Mike Ritland | Ep. 16 - The Cult of Recreationalism

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
spring in, but it'd be kind of weird.
lurking in the corners.
I like weird.
I guess.
What's up everybody and welcome to theCult of Recreationalism podcast.

(00:21):
Let me start that over again.
What's up everybody and welcome to theCult of Recreationalism podcast.
I'm your host, Sean Lake.
And today on the show, we have three timeNew York Times bestselling author, Mike
Ritlin.
Goldie Wilson, I like the sound of that.

(00:42):
You don't know what that's from, do you?
Three times.
Do you know what?
Do you watch movies growing up?
I mean, I'm going to say, yeah.
Back to the Future?
And you didn't know that that was fromthat?
Yeah, after game.

(01:03):
Yeah, OG, if I can, he goes back to 1955.
He goes into the little diner and there'sthis old white guy that owns it.
And then there's this younger black guysweeping the floor.
He says Goldie Wilson, he's like, I'mgonna run from there.
He's like.
Yeah, sure, fuckin' you'll be a mayor.
Sure thing, buddy.
And then he goes, Goldie Wilson, I likethe sound of that.

(01:26):
And didn't Michael J.
Fox say something to him like, you'regoing to be mayor.
Yeah.
There we go.
Because I think in the future, he wasactually the mayor.
He knew.
Inside track.
He could have made an absolute fortune inthe stock market if he just played his
cards differently.
Well Biff did that in number two.
He bought the sports Almanac and then cameback and...

(01:49):
Yeah.
So you're basically Bif Tanin.
That's what you're telling me.
I just suggested that Michael could havebeen Biff, not that that was going to be
my game.
You know, it's just an idea.
So folks, a few things about Mike.
Mike is originally from Iowa, Waterloo,Iowa.

(02:11):
Served 12 years as a US Navy SEAL.
Served with none other than Glenn Bubb-Doherty, something we're going to talk
about a little bit today.
I think I already mentioned three.
New York Times bestselling books.
He's a public speaker.
He's the founder of the Warrior DogFoundation and the host of an incredibly

(02:34):
popular podcast, The Mic Drop.
Welcome to the show, man.
Thanks for having me, I appreciate it.
Sorry I'm late.
It's all right.
These things happen.
Look, this is a lot more fun than doing anInstagram live, which basically serves
just those group of people that watch inreal time.
Because now, should we choose to, we cansteer a bunch of people into chit chatting

(02:55):
here.
That being said, I kind of wanted to setthe stage.
Obviously, we're here.
We're going to talk a little bit aboutservice.
We've done this once before, where we weretalking about some old Glenn stories and
having a fun time with that.
But I want to get into how someone goesfrom Waterloo, Iowa.
to becoming a Navy SEAL.

(03:15):
If you don't mind, I'm sure you've talkedabout this before, but like just that jump
seems like a pretty monumental one.
that ever asked me that.
And, no, not really.
yeah.
So there was a couple of things, I guess,that were, if you want to call it fate,
whatever, you know, just things that hadto have happened that maybe weren't,

(03:37):
expected or that you wouldn't think, youknow, would kind of lead me in that path,
I guess.
But number one, you know, Iowa is a hugewrestling state and especially back then,
in the eighties.
80s and 90s, that was when the IowaHawkeyes were kind of at the height of
their wrestling dynasty that Penn State isat now.
And so kind of everybody wrestled, my dadincluded.

(04:01):
But it did beat the shit out of his kneesand hips so bad that as we were growing
up, he was doing a lot of rehab, physicalrehab in swimming pools, and would drag us
along.
And so we ended up swimming a lot growingup.
And...
that had a huge impact on steering me intothe Navy versus any of the other special

(04:23):
operations, as well as my mom, you know,having some heartburn about Army special
operations.
You know, her dad was in the Navy.
And so, you know, she was like, if youwant to join the military, join the Navy.
Your grandpa was in the Navy and, youknow, whatever.
But,
you are always going like, you know,coming into your teenage years coming up,
you're like, this is where I'm tracking.

(04:44):
I mean, yeah, getting into high school, Ifor sure did, but there's kind of a weird
irony in that during the Gulf War, I wasin junior high and I remember watching
that the bombing campaign that first, youknow, 24 hours or so.
And I was actually fucking terrified ofthe thought of having to go to war or even

(05:07):
being in the military.
It's like, holy shit, I hope I never haveto do that, you know, kind of thing.
two, three years later, like you hitpuberty and all of a sudden your nuts take
control of your brain and you're like,fuck yeah, I wanna do that shit.
And it was just a weird, like two polaropposites just a couple of years apart.
And one of the catalysts was this popularmechanics article that I read that was

(05:34):
like this big, like 12 page spread onNaval Special Warfare.
And I had never heard of it at the timeand that was the first time I'd ever even.
realized that the SEAL teams were a thing.
And I was just fascinated by two things.
One, that it was like super elite.
There's a tagline in there that's fairlycommonly referenced, which is that BUDS is

(05:57):
the most difficult training that the USmilitary has to offer.
And as any young man, it's like, well, Iwant to do the hardest.
If that's the hardest, that's what I wantto do.
Just kind of an ego thing.
You know, to say that it's harder than anyof the other ones, you know, it's kind of
subjective, but it is the longest pipelineby quite a bit.

(06:18):
So, you know, I would stand to reason thatit probably is just from that standpoint,
attrition rate, et cetera.
But so that was kind of step two.
And then, you know, watching the movieNavy Seals with Charlie Sheen reading the
Dick Marcinko books and.
and you know a few other ones jamespatches watson team guy in vietnam wrote a

(06:41):
book named point called point man that wasreally good and even like the carlos half
cox sniper book even though he was amarine it was a lot of cool vietnam sniper
stories and yeah just kind of all funneledme into that that
about being in the pool, like you had aleg up on a ton of folks because you were

(07:04):
literally in the water all the time andthen having your mom on the other side
like, you want to you want to join specialforces.
You can just skip that Air Force stuffright away in Army and just brush that
off.
And you're not even going to considerbeing a Marine, but Navy.
yeah, yeah, I mean, so that's what I mean.
It's kind of, it's kind of strange how,you know, several things, I don't know

(07:26):
that I'd say had to have taken place, but,but a high probability that they would
have had to have taken place for me to endup there, you know, any, any one of them
not being present and I may not have, youknow, wound up there.
So.
Yeah, no, it makes, it makes a ton ofsense.
That's, that's interesting.
So it's funny because I remember I in1990, like when we declared war, you know,

(07:49):
what it was like Christmas was wintertime,going into the first, the first role into
Iraq.
I was with Glenn and I remember being atthe Alta lodge.
We were teenagers ski bumming and it wasour first exposure to, you know, really
war.
Cause like we had the Falklands, but wewere like,
you know, in middle school or whateverwhen that happened, that didn't really
count.

(08:09):
It was over in about 13 minutes.
But I remember watching George Bush seniorlike giving that big declaration and then
like the video footage of it coming out orwhatever we could see on TV.
And we're just like, shit.
this is real.
And like asking questions like, I wonderif we're gonna get drafted.
Like just

(08:31):
same thing.
I was like, holy shit, what if the draft,I'm only a few years away from it.
But I also think historically it was thefirst time where there was kind of real
time war footage.
Because even in Vietnam it was delayedquite a bit and edited.
It was like they had hard camera reelsthat they were bringing back.

(08:51):
And so now you've got satellite.
connectivity and it's like this ishappening as we speak like you're watching
this happening live.
It was the first time really in historythat the people witnessed that you know
and I think that added an element ofrealism and for me at that time or at that
age added an element of fear to it becauseI was just like holy shit like this is

(09:15):
happening right now you know yeah it'spretty wild.
So you know you guys were in high school.
Yeah.
And then get into high school and you'relike, all right, it's on now.
Yeah, yeah, just a couple years later Iread the article and I had a growth spurt
and had a deeper voice and it was justlike now all of a sudden I had a totally

(09:36):
different fucking perspective on life.
And not to drag dogs into everything butthere's a big parallel there too in that
people a lot of times will try to doserious dog work with dogs when they're
still too young.
and run into that same problem, they endup screwing the dog up because they put

(09:58):
too much pressure on them at too early ofan age.
Because dogs grow fast, you know, at ayear old, most of the time, they're
physically about as big as they're goingto get or pretty close.
They may fill out a little bit more, butthey're still mentally very immature and
young.
And, you know, I've seen that.
I've even made that mistake before of, youknow, a big dog at 14 months that just

(10:19):
mentally was not.
not mature but physically was a fuckingmonster and just put too much pressure on
him and ended up fucking ruining him.
I didn't take his life ruining him, itjust made him...
Well, yeah, it made him too sketched outin those types of scenarios and I never

(10:46):
got him to recover.
So I ended up just giving him to a...
a friend that lived in the same town andhe just had him as a farm dog and he
turned out great for that but yeah, it'sjust kind of a shitty deal but anyway, you
know, humans and dogs have a lot ofparallels that way.
Yeah, so not to jump around, but were youworking with dogs before joining the Navy?

(11:10):
Because I thought it came the other wayaround.
Yeah, I mean, not, I would say not likeofficially or formally.
I mean, I was, I was big into dogs.
I had some friends of mine growing up thattheir dads were into duck hunting pretty
heavy.
And so they had kind of, you know, a smallbird dog kennel and a few different guys

(11:30):
were pretty into it.
So I had some exposure to working dogtraining from that aspect.
And we had a dog that, that I was really,
close with, that just kind of bonded with.
And every day after school, I'd come homeand walk him for like two hours.
And on weekends, I'd take him, especiallylike in the winter time, I'd take him over

(11:53):
to this golf course that was near ourhouse and spend like all day Saturday
running around in the snow and frozenponds with this dog just having fun.
And yeah, just like a lot of kids are, alot of young boys especially, I think are.
dog guys or dog kids growing up andthey're into it, but I was for sure a

(12:15):
level above what a normal kid might be.
Yeah, it wasn't just like, Hey, I wantlike my eight year old son is dying to
have a dog.
He knows nothing about the responsibilityor, or how to work with it and train it.
And this is just to be a neighborhood dog.
This isn't anything special.
We're not talking about a hunting dog or aservice animal.

