Episode 285 - Inspiration from Desperation w/ Eric Bayne

Host of the YouTube game show What's What, Eric Bayne, joins Brad to discuss entertainment inspired from the desperate needs of creators.

Episode Transcript

(00:17):
From Jappetto Studios in New Freedom,Pennsylvania. Welcome to the Cosmic Jeppetto Podcast,
your home for inclusive, positive geekculture where we talk about movies,
comics, music, books, andwhatever else we feel like. Please welcome
your host. You'll get a kickout of this because you're a nerd.
Brad Mendenhall. Hey kids, itis episode two eighty five with the Cosmic

(00:48):
Japetto Podcast. Host of the newYouTube game show What's What. Eric Bane
makes his debut to talk about whendesperation leads to inspiration in an tamer very

(01:11):
excited, a dear friend who I'vejust been looking for the right opportunity to
bring him on, and quite franklyas known, we're coming very close to
the end of this podcast, soI had to get him in and we
had and he came up with agreat idea for a show. So from
the upcoming YouTube game show, What'sWhat? Eric Baine? Eric, how

(01:34):
you doing? I am okay,Brad, I'm better than okay. I'm
so happy to be here. Thankyou for having me on. It's been
very excited. We've we've known eachconn. How long have we known each
other? Now? I guess aboutthree years. Why joined your band three
years ago in the midst of theend of twenty twenty, so yeah,

(01:55):
almost three years to the day,sometime around here, fall fall twenty twenty.
Eric is an excellent drummer, andI've told the story Lincoln bits and
pieces. I am the lead singerand rhythm guitars for the band menden Halt.
That was not my choice. Thename was not my choice. It

(02:19):
was suggested by everyone else. I'veheard of birthplace, son of a Bitch,
and it was a thing where Ialways loved music. And kJ Valentick,
who has been on the show severaltimes, is an excellent guitarist and
a dear friend of Eric's. Andme and kJ started playing music because it
was in the middle of COVID andwe had nothing else to do, nothing

(02:40):
else to do. COVID was covidsack. He's been on multiple times.
Wait a minute, multiple times.I know, I've listened to several of
them. Kjo, I was like, we were having a great time.
It's like, we need a drummer, and He's like, I know a
guy, and and and thus youcame into my life. I'm the guy,

(03:00):
yes, because it's hard to getit. You can you get a
rock and throw it, you'll hita guitarist. Yes, finding a drummer
and or a bassist is a pain. Yes, that is a particular,
particularly difficult challenge. We're exclusive bunch, very lucky and it's always been a

(03:23):
joint. And you are you digthe geek stuff. I do dig the
geek stuff. Yeah, I am. Aside from being a drummer. Hi
Eric Bain professional presenter, host andpublic speaker specializing in nerd positive pop culture
and insurance technology. But that's that'sfor another day. Right now. On

(03:45):
Broadway, there is a show calledThe Shark Is Broken and it was co
written by Ian Sean Ian Shaw,who was the son of Robert Shaw,
who start in the movie Jaws,one of the stars of the movie Jaws.
And it's a play about the makingof Jaws and because that the making

(04:10):
of that movie was a nightmare.Yes, so many things about it.
We're a nightmare. Yes, somany things went wrong and went over a
budget. And one of the bigproblems is they had this very expensive special
effect mechanical shark that did not work. The shark's name was Bruce. The
shark did not work, and itcould that could have destroyed that movie.

(04:35):
No one in the movie was starredRoy Schneider, Richard Dreyfuss, Robert Shaw,
none of whom at that point werea list go see the movie.
None of them were prime Tom Cruise. Well, I would argue that maybe
there wasn't even I mean, I'mnot a part time cinema buff, but

(04:59):
I mean there wasn't really such athing as a blockbuster yet. There were
big movies, but there wasn't likeJaws created the blockbuster. Yeah, especially
the summer blockbuster. Yeah, specifically. Yeah, it was based on a
book that hadn't even been published.Also a book that wasn't very good.
A lot of people have talked abouthow the book was so much different than

(05:19):
the movie, and the characters wereless likable, it wasn't very cinematic,
and like basically in the movie,they they blew up the shark by shooting
an oxygen canister in its mouth.Uh, and this massive explosion with a
great it's like you got you,son of a bitch, and you know,

(05:41):
awesome. And in the book,the Charcter sort of blood to death
and died. Yeah, I mean, but that's that's true. Of of.
I mean, what's better the bookor the movie is A is A
there's a there's a podcast topic atsome point if you haven't done it,
but yeah, I mean you seethat a lot. And then Spielberg obviously
had tremendous success taking sort of Imean, it's not quite science fiction because

(06:05):
it's based on that like one weirdSummer in New Jersey, but it's biology
fiction. I guess I don't knowscience fiction in the same way Drastic Park
is, where the book has alot more science to it, and then
it gets turned into sort of arefined action film, action adventure film by
Spielberg. Who does who is anact for that? Enough of a wave

(06:29):
at reality and science, so it'snot the meg Yes, yeah, well
said, So just be clear sinceyou mentioned sort of like the theme of
our podcast, I'm also going totalk about Shark NATO at some point,
So it just we're three for threeon shark films. As far as things
we're going to get into today.What Steven Spielberg did, and he's a

(06:50):
brilliant director, and he's like,Okay, well we can't use this shark
because it looks like crap. Sowe're gonna show it from the shark's point
of view. We're going to playwith music, We're going to play with
lighting and suspense. So oh andthe Finn and the barrels and the oh

(07:10):
you know it's there but you don'tsee it, which is amazing, and
that wouldn't happen today. Today theywere just like, all right, we'll
just get computer animation and we'll havethe shark, and we'll have the we'll
have the entire like the make wewill show the shark all the time,
and so much can get lost fromthat. Yeah, I agree, and

(07:33):
there I mean, there is placeswhere you have that sort of suspense don't
show the monster sort of trope today, But it's not from a place of
necessity as much as it is awe honor the trope, and that trope
creates suspense, whereas in the caseof Jaws, that trope was in a

(07:53):
lot of ways created out of necessityand then replicated because it worked. And
there's so many great cases of iconicpieces of entertainment that were created out of
that desperation. The one and I'llI'll start one My favorite is and I'm

