July 24, 2025 • 51 mins
In this special episode, we revisit a powerful conversation reflecting on the life, career, and enduring legacy of the one and only Hulk Hogan. Originally aired on ESPN 97.5 in Houston, TX in 2019, this interview captures the larger-than-life presence of the wrestling icon, his influence on pop culture, and the impact he made on generations of fans around the world.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey guys, Brad Gilmour here, want to give a big
shout out to our title sponsor, Walker Texas Lawyer. If
you are a love would have been injured in an accident,
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Speaker 2 (00:20):
Oh Broadcasting live from Houston, Texas and around the world
and are around the world.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
TV host, best selling author and radio personality, Brad Gilmour
brings you a collection of conversations with stars from movies.
Matthew McConaughey, Brad Gilmore, Mark wohlburg By, how are you
the legendary mister Christopher Lloyd Christopher, how are we doing?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I'm doing good?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Says Jessica Alba and Lizzie Matthis ladies, thank you so
much for joining me.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Kevin Coster joins us, Thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (00:55):
Thank you Television.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Jimmy Fallon joins us this morning.
Speaker 6 (00:59):
Jimmy, how you doing, my friend?
Speaker 5 (01:00):
Good morning. Thank you so much Brad for having me.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
I appreciate this.
Speaker 6 (01:03):
Bud, Kelly Ripperd, thank you, for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Comedy Jay Leno joins us, Jay, how you doing?
Speaker 7 (01:08):
Hey, Brad?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
What's going on?
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Chris Tucker is in the bill and Chris Tucker, good
morning to you.
Speaker 6 (01:12):
Hey you.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
George Lopez joins us right now, George, how are you doing? Sorry?
Good morning music.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
Lola Manro, thank you, thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
The legendary front man of A C d C.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Brian Johnson joins us right now, Brian, how you doing?
Speaker 5 (01:28):
Good morning?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Brock? What looking at? Talking me?
Speaker 5 (01:30):
Funny Live Megan Trainer.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Chloe Bailey joins us.
Speaker 5 (01:35):
I appreciate your time, appreciate you and more and more.
This is the collection, now your host of the boat.
Speaker 8 (02:00):
Okay, okay, this is the Hall of Fame on ESPN
ninety seven.
Speaker 6 (02:18):
Five and on ESPN ninety seven five dot com.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Live from the ESPN ninety seven five studios. Here's Booker
t and Brad Gilmore.
Speaker 7 (02:29):
Welcome back inside the Hall of Fame. You hear the
music every time you've heard that music before. What colors
you see?
Speaker 5 (02:37):
Red? Yellow? That's what yellow?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Brother?
Speaker 7 (02:40):
Hey guys, I told you a very special guests stepping
inside the Hall of Fame with myself and Brad Gilmore
tonight and now, hey, welcome to the show, guys, the incredible.
Speaker 5 (02:49):
Oh h you doing hey man, We're doing good man,
We're doing real good man.
Speaker 7 (02:55):
First of all, thank you for stepping inside the Hall
of Fame. I'm sure this is not something new to
you stepping inside the Hall of Fame. Of course, it's
been there before. I've been there before. You know, it's
not your first rodeo or anything.
Speaker 5 (03:04):
Man.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
But how you feel, bro, everything's good man. I'm actually
glad to be back in the Hall of Fame. Son.
Speaker 5 (03:12):
Well, let's call you a two time Hall of Famer.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Also, you know what, they didn't give me a ring
the second time. I'm gonna have to get them to
get them on that. But it was it was great
to see you guys last week in New York.
Speaker 5 (03:24):
Man. No, man, that's what the business is.
Speaker 8 (03:26):
Man.
Speaker 5 (03:26):
Every time, you know, we we see each other, it's
like it's like old times. Man. I was. I was
just talking to Brad a second ago.
Speaker 7 (03:33):
I was in Detroit this weekend and I was with
Rick Flair, you know, with the Nasty Boys, you know,
Hacksaw Jim Dugget, Hacksaw Jim Dugget.
Speaker 5 (03:40):
Every time we somewhere, but he's got everybody serious. Man,
But it just feels so good.
Speaker 7 (03:47):
Man. But definitely, let me say first and foremost, I'm
glad to see you back.
Speaker 5 (03:52):
And what what you belong inside to w W.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Yeah, I mean it's it's cool to uh be hanging out.
I mean, it's just uh, it's just every time I go,
I go, man, I'm so much older than all these
young kids are in the ring. Now. I'm like, oh,
he smokes, you know, because even my son Nick, who
he's like twenty nine years old, you know, and he
said something the other day, this guy I went off
to a club the other night, I'm the oldest guy
(04:17):
in there. You know, my son's only twenty nine. That's
twenty nine years old. That's how I felt when I
walked in in the WWE. You know they're for WrestleMania
Hall of Fame. Man, Yeah, yeah, I said the guy.
The guys you know, like the guys who are about
thirty five forty years old, they like the AJ styles
and the U and all the new guys stuff were
all there. They're all of a sudden old timers, right.
Speaker 5 (04:41):
That was crazy. Man.
Speaker 7 (04:42):
I remember back at WCW when I was the youngest
guy that I was. I wasn't the youngest, but I
was close. I was close to the youngest guy in
the locker room. And then I remember waking up one
day and I was like, Man, I'm the oldest guy
in the room.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
Now happened?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
You know?
Speaker 5 (04:54):
The time flies? Man. But he mean you started, man,
you started in.
Speaker 7 (04:58):
The heyday of wrestling. I think in the eighties. Man,
the eighties was you know, rock in wrestling. That's what
it was, man, it was it was. It was like
being a rock star. Man, What was it like when
you first started back then? That's that's what I want
to delve into the beginning of your your rise before
you was actually hold Hogan, What was that like?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Well, brother, I started before the eighties. Man. I was
down here in Florida, you know, and watching Florida Championship Wrestling,
and you know, I'm going to see Dusty Roads every
week and he wasn't on TV. We were pissed off
because you know we didn't see Dusty Roads. We were, man,
we were hell to pay for a whole nother week.
But you know, I got to see all the great
(05:40):
wrestlers come in through here. Just when his territories. The
promoters were all friends or they had a business arrangement.
So Vince mcmahonr sending down like Ivan cole Off and Superstar,
Billy Graham and I even Putsky So I get to
see everybody come through here in Florida. And so I
got started and and actually had my first match at
(06:01):
the end of seventy seven seventy eight. You know, so
it was a little different back then. You know, I
told the story twenty million times because you know the
Performance Center, you know, they they'll pay you to work
out or pay you to train, and they get doctors
and trainers and all that stuff. And then the first
day I went down for workout, they broke my leg
and said don't ever come back. So so it was
(06:22):
a change a little back in the day.
Speaker 7 (06:24):
You know, Well, my thing is this people asking me
all the time. Actually a few one of my friends
named Dominic Man we grew up together, and he goes, man,
uh man, book, did you did you know you was.
Speaker 8 (06:36):
Going to be?
Speaker 5 (06:37):
You know, like this? Did you know you was going
to be favorite? Did you when? Did you know that
this was it for you?
Speaker 7 (06:43):
That this that that light bulb moment, that man, this
is what I'm going to do, and I don't want
to do anything else.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Well, I always I grew up a wrestling in his hand.
My father took me to my first match when I
was like nine years old, and I got hooked. I
got hooked from day one. So I was always a
wrestling fan. But you know, in between playing baseball and
stuff like that and high school. In high school, I
started playing music. While some kids would go out and
(07:12):
work on the weekends, I was playing in a band,
you know, making making money playing music, you.
Speaker 7 (07:18):
Know, and the girls liked the guys in the band too,
you know, so that's a.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Good no no. But what happened was I started playing
music and I said, man, I don't want to work
a real job. I said, good god, you know. So
I ended up playing music for like ten years. But
I was always that wrestling fan. And then when I
had that opportunity to meet these guys. Of course, you
didn't know back then if they're going to break your nose,
or if you said wrestling with sake, they beat your ass,
(07:44):
or if you said that was a nice show, they
punched in the face. So I was so afraid of
the wrestlers that I had because Eddie Graham took real
good care of protecting the business down area. He was
the promoter. So when I was playing in the band
The Last One, I came back to Florida after playing
all through the landing up to the Carolinas, and I
came back to Florida. I had a really good band
(08:05):
the last band I was in, and all the wrestlers
started coming. I was in Tampa, all the wrestlers would
show up there after the armory, or if I was,
you know, over in Orlando or where I was, the
wrestlers would show up. So once I started talking to them,
I realized, you know, they weren't going to rip my
arms off and eat them. And so that's why I asked,
you know, to get into business. So actually, because I
(08:29):
played music for so long and I didn't want to
work a real job, I started thinking when I when
I when I tried to be a wrestler, I said, man,
I don't want to work a real job, so I'm
going to try to be a wrestler. So I just
basically wanted to make a living. I want to be
good enough for wrestle to make a living. I never thought
this was going to take off.
Speaker 5 (08:45):
Wow. Wow. Uh.
Speaker 7 (08:47):
And that's normally the way it is, you know, I
mean it's it's a lot of times, you know, you
slip on a banana peel and next thing you know,
you get the rocket put on you. You're going straight
to the moon. That's that's just the way it is.
And that's kind of like the way it happened for me.
I didn't see myself doing this at all. I never
I never dreamed of being a wrestler when I was
a kid or anything like that.
Speaker 5 (09:06):
I loved it more than anything.
Speaker 7 (09:08):
I couldn't wait to watch it on Saturday night and
didn watch that that same show that next Sunday morning,
And it was so exciting to watch the same show
because you knew exactly what was going to happen.
Speaker 5 (09:18):
But it was crazy.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
But you never know, like what what what thing that
you do is going to lead to that big moment
in your career. I mean, I mean, uh, hop was
was doing the Rocky movie? How important was that to
get you to the next level? Because before you weren't
the incredible Hulk Hogan and then after Rocky three, I mean,
it feels like that was kind of what kicked everything
in motion.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Well, it kind of was to the general fan fair,
but I kind of I kind of like beat around
the circuits for a few years.
Speaker 5 (09:47):
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
When when I broke in here in Tampa, you know,
I was I was basically everybody's gopher.
Speaker 5 (09:53):
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
My girlfriend had a brand new car, so the wrestlers
had me driving her car. And I would have you know,
Rocky Johnson and Gordon Nelson and Buddy told all these
guys in the back of the car, and I was,
I was there their driver from Tampa to Miami. Even
if I wouldn't wrestling, they'd make me drive them five
hours there, five hours back. So you know, I bounced around.
(10:14):
I wrestled in Tampa, I quit, then I went back up.
Then I went up to uh Pee Cola and wrestled
for the fullers up through there and through dos in
Alabama and Birmingham, and I lasted for a while, and
then I went up and had a little short run
in Memphis, you know, and I quit again. And then
I went back to the docks because I was I
was a union laborer in between bands. You know, if
(10:37):
you're playing in the band, and you know the best
way to make money is to get on those ships
and load those ships, you know. So I finally get
to a point after all those years of bouncing in
and out of one from on the docks, right, I
quit and I was done with the wrestling. And I
went back and I was working on the docks as
along shoreman, and the Briskets called me and they said, hey, man,
there is a guy, Vince McMahon Sr. This was about
(10:58):
nineteen seventy nine, almost say he's got Vincing Mann Senior
that wants to talk to you. I said, I don't
want to wrestle, you know, I'm done with it, And
they said, no, this is a big man's territory, New York,
Madison Square Garden, all this stuff. So I flew up
there and then Senior gave me the name hal Cogan.