(12:37):
but then you get up to those differenttasks and yeah, there's a whole layer of
training there.
I didn't know that you had that before youwent into the Navy because part of the,
you know,
I mean, I definitely had the bug longbefore then.
And I do think to your mentioning of yourson wanting one, we were the same way.

(12:57):
And even at seven, eight years old, I wasbegging my parents for a dog, and they
never would do it.
They eventually did.
But I think making us wait several yearsand making us.
like kind of almost testing, like, do youreally want a dog or is this just like an
impulse thing?
Like, is there's a cool one down thestreet or your friend had one and you had

(13:18):
fun with it at a sleepover or whatever,you know, and just year after year after
year, just kept fucking begging them.
And finally they, they let us have one.
And so it was like this huge buildup, youknow, years of wanting one and then
finally getting one, I think reallyhelped, cement the dedication and
commitment to it.
Plus, you know, at that point I was 11 or12 instead of.

(13:40):
seven or eight and yeah, I was ready forthe commitment and took it very seriously.
For me, I always enjoyed it though.
It's one thing, even if it was picking updog shit or taking him for walks because
he needs one, I loved it.
I would take him for way more walks thanwas asked of me and did a lot of things

(14:03):
with him, way more than just the standard,like here's the bare minimum you have to
do to.
to earn being able to have a dog, becauseI just enjoyed all of it.
And then obviously, once I came in and sawmilitary working dogs doing what they did,
then I was hooked.

(14:25):
So that's funny.
So you join, you graduate high school andyou go right into the Navy basic training,
right?
You didn't skip, you went right on in.
When I graduated high school I was only17.
So I actually had to wait.
I did the delayed entry program and joinedlike in March or April of my senior year.

(14:45):
But I had to wait until the end of summerto turn 18 and then right after I turned
18 I went to boot camp like two weekslater.
So yeah, straight in, right at 18 yearsold.
I was at Bud's at 18.
So it was a...
pretty steep ramp up, you know, but.

(15:07):
Yeah.
I mean, did you, and just prepping wisebeforehand, like before you went into
basic training was like, I'm going to do alot of running and pushups.
Or I mean, there weren't any manuals orYouTube videos back then.
not really, but there were a couple of VHStapes, a team guy named CJ Karachi that

(15:28):
had these like Navy Seal workouts.
They weren't Buds Prep, but they were justlike kind of a standard calisthenic body
weight type of workout that was common inthe Seal teams at that time.
And so I bought those and I will say,
right?
We're talking VHS tapes or DVD.

(15:51):
VHS, yeah, DVD didn't exist then.
So yeah, VHS tape.
And I will say the workouts were kickingthe nuts.
I mean, I was in pretty good shapeswimming.
I swam year round from the time I was likefive until I did take a couple of years
off in junior high because I got a littleburnout.
But then back in high school, I swamduring the swim season and then swam for

(16:14):
USS club.
off season to stay in decent shape.
And I, you know, lifted and I ran, I did acouple of years cross country and, you
know, I played, you know, football,baseball, basketball, you know, tag at
school.
Like growing up, I played every fuckingsport you could most, most years and, and
just was always outside running aroundstaying super active.

(16:37):
So, you know, being in at least decentshape, you know, wasn't super difficult
for me.
I actually had more trouble kinda puttingweight on.
In fact, my first Navy ID, I weighed 147and on the same height.
I was the same height I am now.
So, yeah, I was like 140 when I joined andI actually gained weight in boot camp,

(17:00):
which most people don't.
But I was just always rail thin.
And it took, I mean, even into my 20s, mid20s, I didn't break 200 pounds until I was
in my mid 30s.
It just...
super late bloomer physically, like Icouldn't grow a beard, I couldn't put
weight on, you know, even the whole time Iwas in the Navy, because I got out at 30.
But from 18 to 30, that whole 12 years,like it was really difficult for me to put

(17:25):
and keep any kind of weight on, you know,which is nice in some ways, and that, you
know, extra weight in the SEAL teams isn'treally a good thing.
You know, you're doing a lot of movingyour own body weight around, climbing
ladders.
throwing gear on and hiking up fuckingmountains.
So being a big, jack, muscly, steak neck,meat head, there are guys that pull it off

(17:49):
and can do it, but a lot of extra weightdoesn't help any.
And neck.
Cause like you, I associate you like thelast, you know, whatever I've known you
for about 15 years and you know, goingback to like, eight, nine, like, and I
associate you more like, I guess you'reright.

(18:10):
When I look back at that, I'm like, yeah,you were, you were, you were thinner, but
like, you know, you were still Jack andstealing and running around a bunch.
So I think the running body weight thatall makes sense.
So CJ Karachi workouts combined with pooltime.
combined with running cross country andplaying all the sports.
Like you kind of had a really goodbaseline.
It's funny.

(18:30):
Cause I was going to ask you like, whatadvice would you want to give someone, you
know, young kid getting ready to go in,you know, like it's a, it's a layup
question, but like, you're kind ofanswering it.
Well, yeah, I mean, to me, with noresources, that's about as good of a prep
as I think you could probably organize.
Nowadays, though, I mean, with theinternet and Instagram and just there's a

(18:55):
number of dudes that specialize in specialoperations prep courses.
And I think that they're better.
What's that?
I say we know a few.
Yeah, I mean, Stu Smith, you know, yourbuddy Mark out there, there's another guy,
Jason Swee, he's an Air Force PJ guy thathas a group down in Florida that does the

(19:17):
same kind of stuff.
And those are all great too.
You know, I think they do some kind ofcustomized, you know, workout plans for
you and stuff like that.
But, you know, to me, there's kind of twodifferent things at play though.
You know, the SEAL teams, Bud's
and in general, the mentality that they'relooking for is somebody that can overcome

(19:39):
challenges and adversity.
And to me, part of that is not reallyknowing what the fuck you're getting
yourself into and not being overlyprepared.
Because the reality of it is, is thatyou're gonna run into occurrences all the
time in the SEAL teams that you weren'tprepared for.

(20:00):
and you've got to be able to adapt,overcome, figure it out, and ultimately
succeed.
And to me, there's something to be saidabout that path of being like, fuck, I
don't really know what to expect.
I'm going to get myself in as good a shapeas I can to the best of how I know how to
do it.
And I'm just going to show up and slap mynuts on the counter and hope that I make

(20:23):
it.
Whereas by...
over engineering the entire thing and gameand knowing exactly every day of what's
going to happen.
And I did all of this prep work to getready so that it's not as challenging or
whatever.
I mean, it's still going to be a kick inthe nuts.
And of course I have some bias becausethat's how I did it.
So that's the better way to do it.

(20:45):
arguably, like there's an ignorance isbliss element that you can't, you can't
ignore.
I mean,
yeah, I mean, I didn't it's not like Iknew nothing.
I mean, reading.
I will say, I mean, reading Roe Warrior byDick Marcinko gives you a pretty good idea
what you're getting into.
I mean, it'll about scare the shit out ofyou, honestly.

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I mean, like when you're reading it, like,holy shit, we have to do what?
You know, so he gives you a pretty goodglimpse of kind of what.
what the kicking of that hornet's nest isgonna be like when you show up.
And it was pretty accurate.
I mean, reading that and going throughtraining, I was like, yeah, there weren't
any huge surprises, with one exception,that Sancombe Island, the last five weeks

(21:29):
of training was way harder than I thoughtit would be.
And I think it does vary a fair bit classto class.
It kinda depends on how big the class isand how you're doing and what time of year
it is.
There are some factors that I think play abig role in that, but I was not expecting
it to be as brutal as it was.
I mean, to me, it was harder than HellWeek.

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That was my experience.
I'm sure there's other people that it wasthe opposite.
But yeah.
their own like, you know, I mean, again,civilian side here, experience, right,
like working with Mark Devine on his sealfit stuff, like, you get these 50 hour
windows training a bunch of folks goingthrough different evolutions.
And you just every who knows what's goingto set someone off and they're going to

(22:13):
have their low point, but it's coming.
You just you know, it's coming.
And I don't think there's any real scriptto I think you can draw statistical.
conclusions around which ones are going tobe the worst.
Hell Week would be kind of a layup.
But yeah, like you might have breezedthrough Hell Week and then you get to San
Clemente and you're like, mentally, I'dshifted a gear that we were over the
toughest hurdle and now, no, I was totallywrong.

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And now I'm kind of fucked.
I got to I got back out of that.
and to be fair, that could have been agross miscalculation on my part of having
senioritis.
Like, fuck, we got a few weeks left.
It's gravy training.
The fuck it is.
Right up until the last second oftraining, you're getting your balls kicked

(22:58):
in over and over and over.
And so very well could have been just,again, my miscalculation.
But.
But anyway, I guess my point in all ofthat was, you know, I did feel like I was
in pretty good shape.
Navy boot camp is not challenging.
You know, if you're in the kind of shapeto where, you know, you're preparing to go

(23:23):
to SEAL training, Navy boot camp is notgoing to be a challenge.
And I would say further, if you findyourself feeling challenged in Navy boot
camp and you're trying to make it toBudge, you may want to rethink that.
or put in a lot of extra work.
I mean, I was one of the takeaways fromGlenn again, let's like when he was going
through it all as a ripe old man at, youknow, 24, 25.

