Why Your $19 Hack Won’t Buy A $72K Client & What WILL (Answering Your Questions!)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
When you're starting out, be really careful about

(00:02):
going too fast high ticketbecause you need to work the
skill set to be able to deliveron the back end.

SPEAKER_00 (00:08):
You've got like the Russell Brunson level brand
recognition clout, Gary Vee,Alex Hormosy, Tony Robbins.
There's an expectation becauseof the brand clout.

SPEAKER_02 (00:15):
They are interviewing Grant Cardone, Alex
Homozy about 45 minutes of histime, and he was talking about
how his 45-minute rate, it was$148,000 or something crazy.
The benchmark is for every$500that your offer costs, you
usually need 30 minutes of timespent.
Now that's not always the case,but it's a very good rule of
thumb.

SPEAKER_00 (00:36):
So now you're saying, well, I'm actually
giving you a cost savingsbenefit because you're only
paying me$70,000.
So see how that position isgonna anchor you at a point
where you could charge thatbecause it's an implied
expectation.
If you're coming in as a coachfor small business owners and
you're posting on Instagram,again, you're gonna have to be
the top, the cream of the cropto be able to say that my price
tag is$72,000.

SPEAKER_02 (00:55):
You can be a very lazy marketer and try to compete
on price, but what's gonnahappen is eventually you're
going to absolutely be a race tothe bottom.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02):
Nonsense.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03):
It's all status, right?
It's what it says about you.
It's about the experience ofgoing and buying something
luxury.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09):
That's why we say profitability over popularity,
our content to customers'mechanism, because we know that
people are gonna interface withus when they're tired of doing
the things that aren't makingthem the money that they want to
make.

SPEAKER_02 (01:18):
What's up, the media?
It's Pim and Chris.
And you're listening to theBusiness Cloud Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 (01:23):
In each episode, we'll break down all the latest
in online marketing, give youall the details on what's
working now to turn your contentinto customers, boost your leads
in sales, and scale yourbusiness fast.

SPEAKER_02 (01:34):
All without compromising on what you care
about.
Faith, family, and freakup.
And listen, it's all real, raw,and unfiltered.
So let's start the show.
Welcome back to the BusinessNotch Podcast.
I'm your co-host, Kim Jimenez,and of course, we got Chris in
the house.
And today we're going to beanswering two of the best

(01:54):
questions that we have gotten sofar since we launched the video
podcast, which is superexciting.
We're also celebrating athousand subscribers on the
channel, the new channel.
So I'm pumped.
Uh, it's good times around here,and we're gonna have a blast.

SPEAKER_00 (02:09):
Even having done YouTube before to the degree
that you've done itsuccessfully.

SPEAKER_02 (02:14):
Don't talk to me.

SPEAKER_00 (02:15):
Starting a new channel, yeah, it's the worst.
So if you guys are starting tonow, I will say this though.
I don't want to discourage youfrom doing it because what I
will say is that when yourmessaging is really dialed in,
you you can't get discouraged bythe numbers because what we
found was that even with like100 subscribers, we were getting
applications and we were gettingcoaching clients, which is kind
of bizarre.

SPEAKER_02 (02:33):
Yeah.
So like I've been on YouTube for12 plus years now, I think.
OG.
Um, and OG to the game.
My main channel has like what86,000 subscribers.
We're on the path to 100,000.
Uh, YouTube's not my main thing,it never has been.
It's like a a side marketingchannel.
Um, and we do so much outside ofYouTube that it's never been my
main focus.
But I will tell you this once wegrow a channel to almost a

(02:57):
hundred thousand subscribers, itis painful to start over.
And you've had your channel toofor a couple of years, much less
than me.
Intermittently, yeah.
Intermittently.

SPEAKER_00 (03:06):
There's a lot of playful time for sure.

SPEAKER_02 (03:08):
So it's kind of been our side thing, not our main
thing.
Um, and starting from zero hasbeen painful, but I will say
started from the bottom nowwe're now we're at a hundred,
what, eleven?

SPEAKER_00 (03:18):
1200 now?

SPEAKER_02 (03:18):
It's already.
I love it.
Okay.
So what I do love about YouTubeis this it doesn't matter how
many subscribers you have, youwill absolutely get clients,
even if you have like a hundredsubscribers, which is awesome.
It's been highly profitable.
And why I am totally willing tostart over with a new channel.
Not that we're leaving ourchannels individually behind,
we're actually just startingthis um new kind of experiment

(03:42):
together because that's what ourYouTube coach said to do.
So we're we're following suit.

SPEAKER_00 (03:46):
We're we're coachable.
We are coachable.
Can't be a good coach if you'renot coachable.

SPEAKER_02 (03:50):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 (03:51):
All right, let's get let's get these questions.
I'm curious.
Really good questions.

SPEAKER_02 (03:54):
Um, the first one about uh who's it from?
Shout out and this is this isfrom I don't know, improv 34.
His name is Ben.
Ben, what up, Ben?
So Ben says, What I'd like toknow, in case this is something
worth addressing, is what typeof content should or could you
create for a$19 coaching projectversus an offer that's$72,000?

(04:16):
Uh the big pricing is somethingI just recently heard from
another influencer sellingcourses like that.
And I just wanted to know whattype of content would and could
go for prices like that.
How would you market it?
What it should involve, and whatkind of audiences this would
require.
So I love this question, Ben,because we have a lot of
experience selling verylow-ticket things like$9 offers.
Yeah.
All the way up to$7,200 or$72,000.

(04:38):
$72,000.
Okay.
Yeah.
$72,000.
Yeah.
So uh all the way up to like$50,000 plus dollars.
Um, so we know what sells atevery price bracket because
we've done it.
And so I think that one of thethings that you first have to
think about is who is yourtarget audience?
Like your question, this wasreally, really good.
Um, for someone who is buying anine dollar product, um, is that

(05:01):
the end of the line?
I think when when you're incoaching and when you're doing
services, Chris, you usuallyhave a low-ticket offer as a way
of ascending people.
Not that you're gonna make moneyfrom your low-ticket offer.

SPEAKER_00 (05:11):
No, you're buying customers at that point.
Well, if you run ads to it,you're buying customers.
But yeah, it's it's like it's uhit's the sampler at the food
court, right?
It's like exactly.
You know, technically, right?
It's like you get them in thedoor.

