November 20, 2024 • 43 mins
Lori Van Dusen, a renowned financial advisor and CEO of LvW Advisors, shares her journey from aspiring opera singer to top financial advisor. Lori emphasizes the importance of pattern recognition and resilience from her musical background. She discusses the challenges of navigating a male-dominated industry, advocating for early mentorship, and the value of client-centric advice. Lori's book, Running with Grace, stemmed from personal loss and aims to inspire through storytelling. She highlights the need for succession planning in finance and the power of learning from failures. Listen to her story and choose which action will best guide you to your success.
ACTION PRINCIPLES
1. Exposure to early mentoring. Many people don't get coached or influenced about different careers as children. Yet, it can make a substantial impact on those who do. ACTION: Offer an opportunity for mentorship to a young person in your life.
2. Start a movement for change. If you see something that should change, use research and facts to create a group of supportive people to help you take action. ACTION: Create a factual presentation and share it with others you think will support your movement for change.
3. Discover your reason why. Life isn't about passing the time. Knowing the reason behind your passions can be a powerful tool. ACTION: Contemplate why you are doing what you do and write it down.
4. Embrace failure. It's only a failure if you learn nothing from it. It's always an opportunity to grow, to learn more, and to do better. ACTION: Look back at your last failure and observe what you could do differently for a better outcome.
GUEST RESOURCES
Learn more from Lori Van Dusen by following her on LinkedIn or purchasing her book, Running with Grace.
SUGGESTED LINKEDIN LEARNING COURSE
Time Management Fundamentals
Free Time Management Course
Thanks to Dave Crenshaw's partnership with Microsoft and LinkedIn Learning, you can get free access to his full course, Time Management Fundamentals, at DaveGift.com.
Dave Crenshaw develops productive leaders in Fortune 500 companies, universities, and organizations of every size. He has appeared in Time magazine, USA Today, FastCompany, and the BBC News. His courses on LinkedIn Learning have been viewed tens of millions of times. His five books have been published in eight languages, the most popular of which is The Myth of Multitasking—a time management bestseller. As an author, speaker, and online instructor, Dave has transformed the lives and careers of hundreds of thousands around the world. DaveCrenshaw.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
lori van dusen (00:00):
So I wanted to be an opera singer, and you
can't really see me, but I'mfive five and 98 pounds, so I
don't really fit the bill of anopera singer and but that's what
I wanted to do.
Dave Crenshaw (00:12):
In this episode, you'll get to know Lori Van
Dusen, the graceful wealthadvisor, and you'll hear the
story of how she became NewYork's number one financial
advisor, while still maintaininga healthy work life rhythm. I'm
Dave Crenshaw, and this is mysuccess Show. Welcome back,
(00:35):
friends, to the Dave CrenshawSuccess Show. This is where I
speak to some of the mostsuccessful people I've met in my
life's journey, and I'm lookingfor universal principles of
success to help you succeed andhelp my family succeed. In case
it's your first time here andyou don't know me, I'm a best
selling author. I speak aroundthe world to Fortune 500
(00:55):
companies, and I've taughtmillions of people how to be
successful through my onlinecourses, particularly on
LinkedIn. Learning with thisshow, I wanted to create
something different. It's a bitof a legacy project that I
wanted to do to help my childrensucceed. But then I thought,
hey, you enjoy learning alongwith them as well. I interview
people who have achieved multifaceted success, so not just
(01:19):
career or financial success asimportant as those are, but also
balance and happiness and makingtime for relationships. And I'm
looking for actions that anyonecan take, that you can do right
now to become more successful.
So as you listen to today'sepisode, look for something you
can do, an action that you cantake today or this week at the
(01:42):
latest, to make my guest successstory a part of your success
story. And today's guest istruly remarkable. Lori Van Dusen
is the founder and CEO of LvWadvisors with over 30 years of
experience in the financialindustry. She's been recognized
in Barron's financial advisorHall of Fame, that is a big
(02:06):
deal, and ranked number one inNew York on Forbes best in state
Wealth Advisors list, apassionate philanthropist,
Laurie serves on several boardsand supports Urban Education and
Health Initiatives. She alsoauthored the Wall Street Journal
best seller, running with grace,a Rochester native, Lori enjoys
(02:31):
long distance running yoga andhosting large Italian meals for
family and friends. Lori, it's athrill to have you on the show
today.
lori van dusen (02:44):
Dave, thank you for having me,
Dave Crenshaw (02:45):
and I'm glad it worked. We had, we had some fun
little technical Gremlins beforewe got started, but we all got
it sorted out. We'reprofessionals, and we're ready
to go here. So first of all,where are you located today?
lori van dusen (02:58):
Today, I am in upstate New York, in Rochester.
It's beautiful. Yeah,
Dave Crenshaw (03:03):
my family, actually, we just took a trip up
there, and we loved it.
lori van dusen (03:07):
Did you really, yeah, it
Dave Crenshaw (03:08):
was a lovely place. We went there. We went to
Buffalo. Got some beef on weck.
It was great experience.
lori van dusen (03:15):
Did you go to the bills training camp? We
Dave Crenshaw (03:18):
did not go to the bills training map, but we did
get we did get wings. I'mforgetting the place Duffs. We
went to Duff
lori van dusen (03:24):
that's the place. That is the place. Yeah,
Dave Crenshaw (03:28):
as I've been hearing about your story and
preparing for this interview,I've just been amazed at the
interesting life that you'veled. So I'm going to start by
asking you the same question Iask all my guests, which is kind
of what we were asked when wewere kids, what did you want to
be when you grew up? What didyou think was your career path?
lori van dusen (03:48):
Well, when I was a teenager, I went to the
Eastman School of Music Everyday after regular school, and I
was trained by two really famousopera singers. People figured
out I had a voice when I wasabout 13, and so I wanted to be
an opera singer. And you can'treally see me, but I'm five,
(04:11):
five and 98 pounds, so I don'treally fit the bill of an opera
singer, but that's what I wantedto do. And sadly, I was told as
I entered college that by my oneprofessor, who was, she was a
legendary opera singer, that Iwas just not good enough.
(04:31):
Sopranos were dying a dozen, andI was just not good enough,
which was devastating to hear.
But that's, that's I thought. Ididn't necessarily think it had
to be, I had to be an operasinger, but I thought maybe
Broadway,
Dave Crenshaw (04:45):
yeah, and we were talking about that a little bit
before, because I also have abackground in music. I actually
was trying to be a rock star. Ihad a band, I played keys, I
wrote the songs, all that kindof stuff. And so I want to ask
you this, we don't, we don'tneed to spend a lot of time on
it, but. But there are valuablethings that you learn when
you're attempting to be amusician. What's a lesson that
(05:07):
you learn from that but you'restill applying in your very
successful career today?
lori van dusen (05:12):
Oh my gosh.
Well, you know this being amusician, it's practice,
practice, practice, discipline.
You have to wall yourself offand do it over and over and over
again until you get it right.
And so there is this resiliencyand discipline. And the other
thing that's been superimportant in my career, which
kind of struck me midway into mycareer, was that musicians see
(05:35):
things differently. We recognizepatterns and things that others
may not, and it's been a reallyvaluable gift, yeah,
Dave Crenshaw (05:46):
yeah, that's a great point. I hadn't thought
about that. But the patternrecognition, you know, you see
chord progression in a song, andyou can see the financial
progression in the markets,right? Yeah?
lori van dusen (05:58):
I mean, you think about math, music, all
those things. It's this perfectcombination that comes together.
So I think music has been Ithink it's, it's just
foundational to my own personalsuccess. But I think it's a
really important the arts aresuper important for kids. Just
broadens your brain and helpsyou solve problems differently,
think differently. I think,
Dave Crenshaw (06:19):
well, that that makes me feel good that we do
battle with our kids on aregular basis to go practice
their piano, always a little bitof a challenge. Now, your
grandfather had an influence onyou in your current career when
you were a much younger age too.
Isn't that? Isn't that correct?
It?
lori van dusen (06:37):
Is he? He was my father figure. My mom was
divorced. I'm a twin, and whenmy brother and I were six months
old, she left. My father got adivorce, and like every Italian,
good Italian, we moved in withmy grandparents, and my
grandfather was a greatinfluence on me. He's a great
(06:59):
man. Had an eighth gradeeducation, but loved the stock
market, and would show me annualreports when I was seven or
eight years old at the kitchentable, you know, over lunch on
Saturday, and asked me about,you know, what I thought about
some company that he wanted toinvest in. So he was, he was
wonderful in many ways, but thatwas probably my early influence
(07:22):
in terms of finance. I
Dave Crenshaw (07:24):
love that. I love that he didn't see anything
weird about exposing someone whois that young to something that
complex. And it's interestingbecause I created this podcast
Lori originally with the idea ofhelping my kids succeed. So I
love the message of that.
lori van dusen (07:45):
I heard you say that. I listened to several
they're great, and I heard yousay that, and I think that
that's wonderful, because earlymentoring of children, early
exposure to things, teachingthem that the world is beyond
what they can see right here issuper important. And even though
I didn't really understandanything, the fact that he
(08:08):
exposed me to annual reports andthought it was something that I
could learn, I think, changed alot of things for me. You know,
when I showed up at LehmanBrothers in 1987 I had no idea
that I was different thananybody else. I had no idea I
was gonna walk into a room fullof men, none. And I credit him
(08:28):
for that, because he just didn'tsee limits or boxes or things,
and just exposing kids toanything early changes their
lives, really, I think. Yeah.
