto a group Two times.
One time it's four people, sixpeople sitting at a conference
table and you walk into theconference room, and then
(18:36):
another time you walk into anauditorium and there's 600
people standing in front of you.
What do you do differently?
Let me tell you real quick,while you think about it, what I
do, what I kind of.
I'll tell you what I do in bothcases.
I try to use the real estate.
I walk around a little bit.
I'm not standing in one spot,right, I'm using my hands, not
(19:00):
waving them like a bird, but I'musing them to kind of activate
that interaction between myselfand them.
I'm still using positive energy, not as much when I'm in a
conference room as I would.
I don't kickstart that boostenergy when I'm in a small room
(19:26):
as I do when I'm in a big roomwith a lot of people.
Maybe I kick in and fuse a lotmore energy.
But let me stop there.
What do you think you would dothe same or do differently in
both scenarios?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
This is an interesting question and I think
it really depends on the roomdynamics.
Let's start with the conferenceroom example.
Let's just say it's anywherefrom a one-on-one to maybe a
handful of people, Definitely ona one-on-one.
(20:00):
I am not going to stand up andpresent that just seems a little
silly.
In fact I want to give themindividual attention.
It's possible I'll try to leanforward in my chair, show that
I'm interested in them.
I definitely don't try to readoff the slides or something like
(20:22):
that.
I'm really more just talking tothem or telling them the story
or telling them about thebusiness or what needed to
happen.
I have, I'll tell you, inconference rooms of even maybe
five or six people.
If it's an importantpresentation and there's slides
being projected, I have stood up.
(20:45):
I know that's different thanwhat a lot of people do.
I will stand up, and I do itfrom a presentation.
I still as though when youstand up you command the room a
bit more.
I'll do that on purpose andI'll try to stand in front and
not in a way that blocks theslides, but maybe off to the
(21:06):
side.
I won't move around a lotunless you have to make a point.
I'll use my arms, my body tomaybe match some of the story or
some of the words that I'msaying, for sure.
I would say from there on thelarger the room, the bigger my
(21:28):
body language gets Anywhere fromwalking around to using my arms
, like if I said the word big, Imight spread my arms all the
way out to show something big.
If I said the word small.
I might use my index finger andthumb together to show
(21:48):
something small.
I'm using hand gestures tomimic the words.
I think it helps people tounderstand.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
I was going to say what you're talking about now is
even sometimes, if you're withone person only, yes.
Because I was going to say yeah, yeah, which is fine, it's okay
.
Because I was going to say Idisagree a little bit with you.
Because I was just thinkinglast month I met in my coaching
with a couple of clients whereit was one-on-one and I did what
(22:20):
you said at the end now, whichI agree with.
I did actually stand up andpresent.
If I have a presentation and Ireally get into it and I get
interactive and I'm pointing itup on the screen and then I come
back In between, yes, I sitdown.
You know, I bring up a slideafter I say my piece Sometimes
maybe I could sit down and askthem what they think, comment
(22:43):
with them and so on and talkwith them.
So it's a mix of both.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
The only thing is that you know, with that
one-on-one or the few, I thinkyou got to play it by ear.
You definitely want to get downon their level and not be
standing over them all the time.
You know, obviously, if you'remaking a presentation and it's
being projected, then yeah, youstand up and you explain
something that you might sitdown again.
I agree with that.
I also like the presentationstyle where you purposely don't
(23:18):
project and let's say you had abrochure or something.
You might turn it around on thetable and point them and walk
them through the brochure and tolook at certain things.
I like that because it's a goodfocal point where you can
direct their eyes and theirthinking and walk them through
(23:38):
something.
I like that as well.
But I'll be honest with you forsure, the bigger the room, the
bigger the audience, the biggerthe presentation.
You have to do it in order toconnect with the entire group
and give them something to focuson.
Yes, and for sure you knowsituations that are very
(24:01):
difficult for me to present iswhere I have a very large group
and I can't see the people rightFor some reason, either blaring
lights in my eyes, I can't seethe audience or, let's say, it's
a Zoom call and nobody'sputting on their webcams.
That's just a really big agenda.
(24:23):
It's just the Georgia-Livemonologue and that's just
difficult to carry on for a longperiod of time.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Now a dozen people in a conference room I make eye
contact with while I'mpresenting.
You know like I circulatearound people Make an eye
contact.
Big room, 1,500 people.
What's your thoughts on eyecontact then, connecting with
(24:54):
the people?
Speaker 2 (24:56):
I definitely am doing it.
I'm finding people in theaudience.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
I am presenting to them.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
I'm gauging their eyes, their body language.
Are they leaning forward, arethey snoring, are they on their
phone?
And I'm gauging my reaction ofwhat I do, based off of the
consensus of the group.
I need to be in tune with thegroup and to that extent, your
body language and the way youpresent yourself matters.
(25:25):
Right.
You move around?