SPEAKER_02 (05:21):
Yeah.
And I think sometimes peopledon't understand that when
they're in the online space andthey're like replicating what
other people are doing and theythink, oh, you know, it's gonna
be inexpensive.
It's gonna be easy for me tocompete in the market because
that's the easiest way tocompete is through price.
It just is.
Um, you can be a very lazymarketer and then try to compete
on price.
But what's gonna happen iseventually you're going to

(05:42):
absolutely be to the like a raceto the bottom.
Like your competitor is gonnaundercut you and then you're
gonna try to undercut them untilyou have no margins at all.

SPEAKER_00 (05:49):
Yeah, your positioning also really matters
a lot too.
So we can talk about contentformatting because that would I
think that was an nature of yourquestion overall.
Um, I would definitely beinclined to go more long form
content.
I think one really hyper-engagedlistener of your podcast, for
example.

SPEAKER_02 (06:00):
But for which price bracket?

SPEAKER_00 (06:02):
Uh this for the higher price tag, the highest
higher price tag, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (06:05):
So higher price tag.

SPEAKER_00 (06:06):
Higher price tag, longer form.
Longer form.
Vic, you're gonna have to getpeople to spend what is it,
every 30 minutes that peoplesomebody sends with you, it
increases$500 in their amountthey're willing to spend with
you.

SPEAKER_02 (06:15):
Exactly.
So the benchmark is for every$500 that your offer costs, you
usually need 30 minutes of timespent.
Now that's not always the case,but it's a very good rule of
thumb.
So if we do the math on that,like what is it's quite a lot.
It's quite a lot.
Yeah.
72, let's see, times 72 timestwo, we have is 144.

(06:37):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (06:37):
So that's where having a long form podcast uh
would be really beneficial.
And then let's say, right, let'ssay your target audience.
So you always want to followyour person first, and then you
want to think about theformatting that that person's
gonna enjoy.
Um so we've talked about this.
One of my executive coaches isreally just going nuts on
LinkedIn because that's a B2Boffering, right?
Like that's a high, it's anenterprise solution uh in prop
tech.
And so these are people payingmillions of dollars, right?

(06:59):
So he's interfacing with theright person on the right
platform, and then they'rerepurposing their podcasts with
microclips, but then also thefull episodes there on LinkedIn.
And so that would be somethingthat I would probably consider
if I was gonna do something longterm.
But I do think that that's whereyou want to have your product
suite, right?
So you want to have offers thatI think introduce them to you
unless you're gonna be like afractional.
So if you're gonna be like afractional CFO or a fractional

(07:20):
CTO, whatever, then there's anexpectation, right?
That's where you talk aboutpositioning.
If you're positioning yourselfas a coach, that's kind of
conducive with a certain pricetag that's not$72,000 unless
you're legit like in a leakcategory of coaches.
Yeah.
Right.
You've got like the RussellBrunson level uh brand
recognition and clout, Gary Vee,Alex Hormozy, right?

SPEAKER_02 (07:38):
Tony Robbins.

SPEAKER_00 (07:38):
Tony Robbins.
Like there's an expectationbecause of the brand clout.
But if you're brand new, uh, Iwould say make sure that you're
position you have to fall backon labels a little bit.
So a fractional, there's animplicit uh understanding that
like you're gonna be coming inand helping them fill a massive
gap, which means we don't havethis huge C-suite position that
we need in our company, andyou're gonna be filling that and

(07:58):
helping us build our entire teamout.
Like that now, they're lookingat that as I would pay$120,000
for a salary, let's say.
So now you're saying, well, I'mactually giving you a cost
savings benefit because you'reonly paying me$70,000.
So see how that position isgonna anchor you at a point
where you could charge thatbecause it's an implied
expectation.
If you're coming in as a coachfor small business owners and
you're posting on Instagram,again, you're gonna have to be

(08:19):
the top, the cream of the cropto be able to say that my price
tag is$72,000.
Where like I saw Patrick BedDavid, right?
Everybody was getting on wherehe charges like$48,000 for like
an hour phone call with him.
But it's because he's built thatbrand cloud to the point that he
has that recognition.
And so people will pay thatbecause they've they know who he
is and he has that established,you know, celebrity status, as
it were.

SPEAKER_02 (08:37):
Yeah, I think I just saw in like the Stefan Graham
podcast that he's doing, Iforget something called.
Coffee break or something likethat.
Yeah.
Um, and they were interviewingGrant Cardone and he was talking
about how his 45-minute rate forAlex Harmosy bought 45 minutes
of his time and flex on eachother.
I'm like, this is terrible.
It's the alpha flex.
I know.
But he was just talking abouthow, you know, it was$148,000 or

(09:00):
something crazy.
And then he was like, you know,we donated to the foundation.
So that's not his actual, youknow, personal take home.
But I'm like, okay, okay,whatever.
Yeah.
The point is that we really needto think about the person first.
And I think what you made as apoint is so important.
When you're starting out, bereally careful about going too
fast high ticket because youneed to work this skill set to

(09:22):
be able to deliver on the backend.
I have no problem selling highticket.
We've sold high ticket the lastcouple of years.
It's been a really coolexperience, but you need to be
able to deliver on the back end,and that's something that you
work towards.
Like, we didn't start sellinghigh ticket until we had like 10
years of experience under ourbelt and people were asking us
for it.
So I'm not saying that you haveto wait 10 years, but you got to
put in your 10,000 hours.

SPEAKER_00 (09:42):
Yeah, or you've already paid your dues
elsewhere.
Exactly.
So, like I have some friendsthat were, you know, big time
financial, you know, whatever atGoogle and they came out and
like people sought out, soughtthem out because they had
already established that brandpositioning with their the
employer, right?
And so if you're walking out inthat capacity and you've got
that as a background, now don'tassume you're just gonna be
like, hey, I'm so-and-so and Iworked at Google and people are
gonna pay you.
That's not gonna happen.

(10:03):
But you you again, I would takethat as a consideration to kind
of build that portfolio of theseare the things that I've done
and these are the places I'vebeen, and it will open doors
where people are gonna assume ahigher price tag for sure, just
because of that proximity tothat brand.

SPEAKER_02 (10:13):
100%.
So let's talk about ascensionstrategies, right?
For a$19 offer, maybe you haveuh it's an intro to your
signature product, which maybeis like three to five hundred
dollars if you're in services orcourse creation or anything like
that.
Yeah.
And then maybe let's say thatlike at the very top is a
thousand dollars.
That's usually a good ascensionin terms of 19 to maybe like a
hundred to five hundred.

(10:34):
I know I said three hundredearlier, but it just depends.

SPEAKER_04 (10:36):
Ish, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (10:36):
Right?
Ish.
Uh, and then maybe a thousanddollars on the back end.
So it could be a nineteen dollarrapport or a nineteen dollar uh,
I don't know, some kind of lowticket course or some kind of
template spreadsheet.
Yeah, something like that.

