September 25, 2024 • 46 mins
Jessica Chen, an Emmy-winning journalist, and CEO of Soulcast Media, shares her journey from intern to an award-winning reporter and successful entrepreneur, offering valuable lessons for listeners aiming to achieve their own success. She emphasizes the critical role of communication skills, especially in fast-paced environments, and how mastering proactive, concise messaging can lead to professional growth. Through her own experiences, including winning an Emmy for her wildfire coverage, Jessica underscores the value of teamwork and leveraging social media, like LinkedIn, to build connections. Listen to her story and choose which action will help you most today.
ACTION PRINCIPLES
Pick one thing to do this week:
- Develop better communication skills. Speaking and writing well is essential in every career. ACTION: Choose a communication-related skill you want to improve upon and practice it weekly.
- Consider the ROI of your time. There's only so much time available, so spend it wisely on activities that will help you reach your goals faster. ACTION: Determine your most valuable activities and allocate 80% of your day to them.
- Be strategic with social media. Your message should be clear and consistent, and it should be shared on the platform that reaches your ideal target audience. ACTION: Evaluate which social media platform(s) your target audience uses most and create a consistent presence there.
- Celebrate your wins. Acknowledging your progress in a positive, fun way will boost your motivation to keep going. ACTION: When you have a "win" moment, call a friend to share the good news and celebrate with them.
GUEST RESOURCES
Learn more about Jessica Chen by following her on LinkedIn. You can also purchase her book, Smart, Not Loud: How to Get Noticed at Work for All the Right Reasons.
SUGGESTED LINKEDIN LEARNING COURSE:
Time Management Fundamentals
Dave Crenshaw develops productive leaders in Fortune 500 companies, universities, and organizations of every size. He has appeared in Time magazine, USA Today, FastCompany, and the BBC News. His courses on LinkedIn Learning have been viewed tens of millions of times. His five books have been published in eight languages, the most popular of which is The Myth of Multitasking—a time management bestseller. As an author, speaker, and online instructor, Dave has transformed the lives and careers of hundreds of thousands around the world. DaveCrenshaw.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jessica Chen (00:00):
Wherever you get your first job in news, you want
it to be in a small city,because if you make a mistake,
no one's watching.
Dave Crenshaw (00:10):
That's a good point.
Unknown (00:10):
It's true.
Dave Crenshaw (00:11):
In this episode, you'll get to know Jessica Chen,
the Emmy winning communicator,and you'll hear the story of how
she climbed the ranks ofjournalism from intern to award
winning reporter to author andLinkedIn learning instructor.
I'm Dave Crenshaw, and this ismy success Show. Welcome back
(00:34):
friends to the Dave CrenshawSuccess Show. This is where I
interview some of the mostsuccessful people I've met in my
life's journey, and I'm on amission to find universal
principles of success. Iinitially started this show to
help my children succeed, and Ithought, well, you'd like to
enjoy learning along with them.
So now I'm sharing it with you.
(00:55):
If it's your first time here,you're not familiar with me. I'm
a best selling author. I speakaround the world of fortune, 500
companies, and I've taughtmillions of people how to be
successful through my onlinecourses, particularly my courses
on LinkedIn. Learning this showis about creating something
lasting, creating a legacy tohelp my family. But I thought
you'd enjoy it too. And I'mlooking for people who have
(01:18):
multifaceted success in manyareas of their lives, not just
career or financial success, andmy guest today fits that
criteria. Before we dive intothe interview, I always like to
ask, if you know of someone whomight make a great guest who has
that multifaceted success, youcan email your suggestion to
(01:38):
guest at Dave crenshaw.com andalso, as you listen to today's
episode, listen for somethingyou can do. Don't just be
inspired, don't just gainknowledge. Those are great
things. But look for an actionyou can take this week to make
my guest success story a part ofyour success story. And my guest
today is certainly interesting.
Jessica Chen is the CEO ofsoulcast media, where she offers
(02:02):
training in cross culturalcommunications and workplace
confidence. Her clients includeGoogle, LinkedIn, Mattel Harvard
Business School, DraftKings andthe CDC, an Emmy Award receiving
journalist. Her work has beenfeatured in Forbes, Fortune
entrepreneur and Market WatchJessica's communication courses
(02:24):
on LinkedIn. Learning have over2 million learners. Her book
smart, not loud. How to getnoticed at work for all the
right reasons. Is a guide on howto authentically show up, speak
up and truly feel seen at work.
Jessica lives in Orange County,California with her husband and
(02:46):
her son. Jessica, thank you somuch for being on the show
today.
Jessica Chen (02:50):
Well, thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled
to be here. Yeah, and
Dave Crenshaw (02:54):
I've really enjoyed looking at your courses
on LinkedIn learning and Wow,your posts on LinkedIn are so
popular, people love what you'resharing with them, so you're a
great example of communicationas well as being an expert in
it.
Jessica Chen (03:07):
Yeah, LinkedIn has been great, and I'm I mean,
that's how we connected, right?
So the power of LinkedIn, well,
Dave Crenshaw (03:13):
and especially the family of instructors on
LinkedIn learning I've reallyenjoyed the connections that
I've made with other LinkedInlearning instructors. So I'm
thrilled to have you here. Whereare we reaching you today?
Jessica Chen (03:25):
I'm dialing in form from California,
specifically Orange County.
California. It's where my familyand I are, and we've been here
for about a few years now.
Dave Crenshaw (03:34):
That's a wonderful area, as we mentioned
before. I was born in OrangeCounty. I love that area. So
let's dive into your story.
Jessica and I always like to askmy guests the same question,
which is a question that we allkind of get asked as we're
growing up. But as I'm askingthis, I'm thinking in terms of,
like, your high school years,what did you want to be when you
grew up?
Jessica Chen (03:56):
It's the question that I always think about. It
induces so much stress andanxiety for a lot of young
students, because it's aquestion that parents ask them
all the time, what do you wantto be when you grow up? Well,
ironically, even in high school,I was actually pretty clear in
terms of what I wanted to be. Inthat sense, I've always wanted
(04:19):
to be a journalist. I've alwayswanted to be specifically a
television journalist. So evenin high school, we didn't have,
of course, like a studentbroadcasting program back then,
but we did have a newspaper andwe had yearbook, right? So for
me, I signed up to be a part ofthose programs, and that really
kind of got my journalism juicesflowing. And that's when I
(04:41):
decided, really, then and there,that this was a quote, unquote
industry I wanted to pursue.
Which
Dave Crenshaw (04:46):
came first? Was it the classes, or was it
someone that you saw orsomething you read about
journalism or learned about itthat made you excited about it?
Well,
Jessica Chen (04:56):
here's a funny story. So we're gonna go way
back to when I was. About fiveor six years old. So one of the
funny family traditions that wehad growing up, and I don't know
if family, I mean, I'm gonnaassume maybe families don't do
this so much anymore, but about,you know, 25 some years ago, you
know, families would gathertogether and watch the news like
(05:16):
this was before the iPads theiPhones, right? And I remember
distinctly this was my family'stradition. We would all sit
around and watch The 10 O'ClockNews together, and this was when
we were in the Bay Area, that'swhere I grew up. And I remember
my parents would always jokinglysay, oh, Jessica, when you
become an adult, you should workon the news like them, so we can
(05:40):
see you every day and know thatyou're safe. Obviously, to a
five and six year old at thetime, it didn't mean much then,
but I will say it's little seedsof ideas like that that just get
kind of like implanted in yourhead. And by no means was that
why I went into journalism, butit certainly got me curious. And
then, of course, you're watchingthem, and then you're like, Wow.
(06:02):
You know, those folks are sowell spoken, so well put
together, like they'redelivering the news. And I
started getting curious. Yeah,
Dave Crenshaw (06:11):
it at least opened up that idea of you
thinking, Wait, what is this?
Should I do this? That is aninteresting thing to say to a
five or six year old, thoughmaybe you already showed some
ability to speak confidently infront of them, perhaps.
Jessica Chen (06:25):
Well, here's another funny thing. So back
then, all of us had, like, thehome phones, where we had the
voice answering machine, right?
It's not like on our phones. AndI remember my parents actually
had me record our family's likevoicemail. So it was like, you
know, thank you for calling theChen residents, right? And then
I was, I was the one announcingit, and I remember my parents
(06:46):
saying that a lot of theirfriends who would call our house
would say, Oh, is that yourdaughter? Her voice is very
clear. And again, a smallcompliment. But, you know, to a
young child, you're like, Oh, Idid something good.
Dave Crenshaw (06:59):
Yeah. The funny thing about this is, at the end
of every episode, Jessica, mydaughter Darcy, does the the
credits for it, and she's alsovery confident, very well spoken
and expresses really well. Sowho knows, maybe we've started
her on a path of being ajournalist like you. So where
(07:21):
did it go from high school,you're doing that and you're
enjoying being in that class. Sois that something that you
pursued in college? Was that thedegree that you went after?
Jessica Chen (07:30):
So I ended up going to school at UC San Diego,
and ironically, UC San Diegodoes not have a journalism
program, and that was sort ofdisappointing, because I was
interested in it. But I willsay, the four years I was there,
it was an opportunity for me tostart to explore like, is this
(07:52):
actually an industry that I wantto do there? I mean, there
certainly is no program. Sobecause there was no journalism
major, what I ended up majoringin was actually International
Studies. And I actually thoughtthat that was a good option.
Because if I wanted to be a realjournalist one day, I wanted to
be an internationalcorrespondent. I wanted to work
(08:14):
for big networks overseas, inAsia, Europe, wherever, right?
So I was like, Okay, well,majoring international studies
would be great, but because UCSan Diego did not have a
journalism program, and I waslike, You know what? Let me just
see what this is about. So I gotan internship at the fox five
station in San Diego,California, and that was for the
(08:38):
very first time where I said,this is what I want to do. I'm
suddenly surrounded byjournalists, producers, and they
are doing work that constantlyimpressed me. And it wasn't just
like the work of like puttingnews together and how they
gathered it. It was them beingable to go out and be a part of
the story, tell the stories, andabove all, make a difference. So
(09:02):
once I graduated, that's when Iwas like, I want to be a
journalist. So not an internanymore. I want to I want a job
as a journalist at a newsstation.
Dave Crenshaw (09:12):
So typically, they don't let an intern just
jump right out in the field. Sowhat sort of tasks were they
having you do, and what sort ofthings were you learning as an
intern that was sort ofpreparing you for that
opportunity?
