November 13, 2024 • 53 mins
Jenny Woo, CEO and Founder of Mind Brain Emotion, is an emotional intelligence expert and educator. Jenny shares her journey from being a young immigrant from China to becoming a renowned leader in interpersonal skills. She discusses her diverse career path, from considering becoming a doctor or computer scientist to eventually finding her passion in training and developing people. Jenny also talks about the challenges of becoming a parent and how that led her to pursue a Harvard education and start her own business focused on making emotional intelligence accessible through educational games and products. Listen to her story and choose which action best fits your needs today!
Action Principles
Pick one to do this week:
1. Experiment. Trying new things and experiences will open the door to more opportunities. ACTION: Take a chance and do something you've been interested in but nervous to try.
2. Listen. Improve your listening skills to better understand those around you. ACTION: Take an active listening course.
3. Continued education. Expanding your knowledge is an investment in yourself. ACTION: Sign up for a LinkedIn Learning membership and schedule time to take courses that interest you.
4. Self-reflection. Understanding yourself and reflecting on your goals leads to long-term success. ACTION: Schedule a recurring time to spend time on self-reflection.
Guest Resources
Learn more from Jenny Woo on LinkedIn or by visiting MindBrainEmotion.com.
Suggest LinkedIn Learning Course
Delivering Results Effectively
Dave Crenshaw develops productive leaders in Fortune 500 companies, universities, and organizations of every size. He has appeared in Time magazine, USA Today, FastCompany, and the BBC News. His courses on LinkedIn Learning have been viewed tens of millions of times. His five books have been published in eight languages, the most popular of which is The Myth of Multitasking—a time management bestseller. As an author, speaker, and online instructor, Dave has transformed the lives and careers of hundreds of thousands around the world. DaveCrenshaw.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jenny Woo (00:01):
I never thought of myself being a teacher for a
little kid,but yet, being in that context,
I realized you also work withbig kids, which are the parents,
the adult who throws just asmany tantrums, if not more.
Dave Crenshaw (00:16):
That is sadly true. Yes, in this episode,
you'll get to know Jenny Wu, theemotional intelligence expert,
and you'll hear the story of howa young immigrant from China
became a world renowned leaderin interpersonal skills. I'm
Dave Crenshaw, and this is mysuccess Show.
(00:39):
Welcome back, friends to theDave Crenshaw Success Show. This
is where I speak to some of themost successful people in my
life's journey, and I'm lookingfor universal principles of
success to help both you and myfamily, in particular, my
children. In case it's yourfirst time here, I'm the best
selling author. I speak aroundthe world of Fortune 500
companies, and I've taughtmillions of people how to be
(01:00):
successful through my onlinecourses. With this show, I
wanted to create somethinginteresting, something
different, to help my familysucceed, and I thought you'd
enjoy learning along with them.
I'm always looking to interviewpeople who have multi faceted
success in many areas of theirlives, not just career or
financial success as importantas they are, I'm looking for
(01:21):
people who can teach youactions, show you things you can
do right now to become moresuccessful. So as you listen to
today's episode, listen forsomething you can do, some
action you can take today orthis week to make my guest
success story a part of yoursuccess story. And my guest
(01:43):
today has a fascinating story, avery interesting and colorful
career, and you're going to gainseveral excellent success skills
from her. Dr Jenny Wu is aHarvard trained educator, EQ
researcher and the founder, CEOof mind brain emotion. She's
passionate about making sciencepractical, so Dr Wu created
(02:07):
award winning card games thathelp kids and adults build
emotional intelligence. Hergames, 52 essential
conversations and 52 essentialcoping skills are popular in
over 50 countries, earning herfeatures in CNBC Fortune and
Forbes, just to name a few.
(02:29):
Jenny also teaches at theUniversity of California,
Irvine, and is a celebratedkeynote speaker. Jenny lives in
Southern California with herhusband, three kids and their
beloved poodle named oxytocin.
Jenny, thanks so much for beingon the show today. Well, I'm
happy to be here. Thanks forhaving me, Dave. Yeah, and where
are you located today? I am inSan Diego, California. San Diego
(02:50):
is a beautiful place. I likethat area. I was down there for
a speaking engagement not toolong ago. I really enjoyed it.
Yeah, it is gorgeous. We'reactually new to San Diego, so
I'm really excited to beexploring all the neighborhoods.
Yeah, lots of fun neighborhoodsto see. So let's dive into this.
I always like to ask my gueststhe same first question, Jenny,
(03:12):
which is, what did you want tobe when you grew up? When you
were young and first formingideas about your future career.
What did you think was going tohappen? Yeah, you know, Dave, I
was actually all over the place.
I had a lot of interest, and soI wanted to be a surgeon,
(03:33):
because I actually salivate in agood way when I see a surgery.
And this was touring our localhospital while taking AP Bio as
a teenager. And I was like, Oh,this is so cool, right? So that
gave me sort of the green light,Hey, maybe I could do this. But
yet, at the same time, I alsoreally enjoy just learning how
(03:55):
to code, teaching myself thedifferent coding languages and
so on the other hat, I'm like,Oh, what about a computer
scientist? That would be reallycool. And then, ever since I was
little, I wanted to be I didn'teven know this existed, but a
motivational speaker. Andpartially because, honestly, I
just love making people smileand making them happy and
(04:18):
confident and believing inthemselves. So you can imagine,
honestly, all over the place,and when it was coming time to
like a major I'm an immigrant,and so didn't really have a lot
of network around us in thecommunity, and really knowing
role models and what are sort ofthe career path in different
(04:40):
professions. And so being themost practical person that my
dad was, he was like, you know,I don't trust doctors. I don't
understand them when they talkto me, and they just bill me a
lot of stuff. So he was like,and honestly, it is a long exp.
Jenny Woo (05:00):
Expensive, hard road.
So don't be a doctor, right? Sovery counter intuitive to being
a Chinese parents, and so hesuggested going into business.
It's the most practical thingyou can be a generalist. And
honestly, that's something I'vebeen interested. I've always
sold on the playground, door todoor my whole life, I never
really quite thought that wasactually a profession, so I
(05:22):
ended up majoring in that. Oh,
Unknown (05:27):
that's interesting. I want to back up just a little
bit talk to us a little bitabout your experience as an
immigrant. You said you'reChinese. Is that where your
family came from? How did thatall come about?
Jenny Woo (05:38):
Yeah, so my parents actually came to the US five
years prior to me. And so I wasborn in China. I came over
around the age of 10. So for theprior five years, I had been
living and raised by mygrandparents. And so coming,
yeah, coming over to Houston,Texas, it was bewildering in the
(06:01):
sense of not just new cultureand new language, but it was
also reuniting with my parents,whom I hadn't seen for five
entire years. I mean, back then,we didn't have face time, didn't
even have a landline where mygrandparents lived. It was sort
of that kind of situation. Andso to see my parents for the
(06:24):
very first time in five yearswas kind of mind blowing. Yeah,
Unknown (06:29):
you'd be introduced someone new. Here's your mom and
dad, right,
Jenny Woo (06:33):
exactly. And my grandparents obviously said a
lot of things about my parentsthat I believed in, but it was
sort of now my time to live withthese two people that were my
parents and finding out onlayering, uncovering who they
were.
Unknown (06:49):
And was that in California that you started
Houston, Texas, and did you findthat experience welcoming
difficult? What was that likefor you to live the first part
of your life in China and thencome to the United States, it
was
Jenny Woo (07:03):
a lot of adapting and coping and kind of dealing with
the unknown and the uncertainty.
And I think for me, I was veryoutgoing. Loved talking to
people strangers, especiallyjust having a conversation and
to be here, not even knowing thealphabet. It just felt like I
couldn't fully express myself orcommunicate. And so in some
(07:27):
ways, you know, it forced me toreally read the social cues, to
really be observant and payattention to my surroundings and
the people around me, buthonestly, it was such a slow
process, lots of patiencerequired and positive self talk.
Unknown (07:48):
Well, you brought up what I was thinking, which is,
you know, your work is inemotional intelligence and an
empathy with people, and itseems like from a very early age
that unique experience wasforcing you to develop those
kinds of skills. It'sinteresting how that early
adversity or struggle that youdealt with seems to have shaped
(08:09):
where you ended up with yourcareer.
Jenny Woo (08:11):
Yeah, absolutely. It really forced you to unpack it
and break it, breaking it down,and, you know, building empathy,
a lot of the times is that we'vebeen there. We've struggled. We
know how it feels, and so thatenables us to really connect
with the people that we'rehelping, to have that common
(08:32):
language. Yeah,
Unknown (08:33):
okay, so let's return back to your college education.
Talk to us a little bit aboutwhat you learned during that
time. Did you have mentors? Whatwas that experience like?
Jenny Woo (08:42):
So I ended up majoring in business with a
minor in information systems andan unfinished minor in
interactive media and gamedesign. This was at the
University of SouthernCalifornia, and it was a
fabulous experience, in thesense that it was eye opening,
coming from Houston to LosAngeles, a metropolitan city
(09:06):
where it's rather nonconformist, lots of different
diversity and of opinions,experiences and socio economic
status. But I ended upgraduating that year early,
because for me, I think I getreally bored just simply
learning and not applying ordoing. In college, I did juggle
(09:29):
multiple jobs. So what I learnedwas that juggling, you know,
jobs in finance, doing stocks,commodity, even life insurance,
I realized, you know, numbers,that's not quite for me. I can't
really get passionate withnumbers. And I also worked as a
personal banker, and I was,like, not really into numbers,
but really into helping peopleand talking to people and
(09:50):
clients. And I also soldsoftware, this is, like, by
phone and fax at an internship.
And I realized, you know, pro. Xnot quite interested in that
either the features and thedesign. What I was really
interested in were working withpeople. And so I ended up owning
a business, starting a businessduring one of the summers, and
(10:12):
really working with companies tosell their services to new
students coming in, and so asbrokering people and knowledge
together. And so that's when Iwas like, Okay, I really enjoy
problem solving and working withpeople around that.
Unknown (10:34):
For those who have not been in a sales position, they
may not realize how much of itis about understanding other
people and helping other peopleand being empathetic with them.
So even though that wasn't foryou, I'm assuming you learned a
lot of valuable lessons for yourbusiness that helped with that
success. Yeah,
Jenny Woo (10:55):
you know, it was all about active listening. You
can't really connect withsomeone, or get to know their
needs, or selling to them untilyou actually know what's truly
important to them, and beingable to communicate to them and
the type of language that theycan really digest and
internalize. So that was one ofthe biggest learning for me.
Unknown (11:18):
So that first business, which is, I'm going to call it,
I don't know if it's still thebusiness, but typically that,
yeah, so you're shaking yourhead, because typically the
first business doesn't work outso well, is what I've seen in my
work with entrepreneurs. So howdid that go and how did it end
up?