SPEAKER_00 (10:49):
Something recurring if you've been on the back end,
yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (10:51):
Uh a$19 intro.

SPEAKER_00 (10:53):
No, like if somebody took a$19 intro and then there's
some back end right there.
That is recurring.
That is recurring.

SPEAKER_02 (10:57):
So maybe it's like $100 a month afterwards uh to
the next thing.
And then the next jump is maybea thousand dollar uh coaching
program or it's a thousanddollar uh elite hybrid course,
something like that or service.
Exactly.
So when you're talking aboutthat price tag and you know your
person, you have to know thatthat is consumer pricing, right?
You're going to attract aconsumer that is very different

(11:20):
than someone who's more on theB2B side.
So be really careful.
If you are going to sellhigh-ticket products, you want
to make sure that if you have alow entry offer, it's priced
differently.
So at 72,000, your intro isusually going to be 2K, 1K
probably at the lowest, right?
Because you're what you're doingis you're filtering the audience
based on pricing.

(11:41):
Um, I'll give you anotherexample of high ticket.
Uh, one of the folks that we'relooking at to consult with his
low ticket is a$99 challenge,but his offer on the back end is
$10,000.
Now, the reason that he can gofrom$99 to$10,000 is because the
challenge in between makes youspend about five hours with him
in that$99 program.

SPEAKER_03 (12:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (12:03):
Right.
And so he's kind of breaking therules a little bit about every
30 minutes is$500.

SPEAKER_00 (12:08):
Depends on a bit of a marketer you are.
And also the the promise and thetransformation.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 (12:11):
But that doesn't assume that people have already
consumed his YouTube content.
He runs a podcast, it's longform, it's about 90 minute
shows.
And so they're already cominginto the challenge having spent
probably 10 plus hours with him.
Yeah.
And so they're primed.
Now, when we're talking aboutlow ticket, I feel like the
amount of content and the lengthcould be a lot shorter.

(12:32):
So would you say that you couldsell a$19 offer through short
form Instagram content, stories,that kind of thing in terms of
format?

SPEAKER_00 (12:38):
Pure hustle game, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 (12:39):
Yeah.
And then when you're sellingmore high ticket, you're
thinking about, hey, I thinkpodcasts is the minimum.
And then from there, you'rethinking webinars, workshops,
things that are away that are abridge that people can actually
see you become, like not become,but see you as the authority
where you could show them whatis possible.

SPEAKER_00 (12:58):
Yeah.
That so okay, that this isreally brings up a really good
point.
The higher your price tag, thereason we talked about long form
and why that makes most sense isyou're gonna have to uh I say
this with all humility.
Longer form is gonna help youdemonstrate your range and your
dynamics.

SPEAKER_02 (13:13):
Yes, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 (13:14):
Um Kim and I have a really hard time.
We don't sell sexy around here.
We don't.
Meaning, we're not selling youon how to explode your Instagram
following, right?
That's a sexy thing that peoplewill buy will spend a hundred
bucks a month on.
Like when they just meet you.
If you have a big audience andyou sell a ongoing membership on
growing your Instagram followingto 10,000, say less.

(13:34):
People are gonna sign up for it.
Kim and I, we we focus onhelping refine your offers,
refine your positioning, makingsure that you're thinking about
the assets that you need they'regonna sell that, the sales pages
that are gonna convert, right?
Are you problem or solutionaware?
Like there's so many dynamicsbecause we focus on marketing
psychology and marketingprinciples and things.

SPEAKER_02 (13:54):
And we sell, we help you with content.
That's a huge thing that we'redoing.

SPEAKER_00 (13:57):
We help you with content.

SPEAKER_02 (13:58):
We're very much focused on.

SPEAKER_00 (13:59):
People come to us when they're ready to start,
when they've done the stuff,we're like the third thing
they've they come to.
When they're ready to make moneybecause they've been hustling
their buns off and they're notgetting paid what they're worth,
then they come to us.
That's why we say profitabilityover popularity, our content to
customers mechanism, because weknow that people are going to
interface with us when they'retired of doing the things that
aren't making them the moneythat they want to make.

SPEAKER_03 (14:18):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (14:18):
That's when they discover us.
So when we go into these layers,right?
And that's why people I read acomment a minute ago.
She's like, I love that it'slong form.
I love that I get to spend a lotof time with you guys.
Because if we try to truncateall of the things that we talk
about into these little micropieces of content, like if we
just did native Instagramcontent and I try to tell you
about problem and solution awarein a 90-second Instagram clip,
it just I it feels forced.

(14:39):
It feels like I can't reallylike convey my thoughts in a way
that's gonna land and give youany benefit, or you're just
gonna get massively overwhelmed.
When people find us, it'sbecause they're serious now
about making money.
And so they're gonna spend anhour with us in this podcast or
in other other environments likethis.
And then that's when they'regonna find out, like, oh, okay,
I understand the depth of thatbecause what you're teaching is
more dynamic than just, hey,you're gonna do these little

(15:00):
hacks on the internet to growyour following and get your
audience larger.

SPEAKER_02 (15:02):
Yeah.
And I think that also speaks toyour maturity and mastery.
Okay.
Uh, if I hear what you'resaying, when you're an expert, I
try to say with humility.
So no, but this is a teachable.
This is not just about us, it'sabout you guys.
It's true.
It's true.
When you're an expert at whatyou do, it's really challenging
to condense all of yourknow-how, like Chris said in a
90-second clip.
Um, you could do a lot of90-second clips, but it's going
to take you forever to be ableto actually get someone's uh

(15:26):
eyes to perk up and their earsto perk up about transformation.

SPEAKER_03 (15:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (15:30):
And so I think a lot of why you see these large
podcasts exploding is becausethe people who are leading these
podcasts have put in their10,000 hours.
They are experts at what theydo, and you simply cannot grasp
someone's intellect andunderstand what they're
delivering to the marketplace inshort form.

SPEAKER_00 (15:49):
That's why the Rogan podcast works.

SPEAKER_02 (15:50):
That's what I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_00 (15:51):
I was literally gonna say, it's why I worked.

SPEAKER_02 (15:53):
And it's also why people are hungry for longer
form, which is so bizarrebecause at the same time that
there's short form is exploding,people are also wanting to go
less with less people, right?
Less deep deeper.
And we talked about that in theprevious episode.

SPEAKER_01 (16:06):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (16:06):
Um, so for us, if you are going to sell anything
high ticket, it is absolutelynecessary that you have long
form content.
Now, a lot of people will say,well, we will just sell directly
through webinars.
And that is absolutely possible.
You can go if you see ourcontent to customers method,
phase number three is all aboutads, and you can absolutely
crush it with ads.
But again, a webinar is a what?