Jessica Chen (09:26):
Yes, you're right.
Certainly they're not putting anintern on live television. So as
an intern, what you're reallydoing is you're behind the
scenes, and you are, let's sayyou're doing some research. So
like, in addition to thereporters covering their own
individual stories. Youtypically see the anchors on TV,
and they're reading stories, andthey're going story by story by
story. I mean, we all know it,we all see it, but somebody has
(09:48):
to write that. Typically, it's aproducer who writes that. But as
an intern, you know, they,they'll have us interns kind of
practice writing the script, andthen they'll. Revise it, but it
gives us a good idea of how towrite in the broadcast style,
which was something I learnedbecause writing an email in that
style, or writing an essay or along form newsletter is
(10:12):
completely different from howyou write a broadcast news show.
You have to write it in the wayyou're basically talking. And
that was a training that Icouldn't get in school because
we didn't have a journalismprogram. But I certainly was
surrounded by some amazing,generous reporters and anchors
who were saying, Oh, you want totry to use these kinds of words
(10:33):
instead of this kind of word,like, you want to write it in
like this way. So that's kind ofwhere I started the learning and
then one of the coolest partswas you get to go out onto the
field and shadow them as they'rein the news van, and you're
riding with them in the newsvan, kind of going from place to
place. And I loved that. Ithought that was so exciting.
Dave Crenshaw (10:55):
Was there someone who was a mentor to you during
this time, or someone that youreally wanted to follow their
example, is there a story thatstands out in your mind, that
illustrates that there were so
Jessica Chen (11:07):
many in and I feel very fortunate, because I
wouldn't say there was like amentor who Shepherd me along the
way, I think, and maybe it's thecredit to that particular news
station. I just felt likeeverybody there was a lot of the
reporters at the time were quiteyoung, like they were like, in
their like, mid to late 20s,early 30s. So everybody had this
(11:27):
like, fun young vibe. And thenyou have like, a 19 year old,
you know, who was wanting tolearn. Because these folks are
still pretty fresh in theindustry, too. But you know, I
felt like everybody there was sosupportive, and any questions
that I had, they certainlyhelped with. I mean, I do
remember that I had this onementor who did teach me the
(11:48):
power of using your voice, notin the sense of like, Oh,
speaking up, but just like thesound of your voice and how you
can utilize it. And it's notjust like what you sound like,
but it's like tone of voice,right, and how you can modulate
it, and even things like bodylanguage, right? Like, I grew up
in a pretty conservative Asianhome, and we certainly were not
(12:10):
taught things like tone of voiceand body language. And so
learning that it was there waslike an art to it was, was quite
fascinating, and it really gotme learning about communications
in that way. It's like, how canyou speak so people listen,
because it's not just about thewords, really. It's like, how
you deliver it.
Dave Crenshaw (12:29):
One thing we kind of share in common, Jessica is I
have a little bit of backgroundin similar area. My father was a
radio talk show host, which isvery much news driven, right?
And it's a production area, andmy dad would talk to me about,
for example, the importance ofsmiling while you're talking,
even if it's on radio, becausepeople can hear that, even
(12:51):
though they can't see it. So Icompletely agree with you, and I
think that's something that evenmore now, is so important,
because everybody's on videonow, right? Everybody's
broadcasting in some way. Whatare some skills that you think
would help people with thatmore?
Jessica Chen (13:10):
Well, it's funny that you mentioned that, because
when you and I were talkingabout LinkedIn learning, the
first course I had ever createdwith LinkedIn learning was
developing executive presence onvideo calls. And this came out
about three months before thepandemic, and once the pandemic
hit, everybody was locked downand doing video calls. And
you're right, Dave, in manyways, we are broadcasting
(13:32):
because we're speaking on video.
Typically people don't think ofit that way, but you're talking
to a camera, even though theremight be like, two, 310, people
in that, in that Zoom, or teamsmeeting, in many ways it is, you
know. So, I mean, I would justsay, if you're asking, like,
what's one quick tip? I mean, Iwill say, of course, a good
microphone really does make adifference, because it's audio
as well. But just thinking aboutyour background, right? Like,
(13:54):
what are you showing? What areyou not showing? And I think
being intentional about it canactually be strategic, because,
trust me, if your camera's on,people are looking. People are
wondering, what is that pile oflaundry behind you or or what's
that award that you have on youron your shelf? You know, people
are curious. So I would saythat's just like one quick tip.
(14:15):
I always like to remind people,if you're still on video calls
at work. Think about a yes, amicrophone, but two, what is
your background showing?
Dave Crenshaw (14:25):
Yeah, exactly. So when was your first break? When
did you transition from being anintern to being an actual
reporter, journalist?
Jessica Chen (14:35):
So I graduated UC San Diego in 2010 and then a few
months later, I got my first jobat the NBC station in Reno
Nevada. And people were like,Reno Nevada, like, That's so
random, but this is the internalkind of like joke in the
industry. It's wherever you getyour first job in news, you want
(14:59):
it to be in a. Small city,because if you make a mistake,
no one's watching.
Dave Crenshaw (15:05):
Oh, that's a good point. It's
Jessica Chen (15:06):
true. I mean, not that no one's watching the news
in Reno, but it's a small citylike, versus, if you make a
mistake in the market, in LosAngeles, where there's millions
of people, or San Francisco orNew York City, you you make one
like, huge mistake, then oh mygosh, everyone see. So for me,
that's where I started out. AndI was, I felt so happy, because
my hope was, I didn't want to govery far, because coming from
(15:28):
California, I really wanted tostay on the west coast. So
getting that job in Nevada, Iwas like, This is what like a
four hour drive from the BayArea and and it was great. I
learned a lot there.
Dave Crenshaw (15:40):
You paint a picture for those who are not
familiar of what is happeningbehind the scenes in a news
station. What is that like?
Jessica Chen (15:49):
It's total chaos.
No, yes, but a newsroom is kindof like how you would imagine
it. I mean, there's your typicaltables and chairs where the
reporters and producers aresitting, but typically in a
traditional newsroom, you havekind of, like, what we call the
command center, and it's whereyou have all your fire police,
like all those like radios thatsomebody is listening in the
(16:13):
command center. Becausetypically those who are sitting
in the command center, they'rewatching and listening like,
what are first respondersresponding to? So if it's like a
fire that broke out that's huge,or like a huge shooting, for
example, like they need to beknowing, like what's going on in
real time, so they're constantlylistening to that. So if you can
(16:34):
imagine a newsroom has a lot ofthat radio broadcast of like
first responders and that kindof communication. But not only
that, everybody is always on thephone. As a reporter, you're on
the phone because you're tryingto call people to do interviews
with them, to kind of sourceinformation, to gather
information, and then,similarly, producers are also on
(16:55):
the phone talking to thereporters who are now out on the
field, because you need thisconstant communications, a lot
of clicking of the keyboards, soit's just a very fast paced
environment, and you got peoplerunning around, the
photographers, and it's veryexciting, if you like that fast
paced environment.
Dave Crenshaw (17:15):
It brings me to a question for you personally,
which is, in an environment likethat. How do you manage your own
stress? And I'm not just askingthis from a mental well being,
I'm asking it from a timemanagement standpoint. That's
what my courses are about onLinkedIn, learning most of them,
and I understand from my workthat switching attention from
(17:39):
one thing to something else isincredibly stressful, and that's
a career, an environment that'sdriven by attention switches. So
personally, how did you managethat? Or was it a problem for
you? Or did you feel completelycomfortable in that kind of
hectic environment?
Jessica Chen (17:57):
I think at the end of the day, you have like,
something you got to accomplishat the end of the day, and in
the newsroom, probably similarto radio, you're driven by
deadlines, and the deadlines areoften by certain hours, by the
five o'clock, six o'clocknewscast. So in some sense, you
can't be distracted by all thatloud, chaotic noise around you,
(18:17):
because at the end of the dayyou got to deliver something. So
if you are constantly just kindof like not being able to manage
your time well, or or gettingdistracted at the end of the
day, it's going to affect you,and you're not going to make
that time slot. That's what wecall it. You're not going to
make your time slot. And that'slike the worst thing that can
happen in television. So, yeah,I don't know, you know, I think
(18:40):
for I think back to when I wassitting in those newsrooms and
when others are sitting in thenewsroom. Yeah, I think people
are just focused. I'm
Dave Crenshaw (18:47):
also referring to the relentless nature of the
news cycle, and I've dealt withthis recently as someone who
tries to be active on socialmedia. And there was a time
where I was trying to respond tocurrent events, and when
something would happen in thenews, I would try to comment on
it, and it just became thistreadmill that never ended, and
(19:10):
you don't spend as much time onthat. Now, do you feel relief
that you're not spending that ordo you still crave the
relentless nature of newsstories. The
Jessica Chen (19:22):
way I see it is, yeah, it's this constant
treadmill where it never ends,like news, for example, is 24/7
and in some ways, maybe work forsome of us can feel 24/7 right?
And I think if that is thesituation we're in, like it's
really two things. It's like yougotta protect your time in terms
(19:42):
of knowing what is mostimportant to you. And I think
it's a very personal question,but it's like understanding,
like, okay, if I'm gonna look atthis or invest my time in
working on this, writing this,researching that, right? Like,
what's the ROI here? And ROIdoesn't have to be necessarily.
Necessarily something, you know,quantitative it can be like,
(20:02):
because I'm just trulyinterested in it, and it excites
me, right? But if it's somethingthat it's like, not that
important, or high on thepriority list, or the, you know,
the return on investment is notthere, then maybe now is not the
time to do it, right? And Ialways say, like, if it's
something that you're reallyinterested in or you really want
to do, you'll find a way to getback at it, like I really do.
(20:23):
And sometimes that's the beautyof giving yourself time. It's
like, there's many distractionsout there, many things that are
like, you know, trying to grabour attention. And I feel like,
if you let something go, letthat idea go, or let that
curiosity go, and it comes backto you, then maybe that's
something that I like. You knowwhat that is? Something I do
want to look into, because atthe end of the day, we can't do
(20:44):
everything. We can't look intoeverything. We can't, yeah, do
everything. We have to make thatjudicious decision of, what
should we do in this moment oftime?
Dave Crenshaw (20:54):
Yeah, I really like that concept there that
you're sharing of ROI, what'sthe return on investment for the
time that I'm spending and in mycase, with pursuing the news
cycle, I started to realize theROI was not there. I was not
getting back nearly as much aswhat I was putting in. So thank
you for sharing that conceptwith us. Can you share with me
(21:15):
the events leading up toreceiving an Emmy? I mean,
that's a pretty amazing award.