But that's where the original break came. Because that run
(11:18):
I had up there from seventy nine to eighty, I
wrestled Andre and Chay Stadium, you know, and I got,
I get and I got some really good breaks there.
And then right when I was getting ready to go
to work for the Carolinas, that mind whatever. It is
a Crockett territory where they had all those long trips
back in the day. Right when I was getting ready
to go to work there, I got a call from
(11:39):
Stallone to do the movie. I went back and forth
with Vin Senior about it. He said, if you go
to the movie, you'll be fired here and you'll never
work work here again.
Speaker 5 (11:48):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
So you know, I wrestled for about another six months
in the w W w F and then I told
Vin Senior was going to the movie, and he went.
Speaker 5 (11:56):
Out of his mind.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
He said, you'll never work here again. But that actual
break came way before the Rocky movie. The break came
when I went up to New York.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
Wow. Wow. But it could have been over just like that.
Speaker 7 (12:09):
And my brother was talking about that story, and you know,
it was over almost before it got started.
Speaker 5 (12:12):
But hey man, that's the way it is. Hey man.
Speaker 7 (12:16):
You know, I remember one of the first times I
ever met you, and I'm sure you don't remember it,
but it was here in the in Houston at the
Summit and you guys had a show.
Speaker 5 (12:29):
Here, and I remember going into the.
Speaker 7 (12:32):
Locker room and because Barbarian and had got my brother
and I in, he was real cool with us and
he got us in the back and we weren't even
wrestlers back then. We were just trying to try to
get in and he brought us back and he let
us meet all the guys, and and what I remember
the most, this is what I remember the most. I
(12:56):
walked in and there was this one room and this
one room, and it had all of the Ultimate Warriors
memorabil you up in it, and it had you know, you.
Speaker 5 (13:07):
Know warrior, this warrior, that warrior was, you know, it
was his own locker room.
Speaker 7 (13:12):
And and then I went into this other locker room
and you and all the boys were playing cards.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
And laughing, and it was just like a party going on.
You know. I remember that. I'm serious, that'd be That's
what That's what it was. Before the match.
Speaker 7 (13:28):
It was like, you know, a gathering of man, let's
have some fun, y'all guys playing cards.
Speaker 5 (13:32):
All the guys used to play cards back then.
Speaker 7 (13:34):
I didn't play cards, you know, and uh, you know,
everybody was having fun. And that's what I remember the
most about the business back back then. What do you
think the biggest difference it is about the business then
in the business.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Now, Well, I mean, you know, as far as the
wrestling business, the biggest differences, you know, for me another.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
Tough quest this show. That's a tough question, you know, it's.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Not really because you're you're just talking about the party
in the locker room tells you about all those changes.
But the biggest change that I've seen in the business
is the production is now the star. Before you had
the Harlem Heat, you had t Stevie Ray, you had
you Know Sting, you had Roddy Piper, you had Andre
(14:30):
the Giant, you had the Ultimate War. You had to
mash them and those were the stars. Now the production
is the star, and it's such a big, wide, fat
monster coming down the road. That w W is such
a big powerful monster that if you know, Dean Ambrose
gets hurt, you know, or a Roman's Range has a
problem with leukemia or something like that, the monster keeps going,
(14:53):
you know what I mean. Where Before, if Paul Cogan
got hurt or something happened with Piper, it screwed up
the whole machine, you know. So that's the biggest difference
I've seen is that the machine is getting so big
and the you know, wrestle Mania's coming, they advertise them
put on sale. They really don't even have to advertise
any matches to tell you the truth. They didn't want to.
They'd sell out. So that's the biggest difference I've seen
(15:15):
is that the machine and the production is now the star.
And as far as the party in the dressing room,
that's all gone. You know, that's history, you know, And
it's just guys are more serious about the business. They're
more focused. They got a tougher schedule, they got more content,
they got more shows, they got so many places they
got to be. It can't be screwing around drinking beirdal
(15:36):
three or four o'clock in the morning. They have to
be on, you know. And that's that's the change in
the locker room, because they can't go out and raise
hell and party every night because they, you know, for
us to go to the next town the next day,
they have like five or six or seven other things
business wise that they might have to do before they
even get to that town the next day, such as
go to the hospitals or do charity events or the
(15:57):
bullying events. So these guys have a full schedule. Also,
they have to be businessman twenty four hours a day.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
Man, I tell you, that was the perfect answer. I
see those guys coming off the overseas tours. You know,
they come to Monday night raw.
Speaker 7 (16:11):
And I say, man, I look at them, man, man,
how did you guys do it? I thought I had
a tough schedule. Hey, ol, stick around, man, I gotta
take a quick break. But we're gonna be back inside
the Hall of Fame in one little borough.
Speaker 5 (16:29):
They want to know.
Speaker 7 (16:30):
How many bombs out of what just never found on
the piece check sciences. Try the song the contract Philosophus
for wonder rent Bus.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Next he said the lass.
Speaker 5 (16:45):
This is there too, Tall Jones And you're listening to
ESPN nighty seventy five.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
I found boy, you were listening to the Hall of
Fame on ESPN ninety seven.
Speaker 6 (17:10):
Five and on ESPN ninety seven five dot com.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Live from the ESPN ninety seven five studios. Here's Booker
T and Brad Gilmour.
Speaker 5 (17:22):
Welcome back inside the Hall of Fame. Y'all. Before we
do anything, we're just gonna let this roll just for
a second, just let.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
It flowed right there, said boy Man.
Speaker 7 (17:39):
Hey, y'all, man, we got the incredible Hogan inside the
Hall of Fame. And I'll tell you couldn't be for
more fitting music. Right there brought to You by DJ
Jerry Hell and it takes me right to the place
I need to be. Man nineteen ninety six. The formation
(18:01):
of the nw O, Hall, Nash and Hogan. That's what
I want to talk about, hok hey Man, when this
group was for him. Man, first and foremost, you were
playing a totally different role. You had the black Beard
and then you had to go I mean the blood
(18:21):
stripe in and you totally went black on. Everyone went
away from the red and yellow, the hero that we
once you know, looked up to. What was it like,
you know, being you know, the good guy for so long?
I mean I ne me personally. I never thought I
would see Hulk Hogan ever play the bad guy. But
(18:44):
what was it like? What were you dealing with inside
actually playing that role?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Well, once I got into it, man, it was it
was the best move I made in a long long time.
But you know, at the time, I was kind of
like taking a little hiatus from the w c W
and I was taking like a month off doing one
of the those low budget kids movies you know that
I was famous for doing.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
And by the way, I love Three Ninjas, High Noon
and Mega Mountain. I watched it about eight thousand times
as a child.
Speaker 5 (19:16):
I just that's great.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
But yeah, I was doing I was doing some movie
out in la and I think we were filming Santa
with Muscles in the middle of July, where I had
to wear a Santa suit the whole time for the movie.
But uh, you know, Eric Bischoff was telling me that,
you know, Hall and Nash were coming in, and uh,
I've always been a single wrestler, you know, and I
(19:38):
just I've been in a couple of tag teams here
and there, but I just felt real uncomfortable, you know,
being in tag teams because I was so into doing
my own thing and pacing my own matches, you know.
And I didn't have a partner that I had, you know,
any synergy with any you know. You know. You know,
I'm trying to say I didn't click with anybody, and
I've never done that before. So I was worried about
(20:01):
the three guys, you know, because I'd always been a
single wrestler, so and I knew these guys were coming
over from the WWE, and I knew they were part
of the click with Trip h and Shawn Michaels and
at the time, Shawn Michaels and then I didn't know
Trip Lace very well, but at the time, Shawn Michaels,
I don't think I was his favorite person at that time,
(20:22):
and I knew Kevin and Scott were close with him.
So when they were coming over and Eric was, you know,
basically asking me about doing it, I waited till the
very last minute. I wouldn't give him the decision. And
I saw it and I saw Scott come on TV,
you know, and I said, I told Eric, I said,
let me, uh, let me see how they received Kevin Nash.
And then when I saw Scott and Hall together and
(20:43):
I saw that, the perception was they were still working
with the w w F. At the time, no one
knew that they were free agents and they were done
they quit, or they were they were doing the contracts
or events let them out of it. But the perception
was that they still were with w w F and
they were indeeding the w c W. And when I
(21:03):
saw that that's what the fans thought, I said, oh,
this is going to be perfect. So I kind of
had called Eric up and told him not to do it,
but just thank god you called me, because I was
just getting ready to take a different person instead of you,
and I think he's going to pick sting, But uh
it was you know, those Paul and Nashby and w
w F guys and me being at the time the
(21:25):
ultimate w w F guy, they worked much better I
think with me in there than anybody else. But once
we started clicking, Man, I knew that first night I
told everybody got you kids were bumming gas to get
to high school, and I was selling the world out.
You know, I knew it was like as soon as
I turned heel. You know, we didn't nobody wrote our
problems back then. We's still thing. You know, I knew
(21:46):
what the reaction we go with people throwing stuff in
the ring. I knew we were onto something big time.
Speaker 5 (21:50):
Yeah, that's the thing.
Speaker 7 (21:52):
Uh the wrestler know when the fans up throwing the
cups and you know so kind of trashed. How aebout
you guys love that more anything? And it took off
like a rocket man. And that's the thing with me,
I always wondered. I always wondered, was that, you know,
by design, did somebody slip on a banana peel and
(22:15):
create the NWL.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Well, Eric came up with the idea. You know. I
remember him talking about the New World Order and it
was on the dollar bill. If you turn a dollar
bill over, it says New World Order on it. And
he was telling me there was a group of wrestlers
in Japan that kind of worked like we're doing the
kind of like the New World Order things. So Eric,
I don't know if he came with the idea or
(22:39):
got it over in Japan, but he's the one that
approached me with it. Yeah, And I really didn't get
it at first until I started listening to Mac Tan
and a bunch of other stuff, you know, and then
I kind of figured it out. I'm a slow, a
little slow learner, but as soon as I figured out
what was going on, man, I jumped all over it
because it did get red hot.
Speaker 5 (22:58):
N man, it was it was. It was white hot,
you know, that's how hot it was. I'm serious, man.
Speaker 7 (23:04):
It literally took over the wrestling world, and uh that
that's that's That's one of the things I want to
talk to you about. Uh do you think it was
in certain aspects? You think it was a good thing
a bad thing because the n w O was so
over it definitely overshadowed every every guy in the locker room.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
In a sense, I think I think if Eric could
have went back, I think he could probably handled it
much differently. You know, I think, believe it or not,
Eric being in that spot, it's not like he'd been
in twenty territories, you know what I'm saying. So for
him to run the company like that, this is like
(23:43):
his first territory, really, yeah, you know, and when your
first territory, you do make mistakes. It's not like he'd
worked for Barnett or work for Crockett, or work in Portland, Oregon,
and he promoted you know, California and promoted you know, Canada.
This was his first gig, bro.
Speaker 5 (23:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yeah, so this was like, I don't want to say
it was this preliminary match, because they threw him right
in the main event. You know, he's running the company,
so of course you're gonna make mistakes. I think he
probably would have rethought a lot of things if he
could do it over now.
Speaker 5 (24:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (24:12):
I mean I had a conversation with Eric, you know,
when he when he asked me a question about the
n W I gave man asked and he goes, oh,
I didn't know you felt that way well, and the
thing is twenty hindsight is twenty twenty. You know, if
you can go back and change everything in the world
wouldn't be what it is today.
Speaker 5 (24:29):
But I do.
Speaker 7 (24:30):
I always thought, man, the nWo literally could still be
the biggest thing in wrestling.
Speaker 5 (24:36):
Today if that thing would have been done right, If
it wasn't.