(16:27):
A long form presentation.
Um, you can convert so muchmore.
And this is the ads gurus willtell you this.
We work with some of the bestpeople um who do advertising in
the world, like reallyworld-class uh ads experts, and
they will tell you you will seeconversion rates explode when
you actually send ads to longform content first.

(16:48):
That's true, and then sellpeople on something like a
webinar because they've alreadyprimed for the sale.
All you're doing is priming themfor the sale.

SPEAKER_03 (16:55):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (16:55):
And so you need less priming when you're doing$19
content.

SPEAKER_03 (16:58):
That's true.

SPEAKER_02 (16:58):
And you could do much shorter, fast, quick,
clippy things.
That's why you see a lot ofbeginners and people who haven't
necessarily mastered theirexpertise yet doing only
Instagram content.
And so then everyone justfollows people who aren't
necessarily experts.
But if you think about ourindustry in the online space, I
can't think of a single personwho has been around who has
grown their business to multipleseven figures, maybe eight

(17:21):
figures, who does primarilyshort form content first.

(19:37):
Not a single one.
I can't think of one.

SPEAKER_00 (19:38):
Unless they're selling for that specific thing.

SPEAKER_02 (19:41):
Unless they're selling how to do that thing on
that platform, meaning they'reselling Instagram content.
Right.
But even then, the people thatyou're thinking about have
podcasts.

SPEAKER_00 (19:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (19:49):
So see what I'm saying?
Yeah.
Like it's it's very rare that'sa good thing.

SPEAKER_00 (19:53):
There's people that there's people that teach you
how to do memberships by sellingyou a course.

SPEAKER_02 (19:57):
Exactly.
So exactly.
That's what you're talkingabout.

SPEAKER_00 (20:01):
Right.
So and there's nothing wrongwith I'm not like throwing shade
or whatever, but like that justspeaks to sometimes you have to
meet the market, what what'sgonna be most effective, right?
Yeah.
So so yeah, but to your point.
I love that.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (20:12):
I think the last thing I would say then, um,
because we've talked a lot aboutformat, we've talked about
pricing and and how to changehow that affects the format.
We've also talked about theaudience.
I think we need to talk aboutmessaging because it's a
different message.

SPEAKER_00 (20:24):
It's a totally different message.

SPEAKER_02 (20:25):
When you are speaking to a client who uh is
willing to spend upwards of ahundred thousand dollars to work
with you, they need to see adepth of understanding and they
also need to see um that you canrelate to their specific
problems in a very differentway.
So when you're talking to a$19client or customer, right?

(20:46):
This is someone who is just aconsumer for the most part.

SPEAKER_03 (20:50):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (20:50):
You're activating in them a desire for your offer
that's very different than a$72,000 product or a$100,000
product, in my opinion.
Um, and I think that thedifferences between these
markets primarily are that the$19 person, if you're in our
industry, they want resultsfast, like tomorrow, right?
They want something that theycan take.

(21:11):
And we talk about this, uh, youknow, we are in the season
people want to do or they wantto take.
They don't want to actually likelearn anything.
They don't want to becomeanything.

SPEAKER_00 (21:21):
Meaning they'll they want to do it with you, or do
they want to take what youcreated and go use it?
Exactly.
That's what they want.

SPEAKER_02 (21:26):
Yeah.
And so I think a lot of what yousee in that consumer market is
they want results right now.
A higher, more higher ticket,more sophisticated buyer
understands that there is ajourney.
And a lot of times, usually somebigger ambitions, too.
Bigger ambitions, bigger goals,right?
The the person in our industry,I'll give you an example for us,
a$19 consumer who wants to blowup their Instagram in three

(21:47):
days.
Um, someone who is going to joinour coaching program and is
going to pay, you know, happily$50,000 to be a part of it.
And that's one-on-one.
We all, we have different.
I say that and people freak out.
They're like, oh my gosh, I cannever work with you.
No, we have different programsat different price points based
on where you're at in yourjourney.
But if you want to work with usone-on-one, that's the entry
level.
And that person, they understandthat there is going to be a

(22:10):
process, right, of becoming.
They're not just there in theexpect results that the first,
you know, 12 days.
Yeah.
Um, but the way that we speak tothem in a different way is we
talk about proof.
We talk about proof a lot, butwe talk about proof from the
standpoint of um sophisticationand not proof from the
standpoint of laziness.
Does that make sense?

(22:30):
So the the$19 consumer wants itdone for them quickly.
They want the hack.
They want the shortcut.
Nothing wrong with that, right?
But the more sophisticatedperson understands that they've
already gone through the theshortcuts, they're already gone
through the hacks and they knowthat there is a short-term
promise.
They're only going to get so farwith the hack.
They're only going to get so farwith the shortcut.
Exactly.
With like the quick strategy,with the buying of followers,
with, you know, the hacky uhstuff that gives you short-term

(22:53):
gain, but not long-term wealth.
And so I think that that's acore difference in terms of
messaging of how do you selltransformation for both people
in a different way?
Yeah.
I hope that helps.
Yeah.
I don't know if that would do itto the round.

SPEAKER_00 (23:06):
No, awesome question, Ben.
That that was really I was superimpressed with that question.
We saw it come through.
We're like, dang, all right.

SPEAKER_02 (23:12):
Really good.
Uh, we should we can do anentire episode just about like
how do you desire stack and howdo you build desire for your
offers at different price pointsbecause I'm fascinated by that.

SPEAKER_00 (23:20):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (23:20):
Okay.
The next question comes from M.
This is also a very profoundquestion.
I'm like, what?
You guys are the best.

SPEAKER_00 (23:25):
I think it was literally what it was M.
This is some some some JamesBond stuff going on here.

SPEAKER_02 (23:29):
It's M.

SPEAKER_00 (23:30):
Q.
M.
Money Penny.
This is Money Penny.

SPEAKER_02 (23:32):
I love it.
Um, okay.
So let me just see if I canshorten this a little bit.
Um, he said, I loved your topicon offers, and it got me
thinking.
Heck, this could be a futuretopic for you and Chris about
red ocean versus blue oceans.
Um, we all learn marketing to goto a blue ocean because there's
less competition.
Yeah.
But the red ocean has all of thetraffic.

(23:53):
Somewhere I've heard that thisneeds to change to red ocean
blue offer.
And this really got me thinkingof ways I can still be in a red
ocean, but create a blue offer.
Yeah.
Now, let's explain the blueocean, red ocean theory first so
that listeners can understandwhat that what that entails.