(23:45):
And I remember him coming home from basicand being like, yeah, I did a lot of extra
work.
Like we get done with our basic stuff.
And then I go and do, you know, a bunch ofpush up squat running, like, you know, the
stuff that we knew to do.
Yeah, same here.
I mean there were a handful of us that allwanted to go to Bugs and so like at the
end of the day we'd go off you know intothe back corner and do flutter kicks and

(24:08):
push -ups and and try to get extra extrawork in but yeah.
No, it makes sense.
That's good advice.
Like, hey, if you're, if you're strugglingin basic, you gotta know you're going to
be struggling infinitely harder once youget into buds.
Yeah, and I think, yeah, I mean, one ofthe, one of the problems I think with the
pipeline is that, I don't think that theselection test, does an adequate enough

(24:33):
job of selecting guys, that are cut outfor the training.
I think it's too easy, frankly, is that,you know, cause to me, like, if, if you
can pass that test to say like, okay, wellyeah, you're, you're ready to go to buds.
I would say no.
to me, like, if you pass that test withflying colors, then yes.
If you barely pass that test, kind ofsimilarly, I would say you may want to

(24:57):
rethink that, you know.
Another component that I do think isimportant enough to even bring up and keep
droning on about is one kind of simplefactor of, especially now with the amount
of information that's available, the kindof self -starter mentality is one of the

(25:19):
biggest.
predictors of success in BUDs that exists.
And in that, it's, if you show up to aSEAL recruiter and you say, hey, you know,
my name's Jim Bob and I wanna be a SEAL,what do I need to do?
If I'm that SEAL recruiter, I would say,you should just turn around and fucking

(25:41):
leave.
Like, if you haven't, like, if you're notcoming here and saying, here's my PST
score.
Here's my ASVAB score.
Here's all the shit that I need.
Like I'm ready to go.
I've already researched all that.
I know what I need.
Here's what I want to do.
Can you fucking sign me up for thepipeline?
I'm ready to go.
Like if you're not that kind of kid thathas already done all of that, that's done

(26:02):
everything that you can do before you showup to say, Hey, will you help me?
Like that, that single fucking thing is soimportant.
Like the, because I've known a number ofrecruiters and.
It's a pretty recurring theme that all ofthem are like, you know, guys that the
guys that show up, they're like, Hey, Iwant to be a seal.
What do I need to do?
None of them have made it like none ofthem, you know,

(26:23):
you just touch on something so important,right?
It's like, what do I need to do?
You're asking like, of course, they'regoing to tell you some of the specifics.
But if you haven't done everything youalready know to do, and exhausted those,
like before you come in, like you justsaid, like, literally, like, have you done
a PSD?
Like, have you have you gone through that?
And like, really, like made sure thatyou're set?

(26:44):
Yeah, and I think that's pretty true inall of life is like, you know, before you
ask somebody for help, and I don't give ashit what it's for, you know, unless you
have an arterial bleed on the side of thehighway after an accident, like, but I
mean, I'm generally speaking, like, if youhaven't done every fucking thing you can
do on your own, before you go ask somebodyfor help, you're wrong, you know, and

(27:08):
you're lazy, you know, and so to me,again, it's like, if you're that fucking
lazy, where you...
you're just going to try to get spoon fedwalking into a recruiter's office.
Don't waste your or his time, you know,because that's what it's going to be.
Yeah, and they don't want to deal withthat because it's just more paperwork for
someone who wasn't prepared for it.

(27:28):
Like, no, no, no, go over here.
one more person that they got in quota-wise.
So that young kid, if he comes in andsays, hey, I don't have a fucking clue
what I'm doing, and I need a waiver forbody fat percentage, come on in.
We'll get you fucking signed up right now.
They're still going to welcome you withopen arms and tell you to sit down.

(27:49):
the quota.
Beware the quota and do your fucking workbeforehand.
Get prepped.
So.
you up because if you don't make it toBudge, you'll still fill a slot in the
Navy and they're happy about that.
yeah.
Yeah, that's not an easy contract to justget out of like, I don't like it today.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna just leave.
No, it's, I mean, shy of trying to killyourself in boot camp.

(28:12):
You're not going to get out of it, youknow, and then you're going to end up in a
fucking psych ward, you know, like you'renot, it's not going to be a better
scenario, but.
No, no, no.
In fact, if you get to that point whereyou literally made it into the Navy, and
you're thinking about killing yourself,well, man, there's a whole bunch of
missteps that happened probably years andyears prior that we got we don't have time

(28:33):
to unpack right here.
So you make it through buds, you make itthrough San Clemente, your your your
active duty.
When do you meet Glenn?
So I met Glenn out at Nyland.
He went through four classes ahead of me,but he was a corpsman, so he had gone to
18 Delta, he had just finished, and he wasdoing corpsman support for my SQT class,

(28:59):
or at that time it was still called STT,but, so, I mean, I'll never.
laymen that don't know all these acronyms.
Yeah, so SEAL tactical training or SEALqualification training.
So after BUDS, which is basic underwaterdemolition SEAL training, that's six and a
half months.
Then you go through Airborne and then yougo through this advanced training phase.

(29:20):
It's about four more months that kind ofbridges the gap between BUDS, which is
really a selection course and jumping intoa SEAL team where they need you to be
caught up to the best of your ability.
So.
So SQT, this advanced training, and it'smore of a gentleman's course in terms of

(29:43):
instructors aren't treating you likeyou're a total piece of shit.
They'll still mess with you a little bit,but it's much more like, hey, our job is
like you've made the cut, you've proven toour community that you belong here.
Now it's our job to get you from whereyou're at to as close as where you need to

(30:03):
be.
You know to jump into a seal platoon andnot weigh those guys down so We're out at
an island which is eastern, CaliforniaIt's out right on the border of Arizona
and California by kind of by Yuma and it'sjust a man.
It's a horrible place frankly, but We do alot of land warfare stuff out there and

(30:26):
does it warfare stuff and so I'm in thisadvanced training class
driving out in this big truck with likeyou know 30 dudes piled in the back of it
in the middle of August or whatever andand we pull up in and off of a siphon road
and are getting ready to do some immediateaction drills or some kind of land warfare
shooting drills and and Glenn is laying onhis back with his head up against the tire

(30:52):
of a Humvee with a big fucking likesombrero style hat like sun hat down over
his eyes reading a fucking book.
with his legs crossed and I was like, whois this fucking moron?
You know, I was just like, I was like,what did they let one of the
environmentalists in and he's taking afucking nap on the Humvee?

(31:12):
Like what's with the hat?
Yeah.
Like throwing granola at him.
I was like, who's this fucking rim job?
And, but then, you know, in true Glennfashion, he stands up and has a smile on
his face and like nine seconds later, youcan't help but just fucking love the guy.
I was like, dude, this guy's fuckingawesome.
Like smile on his face, handshake, youknow, never met a stranger, starts

(31:35):
cracking jokes, like just superpersonable.
And yeah, I mean, that was the first timeI ever met him and never looked back after
that.
I mean, it just like, you know, I knowwe've all said this a million times, but
I'll say it again.
I've never met anybody that so many otherpeople referred to him as their best
friend, you know?

(31:55):
And I know you guys, you know,
You know, if he had a best friend, it wasyou, you know, but like a thousand fucking
people out there like, yeah, Glenn, he'smy fucking best friend.
Like, no, he's not.
It's just Glenn.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, so just such a fucking amazingguy, man.

(32:15):
I mean, I, you know, lost a lot of friendsover the years and I think about all of
them, but, you know, Glenn is just like,that hole is still just as big as the
fucking day it happened, you know.
It's interesting how that works.
Like that is interesting.
Like it's still there.
Like it's, it's, it doesn't go anywhere.

(32:37):
It's like, man, this wasn't supposed tohappen.
Like you're supposed to be here.
And.
It is weird for sure, you know, and yeah,I mean, it's like, there's so many things
I think about where I'm like, fuck, I wishhe was here to share this with or, you
know, whatever.
And it's like, yeah, it just, it never,never goes away.
That sting is every bit as painful asfucking the day it happened, you know.

(33:00):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's interesting.
Cause you're kind of like, you're sharingstuff with him, rolling it through your
head.
And then I always joke with folks likeWWGD.
Like what would Glenn do?
No, I'm like, my God, fuck.
I don't, I don't like the answer half thetime because I'm like, God damn it.
That's the harder thing to do.
Let's go do it.
sure it's the right thing and the goodthing and yeah that's what he was all

(33:22):
about but I am curious how many times didyou use the Glenn would want you to blow
me type of line early on after you knowlike back home or what tell me you never
used it
It's not like he had to be dead for me touse that.
Okay?
Let's be clear.
that way before.

(33:42):
Listen, I'm just going to say lady on mybest friend's Navy seal.
Okay.
he wants you to do this.
You want this?
I definitely want this.
But really you want this.
the most important thing is that you wantthis.
So we can all agree that you want this.
So first impressions, you meet thisgoddamn hippie with camouflage as a Navy

(34:09):
seal with his fucking sombrero hat oneating granola reading a book.
And you ended up in the same platoon.
Like you weren't in the same platoon whenyou first met, but you end up actually
deploying together.
Tell me how that all came about.
Cause you guys.
Yeah, well, so I will say Glenn, I thinkis is one of if not the most shining

(34:31):
example of Don't Judge a Book by its coverbecause he's such a fucking nice guy, you
know, and he's friendly and he's charming,he's outgoing, he's extroverted, but not
in like a holy fuck, what does this dudeon?
Like it's not over the top, you know, likehe struck such a good balance of like
making you feel comfortable and welcome.