Speaker 7 (24:40):
The black and Red, the Red and Black, the l
w O, I mean just everything just went crazy. But
I just I always thought as far as factions go,
I still see the T shirts today, people still I
mean brand new, brand new, So somebody getting, somebody getting
that money. But I tell you, man, I just thought
it could have been the biggest thing that ever happened
(25:01):
in professional wrestling. And one thing I want to ask
you about and and all you got to do is
just get it could just be one uh you know,
yes or no.
Speaker 5 (25:10):
Ogan knows best if you could do that all over
again with you.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Well, I'm gonna answer that question, but I'm gonna I'm
gonna go back to what you're just talking about for
one second. You think the nWo could be still be
the biggest thing today even though we watered it down
a lot. Too many guys in didn't handle it right.
A lot of guys sometimes didn't want to bring their
wrestling boots there. They'd rather talk than wrestle, and all
(25:37):
that crap that was going on. You know, even with
the red end of the Old Black NW, all the
mistakes we made, forget all that stuff. When I went
back to work in WWF and I wrestled The Rock,
It's like none of those mistakes mattered. When we walked
into the WWF. We were red hot, bro. I mean
(26:00):
when I when I locked up with the Rock and Toronto,
they booed him out of the building. I mean, it
was it was crazy that wrestled in the eighteen match.
Speaker 5 (26:08):
You know, No, that's exactly what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
And after that night, Vince made me go and put
the red and yellow.
Speaker 5 (26:15):
Arm exactly because when we came in.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
All the babyfaces, Triple H and The Rock and Stone Cold.
You know, we're the guys that have been trying to
put Vince out of business for ten years. Now, we're
coming in as Vince's poison and we're getting to push.
We really didn't even get a push. They just threw
us out there and they wanted to see what happened
and we rocked the place man, and all of a sudden,
you know, all the baby faces up there are getting
(26:41):
booed by the guys that have been trying to put
us out of business, and they changed that real quick.
Speaker 7 (26:46):
Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, but that's what that's
what I really mean. I really feel like, you know,
hauled Nash and Hogan, if that faction wouldn't have never
been war already down with anything else. I'm talking about
the red and black, Black and red Dad at.
Speaker 5 (27:07):
You guys, you three guys.
Speaker 7 (27:09):
Literally as far as factions go, hands down, there would
not even be a question at all.
Speaker 5 (27:17):
And that's why I just said it was mismanaged.
Speaker 7 (27:20):
And one night, Hey, I gotta take a quick break
before you asked that second part, because my producers are
telling me, uh, book, we gotta take a break.
Speaker 5 (27:27):
Hey, we're gonna take a quick break.
Speaker 7 (27:28):
We're gonna be stepping back inside the Hall of Fame
with the incredible Hulk Hogan.
Speaker 5 (27:33):
In one momento, we need a new restaurant to go to.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
You sit CultureMap dot com to get the latest restaurant
and bar news from culture Map, Food Adad.
Speaker 5 (27:57):
There, Eric Sammler, not only.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Fu you were listening to the Hall of Fame on
ESPN ninety seven.
Speaker 6 (28:17):
Five and on ESPN ninety seven.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Dot com Live from the ESPN ninety seven five studios,
Here's Booker T and Brad Gilmour.
Speaker 7 (28:28):
Welcome back inside the Hall of Fame. Booker T along
with Brad Gilmore on the line with the Incredible Hulk Hogan,
Lady than gentlemen, and the question.
Speaker 5 (28:39):
Was asked, man, yes, a no question.
Speaker 7 (28:41):
Man uh Hogan knows bets if you had a chance
to do it all over again, but.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Yeah, I would.
Speaker 5 (28:49):
You know.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
The thing is, all these families that these reality shows,
the odds are most of them end up getting destroyed. Yeah,
some way or in some shape or form. But when
I went into that reality show, to be completely honest
with you, my brother is my marriage was already looking
(29:11):
really bad, and my wife was really unhappy because the
whole time we were married for twenty three years, she
thought we were going to end up in California living there.
But you can ask anybody back in the day to
try to work off the West Coast. It'd kill you
to try to work off the West Coast when we
were running full time like that. Most of my businesses
(29:32):
on the East coast end up in Connecticut because I
was in the office a lot back in the day
when nineteen eighty three, eighty forty five up till ninety,
I was in the office all the time, was then,
and then finally we got Patterson to come in and
sit there for twelve fourteen hours at a shot. But
you know, she was unhappy, and so I thought that
(29:53):
maybe doing the show, you know, because we did a
one hour special on DH one about me being a
stage dad. Yeah, he got some crazy ratings. And then
d H one came back and me said the ratings
were so crazy, I would you like to do a
TV series? And I explained to my family, just how
I get, you know, autographs and fans twenty fo hours
a day, you know, and you guys are always asking
(30:15):
me how I do that. This is going to happen
to you if we do a TV show and everybody
raise their hand. They wanted to do it, which I
knew they would, you know, my kids were young, but
I thought that it would give my wife something like
a job and make her happy. And it didn't. But
I didn't know that at the time, so I would
have done it all over again. It's the same circumstances, you.
Speaker 7 (30:37):
Know, you know, and that's that's an undestund So I
could buy that right there, because I'm gonna tell you
I can't.
Speaker 5 (30:45):
I can't.
Speaker 7 (30:46):
I can't explain to you how many times my wife
didn't say it, hey maybe like no, no, no, we
ain't doing it, you know, ain't doing it. And then
I ended up breaking down and hey, we doing it. Yeah,
I totally, I totally can understand it and see it
from that light, you know, and you look at you know,
looking from the outside, looking at it.
Speaker 5 (31:06):
And you just you just wonder, you just wondering that.
Speaker 7 (31:09):
And and and like you said, every every time I've
seen someone do a reality show, nothing, nothing really good
has come out of it. But going into the from
that perspective, I definitely could see it. But let's move
a little bit forward, you know, because there's something people
be wanting to hear. I mean, text last browing up, Hey, Jerry,
I want Jerry to play a clip before we even
(31:30):
get into Jerry, play that clip for me real quick.
Speaker 5 (31:34):
What we want and after the time we want the.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Gold suck up.
Speaker 5 (31:41):
Man.
Speaker 7 (31:42):
You know that moment right there back in w c
W that was that was the worst moment in my life.
At that point in time, I definitely want to stick
my head in the sand and uh and never come out.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
I thought that let me ask let me ask you
this question. God, I don't really remember during that time
did it Did it hit you right away or was
it moved it later on? It turned into the life.
Speaker 7 (32:09):
I mean, immediately it was the worst day of my life.
I cringed. I cringed and I cringed when I said it.
I mean I literally like like chills went through my
body and I was.
Speaker 5 (32:21):
Like, oh God, God, what did I just say?
Speaker 7 (32:23):
And and the thing is, what what was you know,
What's not ironic about it. That's a word that I
used to use, like on a regular basis, like every day.
You know, in my neighborhood where I grew up, that
it was common. It's just something that we said. But
in the wrestling business until that day, until that day,
none of my peers had ever heard me use that word.
(32:46):
Black guys are white guys. No one had ever heard
me say that. My wife literally the first time she
saw me, and you know, for the first year or so,
she was like, she didn't even think I listened to
rap music because I was so straight laced, and when
I said that, I was like, good God, man, I froze.
I wanted to, like I say, I thought I was.
(33:07):
I thought that was the end of my career. And
my question is, you know, why didn't you, you know,
be more ticked off about it? Why didn't you, you know,
lobby to go in and get me fired.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
I didn't understand at that time what was going on.
That's why I just asked you, I said, did this
happen immediately? I mean, did this or did this happen
later on, you know, year, six months or two years later.
I wasn't aware how intense it was, you know, So
honestly I didn't. I haven't ever gone into lobby to
(33:44):
get anybody fired, much less over that word because whenever
that was, I don't know what year was that again,
I think, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't. I don't remember
it being as sensitive as the politically correct environment now,
So I if it went down, I wasn't aware of
(34:06):
it for years. If it did happen, and I was
aware of it at one went in one ear and
out the other, because I was so used to hearing it,
so I didn't know it was that intense back then,
so you know, I wasn't aware to be anybody. Plus
I didn't I'm not one of those guys who got
there to say fire one of the boys for no
matter what they did. You know, that's not who I am.
Speaker 7 (34:26):
Well, I mean I say that because you know so
many people like like you say right now, it's such
an inflammatory thing. And and I said it pretty much
about you, and and I do remember my brother and
I we talked about it all the time.
Speaker 5 (34:39):
You may not even remember it because, like you said,
it like it went over your head. It wasn't.
Speaker 7 (34:43):
It really wasn't much. But to me it was at
that point in time, literally it was everything. And I
remember seeing you and catering the following week after it happened,
and Randy Savage he was there as well, and uh,
Randy goes, what do you think about Booker calling the
N word? And you go, well, if I'm the in word,
(35:05):
I'm a good d word.
Speaker 5 (35:06):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 7 (35:07):
That's what That's what was said. And the thing is,
until this conversation, we've never talked about it ever. No,
it's never it's never come up or anything like that.
I mean, in all of these years, we've never said
anything about it until this day right here, you know,
(35:28):
for twenty nineteen, the first time we've talked about it.
And and I just want to say, uh, personally, brouh,
I thank you. I appreciate it because you know, you
was labeled as a racist, okay, And the thing is,
and I just want to put it out there. I
think if I think if you were, if you were
a racist, that was a moment, that was an opportunity
(35:51):
that a racist would would have taken advantage of and say, man,
I'm gonna get this ninja fired. You gonna work for me,
you know what I mean, That's what I think a
racist would would have done. And and and then as
well as me, I've been black for for now fifty
four years, and I've been in a lot of racial situations,
(36:12):
and and I kind of like, you know, kind of
like know the lay of the land. You could you
could tell a racist by the people that he hang
out with his friends. That's that's how you tell racist.
Are you could tell a racist by the way uh
uh a racist kids act?
Speaker 5 (36:28):
That's how you could tell a racist.
Speaker 7 (36:30):
You know, you know immediately, how did you feel after
your situation, you know, say, making a racist comment and
then being racist labeled a racist?
Speaker 5 (36:43):
How did you feel about that?
Speaker 7 (36:48):
Because people may make then I say that because me
people make comments all the time. Doesn't make them, you know,
it doesn't make them that.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
You're saying, words are one thing, actions turned up exactly.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Well, I mean, and that's a lot of people don't understand,
is people can say a word or make a mistake
and that doesn't mean that's who they are. You know.
The people that keep bringing it up and keep pushing
it forward, those are the people I worry about. But
for me, it was really a delayed reaction. I mean,
that's kind of like why I asked you. I had said,
(37:21):
use the word, and it was Now it's going on
almost thirteen years ago. What's the date down nineteen almost
twenty Yeah, yeah, now I don't even know what year
it is anymore. So it was set in two thousand
and six, and I was made aware of it probably
see when did the Dark Doctor trial start? I was
made aware of it probably. I don't know time very well,
(37:45):
so I'm probably saying about five years ago. I don't
think longer than that, Yeah, six years maybe five years.
So it was set in two thousand and six, and
then I was made aware of it about five years ago.
And to tell you the truth, I don't remember that conversation,
but that definitely was me, you know, and I definitely
(38:06):
said it, and I mean total idiot, you know, totally
out of control, bad situation. There's a million excuses for it,
but it was me. I said it, and I've tried
to be accountable for it. But the thing is, the
people that know me, and it's really cool that you
would say just because somebody says the word doesn't that
(38:28):
doesn't define them or doesn't mean who they are. Because
the people that know me. The first person that called
me when the publicity came out was my minister, Michael Beckliss.
You know, he runs the Agape Church or in Cauler City.
