October 17, 2023 • 47 mins
As a leader, it starts with you. It starts with how you show up, in knowing what you want to be and how you want to be perceived. It's setting a tone for your team. How do you ultimately desire to show up, professionally and personally?
Our latest guest, Rina Johnson, is the VP of Marketing of Patelco Credit Union, a financial cooperative with a mission-driven purpose. Rina brings her wealth of experience, having spent years as a marketing leader with renowned brands like 24 Hour Fitness and Visa. Together we explore the transformative power of marketing. Rina shares her professional journey, offering valuable insights into authenticity's impact on customer behavior and brand differentiation. Discover the delicate balance between maintaining brand integrity and fulfilling business goals, as well as the power of feedback, and leadership lessons that lead to positive change within organizations. We also explore the unique world of credit unions, and how community and connection are the key pillars.
Join as we discuss:
Our latest guest, Rina Johnson, is the VP of Marketing of Patelco Credit Union, a financial cooperative with a mission-driven purpose. Rina brings her wealth of experience, having spent years as a marketing leader with renowned brands like 24 Hour Fitness and Visa. Together we explore the transformative power of marketing. Rina shares her professional journey, offering valuable insights into authenticity's impact on customer behavior and brand differentiation. Discover the delicate balance between maintaining brand integrity and fulfilling business goals, as well as the power of feedback, and leadership lessons that lead to positive change within organizations. We also explore the unique world of credit unions, and how community and connection are the key pillars.
Join as we discuss:
- How authenticity in marketing can influence customer behavior
- How a company's mission and purpose can be used as a powerful tool to create a memorable and differentiating brand
- How credit unions differ from banks, and the distinction between a member and a customer
- How organizations can empower local leaders to customize marketing efforts while staying true to the brand's values
- LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rina-rasheed-johnson/
- Company Website: https://www.patelco.org/
- Other Relevant Link: In-N-Out Burger
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
The single most important thing you cando today is to create and deliver a
better experience for your customers. Learnhow sales, marketing and customer success experts
create internal alignment, achieve desired outcomes, and exceed customer expectations in a personal
and human way. This is theCustomer Experience Podcast. Here's your host,
(00:25):
Ethan Butte. Authenticity, uniqueness,and differentiation. They give us the best
path through highly competitive environments. Ourcustomers need to feel them, remember them,
and act on them. And oneway to tie them all together in
a memorable and differentiating way is toleverage our mission and our purpose. That's
(00:45):
what we'll be getting into today witha person who spent seven years as a
marketing leader with twenty four hour Fitnessand four and a half years as a
marketing leader at Visa. Today,she serves as the vice president of Marketing
at Patelco Credit Union, a fullservice, not for profit financial cooperative with
nine billion dollars in assets and nearlyhalf a million members nationwide. Rina Johnson,
(01:06):
Welcome to the Customer Experience Podcast.Thank you. I'm so happy to
be here. Yeah, I'm reallylooking forward to the conversation. I'm going
to ask you about member experience.But the language we're going to use to
get this started is around customer experience. When I say that, what does
that mean to you? A customersexperience to me just feels like the most
important interaction that you can have withsomebody. It's that first impression. It's
(01:30):
that thoughtful, reassuring voice, youknow, tone of your email. I
mean, everything that you can doand bring to differentiate who you are as
a person as a company is throughexperience as someone has with you. Really
good, really I especially appreciate,and I know this is going to be
a theme through the conversation already,kind of the relationship undertones in what you
(01:55):
just said. There that that voicewe can trust or that voice that assures
us, like it's a very humanapproach to it. When did this language
come on to your radar? Like? Is customer experience language that you've been
using for years? I mean you'veobviously been doing the work, but when
did the language come on to yourradar? You know, I have been
a marketer since I was in highschool, I'll tell you that. And
(02:19):
in high school I took a classand it was a sports marketing class,
and something about it really connected withme, and it was the idea that
you can influence behavior and that youcan impact people in really meaningful ways through
marketing. And so from the verybeginn eight, I just knew what I
wanted to do as a marketer wasto make a difference to people through the
brands that I worked for, throughthe company missions that I truly believed in.
(02:43):
So I always aligned myself and workedfor companies that had values that were
consistent with my own. And sostarting out on the agency side, working
on a power Bar account, that'swhat I wanted. I loved what they
stood for, I loved the product. I love sports. I made my
way through with Visa Visa as wellas twenty for our Fitness and now Patelco
(03:07):
the mission around experience. At Visa, I was introduced to design thinking and
this idea that everything comes from theexperience somebody has with you with your brand.
And honestly, that was probably themost influential component that I could point
(03:28):
out over the course of the lastfifteen years for me was really understanding design
thinking and working with a really cooldesign agency firm in San Francisco that walked
us through that experience. Okay,there's so many directions I want to go
right now. I guess I'll startwith whereby instinct is, which is take
me back to high school a littlebit. I mean, I love this
idea that you got turned onto,the idea that you could influence people.
(03:53):
What I heard in your response isthat you wanted to influence them in a
favorable way. What I heard inyour response is that sports in general,
and I would assume there's an undercurrentof health and fitness that's important to you
personally. Who were you back inyour teens that like like that this all
kind of clicked for you, andthat you've been able to pursue it ever
since. You know, I wassomebody who knew that I thrived on connection,
(04:18):
you know, connecting with friends.Energy was huge for me, and
so I was always a really passionate, sensitive, aware person. I think
good, bad, and ugly,but I knew that I wanted to work,
and I wanted to work to makea difference. And I was very
(04:38):
ambitious and was also a very independentthinker. And so for me being in
high school and excelling in sports,really enjoying a high school experience, it
kind of set a lot of thedirection for knowing what I wanted to do.
And I have to say this,and I think you'll appreciate, especially
(04:59):
with what's happened I mean today withthe Barbie movie and the phenomenon around that
is. You know, I onlyhad one Barbie growing up, and that
was business woman Barbie and a truestory, and I wish I still had
that. But so at a veryearly age, I knew that I wanted
to do things a little bit differently, at least from some of them.
You know, I grew up ina big family, five kids, so
(05:20):
uh, definitely broke outside the normthere. But uh but I you know
that that really has molded me towho I am today and how I lead
my team. What I bring toPatelco, what I get from Patelco,
and what we bring to our membersreally good. I think I'm going to
come back to design thinking later.So I want to revisit some of these
themes that you talked about with Visaand twenty four our fitness, because we're
(05:44):
right here and I would love togive context to listeners. I'd love for
you to share a little bit aboutPatelco Credit Union. Who's who are your
customers and what kind of problems areyou solving for them? Sure? Absolutely.
Potoco Credit Union is a northern CaliforniaBay area credit union that has been
around for over eighty five years.We have, as you said earlier,
(06:06):
about five hundred thousand members. Andwhat I love about Patoco Credit Union is
we are really a credit union thatis for anyone and everyone. Really,
when we talk about who our targetmarket is, it really is working class
individuals, I mean in families.We are not the bank that's for the
elitists. We are not the financialinstitution that gives, you know, the
(06:30):
best rates to people that have themost money. Whether we have never been
that financial institution. Who we aresomeone that truly and deeply cares about you
and the community. That actually ourmission about helping improve your financial health and
wellbeing is truly embedded from our CEOfrom day one of me starting down to
our frontline employees. Every single personhere is incredibly connected to our mission and
(06:55):
our cause and our purpose. AndI've worked for some great brands, but
this is the only brand that trulybrings it to life in such an authentic,
genuine way. Everything we do isfor our members and helping them,
so whether they're just starting out,whether they've fallen upon some bad luck,
whether they're in a really good financialposition, which really feel that we deliver
(07:15):
products and services that meet them wherethey are for their own individual and family
needs really good. They're founded inI think nineteen thirty six, so you
might be planning a ninety year birthdayparty or anniversary or celebration in a couple
of years here, So I assumethis goes really really deep to the degree
(07:39):
that you can. And you've beenthere a long time, but not eighty
seven years, so like, tellme a little bit about the roots as
far as you know. So it'sthe credit union cause is a very fascinating
one because credit unions are very differentthan banks. Credit unions are owned by
our members. We're a financial cooperative. So when you join a credit union,
(08:00):
you're a member and you have ashare in our organization. You are
a member owner, and so wegive you a membership with a dollar in
a savings account, and that isyour that is that is you as an
owner. And so everything that wedo is truly intended to benefit our members
and the community. So the moneywe make, we reinvest it back into
our members in the way of lowerfees, higher savings rates, and ultimately,
(08:26):
you know, this started out.Credit unions really tend to start out
very, very small. You hada group of like five Pacific Telephone and
elect Telephone company individuals who started thiscompany with five hundred dollars, you know,
eighty some odd years ago and justhad a dream of making things better,
right, And credit unions typically startthat way. It's very grassroots.