(08:18):
not a I'm not a big starTrek guy. My mom was a massive
Star Trek fan and frequent contributor.Sean Reynolds, his wife was a big
Star Trek fan and she sort ofpulled him into that. One of the
best known pieces of the being meUp and that was created because it was

(08:41):
too expensive for the original show,which was sort of done on the cheap.
It was too expensive to always showthe starship landing, so they had
to so they did teleportation because itwas a lot cheaper and a lot quicker.
And I can't even that is suchan important part of Star Trek now

(09:03):
right much? I would say,yeah, it's iconic in the way that
the Shark Finn is iconic? Absolutely, right? Do you have? And
I think and there's there's a lotof that you see from TV to One
of the things I did when Istarted to think about this topic in greater
detail in preparation for this conversation,like any good guest should do, I

(09:26):
made a you'll get a kick outof this because you're a nerd. I
made a vend diagram for special effects. I'll send it to you, but
it has sort of I think there'sthere's three pieces to this ven diagram that
like overlap each other. There's intentionallysort of bad special effects, there's unintentionally

(09:48):
bad special effects, and there's whetheror not the budget played into the necessity
of those. And in the caseof Jaws, you have and I say
bad special effects it but bad specialeffects work or sometimes turn out really really
well. And in the case ofJaws, you're limited by your resources because
of your budget and your built oryour technology, but you nail something right.

(10:15):
It was it was intentionally decided wehave to work around this limitation,
and it forces creativity's hand. SoI think Jaws falls into that sort of
like it was a budget slash technologylimitation, intentionally crafted that way, and
therefore it works. What's another exampleyou've done your research? What was another

(11:07):
example of where you've really really thoughtthey were able to find a sweet spot.
Staying on Spielberg for a moment,I'm going to talk about Durrassic Park,
not the computer animated dinosaurs that wereoriginally claymation, but the water glass
when the t Rex stalks and isapproaching is is in a lot of ways,

(11:28):
Spielberg knows how to not show amonster right away and create suspense,
and instead of a fin he hasthis water glass that ripples when the t
Rex stalks and is approaching. Andthe way they did that was they couldn't
get this effect to work. Howdo you get this water glass to ripple?
And what they ultimately did is theyput a e string from a guitar

(11:48):
under the dashboard where the water glasswas, and they plucked the guitar string
to create that water ripple, purelyout of necessity trying to figure out how
to do this. And I forgetwho it was, somebody on the special
effects team. I don't know ifthey were at band practice or they're like
sitting in the sound studio and they'relike, Oh, that's that's it.
That's how we're going to do that. So it's this creativity by necessity,

(12:15):
you know, sort of thing.The Death Star in the original Star Wars.
It's comprised of like hundreds of cannibalizedbattleship sets, you know, they're
just hot glued to this Death Starrun for Luke's X Wing to fly over.
And I think that's awesome. Andthose are I think those are interesting

(12:35):
because they're in some ways low budgetspecial effects in mega blockbusters, which crosses
sort of like one vein of thisthing. But there's another there's another animal
inside of that, which is thingsthat are intentionally supposed to you know,
or intend Like they know they're lowbudget and they're not trying to pull off

(12:58):
something like are Star Wars or DurassicPark. And I go back to Mystery
Science Theater right, Like, thisentire program is made on a budget,
so guys can riff movies that areroyalty free. We're falling out of copyright
and they, you know, inan effort to edit the film, they

(13:22):
put their silhouettes in front of themand then do commentary and it's you know,
thirty forty years pre podcast movie reviewon YouTube. These guys are doing
movie reviews and riffing films in thissort of like ingenious format that I just
think is wonderful. Well in MysteryScience Theater especially, they get by so

(13:46):
far. There's so much charm tothat show. Yes it's a smart show,
but it's it's a show that wouldn'twork if it had great special If
if you every extra ten million dollarsyou give to them to do that show,
you're losing ten points of charm.Like some stuff doesn't work. The

(14:11):
more money you pump into it,the less it works, and you bring
up to a really good examples.You know the Star Wars movies where many
people saw when they redid when theyadded special effects, and boy, I
like that movie so much less withthis state of the art CGI, and

(14:35):
I was like, it feels,it feels light, it feels it feels
like nothing, and it's also jarringand in specialif and CGI. No matter
how great the CGI is, giveit five ten years and improved clarity on

(14:56):
televisions or movie theater screens, italways starts to look aged. Well,
I almost always, I think,using it. But there's a there's a
balance about putting it on full display. And that's something that you know,
Henson Company especially did a really goodjob of when they were doing when they

(15:18):
were you know, when like puppeteeringand sort of practical effects were in full
play, like you don't show thewhole thing, and Jaws was an indicator
of that, and even Drastic Park. Rarely do you get a shot of
the full t Rex. You seemoments or glimpses, or it's a flashlight
through a window that has rain onit, or it's in the rear view
mirror. When they're being chased downthe muddy road. And the reason,

(15:41):
I think part of the reason thoseeffects hold off. I mean, ay,
they're just great, and they threwtons of money at it, and
they made something cutting edge, butthey also mixed cgi with practical effects,
and they knew what to show andwhat not to show, and I think
that's a a lesson in restraint.To your point was Star Wars, right,
like what do we show? Whatdo we not show? And once

(16:03):
you had the ability to do whateveryou wanted, you fail a little bit.
Another another example I like to pointout it doesn't have to do with
special effects, but it just hasto do with the ability to create content
with a certain amount of restriction isarrested development. Like the difference between the
first three seasons and season four.Again, I enjoyed Season four, but

(16:27):
because it's not crunched down to twentytwo minutes, and it's this longer version
of a show, and it's thisgreat creative sort of like idea, or
it fails because it isn't edited downto be the tightest best version of what
it could be. You could makewhatever you wanted at that point. And

(16:48):
granted that's just much like early CGI. That's early streaming. What is bingeable
content supposed to look and feel like. There's a thing in the worlds of
entertainment where sometimes sometimes the worst thingthat can happen to a creative is success.
Take what is a very good example, what was it Michael Semino,

(17:18):
who was an Oscar caliber director.He directed Deer Hunter and he got got
these brilliant performances out of Christopher Walkingand let's de Niro. But and then
he got a blank check. It'slike, okay, make whatever movie.

