The Wizard of Storytelling, Ed Greenwood - Creator of the Forgotten Realms & DND - The Dave Crenshaw Success Show

Episode Transcript
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Ed Greenwood (00:00):
Eventually, when they were looking for a new
setting for the game, for thesecond edition, Jeff Grubb cold
called me at the public library,I was working up in Canada, and
said, Do you have a complete,detailed world at home, or do
you make it up as you go along?
And I said, yes, and yes,

Dave Crenshaw (00:17):
yeah. He said, Okay, in this episode, you'll
get to know Ed Greenwood, TheWizard of storytelling, and
you'll hear the story of how aworld he created in his mind
when he was six years old becamethe foundation for the beloved
game Dungeons and Dragons. I'mDave Crenshaw, and this is my
success Show.

(00:42):
Welcome back, friends, to theDave Crenshaw Success Show. This
is where I speak to some of themost successful people I've met
in my life's journey. And I'mlooking for universal principles
of success to help both you andmy family. If you're not
familiar with me, I'm a bestselling author. I speak around
the world of Fortune 500companies, and I've taught
millions of people how to besuccessful through my online
courses, particularly my timemanagement course on LinkedIn.

(01:05):
Learning with this show, Iwanted to create something a
little different, somethinglasting, to help my family
succeed, and I thought you'denjoy learning along with them,
and speaking of my family, todayis kind of special, because
today's guest is extra special,and I knew that my daughters
would want to get to know them.
So my daughters are here with meright now in studio in Salt Lake
City. Ella, can you lean in andsay hello, hello, hello, Ella.

(01:30):
How old are you? 1515? And Ellais a prolific writer. She's
already written a novel, andshe's on her way to creating the
second so you were extra curiousto learn about our guest today,
right? And my other daughter,Darcy, is here. Darcy, lean into
the microphone, say hello, hi,and Darcy. How old are you? I'm

(01:52):
11. Yeah. And Darcy also is agreat writer. You've been
writing stories about amischievous cat and your your
teachers allowed you to sharethose stories. So both of them
wanted to be here becausetoday's guest is special as a
writer, as a world builder, manof writers who are around today.

(02:16):
He is one of the mostinfluential ones, even if you
haven't heard of him, the worldhe created is used by millions
of other people to tell theirown stories and characters,
cities, histories, entirehistories of fantasy worlds were
created by this gentleman, andthey're used in major motion

(02:37):
Pictures, in some of the world'smost popular video games. So
I'll get right to him. EdGreenwood is a Canadian fantasy
writer and the mastermind behindthe creation of the Forgotten
Realms game world. While hestarted writing about the
Forgotten Realms as a child, hiscareer began in 1979 writing
articles about the realms forDragon magazine. Eventually, he

(03:03):
sold the rights to TSR, thecreators of Dungeons and
Dragons, in 1986 today, hecontinues to write Forgotten
Realms novels, as well asnumerous articles and DND game
supplement books. When notimmersed in his writing, Ed can
be found attending conventionsand living in his farmhouse in

(03:23):
Ontario, Canada. Ed, it is trulyan honor to have you on the show
today. Thank you so much forbeing here.

Thank you for having me. Great to be here.

Yeah, I've interviewed lots of different
people with lots of differentcareer paths, because that's
sort of the goal here is to showthat there's a variety of ways
to achieve success. And I'veinterviewed CEOs of
corporations, entrepreneurs,some sports figures. No one Ed
has generated as much excitementabout the upcoming interview as

(03:57):
you. In fact, just last night, Itold my brother in law, who's in
his mid 40s, and he freaked outand was like, You're
interviewing him. I'm in thedungeons and dragons now, and he
like, sent me pictures and stufflike that. So it's really fun to
have this, this interview withyou. So I appreciate your
generosity of time

My pleasure. No problem at all. Yeah,

I'm sure you get that, because what you've
created is beloved by millionsof people. We even saw the
fruits of your creativityrecently on the big screen,
right with the Dungeons andDragons movie, which, by the
way, I saw your video about thethings they got wrong in that
movie, and I loved that videofor you to sort of expand on the

(04:41):
things that are in that and inthe background world of it.
Okay, so what I do in this Ed isI start from the very beginning,
and what I want to do is go fromthe beginning of where you had
your creative mind took off andstarted creating this world. And
that was very, very early foryou,

correct? Yes, yeah, yeah. I was a lonely kid.
My mom died when I was six. Mydad threw himself into his work.
So I was raised largely by twograndmothers and a maiden aunt,
taking it in shifts, and myrelease was to read every book

(05:19):
in my father's den. And myfather, like most people who
collected books, he built hisown bookshelves, and he crammed
them in by height to get themost books in. Wow. There was
one bookshelf that had the robeby Lloyd Douglas, a religious
novel, next to a first editionLord of the Rings in hardcover,
next to the high white forest byRalph Allen, which is a novel

(05:42):
about the Battle of the Bulge.
And I was just reading along theshelves, and there were lots of
pulp. Give one to a friend inuniform, paperbacks falling
apart. So I read everything, andI started writing because I'd
read something. And I pound upthe stairs to my dad, who
usually had, like, eminentguests, five star generals and
stuff in the room. And I'd say,Dad, Dad, this one was great.

