October 1, 2025 • 42 mins
Tansley Stearns had been working in a credit union for maybe five years when a big idea grabbed her: she decided she wanted to be a CEO of a credit union.
For a young woman who had grown up on a farm in southern Michigan that was a very big idea.
Three years ago she made it happen, when she was named CEO at Community Financial Credit Union, a Plymouth MI headquartered institution.
How is she liking the job? Is sitting in the CEO seat what it’s cracked up to be?
‘In this show Stearns faces questions from two hosts, Robert McGarvey and also CU 2.0 CEO Kirk Drake.
You’ll hear what she thinks credit unions will look like a quarter century from now, what she believes the impacts of AI will be on the industry, and also what credit unions need to do more of to stay competitive.
Listen up.
Like what you are hearing? Find out how you can help sponsor this podcast here. Very affordable sponsorship packages are available. Email rjmcgarvey@gmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (00:00):
Welcome to the CU2.0
SPEAKER_00 (00:07):
podcast with big new ideas about credit unions and
conversations about innovativetechnology with credit union and
fintech leaders.
This podcast is brought to youby Quillo, the real-time loan
syndication network for creditunions, and by your host,
long-time credit union andfinancial technology journalist,
Robert McGarvey.
(00:29):
And now, the CU2.0 podcast withRobert McGarvey.
SPEAKER_03 (00:35):
Tansley Stearns had been working in a credit union
for maybe five years when a bigidea grabbed her.
She decided she wanted to becomea CEO of a credit union.
For a young woman who had grownup on a farm in southern
Michigan, that was a very, verybig idea.
Three years ago, she made ithappen.
She was named CEO of CommunityFinancial Credit Union, a
(00:57):
Plymouth, Michigan,headquartered institution.
Now has assets of about$1.5billion.
How is she liking the job?
Is sitting in the CEO seat whatit's cracked up to be?
In this show, Stern facesquestions from two hosts, Robert
McGarvey, that's me, and alsoCU2.0 CEO Kirk Drake.
(01:17):
She holds her own.
You'll hear what she thinksabout credit unions will look
like a quarter century from now,what she believes the impacts of
AI will be on the industry, alsowhat credit unions need to do
more of to stay competitive.
A lot of topics get discussed.
Forward thinking, extremelypositive, but I think extremely
(01:38):
positive could be tends I cameacross Crane said that you're
redefining what leadership andfinance looks like.
What does that mean to you?
SPEAKER_02 (01:57):
From my perspective, there's a few things that are
really important to ourorganization and leading in a
financial cooperative.
One of those is we must tell ourstory.
Credit unions have beennotorious for being very humble
(02:17):
and in some ways reallyundervaluing marketing and
storytelling.
And it makes sense when youthink about our origin stories.
My first credit union servedMacy's employees And we were
headquartered in the basement ofa Macy's store.
(02:57):
And in a noisy world, doing thatcan be challenging.
So I'm a big believer inbringing the creative internal
agency together, not only forthat storytelling.
It also plays a role in howthere is a more innovative and
creative culture that developsbecause of that creative team
being part of the organization.
(03:17):
So that's one thing that I thinkis unique.
The other is that I reallybelieve in a human-first
approach.
While we have financial tools,We really are a movement.
We are about changing people'slives and walking with them
through the joyful and darkmoments that all of us
experience.
And I think when you frame thework around those needs and
(03:41):
start with empathy and marrythat with our subject matter
expertise, you do things a bitdifferently.
very relevant for the nextgeneration and not only
(04:02):
sustains, thrives well into thefuture.
SPEAKER_03 (04:05):
Kirk is joining the show.
SPEAKER_02 (04:09):
Hi, Kirk.
SPEAKER_03 (04:10):
Hello.
How are you doing?
SPEAKER_02 (04:11):
Great.
How are you, friend?
SPEAKER_03 (04:12):
It's like five times in a week.
SPEAKER_02 (04:14):
I know, right?
Let's do one more.
I love it.
SPEAKER_03 (04:18):
Wait, wait, wait, wait.
You guys have talked severaltimes in the past week.
That's
SPEAKER_05 (04:23):
right.
SPEAKER_03 (04:24):
This is sneaky.
You know, you can't do this tome, Kirk.
I mean, I'm going to getparanoid here, man.
Tansley, you decided that youwanted You wanted to be a CEO of
a credit union many years ago.
You've been in the credit unionbusiness 25 years, but perhaps
20 years ago, you decided youwanted to be CEO.
(04:48):
Now, on the other hand, you grewup in a farm family.
How did these things cometogether?
SPEAKER_02 (04:55):
What I loved about credit unions when I stumbled
into them, which is so manypeople's story, you know, I grew
up, as you mentioned, on thisfarm in South Michigan, you
know, right with the great newsabout Michigan, we can tell
folks where we're from.
And it's right at the bottom ofthe Mitten.
And my family's had a farm therefor 120 years.
(05:15):
And my grandmother and my momwere both teachers.
My grandmother helped us start acredit union.
And they're really hardworkinghuman beings.
I Again, I think very humancentric, very curious.
And when I graduated from U ofM, I had no idea what I wanted
to do with my life.
So I was looking for marketingand social work jobs because at
21, life is confusing and foundthis credit union.
(05:40):
And when I started, I justthought, hey, you know, I'll do
this for a little bit.
And very quickly fell in love.
I saw the difference that theorganization was making in
people's lives.
You know, as I mentioned, theyserve Macy's employees.
And so they would be veryfocused on There was a payroll
switch where people were beingpaid weekly, and that moved to
(06:01):
monthly.
The work that the credit uniondid to walk alongside team
members that were going throughthat change, just one small
example of how they showed up.
That credit union was$150million in assets when I was
there.
Their digital banking and theircall center were really
forward-thinking andtechnologically relevant,
(06:22):
especially for 1998, becausethey had this service model
where they were serving peopleacross the Midwest and beyond.
And so I learned a lot there andalso just saw the possibility in
credit unions and very quicklystarted talking about becoming a
CEO.
And my mentor, John Normandeau,who was the CEO of that credit
(06:44):
union, his advice to me was, youknow, there's a big world out
there beyond credit unions.
You should look at it.
And I didn't think that was verygood advice.
So here I am.
UNKNOWN (06:55):
Ha ha ha!
SPEAKER_03 (06:58):
That's good.
Now, you've been at the DaisyAir Rifle Credit Union for three
years now.
I love that it's the Daisy AirRifle.
I love that the logo is a bear,Daisy the bear.
This is insane, but it's lovely.
Is it what you thought it wouldbe?
I mean, what surprised you aboutthis?
(07:19):
It's one thing to look fromoutside the CEO chair, say, wow,
I'd like to have that chair.
So you get the chair, and threeyears later, was it what you
expected?
Is it better?
Is it worth?
SPEAKER_02 (07:32):
It is magnificent in a whole lot of ways.
You know, one thing that I'mreally proud of is that we've
really been able to help theorganization become, I think,
more of what is possible.
When you think about when creditunions started in the Great
Depression, there was a realpromise for who we can be and
(07:55):
how we can show up for people inreally difficult times.
And this is a fantasticorganization.
We'll turn 75 next year.
And we were a little sleepy.
We hadn't invested in technologyin a long time.
The brand had some significantchallenges.
We needed to get our operationsto be a bit stronger.
We were lending without doing alot of deposit gathering.
(08:18):
So we're borrowing to lend andthat works when money's cheap.
It doesn't work in the interestrate environment that happens 90
days after I got here.
And we've done so much as ateam.
And I think most importantly,we've been able to think about
the operational tempo of theorganization.
And I know that I love work.
(08:42):
I have a real passion for whatwe do.
It's a huge part of who I am asa human being, and not everybody
has that perspective.
The tempo of credit unions hasto accelerate.
I think it's one of the thingsthat we have to take seriously
because the world is moving veryquickly.
Just with the issue oftechnology, if you're not
(09:03):
keeping up with it, if you'renot iterating on it, if you're
not partnering with others tounderstand it, I think most
importantly, listening tomembers to match their needs
with what possible tools youmight provide, we won't have a
future.
I often think about these thingsin the context of my daughter,
Mackenzie, who will turn 15 inOctober.
(09:25):
Just think about our frontlineteam members.
We know now, and we're workingon fixing this, we have between
nine and 15 systems that theyhave to touch for a whole host
of things that they help memberswith every day.
And you think about being in awar for talent, If we want to
attract top talent, we want toretain top talent, we want to
(09:47):
grow that talent, I think it'dbe really hard for us to recruit
Mackenzie to come work here.
Not that we would, of course,because she's my kiddo.
And that sort of experience isreally challenging.
And so when you ask about, wasthis what I thought it would be,
I think it has been in a lot ofways.
(10:07):
And I think it's also been morerewarding and more challenging,
as most things are.
And what I'm excited about asyou look back at three years is
what we've been able toaccomplish.
And that gives me a lot ofenthusiasm for what I know we
can continue to bring to lifefor years to come.
