March 6, 2025 • 39 mins
In this special episode, I pay tribute to my friend and industry icon, Jim "The Alpha Dawg" Ziegler. If you’ve been in the car business for more than five minutes, you probably know his name—or at the very least, you’ve heard his unmistakable voice calling it like it is. Jim was one of a kind, and his impact on the industry, and on me personally, is something I won’t soon forget.
And because his words still carry weight today, I’m including a full replay of our last conversation on the podcast—a conversation that remains one of the most downloaded and listened-to episodes in The Dealer Playbook’s history.
Jim Ziegler left behind a legacy that stretches far beyond the automotive industry. His influence, his mentorship(because let’s be honest, Jim wasn’t afraid to say what needed to be said) and all that contributed to making this industry better.
Thank you, Jim.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
MC (00:13):
hey, auto industry, welcome to this special episode of the
dealer playbook podcast, comingto you from a hotel room in a
very unplanned session, but avery necessary one for those of
you that are listening only andnot watching while I'm sitting
in a hotel room and I'm killingtwo birds with one stone, so
forgive me if the audio isn'texactly studio quality, but this
(00:37):
is a very timely episode that Iwanted to get out this week, in
particular, because I thinkit's appropriate to pay homage
to somebody that has had animpact on me and on my career
and helping me in some wayachieve some of the things that
(00:57):
I've achieved up to this point.
Of course, I'm speaking of noneother than Jim the Alpha Dog
Ziggler.
At the time of recording this,march 4th 2025,.
I've learned just over theweekend that Jim has passed, and
learning of his passing hasgiven me a moment of pause and
(01:17):
reflection, thinking about somefun experiences that I've had
with Jim, and I just thought itwould be appropriate this week
to share a tribute, a memoriamof sorts, to him.
For those of you that are OGlisteners, you'll know I've had
Jim on the podcast before and Ithink what I'd like to do on the
(01:41):
tail end of whatever I have tosay here in the beginning is
replay the most recent podcastthat we did together, because I
think a lot of it is stillapplicable.
But I wanted to express andshare just a few thoughts about
Jim that hopefully act as astamp in a timeline that
(02:04):
contributes, hopefullypositively, to his legacy.
Jim has left a legacy, there isno doubt about that.
You'd have to be living under arock with a blindfold on to not
see the outpouring ofappreciation and well wishes
directed towards him and hiswife, miss Debbie, who I'm
(02:25):
grateful to know as well, and Ithought I would just share some
things that I've been thinkingabout and also to express
appreciation for the impact thathe's had on me.
I first met Jim believe it ornot, I mean we're going back
well over a decade at the veryfirst conference I ever attended
(02:46):
in automotive.
I don't even remember the nameof the event.
Maybe it was AutoCon, probablyAutoCon.
This is the first time I hadever attended an event.
I can't believe I was livingunder a rock, you know, out
there in rural British Columbia,canada, not knowing that these
types of events were going onall the time in America and here
(03:07):
I was excited to be at thisfirst event in Las Vegas.
I couldn't believe I was in LasVegas at an event.
It was so exciting.
And I remember being in thebreezeway of this event center
and I hear the clanking ofchains and I'm like, well, I
have that.
And I look and here comes thisbrute of a man black shirt,
(03:32):
black jacket, black ball capthis is alpha dog on it, big
thick gold chain, big thick goldbracelet, rings, gold rolex and
I'm thinking, who is thiswalking jewelry store?
I had never seen anything likethis before.
(03:54):
I'd never seen anybody like himbefore, and that was my first
kind of sarcastic comment that Ithought to myself who is this
walking jewelry store?
But it didn't take long for meto observe the number of people
going hey, jim, hey, you know,hey.
And then they would talk andthey'd want to get a selfie, you
(04:14):
know, and he would oblige themand, of course, make sure that
it was a good picture.
You got to make sure it's agood picture with Jim and people
asking him for advice and hehad obliged them with that and
he would share with them adviceand show genuine interest in
them.
And I'm like, okay, well, thisis obviously somebody I need to
know and, however it happened, Iintroduced myself to him.
We end up getting a picturewhich I'll post in the show
(04:37):
notes so you guys can see thevery first, within minutes, of
knowing each other.
The first picture that we tooktogether at my first conference
and I just remember, you know,being this no name that nobody
had ever seen before trying toput myself out there, he didn't
recognize me.
I didn't know who he was just afew minutes earlier and the
(04:57):
level of interest he took in me.
You're from Canada, you knowlike yeah, and I, you know.
I'm sure he had some funnywitty joke to share about me
being from Canada, but I thoughtthat was really cool and I went
home from that event thinking,man, this is awesome.
Like people like this exist.
I feel like this is somebodythat I can look up to and learn
(05:19):
from.
And what have I been doing?
Living under this rock and thesticks?
Fortunately enough, as time wenton, he and I got to know each
other and I can remembersometimes being out in British
Columbia and rural BritishColumbia, feeling disconnected
at times, feeling like I was sofar out there I wasn't making
enough money at the time to beable to go to all of the events,
(05:40):
but seeing my peers on Facebookalways going to different
events and flying around andjust jealous or FOMO or whatever
.
But then I'd look at thecontacts on my phone and I'd see
guys like Jim Ziegler and a fewothers in my phone and just
even that simple thing for me ofseeing them in my phone and
being able to send them a textmessage made me feel connected
(06:01):
in those moments, which had animpact, a very positive impact
on me and keeping my head up, mychin up and look into the
future and where I wanted to go.
Getting to know him.
What I learned is that he's abig goofball and we resonated
with each other on that levelbecause I'm a goofball and we'd
(06:25):
love to joke with each other andlaugh together and he'd love to
share stories about you knowhis career and working in the
radio and how he met Miss Debbieand his career in car sales and
eventually building histraining company and so on.
And I was just I remember beinga young buck and just being so
(06:46):
inspired by him.
Now you'd share all thosestories and I'm not going to lie
, there were people who probablytook it the wrong way and were
like man, this guy does not stoptalking about himself.
But what I think I realized isthat it always somehow, like,
ended with an encouragement.
And I realized the languagethat Jim was speaking with me
(07:08):
was almost like hey, if I wasable to do these things, you can
too.
And I'll say this about Jim Ithink he probably saw something
in me before I could seesomething in myself.
And while he was such aninfluential character and I use
that word very strategically,because he's quite the character
(07:28):
, his influence and his reachand the, the ears that he was
able to bend he could have soeasily snubbed out a no-name
young buck, ambitious, loudtalker like me.
He could have been like youknow what, we don't need any
(07:51):
more opinions.
I've got enough opinions forall of us and mine are probably
much more accurate than yours.
We don't need more opinions.
We don't need new young guyslike you trying to figure it out
as you go.
But he didn't do that.
He didn't do that.
Instead, he opened his arms.
He welcomed me in.
He said come on in, big guy.
(08:12):
You know you call me big guy.
He put me in front of hisaudiences at his events, his
battle plans and whatnot.
He brought me on his webinars.
He took interest in mycompanies and offered advice and
wanted to connect me to hisnetwork.
He brought me on his lives andhis podcasts.
(08:35):
And he didn't have to, but hedid, and I would be lying if I
didn't admit that those momentswould be lying if I didn't admit
that those moments, thoseexperiences, have helped shape
what I've been able toaccomplish.
I don't want to send a mixedmessage here.
(08:55):
It's not like he and I talkedevery week.
There are definitely peoplethat he had much deeper
relationships with.
However, like I said, I'd belying if I didn't admit that
he's had an impact on me, andwhat's so cool to observe is the
impact that he's had acrossthis industry, not just in
(09:16):
America but around the world.
A testament to that is thatwhen I had him on my podcast, to
this day, years later, hisepisode with me his most recent
one continues to be one of themost downloaded, most viewed
episodes in the history of ourpodcast, and with hundreds of
(09:40):
thousands of downloads and views, of thousands of downloads and
views, even to this day, yearsand years later.
An occasional comment will makeit through on the YouTube video
or I'll get a message fromsomewhere in the world of
someone saying, hey, that was agreat episode with Jim Ziegler
(10:01):
and that's been really helpfulfor me all these years later.