(06:05):
Where's the next one? Oh, son,that author died in 1938 if you
want another story, you're goingto have to write it yourself.
Okay? And I go pounding backdown the stairs. And my aunt
Claire grew up on a farm inOntario, and she went through
two world wars in theDepression. You didn't buy
paper. You got your groceries inbrown paper bags. You brought

(06:30):
them home, you took out yourkitchen knife, which was a
machete, you slipped them downboth sides, and then you ironed
them the same iron you'd use onthe clothes. You ironed the
brown paper bag out flat, and soaunt Claire had set up a card
table with brown so I juststarted writing.

So you had I'm imagining this. I'm imagining
little ed on these pieces ofpaper. You had limited room to
write. So what was that initialwriting like? Clearly, you were
inspired by Lord of the Rings aspart of that, right? So what
were like the first books, orthe first illustrations, or

(07:13):
whatever it was, what did thoselook like?

Well, first of all, I'm copying the style of
writers I admire, whether it'sLord Dunsany or Robert E Howard
doing Conan or Edgar RiceBurroughs or EE doc Smith doing
Wild's face opera. I'm copyingthe style of the writer you

(07:36):
know. So you get theirvocabulary, their phrasings, the
famous introduction to Conan,no, oh Prince, that are the days
before Atlantis sank beneath thewaves. So you'd learn that
voice. And that's how I waslearning because when I when dad
said, Oh, you'll have to writeit yourself. And I went piling

(07:56):
down the stairs, I was trying towrite the next thing that
happened to those favoritecharacters, and I knew I wasn't
the real author and all thatstuff, but I wanted to sound
like the real author, or when Iread it to myself, there was no
payback. I wanted it to soundlike I found. In fact, I got in
trouble in public school becausein English class, we were asked

(08:19):
to write a story, a short story,in the style of a writer we
liked, and the teacher thought Iplagiarized it from a real PG
Woodhouse story, and sent medown to the principal's office,
and I'm sitting on the hardwooden bench, and my teacher
comes down and goes into theroom to tell the vice principal

(08:39):
why I'm there, and comes backout, and the principal comes in,
and he says, Where did you getthis? And I said, I wrote it.
And he says, Come on, where didyou get this? And it turned out
he was a woodhouse fan, and hethought I'd found a new
Woodhouse story. And when hefound out I'd written it, he
said, Can I keep this? And Isaid, Well, yeah, but I want a

(09:04):
copy. And in those days therewere no photocopiers. Sure, I'm
old, you know? And he said, Yes.
And you know, when you can foolsomebody, if your writing's good
enough to somebody thinks, oh,this might actually be the
writer. Then, hey, I made it.
But I wasn't trying to make it.
I was trying to entertainmyself. That's all I was trying
to do.

So that brings up a in my mind, a philosophical
question, and my daughters wantto be writers. My son does,
actually, as well. He can't behere. But the thought or the
question that I have is, what isthe value of developing your own
personal creativity by learningto mimic the style of others,
right? Because I think there'sthis risk of, oh, well, you're

(09:47):
not learning to have your ownvoice, but I think there's still
something productive there fordeveloping your own voice by
doing that.

Oh sure, if you were just trying to copy. One
thing, let's say you're an ElvisPresley fan. Okay, and let's say
you're trying to singeverything, just like Elvis. So
so close to Elvis, that ifsomebody closes their eyes and
doesn't see it's you, they mightthink it's Elvis. Okay, there's,

(10:18):
there's a danger there in thatall you're doing is becoming a
replacement Elvis, and that'sall I was trying to do when I
was writing for me. Because Iwas writing entertain myself, I
wasn't trying to get my ownvoice, but because there were
lots of writers I liked and wasinterested in, that meant there
was a lot of voices I wascopying, not just one. And the

(10:42):
other thing is, you see whatworks and doesn't work, and you
you learn to cut things out whenyou need to cut them out. And
the other thing I would say toall writers, it's not about you,
it's about the story you'retelling. And some stories need a
different voice than otherstories. If I am talking to you

(11:05):
now, I can use my facialexpressions. I can use the
intonations and inflections ofmy voice. I can scare you by
tricks that I can't use whenit's just curly ink on a page
and your brain is bringing thatall to life. But again, I would
have a different voice if I wastrying to scare you, a different

(11:27):
voice if I was trying to tell atender love story. You know the
different voices?