(08:50):
And so that's where we get Patelcofrom, is the pa Is Pacific and
then the tel Is Telephone and thencompany, so that's Patelco. We're really
proud of our history and our originsand our roots and here in the Bay
Area, you know, we havea long standing history that our members and
communities can trust us. Really goodwere you as you found them or they
(09:16):
found you? How familiar were youwith the story? And how much a
part of your decision to join theorganization was anchored in some of this that
you've been sharing here around the purpose, the alignment, around the purpose and
all that, Like how tangible wasit and what role did it play and
you're committing to join the team,it played that really significant role. I
(09:37):
knew that I had worked for somereally great brands and was just looking for
a change and looking for some growthopportunities, and this opportunity to lead a
marketing team that was smaller in natureand stature, but also to work for
a company that was in the midstof redefining themselves. The Patelco had just
rebranded itself and was really evolving forbeing a rate and you know, a
(10:01):
rate focused brand to being more ofa mission fueled, purpose driven brand.
So moving from rate and fees notonly being about rate and fees, which
is a really important component of photographcredit Union and many credit unions, is
there you know, better rates andlower fees. But we didn't want to
just be that because anyone can saythat. For us, it was about
(10:24):
the heart of it. And soI was really excited to join an organization
that truly believe in that. Ican see that when they talked about their
mission and their purpose and the differencethat they wanted to make, and also
the difference at marketing they wanted tosee marketing make. In addition, I
love that there was so many femalesin leadership here. Our CEO is a
(10:46):
female, Aaron Mende. She's beenhere I think now for ten years and
has really transformed this organization. Andto be able to come from a heavily
male dominated fitness industry world to nowbeing in financial services, which also tends
to be more male dominated as well. To have so many female executives was
(11:09):
really something I was excited and proudof and something that I could look up
to, So that also played afactor in it really wonderful and I think
a lot of folks can recognize andwe talk about this a lot as a
background theme in these conversations. Productfeature. What I heard you say was
something like product features benefits great,you need to have them, but they're
(11:33):
not going to differentiate you in anymeaningful way. Now I'm extending your language
and just making some of my ownto it. You know, no one
can really connect to that message likeand by connecting, I just mean like
truly connect to a message around.You might be attracted by a message of
features, benefits, outcomes, ratesis where is the language here, But
(11:54):
it's not going to break through.It's not going to connect anyone, it's
not going to differentiate you. Ireally appreciate that pivot that was being made
and all the other elements that madethis just such a good place for you
at that time. I would lovefor you to share as much as you
can for people who are thinking inthis way or they're trying to structure an
argument where they want to like me, I'm thinking like maybe a mid level
(12:16):
marketing leader in a mid size firmthat's trying to advocate for some kind of
move like this for the long termbenefit of the organization, as I'm sure
it has been for Patelco. Andwe'll continue to be talk a little bit
about maybe some of the fears orthe dynamics what holds people back from differentiating
through this type of approach versus theconfidence and comfort of But we have good
(12:41):
features and we have good benefits.We should lead with this. Well,
it's finding that right balance. AndI love your question because we still are
accountable, I mean, are wehave product partners that are still accountable for
driving business goals? We have todrive loans, you know, we have
to be able to loan out money. We have to be able to grow
(13:03):
our deposits so we can lend more. I mean, there's that balance.
So it really is figuring out howdo you connect the two how do you
take your brand? Because one timemy CEO asked me, well, what
you know, what's brand to you? And you know you can have There's
no one right answer, right,I mean, brand can be and but
her answer was mission. Our brandis our mission. So her brand's our
(13:26):
mission, and our products and ourservices are outputs of that. They are
just the reasons to believe. Thenyou can bring them together in a way
where when I'm talking about our products, of course I'm talking about a great
fee or sorry, great rate andlower fee or no fees, because i
want you to know we're saving we'rehelping you save money. I'm wanting you
(13:48):
to know you can worry less aboutsomething. I'm I'm connecting these these product
attributes that really matter right to thewhy and what it could mean to a
person in their journey and their financialjourney. So what that could mean is
you know, you don't have towork as hard here, you put more
money in your pocket. We're goingto make it easier for you. Right.
(14:11):
And so there's things about our serviceas well that should be standing out,
because we do have to differentiate ourselves. When I'm reviewing creative from our
agency or for my team and im envision, well, could you remove
our name and put someone else's namethere and if so, this is not
meaningful, right, So what isit about that is that can connect us?
(14:31):
What's different about us? And wechallenge our product partners all the time
on this when they're saying we didn'tget the results we were looking for,
and it's like, but what,you know, what is it about our
product the differentiate? What is itabout this experience? You know? Because
I don't want to just be lipservice and talk about our brand. We
need to have components and give peoplethe reasons to believe in that. And
(14:52):
honestly, our people make all thedifference in the world. That an emotional
connection, the compassion, the empathywe show oh as people are navigating through
life. I mean, that's whattruly needs to also continue to differentiate us.
Okay, again, you gave meso many things that I want to
ask you about. One of them. I'm just going to say them out
(15:13):
loud so maybe we can both remember. One of them is around this compassion
piece. I want to know howyou teach not necessarily you personally, but
even organizationally. I'm sure you doit too within the marketing team, but
how do we essentially, how dowe operationalize that as a dynamic. How
do we operationalize this the differentiating characteristicsof the brand. But where I'd like
(15:39):
to go first is on brand itself. I agree with you that brand can
be defined in a number of ways, so can customer experience. That's one
of the reasons that I asked thatquestion off the top is you know now
that I've asked it well over twohundred probably two hundred and fifty times.
Now you get this diversity of responsesand you look where they converge and diverge.
(16:00):
My observations when we talk about customerexperience and brand, I would love
your reaction to this is that atsome level, the brand is the promises
that we're making, and the experienceis our attempt to deliver on those promises.
Do you buy that in general?And is there anything you would add
to that dynamic between promise and delivery? Yeah? No, I have thousand
(16:23):
percent agree with that. It's whywe work so hard with our team members
because they are a reflection of whowe are. We we could put something
out there, but it's that humaninteraction and it's that experience. It's also
the experience they might have digitally.You know that every touch, it's how
(16:45):
we handled them when they called us, It's how we you know, how
we were received when we sent thatemail or that letter. And so that
connection between you know, experience brandand it being a reflect of who we
are. Ultimately, the way thatI measure that is our member's ability to
(17:07):
be able to tell us and giveus that feedback of while you made a
different Wow, I'm learning from you. I really appreciate how you're educating me
because we do look at ourselves asthose thought leaders as well. So we
want to be there ahead of itto say, hey, here's the scams
that we want you to be awareof, here's the ways we're looking to
protect you. Here we do monthlynewsletter, We do a lot of educational
(17:29):
content because we want them to seeus as not just somebody who's there when
they have a need, but somebodywho's there to help educate them too.
So from an experience perspective, Iultimately want PTELCO to be relevant in so
many different facets of our members' lives, not just when they have a need,
but really when they don't even realizethey do. I mean, that's
what a good friend or anyone supportivein our lives. Does is like helps
(17:52):
us in a proactive manner, likeI've been there. I want to share
this with you, this kind ofa thing. I really appreciate that approach,
educational kind. You have been thinkingon two related things. What is
the scope of marketing at Patelco CreditUnion? Like, what is your scope
of direct And I'm using very aggressivelanguage here that I don't like, but
it's what I have top of mindhere. You know, your scope of
(18:14):
ownership, like what are the zonesthat are your direct responsibility? Obviously your
influence goes well beyond that. Andthen also maybe where does voice of customer
fit into the organization? Obviously isbecause I heard you in that response,
Like one of the ways that youknow you're being effective is when you hear
the types of things you're hoping tohear back here back. So I know
that you're listening to the voice ofthe customer. But I'm wondering that where
(18:37):
that fits into your scope of responsibility. Is something that that's delivered and influences
you in your team or is itsomething you and your team are directly engaged
in. Yeah, no, absolutely, it's a great question. So when
I think about the voice of thecustomer. We're lucky enough here to have
a member experienced team, and soI have a colleague that heads up that
team, and we do work veryclose with that team. Overall, that
(19:00):
team is responsible for helping us understandhow effective we are in with member feedback
that we're getting through surveys that wedo on a regular basis. They're also
instrumental in helping us take some ofthose themes and help inform the organization about
(19:21):
pain points. Here's the problem areas. You know, problems happen, but
how do we react? How dowe respond to a problem? Did we
resolve the problem? So members andcustomers are going to be accepting things happen,
but how did you help me throughthat? And that's what we measure
ourselves on. And that's the feedbackthat our member experienced team shares broadly because
(19:44):
actually, as an organization, ourbonuses, our goals are actually dependent on
that. So how well we've deliveredon our promise is something that as a
company we take very very seriously.So what we've uncovered recently as we are
really digging into all of these youknow, pain points or where our areas
of opportunity are as an organization inresolving our members' problems. A lot of
(20:07):
it comes down to communication, whetherit's a lack of communication, a lack
of follow through, we weren't proactive, maybe not show enough compassion or empathy.
And so marketing is heavily involved ina very critical to helping improve and
(20:27):
enhance that member experience. So Idon't directly own it, but marketing's purview
is ultimately I have a lot ofdisciplines within marketing, but the voice of
the customer does live in another organization, and there's a lot of synergies and
a lot of collaboration that happens.Yeah, as there should be really good.