Dave Crenshaw (08:40):
So, okay, so let's dig into that, because you
had this early experience withfinancial things, but you had
spent time trying to be asinger. So how did that
transition take place whereyou're saying, I'm going to go
from that into finance intowealth?
lori van dusen (08:59):
Yeah, it, you know, I think this is probably
true more than it's not, atleast in my life experience and
talking with people, which iskind of what I do every day too,
it's rarely a straight path. Butwhen you look back, every single
thing is connected to where youend up. And it's just my belief
system. I think I started outthinking I was going to be music
(09:23):
I did not want to be a musicteacher. I ended up not going to
the Eastman School of Music, butchoosing Ithaca College still
pursuing music. And ended up notdoing that because Ithaca
College was training teachers,and I did not want to be a music
teacher. I wanted to be aperformer. So I did what every,
(09:46):
probably most mature college 18year old people do. I just
changed my major and stayed atIthaca, and I loved it there.
And then you're going to see nopattern in this. You know,
before I graduated. I decidedthat I would get a Master of
Education, so I went to HarvardUniversity because I still
(10:06):
didn't know what I wanted to do,but I knew I loved college, and
I knew I loved kind of theexposure of education, so I went
there, and from there, I stilldidn't know what I was going to
do, and my grandfather said, whydon't you go to Xerox
Corporation? They have atraining program. So I
(10:27):
interviewed at Xerox. And Xerox,back then, was really an amazing
company. It embraced everyone.
There was a great trainingprogram. I was a young woman. I
ended up being there for about ayear or so, and the one thing I
did know early on is that Iwasn't a corporate person, and I
felt like I was raised by anentrepreneur, and he loved
(10:48):
finance, and maybe I could gotry that. So I ended up
researching all of the WallStreet firms at the time and
found that Lehman Brothers hadthe best training program. So I
interviewed there, neverthinking I was entitled to get
in, not wouldn't, would I justinterviewed, and I took all the
tests, and I probably, to theirsurprise, passed them all, and
(11:12):
they hired me. So it wasn't astraight path at all.
Dave Crenshaw (11:19):
So let's talk about that for a moment. In you
saying that it didn't feelunusual, which I think is
wonderful. Do you feel that atthat time, and maybe even now
still, women feel that isunusual when they're in that
kind of industry?
lori van dusen (11:38):
Well, I think it's changed for sure. I mean,
it's, it's definitely more of anindustry that embraces women
more. It certainly didn'tembrace women when I started
out, but again, I didn't knowthat, which was, you know,
ignorance is bliss, actually,but I still think it's a numbers
game that women aren't mentoredearly in finance, not enough
(12:01):
women. So it's surprising to me,at this stage, having done this
for so many years, that there'sstill so few percentage wise
women at top levels of finance.
And I think it's what we weretalking about earlier. I think
if you don't expose anyone earlyto something, they may think
it's off limits or not for them,and it's true of all kind of
male dominated fields. You know,if you're talking about
(12:25):
construction or engineering orfinance, women are still more
unusual than typical. And I dothink that I've tried to spend
part of my career inorganizations that mentor women
and teach women that you canhave this kind of work life
balance, that that there is sucha thing as flawed as it is, that
you can have a family, that thatactually, this part of finance
(12:48):
was a great career for somebodywho raised two boys. So I think
it's still not as represented asit should be. I think women are
great in this industry,especially on the advising side,
but I'm still very surprised.
Yeah,
Dave Crenshaw (13:05):
I think you bring up a great point, which is, and
this is for any gender, and it'salso for our children, as you
mentioned with your sons and theexperience you had with your
grandfather, we just need togive people an opportunity to
experience something, and whenyou open that door for just the
opportunity to experience thenyou go, Oh, maybe I could do
(13:26):
this. It's not that you weren'tcapable. It's just you weren't
even aware that it was an optionprior to that. So I love that
principle, yeah,
lori van dusen (13:34):
because there, there's someone that I had
dinner with recently that Ihadn't seen in a number of
years, and he was 19 when he hadan internship with me. I didn't,
I didn't remember how old hewas, but he said, you know,
look, it changed my life. It putme on a certain path. There's
another person. We had embracedcollege students and young
(13:56):
adults as interns for a longtime, and there's a lot of them
have become successful justbecause, you know, you gave them
an opportunity, you believedthey could do it. And I think
that it is daunting to doanything at a really high level,
have a family and try to manageall that. And I talk a lot about
that in the book I wrote. I alsotalk a lot about mentorship and
(14:20):
and other things that we'vetouched on. But I do think, you
know, trying to figure out howyou balance all this stuff is
really, is really hard. And Ithink women that have been
successful dispelling some ofthe it is hard, but you can do
it. And here's some lessons I'velearned is important. So
Dave Crenshaw (14:39):
going back to the book, talk to us about some of
the early adversity so you beganin this career, and you know,
you're extremely successful now,but what were some of the
obstacles that you overcame?
What were some moments that youhad to power through or learn
from to grow in your career?
lori van dusen (14:59):
There were a lot. Of them, but it was more
fighting an industry that waswrought with conflicts of
interest and I didn't understandit. You know, being a musician,
I kind of think you do thinkdifferently. Everything started
with a clean sheet of paper.
When I was in front of apotential client, I wanted to
understand them. I wanted toknow what problems they were
having. I wanted to know wheretheir current investments were,
(15:21):
what their estate plans were.
Nobody was really talking thattalk. Back then. They were just
selling products, and I wasLehman Brothers, and then
Shearson Lehman Brothers, andall the firms it became, and I
finally left before the MorganStanley merger. But I never
changed companies, and I foughta lot of battles, and a lot of
(15:41):
them were really lonely andmostly around conflicts of
interest. Like, you know, thefirm could be enriched, but the
client didn't do very well, andI just didn't also have thought
it was a dumb industry, like Ithought, Why does everybody wake
up every day and say, How am Igoing to make a living? I've got
to sell a product. And that'sthe way it was. There was no
(16:02):
financial planning to speak of.
There was nobody encouragingthat it was product sales in
terms of stocks, stocks, mutualfunds, insurance products,
whatever it was, because thesewere, were big firms. So these
huge conglomerates that, youknow, I used to, I used to joke
that they did due diligence oninvestment products for
(16:22):
distribution, you know, not, notbecause it was a good product.
They were trying to, you know,make sure that the client
received the best possibleadvice. But if it was something
that we could get a fee on andwe could distribute it, then we
did. And I wasn't part of the weI just never understood it. I
didn't it wasn't what I believedin, and so I fought it, and I
(16:44):
had fought a lot of battlesaround it, and there were a lot
of times where I thought maybe Ishould go, maybe I should leave,
maybe I should form my owncompany, but there were a
handful of like minded advisors,and we formed a unit within this
big conglomerate where we kindof did it our own way and and
(17:05):
delivered advice, which is verycommon now. You know, financial
planning, integrated advice,what everybody calls holistic
planning, that that just did notexist.
Dave Crenshaw (17:18):
Okay? So let's say that someone is in a similar
situation. They're working in acompany of whatever size, and
they feel like they're not beingheard. They feel like they've
got these ideas, they feel likethere's a better way to do it,
and yet, they're not being giventhose opportunities. They're not
being heard. What would you sayto someone in that setting,
lori van dusen (17:42):
I think resiliency is one of my key
characteristics, so I kept goingat it from different directions
and trying to find a person whowould listen to me. And I was
fortunate enough to weatherthrough different CEOs, so I
lasted longer than the CEOs, andI just, you know, I would say,
(18:06):
don't give up. Keep trying tofind others that have the same
value set that you have. In thiscase, around the client and
objectivity, there is strengthin numbers and there is strength
in not whining, but teaching andshowing people. So I gave a lot
of my work away. I would go toconferences. I would mentor
(18:29):
people and show them my work, soto speak. And after a while,
more and more advisors startedto do business the way we
thought, this group of advisorsthought was the right way, but
it took a lot of time, and ittakes patience and endurance.
And I would say, don't give up.
You will always get a no. No ispart of life. You know, doors
(18:51):
will slam on you. People will beunkind. It's just, if you really
believe in it, keep preaching itand find other people that you
can teach and share with, andpretty soon it becomes more of a
Dave Crenshaw (19:07):
movement. And as I'm listening to this, I'm
thinking about in my leadershipconsulting, there's a fear that
many people have that if theystand out, they're going to get
the wrong kind of attention ifthey try to change how things
are being done, they're going tobe viewed as a complainer. But
(19:30):
it sounds like that's not even apart of your mindset, or it
wasn't a part of your mindsetwhen you were making these
changes,
lori van dusen (19:36):
no, and it was more about if I really got my
values in the right place and mypriorities in the right place,
and they're the client.