Yeah. Well, I think the key here is, is I'm
trying to summarize it becauseI'm a non fiction writer. I
like, I like summarizing, likeyou said, I'm giving
instructions to people, and sothe instruction that I'm hearing
is add a bunch of tools to yourbelt by reading all these
different styles and even tryingto write in those styles, it

(11:52):
gives you more things that youcan pull from, more
opportunities. And not onlythat, but you're also trying on
styles and say, what what worksfor me. What do I want to be
like?

Oh, well, let me give a concrete example that
everybody could face in life.
Either I have to give a toast tothe bride at a wedding I've
never given one before, orsomebody I know in my family has
died, and I have to give theeulogy at the funeral. What do I
say? Where do I start? And yougo to the library, and there's a

(12:28):
book there called toast to thebride, and you pull it out, and
you read 82 different toast tothe bride, and you either swipe
one or you think, I like that. Ishould mention that she gardens
without the Oh, I like that. Soyou're just using the work of
the people who come before you.
Same thing with a eulogy. Youdon't always have to reinvent

(12:51):
the wheel. The wheel actuallyworks pretty well, so just use
them. Yeah,

that's a great point. Okay, let's go back to
your story here for a moment.
How did you transition fromstarting young writing these
stories to actually beginwriting articles for Dragon
magazine about the ForgottenRealms. I

was writing stuff just for me to entertain myself.
And my father would go down tohis den in the evenings when we
were all in bed because we hadto be in school the next day.
And he would go to his den justto pull down books he wanted to
pull and they were either forwork or they were pleasure

(13:33):
reading. And he'd see my stuff,my written stuff, all lying all
over the table, and he'd readit. We started taking it into
work. And you know, his fellowworkers, who were all middle
aged and older men, would readit and go, Hey, that's pretty
good, Bob. So that was, that wasmy audience. And when I started

(13:55):
reading Dragon, there was acolumn in the magazine called
Dragon's bestry, which was arevival of something called
featured creature, and it was anew monster for the game. And at
the bottom it said, anythingprinted on these pages is as
official as anything in themonster manual. And you will get
paid 2525 so I started writing,and I would send it off, and

(14:20):
they would send me money. It wasgreat. And I wrote the first
one, leaving aside all thearticle stuff for a minute. I
just wrote my first monster andthe cursed. And then they
printed it. I said, Wow, thatwas easy. And the second
monster, the crawling claw, Imailed it off, and 16 days

(14:40):
later, my printed copy of Dragoncame back in the mail to me with
my article and oh, wow, that'srewarding. I said they're
desperate, so I sat down andwrote like eight monsters and
sent them all off, and they tookthem all and then Kim Mohan,
who's the Assistant Editor and.
Said, Are you coming to Gen Conthis year? And I said, I am now.

(15:02):
So I hopped on a Greyhound bus,and I was just a little kid, and
found my way to Gen Con. And hetook me out into the park and
said, How would you like to be acontributing editor? And I said,
What does it pay? And he said,That's the contributing part.

(15:23):
But he wanted somebody he couldbecause he was a journalist, and
he wanted somebody could writeto order. So that's how it
started.

So you're talking about monsters. Are you told
about how you're writing aboutmonsters? Yet Forgotten Realms
is much, much deeper than that.
I mean, this is where we getthings that people might be
familiar with, like baldrgate orNeverwinter or these kinds of
worlds. So where did youtransition from writing just
about monsters to reallycreating this massive, rich

(15:57):
world that you were drawingstories from? Well,

that was there from the beginning, because the
way I imagined things is bypicturing them in my head. And
the Forgotten Realms actuallystarted when I was in
kindergarten. Wow. Kindergarten,my day, they thought children
needed to relax as well as runaround. So we would run around
in the in the and make lots ofnoise. And then they had this

(16:26):
quiet time where they had flatmats on the floor. They turned
off all the lights. I had to lietoo. Yeah, okay, okay, yeah. We,
we'd lie on our backs and bequiet for a few minutes. And the
the object was not to fallasleep, you know, but I would
always daydream. And once, whenI I'm daydreaming of a forest at

(16:50):
night, and it's like a picture,Christmas postcard. Snow is
gently falling, steadily gentlyfalling, and we're in a glade in
the forest, so all the trees arecovered with white, fuzzy snow,
and white fluffy snow is comingdown. And there is a woman,
middle aged, gorgeous. She hassilver hair, and I don't mean