Are you standing withconfidence?
Are you making eye contact?
Are you smiling, are you?
into the presentation, becauseyour emotions and the way you
exude those emotions throughyour facial expressions and your
body language will actuallyhelp the audience react and feel
(25:46):
the same way that you do so ifyou're bored in your
presentation chances are.
The audience is bored right.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
You'll get a workflow .
Speaker 2 (25:57):
If you're excited yeah, it's true If you're
excited and happy and you'resmiling and you're making eye
contact and you exude thatconfidence the audience feels it
.
It really sets the mood for theroom.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What other points can you thinkabout between both scenarios?
Speaker 2 (26:16):
So let me bring this other thing that I couldn't help
thinking about, because yousaid a conference room with
maybe a dozen people.
One of the things that happensin those sorts of groups is
you'll end up with one or twopeople that might be the most
senior people in the room.
I might start trying to figurethat out quickly, like who are
(26:41):
the leaders in the room, and beextra attentive to them or defer
to them, because the bodylanguage or the other people in
the room are going to show who'sthe real leader there.
So you have to pick up on otherpeople's body language Also.
This might be a minor pointhere, but pointing right.
So if somebody asks a question,pointing at them with your
(27:04):
index finger I think it's a bignovice move.
Don't point at people.
It's a lot of people getbothered by it.
I do like you can sort of useyour entire hand, not by your
index finger, but your entirehand Thumb up, you say, oh
please, you know, like, andinvite them.
(27:25):
You can maybe make the motionfor them to like oh, please, say
something.
The other one that I likesometimes and you can watch
follow just to do it.
They kind of make a close, aslightly loosely closed fist and
they kind of point with theirthumb and I think that's that's
(27:45):
a pretty nifty trick.
Yeah, it's really nice, but whatyou do with your hands and
gestures like that make a bigdifference.
I would say that if you're atthe conference table let's say
an interview where it'sinappropriate to stand up and
walk around the room, you're notpresenting your interviewing.
I would say there are certainpower positions that you can put
(28:08):
your hands in.
For instance, you can connectall your fingers and thumb
together with your palms apart,maybe not quite with your elbows
on the table, but you know,maybe in a way, if you're trying
to make a point, that's a verystrong position.
Definitely don't hide yourhands underneath the table,
(28:29):
Right?
I think that's a big no-no inan interview.
You want your hands cleanlyvisible.
It's a good idea to take notesat your own interview, right of
things that they're saying.
So a pen and hand and a pad ofpaper, I think, is a good
posture position to be in Againwith your back straight, trying
to make eye contact as much aspossible, Smiling right.
(28:52):
Things like that really make adifference.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Agreed.
And you know what other pointI'm going to take this from a
different angle that I want tobring up to the listeners.
You do not have to be a veryoutgoing, super sociable person
to be good at presentations.
There are a lot of great, greatspeakers that existed over
(29:19):
history, believe it or not, thatwere very introverted, very,
not too sociable, but they gaveamazing speeches and amazing
presentations.
And you can actually sometimes,if you watch on YouTube some
speakers, some people that talk,you could see the
(29:41):
transformation that happens ontheir face when they get up on
stage, from being their self tobeing the presenter, the one
giving the speech right.
Sometimes they go through thatmental transformation, a switch
that they click to start beingin that presentation mode.
(30:03):
My point is it is something thatyou can practice.
It doesn't mean you have tochange your whole personality.
Might take a little bit morework, but it can be done right.
It's just like practicing howto swim, riding a bike, how to
do other things.
You can practice becoming moreseasoned at giving speeches or
(30:24):
presenting.
You just have to really thinkabout it.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
So, mo, I completely agree with you, but I do think
it gets better with practice.
And I guess, of course beinggood speakers necessarily
something you're born with.
I mean, certainly some peopleare a bit more outgoing and they
have the encouragement from thetime they were a little maybe,
and it really helped them along.
I would say a good thing to dois, now that we have cell phones
(30:55):
and stuff all around, makeyourself present for a couple of
minutes and record yourself onthe iPhone and watch it.
You'll see things to makeyourself better, like I'll tell
you, a key thing I tell peopleall the time when they're
presenting is I'm like oh, takeyour hands out of your pocket,
right?
The worst thing you could do isto have your keys or something
(31:16):
in your pocket and right onaround, you're actually showing
the audience that you're moreinterested in what's in your
pocket than talking to them.
So I would say and if you haveproblems making big hand
gestures, you know what Hands atyour side is perfectly fine,
stand there with confidence,it's perfectly fine.
(31:36):
I like to move around, butshifting back and forth never
shifting back and forth doesn'thelp, right?
So if your default isn't towalk around, then just plant
your feet, don't lock your knees.
Just stand with some confidenceback, straight hands at their
(31:57):
side and talk.
It's perfectly fine to presentthat way and in fact a lot of
people prefer it.