Ultimately, someone's going tounderstand this, because what
we're trying to do is in thebest interest of the
constituents that we serve, andit took me a long time to figure
out, and it's true in politicsand. True in big educational
(19:59):
systems, it was true in finance.
There are a lot of conflicts ofinterest, and there are a lot of
layers of corruption, and peoplegetting paid the way they
shouldn't or whatever, and soyou have to figure out how to
navigate that. And I would againsay, I know this sounds maybe
overly optimistic, but in theend, I just knew that if I kept
(20:22):
the client at heart, and itwasn't about the money I would
make or myself in the center, itwas more of a servant leader
type of approach thatultimately, that would save the
day, win the day, whatever. Andit's worked. That's all I would
say. It's worked
Dave Crenshaw (20:40):
well, I think a lot of it has to do with also
how you're it sounds like youyou're winning people to your
side. You're creating, like yousaid, a movement. That's a
pretty strong word for it. But amovement requires lots of
people, not just one, and Ithink that's also part of the
problem, right? When someonesees something wrong, they're
like, I'm going to telleveryone, I'm going to make this
(21:01):
better. Doesn't work. No, it
lori van dusen (21:03):
doesn't I mean, we created organizations around
teaching financial advisors,financial planning and
sophisticated investmentstrategies and how to bring it
all together. We studied thecase study method, so we would
do case studies for these broadgroups of advisors across the
country. At one point, we werecalled a union, and we were
(21:24):
baffled by it. We're like, No,we're trying to do the right
thing. But the more and moretraction we got, it was a
movement, and it got people'sattention. And I think if you
really believe in something, andyou don't just try to jam it
down someone's throat, but youdo try to understand their side,
and you do try to understandwhere they're coming from. You
(21:45):
agree to disagree a lot. So withmanagement and top management in
some of these firms, we would alot of times, you know, just
agree to disagree, or would comemeet in the middle. And my
middle might be different thanyour middle, but we, we made
baby steps in getting people tounderstand, and pretty soon, the
Baby Steps did become amovement. So that's what I would
(22:06):
say, is that too many people getstuck in their side, whether
it's this, is it? This is theway it should be done, and
coming across that way, orhaving that, you know, approach
doesn't work, and it's reallyhow do you understand? Or I have
said to people that work here atour company a lot, just invert
(22:27):
it, you know, try to sit in aseat of the other person and see
why you're getting pushed backor why they don't understand.
And if, if you can do that andjust at least attempt it, things
change. People do move, even ifthey're incremental steps. So
Dave Crenshaw (22:44):
yeah, that's so important. Of what you just said
about sitting in the seat of theother person, often we're
thinking about what's in it forme, but what we need to think
about is what's in it for them.
How does this help the otherperson, not just me? That's a
great point. So talk to us aboutthe transition that you made
from working for a large companyto more striking out on your
(23:05):
own. What was that like?
lori van dusen (23:08):
Do you really want to know this? It's really
not. Oh, absolutely
Unknown (23:12):
not.
lori van dusen (23:13):
This is where you know, one of my lessons in
life is that I've learned themost from failing ethically. And
you know, I did really believethat there was a movement going
on, ultimately, to financialindependence, meaning, at the
time, you know, these were bankwire houses, that there would be
(23:34):
this independent financialmodel, which there now is. And
most of the growth has been inthis independent space. But back
in, you know, 2008 when Ilaughed, what was then? Smith
Barney, there was no movement. Ijust thought there was going to
be, you know, there I would itwas pretty lonely road. Pattern
Recognition, yeah, patternrecognition. But, you know,
(23:56):
another thing that I've learnedis being early in a movement is
the same as being wrong, atleast it feels that way. So I
was early. I decided, because wehad very sophisticated clients
at the time, I had a practicethat I'd grown with a desk and a
phone and a great team that wasthat was mentored, but it was
(24:18):
five and a half billion dollarsin assets, and I decided that I
couldn't really hang up theshingle, but that I could really
research and join the largest orone of the largest independent
firms as a leader in theindustry. And that's what I did.
Turned out I made a lot ofmistakes, and one was giving
(24:40):
into deal fatigue, because Iwanted to leave so badly at that
time was so you know, to yourearlier question, I was really
exhausted with fighting thebattle, and I found that I
gotten people to understand to adegree, but I still wasn't where
I wanted to be in terms of thedelivery of advice to clients,
that the quality. Quality that Ifelt they needed and that I
(25:02):
where I wanted to be. So I wasjust tired of fighting battle
and so at the time, thereweren't many large firms doing
what I wanted to do, and I gaveinto deal fatigue. I was out
lawyered. I did not recognizesome significant cultural
differences between the team Ihad built and the business I was
(25:25):
joining, just to name a few. Andso I would just say, you know,
when people say culture, it'sthis amorphous thing a lot of
times, but it's really yourvalue set. What do you really
believe? What's important toyou? If you are using example of
financial services and deliveryof advice to clients, what are
the most important things toyou? There was a mismatch, and I
(25:49):
made it. My biggest mistake wasnot recognizing how big of a
deal that was. Were
Dave Crenshaw (25:55):
there signs? Were there gut feelings that you had?
Were there little warnings thatyou just missed. Yeah,
lori van dusen (26:03):
I won't get crazily spiritual on you, but I
will say that I do think yourintuition is super important. I
think it's the window into yoursoul. And when your intuition,
when your heart and your headare at odds, you know it, and I
was at odds the evening that Isigned all the deal documents,
and I still did it. And what Iwould say to people is, if you
(26:25):
are feeling that way aboutanything, whether it's a
business transaction, it's amarriage, it's part whatever it
is, hiring someone hit the pausebutton, the world is not going
to come to an end because youhit the pause button, it doesn't
mean don't make a decision. I'ma decisive person, but if you
feel that way, there's a reason,and it may not be something that
(26:48):
you can really process right atthe moment, and that's why you
need to kind of step away. And Iwas being pressured, and I fell
for it, you know? I just said,okay, you know, it'll all be
okay once I once I get in there,once I saw these documents, was,
yeah,
Dave Crenshaw (27:06):
every week, Laurie, I send myself an email
that reminds me of some keylessons that I've learned in
life, and one of those is, do Ifeel knotted up inside? Don't do
it because I've it soundsexactly what you're saying.
Like. I've had those momentswhere I'm like, This doesn't
feel good. I'm gonna do itanyway, and then I always regret
(27:26):
it. I always like, Why did I dothat? It's not who I am. You
always
lori van dusen (27:29):
do you go, why did I do that? But hopefully we
go through life and we do lessof that, and that's kind of my
whole purpose for putting stuffon a page and publishing a book
is that I want to take mylessons that I've learned,
including some of these epicfailures, and get people to
understand they're part of life,and when you have that kind of
(27:51):
conflict, it's probably not theright time to make that
decision.
Dave Crenshaw (27:54):
Yeah, talk to us about your decision to write,
running with grace. What led tothat?
lori van dusen (28:02):
I don't know. It didn't start out as a book. It
started out as a journalingexercise to cope and heal, or
attempt to heal, after myhusband died. So I lost my
husband a little over four yearsago in a very out of pocket way,
very suddenly, and was advisedby a therapist to journal, to
(28:25):
just start journaling and kindof, you know, writing down
thoughts. And I'm a longdistance runner, I'd be out on a
run. I'd have something come tome. I'd do a voice memo on it. I
did a lot of voice to textstuff. I wrote a lot. I had a
journal by my bedside, and atone point, I kind of brought all
(28:46):
this stuff together and realizedit was a lot of things that I
learned, life, lessons, stories,and I'm a storyteller, and I
think that we can learn a lotthrough that method, and you can
also get people to understandthings through the method of
storytelling. So I looked at allthis stuff, and I'm like, I had
(29:08):
notes and journals and justthought I heard this thought,
like, this is a book. And so Ico opted my younger son, who's a
creative kind of genius. I soundlike a mother, but he is. And I
said, Could you help me withthis? I just think this is a
book, and I'm going to get it toa point where we can edit it.
(29:31):
And so I did, and we edited ittogether, and then we got to the
end of that, and I had my otherson read it, my older son, who
I'll also say is brilliant andcreative, sounds like a mother.
I'm
Dave Crenshaw (29:47):
sure he is. He
lori van dusen (29:48):
is. They had helped me through so much, and
they were going through theirown healing process over the
loss of their dad. And my olderson said, Mom, I think you
should publish this so. Then Ihired, I got serious, and I
hired a Content Editor, and Istill wasn't sure I was going to
publish it, self publish it. Andthen I heard how you published
(30:11):
your first book. I i then hireda legal team, because I felt
that, you know, there were somestories in there. It wasn't the
book is called running withgrace. It wasn't about anybody
else. It wasn't about namingnames. It was about it was about
teaching and life lessons andhow to take this stuff that had
happened in my life. I just hadthis thought, like, I'm not here
(30:34):
to mark time. There must be areason for all this. So it
shaped itself into a book, afterediting and legal reviews and
everything else. And as youknow, it's not the hardest thing
to get it out there on Amazon.
