S8 EP3: 2025 Creator Economy Report: Trust, Getting Canceled, and the Future of Online Businesses

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We're having the perfect storm in digital right
now.
Where consumption is up, trustis low and therefore people are
actively looking for smallbusiness owners and independent
creators to consume content from.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Because now it's never been more important than
ever to create content on theinternet.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Y'all speed, like this season is all about going
faster and content consumptionis here and we need to
capitalize on that window.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
People absolutely would have given an arm and a
leg to be able to do what youhave the opportunity to do right
now by just turning on yoursilly phone and hitting record
or creating something on Canvafor free and posting it on the
internet Like it's unbelievable,and then we lose sight of that.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
I think content creators are going to take over
the online business space if wedon't get smart and savvy about
how we market our businessesonline.
What's up, Amelia?
It's Kim and Chris.
And you're listening to theBusiness Lounge Podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
In each episode, we'll break down all the latest
in online marketing, give youall the deets on what's working
now to turn your content intocustomers, boost your leads and
sales and scale your businessfast.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
All without compromising on what you care
about most faith, family andfreedom.
And listen, it's all real, rawand unfiltered.
So let's start the show.
Welcome back to the BusinessLounge Podcast.
I'm your host, kimberly AnnJimenez, and I got Chris here in
the house, as always in thisnew season, which we're super
excited to jump in.

(01:29):
But, guys, today we're going totalk about Kajabi's 2025
Creator Commerce Report.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
Commerce, we're in commerce, we're in the business.
It's been a long day y'all.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
The business of commerce.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
We've been filming all day.
We've been filming all day.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
We have been filming all day.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
All week really.
But, I'm sorry Creator CommerceReport, and I think it's really
interesting, as online businessowners, to look at what is
changing, what is trending inthe creator space, because, of
course, we share the contentcreation aspect with creators,
and so there's some reallyinteresting insights about how
so many surprise, surprise, somany of the creators are

(02:10):
actually starting businesses.
They're turning into CEOs.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Imagine that, imagine that, imagine you actually have
to do business to make money onthe internet Surprise, surprise
.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
I love that meme.
Yeah, anyway, you guys knowwhat we're talking about we'll
have to have bell out of herebecause it's just too funny, um,
no, but it's gonna be a goodone.
Um, we're gonna go intoinsights, takeaways, things that
I think apply to us, that weneed to be ready for as we shift
into this new era of contentcreation which I'm super pumped

(02:42):
about, are you?

Speaker 2 (02:43):
right, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
Yeah, yeah, you're pumped.
You're like, yeah, pumped, allright.
But before we get into it, Ithink we need to do a little bit
of a little bit of banter andwe can have everyone just fast
forward through the chaptermarkers if they don't want to
hear this part.
But what have you been up to?

Speaker 2 (02:59):
Everybody just went to the description.
I know what have I been up to.
Not our, not our super fans,though this is for the super
fans it's funny because weactually will do, uh like
teachable content right andwe're like, and we feel really
good about it, we're like nailedit, like you know you have your
days where you just feel like,whatever it is that you do, you
know you obviously want to bringyour best, bring your a game,
and sometimes you feel like youdo that and you can like hang

(03:20):
your hat with you know, withpride, that day right, and so a
couple times we had that happenat the end of the session, after
like a two-hour session.
We're like delirious, like ourbrains are mush yeah and kim's
saying things like commas commasbut anyway.
So we'll like.
The last time, kim, you know,was digging into having me talk
a little bit about some of myjourney through entrepreneurship

(03:41):
and you know, whatever, and itwas crazy because I feel like
they enjoyed that part more,more.
I know which was, which wasflattering, and I appreciate
that they like they care aboutwho we are as humans, right, but
at the same time I'm like butthe whole, like two hour, that
should have been the thingyou're like.
That was amazing, but that wasfun at the end as well and it
was like no, that was the thingwe were there for.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
Like more of this they like the goss, they just do
yeah, the women love the gossbut even the guys were, they
were, yeah, don't let don't getit twisted.
Guys love the goss listen, youguys like the goss in a
different way, in a differentway, chris watches wrestling pro
wrestling and oh my gosh, it'sall drama, nonsense it's it's.
It's literally like a soapopera for men it is, yeah, it is

(04:23):
at the end of the day, it'slive action improv.
Everyone loves stories.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
With drama, with like a soap opera twist.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
But it's like violence and aggression and yes,
I know it's not real, leave mealone.
Leave me alone.
Star Wars isn't real either.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Put your freaking Jedi crap in the closet.
Leave me alone.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
I like both.
You like Star Wars, you're aStar Wars fan, but the people
that make fun of me the most.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
About that are the same nerds, which I'm a nerd too
, so I get it, but likewrestling.
But then literally they're outfor the premiere of Star Wars at
midnight having lightsaberbattles, one Sith and one Jedi,
and it's like you're for realtelling me that pro wrestling
isn't real.
Yeah, but it's more real thanthis.

(05:06):
Humans are actually falling.
They're actually doing this.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
You already saw the button right.
If you ever want to triggerChris, just talk about how pro
wrestling is not real.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
There's many I'm very aware of this scripted.
So is the opera.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
Oh, we're still on it .
We're still going to keep goingdown the slide.
No, we went to an ice skatingshow on a cruise ship two weeks
ago and it was obviously not.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
It was very choreographed.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
We're going to continue.
It doesn't mean that.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
I don't enjoy or appreciate the athleticism
that's required to be able to dothose things.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
All right, all right, we get it.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
Go to the circus.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
Go to.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
Cirque du Soleil, it's all the same.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
What have you been up ?
To fighting with people overwhether wrestling is real or not
.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
That's where I spend the majority of it.
Go find me on Twitter.
I'm wrestling, okay, buthonestly, it's still real to me.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
For real.
For real, though, We've beenfilming all week.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
We've been filming Y'all this is crazy.

Speaker 1 (05:54):
I mean we got four episodes done, live training,
plus our YouTube channel videos.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
It's a content week I feel like my face is less red
in this episode I know it is.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
We've been having uh, I don't.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
We'll have to talk about it's a whole story.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
But our members know.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
Our members know for sure but we had to leave an old
place we were living becausethey found a construction issue,
massive mold situation.
It was a disaster.
Guys totally actually moved.
And then the new place we wentto some crazy lady put glade
like plugins everywhere.
You know the little, the littleplugins to make your house it
smells good.
And it's like yeah, but it alsomurders you Like it's got
formaldehyde in it and it's allkind of toxic, yeah, all kinds

(06:32):
of toxins and I don't do well,like I can't.
I was the kid that like wentthrough the JC Penney like
perfume and I'm like oh, wouldmake me have a like a headache
reaction, and so for me beinghere, man, my fate.
I've literally been likecaptain red face.
Oh, it's been terrible, it'sbeen really we'll have to do.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
We need to.
Let's make that the nextepisode.
Just like y'all, you guys needto hear our story about mold
it's been a wilderness season.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
Man, the devil is on the move, yeah, so god is chris
got crazy allergies in thisplace.

Speaker 1 (07:01):
I was like I felt like I was gonna die in our
previous place because we hadmold everywhere um.
I think chalene johnson wasjust talking about this she had
this in her rental in miami aswell.
It's a big problem yeah, it'scrazy, but we ended up renting a
super nice place while wefigure out, like, where we want
to build and, uh, brand new,brand new construction and

(07:22):
happens to have like crazy mallsbut it made me extremely.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
Both places, both places, yeah well, I mean,
obviously she did this in theglade, but the that motion
happened at a very new houselike that.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
That's crazy so our titus, our puppy, um?
He's not a puppy, he's, he's 1414 almost died.
It was just crazy.
But we'll have to tell you guysthat story later.
But that's been our life.
It's been content team training.
We just got back from a cruise10-year anniversary.
That was amazing.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
That was super fun.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
How many cruise?
So this is the thing.
There are cruise people andthere's people that are like ew,
the cruise people.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
But if you're a cruise person, I'm a cruise
junkie, it's so much dopamine.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
It's amazing, it's dopamine all the time it's every
hour of the day there'ssomething legit y'all.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
We had go do so much fun that we crashed the last two
days yeah, absolutely, and itwas my five-day cruise I was
like oh my gosh, we went at itway too hard.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
19 year old chris would be so disappointed right
now.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
But but 19 year old chris also slept all day that's
true so there's part of likethat for the night I lived for
the night it was pre-jesus dayssleep till.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah anyway.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
So that's what we've been up to.
It's been fun, yeah, and Ithink that part of like why
we're so hyped about contentright now is just this this
podcast is is awesome.
I'm I'm really loving, like,the new format.
I don't know, I think we'vebeen doing it a certain way for
a long time and maybe it'll pissoff people, I don't know but I,
we're gonna find out.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
We already found out by now yeah, because I think
we're thinking of like, justbatch releasing these right yeah
, so we've already recordedseveral and, like we haven't
released the first one at thetime, we're recording this one,
and so it's like we'll see.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
We may have already gotten slaughtered online.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
By now.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
We're like we're not even gonna release this one no,
we haven't said anythingregardless, it's gonna be like
no one watches it, or or a lotof people watch it, we'll see.
I, you were guys like this isjust a little thing to like
bridge into content anyway.
But, um, we were looking at, aswe were thinking of the podcast
, I was like, oh, we need tohave like a little intro that's
visual, kind of like.