So I know I walk around and yousaid you walk around.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Just in terms of audience.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Some people that are hard of hearing and need to see
your face would prefer it if youdidn't walk around.
I'm just saying it's just aconsideration.
Stand there with confidence atyour side and make sure you are
fit in the audience all the time, because if somebody is hard of
hearing, they can't see yourface.
They're not going to understandwhat you're saying.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
And don't look at your wristwatch.
If somebody is asking you aquestion or talking to you, try
to avoid looking, unless I needhuh.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Unless I ask you what time it is, and then it's okay.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
I was just going to say that, or if I really do
sincerely need to know how muchtime I have left.
And I'm going to look at mywatch.
I say that's the reason why I'mlooking.
So how much time do we haveleft?
Am I running over the timescheduled?
So you have to show yourintention while you're looking
at your watch.
We all know what happened withGeorge Bush during the debate.
When he looked at his watch.
(33:06):
It was his kiss of death.
So just always remember that.
Do not look at the watch whenyou're, especially if someone's
asking you.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
So one more thing I wanted to bring up.
If you talked a lot aboutpresentation, I want to go back
to the interview or the one onone, or even like the networking
event.
Something that you can do andagain body language wise is you
can mirror the other people'sbody language.
Sometimes that works very well.
(33:40):
If they have a certain handposition, you can mirror.
As long as it's appropriate, ofcourse.
Right, you can mirror theirposition.
It's a way of building rapport.
Your minimum gain how they sit,are their legs crossed?
Well, if it's appropriate,maybe you can cross your legs
(34:02):
too.
Or if they're leaning towardsyou, lean a little bit towards
them or lean a little forward.
They'll lean a little forward.
If you can get into this littlething where you're mimicking
each other's posture, thenyou've built a lot of rapport
and it's almost like a mini teambuilding.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Nice, good point.
Good point, george.
Yeah, I think that does makesome people connect well with
others too.
It's a good point.
Great man, this was a reallygood discussion.
Do you have anything else youwant to add?
Speaker 2 (34:36):
No, I think we could probably go on with posture and
facial expressions andbiolinguage forever and ever.
I think we did a pretty goodjob here at Back to Basics.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Yeah, no.
So that's good man.
Oh yeah, no, this was a gooddiscussion and I enjoyed it.
I took a lot of some takeawaysout of it, some good takeaways.
So yeah, great.
No, I don't think I haveanything else to add.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
So well, why don't we wrap this up and I think this
is going to be our last podcastfor this semester.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
For this year, probably yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Yeah, for this year.
We'll kick it off again inJanuary.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Great All right.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
So anyway, thank you all for listening to this
episode of Back to Basics on theBusiness Edge, brought to you
by Feliciano School of Businessat Montclair State University.
We hope you enjoyed thispodcast and welcome any feedback
you have for us, includingsuggestions for future topics.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Thank you, george, thank you listeners.
I wish everybody a nice andhealthy and happy holiday season
and we will circle back withyou in January.
Take care everyone Same here.
Thanks Mel, thanks George, takecare buddy, bye, bye, bye, bye.
Hello everyone, welcome back to, back to Basics.
I know it's been a couple ofweeks.
I hope everyone is well.
I am Moel Hussini and I am herewith my dear, dear friend,
george Elias.
Hey, george, welcome back,buddy, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
You're doing great Mal.
How are you?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
I'm good, I'm good, I'm good wrapping up my
Christmas to-do list.
Are you done with your giftshopping?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I haven't even started.
I'm way behind this year, waybehind.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Yeah, and I think I have.
I think one more day I shouldbe done.
I started really early.
Are you off from work or areyou working the next week or two
?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Well, I'm going to try to take some time off, so at
my day job, I'll sharesomething with you.
What's?
Speaker 1 (01:00):
up.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I get about four weeks worth of vacation to you
know, and they'll even let metake five or six or whatever I
want.
There's really no limit.
All year I've taken 19 hours.
I can't believe it.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Are you kidding?
That's it, old year.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yeah, yeah, all year.
I don't know what happened, soI'm going to try to take a few
days off, but there's a user tolose it.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
No use it.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
That's just the way it goes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
All right.
So lesson learned to thelisteners don't do that.
Use your vacation days, yeah,exactly.
No one else.
Seriousness, man, you need somedowntime.
Take advantage of it.
Try to take a couple of days.
I can't believe that.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Listen, it wasn't on purpose that the year got away
from me.
I know, Next year I'll have abetter plan.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
The year does go by quick.
Last thing I'll tell you realquick.
I mean I was at Burlington theother day getting some things.
They already have Valentinestuff up.
I'm like slow down, and thenit's Easter and then it's
Memorial Day and then nextThanksgiving, anyway, anyway,
anyway, it's all good.
I remember last, last time wemet, we were talking about body
(02:14):
language.
Right, that's kind of like.
I think we had a couple ofepisodes.
We're talking about bodylanguage.