(20:47):
I appreciate you walking to that,and it's a it's a clear vision
for me, and I want toget into member experience, not necessarily as
an organization and a function per se. But before we do, to hear
anything you have to share, likespecifically, like tips for other people who
are like I really like the waythat she's talking about this. This seems
like something that we wish we weredoing more or better inside our company or
(21:11):
organization or even within our team.Share anything you can about operationalizing and by
that is that, you know,maybe it is just the way that we
recruit and interview and select and hireand on board. Maybe it's a cultural
component or a general ethos within theorganization. I think that's certainly true of
you all. But how do youget compassion and empathy to be in that
(21:37):
zone that we know we need tobe with our customer experience if we are
to deliver on our brand promises,which is consistency. What are like anything
you can share on how to helpour team be more consistent with some of
these really rich human relationship oriented dynamicsthat we want people to feel when they're
(22:00):
on the phone, when they're inperson, uh and and all of these
other interaction points. Sure the theway that I would articulate help people what
people can do in their organizations andtheir departments to make, you know,
to impact cross functionally. Whatever situationyou're in is starts with you. You
(22:26):
got to you got to show up, and you've got to believe. I
think it's really obvious that the teammembers that are all in and are really
feeling like they really feel it,and they're all in, and they've got
the energy to support that, andtheir actions support their words. I think
(22:48):
it's really obvious to tell who thosepeople are versus the ones that aren't.
And so for for me, itstarts with me as a leader. It
starts and how I show up.It starts in knowing what I want to
be and how I want to beperceived. It's setting a tone for my
team, you know, how doI want to show up and also for
my peers. So I'm a vicepresident here at Patelco. There are the
(23:15):
the We have an executive team that'smade up of I think eight individuals and
then the vice presidents and so there'sabout thirty of us. So we're incredibly
influential organizationally, and we have abouteight hundred employees total. And so for
me, what I've seen the biggestdifference is leading by example. I've also
created what I call sort of asubculture within our culture. I appreciate the
(23:37):
culture of Patelco, and I alsobelieve that our marketing culture and my group
of seventeen eighteen people who started outas six people seven years ago, you
know, we are like a familyand it is a very high performing,
highly functioning, very well respected teambecause they show up and they lead by
(24:00):
example and so I always tell them, you know, when they're doing with
you know, challenging situations, challengingpartners, is you know, you know,
be the better, you know,set that example, like don't do
just because someone has done, likerise above, because I want I tell
my team, you know, you'rea reflection of me, and I'm a
reflection. I want to make myteam proud. And then I tell them,
(24:22):
even though you're an individual contributor,you're representing our marketing department as a
whole. So how you choose toshow up is a reflection on who we
are as a department. And soI think it's that idea of really being
in touch with you as a leader, you know, and taking feedback.
I will say, one of thebiggest gifts I've ever received, even though
(24:45):
at the time and over the yearsit's been it was much much harder,
is feedback. Feedback is a giftand when you recognize that, it's a
gift and it's not something to takepersonal because I used to take everything personal,
very emotional, out of a veryemotional reaction because I cared so much.
But you can still care so muchand take feedback and no, as
(25:11):
long as your motives are pure,and that's what I tell my team two.
You know, check yourself, yourmotives up here, and always assume
good intent from others, right.And so for me, those are kind
of the consistent messages that I conveythat I remind myself when I'm getting frustrated
with a colleague, a situation,even my manager. Those types of messages
(25:36):
keep replaying. So many good ideasin there, and more importantly, good
practices. I appreciate that you immediatelywent to It starts with me, it
starts with what I model, butyou also added some kind of coaching elements
in there as well, like here'sa little process for you to make sure
that you're coming from the right place. Check yourself really quick. And then
(25:59):
also this idea of you know,it's a reflection on you personally as a
leader, but it's also a reflectionon the other members of the team at
some level too, This idea ofhigh performing team that has a family type
vibe in it as well. You'reaccountable to everybody on the team when that
dynamic is full and healthy. Iso appreciate that, and it's one of
(26:22):
the reasons that we talk so muchabout employee experience in these conversations and you
just did without using the language becauseI just didn't frame it that way.
But the customer experience is absolutely andcompletely a reflection of the type of mindset
and modeled behavior and encouragement and tonethat you just walk through. Really really
(26:44):
appreciate that. I want to goback a little bit to the twenty four
hour fitness and visa, Like youhad this like really interesting range of responsibilities
from brand. There was some productmarketing in there. I think there was
like you just just walk through thata little bit, and maybe what you
(27:06):
took out of that that was maybesurprisingly helpful as you stepped at some level
into a new industry and certainly withindo a new organization. Yeah. Now
I actually have had I've been luckyenough to have really great experiences through my
career. I've also been laid offin my career. I've also had a
tough time finding a job in mycareer during the recession back in twenty two
(27:32):
thousand and whenever that was. Butyou know, for me personally, the
visa experience really gave me a lotof opportunity to look at the customer,
to look at the value prop towork with partners so I started out actually
(27:53):
working on the promotion side of thebusiness. And so for me, what
was helpful was actually working in thesedifferent business unit. So I started out
in promotions, so I got reallygood experience working on campaigns and promotions and
incentives and working with fun sports brandsand and and partner affiliates, and you
(28:14):
know, then moved into product marketingand got really great exposure, really great
leadership, and got to understand alot more around positioning products. You know,
Visa as a brand, but Visasalso it's you know, it's a
payments vehicle, but it's a brandthat stood for so much and I could
I would never be able to articulateit. And so I learned a lot.
(28:37):
I grew a lot from a brandperspective at Visa, which was super
helpful, and got product experience,promotions experience, and also got experience working
on some new innovative areas that todayis just table stakes, like mobile.
You know, I partnered with alarge financial institution to launch our first mobile
(29:03):
offer pilot. You know, Ilaunched Visa contact Lists, We rebranded it
to pay with like so these thingsin these different areas. Visa merged with
Visa USA merged with Visa International andI was part of that experience, which
then took me into a global role, and so suddenly I was Visa Mobile
and part of Visa Innovations team.So for me being able to play different
(29:27):
hats and really expand myself and challengemyself to work with different leaders, different
personalities, different partners, that hasbeen incredibly helpful to knowing what I like,
what I don't like, areas ofopportunity, dealing with difficult situations.
And then at twenty four hour Fitness, it became a breath of fresh air
(29:47):
because now it just felt lighter.It's all about health and fitness. But
then you're dealing with another situation ofyou know, now we have four hundred
locations and we're opening new localtions.But where you know, you've got all
these different areas of your business,you're trying to drive new members, you're
trying to keep the ones you have. It was just a totally different business
(30:11):
model. So that was also thatis where I at that time. By
the time I left, I thinkI had about eighty percent of the marketing
team reporting into me, So itwas responsible for everything from acquisition to retention
to our personal training programs to ourI partner, I was the relationship partner
(30:33):
for we'd sponsored the Denver Broncos atthe time, so I managed that partner
side partnership marketing as well. Sothere was a whole lot of areas as
well as field marketing. So howdo you engage four hundred clubs and club
managers to support your mission, yourcause, your marketing? I mean it
was. It was a lot offun. Probably way better shape back then
(30:56):
than I am now, which iswhat happens when you work for a fitness
company. But it really I thinkthose two experiences together really set the stage
for my next role. Which funnystory, I didn't even know who the
hiring employer was when I responded tothe job opening. So you read a
blind blinded description of the opportunity.You're like, I like this side of
(31:21):
that opportunity. I said, Ithink I can do that. It sounds
a little bit bigger than what I'vedone before, but you know what the
heck, let me give it ashot. I knew it was local and
that was important for me, butyeah, they didn't have it. I
didn't find out the company name untila recruiter called me and followed up with
me awesome, and then it turnedout to be all the things that you
(31:41):
really wanted to see and hear interms of leadership, culture, purpose,
values, et cetera. Thank youfor sharing all that. I wanted to
ask you specifically about the four hundredlocations, just in the spirit of so
much of the experience relative to thebrand is delivered locally in that environment.
(32:06):
I was wondering if you had anytips around creating consistent experience, like how
do you even track and or improveconsistency across hundreds of locations when you know,
I wouldn't quite call I'd be interestedin your take on this too,
I wouldn't quite call you know,twenty four hour fitness commoditized as a space.
(32:29):
I mean, there're certainly in anytime, like I'm in Colorado Springs,
and there are like you know,there are a couple like local things,
and then there are a couple likeyou know, twenty four hour fitness
in a couple like larger chains.So it's not pure commodity, but there's
definitely like intense competition, and sothe experience, in my observation is that
(32:50):
is the differentiator. And so howdo you create some of that, and
you're also selling like national access waspart of the part of the thing too,
Like we can come to any ofthese And of course, you know
a question I'll ask you later isa brand that delivers a great experience for
you as a customer And one that'scome up a number of times is Chick
fil A wish you can use ifyou want to. And the story is
(33:12):
very often around this. It doesn'tmatter where I am in the country,
I show up and I know thatI'm going to get what I want.
I know it's going to be ofgreat quality. You know, the people
that I engage with in that processare going to be very consistently friendly.