(09:22):
You know, rogan's like train byday, joe rogan, all night, all
day and he died.
Chris died laughing that I knewthat yeah, because I don't
listen as much to the.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
She's not a brogan yeah, I call he should.
He should trademark it thebrogan's.
It's the rogan fans, I know,but it's it's such a good show I
watch the interviews that Ilike.
Some people don't like him now,but they can get over it.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
Get over it immediately, anyway, so he.
It's so funny.
I love how low quality thosefirst episodes were.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
So bad.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
I mean, it was so brutal, you guys.
I watched there's three peopleon the camera.
They were like simulcasting.
Yeah, um, it was like zoomskype, it's skype.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
So skype with video rip pour some.
I know poor skype pour some.
Liquor for skype, but somenon-alcoholic liquor
non-alcoholic liquor.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
Is that what we're doing?
Oh gosh, so anyway.
Uh, super low quality and itwas wild to say like one of the
guys got up and like I could seehis butt crack when the show
finished.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Joey joey diaz.
Yeah, I was like what ishappening?
I mean not that any butt crackis pleasant, but definitely not
joey.
But regardless.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
the point is, of course, you have to hone in on
that.
One thing I said it was nasty.
It's awesome to see people'sstart before you just see where
they're at right now, and Ithink sometimes we just compare
ourselves so much with thecontent game and creating
content and living up to theinfluencer status or the content
creator status as smallbusiness owners, where that's

(11:00):
not our whole thing.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
For Joe, this started as a side gig, like a side
hustle and it took years andyears and years before it.
Actually I don't think hewanted it or intended, it just
happened.
I just want to talk to myfriends.
Because he got the idea fromTom Green who was doing it as
like a spoof and he made it looklike a janky talk show.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
Uh-oh, we're getting the whole nerd background
background.
I love it yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
And then rogan's like well, I'd be cool.
He told him at the time, if yougo watch, it's really
interesting.
But he's like dude, you're alllike you got something here.
And tom green was like, yeah, Idon't know, I'm just because
tom green's just tom green.
You know, I don't remember himor not but comedian like 20
years ago.
He's like a big deal and thenfor him it was just a spoof, it
was just a gag and then, but thewhole time rogan's like
fascinated.
He's like you could see thelight bulbs were going off.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
And then some of the episodes where he started doing
like in person they had like acamera.
It was like they had a cameralike in the corner of a place.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
What were they thinking?
And then?

Speaker 2 (11:48):
there was like a pony wall, I know, and then it's
like rolling half of his head, Iknow, and you could just see
like the top of his head.
So the Skype was actually animprovement over is so awesome

(12:10):
and that's how it got its start.
So we got to get out of our ownway.
I know we have some.
You know we have a lot offemales it's marketing so we
have a lot of females, that thatare attracted to a lot of what
we do and content wise, whathave you, um, but a lot of
perfectionism amongst thefemales?
For sure less amongst the men,the bro case in point like a
rogue and they're like, whateverit is what it is yeah and we're
bad about that, we're notoriousfor that.

Speaker 1 (12:25):
But yeah, some of the women man, it's like oh, you
like, you gotta just get it outthere yeah, yeah, yeah, iterate
over time, absolutely, um and Ithink that's so powerful too is
just like, hey, it doesn't haveto be perfect to actually be
successful, and and I thinkthat's the era that we're in
anyway, right now I feel likewe're having some interesting
clap back to overly polished,overly perfected content.

(12:47):
Yeah, which is why I'm herewith like not even blow drying
my hair.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
I was like it is what it is.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
It's a crazy week and I'm just going to shoot a
podcast.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
It feels too Fox News-y or CNN-y.
It does you know, and likeright now the trust in those
institutions is really, reallylow.
And on both sides it's not goodin either way.
You know so like this feelsreal and people are gravitating
towards real.
With AI, that's going to beeven more of the case.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
Real real human real.
Which is why I love that.
Joe, even though he has like anice setup now and everything
like, he will just show all therandom things that are on his
table.
You know, if the audio goes out, they'll keep it in the final
edit.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
They will guys like I , I gotta pee and then just go
and they just go yeah, like yeah, and they don't cut that out.
They're not like.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
We're gonna take a quick pause for, I know, to
recognize our sponsors it's soawesome and so I think that we
can learn a lot from that um,especially in this, in this
economy and in this era ofcontent creation, because on one
side of things, I feel like weare primed and ready to go as
online business owners, likewe're well positioned to

(13:49):
capitalize on the fact that somany people are like the
consumption of content is out ofcontrol.
I was watching this graph Maybeyou can show it from eMarketer.
Let me just share it.
It's in my Canva docs, but Iwas talking about this to our
clients in our group coachingprogram, tbo plus.
Uh, shameless plug, and one ofthe things that we were talking

(14:12):
about was how consumption indigital media is just erupting I
mean it's it's scary, chrisit's, it's, absolutely, it is
concerning.
It is concerning and then, atsame time, mainstream media is
absolutely plummeting in termsof consumption.
Let me see if I can find thisfreaking graph to show you guys,
because I feel like the visualis too powerful.
But essentially, what'shappening with that and why

(14:34):
that's important we want to payattention.
It's just a fact that we'rehaving the perfect storm,
essentially in digital right now, where consumption is up, trust
is low and therefore people areactively looking for small
business owners and, um you know, independent creators to

(14:57):
consume content from, which isamazing.
I don't know for you if, oh mygoodness, let me give you access
.
I don't know for you, but I, I,I need to rein in my
consumption sometimes because,uh, it's a lot, I will go in and
, like, watch hours of youtubecontent sometimes yeah it's,
it's a lot, uh, and I see myparents who are in their 60s

(15:19):
doing the same thing.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
There's entire programs now that like, let me
help you get out of spending 22and a half hours a day on your
phone um, you know.
And then the screen time appyou know on your actual built
into your iphone.
Like a lot of people areutilizing that so yeah, it's,
it's gotten really out ofcontrol.
But here's the thing, though Ithink what people in my opinion,
I think part of what people aredoing is they are adapting at

(15:41):
least to consuming contentthat's relevant to them, not
just random content on theinternet what's like 76 okay
yeah, and I think also peopleare.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
They're replacing their consumption.
They used to watch a lot of tvand now they're watching youtube
, youtube.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
Or you know they're watching tiktok or whatever.

Speaker 1 (15:57):
100 so that's that's a huge opportunity for online
business, because we are primedand ready to go.
Not only are they wanting toconsume content, they also want
to do business with people whoare not institution yep,
institutionalized.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
So independent, so I love that.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
That's awesome so if you, if you look at the red line
, really what that'srepresenting is the amount of
time spent with digital media.
Look at that that's the redline, right, and so it's
projected up to 2026, um,whereas like, look, just 2019,
right?
So like the consumption isgoing absolutely crazy it was
almost 50, 50 split it was a 5050 split and now we're seeing 15

(16:35):
increase.
You know up in the different umdifferent years.
And then of course that blueline.
Uh, that is the traditionalmedia, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean
that's funny, because even thisis true, even among I mean this
is an anecdote, but amongst.
And then of course that blueline that is the traditional
media.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean that's terrible.
It's funny because even this istrue, even among I mean this is
an anecdote but amongst eventhe older generations.
We didn't see that before theywere like you know, because they
grew up on the trusted WalterCronkite, you know, and it's
like they watch.
But now, even like my mom, shewatches her YouTube shows.
She's like, oh, I watch all ofthem, but she never tells me

(17:06):
that she's watching the news.
You know she's watching.
You know Megyn Kelly orsomething she's watching you
know, those type shows and she'sgot a whole lineup now that she
just watches on YouTube,Despite the fact that they've
got a brand new TV hanging abovetheir brand new fireplace.
They just did.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
It's like nope the phone, she actually will turn
off the TV to watch the phone,the TV yeah.
And when your dad turns it off,she's like turn that off.
Yeah, they're liars, they are,she's not wrong.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
Clearly I didn't fall far from that tree.
Clearly she's my mom.
I mean, it's real, it's true,it is real.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
And I feel like they've been just caught in so
many.
It's just they're so out oftouch with reality, you know,
and so, like they've, we can goon and on and on about how
they're carving their own grave,in my opinion.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
But what I love about the mainstream media, not the
mainstream, not the elderlypeople no, no, they're not out
of touch.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
That's what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
Someone's gonna clip that I know someone's definitely
gonna if this podcast everbecomes something, you're so
insensitive, I keep talkingabout senior citizens.
No, I'm just waiting for theabsolute barrage.
It's all good.
It's happened in the pastPeople are like.
Kim is so cute when she talkedabout Canva and Trello.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
And now it's like who is this?

Speaker 2 (18:19):
lioness roaring.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
Thank you, Lisa Bevere.
With her obnoxious husband no,most people love on us.
They're amazing, no, but butyou know how it is.
There's only like one person.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
Okay, but here's the problem, and this is a teachable
right.
Right, like the people that saythose things, the the easter
egg people that don't actuallyhave a profile picture in most
cases like philip last night at1 am with his two subscribers
philip, did you watch the wholevideo?
no, he didn't.
So he was, yeah, giving kimlike a little lecture on the
comments of one of her shorts,literally from the short, but it

(18:53):
is what it is.
So the problem is is that wehave this negativity bias right,
and so I always tell peopleimagine you have a restaurant
you go to and you maybe go toofrequently.
Have you left them a reviewonline on google?
Yet nope, and most peoplehaven't.
But if you had one badexperience, immediately you know
, like people leave bad reviewsand so it's the same, it's the
same behavior and comments andso, unfortunately, we're like

(19:13):
well, my audience does not likethat.
I'm like no, the two percent ofpeople that are a holes, that
bitch about everything.
They're the ones that didn'tlike it.
So you know, we have peoplethat come out of the woodwork
and we've never heard of thembefore.
They've been following us for adecade and they're like.
I simply love you guys.
I've watched your stuff for allthe years.
I'm like who is you Like?
Where were you when?

(19:34):
All you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
So and they'll be like.
I specifically hired youbecause of all the crazy things
you say.
Like you're just.
You're just true.
Yeah, I love that you'respeaking truth and you just tell
it like it is, and there's nosugar coating.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
I think people thought that, like when we
started, you know being more.
I don't want to say moreourselves, but that wasn't the
norm on our industry wasactually just speak truth, right
.
It was like it had to becurated and perfect and buttoned
up and no, you didn't go therespeaking out about things that
were more value driven or faithrelated or whatever that like.
Oh my gosh, the mutiny.
it was going to be an Exodus andthey're going to go out of

(20:08):
business and it, I would say thedepth of relationship that
we've built with super fans One,has been, I mean, multiplied by
, by.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
I don't even know.
It's incalculable.
We need to do an episode aboutthat.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
We're going to.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
We have to talk about this, but I didn't feel like
the hate really was that itwasn't that bad.
I mean, okay, when we got it itwas demonic, like it was so bad
.
It was like I'm going to likehunt you down and all the
threats, right, but like it wasso infrequent and the positive
feedback was so wildly positive.
We were like oh, people reallyare craving this.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
How much would you say the pros outweigh the cons,
like if you had to put a numberto?