He came to my house and married me and Jennifer,
and he's one of my good friends and he's out
fro American, you know. So the first thing that happened
was my minister called me. He goes, Terry, have I
(38:49):
heard We've got some problems. I explained, explained to Michael
what happened, and he goes, you know, first off, God
forgives you. And he says, you know, whenever you have
a small problem, tell your big God about your small problems.
I said, Michael, I've already talked him about it, and
he goes, don't worry what people think about you, worry
what God thinks about you. And he gave me some
(39:10):
really good uplifting advice, and uh, you know, after that,
there was a kind of support from all my friends,
and the hardest part was trying to explain to people
that didn't know me. And some people only knew me
because of that. Oh my god, we never heard all
holding into the world and say this crazy word knows
on the news. That was the hardest part was trying
(39:32):
to explain to people who didn't know me, you know,
who I really was, and it was so hard to
And there's a lot of people now that you know,
I've apologize to on several different levels and several times,
and and there's still some people that you know, the
jury's still out. Some people are still tentative, and you know,
I'm trying to, you know, show them, like you guys
(39:53):
been talking about by my actions, that I really am.
So it's been a really tough time, you know, but
a lot of people are very forgiving, and a lot
of people that you know are understanding. You know, they've
made some serious mistakes in their life too. And and I think,
you know, normal people that have good hearts kind of
understand that, you know, if someone does make a mistake,
(40:15):
you know, you need to give them a second chance
and see who they really are. So it's been a
tough time, brother, I won't joke about it at all,
But I'm just grateful now that my friends never left me,
and the fans never left me, and the people that
at a few of the people are a lot of
the people that don't know who I really am. I've
I've had an opportunity to speak too many of them
(40:36):
as I can and try to not make an excuse
but be accountable and say, yeah it was me, I
did it, but that's not who I am, you know.
Speaker 7 (40:44):
Yeah, yeah, I tell you that somebody had asked me,
you know, man, would what would you do?
Speaker 5 (40:51):
How do you feel about it? I say, Man, if
people judge me for.
Speaker 7 (40:55):
What I did, you know more than twenty years ago,
had robbery, and if people still judge me, be you know,
you know on that you know they wouldn't know who
I am at all, man. I mean because that that
one day, that that did not define who I am.
It definitely did not. And I say that as far
as you know, as far as your friends and whatnot,
(41:19):
I'm good. I'm good friends with Knobs and now she
would Knobs, k Nobbs. She just talking about you all
the time back in the day, man, And I'm hanging
out with holding Man, I'm on the boat this week.
Speaker 5 (41:28):
You know, you know you all kinds of stories.
Speaker 7 (41:31):
Man, I've heard all kind of great stories and none
of them were racist stories or anything like that. As
well as Knobs and I. You know, now, Knobs, I could,
I could, I could say this, man, I can. I
can honestly say this. Knobs for years, Brian Knobbs, He's
the only white guy that I've ever given a past
to call me the N word, you.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Know, almost like every time I was around, and he
was calling.
Speaker 7 (41:56):
I mean, you know, God, what's crazy though, And what's
crazy is I was in Toyo, Japan, Knobs and I
and we was in this bar. It was called a
rolling Stone and Knobs and I. Man, we stayed out
till like four o'clock in the morning. Man.
Speaker 5 (42:11):
We was just hammering them back. Man.
Speaker 7 (42:12):
We had so much fun. We had so much fun.
And I'm gonna tell you right now, if if if,
if if I had, if I needed anybody to have
my back, you know, it would have been Knobs.
Speaker 5 (42:24):
That was the guy.
Speaker 7 (42:25):
That was the guy who would have had my back
no matter what went down. We went down together.
Speaker 5 (42:29):
I know that. I was just with him just this
past weekend.
Speaker 7 (42:31):
So so it's it's it's saying that Knobs just this
past weekend, Knobs going, hey, man, I love you brother.
Speaker 5 (42:40):
I can't say that word anymore though, but I love
you man.
Speaker 8 (42:42):
You know.
Speaker 7 (42:43):
So even if it's so political now and everything is
so everybody's so uptight about everything, everything is analyzed.
Speaker 5 (42:51):
Everybody got a comment.
Speaker 7 (42:52):
Like you say, a lot of people that you know,
judged you, never saw you, never knew you, never watched you.
It was their first time reduction, you know. And people
these days, they seem to hold on to everything. It's
a different world that we live in today, and I
think with social media being the way it is, I
(43:13):
think that's a big part of it.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
Yeah, we need to I mean, I agree with what
you're saying, Book. I think that a lot of times
it's you can't forgive and forget it seems like any more,
like you know, move past it. But you know, I've
always deferred to you on. I remember when this whole
incident happened. You know, we were on the phone together
right when this happened to you. I mean, Booker and
I were on the phone talking about and Booker said
(43:35):
this to me, and I'm saying it right now. I
mean he said, look, if it wasn't for Hulk Hogan,
I wouldn't have had a wrestling career. Hulk Hogan looked
at me and my brother and said, that's your's hottest
tag team. Push him to the top of the mountain, right.
And I don't think that that's what goes back to
the words versus actions.
Speaker 5 (43:49):
Now.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
Just because we live in a more uptight community and
culture now, that doesn't mean that it's okay to say
those words, you know what I mean, I know people
are more sensitive than normally.
Speaker 5 (43:59):
It's not okay to say.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
But we learned from him.
Speaker 5 (44:01):
We move on.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
You pat each other on the back, you say love
your brother won't happen again. I mean, I think that's
just how you're supposed to be in life.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
Yeah, I mean the good part is is the respect.
I mean, if we're disrespecting anybody, we all need to
be re educated. And I totally agree now that everybody has,
you know, been kind of like more thoughtful and more
caring that you know, the word doesn't work. I totally
get that, you know, But being real about it, I
(44:32):
still hear it all the time. You know, I don't
say it. I learned my lesson. I know it's unacceptable
and I don't want to hurt anybody. So I I
had a hard lesson, but I've learned my lesson. But
it's just like New Year's Eve. I was in Miami
New Year's Eve and a buddy and buddy of mine's club.
He he owns the live club. They're in Fountain Blue
and one of the top Afro American actors, one of
(44:54):
the highest paid actors. He's got a wrestler, one of
the Afro American act actors in the business. Came up
to me and he goes, oh my gosh, my sew
and so my sew and so he dropped the word,
Oh my gosh. I grew up. I was five years
old and I've been in love with you. You're my
favorite wrestler, Bang Bang Bang. And I looked at him
(45:15):
and my wife and I Lizard Shawd. We couldn't believe
who it was. It was so crazy. But I forget
some of these actors that are making fifteen twenty million
bucks in the movie that are forty five years old.
They grew up five years old being half of maniacs.
I forget that, you know. Yeah, And so when he
said it caught me so off guard. I said, whoa brother,
I love you too. Man. We can't say that if
(45:36):
you know what.
Speaker 5 (45:38):
It was.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
It was crazy, but you know, in the real world,
they it's still thrown around.
Speaker 5 (45:43):
It is.
Speaker 7 (45:44):
I was watching a thing on HBO just last week
and they had a bunch of NBA players. They were
around doing like a like a table like the shop
shop exactly exactly, and Bro, they were just dropping it.
They were just dropping it. And these the guys that
play in the NBA. And you are exactly right. That's
something that we've talked to bout on the show all
the time. As far as you know it said on
the radio. You know, throughout the day, you can't you know,
(46:07):
hear it enough on the radio without Sometimes they don't
even bleep it out.
Speaker 5 (46:10):
They just let it play through.
Speaker 7 (46:12):
We had an officer here from Galveston on the show
and he was talking about in school, you know, the
black kids said, the Asian kids said, the white kids said,
it's just it's just a word, and and the word
is destructive and that that's that's the the end game,
you know, because you know when you get when you're going,
you know, for an uh, for an interview, you're trying
(46:33):
to get a job, you got to know how to
change the levels. And just like just like myself having
that that interview and it slipped out, it can happen.
Speaker 5 (46:43):
If if it could happen to me, it could happen
to you.
Speaker 8 (46:46):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Well, the thing was your energy. You were excited you
during doing an interview, and you had a cadence, you
had timing, and it just came out it kind of
for that second but a second later, you know, and
I had some crazy energy, but I was mad and
I was pissed off, and there's a million excuses and
it came out. But for me understanding how powerful that
(47:09):
is and how many people it hurt, I'll never say
it again because I don't want to hurt people. I'll
come up with another word. You know, I don't need
that word. If I have love for somebody and I
see my best friend or my brother of the road,
I'm not calling my soul maid or my traveling partner,
and I'll come up with something. But I don't need
to use that word if it's going to hurt people,
(47:29):
and I don't. So I learned that lesson, and it
caught me by surprise, like I said, because you know,
I said in two thousand and six, and then all
of a sudden I heard the recording, you know, many
years later said whoa, where did this come from? But
it was me, and I was holy shit, I can't
believe I was talking like that. It was crazy.
Speaker 5 (47:48):
WHOA. Okay, I tell you, man.
Speaker 7 (47:51):
One of those things, man, it is one of the
things when you're in the heat of passion. We know
about the heat of passion. People murder and they eat
a passion. So words do come out and eat a passion.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
So my thing is this, at the end of the day,
there's nothing good that comes out of it.
Speaker 7 (48:11):
No, no, no, no, no no no. At the end
of the day, something did come out. I'm good come
out of it? I think, no, because I mean, it
is something that people need to you know, talk about.
Speaker 5 (48:22):
It is something people need to be educated on.
Speaker 7 (48:25):
And and our young generation these days, a lot of
times they just think we're just old guys and we're
just talking, you know, out the side of our neck,
and we really don't know what we're talking about. But
you know, people died because of that word, you know.
I mean, we fought wars, you know, because of that word.
And for us bringing it to the forefront and being
able to talk about it, you and I, you and I,
(48:49):
it means something. And you know, I've had people, you know,
say certain things about me on on on social media,
but just because I called you a friend, people don't
want to let things go. But but but people are
going to be people. It's nothing I could do to
change them. But those young kids out there that we
could educate that's listening to us right now talking about
(49:10):
that word, that perhaps will change them and motivate them
to Like my my.
Speaker 5 (49:16):
My nephew. He lives out in California.
Speaker 7 (49:18):
He hangs out with all of his buddies and all
of them, you know, they come up with each other
and they say, Hey, what's up, my ninja, Hey, what's up,
my ninja. They've changed the word. The narrative is still
the same. This is my love, this is my homeboy
right here. But just like you said, I could change
the word and I could use a different word, they
can too. And I hey, hey, hok hey, man, I
just want to thank you and uh for coming inside
(49:40):
the Hall of Fame and and more importantly than that, man,
I'm an hondred to be able to call you a friend.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Well, I'll tell you what you've I've always considered your
friend my brother. And seeing seeing Stevie the other night,
he was like, I said, damn you but good man,
go on. He goes, well, what kind of car you drop?
And I said, oh you guys said you haven't changed
a bit. All you want to do, you know. So
it was so great to see your brother the other night. Man,
(50:08):
And uh, it's just really cool man, you know it's
just uh, I got friends and I'm and I'm honored
to have you as a friend. And I just I
just realized how many people stuck with me through thick
and thin, and brother, that's that's strong. Brother, that's to
have friends that will do that for you, that's that's amazing,
you know, Amen.
Speaker 5 (50:25):
Hey man, I got you back, bro, hey Man.
Speaker 7 (50:27):
Like I say again, Man, I know you got to
get out of here, but uh again, I just want
to thank you for stepping inside the Hall of Fame
and clearing all the air.
Speaker 5 (50:36):
Man, clearing all the air. I love you, brother, my friend.