Do you want to continue withthat?
Shall we continue talking aboutbody language?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah, I think we could probably wrap up body
language here, and I think wehit body language from a few
different aspects.
Right.
Even last time we talked aboutbody language over the phone,
which I thought was aninteresting concept.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
True, true To remember that.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, right, yeah.
So what we said last time?
We said that we wanted tocontinue with body language.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
But something a little bit different, some
things that have to do with,maybe, formal events or speaking
engagement, interviews and therole that body language has, you
know, even at a networkingevent.
Right, yeah, how does that, youknow, help you be successful or
(03:16):
not?
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Nice.
You know what?
Why don't we?
Yeah, let's start with that.
Let's start with tell me yourthoughts.
Let's talk about presentationsor networking events.
Start with whichever one youwant.
Let's focus on those.
I know because last couple oftimes you talked about
interviews.
Let's give some time, if it'sokay with you, and then we can
come back to interview and getthe end.
But let's talk about what areyour thoughts?
(03:41):
What's the link between?
Because that's not somethingthat a lot of people think about
.
So let me ask you this questionto kick it off what is, in your
mind, the link between bodylanguage in general and a
networking event?
You're walking through the door, you parked your car, you're
walking in and there's a bunchof people standing around.
What's the relationship?
(04:01):
How does that factor in thebody language?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
So you just mentioned walking to the room, right,
just starting from the beginningthere.
Yes, have you ever noticed?
Have you ever noticed that somepeople, when they walk into a
room, they're noticed like thewhole room notices, right, and I
(04:27):
think that aspect of it is veryinteresting.
There's just a way that somepeople know how to enter a room
and I was thinking about it.
I'm thinking that maybe it'show they walk in with confidence
.
What I mean by that is, youknow, back, straight shoulders
back.
(04:47):
You know you walk through thedoor with your eyes forward.
As soon as you get into theroom, you scan the room and look
around to where you'd like togo and you head over to an
interesting place, right, or togo talk to somebody that you've
chosen out of the group.
And I think some people justknow how to enter a room and
(05:09):
some people, you know, make mebe a less confident person.
Person might walk in almostlike head down, looking at the
floor, you know, shoulderscurled and on the phone or they
almost hide.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Texting the phone.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Right, exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
That's what I was going to ask you, because what
you said at the beginning andyou started answering my second
question, what you said at thebeginning about how you walk in
with confidence and look around,some people might listen to
that and think like you knowwhat, instinctively, that's what
I do.
So what I want you to continuewith, george, is what shouldn't
we do Walking down on the floor.
(05:47):
Don't walk in texting on yourphone without making you know
like eye contact with anybody.
What else should you not do?
Should you stand by yourselfwhen you walk in at a table?
Should you walk towards a group?
What things come to your mindthat maybe you shouldn't do?
Speaker 2 (06:07):
So this is going to sound you know silly, you know
silly things, but if you'regoing to a networking event
literally to meet people, rightYou're.
I mean, that's why you're there, right.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
What I've seen that is interesting is oftentimes
networking events will have foodand beverages or maybe a little
buffet, some snacks.
I would say a big no-no in mybook would be to head right over
to the buffet and fill yourhands in your face full of food.
(06:42):
You're literally, at that point, putting a barrier between you
and your ability to talk.
You're putting a barrier betweenyou and your ability to shake
hands.
You know, I would say that,even if you know a networking
event is going to have food, ifyou think you're going to be
(07:03):
hungry, go and have a snackbefore you show up.
Meet all the important peoplein the room, don't worry, the
food will be there when you'redone and if not, there's plenty
of places to eat outside theevent.
Right, yeah?
You know, you're not going tostarve.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
So I'm just like a drink in the hand maybe, and
just walk around ready to makecontact with other people.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Maybe I would say a drink in the hand is okay.
I would say better yet would benothing in your hand, because
if you're at a networking event,what you really want to do is
to be able to shake hands andhand out your business cards,
yeah, so it becomes very awkwardwith food and or beverages.
(07:49):
So I mean, if you'relegitimately thirsty, I think
that you can manage maybe with adrink and put it down on the
table and you can still work itout.
But just be aware that ifyou're there to meet people and
you want to make good eyecontact, it's hard to make good
eye contact when your focus isin your plate of appetizers or
(08:12):
something Got it.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Look, I don't want to say last question, but one last
question that I have, and thenwe can move on to presentations,
if you want, or we can continuetalking about networking.
But one of my some of I gosometimes to events for business
coaches, right, and we gettogether.
One of them has a strategythat's a little different than
(08:38):
what me and you were talkingabout and it took me some time
to process it and I still don'tknow how I feel about it.
He says when he walks into anevent right, a networking event
he finds an empty table and hesits at it just by himself and
he waits for people to come sitdown to talk with him.