SPEAKER_01 (10:28):
Well, it's such a hard problem because let's say
you're super successful and youget it from eight or nine
systems to six.
It's so ridiculous.
SPEAKER_02 (10:35):
It's terrible.
Yeah, it's terrible.
No, yeah.
When our kids have, you know,Mackenzie's been scrolling on
devices since she was one, whichmakes Right.
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (11:08):
Now, a week ago, I was interviewing a credit union
CEO.
His institution has assets ofabout$900 million, and he
repeatedly referred to himselfas a small credit union.
What size are you?
SPEAKER_02 (11:22):
We are$1.5 billion in assets.
SPEAKER_03 (11:24):
Is that small?
Is that big?
I mean, I don't think$900million is a small credit union.
I
SPEAKER_02 (11:31):
don't think a lot about asset size.
I know it's one of our favoritethings to talk about as an
industry, and I know a lot ofcredit unions, including the one
I started at, that do tremendousthings that sometimes large
organizations don't.
And there are some tremendouslarge organizations that are
doing incredible things.
What I believe is that themindset of the organization is
(11:54):
what really matters.
Now, I will say that as abeliever in the financial
cooperative movement, I do thinkthat growth matters, not only
for scale.
I think if you believe in creditunions, then And every new
member we have that uses us moredeeply allows us to do more for
every member who got us here.
And so I'm not somebody whothinks staying small is a
(12:18):
requirement.
And I worry about how much rightnow we're talking about size as
a differentiator versus thethings that unite us and the
things we could be doingcollaboratively to make all of
us better.
SPEAKER_03 (12:31):
That leads to a question I had written down,
which is, is there still acredit union movement?
SPEAKER_02 (12:38):
I believe there is.
And I think we have so much morethat unites us.
And I think we've all got tolean into that.
You know, what are the thingsthat we could be doing together?
You know, we've stood up severalQSOs since I started and we've
(12:59):
thought a lot about, okay, whatare the things that we do well
that we could do more of withother organizations?
I think another real interestingway to think about collaboration
is, you know, what are thethings that we're not so great
at that we could find a partnerwho does really well and how can
we leverage that?
And, you know, you imagine ifevery year you're amplifying one
(13:21):
thing that is one of yoursuperpowers and you are
improving something that issomething causing your
organization pain, that canreally help to accelerate the
impact that you're making formembers.
And I think that collaborationis the way that we stay a
movement.
And collaboration has to be averb.
It has to be something we doversus something we talk about.
(13:44):
It can't just be I calledsomebody up to ask about a
policy.
We're doing a lot around how wethink about AI and challenging
ourselves to be better there.
And I think one of the ways thatwe will do more is to do that
with other credit unions.
SPEAKER_03 (13:58):
What are you doing in AI?
Most of the credit unions that Italk to are doing kind of
experimental things they'replaying.
SPEAKER_02 (14:08):
Yeah, I think that's a fair way to talk about it.
One of the things that's mostimportant to me as a leader is
that I'm using it andchallenging myself to get better
at it.
And we've partnered with Kirk todo that.
And he's spending time with me.
He's spending time with ourexecutive team.
He's spending time with our ITfolks.
(14:28):
And I think that matters becausewith something as...
fast moving as AI and somethingthat I think for many of us sort
of breaks our brains.
You can't just read about it.
I think you have to use it.
And every time I do that, itsparks another idea.
And so I think for ourorganization, that leadership
(14:49):
modeling is really, reallyimportant.
We do think that there are somesolutions in terms of our
frontline team and getting themto answers more quickly.
I think that's another painpoint for the I get there and
ask frontline team members aboutthe challenges, one of the top
things they say is the intranet.
(15:11):
And having a single source oftruth and a fast set of answers
when you've got a member infront of you that's frustrated
and you don't know it.
And I think that's a tablestakes item that we can improve.
SPEAKER_01 (15:22):
We've only been working on that for like 92
years, right?
SPEAKER_02 (15:24):
I know, yeah.
And maybe now we can fix it,right?
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (15:29):
Yeah, I mean, I think the AI stuff, they're
doing some very cool stuff Sothey've got a cool project we're
working on with some othercredit unions.
We're calling it the repgenerator, right?
So how do we remove thebottleneck of generating
Scimitar rep gens using AI?
(15:50):
We've got one that we're talkingaround on core deposit analysis
and growth, one on member growthand understanding that.
And then they've got some reallygreat ones on that knowledge
transfer intranet piece, butthey're definitely...
group is definitely very openand willing to kind of go down
and explore things and I don'tknow that there's any
(16:10):
preconceived notion yet comparedto many other credit unions I
look at where they go okay webought Copilot we're done right
and like usually about three sixmonths later like that didn't
really accomplish much ofanything right like and so I
applaud them for diving in onthat and you know there's a
combination of tackling oldproblems but also tackling new
(16:31):
things that we haven't donebefore where the the table
stakes are lower because youdon't have to be very good at
it.
You just have to be better thanyou were before, which wasn't
good.
SPEAKER_03 (16:38):
Right.
When you took over the creditunion, How many of the people on
the executive team that werethere then are still there?
SPEAKER_02 (16:49):
About half.
I'm really proud of ourexecutive team.
Our chief people officer, KathyMyers, has been with us for over
40 years.
She started in one of ourstudent-run branches.
It's an awesome story of growthin the organization.
She has a great context for whowe've been and also real
(17:14):
visionary ideas about how we cancontinue to grow into who we
wish to be.
And we've got some new folks.
Ashley Bettacletti just joinedus less than 90 days ago.
And what I love is that thediversity on our executive team
is beyond the things that youmight just see.
It is that diversity ofexperience, some having been
(17:34):
here for more than 40 years,some having just started,
experience beyond credit unions.
And having a group of peoplethat bring such different
viewpoint and expectations thatshare values is really powerful
and it's been a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_03 (17:53):
When you go to credit union meetings, how many
CEOs of credit unions that areover a billion dollars are in
your age group and gender?
I don't know.
The gender one is easy toanswer.
That's about 20%.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (18:12):
I don't know about age.
I'm a terrible judge of age.
I led HR, so that's the onlyanswer to that question.
And what I do think is reallyinteresting is...
talent and credit unionleadership is the lid in any
organization.
And specifically when we talkabout credit unions and how we
(18:33):
attract and retain that talentis challenging because there are
some constraints within creditunions that are different than
other organizations.
And there's some great thingsabout that.
And I think to your questionabout talent, one of the things
I'm really proud of aboutcommunity financial is we've
really tried to stretch ourthinking about the future You
(18:55):
know, I, before I came here wasworking at a credit union in
Colorado and attracting talentto move to Colorado is really
easy.
Attracting it to move toMichigan, despite how much I
love it is not so easy.
And so we do hiring from acrossthe country.
We also really think about, youknow, fractional work and the
(19:19):
way that we can bring in peoplelike George Hoffheimer to have a
portion of his time is supervaluable.
And he can continue to serveother credit unions outside of
the state of Michigan.
And he has benefits with us as ateam member.
And that is really exceptional.
And we wouldn't be able to hireGeorge probably as a full-time
(19:41):
team member.
And the gift of the hours we getfrom him is fantastic.
The person that leads events forus, Beth Schnaubel lives in
Wisconsin.
When I got here, I have to tellyou, my way of wanting to work
is to come into the office everyday.
I'm really traditional.
I love being here.
I like to get here early.
(20:01):
I stay late.
I like to be in person.
That's not the way the future ofwork is going to be built.
And I've challenged myself andchallenged a team in every
situation where we've thoughtabout, gosh, well, this person's
not going to want to do things.
in a traditional way, how mightwe think about that differently?
(20:21):
And it's allowed us to reallybuild a team that we wouldn't
have if we weren't ensuring thatwe are more flexible than we
might have been 10 or 20 yearsago.
SPEAKER_03 (20:34):
The website, is that under your leadership?
UNKNOWN (20:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:40):
Yes, we just updated it.
It's probably not even been 60days.
SPEAKER_03 (20:45):
I look at a lot of credit union websites.
Most of them suck, including thecredit union I use.
The website hasn't changed in 15years, I don't think.
It's static.
Whereas I looked at this one, Isaid, man, I've never seen one
like this.
This is kind of cool.
It's weirder than thetraditional credit union one,
(21:08):
but that also is visuallyengaging.
Salaam.
SPEAKER_05 (21:12):
The team's got a great job.
SPEAKER_01 (21:14):
Tansley's part of the CEO club that's in their
30s, right?
So there aren't
SPEAKER_02 (21:19):
a lot of those.
SPEAKER_01 (21:22):
Oh, if only.
Oh, okay.
I didn't know that.
That's why it was a toughquestion for her to answer.
SPEAKER_03 (21:30):
Yeah, there aren't too many CEOs in their 30s.
Not really.
Usually they're at$100 millioncredit unions.
SPEAKER_01 (21:35):
Right.