SPEAKER_00 (24:10):
Yeah.
So red ocean means um it's verycrowded, right?
I think the actual reason why isbecause there's blood there's
blood in the water.

SPEAKER_02 (24:16):
Just blood in the water because there's sharks
everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 (24:17):
There's blood in the water because the sharks
everywhere.
So that's where it comes from.
Yeah.
Uh a little bit of a gruesomedrag.
I know.
It is like business, but it's agreat book.
Cutthroat, yeah.
But anyway, so what they say isyou don't want to be in a red
ocean, you want to go find ablue ocean, right?
Which is like an open space.
And there's not a lot ofcompetition, and there's not
everybody fighting.
I guess that's the why thesharks come into play, because
everybody's fighting for thesame customer, so it gets

(24:38):
bloody, right?

SPEAKER_02 (24:38):
They're fighting for the same fish.

SPEAKER_00 (24:39):
Fighting for the same fish.
Uh, and so a lot of people willsay, well, you just need to go
completely a differentdirection.
In some cases, that's necessarywhen things get really, really
crowded.
But I would tend to agree, andwe talk about this a lot.
So you're gonna be, if youlisten to the show often, you're
gonna be like, oh, here he goesagain.
Uh, but it really comes down toproblem and solution aware.

SPEAKER_03 (24:55):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (24:55):
And so if you're gonna stay in that red ocean
because you know it's a hugemarket, right?
And there's a lot of money to behad.
So if you're gonna go to problemaware, it could be a full-blown
pivot situation.
Like you're gonna have to changeentirely what you do.
Uh if you want to go solutionaware and stay in the red ocean,
it's the new thing inside theindustry that nobody's taking
advantage of.

SPEAKER_03 (25:13):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 (25:14):
Meaning, you're gonna think about okay, if I'm
in this red ocean, how arepeople underserved?
Uh, are the players too big inthe market?
So the little guys being leftout, they can't afford the
accessible, like, I can't affordto pay Tony Robbins and people
like Tony Robbins, so I'm gonnado like group coaching so that
they have access to me, and thenyou would never even have you
would have to pay like hundredsof thousands of dollars to get
one-on-one.
Uh, do you want to create a toolthat now people can use because

(25:35):
the thing that people aretraining you to do is actually
really hard to do, so you'regonna build a little tool that
people can use.

SPEAKER_02 (25:39):
Oh, like we have with Spark.

SPEAKER_00 (25:40):
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (25:40):
Shameless time.

SPEAKER_00 (25:41):
I like what we build, like our own AI tool.
Actually, because we know youguys are consuming all this
marketing information and you'relearning all these sophisticated
marketing principles, but you'realso trying to run a business.

SPEAKER_03 (25:49):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (25:49):
So we just said, well, why don't we just load
marketing principles that weteach and preach and put them
into AI tools for you guys?
And that's what we did.

SPEAKER_02 (25:55):
Oh, and hey, like I think this podcast is gonna come
out the last day that we havebonuses.
So if y'all are totally intogoing through this process and
us working together to actuallyhelp you figure out your blue
ocean offer in a red oceanmarket, we're totally game to do
that.
Um, and we can talk more aboutthat at the end.

SPEAKER_00 (26:14):
But the good thing too is that the GPTs that we've
trained, they're built on a TryConnect Convert and helping you
stand out with differentiation.
Yeah.
Because if you I'm telling you,don't do this, please don't do
this.
I'm not this is not like ashameless plug to take our
specific tool, but for the love,if if you're just putting out
slop content with generic AI,it's gonna all start sounding
the same.

SPEAKER_03 (26:31):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (26:32):
It's you talk about red ocean, this is gonna be the
reddis of red with everybodythat's now the accessibility,
not to mention the jobdisplacement because of AI,
entrepreneurship's gonna getreally crowded.
And that's just me, that's notme trying to scare you.
That's just me being truthfulabout what's gonna happen.
The people that are gonna winare what we're talking about,
where you go deep, but also youhave that differentiated message
because you're layering in howthe market is always
underserved.
I always tell people this.
They think about like, oh, it'sso competitive.

(26:53):
There's so many people.
I'm like, guys, not evenCoca-Cola or Apple computers
could dominate 100% of themarket.
Like Apple, in all of theirrobustness and all of their
capital that they have availableto them, have only captured half
of the smartphone market.

SPEAKER_02 (27:10):
Yeah.
Maybe less.

SPEAKER_00 (27:11):
That's probably like the greatest achievement ever,
right?
Maybe Facebook.
Facebook at one point had halfthe planet had a Facebook
account.
But even they lost grip.
And then because every timesomebody rises to that kind of
prominence, there's alwayspeople that feel underserved.
It's like, okay, Coke.
Well, I want healthy soda.
Look at this.
Uh Poppy and Olipop exploding.

SPEAKER_02 (27:29):
But yeah, and you could you could use the the
logic, but there's already somany sodas.
There's already so many sodas.
Okay, but this is a differentsoda.
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (27:36):
Like we love soda, but I'm not drinking Coke.

SPEAKER_02 (27:38):
Exactly.
Right?

SPEAKER_00 (27:39):
So we drink Olipops probably once a day now.
Like we're probably the and wepay more money for it.
Exactly.
We probably pay four times moreper can than what your
traditional coke would cost.
So when you when you'reanalyzing your market, this is
where it's so important to haveproximity to what you do and
know your people and follow yourpeople and do your insight
surveys or just work in thespace, even if it's on an hourly

(28:00):
basis, just get involved in youryour the ecosystem that you're
trying to operate in.
Because what you're gonna findis they're like, yeah, you know,
I kind of wish that thisexisted, or I kind of wish that
it didn't work this way.
Like when we started the movingcompany, my first our first
business was a moving company.
We my brother and I actuallystarted in college and then grew
to a multimillion dollarcompany.
For those who didn't know thatalready, um we we just went
downtown in little old Athens,Georgia, one of the poorest

(28:20):
counties in the state ofGeorgia, by the way, and we were
starting a business there on theback of the 2008 housing crisis.
What a swell time and a swellplace to start a business.
But we grew it to multi-millionsof dollars, which is crazy.
It makes it makes no logicalsense with no outside funding.
The primary thing that we did,primary thing, they were
national van lines, there wastwo men in a truck.
There was no logical reason whywe we would have played in that

(28:42):
quote red ocean.
But what were people lookingfor?
They wanted a new, more refined,more modern solution to moving.
Specifically, we started withniche.
The college kids, they didn'twant the parents didn't want
these 40-year-old men coming intheir daughter's dorm or
apartment or fraternity house,or sorry house rather, to move
them.
They would prefer classmates andpeople around their age doing it
that were they were supportingtheir way getting through