Speaker 1 (20:48):
it.
I would do it 10,000 times.
I wouldn't run a business anyother way.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
But I'm saying like in relation to how much more
positive?

Speaker 1 (20:55):
Oh my gosh, it was like Both in frequency, or both
in volume, but also inPercentage wise.
Yeah, would you say it was like90 than one percent.
That's what I thought.
Yeah, less than one percent say90, but that was understanding
it.
Yeah, less than one percent, 99.
It was nothing but positive, no, and, and I think we gained
more customers than we lost thatwe're willing to a lot pay like

(21:16):
super fan level.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
Yeah, a hundred percent, I don't know for sure.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
Um, just because the value alignment was so important
.
I think, look guys, we're in,we're in a cultural moment,
we're in a spiritual moment.
We're not saying that like wedid it to capitalize, we didn't
do it for that reason?

Speaker 2 (21:28):
No, it wasn't even a thought.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
We were bracing for impact, we thought, okay, like
we might get completely canceled, and then we realized, wait, no
, you can only get canceled ifyou decide to get canceled.
Second of all, I think we hadmore people who aligned with our
values than we realized.
Yeah, that was really cool.
And then, for me, we had aserious conversation about this

(21:51):
and we're like, okay, if we'regoing to die on a hill, it's
going to be this hill.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yeah, like this is the hill we're willing to die on
.
It kind of had to be that hill.
Absolutely.
Once you lose the ability forfree speech no, it's done.
Any nation state in historywhere that's happened, it's very
soon thereafter.
It's not good things, yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
So we saw the writing on the wall and I think the
Holy Spirit really was nudgingus, and that was the first.
So that was crazy.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
For sure.

Speaker 1 (22:16):
I don't think we did it perfectly.
I think we would have.
I would have changed a fewthings, but ultimately I'm very
glad that we did it and I'm sureat some point someone's going
to go digging it.
They're going to get mad aboutthings we said.
But I think we need to evolveas a culture and understand
everyone changes theirperspective.
Everyone grows as you mature inyour thinking and you're

(22:40):
allowed to change yourperspective.
And so, yeah, it was a wildride and we're still kind of on
it.

Speaker 2 (22:47):
I found myself being really sentimental and nostalgic
, and that's very unlike me.
I'm more of like the future,and I'm not saying the future
isn't bright because it is, butI found myself being a little
bit nostalgic in some ways and alittle bit sentimental of like,
longing for it, and I thinkpart of it is that you know back
in the day, like you would knowor you didn't know at all
people's differences, Like youknow if your neighbors voted a

(23:09):
different way than you did.
Um, you know, my parents tendedto be more conservative and
then my neighbors wereNortheastern hardcore Democrats
that moved south, and so wewould actually just joke around
about how they had a blue signin the yard.
We had a red sign in our yard,Like it is what it is, and it
was never like a thing theyweren't like.
Oh, these racist neo you knowwhat I mean.
Like it was, like what All theisms and the aces, like no we

(23:31):
just on tax percentages, likethat's really what it is and we
don't agree that.
Like that maybe in some socialprograms that we think are
you're getting too much fun.
Like it was nuanced things thatdidn't speak to like you as an
actual human, that you literallywere like some savage beast
that should be, is unforgivable,you know what I mean.

(23:51):
Like there's no redeemingqualities about you whatsoever,
and I think it was because we wedidn't lead with that.
I think identity politics, likeit, defined who you are as a
human above all else, and it putyou in a box.
You're a red person, you're ablue person, and that's such
tribalistic thinking um.
Kim knows I'm.
I refuse to put myself in anyboxes in any way in my life
except the marriage box, exceptthe marriage box.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
Hashtag win don't, don't, don't even try.
I will cut you.
I'm just kidding.

Speaker 2 (24:19):
But I don't know, I just I don't like I'm a
nonconformist and I think a lotof entrepreneurs are that way.
We're nonconformist and that'swhy we're good at
entrepreneurship, because wecarve our own path.
But anyway.
So for me, to view it from theoutside, looking or whether it
was whatever, it wasn't adefining quality of who you were
and, moreover, if somebody wasdifferent than you, you're like

(24:42):
cool.
It's a characteristic of thembut, a very, very low on the
priority list, totem pole wiseof who they are.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
But overall I love this person because I know them
to be X, y and Z first, and youdon't have to agree with
everybody to have a relationshipor learn from each other, which
is so stupid.
But that's Continue.
Sorry, this intolerance.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
It's so ridiculous.
We have to be more mature thanthat.
It's caused a lot of issues anda lot of division.
I think it's just so ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
So this episode got real real.
I almost wish that we wouldn'thave talked about we were going
to cover the Kajabi contentreport.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
So back to Kajabi.
No.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
Because we should have a whole episode just
talking about this, but I dothink it's important to call it
out because I just saw a lot ofnastiness in the online space
when all that was going down.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
I mean you got canceled from a conference.
I did?

Speaker 1 (25:37):
I got canceled.

Speaker 2 (25:38):
Just for being a Christian conservative.
The person's like yeah, you'reright, you shouldn't be there.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
It's like what conference that I had done
before and pulled the highestnumbers for charity.
Anyway, the point is that thisperson was supposed to be the
kind of person who's like, likethey lived their values out loud
and they were going to beuplifting to minorities you know
, and that's why they got,that's why they approached you
all the super woke things.

(26:03):
No, I had done it before um butoriginally because you're no,
not this is someone else.
You have to do someone else.
Yeah, this is a different.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
Well, this has happened numerous times, many
times kim kim, the tokenhispanic oh yeah she's the token
brown girl at our conferenceguys see, see, see, we have a
brown person.
It's like what?
She's not brown my brotherslook, I'm, I am the I'm as white
, like I'm as european male.
I know because I'm 23.
I'm like 99.7 european, likenorthern european are we really

(26:30):
going down this path?
Because I'm you're setting meup for a real rant.
I'm gonna go on a rant.
I know I'm gonna trigger.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
I'm gonna go on a rant, don't get me started
anyway.
The point is that it was justridiculous and stupid and all
around insane, um, and superimmature.
I was so disappointed by thatjust because I thought, you know
, people need to see differingviews right now, um, and people
coming together to collaboratein the space where we have

(26:56):
totally different views, andit's cool.
We can talk about that.
But no you have to be like, oh,the trump supporter, let's
distance myself I don't know,like your audience is good, I'm
like my audience paid for allyour stuff last time.
What?
Are you talking about?
You know yep anyway, it's fine,it is what it is, but it's not
fine.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
That's the problem it's not fine.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
It's not fine, but we're getting through it.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
And that's important.
Fortunately, I think, theprevailing I think things are
shifting.
Yeah, there's definitely thecooler.
I think we got to a point wherewe're like no, this is too much
, and I think most people.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
I don't want to go in that rabbit hole because
there's a whole and still,people will be like I'm so
disappointed in you and it'slike I'm disappointed in you.
Yeah, I'm disappointed that youcan't handle someone else's
perspective and I didn't inviteyou to be here.
Like the door's right there.
Like keep scrolling, it's allgood, like I love you.
I have no problems with peoplewho think differently than me,
but I do have a problem when youstart jumping on my platform

(27:51):
and trying to tell me how I needto think on my platform.

Speaker 2 (27:54):
No, some of our, some of our most long tenured super
fan clients are like almost onthe exact opposite of most of
our positions oh yeah, like andwe have like incredible
relationships yeah no, it's abeautiful thing and I think you
learn from people's like look nofurther people you said be like
how is it being in aninterracial marriage?
Don't get crisp.

(28:15):
But you're just what ishappening with this episode,
where are we going?

Speaker 1 (28:20):
yeah, you're, I'm, I'm about to go crazy here, but
I like, like I don't thinkyoutube can handle what I'm
about to say.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
We're gonna the show.
The show is gonna do well, andthen it's gonna go shut down.
That's what's gonna happen.
That's what's gonna happen.
You're gonna have to find us.
You're to have to find us deepon Reddit or something somewhere
.
That's the only place we canlive.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
Oh my gosh, so stupid .

Speaker 2 (28:39):
But future episodes will be on X only because that's
the only place we can beplatformed.
Rumble, rumble.
Find us on Rumble.
I'm going to die, but I willsay this, though.
I will say this, though I havegained much in my life with

(28:59):
being exposed to somebody thatcame from a completely different
culture than me.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
Are you going to get woke points for that?
No, hell, no, that's not whatI'm after.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
I know, I'm just kidding.
In any case, you can learn andgain perspective about when you
have conversation aboutdifferences in people.
Yeah, and sometimes I think wepaint a narrative in our minds
about why people are the waythey are Right.
So like how could you possiblyvote for Donald Trump, kind of
thing, right, yeah, well, haveyou talked to that person?

(29:29):
Have you heard about theirlived experience?
Have you heard how it'saffected their life?
So, for example, for us assmall business owners, maybe you
feel the same way.
Dude Bidenomics was brutal forsmall business owners, like
brutal.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
Not just that, we had clients and members and
longtime followers who weremessaging us like I'm going to
lose my house in two weeks.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
Yes, what do I do?
It's like wait what?

Speaker 1 (29:53):
So that's the kind of stuff we're dealing with, all
like the last four years.
Constantly it's like smallbusinesses are under attack,
small businesses are gettingshut down.
Small businesses are likestruggling in a lot of ways and
we had plenty of clients whowere doing well, but the ones
that were not, it was so muchemotional, um, you know, lift

(30:14):
for us to to walk alongside themthrough crisis after crisis
every day crises, um, and Idon't think people realize that.
I think a lot of the people whoare talking about oh,
everything's kind of we're souplifted and whatever, and
empowered, it's like you.
You don't live in reality.
First of all, you're socompletely out of touch.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
Yeah, um, and that really supports support local
business no until it's time tosupport local business 100%, and
then you want nothing to dowith support local business.
So during the C word thathappened in 2020, which I don't
think you can say on YouTube, soI'm not going to say it but the
thing that shut everything down, that everybody was staying
indoors and wearing masks, aboutright.
So Walmart was allowed to stayopen, mcdonald's was allowed to

(30:52):
stay open.
Oh yeah, and Amazon do you, youknow go do the research like
literally fact check me on this.
Amazon's market share expansionduring that season is insane.
It's insane.
So local mom and pop businessbeen in the family for
generations, or people like himand I that were starting a bit.
Thank god we were alreadyonline because I used to run a
moving business, as you guysknow if you've been following

(31:12):
our story and I, I have a buddy,I have a friend it was a mentee
of mine moving company.
That's why he sought me out.
Somebody's like oh you gottatalk to Chris.
He did that really successfully.
Go talk to Chris about it.
So we became bros.
We're both from Cincinnati.
I call him my, my brother froma different mother but anyway,
so he it shut him down.
It shut him down that situationdid and I know what he put into
that.
Yeah, I know the sacrifice heput into that.