Jenny Woo (11:36):
So I was at USC very well to do right resourced
campus. And so here I amthinking, wow. You know, these
kids coming in, fellow students,have so much money and lots of
international students as well,but what they need was where to
spend the money, right, andwhat's best for them. And so for
(11:59):
that business, it was a way ofcreating a student guide, but in
a very interactive format. Soback then, Flash, I don't know
if you remember this, oh mygoodness, just coming out. Yeah,
we go way back. Yeah, yeah. Sofor those of you who don't know,
it's one of the very firstinteractive, almost website, app
(12:22):
design, in some sense. So mygoal was, honestly, I just
wanted to learn how to use thesoftware. And so I said, why not
learn it? Why make some money?
So I created, wanted to createthis interactive guide where I
hook up with local businesseslike Bank of America, where I
was working, at office, default,different nightclubs, tattoo
(12:44):
parlors, cryo banks andrestaurants and buildings and
residential places, so that theyhave an interactive directory of
themselves with some marketingbullets and pictures so that
incoming students, or evenexisting students, will know
where they can go procureservices and get different
(13:07):
things. And so that's what Idid.
Unknown (13:12):
And where did you make money in that process? Was that
advertising for those companies?
How did that model work?
Jenny Woo (13:18):
Exactly. It was advertising based. So I
literally went, sort of door todoor or fax by fax or call by
call with the differentbusinesses, and basically said,
Hey, we have this X number ofstudents coming in and to USC,
and you know right now Yourpresence is not being known on
campus. So do this interactivedirectory. I'm going to hand it
(13:42):
out for free during on campusorientations and tours to the
students, and this is where theywill access and you can include
discounts, everything tailoredtoward the students needs. And
so I made money with businesses,
Unknown (13:57):
okay? And what would you say is the outcome of that.
Jenny Woo (14:02):
It was profitable, but I was still a student
myself, and I was tinkering andexploring, and I knew it wasn't
going to be the thing, and so Iended up dropping it after that
year, so as one season ofstudent guide, but
Unknown (14:16):
it was valuable from that learning experience, that
that was a educational success,
Jenny Woo (14:21):
absolutely. That's when I learned that I can fake
it till I make it. And that wasalso when I learned, oh my gosh,
these people actually believeme, because it felt like very
Playhouse ish, but they believeme, and these companies actually
paid me, so it gave me a massivedose of confidence, of self
(14:42):
empowerment.
Unknown (14:42):
Oh, that's beautiful.
So how did you transition intothe training industry and this
side of emotional intelligence?
Jenny Woo (14:50):
One of the mentors, amazing that I had, was a
professor that I had TA for incollege, and when it comes to
time for. To graduate to applyfor jobs, he recommended that I
look into consulting, because heknew I liked problem solving and
working with people, and so Iended up interviewing with
(15:11):
Deloitte Consulting, and thatwas my first job. So I
interviewed for it, which ismore of a technical analyst bro
at Deloitte. But unbeknownst tome, my interviewers and staffing
managers would have reallylooked at my experiences, and
somehow they decided I was moreof a fit for human capital.
Unknown (15:35):
For those who are not familiar with it, what is human
capital? Human
Jenny Woo (15:39):
capital is where you do more learning and
development. So you are atrainer at different fortune,
500 companies, you would trainanywhere from new employees,
onboarding them, to working withseasoned employees around
leadership development or systemtraining, business training,
(16:00):
anything that is needed, as wellas building organizations, teams
and the communication planrelated to running a business.
So very different from thetechnical aspect,
Unknown (16:12):
what skills did you need to learn to be successful
than that? Because that seemslike a pretty big departure from
what you were doing, which is alittle more information systems,
a little bit more sales. How didyou adapt to that position?
Jenny Woo (16:27):
I didn't even know it existed, honestly, and I didn't
find out till my first day ofwork and but what I learned was,
you know, you needed a lot ofpeople skills. You needed,
again, that listening skill tounderstand what your clients
need, and really thatprofessionalism in engaging with
someone, in my case, as a young,20 year old, you know, someone
(16:51):
who's 30s and 40s, to be able toreally prove your credibility
and that you're authenticallyListening and you are here for
them. So that type of socialskills and people skills, again,
going back to empathy, werecritical in this role. What
Unknown (17:08):
you're saying is something that I can really
relate to. Because when Istarted my career and I was
working with entrepreneurs, Ialready kind of had a baby face,
so I was, you know, 23 and Ilook like I was 15, and I
started coaching entrepreneurswho were in their 40s and 50s.
(17:31):
For me, the confidence that Igained was relying on someone
else's credibility and someoneelse's material. How did you
develop the confidence in thatsetting to consult people who
were older than you and may havethought, why is this young
person trying to tell me what todo? Yeah,
Jenny Woo (17:51):
absolutely. I certainly relied on the brand of
Deloitte, right? It wasabsolutely filtered, but yet, at
the same time, I felt pressuredto represent Deloitte at a
positive light. Because, youknow, internally, we have the
stroke saying, you know, ifyou're a new consultant, don't
read consulting for dummies bookin front of your client, right?
(18:14):
So all those career limitingmoves, those landmines that you
had to watch out for. So Irelied honestly in just really
listening and acting mature,right, instead of your demeanor,
in some sense, and also yourresults right at the end of the
(18:35):
day, it's also what you createand what you recommend.
Unknown (18:38):
Okay, so this is a great place for us to pause and
dive into a principle thatyou've already brought up, and a
principle that I'm sure youteach with all of your work on
emotional intelligence, which islistening. And the reason why I
want to emphasize that, and haveyou kind of teach us a little
bit is a lot of times peoplethink that it's about me showing
(18:59):
someone else that I know whatI'm doing, I have the knowledge
to help you. And in fact, inconsulting and coaching and on a
lot of things, it's not aboutwhat you know, it's about your
ability to listen to the otherperson, share what they know,
and then help them make gooddecisions based on that. So
could you talk to us a littlebit about how someone could do a
(19:21):
better job of listening.
Jenny Woo (19:22):
So listening is really about getting curious of
the other person, right? It'snot about simply listening so
you can respond, and you'recrafting your answer, trying to
show off while the otherperson's listening talking,
you're absolutely listening, andit's you're not just listening
to what they're saying, butyou're also listening to what
(19:43):
they're not saying, and one ofthe fundamental important thing
to also keep in mind is leavethe judgment aside. We have
biases assumptions, so we needto really check how we're
internally responding to. Peoplewhile we're listening. I think
it's really important to be aclean slate and listen to
(20:06):
understand instead of listeningto judge. And I
Unknown (20:10):
would add to that, it puts people at ease, but they, I
believe, perceive you to be moreintelligent when you actually
don't say quite as much yousaid, you know, listen to what
they're not saying. But also, Iwould say paying attention to
what you don't need to say, andinstead allow it to breathe and
(20:31):
allow someone else to say it,and then they go, man, Jenny's
really smart. Dave is reallysmart. Well, actually, no, I
just kind of was quiet and Iallowed you to express your
intelligence, rather than metrying to fill in everything
that you were saying
Jenny Woo (20:48):
exactly. And you know that poignant pause, right?
Sometimes you if you just giveit a little bit of a pause and
be comfortable with that, theperson will keep going and
perhaps reveal something thatthey weren't actually intending
to reveal, and it gives thepsychological safety right, the
space to allow the person tocarry on and to sort of self
(21:12):
reflect and synthesize whatthey're saying themselves in the
process.
Unknown (21:17):
Yeah, that's such a great principle. Okay, so you
had a lot of different thingsyou said in the beginning when
you were a kid. You had lots ofdifferent things that you're
interested in. Your career hasnot been a straight line, right?
Lots of different experiencesthat you've had. I would love
first of all to have you talkgenerally about that, like, why
(21:40):
did you do that? How do you feelabout that? And then maybe share
one specific job that you hadthat influences what you do
today.
Jenny Woo (21:49):
It seems to be all over the place, but there
certainly is a common thread ofworking with people, people
development. But one thing thathas really worked for me, that
I've learned along the way,again, that common denominator
is you can create your ownopportunities. And by
opportunities I mean somethingthat's even unimaginable. So one
(22:14):
example is while I was atDeloitte, I ended up getting a
little bit bored, and thetypical path for a consultant is
to go to business school. And sothat's sort of the point where I
was thinking, Oh, maybe it'stime to move on. Yet I still
needed to make a living whileapplying to grad school. And so
what I ended up doing, which issort of far off, is, you know,
(22:38):
at the time, I really enjoyedthis coaching people, but not
just professionally, but alsopersonally, and that mind body
connection, so I didn't knowit's possible, but I was just
kind of having fun andexploring. And so I worked out
at, say, 24 hour finish the gym,and I saw these fitness
trainers, and I was like, thatlooked like a fun job, and I bet
(23:01):
there's some transferable skillsI can use to be able to do the
same thing, but I need to learnthe skills of a fitness trainer,
right? The basics. And so Iended up getting a job, and I
got the job as a fitnesstrainer, and they paid for me to
get certified. And so you cantransfer and make these
opportunities, and there werealso, when I say the impossible,
(23:24):
the unimaginable, what I meanwas that when I decided to leave
Deloitte, my client was Chevron,and part of being in an
established consulting firm isthe non compete cloth. You
cannot work for the same firm,and you know, you have to move
on, but my clients at Chevronreally enjoyed my work and my
(23:46):
contribution, and so what hadhappened, again, unbeknownst to
me, was that they ended upmaking a deal with Deloitte,
with the partners, so that theyended up hiring me directly
After as a contractor, whichyou're not supposed to do, but
somehow it ended up being ongood terms, and I was ended up
(24:07):
charging the same billable ratethat Deloitte was charging on
behalf of me, but now it's itwas all going into my own
pocket. So that was eye opening.
And I don't want to say it wasjust kind of materialized,
right? Obviously, there will belots of hard work involved, and
you would plant some seeds, andobviously results, again, speak
louder, right? So I think it'sthat knowing that process and
(24:31):
putting in the hard work andknowing where you can broaden
the hard work to that made thedifference. The
Unknown (24:40):
phrase that comes to mind that I love is Chance
favors the prepared, and theseopportunities came about because
you were doing great work,because you were working so
hard, and then something newhappened. I mean, that's what
happened with me, with withLinkedIn learning. I've now been
with them for close to 15 years,but that. When that opportunity
(25:01):
first came in 2010 I wasn't evenaware of something like being an
online educator, but the workthat I did in coaching others
and consulting others, and thework that I did in writing a
book set me up for thatopportunity. So when it came was
like, oh, it just happened.