(17:13):
like mine white, old people'shair, I mean like the metal,
silver, long, silver hair, andshe's sitting on the ground
right beside a tiny campfirethat she has obviously laid and
lit, and she's playing an Irishharp. And all through the trees,
you can see the eyes ofcreatures at the forest who've

(17:36):
gathered to listen to her. Andthen out of the trees comes
another woman who looks ratherlike the first one, also long
silver hair. This woman iswearing full coat of plate
armor, and over it, she's got afur cloak because it's winter
and she's coming also attractedby the music to be with this

(17:59):
other woman who looks very likeher. I didn't know who these
women were. I didn't know whatthis setting was, but I wanted
to know more about it. So thatwas the realms. That's where it
started. And then

you had to fill in all the rest of it around
that. Here's this moment that wesee in the forest. Well, where
did this woman come from? Wheredid she come from? Why is the
forest full of eyes? Right?
Yeah.

And then you just build because you're in school
and learning, okay, water runsdownhill. Got it? The mouth of
the river will have a delta ifthere are people living along
there. The port at the mouth ofthe river controls everything
else, because the all the tradeflows through it. So that's
where that'll grow. Like NewYork grew, it'll be large and

(18:44):
rich, like Chicago grew. Youstart putting all that stuff
you're being taught in school,and you just make the world
real.

I want to highlight something you're
saying there. In fact, this is aconversation that Ella and I had
recently, because we weretalking about higher education
and the value of going tocollege and that sort of thing.
And I think this is relevant toanyone listening to it, which is
even if you study things thataren't directly related to what
it is that you want to do, itgives you a richness of
background. And for instance,like you said, if you didn't

(19:13):
learn what a Delta was, and youdidn't learn what that kind of
rainfall was, you wouldn't beable to incorporate it. But
having that study, and I thinkin much in your case, it's so
much reading, but also payingattention in school that lends
value and richness to thewriting that you're you're
creating. Yeah,

and if you can travel, if you have the money,
the time and the personalsecurity, like you can travel
safely, see the world, becauseseeing people living somewhere
else differently than you areand to them, it's normal. Just
seeing how people are differentall across, how the world, the

(19:49):
topography, the landscape, isdifferent, how the weather is
different, how people thinkabout different things. And
yeah, going to college. I thinkeveryone should go to college.
College, you get to see otherpeople who came from different
backgrounds, and you have towork with them. And that's the
same if you were, if you say,graduate from college and get a

(20:10):
job at a large corporation, youmay end up working with people
from as far away from the planetas you can get from you, and
then your life is richer. So

you're creating this world in your mind, and
then you're you're lendingitself to the writing that
you're doing, and that wasstarting to be used now, there
was a moment, wasn't there,where you actually were a
dungeon master for Dungeons andDragons using that world. Am I?
Am I? Is my research Correct?
That that's sort of how you madethat connection with TSR, is

(20:41):
that you were actually usingForgotten Realms and people
liked it. People saw it. Can youtell us a little bit about that?
Well,

what I was really doing was using the Forgotten
Realms as examples in my dragonarticles, because although it
may not look like it now,because we're talking to each
other, and I've been doing thisfor years. I am one of the
shyest people in the world. WhenI was a little kid, I couldn't

(21:11):
look people in the face. I wouldblush if somebody made eye
contact with me. And you know,my father said, Son, you're
trapped on the planet withbillions of people. They're not
going away. You're going to haveto learn to deal. Okay, that's
great. Yeah. And then then he,the whole family, was in the
church choir. So even though I'mthe only one in the in my

(21:33):
generation the family, who doesnot have perfect pitch, I was a
good mimic. So my father justsaid, Stand beside me, sing
exactly what I'm singing. Andtherefore I could fake reading
music and so on by just copyingmy dad. And therefore I got out

(21:55):
in the pub, got out in public. Iwas staring at a congregation of
people every day. I had to makepolite small talk, I had to sing
in front of them, that sort ofthing. But when it came to I'm
still shy, so when I'm writingdragon articles, I do not want
to write in as the author. Hi,my name's Ed Greenwood. I

(22:15):
thought a new way of rollingdice that none of you schmucks
have ever thought of before. Sohere's my newer That, to me, is
incredibly arrogant, forward.
And the other thing is, inForgotten Realms, like any
setting, you want to be able tohint the Dungeon Master without
saying something as an absolute,the strongest man in the world,
the most beautiful man in theworld. You don't want to speak

(22:37):
in absolutes. You want to givehints. And in those days,
everybody in the hobby who couldread dragon magazine, so
players, as well as dungeonmasters. So if you say, in the
ruined castle, there are fourorcs in room three, and their
hit points are blah, blah, blah,and they're guarding this
treasure, the players know it.

