March 13, 2025 • 33 mins
In this episode, my guest is Luke Lunkenheimer, the President of Paid to Persuade, and let’s just say… his road to success wasn’t exactly a straight line. Before becoming a persuasion expert and sitting at the table with guys like Tai Lopez and Brad Lea, Luke took a few, uh… detours but we’ll get to that.
But here’s the crazy part—his past is exactly what shaped him into the sales and leadership expert he is today. We’re talking about a guy who went from getting locked up to unlocking next-level sales strategies—and his journey will make you rethink everything you know about persuasion.
In this episode, we uncover:
- How Luke went from incarceration to industry leader (his story will leave you speechless)
- Why most salespeople get persuasion wrong—and how to fix it
- The BIG 3 questions that make closing effortless
- How trust and authenticity will outsell any gimmick
- The real reason people hesitate before buying—and how to break through it
This conversation is real, raw, and packed with insights that can transform the way you sell, lead, and do business. Plus, Luke drops some absolute mic-drop moments that will have you rethinking how you approach deals.
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This Episode's Sponsor
FlexDealer Need Better Quality Leads? FLX helps car dealers generate better quality leads through localized organic search and highly-targeted digital ads that convert. Not only that, they work tirelessly to ensure car dealers integrate marketing and operations for a robust and functional growth strategy.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
MC (00:00):
This episode is brought to you by FlexDealer.
What's up, auto industry?
I'm sitting down with my newpal.
He's our guest today, lukeLunkenheimer.
(00:21):
He's the president of Paid toPersuade.
He's a car guy.
He's been all over the place.
If you follow him on social,you're going to see him sitting
down with the Tai Lopez's, withthe Bradleys.
We're going to be talking aboutthe transformative power of
authentic persuasion.
Luke, thanks so much forjoining me on the Dealer
Playbook.
Luke (00:37):
Brother, I'm happy to be here.
This is a good car guy podcast.
Oh man, tell me if I'm wrong Isaw from criminal to car dealer.
Yeah, there was the early stageof criminal, then we graduated
to full-blown bank robber.
But yes, sir, I am onceincarcerated.
Now out of the rat race.
MC (00:55):
And bank like we're talking about the 1800s bank robbers.
Luke (00:59):
Well, you know, we didn't roll in on black Kawasaki ninjas
with the bandanas, it was moreof a.
It was the culmination of adecade of drug addiction and
debauchery.
And you know, high schoolathlete turned injured.
Athlete, injured, ego turned,you know, find a place to work.
For a while Family was in thecar business.
I went in the car business,discovered I had a talent for it
(01:21):
, did well, got the insurance.
Got the shoulder fix, want,wanted to go try play football
again.
Surgery didn't go well, gothooked to narcotic painkillers
and then, after about 10 yearsof living that life, we decided
some sort of intervention wasnecessary and the bank robbery
was the intervention.
MC (01:37):
Wow, you know it's funny, because I mean in the car
business, we tongue and cheektalk about how this is one of
the only industries, maybe theonly industry, that accepts from
all walks of life and whereI've heard this sentiment a lot,
especially in the last yearwhich is that the car business
has no ceiling, but it also hasno floor, Not even a basement
(01:58):
brother, Not even a basement.
So here you are now.
On the tail of all of that,You've accomplished some pretty
incredible things.
What are the pivot points foryou along the way where you
started picking up momentum?
Luke (02:12):
Yeah, man.
So it's a great question andthat's something I love to speak
on because there was really alot of that for me.
You know, when I was younger Icame from a very small town, a
very, you know, simplistic think.
You know even my father, who Ilove to death, who's a great car
guy, you know he never, henever pushed me to be anything
more than general manager.
You know I was the guy that waslike dad, we should own a Ford
(02:34):
franchise, like let's, let's owna few dealerships, let's give
Billy Fusillo a run for hismoney.
He was a big local dealer andyou know dad always said no man,
if the, if the crap hits thefan, it hits the owner.
You want to be, you know,management.
You want to be top tiermanagement.
You want the key to thebuilding.
You want the demo of yourchoice.
You want to be able to orderyour demo.
You know you want control.
You want to be over, you know,touching every portion or
(02:56):
component in the dealership, butyou just don't want to be the
top rung on the ladder becausethat's the most dangerous.
So that's kind of how I grew up.
Okay, you know, fly below theradar, become a manager.
80 to 120 grand a year companycar, that's it.
That's life made.
So it was beautiful.
When you know, before I turned20 years old, I achieved that.
You know, I, I, uh, mytrajectory was very strong in
(03:20):
the car business, but it alsogave me this feeling of, well,
what's next?
I mean, I did it, you know, andthat's not braggadocio, that's
just.
You know, I was in anenvironment where I excelled
quickly and once you hit whatyour, your, you know mentor at
that time has told you is thetop rung of the ladder, it's
kind of like, well, what am Isupposed to do with the next 60
or 70 years of my life, you know?
So what that did for me is itcaused me to, very early on,
(03:42):
have a misunderstanding of lifeand leadership and
entrepreneurship and all thesethings that I could aspire to.
So I was very lost for a while.
Kind of a big epiphany momentfor me was when I was working
for a guy selling automotiveaftermarket and he had.
He offered me an investment topartner with me in a car venture
and I asked him I'm like well,what are you like?
(04:03):
Why are you doing this?
You know, I'm a felon, I'm abank robber, I have this
terrible record.
I have this history with drugaddiction.
You fired me before why are youoffering me a couple hundred
grand to open a car dealership?
And he said you know that therewas certain things about me
that he saw that that couldpotentially be great.
And for the first time in mylife I had somebody not telling
me to suppress the flame butstoking the flame and telling me
(04:26):
I should be doing more andthere should be more runway
ahead of me.
So that was a big deal for me.
It was intervention fromsomebody else.
Another, I guess I would saysubstantial epiphany moment for
me was when I changeddealerships.
When I was starting to usedrugs.
I went, you know I was burningbridges.
Essentially, if we're going tobe, you know, forthcoming about
(04:47):
it, I was coming into adealership like a whirling
dervish, becoming the top guywithin, you know, one to two
months and the next thing, youknow sneaking away to the
bathroom, hiding in the back ofa trade-in.
You know, snorting pills, doingdrugs, and you know I would
burn a bridge.
I started working at anorganization in central New York
, a very well-known, veryreputable, very astute,
tight-knit, razor-sharporganization, not the type of
(05:10):
cowboy operation that I was usedto working for and I met
professionals.
I mean, these were guys thatdid the follow-up to a T.
They filled out every line ofthe four square.
They made sure they filled outthe first and the second address
and potentially the thirdaddress if there wasn't two
years worth of work history, youknow these were managers that
(05:35):
made them go out and broom snowoff of cars in cyclical fashion
to make sure everybody did theirduty.
That's what the car business wasto getting a very distinct
taste of a very differentecosystem where there was
professionalism and there wasreal hardworking, educated men
executing.
And then I think I realized atthat point that the car business
(06:02):
kind of like cocaine dinners,you know, crazy evenings,
hangovers and sell as many asyou can by the end of the week
and try not to get arrested.
That's what the car businesswas and that's kind of, you know
, that's kind of the way it hadbeen explained to me when I was
younger too.
You know dad was a partier, allhis buddies were partiers.
It was, you know, sell all week, work hard and party on the
(06:30):
weekends.
But that was my first taste ofit could be something else and
there were people out theredoing it a very different way.
MC (06:33):
Um, so those were three very significant moments for me in
kind of the come up, you knowwhat.
What stands out to me, you know, is that person who gives you
permission to give yourselfpermission.
You know like no, actually it'sokay to want more.
It's okay to want more.