How did that all come about.
Jessica Chen (21:21):
I was in Reno for about a year, and then after
that, I moved to a differenttelevision station where I moved
to the New York City area. Iworked there for about three
years. Loved it, but then afterthat, I actually moved back to
San Diego, and I ended upworking at ABC in San Diego,
California, and I was there forabout two years that year, or in
(21:45):
San Diego in general, they dealwith a lot of wildfires. And I
think California in general,we'd have a lot of that, because
it's just very dry here. And Iremember one day when I was in
working in San Diego, we hadthis big wildfire that happened,
and it destroyed a lot of homes,misplaced a lot of families, and
it was terrible. It was like,yeah, so I was immediately at
(22:06):
the scene of the fire trying tointerview people, first
responders, you know, because atthe end of the day, your job in
news is to make sure you'rebroadcasting and sharing
information so people have theinformation to either leave
their home or they know where togo, right? It's to alert people
of what's going on. So it's sucha chaotic scene, as you can
imagine, people are trying toget away from the fire, and
(22:28):
we're going towards the fire. Sowe were there. I was there on
the scene with my photographer,my producers were back in the
newsroom, putting the whole showtogether. It was like, as you
would see, like breaking news.
Everything's like red on thetelevision. So in the TV world,
you can submit certain segmentsfor award consideration. So
months after this story and thisthing happened, my producer
(22:50):
submitted this entire newscastwhere we were all in it, and I
think because of the quality ofour coverage, the seamlessness
of like how it was done, we wonan Emmy Award for it. So it's
something I'm super proud of.
Dave Crenshaw (23:06):
That's amazing.
It brings up a question, whichis, talk to me a little bit
about the value of teamwork,especially in an environment
like that, because that awarddoesn't just come solely because
of your reporting. It's a partof the camera work, the
production, the writing, thetransportation, all of that. Can
(23:26):
you just kind of give us aninsight of how that all comes
together?
Jessica Chen (23:33):
I really feel like working in News gives you such a
masterclass in communications,in many ways, because you cannot
leave people hanging, not onlyfor like, just information, but
even for safety, for example,right? And so in a situation
like that, for example, wherewe're covering the fire, where
(23:53):
things are constantly changing,right? It's like a, we call it
like, it's a fluid situation,and that's what I mean. It's
like, you know, when I wastalking about a newsroom
environment where people areconstantly on the phone, the
police and fire scanners aregoing off. You're constantly in
communications, and you're onthe phone, you're texting,
you're letting people knowwhat's going on. And not only
(24:14):
that, like, for example, in alive broadcast where the
reporters and the anchors,they're the ones on TV. Right at
the end of the day, you arerelying on the producer to talk
to you, to let you know, okay,you're going to be on, like, at
this time, and you got to be on,or you're not going to be on
because of whatever, right? Soit's a lot of proactive
(24:34):
communications, not reactivecommunications. It's like, I
want to let you know this aheadof time, or I want to give you a
heads up, and I found peopleprefer the proactive
communications over the reactivecommunications, because the
worst thing you can do, reallyin a professional world, is
catch people off guard. And sothat's what I learned in news,
(24:56):
and that's what I tell people tothis day, right? This is the
importance of. Proactivecommunications and and then that
can, of course, form theimpression people have of you,
how capable they see you. Soit's not just doing the work,
it's being able to communicateit in
Dave Crenshaw (25:10):
a day to day setting for a workplace. What
does proactive communicationmean? Let's say I'm a middle
manager in a fortune 500company. What should I do to
have more proactivecommunication? It's
Jessica Chen (25:24):
many things. So for example, looping people into
the process as you're doing it.
And this is personal to me,because I remember early on,
like, when I was a very youngjournalist, and I was still
learning things, makingmistakes, right? I was always of
the mentality of like, well, letme just do the work first, and
then I'll tell people like onceit's done, because I don't want
to bother them, or maybe theydon't care right now, maybe they
(25:46):
just want to see the finalthing. But I have found that
people actually want to knowwhat's going on, but not in this
long winded sort of way, becausefolks are busy. They're not
trying to sit down for a 20minute conversation with you,
but just a quick FYI, or, Hey,just want to give you a quick
update, or even just a simpleemail, right? I think that
(26:08):
proactiveness truly makes a hugedifference, because a lot of
times we can get so consumed indoing the work, right, that we
forget, like, Oh, let me justlike, give them a quick update.
So I think it's like approachingit like that. Again, it can
really, you know, form theimpression people have of you.
This
Dave Crenshaw (26:28):
brings up a thought, and I'd love to get
your take on this. Jessica, youmentioned that people are busy,
and I think a part of effectivecommunication now more than
ever, is communicating in aconcise, effective way, and I've
learned the value of editing, ofcutting things down, of removing
(26:49):
words. And you know, especiallyin a news cycle and journalism
economy of words is so critical.
I think it's just as critical aswhen you're sending an email or
you're making a presentation. Idon't know, what are your
thoughts about that in acorporate environment,
Jessica Chen (27:03):
absolutely less is more. And if we're talking about
presentations, specifically, youknow, you know your stuff. When
you don't need a lot of stuff onyour presentation, people
typically put a lot of stuff intheir presentation because it's
a crutch in some ways, becausethey're like, oh, so I don't
forget to say that, right?
Because one of the worst thingsyou can do, and I call it brain
dumping, is brain dumpingeverything all at once, because
(27:26):
you're going to lose youraudience. You're going to lose
your listeners, whoever right?
So I would say, yes, concise isnumber one. But I would say just
as equally as important is, doyou know who your audience is,
too, right? You know how youtailor your message to one
group. Now you're speaking toanother group, same topic, but
(27:50):
it should be tailored a littledifferent. So I think a great
communicator, and this is acrossall industries, all departments,
all levels, always thinkingabout your audience.
Dave Crenshaw (28:00):
Yeah, that's a fantastic principle. You need to
be adaptable. That's a themethat's come up in several of our
interviews. So yeah, I want tohighlight that. Okay, so you
mentioned you're not ajournalist anymore. So when did
that transition take place? Whendid you start moving away from
journalism?
Jessica Chen (28:20):
So I mentioned that I won that Emmy Award in
San Diego, California, and thatis the, you know, most
prestigious award, and itessentially can open up many
more doors for you. So thatinitial Dream of me being that
international correspondent thatI mentioned, I was like, Oh,
this actually could be the timeI can actually now really, this
could really propel me to thenext level. And I don't know
(28:41):
about you, Dave, but you know,I, when I, after I won that
award, I kind of went throughthis, like, career introspection
of like, wait a second, is thisactually what I want to do for
the next 2030, years of my life?
And for some people, itabsolutely is. Now. I come from
a family of entrepreneurs. Myfather, he's in the
semiconductor industry. Do notask me what that even means. I
(29:04):
mean, I kind of know what theydo, but it's like very
different. So he he has hisbusiness in Asia. My brother, he
actually started his own cardgame. So he's in the game
industry. His game is calledsabotage, the boba card game.
And basically, I guess what I'msaying is my father seeded the
idea because he's anentrepreneur, that we can all go
(29:26):
out and carve our own path,which I really appreciated. So
when I was in news and I waskind of going through this like
career moment, of like, is thiswhat I want? I was like, You
know what this actually could bethe opportunity for me to
actually try to do something onmy own. And so for me, it
actually always came back downto the one word communications,
(29:50):
and this is actually why we'retalking here today. I truly felt
so passionate about helping.
Others become bettercommunicators. And I want to
share a story, because this isthe struggle that I faced as a
journalist, which I'll share thestruggle, yeah, please do. And
it kind of propelled me to startmy own company. So when I first
(30:13):
started out, and this is at thatNBC station in Reno, Nevada, I
will tell you I was a terriblecommunicator. I could not
communicate my ideas. I couldnot pitch my ideas, and I
certainly could not advocate formyself in the workplace, I was
actually known as that quietgirl in the office, and I think
(30:36):
one of the biggest reasons why Istruggled with communicating
was, Well, number one, I wasn'treally taught how to
communicate. Well, like growingup in a very conservative Asian
home with very strict Asianparents, it was more just about
doing the work. It was more justabout working hard. It was more
just about studying. And when Istarted working in a loud
(30:59):
newsroom environment, I lookedaround and I saw all my
colleagues so charismatic, soconfident, so well spoken, and I
saw that they would even debateand challenge, for example, my
manager being like, No, I don'twant to do that story. I think
this story is better, and theywould like make a strong case
about it. For me, I was alwayslike, Oh, don't I just have to
(31:22):
say yes. Like, don't I just haveto, like, acquiesce, don't I
just have to agree. Like, Ithought it was like being a good
worker, right? So basically,what ended up happening was I
realized that my communicationstyle had to expand. I had to
take, like, all the things thatI learned, which is, of course,
you got to work hard. You got tolike, you know, be humble,
(31:43):
modest, but not just that. It'slike, you got to learn how to
talk. You got to learn how topresent, put yourself out there.
So when I was thinking aboutwhat I wanted to do after being
a journalist, it was this, Iwanted to help folks who
struggled with communicating inthe workplace, you know, feeling
that friction in the workplacewhere you're like, I want to
(32:06):
pitch that idea. I want toadvocate for myself, but I don't
know how I want to teach peoplethat. So that's how I started
the company, and it's beenabout, you know, almost six,
seven years now, and
Dave Crenshaw (32:17):
who was your first client for that part of
your business and life. I askthat because that's the biggest
challenge for someone whobecomes an entrepreneur of any
kind, it's the first sale. So Ialways like to emphasize the
first sale, because that helpspeople who might think of doing
the same thing understand how toget their first customer. One
Jessica Chen (32:41):
of the biggest differentiators that I think
really made a difference in mybusiness was deciding on which
social media platform to use.
Because to me, social media islike, it's another broadcast
channel. It's just like, how youcan reach more people. And for
me, I decided LinkedIn was goingto be the platform. And so I
know for sure that's actuallywhere I got my clients. That's
(33:03):
where I get 99% of my clients.