So I got it out there and then Idid my own audio because of, I
think our music background, thiswould resonate with you. I'm
(30:54):
like, Well, I'm a singer, youknow, I've been publicly
speaking my entire life. Howhard could it be to read my own
book? And people have told methat that resonates with them a
lot when the author reads theirown book. So I did that, and at
one point I also heard like,this is a book, and then this
(31:14):
isn't for you.
Dave Crenshaw (31:18):
Someone actually said that to you. This isn't for
you, like they gave you negativefeedback about the book like
that. No, it
lori van dusen (31:24):
wasn't really bad. It was more like the voices
in my head. No, the I just heardit. I just heard I heard this,
this, you know, talk about, youknow, when you have dissonance,
right, and you shouldn't, whenyou're peaceful in the center,
you should make the decision. Iwas super peaceful about it, and
then I just heard this thought,This isn't really for you
(31:45):
anymore. You're done with itlike now you should pay it
forward. And it was a prettyvulnerable thing to do in some
ways, but on the other hand,once I got it out there, it was
just felt wonderful to get itout there and get the feedback
that I got on it. You know thatit's really helped people, that
(32:05):
it's had the impact that it'shad and and I just think about
it like I do any philanthropicendeavor. I think of it as a big
philanthropic endeavor, becauseI don't know about you, but for
me, I will never replace my dayjob with being an author, but I
think it's a pretty it was apretty great experience to do it
(32:28):
and get it out there.
Dave Crenshaw (32:30):
Yeah, well, and I love too, how it sounds like it
was very helpful and healing foryour sons as well, to experience
that, talk about it, edit thatwith you. I love how you involve
them in that. And if you don'tmind, I want to ask you a
question, because one thing Ilove about your story, Lori, is
that you are your goal is tohelp other people. You want them
to learn. I can sense that fromyou. And many people have a
(32:54):
marriage right now, and theydon't have the perspective of
losing that spouse yet. What issomething that you learned from
it that you would want others toknow? Whether they're in a
marriage, they have a partner,whatever it is that key
relationship in their life, whatdo you want to tell them, having
(33:14):
gone through the loss of yourhusband like that?
lori van dusen (33:17):
Well, you know, hindsight is great, right? But
it's also really valuableteacher to look back and, you
know, in everything in life, amarriage would be one very
important example. But there area lot of examples of going back
and saying, If I could havechanged something or done
something differently, whatwould it have been? And I think
(33:38):
in my case, and I think this istrue of a lot of marriages, is
men are not as emotive as women.
They don't put words aroundthings as well. I'm making a
general statement. I apologizeto all the men who are really
good at this, but I thinksometimes, you know, in
marriages, getting a third partyinvolved and pushing through
(33:59):
things and getting the otherperson to really put words
around how they're feeling issuper important and
strengthening the relationship.
And I feel like if I would haveknown my husband was a quiet
sufferer. He was somebody whowas a wonderful father, he was
an adoring husband, but hesuffered from a lot of
(34:21):
depression and anxiety, and hedidn't have the ability it was,
to put words around it. And Ithink if I had known that, I
would have tried to get him tocounseling earlier or something.
So I do believe in marriagecounseling. I do believe in
therapy. I never had doneanything until after he died.
(34:44):
The other thing I would say isthat we all have our own way of
looking at things, and it kindof gets back to what we were
talking about earlier, tryingreally hard to invert it and
understand the other side. Andif you can't do it between you
and your spouse. US thaninvolving a third party is super
important, because communicationis the real cornerstone of all
(35:07):
intimacy in life. So that's whatI guess. I would say,
Dave Crenshaw (35:12):
that's wonderful, and I agree 100% I'm a huge
advocate for therapy, forcounseling. As someone who's
dealt with mental health issuesmyself, I count that as one of
the reasons why I've beensuccessful, not just in my
career, but with my family. So Iwould strongly encourage anyone
listening to avail themselves ofthat. And unfortunately, Laura,
(35:35):
I have to start wrapping up. Ijust want to briefly ask you,
what do you see ahead for thenext five years of your career.
You said you might have anotherbook in you. What else are you
thinking here?
lori van dusen (35:45):
Well, I think we have a in terms of my career. I
think, you know, I haveembraced, I hope that our
company is a testament to that,mentoring people and next
generations of people who cancarry on. So I'm going to
continue to do that, I'm gonnastick around as long as they
think I am not useless overhead,and as long as I can make an
(36:06):
impact in the industry, I'd liketo, you know, really kind of
focus on the higher level thingsright now. I I do that most of
the time, and this business runsreally beautifully without my
day to day. So if I can get theword out there and be more of
the face of the firm and a facein the industry, and cross over
some of the things you know thatthat are discussed in the book,
(36:29):
I'd like to get out there to abroader audience. So that was
why, is why we're talking today.
So that's what I kind of see.
But I do think there's kind ofthis crisis. May be too strong
of a word, but in our industry,there's a lot of older males
without a succession plan, and Ithink that, you know, that needs
to get fixed. So I hope thatthat's not the case here. And
(36:53):
the last thing I'll say is thereason I don't think it is, is
when Ron, my husband, died, sosuddenly, I was literally out,
out. I was out of everything,and I was out of this business
for over two years, and it ranjust as well without me, I would
say. So I think the more youknow, we can teach people how to
(37:14):
take their life's work and passit on, I think it's an important
thing. So I
Dave Crenshaw (37:20):
love it. It's interesting. I don't know if
you've thought of it this way,but you began thinking that you
were going to use a singingvoice to inspire and touch
people. You are still using yourvoice. You're just using it in a
different way to reach lots ofpeople. Yeah, that's
lori van dusen (37:37):
a beautiful way to put it. Yeah. Thank you.
Okay,
Dave Crenshaw (37:41):
so at the end of every episode, Lori, what I do
is I summarize some actionsteps, because what I want
someone listening to this to getout of it is not just to learn
and be inspired, which I'm surethey were by your story, but to
do something today or this week.
So what I'm going to do is I'mgoing to summarize three
specific actions that someonecan take today or this week. And
then I'd like you to wrap up byadding one thing that you would
(38:03):
suggest for someone, sound good.
Sounds good. So based on theinterview that we had, one thing
from the beginning was thatconcept of early mentoring of
children, or early mentoring ofpeople who are having a
different experience where theyhave not been exposed to
something like financialplanning or whatever. Think
(38:25):
about someone in your life thatyou know who might benefit from
just having the opportunity tolearn what it is that you do.
That doesn't mean that you'retrying to make them whatever
your career is. It's just thatyou're encouraging them to
consider different options. AndI think it's really important
that we do not limit others,that we let others have an
(38:47):
opportunity to be exposed to avariety of different
opportunities that might liebefore them in their life. So
consider if there's someone likethat that you can help. The next
one is if there's something thatyou want to change. We talked
about Laurie creating amovement, and how she was able
to influence the company, not bybeing one voice who was just
(39:09):
complaining about things, butinstead showing data and giving
evidence and getting otherpeople involved and creating
this group of people who had areal positive influence, don't
be a crusader. Instead, getother people to help you to make
positive change that will helpothers. And the last one, you
(39:33):
just said a phrase that kind offlew by for just a second, but I
wrote it down because I lovedit. You're not here to just mark
time. There must be a reason forwhat you're doing. And I would
just invite someone who'slistening to this to consider
what is the reason why I'm doingthis, what is the influence that
I can have on other people? Andwrite it down and think about it
(39:56):
and evolve that over time sothat you move. Way from just
feeling that I'm just markingtime, I'm just punching the
clock, to instead, I'm making adifference in people's lives. So
those are my three. Lori, what'sone that you would add to this?
lori van dusen (40:11):
Oh, that is impressive. I guess I would add
that failure and loss are partof everyone's life, and it's
what we do with it that can besuper powerful. So going back
and looking at why you failedand attempting not to do that
again can be super powerful inlife. And I think that's another
(40:34):
lesson. Maybe, yeah, absolutely,
Dave Crenshaw (40:36):
it's always an opportunity to grow to learn
more, do better. Fantastic. Sothe book is running with grace.
You can get that anywhere thatyou would get books, Amazon,
that sort of thing. And ifsomeone wants to follow you,
Lori and continue to learn fromyou, where should they go for
that? Yeah,
lori van dusen (40:53):
I mean, you can go just google me. I'm on
LinkedIn. I do have a presenceon LinkedIn. There is a Van
Dusen book. They can go to thatVan Dusen book.com yes, that van
doosenbook.com So, yeah, you canfind me on LinkedIn though.
Okay, yeah, I
Dave Crenshaw (41:12):
always encourage people to connect on LinkedIn.