It's not okay to think youshould just expect more without
(06:55):
putting in the work, like which,which to me, as you're talking,
I'm like those are two verydifferent things.
Your pivot point is like givingyourself permission permission,
but it's also the fact that youwere willing to put in the work
.
And then the other thing thatstands out to me is the
acknowledgement that a mentorcan remain considered a mentor,
(07:16):
even though they may only getyou to a certain place before
you need another mentor.
You know, like I think aboutthat for my dad.
I'm like my dad the lessons hetaught me as an entrepreneur,
he's still a mentor.
It's not an if this, then thathe can remain a mentor in those
things he taught me, while Icontinue to bring on other
(07:38):
mentors who can teach me from adifferent angle, and that stands
out to me as well, thisacknowledgement that you brought
up of you know I learned what Ilearned from him, but now
here's a new mentor that's alsohelping me take things to
another level.
Luke (07:54):
I couldn't agree with you more, brother, and I think that
not only is that good that youspotted that out, I think people
need to understand that that'snecessary, right?
Because you know, for instance,when you're younger you's not
you cannot extract all the valuethat a high level mentor has to
give.
For instance, if Jeff Bezosentered my life at 18 years old,
I would not be able to receivethe frequency that he was
(08:17):
putting out.
You know what I mean.
I think we have tears.
It's like tiramisu.
There's layers, and you know,as a young kid, you know my dad
was a great mentor.
He was able to put it inCrayola crayons for me, and
that's not to imply that hewasn't an educated guy, it's
just.
You know, when you're raised bywolves, you behave like a wolf,
and you know I was a verytenacious young kid.
(08:39):
I got in a lot of trouble, Iwas kind of a scrapper, and so
that type of hard nosed school,of hard knocks type education
was very fitting for me and Ireceived it well.
But as I became more of arefined individual and as I
discovered different you knowdifferent ponds to leap to and
places to educate myself as Igrew well, then there's you know
(09:01):
, there's a different need therethat comes to the surface and I
think people enter your livesat the moments they're supposed
to enter them.
And I think we emit energy.
I mean, it's a reality.
You know, I'm not supereducated on it, but enough to
know that there's certainly afrequency that we emit.
And I think that when we emitthat energy, you know, certain
(09:21):
people decide to interact withit.
For instance, one of the mentorsthat I have now.
His name is Dave Shiroff.
He's a CEO several times over,of many successful companies and
very large exits.
He's currently, by choice, alawyer and, I believe, a CTO of
a large mattress company.
And, shout out, dave Shiroff,incredible human being.
(09:44):
This is a guy that when I workedfor him, I was employed by him
he used to call me as MichaelJordan.
He says you know, I call youMichael Jordan.
I said why he goes?
Because I have to put you inthe damn game, because you win
every single time.
He says, but none of the otherplayers can stand to play with
you.
You're so volatile.
So, you know, we went from thatrelationship to you know.
(10:04):
Now, these days, we meet acouple of times a month,
sometimes once a month for aZoom call or lunch when he's in
town and we have incredibly highlevel entrepreneurial
conversations and he's elevatingme and helping me get to a
plane that I I wouldn't get towithout that influence.
So, to your point, I think thatI don't think you seek a mentor
.
I think you can and I thinkit's effective to do so, but I
(10:26):
think, if you understand that,you just simply push out into
the atmosphere and what isnecessary will come to you, as
long as your intentions are pureand as long as you're, I think
the most important thing to meis as long as you're willing to
provide reciprocal value.
If you're just looking to getfrom somebody, you're going to
attract the wrong kind of energy.
MC (10:49):
But if you're willing to give to somebody to receive in
return, that's where a lot ofgood relationships start.
Oh well, what a perfect segueinto what I wanted to ask you.
You know, in our companieswe've got a software company and
a marketing agency, and one ofour core values is BRT build
relationships of trust and whatyou're talking about here really
resonates with me, because whenI realized that the focus
(11:15):
should not be the sale, itshould be the building of the
trusting relationship, it's likethat's when the sales actually
started happening more free flowthan ever.
You talk about authenticpersuasion, so I want to tie
this all together and first justget your take on.
What do you mean by authenticpersuasion?
Luke (11:36):
That's a great question and I love to speak on it.
So in Paid to Persuade, we sayauthenticity sells and
confidence closes, and I willtake that with me to the grave.
There's certain things thatchange over time.
There's certain things thatchange over time.
There's some things that remaintimeless.
That is one of the things thatwill remain timeless.
And the question is why?
What is authentic persuasion?
Well, if you were to come lookat a vehicle and you test drove
(12:00):
the vehicle and you said hey,luke, man, that seems like a
real badass truck.
Would you buy that truck?
If you wouldn't buy that truck,most salespeople go are you
kidding me, man?
That's a sweet truck.
Hell yeah, I'd buy that truck.
I just I can't afford a trucklike that.
That's why I drive a Jeep GrandCherokee.
Okay, that's inauthenticpersuasion.
That's just trying to BSsomebody to get a deal.
Right Now, what would I trainyou to say?
(12:20):
Or what would I train you tosay?
Or what would I help you orassist you into learning to say?
I would say yeah, you know,bill, honestly, I wouldn't, I
would, I wouldn't buy that truck.
Or if you're asking if I wouldbuy that truck, the answer would
be no.
And then silence and that's veryeffective because that shows
that you're being completelyauthentic.
Well, why not?
Well, I mean, brother, franklyI don't tow anything.
(12:41):
I don't live in an area where Iwould warrant four-wheel drive.
My commute's incredibly shortand I'm not a big guy, so I
really don't have need for atruck.
But if you're asking me if whatI did on a daily basis
facilitated the need for thattruck or I was in the same
position as you, I don't thinkthere's a better vehicle you can
buy, frankly.
But I'm not going to lie to youand say I'd buy it, because
(13:02):
that would just be a lie.
But is it a hell of a truck?
It's a hell of a truck.
What happens when youcommunicate that authentically?
What people think?
What superficial salespeople,rookie salespeople and, quite
frankly, superficial saletrainers not to throw darts, but
there's a lot of them out therethey're going to teach you to
always maintain an agreementstate with the customer.
Like, no matter what, make sureyou maintain agreement.
(13:23):
Well, if you have to tell a lieto maintain agreement, the lack
of authenticity, the deficit ofauthenticity, far negates the
agreement state, meaning it isby far the greater of the two
evils.
Okay, to tell somebody thetruth.
Even if it doesn't follow anagreement state with a line of
questioning or with the saleflow, it's perfectly okay,
(13:44):
because your customer isn'tthere thinking that every answer
is going to be yes, and that'swhat most salespeople don't
understand.
It's so sad because it's sovery simple and it's so much
easier to do it that way.
Right, if you just be honestwith your customer, you're going
to find your conversationalflow goes so much better.
And your customer is notexpecting to walk through the
door and hear every single thingthey want to hear.
They're on a discovery mission.
When your customer is notexpecting to walk through the
(14:05):
door and hear every single thingthey want to hear, they're on a
discovery mission.
When your customer comes intoyour dealership or engages with
you about a product or service,they're on a discovery mission.
They have a preconceived notionof what your product or service
is going to afford them.
They're there to discover iftheir preconceived notion is
correct and, if it's correct, ifthey want to engage and if they
want to engage, if it'saffordable to do so.
(14:27):
So if there's a few no's in thepot on the way there, their
human being is going to beperfectly okay with that.
MC (14:36):
Hey, does your marketing agency suck?
Listen, before we hop back intothis episode.
I know you know me as the hostof the Dealer Playbook, but did
you also know that I'm the CEOof flex dealer, an agency that's
helping dealers capture betterquality leads from local SEO and
hyper targeted ads that convert.