And I share that with youbecause when impact is that far
reaching and that long lasting,it equates to the word that's
been used a lot this week as wememorialize and we tribute,
share our tributes to him, whichis legacy.
Jim has left behind a tremendouslegacy.
(10:23):
Jim has left behind atremendous legacy.
He was a controversial person,not in a conspiracy theory type
way, but in the way that hewasn't afraid to hold our
industry and the people in itaccountable, and he would do so
publicly.
And that probably rubbed somepeople the wrong way and caused
(10:47):
some rifts and this and that,but at the end of the day he
cared about the dealer body andhe cared about the vendors and
he cared about our industry andencouraged many, myself included
, to be the best that we couldpossibly be, and for that I'm
grateful.
We'll never forget anexperience that myself and
Robert Wiseman had in Boston.
Jim and Miss Debbie invited usto go sightseeing with them and
(11:13):
of course I wasn't going to passthat up.
I was still kind of like in awethat.
I'm like this guy knows my name, like somebody of this stature
knows my name and now he'sinviting us to come out.
He could have just gonesightseeing by himself with his
wife.
He's inviting us out to gosightseeing and I'm like heck,
yeah.
So now here, robert and I, findourselves sitting in the back
(11:33):
of this rental vehicle with maand pa ziggler in the front seat
.
That's how we felt.
We felt like the rear, you know.
Hey, guy, make sure you buckleup now.
Hey, you know, I was like well,it felt like we were out with
mom and dad and we're touringaround Boston and it was so fun,
(11:55):
you know, we got into the car,the radio turned on and I don't
even remember what the song iscalled, but it's like simply
irresistible, that song and it'son.
But it's like simplyirresistible, that song and it's
on.
And I remember dying, laughingin the back seat, as as Jim and
miss Debbie are in the frontseat, kind of like dancing and
singing to that song, you know,and it was just such a fun day.
(12:20):
I remember we stopped to eat atthis market.
I don't even remember.
It's some sort of big openmarket with restaurants and you
can buy food and souvenirs andall those sorts of things.
We're sitting down and I'vealways been one to wear a ring.
I, like you know maybe it's theItalian in me I like a good
watch, I like a ring and Iremember sitting at the table in
(12:42):
this marketplace and he looksdown, he peers down and he
notices that I'm wearing a ring.
I wear this ring.
For those of you that arelistening, it's a family, it's
the cerrillo family crest.
You probably know.
Maybe that's a decent shot ofit, and I wasn't wearing this at
the time, I was wearing someother ring.
He looks down and he goes hey,big guy, that's quite the alpha
(13:08):
dog starter pack.
You got on there Like he cause,cause.
I mean, he's a lock and jewelrystore and we laughed about it
and it was fun.
And you know now that I'mthinking about it in this moment
, I'm like this ring is probablytoo big for the size of my hand
and maybe in some way the sizeof this ring was influenced by
(13:31):
Jim.
He wore big jewelry.
Just a few months ago Jim calledme and it was right around the
time that he made theannouncement that his cancer was
back this time in the brain andI think we both knew on that
call that this might be the lasttime that we talked to each
(13:55):
other, and what I thought was sointeresting, he shared some of
the things that he had sharedwith me before some of his past
life experiences, the thingsthat he had shared with me
before some of his past lifeexperiences.
He shared with me the news thatthe cancer was back and that it
didn't look good.
He shared with me that he wasat peace, that he wasn't afraid
(14:19):
to die, that he knew he wasgoing to be with God, and he
reminded me of theencouragements that he had given
me, expressed his pride.
He let me know he was proud ofme.
He's been watching me and he'slet me know how proud he is of
me, that I've gone on to do somebig things, and also took it as
(14:44):
an opportunity to hold meaccountable, to ask me why I
have not yet joined the NationalSpeaker Association, and that I
really should, because he justsaw that I could do some great
things with that association.
And so I'm sure, jim I knowyou're tuning in from the other
side I'm sure at some point Iwill join that organization and
(15:07):
I know that it will obviously beas a result of the
encouragement you gave me, andso he encouraged me to do that
on that call, and that was it,and then we said goodbye and
after that, you know, in theweeks that passed, we exchanged
a couple of direct messages onFacebook, and, and then here we
(15:29):
are today.
He's now passed.
He's left behind a great legacy.
He's had a now written in thecorridors of this era in the
automotive industry and in thehearts of those that he's
(16:06):
touched appropriate way.
I know how to end this beforewe go into his episode, is
simply with these three wordsthank you, jim.
All right, we are so excited tobe sitting down with the man
himself, the alpha dog, jimziggler.
(16:27):
Jim, thank you so much forbeing with us today I wouldn't
miss it for anything you knowwhat it's.
We're extremely grateful.
I'm speaking for robert andmyself to just Jim Ziegler.
Jim, thank you so much forbeing with us today.
I wouldn't miss it for anything.
You know what.
We're extremely grateful.
I'm speaking for Robert andmyself to just have you as a
friend.
It was so fun a few weeks backbeing with you and Debbie in
Boston and touring around andjust enjoying your company and
(16:48):
hearing so many stories.
We were just talking about how,if there's one guy on the call
right now that has more micexperience than us and whoever
else is podcasting combined,it's the alpha dog.
Jim (16:58):
Oh golly.
I was on radio most of my adultlife before I got in the car
business.
MC (17:02):
And then, once you left radio, went into the car
business, you went on to becomea record holding F&I expert.
Jim (17:10):
Well, yeah, some of the records I have still stand.
Some of them have been longsince broken, but at the time I
held those records per retailunit.
I was in the first dealershipin the United States to do a
million dollars in one month infinance 1984.
Robert (17:27):
What kind of volume dog is somewhere, a place like that,
doing that?
Like you know, unit count,that's doing a million just in
finance.
Jim (17:35):
Well, that was dire and dire Volvo in the day and it's
kind of interesting to believe aVolvo dealership would be the
first dealership in the countryto hit the million dollar mark.
But we did, and I wasn't incharge, I wasn't the department
head, I was one of the managers,but there were five extremely
talented managers.
I was one of the managers, butthere were five extremely
talented managers.
It was May of 84.
We had a million seventy threethousand Richard Dyer.
(17:58):
That place was Camelot.
We took that dealership from 40units a month to eight hundred
and fifty units a month in ayear.
MC (18:05):
Oh smokes.
Ok, so this is perfect becauseyou know, like we said, and for
those listening in, they know wehaven't had an F&I show yet and
we couldn't think of anybodybetter to dig into this topic
than you.
Let me ask you, when it comesto finance and insurance, and
you taking this dealership from40 units to 800 some odd units,
(18:27):
what were some of the?
Can you give us an idea of someof the processes that you put
into place to achieve that?
Jim (18:34):
The idea that you can get deals bought is more important
than your skill at selling tothe customer.
It's more important to be ableto talk the banks into financing
these people with the leastconditions and the most wide
open financing.
That was my talent.
That's what I did best in myretail experience.
I invented something called theconsumer counseling interviewer
(18:56):
.
I believe if and I still teachat my F&I schools I want the F&I
manager to get in front of thedistressed credit customer early
.
What I see in dealerships todayis that they work these deals
to death, even after they'veidentified these people have
poor credit.
Why do you keep negotiatingwith somebody?
(19:16):
Once you realize they've gotpoor credit, they continue to
throw discounts and negotiatewith them.
No, I want the finance managerand I call him the financial
manager.
I don't want to be called thebusiness manager.
I met the business manager inthese dealerships.
That's a man or a woman in theback office with a bad
disposition.
I'm not the business manager,you know, I'm the financial
(19:37):
manager.
That sounds like Merrill Lynchor something.
You know.
I mean power.
Props are important and theability to get in front of the
customer and to do the consumercredit counseling interview,
because it's all about feelings.
Jackie Cooper was a friend ofmine.
Jackie said, Jim, it's aboutfeelings, and if you can explain
(19:59):
to people why the rate's higher, why we'd like them to buy
these protection options, you'remuch better off.
MC (20:07):
What was the process for getting somebody into this
credit or consumer creditcouncil interview?
I mean, was it Okay?
You just kind of.
They came in the door, theypiqued their interest, they were
intrigued and you said, hey,I've got some questions for you.