I will say there was a moment inthe Painted Hills QSO where I
think Matt Stevenson, Mark Zook,and Joe Arnold and I were
sitting around the table and wewere about to go through the
formation piece and we lookedaround the table and all of us
were in our, Zook's old, so he'sin his late 50s or something.
And the rest of us were in ourmid 40s and we're like, wait,
(21:57):
when did we become the grayhair, right?
So it is an interesting dynamicthat occurs where suddenly the
way you led and the things youdid in your 30s and 40s or early
40s begins to change and youstart realizing you're the
institution knowledge, theindustry knowledge.
You've seen cycles of thingsthat no one else has seen.
And that makes you uniquelyvaluable and qualified on how
(22:21):
you think about problems goingforward.
SPEAKER_02 (22:25):
And it makes me broken, right?
You know, I think it's reallyimportant for those of us who
dedicate our lives to creditunions or any industry to be
listening a lot more because asmuch as I value innovation, then
I do challenge myself to improveevery single day.
You know, I have tons of biasesbecause I've worked at a
(22:47):
financial institution my wholecareer and our ability to listen
to members and non-members andunderstand their biggest
problems is one of the mostimportant things we do every
day.
SPEAKER_03 (22:57):
Why do you have a podcast?
SPEAKER_02 (23:01):
A couple of reasons.
One, storytelling.
We think it's really importantto think about different ways
that we elevate the organizationand our leaders across the
organization.
The reason we started DespiteImpossible was when I got here,
I was talking about doingimpossible things.
(23:22):
I'm a big fan of Alice inWonderland, and I've been
talking to my daughter,Mackenzie, about the impossible
things that she does every daysince she was tiny.
And I think it's an importantquestion because it invites you
to think really differently.
And I had a team member say tome one day, you know, Tansley,
you keep talking about doingimpossible things.
(23:43):
And I just want you to know thatmeans that you can't do them.
So you should probably stopsaying.
And I said, thank you.
And I think that my leadershipis the lid.
And if I'm speakinghyperbolically, it's very
purposeful so that we can dreammore boldly.
And And what's been fun aboutDespite Impossible is that we
(24:05):
really invite guests that aredreamers and also doers.
And that's a unique combination.
You find a lot of people thatare really great executors.
There's a smaller group ofpeople that dream.
The combination of the two isreally unique.
And I think sharing that storyhelps people to see things that
(24:29):
they might not have and alsochallenge them to make sure that
the things they dream about,they actually do.
SPEAKER_03 (24:37):
What will credit unions look like in 2050, a
quarter century from now?
And most of the CEOs, if I wouldask them that question, they'd
say, I don't know.
I'll be long retired.
I'll be playing golf.
You're not in that
SPEAKER_04 (24:52):
position.
UNKNOWN (24:53):
I'll play golf.
SPEAKER_03 (24:53):
No, good for you.
Golf to me is, well, I can'timagine playing golf.
But what are credit unions goingto look like in 25 years?
SPEAKER_02 (25:02):
I hope that what the movement looks like is a much
more growth-oriented industry.
I was recently traveling for acredit union conference and when
I landed, hopped in the Uber,chatted with the Uber driver who
(25:23):
asked me what I was doing thereand I said I was had to do a
credit union conference and heasked what and I said a credit
union conference and he saidwhat's a credit union and you
know across the country rightwe've got less than nine percent
of the market share you knowcertainly better in some states
than others some regions andothers and man if you believe in
(25:44):
this movement if you believethat the financial cooperative
movement and model is the bestone for Americans which I do
then we should be much bigger.
And there's a lot we have to doto get there.
One, we got to tell our story.
We can't have people not knowwho we are.
And we can't keep saying thatit's good for us to be a best
(26:10):
kept secret.
You know, I've read some thingsrecently where people are
saying, well, you know, it'sactually better if people don't
really know who we are.
I have to argue against thatvehemently.
It is not better.
We've also got to...
SPEAKER_03 (26:23):
That's totally crazy to say that.
The only people who say that arepeople who know they're failing.
It's better that they don't knowwho we are.
I mean, that's not a businessposition.
SPEAKER_02 (26:34):
Yeah, except there is some Something about, I
think, our history and this ideaof humility that I think for
some people creates a frameworkto believe that that's true.
And I just think we have tochallenge it.
And the other thing I would sayis, you know, we stood up a QSO
called Backbone, which is reallyabout the storytelling.
(26:55):
We've now got 24 organizationsthat are standing together in
this.
And, you know, some people, whenI talk to them about Backbone,
will say, well, you know,Tansley, isn't that America's
Credit Union's job?
Isn't that the league andassociation?
It's really not our job to cometogether to tell the story of
credit unions.
And I think it is.
I think it's our job.
It's my job at CommunityFinancial.
(27:15):
It's our job collectively andcollaboratively from a
grassroots effort.
It is America's credit unionsjob.
It's the league and associationsjob.
And two things can be true atonce.
And in fact, it's better if theassociations and the leagues are
telling our story and we aretelling our story.
And if reporters talk to both ofthose organizations, awesome.
That is awesome.
(27:35):
Great, because I'll tell you,the ABA is telling our story and
it's not the story we wantAmericans to hear.
So I think storytelling is a bigpart of it.
I also think it is aboutrelevance, you know, and that is
not just technology.
I think it's experience.
I think it's product line.
I think it's a commitment tostrategy.
(27:58):
You know, strategy can't besomething that we do in August
or September and then create a500 page binder that nobody
read.
and say that we did it so we canshow it to the examiners.
SPEAKER_01 (28:09):
Strategy is just buying different tech systems
that immediately solve theproblem.
SPEAKER_05 (28:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:16):
It feels like that in a lot of credit unions,
right?
Like, oh, we've set our budgetstrategy.
So we're buying these four newsoftware packages that we will
never implement more than 20%of, right?
SPEAKER_05 (28:24):
And
SPEAKER_01 (28:26):
we'll never optimize it.
By the time we're doneimplementing, we're so
exhausted.
We never want to think aboutthat problem again, but we check
the box.
SPEAKER_02 (28:32):
Well, and what I love about our board, you know,
they, created our ends, which isjust their way of talking about
vision.
And it's bold, it's inspiring,and it is thinking about impact
in a much bolder way.
And it's thrilling to thinkabout strategy in that way.
And then these horizons, right?
(28:53):
You've got this horizon rightnow for us.
We're landing the plane on athree-year strategy.
We've got to execute that.
We've got goals to meet in 2025.
And we've got to be thinkingabout, okay, as we lift off into
2026, Over the next 10 years,what are some of the things that
we really want to reach to?
And then what does that looklike?
And I think that ability tothink with horizons in mind is a
(29:18):
critical part of howorganizations can both think.
think boldly enough and get toexecution.
Both things are true.
SPEAKER_01 (29:27):
Yeah.
One of the things I love abouthow you did the strategy too, is
that, you know, it kind ofstarts with this kind of, it
needs to fit on a napkin, right?
And then as you expand thenapkin, it gets into much more
depth, but both visually andcommunication style wise, I
think people often, I mean, alot of times when I look at a
credit union strategy orcertainly the credit unions that
(29:48):
I worked at, the strategy was,you know, a three worksheet
spreadsheet with 8,000 projectitems that you're going to check
the box, which is not inspiringat all.
It's mostly overwhelming.
It's hard to actually execute onand doesn't get to that broader
vision purpose.
And, you know, it certainlydoesn't...
Great, we checked off 82% ofthat.
Do we feel good that we...
(30:10):
Did it actually do anything?
I don't know, right?
Versus, you know, the feeling atCFCU and when you talk to people
and the energy and the thingsthat you guys are trying, it may
not be tactically as linear,right?
But it definitely feels likeit's changing something and
there's momentum and otherthings in there.
And to me, that's much harder toaccomplish at running an
(30:34):
organization.
SPEAKER_02 (30:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that seems so silly andsmall, right?
And again, it's one of thosethings that people roll their
eyes at me about.
And I think it's so powerful.
If you were to talk to anybodyhere, including frontline folks,
they understand what our purposeis They understand what we're up
to.
From that napkin strategy, everysix to eight weeks, we do
(30:58):
something called purpose andpace, which is, okay, what are
we all going to accomplish?
Not just the IT team.
What's everybody going toaccomplish in the next six to
eight weeks?
How does that connect back?
Being able to connect the dotsfor everybody across the
organization about strategy, Ithink, is the key to that
momentum.
SPEAKER_01 (31:18):
It's one of those goofy things.
I must talk to four or fivehundred credit unions a year,
right?
I can think of two that I have apretty good idea of their
strategy.
Like you guys are one, Rogue'sprobably the other.
Rogue, it's because I'mpersonally invested locally and
all my accounts are there.
Otherwise, even though I knowcredit unions inside and out, I
don't really know very manyother strategies, right?
(31:41):
So it has to me, even seeingthat, I think I had that napkin
strategy in my backpack forprobably three months.
So it just like keeps coming outand I'd read it.
There's power to that.
SPEAKER_02 (31:58):
I love being able to carry it.