So if you want to sell morecars and finally have a partner
that's in it with you thatdoesn't suck Visit flex
(14:58):
dealercom.
Let's hop back into thisepisode.
I love.
I love how you put it.
I mean unless, of course,you're me I'm just a lay down
dude, I just walk in and I go.
That.
Luke (15:11):
That means you're a good salesperson, brother.
All good salespeople are laydowns.
MC (15:15):
That's true.
I just don't want to put upwith the hassle.
I'm like, give it to me, putthe full warranty, like, just
like-.
Luke (15:20):
Make a few bucks, get me out of here in less than two
hours.
Yeah, exactly, time is morevaluable to you that's, uh, I
would agree with you.
MC (15:28):
Do you think it though it's?
You know, I'll have to admit Ifeel kind of sheepish in
admitting this.
When I was looking through, aswe were prepping for this
conversation, and you had youhad written focus on building
trust, I actually found myself,after all these years selling
and building businesses andtalking about it, on the show
(15:51):
that the operation, theoperative word here, is not
build and it's not trust, it'sactually focus.
And it hit me for the firsttime and and I feel sheepish now
as a 40 something year old dudegoing wait a minute how come
this is hitting, striking me insuch a different way?
What do you recommend for thefrontline guys or the managers
(16:15):
where it's all about puttinganother number up on the board,
where they're just focused onget them in, get them in, get
them in, get them in Through thelens of they're there on a
discovery mission.
Help those listening shifttheir focus from get them in or
(16:38):
put another number up on theboard to the human being that's
standing right in front of them.
Luke (16:45):
That's a great question.
So first you got to understandthat 90% of customers that visit
a brick and mortarestablishment have made a buying
decision already.
They're not.
When I say made a buyingdecision already, I don't mean
they've chosen Wolfsburg editionplaid seats with, you know,
heated tech package.
I'm saying they've made thedecision they're going to engage
(17:06):
and buy an automobile orwhatever it else is that you're
selling.
When they visit yourestablishment and this is for
you know, tangible assets at abrick and mortar establishment
they're there and your job isnot to go sell them something
and that's where people get itso wrong man.
Your job is not to go out andpush words down their throat and
push value down their throatand push warranty and service
(17:28):
and sell the house.
You don't really need to sellanything.
What you need to do is you needto go on a discovery mission.
You don't really need to sellanything.
What you need to do is you needto go on a discovery mission
and the focus needs to be how doI make this process as seamless
and cohesive for this customeras humanly possible?
You look at really, really highlevel entrepreneurs and this is
where I think salespeople dothem, especially in the car
(17:51):
business, brother, they dothemselves a terrible injustice.
They say, well, we're just carsales, brother.
They do themselves a terribleinjustice.
They say, well, we're just carsalespeople.
This is just car sales.
And when I say something like,well, compare what you're doing
to somebody like Richard Bransonor Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos dude
, we're just car salespeople.
Okay, Well, elon Musk is justsending rockets to the moon and
(18:12):
Jeff Bezos is just selling papercups and paper towels to a
billion people on Amazon.
You talk to a guy like JeffBezos and he'll tell you listen,
if you want to remainsuccessful, remain trying to
satisfy your customer.
Remain facilitating the wants,the needs, the desires of your
customer.
Make buying easy for them.
Okay, so your focus in sales isnot how do I shove words down
(18:36):
their throat, how do I use myword tracks to convince them?
How do I get them nodding andyesing and logic trap them into
a?
Yes, it's very simple and it's.
This is where it ties into.
You know, a little shamelessplug here for P2P, we have
something that we call the bigthree framework, the big three
questions.
Okay, now, this is for tangibleassets and, frankly, very
(18:56):
relative to the car business.
Okay, three things, not threequestions, not three word tracks
, just three things you got tosolve for and your sale is 80%
done.
Number one what brought you heretoday?
Why are you here?
Well, they're here shopping fora car.
No, I get it, mr Customer, butmost people drive by the
dealership.
They don't pull in.
You chose to pull in today.
(19:16):
Why did you pull in?
Well, because I want to look attrucks.
I hear you, mr Customer,everybody that comes here
looking at trucks wants to lookat trucks.
But you drove here, you today,today, for a particular reason.
Why?
Well, I'm about 1,600 miles,I'm going to be out of warranty
on my pickup truck and I like tobe.
Oh look, golden nugget.
Now we know there's some urgency, right.
And when you go on this missionof discovery and compassionate
(19:38):
interrogation, you unearthliterally everything that you
need to create anon-objectionable close.
So, as a school or, excuse me,as a student of the car business
, okay, the things that we wantto discover do they have a
trade-in?
Do they owe money on thetrade-in?
Why did they come today?
Is there some urgency?
Are they on their lunch break?
And this is where thisframework is incredibly
(19:59):
effective.
First thing what brought youhere today?
This is what we need to solvefor before we even show them a
vehicle.
Number two what is your buyingpower?
Not?
Do you have good credit?
It's very simply.
Do you want to leverage thepower of a bank and pay over
time?
You know, and it's all in theverbiage Do you want to leverage
the power of a bank and payover time, or is this something
that you like to take care ofall at once?
It's very, very simple.
(20:20):
And when you can do thatconversationally and this is
what people don't understand thepeople that are listening a lot
of listeners right now areprobably going oh well, if in
say to you hey, man, you'relooking for a pickup truck,
awesome, okay, well, let's gotake a look at a few.
I noticed that you drove apickup truck here.
(20:41):
You're going to replace thatone.
Yeah, I'm going to replace thisone.
Okay, cool, when you comes off,very easy, very conversational.
That's what's selling it, not.
How smooth can you say the wordtrack, how conversational can
you be in extracting information?
(21:01):
And then the third thing, man,is very simply what did you hope
to accomplish today?
And I don't mean word track,what did you hope to accomplish
today?
I mean so listen, bill, youknow I want to be as efficient
with your time as possible.
Sounds like you're going to behere for a few minutes.
What can I do in that timeframe to make this process as
seamless as possible for you andget you exactly what you came
for as quickly as possible?
Well, I wanted to drive one andmaybe see what some numbers
(21:24):
were on my trade-in.
No problem, I can get that donefor you.
If I get that done for you, arewe going to consider today a
win?
Yes, you with that.
Now the customer goes from aframe of well, I'm here being
sold a vehicle to well, you know, I'm sure the pitch is going to
come at some point, but rightnow it looks like he's just
trying to help me walk along thepath and when the guard remains
down and it remainsconversational, the selling is a
hell of a lot of you yeah, Ilove it too.
MC (21:45):
I love that you even call out the the naysayers, um,
because often those naysayersare going to say, well, no, like
you can't just say that, whatare we supposed to do next?
And what you're supposed to donext is learn how to be a good
human being.
Like.
Nobody can teach you that part,nobody can teach you the
mechanics of being a good humanbeing.
Luke (22:04):
You just have to, like, have that moral compass you know
, what's incredible about whatyou're saying is if people could
simply just buy in.
Just yeah, the same way thatthey believe that the gossip
they read about the Hollywoodactors is true, the same reason
they believe the nonsense thatis spread with political agenda.
They just buy into it.
If they could have that samefaith and buy into what you just
(22:25):
said and, for 60 days, just sayI'm just going to be a good
person, I'm going to genuinelycare about my customer and what
they're trying to accomplish andI'm going to ask logical,
conversational questions.
I'm going to genuinely careabout my customer and what
they're trying to accomplish andI'm going to ask logical,
conversational questions.