How did you lead into this?
Robert (20:23):
Is this after the workshop?
I'm sorry, Jim, Is this after?
Like they've they agreed tosome terms and submitted you
know?
Jim (20:36):
No, this is before they buy the car or after they bought
that.
Whenever we identify a badcredit, whatever stage of the
process, the sales manager saysoh, we got really bad credit
here, or even marginally badcredit.
I want the sales department tostop the deal.
I will go to the salesperson'soffice.
Hi folks, my name is JimZiegler.
I'm general financial managerhere at the dealership and I see
(20:56):
you're buying an automobile,and from these folks.
I never want the F&I manager toact like you're part of the
sales department.
I see you're buying a car fromthese folks and I just stop by
while you're working out thedeal to find out how do you
intend to pay for the car You'regoing to be financing with my
(21:16):
sources?
Do you intend to bring a checkin from your own bank, your own
credit union?
Are you going to pay cash?
Oh no, we're going to use yoursources.
Fantastic, I'm glad to haveyour business and I've got your
credit report right here and I'dlike to ask you a couple of
questions about your creditbefore I make a decision on the
approval of your loan.
Keeping control, but did youhear that last sentence before I
(21:39):
make a decision on the approvalof your loan.
Yeah, so many F&I managers.
Well, we'll see if I can getFord credit to approve it.
Now.
You gave away all your power.
MC (21:49):
Yeah, I love that.
Jim (21:51):
I approve the loan and I don't know about Canada, but in
the US the lender and the dealerare one and the same.
On the contract it's a holderin due course document.
So technically I am the lenderas the dealer until I get a bank
to buy that existing loan fromme.
So technically I do approve theloan based on the knowledge
(22:15):
that I have a lender I can sellit to.
So when I tell them I approvethe loan and I tell the people
listen, I'm approving your loan.
I want to tell you that inadvance, but I'm not the final
decision maker.
My associates at Ally Financialcan still turn you down.
They can overrule me.
I'm not the final decisionmaker.
My associates at Ally Financialcan still turn you down.
They can overrule me.
I'm not the final decisionmaker, I'm approving this loan.
(22:36):
And that puts the consumersquarely in my corner.
Oh, he's approving the loan,but he's got to get it past his
associates at Ally, myassociates at Ford Credit.
See, word tracking is why mycourse is so different.
The words you say to thecustomer are your toolbox, and I
(23:02):
have invented these very uniqueword tracks that are not taught
in any other F&I school, andthe results my people are
getting are incredible.
So that's the consumer creditcounseling interview, michael
and Robert, is for two things.
Number one, to get informationto get the deal approved,
because I'm going to end up onthe telephone with a lender,
even though I submit it throughdealer track or one of the
(23:24):
services, I'm going to end upprobably getting a condition or
a turndown and I'm going to endup on a telephone talking to the
credit supervisor at Ally orFord Credit or whatever Chrysler
.
So when I'm on the phone withthe supervisor, I need
ammunition, I need justification, extenuating circumstances, I
(23:45):
need some type of an argument tobuild up why this loan should
be approved.
I'm getting that from theconsumer and then I'm looking
for other credit they havethat's not in the bureau.
So that's what this interview'sabout.
But the other part of it ispositive intimidation.
Now that sounds like a doublenegative.
Yeah, okay, you can intimidatesomebody without scaring them or
(24:07):
humiliating them.
You can intimidate somebodywithout scaring them or
humiliating them Because today,you know, we used to call people
with distressed credit badnames Bogues, dregs, roaches,
credit criminals get me donebandits.
We're trying to be a littlemore socially acceptable.
Nowadays these people are creditchallenged, equity impaired.
(24:30):
You know trying to put a littlepositive.
Well, one thing about peoplewith distressed credit they know
who they are.
They've received mail about it.
They've seen tow trucksskulking around their driveways.
They know who they are.
You know not a big secret tothem.
They've got poor credit, so youknow.
But today we have BWA's andbogus with attitudes Yep, yep,
(24:54):
yep.
I mean they used to be humbleand have a little humility.
Now they think it's aconstitutional right not to pay
your bills and get another loan.
So you have to take thatattitude off of them.
And that's where the positiveintimidation comes in.
I'm approving your loan.
Behave yourself.
I didn't buy all that stuff youdidn't pay for.
You know, it was not my fault.
(25:14):
And the credit interview prettywell establishes that.
There's four things that thelender's looking for.
They all start with a, c.
They're looking for capacity,collateral creditability and
character.
And you've got to build thosethings when you're in this
interview.
I've got to find reasons thatthis loan should be approved.
MC (25:36):
So this could really be a massive gateway for dealerships
to sell more vehicles, becausethis credit counseling interview
helps them identify howqualified.
You know, not just from afinancial position but from just
you know, just from variousavenues, how qualified that
individual is to own thatvehicle and how reliable they'll
(25:59):
be in paying the bill and allthose sorts of things.
So it's really like you said,it's positive intimidation,
which I love, but it's also youkeeping control of this and not
handing over any amount ofcontrol to the consumer.
Jim (26:14):
When I say I approve the loan, they sit up and pay
attention.
MC (26:18):
They're all of a sudden on your side.
Jim (26:20):
Exactly.
And I say I'm approving yourloan, but I still have to review
my approval with my associatesat the bank.
Who could overrule me?
I'm not the final decisionmaker.
Help me to help you.
It's a whole philosophy thatgoes with it.
It's incredible how well thisworks.
What did they say during theinterview?
Well, I had a repossessionbecause I was in the hospital.
(26:43):
Oh, I understand.
Do I have your permission totell my associates at the bank
you'll be purchasing creditinsurance to protect this
investment.
Oh, my car kept breaking down.
Oh, I understand.
Do I have your permission totell my associates at the bank
you'll be purchasing a serviceagreement to protect this
vehicle?
Well, do I have to take that?
No, sir, it is not required,it's not mandatory, but I
(27:06):
strongly suggest you take it.
You see, I'm never going to lie, cheat, sneak or deceive to
sell finance.
There's a line and I will walkright up to it, but I will never
step over it.
MC (27:18):
Right, well, and I mean you know the way you're wording.
I mean your word tracksposition you from a point where
I mean I don't know about you,robert, but I don't get the
impression that you're walkingclose to the line.
You're just maintaining controlover the conversation and
helping them, in a much morepositive way, understand the
status of their situation.
(27:39):
It's like hey, you know youhave bad credit for legitimate
reason.
You know that you didn't paybills or you didn't whatever.
You neglected to pay bills.
You have really poor credit forwhatever the reason is, but
you're trying to buy a 40,000 ora $50,000 vehicle.
This method kind of puts thedealer back in the driver's seat
where, like you said, they'renot having to feel the need to
(28:01):
slash prices and offer discounts.
And let me see what can be done, or let me see if this will
work or if I can get youapproved.
You stay in the driver's seat,you manage the conversation, but
in a way that dispels thegrubby car guy myth, which is
that we're against you and we'rejust trying to take you.
It's like no, we'relegitimately trying to educate
you and we're doing that from aposition of power.
Jim (28:23):
Well see, that's the thing.
Everything about F&I is a powerposture the way your office
looks, the way you dress.
When I'm in a dealership andI'm doing F&I, I am always
suited up.
I mean, I'm wearing a tie, asuit and I don't care if the
rest of the dealership's wearingpolo shirts and shorts.
I am not one of them, I am abanker.
(28:45):
Bankers do not wear polo shirts, if you can follow.
I want to be different than thesales department.
I want to be totally divorcedfrom who they are.
I'm not one of them, I'msomething else.
And that when they come in myoffice there's no other
paperwork of visible.
They can't.
You know, my office looks likea banker's office Very important
(29:08):
.
It doesn't look like some thirdrate clerk with papers stacked
up everywhere.
And when you get a loan from abank you don't see another
customer's loan sitting on thetable, right, you know.
You look at some of thedealerships.
They put the F&I people in theworst, dingiest, dark ass
dungeon in the world.
I'm going to quit it.
(29:28):
When I went to Banner Ford inDecatur, georgia, my first big
F&I job back in the 80s, I wasdating my wife.
Then we hadn't gotten marriedyet and I was promoted to F&I
manager and I went in thatoffice and I couldn't believe.