(17:38):
And then the next thing he didis he made this, He made Heaven's
Gate, which was this bloated fivehour rough cut and you know, three
times the budget, and it completelybonded because all of a sudden he got
he got to make the exact moviehe want to make. And some director,

(18:03):
some actors, some musicians, whateverhave you need the restraint and when
you know, I think it's verytelling that Spielberg, who is no who's
no longer a home run every time. Well, that's that's another That's another
great example. I mean, it'sjust circle back again. I all the

(18:25):
film and I you know, andI'm sure you've probably said this disclaimer like,
I'm not making movies. These guyshave an incredible task to make a
piece of art and coordinate just hundredsof people involved in a production to deliver
something, and there's so many piecesof that that are essential. So you
have to make decisions before things getto edit and before there's reshoots and before
and before and before you know,just Justice League is a version of that.

(18:49):
But but again, yeah, thereis there's a value in that restraint
and understanding when do you stuff andwhat's different. Lord of the Rings trilogy
good example of that. The originalpre Hobbits, which is another problem,
but even those, like the differencebetween Fellowship and Return of the King is

(19:10):
different because CGI evolved so much inthose three years and you could start to
do these sort of like big battleshots that were intimate and closer and practical
and leverage Peter Jackson sort of likehorror practical effect expertise in Fellowship that and
that changes, like you get alot of practical effects in Helm's Deep,

(19:32):
but by the time you get theReturn of the King there's just sort of
like sweeping CGI shenanigans. Well,and you would see all three of those
are just to be clear, Ilike those movies. Oh yeah, yeah,
Well, I think it really showedin the Hobbit films where all of
a sudden, all the all theOrcs and all the Ogres and everything became
CGI creations instead of practical effects,and they all started looking the same and

(20:00):
the detail wasn't there. And there'sa lot more reason for it. I
think Peter Jackson just really wasn't that. Oh yeah, The story behind the
production of the Hobbit films is athat's a whole episode that kJ should be
here for. But I think anotherthing though, that's interesting about Fellowship is

(20:25):
the practical effects that they did throughoutthat trilogy with forced perspective and Gimli and
the Hobbits. You see that leveragejust a few years later in Elf with
Will Farrell, which you know,for many of us is sort of now
like a holiday staple film, butso much of what they learned in Lord

(20:45):
of the Rings they were able togo, like, oh, okay,
forced perspective, we can do alot to make Will Farrell look who's already
huge, but look ridiculously huge atthe North Pole. And it's just there's
a way to do this practically withoutyou know, bad Cgi. They do
some of that in Harry Potter toowith Hagrid. You know, it's just
smart filming, right and like youcan do things just good old fashioned camera

(21:10):
tricks to pull that stuff off.Well, it's always amazing when you see
the actor who played Hagrid in anythingelse as like, and he's not a
he's not a small guy, buthe's just an you know, he's a
normal size guy. He was probablyfive nine. It was several years until
I realized that he was in likemany of the Pierce Brosen and Bond films,

(21:30):
and I was like, oh,oh, he's that guy, you
know, yeah, there's there's there'sa I think I also really enjoy.
And this is a slightly different tangentfrom some of the stuff we're talking about.
But when there are in I don'twant to say intentionally bad special effects,

(21:56):
but like they leverage that it's almosta parody of bad spelstil effects.
Like the things I think about justgood examples of that are like the Lego
movie. Big budget production, tonof work goes into that, but then
you have those moments where like abrick breaks off and just like flies across
the screen. He goes like andlike that's great, Like that's that's just

(22:18):
practical and silly. Or when SpongeBobgoes above water, he's just like a
dish sponge on a stick, right, Like you have the budget, you're
you're SpongeBob right, Like you're doingokay. But like I I find that
to be particularly charming, even ifit is parody in some ways. A
weird thing happened today. I wasputting some laundry away and I went through

(22:45):
I way too mainstreaming services and IMax the Max service has the flash,
and I saw the flash in theaters. I was the one and I was
like, all right, I'll putthis back on again. And deeply flawed
movie. And but you know,Michael Keaton gave, if nothing else,

(23:11):
an interesting performance, because Michael Keaton, he's never bad. He's always interesting,
and he always does something cool.So you get to see Michael Keaton
as Batman seventy one years old.And on one hand, it was kind
of cool because Michael Keaton did twoBatman films and he never really got to
do coold Batman stuff in a lotof ways because the special effects weren't there.

(23:34):
And then not too long before Ihopped on this call. The nineteen
eighty nine Batman film with Michael Keatonand Jack Nicholson was on and dear me,
Michael Keaton could not move in thatmovie. Oh no, no,
no, no, you can't turnyour head in the cow It's a whole
thing. They even make a referenceto that in I think it was Batman

(23:56):
Begins. It might have been Knight, but it's there's a stark Freeman where
Christian Bale and he's like, he'slike, I got some new designs and
he's like, oh, you wantto be able to turn your head like
you would like. They even mentionedit in film that it's a iconic Batman
challenge. I went to the Museumof he was a museum of Visual Arts

(24:26):
in New York to see a exhibitand they had all of the it was
a Tim Burton exhibit. They andall the Batman cowels from the Tim Burton
era, and like he could twellike these are just you know, inch
thick rubber, you know that can'tmove in No, he could not move.
So they turned him into a bitof a horror character. He was.