Well, no, I did the work and youdid the work to put yourself in
(25:21):
that place so that when theopportunity came, you were able
to seize it absolutely.
Jenny Woo (25:27):
Understanding those building blocks, right, and
having a general vision of whereyou're trying to go is
important. Yeah,
Unknown (25:36):
what was something that did not work during that time,
what was a failure that you had,that you learned from? Yeah,
Jenny Woo (25:46):
I hate calling things failure, because everybody makes
mistakes, and it has such anegative connotation. I think we
learn as long as we learnsomething, it's part of the
process. But to answer yourquestion, right here, I am
helping people to learn, bepoised, be better, leaders,
human beings. And yet, you know,it was eye opening when I became
(26:11):
a mom, and here I am at home,not composed, crazy, crazy and
being so stressed out, going, Ohmy gosh. I'm supposed to keep
these human beings alive. And bythe way, I had one and two, very
shortly, twins. So I had three,under three, all in diapers.
Dave Crenshaw (26:29):
Oh my goodness.
So
Jenny Woo (26:31):
it was Yeah, exactly so not quite failure, but it was
humbling, and seeing myself inthis light and going, Who am I
anymore? Do I know this personand what am I supposed to do? So
it entirely flipped my lifeupside down. And in fact, I
ended up changing career,leaving jobs, and, you know, all
(26:52):
that good stuff that I can talkabout,
Unknown (26:54):
yeah, well, please do talk about that, because I think
a lot of people experience thosetransitional moments like that,
where maybe they become aparent, or something changes
with their health, whatever itis. So I would love for you to
talk about how you came to thedecision that, yes, I need to
change my career because of thischange in circumstance.
Jenny Woo (27:14):
So my twins were preemies, one was for less than
three pounds, and the other onecouldn't breathe on his own. So
it was not, yeah, so it was,it's very scary, right? When
it's always health related, andit was not a smooth journey. And
so I think the combination ofneeding to take care of my kids
(27:37):
and also, to be very honest withyou, Dave, I didn't have the
most ideal childhood, so part ofme is very much really wanting
to be that parent that I didn'thave to have that childhood and
give that to my kids. And socoupled with all of those, I
(27:57):
decided, you know, it was reallyhard to stay engaged at work.
And at the time, I was in aleadership rotational program at
Cisco Systems in the in SiliconValley, and it was, you know,
stressful, high expectation,high visibility job, and I just
felt like I couldn't give it myall in terms of employee
(28:17):
engagement. And so that gave methe difficult decision to leave
the job, and so I left, focusedmy time with the kids. Did some
contracting on my own fortraining, leadership
development, but really it wasboth of my kids, but I have to
say it was from that experiencethat I also again, learned some
(28:40):
of the unimaginable, or thepossibilities are much wider
than I thought. And so I endedup starting a successful Etsy
business, oh, and then later onbecoming an educator, and got
educated at Harvard myself anddoing what I'm doing now.
Unknown (28:58):
Okay, I want to talk about Harvard, but first of all,
that's just really curious. AnEtsy business. What were you
selling in the Etsy business?
Jenny Woo (29:06):
Yeah, lots of things.
I always liked. Do it yourself.
DIY did that for my wedding. Didthat for a kid's birthdays. And
so at the time, Photo Boothprops were just coming out. So I
made Photo Booth props, themustaches, the eyeglasses, the
Tierra, all you can think of forweddings and kids, birthdays and
(29:27):
kids, banners and honestly,Dave, these were all just came
out of my own creation for myown parties. And it was really
it just took a friend who said,Hey, Jenny, you know, people
actually buy these things onEtsy. And my response was,
what's Etsy? Yeah, right, right.
And so you just get curious lookinto it, and that's how it
(29:49):
happened. Would
Unknown (29:52):
you consider that like a side hustle, a side hobby, or
were you actually trying to turnit into a full business when you
did that? Yeah.
Jenny Woo (30:00):
It was definitely a side hustle. My priority were
still my kids, but I ended upengaging with the other fellow
parents, moms, and they workedfor me, and we ended up working
on some high celebrity weddingevents and misbuts and things
around that.
Unknown (30:16):
And if you're comfortable with it, I'd be
curious to know a little bitabout what the what the
conversations were like, whatthe decision making process was
like with your husband at thattime, right? Because there's a
lot of changes that arehappening, and you're
experimenting with a fewdifferent career paths. How did
you two come together and comeup with a plan together to make
(30:39):
it work?
Jenny Woo (30:40):
There are lots of conversations to be had, because
I've had a lot of twists andturns, but I have to say, having
a supportive partner who alsolistens is incredibly important,
and he is one. And in myyouthful days, I definitely I
was, you know, headstrong,stubborn, you know, have my
(31:02):
ways, and sometimes I also hadsort of like a victimized
outlook, in some sense, becausebeing a mom and being a mom of
three and preemies were reallyhard, and I honestly had my
resentful moments. Because forme, I think the initial
conversation of leaving my jobwas really partially like we
need to take care of the kidsand economically and make more
(31:25):
sense that I take care of three.
But for me, I was feeling also abit resentful and just mourning
over my identity in the businessworld, because I got my MBA from
Berkeley, you know, was on thistrack and leadership
development, but I had to leavedespite being partly, you know,
my choice, really. And so he wasthere not only to support my
(31:46):
decision, but to help meunderstand what I had to offer
and my opportunities. So hewould say, you know, I'm on your
team. I'm your biggestcheerleader. And that was one of
the thing that really just savedus on the same page. What a
Unknown (32:05):
wonderful thing to say and be for someone else. That's
fantastic. And I want to say toothat, do you have to have a
partner to be successful? No,but it does seem like that is a
bit of a pattern of the peoplethat I interviewed that they
have someone in their life whois highly supportive, like that,
(32:28):
it gives them a reservoir of ofstrength that they can depend
on. It sounds like that was thathas been certainly a factor in
your success.
Jenny Woo (32:36):
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, this ability to divide
and conquer. You don't needsomeone who's doing exactly what
you're doing in order tounderstand you. In fact, he's
sort of a bit of an opposite inthat sense. But you just need
the understanding, the empathyfor each other, right? And being
on the same team together,
Unknown (32:58):
that's wonderful. So Okay, let's talk about Harvard.
How did that come about? Whatwere you planning on studying
there? What did you study there?
Jenny Woo (33:05):
Harvard was something that really came about after I
had been a Montessori schooldirector at the kids, my kids'
schools. And you know, I neverthought of myself being a
teacher for little kids. Butyet, being in that context, I
realized you also work with bigkids, which are the parents, the
(33:27):
adults who throw just as manytantrums, if not more. That
Dave Crenshaw (33:32):
is sadly true.
Yes.
Jenny Woo (33:34):
So I was like, hmm, that I began to think, Well, why
can't they teach these emotionalintelligence, human decent,
empathy skills, much earlier on,so that I don't have to deal
with adults that we see today.
And Dave, you know, working incompanies, right? Coaching
leaders to be able to be goodmanagers, not the toxic
(33:57):
workplace, sort of thatenvironment, right? So those all
came into my decision to studyat Harvard, and this was at the
School of Education with aspecial focus in developmental
cognitive neuroscience, becauseI really wanted to understand,
what does the science say interms of how we learn, how we
(34:19):
think and how we act,
Unknown (34:24):
and what did you gain from that education in
particular to help with that?
Jenny Woo (34:32):
You know, a lot of the times when you go to school,
especially being older, I thinkit's not just what you learn
inside the classrooms, butreally outside the classrooms,
the informal conversations, theobservations, and for me, then,
as a 35 year old, a rather nontraditional person going into
graduate school master'sprogram, I was not just there to
(34:56):
really learn from theprofessors, but I was there to
observe what kind of. Peoplewere successful enough to go to
Harvard, so I very much observedmy colleagues, the fellow
students, and that is where Ilearned, you know, this
importance of as a child, havingthese supportive relationships,
(35:17):
whether it's a teacher, youknow, a parent, or a relative
that really makes so muchdifference, and having those
incredibly importantconversations, not just learning
to learn, but conversationsabout life, life lessons,
experiences that were important.
And so those are the things thatreally inspired me to create,
(35:38):
the cards, the products that Ihave today. And, you know, it's
funny, in the beginning, I saidit's really hard to get
passionate about products, andironically, I'm doing products,
but my mission was really todistill, and almost, yeah, I
used the word smuggle To behonest, because I'm the first
(35:58):
one and my family to graduatecollege, and so to go to Harvard
was beyond my dreams, and so Iwanted to smuggle out all these
amazing knowledge research andthese informal lessons
conversations I was having inand outside of the classrooms,
so that everyone can understand,learn, apply and enjoy, as
(36:20):
accessible as it can be.
Unknown (36:24):
What's an interesting word, smuggle. Does it seem like
it's protected knowledge? Like,what is it about that where you
felt like, Oh, I'm getting awaywith something, or I'm taking
something that other peopledon't know? What caused that
mindset. It's
Jenny Woo (36:42):
two folds. It's actually the institution, but
also my own perception ofmyself. So academia, especially
within the ivory tower, there isa sense of prestige meritocracy,
right? You have to get in to getaccess to this information, and
that's what today'sunfortunately, college
(37:03):
admissions is all about thiscraze, right? So smuggling in
that sense is, well, I'msneaking all this out of the
ivory tower of research ofhigher education, and in my
view, I'm creating it in a waythat the average Joe or Jenny
down the street doesn't matterif you're a teenager, you've
(37:25):
never gone to college, neverintend to that's perfectly fine
that you can apply, becauseapplication is the most
important thing to me. So that'sone fold. But the second one is,
you know, to be honest, I'vealways had this imposter
syndrome. You know, maybe it'scarried over of being the
immigrant, being the one who'salways on the outside, not quite
(37:47):
trying to, you know, belong andfit in, and understand the
language, the culture, and youknow, all that resourceful
things that you're supposed toknow. And so for me, it's also
like sometimes, you know, to behonest, I do question like, did
I earn it enough? So thatprobably also, is also why I use
(38:08):
the word smuggle. Yeah,
Unknown (38:09):
that's really interesting. I can relate to
that concept. The way that Ithink of it is one foot in, one
foot out, meaning I'm not fullyindoctrinated in something. I
can appreciate it, but I canlook at it say, what do people
need? So for example, like withmy first book, The Myth of
Multitasking, my job was not tobe the expert. My job was to be
(38:32):
the evangelist. Someone else isthe expert. They've already done
the studies, they've done theresearch. But the question is,
how do we get people to changebehavior. Use the Word
application, right? That's thequestion. How do we take all
this wonderful research andknowledge that other people are
doing and actually get humanbeings to act on that knowledge?