I get salespeople that willcome up and you know, when I'm
doing like a, like a, like aguest training, or I'll do like
a sale with a team, I get thesalespeople that come and
they're like yeah, well, youknow, the guy wants to be under
500 bucks a month, that guythat's got to sleep on it, who
(22:47):
doesn't exist, by the way and Igo down to my TO of the deal and
I say hey, brother, just out ofcuriosity, I mean when I need
to make a sandwich and I'mhungry and I got four bucks in
my pocket and I walk intoWalmart, I walk out with bread,
(23:08):
so you wanted to be under 500,you wanted to spend 2, just
realistically, what you're notjust not here for a truck today.
Well, no, I do need a truck.
Well, let me ask you thisquestion, that the question to a
salesperson is what do you wantto know?
Well, I want to know whythey're not buying.
When they said, if we did thesethings, they would buy.
Well, wait a minute, did theysay they would buy if you did
those things?
Or did they say that's whatthey're looking to accomplish?
(23:30):
Well, yeah, he told me that'swhere he wanted to be.
But did you ask him, if I doall these things Very
commonsensical, if I do allthese things, are you in fact
going to sign on a dotted lineand buy a vehicle today?
Well, no, not today.
Oh, ok, why?
And the whole point is thatcomes in the compassionate
interrogation process andthere's a you know there's
additional components to itwhere, if they, if you don't get
what you want, becauseeverybody's listening right now
(23:52):
saying, well, luke, they're notalways going to say the things
you want them to say in thebeginning of the conversation.
No, kidding.
That's why there'scontingencies for everything.
We have time gates, which is aprocess that we use to take a
human being who says, no, I'mnot going to do it today, and
give them a few options thatsave them a tremendous amount of
money.
That are implied.
They're not actual price points, they're not actual deals, it's
(24:12):
just an implied statement.
Hey, if this certain situationwere to transpire today, do you
think you'd possibly engage?
Well, if that happened, thenyeah, I would.
And just to reiterate so, ifthis and this were true, you
actually would do somethingtoday.
No, I would, even though theway, not that, if it was like
that, I would do it.
Now you have intent.
This individual can buy withoutthe third party.
(24:33):
And once you get and what peopledon't realize is when you just
get the customer to admit thosethings at the outset of the
conversation, using inferredsituations, they're in their
head.
They've now released thatburden, they've now allowed
themselves to detach themselvesfrom that objection and it will
never rear its head during therest of the sale.
And that's what a lot of peopledon't get, man.
(24:53):
And the funniest part about allof it is it just comes from
being conversational.
Ask the thing you want to knowin a respectful, compassionate
way.
Hey man, you know I sell carsand I make a commission when I
sell them.
You told me boom, boom and boom, or where you wanted to be
we're at boom, boom and boom,but you're not fine.
Just out of curiosity, you know, is today just not the day.
(25:13):
Well, no man, you guys justdon't have a blue one, and you'd
be amazed how quickly peoplewill tell you exactly what you
need to know when you're justconversational and honest with
them.
And I think that's the pointyou're making.
MC (25:24):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I couldn't agree more.
It's funny that when you justshow genuine care and concern
for somebody else, I love howyou said release that burden
Because it is.
Maybe they don't even classifywhat they're feeling as a burden
, but when they let go of it itsure feels like a release.
Luke (25:44):
You want to know what one of the most effective ways to
get your customer to advance thesale is.
Tell them they're in no dangerof buying anything.
Mr Customer, it seems like thisis a little bit stressful for
you and I've been asking somepretty significant questions.
This is an expensive vehicle.
I get it.
Let me ask you a question howabout we just not put you in any
(26:04):
danger of buying anything today?
Can I take the salesman shoesoff?
Can I just show you some stuff,give you a card with some
numbers on it and send you outthe door today with some stuff
to think about?
Would that be okay with you?
Yeah, honestly, that'd be great, awesome.
Let's do it that way.
Let's just proceed.
You're in no danger of buyinganything.
I'm the consultant who's justgiving you information.
(26:24):
The only thing I ask if I dothat for you, when it comes time
to actually buy something,would you be willing to give me
a shot at your business?
Oh, I absolutely would.
Okay, well, now here's thenefarious part.
Guess what?
You're still going to try tosell them something today, but
what you've done is you'vereleased them completely.
Ok.
If you walk into the hospital,the doctor says you know what
(26:45):
I'm going to wave a magic wandand there's no way you're going
to catch any germs, there's noway anybody's going to cough on
you, there's no way you're goingto slip and fall and there's no
way anybody's going to give youa hard time from the psych ward
.
But if you, just if they wereto say that to you all of a
sudden, your waltz through thehospital is far more comfortable
and right.
What most people don't realizeis when you and this is again
(27:05):
the naysayers they'll say well,dude, if you say that, well,
then they're not going to buyanything.
And then it's like okay, well,let me ask you a question.
If I said to you, no matterwhat I say, say no.
Okay, the sky is blue.
No, the grass is green.
No, I'm handsome.
No, take this check for $10.7million.
(27:27):
Oh look, all of a sudden thegame has changed.
Right, it doesn't matter whatthe precursor is.
When the value propositionexceeds the ask, you're going to
engage.
It's just a tool to get yourcustomer to relieve themselves
of the anxiety and allow you allthe way in, and it's incredibly
effective.
As we wind down here, I want totry themselves of the anxiety
and allow you all the way in andit's incredibly effective.
MC (27:42):
As we wind down here, I want to try and bring this together,
and I can't help but thinkabout what limiting beliefs we
generally harbor or hang on tothat are preventing us from
doing the things that you'resaying.
Luke (27:58):
Well, the first one is sales has been purported to be
this thing for, you know, eversince Henry Ford put the crank
in the first Model T.
We think we're supposed toshake a hand, build rapport,
showcase a product, trial, closeand then overcome objections.
Every sales training inexistence I don't care what one
it is, what label it is, whatbrand it is If you unpackage the
(28:21):
training and you actually lookat it, that's what you have.
Now there's a million differentthings they call it, but it all
starts with meet and greet,light conversation, qualifying,
building rapport, then showcasethe product to service, know
your product, then closewhatever form of close or trial
close that they teach you andthen overcome objections.
(28:43):
I mean, let's be honest, whatis every video on social media
that's getting a million viewsfrom the, the youtube famous
sales trainers of the world?
What does it do?
It's a logic loop thatovercomes one objection and
returns you into the salesconversation.
Well, that's not teaching youhow to sell.
That's teaching you a cutething to say when somebody says
they want to talk to their wifeRight, when we completely
(29:06):
re-understand what selling is,we can be far more effective,
and the limiting belief is thatthat is the process Meet the
customer, meet and greet,showcase the product, trial.
Close overcome objections.
The overcoming of objectionsshould never take place.
Close overcome objections.
The overcoming of objectionsshould never take place.
It should be the elimination ofobjections at the outset of the
conversation.
(29:26):
Now, if you're a brand newsalesperson, you've never sold a
car in your life is a wordtrack going to be helpful?
Of course it is.
When you're nervous, you'resocially awkward, you don't know
the product, is it helpful to?
Hey, mr Customer, my name isBill.
Welcome to ABC Motors.
Is there anything I can helpyou with today?
Sure, okay, and then, hey, so Icould get you all the
information you need regardingyour new pickup truck.
(29:47):
Do you mind if I ask you a fewquick questions and a quick
benefit request to help get theminside?
These things are helpful, ofcourse, okay, but the limiting
belief is that has to showcasethe product and then, once they
look at it, they test drive it,they fall in love with it, then
ask them to buy.
Trial close hey, mr Smith, gopark it in the sold row.
There's a nice spot right there.
Well, wait, I'm not ready to dothat quite yet.
(30:08):
Well, why is that?