(23:00):
But if you use an unreliablenarrator, like the Wizard el
Minster, and he says, It'srumored there are orcs in those
ruins, but I don't credit itmyself, you've planted the idea
without saying the absolutes. Sobecause I wanted to use the

(23:21):
realms as an example in mydragon articles, I mentioned it
over and over again in articlesabout different things for the
game, and eventually, when theywere looking for a new setting
for the game for the secondedition. Jeff Grubb, who was a
staff designer at TSR, he'dwritten a white paper, a

(23:41):
proposal for unified game worldfor the second edition of the
game, and that went to uppermanagement. They liked it. They
rewarded him find the world.
That was his reward. So he cold,called me at the public library
I was working up at up inCanada, and said, Do you have a
complete, detailed world athome, or do you make it up as
you go along? And I said, yes,and yes, yeah. He said, Okay.

(24:04):
And he goes, write down thisphone number, phone it after
five o'clock. The man whoanswers will be my boss. He
wants to talk to you. And what,what they were actually doing
was they wanted to buy therealms, but they wanted it to
happen, not on a company phone,not on company time. So if our

(24:27):
conversation went pear shaped,it just never happened as it
happened. I said, Sure, and hesays, Don't you want to know how
much we'll offer you? Nope, justpublish it. That's cool, because
I was thinking I would get colormaps, because my own color maps,
I had to color them with pencilcrayons. So all the C's had
these strokes in them, and Iwant, no, I want a nice printed

(24:48):
map.

So that's interesting. So okay, so I have
to ask this question, because Ithink other people might be
curious about it. But. What yousold it for in today's terms is
not much. Is there any regret onyour part, or any feeling like
this didn't turn out the way itshould have?

No, you see, okay.
I was born in the 50s. I grew upin the 60s. I'm a child of the
60s. What it really meant forthe 60s is try everything and
then do what you want to do withyour life. And if you do what
you want to do with your life,you win. And some of us want to
write about made up worlds,

and that's sort of the the setup that that I
gave to this episode, which issometimes success is not about
the money, and in terms ofleaving a legacy and leaving a
rich world with stories thatpeople are telling. Millions of
people are using this, and nowwe're seeing movies and more.

(25:58):
And you created with startingwith that, that visual image of
when you were five or six yearsold, you've now created
something that entertains andenriches the lives of millions
of people around the world.
That, to me, is success. That'sThat's fantastic, that's
amazing. Fact that was, that wasthe reason why I reached out to

(26:18):
you, because one day I thoughtabout it, and this seriously was
the process. Ed, I was thinkingabout Dungeons and Dragons. I
think has got to I picked upboulders gate three, and I was
looking at it, and I was like,Who created this right? Who
built this world and and then Isaw you, and I'm like, Oh, I've
got to have him on because ofthat amazing experience. Okay,

(26:39):
so let's transition now to thebooks, and this is and I want to
talk to you a little bit aboutthat. I'm going to let the girls
ask some questions. Sure, youhave been prolific. How many
books have you written? How manybooks have you contributed to so
far?

Okay, I've lost count, but there was a time when
we were going through them allfor CV purposes, and it was 523
back then. In terms of onehander novels, we're up around
78 that's

crazy, not crazy in a bad way. I'm just saying
that's remarkable. And again,that's what I tell you've heard
me say this, right? I'm talkingto my daughters right now. If
you're listening on audio, ifyou're going to be a writer, you
must be prolific. You must loveit so much that it has to come
out, and all you want to do iswrite. And by the way, Ella has

(27:35):
already completed one novel.
She's not quite 15 yet, andshe's working on the second one.
In that spirit of things, whatdoes writing feel like to you?
Is it joy? Is it compulsion? Isit somewhere in between? What
drives you to write that much?

Oh, boy, it's just what I do. And that is what it
is to be human. By the way, whenwe were little kids, we were
always taught humans are theonly tool makers. Nope. Birds
use tools. Apes use tools.
Humans are the only people whotell stories to each other to
make their young peopleunderstand the world. I'm going
to tell you a story. Don't go onthe forest alone, because here's

(28:17):
what happened, blah, blah, blahto somebody. He ended up inside
the bear. You know, that sort ofstuff. You know that we tell
stories to each other tounderstand the world. So I just
tell stories all the time. Ifeel satisfaction when my
writing achieves what I wantedto do. In my mind, I feel the
satisfaction of finishing a job,and it it is useful, and it's