It's just great.
SPEAKER_03 (32:02):
I've talked with a lot of credit union CEOs, Kirk,
and they don't have a strategy.
They have a to-do list.
They have some goals that werehanded down by the board and
that's it.
They say, that's my strategy.
I say, man, it's not a strategy.
That's a to-do list.
So, Tensley, if I fly toMichigan today and I go into a
(32:23):
branch of yours, and I talk tothree tellers and I say, what's
the purpose of this creditunion?
What are they going to tell me?
SPEAKER_02 (32:31):
To create joy and ignite Michiganders' impossible
dreams.
SPEAKER_03 (32:37):
You're absolutely sure of that?
SPEAKER_02 (32:39):
I am a thousand percent sure of it.
SPEAKER_03 (32:41):
Oh, man.
Hey, Kirk, I need some money tofly
SPEAKER_02 (32:44):
to
SPEAKER_05 (32:48):
Michigan.
SPEAKER_03 (32:48):
I got to test this.
Do
SPEAKER_05 (32:51):
it.
Do it.
SPEAKER_03 (32:54):
I mean, I'm a journalist.
I believe in shoe leather, youknow, like knock on the door.
SPEAKER_02 (32:57):
It's great.
We just opened our new locationin Detroit.
You would love it.
So come see us.
I
SPEAKER_03 (33:05):
talked with an economist the other day that
said that the real issue forcredit units today is they need
to become more operationallyefficient because of the lending
environment, number one, andalso the decline of non-interest
income, NSF income, stuff likethat, interchange.
(33:25):
It's all going downhill.
So therefore, he said it'sreally imperative to become more
operationally efficient.
What are you doing in that way?
SPEAKER_02 (33:36):
We're doing a lot because we were very
inefficient.
In fact, I was one of the worstin the country for our asset
size when I got here.
We very much leaned into humanpotential to solve problems and
did not invest as much in ourtechnology.
So we've done a lot to makeimprovements.
We've got more work to do.
(33:58):
And what I would say to you iswe're never going to be an OPEX
shop.
When you think about the waysthat you can drive success in an
organization, we're never goingto be the place that's cutting
everything and pouring waterinto our whiteout.
I know I'm aging myself withthat analogy.
SPEAKER_01 (34:16):
What's whiteout?
SPEAKER_02 (34:17):
Exactly.
What I believe to be true is youdo have to become more
efficient.
We've got work to do there.
And we've got to drive revenue.
And both of those things have tobe true.
And we've got to be thinkingcreatively about the ways that
we drive revenue.
The CUSO model is a brilliantone for credit unions.
It's not something we lean intoAnd the potential there, I
(34:40):
think, is great.
And it is fuel for the future ofthe organization.
So both of those things arefocuses for us.
And we're just never going to bethe place that's going to have
the lowest OPEX ratios.
We're just not.
It's not who we are.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (34:59):
Well, his point was actually interesting due to
various factors.
Many credit unions actually canmake loans, et cetera, at less
cost than a Chase.
In other words, less cost thanthe biggest banks.
And these credit unions, the bigones, say, Nick, you're federal.
He didn't name anybody by name.
(35:20):
They can always beat Chase onrate if they choose to because
they're more operationallyefficient and they don't pay
income tax.
SPEAKER_01 (35:29):
You know, so I ran a study on this where I went back
and looked over time at thenumber of members served per
employee.
And I thought, surely with allthe technology that we've
implemented over the last 25years, this must have shifted.
And it is identical to where itwas 25 years ago.
SPEAKER_03 (35:48):
That's because credit unions don't downsize.
Every time I've talked to acredit union, they say I'm
implementing AIs.
I say, how many employees willbe cut?
They say none.
I say, this doesn't make anysense.
Well,
SPEAKER_01 (36:06):
but I think some of it is, you know, if you look at
the work that was done on ateller line 25 years ago is very
different than the work on theteller line today.
We're not cashing payrollchecks.
We're not.
I mean, there's some of that,but by and large, it's a very
different chunk of work.
And we are serving more assetsand more loans per employee, but
the actual number of membershasn't shifted.
(36:26):
I didn't get as far as to kindof look at what's the actual
number of members.
average median income of anAmerican over that time period,
and does it actually correlate,and have we actually
accomplished anything?
But I also think most of thetime when we're focused on
operating efficiency, we're justcomparing another credit union's
OPEX to ours, which you can fixby growing the numerator, right?
(36:51):
I'm failing the math today.
I don't remember which one.
The numerator and denominator.
I don't remember which one's onthe bottom.
So you can grow it by shiftingthat ratio by growing assets or
loan dollar amounts withoutactually shifting any material
expense.
It looks like you're moreefficient, but I'm not sure you
actually are.
I think a huge part of it is thepeer-to-peer benchmarking has us
(37:15):
focused on operatingefficiencies that are not
actually the right things to befocused on.
SPEAKER_03 (37:21):
That's an interesting possibility.
So, Tazlee, are you looking todo a merger?
Every credit union is looking todo a merger.
SPEAKER_02 (37:33):
You know, we will certainly always explore
possibilities.
We are really open and curious.
And it's not a leading strategyfor us.
In every one of my last journeysat a credit union, a merger was
my last project, interestingly.
They are...
(37:54):
really heavy lifts they'redistracting for the organization
doesn't matter the asset size infact several of those were very
very very small mergers and theytake the same amount of time
energy and effort unless you youknow you really sort of do the
divide and conquer and you'vegot a part of the organization
that's that's completely focusedon that and so you know the
(38:17):
other thing i would say ismergers and credit unions are
marriages they're notacquisitions and And they can
fall apart for very sillyreasons and are not about the
business always and certainlynot always about what's best for
the member.
Again, this is one of thosetopics, though, where I worry
(38:38):
that we as an industry getreally divided.
Like, I'm pro-merger.
I'm anti-merger.
I'm neither of those things.
What I'm responsible for as theleader of the organization is
what's best for our members.
How do I bring the most value toMichiganders?
How do I ensure that we areready for the next 75 years.
And if a merger is part of that,then we'll look at it.
(39:01):
And I just think there's anawful lot of other things we can
do strategically that are reallyimportant that can create impact
for us.
And so it's not something we'rechasing.
SPEAKER_01 (39:11):
There are a couple of credit unions out there who
basically live off of mergers,right?
And they do one every sixmonths.
And they get really good.
That is a strategy where they'rebuilding skills and techniques
and approaches to be good at itand they know who to target, who
not to target, how to structurethe deals, you know, all that
kind of stuff.
Yeah.
(39:31):
The opportunistic merger, Ithink the challenge with it is,
let's say you actually have astrategy, most likely you're
going to put that strategy onhold for some period of time to
complete this financialtransaction that then, frankly,
further takes you away fromdoing the hard things that make
that strategy pay off over time.
SPEAKER_03 (39:49):
Yeah.
I also point to maybe federal,which is the biggest...
monster in the Savannah.
And I don't think they've done ameaningful merger ever,
certainly not in the last 10years.
Some of their competitors havedone a merger every 30 seconds,
and they have not grown at thesame rate.
SPEAKER_01 (40:10):
If you took the focus and clarity that comes out
of a merger, and you apply thatsame amount of energy to a
single metric, member growth,operating efficiency, whatever
it is, the long-termsustainability impact on that
credit union from figuring outthat mouse trap would be so much
more impactful than anyindividual merger that you did.
SPEAKER_03 (40:34):
Yeah, I'm not anti-merger at all.
It's just, when I look at it, Isee so, I'm just so impressed by
Navy Federal's growth year in,year out.
And they're not, have they donea mercy merger here or there?
Probably.
But that's inconsequential totheir balance sheet.
(40:56):
They're doing it, man.
And they're doing it withoutbuying anything that's loose on
the table.
All
SPEAKER_01 (41:02):
I know is we did three acquisitions at Ogo and my
conclusion after that was theymostly cause pollution and
distraction and put us in ascenario where we needed to do
another one to hit the nextstrategic goal.
Instead of actually focusing onthe really hard problem that
(41:26):
would create long-termdifferentiation in a complex
marketplace that would win usthe business over time, you
know, we would try to pick up aproduct or a service or
something that we thought wasstrategically aligned and
inevitably, I mean, one of thethree I think was really good.
One was okay and one was quiteterrible at the end of the day
(41:47):
in terms of the distraction andthe culture challenges and the
people piece of it that even ifthe product was amazing, the end
philosophy wasn't actuallyhelpful in achieving our longer
term goals and differentiating,right?
UNKNOWN (42:04):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_03 (42:04):
What's your field of membership, Tansley?
SPEAKER_02 (42:07):
The state of Michigan.
If you live, work, or worship inthe state of Michigan, you can
join the credit
SPEAKER_01 (42:13):
union.
Can you worship virtually?
SPEAKER_02 (42:15):
That's a good
SPEAKER_03 (42:20):
question.
SPEAKER_05 (42:20):
That's true.
A
SPEAKER_03 (42:21):
lot of Catholic masses are online.