And so anyway, that's a verylong way around a short question, which
is any tips around creating consistency inbrand or experience across hundreds of geographically diverse
(33:38):
locations and a human to human experience. Yeah, that is a great question,
and that was You're right, incrediblychallenging when I was at twenty four
fitness. The best thing we cando is to be consistent with what we
were asking our leadership of these branchor of these clubs to do right on
(34:00):
these gems. How do we differentiateourselves, right, and so the way
we differentiate ourselves and making sure thatwe have that really close connection. So
whether it be through ongoing monthly groundtables or you know, that communication flow
between marketing and the clubs as wellas their leadership. What is that consistent
message. What are we doing froma marketing perspective that's supporting the way that
(34:23):
they're interacting with the customers at thegyms and whatnot. I would say though,
really giving them the autonomy to ownit, right, because that's part
of it. We set the stage. Here's your foundation, here's what we're
really proud of. And to yourpoint, now you get to deliver that
(34:45):
and you get to deliver it ina way that's unique to you. And
the ones that they're the most successfulare the ones where they know the people
that come in, you know,those people that are the regular folks,
they have made a difference in theirlives. You know, somebody that believed
in them. I mean the thingabout twenty for our fitness. At the
time when I worked there was therewas a lot of boutique gyms that were
coming out and boutique facilities and eventhe you know, the crossfits of the
(35:08):
world were just starting out, andit was you know, wow, do
people realize what they pay for it? At twenty four? Our fitness gives
them access to that and so muchmore. But what is it about it
that they want? Well, theymight want that smaller, more intimate experience.
Well, how do we create thatwithin our walls, but yet give
them all these extra benefits. Sohere's the framework, here's our guardrails of
(35:30):
who we are as a brand,how we talk about ourselves, and then
you have the flexibility to create thatuniqueness because every market's different. That's what's
hard. Every market is different,and the needs of you know, a
gym that's in Colorado Springs in acertain neighborhood and the you know, the
demographics of that may be very differentthan the gym that's in upstate New York,
(35:53):
you know. And so I can'ttell you from my marketing you know,
Ivory Tower, how to run yourbusiness because your you know your customers
and customer's best. I actually don't, and I will never I will never
act as if I do. Butwell I will promise you is I will
(36:14):
make sure that you have the toolsand that you have the support of a
brand that backs you on the visionthat you want to create for your location.
So being able to customize for theirfor their customers, for their communities,
and for their neighborhoods, giving themthat flexibility is really, to be
honest, what I've found was themost effective way. And it's hard and
(36:35):
and and there's it's really hard tofind strong leaders out there who want to
do that. So much good stuffin there too, specifically, the call
straight back to the open that Iwrote that you've just fulfilled wonderfully, which
is about authenticity and uniqueness. Thisidea of it is a local market.
We're going to provide it. AndI love your language of guardrails. We're
going to give you some uh,We're going to give you plenty of support.
(36:59):
We're going to give you the frame, the framework or the guardrails that
and give you the freedom to operatein it in a way that's authentic to
you and super relevant and unique andspecific to your local market. So well
done. So another question that Ithink is pretty simple, but maybe it
isn't. Is there a difference inyour experience and in your view between customer
(37:21):
experience and member experience? Is thisjust different language and we're talking about a
slightly different relationship with the customer.How much of a how much of a
twist does the cooperative model and themembership model create or or are they really
much more parallel and it is moreof a language thing. Such a great
(37:43):
question. I don't think it's alanguage thing. I think some people may.
The reason I don't is that itfeels different to be part of a
membership. Is you're part of agroup with collective beliefs, in my opinion,
and you're part of something bigger.So we are cooperative, we are
a community, we are team memberswho believe. We are people who are
(38:07):
where you live, where you work, delivering products and services that we hope
make a difference in your lives.And so for me, with members you're
not treated like you are just thatnumber. You know that you are just
an account holder. You know,we really are. There's more of a
connection there, and it's it's reallywhen I hear someone say customer, if
(38:30):
I'm working with an agency partner andthey say customer, I immediately just have
this like, oh my gosh,do you not know us? Like you
know? So they slipped up,But it feels so different to me it
feels rigid, it feels like youdon't know who I am. You know,
and it's not wrong. You know, you consume products and services,
(38:54):
you know we help you, andbut but it does. It has a
different sentiment. So our members arenot customers and it's more than just lingo
to us. Yeah, I reallyappreciate that lesson right in there, which
is, if we are to makepeople feel the way we want them to,
if we are to deliver a remarkableexperience, it is to make people
(39:16):
feel seen, heard, understood,appreciated, valued, that they belong here.
And the language does make a veryvery big difference. And you know,
it's generally a lot of us wouldcall that a marketing tip, but
I think it transcends marketing. Islike, if we are to make people
feel welcome, we want to speaktheir language. It still needs to be
true to us, that needs tobe authentic to us. We're not going
(39:38):
to contort and be different people todifferent people. There needs to be some
truth shared in the middle there.But it's just a sign of respect and
understanding to make people feel welcome throughlanguage. If you are enjoying this conversation
with Rena as I am, Iwant to point you too. I'm actually
going to point you to three otherepisodes because I couldn't pull one of these
(39:59):
three out if you're interested in thecooperative model and more conversation about member experience.
Episode two hundred and eleven with JasonChampion. He shifted from a twenty
year career as a salesperson. Hegot involved in some journey mapping and some
other projects and eventually became the directorof Member Experience at NRTC, which is
(40:20):
a cooperative of utilities serving primarily ruralAmerica. So that's episode two eleven with
Jason Champion. We talk a lotabout member experience there and the cooperative model.
A little more recently, episode twothirty nine with Shannon Barry, the
vice president of Customer Experience at TitleI, through a Title insurance company.
We talked a lot about the powerof culture. Culture is a strategic anchor
(40:43):
for your entire business and really buildingCX from the inside out and having customer
experience be a direct consequence of employeeexperience again, living it from the inside
out. So that's two thirty ninewith Shannon, and then immediately thereafter episode
two forty with Caitlin dr who's thesenior vice president of customer Experience at Bucy,
a bank based out of Illinois.We anchored a good part of that
(41:08):
conversation about their one hundred and fiftyyear old brand promise and the way that
they're still bringing it to life everyday today. So if you're interested in
this legacy, mission, purpose valuesaspect of our time together today, you'll
enjoy two forty with Caitlin Drake.So with that, Rena, thank you
for waiting through those to share withme two things that I always love to
(41:29):
hear. One of them is aperson for you to thank or mention who's
had a positive impact on your lifeor career, and the other is a
company or brand that delivers a greatexperience for you as a customer. I've
been noodling on this question for solong because I can give a whole laundry
list of people from some of thementors that I had early on, the
(41:51):
great managers that I had career wise, they were the ones I've been the
most influential, gave me the confidence, taught me a lot, They were
my friend ends. I will saysome of the most fantastic, most successful
people I've ever worked with. I'vebeen very good friends with them, and
they were my leaders, they weremy managers, and so we would spend
time outside of the office as wellas in the office. So to me,
(42:14):
I'm not going to name just oneperson, but I had fantastic leaders
even at companies I didn't. Iworked at a company called News America Marketing
before I started working for Visa,and you know, I worked there for
two years and it was a greatexperience, and some of the leaders there
really I still, you know,think back to those days. Same thing
at Visa and same thing, youknow, as I'm here now. So
(42:36):
for me, it was really youknow, as a leader, we play
such important roles in the experience.We can deliver to our team who and
then turn delivers to the ultimate customeror members. And so I've never taken
for granted the role that I playin my team's lives because they spend a
lot of time with us here atwork. But for me personally, it
(42:57):
would be my mom. She passedaway sadly from brain cancer two and a
half years ago. But I wasalways the independent, kind of black sheep
of the family, less traditional,did take the traditional route, but she
was always so proud of me andalways said how proud of me she was.
And really, I think me beinga strong, independent, you know,
(43:21):
master of multitasking, single mom oftwo is really because of the strength
and compassion she instilled in me.And she had a lot of compassion for
people, and so I think therewas so much she worked really hard as
a mom of five, and alot of her work ethics, her values
definitely have brought I've brought that allinto the workplace. So that absolutely from
(43:45):
a personal perspective. And then yourlast question was a company or brand that
delivers a great experience for you asa customer. Oh, you know,
it's kind of funny because I mean, I've got to say in and out
because in and out, you knowCalifornia based chain, you know, hamburger
chain and fast food chain, butI think they've expanded outside. The thing
(44:08):
is you always wait. You don'texpect it to be a fast experience,
right, which is what's funny becausepeople are so impatient these days. But
you know that, and they consistentlydeliver great tasting burger. You know what
you're gonna get. It's one ofthose things where it's like it's just a
treat. Every time you go,and I think that is they have a
(44:30):
very simple business model and it's incrediblyeffective and they've got a very loyal following
as a result, and so inand out standing out for me right now
really good and I don't think thosetwo things can be peeled apart. The
loyalty and the simplicity and consistency.I think those are all part of the
same package. They're really well doneand beautifully done with your mom as well.