(28:41):
well done. And I feel anexcitement in the middle of the
writing process of, okay, so howwould so and so react? And then
you put together your charactersthe way you think they are, and
you just imagine inside theirheads, this is what so and so
would say, This is what so andso would do. And then you throw
them together and watch whathappens. There's

an element that I'm seeing from you. And by the
way, whether or not you're intodungeons and dragons, I highly
recommend everyone, at least fora few minutes, go on YouTube,
look up Ed Greenwood's channeland look at some of the recent
stuff that he's been doing,where he describes the world,
where he's answering questionsor describing the backstory of

(29:26):
things, and it's so fascinatingto see how immersed you are.
We're watching a person who iswalking through a world that
exists, and you're describingthings that in your mind are
100% true, and it's justfascinating to see how immersed
you are in the vision of things.
My question is, there's anelement of acting going on here,

(29:49):
where you are speaking in thevoice of a character, you're
taking on the personage of them.
Is that part of your writing?
Process too. Are you, forexample, having conversations
with yourself as you're puttingwords to the paper,

not out loud, usually, but there are occasions
when I will write dialog forsomeone, and I go, Hmm, and I
read aloud the dialog. And thenI say, the princess would never
say that, and then I rewrite thedialog. Now, the difficulty that

(30:26):
comes in here is, if you're notused to acting, you get self
conscious, and particularlywhere there's a gender swap
involved. So I'm a guy with alow voice, and you tend to go
all Monty Python. So if I'm, ifI'm the elf princess, and I'm
going, prithee, my lord, gustathou, how I trow, and you'll go,

(30:48):
oh my goodness, because it isnot like, what? What if the
princess is trying to saysomething very touching or
moving, or she's in love withthis troll, and she's trying to
say you can't make that work,yeah, because the element of
hilarity. So that's when it'sbest to step back out of that.

(31:09):
But all of these characters arejust existing in your head, and
the trick is to make them comealive in somebody else's head,
when they're just looking atthose curved squiggles of ink on
the page, and their brain isimagining all that, which is why
it's very hard to imagine amonster that isn't made up of
bits and pieces of realcreatures or fantasy monsters

(31:33):
you've already seen. But themain thing is, and this is
where, if I'm talking to peopleabout writing, take all writing
advice with a handful of salt,because we're all different. We
all do it differently.

Okay, so one last question from me, and I'm going
to turn it over to the girls.
You were married for many years.
I know your wife passed away nottoo long ago. My condolences for
that. It seemed, from thelimited information that I could
see, that you two were veryclose, and that she had a
profound influence in your lifeand in your career. Could you

(32:14):
just talk a little bit aboutwhat that relationship was like?
She

was the love of my life. We were together for 43
years. She died three years ago,and for the last 656, years of
her life, she was bedridden, andI was her nurse. But yeah, we
shared our lives together for 43years, and it was great. And we
did. We did our bucket listtogether. We wanted to drive
across Canada together, which isa huge country, from C to C, and

(32:43):
we did it. Cost us atransmission. We limped back in
our caravan with me buyingtranny fluid at every single gas
station and pouring it in,because if I didn't, the car
just stopped, that sort ofstuff. And and we traveled
Europe. My game writing took meto conventions all over the
world, and we shared all thosethings, and it was great. And

(33:07):
you know, if you can find apartner who is a friend that you
can depend on if something goeswrong, they can stand toe to toe
with you, and they will. Theywon't run away or saying that
I'm having a bad day. They'llstand up for you. That's the
most precious thing in theworld. Thank

you for sharing that. Ed, I know that's probably
not a question you get askedoften. To me, this is about all
of it, right? It's about havingmultifaceted success. The fact
that you were together for 43years is, in our day, truly
remarkable and wonderful, and tome, admirable. So thank you for
sharing that.

Thank you. Thanks for asking. Nobody ever asked
about Jenny. No, yeah,

okay, so I'm going to turn it over to Ella
first. Ella, what is a questionthat you have for Ed,

Unknown (33:57):
have you ever had stories that you've written that
you haven't published, that youjust didn't like, and then just
never did anything further. Likethere are there other stories,
oh yeah,

there are tons of unfinished things, and there are
tons of things I started writingfor somebody and they died, or
their magazine went under, ortheir game went under. And so
the story is now in effect,orphaned. And if I found out
about that early on, I stoppedwork on if I didn't, it's
sitting finished. And if I thinkthat story goes with that

(34:35):
project, I won't try and reuseit. I won't go into it and take
stuff out of it for anotherproject. I'll leave it as is,
because I would always ratherwrite something new, like a
magpie. The shiny new catches myeye. So yeah, I go and write
something new. So yeah, there's,there's tons of stuff lying

(34:56):
around. The problem is, in allof this is finding it. Yeah, I
have three shipping containersparked in my yard. I live on a
farm full of books, papers inboxes piled to the ceiling.