And so her and I went in thereon a Sunday and it had this
(29:52):
black paneling on the wall withstaples in the paneling where
the guy had stapled stuff up, alittle piece of paper hanging
out the staples and there was abeam over the desk and he had
all these race sheets stapled onthe beam where the customer
could see it and one of one legof the desk was bricks and the
computer was filthy with fingergrease and the phone had ear
smudge on it.
You know, I got going that off.
Oh, and we had shag carpetingand they smoked inside the
(30:14):
building in those days I go inthat office.
Oh, and we had shag carpetingand they smoked inside the
building in those days.
And I'm going what?
Oh man, dingy, dark dungeon.
Well, the owner, brad Greer,came in on a Monday and he did a
double take when he walked bythe office Because that brown
(30:35):
black ugly paneling was in thedumpster and she and I had
wallpapered the office and mycarpet on the floor, my desk, my
blonde desk and my blondecabinetry behind it and living
room type lighting, a sofa andcomfortable chairs for the
consumer.
I had wall hanging paintings onthe wall.
He couldn't believe it.
He was so embarrassed he had toremodel his own office.
MC (30:56):
So there's the aspect of maintaining control from the
conversational standpoint, butalso conditioning their what do
you want to call it likeemotional response by changing
the atmosphere of your office?
Jim (31:12):
Everything in my life is power posture.
You know it's powerful, it'sintense, Everything about it.
You know I set up theatmosphere.
When a customer comes in, Igive the husband a pen.
I give the wife a pen Because Idon't want them locking eyes
when we're signing documents.
The show's up front here, yes,and I do a menu presentation and
(31:37):
I do a menu presentation and Ihave some word tracks that are
just incredible in the F&Ischools that I do, Like one of
the things F&I people bump into.
Robert, you've probably seenthis any number of times.
Oh, I don't want any of thatstuff.
I know you're selling stuffhere.
I don't want any of that.
My answer to that is no problem, sir, but I am required by law
(31:57):
to explain the coverages to youbecause you're going to have to
sign waivers, releases and holdharmless agreements on those
items that you decline and agreeto self-insure.
Self-insure scares the hell outof them.
When I tell them, people go I'mself-insuring.
Oh, absolutely.
You know, an automobile is15,000 high-tech component parts
(32:21):
and you're self-insuring on allof that if you don't get the
parts and labor agreement.
MC (32:28):
Okay.
So let me ask you this when yougo into a dealership and you
know they've brought you on to,I guess, fix things or set up
process and protocols to helpthem take their business to the
next level, what are the demands?
I know you mentioned that thefirst thing that you have to
absolutely have I think we weretalking about this in Boston is
(32:50):
you need the ability to firepeople.
Does that mean you're goinginto the dealership to make big
changes when they're needed?
Jim (32:57):
Well, not really, and I don't need the ability to fire
people.
I need the ability for thedealer to be willing to fire
people.
Got it?
You follow what I'm saying.
I need to have authority andI'll have managers some, and
usually I don't have thatproblem.
Very seldom the managers areusually totally on board with me
.
Generally, it's the salespersons that rebel against the
(33:21):
processes.
The managers welcome it becausethey see the profitability.
But once in a while I havemanagers.
Well, this is the way we liketo do it.
Well, you don't think theybrought me here because you're
doing a good job.
MC (33:36):
No doubt.
And what are?
Robert (33:47):
some of the, I guess, standard kind of typical issues
that you see when you go intodealerships In regards to
finance.
MC (33:50):
Yeah, just in regards to what we're talking about, when
you go into a dealership andyou're there to fix their F and
I process, help them, you know,improve what they're doing.
What, what's what are you justkind of seeing across the board
as something that just kind ofeach dealership has in common
that they could do right now toto improve.
Robert (34:04):
And on top, to add to that, jim, the role of the
finance.
Jim (34:10):
Well, you're almost answering the question, yeah.
Robert (34:14):
Because I think a lot of times that I've seen that, that
sometimes they play their roles.
Sometimes I feel like the.
I've seen where the deskmanager actually is submitting
for approvals and you know theone calling the bank, and then
in the end, the you know the F&Iguy.
He's just pretty much spinningpaperwork and at, you know,
(34:34):
selling product.
Well, see, that's not the rightstructure, right.
Jim (34:38):
That's wrong.
First of all, the F&I managerhas more skills, more schools,
more specialized training thananybody in the dealership,
except the technicians atFix-A-Cars.
Most sales managers learn theirjob by watching their
predecessor who was fired.
Yeah, fair enough, I've got oneof the very few sales manager
(35:00):
schools out there.
There's dozens of F&I schoolsand we are the highest per
square inch profit center in thedealership and most sales
managers are eating the lastbrown shriveled leaves off the
trees before they're sucked downin the tar pits.
Most customers today are buyingcars based on finance, not
based on price.
(35:21):
The payment is more importantthan the trade value or the
price.
So, to answer your question,michael, 99% of the time the
sales management is dominatingthe F&I management.
The sales management isdominating the F&I management.
And if I were to buy thedealership right now, I would
tell you all my managers wouldhave equal power, including the
(35:42):
ability to terminate asalesperson.
And I've had people say well,my F&I manager couldn't handle
that.
Well then, why did you hire awimp?
Excuse me, we're a profitcenter, we're not clerks.
You're not the sales manager'ssecretary.
You're certainly not answerableto salespersons.
You are a manager, and manageris a position of dignity,
(36:04):
authority and respect, not bethe sales manager's secretary or
clerk for the sales manager.
I've been to more schools, moreskills.
No, I won't put up with that.
And if I'm a dealer, I'm goingto have a general sales manager
and below that level it's justgoing to be managers, all with
(36:25):
equal authority andresponsibility.
Robert (36:27):
Now I think I might've gotten this from you.
I believe in some of yourtraining previously when I was
still in the dealership and Iwould always do my introduction
to the finance director orwhomever as like this is like
the top guy in the dealership.
This right, you know Mr and MrsCustomer here's.
You know Sam, he's the directorof finance here.
(36:48):
It's number one top guy here inthe store.
What is the?
You know what's the properturnover.
You know like when introducingto finance and then also like
how important is the salespersonkind of prepping, or you know
getting or talking about theproducts, like should the
(37:08):
salesperson be discussing andbacking up any of the products
that he's about to?
You know they're about toembark on once they go in into
the F&I office.
I don't want them to, you don'twant them to.
Jim (37:20):
I don't want them to even mention the existence of the
products.
They're not prepared to sellthem, because the consumer is
going to say well, how much isthat?
Now, the salesperson are goingto probably ballpark a figure
and kind of well, I don't needthat.
And then they get in the F&Ioffice and I start to present
the products.
Look, I already told that otherguy, I don't want that and so
you're selling against that.
MC (37:40):
It increases your margin of error.
Jim (37:42):
Exactly.
And, by the way, robert, I'veprobably already met these
people.
I tell F&I managers to meet thecustomer on the floor.
Do not meet them for the firsttime in combat.
Robert (37:53):
Okay, and then what's the best?
How do you suggest?
Jim (37:56):
that I go out there and I said hi, are you, Mr and Mrs
Jenkins, Hi, I'm Jim Ziegler.
I'm general financial managerhere at the dealership.
I'll be processing all yourlegal paperwork, making all your
financial disclosures andsigning waivers and releases,
and hold harmless documents onitems that you reject and agree
to self-insure.
It's going to take about 45minutes.
(38:16):
I'll have you in there in justa moment.
So I've already answered alltheir questions.
I tell F&I managers to have aone long winded sentence like
that, Because the customer hasthree questions who are you?
What are we going to do?
How long is this going to take?
So I answer all three of thosequestions in one sentence who am
(38:37):
I?
What am I going to do?
How long is this going to take?
So now they have no morequestions and I'll have you in
there in just a moment and bythat time all the salesperson
say hey, this Mr Ziegler, afinancial manager.
You met him earlier and veryseldom do I ever have a customer
in my office that I didn't comeout and meet first.
That does happen and I want avery short introduction if they
(39:01):
haven't met me.
This is Mr Ziegler, he's ourfinancial manager.
He'll make all your legaldisclosures and show you all
your financial options.