SPEAKER_01 (42:25):
That's what I'm asking.
SPEAKER_03 (42:26):
You could become a member of a church in Detroit.
What can I say?
SPEAKER_02 (42:31):
I'm definitely going to have to check with our legal
team before we say yes to I
SPEAKER_01 (42:37):
can see the membership process.
Now you're doing CFCU.
Hold on a second.
You got to join the zoom callwith the Pope.
SPEAKER_03 (42:48):
The CU 2.0 podcast.
Welcome to the CU2.0
SPEAKER_00 (00:07):
podcast with big new ideas about credit unions and
conversations about innovativetechnology with credit union and
fintech leaders.
This podcast is brought to youby Quillo, the real-time loan
syndication network for creditunions, and by your host,
long-time credit union andfinancial technology journalist,
Robert McGarvey.
(00:29):
And now, the CU2.0 podcast withRobert McGarvey.
SPEAKER_03 (00:35):
Tansley Stearns had been working in a credit union
for maybe five years when a bigidea grabbed her.
She decided she wanted to becomea CEO of a credit union.
For a young woman who had grownup on a farm in southern
Michigan, that was a very, verybig idea.
Three years ago, she made ithappen.
She was named CEO of CommunityFinancial Credit Union, a
(00:57):
Plymouth, Michigan,headquartered institution.
Now has assets of about$1.5billion.
How is she liking the job?
Is sitting in the CEO seat whatit's cracked up to be?
In this show, Stern facesquestions from two hosts, Robert
McGarvey, that's me, and alsoCU2.0 CEO Kirk Drake.
(01:17):
She holds her own.
You'll hear what she thinksabout credit unions will look
like a quarter century from now,what she believes the impacts of
AI will be on the industry, alsowhat credit unions need to do
more of to stay competitive.
A lot of topics get discussed.
Forward thinking, extremelypositive, but I think extremely
(01:38):
positive could be tends I cameacross Crane said that you're
redefining what leadership andfinance looks like.
What does that mean to you?
SPEAKER_02 (01:57):
From my perspective, there's a few things that are
really important to ourorganization and leading in a
financial cooperative.
One of those is we must tell ourstory.
Credit unions have beennotorious for being very humble
(02:17):
and in some ways reallyundervaluing marketing and
storytelling.
And it makes sense when youthink about our origin stories.
My first credit union servedMacy's employees And we were
headquartered in the basement ofa Macy's store.
(02:57):
And in a noisy world, doing thatcan be challenging.
So I'm a big believer inbringing the creative internal
agency together, not only forthat storytelling.
It also plays a role in howthere is a more innovative and
creative culture that developsbecause of that creative team
being part of the organization.
(03:17):
So that's one thing that I thinkis unique.
The other is that I reallybelieve in a human-first
approach.
While we have financial tools,We really are a movement.
We are about changing people'slives and walking with them
through the joyful and darkmoments that all of us
experience.
And I think when you frame thework around those needs and
(03:41):
start with empathy and marrythat with our subject matter
expertise, you do things a bitdifferently.
very relevant for the nextgeneration and not only
(04:02):
sustains, thrives well into thefuture.
SPEAKER_03 (04:05):
Kirk is joining the show.
SPEAKER_02 (04:09):
Hi, Kirk.
SPEAKER_03 (04:10):
Hello.
How are you doing?
SPEAKER_02 (04:11):
Great.
How are you, friend?
SPEAKER_03 (04:12):
It's like five times in a week.
SPEAKER_02 (04:14):
I know, right?
Let's do one more.
I love it.
SPEAKER_03 (04:18):
Wait, wait, wait, wait.
You guys have talked severaltimes in the past week.
That's
SPEAKER_05 (04:23):
right.
SPEAKER_03 (04:24):
This is sneaky.
You know, you can't do this tome, Kirk.
I mean, I'm going to getparanoid here, man.
Tansley, you decided that youwanted You wanted to be a CEO of
a credit union many years ago.
You've been in the credit unionbusiness 25 years, but perhaps
20 years ago, you decided youwanted to be CEO.
(04:48):
Now, on the other hand, you grewup in a farm family.
How did these things cometogether?
SPEAKER_02 (04:55):
What I loved about credit unions when I stumbled
into them, which is so manypeople's story, you know, I grew
up, as you mentioned, on thisfarm in South Michigan, you
know, right with the great newsabout Michigan, we can tell
folks where we're from.
And it's right at the bottom ofthe Mitten.
And my family's had a farm therefor 120 years.
(05:15):
And my grandmother and my momwere both teachers.
My grandmother helped us start acredit union.
And they're really hardworkinghuman beings.
I Again, I think very humancentric, very curious.
And when I graduated from U ofM, I had no idea what I wanted
to do with my life.
So I was looking for marketingand social work jobs because at
21, life is confusing and foundthis credit union.
(05:40):
And when I started, I justthought, hey, you know, I'll do
this for a little bit.
And very quickly fell in love.
I saw the difference that theorganization was making in
people's lives.
You know, as I mentioned, theyserve Macy's employees.
And so they would be veryfocused on There was a payroll
switch where people were beingpaid weekly, and that moved to
(06:01):
monthly.
The work that the credit uniondid to walk alongside team
members that were going throughthat change, just one small
example of how they showed up.
That credit union was$150million in assets when I was
there.
Their digital banking and theircall center were really
forward-thinking andtechnologically relevant,
(06:22):
especially for 1998, becausethey had this service model
where they were serving peopleacross the Midwest and beyond.
And so I learned a lot there andalso just saw the possibility in
credit unions and very quicklystarted talking about becoming a
CEO.
And my mentor, John Normandeau,who was the CEO of that credit
(06:44):
union, his advice to me was, youknow, there's a big world out
there beyond credit unions.
You should look at it.
And I didn't think that was verygood advice.
So here I am.
UNKNOWN (06:55):
Ha ha ha!
SPEAKER_03 (06:58):
That's good.
Now, you've been at the DaisyAir Rifle Credit Union for three
years now.
I love that it's the Daisy AirRifle.
I love that the logo is a bear,Daisy the bear.
This is insane, but it's lovely.
Is it what you thought it wouldbe?
I mean, what surprised you aboutthis?
(07:19):
It's one thing to look fromoutside the CEO chair, say, wow,
I'd like to have that chair.
So you get the chair, and threeyears later, was it what you
expected?
Is it better?
Is it worth?
SPEAKER_02 (07:32):
It is magnificent in a whole lot of ways.
You know, one thing that I'mreally proud of is that we've
really been able to help theorganization become, I think,
more of what is possible.
When you think about when creditunions started in the Great
Depression, there was a realpromise for who we can be and
(07:55):
how we can show up for people inreally difficult times.
And this is a fantasticorganization.
We'll turn 75 next year.
And we were a little sleepy.
We hadn't invested in technologyin a long time.
The brand had some significantchallenges.
We needed to get our operationsto be a bit stronger.
We were lending without doing alot of deposit gathering.
(08:18):
So we're borrowing to lend andthat works when money's cheap.
It doesn't work in the interestrate environment that happens 90
days after I got here.
And we've done so much as ateam.
And I think most importantly,we've been able to think about
the operational tempo of theorganization.
And I know that I love work.
(08:42):
I have a real passion for whatwe do.
It's a huge part of who I am asa human being, and not everybody
has that perspective.
The tempo of credit unions hasto accelerate.
I think it's one of the thingsthat we have to take seriously
because the world is moving veryquickly.
Just with the issue oftechnology, if you're not
(09:03):
keeping up with it, if you'renot iterating on it, if you're
not partnering with others tounderstand it, I think most
importantly, listening tomembers to match their needs
with what possible tools youmight provide, we won't have a
future.
I often think about these thingsin the context of my daughter,
Mackenzie, who will turn 15 inOctober.
(09:25):
Just think about our frontlineteam members.
We know now, and we're workingon fixing this, we have between
nine and 15 systems that theyhave to touch for a whole host
of things that they help memberswith every day.
And you think about being in awar for talent, If we want to
attract top talent, we want toretain top talent, we want to
(09:47):
grow that talent, I think it'dbe really hard for us to recruit
Mackenzie to come work here.
Not that we would, of course,because she's my kiddo.
And that sort of experience isreally challenging.
And so when you ask about, wasthis what I thought it would be,
I think it has been in a lot ofways.
(10:07):
And I think it's also been morerewarding and more challenging,
as most things are.
And what I'm excited about asyou look back at three years is
what we've been able toaccomplish.
And that gives me a lot ofenthusiasm for what I know we
can continue to bring to lifefor years to come.
SPEAKER_01 (10:28):
Well, it's such a hard problem because let's say
you're super successful and youget it from eight or nine
systems to six.
It's so ridiculous.
SPEAKER_02 (10:35):
It's terrible.
Yeah, it's terrible.
No, yeah.
When our kids have, you know,Mackenzie's been scrolling on
devices since she was one, whichmakes Right.