(29:03):
school.
We also took a more refinedapproach.
We used technology.
Imagine that.
We moved to use technology in amoving business.
Like we just took a differentapproach, but we started with
finding out what did you likeabout your previous moving
experience, what did you notlike?
What would you wish if you couldhave a new service that was
provided?
What would that look like toyou?
And we literally justinterviewed them on a flip
phone, not kidding, on a Friday,like over the weekend, I don't

(29:23):
remember what night it was.
Come in with me.
We literally just interviewedpeople and recorded what they
had to say, just askingquestions about their moving
experience.
We took that, we put it inmarketing, we built our offer
around that, and we grew tomulti-millions of dollars.
So I 1,000% agree because thegood thing about Red Ocean is
there's already what we callriver of opportunity there
because there's already peoplethat are buying the thing.
So it's competition is a goodthing because it means they've
already pre-qualified theindustry for you, that there's

(29:44):
merit there, that people arewilling to pay for something
like that.
So absolutely finding a blueocean within the red absolutely
makes most sense.
But what would you say in termsof like if you wanted to go to a
full, full blue versus bluewithin red, how would you how
what in what predicament orsituation would you say no
full-blown new industry, fullblown new blue ocean
opportunity?

SPEAKER_02 (30:01):
This is a really good question.
I think 10 years ago the themarket was really different than
it is now.
Um, and I think we've seensaturation at such a degree and
in most industries that evenwhen you do create a blue ocean,
true blue, a true blue ocean,uh, it requires a lot of capital
and a lot of RD and a lot of uhpainstaking work to get to that

(30:23):
blue ocean.
Whereas before, you know, youcould argue that the blue ocean
was um just a display experienceor like the fact that be your
unique uh makeup, like your DNA,right?
The the way that you expressyourself, the way it was enough
to differentiate.
Yeah.
I don't see that as much now.
Um I think it would be a veryinteresting thing for us to like

(30:43):
dive in deeper and really likeresearch more.
Uh, what does that look likenow?
Because that book was publishedquite a while ago.

SPEAKER_04 (30:50):
I know.

SPEAKER_02 (30:50):
Um, and I feel like the the changes have been
alarming since then, where it'shard for me to say, yes, it is
like I can't think of a can youthink of an example of a blue
ocean?

SPEAKER_00 (31:00):
That's what I was trying to think.
So I thought um, you know, likeso, for example, I think social
media platforms were a true blueocean, it was a new it was a new
paradigm.

SPEAKER_02 (31:08):
But that's what I'm talking about.
Like we have to create such aninnovative marketplace, right?
That is completely different andNetflix was a blue ocean.
The tech companies are having toiterate so quickly to create
that, you know, like Chat GPT,blue ocean, like completely new
market, right?
Huge shift, yeah, totallydifferent offer, something that

(31:28):
is uh a new paradigm shift.
Bitcoin.
And I feel like we keep right,Bitcoin, we keep upping the ante
where it's hard to think, andI'm not saying it's not
possible, but it's hard to get anew business who's just starting
out, you know, with no capitalto go through that process.
In my opinion, yeah, I neverwant to be fully in a blue ocean

(31:51):
if I'm starting out becausethere's too many variables.
Like I want to go to where I dohave competitors and there is a
clear established market becauseit's gonna be way easier for me
to differentiate and create anirresistible offer, something
different in that existingmarket, um, even if it's highly
competitive, than it is for meto just start from zero.

SPEAKER_00 (32:08):
I think regardless of how you label this.
The essence of it is you'realways going to build it back on
the backs of what people arewhat they want and how they're
underserved.

SPEAKER_03 (32:19):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (32:19):
And if you can just follow that principle, who cares
if it's a true blue or a bluewithin a red?
Like that is futile in a lot ofways because I do think your
cost outlay to go true blue,like Kim said, is going to be
pretty substantial, right?
So, oh, you pull this up.
What does it say?

SPEAKER_02 (32:34):
Yeah, I just want to let's just look at those uh
differences.
I'm just asking AI.
So uh blue ocean strategyfocuses on complete uh competing
in an existing market.
Yeah.
Whereas a blue ocean involvescreating an uncontested market
space.
Uncontested.
See what I'm saying?
Like the lift is so real in ablue ocean strategy.
Can you do it?
Totally.

SPEAKER_00 (32:52):
See, but this okay, okay, but it mentions as an
example uh cirque de Soleil.
And uh again, so is that reallya true blue, or is that just an
iteration on circuses?

SPEAKER_02 (33:02):
So what they're doing is it it's a completely
different experience.
It's it's building on conceptsfrom existing markets and then
presenting it in a way that isso unique and different.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 (33:12):
See, so that's where I'm like, it's blue with and
red.

SPEAKER_02 (33:14):
So we're still like we're still piggybacking, right?

SPEAKER_00 (33:16):
So I'm like, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02 (33:18):
To your point, M, to your point, yeah, I don't think
it's ever truly been a red oceanversus a blue.
It's been a red ocean with ablue ocean offer that has
shifted the marketplace.
And so you are absolutely right.
And whoever told you isbrilliant to make that
differentiation because I thinkthat as the more we talk about

(33:38):
sophistication in markets, themore we realize it's about the
offer and it's about theexperience, more than it is
about um changing the paradigmcompletely.
Like, for example, even ChatGPT,right?
What are they doing that is sorevolutionary?
I mean, you had Siri before youhad GPT.
You could ask Siri anything andit would answer.

SPEAKER_00 (33:55):
It's it's next gen, basically next gen search
engine.

SPEAKER_02 (33:58):
Exactly.
It's next gen, but it'spersonalized search engine.
And it's personalized in everypossible way.
Yeah.
So it's really interesting tothink about this.
And I think that uh ultimatelywe would be very well served
thinking about ways in which wecan become so differentiated, so
unique that we are set apart inthe marketplace completely.

(34:19):
For example, if you compare likea Birkin bag versus a bag that
you could just get at Target orWalmart, you know, very
different.
You have people who spend$50,000, maybe even more,
$100,000,$200,000 for a Birkinbag, which is crazy.
It functions the same way asyour regular bag.
You can get an all-leather bagfor maybe like$200, right?
And it's beautiful, and maybeit's even handcrafted in Italy

(34:42):
or something crazy.
Um, what is the price point?
What's the difference?
Nonsense.
It's all, but it's all status,right?
It's what it says about you.
It's about the experience ofgoing and buying something
luxury that you can't get whenyou're just ordering something
um, you know, from the internetor you or you're buying it at, I
don't know, TJ Maxx.
So it's very interesting whenyou create an experience that

(35:05):
separates you in themarketplace.
People are willing to pay crazydollars because it's a Birken
bag.
Can you tell I don't buy luxuryluxury bags?
I'm like, this is the biggestwaste of time and money.