(24:51):
He was the creature that goes bumpingthe night for the bad guys,
so so much of what he woulddo was like he would put his arms
out so you know, you wouldsee the his cape make bat wings and
he would float up, he wouldfloat down. The bad guy would turn
around and there's Batman to punch him, and it would film it so tight

(25:11):
you could barely see the punch.You were living. You could really only
knew if there was a punch becauseyou could hear the you would hear the
sound effect. Well, I wasgonna say, yeah, I mean,
that's a that's just a truth ofsome legacy action filming too. Now,
obviously, you do what you haveto do when you're restricted by those effects,
but it's once you start getting theselike broader, open sequence, single

(25:34):
take action films. I mean,and you know Jackie Chan's doing it at
the time, but there's not aton of other stuff, at least not
in Western culture. And then youstart to see sort of your your Jason
Bourne single take action sequences where you'relike, oh my god, he just
stabbed the out with a pen.You know, it's just it changes what

(25:55):
you expect, which does make arewatch of some of that legacy action stuff
cover too, Like oh well,okay, you can. It's it's more
telling now just because we've had anotherthirty something years of exposure to that stuff.
Well, it's always weird going backto some of the Sean Connery Bond
stuff. Oh when he slaps,when he slaps the villains, it just

(26:21):
looks like a couple of middle agedguys sort of wrestling. Yeah. I
mean, god, I Austin Powershas a special place in my heart,
and I didn't even recognize until Irewatch a few years ago how much of
a good parody it is, especiallywhen it comes to those like action sequences

(26:42):
where you're like, like, thewhole Judo chop thing is just a wonderful
sort of like, yeah, thisis how I fight, you know,
which is absurd and ridiculous, butis a good poke at those What's funny
is because you have the two extremes, have the Jackie chan prously these incredibly

(27:03):
choreographed, almost ballet like fight sequences, and then you know, on the
other end, you have two middleaged guys, probably not in great sometimes
not in great shape, just sortof wrestling around. And what's funny is
sometimes some movies get it right.The best of the Indiana Jones stuff gets

(27:30):
it right, where Indie just punchespeople, but they have a great sound
effect, and Harrison Ford throws agreat punch. It's like awesome, all
right, perfect, because it wouldn'twork if Indie did a lot of like
spinning heel kicks. I one thingthat always I get a laugh at is
when you have some TV show ormovie where they're having a bar fight in

(27:52):
a hick town and all of asudden, one of the you know,
guys with a mouthful of tall anda mullet, all of a sudden starts
going starts kung fu fighting. Iwas like, why, why, why
would he do that? Well,yeah, but that was a you're you're
you're not wrong, and there's agood it's because he's a stunt guy,

(28:15):
that's why, and that's what he'sbeen trained to do. But there was
I mean, there was an eraof sort of h karate kung fu martial
art mania that sort of permeated Westernculture, especially through the nineties, that
that kind of lays in this.I mean, it's not quite special effects
as much as it is stunt choreography. I think. Okay, here's here's

(28:37):
a couple examples of like budgeted televisionspecial effects that I think are worth talking
about, some that are intentional andsome that are maybe unintentional or not intentional
or unintentional. You're just working withinyour means and the ones. And we
talked about this before Buffy the VampireSlayer, like you can't show the transformation
to vampire with the sort of exaggeratedbrow and teeth every time. But you

(29:02):
show it a couple of times,you make a sound effect, and then
the next time all you have todo is play the sound effect and you
can cut away and you can saveyourself that sort of budget. And the
other thing that came to mind froma maybe maybe not great special effect,
but sort of like Hercules and zenalike nineties television where there's like, okay,

(29:25):
we have Xena doing her fight noise, therefore we know it is fight
time and that was enough. Sothose are just silly budgeted examples. Oh
Buffy was so funny with that becauseit did not have Buffy didn't have a
great budget, m as iconic andbeloved as that show was, And it's

(29:48):
all weird because it's all tied inwith Weeden, I know anything on the
wb Brad. Yeah, they justannounced there doing like a book, an
an audio book, or an audiostory. It's gonna be produced a play
basically a radio play with most ofthe original cast of the show as a

(30:14):
prominent Doctor Who fan speaking of lowbudgets as a prominent Doctor Who fan.
That's great, but I just wantto show I mean, radio shows are
fun. I like, I likeme some old timey radio Buffy was.
They would just run into a lotof problems. You can see sometimes they

(30:36):
just would try a little too much. There was one episode in the first
Dawn season where she was being attackedby a giant cobra snake dude, and
it was bad because they did nothave the budget for that. So they
had like basically they could have onescene where the giant snake guy they could
see gi him breaking into a roomand looking at everyone and then going off,

(30:59):
and then the next scene is likeBuffy just jumping on a rubber suit
and just punching it a lot aslike, well, that's terrible, right,
So here's a fun example of onethat I mean, staying in the
sort of the TV realm of alow budget but it intentionally worked. And
then a same low budget but itunintentionally didn't work is Power Rangers. The

(31:22):
original series. The television show worked. You're doing Godzilla, Monster Kaiju fight
sequences and you're dubbing over Japanese footage. But then when you go to make
the motion picture to capitalize on allof that success with a lot of the

(31:45):
original actors, it doesn't work becausethey didn't craft it and hone it in
the same way. And it's ayou know, you're still having a budget
restriction because you're like, hey,we're making a kids movie, so like
get some white duck tape and tapethe Void Ranger back together. But uh
yeah, it's just that's that's onethat had It has both sides of that

(32:07):
coin where it's like you didn't youdidn't work within the same restrictions you originally
had, Therefore it starts to fallapart. They put together that original show
that was put together with for Nichols. There's been so much talk about how
poorly the cast was paid for thatprogram. And the thing I always loved

(32:29):
was the people aren't familiar the PowerRangers original show. They just would it
was a show, the original Asia. They just took all the footage of
it and then they spliced in theyspliced in American plot lines with American actors.

(32:50):
And the thing I loved was theyellow Power Ranger in the original show
was male, and in the Americanshow was female, and nobody know,
no, no, only the pinkRanger had a mini skirt and none of
that mattered when I was in thirdgrade. So yeah, good time.