Speaker 2 (50:40):
All right, all right, thank you guys.
Speaker 5 (50:42):
Bye bye. Mhm m hm
Hey guys, Brad Gilmour here, want to give a big
shout out to our title sponsor, Walker Texas Lawyer. If
you are a love would have been injured in an accident,
whether that be a car, truck, motorcycle accident, or some
kind of other issue, hit up Walker Texas Lawyer at
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Speaker 2 (00:20):
Oh Broadcasting live from Houston, Texas and around the world
and are around the world.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
TV host, best selling author and radio personality, Brad Gilmour
brings you a collection of conversations with stars from movies.
Matthew McConaughey, Brad Gilmore, Mark wohlburg By, how are you
the legendary mister Christopher Lloyd Christopher, how are we doing?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I'm doing good?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Says Jessica Alba and Lizzie Matthis ladies, thank you so
much for joining me.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Kevin Coster joins us, Thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (00:55):
Thank you Television.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Jimmy Fallon joins us this morning.
Speaker 6 (00:59):
Jimmy, how you doing, my friend?
Speaker 5 (01:00):
Good morning. Thank you so much Brad for having me.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
I appreciate this.
Speaker 6 (01:03):
Bud, Kelly Ripperd, thank you, for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Comedy Jay Leno joins us, Jay, how you doing?
Speaker 7 (01:08):
Hey, Brad?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
What's going on?
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Chris Tucker is in the bill and Chris Tucker, good
morning to you.
Speaker 6 (01:12):
Hey you.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
George Lopez joins us right now, George, how are you doing? Sorry?
Good morning music.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
Lola Manro, thank you, thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
The legendary front man of A C d C.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Brian Johnson joins us right now, Brian, how you doing?
Speaker 5 (01:28):
Good morning?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Brock? What looking at? Talking me?
Speaker 5 (01:30):
Funny Live Megan Trainer.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Chloe Bailey joins us.
Speaker 5 (01:35):
I appreciate your time, appreciate you and more and more.
This is the collection, now your host of the boat.
Speaker 8 (02:00):
Okay, okay, this is the Hall of Fame on ESPN
ninety seven.
Speaker 6 (02:18):
Five and on ESPN ninety seven five dot com.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Live from the ESPN ninety seven five studios. Here's Booker
t and Brad Gilmore.
Speaker 7 (02:29):
Welcome back inside the Hall of Fame. You hear the
music every time you've heard that music before. What colors
you see?
Speaker 5 (02:37):
Red? Yellow? That's what yellow?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Brother?
Speaker 7 (02:40):
Hey guys, I told you a very special guests stepping
inside the Hall of Fame with myself and Brad Gilmore
tonight and now, hey, welcome to the show, guys, the incredible.
Speaker 5 (02:49):
Oh h you doing hey man, We're doing good man,
We're doing real good man.
Speaker 7 (02:55):
First of all, thank you for stepping inside the Hall
of Fame. I'm sure this is not something new to
you stepping inside the Hall of Fame. Of course, it's
been there before. I've been there before. You know, it's
not your first rodeo or anything.
Speaker 5 (03:04):
Man.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
But how you feel, bro, everything's good man. I'm actually
glad to be back in the Hall of Fame. Son.
Speaker 5 (03:12):
Well, let's call you a two time Hall of Famer.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Also, you know what, they didn't give me a ring
the second time. I'm gonna have to get them to
get them on that. But it was it was great
to see you guys last week in New York.
Speaker 5 (03:24):
Man. No, man, that's what the business is.
Speaker 8 (03:26):
Man.
Speaker 5 (03:26):
Every time, you know, we we see each other, it's
like it's like old times. Man. I was. I was
just talking to Brad a second ago.
Speaker 7 (03:33):
I was in Detroit this weekend and I was with
Rick Flair, you know, with the Nasty Boys, you know,
Hacksaw Jim Dugget, Hacksaw Jim Dugget.
Speaker 5 (03:40):
Every time we somewhere, but he's got everybody serious. Man,
But it just feels so good.
Speaker 7 (03:47):
Man. But definitely, let me say first and foremost, I'm
glad to see you back.
Speaker 5 (03:52):
And what what you belong inside to w W.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Yeah, I mean it's it's cool to uh be hanging out.
I mean, it's just uh, it's just every time I go,
I go, man, I'm so much older than all these
young kids are in the ring. Now. I'm like, oh,
he smokes, you know, because even my son Nick, who
he's like twenty nine years old, you know, and he
said something the other day, this guy I went off
to a club the other night, I'm the oldest guy
(04:17):
in there. You know, my son's only twenty nine. That's
twenty nine years old. That's how I felt when I
walked in in the WWE. You know they're for WrestleMania
Hall of Fame. Man, Yeah, yeah, I said the guy.
The guys you know, like the guys who are about
thirty five forty years old, they like the AJ styles
and the U and all the new guys stuff were
all there. They're all of a sudden old timers, right.
Speaker 5 (04:41):
That was crazy. Man.
Speaker 7 (04:42):
I remember back at WCW when I was the youngest
guy that I was. I wasn't the youngest, but I
was close. I was close to the youngest guy in
the locker room. And then I remember waking up one
day and I was like, Man, I'm the oldest guy
in the room.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
Now happened?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
You know?
Speaker 5 (04:54):
The time flies? Man. But he mean you started, man,
you started in.
Speaker 7 (04:58):
The heyday of wrestling. I think in the eighties. Man,
the eighties was you know, rock in wrestling. That's what
it was, man, it was it was. It was like
being a rock star. Man, What was it like when
you first started back then? That's that's what I want
to delve into the beginning of your your rise before
you was actually hold Hogan, What was that like?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Well, brother, I started before the eighties. Man. I was
down here in Florida, you know, and watching Florida Championship Wrestling,
and you know, I'm going to see Dusty Roads every
week and he wasn't on TV. We were pissed off
because you know we didn't see Dusty Roads. We were, man,
we were hell to pay for a whole nother week.
But you know, I got to see all the great
(05:40):
wrestlers come in through here. Just when his territories. The
promoters were all friends or they had a business arrangement.
So Vince mcmahonr sending down like Ivan cole Off and Superstar,
Billy Graham and I even Putsky So I get to
see everybody come through here in Florida. And so I
got started and and actually had my first match at
(06:01):
the end of seventy seven seventy eight. You know, so
it was a little different back then. You know, I
told the story twenty million times because you know the
Performance Center, you know, they they'll pay you to work
out or pay you to train, and they get doctors
and trainers and all that stuff. And then the first
day I went down for workout, they broke my leg
and said don't ever come back. So so it was
(06:22):
a change a little back in the day.
Speaker 7 (06:24):
You know, Well, my thing is this people asking me
all the time. Actually a few one of my friends
named Dominic Man we grew up together, and he goes, man,
uh man, book, did you did you know you was.
Speaker 8 (06:36):
Going to be?
Speaker 5 (06:37):
You know, like this? Did you know you was going
to be favorite? Did you when? Did you know that
this was it for you?
Speaker 7 (06:43):
That this that that light bulb moment, that man, this
is what I'm going to do, and I don't want
to do anything else.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Well, I always I grew up a wrestling in his hand.
My father took me to my first match when I
was like nine years old, and I got hooked. I
got hooked from day one. So I was always a
wrestling fan. But you know, in between playing baseball and
stuff like that and high school. In high school, I
started playing music. While some kids would go out and
(07:12):
work on the weekends, I was playing in a band,
you know, making making money playing music, you.
Speaker 7 (07:18):
Know, and the girls liked the guys in the band too,
you know, so that's a.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Good no no. But what happened was I started playing
music and I said, man, I don't want to work
a real job. I said, good god, you know. So
I ended up playing music for like ten years. But
I was always that wrestling fan. And then when I
had that opportunity to meet these guys. Of course, you
didn't know back then if they're going to break your nose,
or if you said wrestling with sake, they beat your ass,
(07:44):
or if you said that was a nice show, they
punched in the face. So I was so afraid of
the wrestlers that I had because Eddie Graham took real
good care of protecting the business down area. He was
the promoter. So when I was playing in the band
The Last One, I came back to Florida after playing
all through the landing up to the Carolinas, and I
came back to Florida. I had a really good band
(08:05):
the last band I was in, and all the wrestlers
started coming. I was in Tampa, all the wrestlers would
show up there after the armory, or if I was,
you know, over in Orlando or where I was, the
wrestlers would show up. So once I started talking to them,
I realized, you know, they weren't going to rip my
arms off and eat them. And so that's why I asked,
you know, to get into business. So actually, because I
(08:29):
played music for so long and I didn't want to
work a real job, I started thinking when I when
I when I tried to be a wrestler, I said, man,
I don't want to work a real job, so I'm
going to try to be a wrestler. So I just
basically wanted to make a living. I want to be
good enough for wrestle to make a living. I never thought
this was going to take off.
Speaker 5 (08:45):
Wow. Wow. Uh.
Speaker 7 (08:47):
And that's normally the way it is, you know, I
mean it's it's a lot of times, you know, you
slip on a banana peel and next thing you know,
you get the rocket put on you. You're going straight
to the moon. That's that's just the way it is.
And that's kind of like the way it happened for me.
I didn't see myself doing this at all. I never
I never dreamed of being a wrestler when I was
a kid or anything like that.
Speaker 5 (09:06):
I loved it more than anything.
Speaker 7 (09:08):
I couldn't wait to watch it on Saturday night and
didn watch that that same show that next Sunday morning,
And it was so exciting to watch the same show
because you knew exactly what was going to happen.
Speaker 5 (09:18):
But it was crazy.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
But you never know, like what what what thing that
you do is going to lead to that big moment
in your career. I mean, I mean, uh, hop was
was doing the Rocky movie? How important was that to
get you to the next level? Because before you weren't
the incredible Hulk Hogan and then after Rocky three, I mean,
it feels like that was kind of what kicked everything
in motion.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Well, it kind of was to the general fan fair,
but I kind of I kind of like beat around
the circuits for a few years.
Speaker 5 (09:47):
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
When when I broke in here in Tampa, you know,
I was I was basically everybody's gopher.
Speaker 5 (09:53):
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
My girlfriend had a brand new car, so the wrestlers
had me driving her car. And I would have you know,
Rocky Johnson and Gordon Nelson and Buddy told all these
guys in the back of the car, and I was,
I was there their driver from Tampa to Miami. Even
if I wouldn't wrestling, they'd make me drive them five
hours there, five hours back. So you know, I bounced around.
(10:14):
I wrestled in Tampa, I quit, then I went back up.
Then I went up to uh Pee Cola and wrestled
for the fullers up through there and through dos in
Alabama and Birmingham, and I lasted for a while, and
then I went up and had a little short run
in Memphis, you know, and I quit again. And then
I went back to the docks because I was I
was a union laborer in between bands. You know, if
(10:37):
you're playing in the band, and you know the best
way to make money is to get on those ships
and load those ships, you know. So I finally get
to a point after all those years of bouncing in
and out of one from on the docks, right, I
quit and I was done with the wrestling. And I
went back and I was working on the docks as
along shoreman, and the Briskets called me and they said, hey, man,
there is a guy, Vince McMahon Sr. This was about
(10:58):
nineteen seventy nine, almost say he's got Vincing Mann Senior
that wants to talk to you. I said, I don't
want to wrestle, you know, I'm done with it, And
they said, no, this is a big man's territory, New York,
Madison Square Garden, all this stuff. So I flew up
there and then Senior gave me the name hal Cogan.
But that's where the original break came. Because that run
(11:18):
I had up there from seventy nine to eighty, I
wrestled Andre and Chay Stadium, you know, and I got,
I get and I got some really good breaks there.