You said you loved it and yousaid your wife didn't need it
and all these things.
And then we're playing wordgames and what are we and forth
with the customer and weimmediately go into an
adversarial arrangement.
These are the same guys thattell you to stay in an agreement
state with your customer, butthey teach you logic cues, logic
traps and word tracks thatmaintain an argumentative state
(30:29):
with the customer.
Objections should be handled atthe outset of the conversation
and there's a way to do it, andthat, my friend, is why I exist.
That is what paid to persuade.
It is a completely differentprocess of selling that includes
a compassionate interrogationprocess and a framework that
gets it all done at thebeginning.
Literally, the only thing thatyour customer can object to is
(30:52):
the product, meaning Chevy has athree-year 36,000-mile warranty
.
This has a three-year 36 withlimited roadside.
I mean, I'm talking the minutiaeof objections that, as long as
you know your product, you knoware usually just negotiating
points.
They're not deal breakers,they're just somebody looking
for a few bucks off.
If somebody wants to buysomething, they're going to buy
(31:13):
it.
And as far as the limitingbeliefs go, man, any deal that
has intent and money can beclosed.
Very simply, you just have toguide the customer where they
already want to go.
Too many salespeople thinktheir job is to handcuff the
customer and bring them wherethey need them to be.
You're never going to bringsomebody somewhere they don't
(31:34):
already want to go.
Ask yourself if you walked intoMacy's and you needed a black
sweater to match your motorcycle, and somebody goes dude.
I'm telling you, we got a greatdeal on a pink negligee.
Are you walking out of therewith a pink negligee?
And the answer is of course not.
Okay.
MC (31:49):
But if I am, then I'm going and selling my motorcycle
exactly.
Luke (31:53):
Or getting a different kind of motorcycle, maybe.
But the the question then,because, well, could I maybe be
upgraded to a black crew neckleather jacket from Nautica?
Maybe I could, yeah, and Imight be compelled to do the
Macy's card and get the rewardsand put it on a credit account.
I could be compelled to extendmy spend and do those things,
(32:15):
but my fundamental goal is notgoing to change, and when a
salesperson understands you'renever going to get somebody to
engage in a purchase thatthey're not already planning on
engaging in your life becomes alot easier when you move with
the grain.
So that's what I would saywould be my two hardest points
as far as limiting beliefs.
MC (32:31):
Wow, well, I've taken a lot of notes here.
I love this conversation,definitely love to have you back
on the show in the future.
We got to pick up thisconversation where we left off
for now.
How can those listening andwatching connect with you?
Luke (32:46):
Yeah, absolutely.
I appreciate that man and I'dlove to come back.
It's a great show.
I could talk cars all day.
Luke Lunk L-U-K-E-L-U-N-K.
At Luke Lunk on your Instagram,your TikTok, your Facebook,
youtube is going to be paid thenumber to persuade and then if
they're interested in gettingsome sales training, if they're
in the car business or any typeof sales, and they want to look
us up and have a conversationabout sales training, it's paid
(33:08):
the number to persuadecom.
MC (33:11):
There you have it, man.
Thanks so much for joining meon the dealer playbook podcast.
Thank you, brother.
Hey, thanks for listening tothe dealer playbook podcast.
If you enjoyed tuning in,please subscribe, share and hit
that like button.
You can also join us and theDPB community on social media.
Check back next week for a newDealer Playbook episode.
Thanks so much for joining.
This episode is brought to you by FlexDealer.
What's up, auto industry?
I'm sitting down with my newpal.
He's our guest today, lukeLunkenheimer.
(00:21):
He's the president of Paid toPersuade.
He's a car guy.
He's been all over the place.
If you follow him on social,you're going to see him sitting
down with the Tai Lopez's, withthe Bradleys.
We're going to be talking aboutthe transformative power of
authentic persuasion.
Luke, thanks so much forjoining me on the Dealer
Playbook.
Luke (00:37):
Brother, I'm happy to be here.
This is a good car guy podcast.
Oh man, tell me if I'm wrong Isaw from criminal to car dealer.
Yeah, there was the early stageof criminal, then we graduated
to full-blown bank robber.
But yes, sir, I am onceincarcerated.
Now out of the rat race.
MC (00:55):
And bank like we're talking about the 1800s bank robbers.
Luke (00:59):
Well, you know, we didn't roll in on black Kawasaki ninjas
with the bandanas, it was moreof a.
It was the culmination of adecade of drug addiction and
debauchery.
And you know, high schoolathlete turned injured.
Athlete, injured, ego turned,you know, find a place to work.
For a while Family was in thecar business.
I went in the car business,discovered I had a talent for it
(01:21):
, did well, got the insurance.
Got the shoulder fix, want,wanted to go try play football
again.
Surgery didn't go well, gothooked to narcotic painkillers
and then, after about 10 yearsof living that life, we decided
some sort of intervention wasnecessary and the bank robbery
was the intervention.
MC (01:37):
Wow, you know it's funny, because I mean in the car
business, we tongue and cheektalk about how this is one of
the only industries, maybe theonly industry, that accepts from
all walks of life and whereI've heard this sentiment a lot,
especially in the last yearwhich is that the car business
has no ceiling, but it also hasno floor, Not even a basement
(01:58):
brother, Not even a basement.
So here you are now.
On the tail of all of that,You've accomplished some pretty
incredible things.
What are the pivot points foryou along the way where you
started picking up momentum?
Luke (02:12):
Yeah, man.
So it's a great question andthat's something I love to speak
on because there was really alot of that for me.
You know, when I was younger Icame from a very small town, a
very, you know, simplistic think.
You know even my father, who Ilove to death, who's a great car
guy, you know he never, henever pushed me to be anything
more than general manager.
You know I was the guy that waslike dad, we should own a Ford
(02:34):
franchise, like let's, let's owna few dealerships, let's give
Billy Fusillo a run for hismoney.
He was a big local dealer andyou know dad always said no man,
if the, if the crap hits thefan, it hits the owner.
You want to be, you know,management.
You want to be top tiermanagement.
You want the key to thebuilding.
You want the demo of yourchoice.
You want to be able to orderyour demo.
You know you want control.
You want to be over, you know,touching every portion or
(02:56):
component in the dealership, butyou just don't want to be the
top rung on the ladder becausethat's the most dangerous.
So that's kind of how I grew up.
Okay, you know, fly below theradar, become a manager.
80 to 120 grand a year companycar, that's it.
That's life made.
So it was beautiful.
When you know, before I turned20 years old, I achieved that.
You know, I, I, uh, mytrajectory was very strong in
(03:20):
the car business, but it alsogave me this feeling of, well,
what's next?
I mean, I did it, you know, andthat's not braggadocio, that's
just.
You know, I was in anenvironment where I excelled
quickly and once you hit whatyour, your, you know mentor at
that time has told you is thetop rung of the ladder, it's
kind of like, well, what am Isupposed to do with the next 60
or 70 years of my life, you know?
So what that did for me is itcaused me to, very early on,
(03:42):
have a misunderstanding of lifeand leadership and
entrepreneurship and all thesethings that I could aspire to.
So I was very lost for a while.
Kind of a big epiphany momentfor me was when I was working
for a guy selling automotiveaftermarket and he had.
He offered me an investment topartner with me in a car venture
and I asked him I'm like well,what are you like?
(04:03):
Why are you doing this?
You know, I'm a felon, I'm abank robber, I have this
terrible record.
I have this history with drugaddiction.
You fired me before why are youoffering me a couple hundred
grand to open a car dealership?
And he said you know that therewas certain things about me
that he saw that that couldpotentially be great.
And for the first time in mylife I had somebody not telling
me to suppress the flame butstoking the flame and telling me
(04:26):
I should be doing more andthere should be more runway
ahead of me.