But I'm like, trying to figureout who was my first client. I
don't know, but I will say, soonafter leveraging LinkedIn as my
platform, I became a LinkedInlearning instructor. It was
probably only within six monthsof me, like, really starting to
be proactive on LinkedIn. ThatLinkedIn learning was like, Hey,
(33:23):
you have a media background, youtalk about communications like
you can do like video stuff,like, can you come and teach a
course? So and then from there,it just kind of grew and grew
and grew. And then again, aslong as you're proactive and
consistent, that's like, whereit all happens. I
Dave Crenshaw (33:37):
see that your posts on LinkedIn are quite
successful, you get a lot ofengagement. What have you
learned is the secret tocreating LinkedIn posts that
people will engage with andshare and comment on?
Jessica Chen (33:52):
I think what I've learned is you can't have too
much of the same thing. It can'talways be pictures. It can't
always just be text. It can'talways just be video. I've
noticed people like variety, butI also think what is very
important is whatever you write,it has to always link back to
(34:15):
what you want to be known for.
So whatever picture, video,newsletter, or anything that I
wrote, it always linked back tocommunication, or the story
always had a communicationselement. But of course, that's
unique to me. So I think, like,for anybody who's wanting to
build that presence on LinkedIn,it's, yes, that variety, but
whatever your post is, makingsure it's always linking back to
what you want to be known for.
(34:36):
So for example, I would say,like, if I'm known for
communications, and suddenly Ikind of sometimes talk about my
love for spinning, for example,and I'm like talking about
spinning and that's all I talkabout. That's kind of strange.
It's not really what they expectme to talk about. But if I talk
about spinning and I link it tocommunications in some way, then
(34:58):
it's like, Oh, okay. You know, Ican kind of see like, what the
connection is. I don't know whatthe connection is right now, but
that's how I would approach it.
I want
Dave Crenshaw (35:06):
to talk to you about that because one of the
things I've noticed with yourLinkedIn posts is that you
mention your Asian heritage andhow important that is to you.
What is something that you wouldwant to communicate to those who
aren't Asian and what you wantthem to understand about your
experience?
Jessica Chen (35:23):
I love this question, and thank you for
asking that. So I mentioned, youknow, that that struggle that I
faced when I started working ina professional world. So yes, I
am Asian, but you know, I bornand raised in America, consider
myself very much American,right? And so when I first
started working, I was like verymuch, embodying all the
(35:45):
principles and things that, likemy parents taught me, my Asian
culture taught me, which, forexample, are things like, Don't
rock the boat, just put yourhead down and work hard. Be
humble, don't seek thespotlight, don't cause conflict.
And you start working, and thenyou realize that, you know,
sometimes there's, like, adifferent set of like, rules in
(36:06):
the workplace, and some of themare spoken, some of them are
unspoken. And what I would wantpeople to understand is, even
though someone is quiet, right,in that regards, it doesn't mean
they're not engaged. It doesn'tmean they don't care. It doesn't
mean that they don't have theirown opinions or aspirations. It
may be just because of the waythey were raised to behave. And
(36:31):
that's why, in the book that Ihave, coming out smart not loud,
it's really getting people tosee that, yes, individuals like
for example, people like me, wedo, gotta work on our
communication skills. Like wedo. We can't expect people to
notice us. But at the same time,like for folks who might be on
the more extroverted, loud side,don't see people who are quiet
(36:52):
and assume that, yeah, just givethem that project. They'll do it
right. It's like, no, they haveinterest too. You know,
sometimes you just have to askthem, or create the runway for
them to speak,
Dave Crenshaw (37:04):
and that's a great moment to talk about your
book, smart, not loud. So whenthis podcast, when this episode
comes out, it will be on theshelves and on Amazon. Can you
talk to us a little bit aboutthe process of creating that,
and what you hope people getfrom the book?
Jessica Chen (37:20):
Oh my gosh. This is such a labor of love. And
it's funny because I startedworking, I started working on
this book before I even gotpregnant, and before, and then,
like, you know, before my soncame. And then I say, like, all
those life things happened. Igot pregnant, I have my son, and
you know, now he's like, two anda half years old. And then now
this book is finally done. It'slike so many life things has
(37:42):
happened. So basically, thepoint is, it's been a long work
in progress, but yes, the bookis out in July, and it's called
smart, not loud, how to getnoticed at work for all the
right reasons. And it is writtenfor my folks, who tend to be on
that quieter side. And I'll tellyou, when I first conceptualized
(38:03):
this book, I actuallyspecifically was going to write
it for Asians and AsianAmericans in the workplace. But
after I sold the book to PenguinRandom House, and I'm working
with the amazing team atportfolio, they were like, you
know, a lot of the conceptsyou're talking about in the book
aren't just Asian principles,right? You know, things like
(38:23):
being humble, things like justputting your head down. I think
a lot of people can resonatewith that, even like, for
example, introverts. So I workedwith them over this last year to
basically broaden the theme. AndI loved that. I really loved
that because I wanted to invitemore people to to read the book.
So we worked on this. We changedsome of the terms, so I call it
now quiet culture, loud culture.
And then I talk about, like, howyou would want to approach it,
(38:47):
right? Like, how do you want toactually go into work every day?
What's the mindset that'll helpyou? And then the whole like,
kind of second half of the bookis all communications. Like,
what do you say? How do you sayit? How do you ask for what you
want? How do you put together anamazing elevator pitch, things
like that? Well,
Dave Crenshaw (39:06):
it sounds like that's an excellent resource for
people, especially those whocome from, as you put it, a
quiet culture, which you'reright, that's not unique to any
one group. Many people grow uplike that, or that's just their
natural disposition. So that's agreat resource. So one of the
things that I like to ask peoplewhen I interview them, Jessica,
(39:27):
it's a big thing for me tointerview people who have
achieved balance. So not justcareer success, but personal,
family health success, what'ssomething that you've learned to
help you have more balance andhave multifaceted success in
your life. I
Jessica Chen (39:43):
feel like I that this one word is popping up in
my mind right now, and it's theword of not feeling guilty, not
feeling guilty that sometimesyou gotta close your laptop, you
go downstairs, you play withyour kids, you talk to your.
Your partner, and you don't feelguilty that you're not doing
work right now. And I think, assomebody who is a go getter, a
(40:09):
high achiever, who I love work,I actually love work, and it's
not feeling guilty that I'm notdoing it, but rather, it's
putting that aside and justbeing present. But vice versa,
if I'm doing work, not feelingguilty that I'm not hanging out
with my family too.
Dave Crenshaw (40:26):
Yeah, well, you mentioned your book. You're
taking plays right out of a bookthat I wrote, which is the power
of having fun, and I talk aboutthe permission to play, giving
yourself that permission to doit, and creating the boundary
between work and personal, sothat you enjoy both. So sounds
like we're in agreement on thatpoint. For
Jessica Chen (40:47):
sure. I love that.
Okay,
Dave Crenshaw (40:49):
so Jessica, what I do at the end of every one of
these interviews is I like tosummarize some action steps that
someone can take. I'm a bigbeliever in doing, in taking
action so that I want someonewho's listened to your amazing
story to say, what can I do tomake Jessica's success story a
part of my success story? Sowhat I'm going to do is I'm
(41:11):
going to suggest three actionsthat stood out to me in this
interview, of something someonecan do this week, not a year
from now, but right now and thenI'd like you to chime in at the
end and give one potentialaction that you think someone
could take. Does that soundgood? Sounds great. Okay, so the
first one, and I think this isprobably the most obvious one
(41:32):
with your story, but it's stillincredibly valuable, is develop
the skill of communication. Getcurious about it, get interested
in it. Learn how to presentbetter. Learn how to write
better. These are essentialsuccess skills in our day. So
you can certainly take Jessica'scourses on LinkedIn learning and
(41:55):
of course, check out her booksmart not loud. These are
helpful resources to developthis essential skill of
communication. The second onestood out to me was going back
to that phrase, when we weretalking about spending your time
on different things, like withnews and that sort of stuff you
mentioned, considering the ROIof how you're spending your time
(42:17):
as a time management guy that'sspeaking my language, I like the
idea of considering, maybe evenmeasuring. How are things paying
off when I invest my time inthis? Am I getting a good return
on investment for it? And ifyou're not, it's okay to say,
You know what, I'm going to trysomething else now. But always
consider, am I getting a goodROI on that? And it's funny,
(42:39):
because that kind of leads intomy third principle here, this
third action, which is toparticipate in social media
where your customers are. So inJessica's case, and I would say
in my case, LinkedIn is thegreat place to go for that,
maybe for your customers, or ifyou're in a career, maybe where
(43:00):
your industry is is different.
Maybe for you it's, I don'tknow, Instagram or something
like that, but go where they areand then consistently post about
a consistent message. In fact, Iwrote down this phrase that sort
of summarized what you wereteaching. Jessica, consistency
of message, but variety ofmethod. So you're sharing about
(43:21):
finance, if that's your area ofexpertise, or productivity, if
that's my area of expertise, butmaybe we show a picture one time
and then we show a video anothertime. So just participate. I
can't believe when I do helppeople with their career. How
many times people aren'tparticipating on social media,
(43:44):
and it's a missed opportunity,not just to reach out to people,
but also to develop your ownexpertise and knowledge about a
subject? Jessica, what's anaction item you would suggest?
The
Jessica Chen (43:56):
one that I was thinking of is I would encourage
and challenge folks to do onething this week that will
celebrate their wins. And that'swhat I mean, celebrate something
that you did great this week.
And I mean this in the sense of,it doesn't have to be in this
loud, showy way, but if you hada great week, or even last week
(44:18):
was a great week, or you gotthis great email from somebody,
or you were really happy thatyou finished this one project.
Who is this one person you canshare that win with verbally or
through a forward of an email?
Because I feel like this is likethe anchor of what I always talk
(44:39):
about. Working hard isimportant. Working hard is
expected in any job, but I thinkwe have to get good at being
able to advocate for ourselves,because that is how we can get
noticed at work for all thoseright reasons that we're talking
about. Fantastic.
Dave Crenshaw (44:54):
I love that suggestion. Jessica, thank you
so much for sharing your wisdomwith us and. Being here. If
someone wants to continue tofollow you and stay up to date
with what you're sharing withthe world, what's the best place
for them to go do that?
Jessica Chen (45:08):
Well, certainly LinkedIn. That is where I am all
the time. That's where I'mconsistently posting all the
communications content we talkedabout. So you can add me Jessica
Chen, or I think the handle isJessica Chen page. Otherwise,
check out that book, smart, notloud, how to get noticed at work
for all the right reasons. It'svery much a communications book,
and it can help anyone, whetheryou grew up in that quiet
(45:30):
culture or loud culture. Thank
Dave Crenshaw (45:32):
you so much, Jessica for being here and
sharing this with us. I reallyappreciate it. Thanks so much,
Dave, and thank you everyone forlistening. Remember, it's not
just about the knowledge thatyou gained or how inspired you
were by Jessica. It's about theaction that you take. So do
something today, do somethingthis week, and you'll make
(45:53):
Jessica's success story a partof your success story. Thanks
for listening.