Bam gone.
Robert (39:10):
Thank you, mr Alpha Dog, we appreciate it.
MC (39:13):
Take care guys.
Hey, thanks for listening tothe Dealer Playbook Podcast.
If you enjoyed tuning in,please subscribe, share and hit
that like button.
You can also join us and theDPB community on social media.
Check back next week for a newDealer Playbook episode.
Thanks so much for joining.
hey, auto industry, welcome to this special episode of the
dealer playbook podcast, comingto you from a hotel room in a
very unplanned session, but avery necessary one for those of
you that are listening only andnot watching while I'm sitting
in a hotel room and I'm killingtwo birds with one stone, so
forgive me if the audio isn'texactly studio quality, but this
(00:37):
is a very timely episode that Iwanted to get out this week, in
particular, because I thinkit's appropriate to pay homage
to somebody that has had animpact on me and on my career
and helping me in some wayachieve some of the things that
(00:57):
I've achieved up to this point.
Of course, I'm speaking of noneother than Jim the Alpha Dog
Ziggler.
At the time of recording this,march 4th 2025,.
I've learned just over theweekend that Jim has passed, and
learning of his passing hasgiven me a moment of pause and
(01:17):
reflection, thinking about somefun experiences that I've had
with Jim, and I just thought itwould be appropriate this week
to share a tribute, a memoriamof sorts, to him.
For those of you that are OGlisteners, you'll know I've had
Jim on the podcast before and Ithink what I'd like to do on the
(01:41):
tail end of whatever I have tosay here in the beginning is
replay the most recent podcastthat we did together, because I
think a lot of it is stillapplicable.
But I wanted to express andshare just a few thoughts about
Jim that hopefully act as astamp in a timeline that
(02:04):
contributes, hopefullypositively, to his legacy.
Jim has left a legacy, there isno doubt about that.
You'd have to be living under arock with a blindfold on to not
see the outpouring ofappreciation and well wishes
directed towards him and hiswife, miss Debbie, who I'm
(02:25):
grateful to know as well, and Ithought I would just share some
things that I've been thinkingabout and also to express
appreciation for the impact thathe's had on me.
I first met Jim believe it ornot, I mean we're going back
well over a decade at the veryfirst conference I ever attended
(02:46):
in automotive.
I don't even remember the nameof the event.
Maybe it was AutoCon, probablyAutoCon.
This is the first time I hadever attended an event.
I can't believe I was livingunder a rock, you know, out
there in rural British Columbia,canada, not knowing that these
types of events were going onall the time in America and here
(03:07):
I was excited to be at thisfirst event in Las Vegas.
I couldn't believe I was in LasVegas at an event.
It was so exciting.
And I remember being in thebreezeway of this event center
and I hear the clanking ofchains and I'm like, well, I
have that.
And I look and here comes thisbrute of a man black shirt,
(03:32):
black jacket, black ball capthis is alpha dog on it, big
thick gold chain, big thick goldbracelet, rings, gold rolex and
I'm thinking, who is thiswalking jewelry store?
I had never seen anything likethis before.
(03:54):
I'd never seen anybody like himbefore, and that was my first
kind of sarcastic comment that Ithought to myself who is this
walking jewelry store?
But it didn't take long for meto observe the number of people
going hey, jim, hey, you know,hey.
And then they would talk andthey'd want to get a selfie, you
(04:14):
know, and he would oblige themand, of course, make sure that
it was a good picture.
You got to make sure it's agood picture with Jim and people
asking him for advice and hehad obliged them with that and
he would share with them adviceand show genuine interest in
them.
And I'm like, okay, well, thisis obviously somebody I need to
know and, however it happened, Iintroduced myself to him.
We end up getting a picturewhich I'll post in the show
(04:37):
notes so you guys can see thevery first, within minutes, of
knowing each other.
The first picture that we tooktogether at my first conference
and I just remember, you know,being this no name that nobody
had ever seen before trying toput myself out there, he didn't
recognize me.
I didn't know who he was just afew minutes earlier and the
(04:57):
level of interest he took in me.
You're from Canada, you knowlike yeah, and I, you know.
I'm sure he had some funnywitty joke to share about me
being from Canada, but I thoughtthat was really cool and I went
home from that event thinking,man, this is awesome.
Like people like this exist.
I feel like this is somebodythat I can look up to and learn
(05:19):
from.
And what have I been doing?
Living under this rock and thesticks?
Fortunately enough, as time wenton, he and I got to know each
other and I can remembersometimes being out in British
Columbia and rural BritishColumbia, feeling disconnected
at times, feeling like I was sofar out there I wasn't making
enough money at the time to beable to go to all of the events,
(05:40):
but seeing my peers on Facebookalways going to different
events and flying around andjust jealous or FOMO or whatever
.
But then I'd look at thecontacts on my phone and I'd see
guys like Jim Ziegler and a fewothers in my phone and just
even that simple thing for me ofseeing them in my phone and
being able to send them a textmessage made me feel connected
(06:01):
in those moments, which had animpact, a very positive impact
on me and keeping my head up, mychin up and look into the
future and where I wanted to go.
Getting to know him.
What I learned is that he's abig goofball and we resonated
with each other on that levelbecause I'm a goofball and we'd
(06:25):
love to joke with each other andlaugh together and he'd love to
share stories about you knowhis career and working in the
radio and how he met Miss Debbieand his career in car sales and
eventually building histraining company and so on.
And I was just I remember beinga young buck and just being so
(06:46):
inspired by him.
Now you'd share all thosestories and I'm not going to lie
, there were people who probablytook it the wrong way and were
like man, this guy does not stoptalking about himself.
But what I think I realized isthat it always somehow, like,
ended with an encouragement.
And I realized the languagethat Jim was speaking with me
(07:08):
was almost like hey, if I wasable to do these things, you can
too.
And I'll say this about Jim Ithink he probably saw something
in me before I could seesomething in myself.
And while he was such aninfluential character and I use
that word very strategically,because he's quite the character
(07:28):
, his influence and his reachand the, the ears that he was
able to bend he could have soeasily snubbed out a no-name
young buck, ambitious, loudtalker like me.
He could have been like youknow what, we don't need any
(07:51):
more opinions.
I've got enough opinions forall of us and mine are probably
much more accurate than yours.
We don't need more opinions.
We don't need new young guyslike you trying to figure it out
as you go.
But he didn't do that.
He didn't do that.
Instead, he opened his arms.
He welcomed me in.
He said come on in, big guy.
(08:12):
You know you call me big guy.
He put me in front of hisaudiences at his events, his
battle plans and whatnot.
He brought me on his webinars.
He took interest in mycompanies and offered advice and
wanted to connect me to hisnetwork.
He brought me on his lives andhis podcasts.
(08:35):
And he didn't have to, but hedid, and I would be lying if I
didn't admit that those momentswould be lying if I didn't admit
that those moments, thoseexperiences, have helped shape
what I've been able toaccomplish.
I don't want to send a mixedmessage here.
(08:55):
It's not like he and I talkedevery week.
There are definitely peoplethat he had much deeper
relationships with.
However, like I said, I'd belying if I didn't admit that
he's had an impact on me, andwhat's so cool to observe is the
impact that he's had acrossthis industry, not just in
(09:16):
America but around the world.
A testament to that is thatwhen I had him on my podcast, to
this day, years later, hisepisode with me his most recent
one continues to be one of themost downloaded, most viewed
episodes in the history of ourpodcast, and with hundreds of
(09:40):
thousands of downloads and views, of thousands of downloads and
views, even to this day, yearsand years later.
An occasional comment will makeit through on the YouTube video
or I'll get a message fromsomewhere in the world of
someone saying, hey, that was agreat episode with Jim Ziegler
(10:01):
and that's been really helpfulfor me all these years later.
And I share that with youbecause when impact is that far
reaching and that long lasting,it equates to the word that's
been used a lot this week as wememorialize and we tribute,
share our tributes to him, whichis legacy.
Jim has left behind a tremendouslegacy.
(10:23):
Jim has left behind atremendous legacy.
He was a controversial person,not in a conspiracy theory type
way, but in the way that hewasn't afraid to hold our
industry and the people in itaccountable, and he would do so
publicly.