Well, Lori, it's been a pleasureto get to know you and to hear
your story. I'm so glad that wewere able to have you on the
show
lori van dusen (41:22):
today. Yeah, me too, Dave, it's great to meet
you. Yeah, and
Dave Crenshaw (41:26):
thank you everyone for listening.
Remember, it's not just aboutthe knowledge that you received
today, but it's about the actionthat you take. So do something
about what you learned from Loritoday, and you'll make her
success story, a part of yoursuccess story. Thank you for
listening.
Darci Crenshaw (41:46):
You've been listening to the Dave Crenshaw
Success Show, hosted by my dad,Dave Crenshaw, and produced by
invaluable incorporated researchand assistant production by
Victoria Bidez, Sound Editing byNikic Wright, voiceover by me
Darci Crenshaw, and the music isby Ryan Brady via Pon five
(42:07):
licensing, please subscribe tothe Dave Crenshaw success show
on Apple podcasts Spotify,wherever you like to get your
podcasts. If you have asuggestion for someone my dad
might like to interview, pleasesend it to guests at Dave
crenshaw.com and please don'tforget to leave us a pleasure
view. See you next time. Bye.
So I wanted to be an opera singer, and you
can't really see me, but I'mfive five and 98 pounds, so I
don't really fit the bill of anopera singer and but that's what
I wanted to do.
Dave Crenshaw (00:12):
In this episode, you'll get to know Lori Van
Dusen, the graceful wealthadvisor, and you'll hear the
story of how she became NewYork's number one financial
advisor, while still maintaininga healthy work life rhythm. I'm
Dave Crenshaw, and this is mysuccess Show. Welcome back,
(00:35):
friends, to the Dave CrenshawSuccess Show. This is where I
speak to some of the mostsuccessful people I've met in my
life's journey, and I'm lookingfor universal principles of
success to help you succeed andhelp my family succeed. In case
it's your first time here andyou don't know me, I'm a best
selling author. I speak aroundthe world to Fortune 500
(00:55):
companies, and I've taughtmillions of people how to be
successful through my onlinecourses, particularly on
LinkedIn. Learning with thisshow, I wanted to create
something different. It's a bitof a legacy project that I
wanted to do to help my childrensucceed. But then I thought,
hey, you enjoy learning alongwith them as well. I interview
people who have achieved multifaceted success, so not just
(01:19):
career or financial success asimportant as those are, but also
balance and happiness and makingtime for relationships. And I'm
looking for actions that anyonecan take, that you can do right
now to become more successful.
So as you listen to today'sepisode, look for something you
can do, an action that you cantake today or this week at the
(01:42):
latest, to make my guest successstory a part of your success
story. And today's guest istruly remarkable. Lori Van Dusen
is the founder and CEO of LvWadvisors with over 30 years of
experience in the financialindustry. She's been recognized
in Barron's financial advisorHall of Fame, that is a big
(02:06):
deal, and ranked number one inNew York on Forbes best in state
Wealth Advisors list, apassionate philanthropist,
Laurie serves on several boardsand supports Urban Education and
Health Initiatives. She alsoauthored the Wall Street Journal
best seller, running with grace,a Rochester native, Lori enjoys
(02:31):
long distance running yoga andhosting large Italian meals for
family and friends. Lori, it's athrill to have you on the show
today.
lori van dusen (02:44):
Dave, thank you for having me,
Dave Crenshaw (02:45):
and I'm glad it worked. We had, we had some fun
little technical Gremlins beforewe got started, but we all got
it sorted out. We'reprofessionals, and we're ready
to go here. So first of all,where are you located today?
lori van dusen (02:58):
Today, I am in upstate New York, in Rochester.
It's beautiful. Yeah,
Dave Crenshaw (03:03):
my family, actually, we just took a trip up
there, and we loved it.
lori van dusen (03:07):
Did you really, yeah, it
Dave Crenshaw (03:08):
was a lovely place. We went there. We went to
Buffalo. Got some beef on weck.
It was great experience.
lori van dusen (03:15):
Did you go to the bills training camp? We
Dave Crenshaw (03:18):
did not go to the bills training map, but we did
get we did get wings. I'mforgetting the place Duffs. We
went to Duff
lori van dusen (03:24):
that's the place. That is the place. Yeah,
Dave Crenshaw (03:28):
as I've been hearing about your story and
preparing for this interview,I've just been amazed at the
interesting life that you'veled. So I'm going to start by
asking you the same question Iask all my guests, which is kind
of what we were asked when wewere kids, what did you want to
be when you grew up? What didyou think was your career path?
lori van dusen (03:48):
Well, when I was a teenager, I went to the
Eastman School of Music Everyday after regular school, and I
was trained by two really famousopera singers. People figured
out I had a voice when I wasabout 13, and so I wanted to be
an opera singer. And you can'treally see me, but I'm five,
(04:11):
five and 98 pounds, so I don'treally fit the bill of an opera
singer, but that's what I wantedto do. And sadly, I was told as
I entered college that by my oneprofessor, who was, she was a
legendary opera singer, that Iwas just not good enough.
(04:31):
Sopranos were dying a dozen, andI was just not good enough,
which was devastating to hear.
But that's, that's I thought. Ididn't necessarily think it had
to be, I had to be an operasinger, but I thought maybe
Broadway,
Dave Crenshaw (04:45):
yeah, and we were talking about that a little bit
before, because I also have abackground in music. I actually
was trying to be a rock star. Ihad a band, I played keys, I
wrote the songs, all that kindof stuff. And so I want to ask
you this, we don't, we don'tneed to spend a lot of time on
it, but. But there are valuablethings that you learn when
you're attempting to be amusician. What's a lesson that
(05:07):
you learn from that but you'restill applying in your very
successful career today?
lori van dusen (05:12):
Oh my gosh.
Well, you know this being amusician, it's practice,
practice, practice, discipline.
You have to wall yourself offand do it over and over and over
again until you get it right.
And so there is this resiliencyand discipline. And the other
thing that's been superimportant in my career, which
kind of struck me midway into mycareer, was that musicians see
(05:35):
things differently. We recognizepatterns and things that others
may not, and it's been a reallyvaluable gift, yeah,
Dave Crenshaw (05:46):
yeah, that's a great point. I hadn't thought
about that. But the patternrecognition, you know, you see
chord progression in a song, andyou can see the financial
progression in the markets,right? Yeah?
lori van dusen (05:58):
I mean, you think about math, music, all
those things. It's this perfectcombination that comes together.
So I think music has been Ithink it's, it's just
foundational to my own personalsuccess. But I think it's a
really important the arts aresuper important for kids. Just
broadens your brain and helpsyou solve problems differently,
think differently. I think,
Dave Crenshaw (06:19):
well, that that makes me feel good that we do
battle with our kids on aregular basis to go practice
their piano, always a little bitof a challenge. Now, your
grandfather had an influence onyou in your current career when
you were a much younger age too.
Isn't that? Isn't that correct?
It?
lori van dusen (06:37):
Is he? He was my father figure. My mom was
divorced. I'm a twin, and whenmy brother and I were six months
old, she left. My father got adivorce, and like every Italian,
good Italian, we moved in withmy grandparents, and my
grandfather was a greatinfluence on me. He's a great
(06:59):
man. Had an eighth gradeeducation, but loved the stock
market, and would show me annualreports when I was seven or
eight years old at the kitchentable, you know, over lunch on
Saturday, and asked me about,you know, what I thought about
some company that he wanted toinvest in. So he was, he was
wonderful in many ways, but thatwas probably my early influence
(07:22):
in terms of finance. I
Dave Crenshaw (07:24):
love that. I love that he didn't see anything
weird about exposing someone whois that young to something that
complex. And it's interestingbecause I created this podcast
Lori originally with the idea ofhelping my kids succeed. So I
love the message of that.
lori van dusen (07:45):
I heard you say that. I listened to several
they're great, and I heard yousay that, and I think that
that's wonderful, because earlymentoring of children, early
exposure to things, teachingthem that the world is beyond
what they can see right here issuper important. And even though
I didn't really understandanything, the fact that he
(08:08):
exposed me to annual reports andthought it was something that I
could learn, I think, changed alot of things for me. You know,
when I showed up at LehmanBrothers in 1987 I had no idea
that I was different thananybody else. I had no idea I
was gonna walk into a room fullof men, none. And I credit him
(08:28):
for that, because he just didn'tsee limits or boxes or things,
and just exposing kids toanything early changes their
lives, really, I think. Yeah.
Dave Crenshaw (08:40):
So, okay, so let's dig into that, because you
had this early experience withfinancial things, but you had
spent time trying to be asinger. So how did that
transition take place whereyou're saying, I'm going to go
from that into finance intowealth?
lori van dusen (08:59):
Yeah, it, you know, I think this is probably
true more than it's not, atleast in my life experience and
talking with people, which iskind of what I do every day too,
it's rarely a straight path. Butwhen you look back, every single
thing is connected to where youend up. And it's just my belief
system. I think I started outthinking I was going to be music
(09:23):
I did not want to be a musicteacher. I ended up not going to
the Eastman School of Music, butchoosing Ithaca College still
pursuing music. And ended up notdoing that because Ithaca
College was training teachers,and I did not want to be a music
teacher. I wanted to be aperformer. So I did what every,
(09:46):
probably most mature college 18year old people do. I just
changed my major and stayed atIthaca, and I loved it there.