So that was a big deal for me.
It was intervention fromsomebody else.
Another, I guess I would saysubstantial epiphany moment for
me was when I changeddealerships.
When I was starting to usedrugs.
I went, you know I was burningbridges.
Essentially, if we're going tobe, you know, forthcoming about
(04:47):
it, I was coming into adealership like a whirling
dervish, becoming the top guywithin, you know, one to two
months and the next thing, youknow sneaking away to the
bathroom, hiding in the back ofa trade-in.
You know, snorting pills, doingdrugs, and you know I would
burn a bridge.
I started working at anorganization in central New York
, a very well-known, veryreputable, very astute,
tight-knit, razor-sharporganization, not the type of
(05:10):
cowboy operation that I was usedto working for and I met
professionals.
I mean, these were guys thatdid the follow-up to a T.
They filled out every line ofthe four square.
They made sure they filled outthe first and the second address
and potentially the thirdaddress if there wasn't two
years worth of work history, youknow these were managers that
(05:35):
made them go out and broom snowoff of cars in cyclical fashion
to make sure everybody did theirduty.
That's what the car business wasto getting a very distinct
taste of a very differentecosystem where there was
professionalism and there wasreal hardworking, educated men
executing.
And then I think I realized atthat point that the car business
(06:02):
kind of like cocaine dinners,you know, crazy evenings,
hangovers and sell as many asyou can by the end of the week
and try not to get arrested.
That's what the car businesswas and that's kind of, you know
, that's kind of the way it hadbeen explained to me when I was
younger too.
You know dad was a partier, allhis buddies were partiers.
It was, you know, sell all week, work hard and party on the
(06:30):
weekends.
But that was my first taste ofit could be something else and
there were people out theredoing it a very different way.
MC (06:33):
Um, so those were three very significant moments for me in
kind of the come up, you knowwhat.
What stands out to me, you know, is that person who gives you
permission to give yourselfpermission.
You know like no, actually it'sokay to want more.
It's okay to want more.
It's not okay to think youshould just expect more without
(06:55):
putting in the work, like which,which to me, as you're talking,
I'm like those are two verydifferent things.
Your pivot point is like givingyourself permission permission,
but it's also the fact that youwere willing to put in the work
.
And then the other thing thatstands out to me is the
acknowledgement that a mentorcan remain considered a mentor,
(07:16):
even though they may only getyou to a certain place before
you need another mentor.
You know, like I think aboutthat for my dad.
I'm like my dad the lessons hetaught me as an entrepreneur,
he's still a mentor.
It's not an if this, then thathe can remain a mentor in those
things he taught me, while Icontinue to bring on other
(07:38):
mentors who can teach me from adifferent angle, and that stands
out to me as well, thisacknowledgement that you brought
up of you know I learned what Ilearned from him, but now
here's a new mentor that's alsohelping me take things to
another level.
Luke (07:54):
I couldn't agree with you more, brother, and I think that
not only is that good that youspotted that out, I think people
need to understand that that'snecessary, right?
Because you know, for instance,when you're younger you's not
you cannot extract all the valuethat a high level mentor has to
give.
For instance, if Jeff Bezosentered my life at 18 years old,
I would not be able to receivethe frequency that he was
(08:17):
putting out.
You know what I mean.
I think we have tears.
It's like tiramisu.
There's layers, and you know,as a young kid, you know my dad
was a great mentor.
He was able to put it inCrayola crayons for me, and
that's not to imply that hewasn't an educated guy, it's
just.
You know, when you're raised bywolves, you behave like a wolf,
and you know I was a verytenacious young kid.
(08:39):
I got in a lot of trouble, Iwas kind of a scrapper, and so
that type of hard nosed school,of hard knocks type education
was very fitting for me and Ireceived it well.
But as I became more of arefined individual and as I
discovered different you knowdifferent ponds to leap to and
places to educate myself as Igrew well, then there's you know
(09:01):
, there's a different need therethat comes to the surface and I
think people enter your livesat the moments they're supposed
to enter them.
And I think we emit energy.
I mean, it's a reality.
You know, I'm not supereducated on it, but enough to
know that there's certainly afrequency that we emit.
And I think that when we emitthat energy, you know, certain
(09:21):
people decide to interact withit.
For instance, one of the mentorsthat I have now.
His name is Dave Shiroff.
He's a CEO several times over,of many successful companies and
very large exits.
He's currently, by choice, alawyer and, I believe, a CTO of
a large mattress company.
And, shout out, dave Shiroff,incredible human being.
(09:44):
This is a guy that when I workedfor him, I was employed by him
he used to call me as MichaelJordan.
He says you know, I call youMichael Jordan.
I said why he goes?
Because I have to put you inthe damn game, because you win
every single time.
He says, but none of the otherplayers can stand to play with
you.
You're so volatile.
So, you know, we went from thatrelationship to you know.
(10:04):
Now, these days, we meet acouple of times a month,
sometimes once a month for aZoom call or lunch when he's in
town and we have incredibly highlevel entrepreneurial
conversations and he's elevatingme and helping me get to a
plane that I I wouldn't get towithout that influence.
So, to your point, I think thatI don't think you seek a mentor
.
I think you can and I thinkit's effective to do so, but I
(10:26):
think, if you understand that,you just simply push out into
the atmosphere and what isnecessary will come to you, as
long as your intentions are pureand as long as you're, I think
the most important thing to meis as long as you're willing to
provide reciprocal value.
If you're just looking to getfrom somebody, you're going to
attract the wrong kind of energy.
MC (10:49):
But if you're willing to give to somebody to receive in
return, that's where a lot ofgood relationships start.
Oh well, what a perfect segueinto what I wanted to ask you.
You know, in our companieswe've got a software company and
a marketing agency, and one ofour core values is BRT build
relationships of trust and whatyou're talking about here really
resonates with me, because whenI realized that the focus
(11:15):
should not be the sale, itshould be the building of the
trusting relationship, it's likethat's when the sales actually
started happening more free flowthan ever.
You talk about authenticpersuasion, so I want to tie
this all together and first justget your take on.
What do you mean by authenticpersuasion?
Luke (11:36):
That's a great question and I love to speak on it.
So in Paid to Persuade, we sayauthenticity sells and
confidence closes, and I willtake that with me to the grave.
There's certain things thatchange over time.
There's certain things thatchange over time.
There's some things that remaintimeless.
That is one of the things thatwill remain timeless.
And the question is why?
What is authentic persuasion?
Well, if you were to come lookat a vehicle and you test drove
(12:00):
the vehicle and you said hey,luke, man, that seems like a
real badass truck.
Would you buy that truck?
If you wouldn't buy that truck,most salespeople go are you
kidding me, man?
That's a sweet truck.
Hell yeah, I'd buy that truck.
I just I can't afford a trucklike that.
That's why I drive a Jeep GrandCherokee.
Okay, that's inauthenticpersuasion.
That's just trying to BSsomebody to get a deal.
Right Now, what would I trainyou to say?
(12:20):
Or what would I train you tosay?
Or what would I help you orassist you into learning to say?
I would say yeah, you know,bill, honestly, I wouldn't, I
would, I wouldn't buy that truck.
Or if you're asking if I wouldbuy that truck, the answer would
be no.
And then silence and that's veryeffective because that shows
that you're being completelyauthentic.
Well, why not?
Well, I mean, brother, franklyI don't tow anything.
(12:41):
I don't live in an area where Iwould warrant four-wheel drive.
My commute's incredibly shortand I'm not a big guy, so I
really don't have need for atruck.