(34:53):
and just, you know, so easy going withoutit being disingenuous, manufactured over
the top, or you can tell there's anulterior motive, like you're just trying
to be nice so that people will say, thatguy's a nice guy, like he just was genuine
that way.
But I think in that, and especially myoriginal kind of interpretation in how I

(35:17):
viewed him was,
you know, not that he was a pussy, butthat he was like this nice guy and he read
a lot and you know, he followed theGrateful Dead and was a ski bum and like,
you know, when you think like consummatefucking warrior with a mental and physical
fucking prowess to them and a warriorspirit, you know, where you're like, yeah,

(35:40):
if I go to war, it's going to be with thatguy.
Like, you know, at first glance, firstimpression, that's not what you would
think of.
No, you just said ski bum follow theGrateful Dead around looks like a hippie
lying around like he's
the time.
Yeah, like, and was just like, he wasn'tserious.
Like, you know, I mean, he was, he wasalways having a good time.
Like there were times where he would getserious and he knew when to be serious.

(36:02):
But even then it's like, he would stillmake, make the most out of everything and
have a good time no matter what the fuckwas going on.
It was the life of the party and alwayscheered people up.
And, but then, you know, you get into aplatoon and you start doing some pretty
serious training and dangerous things.
And.
And you start seeing sides of people whereyou're pushing the envelope in some of

(36:24):
these environments and it really revealsthe type of guy that everybody is.
And I will say, I mean, generallyspeaking, anybody that's even at that
position is going to be more of a warriorthan the rest of the population by quite a
bit.
But obviously, even within the confines ofa seal platoon, there are levels, you

(36:46):
know, in orders of magnitude in terms ofcaliber of men.
And very quickly, I realized two things.
One is that, you know, don't judge thatbook by its cover because dude, Glenn was
an absolute fucking monster when he neededto be, you know, in terms of that, like
warrior spirit and like would would justwould fucking take, you know, would give

(37:09):
his life, obviously, you know, in thefight for whatever cause, you know, we're
fighting for without question, likewithout pause, without any hesitation.
and was just fucking fearless, you know,and such an inspiration that way.
But also that that motherfucker was goodat everything.

(37:31):
You know, it was like, again, to look athim, you wouldn't think he's in the best
shape of the platoon.
I mean, not that he looked like a slouch,you know, but like he was the best
shooter.
He was in the best shape.
You know, it was just like...
Everything we did, it's like the firsttime he's doing something, he's doing it
better than guys who have done three orfour or five fucking deployments.

(37:51):
And everybody's just looking around like,what the fuck, you know?
And I remember the first time we gothazed, I was actually gone for it.
But I remember everybody telling the storyis that, you know, this big fucking dude,
you've done a couple of platoons, prettysalty guy, 60 gunner, just totally fucking
jacked, a lot bigger than Glenn.

(38:12):
And several of the other old guys go tohaze, all of them, and this guy grabs
Glen.
You know, Glen's a wrestler and a boxer, ascrapper, he's just a fucking feisty
Irish, you know, badass.
And basically just fucking grabs this dudeand like fucking, you know, does a duck
under and fucking gets around, gets him ina headlock and locks him up and he's just

(38:34):
like, motherfucker, just so you and I bothknow, like, I fucking own you right now.
And he's like,
Yep.
And then he's like, okay.
And he let him go and then let him hazehim.
You know, but he was like, he, he got thebest of this dude twice his size, like
multiple deployment fucking team guy.
and Glenn fucking owned him and then waslike, okay, like, I just want to hear you

(38:57):
say like, you're my fucking bitch rightnow.
And if you say that I'll let you go andI'll let you haze me.
But, you know,
ahead.
Hit me with a paddle, whatever the fuckyou want to do, but I already own you.
I kinda let him do it, you know, but,yeah, and it was like, but it was like
that with everything.
It was like, no matter what we were doing,it was like, that dude just fuckin' picked
it up right now and was fuckin' good atit, you know, and it was like, it was

(39:21):
sickening, you know?
And it was frustrating, because it waslike, you know, there's certain things
guys are good at, and, you know, otherthings they have to work hard or whatever,
and I'm not saying he didn't work hard,because he worked his ass off, but it just
seemed like...
made it look easy, but he put in the time.
I mean, he put in the hours to train and.
hard, hard worker, but...

(39:44):
Yeah, so I guess back to your question.
So very, very quickly, we all kind ofrealized like he was, you know, top notch
fucking dude and just was a huge asset.
He was a very gifted corpsman also.
And, you know, there's, you know, he wasolder than most of us new guys too.

(40:06):
And, and so they're.
had to beat by about four or five years,right?
I mean, he was eight years older than me.
Yeah, but yeah, so there was a componentof this fatherly figure to him too with
advice and the fact that he was a quorumis like you're hurt or sick.
It's like you go to Glenn and he's thatcomforting, like mother hen almost.

(40:28):
It was like.
say that when he's like dropping IVs oneveryone and dishing up penicillin
prescriptions, which was not uncommon backthen.
And I will say like, you know, I mean, heBorlai saved my fucking life.
Total like non -combat environment.
We were in our first platoon and Shane andI did a rock climbing trip to Red Rocks in

(40:54):
Vegas and on the way home.
We drove through Long John Silver's on theoutskirts of town.
It's right before they close.
The best time to buy seafood is in thedesert and right before they close.
And so I get fried clams.
And as soon as I start eating them,they're not even warm.

(41:15):
But I was just like, yeah, fuck it,whatever.
And I eat the whole thing.
And six hours later, by the time we gethome, I'm like, man, my fucking stomach is
not feeling great.
And...
Dude, I proceeded to get over the nextlike five days the sickest I've ever been
in my fucking life.
I don't know what was wrong with him orwhat it was, but I mean, dude, like I

(41:37):
would, I was living in Webb's fuckingguest house in his backyard, which didn't
have a kitchen.
It was a bedroom with his tiny little shithole bathroom.
I'm sure you charge you top dollar forthat too.
for sure.
You know, a hundred percent he did.
I mean, he was making hand over, moneyhand over fist with that place.
He charged his girlfriend who ended upbecoming his wife rent at that place.
But, anyway, so I'm there and it's like,you know, it took everything I could do

(42:03):
to, to crawl to the bathroom to throw up.
And then I would be like face down on thetile in the bathroom, like arms around the
toilet for an hour before I could getenough strength to crawl half ass back to
bed.
And then, you know,
For five days I did that.
I lost like 30 fucking pounds.
But after, no, like after a day, day and ahalf, then Glenn actually came out to

(42:28):
check on me and brought IVs and, I mean,no shit, like if he hadn't brought IVs and
he came back every day, like twice a day,drove way the fuck out into the college
area from Coronado to check on me, give mean IV and make sure I was all right and
did it for four or five days in a row.
Had he not done that, I mean, fuck, Idon't know, man.

(42:49):
Like, I was on death's door and I couldn'thold any fluids down and nobody else was
checking on me.
So, I mean, that amount of time.
Like what you just said, like that wasGlenn, like we have this local friend here
in Encinitas, this woman named ChristineReed.
And after Glenn died, I remember she like,came up to me and started talking to me

(43:10):
about Glenn.
And I like Christine, I've known her forforever.
And we all trained together seal fittingall that stuff.
And she'd had like a, you know, prettymangling shoulder surgery and Glenn just
out of nowhere, he can't do anything forher goes, goes to the hospital, checks on
her like, Hey, how are you doing?
What can I do for you?
Like,
you know, what do you need?
Like no one for that entire community wentand checked on her.

(43:31):
And she's like, to this day is still it'slike, you know, that was Glenn, like it
had such a major impact on her life.
Like, of course he did that for you.
Of course he did.
Like he wouldn't know any other wayexcept, Hey, Mike didn't make it to work
today.
yeah.
he's sick.
Well, fuck, I better go check on him.
And I'm going to bring my bag of goodieswith me and give him an IV and make sure

(43:52):
you know, he's pulled it back.
Yeah, I mean, just, he was just that guy,you know, and I mean, you do it for
anybody.
And I think that's why, you know, he madeeverybody feel like he was their best
friend because he was that good attreating them so well, you know, and I
think that's really the key, key part ofthat is why so many people, you know,

(44:15):
considered him their best friend isbecause of the way he treated them, you
know, and there's just nothing like it,you know.
No, I couldn't agree more.
So you guys end up in the same platoonover those couple of years.
Was USS Cole your first deploymenttogether?

(44:35):
What was your guys first?
Yeah, it was our first one.
So we did, it was a bit of a world tourbecause we started, we flew to Hawaii,
spent some time there and flew toKwajalein and Guam and then ultimately to
Hawaii.
We were there for like a month and then werode a boat from Hawaii to Bahrain.

(44:56):
When we were in Bahrain, that's when thecold happened.
So we'd jump on the taro, we'd go down.
sit on the coal for two months, then wentfrom there to Dubai for like a month, and
then to Thailand, to Hong Kong, back toHawaii, and then home.
So it was like we had this big fuckingworld tour that was pretty cool that he

(45:17):
and I were on together.
Yeah, the coal was wild.
I mean, it was kind of our first glimpseat Al Qaeda and Bin Laden prior to 9 -11.
It was kind of a window into...
that organization and what theirintentions were and it was pretty dicey
but it was a wild couple of months havingto guard that thing for sure.