And then you're going to see nopattern in this. You know,
before I graduated. I decidedthat I would get a Master of
Education, so I went to HarvardUniversity because I still
(10:06):
didn't know what I wanted to do,but I knew I loved college, and
I knew I loved kind of theexposure of education, so I went
there, and from there, I stilldidn't know what I was going to
do, and my grandfather said, whydon't you go to Xerox
Corporation? They have atraining program. So I
(10:27):
interviewed at Xerox. And Xerox,back then, was really an amazing
company. It embraced everyone.
There was a great trainingprogram. I was a young woman. I
ended up being there for about ayear or so, and the one thing I
did know early on is that Iwasn't a corporate person, and I
felt like I was raised by anentrepreneur, and he loved
(10:48):
finance, and maybe I could gotry that. So I ended up
researching all of the WallStreet firms at the time and
found that Lehman Brothers hadthe best training program. So I
interviewed there, neverthinking I was entitled to get
in, not wouldn't, would I justinterviewed, and I took all the
tests, and I probably, to theirsurprise, passed them all, and
(11:12):
they hired me. So it wasn't astraight path at all.
Dave Crenshaw (11:19):
So let's talk about that for a moment. In you
saying that it didn't feelunusual, which I think is
wonderful. Do you feel that atthat time, and maybe even now
still, women feel that isunusual when they're in that
kind of industry?
lori van dusen (11:38):
Well, I think it's changed for sure. I mean,
it's, it's definitely more of anindustry that embraces women
more. It certainly didn'tembrace women when I started
out, but again, I didn't knowthat, which was, you know,
ignorance is bliss, actually,but I still think it's a numbers
game that women aren't mentoredearly in finance, not enough
(12:01):
women. So it's surprising to me,at this stage, having done this
for so many years, that there'sstill so few percentage wise
women at top levels of finance.
And I think it's what we weretalking about earlier. I think
if you don't expose anyone earlyto something, they may think
it's off limits or not for them,and it's true of all kind of
male dominated fields. You know,if you're talking about
(12:25):
construction or engineering orfinance, women are still more
unusual than typical. And I dothink that I've tried to spend
part of my career inorganizations that mentor women
and teach women that you canhave this kind of work life
balance, that that there is sucha thing as flawed as it is, that
you can have a family, that thatactually, this part of finance
(12:48):
was a great career for somebodywho raised two boys. So I think
it's still not as represented asit should be. I think women are
great in this industry,especially on the advising side,
but I'm still very surprised.
Yeah,
Dave Crenshaw (13:05):
I think you bring up a great point, which is, and
this is for any gender, and it'salso for our children, as you
mentioned with your sons and theexperience you had with your
grandfather, we just need togive people an opportunity to
experience something, and whenyou open that door for just the
opportunity to experience thenyou go, Oh, maybe I could do
(13:26):
this. It's not that you weren'tcapable. It's just you weren't
even aware that it was an optionprior to that. So I love that
principle, yeah,
lori van dusen (13:34):
because there, there's someone that I had
dinner with recently that Ihadn't seen in a number of
years, and he was 19 when he hadan internship with me. I didn't,
I didn't remember how old hewas, but he said, you know,
look, it changed my life. It putme on a certain path. There's
another person. We had embracedcollege students and young
(13:56):
adults as interns for a longtime, and there's a lot of them
have become successful justbecause, you know, you gave them
an opportunity, you believedthey could do it. And I think
that it is daunting to doanything at a really high level,
have a family and try to manageall that. And I talk a lot about
that in the book I wrote. I alsotalk a lot about mentorship and
(14:20):
and other things that we'vetouched on. But I do think, you
know, trying to figure out howyou balance all this stuff is
really, is really hard. And Ithink women that have been
successful dispelling some ofthe it is hard, but you can do
it. And here's some lessons I'velearned is important. So
Dave Crenshaw (14:39):
going back to the book, talk to us about some of
the early adversity so you beganin this career, and you know,
you're extremely successful now,but what were some of the
obstacles that you overcame?
What were some moments that youhad to power through or learn
from to grow in your career?
lori van dusen (14:59):
There were a lot. Of them, but it was more
fighting an industry that waswrought with conflicts of
interest and I didn't understandit. You know, being a musician,
I kind of think you do thinkdifferently. Everything started
with a clean sheet of paper.
When I was in front of apotential client, I wanted to
understand them. I wanted toknow what problems they were
having. I wanted to know wheretheir current investments were,
(15:21):
what their estate plans were.
Nobody was really talking thattalk. Back then. They were just
selling products, and I wasLehman Brothers, and then
Shearson Lehman Brothers, andall the firms it became, and I
finally left before the MorganStanley merger. But I never
changed companies, and I foughta lot of battles, and a lot of
(15:41):
them were really lonely andmostly around conflicts of
interest. Like, you know, thefirm could be enriched, but the
client didn't do very well, andI just didn't also have thought
it was a dumb industry, like Ithought, Why does everybody wake
up every day and say, How am Igoing to make a living? I've got
to sell a product. And that'sthe way it was. There was no
(16:02):
financial planning to speak of.
There was nobody encouragingthat it was product sales in
terms of stocks, stocks, mutualfunds, insurance products,
whatever it was, because thesewere, were big firms. So these
huge conglomerates that, youknow, I used to, I used to joke
that they did due diligence oninvestment products for
(16:22):
distribution, you know, not, notbecause it was a good product.
They were trying to, you know,make sure that the client
received the best possibleadvice. But if it was something
that we could get a fee on andwe could distribute it, then we
did. And I wasn't part of the weI just never understood it. I
didn't it wasn't what I believedin, and so I fought it, and I
(16:44):
had fought a lot of battlesaround it, and there were a lot
of times where I thought maybe Ishould go, maybe I should leave,
maybe I should form my owncompany, but there were a
handful of like minded advisors,and we formed a unit within this
big conglomerate where we kindof did it our own way and and
(17:05):
delivered advice, which is verycommon now. You know, financial
planning, integrated advice,what everybody calls holistic
planning, that that just did notexist.
Dave Crenshaw (17:18):
Okay? So let's say that someone is in a similar
situation. They're working in acompany of whatever size, and
they feel like they're not beingheard. They feel like they've
got these ideas, they feel likethere's a better way to do it,
and yet, they're not being giventhose opportunities. They're not
being heard. What would you sayto someone in that setting,
lori van dusen (17:42):
I think resiliency is one of my key
characteristics, so I kept goingat it from different directions
and trying to find a person whowould listen to me. And I was
fortunate enough to weatherthrough different CEOs, so I
lasted longer than the CEOs, andI just, you know, I would say,
(18:06):
don't give up. Keep trying tofind others that have the same
value set that you have. In thiscase, around the client and
objectivity, there is strengthin numbers and there is strength
in not whining, but teaching andshowing people. So I gave a lot
of my work away. I would go toconferences. I would mentor
(18:29):
people and show them my work, soto speak. And after a while,
more and more advisors startedto do business the way we
thought, this group of advisorsthought was the right way, but
it took a lot of time, and ittakes patience and endurance.
And I would say, don't give up.
You will always get a no. No ispart of life. You know, doors
(18:51):
will slam on you. People will beunkind. It's just, if you really
believe in it, keep preaching itand find other people that you
can teach and share with, andpretty soon it becomes more of a
Dave Crenshaw (19:07):
movement. And as I'm listening to this, I'm
thinking about in my leadershipconsulting, there's a fear that
many people have that if theystand out, they're going to get
the wrong kind of attention ifthey try to change how things
are being done, they're going tobe viewed as a complainer. But
(19:30):
it sounds like that's not even apart of your mindset, or it
wasn't a part of your mindsetwhen you were making these
changes,
lori van dusen (19:36):
no, and it was more about if I really got my
values in the right place and mypriorities in the right place,
and they're the client.
Ultimately, someone's going tounderstand this, because what
we're trying to do is in thebest interest of the
constituents that we serve, andit took me a long time to figure
out, and it's true in politicsand. True in big educational
(19:59):
systems, it was true in finance.