SPEAKER_00 (35:17):
I forget what book I was reading.
This is where it would be you'dI'd be careful about going too
blue.
Uh I think it was hooks, Ithink.
Anyways, regardless, the pointremains.
Um the the the studies had shownthat the that they leverage uh
about building new platforms,like true blue ocean platforms,
right?
Like we're talking like big techtype stuff, right?

(35:37):
Um, was you want to when they gotoo far removed from
familiarity.
So like let's say you build uhlet's say you build a platform
and or you're overhauling oneand you go with something that
looks totally new, right?
Like completely different thananything they've ever seen
before.
Um, what ends up happening,unfortunately, is people they
they don't have that basis pointof familiarity and it feels too

(35:58):
they're not going to it'soverwhelming.

SPEAKER_03 (36:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (36:01):
It's overwhelming when they have to learn
something entirely brand new touse your platform.
And so they found was that youneeded to have a slight
different take, but built onfamiliarity.
Oh yeah.
So, like, for example, if youbuilt like your own community
app, like we have our own app,right?
And it looks very similar toFacebook, like very similar, but
it has cool functions.
So what happens is when peoplejoin that program, uh, they look
at it and they're like, Oh, itlooks like Facebook, but it has

(36:22):
all these other cool whistlesand bells that we've added to it
that Facebook doesn't have,right?
And so they're like, Oh, that'sfun.
This is like Facebook, so I'mgonna use it fast because it
doesn't I don't have tooverthink how to use this dumb
thing.
But then also cool, you're gonnasee these really cool features
that it has that are in additionto.
So be careful because even thebig tech bros, what so let me
get back to my point here,sorry.
What they've studies found wasthat if they want to do

(36:44):
something super radical, theyhad to slow walk it in
iterations.
So they had to be like, e getthis, even changing the colors
if they were too radical, theyhad to do like one shade at a
time.

SPEAKER_02 (36:53):
So like five shades of changing just the color so
people could get used to itbecause people are used to
looking at it and uh finding thebutton that is usually red or
orange or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 (37:04):
So here's the thing, guys.
When you do these massive brandoverhauls, when you go in and
you're just like, it's my logo,it's my website, and you just
rip everything apart, you mightactually be doing the opposite
of what you should be doingbecause you're people that are
actually following you.
Now, if you're brand new and noone's in your site, who cares?
Do whatever you want.

SPEAKER_02 (37:16):
But like people who are actually following you.

SPEAKER_00 (37:18):
People that are actually following you, if you
just start throwing outplaybooks and changing things
and you start losing familiarityand doing something wild, you
might actually lose the peoplethat are loyal to you if you do
it too quickly, right?
So be careful about these blueocean things.
Like don't just go chasing thesethings because they're things.
That's the equivalence ofchasing shiny objects in a lot
of ways.
So just be careful about that.
Um, but but ultimately, I thinkbuild upon what exists and build

(37:40):
upon what are people saying?
Are they how are theyunderserved?
You can't go wrong there.

SPEAKER_02 (37:43):
I love it.
That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 (37:44):
We got another one.

SPEAKER_02 (37:45):
Do we have time for another one?

SPEAKER_00 (37:46):
Let's go.

SPEAKER_02 (37:46):
Okay.
Okay, we have time for anotherone.
This one came in a while ago.
Um, and I hadn't had a chance toactually talk about it on the
podcast.
But um this is Ronnie, he says.

SPEAKER_03 (37:58):
Shout out, Ronnie.

SPEAKER_02 (38:01):
Um, all right, so I have a question that I I would
be interested to run by you.
Um, great at pure thoughtleadership, meaning developing
new products, principles,philosophies that create
ridiculous results for clients.
But I have zero desire to talkabout it outside of writing
books or speaking or doing guestpodcasting.
I know we need content, videoand written, to show off what
we're doing, but the more I askGod about it, the more sure I am

(38:23):
that I'm not supposed to be apublic figure, at least not in
that way.
In theory, I could imaginehiring a full-time spokesperson,
employee to play that role, butI worry they won't be able to
muster sufficient passion andpersonality to be meaningful and
effective.

SPEAKER_03 (38:37):
Yeah, that's tough.

SPEAKER_02 (38:38):
Oh, Ronnie.
Okay, I got a couple ideas justbased on some of the brands that
I've um actually seen.
I think Sam Cart is a goodexample of that.
Yeah.
Um, where it's a it's a youknow, two brothers that lead
basically the the whole uh thewhole brand philosophy, all of
the actual uh frameworks, on allthe thought leadership.

(38:59):
And I don't necessarily thinkthat it's impossible to hire an
employee.
Um they actually have a creativedirector that they brought in
who does a lot of their videocontent because they're busy,
you know, Sean did that too, Camwith Think Media.

SPEAKER_00 (39:11):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 (39:13):
So exactly yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (39:14):
I mean, you're looking at it, right?
I wasn't even in this world.
I was off doing building, yeah,you know, trying to build
franchises and do all this stuffall over the country and stuff.
And then I just fell into thisworld.

SPEAKER_02 (39:23):
So it's absolutely possible, especially if you're
willing to bring in a partner.
Now, that's going to requireconcessions, right?
Like you can't have your a yourcake and eat it too.
You've got to make sure thatthere's concessions.
So bringing in a partner isprobably the easiest way of
doing this because you havesomeone who's running alongside
you, who shares your values, whoactually understands your
philosophy and can communicateit.

SPEAKER_03 (39:45):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (39:45):
Just as well, if not better, than you can.
And that is the goal.
Um, having an employee is hardbecause you just build up a
public persona.
I've seen a lot of people, youknow, Patrick but David is a
great example of this, right?
He has a team who comes andactually shares uh the stage
with him.
I'm not saying you need tofollow that exact model, but it
is hard to build up a publicpersona, essentially, to just

(40:07):
then have them say, Well, peace,I'm out, I quit, I found a
better job.
Right.
Like that is challenging.
Um, so you would probably bebetter served bringing someone
in who at least has some kind ofequity in the company, um, who
has some kind of that's a wholerabbit hole.
Yeah, minority partner, someonewho actually uh is committed to
the long-term vision of thecompany and seeing it through.