(09:01):
Sometimes I feel like you knowwhat, if this event is two hours
, and I'm going to do this, andit'll take 15, 20 minutes, half
an hour, for someone to maybethink about coming to sit down
at the table, it's wasted time.
But he actually thinks it's areally good strategy.
He loves doing that.
He just sits with confidence,with eye contact, with a smile
on his face.
(09:21):
So you know, he gives thatimpression that hey, I'm
approachable.
But he does not walk around, hejust waits for someone to come
sit with him.
What do you think about that?
It's different, right.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yeah, I have mixed feelings.
I think that, for me, I wouldrather be the person that's in
charge of going to meet peoplethat I want to meet.
I find that oftentimes the mostinteresting people in the room,
that the people that really needto get spoken to, are usually
(10:03):
the ones standing with a crowdaround them.
Even so, to take the oppositeapproach and to make yourself a
destination is kind ofinteresting.
I'm curious about why it worksfor this individual, or even if
(10:24):
it's, if he's telling himself itworks because he doesn't want
to stand, he'd rather sit, but I, you know, let's say, really
does work.
There might be other tricksthat he's doing.
One is the smiling in the eyecontact, the.
The other thing that Actuallycan help in your favor is the
way you dress.
(10:44):
Right that is kind of adjacentto to body language, but how you
dress.
I've told people that I've goneto never king events and
business events with with a bowtie on, and Nice, there's some
people that are that are reallyagainst the bow tie.
But I'll just be honest you awell done, not not like a clown
(11:06):
bow tie, not the one with itthat takes pictures Right now or
has a squirt like squirts for.
Work like that but it's like Ihand tie, a nice bow tie that
goes with my outfit and I findthat it attracts people.
People want to comment on thebow tie right, nice, and
afterwards I've gone out seepeople for the like oh, you're
(11:29):
the guy that had the bow tie onright.
They people notice littlethings that are unusual or nice,
pocket, square right.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
I do the funky socks kind of approach.
I wear the funky.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
So, but it becomes the conversation piece, and so
you you just put something onyou that that is.
That's.
That's a sign, right?
You're not putting it as a signat, because of course you don't
want to look at a clown, right?
Yeah you know it.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
I get your point appropriately.
Yeah you.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
You know you become approachable.
There's something to talk about.
Oh yeah like it could be aseasy as Wearing a pin of your
favorite Sports team.
You now have to have somethingfor somebody to comment on.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah, and to end this point from my from my part I
think I was thinking about itwhile you're talking Events
where we end up sitting at roundtables.
I could see that maybe workingwhere I sit down and wait for
random you know so that I'm nottargeting anybody, I'm welcoming
everybody and whoever wants tocome sit.
(12:40):
Maybe in that case I could seeit working to where, yeah, we're
walking around, you know, getour drinks, get our snacks, but
then we end up sitting at atable to hear a speech or a talk
or whatever.
Then maybe I could see myselfsitting at a table waiting for
people to come sit down.
But if it's an event whereeverybody's walking around, you
know it's like an active event,I, yeah, I have, I'm still
(13:03):
thinking about it, I'mprocessing it and I'll leave it
up to the listeners to formulatetheir opinion.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
But so the the, the other thing, the mode, just what
one more point about that,where you stand in the room into
being important, right?
So I'll make, I'll make anexample.
I think standing near anentrance to a door where people
have to pass through is Not abad strategy, right?
(13:32):
if you want to, if you reallywant to meet the most people
possible.
You know, positioning your baseof operations per se in an area
that's frequented or has to getpeople have to walk by Is not a
bad strategy to make sure youmeet people, because there's
gonna be a natural flow to theroom and you could figure out
(13:53):
when, where the quote-a-quotecurrents are in that sea of
people.
Standing in one of thosecurrents is a way of maximizing
your time in your space.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
You just reminded me of something.
One other Point I want to makeabout this, and this is from a
lesson that I learned we shouldnot try to underestimate or
Dismiss Someone that's coming totalk to us that we think like,
yeah, meaning there are somepeople that are that could be a
(14:28):
good strategic partner, a goodpotential client that may
approach you, that don't havethat aura or that presence
around them and may come acrossas not too confident.
Do not dismiss them and move onto the next person.
Give anybody that approach youwith a handshake or that wants
to meet you, give them the timeto get to know them, because
(14:51):
I've had cases when I wasstarting out, young and new.
Somebody would Come up to talkto me.
They would look nervous.
They would look you know, theyhave that nervous smile on their
faces.
I would give them a quickhandshake, a Quick nod, listen
to them for a few seconds andthen move on, and then it turns
out that it was a huge missedopportunity for me.
(15:12):
So my point is don't be quickto judge people.
Yes, we should practice exactlyeverything we talked about, but
in the actual event, when youare interacting with people,
give people the time to get toknow them right, regardless of
how you perceive them, that withthat initial perception, get to
know them, talk to them, givethem a fair share of time to you
(15:36):
know to get to know them.