(33:12):
But here's the funny thing, becauseI'm a little older than you. I
was in college when Power Rangers wason, and that had a college fandom
because and it was because I workedon a couple levels, because there was
a campiness and a ridiculousness and theaction still sort of worked. Look,
I mean, there's there's no doubtthat there's legit stunt people doing legit action

(33:34):
sequences. And if you're a fanof speaking of budgeted specula special effects,
if you're a fan of the sortof like Godzilla Kaiju movie, like you
would love that show, Like youget a Kaiju fight every week, Like
that was great. Like and Iused to have to like stay up late

(33:58):
at my grandfather's house with a VHStape trying to tape like Godzilla versus MA
throw off TV just so I couldget that moment and that fight didn't even
make sense because one of them haswings and uh and like now now You'm
like, you're telling me I canwatch that after school every day, okay,
Like and I get a little bitof Vultron sprinkled in, Like,

(34:19):
come on, that's great. Peopleare watching a mass master at you mentioned
before shark Nado, Well, sharkNado that is that is the I'm looking

(34:42):
at this Venn diagram I made andI'll send it to you for the thumbnail.
But it is the only thing inthe middle of my Venn diagram.
It's the only thing that's unintentionally bad, intentionally bad and working off a television
budget that sits in the middle asthe sort of it might be the sort
of magnum opus of this conversation.It is so bad and so good and

(35:07):
I think both of those things wereintended to be true. And yes,
they made more and you like tryto capitalize on it's like hokey bad movie
success. But yeah, the firstone is just absurd. It's just so
ridiculous. First off, the castof that movie was so weird because you
had was it John Hurd, Yeah, the dad from the Home Alone films

(35:32):
who was a really good actor,and you had him for some reason.
Ian Zering, who definitely who wasnever a big star, but is a
recognizable person, and he just hadhim there. Tara Reid, who at
one point we thought she was shewas a Hollywood starlet, for sure,

(35:53):
she was things were happening. Yeah, she led movies, several movies,
and they thought she was going tobe someone. So you had all these
people who their careers are at aterrible point, but they still were recognizable.
And the special effects were so bad. The writing was bad, the

(36:13):
pacing wasn't bad, and you canget away with a lot with pacing if
the movie moves, even if itdoesn't make a lick of sense, it
moves. And that's the one thing. The epicenter of all bad movies is
The Room YEP, which is alegit terrible movie. But two things I'll

(36:37):
give the Room. It doesn't lookbad. It's not an isore, and
the pacing isn't bad, so itdoesn't feel like a slog. So just
be clear, your epicenter of badmovies is the Room, not Mano's hands
of Fate. I just want tobe really clear, and I mean ad

(36:58):
luck. I've been the band forthree years, but I don't know if
it's going to last. Well,listen, my epicenter of bad movies.
The movie I think is the alltime terrible movie. kJ knows this.
Brace yourself. I'm ready. It'sback to the future too, because that
movie's garbage. I'm what. Oh, I hate that. I hate it

(37:22):
so bad. I okay. Ihave a speculation as to why would you
like to tell me why or wouldyou like to hear my speculation? First,
I want to hear your speculation.I think you don't like it because
it undoes relevant plot points from thefirst one. Because in the first one,
Marty McFly successfully conquers this scenario inhis in the version of sort of

(37:47):
like two timelines, and he addresseshis issues, and in the second one
it's sort of revealed that there's thisextra time travel loop occurring through the same
sequence of events. So really,Marty McFly in two is undoing and solving
the issues from one in a youdidn't see me here the first time sort

(38:09):
of environment. So my argument istime travel Shenanigan's ruined because it ruins one's
why you don't like too, that'smy guess. Or the or the hoverboard
one of the two. There's acouple of things. First, I was

(38:29):
talking before about how becoming a victimof your own success. Michael J.
Fox, who I think is oneof the best comedy TV actors of all
time, his timing was so goodon Family Ties. There was a great
story where the Michael J. Foxphysically shouldn't be a star because he's he's

(38:52):
very short, he's very slight.While he's certainly a good looking guy,
but he's not leading man good looks. And the story was they didn't want
him. The big wigs didn't wanthim to be on Family Ties, and
then they didn't want him to bethe focus of Family Ties. And the
writer of the show said, listen, I sent him out in front of

(39:15):
an audience with two lasts and hecomes back with five. He was so
good, but he was really avictim of his own success where he was
the star of Family Ties. Andthen he had that amazing success with Back
to the Future, and in twothey said it's like, okay, well

(39:36):
he's a movie star now, andwe're gonna turn this into a little bit
more of an action stuff. Sothere you had Michael J. Fox punching
out guys a foot and a halftaller than him and trying to turn him
into an action stars, like,well, that doesn't work. You were
able to get away with some adventurestuff in the first movie because it was
a little bit of kidding King Arthur'sCourt. Yeah he was. He was.

(39:58):
He was being scrappy and resolving things, not trying to be the sort
of like paragron stand up to thebully hero. Yeah, he wasn't ever
gonna punch out Biff, but heknows what a skateboard is and no one
else does, so he's able toturn a kid's toy into a skateboard.
Well, that doesn't work when he'sin the future and he doesn't know what's

(40:20):
going on. So they turned himinto an action star, which didn't work.
Sort of what you're saying, whereeverything that you know undoing what had
already been done. Also, itreally hurt not having George McFly there.

(40:42):
And what's the actor who played Georgeand gotten involved in a bunch of lawsuits.
Oh, because he's Oh my gosh, it's about to say because he's
weird, but that sounds terrible.Crispin Glover, Yeah, who is weird?
Yeah, and I think he ownsit. So you don't have Christmas
Crispin Glovers weird, crazy, manicenergy. Yeah, but I don't even

(41:05):
feel like he did a ton ofthat in the first one. Like the
first one. I yeah, there'sthere's other things about the first one that
are weird. So you didn't havehim, and he even when he's not
doing anything particularly weird, there's justa weird energy off of him. Yeah
that's fair. So you lost that. The first movie was so good and

(41:25):
so perfect, and the second oneit felt like everything's felt so phoned in.
I give credit. The actor playedbiff Is was excellent. He was
It's like he steals the movie everytime he gets a chance. Absolutely.
I shouldn't like the almost rapist fromthe first movie the most in the second

(41:47):
movie when he also was a murdererand an attempted murderer in the second film.
Oh, I hate that movie sobad. Yeah, that's a fair
point. Thomas Wilson. I thinkit's his name, if memory serves.
Yeah, who's a great stand upcomedian. Oh my gosh it, here's
thats amazing. I always so here'sa thing I don't I'm gonna maybe this

(42:14):
is a generational thing I didn't.I don't like them that much. Back
to the Futures, I appreciate them. I understand why they're important. I
don't think it's Robert Semeckis's magnum opus. I think that's Men in Black,
and I as so. Maybe it'sbecause I watched them as a kid.