So I think you and I are kindredspirits in that
Jenny Woo (38:57):
respect. Yeah, absolutely, Dave. I love that
briefly
Unknown (39:01):
talk about what is the value of a Harvard education
like in your career, that's apretty heady name to have
associated with you. Do you feelthat that has made a significant
difference? Do you feel here'sthe big question people wonder.
Do you feel like it was worthit, like you're getting the ROI
(39:23):
back from that?
Jenny Woo (39:25):
Honestly, it's how you make it worth it for you.
And in some ways, in the case ofHarvard, right this huge,
internationally, well knownbrand, I hate to say it, it's
also how you milk it. So how doyou use and leverage this brand?
And it was until Harvard that Irealized that, you know, I
(39:49):
should own it, because I'veearned it. And again, going with
that imposter syndrome, I'vealways felt like, you know, I
already have had a master.
Degree from Berkeley beforethen, you know, and some
certifications, but I alwaysfelt like I shouldn't brag,
otherwise, in some ways, I'm asellout to my upbringing, you
(40:09):
know. And I've always beentaught to be very modest and
humble, and so having attendedHarvard was actually the first
time where I realized, you knowwhat, I did it, and I should
celebrate it instead of hidingit, which is a tendency I like
to do. Because, honestly, I likepeople to just see me for who I
(40:33):
am. I don't like to leverage.
Again, we talked about dependingon something, right, depending
on the brand. But yet, the cruelthing is that in the business
world and the entrepreneurworld, you need these things to
give you credibility, toautomatically help people filter
out who they're talking to andwhy they're talking and your
(40:56):
potential in some way, right?
And so for me to answer your bigquestion, it absolutely was
worth it 1000 times, and it hasreally done a significant impact
on my life, partly because Ileverage it, and partly because
of the brand itself and thenetwork. Well,
Unknown (41:15):
it's also the nature of what you're doing. You are a
subject matter expert, and anexpert has expertise, and so to
be able to tie yourself to, asyou mentioned, an
internationally recognized brandin college just adds more
credibility to your expertise.
So I think that's brilliant, andI love your response to that.
Talk to me now about what yourdays are like what is a daily
(41:40):
life in someone who is trying toreach people and help them learn
greater emotional intelligence.
Jenny Woo (41:49):
Honestly, my day first is really a mother, again,
still that mother of three, butnow there are three middle
schoolers. And you know how itis, Dave, just what you thought
you you're done with my onemilestone. You have the
routines, something else comesup. So we are at a new school
and a new city, so my days arereally open to, you know, what
(42:14):
things might come up, and reallyadapting, adjusting to this new
environment alongside my kids,but really, you know, I created
this business so that I can havefreedom financially, but also
from a time perspective. And soI honestly, right now I'm really
(42:34):
treating my business again likea side hustle, so that enables
me to do what is needed and whatis fun, right? The extra
curriculars, the traveling andall the good stuff. And that's
by intentionality. And you know,this really came about about two
years ago, because I had beenrunning the business since 2018
(42:55):
the year I graduated Harvard,but I continued on to earn a
PhD. So I have been a student, aparent student, for a long time,
and so it was until two yearsafter
Unknown (43:08):
there's a lot of stuff that's going on. So as a time
management expert, I look atthis and I go, Okay, what's
going on with the math here?
Right? 168 hours. How's shespending those in the week? So
how do you wrangle all of thosedifferent things that are going
on?
Jenny Woo (43:29):
You know, honestly, it's about working smart, and
you're not chasing perfection.
You need to understand yourpriority. And for me, the
hardest portion was really beingthe student parent, and so how I
split my time was really beforekids got up, I did some work,
but it was really prioritizingwhat on, what needed to be done,
(43:52):
and also while kids were inschool, as well as in the
Evening. So obviously, you know,I traded watching TV to getting
stuff done, but at the same timefor me as a parent, I was really
adamant about being there for mykids, right, making the
concerts, the talent shows, theperformances, and having sort of
(44:14):
those golden hour to three hoursto interact with them, to
understand how their days went.
And
Unknown (44:25):
are you, I'm assuming, you're protecting those times,
for example, like you're notallowing yourself to be
interrupted with text messagesand emails and that sort of
thing while you're focused onfamily activities.
Jenny Woo (44:39):
You know that is my goal. I can't say 100% I'm
perfect in that. And in fact, Iwas just speaking on this term
phubbing. Right? For those ofyou who don't know, phobing is
when you are browsing yourphone, whether it's for work or
for leisure, while someone elseis next to you, talking to you.
I think we're all guilty ofthat, right? So. I do my best to
(45:01):
not. Fub, well, I am spendingquality time with my kids. And
yes, you are correct even now.
You know, working wise, I tellpeople, you know, I can be
available between the hours of
nine or 10am to to 2 (45:13):
30pm those are really my golden working
hours. Anytime after that, Iprefer not to work.
Unknown (45:21):
Yeah, that's great. I so I actually do an exercise
Jenny on my keynote speeches,where I have someone Fub on
someone else. We have one personlisten the first time someone
talks about something they'repassionate about for like, 30
seconds. Oh, I love the sport,or whatever it is, and then they
switch roles, and the otherperson fubs, while the person is
(45:43):
talking to them. And I ask, howdoes that make you feel? And
everyone uses some phrase theform of the word unimportant.
They feel less valuable becausesomeone is doing that. So
speaking of EQ, that's a reallyimportant thing for us to be
aware of. And in fact, let's,let's use this. We do have to
eventually wrap up here. This isa fantastic conversation. Could
(46:05):
you share with us something thatsomeone would learn in one of
your classes or in one of yourbrilliant games, your card deck?
Share a principle with us,please, of how to have more
emotional intelligence with thepeople around us. One
Jenny Woo (46:20):
thing I say is we do emotional intelligence because
we want to know how to makeemotions work for us and not
against us. We've all had theseincidents where we blurted out
or done something that we laterregret, and so one thing to know
is that no one is perfect. It'snot like a subject that you ace
(46:41):
it and you move on. It's acontinuous process, and it's
context specific. So thefundamental things we need to do
is to build our self awareness.
And by that, I mean to reallytake some time during your day,
whether it's five minutes, 10minutes, to self reflect. What
are some of the emotions you'reexperiencing, and how are those
emotions causing you to thinkthe stuff that you might say to
(47:04):
yourself, are those positive ornegative? Do you see things as a
threat or as a challenge? Andhow is it causing you to take
some actions? For example, areyou avoiding something? Avoiding
doing something because you'reafraid, right or not sure? Or
are you launching into it? Maybebecause you're rather impulsive.
(47:27):
So it really starts with thoselittle sprinkles of self check
to build your self awareness,and then from there, you
understand how to regulate yourbehaviors, emotions, and how to
do the same with other people.
Yeah,
Unknown (47:46):
the way that I'm reinterpreting that is almost
view yourself like you're apassenger, like you're looking
at and saying, What is this?
What is this person? Jenny,doing? Why is Dave running away
from this? And if you can be alittle bit more objective about
yourself. You can see thosepatterns easier. Is that a
proper way to look at it?
Jenny Woo (48:06):
Great. Summary, be that fly on the wall and observe
yourself.
Unknown (48:10):
Yeah. Well, this is fantastic, Jenny. I've really
enjoyed getting to know you. Soat the end of every episode,
what I do is, because I'm a fanof application like you, I like
to help the listener findsomething they can do, something
they can do today or this week,so that they actually take
(48:31):
action on our conversation, notjust be inspired by it. So what
I'm going to do is I'm going tosummarize three actions that
stood out to me, and then I'dlike you to suggest one
additional one at the end. Doesthat sound good? Sounds great.
Okay, so the first one thatwe've identified throughout your
story and throughout yourjourney is being willing to
(48:54):
experiment, being willing to trylots of different things, even
if you don't know how it's goingto turn out. In the end, you
were confident in starting thatexperiment of having the
business in college, and thenyou've you experimented with
Etsy, and you experimented withall these different job
(49:14):
opportunities that you've had,educational opportunities like
Harvard. All of it is useful ifyou do your best. And Jenny
created lots of opportunitiesfor herself because of her
willingness to try differentthings. So I would ask someone
listening to this to considerwhat's something that maybe I'm
(49:34):
afraid to try and maybe justexperiment with it. It's okay if
it doesn't work out the way youintended, it can still open
doors in the future. The secondone is the value of listening.
And Jenny said, listen to whatthey are not saying and leave
the judgment aside no matterwhat you're trying to
accomplish, whether it's grow inyour career, make a sale or
(49:59):
build a relationship. With yourpartner, listen. Just pause and
leave room for people and spendtime listening to them. You
cannot go wrong. You will alwaysbenefit from taking that time to
listen to others. And then thelast one is just a general
example from Jenny's story. Isthe value of education. Jenny
(50:22):
has always been learningthroughout her life, she's a
sponge for knowledge, and Ithink that's something we all
can do a little bit more with.
You don't have to go to Harvardto do it. You don't even
necessarily have to go back tocollege, but you can carve aside
time in your week. For example,you could take courses on
LinkedIn learning. And everytime you devote time to gaining
(50:44):
education, it's always time wellspent. So create a schedule for
yourself to do just a little bitmore with that. Jenny, what's an
action that you would suggestfrom this conversation? Yeah,
Jenny Woo (50:58):
well said. Dave, so I would combine actually your
number two and three, you said,listening to others in
education. And I would say,also, listen to yourself and
learn from yourself in terms ofwhat is it that you really want
to do. And by listening, I mean,give yourself the time to really
think this is really is anenvironment where I see myself
(51:20):
thriving. Do I really have thatmuch energy in my body when I
think about doing somethingright? Because a lot of the
times these days, I see people,especially emotional
intelligence. Standpoint, isthat we have this sense of FOMO,
right? We don't want to miss outon the next biggest thing, or,
you know, we have that shinyobject syndrome of, we need to
(51:41):
get into this, because this iswhere the market is going. Yes,
but are you listening toyourself in terms of, is that
really what you're interestedin, what you really want to do?
So take the time to listen alsoto yourself.
Unknown (51:55):
Yeah, that's fantastic.
Thank you for that, Jenny, I'vereally enjoyed our conversation.
You have such a fascinatingcareer in life. If someone wants
to continue to follow you andlearn from you, where is the
best place for them to go?
Jenny Woo (52:08):
LinkedIn is the best place just look up Jenny Wu or
you can find me on my website,which is mind brain emotion.com,
same with Instagram and YouTubeat mind brain emotion.
Unknown (52:21):
Mind brain emotion.