Darci Crenshaw (46:01):
You've been listening to the Dave Crenshaw
Success Show, hosted by my dad,Dave Crenshaw, and produced by
invaluable incorporated researchand assistant production by
Victoria bidez, Sound Editing byNick Wright, voiceover by me
Darci Crenshaw, and the music isby Ryan Brady via Pon five
(46:21):
licensing, please subscribe tothe Dave Crenshaw success show
on Apple podcasts Spotify,wherever you like to get your
podcast. If you have asuggestion for someone my dad
might like to interview, pleasesend it to guests at Dave
crenshaw.com and please don'tforget to leave us a five serve
you see you next time you.
Wherever you get your first job in news, you want
it to be in a small city,because if you make a mistake,
no one's watching.
Dave Crenshaw (00:10):
That's a good point.
Unknown (00:10):
It's true.
Dave Crenshaw (00:11):
In this episode, you'll get to know Jessica Chen,
the Emmy winning communicator,and you'll hear the story of how
she climbed the ranks ofjournalism from intern to award
winning reporter to author andLinkedIn learning instructor.
I'm Dave Crenshaw, and this ismy success Show. Welcome back
(00:34):
friends to the Dave CrenshawSuccess Show. This is where I
interview some of the mostsuccessful people I've met in my
life's journey, and I'm on amission to find universal
principles of success. Iinitially started this show to
help my children succeed, and Ithought, well, you'd like to
enjoy learning along with them.
So now I'm sharing it with you.
(00:55):
If it's your first time here,you're not familiar with me. I'm
a best selling author. I speakaround the world of fortune, 500
companies, and I've taughtmillions of people how to be
successful through my onlinecourses, particularly my courses
on LinkedIn. Learning this showis about creating something
lasting, creating a legacy tohelp my family. But I thought
you'd enjoy it too. And I'mlooking for people who have
(01:18):
multifaceted success in manyareas of their lives, not just
career or financial success, andmy guest today fits that
criteria. Before we dive intothe interview, I always like to
ask, if you know of someone whomight make a great guest who has
that multifaceted success, youcan email your suggestion to
(01:38):
guest at Dave crenshaw.com andalso, as you listen to today's
episode, listen for somethingyou can do. Don't just be
inspired, don't just gainknowledge. Those are great
things. But look for an actionyou can take this week to make
my guest success story a part ofyour success story. And my guest
today is certainly interesting.
Jessica Chen is the CEO ofsoulcast media, where she offers
(02:02):
training in cross culturalcommunications and workplace
confidence. Her clients includeGoogle, LinkedIn, Mattel Harvard
Business School, DraftKings andthe CDC, an Emmy Award receiving
journalist. Her work has beenfeatured in Forbes, Fortune
entrepreneur and Market WatchJessica's communication courses
(02:24):
on LinkedIn. Learning have over2 million learners. Her book
smart, not loud. How to getnoticed at work for all the
right reasons. Is a guide on howto authentically show up, speak
up and truly feel seen at work.
Jessica lives in Orange County,California with her husband and
(02:46):
her son. Jessica, thank you somuch for being on the show
today.
Jessica Chen (02:50):
Well, thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled
to be here. Yeah, and
Dave Crenshaw (02:54):
I've really enjoyed looking at your courses
on LinkedIn learning and Wow,your posts on LinkedIn are so
popular, people love what you'resharing with them, so you're a
great example of communicationas well as being an expert in
it.
Jessica Chen (03:07):
Yeah, LinkedIn has been great, and I'm I mean,
that's how we connected, right?
So the power of LinkedIn, well,
Dave Crenshaw (03:13):
and especially the family of instructors on
LinkedIn learning I've reallyenjoyed the connections that
I've made with other LinkedInlearning instructors. So I'm
thrilled to have you here. Whereare we reaching you today?
Jessica Chen (03:25):
I'm dialing in form from California,
specifically Orange County.
California. It's where my familyand I are, and we've been here
for about a few years now.
Dave Crenshaw (03:34):
That's a wonderful area, as we mentioned
before. I was born in OrangeCounty. I love that area. So
let's dive into your story.
Jessica and I always like to askmy guests the same question,
which is a question that we allkind of get asked as we're
growing up. But as I'm askingthis, I'm thinking in terms of,
like, your high school years,what did you want to be when you
grew up?
Jessica Chen (03:56):
It's the question that I always think about. It
induces so much stress andanxiety for a lot of young
students, because it's aquestion that parents ask them
all the time, what do you wantto be when you grow up? Well,
ironically, even in high school,I was actually pretty clear in
terms of what I wanted to be. Inthat sense, I've always wanted
(04:19):
to be a journalist. I've alwayswanted to be specifically a
television journalist. So evenin high school, we didn't have,
of course, like a studentbroadcasting program back then,
but we did have a newspaper andwe had yearbook, right? So for
me, I signed up to be a part ofthose programs, and that really
kind of got my journalism juicesflowing. And that's when I
(04:41):
decided, really, then and there,that this was a quote, unquote
industry I wanted to pursue.
Which
Dave Crenshaw (04:46):
came first? Was it the classes, or was it
someone that you saw orsomething you read about
journalism or learned about itthat made you excited about it?
Well,
Jessica Chen (04:56):
here's a funny story. So we're gonna go way
back to when I was. About fiveor six years old. So one of the
funny family traditions that wehad growing up, and I don't know
if family, I mean, I'm gonnaassume maybe families don't do
this so much anymore, but about,you know, 25 some years ago, you
know, families would gathertogether and watch the news like
(05:16):
this was before the iPads theiPhones, right? And I remember
distinctly this was my family'stradition. We would all sit
around and watch The 10 O'ClockNews together, and this was when
we were in the Bay Area, that'swhere I grew up. And I remember
my parents would always jokinglysay, oh, Jessica, when you
become an adult, you should workon the news like them, so we can
(05:40):
see you every day and know thatyou're safe. Obviously, to a
five and six year old at thetime, it didn't mean much then,
but I will say it's little seedsof ideas like that that just get
kind of like implanted in yourhead. And by no means was that
why I went into journalism, butit certainly got me curious. And
then, of course, you're watchingthem, and then you're like, Wow.
(06:02):
You know, those folks are sowell spoken, so well put
together, like they'redelivering the news. And I
started getting curious. Yeah,
Dave Crenshaw (06:11):
it at least opened up that idea of you
thinking, Wait, what is this?
Should I do this? That is aninteresting thing to say to a
five or six year old, thoughmaybe you already showed some
ability to speak confidently infront of them, perhaps.
Jessica Chen (06:25):
Well, here's another funny thing. So back
then, all of us had, like, thehome phones, where we had the
voice answering machine, right?
It's not like on our phones. AndI remember my parents actually
had me record our family's likevoicemail. So it was like, you
know, thank you for calling theChen residents, right? And then
I was, I was the one announcingit, and I remember my parents
(06:46):
saying that a lot of theirfriends who would call our house
would say, Oh, is that yourdaughter? Her voice is very
clear. And again, a smallcompliment. But, you know, to a
young child, you're like, Oh, Idid something good.
Dave Crenshaw (06:59):
Yeah. The funny thing about this is, at the end
of every episode, Jessica, mydaughter Darcy, does the the
credits for it, and she's alsovery confident, very well spoken
and expresses really well. Sowho knows, maybe we've started
her on a path of being ajournalist like you. So where
(07:21):
did it go from high school,you're doing that and you're
enjoying being in that class. Sois that something that you
pursued in college? Was that thedegree that you went after?
Jessica Chen (07:30):
So I ended up going to school at UC San Diego,
and ironically, UC San Diegodoes not have a journalism
program, and that was sort ofdisappointing, because I was
interested in it. But I willsay, the four years I was there,
it was an opportunity for me tostart to explore like, is this
(07:52):
actually an industry that I wantto do there? I mean, there
certainly is no program. Sobecause there was no journalism
major, what I ended up majoringin was actually International
Studies. And I actually thoughtthat that was a good option.
Because if I wanted to be a realjournalist one day, I wanted to
be an internationalcorrespondent. I wanted to work
(08:14):
for big networks overseas, inAsia, Europe, wherever, right?
So I was like, Okay, well,majoring international studies
would be great, but because UCSan Diego did not have a
journalism program, and I waslike, You know what? Let me just
see what this is about. So I gotan internship at the fox five
station in San Diego,California, and that was for the
(08:38):
very first time where I said,this is what I want to do. I'm
suddenly surrounded byjournalists, producers, and they
are doing work that constantlyimpressed me. And it wasn't just
like the work of like puttingnews together and how they
gathered it. It was them beingable to go out and be a part of
the story, tell the stories, andabove all, make a difference. So
(09:02):
once I graduated, that's when Iwas like, I want to be a
journalist. So not an internanymore. I want to I want a job
as a journalist at a newsstation.
Dave Crenshaw (09:12):
So typically, they don't let an intern just
jump right out in the field. Sowhat sort of tasks were they
having you do, and what sort ofthings were you learning as an
intern that was sort ofpreparing you for that
opportunity?
Jessica Chen (09:26):
Yes, you're right.
Certainly they're not putting anintern on live television. So as
an intern, what you're reallydoing is you're behind the
scenes, and you are, let's sayyou're doing some research. So
like, in addition to thereporters covering their own
individual stories. Youtypically see the anchors on TV,
and they're reading stories, andthey're going story by story by
story. I mean, we all know it,we all see it, but somebody has
(09:48):
to write that. Typically, it's aproducer who writes that. But as
an intern, you know, they,they'll have us interns kind of
practice writing the script, andthen they'll. Revise it, but it
gives us a good idea of how towrite in the broadcast style,
which was something I learnedbecause writing an email in that
style, or writing an essay or along form newsletter is
(10:12):
completely different from howyou write a broadcast news show.
You have to write it in the wayyou're basically talking. And
that was a training that Icouldn't get in school because
we didn't have a journalismprogram. But I certainly was
surrounded by some amazing,generous reporters and anchors
who were saying, Oh, you want totry to use these kinds of words
(10:33):
instead of this kind of word,like, you want to write it in
like this way. So that's kind ofwhere I started the learning and
then one of the coolest partswas you get to go out onto the
field and shadow them as they'rein the news van, and you're
riding with them in the newsvan, kind of going from place to
place. And I loved that. Ithought that was so exciting.