(42:37):
I watched them as a kid,and Back to the Future was a very
stressful movie for a child. I'mlike, you're about to be a race
from existence because your mom thinks you'recute. I was like, this is
awful. I hate everything about this. Well, what do you talk about
Robert Semeckis and Men in Black?Oh? I lied, that's Barry Snenfeld.
Okay, okay, all right,we're okay, which I would also

(43:00):
contend is the best, one ofthe best Marvel movies. But that's a
whole nother that's a whole other argument. Yeah, people, people give Blade
a lot of credit for kickstarting theMarvel uh, sort of like, let's
make Marvel properties into successful movies,And I'm like, hold your tongue,
sir, I think it's I thinkMen in Black came two years earlier or

(43:21):
a year earlier. I was Iwas going to add here's here's a few
other things that I think if theseare launch pads for discussion points from sort
of like big budget failures that wereunintentional, some of them not due to
CG. I would also do totime constraint, but like you've got all
the money in the world and becauseof that, you made the Rock into

(43:43):
a scorpion monster. In The MummyToo, or you made the Flash,
which you know that one I thinkwas more studio going like just get back
whatever we can. You know,we already made it. Or Miller's already
in jail, let's just get somemoney back for it, like we already

(44:04):
spent the money. So those arethose are different versions of that, but
both of which are I sourced with. With The Mummy Too and The Rock,
I think I think they just casthim as a lark. I think
the two and like his opening sequencesare super fun. I would also add
there's a great video where visual effectsartists react by the Corridor crew and I

(44:28):
forget the guy's name, but theyhave the guy in who worked on Men
in Black two and Mummy Too,and he talks about that and it's something
like they like eight days to makethe Rock look like a scorporate or something
something like ridiculously short amount of timeto pull that shot off, and they're
like, yep, well that's allthe time we had, so give us
more time and we can make itbetter. But we didn't have time.

(44:50):
I just remember it was me andmy wife and another couple that we've been
friends with forever went to see I'mgonna say it was Bring It On,
because quite frankly, sometimes you justgo to a movie theater and that's what's
playing, and by the way,and Bring it On. Pretty good movie.
I'm aware. The last time Iwas on a podcast about movies,

(45:12):
bring it On also came up,so I've got I've got a theme.
But the trailer before the movie wasThe Mummy Too, and it's like and
of course at the end the deepvoice guys like starring Brandon Frazier, Rachel
Wise and the Rock, and theaudience hooted, yeah, I mean it

(45:37):
to be clear, he's the mostelectrifying man in sports entertainment at the time.
So yeah, it was just socrazy. The audience reacted, and
I'm sure the studios were like,oh golly, he actually might be something
because before the Rock broke through.You had Hulk Hogan doing a bunch of

(46:00):
terrible movies. Suburban Commando, SuburbanCommando, No Holds Barred, Mister Nanny,
just wretched movies, yes, andRowdy Rowdy Piper doing They Live and
nothing else. The only other exceptionto that, which is a highlight in

(46:23):
Wrestler turned Actor is Andre the Giantand Princess Bride. But I think that's
because he was a character actor ina lot of ways in that film,
not the star of the film.Andre was so good in that movie despite
himself. Yeah, you couldn't understanda word he said. It doesn't matter.

(46:45):
It's pretty well known that he wasin terrible physical condition. Yep.
But apparently he's like the most charming, nicest guy you'd ever meet working on
it. But also sort of goesback to the whole point of this podcast,
which I do remember. They couldhave cast Danny DeVito in that role
and use CGI or force perspective tomake that work, but instead you actually

(47:08):
got a guy who was so massivethat's like, yeah, of course he's
the brute squad. Look at him. He's he's he's just a man of
monstrous proportions. Countless good decisions inthat film, just NonStop good decisions.

(47:38):
A couple of the things that Ishould say around this topic that I think
are important. I love intentionally lowbudget television in a lot of ways that
are intentionally made charming. Things likeThe Red Green Show or Peewee's Playhouse,
I think are great examples of ourLike you're fined by a certain amount of

(48:01):
like set or physical apparatus, andlike you can only do so much and
you make it work and it's charmingbecause we know it's low budget and it's
a guy's head in a box orwhatever, and like it. Those things
are great. I think a goodfilm around that is Shaun of the Dead.

(48:22):
You get like you're playing on tropesbut you're making it charming but still
doing enough to make it work,which you know, I mean, you're
dealing with like early Edgar, right, so you get some of his like
novelty and quirk and visual aesthetic layeredin, but still like you're dealing with

(48:44):
like great talent, low budget,which super charming. The whole zombie genre
was based on that. Yeah,but give yourself good, get good characters.
Saves can also like if you knowyou're special effects are, Yeah,
and you cast good characters around it, and you use that wisely. Shaun

(49:07):
of the Dead or Tremor's right goodexample of that, Like amazing cast of
phenomenally well developed characters in the givenamount of time, and then you have
them interact and it's like it's literallyjust like a sandbag being pulled under the
sand for half the film bugs Bunnystyle, and it's just great, just

(49:30):
great in every way. I rememberwhen Tremors came out and it just grabbed
the whole of America's imagination. AndKevin Bacon, his career was, Kevin
Bacon was in the process of goingfrom a list star, possibly a competitor

(49:50):
to Tom Cruise too. Okay,he's a guy that can lead a small
movie or he can be a supportingplayer in a big movie. And Fred
fred Ward, who is always beena favorite of mine, who they thought
he was going to be a toptier action star. He was Reno Williams

(50:14):
and it's like, oh no,he he's got a face that looks like
he's been punched a few too manytimes. So no, he's actually a
good He's either the heavy or therough guy that backs up the pretty boy.
Yeah, Okay, that's fair.So they took all these great guys,

(50:36):
who great men and women, whonone of whom could lead a movie.
But if you put them all togetherand you put a neat concept on
him, you have a bunch ofreally good actors having the time of it.
Just looks like they were having thetime of their life. Oh my
god, like Michael Gross and likeReba mckinhire, just like stealing scenes.