Jenny, it's been a real pleasureto get to know you. Thank you so
much for sharing some of yourtime generously with us. Well,
thank you for having me, Dave,and thank you everyone for
listening. Remember, it's notjust about the knowledge that
you received or how you wereinspired. It's about the action
that you take. So do one thingthis week, from what you heard
(52:41):
in this interview, and you'llmake Jenny's success story a
part of your success story.
Thanks for listening.
Darci Crenshaw (52:53):
You've been listening to the Dave Crenshaw
Success Show, hosted by my dad,Dave Crenshaw, and produced by
invaluable incorporated researchand assistant production by
Victoria Bidez, Sound Editing byNikic Wright, voiceover by me
Darci Crenshaw, and the music isby Ryan Brady via Pon five
(53:13):
licensing, please subscribe tothe Dave Crenshaw success show
on Apple podcasts, Spotify,wherever you like to get your
podcast. If you have asuggestion for someone my dad
might like to interview, pleasesend it to guests at Dave
crenshaw.com and please don'tforget to leave us a five star
review. See you next time you.
I never thought of myself being a teacher for a
little kid,but yet, being in that context,
I realized you also work withbig kids, which are the parents,
the adult who throws just asmany tantrums, if not more.
Dave Crenshaw (00:16):
That is sadly true. Yes, in this episode,
you'll get to know Jenny Wu, theemotional intelligence expert,
and you'll hear the story of howa young immigrant from China
became a world renowned leaderin interpersonal skills. I'm
Dave Crenshaw, and this is mysuccess Show.
(00:39):
Welcome back, friends to theDave Crenshaw Success Show. This
is where I speak to some of themost successful people in my
life's journey, and I'm lookingfor universal principles of
success to help both you and myfamily, in particular, my
children. In case it's yourfirst time here, I'm the best
selling author. I speak aroundthe world of Fortune 500
companies, and I've taughtmillions of people how to be
(01:00):
successful through my onlinecourses. With this show, I
wanted to create somethinginteresting, something
different, to help my familysucceed, and I thought you'd
enjoy learning along with them.
I'm always looking to interviewpeople who have multi faceted
success in many areas of theirlives, not just career or
financial success as importantas they are, I'm looking for
(01:21):
people who can teach youactions, show you things you can
do right now to become moresuccessful. So as you listen to
today's episode, listen forsomething you can do, some
action you can take today orthis week to make my guest
success story a part of yoursuccess story. And my guest
(01:43):
today has a fascinating story, avery interesting and colorful
career, and you're going to gainseveral excellent success skills
from her. Dr Jenny Wu is aHarvard trained educator, EQ
researcher and the founder, CEOof mind brain emotion. She's
passionate about making sciencepractical, so Dr Wu created
(02:07):
award winning card games thathelp kids and adults build
emotional intelligence. Hergames, 52 essential
conversations and 52 essentialcoping skills are popular in
over 50 countries, earning herfeatures in CNBC Fortune and
Forbes, just to name a few.
(02:29):
Jenny also teaches at theUniversity of California,
Irvine, and is a celebratedkeynote speaker. Jenny lives in
Southern California with herhusband, three kids and their
beloved poodle named oxytocin.
Jenny, thanks so much for beingon the show today. Well, I'm
happy to be here. Thanks forhaving me, Dave. Yeah, and where
are you located today? I am inSan Diego, California. San Diego
(02:50):
is a beautiful place. I likethat area. I was down there for
a speaking engagement not toolong ago. I really enjoyed it.
Yeah, it is gorgeous. We'reactually new to San Diego, so
I'm really excited to beexploring all the neighborhoods.
Yeah, lots of fun neighborhoodsto see. So let's dive into this.
I always like to ask my gueststhe same first question, Jenny,
(03:12):
which is, what did you want tobe when you grew up? When you
were young and first formingideas about your future career.
What did you think was going tohappen? Yeah, you know, Dave, I
was actually all over the place.
I had a lot of interest, and soI wanted to be a surgeon,
(03:33):
because I actually salivate in agood way when I see a surgery.
And this was touring our localhospital while taking AP Bio as
a teenager. And I was like, Oh,this is so cool, right? So that
gave me sort of the green light,Hey, maybe I could do this. But
yet, at the same time, I alsoreally enjoy just learning how
(03:55):
to code, teaching myself thedifferent coding languages and
so on the other hat, I'm like,Oh, what about a computer
scientist? That would be reallycool. And then, ever since I was
little, I wanted to be I didn'teven know this existed, but a
motivational speaker. Andpartially because, honestly, I
just love making people smileand making them happy and
(04:18):
confident and believing inthemselves. So you can imagine,
honestly, all over the place,and when it was coming time to
like a major I'm an immigrant,and so didn't really have a lot
of network around us in thecommunity, and really knowing
role models and what are sort ofthe career path in different
(04:40):
professions. And so being themost practical person that my
dad was, he was like, you know,I don't trust doctors. I don't
understand them when they talkto me, and they just bill me a
lot of stuff. So he was like,and honestly, it is a long exp.
Jenny Woo (05:00):
Expensive, hard road.
So don't be a doctor, right? Sovery counter intuitive to being
a Chinese parents, and so hesuggested going into business.
It's the most practical thingyou can be a generalist. And
honestly, that's something I'vebeen interested. I've always
sold on the playground, door todoor my whole life, I never
really quite thought that wasactually a profession, so I
(05:22):
ended up majoring in that. Oh,
Unknown (05:27):
that's interesting. I want to back up just a little
bit talk to us a little bitabout your experience as an
immigrant. You said you'reChinese. Is that where your
family came from? How did thatall come about?
Jenny Woo (05:38):
Yeah, so my parents actually came to the US five
years prior to me. And so I wasborn in China. I came over
around the age of 10. So for theprior five years, I had been
living and raised by mygrandparents. And so coming,
yeah, coming over to Houston,Texas, it was bewildering in the
(06:01):
sense of not just new cultureand new language, but it was
also reuniting with my parents,whom I hadn't seen for five
entire years. I mean, back then,we didn't have face time, didn't
even have a landline where mygrandparents lived. It was sort
of that kind of situation. Andso to see my parents for the
(06:24):
very first time in five yearswas kind of mind blowing. Yeah,
Unknown (06:29):
you'd be introduced someone new. Here's your mom and
dad, right,
Jenny Woo (06:33):
exactly. And my grandparents obviously said a
lot of things about my parentsthat I believed in, but it was
sort of now my time to live withthese two people that were my
parents and finding out onlayering, uncovering who they
were.
Unknown (06:49):
And was that in California that you started
Houston, Texas, and did you findthat experience welcoming
difficult? What was that likefor you to live the first part
of your life in China and thencome to the United States, it
was
Jenny Woo (07:03):
a lot of adapting and coping and kind of dealing with
the unknown and the uncertainty.
And I think for me, I was veryoutgoing. Loved talking to
people strangers, especiallyjust having a conversation and
to be here, not even knowing thealphabet. It just felt like I
couldn't fully express myself orcommunicate. And so in some
(07:27):
ways, you know, it forced me toreally read the social cues, to
really be observant and payattention to my surroundings and
the people around me, buthonestly, it was such a slow
process, lots of patiencerequired and positive self talk.
Unknown (07:48):
Well, you brought up what I was thinking, which is,
you know, your work is inemotional intelligence and an
empathy with people, and itseems like from a very early age
that unique experience wasforcing you to develop those
kinds of skills. It'sinteresting how that early
adversity or struggle that youdealt with seems to have shaped
(08:09):
where you ended up with yourcareer.
Jenny Woo (08:11):
Yeah, absolutely. It really forced you to unpack it
and break it, breaking it down,and, you know, building empathy,
a lot of the times is that we'vebeen there. We've struggled. We
know how it feels, and so thatenables us to really connect
with the people that we'rehelping, to have that common
(08:32):
language. Yeah,
Unknown (08:33):
okay, so let's return back to your college education.
Talk to us a little bit aboutwhat you learned during that
time. Did you have mentors? Whatwas that experience like?
Jenny Woo (08:42):
So I ended up majoring in business with a
minor in information systems andan unfinished minor in
interactive media and gamedesign. This was at the
University of SouthernCalifornia, and it was a
fabulous experience, in thesense that it was eye opening,
coming from Houston to LosAngeles, a metropolitan city
(09:06):
where it's rather nonconformist, lots of different
diversity and of opinions,experiences and socio economic
status. But I ended upgraduating that year early,
because for me, I think I getreally bored just simply
learning and not applying ordoing. In college, I did juggle
(09:29):
multiple jobs. So what I learnedwas that juggling, you know,
jobs in finance, doing stocks,commodity, even life insurance,
I realized, you know, numbers,that's not quite for me. I can't
really get passionate withnumbers. And I also worked as a
personal banker, and I was,like, not really into numbers,
but really into helping peopleand talking to people and
(09:50):
clients. And I also soldsoftware, this is, like, by
phone and fax at an internship.
And I realized, you know, pro. Xnot quite interested in that
either the features and thedesign. What I was really
interested in were working withpeople. And so I ended up owning
a business, starting a businessduring one of the summers, and
(10:12):
really working with companies tosell their services to new
students coming in, and so asbrokering people and knowledge
together. And so that's when Iwas like, Okay, I really enjoy
problem solving and working withpeople around that.
Unknown (10:34):
For those who have not been in a sales position, they
may not realize how much of itis about understanding other
people and helping other peopleand being empathetic with them.
So even though that wasn't foryou, I'm assuming you learned a
lot of valuable lessons for yourbusiness that helped with that
success. Yeah,
Jenny Woo (10:55):
you know, it was all about active listening. You
can't really connect withsomeone, or get to know their
needs, or selling to them untilyou actually know what's truly
important to them, and beingable to communicate to them and
the type of language that theycan really digest and
internalize. So that was one ofthe biggest learning for me.
Unknown (11:18):
So that first business, which is, I'm going to call it,
I don't know if it's still thebusiness, but typically that,
yeah, so you're shaking yourhead, because typically the
first business doesn't work outso well, is what I've seen in my
work with entrepreneurs. So howdid that go and how did it end
up?
Jenny Woo (11:36):
So I was at USC very well to do right resourced
campus. And so here I amthinking, wow. You know, these
kids coming in, fellow students,have so much money and lots of
international students as well,but what they need was where to
spend the money, right, andwhat's best for them. And so for
(11:59):
that business, it was a way ofcreating a student guide, but in
a very interactive format. Soback then, Flash, I don't know
if you remember this, oh mygoodness, just coming out. Yeah,
we go way back. Yeah, yeah. Sofor those of you who don't know,
it's one of the very firstinteractive, almost website, app
(12:22):
design, in some sense. So mygoal was, honestly, I just
wanted to learn how to use thesoftware. And so I said, why not
learn it? Why make some money?