Dave Crenshaw (10:55):
Was there someone who was a mentor to you during
this time, or someone that youreally wanted to follow their
example, is there a story thatstands out in your mind, that
illustrates that there were so
Jessica Chen (11:07):
many in and I feel very fortunate, because I
wouldn't say there was like amentor who Shepherd me along the
way, I think, and maybe it's thecredit to that particular news
station. I just felt likeeverybody there was a lot of the
reporters at the time were quiteyoung, like they were like, in
their like, mid to late 20s,early 30s. So everybody had this
(11:27):
like, fun young vibe. And thenyou have like, a 19 year old,
you know, who was wanting tolearn. Because these folks are
still pretty fresh in theindustry, too. But you know, I
felt like everybody there was sosupportive, and any questions
that I had, they certainlyhelped with. I mean, I do
remember that I had this onementor who did teach me the
(11:48):
power of using your voice, notin the sense of like, Oh,
speaking up, but just like thesound of your voice and how you
can utilize it. And it's notjust like what you sound like,
but it's like tone of voice,right, and how you can modulate
it, and even things like bodylanguage, right? Like, I grew up
in a pretty conservative Asianhome, and we certainly were not
(12:10):
taught things like tone of voiceand body language. And so
learning that it was there waslike an art to it was, was quite
fascinating, and it really gotme learning about communications
in that way. It's like, how canyou speak so people listen,
because it's not just about thewords, really. It's like, how
you deliver it.
Dave Crenshaw (12:29):
One thing we kind of share in common, Jessica is I
have a little bit of backgroundin similar area. My father was a
radio talk show host, which isvery much news driven, right?
And it's a production area, andmy dad would talk to me about,
for example, the importance ofsmiling while you're talking,
even if it's on radio, becausepeople can hear that, even
(12:51):
though they can't see it. So Icompletely agree with you, and I
think that's something that evenmore now, is so important,
because everybody's on videonow, right? Everybody's
broadcasting in some way. Whatare some skills that you think
would help people with thatmore?
Jessica Chen (13:10):
Well, it's funny that you mentioned that, because
when you and I were talkingabout LinkedIn learning, the
first course I had ever createdwith LinkedIn learning was
developing executive presence onvideo calls. And this came out
about three months before thepandemic, and once the pandemic
hit, everybody was locked downand doing video calls. And
you're right, Dave, in manyways, we are broadcasting
(13:32):
because we're speaking on video.
Typically people don't think ofit that way, but you're talking
to a camera, even though theremight be like, two, 310, people
in that, in that Zoom, or teamsmeeting, in many ways it is, you
know. So, I mean, I would justsay, if you're asking, like,
what's one quick tip? I mean, Iwill say, of course, a good
microphone really does make adifference, because it's audio
as well. But just thinking aboutyour background, right? Like,
(13:54):
what are you showing? What areyou not showing? And I think
being intentional about it canactually be strategic, because,
trust me, if your camera's on,people are looking. People are
wondering, what is that pile oflaundry behind you or or what's
that award that you have on youron your shelf? You know, people
are curious. So I would saythat's just like one quick tip.
(14:15):
I always like to remind people,if you're still on video calls
at work. Think about a yes, amicrophone, but two, what is
your background showing?
Dave Crenshaw (14:25):
Yeah, exactly. So when was your first break? When
did you transition from being anintern to being an actual
reporter, journalist?
Jessica Chen (14:35):
So I graduated UC San Diego in 2010 and then a few
months later, I got my first jobat the NBC station in Reno
Nevada. And people were like,Reno Nevada, like, That's so
random, but this is the internalkind of like joke in the
industry. It's wherever you getyour first job in news, you want
(14:59):
it to be in a. Small city,because if you make a mistake,
no one's watching.
Dave Crenshaw (15:05):
Oh, that's a good point. It's
Jessica Chen (15:06):
true. I mean, not that no one's watching the news
in Reno, but it's a small citylike, versus, if you make a
mistake in the market, in LosAngeles, where there's millions
of people, or San Francisco orNew York City, you you make one
like, huge mistake, then oh mygosh, everyone see. So for me,
that's where I started out. AndI was, I felt so happy, because
my hope was, I didn't want to govery far, because coming from
(15:28):
California, I really wanted tostay on the west coast. So
getting that job in Nevada, Iwas like, This is what like a
four hour drive from the BayArea and and it was great. I
learned a lot there.
Dave Crenshaw (15:40):
You paint a picture for those who are not
familiar of what is happeningbehind the scenes in a news
station. What is that like?
Jessica Chen (15:49):
It's total chaos.
No, yes, but a newsroom is kindof like how you would imagine
it. I mean, there's your typicaltables and chairs where the
reporters and producers aresitting, but typically in a
traditional newsroom, you havekind of, like, what we call the
command center, and it's whereyou have all your fire police,
like all those like radios thatsomebody is listening in the
(16:13):
command center. Becausetypically those who are sitting
in the command center, they'rewatching and listening like,
what are first respondersresponding to? So if it's like a
fire that broke out that's huge,or like a huge shooting, for
example, like they need to beknowing, like what's going on in
real time, so they're constantlylistening to that. So if you can
(16:34):
imagine a newsroom has a lot ofthat radio broadcast of like
first responders and that kindof communication. But not only
that, everybody is always on thephone. As a reporter, you're on
the phone because you're tryingto call people to do interviews
with them, to kind of sourceinformation, to gather
information, and then,similarly, producers are also on
(16:55):
the phone talking to thereporters who are now out on the
field, because you need thisconstant communications, a lot
of clicking of the keyboards, soit's just a very fast paced
environment, and you got peoplerunning around, the
photographers, and it's veryexciting, if you like that fast
paced environment.
Dave Crenshaw (17:15):
It brings me to a question for you personally,
which is, in an environment likethat. How do you manage your own
stress? And I'm not just askingthis from a mental well being,
I'm asking it from a timemanagement standpoint. That's
what my courses are about onLinkedIn, learning most of them,
and I understand from my workthat switching attention from
(17:39):
one thing to something else isincredibly stressful, and that's
a career, an environment that'sdriven by attention switches. So
personally, how did you managethat? Or was it a problem for
you? Or did you feel completelycomfortable in that kind of
hectic environment?
Jessica Chen (17:57):
I think at the end of the day, you have like,
something you got to accomplishat the end of the day, and in
the newsroom, probably similarto radio, you're driven by
deadlines, and the deadlines areoften by certain hours, by the
five o'clock, six o'clocknewscast. So in some sense, you
can't be distracted by all thatloud, chaotic noise around you,
(18:17):
because at the end of the dayyou got to deliver something. So
if you are constantly just kindof like not being able to manage
your time well, or or gettingdistracted at the end of the
day, it's going to affect you,and you're not going to make
that time slot. That's what wecall it. You're not going to
make your time slot. And that'slike the worst thing that can
happen in television. So, yeah,I don't know, you know, I think
(18:40):
for I think back to when I wassitting in those newsrooms and
when others are sitting in thenewsroom. Yeah, I think people
are just focused. I'm
Dave Crenshaw (18:47):
also referring to the relentless nature of the
news cycle, and I've dealt withthis recently as someone who
tries to be active on socialmedia. And there was a time
where I was trying to respond tocurrent events, and when
something would happen in thenews, I would try to comment on
it, and it just became thistreadmill that never ended, and
(19:10):
you don't spend as much time onthat. Now, do you feel relief
that you're not spending that ordo you still crave the
relentless nature of newsstories. The
Jessica Chen (19:22):
way I see it is, yeah, it's this constant
treadmill where it never ends,like news, for example, is 24/7
and in some ways, maybe work forsome of us can feel 24/7 right?
And I think if that is thesituation we're in, like it's
really two things. It's like yougotta protect your time in terms
(19:42):
of knowing what is mostimportant to you. And I think
it's a very personal question,but it's like understanding,
like, okay, if I'm gonna look atthis or invest my time in
working on this, writing this,researching that, right? Like,
what's the ROI here? And ROIdoesn't have to be necessarily.
Necessarily something, you know,quantitative it can be like,
(20:02):
because I'm just trulyinterested in it, and it excites
me, right? But if it's somethingthat it's like, not that
important, or high on thepriority list, or the, you know,
the return on investment is notthere, then maybe now is not the
time to do it, right? And Ialways say, like, if it's
something that you're reallyinterested in or you really want
to do, you'll find a way to getback at it, like I really do.
(20:23):
And sometimes that's the beautyof giving yourself time. It's
like, there's many distractionsout there, many things that are
like, you know, trying to grabour attention. And I feel like,
if you let something go, letthat idea go, or let that
curiosity go, and it comes backto you, then maybe that's
something that I like. You knowwhat that is? Something I do
want to look into, because atthe end of the day, we can't do
(20:44):
everything. We can't look intoeverything. We can't, yeah, do
everything. We have to make thatjudicious decision of, what
should we do in this moment oftime?
Dave Crenshaw (20:54):
Yeah, I really like that concept there that
you're sharing of ROI, what'sthe return on investment for the
time that I'm spending and in mycase, with pursuing the news
cycle, I started to realize theROI was not there. I was not
getting back nearly as much aswhat I was putting in. So thank
you for sharing that conceptwith us. Can you share with me
(21:15):
the events leading up toreceiving an Emmy? I mean,
that's a pretty amazing award.
How did that all come about.
Jessica Chen (21:21):
I was in Reno for about a year, and then after
that, I moved to a differenttelevision station where I moved
to the New York City area. Iworked there for about three
years. Loved it, but then afterthat, I actually moved back to
San Diego, and I ended upworking at ABC in San Diego,
California, and I was there forabout two years that year, or in
(21:45):
San Diego in general, they dealwith a lot of wildfires. And I
think California in general,we'd have a lot of that, because
it's just very dry here. And Iremember one day when I was in
working in San Diego, we hadthis big wildfire that happened,
and it destroyed a lot of homes,misplaced a lot of families, and
it was terrible. It was like,yeah, so I was immediately at
(22:06):
the scene of the fire trying tointerview people, first
responders, you know, because atthe end of the day, your job in
news is to make sure you'rebroadcasting and sharing
information so people have theinformation to either leave
their home or they know where togo, right? It's to alert people
of what's going on. So it's sucha chaotic scene, as you can
imagine, people are trying toget away from the fire, and
(22:28):
we're going towards the fire. Sowe were there. I was there on
the scene with my photographer,my producers were back in the
newsroom, putting the whole showtogether. It was like, as you
would see, like breaking news.