Don't dismiss people tooquickly when you're at a
networking event.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
I so, fumo, you reminded me of something that's
kind of just an interesting ideaIf you observe how very senior
and experienced either businesspeople or politicians react in
crowds the most successful onesif you really look at what they
(16:05):
do and you can observe things ontelevision at different events.
When they're shaking hands,they definitely do that.
They don't just turn around.
They actually take time witheach individual person.
It's something that I want topoint out, because now, getting
back to body language a littlebit, they don't just have a set
(16:29):
one smile, they just don't walkaround with their teeth grinning
all of their faces beaming inthe room.
They talk, they're serious andthen when they first meet the
individual, they will shakehands and maybe reach out and
touch their shoulder.
They look directly in the eyesand then they have this
(16:52):
blossoming smile.
They look in the eyes and thenthe smile.
The mouth goes from a regular,maybe serious look to I'm happy
to see you look, and I thinkpeople notice that when you look
somebody in the eyes and thenthe smile blossoms out of seeing
(17:14):
them, it really makes for agreat connection, as opposed to
you just having a quote unquoteplastic smile on and beaming it
all over the room, then yoursmile isn't individually special
for each person.
I do think that having theability to connect even with
(17:37):
people that are less confidentor less outgoing, you can
actually end up with a specialbond with that person where they
feel extra comfortable with youbecause of those first few
moments.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
And appreciative, yeah, and appreciative, yeah,
because you're building rapport,it's kind of like your
relationship, and you're showingthat smile, that genuine smile
that comes out eventually.
It's based upon the discussion,so it makes the person feel,
wow, like he appreciates me,appreciates the time,
appreciates the discussion.
Those little things add up, Iagree with you.
(18:13):
They add up to formulate thatopinion that we have of others
that we're talking with, agreed,agreed, agreed.
So, george, you're presentingto a group Two times.
One time it's four people, sixpeople sitting at a conference
table and you walk into theconference room, and then
(18:36):
another time you walk into anauditorium and there's 600
people standing in front of you.
What do you do differently?
Let me tell you real quick,while you think about it, what I
do, what I kind of.
I'll tell you what I do in bothcases.
I try to use the real estate.
I walk around a little bit.
I'm not standing in one spot,right, I'm using my hands, not
(19:00):
waving them like a bird, but I'musing them to kind of activate
that interaction between myselfand them.
I'm still using positive energy, not as much when I'm in a
conference room as I would.
I don't kickstart that boostenergy when I'm in a small room
(19:26):
as I do when I'm in a big roomwith a lot of people.
Maybe I kick in and fuse a lotmore energy.
But let me stop there.
What do you think you would dothe same or do differently in
both scenarios?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
This is an interesting question and I think
it really depends on the roomdynamics.
Let's start with the conferenceroom example.
Let's just say it's anywherefrom a one-on-one to maybe a
handful of people, Definitely ona one-on-one.
(20:00):
I am not going to stand up andpresent that just seems a little
silly.
In fact I want to give themindividual attention.
It's possible I'll try to leanforward in my chair, show that
I'm interested in them.
I definitely don't try to readoff the slides or something like
(20:22):
that.
I'm really more just talking tothem or telling them the story
or telling them about thebusiness or what needed to
happen.
I have, I'll tell you, inconference rooms of even maybe
five or six people.
If it's an importantpresentation and there's slides
being projected, I have stood up.
(20:45):
I know that's different thanwhat a lot of people do.
I will stand up, and I do itfrom a presentation.
I still as though when youstand up you command the room a
bit more.
I'll do that on purpose andI'll try to stand in front and
not in a way that blocks theslides, but maybe off to the
(21:06):
side.
I won't move around a lotunless you have to make a point.
I'll use my arms, my body tomaybe match some of the story or
some of the words that I'msaying, for sure.
I would say from there on thelarger the room, the bigger my
(21:28):
body language gets Anywhere fromwalking around to using my arms
, like if I said the word big, Imight spread my arms all the
way out to show something big.
If I said the word small.
I might use my index finger andthumb together to show
(21:48):
something small.
I'm using hand gestures tomimic the words.
I think it helps people tounderstand.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
I was going to say what you're talking about now is
even sometimes, if you're withone person only, yes.
Because I was going to say yeah, yeah, which is fine, it's okay
.
Because I was going to say Idisagree a little bit with you.
Because I was just thinkinglast month I met in my coaching
with a couple of clients whereit was one-on-one and I did what
(22:20):
you said at the end now, whichI agree with.
I did actually stand up andpresent.
If I have a presentation and Ireally get into it and I get
interactive and I'm pointing itup on the screen and then I come
back In between, yes, I sitdown.
You know, I bring up a slideafter I say my piece Sometimes
maybe I could sit down and askthem what they think, comment
(22:43):
with them and so on and talkwith them.