And then right when I was getting ready to go
to work for the Carolinas, that mind whatever. It is
a Crockett territory where they had all those long trips
back in the day. Right when I was getting ready
to go to work there, I got a call from
(11:39):
Stallone to do the movie. I went back and forth
with Vin Senior about it. He said, if you go
to the movie, you'll be fired here and you'll never
work work here again.
Speaker 5 (11:48):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
So you know, I wrestled for about another six months
in the w W w F and then I told
Vin Senior was going to the movie, and he went.
Speaker 5 (11:56):
Out of his mind.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
He said, you'll never work here again. But that actual
break came way before the Rocky movie. The break came
when I went up to New York.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
Wow. Wow. But it could have been over just like that.
Speaker 7 (12:09):
And my brother was talking about that story, and you know,
it was over almost before it got started.
Speaker 5 (12:12):
But hey man, that's the way it is. Hey man.
Speaker 7 (12:16):
You know, I remember one of the first times I
ever met you, and I'm sure you don't remember it,
but it was here in the in Houston at the
Summit and you guys had a show.
Speaker 5 (12:29):
Here, and I remember going into the.
Speaker 7 (12:32):
Locker room and because Barbarian and had got my brother
and I in, he was real cool with us and
he got us in the back and we weren't even
wrestlers back then. We were just trying to try to
get in and he brought us back and he let
us meet all the guys, and and what I remember
the most, this is what I remember the most. I
(12:56):
walked in and there was this one room and this
one room, and it had all of the Ultimate Warriors
memorabil you up in it, and it had you know, you.
Speaker 5 (13:07):
Know warrior, this warrior, that warrior was, you know, it
was his own locker room.
Speaker 7 (13:12):
And and then I went into this other locker room
and you and all the boys were playing cards.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
And laughing, and it was just like a party going on.
You know. I remember that. I'm serious, that'd be That's
what That's what it was. Before the match.
Speaker 7 (13:28):
It was like, you know, a gathering of man, let's
have some fun, y'all guys playing cards.
Speaker 5 (13:32):
All the guys used to play cards back then.
Speaker 7 (13:34):
I didn't play cards, you know, and uh, you know,
everybody was having fun. And that's what I remember the
most about the business back back then. What do you
think the biggest difference it is about the business then
in the business.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Now, Well, I mean, you know, as far as the
wrestling business, the biggest differences, you know, for me another.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
Tough quest this show. That's a tough question, you know, it's.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Not really because you're you're just talking about the party
in the locker room tells you about all those changes.
But the biggest change that I've seen in the business
is the production is now the star. Before you had
the Harlem Heat, you had t Stevie Ray, you had
you Know Sting, you had Roddy Piper, you had Andre
(14:30):
the Giant, you had the Ultimate War. You had to
mash them and those were the stars. Now the production
is the star, and it's such a big, wide, fat
monster coming down the road. That w W is such
a big powerful monster that if you know, Dean Ambrose
gets hurt, you know, or a Roman's Range has a
problem with leukemia or something like that, the monster keeps going,
(14:53):
you know what I mean. Where Before, if Paul Cogan
got hurt or something happened with Piper, it screwed up
the whole machine, you know. So that's the biggest difference
I've seen is that the machine is getting so big
and the you know, wrestle Mania's coming, they advertise them
put on sale. They really don't even have to advertise
any matches to tell you the truth. They didn't want to.
They'd sell out. So that's the biggest difference I've seen
(15:15):
is that the machine and the production is now the star.
And as far as the party in the dressing room,
that's all gone. You know, that's history, you know, And
it's just guys are more serious about the business. They're
more focused. They got a tougher schedule, they got more content,
they got more shows, they got so many places they
got to be. It can't be screwing around drinking beirdal
(15:36):
three or four o'clock in the morning. They have to
be on, you know. And that's that's the change in
the locker room, because they can't go out and raise
hell and party every night because they, you know, for
us to go to the next town the next day,
they have like five or six or seven other things
business wise that they might have to do before they
even get to that town the next day, such as
go to the hospitals or do charity events or the
(15:57):
bullying events. So these guys have a full schedule. Also,
they have to be businessman twenty four hours a day.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
Man, I tell you, that was the perfect answer. I
see those guys coming off the overseas tours. You know,
they come to Monday night raw.
Speaker 7 (16:11):
And I say, man, I look at them, man, man,
how did you guys do it? I thought I had
a tough schedule. Hey, ol, stick around, man, I gotta
take a quick break. But we're gonna be back inside
the Hall of Fame in one little borough.
Speaker 5 (16:29):
They want to know.
Speaker 7 (16:30):
How many bombs out of what just never found on
the piece check sciences. Try the song the contract Philosophus
for wonder rent Bus.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Next he said the lass.
Speaker 5 (16:45):
This is there too, Tall Jones And you're listening to
ESPN nighty seventy five.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
I found boy, you were listening to the Hall of
Fame on ESPN ninety seven.
Speaker 6 (17:10):
Five and on ESPN ninety seven five dot com.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Live from the ESPN ninety seven five studios. Here's Booker
T and Brad Gilmour.
Speaker 5 (17:22):
Welcome back inside the Hall of Fame. Y'all. Before we
do anything, we're just gonna let this roll just for
a second, just let.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
It flowed right there, said boy Man.
Speaker 7 (17:39):
Hey, y'all, man, we got the incredible Hogan inside the
Hall of Fame. And I'll tell you couldn't be for
more fitting music. Right there brought to You by DJ
Jerry Hell and it takes me right to the place
I need to be. Man nineteen ninety six. The formation
(18:01):
of the nw O, Hall, Nash and Hogan. That's what
I want to talk about, hok hey Man, when this
group was for him. Man, first and foremost, you were
playing a totally different role. You had the black Beard
and then you had to go I mean the blood
(18:21):
stripe in and you totally went black on. Everyone went
away from the red and yellow, the hero that we
once you know, looked up to. What was it like,
you know, being you know, the good guy for so long?
I mean I ne me personally. I never thought I
would see Hulk Hogan ever play the bad guy. But
(18:44):
what was it like? What were you dealing with inside
actually playing that role?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Well, once I got into it, man, it was it
was the best move I made in a long long time.
But you know, at the time, I was kind of
like taking a little hiatus from the w c W
and I was taking like a month off doing one
of the those low budget kids movies you know that
I was famous for doing.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
And by the way, I love Three Ninjas, High Noon
and Mega Mountain. I watched it about eight thousand times
as a child.
Speaker 5 (19:16):
I just that's great.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
But yeah, I was doing I was doing some movie
out in la and I think we were filming Santa
with Muscles in the middle of July, where I had
to wear a Santa suit the whole time for the movie.
But uh, you know, Eric Bischoff was telling me that,
you know, Hall and Nash were coming in, and uh,
I've always been a single wrestler, you know, and I
(19:38):
just I've been in a couple of tag teams here
and there, but I just felt real uncomfortable, you know,
being in tag teams because I was so into doing
my own thing and pacing my own matches, you know.
And I didn't have a partner that I had, you know,
any synergy with any you know. You know. You know,
I'm trying to say I didn't click with anybody, and
I've never done that before. So I was worried about
(20:01):
the three guys, you know, because I'd always been a
single wrestler, so and I knew these guys were coming
over from the WWE, and I knew they were part
of the click with Trip h and Shawn Michaels and
at the time, Shawn Michaels and then I didn't know
Trip Lace very well, but at the time, Shawn Michaels,
I don't think I was his favorite person at that time,
(20:22):
and I knew Kevin and Scott were close with him.
So when they were coming over and Eric was, you know,
basically asking me about doing it, I waited till the
very last minute. I wouldn't give him the decision. And
I saw it and I saw Scott come on TV,
you know, and I said, I told Eric, I said,
let me, uh, let me see how they received Kevin Nash.
And then when I saw Scott and Hall together and
(20:43):
I saw that, the perception was they were still working
with the w w F. At the time, no one
knew that they were free agents and they were done
they quit, or they were they were doing the contracts
or events let them out of it. But the perception
was that they still were with w w F and
they were indeeding the w c W. And when I
(21:03):
saw that that's what the fans thought, I said, oh,
this is going to be perfect. So I kind of
had called Eric up and told him not to do it,
but just thank god you called me, because I was
just getting ready to take a different person instead of you,
and I think he's going to pick sting, But uh
it was you know, those Paul and Nashby and w
w F guys and me being at the time the
(21:25):
ultimate w w F guy, they worked much better I
think with me in there than anybody else. But once
we started clicking, Man, I knew that first night I
told everybody got you kids were bumming gas to get
to high school, and I was selling the world out.
You know, I knew it was like as soon as
I turned heel. You know, we didn't nobody wrote our
problems back then. We's still thing. You know, I knew
(21:46):
what the reaction we go with people throwing stuff in
the ring. I knew we were onto something big time.
Speaker 5 (21:50):
Yeah, that's the thing.
Speaker 7 (21:52):
Uh the wrestler know when the fans up throwing the
cups and you know so kind of trashed. How aebout
you guys love that more anything? And it took off
like a rocket man. And that's the thing with me,
I always wondered. I always wondered, was that, you know,
by design, did somebody slip on a banana peel and
(22:15):
create the NWL.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Well, Eric came up with the idea. You know. I
remember him talking about the New World Order and it
was on the dollar bill. If you turn a dollar
bill over, it says New World Order on it. And
he was telling me there was a group of wrestlers
in Japan that kind of worked like we're doing the
kind of like the New World Order things. So Eric,
I don't know if he came with the idea or
(22:39):
got it over in Japan, but he's the one that
approached me with it. Yeah, And I really didn't get
it at first until I started listening to Mac Tan
and a bunch of other stuff, you know, and then
I kind of figured it out. I'm a slow, a
little slow learner, but as soon as I figured out
what was going on, man, I jumped all over it
because it did get red hot.
Speaker 5 (22:58):
N man, it was it was. It was white hot,
you know, that's how hot it was. I'm serious, man.
Speaker 7 (23:04):
It literally took over the wrestling world, and uh that
that's that's That's one of the things I want to
talk to you about. Uh do you think it was
in certain aspects? You think it was a good thing
a bad thing because the n w O was so
over it definitely overshadowed every every guy in the locker room.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
In a sense, I think I think if Eric could
have went back, I think he could probably handled it
much differently. You know, I think, believe it or not,
Eric being in that spot, it's not like he'd been
in twenty territories, you know what I'm saying. So for
him to run the company like that, this is like
(23:43):
his first territory, really, yeah, you know, and when your
first territory, you do make mistakes. It's not like he'd
worked for Barnett or work for Crockett, or work in Portland, Oregon,
and he promoted you know, California and promoted you know, Canada.
This was his first gig, bro.
Speaker 5 (23:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yeah, so this was like, I don't want to say
it was this preliminary match, because they threw him right
in the main event. You know, he's running the company,
so of course you're gonna make mistakes. I think he
probably would have rethought a lot of things if he
could do it over now.
Speaker 5 (24:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (24:12):
I mean I had a conversation with Eric, you know,
when he when he asked me a question about the
n W I gave man asked and he goes, oh,
I didn't know you felt that way well, and the
thing is twenty hindsight is twenty twenty. You know, if
you can go back and change everything in the world
wouldn't be what it is today.
Speaker 5 (24:29):
But I do.
Speaker 7 (24:30):
I always thought, man, the nWo literally could still be
the biggest thing in wrestling.
Speaker 5 (24:36):
Today if that thing would have been done right, If
it wasn't.