And that probably rubbed somepeople the wrong way and caused
(10:47):
some rifts and this and that,but at the end of the day he
cared about the dealer body andhe cared about the vendors and
he cared about our industry andencouraged many, myself included
, to be the best that we couldpossibly be, and for that I'm
grateful.
We'll never forget anexperience that myself and
Robert Wiseman had in Boston.
Jim and Miss Debbie invited usto go sightseeing with them and
(11:13):
of course I wasn't going to passthat up.
I was still kind of like in awethat.
I'm like this guy knows my name, like somebody of this stature
knows my name and now he'sinviting us to come out.
He could have just gonesightseeing by himself with his
wife.
He's inviting us out to gosightseeing and I'm like heck,
yeah.
So now here, robert and I, findourselves sitting in the back
(11:33):
of this rental vehicle with maand pa ziggler in the front seat
.
That's how we felt.
We felt like the rear, you know.
Hey, guy, make sure you buckleup now.
Hey, you know, I was like well,it felt like we were out with
mom and dad and we're touringaround Boston and it was so fun,
(11:55):
you know, we got into the car,the radio turned on and I don't
even remember what the song iscalled, but it's like simply
irresistible, that song and it'son.
But it's like simplyirresistible, that song and it's
on.
And I remember dying, laughingin the back seat, as as Jim and
miss Debbie are in the frontseat, kind of like dancing and
singing to that song, you know,and it was just such a fun day.
(12:20):
I remember we stopped to eat atthis market.
I don't even remember.
It's some sort of big openmarket with restaurants and you
can buy food and souvenirs andall those sorts of things.
We're sitting down and I'vealways been one to wear a ring.
I, like you know maybe it's theItalian in me I like a good
watch, I like a ring and Iremember sitting at the table in
(12:42):
this marketplace and he looksdown, he peers down and he
notices that I'm wearing a ring.
I wear this ring.
For those of you that arelistening, it's a family, it's
the cerrillo family crest.
You probably know.
Maybe that's a decent shot ofit, and I wasn't wearing this at
the time, I was wearing someother ring.
He looks down and he goes hey,big guy, that's quite the alpha
(13:08):
dog starter pack.
You got on there Like he cause,cause.
I mean, he's a lock and jewelrystore and we laughed about it
and it was fun.
And you know now that I'mthinking about it in this moment
, I'm like this ring is probablytoo big for the size of my hand
and maybe in some way the sizeof this ring was influenced by
(13:31):
Jim.
He wore big jewelry.
Just a few months ago Jim calledme and it was right around the
time that he made theannouncement that his cancer was
back this time in the brain andI think we both knew on that
call that this might be the lasttime that we talked to each
(13:55):
other, and what I thought was sointeresting, he shared some of
the things that he had sharedwith me before some of his past
life experiences, the thingsthat he had shared with me
before some of his past lifeexperiences.
He shared with me the news thatthe cancer was back and that it
didn't look good.
He shared with me that he wasat peace, that he wasn't afraid
(14:19):
to die, that he knew he wasgoing to be with God, and he
reminded me of theencouragements that he had given
me, expressed his pride.
He let me know he was proud ofme.
He's been watching me and he'slet me know how proud he is of
me, that I've gone on to do somebig things, and also took it as
(14:44):
an opportunity to hold meaccountable, to ask me why I
have not yet joined the NationalSpeaker Association, and that I
really should, because he justsaw that I could do some great
things with that association.
And so I'm sure, jim I knowyou're tuning in from the other
side I'm sure at some point Iwill join that organization and
(15:07):
I know that it will obviously beas a result of the
encouragement you gave me, andso he encouraged me to do that
on that call, and that was it,and then we said goodbye and
after that, you know, in theweeks that passed, we exchanged
a couple of direct messages onFacebook, and, and then here we
(15:29):
are today.
He's now passed.
He's left behind a great legacy.
He's had a now written in thecorridors of this era in the
automotive industry and in thehearts of those that he's
(16:06):
touched appropriate way.
I know how to end this beforewe go into his episode, is
simply with these three wordsthank you, jim.
All right, we are so excited tobe sitting down with the man
himself, the alpha dog, jimziggler.
(16:27):
Jim, thank you so much forbeing with us today I wouldn't
miss it for anything you knowwhat it's.
We're extremely grateful.
I'm speaking for robert andmyself to just Jim Ziegler.
Jim, thank you so much forbeing with us today.
I wouldn't miss it for anything.
You know what.
We're extremely grateful.
I'm speaking for Robert andmyself to just have you as a
friend.
It was so fun a few weeks backbeing with you and Debbie in
Boston and touring around andjust enjoying your company and
(16:48):
hearing so many stories.
We were just talking about how,if there's one guy on the call
right now that has more micexperience than us and whoever
else is podcasting combined,it's the alpha dog.
Jim (16:58):
Oh golly.
I was on radio most of my adultlife before I got in the car
business.
MC (17:02):
And then, once you left radio, went into the car
business, you went on to becomea record holding F&I expert.
Jim (17:10):
Well, yeah, some of the records I have still stand.
Some of them have been longsince broken, but at the time I
held those records per retailunit.
I was in the first dealershipin the United States to do a
million dollars in one month infinance 1984.
Robert (17:27):
What kind of volume dog is somewhere, a place like that,
doing that?
Like you know, unit count,that's doing a million just in
finance.
Jim (17:35):
Well, that was dire and dire Volvo in the day and it's
kind of interesting to believe aVolvo dealership would be the
first dealership in the countryto hit the million dollar mark.
But we did, and I wasn't incharge, I wasn't the department
head, I was one of the managers,but there were five extremely
talented managers.
I was one of the managers, butthere were five extremely
talented managers.
It was May of 84.
We had a million seventy threethousand Richard Dyer.
(17:58):
That place was Camelot.
We took that dealership from 40units a month to eight hundred
and fifty units a month in ayear.
MC (18:05):
Oh smokes.
Ok, so this is perfect becauseyou know, like we said, and for
those listening in, they know wehaven't had an F&I show yet and
we couldn't think of anybodybetter to dig into this topic
than you.
Let me ask you, when it comesto finance and insurance, and
you taking this dealership from40 units to 800 some odd units,
(18:27):
what were some of the?
Can you give us an idea of someof the processes that you put
into place to achieve that?
Jim (18:34):
The idea that you can get deals bought is more important
than your skill at selling tothe customer.
It's more important to be ableto talk the banks into financing
these people with the leastconditions and the most wide
open financing.
That was my talent.
That's what I did best in myretail experience.
I invented something called theconsumer counseling interviewer
(18:56):
.
I believe if and I still teachat my F&I schools I want the F&I
manager to get in front of thedistressed credit customer early
.
What I see in dealerships todayis that they work these deals
to death, even after they'veidentified these people have
poor credit.
Why do you keep negotiatingwith somebody?
(19:16):
Once you realize they've gotpoor credit, they continue to
throw discounts and negotiatewith them.
No, I want the finance managerand I call him the financial
manager.
I don't want to be called thebusiness manager.
I met the business manager inthese dealerships.
That's a man or a woman in theback office with a bad
disposition.
I'm not the business manager,you know, I'm the financial
(19:37):
manager.
That sounds like Merrill Lynchor something.
You know.
I mean power.
Props are important and theability to get in front of the
customer and to do the consumercredit counseling interview,
because it's all about feelings.
Jackie Cooper was a friend ofmine.
Jackie said, Jim, it's aboutfeelings, and if you can explain
(19:59):
to people why the rate's higher, why we'd like them to buy
these protection options, you'remuch better off.
MC (20:07):
What was the process for getting somebody into this
credit or consumer creditcouncil interview?
I mean, was it Okay?
You just kind of.
They came in the door, theypiqued their interest, they were
intrigued and you said, hey,I've got some questions for you.
How did you lead into this?
Robert (20:23):
Is this after the workshop?
I'm sorry, Jim, Is this after?
Like they've they agreed tosome terms and submitted you
know?
Jim (20:36):
No, this is before they buy the car or after they bought
that.
Whenever we identify a badcredit, whatever stage of the
process, the sales manager saysoh, we got really bad credit
here, or even marginally badcredit.
I want the sales department tostop the deal.