So I created, wanted to createthis interactive guide where I
hook up with local businesseslike Bank of America, where I
was working, at office, default,different nightclubs, tattoo
(12:44):
parlors, cryo banks andrestaurants and buildings and
residential places, so that theyhave an interactive directory of
themselves with some marketingbullets and pictures so that
incoming students, or evenexisting students, will know
where they can go procureservices and get different
(13:07):
things. And so that's what Idid.
Unknown (13:12):
And where did you make money in that process? Was that
advertising for those companies?
How did that model work?
Jenny Woo (13:18):
Exactly. It was advertising based. So I
literally went, sort of door todoor or fax by fax or call by
call with the differentbusinesses, and basically said,
Hey, we have this X number ofstudents coming in and to USC,
and you know right now Yourpresence is not being known on
campus. So do this interactivedirectory. I'm going to hand it
(13:42):
out for free during on campusorientations and tours to the
students, and this is where theywill access and you can include
discounts, everything tailoredtoward the students needs. And
so I made money with businesses,
Unknown (13:57):
okay? And what would you say is the outcome of that.
Jenny Woo (14:02):
It was profitable, but I was still a student
myself, and I was tinkering andexploring, and I knew it wasn't
going to be the thing, and so Iended up dropping it after that
year, so as one season ofstudent guide, but
Unknown (14:16):
it was valuable from that learning experience, that
that was a educational success,
Jenny Woo (14:21):
absolutely. That's when I learned that I can fake
it till I make it. And that wasalso when I learned, oh my gosh,
these people actually believeme, because it felt like very
Playhouse ish, but they believeme, and these companies actually
paid me, so it gave me a massivedose of confidence, of self
(14:42):
empowerment.
Unknown (14:42):
Oh, that's beautiful.
So how did you transition intothe training industry and this
side of emotional intelligence?
Jenny Woo (14:50):
One of the mentors, amazing that I had, was a
professor that I had TA for incollege, and when it comes to
time for. To graduate to applyfor jobs, he recommended that I
look into consulting, because heknew I liked problem solving and
working with people, and so Iended up interviewing with
(15:11):
Deloitte Consulting, and thatwas my first job. So I
interviewed for it, which ismore of a technical analyst bro
at Deloitte. But unbeknownst tome, my interviewers and staffing
managers would have reallylooked at my experiences, and
somehow they decided I was moreof a fit for human capital.
Unknown (15:35):
For those who are not familiar with it, what is human
capital? Human
Jenny Woo (15:39):
capital is where you do more learning and
development. So you are atrainer at different fortune,
500 companies, you would trainanywhere from new employees,
onboarding them, to working withseasoned employees around
leadership development or systemtraining, business training,
(16:00):
anything that is needed, as wellas building organizations, teams
and the communication planrelated to running a business.
So very different from thetechnical aspect,
Unknown (16:12):
what skills did you need to learn to be successful
than that? Because that seemslike a pretty big departure from
what you were doing, which is alittle more information systems,
a little bit more sales. How didyou adapt to that position?
Jenny Woo (16:27):
I didn't even know it existed, honestly, and I didn't
find out till my first day ofwork and but what I learned was,
you know, you needed a lot ofpeople skills. You needed,
again, that listening skill tounderstand what your clients
need, and really thatprofessionalism in engaging with
someone, in my case, as a young,20 year old, you know, someone
(16:51):
who's 30s and 40s, to be able toreally prove your credibility
and that you're authenticallyListening and you are here for
them. So that type of socialskills and people skills, again,
going back to empathy, werecritical in this role. What
Unknown (17:08):
you're saying is something that I can really
relate to. Because when Istarted my career and I was
working with entrepreneurs, Ialready kind of had a baby face,
so I was, you know, 23 and Ilook like I was 15, and I
started coaching entrepreneurswho were in their 40s and 50s.
(17:31):
For me, the confidence that Igained was relying on someone
else's credibility and someoneelse's material. How did you
develop the confidence in thatsetting to consult people who
were older than you and may havethought, why is this young
person trying to tell me what todo? Yeah,
Jenny Woo (17:51):
absolutely. I certainly relied on the brand of
Deloitte, right? It wasabsolutely filtered, but yet, at
the same time, I felt pressuredto represent Deloitte at a
positive light. Because, youknow, internally, we have the
stroke saying, you know, ifyou're a new consultant, don't
read consulting for dummies bookin front of your client, right?
(18:14):
So all those career limitingmoves, those landmines that you
had to watch out for. So Irelied honestly in just really
listening and acting mature,right, instead of your demeanor,
in some sense, and also yourresults right at the end of the
(18:35):
day, it's also what you createand what you recommend.
Unknown (18:38):
Okay, so this is a great place for us to pause and
dive into a principle thatyou've already brought up, and a
principle that I'm sure youteach with all of your work on
emotional intelligence, which islistening. And the reason why I
want to emphasize that, and haveyou kind of teach us a little
bit is a lot of times peoplethink that it's about me showing
(18:59):
someone else that I know whatI'm doing, I have the knowledge
to help you. And in fact, inconsulting and coaching and on a
lot of things, it's not aboutwhat you know, it's about your
ability to listen to the otherperson, share what they know,
and then help them make gooddecisions based on that. So
could you talk to us a littlebit about how someone could do a
(19:21):
better job of listening.
Jenny Woo (19:22):
So listening is really about getting curious of
the other person, right? It'snot about simply listening so
you can respond, and you'recrafting your answer, trying to
show off while the otherperson's listening talking,
you're absolutely listening, andit's you're not just listening
to what they're saying, butyou're also listening to what
(19:43):
they're not saying, and one ofthe fundamental important thing
to also keep in mind is leavethe judgment aside. We have
biases assumptions, so we needto really check how we're
internally responding to. Peoplewhile we're listening. I think
it's really important to be aclean slate and listen to
(20:06):
understand instead of listeningto judge. And I
Unknown (20:10):
would add to that, it puts people at ease, but they, I
believe, perceive you to be moreintelligent when you actually
don't say quite as much yousaid, you know, listen to what
they're not saying. But also, Iwould say paying attention to
what you don't need to say, andinstead allow it to breathe and
(20:31):
allow someone else to say it,and then they go, man, Jenny's
really smart. Dave is reallysmart. Well, actually, no, I
just kind of was quiet and Iallowed you to express your
intelligence, rather than metrying to fill in everything
that you were saying
Jenny Woo (20:48):
exactly. And you know that poignant pause, right?
Sometimes you if you just giveit a little bit of a pause and
be comfortable with that, theperson will keep going and
perhaps reveal something thatthey weren't actually intending
to reveal, and it gives thepsychological safety right, the
space to allow the person tocarry on and to sort of self
(21:12):
reflect and synthesize whatthey're saying themselves in the
process.
Unknown (21:17):
Yeah, that's such a great principle. Okay, so you
had a lot of different thingsyou said in the beginning when
you were a kid. You had lots ofdifferent things that you're
interested in. Your career hasnot been a straight line, right?
Lots of different experiencesthat you've had. I would love
first of all to have you talkgenerally about that, like, why
(21:40):
did you do that? How do you feelabout that? And then maybe share
one specific job that you hadthat influences what you do
today.
Jenny Woo (21:49):
It seems to be all over the place, but there
certainly is a common thread ofworking with people, people
development. But one thing thathas really worked for me, that
I've learned along the way,again, that common denominator
is you can create your ownopportunities. And by
opportunities I mean somethingthat's even unimaginable. So one
(22:14):
example is while I was atDeloitte, I ended up getting a
little bit bored, and thetypical path for a consultant is
to go to business school. And sothat's sort of the point where I
was thinking, Oh, maybe it'stime to move on. Yet I still
needed to make a living whileapplying to grad school. And so
what I ended up doing, which issort of far off, is, you know,
(22:38):
at the time, I really enjoyedthis coaching people, but not
just professionally, but alsopersonally, and that mind body
connection, so I didn't knowit's possible, but I was just
kind of having fun andexploring. And so I worked out
at, say, 24 hour finish the gym,and I saw these fitness
trainers, and I was like, thatlooked like a fun job, and I bet
(23:01):
there's some transferable skillsI can use to be able to do the
same thing, but I need to learnthe skills of a fitness trainer,
right? The basics. And so Iended up getting a job, and I
got the job as a fitnesstrainer, and they paid for me to
get certified. And so you cantransfer and make these
opportunities, and there werealso, when I say the impossible,
(23:24):
the unimaginable, what I meanwas that when I decided to leave
Deloitte, my client was Chevron,and part of being in an
established consulting firm isthe non compete cloth. You
cannot work for the same firm,and you know, you have to move
on, but my clients at Chevronreally enjoyed my work and my
(23:46):
contribution, and so what hadhappened, again, unbeknownst to
me, was that they ended upmaking a deal with Deloitte,
with the partners, so that theyended up hiring me directly
After as a contractor, whichyou're not supposed to do, but
somehow it ended up being ongood terms, and I was ended up
(24:07):
charging the same billable ratethat Deloitte was charging on
behalf of me, but now it's itwas all going into my own
pocket. So that was eye opening.
And I don't want to say it wasjust kind of materialized,
right? Obviously, there will belots of hard work involved, and
you would plant some seeds, andobviously results, again, speak
louder, right? So I think it'sthat knowing that process and
(24:31):
putting in the hard work andknowing where you can broaden
the hard work to that made thedifference. The
Unknown (24:40):
phrase that comes to mind that I love is Chance
favors the prepared, and theseopportunities came about because
you were doing great work,because you were working so
hard, and then something newhappened. I mean, that's what
happened with me, with withLinkedIn learning. I've now been
with them for close to 15 years,but that. When that opportunity
(25:01):
first came in 2010 I wasn't evenaware of something like being an
online educator, but the workthat I did in coaching others
and consulting others, and thework that I did in writing a
book set me up for thatopportunity. So when it came was
like, oh, it just happened.
Well, no, I did the work and youdid the work to put yourself in
(25:21):
that place so that when theopportunity came, you were able
to seize it absolutely.
Jenny Woo (25:27):
Understanding those building blocks, right, and
having a general vision of whereyou're trying to go is
important. Yeah,
Unknown (25:36):
what was something that did not work during that time,
what was a failure that you had,that you learned from? Yeah,
Jenny Woo (25:46):
I hate calling things failure, because everybody makes
mistakes, and it has such anegative connotation. I think we
learn as long as we learnsomething, it's part of the
process. But to answer yourquestion, right here, I am
helping people to learn, bepoised, be better, leaders,
human beings. And yet, you know,it was eye opening when I became
(26:11):
a mom, and here I am at home,not composed, crazy, crazy and
being so stressed out, going, Ohmy gosh. I'm supposed to keep
these human beings alive. And bythe way, I had one and two, very
shortly, twins. So I had three,under three, all in diapers.