But if you're asking me if whatI did on a daily basis
facilitated the need for thattruck or I was in the same
position as you, I don't thinkthere's a better vehicle you can
buy, frankly.
But I'm not going to lie to youand say I'd buy it, because
(13:02):
that would just be a lie.
But is it a hell of a truck?
It's a hell of a truck.
What happens when youcommunicate that authentically?
What people think?
What superficial salespeople,rookie salespeople and, quite
frankly, superficial saletrainers not to throw darts, but
there's a lot of them out therethey're going to teach you to
always maintain an agreementstate with the customer.
Like, no matter what, make sureyou maintain agreement.
(13:23):
Well, if you have to tell a lieto maintain agreement, the lack
of authenticity, the deficit ofauthenticity, far negates the
agreement state, meaning it isby far the greater of the two
evils.
Okay, to tell somebody thetruth.
Even if it doesn't follow anagreement state with a line of
questioning or with the saleflow, it's perfectly okay,
(13:44):
because your customer isn'tthere thinking that every answer
is going to be yes, and that'swhat most salespeople don't
understand.
It's so sad because it's sovery simple and it's so much
easier to do it that way.
Right, if you just be honestwith your customer, you're going
to find your conversationalflow goes so much better.
And your customer is notexpecting to walk through the
door and hear every single thingthey want to hear.
They're on a discovery mission.
When your customer is notexpecting to walk through the
(14:05):
door and hear every single thingthey want to hear, they're on a
discovery mission.
When your customer comes intoyour dealership or engages with
you about a product or service,they're on a discovery mission.
They have a preconceived notionof what your product or service
is going to afford them.
They're there to discover iftheir preconceived notion is
correct and, if it's correct, ifthey want to engage and if they
want to engage, if it'saffordable to do so.
(14:27):
So if there's a few no's in thepot on the way there, their
human being is going to beperfectly okay with that.
MC (14:36):
Hey, does your marketing agency suck?
Listen, before we hop back intothis episode.
I know you know me as the hostof the Dealer Playbook, but did
you also know that I'm the CEOof flex dealer, an agency that's
helping dealers capture betterquality leads from local SEO and
hyper targeted ads that convert.
So if you want to sell morecars and finally have a partner
that's in it with you thatdoesn't suck Visit flex
(14:58):
dealercom.
Let's hop back into thisepisode.
I love.
I love how you put it.
I mean unless, of course,you're me I'm just a lay down
dude, I just walk in and I go.
That.
Luke (15:11):
That means you're a good salesperson, brother.
All good salespeople are laydowns.
MC (15:15):
That's true.
I just don't want to put upwith the hassle.
I'm like, give it to me, putthe full warranty, like, just
like-.
Luke (15:20):
Make a few bucks, get me out of here in less than two
hours.
Yeah, exactly, time is morevaluable to you that's, uh, I
would agree with you.
MC (15:28):
Do you think it though it's?
You know, I'll have to admit Ifeel kind of sheepish in
admitting this.
When I was looking through, aswe were prepping for this
conversation, and you had youhad written focus on building
trust, I actually found myself,after all these years selling
and building businesses andtalking about it, on the show
(15:51):
that the operation, theoperative word here, is not
build and it's not trust, it'sactually focus.
And it hit me for the firsttime and and I feel sheepish now
as a 40 something year old dudegoing wait a minute how come
this is hitting, striking me insuch a different way?
What do you recommend for thefrontline guys or the managers
(16:15):
where it's all about puttinganother number up on the board,
where they're just focused onget them in, get them in, get
them in, get them in Through thelens of they're there on a
discovery mission.
Help those listening shifttheir focus from get them in or
(16:38):
put another number up on theboard to the human being that's
standing right in front of them.
Luke (16:45):
That's a great question.
So first you got to understandthat 90% of customers that visit
a brick and mortarestablishment have made a buying
decision already.
They're not.
When I say made a buyingdecision already, I don't mean
they've chosen Wolfsburg editionplaid seats with, you know,
heated tech package.
I'm saying they've made thedecision they're going to engage
(17:06):
and buy an automobile orwhatever it else is that you're
selling.
When they visit yourestablishment and this is for
you know, tangible assets at abrick and mortar establishment
they're there and your job isnot to go sell them something
and that's where people get itso wrong man.
Your job is not to go out andpush words down their throat and
push value down their throatand push warranty and service
(17:28):
and sell the house.
You don't really need to sellanything.
What you need to do is you needto go on a discovery mission.
You don't really need to sellanything.
What you need to do is you needto go on a discovery mission
and the focus needs to be how doI make this process as seamless
and cohesive for this customeras humanly possible?
You look at really, really highlevel entrepreneurs and this is
where I think salespeople dothem, especially in the car
(17:51):
business, brother, they dothemselves a terrible injustice.
They say, well, we're just carsales, brother.
They do themselves a terribleinjustice.
They say, well, we're just carsalespeople.
This is just car sales.
And when I say something like,well, compare what you're doing
to somebody like Richard Bransonor Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos dude
, we're just car salespeople.
Okay, Well, elon Musk is justsending rockets to the moon and
(18:12):
Jeff Bezos is just selling papercups and paper towels to a
billion people on Amazon.
You talk to a guy like JeffBezos and he'll tell you listen,
if you want to remainsuccessful, remain trying to
satisfy your customer.
Remain facilitating the wants,the needs, the desires of your
customer.
Make buying easy for them.
Okay, so your focus in sales isnot how do I shove words down
(18:36):
their throat, how do I use myword tracks to convince them?
How do I get them nodding andyesing and logic trap them into
a?
Yes, it's very simple and it's.
This is where it ties into.
You know, a little shamelessplug here for P2P, we have
something that we call the bigthree framework, the big three
questions.
Okay, now, this is for tangibleassets and, frankly, very
(18:56):
relative to the car business.
Okay, three things, not threequestions, not three word tracks
, just three things you got tosolve for and your sale is 80%
done.
Number one what brought you heretoday?
Why are you here?
Well, they're here shopping fora car.
No, I get it, mr Customer, butmost people drive by the
dealership.
They don't pull in.
You chose to pull in today.
(19:16):
Why did you pull in?
Well, because I want to look attrucks.
I hear you, mr Customer,everybody that comes here
looking at trucks wants to lookat trucks.
But you drove here, you today,today, for a particular reason.
Why?
Well, I'm about 1,600 miles,I'm going to be out of warranty
on my pickup truck and I like tobe.
Oh look, golden nugget.
Now we know there's some urgency, right.
And when you go on this missionof discovery and compassionate
(19:38):
interrogation, you unearthliterally everything that you
need to create anon-objectionable close.
So, as a school or, excuse me,as a student of the car business
, okay, the things that we wantto discover do they have a
trade-in?
Do they owe money on thetrade-in?
Why did they come today?
Is there some urgency?
Are they on their lunch break?
And this is where thisframework is incredibly
(19:59):
effective.
First thing what brought youhere today?
This is what we need to solvefor before we even show them a
vehicle.
Number two what is your buyingpower?
Not?
Do you have good credit?
It's very simply.
Do you want to leverage thepower of a bank and pay over
time?
You know, and it's all in theverbiage Do you want to leverage
the power of a bank and payover time, or is this something
that you like to take care ofall at once?
It's very, very simple.
(20:20):
And when you can do thatconversationally and this is
what people don't understand thepeople that are listening a lot
of listeners right now areprobably going oh well, if in
say to you hey, man, you'relooking for a pickup truck,
awesome, okay, well, let's gotake a look at a few.
I noticed that you drove apickup truck here.
(20:41):
You're going to replace thatone.
Yeah, I'm going to replace thisone.
Okay, cool, when you comes off,very easy, very conversational.
That's what's selling it, not.