I will go to the salesperson'soffice.
Hi folks, my name is JimZiegler.
I'm general financial managerhere at the dealership and I see
(20:56):
you're buying an automobile,and from these folks.
I never want the F&I manager toact like you're part of the
sales department.
I see you're buying a car fromthese folks and I just stop by
while you're working out thedeal to find out how do you
intend to pay for the car You'regoing to be financing with my
(21:16):
sources?
Do you intend to bring a checkin from your own bank, your own
credit union?
Are you going to pay cash?
Oh no, we're going to use yoursources.
Fantastic, I'm glad to haveyour business and I've got your
credit report right here and I'dlike to ask you a couple of
questions about your creditbefore I make a decision on the
approval of your loan.
Keeping control, but did youhear that last sentence before I
(21:39):
make a decision on the approvalof your loan.
Yeah, so many F&I managers.
Well, we'll see if I can getFord credit to approve it.
Now.
You gave away all your power.
MC (21:49):
Yeah, I love that.
Jim (21:51):
I approve the loan and I don't know about Canada, but in
the US the lender and the dealerare one and the same.
On the contract it's a holderin due course document.
So technically I am the lenderas the dealer until I get a bank
to buy that existing loan fromme.
So technically I do approve theloan based on the knowledge
(22:15):
that I have a lender I can sellit to.
So when I tell them I approvethe loan and I tell the people
listen, I'm approving your loan.
I want to tell you that inadvance, but I'm not the final
decision maker.
My associates at Ally Financialcan still turn you down.
They can overrule me.
I'm not the final decisionmaker.
My associates at Ally Financialcan still turn you down.
They can overrule me.
I'm not the final decisionmaker, I'm approving this loan.
(22:36):
And that puts the consumersquarely in my corner.
Oh, he's approving the loan,but he's got to get it past his
associates at Ally, myassociates at Ford Credit.
See, word tracking is why mycourse is so different.
The words you say to thecustomer are your toolbox, and I
(23:02):
have invented these very uniqueword tracks that are not taught
in any other F&I school, andthe results my people are
getting are incredible.
So that's the consumer creditcounseling interview, michael
and Robert, is for two things.
Number one, to get informationto get the deal approved,
because I'm going to end up onthe telephone with a lender,
even though I submit it throughdealer track or one of the
(23:24):
services, I'm going to end upprobably getting a condition or
a turndown and I'm going to endup on a telephone talking to the
credit supervisor at Ally orFord Credit or whatever Chrysler
.
So when I'm on the phone withthe supervisor, I need
ammunition, I need justification, extenuating circumstances, I
(23:45):
need some type of an argument tobuild up why this loan should
be approved.
I'm getting that from theconsumer and then I'm looking
for other credit they havethat's not in the bureau.
So that's what this interview'sabout.
But the other part of it ispositive intimidation.
Now that sounds like a doublenegative.
Yeah, okay, you can intimidatesomebody without scaring them or
(24:07):
humiliating them.
You can intimidate somebodywithout scaring them or
humiliating them Because today,you know, we used to call people
with distressed credit badnames Bogues, dregs, roaches,
credit criminals get me donebandits.
We're trying to be a littlemore socially acceptable.
Nowadays these people are creditchallenged, equity impaired.
(24:30):
You know trying to put a littlepositive.
Well, one thing about peoplewith distressed credit they know
who they are.
They've received mail about it.
They've seen tow trucksskulking around their driveways.
They know who they are.
You know not a big secret tothem.
They've got poor credit, so youknow.
But today we have BWA's andbogus with attitudes Yep, yep,
(24:54):
yep.
I mean they used to be humbleand have a little humility.
Now they think it's aconstitutional right not to pay
your bills and get another loan.
So you have to take thatattitude off of them.
And that's where the positiveintimidation comes in.
I'm approving your loan.
Behave yourself.
I didn't buy all that stuff youdidn't pay for.
You know, it was not my fault.
(25:14):
And the credit interview prettywell establishes that.
There's four things that thelender's looking for.
They all start with a, c.
They're looking for capacity,collateral creditability and
character.
And you've got to build thosethings when you're in this
interview.
I've got to find reasons thatthis loan should be approved.
MC (25:36):
So this could really be a massive gateway for dealerships
to sell more vehicles, becausethis credit counseling interview
helps them identify howqualified.
You know, not just from afinancial position but from just
you know, just from variousavenues, how qualified that
individual is to own thatvehicle and how reliable they'll
(25:59):
be in paying the bill and allthose sorts of things.
So it's really like you said,it's positive intimidation,
which I love, but it's also youkeeping control of this and not
handing over any amount ofcontrol to the consumer.
Jim (26:14):
When I say I approve the loan, they sit up and pay
attention.
MC (26:18):
They're all of a sudden on your side.
Jim (26:20):
Exactly.
And I say I'm approving yourloan, but I still have to review
my approval with my associatesat the bank.
Who could overrule me?
I'm not the final decisionmaker.
Help me to help you.
It's a whole philosophy thatgoes with it.
It's incredible how well thisworks.
What did they say during theinterview?
Well, I had a repossessionbecause I was in the hospital.
(26:43):
Oh, I understand.
Do I have your permission totell my associates at the bank
you'll be purchasing creditinsurance to protect this
investment.
Oh, my car kept breaking down.
Oh, I understand.
Do I have your permission totell my associates at the bank
you'll be purchasing a serviceagreement to protect this
vehicle?
Well, do I have to take that?
No, sir, it is not required,it's not mandatory, but I
(27:06):
strongly suggest you take it.
You see, I'm never going to lie, cheat, sneak or deceive to
sell finance.
There's a line and I will walkright up to it, but I will never
step over it.
MC (27:18):
Right, well, and I mean you know the way you're wording.
I mean your word tracksposition you from a point where
I mean I don't know about you,robert, but I don't get the
impression that you're walkingclose to the line.
You're just maintaining controlover the conversation and
helping them, in a much morepositive way, understand the
status of their situation.
(27:39):
It's like hey, you know youhave bad credit for legitimate
reason.
You know that you didn't paybills or you didn't whatever.
You neglected to pay bills.
You have really poor credit forwhatever the reason is, but
you're trying to buy a 40,000 ora $50,000 vehicle.
This method kind of puts thedealer back in the driver's seat
where, like you said, they'renot having to feel the need to
(28:01):
slash prices and offer discounts.
And let me see what can be done, or let me see if this will
work or if I can get youapproved.
You stay in the driver's seat,you manage the conversation, but
in a way that dispels thegrubby car guy myth, which is
that we're against you and we'rejust trying to take you.
It's like no, we'relegitimately trying to educate
you and we're doing that from aposition of power.
Jim (28:23):
Well see, that's the thing.
Everything about F&I is a powerposture the way your office
looks, the way you dress.
When I'm in a dealership andI'm doing F&I, I am always
suited up.
I mean, I'm wearing a tie, asuit and I don't care if the
rest of the dealership's wearingpolo shirts and shorts.
I am not one of them, I am abanker.
(28:45):
Bankers do not wear polo shirts, if you can follow.
I want to be different than thesales department.
I want to be totally divorcedfrom who they are.
I'm not one of them, I'msomething else.
And that when they come in myoffice there's no other
paperwork of visible.
They can't.
You know, my office looks likea banker's office Very important
(29:08):
.
It doesn't look like some thirdrate clerk with papers stacked
up everywhere.
And when you get a loan from abank you don't see another
customer's loan sitting on thetable, right, you know.
You look at some of thedealerships.
They put the F&I people in theworst, dingiest, dark ass
dungeon in the world.
I'm going to quit it.
(29:28):
When I went to Banner Ford inDecatur, georgia, my first big
F&I job back in the 80s, I wasdating my wife.
Then we hadn't gotten marriedyet and I was promoted to F&I
manager and I went in thatoffice and I couldn't believe.
And so her and I went in thereon a Sunday and it had this
(29:52):
black paneling on the wall withstaples in the paneling where
the guy had stapled stuff up, alittle piece of paper hanging
out the staples and there was abeam over the desk and he had
all these race sheets stapled onthe beam where the customer
could see it and one of one legof the desk was bricks and the
computer was filthy with fingergrease and the phone had ear
smudge on it.