(31:34):
I know the time and effort heput into that.
Yeah, I know the sacrifice heput into that.
I know the time and effort heput into that.
And nobody was there rallyingfor small business.
You had some guys that werelike raising money here and
there or whatever, but you knowthat was not a central focus.
So we have to champion forthose people, because that's
what we do, those are our people, that's our tribe.
And so when you relegatesomebody to one thing and you

(31:56):
don't know that that's theirstory, that it literally took
their livelihood, that itliterally took something they
poured their soul into, that isso grossly unfair.
It is absolutely ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (32:04):
It's not just that, chris, it's just the fact that
they didn't even ask.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
No, of course not.
Not a single.
It's pure assumptions.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
I'm talking like friends, people who followed for
a long time.
They have no capacity to evensay hey like.
Can you tell me why?
Yeah you support this person orcan?
You tell me why you lean thisway or that way.
Yeah, do you know how manytimes we've asked our liberal
friends like tell me what youthink about this, what is your
perspective?

Speaker 2 (32:29):
I want to be challenged on my view in your
words, not in the cnn talkingpoints yeah, yeah, tell me what
you actually think.
Yeah, right, it's the it's thedon lemon talking points.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
It's like rip don lemon, no, not not actually, I
mean the show now we're reallygonna get canceled.
Gosh chris.
I feel like we need tore-record the intro to this
episode because it's so good,but it's going in a very
different direction.
It's okay, welcome to theroller coaster they're gonna hit
youtube's, gonna show them atitle and it's gonna be like

(33:00):
they're gonna get so like rugpulled I was besmirched I don't
even know where to take it fromhere.
I don't even know how do we getback on track I think it does
speak to, though.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
We went through a lot .

Speaker 1 (33:13):
We have gone through a lot socially.

Speaker 2 (33:14):
we've gone through a lot economically as a collective
, as a lot Socially we've gonethrough a lot Economically we've
gone through a lot as acollective.
yeah, now the good news isbringing it back home here is it
did affect the outlook for thecreator economy.
It did affect the outlook forcreating content on the internet
, because now it's never beenmore important than ever to
create content on the internet.
All that graph that we showedyou guys, it was look where it

(33:36):
started 2019, we're at a 50-50split.
Now, look at it, we're at 70-30.
Now, what was that caused by?
People were constantly perusingthe web.
They're finding YouTubechannels they never thought
about before.
They're getting on platformsthey've never even been on
before.
They're starting new profiles,like I know people that got on X
for the first time ever becauseElon bought X and now they
spend an extended amount of timethere.

(33:56):
You had TikTok.
Was?
Is it going to get banned?
Is it not going to get banned?
Well, that brought interest andintrigue there.
People learned hey, I want tolearn how to use Zoom because I
can't meet in person.
So, all of a sudden, everybodybecame Zoom experts.
Our people prior to they didn'twant anything to do with Zoom.
Now, everything's Zoom, zoomand Zoom.
Right, it's just likeeverything's.
And so we we we catalyzeddigital adoption, and so how

(34:19):
that plays into you guys is now,it's a must, it's not a maybe
with content creation, it is amust, and if you're not doing it
, if you're not thinking aboutit, uh, if it's not on your
purview, if you're not fastabout doing it, if it's not, uh,
relevant to your person, you'resimply not going to keep up.
I mean, I don't, I don't wantto be like the negative Nancy
here.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
But you have to.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
It's an absolute must because of the things we've
been talking about.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
Yeah, we just got off a strategy call with a client
and one of the things that wewere sharing with her is like
y'all speed, like this season isall about going faster and
content consumption is here andwe need to capitalize on that
window.
You do not want to look backfive years ago and wonder what,
if, what if I had actually, like, gone in my lane?

(35:04):
Locked in, got serious actuallydone the thing that I have been
, you know, called to do, reallybecause it's a calling for a
lot of us like you're helpingpeople um actually achieve
breakthrough and you're you'reactually showing up for the
people that God intended you toserve.
And if you don't do the videos,if you don't do the emails, if
you don't do the blogs, thepodcasts, you're in disobedience
in many ways, because you'renot actually stewarding the

(35:27):
blessing and the gifting and thecalling in a way that will be
prosperous.
And I think God is.
One thing that I've noticedabout God is like he is a he.
Every single one of god'sdealings is profitable.
Like he doesn't do things thatare not going to be profitable,

(35:48):
that are going to serve apurpose, even when it seems like
he is uh and he does.
He's I mean obviously, crazysacrifices for humanity, right?

Speaker 2 (35:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
But he actually thinks of us highly enough, he
loves us enough to commit thisbeautiful act of grace and
kindness and sacrifice.
But it is profitable for him todo it.
Meaning like there is going tobe.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
It's going to bear fruit.
It's going to bear fruit.
It's is going to be uh, theycould all bear fruit it's going
to bear fruit.

Speaker 1 (36:18):
It's going to actually be something that that
grows beyond him yeah and Ithink that's a beautiful thing,
because I think sometimes weonly think about yeah oh, you
know, we need to steward thegift and keep it.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
You know, kind of like the parable of the talents
yeah, we're all running, we'regonna bury it, we're all
non-profits, it's safe to buryit right.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
it's risky to go out and do something that can expand
it and make it bigger and andactually multiply the gift, um,
and so sometimes I think thatwe're like hiding and just
thinking that that's gonna beblessed by god and it's not like
we gotta steward the gifting ina really smart way and I don't

(36:57):
think we think that way.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
No, and I think that a lot of people are feeling that
that that calling a lot, I meanwe know, because we talked to a
lot of business owners, guys,and that's a resounding thing
we're hearing is I just feellike I need to go for it.
I feel like God is pushing me.
I feel like God is telling meto do this.
I feel like we hear that allthe time and in fact, there's
many people that came from moreof an agnostic background,

(37:20):
client-wise, that are like Idon't know man, something's
different, something's weird,like I feel, and now they're
talking about praying andtalking about God and it's like
it's a beautiful thing for us tobe a part of.
We didn't like we didn't startthis and I feel like God in many
ways is like turning it intothat which is really powerful,
and it also feels like aresponsibility to me.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
Oh, it's huge, oh my gosh it's heavy.

Speaker 2 (37:44):
Yeah, it is, and so it doesn't feel like it's just
like help people with you knowtheir Trello productivity and
they're, you know, using Canva.
It's like it just feels likeit's so much bigger than that
now.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
It's very, yeah, but it's like it just feels like
it's so much bigger than that.
Now it's very, yeah, it's, butit's crazy how god like when
you're, when you're faithful inone thing, he opens the doors
for the other thing and the next, thing, and the next.
Thing and so I think we have tobe we have to be more conscious
about actually following thething that god is putting in our
hearts and doing that withexcellence and so I think
sometimes we just we just takeit for granted and we think it's

(38:17):
the simple thing.
It's like it's not the simplething, Like content is just a
vehicle for you to actually getin front of the people that
you're called to serve.
That's all it is.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
I tell people that all the time.
I'm like do you know how muchbusiness owners prior to the
internet would have killed forstuff like?

Speaker 1 (38:31):
this, I know it's like we have a direct line and
it's free.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
You can get directly in front of your people
thousands of them for free,right Like.
You don't have to get theprimest real estate to get foot
traffic or go spend all thiscrazy money on print ads, like
what.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
Because I remember early I have a cousin that was
in construction in aconstruction business for home
new homes construction and theywere paying for like radio ads.
And when I was telling him whatwe were doing in social media,
he's like, wait a minute, what?
Like you're getting a dollarfor lead?
He's like, dude, we're spentlike.
And he told me I was justsaying I remember what's radio
ad wise, but it was insane, likeevery time they just played the

(39:06):
radio spot that he was payingfor.
But he was like ready to throwthe whole playbook.
He couldn't believe it like hecould not believe because he was
doing the old stuff back thenit was like 10 plus years ago.
But man, like people absolutelywould have given an arm and a
leg to be able to do what youhave the opportunity to do right
now by just turning on yoursilly phone and hitting record
or creating something on canvafor free and posting on the
internet like it's unbelievable.

(39:27):
And then we, we lose sight ofthat, that opportunity.
Now it with more people doingit.
Sure, there's saturation, yougot to cut through the noise and
that's what we help people do,right, but just getting started
and putting things out andlearning those tools yeah it's a
it's the biggest step in theright direction I think so too.

Speaker 1 (39:43):
So let's talk about so.
Do you think we're ever goingto get into a report?
Let's talk about it no, no, butI put us in the corner.
Here's what I love if you goall the way thank you, we're in
time out shut up and get to thereport.
The chapters are going to behilarious on this episode.