So have you not made an effort to scan that,
codify that, put it into like, adatabase or an app like that?

Yeah, I have made effort. And actually some realms
fans, my long term friends, havecome up here and spent a week
going through one of the seacans, and they scan some stuff,
took some stuff away with myblessings, so that some stuff
will get preserved and andcarried on. But yeah, there's no
time that's uh okay. And by theway, everybody listening here,

(35:42):
whether you're young or old, orwhat field of endeavor you're
in, the most precious thing inlife is time. So no, I haven't
codified because I don't havetime. I'd rather do something
new. I'd rather create more inthe time I have left.

All right, Darcy, do you have a question you want
to ask it?

Darci Crenshaw (36:03):
So this first one, it's kind of just like a
random question, if you werelike a creature or like a dragon
or something, what type ofcreature, or what type of dragon
would you be, and what colorwould you be?

In DND terms, I'd probably be a gold Dragon for
the shape shifting, so I couldpass as human. So if I wanted to
go to a nice restaurant or go toa bookstore in the evening, I
could just blend in. I'd like tobe a dragon that's strong enough
I don't have to worry aboutpersonal safety, because nobody
will challenge me, nobody willfight me, because I basically

(36:42):
don't want to fight, and I dowant to learn. So I'd like to be
a dragon with good eyesight, andI'd like to be able to shape
shift down any human size andread my way through candlekeep.

And my second question is, when you are
writing a story, how do you findthe way to really feel what your
character's feeling like? Whatdo you do to become kind of a
part of that character?

You just have to work on imagining and part of
that comes from when you'reyoung, your first two decades of
life, experience things now youhave to temper this with common
sense. And my father used tosay, well, try it. You know, if
you're going to wake up in agraveyard at dawn, try it again.

(37:33):
You temper all these things withwhat is this sensible and legal
to do? But you can experiencethings, and then makes your
writing more vivid. So that'sone thing to put yourself in
your character's way. Alwaysthink, and here's a good way for
planning. If you're the sort ofperson who plots and plans a

(37:55):
story, what does character Xwant in life? Does he want
money? Does he want power? Okay,but what does character X want
in this scene? Well,

this is really valuable advice. Thank you so
much for taking your time toshare it with us. Now, there's
something that we do in everyepisode, as a productivity guy,
as a leadership guy, I'minterested in helping people
take action. So we've heardwonderful stories about you and
examples from your career. Iwant to encourage people

(38:29):
listening this to actually dosomething about it, so something
they can do today or this week.
So what I'm going to do is,based on your story and what
you've shared with us, I'm goingto call out three possible
actions that someone can takethis week to make your success
story a part of their successstory. And then what I'd like
you to do, Ed is chime in at theend and provide one additional

(38:50):
action item that you wouldrecommend. Sound good?

Yeah,

all right, the first one, I'm going to start
right at the beginning with yourdad having all those books in
the house and giving you thatwealth of a library to pull from
and get excited about. So thefirst action is reading and
studying the work or even thelives of people you admire gives
you the richer basis to createwhatever it is that you want to

(39:21):
create. So I would encourage youto take the time to study and
read and listen to theseexamples, because that will just
start to create this wealth ofknowledge in your background. I
think about one book that I readwas about Abraham Lincoln, and I
learned so much from his life,and then I took bits and pieces

(39:43):
of that and said, I want to makethat part of my life. That's the
power of reading, that readingunlocks. The second one is sort
of related to this, but it's notabout what you're getting from
other people. It's about whatyou're putting into the world,
which is, be prolific, right?
You've heard me say this, Darcyand Ella, right? We have to
create a lot. My career is builton creating a lot. I've got over

(40:06):
35 courses on LinkedIn,learning. Ed's got dozens,
hundreds of all these books thathe's created. And being prolific
opens so many doors. And I'lljust add this to if you're don't
feel like you can be prolific insomething, that might be a sign
you're pursuing something you'renot passionate about. So double

(40:27):
check and say, am I willing todo the work to write all these
things? And then the last one,it kind of goes the comment that
you said before. But I'm goingto combine the essence of Ed
Greenwood here in this advice,which is, have a vision and make
that vision the result of allfive senses, not just what you

(40:51):
see, but what you hear, what youtaste, what you smell, all of
these things together, and themore you can build that vision,
the more successful you'llbecome. Whether that's your
vision for yourself in thefuture and seeing yourself do
that, or it's a vision thatyou're painting with your
marketing. There are so manyplaces where you can use all

(41:15):
five senses and create thatvision. So if there's something
you're working on right nowwhere vision is part of it. Ask
about it in terms of all fivesenses. Ed, what would you
suggest is a possible actionitem for people?