(45:42):
I'll bet.
You mentioned Thailand.
You mentioned bounce around there.
Any odds of that happening with Glenn overthere?
Or was it all just, nope, early to bed?
And you know.
yeah, I think I think we all know betterthan that.
I will say myself, Shane and Van, ourAOIC, we actually took a six hour cab

(46:06):
ride.
We pulled into Phuket, the ship did, andso then it was, you know, like cockroaches
scattering.
Most of the platoons stayed in Phuket.
The three of us took this long cab ride toPP Island and went rock climbing for like
four days.
nice.
I actually did you know all of the storiesI had for for Glenn or from Glenn were

(46:28):
kind of third -hand You know because ofcourse right when we get back on the ship
everybody's hung over except us I mean wedidn't drink much.
We you know again we rock climbing but Youknow the very first thing was all these
stories about crazy shit and one of themfor sure was You know Glenn, you know
somebody's seeing him on the back of afucking moped with

(46:50):
you know, like a tie hooker or somethingdriving and he's like hanging on, you
know, like just, it's like fucking where'sWaldo?
You know, it's like, yeah, so, yeah, Imean, he just, he was that guy, you know,
but yeah, you'd have to ask, you know,some of the other guys that stayed with
him, because I know there were some crazystories, but I wasn't there for him.

(47:13):
always understood it was actually Brandonon the back of the moped and that Glenn
had ditched him and kind of said, Hey man,like you're warned that that's all I
understood.
It was that Glenn was there to be like,Hey man, I'm, I'm giving you a good option
here.
And if you don't, you don't listen, I'mnot going to force you off the moped.
You get, you're an adult, you're a grownass man.

(47:34):
You're going to make up your own mind, butyou might want to check that package.
Yeah, I'm sure you're right.
It was still a cool trip.
I can't really share the story from HongKong, unfortunately.
I'll share it with you.
You probably have already heard it.

(47:55):
We're good on that front.
I think for this audience, I'd shift moreto any moments.
Because I remember Glenn, I'm sure there'smore from when you guys were deployed and
when you guys were working together.
But I really loved how motivated he was toand was always backing you up when you

(48:15):
were first getting out and going into dogwork.
I remember you sitting on our couch whenwe were roommates in like, 09.
whatever, 2010, and you'd come into townwith a new dog and it was like his level
of encouragement.
And you guys would sit there for like aday and a half and just like full life
catch up.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it was, it wasawesome, you know, and, you know, not a

(48:39):
surprise, but classic Glenn, like just,you know, always rooting for you and
anything he can do to help, he would doit.
And, you know, at that time, you know,what, one of the things it's, that's still
kind of haunts me a little bit to this dayis, you know, at that time he had done
some of the, the GRS stuff and,

(49:02):
When they were launching that new pro,this new program of like a direct hire
program, he actually asked me to go do itwith him.
He's like, Hey, we're doing this pilotprogram.
They're only doing like a handful of guys.
And they asked me and a handful of otherdudes to bring one guy with us to go
through this course.
And he's like, you know, would you do itwith me?

(49:23):
And I was like, man, I'd love to, but Ijust started this business.
Like I can't do three months gone and in amonth home, I was like,
You know, I gotta be here, you know,burning at both ends, totally funneled
into this business or it's not gonna work.
I just can't do it right now.
But I was like, but do you remember Ty?

(49:44):
Like the three of us, you know, took atrip down to Mexico a couple of years ago
and I was working with Ty at the time as abugs instructor.
So I actually introduced Ty and Glenn.
And I was like, hey, you know, Ty is justgetting out as we speak and asked me if I
knew of any work, you know, you know, letme give you his number.

(50:06):
I would bet he would do it with you.
And you remember we hung out and had agood time and he was like, yeah, give me
his number.
So it was like, I connected those dots,you know, and then both of them ended up
dying in Benghazi.
And of course, you know, it was part of methat thinks like,
Almost similar to like missing a flightthat crashed like if I had said yes Would

(50:28):
have been Glenn and I you know, I don'tknow maybe Yeah, I mean you would never
know but Yeah Yeah, well that then justit's like fuck I introduced the two of
them and then they end up You know forthis job and then that job they end up,

(50:51):
you know
Benghazi happens on it, you know, sothat's something that, you know, ever
since then, you know, I'm not going to sayit, you know, haunts me at night and I
don't sleep over it, but it's still, it'sabsolutely still something that I think
about regularly that, that's just kind ofhard to fucking swallow, you know, but.
I mean, I would say look at they they knewwhat they were getting themselves into.

(51:12):
And you know that but it doesn't changethe fact that you did connect those dots.
And you're going to feel that way.
I mean, I could tell you a million waysover now, Mike, that you know, that that
doesn't make any sense.
Like they were going to do what they weregoing to do.
If Glenn hadn't called tie, someone elsewas and you know, he was in that perfect
position then to take on that job and dothat work.
So he was heading there one way or theother, you just happen to be the one to

(51:35):
open the door.
Yeah, and I know all that, which I thinkis the difference between it really
gnawing at me and becoming a problemversus not.
But it's still something I do think about,and it's just kind of a shitty thing to
consider and realize.

(51:55):
But I mean, I thought that's life.
But I also think, to the losing friendsthing, that it's something I get asked a
lot.
You know doing the podcast and peoplewriting and you know whether it's emails
or DMS or whatever Of guys that are likeyou know hey, I just lost you know one of
my closest friends You know whether it wasa combat thing or a car accident or you

(52:19):
know whatever drug overdose You know I'mhaving a real hard time with it, and you
know you have any advice like I knowyou've lost a lot of friends blah blah
blah For me the answer has always beenreally simple and it started because of
Glenn and Ty frankly is that
You know, I remember after it happened,and I mean, it rocked all of us, it still

(52:39):
does to this day.
But as soon as I started feeling kind ofsorry for myself, you know, and going down
that dangerous road of finding adistraction, you know, Glenn in
particular, you know, I thought about himand to your point earlier, like, what
would Glenn do?

(53:00):
You know, and it was very, very apparentto me in thinking,
You know, a lot of people feel sorry forthemselves and they do dumb shit and they
kind of sulk and they let themselves goand they, you know, treat their family
like shit and it's all because they'redepressed because they lost somebody.
And I wonder if Glenn was, you know,whether he's looking down or with that

(53:24):
motherfucker, maybe he's looking up, youknow, that's a toss of a coin.
Or from the side, fucking whatever.
If he has the wherewithal, and if he waslooking down, seeing me and any of us
acting that way, feeling sorry, drinking,and being a fucking turd, how would he

(53:50):
feel about that?
And it's a real easy fucking answer isthat he'd reach through the afterworld and
he would slap the fuck out of you fordoing that.
So to me, it's like...
Well, there's your answer, you know, solike be grateful that you still have this
opportunity that your best friend nowdoesn't have.

(54:11):
And instead of ruining that and pissing itaway, take advantage and make that
motherfucker proud by living every fuckingday that you have that he doesn't to its
fullest in his honor.
You know, and that's it.
Like that's all you need to think about.
And so...
hold yourself accountable in the dayswhere you start wavering, slap yourself

(54:34):
and think like, dude, I owe it to that guyto fucking not do this and make him proud.
And that's it, you know?
Well, it's funny because like, you know,TJ, my business partner and I were like,
when TJ and I connected and we're like,Hey, we got this idea.
And, you know, and I said, well, we got tocall it bubs.
We got to call this, this nutrition brandbubs.

(54:56):
I mean, you were my first call.
Like it was like, call Kate, call Barbara,the family call Mike.
And I just, I remember like,
Yo, you and Shane and Clint were the threeguys that I called that I knew the best.
So I had your numbers and it's like, Heyguys, what do you think about this?
And you were just like, you didn't mincewords as you never do.

(55:16):
Glenn would kick your ass.
If you don't do bubs, you have to do this.
And I was like, fuck, I don't know a thingabout this with nutrition and putting
powder in jars.
I figured out.
Last time I was moving powder, I ended upgetting arrested for it.
I never got arrested.

(55:38):
I never got arrested.
As far as you know.
But yeah, like that was it.
It was like, you know, like you can't notdo this.
Like go take a swing, go, I can go for it.
That's what we're here for.
Glenn would want you to do it, you know,so.

(55:59):
let's make, so I, so I've got, actuallyI'm going to, before I go into, I have a
couple of rapid fire questions for you,but before I go into those, any last
stories about G that they like, kind oflike jump out at you that you go, man,
this one time, holy shit.
that, that you're allowed to say, ofcourse.
I mean, I'm trying to think, you know,ones that I didn't share the last time

(56:22):
versus now or whatever.
I mean, it's hard to even kind of graspthat one because, you know, it's like
every memory I have of him is just so, sogood.
One that I haven't shared though, and it'sactually the last time that I saw him.
You know, I was out staying with him andhis girlfriend at the time.

(56:45):
And we walked the boardwalk of where theylived and he was like, hey, have you ever
done yoga?
I was like, fuck no.
Now keep in mind, this is like 09.
I was like, no, I haven't done yoga.
Have you?
You fucking turd?
And he's like, yeah, I do it all the time.
I was like, dude, that's fucking, that'spretty gay.
And he's like, shut up, come with me.

(57:06):
I was like, whatever.
If Glenn's dragging me to the, whatever.
And of course, Glenn being Glenn, heknows.
everybody there, everybody fucking lovesthem and there's like 30 tens, you know,
classic Southern California, like highcaliber talent ladies there in spandex and
a fucking sports bra sweating their assesoff.

(57:29):
And of course he puts us in the back inthe middle, you know, and, and I was just
like, you know, like, you know, if youwould ask me like, Hey, do you want to do
this?
Anybody else would ask me to do that?
I'd be like, fuck no, I'm not doing it.
But it's like, dude, if Glen is saying,hey, come do this with me, like, it's
gonna be a good time.
And it was, and it was awesome.