Everything's like red on thetelevision. So in the TV world,
you can submit certain segmentsfor award consideration. So
months after this story and thisthing happened, my producer
(22:50):
submitted this entire newscastwhere we were all in it, and I
think because of the quality ofour coverage, the seamlessness
of like how it was done, we wonan Emmy Award for it. So it's
something I'm super proud of.
Dave Crenshaw (23:06):
That's amazing.
It brings up a question, whichis, talk to me a little bit
about the value of teamwork,especially in an environment
like that, because that awarddoesn't just come solely because
of your reporting. It's a partof the camera work, the
production, the writing, thetransportation, all of that. Can
(23:26):
you just kind of give us aninsight of how that all comes
together?
Jessica Chen (23:33):
I really feel like working in News gives you such a
masterclass in communications,in many ways, because you cannot
leave people hanging, not onlyfor like, just information, but
even for safety, for example,right? And so in a situation
like that, for example, wherewe're covering the fire, where
(23:53):
things are constantly changing,right? It's like a, we call it
like, it's a fluid situation,and that's what I mean. It's
like, you know, when I wastalking about a newsroom
environment where people areconstantly on the phone, the
police and fire scanners aregoing off. You're constantly in
communications, and you're onthe phone, you're texting,
you're letting people knowwhat's going on. And not only
(24:14):
that, like, for example, in alive broadcast where the
reporters and the anchors,they're the ones on TV. Right at
the end of the day, you arerelying on the producer to talk
to you, to let you know, okay,you're going to be on, like, at
this time, and you got to be on,or you're not going to be on
because of whatever, right? Soit's a lot of proactive
(24:34):
communications, not reactivecommunications. It's like, I
want to let you know this aheadof time, or I want to give you a
heads up, and I found peopleprefer the proactive
communications over the reactivecommunications, because the
worst thing you can do, reallyin a professional world, is
catch people off guard. And sothat's what I learned in news,
(24:56):
and that's what I tell people tothis day, right? This is the
importance of. Proactivecommunications and and then that
can, of course, form theimpression people have of you,
how capable they see you. Soit's not just doing the work,
it's being able to communicateit in
Dave Crenshaw (25:10):
a day to day setting for a workplace. What
does proactive communicationmean? Let's say I'm a middle
manager in a fortune 500company. What should I do to
have more proactivecommunication? It's
Jessica Chen (25:24):
many things. So for example, looping people into
the process as you're doing it.
And this is personal to me,because I remember early on,
like, when I was a very youngjournalist, and I was still
learning things, makingmistakes, right? I was always of
the mentality of like, well, letme just do the work first, and
then I'll tell people like onceit's done, because I don't want
to bother them, or maybe theydon't care right now, maybe they
(25:46):
just want to see the finalthing. But I have found that
people actually want to knowwhat's going on, but not in this
long winded sort of way, becausefolks are busy. They're not
trying to sit down for a 20minute conversation with you,
but just a quick FYI, or, Hey,just want to give you a quick
update, or even just a simpleemail, right? I think that
(26:08):
proactiveness truly makes a hugedifference, because a lot of
times we can get so consumed indoing the work, right, that we
forget, like, Oh, let me justlike, give them a quick update.
So I think it's like approachingit like that. Again, it can
really, you know, form theimpression people have of you.
This
Dave Crenshaw (26:28):
brings up a thought, and I'd love to get
your take on this. Jessica, youmentioned that people are busy,
and I think a part of effectivecommunication now more than
ever, is communicating in aconcise, effective way, and I've
learned the value of editing, ofcutting things down, of removing
(26:49):
words. And you know, especiallyin a news cycle and journalism
economy of words is so critical.
I think it's just as critical aswhen you're sending an email or
you're making a presentation. Idon't know, what are your
thoughts about that in acorporate environment,
Jessica Chen (27:03):
absolutely less is more. And if we're talking about
presentations, specifically, youknow, you know your stuff. When
you don't need a lot of stuff onyour presentation, people
typically put a lot of stuff intheir presentation because it's
a crutch in some ways, becausethey're like, oh, so I don't
forget to say that, right?
Because one of the worst thingsyou can do, and I call it brain
dumping, is brain dumpingeverything all at once, because
(27:26):
you're going to lose youraudience. You're going to lose
your listeners, whoever right?
So I would say, yes, concise isnumber one. But I would say just
as equally as important is, doyou know who your audience is,
too, right? You know how youtailor your message to one
group. Now you're speaking toanother group, same topic, but
(27:50):
it should be tailored a littledifferent. So I think a great
communicator, and this is acrossall industries, all departments,
all levels, always thinkingabout your audience.
Dave Crenshaw (28:00):
Yeah, that's a fantastic principle. You need to
be adaptable. That's a themethat's come up in several of our
interviews. So yeah, I want tohighlight that. Okay, so you
mentioned you're not ajournalist anymore. So when did
that transition take place? Whendid you start moving away from
journalism?
Jessica Chen (28:20):
So I mentioned that I won that Emmy Award in
San Diego, California, and thatis the, you know, most
prestigious award, and itessentially can open up many
more doors for you. So thatinitial Dream of me being that
international correspondent thatI mentioned, I was like, Oh,
this actually could be the timeI can actually now really, this
could really propel me to thenext level. And I don't know
(28:41):
about you, Dave, but you know,I, when I, after I won that
award, I kind of went throughthis, like, career introspection
of like, wait a second, is thisactually what I want to do for
the next 2030, years of my life?
And for some people, itabsolutely is. Now. I come from
a family of entrepreneurs. Myfather, he's in the
semiconductor industry. Do notask me what that even means. I
(29:04):
mean, I kind of know what theydo, but it's like very
different. So he he has hisbusiness in Asia. My brother, he
actually started his own cardgame. So he's in the game
industry. His game is calledsabotage, the boba card game.
And basically, I guess what I'msaying is my father seeded the
idea because he's anentrepreneur, that we can all go
(29:26):
out and carve our own path,which I really appreciated. So
when I was in news and I waskind of going through this like
career moment, of like, is thiswhat I want? I was like, You
know what this actually could bethe opportunity for me to
actually try to do something onmy own. And so for me, it
actually always came back downto the one word communications,
(29:50):
and this is actually why we'retalking here today. I truly felt
so passionate about helping.
Others become bettercommunicators. And I want to
share a story, because this isthe struggle that I faced as a
journalist, which I'll share thestruggle, yeah, please do. And
it kind of propelled me to startmy own company. So when I first
(30:13):
started out, and this is at thatNBC station in Reno, Nevada, I
will tell you I was a terriblecommunicator. I could not
communicate my ideas. I couldnot pitch my ideas, and I
certainly could not advocate formyself in the workplace, I was
actually known as that quietgirl in the office, and I think
(30:36):
one of the biggest reasons why Istruggled with communicating
was, Well, number one, I wasn'treally taught how to
communicate. Well, like growingup in a very conservative Asian
home with very strict Asianparents, it was more just about
doing the work. It was more justabout working hard. It was more
just about studying. And when Istarted working in a loud
(30:59):
newsroom environment, I lookedaround and I saw all my
colleagues so charismatic, soconfident, so well spoken, and I
saw that they would even debateand challenge, for example, my
manager being like, No, I don'twant to do that story. I think
this story is better, and theywould like make a strong case
about it. For me, I was alwayslike, Oh, don't I just have to
(31:22):
say yes. Like, don't I just haveto, like, acquiesce, don't I
just have to agree. Like, Ithought it was like being a good
worker, right? So basically,what ended up happening was I
realized that my communicationstyle had to expand. I had to
take, like, all the things thatI learned, which is, of course,
you got to work hard. You got tolike, you know, be humble,
(31:43):
modest, but not just that. It'slike, you got to learn how to
talk. You got to learn how topresent, put yourself out there.
So when I was thinking aboutwhat I wanted to do after being
a journalist, it was this, Iwanted to help folks who
struggled with communicating inthe workplace, you know, feeling
that friction in the workplacewhere you're like, I want to
(32:06):
pitch that idea. I want toadvocate for myself, but I don't
know how I want to teach peoplethat. So that's how I started
the company, and it's beenabout, you know, almost six,
seven years now, and
Dave Crenshaw (32:17):
who was your first client for that part of
your business and life. I askthat because that's the biggest
challenge for someone whobecomes an entrepreneur of any
kind, it's the first sale. So Ialways like to emphasize the
first sale, because that helpspeople who might think of doing
the same thing understand how toget their first customer. One
Jessica Chen (32:41):
of the biggest differentiators that I think
really made a difference in mybusiness was deciding on which
social media platform to use.
Because to me, social media islike, it's another broadcast
channel. It's just like, how youcan reach more people. And for
me, I decided LinkedIn was goingto be the platform. And so I
know for sure that's actuallywhere I got my clients. That's
(33:03):
where I get 99% of my clients.
But I'm like, trying to figureout who was my first client. I
don't know, but I will say, soonafter leveraging LinkedIn as my
platform, I became a LinkedInlearning instructor. It was
probably only within six monthsof me, like, really starting to
be proactive on LinkedIn. ThatLinkedIn learning was like, Hey,
(33:23):
you have a media background, youtalk about communications like
you can do like video stuff,like, can you come and teach a
course? So and then from there,it just kind of grew and grew
and grew. And then again, aslong as you're proactive and
consistent, that's like, whereit all happens. I
Dave Crenshaw (33:37):
see that your posts on LinkedIn are quite
successful, you get a lot ofengagement. What have you
learned is the secret tocreating LinkedIn posts that
people will engage with andshare and comment on?
Jessica Chen (33:52):
I think what I've learned is you can't have too
much of the same thing. It can'talways be pictures. It can't
always just be text. It can'talways just be video. I've
noticed people like variety, butI also think what is very
important is whatever you write,it has to always link back to
(34:15):
what you want to be known for.
So whatever picture, video,newsletter, or anything that I
wrote, it always linked back tocommunication, or the story
always had a communicationselement. But of course, that's
unique to me. So I think, like,for anybody who's wanting to
build that presence on LinkedIn,it's, yes, that variety, but
whatever your post is, makingsure it's always linking back to
what you want to be known for.