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (11:08):
Now, a week ago, I was interviewing a credit union
CEO.
His institution has assets ofabout$900 million, and he
repeatedly referred to himselfas a small credit union.
What size are you?
SPEAKER_02 (11:22):
We are$1.5 billion in assets.
SPEAKER_03 (11:24):
Is that small?
Is that big?
I mean, I don't think$900million is a small credit union.
I
SPEAKER_02 (11:31):
don't think a lot about asset size.
I know it's one of our favoritethings to talk about as an
industry, and I know a lot ofcredit unions, including the one
I started at, that do tremendousthings that sometimes large
organizations don't.
And there are some tremendouslarge organizations that are
doing incredible things.
What I believe is that themindset of the organization is
(11:54):
what really matters.
Now, I will say that as abeliever in the financial
cooperative movement, I do thinkthat growth matters, not only
for scale.
I think if you believe in creditunions, then And every new
member we have that uses us moredeeply allows us to do more for
every member who got us here.
And so I'm not somebody whothinks staying small is a
(12:18):
requirement.
And I worry about how much rightnow we're talking about size as
a differentiator versus thethings that unite us and the
things we could be doingcollaboratively to make all of
us better.
SPEAKER_03 (12:31):
That leads to a question I had written down,
which is, is there still acredit union movement?
SPEAKER_02 (12:38):
I believe there is.
And I think we have so much morethat unites us.
And I think we've all got tolean into that.
You know, what are the thingsthat we could be doing together?
You know, we've stood up severalQSOs since I started and we've
(12:59):
thought a lot about, okay, whatare the things that we do well
that we could do more of withother organizations?
I think another real interestingway to think about collaboration
is, you know, what are thethings that we're not so great
at that we could find a partnerwho does really well and how can
we leverage that?
And, you know, you imagine ifevery year you're amplifying one
(13:21):
thing that is one of yoursuperpowers and you are
improving something that issomething causing your
organization pain, that canreally help to accelerate the
impact that you're making formembers.
And I think that collaborationis the way that we stay a
movement.
And collaboration has to be averb.
It has to be something we doversus something we talk about.
(13:44):
It can't just be I calledsomebody up to ask about a
policy.
We're doing a lot around how wethink about AI and challenging
ourselves to be better there.
And I think one of the ways thatwe will do more is to do that
with other credit unions.
SPEAKER_03 (13:58):
What are you doing in AI?
Most of the credit unions that Italk to are doing kind of
experimental things they'replaying.
SPEAKER_02 (14:08):
Yeah, I think that's a fair way to talk about it.
One of the things that's mostimportant to me as a leader is
that I'm using it andchallenging myself to get better
at it.
And we've partnered with Kirk todo that.
And he's spending time with me.
He's spending time with ourexecutive team.
He's spending time with our ITfolks.
(14:28):
And I think that matters becausewith something as...
fast moving as AI and somethingthat I think for many of us sort
of breaks our brains.
You can't just read about it.
I think you have to use it.
And every time I do that, itsparks another idea.
And so I think for ourorganization, that leadership
(14:49):
modeling is really, reallyimportant.
We do think that there are somesolutions in terms of our
frontline team and getting themto answers more quickly.
I think that's another painpoint for the I get there and
ask frontline team members aboutthe challenges, one of the top
things they say is the intranet.
(15:11):
And having a single source oftruth and a fast set of answers
when you've got a member infront of you that's frustrated
and you don't know it.
And I think that's a tablestakes item that we can improve.
SPEAKER_01 (15:22):
We've only been working on that for like 92
years, right?
SPEAKER_02 (15:24):
I know, yeah.
And maybe now we can fix it,right?
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (15:29):
Yeah, I mean, I think the AI stuff, they're
doing some very cool stuff Sothey've got a cool project we're
working on with some othercredit unions.
We're calling it the repgenerator, right?
So how do we remove thebottleneck of generating
Scimitar rep gens using AI?
(15:50):
We've got one that we're talkingaround on core deposit analysis
and growth, one on member growthand understanding that.
And then they've got some reallygreat ones on that knowledge
transfer intranet piece, butthey're definitely...
group is definitely very openand willing to kind of go down
and explore things and I don'tknow that there's any
(16:10):
preconceived notion yet comparedto many other credit unions I
look at where they go okay webought Copilot we're done right
and like usually about three sixmonths later like that didn't
really accomplish much ofanything right like and so I
applaud them for diving in onthat and you know there's a
combination of tackling oldproblems but also tackling new
(16:31):
things that we haven't donebefore where the the table
stakes are lower because youdon't have to be very good at
it.
You just have to be better thanyou were before, which wasn't
good.
SPEAKER_03 (16:38):
Right.
When you took over the creditunion, How many of the people on
the executive team that werethere then are still there?
SPEAKER_02 (16:49):
About half.
I'm really proud of ourexecutive team.
Our chief people officer, KathyMyers, has been with us for over
40 years.
She started in one of ourstudent-run branches.
It's an awesome story of growthin the organization.
She has a great context for whowe've been and also real
(17:14):
visionary ideas about how we cancontinue to grow into who we
wish to be.
And we've got some new folks.
Ashley Bettacletti just joinedus less than 90 days ago.
And what I love is that thediversity on our executive team
is beyond the things that youmight just see.
It is that diversity ofexperience, some having been
(17:34):
here for more than 40 years,some having just started,
experience beyond credit unions.
And having a group of peoplethat bring such different
viewpoint and expectations thatshare values is really powerful
and it's been a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_03 (17:53):
When you go to credit union meetings, how many
CEOs of credit unions that areover a billion dollars are in
your age group and gender?
I don't know.
The gender one is easy toanswer.
That's about 20%.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (18:12):
I don't know about age.
I'm a terrible judge of age.
I led HR, so that's the onlyanswer to that question.
And what I do think is reallyinteresting is...
talent and credit unionleadership is the lid in any
organization.
And specifically when we talkabout credit unions and how we
(18:33):
attract and retain that talentis challenging because there are
some constraints within creditunions that are different than
other organizations.
And there's some great thingsabout that.
And I think to your questionabout talent, one of the things
I'm really proud of aboutcommunity financial is we've
really tried to stretch ourthinking about the future You
(18:55):
know, I, before I came here wasworking at a credit union in
Colorado and attracting talentto move to Colorado is really
easy.
Attracting it to move toMichigan, despite how much I
love it is not so easy.
And so we do hiring from acrossthe country.
We also really think about, youknow, fractional work and the
(19:19):
way that we can bring in peoplelike George Hoffheimer to have a
portion of his time is supervaluable.
And he can continue to serveother credit unions outside of
the state of Michigan.
And he has benefits with us as ateam member.
And that is really exceptional.
And we wouldn't be able to hireGeorge probably as a full-time
(19:41):
team member.
And the gift of the hours we getfrom him is fantastic.
The person that leads events forus, Beth Schnaubel lives in
Wisconsin.
When I got here, I have to tellyou, my way of wanting to work
is to come into the office everyday.
I'm really traditional.
I love being here.
I like to get here early.
(20:01):
I stay late.
I like to be in person.
That's not the way the future ofwork is going to be built.
And I've challenged myself andchallenged a team in every
situation where we've thoughtabout, gosh, well, this person's
not going to want to do things.
in a traditional way, how mightwe think about that differently?
(20:21):
And it's allowed us to reallybuild a team that we wouldn't
have if we weren't ensuring thatwe are more flexible than we
might have been 10 or 20 yearsago.
SPEAKER_03 (20:34):
The website, is that under your leadership?
UNKNOWN (20:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:40):
Yes, we just updated it.
It's probably not even been 60days.
SPEAKER_03 (20:45):
I look at a lot of credit union websites.
Most of them suck, including thecredit union I use.
The website hasn't changed in 15years, I don't think.
It's static.
Whereas I looked at this one, Isaid, man, I've never seen one
like this.
This is kind of cool.
It's weirder than thetraditional credit union one,
(21:08):
but that also is visuallyengaging.
Salaam.
SPEAKER_05 (21:12):
The team's got a great job.
SPEAKER_01 (21:14):
Tansley's part of the CEO club that's in their
30s, right?
So there aren't
SPEAKER_02 (21:19):
a lot of those.
SPEAKER_01 (21:22):
Oh, if only.
Oh, okay.
I didn't know that.
That's why it was a toughquestion for her to answer.
SPEAKER_03 (21:30):
Yeah, there aren't too many CEOs in their 30s.
Not really.
Usually they're at$100 millioncredit unions.
SPEAKER_01 (21:35):
Right.
I will say there was a moment inthe Painted Hills QSO where I
think Matt Stevenson, Mark Zook,and Joe Arnold and I were
sitting around the table and wewere about to go through the
formation piece and we lookedaround the table and all of us
were in our, Zook's old, so he'sin his late 50s or something.
And the rest of us were in ourmid 40s and we're like, wait,
(21:57):
when did we become the grayhair, right?