(44:53):
If someone wants to learn more aboutyou, connect with you maybe and
learn more about Patelco Credit Union.Where would you send them, Rina,
Patelco dot org is how you wouldlearn about our credit union. I hope
you come check us out. Asfar as connecting with me, I'm on
LinkedIn. Feel free to make thatconnection and would love to speak with more
(45:15):
folks, learn new things and makesome new introductions, So please reach out.
Awesome. She is Rena Johnson.I am Ethan Butte. Hit both
of us up on LinkedIn. Rena, thank you so much for your time
today. I really appreciate what you'redoing, the spirit that you're doing it
with, and the approach that you'remodeling that I know will result in someone
(45:36):
offering your name at this moment,at a podcast in the future. Well,
I appreciate the opportunity. It's reallybeen a pleasure to spend time talking
to you, so thank you somuch for having me every single day.
You're entrusting some of your most importantand most valuable messages to plain black text
on a plain white screen, tofaceless, typed out text. It doesn't
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The single most important thing you cando today is to create and deliver a
better experience for your customers. Learnhow sales, marketing and customer success experts
create internal alignment, achieve desired outcomes, and exceed customer expectations in a personal
and human way. This is theCustomer Experience Podcast. Here's your host,
(00:25):
Ethan Butte. Authenticity, uniqueness,and differentiation. They give us the best
path through highly competitive environments. Ourcustomers need to feel them, remember them,
and act on them. And oneway to tie them all together in
a memorable and differentiating way is toleverage our mission and our purpose. That's
(00:45):
what we'll be getting into today witha person who spent seven years as a
marketing leader with twenty four hour Fitnessand four and a half years as a
marketing leader at Visa. Today,she serves as the vice president of Marketing
at Patelco Credit Union, a fullservice, not for profit financial cooperative with
nine billion dollars in assets and nearlyhalf a million members nationwide. Rina Johnson,
(01:06):
Welcome to the Customer Experience Podcast.Thank you. I'm so happy to
be here. Yeah, I'm reallylooking forward to the conversation. I'm going
to ask you about member experience.But the language we're going to use to
get this started is around customer experience. When I say that, what does
that mean to you? A customersexperience to me just feels like the most
important interaction that you can have withsomebody. It's that first impression. It's
(01:30):
that thoughtful, reassuring voice, youknow, tone of your email. I
mean, everything that you can doand bring to differentiate who you are as
a person as a company is throughexperience as someone has with you. Really
good, really I especially appreciate,and I know this is going to be
a theme through the conversation already,kind of the relationship undertones in what you
(01:55):
just said. There that that voicewe can trust or that voice that assures
us, like it's a very humanapproach to it. When did this language
come on to your radar? Like? Is customer experience language that you've been
using for years? I mean you'veobviously been doing the work, but when
did the language come on to yourradar? You know, I have been
a marketer since I was in highschool, I'll tell you that. And
(02:19):
in high school I took a classand it was a sports marketing class,
and something about it really connected withme, and it was the idea that
you can influence behavior and that youcan impact people in really meaningful ways through
marketing. And so from the verybeginn eight, I just knew what I
wanted to do as a marketer wasto make a difference to people through the
brands that I worked for, throughthe company missions that I truly believed in.
(02:43):
So I always aligned myself and workedfor companies that had values that were
consistent with my own. And sostarting out on the agency side, working
on a power Bar account, that'swhat I wanted. I loved what they
stood for, I loved the product. I love sports. I made my
way through with Visa Visa as wellas twenty for our Fitness and now Patelco
(03:07):
the mission around experience. At Visa, I was introduced to design thinking and
this idea that everything comes from theexperience somebody has with you with your brand.
And honestly, that was probably themost influential component that I could point
(03:28):
out over the course of the lastfifteen years for me was really understanding design
thinking and working with a really cooldesign agency firm in San Francisco that walked
us through that experience. Okay,there's so many directions I want to go
right now. I guess I'll startwith whereby instinct is, which is take
me back to high school a littlebit. I mean, I love this
idea that you got turned onto,the idea that you could influence people.
(03:53):
What I heard in your response isthat you wanted to influence them in a
favorable way. What I heard inyour response is that sports in general,
and I would assume there's an undercurrentof health and fitness that's important to you
personally. Who were you back inyour teens that like like that this all
kind of clicked for you, andthat you've been able to pursue it ever
since. You know, I wassomebody who knew that I thrived on connection,
(04:18):
you know, connecting with friends.Energy was huge for me, and
so I was always a really passionate, sensitive, aware person. I think
good, bad, and ugly,but I knew that I wanted to work,
and I wanted to work to makea difference. And I was very
(04:38):
ambitious and was also a very independentthinker. And so for me being in
high school and excelling in sports,really enjoying a high school experience, it
kind of set a lot of thedirection for knowing what I wanted to do.
And I have to say this,and I think you'll appreciate, especially
(04:59):
with what's happened I mean today withthe Barbie movie and the phenomenon around that
is. You know, I onlyhad one Barbie growing up, and that
was business woman Barbie and a truestory, and I wish I still had
that. But so at a veryearly age, I knew that I wanted
to do things a little bit differently, at least from some of them.
You know, I grew up ina big family, five kids, so
(05:20):
uh, definitely broke outside the normthere. But uh but I you know
that that really has molded me towho I am today and how I lead
my team. What I bring toPatelco, what I get from Patelco,
and what we bring to our membersreally good. I think I'm going to
come back to design thinking later.So I want to revisit some of these
themes that you talked about with Visaand twenty four our fitness, because we're
(05:44):
right here and I would love togive context to listeners. I'd love for
you to share a little bit aboutPatelco Credit Union. Who's who are your
customers and what kind of problems areyou solving for them? Sure? Absolutely.
Potoco Credit Union is a northern CaliforniaBay area credit union that has been
around for over eighty five years.We have, as you said earlier,
(06:06):
about five hundred thousand members. Andwhat I love about Patoco Credit Union is
we are really a credit union thatis for anyone and everyone. Really,
when we talk about who our targetmarket is, it really is working class
individuals, I mean in families.We are not the bank that's for the
elitists. We are not the financialinstitution that gives, you know, the
(06:30):
best rates to people that have themost money. Whether we have never been
that financial institution. Who we aresomeone that truly and deeply cares about you
and the community. That actually ourmission about helping improve your financial health and
wellbeing is truly embedded from our CEOfrom day one of me starting down to
our frontline employees. Every single personhere is incredibly connected to our mission and
(06:55):
our cause and our purpose. AndI've worked for some great brands, but
this is the only brand that trulybrings it to life in such an authentic,
genuine way. Everything we do isfor our members and helping them,
so whether they're just starting out,whether they've fallen upon some bad luck,
whether they're in a really good financialposition, which really feel that we deliver
(07:15):
products and services that meet them wherethey are for their own individual and family
needs really good. They're founded inI think nineteen thirty six, so you
might be planning a ninety year birthdayparty or anniversary or celebration in a couple
of years here, So I assumethis goes really really deep to the degree
(07:39):
that you can. And you've beenthere a long time, but not eighty
seven years, so like, tellme a little bit about the roots as
far as you know. So it'sthe credit union cause is a very fascinating
one because credit unions are very differentthan banks. Credit unions are owned by
our members. We're a financial cooperative. So when you join a credit union,
(08:00):
you're a member and you have ashare in our organization. You are
a member owner, and so wegive you a membership with a dollar in
a savings account, and that isyour that is that is you as an
owner. And so everything that wedo is truly intended to benefit our members
and the community. So the moneywe make, we reinvest it back into
our members in the way of lowerfees, higher savings rates, and ultimately,
(08:26):
you know, this started out.Credit unions really tend to start out
very, very small. You hada group of like five Pacific Telephone and
elect Telephone company individuals who started thiscompany with five hundred dollars, you know,
eighty some odd years ago and justhad a dream of making things better,
right, And credit unions typically startthat way. It's very grassroots.
(08:50):
And so that's where we get Patelcofrom, is the pa Is Pacific and
then the tel Is Telephone and thencompany, so that's Patelco. We're really
proud of our history and our originsand our roots and here in the Bay
Area, you know, we havea long standing history that our members and
communities can trust us. Really goodwere you as you found them or they
(09:16):
found you? How familiar were youwith the story? And how much a
part of your decision to join theorganization was anchored in some of this that
you've been sharing here around the purpose, the alignment, around the purpose and
all that, Like how tangible wasit and what role did it play and
you're committing to join the team,it played that really significant role. I
(09:37):
knew that I had worked for somereally great brands and was just looking for
a change and looking for some growthopportunities, and this opportunity to lead a
marketing team that was smaller in natureand stature, but also to work for
a company that was in the midstof redefining themselves. The Patelco had just
rebranded itself and was really evolving forbeing a rate and you know, a
(10:01):
rate focused brand to being more ofa mission fueled, purpose driven brand.