(34:36):
So for example, I would say,like, if I'm known for
communications, and suddenly Ikind of sometimes talk about my
love for spinning, for example,and I'm like talking about
spinning and that's all I talkabout. That's kind of strange.
It's not really what they expectme to talk about. But if I talk
about spinning and I link it tocommunications in some way, then
(34:58):
it's like, Oh, okay. You know, Ican kind of see like, what the
connection is. I don't know whatthe connection is right now, but
that's how I would approach it.
I want
Dave Crenshaw (35:06):
to talk to you about that because one of the
things I've noticed with yourLinkedIn posts is that you
mention your Asian heritage andhow important that is to you.
What is something that you wouldwant to communicate to those who
aren't Asian and what you wantthem to understand about your
experience?
Jessica Chen (35:23):
I love this question, and thank you for
asking that. So I mentioned, youknow, that that struggle that I
faced when I started working ina professional world. So yes, I
am Asian, but you know, I bornand raised in America, consider
myself very much American,right? And so when I first
started working, I was like verymuch, embodying all the
(35:45):
principles and things that, likemy parents taught me, my Asian
culture taught me, which, forexample, are things like, Don't
rock the boat, just put yourhead down and work hard. Be
humble, don't seek thespotlight, don't cause conflict.
And you start working, and thenyou realize that, you know,
sometimes there's, like, adifferent set of like, rules in
(36:06):
the workplace, and some of themare spoken, some of them are
unspoken. And what I would wantpeople to understand is, even
though someone is quiet, right,in that regards, it doesn't mean
they're not engaged. It doesn'tmean they don't care. It doesn't
mean that they don't have theirown opinions or aspirations. It
may be just because of the waythey were raised to behave. And
(36:31):
that's why, in the book that Ihave, coming out smart not loud,
it's really getting people tosee that, yes, individuals like
for example, people like me, wedo, gotta work on our
communication skills. Like wedo. We can't expect people to
notice us. But at the same time,like for folks who might be on
the more extroverted, loud side,don't see people who are quiet
(36:52):
and assume that, yeah, just givethem that project. They'll do it
right. It's like, no, they haveinterest too. You know,
sometimes you just have to askthem, or create the runway for
them to speak,
Dave Crenshaw (37:04):
and that's a great moment to talk about your
book, smart, not loud. So whenthis podcast, when this episode
comes out, it will be on theshelves and on Amazon. Can you
talk to us a little bit aboutthe process of creating that,
and what you hope people getfrom the book?
Jessica Chen (37:20):
Oh my gosh. This is such a labor of love. And
it's funny because I startedworking, I started working on
this book before I even gotpregnant, and before, and then,
like, you know, before my soncame. And then I say, like, all
those life things happened. Igot pregnant, I have my son, and
you know, now he's like, two anda half years old. And then now
this book is finally done. It'slike so many life things has
(37:42):
happened. So basically, thepoint is, it's been a long work
in progress, but yes, the bookis out in July, and it's called
smart, not loud, how to getnoticed at work for all the
right reasons. And it is writtenfor my folks, who tend to be on
that quieter side. And I'll tellyou, when I first conceptualized
(38:03):
this book, I actuallyspecifically was going to write
it for Asians and AsianAmericans in the workplace. But
after I sold the book to PenguinRandom House, and I'm working
with the amazing team atportfolio, they were like, you
know, a lot of the conceptsyou're talking about in the book
aren't just Asian principles,right? You know, things like
(38:23):
being humble, things like justputting your head down. I think
a lot of people can resonatewith that, even like, for
example, introverts. So I workedwith them over this last year to
basically broaden the theme. AndI loved that. I really loved
that because I wanted to invitemore people to to read the book.
So we worked on this. We changedsome of the terms, so I call it
now quiet culture, loud culture.
And then I talk about, like, howyou would want to approach it,
(38:47):
right? Like, how do you want toactually go into work every day?
What's the mindset that'll helpyou? And then the whole like,
kind of second half of the bookis all communications. Like,
what do you say? How do you sayit? How do you ask for what you
want? How do you put together anamazing elevator pitch, things
like that? Well,
Dave Crenshaw (39:06):
it sounds like that's an excellent resource for
people, especially those whocome from, as you put it, a
quiet culture, which you'reright, that's not unique to any
one group. Many people grow uplike that, or that's just their
natural disposition. So that's agreat resource. So one of the
things that I like to ask peoplewhen I interview them, Jessica,
(39:27):
it's a big thing for me tointerview people who have
achieved balance. So not justcareer success, but personal,
family health success, what'ssomething that you've learned to
help you have more balance andhave multifaceted success in
your life. I
Jessica Chen (39:43):
feel like I that this one word is popping up in
my mind right now, and it's theword of not feeling guilty, not
feeling guilty that sometimesyou gotta close your laptop, you
go downstairs, you play withyour kids, you talk to your.
Your partner, and you don't feelguilty that you're not doing
work right now. And I think, assomebody who is a go getter, a
(40:09):
high achiever, who I love work,I actually love work, and it's
not feeling guilty that I'm notdoing it, but rather, it's
putting that aside and justbeing present. But vice versa,
if I'm doing work, not feelingguilty that I'm not hanging out
with my family too.
Dave Crenshaw (40:26):
Yeah, well, you mentioned your book. You're
taking plays right out of a bookthat I wrote, which is the power
of having fun, and I talk aboutthe permission to play, giving
yourself that permission to doit, and creating the boundary
between work and personal, sothat you enjoy both. So sounds
like we're in agreement on thatpoint. For
Jessica Chen (40:47):
sure. I love that.
Okay,
Dave Crenshaw (40:49):
so Jessica, what I do at the end of every one of
these interviews is I like tosummarize some action steps that
someone can take. I'm a bigbeliever in doing, in taking
action so that I want someonewho's listened to your amazing
story to say, what can I do tomake Jessica's success story a
part of my success story? Sowhat I'm going to do is I'm
(41:11):
going to suggest three actionsthat stood out to me in this
interview, of something someonecan do this week, not a year
from now, but right now and thenI'd like you to chime in at the
end and give one potentialaction that you think someone
could take. Does that soundgood? Sounds great. Okay, so the
first one, and I think this isprobably the most obvious one
(41:32):
with your story, but it's stillincredibly valuable, is develop
the skill of communication. Getcurious about it, get interested
in it. Learn how to presentbetter. Learn how to write
better. These are essentialsuccess skills in our day. So
you can certainly take Jessica'scourses on LinkedIn learning and
(41:55):
of course, check out her booksmart not loud. These are
helpful resources to developthis essential skill of
communication. The second onestood out to me was going back
to that phrase, when we weretalking about spending your time
on different things, like withnews and that sort of stuff you
mentioned, considering the ROIof how you're spending your time
(42:17):
as a time management guy that'sspeaking my language, I like the
idea of considering, maybe evenmeasuring. How are things paying
off when I invest my time inthis? Am I getting a good return
on investment for it? And ifyou're not, it's okay to say,
You know what, I'm going to trysomething else now. But always
consider, am I getting a goodROI on that? And it's funny,
(42:39):
because that kind of leads intomy third principle here, this
third action, which is toparticipate in social media
where your customers are. So inJessica's case, and I would say
in my case, LinkedIn is thegreat place to go for that,
maybe for your customers, or ifyou're in a career, maybe where
(43:00):
your industry is is different.
Maybe for you it's, I don'tknow, Instagram or something
like that, but go where they areand then consistently post about
a consistent message. In fact, Iwrote down this phrase that sort
of summarized what you wereteaching. Jessica, consistency
of message, but variety ofmethod. So you're sharing about
(43:21):
finance, if that's your area ofexpertise, or productivity, if
that's my area of expertise, butmaybe we show a picture one time
and then we show a video anothertime. So just participate. I
can't believe when I do helppeople with their career. How
many times people aren'tparticipating on social media,
(43:44):
and it's a missed opportunity,not just to reach out to people,
but also to develop your ownexpertise and knowledge about a
subject? Jessica, what's anaction item you would suggest?
The
Jessica Chen (43:56):
one that I was thinking of is I would encourage
and challenge folks to do onething this week that will
celebrate their wins. And that'swhat I mean, celebrate something
that you did great this week.
And I mean this in the sense of,it doesn't have to be in this
loud, showy way, but if you hada great week, or even last week
(44:18):
was a great week, or you gotthis great email from somebody,
or you were really happy thatyou finished this one project.
Who is this one person you canshare that win with verbally or
through a forward of an email?
Because I feel like this is likethe anchor of what I always talk
(44:39):
about. Working hard isimportant. Working hard is
expected in any job, but I thinkwe have to get good at being
able to advocate for ourselves,because that is how we can get
noticed at work for all thoseright reasons that we're talking
about. Fantastic.
Dave Crenshaw (44:54):
I love that suggestion. Jessica, thank you
so much for sharing your wisdomwith us and. Being here. If
someone wants to continue tofollow you and stay up to date
with what you're sharing withthe world, what's the best place
for them to go do that?
Jessica Chen (45:08):
Well, certainly LinkedIn. That is where I am all
the time. That's where I'mconsistently posting all the
communications content we talkedabout. So you can add me Jessica
Chen, or I think the handle isJessica Chen page. Otherwise,
check out that book, smart, notloud, how to get noticed at work
for all the right reasons. It'svery much a communications book,
and it can help anyone, whetheryou grew up in that quiet
(45:30):
culture or loud culture. Thank
Dave Crenshaw (45:32):
you so much, Jessica for being here and
sharing this with us. I reallyappreciate it. Thanks so much,
Dave, and thank you everyone forlistening. Remember, it's not
just about the knowledge thatyou gained or how inspired you
were by Jessica. It's about theaction that you take. So do
something today, do somethingthis week, and you'll make
(45:53):
Jessica's success story a partof your success story. Thanks
for listening.
Darci Crenshaw (46:01):
You've been listening to the Dave Crenshaw
Success Show, hosted by my dad,Dave Crenshaw, and produced by
invaluable incorporated researchand assistant production by
Victoria bidez, Sound Editing byNick Wright, voiceover by me
Darci Crenshaw, and the music isby Ryan Brady via Pon five
(46:21):
licensing, please subscribe tothe Dave Crenshaw success show
on Apple podcasts Spotify,wherever you like to get your
podcast. If you have asuggestion for someone my dad
might like to interview, pleasesend it to guests at Dave
crenshaw.com and please don'tforget to leave us a five serve
you see you next time you.
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