So it is an interesting dynamicthat occurs where suddenly the
way you led and the things youdid in your 30s and 40s or early
40s begins to change and youstart realizing you're the
institution knowledge, theindustry knowledge.
You've seen cycles of thingsthat no one else has seen.
And that makes you uniquelyvaluable and qualified on how
(22:21):
you think about problems goingforward.
SPEAKER_02 (22:25):
And it makes me broken, right?
You know, I think it's reallyimportant for those of us who
dedicate our lives to creditunions or any industry to be
listening a lot more because asmuch as I value innovation, then
I do challenge myself to improveevery single day.
You know, I have tons of biasesbecause I've worked at a
(22:47):
financial institution my wholecareer and our ability to listen
to members and non-members andunderstand their biggest
problems is one of the mostimportant things we do every
day.
SPEAKER_03 (22:57):
Why do you have a podcast?
SPEAKER_02 (23:01):
A couple of reasons.
One, storytelling.
We think it's really importantto think about different ways
that we elevate the organizationand our leaders across the
organization.
The reason we started DespiteImpossible was when I got here,
I was talking about doingimpossible things.
(23:22):
I'm a big fan of Alice inWonderland, and I've been
talking to my daughter,Mackenzie, about the impossible
things that she does every daysince she was tiny.
And I think it's an importantquestion because it invites you
to think really differently.
And I had a team member say tome one day, you know, Tansley,
you keep talking about doingimpossible things.
(23:43):
And I just want you to know thatmeans that you can't do them.
So you should probably stopsaying.
And I said, thank you.
And I think that my leadershipis the lid.
And if I'm speakinghyperbolically, it's very
purposeful so that we can dreammore boldly.
And And what's been fun aboutDespite Impossible is that we
(24:05):
really invite guests that aredreamers and also doers.
And that's a unique combination.
You find a lot of people thatare really great executors.
There's a smaller group ofpeople that dream.
The combination of the two isreally unique.
And I think sharing that storyhelps people to see things that
(24:29):
they might not have and alsochallenge them to make sure that
the things they dream about,they actually do.
SPEAKER_03 (24:37):
What will credit unions look like in 2050, a
quarter century from now?
And most of the CEOs, if I wouldask them that question, they'd
say, I don't know.
I'll be long retired.
I'll be playing golf.
You're not in that
SPEAKER_04 (24:52):
position.
UNKNOWN (24:53):
I'll play golf.
SPEAKER_03 (24:53):
No, good for you.
Golf to me is, well, I can'timagine playing golf.
But what are credit unions goingto look like in 25 years?
SPEAKER_02 (25:02):
I hope that what the movement looks like is a much
more growth-oriented industry.
I was recently traveling for acredit union conference and when
I landed, hopped in the Uber,chatted with the Uber driver who
(25:23):
asked me what I was doing thereand I said I was had to do a
credit union conference and heasked what and I said a credit
union conference and he saidwhat's a credit union and you
know across the country rightwe've got less than nine percent
of the market share you knowcertainly better in some states
than others some regions andothers and man if you believe in
(25:44):
this movement if you believethat the financial cooperative
movement and model is the bestone for Americans which I do
then we should be much bigger.
And there's a lot we have to doto get there.
One, we got to tell our story.
We can't have people not knowwho we are.
And we can't keep saying thatit's good for us to be a best
(26:10):
kept secret.
You know, I've read some thingsrecently where people are
saying, well, you know, it'sactually better if people don't
really know who we are.
I have to argue against thatvehemently.
It is not better.
We've also got to...
SPEAKER_03 (26:23):
That's totally crazy to say that.
The only people who say that arepeople who know they're failing.
It's better that they don't knowwho we are.
I mean, that's not a businessposition.
SPEAKER_02 (26:34):
Yeah, except there is some Something about, I
think, our history and this ideaof humility that I think for
some people creates a frameworkto believe that that's true.
And I just think we have tochallenge it.
And the other thing I would sayis, you know, we stood up a QSO
called Backbone, which is reallyabout the storytelling.
(26:55):
We've now got 24 organizationsthat are standing together in
this.
And, you know, some people, whenI talk to them about Backbone,
will say, well, you know,Tansley, isn't that America's
Credit Union's job?
Isn't that the league andassociation?
It's really not our job to cometogether to tell the story of
credit unions.
And I think it is.
I think it's our job.
It's my job at CommunityFinancial.
(27:15):
It's our job collectively andcollaboratively from a
grassroots effort.
It is America's credit unionsjob.
It's the league and associationsjob.
And two things can be true atonce.
And in fact, it's better if theassociations and the leagues are
telling our story and we aretelling our story.
And if reporters talk to both ofthose organizations, awesome.
That is awesome.
(27:35):
Great, because I'll tell you,the ABA is telling our story and
it's not the story we wantAmericans to hear.
So I think storytelling is a bigpart of it.
I also think it is aboutrelevance, you know, and that is
not just technology.
I think it's experience.
I think it's product line.
I think it's a commitment tostrategy.
(27:58):
You know, strategy can't besomething that we do in August
or September and then create a500 page binder that nobody
read.
and say that we did it so we canshow it to the examiners.
SPEAKER_01 (28:09):
Strategy is just buying different tech systems
that immediately solve theproblem.
SPEAKER_05 (28:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:16):
It feels like that in a lot of credit unions,
right?
Like, oh, we've set our budgetstrategy.
So we're buying these four newsoftware packages that we will
never implement more than 20%of, right?
SPEAKER_05 (28:24):
And
SPEAKER_01 (28:26):
we'll never optimize it.
By the time we're doneimplementing, we're so
exhausted.
We never want to think aboutthat problem again, but we check
the box.
SPEAKER_02 (28:32):
Well, and what I love about our board, you know,
they, created our ends, which isjust their way of talking about
vision.
And it's bold, it's inspiring,and it is thinking about impact
in a much bolder way.
And it's thrilling to thinkabout strategy in that way.
And then these horizons, right?
(28:53):
You've got this horizon rightnow for us.
We're landing the plane on athree-year strategy.
We've got to execute that.
We've got goals to meet in 2025.
And we've got to be thinkingabout, okay, as we lift off into
2026, Over the next 10 years,what are some of the things that
we really want to reach to?
And then what does that looklike?
And I think that ability tothink with horizons in mind is a
(29:18):
critical part of howorganizations can both think.
think boldly enough and get toexecution.
Both things are true.
SPEAKER_01 (29:27):
Yeah.
One of the things I love abouthow you did the strategy too, is
that, you know, it kind ofstarts with this kind of, it
needs to fit on a napkin, right?
And then as you expand thenapkin, it gets into much more
depth, but both visually andcommunication style wise, I
think people often, I mean, alot of times when I look at a
credit union strategy orcertainly the credit unions that
(29:48):
I worked at, the strategy was,you know, a three worksheet
spreadsheet with 8,000 projectitems that you're going to check
the box, which is not inspiringat all.
It's mostly overwhelming.
It's hard to actually execute onand doesn't get to that broader
vision purpose.
And, you know, it certainlydoesn't...
Great, we checked off 82% ofthat.
Do we feel good that we...
(30:10):
Did it actually do anything?
I don't know, right?
Versus, you know, the feeling atCFCU and when you talk to people
and the energy and the thingsthat you guys are trying, it may
not be tactically as linear,right?
But it definitely feels likeit's changing something and
there's momentum and otherthings in there.
And to me, that's much harder toaccomplish at running an
(30:34):
organization.
SPEAKER_02 (30:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that seems so silly andsmall, right?
And again, it's one of thosethings that people roll their
eyes at me about.
And I think it's so powerful.
If you were to talk to anybodyhere, including frontline folks,
they understand what our purposeis They understand what we're up
to.
From that napkin strategy, everysix to eight weeks, we do
(30:58):
something called purpose andpace, which is, okay, what are
we all going to accomplish?
Not just the IT team.
What's everybody going toaccomplish in the next six to
eight weeks?
How does that connect back?
Being able to connect the dotsfor everybody across the
organization about strategy, Ithink, is the key to that
momentum.
SPEAKER_01 (31:18):
It's one of those goofy things.
I must talk to four or fivehundred credit unions a year,
right?
I can think of two that I have apretty good idea of their
strategy.
Like you guys are one, Rogue'sprobably the other.
Rogue, it's because I'mpersonally invested locally and
all my accounts are there.
Otherwise, even though I knowcredit unions inside and out, I
don't really know very manyother strategies, right?
(31:41):
So it has to me, even seeingthat, I think I had that napkin
strategy in my backpack forprobably three months.
So it just like keeps coming outand I'd read it.
There's power to that.
SPEAKER_02 (31:58):
I love being able to carry it.
It's just great.
SPEAKER_03 (32:02):
I've talked with a lot of credit union CEOs, Kirk,
and they don't have a strategy.
They have a to-do list.
They have some goals that werehanded down by the board and
that's it.
They say, that's my strategy.
I say, man, it's not a strategy.
That's a to-do list.
So, Tensley, if I fly toMichigan today and I go into a
(32:23):
branch of yours, and I talk tothree tellers and I say, what's
the purpose of this creditunion?