Speaker 2 (39:59):
The chapters are going to be hilarious.
It's going to be literally likethe last five minutes At minute
47,.
Chris and Kim in timeout.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
Okay, so a really interesting report from Kajabi.
Remember, guys, that they'reactually positioning it to set
up their platform and it'simportant to kind of understand
here.
But I love that Kajabi has alot of data and so one of the
ways in which they're they'resharing this, I think it's
really funny.
The creator economy was builton creators, not for them,

(40:27):
exactly while social platformshave crashed in on the talent,
time and influence of creators.
The real or have cashed in thereal value has always come from
the people behind the contentyeah now the power dynamic is
shifting.
Oh, now the power dynamic isshifting right.
Creators are stepping intotheir full potential, not just
as influencers, but asentrepreneurs they're owning

(40:48):
their audience, their productsand, more importantly, their
revenue.
Now here's the thing.
This is what we've been talkingabout for literally five years.
Um, we even have.
Maybe we should show ourinfluencers versus entrepreneurs
graph but essentially it'scrazy to me that all this time
you know we started with theinfluencer game and then that

(41:10):
shifted into like I'm not aninfluencer, I'm a content
creator, because there'sartistry behind, in my opinion,
the way that I differentiate.
It's like if you're aninfluencer, you're usually like
on the internet, talking abouthow great you are and how
beautiful you are and you'reposing on instagram and you're
modeling and then you're sharingproducts, right.
But content creators have likean artistry behind their content
and that's where most peoplelike come in with, like you know

(41:32):
, beautiful cinematic youtubevideos, crazy B-roll, like there
is a craft to creating contentand content creators have like
dominated that space probablyfor like the last four or five
years, and now things areshifting and I always, always,
always, we get a lot of creatorscome into our membership or our

(41:52):
courses because they want tostart a business, because they
don't, or a client for coaching,now too For coaching but they
don't want to continue abusiness because they don't, or
apply for coaching, now too Forcoaching, but they don't want to
continue having to work forother people, meaning they, you
know, you kind of basically liveon brand deals and sponsorships
Working for the next brand deal, and that sucks and they're
always lowering the bar for you.
They're always lowering the bar.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
I'm seeing a shift in that, though I know I'm seeing
it get a little bit morecompetitive.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
We'll talk more about that, but essentially like,
this is a huge nod to onlinebusinesses the way that.
I think of it Because for areally long time, I think online
businesses have felt and that'swho we talk to People get mad
at me when I talk aboutinfluencers versus entrepreneurs
.
I don't care that you get mad,I'm not talking to influencers,
I'm talking to business owners.
So for a long time, we justmodeled what influencers were

(42:37):
doing, what content creatorswere doing, and we need to
understand that we're running avery different business model
Now.
Creators are starting to stepinto the entrepreneurship game
slowly and I'm like guys, whyhave we been so slow to this?
You gotta control your revenuestreams.
You can't just rely on theplatform or a sponsorship deal.
But that's really come to ahead this year.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
I think too.
Commerce is commerce, as Kimwould say.
Commerce is changing a lot, andso you know, we have internet
money now.
You know, like guys are, peopleare trading coins that they
launched this morning from theirbed.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
That are literally named fart coin.
I mean'm not joking, guys oneof the biggest gainers this year
in cryptocurrency was namedfart coin for real.
So we we're still.
We're still adapting to thesedigital environments.
What has value and some peoplehave a really hard time adapting
to those things, and so youknow is a guy that's running a

(43:34):
twitch channel playing videogames, which I am engaging.
I watch a lot of guys.
They're making tens ofthousands of dollars, sometimes
in a stream, right In a stream.
Like are they entrepreneurs?
And by the literal definitionof entrepreneurship, I would say
they are, and so I think thecreator would not Okay.

Speaker 1 (43:51):
Here's why.
Here's why they'reself-employed at the very least.
Self-employed a hundred percent.
They're self-employed at thevery least.
They're self-employed 100%.
They're self-employed Becausethey don't create anything new.
No, I think.
For me one it's how do you runyour business Are?
You serious about it.
Most of these Twitch gamers,it's actually a bad thing, if

(44:13):
they monetize at all, and sobasically they're living for
tips.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
This is what they're doing.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
They're living for tips.
This is what they're doing.
They're living for tips thatthere's no business model and
they don't treat or act like abusiness in that they don't have
an actual structure, and Iwould say that the umbrella then
is self-employment.
My second thing, my secondrequirement, is you need to
create something of value thatsolves a problem that's
independent from your contentyes meaning, do you have even
merch?
do you have merch right, like,do you have anything that's a

(44:45):
product right that solves aproblem, that creates value,
there's a value exchange that istangible?
Because I think the problem isthat we got into this idea that
and maybe this is going tochange.
I hope that it changes.
I think content in itself isextremely valuable.
I think media has monetizedcontent is that we got into this
idea that and maybe this isgonna change.
I hope that it changes.
I think content in itself isextremely valuable.
I think media has monetizedcontent forever right, like
that's what news shows are,that's what the newspaper is,

(45:07):
that's what magazines are, butonly if you own the distribution
and you don't.
So, essentially, contentcreators are a show right,
they're a show within thenetwork.
Yeah, they're not the network.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
It's like network marketers.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
Yeah, they sell somebody else's product.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
They sell someone else's product.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
So you're basically like an independent sales rep.

Speaker 1 (45:28):
Right.
That's really what you are.
100% Right For me.
So you're an independentcontent rep.
The differentiator is that youown the actual product.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
That's a fair distinction.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
And that you have created somewhat of a
distribution channel that youown, aka an email list, an SMS
list, some kind of contact thatif the network shuts you down,
aka Twitch, what are you goingto do?
Do you have a business?
No, you don't have a business.

Speaker 2 (45:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:56):
So see what I'm saying.
What is our number one rule inbusiness?

Speaker 2 (46:00):
you, don't build your business on someone else's
business.
Yeah, for, for a business owner, absolutely, but but even some
of these creator guys.
They get, they get, they getrug pulled.

Speaker 1 (46:05):
I think they're 1099 contractors in a way.
I mean you can think of it thatway.
I'm not trying to lower theirstatus, I'm just saying if
twitch went away, could theysurvive as a business?
No, they can't.
So that's not a business.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
They have to be to the next thing, and a lot of
them actually, based on what wewere talking about earlier, they
had to go to Rumble becausethey got excommunicated from
YouTube.

Speaker 1 (46:26):
Exactly, and that was it.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
Because the whole thing was them just streaming on
YouTube.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
Right.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
And just talking about whatever culture whatever.
About whatever culture,whatever, yeah.
And then they had to theyliterally had to move their
entire audience and they onlyretained a small fraction,
because you're asking people toadopt a new platform that they
don't they're not accustomed tousing.

Speaker 1 (46:42):
Yeah, so maybe in that case do you think, would
you think they have a businessbecause they were able to move
their platform?

Speaker 2 (46:47):
over to someone else, right?

Speaker 1 (46:48):
so no, I don't think so um just based on the fact
they don't have a product oryeah.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
so it's tough, right, because like, let's say you
have a media company, so likePatrick Bet-David, right.
Like would you say he has abusiness, or would you say A
thousand percent Right.

Speaker 1 (46:59):
But why?
Because he has a distributionchannel.
It's not just the PatrickBet-David show doesn't just live
on YouTube or on the syndicatednetworks.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
He's just utilizing those.
He can utilize them.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
And at any point in decides he's going to launch his
own app and be completelyindependent.
He has a big enough audience towhere I think people would
actually follow them there.
Follow him there, not justcommunity wise, but like email
is texas an actual businessasset.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
Yeah, but I could be wrong about that and I and I
hope this changes guys it needsto change there's silos now
within self-employment, andthat's the, that's the exciting
part, I think, becauseregardless of where you decide
to go, obviously we're on moreon the like.
Have something that's proof,tangible, you can take somewhere
else, you can migrate.
You're not risking the biscuitright on somebody else's
platform because you have tolook at his borrowed traffic

(47:49):
it's all borrowed and if thatgoes away and don't think that
it won't, because it does andeven if it doesn't go away, it's
less it.
Kim talks about platform cyclesand it's so true because we saw
this from a very early and thismaybe people were like why are
they so salty?
We saw this happen to peoplewhere they literally lost their
livelihoods because they builttheir whole business on Facebook
.
In fact, they didn't even buildtheir own website.

(48:10):
Facebook used to allow you tobuild like a little website
within Facebook on your actualpage, and so people were doing
that instead of actuallybuilding a website that lived
outside of Facebook.
And when Facebook became more,pay to play because what ends up
happening?
And people don't think about itthis way.
But these platforms reach acertain point where they don't
want you to be just benefitingfor free anymore.
They want you to have to spendads there.

(48:31):
They want people transacting onthe platform because that's how
they make money, right?
So now they have paid,verification and all that which
they didn't have before and theyalways should have.
But they would get to a pointlike instagram same thing, like
everybody's the organic reach isamazing.
You got to go to instagram.
Well, it hits critical mass.
They have enough users on theplatform where they don't need
to do that anymore.
And now they're like well,let's flip the switch.

(48:51):
And all of a sudden, now notonly are you in a sea of other
people, but now they're tryingto monetize those people because
, guess what?
You built your whole thingthere and so, in order to even
reach the people that you earned, right, most people I think
only 4% of your followers onInstagram actually see your
stuff 4%.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
And so now guess what I need to at least get to the
people I paid for?
Great, you can run an ad, andso you have to think about that
way.
So I like thinking about itfrom the perspective of hey, do
you borrow it or do you own it?
That's why we talk aboutbuilding your email list.

(49:27):
We talk about building yourtext list that transfers from
borrowed to owned, to where nowyou can say cool, if these guys
want to get janky or if theplatform cycle is not conducive,
so people leave the platform,like they're not on Facebook
anymore.
We saw that happen, we saw thatdie.
We saw people move away fromFacebook and those people that
built their whole website onthat Facebook page, they were
gone-ski.

(49:48):
I mean, they lost theirbusiness.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
And now you know, I feel like so many people are
waking up to that.

Speaker 2 (49:53):
Obviously, creators are waking up to that because
they're having to, becausethey've gotten taken advantage
of or mistreated.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
Or the economy is not as good, and so brands are
pulling brand deals like crazy.
It's true.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
So there's that they're having to actually have
something.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:06):
But if you go back to the report real quick, I want
to.
It's interesting that they makethis Kajabi makes this
distinction betweenentrepreneurial creators and
social first graders, which Ithink is fascinating, because I
didn't even read this and thisis exactly.
I mean, I did, but not Iglanced through it, Social first
creators.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
that's interesting.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
Notice there are three recommendations, or there
are three requirements.
Number one build audiences insocial media, but don't rely on
it for income.
Number two invest in their ownproducts like courses, coaching
programs and memberships.
Yep you gotta solve a realproblem in the market.
And, yep, you got to solve areal problem in the market.
And three own and control theirrevenue streams rather than
depending on social platforms soimportant, where social first

(50:42):
creators rely almost exclusivelyon social media for income,
generate income mainly throughplatform payouts and brand
partnerships, have limitedrevenue control due to
dependency on social platforms.
Chris, how long have we beentalking about?