(57:50):
I haven't done it since, but you know, itwas cool.
And you know, it's just, to me, that kindof, I think, summarizes just, you know,
like, it doesn't matter what you're doing.
You know, if Glen's organizing it anddragging you along on something, like, you
can guarantee it's gonna be a good time nomatter what it is.

(58:11):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Hands down.
I absolutely love that.
Like I went to so many hot yoga classeswith him and like I'd never done yoga
before Glenn.
And he's like, we're going to yoga.
I mean, he would go to yoga classes, thengo and do CrossFit classes, which is like
the total opposite.
You'd get all Zen doubt and some hot yogaclass and just come in and jack a barbell.

(58:32):
I'm just like, the fuck?
Yeah, you're doing it in reverse order.
But as
more of a challenge.
So you enjoyed it that way.
Plus, you know, get a little fired up,look at all those yoga pants and then go
and lift some weights right afterwards.
You get a little motivation there.
That is amazing because I know exactlywhere he took you.
I know exactly the studio and and thatthat whole space, man.

(58:56):
That's freaking great.
All right.
So if you're up for it, a couple of rapidfire questions, easy ones, layups, if you
will.
First question, what was your first job?
I worked at a pancake house washingdishes.
Village Inn in Waterloo, Iowa is just likea greasy spoon diner.
They didn't let you flip flapjacks.

(59:16):
You didn't graduate to that job.
You just washed dishes.
I started to and then the swim seasonstarted and so I stopped working there.
Like I started out washing dishes and thenI bussed tables and then they were gonna
have me start doing some cooking dutiesand then it was time to move on.
But I will say at that time, like I was,you know, 16 year old metabolism through

(59:38):
the roof couldn't gain weight.
And I, as a dishwasher, like they'd bring,you know, they'd push this big fucking
cart with shit all over it.
Dude, I would eat so much food off of thedishes, like bacon, French toast.
I mean, like, dude, I ate.
Yeah.

(59:59):
Like bacon, yeah.
Anything that didn't have a bite taken outof it, dude, I'm eating it.
Like I ate probably 9 ,000 calories pershift when I worked there.
Like I just ate everything.
That is fucking great.
Listen, I was a Hobart technician atSnowbird and I'd be lying if I didn't say
some pieces of food would slide across andyou're like going to scrape a plate and

(01:00:22):
you're just like, that nugget is totallyuntouched.
I'm in on it.
want food to go to waste.
No, you're an environmentalist, Mike.
That's what you do.
I mean, so yeah.
You care.
If that was your first job, what would yousay is your dream job?
Because you might be doing it.

(01:00:42):
I'm doing it.
I mean, you know, at the risk of soundinglike an asshole, if I won the lottery, I
would do exactly what I do now.
I would hire a few more people to do someof the things I enjoy a little less.
But even that, I mean, there's, you know,like, there's certain things that I just
enjoy doing that are part of the processwith dog training or like even picking up

(01:01:06):
dog shit, you know, it's like,
A lot of people around here, like there'sall these companies that come and pick up
dog shit.
Like I enjoy doing it.
Not that I like dog shit, but I also, youknow, especially owning a dog food
company, like I want to know that theconsistency is there, that there's no
crazy shit going on.
And so yeah, like when I pick it up, likeI'm checking it out and making sure that

(01:01:30):
everything is in good working order,digestive system wise and whatever, but.
interest there.
I mean, literally having a dog foodcompany, like it's funny.
I, I kin that to mowing the lawn, right?
Like there's lawn mowing services all upand down.
I will never hire a lawn mower to mow mylawn and to like, to maintain my space.
Like that's my job.

(01:01:51):
I love doing it.
It's like a Zen like state of doing thatat the same time.
Yeah.
You got to pick up some dog shit in thefront yard.
And it's, it's people are funny about thatbecause I'll be like, like my friend's dog
will shit on the yard.
I'm like, you need a bag like in there.
kind of want to have.
I'm like, I'll take care of it.
They're like, you're gonna touch my dog'sshit.
I'm like, dude, I got a glove on and like,I don't really care.

(01:02:11):
It's just gonna go in my trash bin overhere.
Like, wow, man, like, it's not, it's notthat taboo, guys.
We all got kids that are shitting all overthe place.
This is a lot easier.
so I mean, yeah, and it's not like thatshit's any dirtier than your own.
I mean, it's not yours, but it's the sameamount of filth.
But anyway, I mean, yeah, I just like, Ido genuinely really enjoy what I do.

(01:02:36):
Yeah, I mean, if I won, you know, $400million powerball, like, I'd still do what
I do now.
And probably about as much as I do.
Well, but you also have enoughstimulation, right?
Between the foundation, the dog foodcompany, training dogs, like actually
being in the training world and thepodcast.

(01:02:56):
I mean, the podcast alone offers such anamazing amount of human interaction and
storytelling and just like, it's just awealth of knowledge waiting to happen.
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, you know, I mean, at this point,it's worth doing financially.
But even if it wasn't, I would still do itbecause I enjoy it.

(01:03:17):
You know, I really do.
And to me, it's there's a huge honor forme in the caliber of people that are
willing to, you know, carve time out oftheir schedule and travel here and sit
down and allow me to ask them whatever Iwant for as long as I want.
Yeah.
You know, I mean, to me, like that's a bigfucking deal to me.

(01:03:38):
And I don't take it lightly.
I put a lot of time into it and I doreally, really enjoy it.
And I also find it very fulfilling on theback end of messages that I get from
people that certain episodes resonate withor one thing that a guest said that
changed their life or saved it even.

(01:03:59):
I mean, I've gotten...
a lot of messages from people like, youhad this guest on, you guys are talking
about this, and I was in a really darkplace, and I was about ready to kill
myself, and something that one of yourguests said, and they'll quote it and be
like, that was a turning point catalystfor me, and now I'm here because of that.
It's just like, dude, the gravity of thatis hard to get your arms around.

(01:04:23):
And so for me, I just, again, I feel...
very honored to be in the position to evenbe able to do it.
Yeah, that I mean, that's a huge statementright there.
And now that you've said somethingincredibly impactful like that, I'm going
to totally switch gears on you and ask youthe next question, which is, I need you to

(01:04:44):
rank three things, you're going to rankthem from best to worst salsa, queso,
guacamole.
Mmm, best to worst queso, salsa,guacamole.
It's written all over your face, man.
Got you there.
You handed me that.

(01:05:06):
What's your Chipotle order?
You go to Chipotle, what are you getting?
I don't go there.
So, I mean, I'm trying to think, it'sprobably been at least 10 years since I've
eaten there.
And it's not that I, huh?
No, like I don't even have a problem withthem.
It's that where I live and the places thatI go, like I don't even know where their

(01:05:31):
one is near here.
Like I know that they exist.
I think Greenville, honestly, maybe.
hanging out in San Diego, man.
They're on every frickin corner out here.
I imagine where you are, you have suchauthentic, proper Mexican that they're
just not even going to mess with that.
They're like, we don't want to go there.
mean, so this is probably gonna soundcrazy, but I either want like, dude barely

(01:05:56):
speaks English taking my order, right?
Authentic.
Or fucking Taco Bell.
Like, not even food.
Total like I'm shit -faced, guiltypleasure.
This is gonna fuck me up as much as thedrinking did, but I'm gonna do it anyway.
You know, that's what it is.
Yeah.
Fucking hey, it is.

(01:06:16):
You know, so yeah, I just don't eat there.
I mean, like I know what they have.
I mean, if I was gonna eat there, I'dprobably get a bowl, you know, with like a
mix of chicken, steak, guacamole, salsa,fucking, you know, maybe some corn or
what, you know, I don't know.
Like it would be a...
fucking queso there, otherwise that wouldhave been on the top of the list.
Yeah, well, I mean, you can make your own.

(01:06:37):
Microwave it.
Throw a bunch of cheese on there, put somesalsa on it, and microwave it.
Or it's Texas, just set it on the hood ofyour car for 30 seconds.
You are in that time of year.
You are in that time of year.
Give me some hobbies, interests, anythingthat people don't ever see on social media
from you, like stuff that you just do thatpeople be like, shit, I would never know
that.

(01:06:57):
I mean, I talk about it, but jujitsu andriding motorcycles.
I don't post much about it or talk muchabout it.
I talk a little bit about jujitsu in thepodcast and a little bit about bikes, but
those two things, like if I have freetime, that's what I'm doing, you know,
100%.
You know, it's like, I call it that.

(01:07:21):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so the way I usually kind of,
I guess is the days that I don't do jiu-jitsu I lift in my garage and the days
that I have like I do a very specificmorning routine that does involve some
some mobility stuff and some working outsome you know work in a heavy bag.

(01:07:46):
No yoga even if it was I would say thatit's not but just because it's fucking
yoga and and I'm not wearing spandex so Ithink like that is one prerequisite.
But.
is what people don't see.
So you could be, you could be running fullspandex and no one's, no one's the wiser.
pink fucking leg warmers in my drivewaydoing yoga.

(01:08:11):
But yeah, so, you know, and I will say Ido take a couple days off a week.
It's usually Wednesday and Sunday.
Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, andthen Saturday I may hit an open mat with
Jiu Jitsu or maybe do something active inthe afternoon or something like that.
But do you ride motorcycle at all?
for having much.

(01:08:32):
no.
I mean, I rode them for years and then I,it was all like motocross, like off -road
stuff.
I never got into street bikes.
I had like a Honda CR 500 or somethinglike way back when.
And that was the last time like.
Yeah, so like on a Saturday, I may go fora long ride, which, you know, isn't like a

(01:08:52):
CrossFit workout physical, but it'sfucking physical.
You know, it's for like, and even before Iever rode, I never really thought of
riding a motorcycle as being an active,you know, activity, but it is, I mean,
it's not like brutal, but if you go for acouple hour ride, and especially if you're
on a sport bike and, and pushing it kindof hard, it's, it's pretty physical.