Speaker 7 (24:40):
The black and Red, the Red and Black, the l
w O, I mean just everything just went crazy. But
I just I always thought as far as factions go,
I still see the T shirts today, people still I
mean brand new, brand new, So somebody getting, somebody getting
that money. But I tell you, man, I just thought
it could have been the biggest thing that ever happened
(25:01):
in professional wrestling. And one thing I want to ask
you about and and all you got to do is
just get it could just be one uh you know,
yes or no.
Speaker 5 (25:10):
Ogan knows best if you could do that all over
again with you.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Well, I'm gonna answer that question, but I'm gonna I'm
gonna go back to what you're just talking about for
one second. You think the nWo could be still be
the biggest thing today even though we watered it down
a lot. Too many guys in didn't handle it right.
A lot of guys sometimes didn't want to bring their
wrestling boots there. They'd rather talk than wrestle, and all
(25:37):
that crap that was going on. You know, even with
the red end of the Old Black NW, all the
mistakes we made, forget all that stuff. When I went
back to work in WWF and I wrestled The Rock,
It's like none of those mistakes mattered. When we walked
into the WWF. We were red hot, bro. I mean
(26:00):
when I when I locked up with the Rock and Toronto,
they booed him out of the building. I mean, it
was it was crazy that wrestled in the eighteen match.
Speaker 5 (26:08):
You know, No, that's exactly what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
And after that night, Vince made me go and put
the red and yellow.
Speaker 5 (26:15):
Arm exactly because when we came in.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
All the babyfaces, Triple H and The Rock and Stone Cold.
You know, we're the guys that have been trying to
put Vince out of business for ten years. Now, we're
coming in as Vince's poison and we're getting to push.
We really didn't even get a push. They just threw
us out there and they wanted to see what happened
and we rocked the place man, and all of a sudden,
you know, all the baby faces up there are getting
(26:41):
booed by the guys that have been trying to put
us out of business, and they changed that real quick.
Speaker 7 (26:46):
Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, but that's what that's
what I really mean. I really feel like, you know,
hauled Nash and Hogan, if that faction wouldn't have never
been war already down with anything else. I'm talking about
the red and black, Black and red Dad at.
Speaker 5 (27:07):
You guys, you three guys.
Speaker 7 (27:09):
Literally as far as factions go, hands down, there would
not even be a question at all.
Speaker 5 (27:17):
And that's why I just said it was mismanaged.
Speaker 7 (27:20):
And one night, Hey, I gotta take a quick break
before you asked that second part, because my producers are
telling me, uh, book, we gotta take a break.
Speaker 5 (27:27):
Hey, we're gonna take a quick break.
Speaker 7 (27:28):
We're gonna be stepping back inside the Hall of Fame
with the incredible Hulk Hogan.
Speaker 5 (27:33):
In one momento, we need a new restaurant to go to.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
You sit CultureMap dot com to get the latest restaurant
and bar news from culture Map, Food Adad.
Speaker 5 (27:57):
There, Eric Sammler, not only.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Fu you were listening to the Hall of Fame on
ESPN ninety seven.
Speaker 6 (28:17):
Five and on ESPN ninety seven.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Dot com Live from the ESPN ninety seven five studios,
Here's Booker T and Brad Gilmour.
Speaker 7 (28:28):
Welcome back inside the Hall of Fame. Booker T along
with Brad Gilmore on the line with the Incredible Hulk Hogan,
Lady than gentlemen, and the question.
Speaker 5 (28:39):
Was asked, man, yes, a no question.
Speaker 7 (28:41):
Man uh Hogan knows bets if you had a chance
to do it all over again, but.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Yeah, I would.
Speaker 5 (28:49):
You know.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
The thing is, all these families that these reality shows,
the odds are most of them end up getting destroyed. Yeah,
some way or in some shape or form. But when
I went into that reality show, to be completely honest
with you, my brother is my marriage was already looking
(29:11):
really bad, and my wife was really unhappy because the
whole time we were married for twenty three years, she
thought we were going to end up in California living there.
But you can ask anybody back in the day to
try to work off the West Coast. It'd kill you
to try to work off the West Coast when we
were running full time like that. Most of my businesses
(29:32):
on the East coast end up in Connecticut because I
was in the office a lot back in the day
when nineteen eighty three, eighty forty five up till ninety,
I was in the office all the time, was then,
and then finally we got Patterson to come in and
sit there for twelve fourteen hours at a shot. But
you know, she was unhappy, and so I thought that
(29:53):
maybe doing the show, you know, because we did a
one hour special on DH one about me being a
stage dad. Yeah, he got some crazy ratings. And then
d H one came back and me said the ratings
were so crazy, I would you like to do a
TV series? And I explained to my family, just how
I get, you know, autographs and fans twenty fo hours
a day, you know, and you guys are always asking
(30:15):
me how I do that. This is going to happen
to you if we do a TV show and everybody
raise their hand. They wanted to do it, which I
knew they would, you know, my kids were young, but
I thought that it would give my wife something like
a job and make her happy. And it didn't. But
I didn't know that at the time, so I would
have done it all over again. It's the same circumstances, you.
Speaker 7 (30:37):
Know, you know, and that's that's an undestund So I
could buy that right there, because I'm gonna tell you
I can't.
Speaker 5 (30:45):
I can't.
Speaker 7 (30:46):
I can't explain to you how many times my wife
didn't say it, hey maybe like no, no, no, we
ain't doing it, you know, ain't doing it. And then
I ended up breaking down and hey, we doing it. Yeah,
I totally, I totally can understand it and see it
from that light, you know, and you look at you know,
looking from the outside, looking at it.
Speaker 5 (31:06):
And you just you just wonder, you just wondering that.
Speaker 7 (31:09):
And and and like you said, every every time I've
seen someone do a reality show, nothing, nothing really good
has come out of it. But going into the from
that perspective, I definitely could see it. But let's move
a little bit forward, you know, because there's something people
be wanting to hear. I mean, text last browing up, Hey, Jerry,
I want Jerry to play a clip before we even
(31:30):
get into Jerry, play that clip for me real quick.
Speaker 5 (31:34):
What we want and after the time we want the.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Gold suck up.
Speaker 5 (31:41):
Man.
Speaker 7 (31:42):
You know that moment right there back in w c
W that was that was the worst moment in my life.
At that point in time, I definitely want to stick
my head in the sand and uh and never come out.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
I thought that let me ask let me ask you
this question. God, I don't really remember during that time
did it Did it hit you right away or was
it moved it later on? It turned into the life.
Speaker 7 (32:09):
I mean, immediately it was the worst day of my life.
I cringed. I cringed and I cringed when I said it.
I mean I literally like like chills went through my
body and I was.
Speaker 5 (32:21):
Like, oh God, God, what did I just say?
Speaker 7 (32:23):
And and the thing is, what what was you know,
What's not ironic about it. That's a word that I
used to use, like on a regular basis, like every day.
You know, in my neighborhood where I grew up, that
it was common. It's just something that we said. But
in the wrestling business until that day, until that day,
none of my peers had ever heard me use that word.
(32:46):
Black guys are white guys. No one had ever heard
me say that. My wife literally the first time she
saw me, and you know, for the first year or so,
she was like, she didn't even think I listened to
rap music because I was so straight laced, and when
I said that, I was like, good God, man, I froze.
I wanted to, like I say, I thought I was.
(33:07):
I thought that was the end of my career. And
my question is, you know, why didn't you, you know,
be more ticked off about it? Why didn't you, you know,
lobby to go in and get me fired.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
I didn't understand at that time what was going on.
That's why I just asked you, I said, did this
happen immediately? I mean, did this or did this happen
later on, you know, year, six months or two years later.
I wasn't aware how intense it was, you know, So
honestly I didn't. I haven't ever gone into lobby to
(33:44):
get anybody fired, much less over that word because whenever
that was, I don't know what year was that again,
I think, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't. I don't remember
it being as sensitive as the politically correct environment now,
So I if it went down, I wasn't aware of
(34:06):
it for years. If it did happen, and I was
aware of it at one went in one ear and
out the other, because I was so used to hearing it,
so I didn't know it was that intense back then,
so you know, I wasn't aware to be anybody. Plus
I didn't I'm not one of those guys who got
there to say fire one of the boys for no
matter what they did. You know, that's not who I am.
Speaker 7 (34:26):
Well, I mean I say that because you know so
many people like like you say right now, it's such
an inflammatory thing. And and I said it pretty much
about you, and and I do remember my brother and
I we talked about it all the time.
Speaker 5 (34:39):
You may not even remember it because, like you said,
it like it went over your head. It wasn't.
Speaker 7 (34:43):
It really wasn't much. But to me it was at
that point in time, literally it was everything. And I
remember seeing you and catering the following week after it happened,
and Randy Savage he was there as well, and uh,
Randy goes, what do you think about Booker calling the
N word? And you go, well, if I'm the in word,
(35:05):
I'm a good d word.
Speaker 5 (35:06):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 7 (35:07):
That's what That's what was said. And the thing is,
until this conversation, we've never talked about it ever. No,
it's never it's never come up or anything like that.
I mean, in all of these years, we've never said
anything about it until this day right here, you know,
(35:28):
for twenty nineteen, the first time we've talked about it.
And and I just want to say, uh, personally, brouh,
I thank you. I appreciate it because you know, you
was labeled as a racist, okay, And the thing is,
and I just want to put it out there. I
think if I think if you were, if you were
a racist, that was a moment, that was an opportunity
(35:51):
that a racist would would have taken advantage of and say, man,
I'm gonna get this ninja fired. You gonna work for me,
you know what I mean, That's what I think a
racist would would have done. And and and then as
well as me, I've been black for for now fifty
four years, and I've been in a lot of racial situations,
(36:12):
and and I kind of like, you know, kind of
like know the lay of the land. You could you
could tell a racist by the people that he hang
out with his friends. That's that's how you tell racist.
Are you could tell a racist by the way uh
uh a racist kids act?
Speaker 5 (36:28):
That's how you could tell a racist.
Speaker 7 (36:30):
You know, you know immediately, how did you feel after
your situation, you know, say, making a racist comment and
then being racist labeled a racist?
Speaker 5 (36:43):
How did you feel about that?
Speaker 7 (36:48):
Because people may make then I say that because me
people make comments all the time. Doesn't make them, you know,
it doesn't make them that.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
You're saying, words are one thing, actions turned up exactly.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Well, I mean, and that's a lot of people don't understand,
is people can say a word or make a mistake
and that doesn't mean that's who they are. You know.
The people that keep bringing it up and keep pushing
it forward, those are the people I worry about. But
for me, it was really a delayed reaction. I mean,
that's kind of like why I asked you. I had said,
(37:21):
use the word, and it was Now it's going on
almost thirteen years ago. What's the date down nineteen almost
twenty Yeah, yeah, now I don't even know what year
it is anymore. So it was set in two thousand
and six, and I was made aware of it probably
see when did the Dark Doctor trial start? I was
made aware of it probably. I don't know time very well,
(37:45):
so I'm probably saying about five years ago. I don't
think longer than that, Yeah, six years maybe five years.
So it was set in two thousand and six, and
then I was made aware of it about five years ago.
And to tell you the truth, I don't remember that conversation,
but that definitely was me, you know, and I definitely
(38:06):
said it, and I mean total idiot, you know, totally
out of control, bad situation. There's a million excuses for it,
but it was me. I said it, and I've tried
to be accountable for it. But the thing is, the
people that know me, and it's really cool that you
would say just because somebody says the word doesn't that
(38:28):
doesn't define them or doesn't mean who they are. Because
the people that know me. The first person that called
me when the publicity came out was my minister, Michael Beckliss.
You know, he runs the Agape Church or in Cauler City.