Speaker 2 (50:54):
this, oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
I am so happy to see this y'all because this is so
important so many people likeChris were talking about, like
you remember, when Periscope wasaround.
They built their entirebusiness on Periscope and then
Periscope got shut down and itwas like gone, so you got to own
your business.
If YouTube goes away, ifpodcasts go away, if Facebook

(51:16):
ads go away, chris and I willstill have a business because we
can actually go out and look atother distribution channels and
say well, we're going to do JVaffiliate partnerships and we're
going to do webinars with otherpeople in our industry who
already have audiences.
We're going to use our OPAmethod.
We're going to get in front ofthose people.
Maybe we use SMS, maybe westart doing in-person workshops.
There's so many things thatneed to transfer in your

(51:39):
business to set it up for thelong haul.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
Yeah, we've talked a lot about building your email
list, guys, and it's like, whydo I need my email list?
They're right there on social.
It's like, no, imagine if youwere out at a conference and you
wanted to get people on yourCRM so you could follow up with
them.
Right Like sure, you cancontinue to go back to the
conferences and communicate withthem again.
But what happens if thatconference is not a conference
anymore?
Yeah, there's no way to connectwith those people.
But if you got them in your CRM, guess what?

(52:05):
So I always try to put digitalthings into real terms for
people, because I don't thinkthey think about it that way.
No-transcript anymore.
Everything moved to tiktok.

(52:25):
Whatever the case may be, it'llI have to take our to be
something else.
Right, it's always the nextthing.
Um, you could always messageyour people, text your people,
email your people.
Hey, we're here now because wefollow up via our crm, which is
really what having email list is.
It's just a massive crm really.

Speaker 1 (52:39):
That's one of the reasons we launch our own app in
20 100 get them on your app,get them in your environment.
Now, that's owned, not borrowedexactly so if you scroll down a
little bit more I want to gointo.
The more platform instability,the more creator anxiety.
So we're seeing a lot ofplatform volatility.
You see fear around platformvolatility has increased by 2x
over the last year.
Um, particularly, I think whatthey're referencing is a tiktok

(53:01):
ban yeah so it says social firstcreators, meaning people who do
not have actual businesses, umhave a 400 percent or express a
400 percent higher concern aboutthe ban, then, um, they're
positioning Kajabi creatorsbecause they're talking about
entrepreneurs, like businessowners, and so y'all everyone

(53:23):
needs a business, Everyone needsa business.
We've been saying this forever.
It doesn't matter whether youare a creator style, you know
personal persona, or you presentyourself as a business.
You need to have a business onthe back end.
It's no longer okay to justrely on social media, and this

(53:44):
is this is the anxiety that'scoming when the real stuff gets
real.
So, we're in a cycle of, likebad economy, crazy instability,
institutionally low trust allthe things that we've been
talking about.
Now the actual market isdemanding proof of work meaning
they're going to do businesswith people who can actually

(54:06):
deliver results, and you need tohave a product.
You need to solve a problem,otherwise the market's not going
to pay you.

Speaker 2 (54:11):
There are some statistics that were coming out
around the time that the TikTokban was going into effect.
And it was like such and suchamount of people are going to
lose their livelihood or lose 80of their revenue, and you know
we've had friends too or like.
Even instagram has a glitch fora day oh, and they'll be like
you're messing with my businessand you know, kim and I are like
yo what I mean.
I don't want to soundinsensitive, but that's your own
damn fault like if you're gonnalose 80 of your business

(54:33):
because instagram is down for aday or because tiktok got one
platform got banned and you'regoing to lose your business over
that.
Like dude, you're playingRussian roulette with this stuff
, Like that's so crazy to me.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
I don't have the capacity to be that anxious and
that concerned.
I just don't.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
I just that's not who I am, Nor that we're relying on
anything they could literallychange the algorithm and they do
Tomorrow, tomorrow, yep, andyou don't control those terms,
and so I know we sound like youknow radical boomers or
something, but it's like dudeuntil this stuff starts
happening but as a businessowner, you you control so little
.
Yes, why would you leave thatup to chance if you don't have

(55:11):
to?

Speaker 1 (55:12):
let's talk about let's scroll down a little bit,
this goes right into this quoteuh, what we're talking about the
temporary disappearance oftiktok in january 2025.
Sir, does a major wake-up callfor a lot of creators no joke
are you kidding me, like guys?
Why are we so late to this,don't you want?

Speaker 2 (55:29):
don't build on borrowed land.
You own your.
Did we not just say I didn'tread this?
I promise you guys, I didn'tread this beforehand creative
creator economy expert.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
I don't know who leah is, but Leah you are our friend
.
We need to be friends.
Leah, you're amazing.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
So ultimately, Building a business or even
entire career on a single socialplatform is risky.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
Don't build on borrowed land.
Own your platform.
Guys, this is where you got tobe smart and savvy about how you
position yourself.
And people come at me when Isay this, especially on like
Instagram.
People get so mad.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
So mad, so salty, scroll up real quick, so salty.
Guys, we're not yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
But here's the reality there was a 40% year
over year decrease in creators'willingness to compromise their
values for high paying branddeals.
That is super important andties into what we said before
about trust and transparency.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
It's true.

Speaker 1 (56:21):
The market has no capacity for superficial BS.
They will call it out and theywill sniff it from afar.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
I know the brand deal stuff sounds really attractive.
That like did you know that KimKardashian gets paid?

Speaker 1 (56:32):
$20 million for posting one time.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
I'm gonna tell you right now, kim Kardashian can
control the terms because she'sgot 150 gajillion followers.
Right, you, with your 20 000followers, they will control the
terms 100 and you willliterally and they will change
the terms.
And I've we've read, guys, weget brand deal requests.
I'm not joking.
We get brand new requests atleast three to five times a week
sometimes a day.
A day, no, seriously like I wastrying to be fair, but that

(56:57):
probably you're probably rightLike our inbox is flooded with
brand deal requests and, look, Ican tell you, I've read the
contracts, I've read their terms, I've read what they're asking
for, I've read what they demand.
I've read their ability to getout and still hold you
accountable to producing thecontent you're going to produce.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
Guys, it's insane, like I sent it to a to an
executive coach of mine.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
He's like why I sent it to an executive coach of mine
?
He's like why the heck wouldanybody do this?
I'm like exactly.
He's like trust your gut onthat one.
I was like, yeah, I'm not doingit.
So it's crazy.
It's not what you think it is.
In some cases, maybe you find agood one that isn't.
We have partners that we workwith.
I'm not dismissing any of them.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
We do brand deals, we do brand deals for a brand deal
.

Speaker 2 (57:35):
But here's the problem though we can have
leverage, because we don't needit.
Yes, we don't need it, we don'tneed it and when we slow walk
them, when they reach out to usand we're like, yeah, we'll
think about it, let's talk on aZoom call, cool, okay, yeah,
we'll talk about it.
Like then all of a sudden bitmore friendly to you, so when

(57:58):
you can own the terms.
Another example I had onecompetitor reach out to me for a
brand deal.
I said I'm not doing thisunless you're going to at least
cover the cost of me to createit.
In addition to x, y and z.
They wanted to just do a giveme, send me a product.
They were getting ready to puta label on and send it before
I'd even agree to anything.
No contract, anything.
They're gonna send it to me.
I said no, no, no, no, no, no.
You need to at least cover.
I said I want two thousanddollars minimum just to cover my

(58:19):
costs and just be cover my time.
In addition to affiliate links.
Lifetime, not for a limitedspan of time, not for 12 months.
So what they want you to dosometimes is do 12 months of
content for them, like onYouTube, let's say but at the
end of the 12 months, guess what?
The affiliate commission linkgoes, expires.
So your video lives forever andit does.
It does banger work for themforever, but they don't have to

(58:42):
keep paying you commissions forit.
So they want to give me a freeproduct and an expiring
affiliate.
Like I said, go kick rocks.
So I reached out to the othercompany their competitor their
competitor and they gave me thesweetest deal ever Sent me the
product overnight, we're willingto pay for it, et cetera, et
cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
Right, but Can I just say you're a badass negotiator.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
Like you're such a badass negotiator.
I mean it's just unbelievablethis stuff.
Finish your story.
But I just want to pause toacknowledge.
Thank you your incrediblesavviness If I wasn't I.
You get people to agree to theterms that they agree to.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
You learn the hard way of getting your butt kicked
in negotiations.
If I wasn't red already fromthe glade exposure, I would have
turned red from the compliments, thank, you.
But the kicker, though, is thisand I learned this about
negotiations guys, it's allabout being in a position of
leverage, and when you have noleverage because you live and
die on one platform and you liveand die off somebody else's
money paying you to create somecontent, because that's the aim,

(59:38):
that's what you're trying toaccomplish you're gonna feel
like you'll take whateverthey'll give you and you'll do
whatever they say, because youare not in a position of
leverage, you do not have thehigh ground yeah, and that's
exactly what it's.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
Just, I don't know.
You're transitioning perfectly,because this is exactly what
the next section is talkingabout.
Creators are taking control oftheir channels.
Entrepreneurship is becomingless and less of a choice and
more of a necessity for creators.
In the last year, creators haveseen a 33 percent decrease in
platform payout, 36 percentdecrease in affiliate marketing

(01:00:08):
and 52 percent decrease in branddeals that's crazy why these
are all revenue streams.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
They should not be your main source of business,
it's ancillary, it's a cherry ontop, it's a bonus.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
We do all these things.
We get platform payouts, we getaffiliate commissions and we do
brand deals.
None of them are even close tothe majority of our revenue,
because we don't want to dependon anybody.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
But most of the brand deals that we take, guys, just
from a strategy.
So you realize, like, okay, butif you're so down on this, why
would you take a brand deal?
We usually will find we'll finddeals, exactly.
We'll find deals where wecollaborate with tools that our
people are already using, andthen we'll.
We'll, like I said, I don'twant the affiliate expiry
deadline here because we'll usean existing audience that we own
.
We'll get people using a toolthat they're already using, but
using our, our affiliate link,and then guess what?
You get commissions, affiliatewise forever and it's a positive

(01:01:02):
relationship.