So it's a mix of both.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
The only thing is that you know, with that
one-on-one or the few, I thinkyou got to play it by ear.
You definitely want to get downon their level and not be
standing over them all the time.
You know, obviously, if you'remaking a presentation and it's
being projected, then yeah, youstand up and you explain
something that you might sitdown again.
I agree with that.
I also like the presentationstyle where you purposely don't
(23:18):
project and let's say you had abrochure or something.
You might turn it around on thetable and point them and walk
them through the brochure and tolook at certain things.
I like that because it's a goodfocal point where you can
direct their eyes and theirthinking and walk them through
(23:38):
something.
I like that as well.
But I'll be honest with you forsure, the bigger the room, the
bigger the audience, the biggerthe presentation.
You have to do it in order toconnect with the entire group
and give them something to focuson.
Yes, and for sure you knowsituations that are very
(24:01):
difficult for me to present iswhere I have a very large group
and I can't see the people rightFor some reason, either blaring
lights in my eyes, I can't seethe audience or, let's say, it's
a Zoom call and nobody'sputting on their webcams.
That's just a really big agenda.
(24:23):
It's just the Georgia-Livemonologue and that's just
difficult to carry on for a longperiod of time.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Now a dozen people in a conference room I make eye
contact with while I'mpresenting.
You know like I circulatearound people Make an eye
contact.
Big room, 1,500 people.
What's your thoughts on eyecontact then, connecting with
(24:54):
the people?
Speaker 2 (24:56):
I definitely am doing it.
I'm finding people in theaudience.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
I am presenting to them.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
I'm gauging their eyes, their body language.
Are they leaning forward, arethey snoring, are they on their
phone?
And I'm gauging my reaction ofwhat I do, based off of the
consensus of the group.
I need to be in tune with thegroup and to that extent, your
body language and the way youpresent yourself matters.
(25:25):
Right.
You move around?
Are you standing withconfidence?
Are you making eye contact?
Are you smiling, are you?
into the presentation, becauseyour emotions and the way you
exude those emotions throughyour facial expressions and your
body language will actuallyhelp the audience react and feel
(25:46):
the same way that you do so ifyou're bored in your
presentation chances are.
The audience is bored right.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
You'll get a workflow .
Speaker 2 (25:57):
If you're excited yeah, it's true If you're
excited and happy and you'resmiling and you're making eye
contact and you exude thatconfidence the audience feels it
.
It really sets the mood for theroom.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What other points can you thinkabout between both scenarios?
Speaker 2 (26:16):
So let me bring this other thing that I couldn't help
thinking about, because yousaid a conference room with
maybe a dozen people.
One of the things that happensin those sorts of groups is
you'll end up with one or twopeople that might be the most
senior people in the room.
I might start trying to figurethat out quickly, like who are
(26:41):
the leaders in the room, and beextra attentive to them or defer
to them, because the bodylanguage or the other people in
the room are going to show who'sthe real leader there.
So you have to pick up on otherpeople's body language Also.
This might be a minor pointhere, but pointing right.
So if somebody asks a question,pointing at them with your
(27:04):
index finger I think it's a bignovice move.
Don't point at people.
It's a lot of people getbothered by it.
I do like you can sort of useyour entire hand, not by your
index finger, but your entirehand Thumb up, you say, oh
please, you know, like, andinvite them.
(27:25):
You can maybe make the motionfor them to like oh, please, say
something.
The other one that I likesometimes and you can watch
follow just to do it.
They kind of make a close, aslightly loosely closed fist and
they kind of point with theirthumb and I think that's that's
(27:45):
a pretty nifty trick.
Yeah, it's really nice, but whatyou do with your hands and
gestures like that make a bigdifference.
I would say that if you're atthe conference table let's say
an interview where it'sinappropriate to stand up and
walk around the room, you're notpresenting your interviewing.
I would say there are certainpower positions that you can put
(28:08):
your hands in.
For instance, you can connectall your fingers and thumb
together with your palms apart,maybe not quite with your elbows
on the table, but you know,maybe in a way, if you're trying
to make a point, that's a verystrong position.
Definitely don't hide yourhands underneath the table,
(28:29):
Right?
I think that's a big no-no inan interview.
You want your hands cleanlyvisible.
It's a good idea to take notesat your own interview, right of
things that they're saying.
So a pen and hand and a pad ofpaper, I think, is a good
posture position to be in Againwith your back straight, trying
to make eye contact as much aspossible, Smiling right.
(28:52):
Things like that really make adifference.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Agreed.
And you know what other pointI'm going to take this from a
different angle that I want tobring up to the listeners.
You do not have to be a veryoutgoing, super sociable person
to be good at presentations.
There are a lot of great, greatspeakers that existed over
(29:19):
history, believe it or not, thatwere very introverted, very,
not too sociable, but they gaveamazing speeches and amazing
presentations.