(50:59):
They're very few. I take thatback. There's a half dozen movie posters
in my den, and Tremors isone of them, because I think it's
phenomenal. How many Tremors have therebeen? Now? Seven? Five of
them are numbered. The most recentcame out in twenty twenty, with Michael

(51:19):
Gross returning if I'm Not Staken MistakenOh and John Heater Napoleon Dynamite himself opposite
Michael Gross and Tremors. Seven sevenmovies, one TV show, Yes,
I don't think you're wrong there televisionseries Tremors. The series aired March in

(51:39):
two thousand and three. Holy crap. Second TV show is set to air
in twenty eighteen and had been shotwith Kevin Bacon, but multiple networks,
including sci Fi passed on the seriesHoly Crap, sci Fi's passed on as
Kevin Bacon television show. I don'tknow if that's true. I just read
it on the Internet, but that'sStefan wild sci Fi pass on something with

(52:04):
Kevin Bacon in Tremors. Yeah,Snike in twenty eighteen, when were you
airing Sharknado seven? Ridiculous? Okay, So here's a here's the here's the
last piece I had on my vendiagram or No. Two oh godline.
There's three things here. One youhave a low budget and it's unintentionally bad,

(52:29):
but it works so well it becomesiconic. And that is the Mike
Myers mask and Halloween being a WilliamShatner mask just with the eyeholes cut out
like that shouldn't work. There's noreason that should work, and it's absolutely
amazing. I think this it's probablyshould have come up earlier when we talk

(52:52):
about like using a budget or CGIin lieu of practical effects. It probably
just makes us both sound old.But all I have in my notes is
RoboCop versus the expendables, and sortof like the use of squibs, like
proper squibs versus sort of like someonetaking like photoshop and squiggling red on the

(53:13):
screen. The Expendables was the worstwith that. They just used so many
CGI And I've been to enough comiccons where they have I think this is
gone away a little bit. Butthere was a point where if you went
to a comic con there would beat least two or three tables set up
with some fan made Wolverine versus Punisherthing. Yeah, and they would use

(53:38):
a digital effects to show Wolverine gettingshot, and it looked just as good
or just as bad as the digitalblood squibs in an Expendables movie. I
was like, that looks awful.He didn't need it. Just just just
have the guy shake twice and fallto the ground. You don't need to
show the blood from a from anaudience like us who has been trained by

(54:00):
things like RoboCop and die Hard.Just keep doing what you've trained us to
understand. A gunshot looks like youknow, great, I know I know
what gunshots look like because that's whatsquibs look like in eighties movies. Do
more of that, please than thankyou, and I'll be I'll get it.
Okay, we're training two things.We're trained for squibs or we're trained

(54:22):
for nothing. Yes, neither registers. Yeah, television violence, please and
thank you. Yeah, Like justhave them raise their hand in front of
the camera that has read on itand that's good enough. So if we're
talking about low budget things, Ithink the only other thing that would it
would it would be a crime ifwe didn't mention is the term suited,

(54:45):
which, if you're not familiar,is now become an internet sensation on YouTube
and you can watch suited versions ofthings. But it comes from the two
thousand and eight film Be Kind Rewindwith Most Deep and Jack Black, where
they accidentally race all the movies intheir video store and have to make their

(55:05):
own versions of them at a superlow budget. It is one of my
favorite films because I find it supercharming and wonderful and you know, has
cultural messages and gentrification messages and aboutyou know, sort of big business wiping
out small business and blah blah blahblah blah. And you know there's you
know, I say, blah blahblah blah blah. But there's a lot
of other good themes throughout that film, but there's there's this, uh,

(55:31):
you know, the film I'm speakingof. Have you watched this Okay?
Yeah, just wonderful movie where theyhave to remake Rush Hour two and Ghostbusters
and Lyon King and it's just absolutelygreat. Absolutely well. It was an
insane time where Jack Black was prettyfresh off of High Fidelity, and then

(55:54):
not too long after that was Schoolof Rock and we and we were going
to make Jack Black John Belushi.Yeah, well, and Most f was
coming off of I mean, Ican't believe we haven't seen more of him,
but he had just come out ofthe Italian Job as well around that
same time, which was a superfun remake of a heist film, and
he was great in it. Ohmy gosh, I movie is wonderful.

(56:15):
Yeah. Oh the ones you didn'tmention Shallow Hall and King Kong. Sorry,
that's the other Jack Black stuff that'shappening that matters. Well, well,
you know what happened with Jack Blackand Jack Black and most off,
I think he had a similar thingwhere they just Jack Black didn't want to
do He didn't want to lose fiftypounds and try to compete for standard rom

(56:37):
coms. He did every now andthen, yeah, something out there,
but he always just wanted to seemto do weird stuff, and most deaf
also wanted to do sort of quirkystuff. And also most deff didn't give
up wanting He kept wanting to domusic. Yeah, and Jack Black has
had a wonderful career. Oh andyeah, I mean you didn't mention water

(57:00):
World so oh God or the thirduh never ending story movie that was that
was Jack Black Special. Jack Black'sfilmography has his own Wikipedia page. That's
insane. But you're talking about sweetSweet It. Yeah, it's just the
whole concept of intentionally recreating something withlow budget and I find that at the

(57:27):
end of this whole conversation, Ifind that particularly charming. And there's a
I think one of the best thingsabout YouTube or the Internet, depending how
you want to frame this conversation issort of the the ability for content creators
to do that in sort of aparody way and create. I mean,
granted, the technology is further weall have holm computers and all the other

(57:50):
wonderful things that we have access to, but I just I love that concept
of like scrappy ingenuity of filmmakers usingthis sort of like solving a problem within
their limitations. I think that's awesome. Well, something I'm curious to see
what happens with where we just hada summer where a lot of big budget

(58:10):
movies and franchise established franchise bank willfranchises sort of fell on their face.
Yes, Pixar with the Elementals,which you know, Pixar was used to
be an infallible brand. Yeah,they were the most successful movie studio in
the world until Marvel. Yeah.Indiana Jones The New India Jana Jones,

(58:36):
which from what I understand, wasa good movie. You know it wasn't
you know? It was a solidmovie. Watched it, watched it last
weekend. It is very watchable,and I would argue the third best Indiana
Jones movie squarely in the Middle.Lost a ton of money, lost more
money than you and I can everimagine making and the Fast and Furious film

(59:05):
lost money, which is in fastreal tough because Fast and Furious and The
Mission Impossible both had movies that losta significant amount of money and they both
still have another film Chamber Well,I mean because they were so targeted to
be successful anyway. Actually, YouTuberPatrick Williams does a great video essay on