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
So we never do a deal ever with a tool or a company
that we don't have alignment inour actual business.
So it has to be perfectlyaligned, it has to be perfectly
vetted by our clients andcustomers, otherwise it doesn't
make sense for us.
And so think about this when wecreate content like this for us
, we think of it as a mediacompany.

(01:01:24):
We have ad spots in theseepisodes, or we just mention our
products, and that's how wemarket our business.
So for us, this is primocontent.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
Join the business lounge.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
Exactly.
We don't want to give otherpeople premium ad spots in our
content unless we're going toget paid for it, because that
means that's revenue that'sbeing lost from our business,
and so we never want to do that.
We're going to think about itlike and I think that's why,
chris, I'm so, I'm so gratefulthat and this is going to sound
like a humble brag, but it's noty'all we learned this with the

(01:01:58):
school of hard knocks and ourfirst business that was not
online, that it was not aYouTube channel.
So when we're talking to you,we're not talking to you as Kim
and Chris, the online coaches.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
No, I got raked over the coals, it's like no.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
We have real experience running real
companies in the real world,completely outside of the online
space.
And that gives you perspective.

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
that's important yeah , I would.
I would have a sixty thousanddollar installation contract
where I lost 28 grand.
How does that happen?
Exactly you know, but I didn't.
I was young, didn't know what Iwas doing and I hadn't.
I put myself in a position ofno leverage.
Yeah, and therefore I had noability to go back and submit
work orders because a lot of thesignatures already been
gathered and I had no leverageand we had no idea how to
negotiate, we didn't come from aposition of strength and that

(01:02:40):
we needed the contract.
So we learned all these thingsby making mistakes and being or
I signed the original contract,which gave me no position of
power at all in the event thatthings happened right.
And so, yeah, it's a mess.

Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
So we learn and we grow.
And this was like 14 years ago.
But what?

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
13, 13 years ago, 13 years ago, yeah, so learn the
easy way, not the hard way learnfrom learn from me.
Learning the hard way and wewere kids.

Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
We had no idea we're still kids, but we were kids
back then, even younger I'm atoys rs kid let's talk about
what is working, though, becauseI love to see like we talked
about all the bad stuff, butlet's talk about the good stuff,
and so if this is working forcreators, like, how do we
interpret this for onlinebusiness?
This is really interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
Chris podcast revenue but 47, but derived from what
though?

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
ad spots uh ad spots so a lot of what we see, and
I've been y'all please I did anepisode probably add sense to if
it's a video show, sure I did,if it's a video podcast yeah,
video yeah so I don't know.
They didn't specify, so I'massuming it's from from send it,
send a video show on YouTube.
I did.
If it's a video, podcast, yeah,video.
So I don't know, they didn'tspecify, so I'm assuming it's
from from send a.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
send a thank you letter to Joe Rogan for that one
Seriously.

Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
I was going to say we've been putting out some
episodes on this guys.
So, like last, I think lastseason we talked about why you
have to his whole entirecampaign and how smart it was
that they leveraged podcasts,whereas the Harris campaign
really focused on influencerendorsements.

Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
Bad idea, that was a terrible move.

Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
That was a dagger.
Regardless of our politicalviews, we like objectively
looking at okay, what did thesecampaigns do well and what
didn't do well?
Podcasts are exploding rightnow, so, as an online business,
you need to look at thisinformation.
So I like to validate frommultiple sources.
One I want to look at politicalcampaigns and I'm not saying

(01:04:29):
you do that every year,obviously like the only happen
every four years.

Speaker 2 (01:04:32):
You can, you can, but let's not do that.
But the Leslie Knope campaign.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
I want to see the ones that have billions of
dollars backing them.
That's what I want to see,Because that's like there's
proof in the pudding.
Yeah, yeah yeah, and so for melooking at like, hey, let's look
at creators, what's happeningin the creator land.
Let's look at influencerswhat's happening there.
Let's look at the financialsector, let's look at also

(01:05:03):
what's happening big, hugecorporate campaigns, podcasts
are exploding.
Why?
because consumption, people wantto consume content from
independent creators, and so Ithink that that's a really
important lesson for us to learn.
This is why we're launching thepodcast on youtube it's part of
it practicing what we preach.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
Guys, follow the numbers, follow the numbers,
follow the numbers.

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
Digital download sales 20 up in digital download
sales.
So this is so interesting to meyeah I think we're seeing like
the bottom and the top justwe've talked about this.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
Are they buying these with fart coin?

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
I'm saying low ticket stuff is selling really well
because, the economy is crop,yeah, or high ticket stuff,
because players with money wantto invest yeah.
So I love this.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
Digital downloads if you don't have a shop already,
you should have a shop yeah, inyour in your online business
educational content, even ifyou're just putting resources
that you use inside of like yourcoaching program you could sell
like your your mechanism, thatyou put into a pdf resource or
something like that people, yeah, and that's.
That's pretty much ai proofabsolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
Now I am having a hard time with the educational
content and the membership groupyeah, how that's different no,
not how's different, but more sothat I don't think that's like.
I think the creators are reallylate to this game.

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
Yes, oh my gosh.
They're almost like too late tothis game Too late, yeah.
And so courses are dying andmemberships are dying in their
current state, so when they sayeducational content, they're
basically saying courses,courses, or lumping it in there.

Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
And I'm not saying that courses can't be profitable
at all.
We still make money from ourcourses.
Yeah, but you have to infuse anelement, I think, now of
hybridizing, where you'reactually showing up live
answering questions, doing somehand-holding, some
implementation.
I think the value prop of justmore information isn't the thing
right now.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
So I think creators are going to find that out
because they're a little behind.

Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
A little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:06:37):
But for online businesses.
This is how we would translateit.
I think you've got to have acool element to that I would
have loved to see.

Speaker 2 (01:06:43):
Well, obviously this doesn't apply, but I would love
to see a number of coaching 100%, Because coaching increase
would be true.

Speaker 1 (01:06:50):
But I don't think creators are at the place where
they feel like they'reestablished as a business enough
to actually offer coaching.

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
Very few of them do.

Speaker 1 (01:06:59):
But I think that would be a really good.
You're right.

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
Building revenue streams independent of social
platforms gives you peace ofmind when it comes to cash flow.
Did these people just borrowquotes from us from the last
five to six years?
Yeah, predictability whenforecasting out the anxiety of
wondering if you're gonna lockin a brand deal or not.
All social media followers arejust borrowed audiences.
You don't have control overyour accounts.
Like can be gone tomorrow socheck it, check out.
I wish I could get a timemachine, I would go back and say

(01:07:22):
it even harder I would too.

Speaker 1 (01:07:24):
I would too, even though people got mad, it
doesn't matter, yeah whateverown your business, your paycheck
and your wellness.
So this is a really interestingum twist.
I think owning your revenuechannels and your audience pays
off.
Entrepreneurial creators make25% more.
Surprise, surprise, surprisesurprise you make more money.
And also what is interesting tome is the emotional.

(01:07:44):
If you go down, the wealthierand emotionally healthier Wow.
Yes, why?
Because this is I don't thinkthe creator.
Space was ever intended to be afull-time gig in the way it's
established.

Speaker 2 (01:07:58):
Because it's so stressful 26 struggle with
paycheck to paycheck.

Speaker 1 (01:08:03):
Stress yes that's crazy wow like your life is.
I remember watching, listen, Ilove.
I consume a lot of creatorcontent.
I love watching creators dotheir thing because it's it's an
art yeah, it is um, but one ofthe, the girls that I followed.
She had this feeling thatthings like I think she had
intuition that things were notgonna go very well um

(01:08:24):
financially for them.
I think it was right after thepandemic okay so her husband
lost her job, and she hadpreemptively sold all of her
high-end purses like she hadlike some chanel purses and uh,
I don't know.
You know I don't know much aboutpurse brands because I that's
not my thing yeah, but anyway,she had really expensive purses,

(01:08:45):
like five to ten thousanddollars she sold them so that
they would have enough cash flowto cover her husband getting
laid off, but then also herbusiness like the brand deals,
kind of stopped yeah and I waslike they have kids that's crazy
, that is so stressful.
I'm not saying that can'thappen in your business, because
there's epsom flows too rightfor sure but my goodness, like

(01:09:07):
it seems to be out of nowhereall the time.

Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
That's why.
That's why I love havingsomething like brand deals,
sponsorships, affiliate links,stuff like that.
It's just a nice like it's thewhipped cream and the cherry on
top.
You know what?
what I mean Like it adds to ifyou're a business extra revenue
streams, because then if you dohave a downfall in your business
you know a drawback, whateverthen you still have that right
that you can say like okay, cool, we're going to subsidize some
of these losses.

(01:09:30):
You know 15%.
You know Delta, this year overlast year, you know we took on a
brand deal and so that coversit 100.

Speaker 1 (01:09:37):
You know what I mean.
But it's also hard as a creator, like if you're pivoting you've
accustomed your audience to.
Basically you work for them forfree, like you just put out.
I know creators that apologizeto their audience when they
can't get a video out.
You know, in time and it's likewait.
Are these?

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
people.
Sorry guys.

Speaker 1 (01:09:53):
Yeah, it's true, I've seen that right it's like sorry
guys, I'm in the hospital withpneumonia uh-huh and people are
like well, like should have hadthe episode ready before I was
my whole day around this likeexcuse literally I've seen it
seriously.
I'm not exaggerating that isnot a positive relationship,
that's pretty toxic relationshipwith an audience demanding and

(01:10:13):
so now, how do you positionyourself as someone who has
something to sell?
That's hard really bad.

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
So I'm a big dallas maps fan I was I was rip dallas
mass fandom but uh, because wetraded luca and I can't get over
it, but anyways, so I feltreally bad, though for the, the
most for the guys that created apodcast, um, that cover the
maps and they're independentguys and their numbers just
dwindled because, the fan basewas really, really divided over

(01:10:40):
it yeah and a lot of people juststopped tuning in, myself
included, and it's like, oh mygosh, I felt so bad for them
because they go every day.
There's something mavs locked onmavs every single day, your
team every day, and man, I justit's got to be tough to be in a
situation not only are you, isyour whole business on somebody
else's platform, but it'scovering someone else's business
.
So it's like two layers ofbeing not in control of what you

(01:11:03):
do.
It's got to be tough.