So moving from rate and fees notonly being about rate and fees, which
is a really important component of photographcredit Union and many credit unions, is
there you know, better rates andlower fees. But we didn't want to
just be that because anyone can saythat. For us, it was about
(10:24):
the heart of it. And soI was really excited to join an organization
that truly believe in that. Ican see that when they talked about their
mission and their purpose and the differencethat they wanted to make, and also
the difference at marketing they wanted tosee marketing make. In addition, I
love that there was so many femalesin leadership here. Our CEO is a
(10:46):
female, Aaron Mende. She's beenhere I think now for ten years and
has really transformed this organization. Andto be able to come from a heavily
male dominated fitness industry world to nowbeing in financial services, which also tends
to be more male dominated as well. To have so many female executives was
(11:09):
really something I was excited and proudof and something that I could look up
to, So that also played afactor in it really wonderful and I think
a lot of folks can recognize andwe talk about this a lot as a
background theme in these conversations. Productfeature. What I heard you say was
something like product features benefits great,you need to have them, but they're
(11:33):
not going to differentiate you in anymeaningful way. Now I'm extending your language
and just making some of my ownto it. You know, no one
can really connect to that message likeand by connecting, I just mean like
truly connect to a message around.You might be attracted by a message of
features, benefits, outcomes, ratesis where is the language here, But
(11:54):
it's not going to break through.It's not going to connect anyone, it's
not going to differentiate you. Ireally appreciate that pivot that was being made
and all the other elements that madethis just such a good place for you
at that time. I would lovefor you to share as much as you
can for people who are thinking inthis way or they're trying to structure an
argument where they want to like me, I'm thinking like maybe a mid level
(12:16):
marketing leader in a mid size firmthat's trying to advocate for some kind of
move like this for the long termbenefit of the organization, as I'm sure
it has been for Patelco. Andwe'll continue to be talk a little bit
about maybe some of the fears orthe dynamics what holds people back from differentiating
through this type of approach versus theconfidence and comfort of But we have good
(12:41):
features and we have good benefits.We should lead with this. Well,
it's finding that right balance. AndI love your question because we still are
accountable, I mean, are wehave product partners that are still accountable for
driving business goals? We have todrive loans, you know, we have
to be able to loan out money. We have to be able to grow
(13:03):
our deposits so we can lend more. I mean, there's that balance.
So it really is figuring out howdo you connect the two how do you
take your brand? Because one timemy CEO asked me, well, what
you know, what's brand to you? And you know you can have There's
no one right answer, right,I mean, brand can be and but
her answer was mission. Our brandis our mission. So her brand's our
(13:26):
mission, and our products and ourservices are outputs of that. They are
just the reasons to believe. Thenyou can bring them together in a way
where when I'm talking about our products, of course I'm talking about a great
fee or sorry, great rate andlower fee or no fees, because i
want you to know we're saving we'rehelping you save money. I'm wanting you
(13:48):
to know you can worry less aboutsomething. I'm I'm connecting these these product
attributes that really matter right to thewhy and what it could mean to a
person in their journey and their financialjourney. So what that could mean is
you know, you don't have towork as hard here, you put more
money in your pocket. We're goingto make it easier for you. Right.
(14:11):
And so there's things about our serviceas well that should be standing out,
because we do have to differentiate ourselves. When I'm reviewing creative from our
agency or for my team and im envision, well, could you remove
our name and put someone else's namethere and if so, this is not
meaningful, right, So what isit about that is that can connect us?
(14:31):
What's different about us? And wechallenge our product partners all the time
on this when they're saying we didn'tget the results we were looking for,
and it's like, but what,you know, what is it about our
product the differentiate? What is itabout this experience? You know? Because
I don't want to just be lipservice and talk about our brand. We
need to have components and give peoplethe reasons to believe in that. And
(14:52):
honestly, our people make all thedifference in the world. That an emotional
connection, the compassion, the empathywe show oh as people are navigating through
life. I mean, that's whattruly needs to also continue to differentiate us.
Okay, again, you gave meso many things that I want to
ask you about. One of them. I'm just going to say them out
(15:13):
loud so maybe we can both remember. One of them is around this compassion
piece. I want to know howyou teach not necessarily you personally, but
even organizationally. I'm sure you doit too within the marketing team, but
how do we essentially, how dowe operationalize that as a dynamic. How
do we operationalize this the differentiating characteristicsof the brand. But where I'd like
(15:39):
to go first is on brand itself. I agree with you that brand can
be defined in a number of ways, so can customer experience. That's one
of the reasons that I asked thatquestion off the top is you know now
that I've asked it well over twohundred probably two hundred and fifty times.
Now you get this diversity of responsesand you look where they converge and diverge.
(16:00):
My observations when we talk about customerexperience and brand, I would love
your reaction to this is that atsome level, the brand is the promises
that we're making, and the experienceis our attempt to deliver on those promises.
Do you buy that in general?And is there anything you would add
to that dynamic between promise and delivery? Yeah? No, I have thousand
(16:23):
percent agree with that. It's whywe work so hard with our team members
because they are a reflection of whowe are. We we could put something
out there, but it's that humaninteraction and it's that experience. It's also
the experience they might have digitally.You know that every touch, it's how
(16:45):
we handled them when they called us, It's how we you know, how
we were received when we sent thatemail or that letter. And so that
connection between you know, experience brandand it being a reflect of who we
are. Ultimately, the way thatI measure that is our member's ability to
(17:07):
be able to tell us and giveus that feedback of while you made a
different Wow, I'm learning from you. I really appreciate how you're educating me
because we do look at ourselves asthose thought leaders as well. So we
want to be there ahead of itto say, hey, here's the scams
that we want you to be awareof, here's the ways we're looking to
protect you. Here we do monthlynewsletter, We do a lot of educational
(17:29):
content because we want them to seeus as not just somebody who's there when
they have a need, but somebodywho's there to help educate them too.
So from an experience perspective, Iultimately want PTELCO to be relevant in so
many different facets of our members' lives, not just when they have a need,
but really when they don't even realizethey do. I mean, that's
what a good friend or anyone supportivein our lives. Does is like helps
(17:52):
us in a proactive manner, likeI've been there. I want to share
this with you, this kind ofa thing. I really appreciate that approach,
educational kind. You have been thinkingon two related things. What is
the scope of marketing at Patelco CreditUnion? Like, what is your scope
of direct And I'm using very aggressivelanguage here that I don't like, but
it's what I have top of mindhere. You know, your scope of
(18:14):
ownership, like what are the zonesthat are your direct responsibility? Obviously your
influence goes well beyond that. Andthen also maybe where does voice of customer
fit into the organization? Obviously isbecause I heard you in that response,
Like one of the ways that youknow you're being effective is when you hear
the types of things you're hoping tohear back here back. So I know
that you're listening to the voice ofthe customer. But I'm wondering that where
(18:37):
that fits into your scope of responsibility. Is something that that's delivered and influences
you in your team or is itsomething you and your team are directly engaged
in. Yeah, no, absolutely, it's a great question. So when
I think about the voice of thecustomer. We're lucky enough here to have
a member experienced team, and soI have a colleague that heads up that
team, and we do work veryclose with that team. Overall, that
(19:00):
team is responsible for helping us understandhow effective we are in with member feedback
that we're getting through surveys that wedo on a regular basis. They're also
instrumental in helping us take some ofthose themes and help inform the organization about
(19:21):
pain points. Here's the problem areas. You know, problems happen, but
how do we react? How dowe respond to a problem? Did we
resolve the problem? So members andcustomers are going to be accepting things happen,
but how did you help me throughthat? And that's what we measure
ourselves on. And that's the feedbackthat our member experienced team shares broadly because
(19:44):
actually, as an organization, ourbonuses, our goals are actually dependent on
that. So how well we've deliveredon our promise is something that as a
company we take very very seriously.So what we've uncovered recently as we are
really digging into all of these youknow, pain points or where our areas
of opportunity are as an organization inresolving our members' problems. A lot of
(20:07):
it comes down to communication, whetherit's a lack of communication, a lack
of follow through, we weren't proactive, maybe not show enough compassion or empathy.
And so marketing is heavily involved ina very critical to helping improve and
(20:27):
enhance that member experience. So Idon't directly own it, but marketing's purview
is ultimately I have a lot ofdisciplines within marketing, but the voice of
the customer does live in another organization, and there's a lot of synergies and
a lot of collaboration that happens.Yeah, as there should be really good.
(20:47):
I appreciate you walking to that,and it's a it's a clear vision
for me, and I want toget into member experience, not necessarily as
an organization and a function per se. But before we do, to hear
anything you have to share, likespecifically, like tips for other people who
are like I really like the waythat she's talking about this. This seems
like something that we wish we weredoing more or better inside our company or
(21:11):
organization or even within our team.Share anything you can about operationalizing and by
that is that, you know,maybe it is just the way that we
recruit and interview and select and hireand on board. Maybe it's a cultural
component or a general ethos within theorganization. I think that's certainly true of
you all. But how do youget compassion and empathy to be in that
(21:37):
zone that we know we need tobe with our customer experience if we are
to deliver on our brand promises,which is consistency. What are like anything
you can share on how to helpour team be more consistent with some of
these really rich human relationship oriented dynamicsthat we want people to feel when they're
(22:00):
on the phone, when they're inperson, uh and and all of these
other interaction points. Sure the theway that I would articulate help people what
people can do in their organizations andtheir departments to make, you know,
to impact cross functionally. Whatever situationyou're in is starts with you. You
(22:26):
got to you got to show up, and you've got to believe. I
think it's really obvious that the teammembers that are all in and are really
feeling like they really feel it,and they're all in, and they've got
the energy to support that, andtheir actions support their words. I think
(22:48):
it's really obvious to tell who thosepeople are versus the ones that aren't.