You know, I got going that off.
Oh, and we had shag carpetingand they smoked inside the
(30:14):
building in those days I go inthat office.
Oh, and we had shag carpetingand they smoked inside the
building in those days.
And I'm going what?
Oh man, dingy, dark dungeon.
Well, the owner, brad Greer,came in on a Monday and he did a
double take when he walked bythe office Because that brown
(30:35):
black ugly paneling was in thedumpster and she and I had
wallpapered the office and mycarpet on the floor, my desk, my
blonde desk and my blondecabinetry behind it and living
room type lighting, a sofa andcomfortable chairs for the
consumer.
I had wall hanging paintings onthe wall.
He couldn't believe it.
He was so embarrassed he had toremodel his own office.
MC (30:56):
So there's the aspect of maintaining control from the
conversational standpoint, butalso conditioning their what do
you want to call it likeemotional response by changing
the atmosphere of your office?
Jim (31:12):
Everything in my life is power posture.
You know it's powerful, it'sintense, Everything about it.
You know I set up theatmosphere.
When a customer comes in, Igive the husband a pen.
I give the wife a pen Because Idon't want them locking eyes
when we're signing documents.
The show's up front here, yes,and I do a menu presentation and
(31:37):
I do a menu presentation and Ihave some word tracks that are
just incredible in the F&Ischools that I do, Like one of
the things F&I people bump into.
Robert, you've probably seenthis any number of times.
Oh, I don't want any of thatstuff.
I know you're selling stuffhere.
I don't want any of that.
My answer to that is no problem, sir, but I am required by law
(31:57):
to explain the coverages to youbecause you're going to have to
sign waivers, releases and holdharmless agreements on those
items that you decline and agreeto self-insure.
Self-insure scares the hell outof them.
When I tell them, people go I'mself-insuring.
Oh, absolutely.
You know, an automobile is15,000 high-tech component parts
(32:21):
and you're self-insuring on allof that if you don't get the
parts and labor agreement.
MC (32:28):
Okay.
So let me ask you this when yougo into a dealership and you
know they've brought you on to,I guess, fix things or set up
process and protocols to helpthem take their business to the
next level, what are the demands?
I know you mentioned that thefirst thing that you have to
absolutely have I think we weretalking about this in Boston is
(32:50):
you need the ability to firepeople.
Does that mean you're goinginto the dealership to make big
changes when they're needed?
Jim (32:57):
Well, not really, and I don't need the ability to fire
people.
I need the ability for thedealer to be willing to fire
people.
Got it?
You follow what I'm saying.
I need to have authority andI'll have managers some, and
usually I don't have thatproblem.
Very seldom the managers areusually totally on board with me
.
Generally, it's the salespersons that rebel against the
(33:21):
processes.
The managers welcome it becausethey see the profitability.
But once in a while I havemanagers.
Well, this is the way we liketo do it.
Well, you don't think theybrought me here because you're
doing a good job.
MC (33:36):
No doubt.
And what are?
Robert (33:47):
some of the, I guess, standard kind of typical issues
that you see when you go intodealerships In regards to
finance.
MC (33:50):
Yeah, just in regards to what we're talking about, when
you go into a dealership andyou're there to fix their F and
I process, help them, you know,improve what they're doing.
What, what's what are you justkind of seeing across the board
as something that just kind ofeach dealership has in common
that they could do right now toto improve.
Robert (34:04):
And on top, to add to that, jim, the role of the
finance.
Jim (34:10):
Well, you're almost answering the question, yeah.
Robert (34:14):
Because I think a lot of times that I've seen that, that
sometimes they play their roles.
Sometimes I feel like the.
I've seen where the deskmanager actually is submitting
for approvals and you know theone calling the bank, and then
in the end, the you know the F&Iguy.
He's just pretty much spinningpaperwork and at, you know,
(34:34):
selling product.
Well, see, that's not the rightstructure, right.
Jim (34:38):
That's wrong.
First of all, the F&I managerhas more skills, more schools,
more specialized training thananybody in the dealership,
except the technicians atFix-A-Cars.
Most sales managers learn theirjob by watching their
predecessor who was fired.
Yeah, fair enough, I've got oneof the very few sales manager
(35:00):
schools out there.
There's dozens of F&I schoolsand we are the highest per
square inch profit center in thedealership and most sales
managers are eating the lastbrown shriveled leaves off the
trees before they're sucked downin the tar pits.
Most customers today are buyingcars based on finance, not
based on price.
(35:21):
The payment is more importantthan the trade value or the
price.
So, to answer your question,michael, 99% of the time the
sales management is dominatingthe F&I management.
The sales management isdominating the F&I management.
And if I were to buy thedealership right now, I would
tell you all my managers wouldhave equal power, including the
(35:42):
ability to terminate asalesperson.
And I've had people say well,my F&I manager couldn't handle
that.
Well then, why did you hire awimp?
Excuse me, we're a profitcenter, we're not clerks.
You're not the sales manager'ssecretary.
You're certainly not answerableto salespersons.
You are a manager, and manageris a position of dignity,
(36:04):
authority and respect, not bethe sales manager's secretary or
clerk for the sales manager.
I've been to more schools, moreskills.
No, I won't put up with that.
And if I'm a dealer, I'm goingto have a general sales manager
and below that level it's justgoing to be managers, all with
(36:25):
equal authority andresponsibility.
Robert (36:27):
Now I think I might've gotten this from you.
I believe in some of yourtraining previously when I was
still in the dealership and Iwould always do my introduction
to the finance director orwhomever as like this is like
the top guy in the dealership.
This right, you know Mr and MrsCustomer here's.
You know Sam, he's the directorof finance here.
(36:48):
It's number one top guy here inthe store.
What is the?
You know what's the properturnover.
You know like when introducingto finance and then also like
how important is the salespersonkind of prepping, or you know
getting or talking about theproducts, like should the
(37:08):
salesperson be discussing andbacking up any of the products
that he's about to?
You know they're about toembark on once they go in into
the F&I office.
I don't want them to, you don'twant them to.
Jim (37:20):
I don't want them to even mention the existence of the
products.
They're not prepared to sellthem, because the consumer is
going to say well, how much isthat?
Now, the salesperson are goingto probably ballpark a figure
and kind of well, I don't needthat.
And then they get in the F&Ioffice and I start to present
the products.
Look, I already told that otherguy, I don't want that and so
you're selling against that.
MC (37:40):
It increases your margin of error.
Jim (37:42):
Exactly.
And, by the way, robert, I'veprobably already met these
people.
I tell F&I managers to meet thecustomer on the floor.
Do not meet them for the firsttime in combat.
Robert (37:53):
Okay, and then what's the best?
How do you suggest?
Jim (37:56):
that I go out there and I said hi, are you, Mr and Mrs
Jenkins, Hi, I'm Jim Ziegler.
I'm general financial managerhere at the dealership.
I'll be processing all yourlegal paperwork, making all your
financial disclosures andsigning waivers and releases,
and hold harmless documents onitems that you reject and agree
to self-insure.
It's going to take about 45minutes.
(38:16):
I'll have you in there in justa moment.
So I've already answered alltheir questions.
I tell F&I managers to have aone long winded sentence like
that, Because the customer hasthree questions who are you?
What are we going to do?
How long is this going to take?
So I answer all three of thosequestions in one sentence who am
(38:37):
I?
What am I going to do?
How long is this going to take?
So now they have no morequestions and I'll have you in
there in just a moment and bythat time all the salesperson
say hey, this Mr Ziegler, afinancial manager.
You met him earlier and veryseldom do I ever have a customer
in my office that I didn't comeout and meet first.
That does happen and I want avery short introduction if they
(39:01):
haven't met me.
This is Mr Ziegler, he's ourfinancial manager.
He'll make all your legaldisclosures and show you all
your financial options.
Bam gone.
Robert (39:10):
Thank you, mr Alpha Dog, we appreciate it.
MC (39:13):
Take care guys.
Hey, thanks for listening tothe Dealer Playbook Podcast.
If you enjoyed tuning in,please subscribe, share and hit
that like button.
You can also join us and theDPB community on social media.
Check back next week for a newDealer Playbook episode.
Thanks so much for joining.
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