Speaker 1 (01:11:04):
Yeah, it is, it absolutely is.
Yeah, my heart goes out to themand it's so much work, chris,
oh coaching consulting.

Speaker 2 (01:11:10):
It's here.

Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
I don't know why that wasn't listed before.
They actually have it biggerthan memberships that are on
merchandise.
So this is why I think so manyonline business owners are
confused about their identity,in a way, like they're modeling
a lot of the content creatorsbecause we have so much overlap.

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
Right, there's so much overlap, but we're slightly
different and I think I'm goingto predict in the next five
years, most creators are goingto be online business owners and
some of you, like kim said,even if you're already doing
some of these and you're likeyes, nailed it, yes, exactly.
Like if you have a membership,let's say but you're seeing it
kind of like Slow down, likeyeah, it's not as many people,
you got a 20%, you know dip.
Okay, well, launch a coachinglevel A hundred percent.

(01:11:53):
Launch a coaching tier P that Idon't want to give away the
deets.

Speaker 1 (01:11:55):
Don't give away the deets.

Speaker 2 (01:11:56):
But, like we're launching some merchandise
that's beneficial to the peoplein our membership and our
coaching.
You know, launch some digitaldownloads, right.
We launch a store page that hasthings you can buy that we use
in our own business.
So you can start being morerobust.
If you see one of these, youknow, start to dwindle a little
bit, or the appetite for it isnot what it once was.

Speaker 1 (01:12:13):
Exactly, and then, as we continue scrolling down,
you'll see a little bit further.
You know, audience ownership,guys, community Both of those
are super important.
If you go to the next one, thisone is just all about hey, 55%
of creators are saying thataudience ownership is the most
important factor for success.
Thank you, thank you, we'vebeen validated.
Community the perfect place tostart and grow your business.

(01:12:36):
So I love that.
Like starting a community whereyou can add value to people.
Answer people's questions, youknow, create special episodes.

Speaker 2 (01:12:43):
I think that's a perfect bridge, even if it's
just on like Mighty 100% CircleMighty Networks Kajabi Kajabi.
Exactly, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:12:51):
Well, since, we are on Kajabi.
That's why they're saying it.

Speaker 2 (01:12:53):
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
Nishes niche is niche it down.
Scroll down a little bit, weget there you go specialize to
monetize.

Speaker 2 (01:13:02):
I actually love that specialize to monetize, um it's
true, though, and people wantthat, so I talked about.
I talked about tribalism in anegative sense before.
Let's talk about in a positivesense right um.
So when there's chaos anduncertainty in the world, people
like to feel like they belongto something and they're
understood and they share valuesand all the things we said,
like the reason that people werealigning so much with us is
because, in a sea of all thisuncertainty and all this chaos

(01:13:24):
and all these people fighting,they feel like there was one
place where they belonged andthey felt accepted and
understood.
Yeah, and so now bringing thisinto what we're talking about
here, if you niche down intosomething, one people feel, the
tribalism works in your benefit.
Two, two and this is a reallyimportant second factor where
this is going to be a doublewhammy for you People want what
they want and they want it now,and that is going to continue to

(01:13:46):
be the case with AI.
And so if your niche, if you'retoo broad, people are not going
to take the time to exhaustcalories to figure out that it
actually is for them, or they'regoing to come into your
community or in your coachingand be like, oh, this isn't for
me, they're talking aboutcoaching and I sell physical
products, right?
So that is going to reallyserve you well, both in making
sales, but also retaining peopleand building tribe, which
people are longing for becausethey do feel like they belong

(01:14:09):
there, but also they knowimmediately it's for them and
it's selling something that theywant.
That's really important, so I'mglad they recommend this.

Speaker 1 (01:14:16):
A hundred percent.
What I really like about thiswhole idea is that it just
builds on basic businessprinciples y'all.
It's just basic businessprinciples, really.
Price is right.
Smart pricing can fuel growth.
Yeah, it can.
We did a whole episode onpricing A previous episode.
We'll link it here for you guys.
But how do you actuallyposition your pricing in a way

(01:14:41):
that gets people excited to buyfrom you?
That's important.
And then I think from here it'sjust basically like the price
ranges, for one time, you know,for creators.
And notice y'all how much lowertheir pricing is when you have
when a creator is charging forsomething, rather than a expert
who is an online business owner,because there's no way I would
spend, I would charge.
Well, this is a range, right?
It's like $100 to $550 expertwho was an online business owner

(01:15:03):
.
Because there's no way I wouldspend, I would charge.
Well, this is a range, right,it's like a hundred to $550, but
like we charge 20 times this,at least yeah.
Community Same thing.
I like the fact that thecommunity range goes all the way
up to 400, though that's.
That's pretty legit.
Um and so courses up to two 50,see how the MagDaddy courses
are dying.
Guys, please don't build a$1,000, $2,000 course, $2,000,

(01:15:23):
$3,000 course.

Speaker 2 (01:15:24):
That's not working anymore.
No, it's not Even the leaders,it's not just us saying that the
leaders in that space fordecades.
They're having trouble withthose.

Speaker 1 (01:15:32):
Yeah, and so the next one is just basically about
bundling, and that's basicallythe report.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
But these are really good validation points.
We'll drop the link in the.

Speaker 1 (01:15:41):
We'll drop the link in the description, if you want
to read it yourself at your ownpace but man, I think we talked
about a lot of things the moralof the story here, as we land
the plane like chris talks aboutI love when she says land the
plane.
It's my favorite chris could behere for five hours um when she
says land the plane, you knowwhat that is?

Speaker 2 (01:15:57):
for me it's the, the adult equivalence of being like
it's bedtime for a kid.
That's what it is.

Speaker 1 (01:16:03):
I'm like, no, we need to get you like on your own
show, for like longer, becauseyou could be here for four hours
and I'm here for it, but Istarted.

Speaker 2 (01:16:13):
Kim just told me my introverted self it's bedtime my
introverted self was like I'mdead dude yeah, I can't do it
anymore, passing out, she's likeplaying, please land.

Speaker 1 (01:16:22):
No.
But really the biggest takeawayis, guys, it's just this is
validation for direction in theonline space.
We use this as essentially somebenchmarks of what's working,
what's not working, how you needto pivot and adapt because,
listen, what you don't want tohappen is the course creators I,
I mean the course creators, thecontent creators are positioned
to have an audience.

(01:16:42):
They already have contentsystems, they're already
consistently creating contentthey get it, I think content
creators are gonna take over theonline business space, if we
don't get smart and savvy abouthow we market our businesses
online.

Speaker 2 (01:16:56):
I was just about when they're getting smart, when
they learn that game.
I'm telling you they're comingfor that cookie, they're coming
for that cookie.

Speaker 1 (01:17:02):
We're ahead and they get it, but they're going to
close the gap.

Speaker 2 (01:17:05):
One of our clients.
I was just looking and I sawsome younger people entering the
space and they are doingmarketing, very, very, very like
they're doing all the thingsthat.
I've and I'm like that's goingto be a problem, so it's going
to get more crowded, so youreally really, really need to
take that seriously.
I don't want to end on anegative, though.

Speaker 1 (01:17:23):
No, it's a positive.
I think that it's exciting thatwe're ahead of the trends.

Speaker 2 (01:17:26):
You're ahead.

Speaker 1 (01:17:27):
If you run fast you're going to crush.

Speaker 2 (01:17:30):
You borrow their playbook, but adapt it for
business, and I think you'regoing to go far, 100%.

Speaker 1 (01:17:34):
Yeah, it's like we're trading.
Like the creators are becomingbusiness owners and business
owners are like we gotta createcontent.

Speaker 2 (01:17:39):
Okay, here you go Idea positive I teach creators.

Speaker 1 (01:17:43):
You said that like we weren't being positive.

Speaker 2 (01:17:46):
I teach creators how to build an actual online
business, because all thesepeople migrating over?

Speaker 1 (01:17:52):
Why are you giving them away our secrets?
Oh yeah, sorry, that's whatwe're gonna do.

Speaker 2 (01:17:56):
Don't do that one, do a different one.
No, but seriously, there'salways new opportunities.
So anytime there's an inherent,implied negative, just be like.
Well, okay, great, that's morepeople then in the space that I
can sell to, because now they'renot playing on the internet,
they're actually looking to dosomething real and I do
something real.

Speaker 1 (01:18:10):
Totally.

Speaker 2 (01:18:10):
So more addressable market for you and probably a
whole generation of people inthe younger crowd.
My guess would be that arecoming into the realness of the
world and they're like okay, momand dad, I expired from their
health insurance.
I'm not paying rent.
Still.
I'm 28 years old.
I kind of need to stop playingon the internet and actually
focus on making money.
I'm unemployable.

(01:18:30):
What do I do?
Perfect, here you are with youramazing offer and all your
infinite wisdom, having donethis forever.

Speaker 1 (01:18:40):
Boom and all your infinite wisdom, having done
this forever boom, there you go.

Speaker 2 (01:18:41):
So opportunity, I love it.
You want to close this out,yeah, guys.
So thank you for watching thefull hour and a half of this.
Hope you guys enjoyed it makesure you do subscribe for future
episodes.
Hit the bell for notifications.
You will get lost in a sea ofyoutube.
You know that.
So if you enjoyed the show,make sure you comment below if
there's anything in particularthat you want to hear us talk
about going forward or you havequestions or you have questions
or you have comments, unlessyou're Phil.
We already heard enough from you.
Phil, go away.
So, philip, philip, anybodythat names themselves, they're

(01:19:05):
full.

Speaker 1 (01:19:05):
Chris Philip, let's close the episode.
Oh man.

Speaker 2 (01:19:08):
Anyways that, and then also there's links and
resources below, if you're readyto take your efforts to the
next level, to some of ourprograms.
We have the self-study with TBLAcademy.
We have group coaching, whichhas been phenomenal.
People are loving it.
And also we have one-on-one ifyou want to go real fast.
Those are the people that arelike I'm here for it, let's go,
let's run the sprint.
That's what I'm all about.
I'm a go fast guy.
As you can tell, I talk fast,go.

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