Okay, yeah, I'm going to say this twofold. It's
both sides of the same coin.
Okay, so the first thing is,it's pretty overwhelming to say
I'm going to write a fantasytrilogy, and they're all going
to be this thick, and they'reall going to hit the New York
Times bestseller list, andthey're going to be a long
series of movies. That's a bigproject. Why don't you just
write one scene? Because thenovel is made up of a bunch of

(41:53):
scenes. You can actually writethem separately and then move
them around on the table and putthem in different orders, and
then write what is in between,and end up with a book that way.
So write one scene, because it'ssmall enough you won't bog down.
Allow yourself what we used tocall back in TSR days, the dance
of done this, which is thatmoment of satisfaction you say,

(42:15):
I did it. I finished it. Now,here's the trick. Don't go to
bed or move on to something elseonce you finish the chapter,
because when you stare at theblank computer screen or the
blank page to start the nextsite, it's going to be much
harder to start from a standingstop. So finish the chapter, or

(42:39):
finish the scene, or finish thething, and then start the next
one. Get four or five pages,four or five lines into it. Now,
when you come to it the nextweek, you can say, Oh, those
lines are garbage, and you canrewrite them and throw them
away, but it's easier to startwhen you've got them on the

(42:59):
page. If you do a clean breakand finish, you get the dance of
doneness. But then your mindsays, Good, I'm done that.
That's out of the way. What'sthe next thing I have to do?
Fool yourself get started on thenext one and then leave it
hanging.

Oh man. As a productivity guy, Ed,

Unknown (43:20):
I love that.

I mean that is, that's such a great principle
for for tasks or projects thatyou're working on, set yourself
up. That's how I'm thinkingabout is set yourself up for
when you go back to the workyou've already got just a little
bit of a nudge. Gosh, I was justdoing that with, with a course
that I was creating, and I wouldnot I was doing that Ed without
thinking about that principle.
So that's fantastic. Thank you.

(43:45):
Thank you so much. I feel likewe could talk to you for hours.
I know that you just have awealth of wisdom, and
unfortunately, you have otherthings to do, but I know that
we've been enriched fromspending this time with you. So
my pleasure, if people want tofollow you and keep getting
information from you, whereshould they go?

You can hit me up on Twitter. I'm at the edverse.

Unknown (44:10):
E, H, E, E, D, V, E, R, S E, yeah,

that's it. And if you're on Discord, I have a
server called Greenwood'sgrotto, and I answer questions
there, and all the other peoplewho are into the realms and so
on, hang out and chat with eachother. So if you're trying to
find out something about therealms, you can just ask, and
somebody will go, Oh, that wascovered in this issue of Dragon.

(44:35):
Okay, so if you're into therealms, we all hang out there,
and I have a Patreon that youcan sign up for and get you know
little things about the realms,but that's if you're really into
the realms. You can also justhit me on YouTube, watch my
channel and see all thosevideos. And yeah, I'd like to
talk to you again when, whenElla is ready to publish that

(44:56):
book. Let's talk. Oh, wow,because you were in. Golden Age,
because here's the thing, youcan self publish on Amazon, and
none of us could before we werestuck with the Big Five in New
York as the gatekeepers. But youmay want to get a literary agent
and go through all the hoops,and it all depends, but think
about it. Well, that's

a very generous offer.

Unknown (45:18):
Thank you for that, Ed,

no problem. You

want to say goodbye,

Unknown (45:24):
bye, bye

and goodbye.
Everyone listening. Thank youfor listening. Remember, it's
not so much about what you heardor how you felt, it's about what
you do. So do something today,do something this week, and
you'll make Ed Greenwood'ssuccess story a part of your
success story. Thanks forlistening.

You've been listening to the Dave Crenshaw
Success Show, hosted by my dad,Dave Crenshaw, and produced by
invaluable incorporated researchand assistant production by
Victoria bidez, Sound Editing byNick Wright, voiceover by me,
Darci Crenshaw, and the music isby Ryan Brady via Pon five

(46:04):
licensing, please subscribe tothe Dave Crenshaw success show
on Apple podcasts Spotify,wherever you like to get your
podcasts. If you have asuggestion for someone my dad
might like to interview, pleasesend it to guests at Dave
crenshaw.com and please don'tforget to leave us a five star
review. See you next time you.

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The Wizard of Storytelling, Ed Greenwood - Creator of the Forgotten Realms & DND

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Wizard of Storytelling, Ed Greenwood - Creator of the Forgotten Realms & DND