(40:28):
But it's absolutely possible.
And something that I wouldreally encourage you to continue
praying through that God reallyreveals, you know, what path you
should take because it's a veryimportant decision.

SPEAKER_00 (40:38):
Yeah.
Um, we've definitely seen thisbefore.
And so I definitely think youshould do that.
But I a thousand percent agreethat person needs to have it
needs to be an equity situation.
Because the last thing you wantto have, and that's again,
that's a whole hairy can ofworms.
It is that's you guys have tothink about this.
A uh a business partnership is Ithere's a joke about it.
It's like it's three times hardto get out of and twice as
expensive as a divorce orsomething like that.

(41:00):
Right?
It gets it's true.

SPEAKER_02 (41:01):
And you come into it thinking the number one thing
you think about is how do webreak up?
That's the question.
Yeah, yeah.
That's the question.

SPEAKER_00 (41:07):
So we've talked we've had these conversations.
Not not, I mean, we have theseconversations about like what if
we don't want to do thisanymore.
So like we've had theseconversations and you know, what
will we do and stuff like that?
And so I have seen people thatfeel they hire a marketing
person that is the the voice,right?
It is kind of and they're not apartner, they're just whatever.
And then that person kind offeels like they have too much
leverage and they kind of showup that way because they're

(41:28):
like, Well, what are we gonnado?
I'm the face of the brand, I'mthis, this, this, right?
And so, yeah, you definitelywant to be careful and you have
to really think that through.
Um I I don't did did he did itmention like how that person,
Ronnie, did you mention how hewas showing up?

SPEAKER_02 (41:41):
Oh yeah, he said he's doing uh, you know,
speaking engagements and guestpodcasting, which look, there's
also something to be said aboutan in-between, right?
Like something that I suggestedto Ronnie earlier was like, hey,
you could have someone on yourteam clip all of the content
from the guest podcasting.
That's how you show up in theinterim.
A lot of people do that.
Um, a lot of people do that andthey don't have their own show,
they're not uh a you know, thepublic persona, but they do

(42:04):
guest appearances and that'senough.

SPEAKER_00 (42:06):
Or they're super technician oriented.
So like we've had people,physical product people that
have no interest at all in theirand they don't want they don't
want any platform.
Yeah, they don't want to dosocial, they don't want to do
blog, they don't want to doYouTube.
So we tell them like just be agenius technician, right?
And you're basically gonna giveyour product to
microinfluencers, let them gonuts talking about it, let them
promote it.
What and sometimes it works andsometimes it doesn't.
Sometimes it works.

(42:26):
Like, that's the caveat becauseif it's really dialed in and
like you truly just want to bethe genius technician behind
everything, that can work, butit really has to solve a
fundamental need for the rightperson to where they just
absolutely love the product andthey just champion for it.

SPEAKER_03 (42:38):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (42:38):
So you can get those brand ambassador types, and I
would argue, so we've done thisbefore, actually working on one
right now that it's a sideproject, it's a side quest.
Uh, Kim knows me and my sidequests.

SPEAKER_03 (42:46):
Side quest.

SPEAKER_00 (42:47):
Yeah.
So I have some side quests thatI work on.
But uh right now, like I have noconnections at all in this
particular industry that we'reworking on building an app for.
But I have a friend that does.
And like he's gonna go be themassive superstar that he is.
Uh, he's a professional athlete.
But, anyways, that's that's theonly tease you get.
But um uh but yeah, so he'sgonna be the one that kind of
like goes in is the brandambassador for it, and he's

(43:07):
gonna be heavily compensatedcommission-wise for doing that.
So we can just focus on buildinga product because I don't have
time to go meet people in thespace and build relationships
and do all the things, but it'slow-hanging fruit for him, and
he just needs somebody to helpwith platform, which we can do,
right?
Platform meaning what we'rebuilding for him.
I love it.
So that's an opportunity wherethere's alignment there and
there's a level of trust there,and you kind of have proximity
to somebody who just has aunique opportunity that I
wouldn't have otherwise.
So, in those situations, you maynot need platform at all.

(43:29):
You could just leverage currentrelationships and make it
mutually beneficial.

SPEAKER_02 (43:31):
Yeah, I love it.
Oh, is it a rap?

SPEAKER_00 (43:34):
It's a rap.
It's a rap.
So you see guys, I had to tell,I gotta tell you guys.
So we always joke about my myADD brain.
I'm always sending Kim littlelike reels about my ADD brain.
So I have a confession.
So I don't know if you rememberthe Usher song, This is my
confession.
Oh my god.
So Ken is like, you're gonnahave to make some concessions.
I was doing a dad joke remix.
These are my concessions.

SPEAKER_02 (43:53):
Just went at that.
Okay, we're gonna stop it.

SPEAKER_00 (43:56):
We should end it on a high note.
No, everything I just said justwent out the window.
Everybody's gonna remember justthat dad joke.

SPEAKER_02 (44:02):
No, I love it.
Listen, guys, we'd love toanswer more of your questions in
a future episode.
We're also gonna be doingsomething cool called marketing
makeovers.
So we're gonna leave in thedescription of this video and
podcast a little link where youcan actually submit your
marketing makeover if you wantus to come.
We'll be gentle, I promise.
Yeah, on video.

SPEAKER_00 (44:20):
I'm not gonna shred you.

SPEAKER_02 (44:21):
No, no, it is not a shredding.

SPEAKER_00 (44:22):
It's not marketing roasts, it's marketing
makeovers.

SPEAKER_02 (44:25):
Exactly.
So we'll give you, you'll tellus what your marketing conundrum
is and we'll give you an entirestrategy uh here on the show.
I think it'll be really fun.
But also, if you have questionsthat you'd love us to answer in
the next couple episodes, let usknow in the comments below.
We'd love to hear about you knowyour thoughts about blue ocean
versus red ocean.
We'd love to hear your thoughtson what you're thinking about
content and lower uh priceoffers, really, and what it

(44:46):
takes to sell those versushigher uh higher ticket stuff.
There's lots of amazingquestions and we're here and
we're listening.
So every time you send us anemail, fan mail on the podcast,
we got you.
So if you're listening in, thereis a little link that says ask
me a question on any of theplatforms.
Just look for it in thedescription.
It actually sends a text messageto our fan mail inbox, and we
can actually answer yourquestions there.

(45:08):
You can tell us what you thinkof the show so far because we
want to make this something thatyou really enjoy.
So thank you for being here withus today.
Chris, do you want to sayanything else?

SPEAKER_00 (45:15):
This is my consideration.
Bye.

SPEAKER_02 (45:17):
All right, we love you.
Un beso.
Bye for now.

unknown (45:20):
Bye.

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