Dave Crenshaw (26:29):
Oh my goodness.
So
Jenny Woo (26:31):
it was Yeah, exactly so not quite failure, but it was
humbling, and seeing myself inthis light and going, Who am I
anymore? Do I know this personand what am I supposed to do? So
it entirely flipped my lifeupside down. And in fact, I
ended up changing career,leaving jobs, and, you know, all
(26:52):
that good stuff that I can talkabout,
Unknown (26:54):
yeah, well, please do talk about that, because I think
a lot of people experience thosetransitional moments like that,
where maybe they become aparent, or something changes
with their health, whatever itis. So I would love for you to
talk about how you came to thedecision that, yes, I need to
change my career because of thischange in circumstance.
Jenny Woo (27:14):
So my twins were preemies, one was for less than
three pounds, and the other onecouldn't breathe on his own. So
it was not, yeah, so it was,it's very scary, right? When
it's always health related, andit was not a smooth journey. And
so I think the combination ofneeding to take care of my kids
(27:37):
and also, to be very honest withyou, Dave, I didn't have the
most ideal childhood, so part ofme is very much really wanting
to be that parent that I didn'thave to have that childhood and
give that to my kids. And socoupled with all of those, I
(27:57):
decided, you know, it was reallyhard to stay engaged at work.
And at the time, I was in aleadership rotational program at
Cisco Systems in the in SiliconValley, and it was, you know,
stressful, high expectation,high visibility job, and I just
felt like I couldn't give it myall in terms of employee
(28:17):
engagement. And so that gave methe difficult decision to leave
the job, and so I left, focusedmy time with the kids. Did some
contracting on my own fortraining, leadership
development, but really it wasboth of my kids, but I have to
say it was from that experiencethat I also again, learned some
(28:40):
of the unimaginable, or thepossibilities are much wider
than I thought. And so I endedup starting a successful Etsy
business, oh, and then later onbecoming an educator, and got
educated at Harvard myself anddoing what I'm doing now.
Unknown (28:58):
Okay, I want to talk about Harvard, but first of all,
that's just really curious. AnEtsy business. What were you
selling in the Etsy business?
Jenny Woo (29:06):
Yeah, lots of things.
I always liked. Do it yourself.
DIY did that for my wedding. Didthat for a kid's birthdays. And
so at the time, Photo Boothprops were just coming out. So I
made Photo Booth props, themustaches, the eyeglasses, the
Tierra, all you can think of forweddings and kids, birthdays and
(29:27):
kids, banners and honestly,Dave, these were all just came
out of my own creation for myown parties. And it was really
it just took a friend who said,Hey, Jenny, you know, people
actually buy these things onEtsy. And my response was,
what's Etsy? Yeah, right, right.
And so you just get curious lookinto it, and that's how it
(29:49):
happened. Would
Unknown (29:52):
you consider that like a side hustle, a side hobby, or
were you actually trying to turnit into a full business when you
did that? Yeah.
Jenny Woo (30:00):
It was definitely a side hustle. My priority were
still my kids, but I ended upengaging with the other fellow
parents, moms, and they workedfor me, and we ended up working
on some high celebrity weddingevents and misbuts and things
around that.
Unknown (30:16):
And if you're comfortable with it, I'd be
curious to know a little bitabout what the what the
conversations were like, whatthe decision making process was
like with your husband at thattime, right? Because there's a
lot of changes that arehappening, and you're
experimenting with a fewdifferent career paths. How did
you two come together and comeup with a plan together to make
(30:39):
it work?
Jenny Woo (30:40):
There are lots of conversations to be had, because
I've had a lot of twists andturns, but I have to say, having
a supportive partner who alsolistens is incredibly important,
and he is one. And in myyouthful days, I definitely I
was, you know, headstrong,stubborn, you know, have my
(31:02):
ways, and sometimes I also hadsort of like a victimized
outlook, in some sense, becausebeing a mom and being a mom of
three and preemies were reallyhard, and I honestly had my
resentful moments. Because forme, I think the initial
conversation of leaving my jobwas really partially like we
need to take care of the kidsand economically and make more
(31:25):
sense that I take care of three.
But for me, I was feeling also abit resentful and just mourning
over my identity in the businessworld, because I got my MBA from
Berkeley, you know, was on thistrack and leadership
development, but I had to leavedespite being partly, you know,
my choice, really. And so he wasthere not only to support my
(31:46):
decision, but to help meunderstand what I had to offer
and my opportunities. So hewould say, you know, I'm on your
team. I'm your biggestcheerleader. And that was one of
the thing that really just savedus on the same page. What a
Unknown (32:05):
wonderful thing to say and be for someone else. That's
fantastic. And I want to say toothat, do you have to have a
partner to be successful? No,but it does seem like that is a
bit of a pattern of the peoplethat I interviewed that they
have someone in their life whois highly supportive, like that,
(32:28):
it gives them a reservoir of ofstrength that they can depend
on. It sounds like that was thathas been certainly a factor in
your success.
Jenny Woo (32:36):
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, this ability to divide
and conquer. You don't needsomeone who's doing exactly what
you're doing in order tounderstand you. In fact, he's
sort of a bit of an opposite inthat sense. But you just need
the understanding, the empathyfor each other, right? And being
on the same team together,
Unknown (32:58):
that's wonderful. So Okay, let's talk about Harvard.
How did that come about? Whatwere you planning on studying
there? What did you study there?
Jenny Woo (33:05):
Harvard was something that really came about after I
had been a Montessori schooldirector at the kids, my kids'
schools. And you know, I neverthought of myself being a
teacher for little kids. Butyet, being in that context, I
realized you also work with bigkids, which are the parents, the
(33:27):
adults who throw just as manytantrums, if not more. That
Dave Crenshaw (33:32):
is sadly true.
Yes.
Jenny Woo (33:34):
So I was like, hmm, that I began to think, Well, why
can't they teach these emotionalintelligence, human decent,
empathy skills, much earlier on,so that I don't have to deal
with adults that we see today.
And Dave, you know, working incompanies, right? Coaching
leaders to be able to be goodmanagers, not the toxic
(33:57):
workplace, sort of thatenvironment, right? So those all
came into my decision to studyat Harvard, and this was at the
School of Education with aspecial focus in developmental
cognitive neuroscience, becauseI really wanted to understand,
what does the science say interms of how we learn, how we
(34:19):
think and how we act,
Unknown (34:24):
and what did you gain from that education in
particular to help with that?
Jenny Woo (34:32):
You know, a lot of the times when you go to school,
especially being older, I thinkit's not just what you learn
inside the classrooms, butreally outside the classrooms,
the informal conversations, theobservations, and for me, then,
as a 35 year old, a rather nontraditional person going into
graduate school master'sprogram, I was not just there to
(34:56):
really learn from theprofessors, but I was there to
observe what kind of. Peoplewere successful enough to go to
Harvard, so I very much observedmy colleagues, the fellow
students, and that is where Ilearned, you know, this
importance of as a child, havingthese supportive relationships,
(35:17):
whether it's a teacher, youknow, a parent, or a relative
that really makes so muchdifference, and having those
incredibly importantconversations, not just learning
to learn, but conversationsabout life, life lessons,
experiences that were important.
And so those are the things thatreally inspired me to create,
(35:38):
the cards, the products that Ihave today. And, you know, it's
funny, in the beginning, I saidit's really hard to get
passionate about products, andironically, I'm doing products,
but my mission was really todistill, and almost, yeah, I
used the word smuggle To behonest, because I'm the first
(35:58):
one and my family to graduatecollege, and so to go to Harvard
was beyond my dreams, and so Iwanted to smuggle out all these
amazing knowledge research andthese informal lessons
conversations I was having inand outside of the classrooms,
so that everyone can understand,learn, apply and enjoy, as
(36:20):
accessible as it can be.
Unknown (36:24):
What's an interesting word, smuggle. Does it seem like
it's protected knowledge? Like,what is it about that where you
felt like, Oh, I'm getting awaywith something, or I'm taking
something that other peopledon't know? What caused that
mindset. It's
Jenny Woo (36:42):
two folds. It's actually the institution, but
also my own perception ofmyself. So academia, especially
within the ivory tower, there isa sense of prestige meritocracy,
right? You have to get in to getaccess to this information, and
that's what today'sunfortunately, college
(37:03):
admissions is all about thiscraze, right? So smuggling in
that sense is, well, I'msneaking all this out of the
ivory tower of research ofhigher education, and in my
view, I'm creating it in a waythat the average Joe or Jenny
down the street doesn't matterif you're a teenager, you've
(37:25):
never gone to college, neverintend to that's perfectly fine
that you can apply, becauseapplication is the most
important thing to me. So that'sone fold. But the second one is,
you know, to be honest, I'vealways had this imposter
syndrome. You know, maybe it'scarried over of being the
immigrant, being the one who'salways on the outside, not quite
(37:47):
trying to, you know, belong andfit in, and understand the
language, the culture, and youknow, all that resourceful
things that you're supposed toknow. And so for me, it's also
like sometimes, you know, to behonest, I do question like, did
I earn it enough? So thatprobably also, is also why I use
(38:08):
the word smuggle. Yeah,
Unknown (38:09):
that's really interesting. I can relate to
that concept. The way that Ithink of it is one foot in, one
foot out, meaning I'm not fullyindoctrinated in something. I
can appreciate it, but I canlook at it say, what do people
need? So for example, like withmy first book, The Myth of
Multitasking, my job was not tobe the expert. My job was to be
(38:32):
the evangelist. Someone else isthe expert. They've already done
the studies, they've done theresearch. But the question is,
how do we get people to changebehavior. Use the Word
application, right? That's thequestion. How do we take all
this wonderful research andknowledge that other people are
doing and actually get humanbeings to act on that knowledge?
So I think you and I are kindredspirits in that
Jenny Woo (38:57):
respect. Yeah, absolutely, Dave. I love that
briefly
Unknown (39:01):
talk about what is the value of a Harvard education
like in your career, that's apretty heady name to have
associated with you. Do you feelthat that has made a significant
difference? Do you feel here'sthe big question people wonder.
Do you feel like it was worthit, like you're getting the ROI
(39:23):
back from that?
Jenny Woo (39:25):
Honestly, it's how you make it worth it for you.
And in some ways, in the case ofHarvard, right this huge,
internationally, well knownbrand, I hate to say it, it's
also how you milk it. So how doyou use and leverage this brand?
And it was until Harvard that Irealized that, you know, I
(39:49):
should own it, because I'veearned it. And again, going with
that imposter syndrome, I'vealways felt like, you know, I
already have had a master.