He came to my house and married me and Jennifer,
and he's one of my good friends and he's out
fro American, you know. So the first thing that happened
was my minister called me. He goes, Terry, have I
(38:49):
heard We've got some problems. I explained, explained to Michael
what happened, and he goes, you know, first off, God
forgives you. And he says, you know, whenever you have
a small problem, tell your big God about your small problems.
I said, Michael, I've already talked him about it, and
he goes, don't worry what people think about you, worry
what God thinks about you. And he gave me some
(39:10):
really good uplifting advice, and uh, you know, after that,
there was a kind of support from all my friends,
and the hardest part was trying to explain to people
that didn't know me. And some people only knew me
because of that. Oh my god, we never heard all
holding into the world and say this crazy word knows
on the news. That was the hardest part was trying
(39:32):
to explain to people who didn't know me, you know,
who I really was, and it was so hard to
And there's a lot of people now that you know,
I've apologize to on several different levels and several times,
and and there's still some people that you know, the
jury's still out. Some people are still tentative, and you know,
I'm trying to, you know, show them, like you guys
(39:53):
been talking about by my actions, that I really am.
So it's been a really tough time, you know, but
a lot of people are very forgiving, and a lot
of people that you know are understanding. You know, they've
made some serious mistakes in their life too. And and I think,
you know, normal people that have good hearts kind of
understand that, you know, if someone does make a mistake,
(40:15):
you know, you need to give them a second chance
and see who they really are. So it's been a
tough time, brother, I won't joke about it at all,
But I'm just grateful now that my friends never left me,
and the fans never left me, and the people that
at a few of the people are a lot of
the people that don't know who I really am. I've
I've had an opportunity to speak too many of them
(40:36):
as I can and try to not make an excuse
but be accountable and say, yeah it was me, I
did it, but that's not who I am, you know.
Speaker 7 (40:44):
Yeah, yeah, I tell you that somebody had asked me,
you know, man, would what would you do?
Speaker 5 (40:51):
How do you feel about it? I say, Man, if
people judge me for.
Speaker 7 (40:55):
What I did, you know more than twenty years ago,
had robbery, and if people still judge me, be you know,
you know on that you know they wouldn't know who
I am at all, man. I mean because that that
one day, that that did not define who I am.
It definitely did not. And I say that as far
as you know, as far as your friends and whatnot,
(41:19):
I'm good. I'm good friends with Knobs and now she
would Knobs, k Nobbs. She just talking about you all
the time back in the day, man, And I'm hanging
out with holding Man, I'm on the boat this week.
Speaker 5 (41:28):
You know, you know you all kinds of stories.
Speaker 7 (41:31):
Man, I've heard all kind of great stories and none
of them were racist stories or anything like that. As
well as Knobs and I. You know, now, Knobs, I could,
I could, I could say this, man, I can. I
can honestly say this. Knobs for years, Brian Knobbs, He's
the only white guy that I've ever given a past
to call me the N word, you.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Know, almost like every time I was around, and he
was calling.
Speaker 7 (41:56):
I mean, you know, God, what's crazy though, And what's
crazy is I was in Toyo, Japan, Knobs and I
and we was in this bar. It was called a
rolling Stone and Knobs and I. Man, we stayed out
till like four o'clock in the morning. Man.
Speaker 5 (42:11):
We was just hammering them back. Man.
Speaker 7 (42:12):
We had so much fun. We had so much fun.
And I'm gonna tell you right now, if if if,
if if I had, if I needed anybody to have
my back, you know, it would have been Knobs.
Speaker 5 (42:24):
That was the guy.
Speaker 7 (42:25):
That was the guy who would have had my back
no matter what went down. We went down together.
Speaker 5 (42:29):
I know that. I was just with him just this
past weekend.
Speaker 7 (42:31):
So so it's it's it's saying that Knobs just this
past weekend, Knobs going, hey, man, I love you brother.
Speaker 5 (42:40):
I can't say that word anymore though, but I love
you man.
Speaker 8 (42:42):
You know.
Speaker 7 (42:43):
So even if it's so political now and everything is
so everybody's so uptight about everything, everything is analyzed.
Speaker 5 (42:51):
Everybody got a comment.
Speaker 7 (42:52):
Like you say, a lot of people that you know,
judged you, never saw you, never knew you, never watched you.
It was their first time reduction, you know. And people
these days, they seem to hold on to everything. It's
a different world that we live in today, and I
think with social media being the way it is, I
(43:13):
think that's a big part of it.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
Yeah, we need to I mean, I agree with what
you're saying, Book. I think that a lot of times
it's you can't forgive and forget it seems like any more,
like you know, move past it. But you know, I've
always deferred to you on. I remember when this whole
incident happened. You know, we were on the phone together
right when this happened to you. I mean, Booker and
I were on the phone talking about and Booker said
(43:35):
this to me, and I'm saying it right now. I
mean he said, look, if it wasn't for Hulk Hogan,
I wouldn't have had a wrestling career. Hulk Hogan looked
at me and my brother and said, that's your's hottest
tag team. Push him to the top of the mountain, right.
And I don't think that that's what goes back to
the words versus actions.
Speaker 5 (43:49):
Now.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
Just because we live in a more uptight community and
culture now, that doesn't mean that it's okay to say
those words, you know what I mean, I know people
are more sensitive than normally.
Speaker 5 (43:59):
It's not okay to say.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
But we learned from him.
Speaker 5 (44:01):
We move on.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
You pat each other on the back, you say love
your brother won't happen again. I mean, I think that's
just how you're supposed to be in life.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
Yeah, I mean the good part is is the respect.
I mean, if we're disrespecting anybody, we all need to
be re educated. And I totally agree now that everybody has,
you know, been kind of like more thoughtful and more
caring that you know, the word doesn't work. I totally
get that, you know, But being real about it, I
(44:32):
still hear it all the time. You know, I don't
say it. I learned my lesson. I know it's unacceptable
and I don't want to hurt anybody. So I I
had a hard lesson, but I've learned my lesson. But
it's just like New Year's Eve. I was in Miami
New Year's Eve and a buddy and buddy of mine's club.
He he owns the live club. They're in Fountain Blue
and one of the top Afro American actors, one of
(44:54):
the highest paid actors. He's got a wrestler, one of
the Afro American act actors in the business. Came up
to me and he goes, oh my gosh, my sew
and so my sew and so he dropped the word,
Oh my gosh. I grew up. I was five years
old and I've been in love with you. You're my
favorite wrestler, Bang Bang Bang. And I looked at him
(45:15):
and my wife and I Lizard Shawd. We couldn't believe
who it was. It was so crazy. But I forget
some of these actors that are making fifteen twenty million
bucks in the movie that are forty five years old.
They grew up five years old being half of maniacs.
I forget that, you know. Yeah, And so when he
said it caught me so off guard. I said, whoa brother,
I love you too. Man. We can't say that if
(45:36):
you know what.
Speaker 5 (45:38):
It was.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
It was crazy, but you know, in the real world,
they it's still thrown around.
Speaker 5 (45:43):
It is.
Speaker 7 (45:44):
I was watching a thing on HBO just last week
and they had a bunch of NBA players. They were
around doing like a like a table like the shop
shop exactly exactly, and Bro, they were just dropping it.
They were just dropping it. And these the guys that
play in the NBA. And you are exactly right. That's
something that we've talked to bout on the show all
the time. As far as you know it said on
the radio. You know, throughout the day, you can't you know,
(46:07):
hear it enough on the radio without Sometimes they don't
even bleep it out.
Speaker 5 (46:10):
They just let it play through.
Speaker 7 (46:12):
We had an officer here from Galveston on the show
and he was talking about in school, you know, the
black kids said, the Asian kids said, the white kids said,
it's just it's just a word, and and the word
is destructive and that that's that's the the end game,
you know, because you know when you get when you're going,
you know, for an uh, for an interview, you're trying
(46:33):
to get a job, you got to know how to
change the levels. And just like just like myself having
that that interview and it slipped out, it can happen.
Speaker 5 (46:43):
If if it could happen to me, it could happen
to you.
Speaker 8 (46:46):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Well, the thing was your energy. You were excited you
during doing an interview, and you had a cadence, you
had timing, and it just came out it kind of
for that second but a second later, you know, and
I had some crazy energy, but I was mad and
I was pissed off, and there's a million excuses and
it came out. But for me understanding how powerful that
(47:09):
is and how many people it hurt, I'll never say
it again because I don't want to hurt people. I'll
come up with another word. You know, I don't need
that word. If I have love for somebody and I
see my best friend or my brother of the road,
I'm not calling my soul maid or my traveling partner,
and I'll come up with something. But I don't need
to use that word if it's going to hurt people,
(47:29):
and I don't. So I learned that lesson, and it
caught me by surprise, like I said, because you know,
I said in two thousand and six, and then all
of a sudden I heard the recording, you know, many
years later said whoa, where did this come from? But
it was me, and I was holy shit, I can't
believe I was talking like that. It was crazy.
Speaker 5 (47:48):
WHOA. Okay, I tell you, man.
Speaker 7 (47:51):
One of those things, man, it is one of the
things when you're in the heat of passion. We know
about the heat of passion. People murder and they eat
a passion. So words do come out and eat a passion.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
So my thing is this, at the end of the day,
there's nothing good that comes out of it.
Speaker 7 (48:11):
No, no, no, no, no no no. At the end
of the day, something did come out. I'm good come
out of it? I think, no, because I mean, it
is something that people need to you know, talk about.
Speaker 5 (48:22):
It is something people need to be educated on.
Speaker 7 (48:25):
And and our young generation these days, a lot of
times they just think we're just old guys and we're
just talking, you know, out the side of our neck,
and we really don't know what we're talking about. But
you know, people died because of that word, you know.
I mean, we fought wars, you know, because of that word.
And for us bringing it to the forefront and being
able to talk about it, you and I, you and I,
(48:49):
it means something. And you know, I've had people, you know,
say certain things about me on on on social media,
but just because I called you a friend, people don't
want to let things go. But but but people are
going to be people. It's nothing I could do to
change them. But those young kids out there that we
could educate that's listening to us right now talking about
(49:10):
that word, that perhaps will change them and motivate them
to Like my my.
Speaker 5 (49:16):
My nephew. He lives out in California.
Speaker 7 (49:18):
He hangs out with all of his buddies and all
of them, you know, they come up with each other
and they say, Hey, what's up, my ninja, Hey, what's up,
my ninja. They've changed the word. The narrative is still
the same. This is my love, this is my homeboy
right here. But just like you said, I could change
the word and I could use a different word, they
can too. And I hey, hey, hok hey, man, I
just want to thank you and uh for coming inside
(49:40):
the Hall of Fame and and more importantly than that, man,
I'm an hondred to be able to call you a friend.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Well, I'll tell you what you've I've always considered your
friend my brother. And seeing seeing Stevie the other night,
he was like, I said, damn you but good man,
go on. He goes, well, what kind of car you drop?
And I said, oh you guys said you haven't changed
a bit. All you want to do, you know. So
it was so great to see your brother the other night. Man,
(50:08):
And uh, it's just really cool man, you know it's
just uh, I got friends and I'm and I'm honored
to have you as a friend. And I just I
just realized how many people stuck with me through thick
and thin, and brother, that's that's strong. Brother, that's to
have friends that will do that for you, that's that's amazing,
you know, Amen.
Speaker 5 (50:25):
Hey man, I got you back, bro, hey Man.
Speaker 7 (50:27):
Like I say again, Man, I know you got to
get out of here, but uh again, I just want
to thank you for stepping inside the Hall of Fame
and clearing all the air.
Speaker 5 (50:36):
Man, clearing all the air. I love you, brother, my friend.
Speaker 2 (50:40):
All right, all right, thank you guys.
Speaker 5 (50:42):
Bye bye. Mhm m hm
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