There are a lot of conflicts ofinterest, and there are a lot of
layers of corruption, and peoplegetting paid the way they
shouldn't or whatever, and soyou have to figure out how to
navigate that. And I would againsay, I know this sounds maybe
overly optimistic, but in theend, I just knew that if I kept
(20:22):
the client at heart, and itwasn't about the money I would
make or myself in the center, itwas more of a servant leader
type of approach thatultimately, that would save the
day, win the day, whatever. Andit's worked. That's all I would
say. It's worked
Dave Crenshaw (20:40):
well, I think a lot of it has to do with also
how you're it sounds like youyou're winning people to your
side. You're creating, like yousaid, a movement. That's a
pretty strong word for it. But amovement requires lots of
people, not just one, and Ithink that's also part of the
problem, right? When someonesees something wrong, they're
like, I'm going to telleveryone, I'm going to make this
(21:01):
better. Doesn't work. No, it
lori van dusen (21:03):
doesn't I mean, we created organizations around
teaching financial advisors,financial planning and
sophisticated investmentstrategies and how to bring it
all together. We studied thecase study method, so we would
do case studies for these broadgroups of advisors across the
country. At one point, we werecalled a union, and we were
(21:24):
baffled by it. We're like, No,we're trying to do the right
thing. But the more and moretraction we got, it was a
movement, and it got people'sattention. And I think if you
really believe in something, andyou don't just try to jam it
down someone's throat, but youdo try to understand their side,
and you do try to understandwhere they're coming from. You
(21:45):
agree to disagree a lot. So withmanagement and top management in
some of these firms, we would alot of times, you know, just
agree to disagree, or would comemeet in the middle. And my
middle might be different thanyour middle, but we, we made
baby steps in getting people tounderstand, and pretty soon, the
Baby Steps did become amovement. So that's what I would
(22:06):
say, is that too many people getstuck in their side, whether
it's this, is it? This is theway it should be done, and
coming across that way, orhaving that, you know, approach
doesn't work, and it's reallyhow do you understand? Or I have
said to people that work here atour company a lot, just invert
(22:27):
it, you know, try to sit in aseat of the other person and see
why you're getting pushed backor why they don't understand.
And if, if you can do that andjust at least attempt it, things
change. People do move, even ifthey're incremental steps. So
Dave Crenshaw (22:44):
yeah, that's so important. Of what you just said
about sitting in the seat of theother person, often we're
thinking about what's in it forme, but what we need to think
about is what's in it for them.
How does this help the otherperson, not just me? That's a
great point. So talk to us aboutthe transition that you made
from working for a large companyto more striking out on your
(23:05):
own. What was that like?
lori van dusen (23:08):
Do you really want to know this? It's really
not. Oh, absolutely
Unknown (23:12):
not.
lori van dusen (23:13):
This is where you know, one of my lessons in
life is that I've learned themost from failing ethically. And
you know, I did really believethat there was a movement going
on, ultimately, to financialindependence, meaning, at the
time, you know, these were bankwire houses, that there would be
(23:34):
this independent financialmodel, which there now is. And
most of the growth has been inthis independent space. But back
in, you know, 2008 when Ilaughed, what was then? Smith
Barney, there was no movement. Ijust thought there was going to
be, you know, there I would itwas pretty lonely road. Pattern
Recognition, yeah, patternrecognition. But, you know,
(23:56):
another thing that I've learnedis being early in a movement is
the same as being wrong, atleast it feels that way. So I
was early. I decided, because wehad very sophisticated clients
at the time, I had a practicethat I'd grown with a desk and a
phone and a great team that wasthat was mentored, but it was
(24:18):
five and a half billion dollarsin assets, and I decided that I
couldn't really hang up theshingle, but that I could really
research and join the largest orone of the largest independent
firms as a leader in theindustry. And that's what I did.
Turned out I made a lot ofmistakes, and one was giving
(24:40):
into deal fatigue, because Iwanted to leave so badly at that
time was so you know, to yourearlier question, I was really
exhausted with fighting thebattle, and I found that I
gotten people to understand to adegree, but I still wasn't where
I wanted to be in terms of thedelivery of advice to clients,
that the quality. Quality that Ifelt they needed and that I
(25:02):
where I wanted to be. So I wasjust tired of fighting battle
and so at the time, thereweren't many large firms doing
what I wanted to do, and I gaveinto deal fatigue. I was out
lawyered. I did not recognizesome significant cultural
differences between the team Ihad built and the business I was
(25:25):
joining, just to name a few. Andso I would just say, you know,
when people say culture, it'sthis amorphous thing a lot of
times, but it's really yourvalue set. What do you really
believe? What's important toyou? If you are using example of
financial services and deliveryof advice to clients, what are
the most important things toyou? There was a mismatch, and I
(25:49):
made it. My biggest mistake wasnot recognizing how big of a
deal that was. Were
Dave Crenshaw (25:55):
there signs? Were there gut feelings that you had?
Were there little warnings thatyou just missed. Yeah,
lori van dusen (26:03):
I won't get crazily spiritual on you, but I
will say that I do think yourintuition is super important. I
think it's the window into yoursoul. And when your intuition,
when your heart and your headare at odds, you know it, and I
was at odds the evening that Isigned all the deal documents,
and I still did it. And what Iwould say to people is, if you
(26:25):
are feeling that way aboutanything, whether it's a
business transaction, it's amarriage, it's part whatever it
is, hiring someone hit the pausebutton, the world is not going
to come to an end because youhit the pause button, it doesn't
mean don't make a decision. I'ma decisive person, but if you
feel that way, there's a reason,and it may not be something that
(26:48):
you can really process right atthe moment, and that's why you
need to kind of step away. And Iwas being pressured, and I fell
for it, you know? I just said,okay, you know, it'll all be
okay once I once I get in there,once I saw these documents, was,
yeah,
Dave Crenshaw (27:06):
every week, Laurie, I send myself an email
that reminds me of some keylessons that I've learned in
life, and one of those is, do Ifeel knotted up inside? Don't do
it because I've it soundsexactly what you're saying.
Like. I've had those momentswhere I'm like, This doesn't
feel good. I'm gonna do itanyway, and then I always regret
(27:26):
it. I always like, Why did I dothat? It's not who I am. You
always
lori van dusen (27:29):
do you go, why did I do that? But hopefully we
go through life and we do lessof that, and that's kind of my
whole purpose for putting stuffon a page and publishing a book
is that I want to take mylessons that I've learned,
including some of these epicfailures, and get people to
understand they're part of life,and when you have that kind of
(27:51):
conflict, it's probably not theright time to make that
decision.
Dave Crenshaw (27:54):
Yeah, talk to us about your decision to write,
running with grace. What led tothat?
lori van dusen (28:02):
I don't know. It didn't start out as a book. It
started out as a journalingexercise to cope and heal, or
attempt to heal, after myhusband died. So I lost my
husband a little over four yearsago in a very out of pocket way,
very suddenly, and was advisedby a therapist to journal, to
(28:25):
just start journaling and kindof, you know, writing down
thoughts. And I'm a longdistance runner, I'd be out on a
run. I'd have something come tome. I'd do a voice memo on it. I
did a lot of voice to textstuff. I wrote a lot. I had a
journal by my bedside, and atone point, I kind of brought all
(28:46):
this stuff together and realizedit was a lot of things that I
learned, life, lessons, stories,and I'm a storyteller, and I
think that we can learn a lotthrough that method, and you can
also get people to understandthings through the method of
storytelling. So I looked at allthis stuff, and I'm like, I had
(29:08):
notes and journals and justthought I heard this thought,
like, this is a book. And so Ico opted my younger son, who's a
creative kind of genius. I soundlike a mother, but he is. And I
said, Could you help me withthis? I just think this is a
book, and I'm going to get it toa point where we can edit it.
(29:31):
And so I did, and we edited ittogether, and then we got to the
end of that, and I had my otherson read it, my older son, who
I'll also say is brilliant andcreative, sounds like a mother.
I'm
Dave Crenshaw (29:47):
sure he is. He
lori van dusen (29:48):
is. They had helped me through so much, and
they were going through theirown healing process over the
loss of their dad. And my olderson said, Mom, I think you
should publish this so. Then Ihired, I got serious, and I
hired a Content Editor, and Istill wasn't sure I was going to
publish it, self publish it. Andthen I heard how you published
(30:11):
your first book. I i then hireda legal team, because I felt
that, you know, there were somestories in there. It wasn't the
book is called running withgrace. It wasn't about anybody
else. It wasn't about namingnames. It was about it was about
teaching and life lessons andhow to take this stuff that had
happened in my life. I just hadthis thought, like, I'm not here
(30:34):
to mark time. There must be areason for all this. So it
shaped itself into a book, afterediting and legal reviews and
everything else. And as youknow, it's not the hardest thing
to get it out there on Amazon.
So I got it out there and then Idid my own audio because of, I
think our music background, thiswould resonate with you. I'm
(30:54):
like, Well, I'm a singer, youknow, I've been publicly
speaking my entire life. Howhard could it be to read my own
book? And people have told methat that resonates with them a
lot when the author reads theirown book. So I did that, and at
one point I also heard like,this is a book, and then this
(31:14):
isn't for you.