Degree from Berkeley beforethen, you know, and some
certifications, but I alwaysfelt like I shouldn't brag,
otherwise, in some ways, I'm asellout to my upbringing, you
(40:09):
know. And I've always beentaught to be very modest and
humble, and so having attendedHarvard was actually the first
time where I realized, you knowwhat, I did it, and I should
celebrate it instead of hidingit, which is a tendency I like
to do. Because, honestly, I likepeople to just see me for who I
(40:33):
am. I don't like to leverage.
Again, we talked about dependingon something, right, depending
on the brand. But yet, the cruelthing is that in the business
world and the entrepreneurworld, you need these things to
give you credibility, toautomatically help people filter
out who they're talking to andwhy they're talking and your
(40:56):
potential in some way, right?
And so for me to answer your bigquestion, it absolutely was
worth it 1000 times, and it hasreally done a significant impact
on my life, partly because Ileverage it, and partly because
of the brand itself and thenetwork. Well,
Unknown (41:15):
it's also the nature of what you're doing. You are a
subject matter expert, and anexpert has expertise, and so to
be able to tie yourself to, asyou mentioned, an
internationally recognized brandin college just adds more
credibility to your expertise.
So I think that's brilliant, andI love your response to that.
Talk to me now about what yourdays are like what is a daily
(41:40):
life in someone who is trying toreach people and help them learn
greater emotional intelligence.
Jenny Woo (41:49):
Honestly, my day first is really a mother, again,
still that mother of three, butnow there are three middle
schoolers. And you know how itis, Dave, just what you thought
you you're done with my onemilestone. You have the
routines, something else comesup. So we are at a new school
and a new city, so my days arereally open to, you know, what
(42:14):
things might come up, and reallyadapting, adjusting to this new
environment alongside my kids,but really, you know, I created
this business so that I can havefreedom financially, but also
from a time perspective. And soI honestly, right now I'm really
(42:34):
treating my business again likea side hustle, so that enables
me to do what is needed and whatis fun, right? The extra
curriculars, the traveling andall the good stuff. And that's
by intentionality. And you know,this really came about about two
years ago, because I had beenrunning the business since 2018
(42:55):
the year I graduated Harvard,but I continued on to earn a
PhD. So I have been a student, aparent student, for a long time,
and so it was until two yearsafter
Unknown (43:08):
there's a lot of stuff that's going on. So as a time
management expert, I look atthis and I go, Okay, what's
going on with the math here?
Right? 168 hours. How's shespending those in the week? So
how do you wrangle all of thosedifferent things that are going
on?
Jenny Woo (43:29):
You know, honestly, it's about working smart, and
you're not chasing perfection.
You need to understand yourpriority. And for me, the
hardest portion was really beingthe student parent, and so how I
split my time was really beforekids got up, I did some work,
but it was really prioritizingwhat on, what needed to be done,
(43:52):
and also while kids were inschool, as well as in the
Evening. So obviously, you know,I traded watching TV to getting
stuff done, but at the same timefor me as a parent, I was really
adamant about being there for mykids, right, making the
concerts, the talent shows, theperformances, and having sort of
(44:14):
those golden hour to three hoursto interact with them, to
understand how their days went.
And
Unknown (44:25):
are you, I'm assuming, you're protecting those times,
for example, like you're notallowing yourself to be
interrupted with text messagesand emails and that sort of
thing while you're focused onfamily activities.
Jenny Woo (44:39):
You know that is my goal. I can't say 100% I'm
perfect in that. And in fact, Iwas just speaking on this term
phubbing. Right? For those ofyou who don't know, phobing is
when you are browsing yourphone, whether it's for work or
for leisure, while someone elseis next to you, talking to you.
I think we're all guilty ofthat, right? So. I do my best to
(45:01):
not. Fub, well, I am spendingquality time with my kids. And
yes, you are correct even now.
You know, working wise, I tellpeople, you know, I can be
available between the hours of
nine or 10am to to 2 (45:13):
30pm those are really my golden working
hours. Anytime after that, Iprefer not to work.
Unknown (45:21):
Yeah, that's great. I so I actually do an exercise
Jenny on my keynote speeches,where I have someone Fub on
someone else. We have one personlisten the first time someone
talks about something they'repassionate about for like, 30
seconds. Oh, I love the sport,or whatever it is, and then they
switch roles, and the otherperson fubs, while the person is
(45:43):
talking to them. And I ask, howdoes that make you feel? And
everyone uses some phrase theform of the word unimportant.
They feel less valuable becausesomeone is doing that. So
speaking of EQ, that's a reallyimportant thing for us to be
aware of. And in fact, let's,let's use this. We do have to
eventually wrap up here. This isa fantastic conversation. Could
(46:05):
you share with us something thatsomeone would learn in one of
your classes or in one of yourbrilliant games, your card deck?
Share a principle with us,please, of how to have more
emotional intelligence with thepeople around us. One
Jenny Woo (46:20):
thing I say is we do emotional intelligence because
we want to know how to makeemotions work for us and not
against us. We've all had theseincidents where we blurted out
or done something that we laterregret, and so one thing to know
is that no one is perfect. It'snot like a subject that you ace
(46:41):
it and you move on. It's acontinuous process, and it's
context specific. So thefundamental things we need to do
is to build our self awareness.
And by that, I mean to reallytake some time during your day,
whether it's five minutes, 10minutes, to self reflect. What
are some of the emotions you'reexperiencing, and how are those
emotions causing you to thinkthe stuff that you might say to
(47:04):
yourself, are those positive ornegative? Do you see things as a
threat or as a challenge? Andhow is it causing you to take
some actions? For example, areyou avoiding something? Avoiding
doing something because you'reafraid, right or not sure? Or
are you launching into it? Maybebecause you're rather impulsive.
(47:27):
So it really starts with thoselittle sprinkles of self check
to build your self awareness,and then from there, you
understand how to regulate yourbehaviors, emotions, and how to
do the same with other people.
Yeah,
Unknown (47:46):
the way that I'm reinterpreting that is almost
view yourself like you're apassenger, like you're looking
at and saying, What is this?
What is this person? Jenny,doing? Why is Dave running away
from this? And if you can be alittle bit more objective about
yourself. You can see thosepatterns easier. Is that a
proper way to look at it?
Jenny Woo (48:06):
Great. Summary, be that fly on the wall and observe
yourself.
Unknown (48:10):
Yeah. Well, this is fantastic, Jenny. I've really
enjoyed getting to know you. Soat the end of every episode,
what I do is, because I'm a fanof application like you, I like
to help the listener findsomething they can do, something
they can do today or this week,so that they actually take
(48:31):
action on our conversation, notjust be inspired by it. So what
I'm going to do is I'm going tosummarize three actions that
stood out to me, and then I'dlike you to suggest one
additional one at the end. Doesthat sound good? Sounds great.
Okay, so the first one thatwe've identified throughout your
story and throughout yourjourney is being willing to
(48:54):
experiment, being willing to trylots of different things, even
if you don't know how it's goingto turn out. In the end, you
were confident in starting thatexperiment of having the
business in college, and thenyou've you experimented with
Etsy, and you experimented withall these different job
(49:14):
opportunities that you've had,educational opportunities like
Harvard. All of it is useful ifyou do your best. And Jenny
created lots of opportunitiesfor herself because of her
willingness to try differentthings. So I would ask someone
listening to this to considerwhat's something that maybe I'm
(49:34):
afraid to try and maybe justexperiment with it. It's okay if
it doesn't work out the way youintended, it can still open
doors in the future. The secondone is the value of listening.
And Jenny said, listen to whatthey are not saying and leave
the judgment aside no matterwhat you're trying to
accomplish, whether it's grow inyour career, make a sale or
(49:59):
build a relationship. With yourpartner, listen. Just pause and
leave room for people and spendtime listening to them. You
cannot go wrong. You will alwaysbenefit from taking that time to
listen to others. And then thelast one is just a general
example from Jenny's story. Isthe value of education. Jenny
(50:22):
has always been learningthroughout her life, she's a
sponge for knowledge, and Ithink that's something we all
can do a little bit more with.
You don't have to go to Harvardto do it. You don't even
necessarily have to go back tocollege, but you can carve aside
time in your week. For example,you could take courses on
LinkedIn learning. And everytime you devote time to gaining
(50:44):
education, it's always time wellspent. So create a schedule for
yourself to do just a little bitmore with that. Jenny, what's an
action that you would suggestfrom this conversation? Yeah,
Jenny Woo (50:58):
well said. Dave, so I would combine actually your
number two and three, you said,listening to others in
education. And I would say,also, listen to yourself and
learn from yourself in terms ofwhat is it that you really want
to do. And by listening, I mean,give yourself the time to really
think this is really is anenvironment where I see myself
(51:20):
thriving. Do I really have thatmuch energy in my body when I
think about doing somethingright? Because a lot of the
times these days, I see people,especially emotional
intelligence. Standpoint, isthat we have this sense of FOMO,
right? We don't want to miss outon the next biggest thing, or,
you know, we have that shinyobject syndrome of, we need to
(51:41):
get into this, because this iswhere the market is going. Yes,
but are you listening toyourself in terms of, is that
really what you're interestedin, what you really want to do?
So take the time to listen alsoto yourself.
Unknown (51:55):
Yeah, that's fantastic.
Thank you for that, Jenny, I'vereally enjoyed our conversation.
You have such a fascinatingcareer in life. If someone wants
to continue to follow you andlearn from you, where is the
best place for them to go?
Jenny Woo (52:08):
LinkedIn is the best place just look up Jenny Wu or
you can find me on my website,which is mind brain emotion.com,
same with Instagram and YouTubeat mind brain emotion.
Unknown (52:21):
Mind brain emotion.
Jenny, it's been a real pleasureto get to know you. Thank you so
much for sharing some of yourtime generously with us. Well,
thank you for having me, Dave,and thank you everyone for
listening. Remember, it's notjust about the knowledge that
you received or how you wereinspired. It's about the action
that you take. So do one thingthis week, from what you heard
(52:41):
in this interview, and you'llmake Jenny's success story a
part of your success story.
Thanks for listening.
Darci Crenshaw (52:53):
You've been listening to the Dave Crenshaw
Success Show, hosted by my dad,Dave Crenshaw, and produced by
invaluable incorporated researchand assistant production by
Victoria Bidez, Sound Editing byNikic Wright, voiceover by me
Darci Crenshaw, and the music isby Ryan Brady via Pon five
(53:13):
licensing, please subscribe tothe Dave Crenshaw success show
on Apple podcasts, Spotify,wherever you like to get your
podcast. If you have asuggestion for someone my dad
might like to interview, pleasesend it to guests at Dave
crenshaw.com and please don'tforget to leave us a five star
review. See you next time you.
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