What are they going to tell me?
SPEAKER_02 (32:31):
To create joy and ignite Michiganders' impossible
dreams.
SPEAKER_03 (32:37):
You're absolutely sure of that?
SPEAKER_02 (32:39):
I am a thousand percent sure of it.
SPEAKER_03 (32:41):
Oh, man.
Hey, Kirk, I need some money tofly
SPEAKER_02 (32:44):
to
SPEAKER_05 (32:48):
Michigan.
SPEAKER_03 (32:48):
I got to test this.
Do
SPEAKER_05 (32:51):
it.
Do it.
SPEAKER_03 (32:54):
I mean, I'm a journalist.
I believe in shoe leather, youknow, like knock on the door.
SPEAKER_02 (32:57):
It's great.
We just opened our new locationin Detroit.
You would love it.
So come see us.
I
SPEAKER_03 (33:05):
talked with an economist the other day that
said that the real issue forcredit units today is they need
to become more operationallyefficient because of the lending
environment, number one, andalso the decline of non-interest
income, NSF income, stuff likethat, interchange.
(33:25):
It's all going downhill.
So therefore, he said it'sreally imperative to become more
operationally efficient.
What are you doing in that way?
SPEAKER_02 (33:36):
We're doing a lot because we were very
inefficient.
In fact, I was one of the worstin the country for our asset
size when I got here.
We very much leaned into humanpotential to solve problems and
did not invest as much in ourtechnology.
So we've done a lot to makeimprovements.
We've got more work to do.
(33:58):
And what I would say to you iswe're never going to be an OPEX
shop.
When you think about the waysthat you can drive success in an
organization, we're never goingto be the place that's cutting
everything and pouring waterinto our whiteout.
I know I'm aging myself withthat analogy.
SPEAKER_01 (34:16):
What's whiteout?
SPEAKER_02 (34:17):
Exactly.
What I believe to be true is youdo have to become more
efficient.
We've got work to do there.
And we've got to drive revenue.
And both of those things have tobe true.
And we've got to be thinkingcreatively about the ways that
we drive revenue.
The CUSO model is a brilliantone for credit unions.
It's not something we lean intoAnd the potential there, I
(34:40):
think, is great.
And it is fuel for the future ofthe organization.
So both of those things arefocuses for us.
And we're just never going to bethe place that's going to have
the lowest OPEX ratios.
We're just not.
It's not who we are.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (34:59):
Well, his point was actually interesting due to
various factors.
Many credit unions actually canmake loans, et cetera, at less
cost than a Chase.
In other words, less cost thanthe biggest banks.
And these credit unions, the bigones, say, Nick, you're federal.
He didn't name anybody by name.
(35:20):
They can always beat Chase onrate if they choose to because
they're more operationallyefficient and they don't pay
income tax.
SPEAKER_01 (35:29):
You know, so I ran a study on this where I went back
and looked over time at thenumber of members served per
employee.
And I thought, surely with allthe technology that we've
implemented over the last 25years, this must have shifted.
And it is identical to where itwas 25 years ago.
SPEAKER_03 (35:48):
That's because credit unions don't downsize.
Every time I've talked to acredit union, they say I'm
implementing AIs.
I say, how many employees willbe cut?
They say none.
I say, this doesn't make anysense.
Well,
SPEAKER_01 (36:06):
but I think some of it is, you know, if you look at
the work that was done on ateller line 25 years ago is very
different than the work on theteller line today.
We're not cashing payrollchecks.
We're not.
I mean, there's some of that,but by and large, it's a very
different chunk of work.
And we are serving more assetsand more loans per employee, but
the actual number of membershasn't shifted.
(36:26):
I didn't get as far as to kindof look at what's the actual
number of members.
average median income of anAmerican over that time period,
and does it actually correlate,and have we actually
accomplished anything?
But I also think most of thetime when we're focused on
operating efficiency, we're justcomparing another credit union's
OPEX to ours, which you can fixby growing the numerator, right?
(36:51):
I'm failing the math today.
I don't remember which one.
The numerator and denominator.
I don't remember which one's onthe bottom.
So you can grow it by shiftingthat ratio by growing assets or
loan dollar amounts withoutactually shifting any material
expense.
It looks like you're moreefficient, but I'm not sure you
actually are.
I think a huge part of it is thepeer-to-peer benchmarking has us
(37:15):
focused on operatingefficiencies that are not
actually the right things to befocused on.
SPEAKER_03 (37:21):
That's an interesting possibility.
So, Tazlee, are you looking todo a merger?
Every credit union is looking todo a merger.
SPEAKER_02 (37:33):
You know, we will certainly always explore
possibilities.
We are really open and curious.
And it's not a leading strategyfor us.
In every one of my last journeysat a credit union, a merger was
my last project, interestingly.
They are...
(37:54):
really heavy lifts they'redistracting for the organization
doesn't matter the asset size infact several of those were very
very very small mergers and theytake the same amount of time
energy and effort unless you youknow you really sort of do the
divide and conquer and you'vegot a part of the organization
that's that's completely focusedon that and so you know the
(38:17):
other thing i would say ismergers and credit unions are
marriages they're notacquisitions and And they can
fall apart for very sillyreasons and are not about the
business always and certainlynot always about what's best for
the member.
Again, this is one of thosetopics, though, where I worry
(38:38):
that we as an industry getreally divided.
Like, I'm pro-merger.
I'm anti-merger.
I'm neither of those things.
What I'm responsible for as theleader of the organization is
what's best for our members.
How do I bring the most value toMichiganders?
How do I ensure that we areready for the next 75 years.
And if a merger is part of that,then we'll look at it.
(39:01):
And I just think there's anawful lot of other things we can
do strategically that are reallyimportant that can create impact
for us.
And so it's not something we'rechasing.
SPEAKER_01 (39:11):
There are a couple of credit unions out there who
basically live off of mergers,right?
And they do one every sixmonths.
And they get really good.
That is a strategy where they'rebuilding skills and techniques
and approaches to be good at itand they know who to target, who
not to target, how to structurethe deals, you know, all that
kind of stuff.
Yeah.
(39:31):
The opportunistic merger, Ithink the challenge with it is,
let's say you actually have astrategy, most likely you're
going to put that strategy onhold for some period of time to
complete this financialtransaction that then, frankly,
further takes you away fromdoing the hard things that make
that strategy pay off over time.
SPEAKER_03 (39:49):
Yeah.
I also point to maybe federal,which is the biggest...
monster in the Savannah.
And I don't think they've done ameaningful merger ever,
certainly not in the last 10years.
Some of their competitors havedone a merger every 30 seconds,
and they have not grown at thesame rate.
SPEAKER_01 (40:10):
If you took the focus and clarity that comes out
of a merger, and you apply thatsame amount of energy to a
single metric, member growth,operating efficiency, whatever
it is, the long-termsustainability impact on that
credit union from figuring outthat mouse trap would be so much
more impactful than anyindividual merger that you did.
SPEAKER_03 (40:34):
Yeah, I'm not anti-merger at all.
It's just, when I look at it, Isee so, I'm just so impressed by
Navy Federal's growth year in,year out.
And they're not, have they donea mercy merger here or there?
Probably.
But that's inconsequential totheir balance sheet.
(40:56):
They're doing it, man.
And they're doing it withoutbuying anything that's loose on
the table.
All
SPEAKER_01 (41:02):
I know is we did three acquisitions at Ogo and my
conclusion after that was theymostly cause pollution and
distraction and put us in ascenario where we needed to do
another one to hit the nextstrategic goal.
Instead of actually focusing onthe really hard problem that
(41:26):
would create long-termdifferentiation in a complex
marketplace that would win usthe business over time, you
know, we would try to pick up aproduct or a service or
something that we thought wasstrategically aligned and
inevitably, I mean, one of thethree I think was really good.
One was okay and one was quiteterrible at the end of the day
(41:47):
in terms of the distraction andthe culture challenges and the
people piece of it that even ifthe product was amazing, the end
philosophy wasn't actuallyhelpful in achieving our longer
term goals and differentiating,right?
UNKNOWN (42:04):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_03 (42:04):
What's your field of membership, Tansley?
SPEAKER_02 (42:07):
The state of Michigan.
If you live, work, or worship inthe state of Michigan, you can
join the credit
SPEAKER_01 (42:13):
union.
Can you worship virtually?
SPEAKER_02 (42:15):
That's a good
SPEAKER_03 (42:20):
question.
SPEAKER_05 (42:20):
That's true.
A
SPEAKER_03 (42:21):
lot of Catholic masses are online.
SPEAKER_01 (42:25):
That's what I'm asking.
SPEAKER_03 (42:26):
You could become a member of a church in Detroit.
What can I say?
SPEAKER_02 (42:31):
I'm definitely going to have to check with our legal
team before we say yes to I
SPEAKER_01 (42:37):
can see the membership process.
Now you're doing CFCU.
Hold on a second.
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