And so for for me, itstarts with me as a leader. It
starts and how I show up.It starts in knowing what I want to
be and how I want to beperceived. It's setting a tone for my
team, you know, how doI want to show up and also for
my peers. So I'm a vicepresident here at Patelco. There are the
(23:15):
the We have an executive team that'smade up of I think eight individuals and
then the vice presidents and so there'sabout thirty of us. So we're incredibly
influential organizationally, and we have abouteight hundred employees total. And so for
me, what I've seen the biggestdifference is leading by example. I've also
created what I call sort of asubculture within our culture. I appreciate the
(23:37):
culture of Patelco, and I alsobelieve that our marketing culture and my group
of seventeen eighteen people who started outas six people seven years ago, you
know, we are like a familyand it is a very high performing,
highly functioning, very well respected teambecause they show up and they lead by
(24:00):
example and so I always tell them, you know, when they're doing with
you know, challenging situations, challengingpartners, is you know, you know,
be the better, you know,set that example, like don't do
just because someone has done, likerise above, because I want I tell
my team, you know, you'rea reflection of me, and I'm a
reflection. I want to make myteam proud. And then I tell them,
(24:22):
even though you're an individual contributor,you're representing our marketing department as a
whole. So how you choose toshow up is a reflection on who we
are as a department. And soI think it's that idea of really being
in touch with you as a leader, you know, and taking feedback.
I will say, one of thebiggest gifts I've ever received, even though
(24:45):
at the time and over the yearsit's been it was much much harder,
is feedback. Feedback is a giftand when you recognize that, it's a
gift and it's not something to takepersonal because I used to take everything personal,
very emotional, out of a veryemotional reaction because I cared so much.
But you can still care so muchand take feedback and no, as
(25:11):
long as your motives are pure,and that's what I tell my team two.
You know, check yourself, yourmotives up here, and always assume
good intent from others, right.And so for me, those are kind
of the consistent messages that I conveythat I remind myself when I'm getting frustrated
with a colleague, a situation,even my manager. Those types of messages
(25:36):
keep replaying. So many good ideasin there, and more importantly, good
practices. I appreciate that you immediatelywent to It starts with me, it
starts with what I model, butyou also added some kind of coaching elements
in there as well, like here'sa little process for you to make sure
that you're coming from the right place. Check yourself really quick. And then
(25:59):
also this idea of you know,it's a reflection on you personally as a
leader, but it's also a reflectionon the other members of the team at
some level too, This idea ofhigh performing team that has a family type
vibe in it as well. You'reaccountable to everybody on the team when that
dynamic is full and healthy. Iso appreciate that, and it's one of
(26:22):
the reasons that we talk so muchabout employee experience in these conversations and you
just did without using the language becauseI just didn't frame it that way.
But the customer experience is absolutely andcompletely a reflection of the type of mindset
and modeled behavior and encouragement and tonethat you just walk through. Really really
(26:44):
appreciate that. I want to goback a little bit to the twenty four
hour fitness and visa, Like youhad this like really interesting range of responsibilities
from brand. There was some productmarketing in there. I think there was
like you just just walk through thata little bit, and maybe what you
(27:06):
took out of that that was maybesurprisingly helpful as you stepped at some level
into a new industry and certainly withindo a new organization. Yeah. Now
I actually have had I've been luckyenough to have really great experiences through my
career. I've also been laid offin my career. I've also had a
tough time finding a job in mycareer during the recession back in twenty two
(27:32):
thousand and whenever that was. Butyou know, for me personally, the
visa experience really gave me a lotof opportunity to look at the customer,
to look at the value prop towork with partners so I started out actually
(27:53):
working on the promotion side of thebusiness. And so for me, what
was helpful was actually working in thesedifferent business unit. So I started out
in promotions, so I got reallygood experience working on campaigns and promotions and
incentives and working with fun sports brandsand and and partner affiliates, and you
(28:14):
know, then moved into product marketingand got really great exposure, really great
leadership, and got to understand alot more around positioning products. You know,
Visa as a brand, but Visasalso it's you know, it's a
payments vehicle, but it's a brandthat stood for so much and I could
I would never be able to articulateit. And so I learned a lot.
(28:37):
I grew a lot from a brandperspective at Visa, which was super
helpful, and got product experience,promotions experience, and also got experience working
on some new innovative areas that todayis just table stakes, like mobile.
You know, I partnered with alarge financial institution to launch our first mobile
(29:03):
offer pilot. You know, Ilaunched Visa contact Lists, We rebranded it
to pay with like so these thingsin these different areas. Visa merged with
Visa USA merged with Visa International andI was part of that experience, which
then took me into a global role, and so suddenly I was Visa Mobile
and part of Visa Innovations team.So for me being able to play different
(29:27):
hats and really expand myself and challengemyself to work with different leaders, different
personalities, different partners, that hasbeen incredibly helpful to knowing what I like,
what I don't like, areas ofopportunity, dealing with difficult situations.
And then at twenty four hour Fitness, it became a breath of fresh air
(29:47):
because now it just felt lighter.It's all about health and fitness. But
then you're dealing with another situation ofyou know, now we have four hundred
locations and we're opening new localtions.But where you know, you've got all
these different areas of your business,you're trying to drive new members, you're
trying to keep the ones you have. It was just a totally different business
(30:11):
model. So that was also thatis where I at that time. By
the time I left, I thinkI had about eighty percent of the marketing
team reporting into me, So itwas responsible for everything from acquisition to retention
to our personal training programs to ourI partner, I was the relationship partner
(30:33):
for we'd sponsored the Denver Broncos atthe time, so I managed that partner
side partnership marketing as well. Sothere was a whole lot of areas as
well as field marketing. So howdo you engage four hundred clubs and club
managers to support your mission, yourcause, your marketing? I mean it
was. It was a lot offun. Probably way better shape back then
(30:56):
than I am now, which iswhat happens when you work for a fitness
company. But it really I thinkthose two experiences together really set the stage
for my next role. Which funnystory, I didn't even know who the
hiring employer was when I responded tothe job opening. So you read a
blind blinded description of the opportunity.You're like, I like this side of
(31:21):
that opportunity. I said, Ithink I can do that. It sounds
a little bit bigger than what I'vedone before, but you know what the
heck, let me give it ashot. I knew it was local and
that was important for me, butyeah, they didn't have it. I
didn't find out the company name untila recruiter called me and followed up with
me awesome, and then it turnedout to be all the things that you
(31:41):
really wanted to see and hear interms of leadership, culture, purpose,
values, et cetera. Thank youfor sharing all that. I wanted to
ask you specifically about the four hundredlocations, just in the spirit of so
much of the experience relative to thebrand is delivered locally in that environment.
(32:06):
I was wondering if you had anytips around creating consistent experience, like how
do you even track and or improveconsistency across hundreds of locations when you know,
I wouldn't quite call I'd be interestedin your take on this too,
I wouldn't quite call you know,twenty four hour fitness commoditized as a space.
(32:29):
I mean, there're certainly in anytime, like I'm in Colorado Springs,
and there are like you know,there are a couple like local things,
and then there are a couple likeyou know, twenty four hour fitness
in a couple like larger chains.So it's not pure commodity, but there's
definitely like intense competition, and sothe experience, in my observation is that
(32:50):
is the differentiator. And so howdo you create some of that, and
you're also selling like national access waspart of the part of the thing too,
Like we can come to any ofthese And of course, you know
a question I'll ask you later isa brand that delivers a great experience for
you as a customer And one that'scome up a number of times is Chick
fil A wish you can use ifyou want to. And the story is
(33:12):
very often around this. It doesn'tmatter where I am in the country,
I show up and I know thatI'm going to get what I want.
I know it's going to be ofgreat quality. You know, the people
that I engage with in that processare going to be very consistently friendly.
And so anyway, that's a verylong way around a short question, which
is any tips around creating consistency inbrand or experience across hundreds of geographically diverse
(33:38):
locations and a human to human experience. Yeah, that is a great question,
and that was You're right, incrediblychallenging when I was at twenty four
fitness. The best thing we cando is to be consistent with what we
were asking our leadership of these branchor of these clubs to do right on
(34:00):
these gems. How do we differentiateourselves, right, and so the way
we differentiate ourselves and making sure thatwe have that really close connection. So
whether it be through ongoing monthly groundtables or you know, that communication flow
between marketing and the clubs as wellas their leadership. What is that consistent
message. What are we doing froma marketing perspective that's supporting the way that
(34:23):
they're interacting with the customers at thegyms and whatnot. I would say though,
really giving them the autonomy to ownit, right, because that's part
of it. We set the stage. Here's your foundation, here's what we're
really proud of. And to yourpoint, now you get to deliver that
(34:45):
and you get to deliver it ina way that's unique to you. And
the ones that they're the most successfulare the ones where they know the people
that come in, you know,those people that are the regular folks,
they have made a difference in theirlives. You know, somebody that believed
in them. I mean the thingabout twenty for our fitness. At the
time when I worked there was therewas a lot of boutique gyms that were
coming out and boutique facilities and eventhe you know, the crossfits of the
(35:08):
world were just starting out, andit was you know, wow, do
people realize what they pay for it? At twenty four? Our fitness gives
them access to that and so muchmore. But what is it about it
that they want? Well, theymight want that smaller, more intimate experience.