(01:09:14):
So I'll do something like that.
And then maybe just.
Fuck around in the gym, you know, justkind of throwing a few sets together or
whatever.
But yeah, I mean, that's kind of how Iorganize my workouts.
And both the motorcycles, you know, forme, you know, I'm busy enough to wear
between the dogs and just, you know, kidsand everything else.
Like it's, it's pretty difficult for me totravel from a vacation standpoint, like to

(01:09:39):
travel for work and you know, whateverthan it is what it is.
Even that I do way less traveling than Iused to now on purpose.
But so for me, like my...
of my questions was where do you go whenyou want to go somewhere?
What's a dream destination for you next?
I would say Europe.

(01:10:02):
I haven't spent a ton of time there.
I want to really spend a lot of time inthe Scandinavian countries because that's
kind of all of my heritage is pretty heavyon the Viking side.
So I'd like to spend some time there.
I would like to go to Italy and hit.
I do have a...
if you want to call it a coupon, aninvitation, an allowance or an allocation

(01:10:26):
to go to the Ducati track, it's calledMugello, and actually ride on the Ducati
track.
I want to go to the Ferrari Museum, theDucati Museum, the plants.
I'd love to visit all that and spend sometime in Italy just doing the Italy things.
to.
It's funny where we're, we're, you know,Heather and I are married 10 years this

(01:10:48):
year.
So we're planning our 10 year anniversaryand we picked like, Hey, let's go to
Mexico to this one bougie hotel.
Let's go back to Kauai and hike a volcano.
Let's go here.
Like we've just been spit balling ideas,but the one that keeps sticking out is
let's fly to Rome, go to Naples, hikeMount Vesuvius, go to the Amalfi coast.
Like just.
out with the Pope, because you're such aCatholic religious bastard.

(01:11:17):
Yeah, so for me, my youngest is just, it'ssummer as of today for her.
She has one year of high school left.
And so for the last handful of years,that's just kind of been my MO is like,
hey, maximize time with the kids.
Once...

(01:11:37):
you know, number two is, is graduated andout of the nest, then I'll do some
traveling, you know, and I'll probablytake, you know, take them with me on some
of it.
but I just, you know, like I didn't wantto, because for me, like if I'm going to
go there or when I'm going to go there, Iwant it to be relatively or completely

(01:11:57):
unrestricted.
Like I don't want time to be a factor.
I don't want costs to be a factor.
Like I want no limitations.
I want, I want the experience.
kind of of a lifetime and however long Ihave to wait until that's possible, I'll
wait, you know, cause like that wouldwork.
with all the business stuff and everythingthat's happening.
But you're stacking chips in the meantime,and making sure that when that happens,

(01:12:20):
you can meet all those criteria.
And that's, that's a great way ofapproaching it.
And look, it's not like there's no travelin the meantime, there's, there's always,
there's always something.
Yeah, yeah.
And yeah, so for me, like, Intel, that's areality.
For me, I take many vacations every dayfor 20 or 30 minutes when I jump on a
motorcycle.
Like, for me, that's what it is, you know?

(01:12:42):
And it's similar to Jiu -Jitsu in thatit's like an active form of meditation
because, you know, in Jiu -Jitsu,everything else goes away and you're
focused on keeping somebody fromstrangling you and that's all you're
focused on.
So you're not thinking about anythingelse.
On a motorcycle, it's the same thing.
It's like, you know, if you're on thatbike, it's like your eyeballs are scanning

(01:13:05):
in front of you and you're thinking aboutyour body position.
You're thinking about the wind.
You're thinking about traffic.
You're thinking about, you know, shiftingand breaking and leaning and, you know,
curves coming up, obstacles coming, youknow, whatever.
And so like, you're not thinking ofanything else.
And I find both satisfaction and from amental health standpoint, a lot of

(01:13:27):
benefit.
in both of those activities for thatreason.
Like I'm not big on meditating in terms ofsitting there and meditating.
I much prefer active meditation, which tome I consider that those, that activity.
So I...
meditation that's like a bunch of woo woostuff where you think, transcendental,

(01:13:47):
like you're going to close your eyes andgo to the ethereal plane.
And like, are you doing that?
Are you just taking a nap?
I talk about it a lot because I meditateevery single morning, but it's an active
type of meditation called Zazen.
It's like 10 minutes sitting in a kneelingposition, but you're like, your eyes are
open.
Like you're, you're focusing on a specificarea and you don't want not to get all

(01:14:11):
into it, but it's like it's a way to clearyour head and clear your mind.
And you're not to not focus on anythingelse.
If you're on a motorcycle,
It's kind of the same thing, you know?
And that's why I enjoy it.
I mean, you know, my understanding ofmeditation, and I have done it, is yeah,
it's that.
And so to me, like any activity that youcan do, and there's a lot of them, you

(01:14:33):
know, where you have to have a singularfocus and think about absolutely nothing
else except one thing, I think isbeneficial, you know?
And for me, I love jujitsu and writing,and so to me, it's kind of...
kind of two birds with one stone, but Iknow the mental balancing out that I get

(01:14:53):
from both of those activities issignificant.
And I also very, very easily recognize theabsence of doing those and the role that
it plays, the impact that it has on me.
And that's how I know it's beneficial, isthat if I'm not doing it, I know I start
to fucking go down and like I need thatkind of.

(01:15:15):
You think of like a pressure cooker, it'slike that relief valve.
I'm blowing fucking steam off with both ofthose things, you know, so.
I completely resemble that and that's likethat's fitness for me.
That's all those little things that youjust need to just keep that, keep certain
buckets full.
You want that bucket full, you don't emptyanother bucket to make that bucket full.
You're always finding balance in there,but yeah, that's a, that's a big one.

(01:15:38):
And it's funny cause that ties into one ofthe other questions was, you know, what
are you, what are you doing to relax?
And that's obviously a key part of it.
yeah, I mean, for me, I'm on the relaxedside.
There is a very different component.
I don't consider jiu -jitsu and ridingbikes relaxing.
But I like I don't go out ever.

(01:16:00):
I mean, I love going to movies.
That's the one kind of going out thingthat that I've always loved, you know,
taking the kids to.
And I mean, I remember we saw Endgametogether with Shane and it was UTJ Shane
and I.
and almost getting into a fight afterwardsbut Shane, Shane running his fucking mouth

(01:16:21):
almost gets us into a fight with somebodyelse.
Anyway, that's it.
For me it's like if I do have free timeand I'm not doing jujitsu or riding and I
just want to fucking relax, like for meit's take a shower, crank the fucking AC
down to where I like I want to be insweatpants and a fucking sweatshirt.
Like it's that cold in my house.

(01:16:43):
putting either fucking the office orsomething that I enjoy watching on TV,
ordering food and just fucking sittingthere and enjoying that.
To me, that is my ideal relax time forsure.
Like I hate.
going back to like the, the, the, the, themeditation, motorcycle riding, jujitsu,

(01:17:06):
like those active things that you can doto kind of keep your head in check is not
your relaxation.
Relaxation comes as a result of being ableto do that and move to that place because
you've managed yourself, you know, inthese other areas.
yeah, it's like there's life.
I do those things to clear my mind andthen I wind down with food and the office

(01:17:27):
usually.
that's awesome.
One last one for you.
What's the best piece of advice you'veever received?
Like something you would just share withfolks.
it's actually, it's, I mean, I would sayit's a life piece of advice and I've
gotten it from so many different people,that I would consider it, you know, the,

(01:17:48):
the single best piece of advice that I'vegotten and, and that I give people, which
is, and it probably sounds very cliche,especially coming from the seal community
and maybe, you know, overdone oroversimplified, but just fucking never,
ever giving up ever like,
no matter what, like have your goals anddo not allow anything to stop you from

(01:18:13):
achieving them.
I've been very fortunate in sellingpersonal protection dogs to high net worth
folks over the last 15 years.
Some of these individuals are householdnames, whether they're entertainers,
whether they're CFOs of multi -billiondollar corporations, you name it.
and but the common denominator that theyall have is obviously that they're

(01:18:37):
supremely successful and Number two isthat they all have that same piece of
advice is that the difference between meand Any other guy like me that didn't make
it and now is working for somebody elsefor 90 grand a year is that he fucking
quit and I didn't And that's it.
You know guys that you know arebillionaires now that have

(01:18:59):
been bankrupt seven times, you know, beendivorced twice, you know, fucking had
nothing and had to, you know, put theirpower bill on a fucking credit card with 0
% interest and then moving it to anothercard to avoid interest, borrowing money
from family like it had all just had, youknow, their legs swept out from under them

(01:19:19):
over and over and over and over and justnever fucking stopped trying to become
successful.
I mean, every one of them.
has stories that you're just like, dude,most people would have fucking quit way
before, you know, way before, you know,and, and they just never did.
You know, and to me that that's the thingis like, just never give up no matter

(01:19:42):
what.
Like it doesn't matter.
I don't care if you get cancer, you know,your fucking wife leaves you and was
banging your best friend and the kidsprefer him over you.
I mean, I don't give a shit how bad yourlife is.
Like just no matter what.
fucking pick yourself up and fucking divehead first into going forward.
Never quit.
Yeah, I mean, I know it's like, it's toosimple, but...