And you can actually sometimes,if you watch on YouTube some
speakers, some people that talk,you could see the
(29:41):
transformation that happens ontheir face when they get up on
stage, from being their self tobeing the presenter, the one
giving the speech right.
Sometimes they go through thatmental transformation, a switch
that they click to start beingin that presentation mode.
(30:03):
My point is it is something thatyou can practice.
It doesn't mean you have tochange your whole personality.
Might take a little bit morework, but it can be done right.
It's just like practicing howto swim, riding a bike, how to
do other things.
You can practice becoming moreseasoned at giving speeches or
(30:24):
presenting.
You just have to really thinkabout it.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
So, mo, I completely agree with you, but I do think
it gets better with practice.
And I guess, of course beinggood speakers necessarily
something you're born with.
I mean, certainly some peopleare a bit more outgoing and they
have the encouragement from thetime they were a little maybe,
and it really helped them along.
I would say a good thing to dois, now that we have cell phones
(30:55):
and stuff all around, makeyourself present for a couple of
minutes and record yourself onthe iPhone and watch it.
You'll see things to makeyourself better, like I'll tell
you, a key thing I tell peopleall the time when they're
presenting is I'm like oh, takeyour hands out of your pocket,
right?
The worst thing you could do isto have your keys or something
(31:16):
in your pocket and right onaround, you're actually showing
the audience that you're moreinterested in what's in your
pocket than talking to them.
So I would say and if you haveproblems making big hand
gestures, you know what Hands atyour side is perfectly fine,
stand there with confidence,it's perfectly fine.
(31:36):
I like to move around, butshifting back and forth never
shifting back and forth doesn'thelp, right?
So if your default isn't towalk around, then just plant
your feet, don't lock your knees.
Just stand with some confidenceback, straight hands at their
(31:57):
side and talk.
It's perfectly fine to presentthat way and in fact a lot of
people prefer it.
So I know I walk around and yousaid you walk around.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Just in terms of audience.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Some people that are hard of hearing and need to see
your face would prefer it if youdidn't walk around.
I'm just saying it's just aconsideration.
Stand there with confidence atyour side and make sure you are
fit in the audience all the time, because if somebody is hard of
hearing, they can't see yourface.
They're not going to understandwhat you're saying.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
And don't look at your wristwatch.
If somebody is asking you aquestion or talking to you, try
to avoid looking, unless I needhuh.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Unless I ask you what time it is, and then it's okay.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
I was just going to say that, or if I really do
sincerely need to know how muchtime I have left.
And I'm going to look at mywatch.
I say that's the reason why I'mlooking.
So how much time do we haveleft?
Am I running over the timescheduled?
So you have to show yourintention while you're looking
at your watch.
We all know what happened withGeorge Bush during the debate.
When he looked at his watch.
(33:06):
It was his kiss of death.
So just always remember that.
Do not look at the watch whenyou're, especially if someone's
asking you.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
So one more thing I wanted to bring up.
If you talked a lot aboutpresentation, I want to go back
to the interview or the one onone, or even like the networking
event.
Something that you can do andagain body language wise is you
can mirror the other people'sbody language.
Sometimes that works very well.
(33:40):
If they have a certain handposition, you can mirror.
As long as it's appropriate, ofcourse.
Right, you can mirror theirposition.
It's a way of building rapport.
Your minimum gain how they sit,are their legs crossed?
Well, if it's appropriate,maybe you can cross your legs
(34:02):
too.
Or if they're leaning towardsyou, lean a little bit towards
them or lean a little forward.
They'll lean a little forward.
If you can get into this littlething where you're mimicking
each other's posture, thenyou've built a lot of rapport
and it's almost like a mini teambuilding.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Nice, good point.
Good point, george.
Yeah, I think that does makesome people connect well with
others too.
It's a good point.
Great man, this was a reallygood discussion.
Do you have anything else youwant to add?
Speaker 2 (34:36):
No, I think we could probably go on with posture and
facial expressions andbiolinguage forever and ever.
I think we did a pretty goodjob here at Back to Basics.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Yeah, no.
So that's good man.
Oh yeah, no, this was a gooddiscussion and I enjoyed it.
I took a lot of some takeawaysout of it, some good takeaways.
So yeah, great.
No, I don't think I haveanything else to add.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
So well, why don't we wrap this up and I think this
is going to be our last podcastfor this semester.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
For this year, probably yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Yeah, for this year.
We'll kick it off again inJanuary.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Great All right.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
So anyway, thank you all for listening to this
episode of Back to Basics on theBusiness Edge, brought to you
by Feliciano School of Businessat Montclair State University.
We hope you enjoyed thispodcast and welcome any feedback
you have for us, includingsuggestions for future topics.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Thank you, george, thank you listeners.
I wish everybody a nice andhealthy and happy holiday season
and we will circle back withyou in January.
Take care everyone Same here.
Thanks Mel, thanks George, takecare buddy, bye, bye, bye, bye.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.