Well, how do we create thatwithin our walls, but yet give
them all these extra benefits. Sohere's the framework, here's our guardrails of
(35:30):
who we are as a brand,how we talk about ourselves, and then
you have the flexibility to create thatuniqueness because every market's different. That's what's
hard. Every market is different,and the needs of you know, a
gym that's in Colorado Springs in acertain neighborhood and the you know, the
demographics of that may be very differentthan the gym that's in upstate New York,
(35:53):
you know. And so I can'ttell you from my marketing you know,
Ivory Tower, how to run yourbusiness because your you know your customers
and customer's best. I actually don't, and I will never I will never
act as if I do. Butwell I will promise you is I will
(36:14):
make sure that you have the toolsand that you have the support of a
brand that backs you on the visionthat you want to create for your location.
So being able to customize for theirfor their customers, for their communities,
and for their neighborhoods, giving themthat flexibility is really, to be
honest, what I've found was themost effective way. And it's hard and
(36:35):
and and there's it's really hard tofind strong leaders out there who want to
do that. So much good stuffin there too, specifically, the call
straight back to the open that Iwrote that you've just fulfilled wonderfully, which
is about authenticity and uniqueness. Thisidea of it is a local market.
We're going to provide it. AndI love your language of guardrails. We're
going to give you some uh,We're going to give you plenty of support.
(36:59):
We're going to give you the frame, the framework or the guardrails that
and give you the freedom to operatein it in a way that's authentic to
you and super relevant and unique andspecific to your local market. So well
done. So another question that Ithink is pretty simple, but maybe it
isn't. Is there a difference inyour experience and in your view between customer
(37:21):
experience and member experience? Is thisjust different language and we're talking about a
slightly different relationship with the customer.How much of a how much of a
twist does the cooperative model and themembership model create or or are they really
much more parallel and it is moreof a language thing. Such a great
(37:43):
question. I don't think it's alanguage thing. I think some people may.
The reason I don't is that itfeels different to be part of a
membership. Is you're part of agroup with collective beliefs, in my opinion,
and you're part of something bigger.So we are cooperative, we are
a community, we are team memberswho believe. We are people who are
(38:07):
where you live, where you work, delivering products and services that we hope
make a difference in your lives.And so for me, with members you're
not treated like you are just thatnumber. You know that you are just
an account holder. You know,we really are. There's more of a
connection there, and it's it's reallywhen I hear someone say customer, if
(38:30):
I'm working with an agency partner andthey say customer, I immediately just have
this like, oh my gosh,do you not know us? Like you
know? So they slipped up,But it feels so different to me it
feels rigid, it feels like youdon't know who I am. You know,
and it's not wrong. You know, you consume products and services,
(38:54):
you know we help you, andbut but it does. It has a
different sentiment. So our members arenot customers and it's more than just lingo
to us. Yeah, I reallyappreciate that lesson right in there, which
is, if we are to makepeople feel the way we want them to,
if we are to deliver a remarkableexperience, it is to make people
(39:16):
feel seen, heard, understood,appreciated, valued, that they belong here.
And the language does make a veryvery big difference. And you know,
it's generally a lot of us wouldcall that a marketing tip, but
I think it transcends marketing. Islike, if we are to make people
feel welcome, we want to speaktheir language. It still needs to be
true to us, that needs tobe authentic to us. We're not going
(39:38):
to contort and be different people todifferent people. There needs to be some
truth shared in the middle there.But it's just a sign of respect and
understanding to make people feel welcome throughlanguage. If you are enjoying this conversation
with Rena as I am, Iwant to point you too. I'm actually
going to point you to three otherepisodes because I couldn't pull one of these
(39:59):
three out if you're interested in thecooperative model and more conversation about member experience.
Episode two hundred and eleven with JasonChampion. He shifted from a twenty
year career as a salesperson. Hegot involved in some journey mapping and some
other projects and eventually became the directorof Member Experience at NRTC, which is
(40:20):
a cooperative of utilities serving primarily ruralAmerica. So that's episode two eleven with
Jason Champion. We talk a lotabout member experience there and the cooperative model.
A little more recently, episode twothirty nine with Shannon Barry, the
vice president of Customer Experience at TitleI, through a Title insurance company.
We talked a lot about the powerof culture. Culture is a strategic anchor
(40:43):
for your entire business and really buildingCX from the inside out and having customer
experience be a direct consequence of employeeexperience again, living it from the inside
out. So that's two thirty ninewith Shannon, and then immediately thereafter episode
two forty with Caitlin dr who's thesenior vice president of customer Experience at Bucy,
a bank based out of Illinois.We anchored a good part of that
(41:08):
conversation about their one hundred and fiftyyear old brand promise and the way that
they're still bringing it to life everyday today. So if you're interested in
this legacy, mission, purpose valuesaspect of our time together today, you'll
enjoy two forty with Caitlin Drake.So with that, Rena, thank you
for waiting through those to share withme two things that I always love to
(41:29):
hear. One of them is aperson for you to thank or mention who's
had a positive impact on your lifeor career, and the other is a
company or brand that delivers a greatexperience for you as a customer. I've
been noodling on this question for solong because I can give a whole laundry
list of people from some of thementors that I had early on, the
(41:51):
great managers that I had career wise, they were the ones I've been the
most influential, gave me the confidence, taught me a lot, They were
my friend ends. I will saysome of the most fantastic, most successful
people I've ever worked with. I'vebeen very good friends with them, and
they were my leaders, they weremy managers, and so we would spend
time outside of the office as wellas in the office. So to me,
(42:14):
I'm not going to name just oneperson, but I had fantastic leaders
even at companies I didn't. Iworked at a company called News America Marketing
before I started working for Visa,and you know, I worked there for
two years and it was a greatexperience, and some of the leaders there
really I still, you know,think back to those days. Same thing
at Visa and same thing, youknow, as I'm here now. So
(42:36):
for me, it was really youknow, as a leader, we play
such important roles in the experience.We can deliver to our team who and
then turn delivers to the ultimate customeror members. And so I've never taken
for granted the role that I playin my team's lives because they spend a
lot of time with us here atwork. But for me personally, it
(42:57):
would be my mom. She passedaway sadly from brain cancer two and a
half years ago. But I wasalways the independent, kind of black sheep
of the family, less traditional,did take the traditional route, but she
was always so proud of me andalways said how proud of me she was.
And really, I think me beinga strong, independent, you know,
(43:21):
master of multitasking, single mom oftwo is really because of the strength
and compassion she instilled in me.And she had a lot of compassion for
people, and so I think therewas so much she worked really hard as
a mom of five, and alot of her work ethics, her values
definitely have brought I've brought that allinto the workplace. So that absolutely from
(43:45):
a personal perspective. And then yourlast question was a company or brand that
delivers a great experience for you asa customer. Oh, you know,
it's kind of funny because I mean, I've got to say in and out
because in and out, you knowCalifornia based chain, you know, hamburger
chain and fast food chain, butI think they've expanded outside. The thing
(44:08):
is you always wait. You don'texpect it to be a fast experience,
right, which is what's funny becausepeople are so impatient these days. But
you know that, and they consistentlydeliver great tasting burger. You know what
you're gonna get. It's one ofthose things where it's like it's just a
treat. Every time you go,and I think that is they have a
(44:30):
very simple business model and it's incrediblyeffective and they've got a very loyal following
as a result, and so inand out standing out for me right now
really good and I don't think thosetwo things can be peeled apart. The
loyalty and the simplicity and consistency.I think those are all part of the
same package. They're really well doneand beautifully done with your mom as well.
(44:53):
If someone wants to learn more aboutyou, connect with you maybe and
learn more about Patelco Credit Union.Where would you send them, Rina,
Patelco dot org is how you wouldlearn about our credit union. I hope
you come check us out. Asfar as connecting with me, I'm on
LinkedIn. Feel free to make thatconnection and would love to speak with more
(45:15):
folks, learn new things and makesome new introductions, So please reach out.
Awesome. She is Rena Johnson.I am Ethan Butte. Hit both
of us up on LinkedIn. Rena, thank you so much for your time
today. I really appreciate what you'redoing, the spirit that you're doing it
with, and the approach that you'remodeling that I know will result in someone
(45:36):
offering your name at this moment,at a podcast in the future. Well,
I appreciate the opportunity. It's reallybeen a pleasure to spend time talking
to you, so thank you somuch for having me every single day.
You're entrusting some of your most importantand most valuable messages to plain black text
on a plain white screen, tofaceless, typed out text. It doesn't
(45:58):
differentiate you, it doesn't build trustand rapport, and it doesn't convey feelings,
thoughts, arguments, ideas or detailsnearly as well as you do.
As a result, your customer experience, employee experience, and business outcomes suffer.
So it's time to put you backinto your digital communication. It's time
(46:20):
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.