(01:20:04):
No, but there's layers and layers to it.
Because anyone could listen to that andsay, well, what about this?
What about this?
The fact is, well, yeah, but what if youdon't quit?
Yeah.
It's like, because, you know, and that's,you know, whether like that's a recurring
theme in jujitsu of whether or not totrain or not, you know, and, you know,

(01:20:27):
it's like 10 years from now, right?
It's going to be 10 years from now.
Okay.
That 10 years is going to happen whetheryou do everything or you do nothing, you
know, so if you start training 10 yearsfrom now, you'll probably be a black belt.
and you're gonna be a bad motherfucker,right?
If you don't, 10 years is gonna go by andyou're gonna be like, fuck, you know, if I

(01:20:50):
had done that when I thought about it, I'dbe a bad motherfucker right now.
Instead, I'm on blood pressure meds and Ican't get laid, you know?
So fucking pick one, you know?
It's like, now is the time.
I don't care what the thing is, like justdo it and don't fucking quit.
Yeah, hands down.
It's actually, it's funny you say thatbecause it's always just like, I've been

(01:21:13):
reading a couple of books about likedifferent goals to set.
And Michael Easter is a guy I've gotten toknow a little bit.
And he started talking about doingmisogis.
He's like, don't die, but go do somethingthat really challenges yourself that you
just, you might not make it.
You just might not succeed.
And so not don't quit, but he's like, butchallenge yourself, push yourself to that
far the spot that you can and like getuncomfortable.

(01:21:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
of not quitting is like, well, that's whatyou need a mindset about not quitting to
even get to that space where you canchallenge yourself.
I like that.
human beings are designed to have somestruggle.
The people who are the most miserable aregenerally people with the easiest fucking

(01:21:59):
life.
It makes them depressed because there's nochallenge, which ultimately ends up being
there's no real purpose or fulfillmentbecause...
Everything's fucking handed to them orlike there's just there's nothing for them
to have to overcome, you know And that'scool for about two weeks and then it's
fucking boring and then it's dangerous,you know, so

(01:22:21):
Yep.
That's when sabotage can roll right on inthere.
So don't quit.
Good stuff.
So Mike, thank you for joining us today.
And if people want to learn more about youand what you're up to, the fourth
bestselling book pending, where can wetake them to?

(01:22:41):
I don't think, I doubt that I'll writeanything else, but I did it, I enjoyed it.
I don't see myself doing that.
I mean, never say never, but I doubt thatyou'll see any more publications coming
from me.
You save it out for Clint.
He's got a few more chambered up.

(01:23:01):
For sure, yeah.
I mean, fucking Shane should write a book,you know, but I don't know if the world
can handle what Shane would write in abook, but which is why he should write
like.
fourth book that didn't make it to the NewYork times bestseller list that I've been
wanting to talk to you about for ages.
So, you know, I feel like he'd be rightthere in that category.

(01:23:22):
yeah, absolutely.
that's good stuff.
So literally on social media, just at MikeRitland.
It was, it's a at Ritland and that'severything basically.
But I mean, it really, if you just fuckingGoogle my name, all that stuff will come
up.
I mean, if you go to team dog .pet, that'swhere all the training and food and treats

(01:23:44):
and stuff is at a warrior dog foundation.org for the foundation and supporting
that.
And then yeah, just at Ritland or MikeRitland on any social media platform will
land you on any of my.
on Instagram folks are going to be, aretracking and following it.
This has been awesome.
So as always folks, thank you forlistening.
And Mike, thank you for being here.

(01:24:06):
I appreciate you having me.
One last thing, I did start a Patreon pagethat does give people a lot of kind of,
you know, the things that you didn't knowI do and it's kind of more of an inside
look.
There's a lot of behind the scenes podcaststuff and, you know, extra conversations
that we have in the studio, outside of thestudio, as well as just kind of some of

(01:24:27):
the day to day shit that I have going on,if you want.
But that Patreon link is on, you know, theYouTube channel and every other.
You can find it from any other socialmedia platform.
hands down.
I actually didn't know you had that.
And that is fricking rad because like yousee what the shows you have, whether it's
two hours or four hours long, but the ideaof like, no, no, there's more.

(01:24:51):
And you know, this is where we talk abouta bunch of whatever or Hey, we're going to
go do a workout over here or just grab anextra stuff.
That's awesome.
I mean like you know if I have jujitsuguys on like we'll train and show some of
that or You know guys that are into carsor bikes, you know, we'll do do some of
that mess around or yeah Like if it'ssomething that's maybe a little You know

(01:25:13):
that they don't it's not something thatthey would want on a normal podcast But
they want to talk about it then if it'sbehind that paywall, you know then then
that kind of helps people open up a littlebit to shit that maybe they didn't want to
talk about but
And maybe it's at.
I mean, to me, it's...
I mean, the stuff that I put on there iswhat most people put on Instagram for

(01:25:34):
free.
But I'm a more private person than a lotof people, I think, and I like to keep
that kind of...
Like, if I'm gonna show you that, youknow, like, I'd kind of like to know who
you are, you know, and you have to sign upand actually, you know, have access to
that.
Yeah, there's...
exchange of values there, right?
And like, Hey, who are you?

(01:25:55):
What are you doing?
And like, you're going to know quick, theystart asking you like wacky questions.
You'd be like, I don't need you in here,but the right folks that really appreciate
it.
I wouldn't say it's impossible, but it'sway harder to be an anonymous troll on
Patreon, because you've got to use acredit card, and they have a process of
even signing up that, to a certain level,makes you identify yourself.

(01:26:20):
And so there's that component of it, butthere's another component of just like...
you know, that kind of Kardashian self-importance that, you know, it's like,
here's what I'm eating for breakfast andhere's the shit that I took and, you know,
this is my workout.
You know, it's like, fuck man, like dothat many people really give a shit what
you had for breakfast?
Maybe they do.

(01:26:41):
But for me, like, I'm not gonna justdiarrhea all over my Instagram feed with
my entire life, like it's a reality show,you know?
And so.
if I'm gonna offer any type of insightinto my life on a personal level, like
it's gonna be on a smaller platform whereit's a more kind of intimate exchange

(01:27:04):
between myself and the guests.
Like I do a monthly call with them.
I did one just a couple days ago andthat's cool.
who's in the Patreon kind of jumps on acall and they have the ability to zoom in
and have a conversation.
Yeah, so we jump on a Zoom and there'sthree tiers.
It's for only the tier three members.

(01:27:26):
But yeah, if you're a tier three member,you get a Zoom invite, we jump on a Zoom
call, and now you guys get to ask mewhatever you want, whether it's dog
training advice, whether it's podcaststuff, whether, you know, anything.
And to me, that's cool.
It's like you get to see and meet fans andsupporters of the show, and you give them
a chance to fucking ask me whatever theywant.

(01:27:47):
And I like that.
But I wouldn't want to do that onInstagram with hundreds of thousands of
people in a live stream.
I want a much smaller group of people thatyou can actually kind of interact with.
Yeah, well, it's disposable on one way.
I mean, you and I did that Instagram livetogether.
We've done two actually.
And that was kind of the tool at the time.

(01:28:10):
Like I didn't know to have a podcast.
You had yours and I was like, Hey, this issocial media.
Let's just have a conversation.
But the nice thing about that conversationis it just, you know, it's kind of gone.
You're in the moment for that.
What I love about what you're doing isthat you have the podcast and it's going
to live on, you know, in perpetuity.

(01:28:30):
And then, you know, till, till, till thecloud goes away.
And then you've got this kind of extralevel of access and extra level of, of
like, Hey, Mike, like, I want to ask yousome questions.
And like, I'm, I'm actually investedenough not to just demand or expect an
anonymous reply in your Instagram DMS.
I'm going to pay in to learn more, educatemyself.

(01:28:51):
And then if I still have questions, boy, Iget this access point to you to, to put it
out there.
That's, that's great.
Yeah, I enjoy it.
Yeah, I think it's just kind of a win-win.
It's better for the people that want tosign up that are serious about it.
And I don't feel like I'm wasting myfucking time and blowing my own horn.

(01:29:12):
Yeah, that is kind of one of the things onInstagram is a, it's kind of an
inevitability of that.
I just feel like a pompous fuck, likegoing live and telling people about my day
or, you know what, I'm gonna share myopinion on like, who gives a fuck, you
know, like, I don't know, I just, youknow, like, it's just not, that's just not
my gig, you know, I mean, I've tried it afew times, I'm just like, dude, this is

(01:29:34):
fucking dumb, I'm not doing it, you know,so.
No, it's funny.
I, I see you on social media for prettymuch who's the guest this week.
Who are you talking with?
And it's a great snapshot of what that'sgoing to look like.
And like, it just hooks me into say like,okay, cool.
I'm going to go listen to this episode.
that's about it, you know, I'm not, youknow, I'm not trying to, you know, see how

(01:29:57):
fast I can get to a million followers or,you know, trying to get so many fucking
likes a week or whatever, you know, Ijust, yeah, I decided better shit to worry
about, you know, and so, you know, I mean,the Patreon thing is a nice happy medium
where for the people that really want tosee that kind of stuff, they can, but I'm
not fucking wasting my time doing it andfeeling like a...

(01:30:20):
an arrogant prick in the process, youknow, so.
selling selling yourself out a little bitinstead is a whole different has a whole
different experience to it.
That's, that's good stuff.
I like that.
Well, on that note, check out Mike'sPatreon page.
And as always, thanks for listening.
You can find the Cult of Recreationalismon all your podcasts and services.

(01:30:42):
And don't forget to check us out onYouTube on that social media thing.
Just look us up at Bob's Naturals andyou're gonna find us and
leave a thumbs up, you can leave a review,you could do all the things.
And thank you.
Nathan, you good out there?
I'm out.
I'm out!
What?
Ho!

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Mike Ritland | Ep. 16

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Mike Ritland | Ep. 16