(59:30):
why he likes Fast and the Furiousso much. And it's not because they're
like absolutely incredible. It's because there'sno source material. He's like, the
movies can do whatever they want.And I think my reinterpretation is miss impossible.
Can really do the same thing.These movies can do whatever they want.
There is no secret War Infinity Gauntletstore, you know, predetermined Skywalker

(59:51):
saga that has to sort of likebe defined from an extended cannon, like
we can literally do whatever we want. And that's awesome because is the budgets
have gotten so big, the specialeffects have gotten so big, somebody's gonna
figure out. And you've seen alittle bit with that Sound of Freedom movie.
Have you heard about this? No? All right, it's uh And

(01:00:19):
there's a whole controversial aspect of thatthat I'm not going to get into,
but it's a sort of it's basicallytaken. Oh I know about this,
yep, I know all about this. Is this the one with Jesus in
it? Yeah? Yeah, jimkof Easel, who my understanding, gave
a wretched performance. But the moviemade a ton of money on a very

(01:00:45):
small budget. Yeah, well sortof Boondocks Saints whatever. But what's interesting
is is that something that other peopleare gonna do, is like take away
all the problematic aspects to the movieand the questions about the basically the movie
being astroturfed in the profitability, butit made two hundred billion dollars on a

(01:01:09):
fourteen million dollar budget. Is somebodygonna turn around like, Okay, we
have abilities if we parb stuff backdown and if we go back to less
you know, not showing everything butimplying, and we can start making reasonable
budgeted movies and with the proper audience, you start, you know, I

(01:01:36):
think there's gonna be some somebody's gonnatake the lessons from that, and we're
gonna start seeing some cool and youknow it'll be with horror movies, or
zombie movies and or rom comes.There's a lot of film genres that are
being sort of underserved right now becauseoh I agree. There's there's a YouTube

(01:01:58):
video I watched a few weeks ago. I think it was it was a
bottom I'm going to confirmed. Yeah, it's film Stack was the YouTube channel,
and the whole video was where didmid budget films Go? And it's
uh, you know that. Iwatched it a few weeks ago, and
I thought that was a good itkind of like ties into what we're discussing.
Everything we've talked about today has beenintentionally low budget and worked or uh

(01:02:23):
due to its restrictions or like youhad all the money in the world and
you and you blew it sort ofthing. No, granted, there's there's
you have a low budget and youdidn't land it, which also happens,
but that kind of gets covered byyou know, those are the movies that
Mystery Science Theater then risks. That'syour star Crash and your atour and your

(01:02:46):
those types of things. So that'sa that's a you know, we know
there's bad movies. That's not thepoint speaking of projects with small budgets.
Yes, let's talk about what's whatSure. Aside from being a presenter and
host in public speaker and believe me, I do a really tight, charming

(01:03:07):
one hour on the history of managedcare if you need your continuing education credits,
I'm also a content creator with mybrother for the YouTube channel one and
only Chameleon All One Word, andthis fall we are premiering a new lineup
of three new shows that will comeout the first, second, and third
Monday of every month starting October two. The sort of flagship of that channel

(01:03:30):
is an exciting game show called What'sWhat, And conveniently, one of those
episodes features your friend and mine,Brad Mendenhall, So we're really excited to
get that out there. It's justfull of nerdy impersonations, interpretations and deliberations,
and we mix up the games everyepisode so it always stays fresh.
If you are a fan of WouldI Lie to You? Or Ask me

(01:03:53):
another or Game Changer, this isa good fifteen minute segment for you.
Will be available on YouTube and we'llprobably get it out where podcasts are available
as well. Had so much funcompeting I don't know if I told you
this, Eric, I mentioned toand listeners. You know, I got

(01:04:14):
kids. I have three young children, Chase, Logan and London. Logan
is especially fond of Eric wait play. He plays drums, so yeah,
you can play drums. Account Theday that I competed, I said,
it's like, oh, the Daddy'sgonna go compete on a game show.
Was like, and of course everythingI say is ridiculous. He's like,

(01:04:38):
you're pretty competing on a game show. It's like, yeah, well,
you know, mister Eric, he'shosting and he started his own game show.
I was like, oh, wow, you're gonna compete. It's like
yeah, it's like how much moneycan you win? It's like, it's
not that show. No, no, no, no no. I I
asked you for your address the otherday because we finally mailed our thank you
gifts. But it's it's not ahow much money can you in kind of

(01:05:00):
game show? It's what would youlike to plug sort of game show,
which, by the way, I'vebeen living on what do you want to
plugged for a long for like eightyears now. That is that is the
truth of content creation, especially youknow now that we have a sort of
multi media environment where anybody and everybodycan create, which is in think is

(01:05:23):
a wonderful, beautiful thing. Butit's also you know, there is no
mono culture. You get you geta taste of success and everyone watches Seinfeld.
Right, that's over a well,one more time, Where can people
check you out your stuff? OnYouTube? The channel is one and only
Chameleon All one word or if youlooked for What's what game show? You'll

(01:05:45):
also find us there starting October two. All right, and Eric is also
the drummer of the band Mendenhall.Which you can check out at Facebook dot
com forward slash Mendenhall period the periodand that's right with my free time,
Yes, with your free time,because we have so much of that.
You know, he's check out mendingthe Hall of the Band. Hey,

(01:06:08):
we just turned down a gig becausethat's how that's how in demand we are.
We're pretty popular. And also somebodyhas always is on vacation, Eric,
This has been awesome. Thank youso much. My pleasure as always,
Brad, happy to be here.That raps episode two eighty five.

(01:06:46):
Big thanks to Eric ban good guyand a good friend. I've waited three
years to have him on the showand he was worth it. Be sure
to check out what's What on YouTubeat Episode one is already out. The
upcoming episode two features your favorite CosmicShapetto host me I mean me. Next

(01:07:11):
time on the Cosmic Shapetto podcast,Jarff Harden returns and we fix the MCU
till then, as Jarff likes tosay, see in the funny pages.

(01:07:35):
Subscribe to the Cosmic Japeto podcast oniTunes, Stitcher, or wherever quality podcasts
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(01:07:57):
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cosmic shapetto at Comcast dot net.Well that's terrible. Can depend