Dave Crenshaw (31:18):
Someone actually said that to you. This isn't for
you, like they gave you negativefeedback about the book like
that. No, it
lori van dusen (31:24):
wasn't really bad. It was more like the voices
in my head. No, the I just heardit. I just heard I heard this,
this, you know, talk about, youknow, when you have dissonance,
right, and you shouldn't, whenyou're peaceful in the center,
you should make the decision. Iwas super peaceful about it, and
then I just heard this thought,This isn't really for you
(31:45):
anymore. You're done with itlike now you should pay it
forward. And it was a prettyvulnerable thing to do in some
ways, but on the other hand,once I got it out there, it was
just felt wonderful to get itout there and get the feedback
that I got on it. You know thatit's really helped people, that
(32:05):
it's had the impact that it'shad and and I just think about
it like I do any philanthropicendeavor. I think of it as a big
philanthropic endeavor, becauseI don't know about you, but for
me, I will never replace my dayjob with being an author, but I
think it's a pretty it was apretty great experience to do it
(32:28):
and get it out there.
Dave Crenshaw (32:30):
Yeah, well, and I love too, how it sounds like it
was very helpful and healing foryour sons as well, to experience
that, talk about it, edit thatwith you. I love how you involve
them in that. And if you don'tmind, I want to ask you a
question, because one thing Ilove about your story, Lori, is
that you are your goal is tohelp other people. You want them
to learn. I can sense that fromyou. And many people have a
(32:54):
marriage right now, and theydon't have the perspective of
losing that spouse yet. What issomething that you learned from
it that you would want others toknow? Whether they're in a
marriage, they have a partner,whatever it is that key
relationship in their life, whatdo you want to tell them, having
(33:14):
gone through the loss of yourhusband like that?
lori van dusen (33:17):
Well, you know, hindsight is great, right? But
it's also really valuableteacher to look back and, you
know, in everything in life, amarriage would be one very
important example. But there area lot of examples of going back
and saying, If I could havechanged something or done
something differently, whatwould it have been? And I think
(33:38):
in my case, and I think this istrue of a lot of marriages, is
men are not as emotive as women.
They don't put words aroundthings as well. I'm making a
general statement. I apologizeto all the men who are really
good at this, but I thinksometimes, you know, in
marriages, getting a third partyinvolved and pushing through
(33:59):
things and getting the otherperson to really put words
around how they're feeling issuper important and
strengthening the relationship.
And I feel like if I would haveknown my husband was a quiet
sufferer. He was somebody whowas a wonderful father, he was
an adoring husband, but hesuffered from a lot of
(34:21):
depression and anxiety, and hedidn't have the ability it was,
to put words around it. And Ithink if I had known that, I
would have tried to get him tocounseling earlier or something.
So I do believe in marriagecounseling. I do believe in
therapy. I never had doneanything until after he died.
(34:44):
The other thing I would say isthat we all have our own way of
looking at things, and it kindof gets back to what we were
talking about earlier, tryingreally hard to invert it and
understand the other side. Andif you can't do it between you
and your spouse. US thaninvolving a third party is super
important, because communicationis the real cornerstone of all
(35:07):
intimacy in life. So that's whatI guess. I would say,
Dave Crenshaw (35:12):
that's wonderful, and I agree 100% I'm a huge
advocate for therapy, forcounseling. As someone who's
dealt with mental health issuesmyself, I count that as one of
the reasons why I've beensuccessful, not just in my
career, but with my family. So Iwould strongly encourage anyone
listening to avail themselves ofthat. And unfortunately, Laura,
(35:35):
I have to start wrapping up. Ijust want to briefly ask you,
what do you see ahead for thenext five years of your career.
You said you might have anotherbook in you. What else are you
thinking here?
lori van dusen (35:45):
Well, I think we have a in terms of my career. I
think, you know, I haveembraced, I hope that our
company is a testament to that,mentoring people and next
generations of people who cancarry on. So I'm going to
continue to do that, I'm gonnastick around as long as they
think I am not useless overhead,and as long as I can make an
(36:06):
impact in the industry, I'd liketo, you know, really kind of
focus on the higher level thingsright now. I I do that most of
the time, and this business runsreally beautifully without my
day to day. So if I can get theword out there and be more of
the face of the firm and a facein the industry, and cross over
some of the things you know thatthat are discussed in the book,
(36:29):
I'd like to get out there to abroader audience. So that was
why, is why we're talking today.
So that's what I kind of see.
But I do think there's kind ofthis crisis. May be too strong
of a word, but in our industry,there's a lot of older males
without a succession plan, and Ithink that, you know, that needs
to get fixed. So I hope thatthat's not the case here. And
(36:53):
the last thing I'll say is thereason I don't think it is, is
when Ron, my husband, died, sosuddenly, I was literally out,
out. I was out of everything,and I was out of this business
for over two years, and it ranjust as well without me, I would
say. So I think the more youknow, we can teach people how to
(37:14):
take their life's work and passit on, I think it's an important
thing. So I
Dave Crenshaw (37:20):
love it. It's interesting. I don't know if
you've thought of it this way,but you began thinking that you
were going to use a singingvoice to inspire and touch
people. You are still using yourvoice. You're just using it in a
different way to reach lots ofpeople. Yeah, that's
lori van dusen (37:37):
a beautiful way to put it. Yeah. Thank you.
Okay,
Dave Crenshaw (37:41):
so at the end of every episode, Lori, what I do
is I summarize some actionsteps, because what I want
someone listening to this to getout of it is not just to learn
and be inspired, which I'm surethey were by your story, but to
do something today or this week.
So what I'm going to do is I'mgoing to summarize three
specific actions that someonecan take today or this week. And
then I'd like you to wrap up byadding one thing that you would
(38:03):
suggest for someone, sound good.
Sounds good. So based on theinterview that we had, one thing
from the beginning was thatconcept of early mentoring of
children, or early mentoring ofpeople who are having a
different experience where theyhave not been exposed to
something like financialplanning or whatever. Think
(38:25):
about someone in your life thatyou know who might benefit from
just having the opportunity tolearn what it is that you do.
That doesn't mean that you'retrying to make them whatever
your career is. It's just thatyou're encouraging them to
consider different options. AndI think it's really important
that we do not limit others,that we let others have an
(38:47):
opportunity to be exposed to avariety of different
opportunities that might liebefore them in their life. So
consider if there's someone likethat that you can help. The next
one is if there's something thatyou want to change. We talked
about Laurie creating amovement, and how she was able
to influence the company, not bybeing one voice who was just
(39:09):
complaining about things, butinstead showing data and giving
evidence and getting otherpeople involved and creating
this group of people who had areal positive influence, don't
be a crusader. Instead, getother people to help you to make
positive change that will helpothers. And the last one, you
(39:33):
just said a phrase that kind offlew by for just a second, but I
wrote it down because I lovedit. You're not here to just mark
time. There must be a reason forwhat you're doing. And I would
just invite someone who'slistening to this to consider
what is the reason why I'm doingthis, what is the influence that
I can have on other people? Andwrite it down and think about it
(39:56):
and evolve that over time sothat you move. Way from just
feeling that I'm just markingtime, I'm just punching the
clock, to instead, I'm making adifference in people's lives. So
those are my three. Lori, what'sone that you would add to this?
lori van dusen (40:11):
Oh, that is impressive. I guess I would add
that failure and loss are partof everyone's life, and it's
what we do with it that can besuper powerful. So going back
and looking at why you failedand attempting not to do that
again can be super powerful inlife. And I think that's another
(40:34):
lesson. Maybe, yeah, absolutely,
Dave Crenshaw (40:36):
it's always an opportunity to grow to learn
more, do better. Fantastic. Sothe book is running with grace.
You can get that anywhere thatyou would get books, Amazon,
that sort of thing. And ifsomeone wants to follow you,
Lori and continue to learn fromyou, where should they go for
that? Yeah,
lori van dusen (40:53):
I mean, you can go just google me. I'm on
LinkedIn. I do have a presenceon LinkedIn. There is a Van
Dusen book. They can go to thatVan Dusen book.com yes, that van
doosenbook.com So, yeah, you canfind me on LinkedIn though.
Okay, yeah, I
Dave Crenshaw (41:12):
always encourage people to connect on LinkedIn.
Well, Lori, it's been a pleasureto get to know you and to hear
your story. I'm so glad that wewere able to have you on the
show
lori van dusen (41:22):
today. Yeah, me too, Dave, it's great to meet
you. Yeah, and
Dave Crenshaw (41:26):
thank you everyone for listening.
Remember, it's not just aboutthe knowledge that you received
today, but it's about the actionthat you take. So do something
about what you learned from Loritoday, and you'll make her
success story, a part of yoursuccess story. Thank you for
listening.
Darci Crenshaw (41:46):
You've been listening to the Dave Crenshaw
Success Show, hosted by my dad,Dave Crenshaw, and produced by
invaluable incorporated researchand assistant production by
Victoria Bidez, Sound Editing byNikic Wright, voiceover by me
Darci Crenshaw, and the music isby Ryan Brady via Pon five
(42:07):
licensing, please subscribe tothe Dave Crenshaw success show
on Apple podcasts Spotify,wherever you like to get your
podcasts. If you have asuggestion for someone my dad
might like to interview, pleasesend it to guests at Dave
crenshaw.com and please don'tforget to leave us a pleasure
view. See you next time. Bye.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
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The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.