How smooth can you say the wordtrack, how conversational can
you be in extracting information?
(21:01):
And then the third thing, man,is very simply what did you hope
to accomplish today?
And I don't mean word track,what did you hope to accomplish
today?
I mean so listen, bill, youknow I want to be as efficient
with your time as possible.
Sounds like you're going to behere for a few minutes.
What can I do in that timeframe to make this process as
seamless as possible for you andget you exactly what you came
for as quickly as possible?
Well, I wanted to drive one andmaybe see what some numbers
(21:24):
were on my trade-in.
No problem, I can get that donefor you.
If I get that done for you, arewe going to consider today a
win?
Yes, you with that.
Now the customer goes from aframe of well, I'm here being
sold a vehicle to well, you know, I'm sure the pitch is going to
come at some point, but rightnow it looks like he's just
trying to help me walk along thepath and when the guard remains
down and it remainsconversational, the selling is a
hell of a lot of you yeah, Ilove it too.
MC (21:45):
I love that you even call out the the naysayers, um,
because often those naysayersare going to say, well, no, like
you can't just say that, whatare we supposed to do next?
And what you're supposed to donext is learn how to be a good
human being.
Like.
Nobody can teach you that part,nobody can teach you the
mechanics of being a good humanbeing.
Luke (22:04):
You just have to, like, have that moral compass you know
, what's incredible about whatyou're saying is if people could
simply just buy in.
Just yeah, the same way thatthey believe that the gossip
they read about the Hollywoodactors is true, the same reason
they believe the nonsense thatis spread with political agenda.
They just buy into it.
If they could have that samefaith and buy into what you just
(22:25):
said and, for 60 days, just sayI'm just going to be a good
person, I'm going to genuinelycare about my customer and what
they're trying to accomplish andI'm going to ask logical,
conversational questions.
I'm going to genuinely careabout my customer and what
they're trying to accomplish andI'm going to ask logical,
conversational questions.
I get salespeople that willcome up and you know, when I'm
doing like a, like a, like aguest training, or I'll do like
a sale with a team, I get thesalespeople that come and
they're like yeah, well, youknow, the guy wants to be under
500 bucks a month, that guythat's got to sleep on it, who
(22:47):
doesn't exist, by the way and Igo down to my TO of the deal and
I say hey, brother, just out ofcuriosity, I mean when I need
to make a sandwich and I'mhungry and I got four bucks in
my pocket and I walk intoWalmart, I walk out with bread,
(23:08):
so you wanted to be under 500,you wanted to spend 2, just
realistically, what you're notjust not here for a truck today.
Well, no, I do need a truck.
Well, let me ask you thisquestion, that the question to a
salesperson is what do you wantto know?
Well, I want to know whythey're not buying.
When they said, if we did thesethings, they would buy.
Well, wait a minute, did theysay they would buy if you did
those things?
Or did they say that's whatthey're looking to accomplish?
(23:30):
Well, yeah, he told me that'swhere he wanted to be.
But did you ask him, if I doall these things Very
commonsensical, if I do allthese things, are you in fact
going to sign on a dotted lineand buy a vehicle today?
Well, no, not today.
Oh, ok, why?
And the whole point is thatcomes in the compassionate
interrogation process andthere's a you know there's
additional components to itwhere, if they, if you don't get
what you want, becauseeverybody's listening right now
(23:52):
saying, well, luke, they're notalways going to say the things
you want them to say in thebeginning of the conversation.
No, kidding.
That's why there'scontingencies for everything.
We have time gates, which is aprocess that we use to take a
human being who says, no, I'mnot going to do it today, and
give them a few options thatsave them a tremendous amount of
money.
That are implied.
They're not actual price points, they're not actual deals, it's
(24:12):
just an implied statement.
Hey, if this certain situationwere to transpire today, do you
think you'd possibly engage?
Well, if that happened, thenyeah, I would.
And just to reiterate so, ifthis and this were true, you
actually would do somethingtoday.
No, I would, even though theway, not that, if it was like
that, I would do it.
Now you have intent.
This individual can buy withoutthe third party.
(24:33):
And once you get and what peopledon't realize is when you just
get the customer to admit thosethings at the outset of the
conversation, using inferredsituations, they're in their
head.
They've now released thatburden, they've now allowed
themselves to detach themselvesfrom that objection and it will
never rear its head during therest of the sale.
And that's what a lot of peopledon't get, man.
(24:53):
And the funniest part about allof it is it just comes from
being conversational.
Ask the thing you want to knowin a respectful, compassionate
way.
Hey man, you know I sell carsand I make a commission when I
sell them.
You told me boom, boom and boom, or where you wanted to be
we're at boom, boom and boom,but you're not fine.
Just out of curiosity, you know, is today just not the day.
(25:13):
Well, no man, you guys justdon't have a blue one, and you'd
be amazed how quickly peoplewill tell you exactly what you
need to know when you're justconversational and honest with
them.
And I think that's the pointyou're making.
MC (25:24):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I couldn't agree more.
It's funny that when you justshow genuine care and concern
for somebody else, I love howyou said release that burden
Because it is.
Maybe they don't even classifywhat they're feeling as a burden
, but when they let go of it itsure feels like a release.
Luke (25:44):
You want to know what one of the most effective ways to
get your customer to advance thesale is.
Tell them they're in no dangerof buying anything.
Mr Customer, it seems like thisis a little bit stressful for
you and I've been asking somepretty significant questions.
This is an expensive vehicle.
I get it.
Let me ask you a question howabout we just not put you in any
(26:04):
danger of buying anything today?
Can I take the salesman shoesoff?
Can I just show you some stuff,give you a card with some
numbers on it and send you outthe door today with some stuff
to think about?
Would that be okay with you?
Yeah, honestly, that'd be great, awesome.
Let's do it that way.
Let's just proceed.
You're in no danger of buyinganything.
I'm the consultant who's justgiving you information.
(26:24):
The only thing I ask if I dothat for you, when it comes time
to actually buy something,would you be willing to give me
a shot at your business?
Oh, I absolutely would.
Okay, well, now here's thenefarious part.
Guess what?
You're still going to try tosell them something today, but
what you've done is you'vereleased them completely.
Ok.
If you walk into the hospital,the doctor says you know what
(26:45):
I'm going to wave a magic wandand there's no way you're going
to catch any germs, there's noway anybody's going to cough on
you, there's no way you're goingto slip and fall and there's no
way anybody's going to give youa hard time from the psych ward
.
But if you, just if they wereto say that to you all of a
sudden, your waltz through thehospital is far more comfortable
and right.
What most people don't realizeis when you and this is again
(27:05):
the naysayers they'll say well,dude, if you say that, well,
then they're not going to buyanything.
And then it's like okay, well,let me ask you a question.
If I said to you, no matterwhat I say, say no.
Okay, the sky is blue.
No, the grass is green.
No, I'm handsome.
No, take this check for $10.7million.
(27:27):
Oh look, all of a sudden thegame has changed.
Right, it doesn't matter whatthe precursor is.
When the value propositionexceeds the ask, you're going to
engage.
It's just a tool to get yourcustomer to relieve themselves
of the anxiety and allow you allthe way in, and it's incredibly
effective.
As we wind down here, I want totry themselves of the anxiety
and allow you all the way in andit's incredibly effective.
MC (27:42):
As we wind down here, I want to try and bring this together,
and I can't help but thinkabout what limiting beliefs we
generally harbor or hang on tothat are preventing us from
doing the things that you'resaying.
Luke (27:58):
Well, the first one is sales has been purported to be
this thing for, you know, eversince Henry Ford put the crank
in the first Model T.
We think we're supposed toshake a hand, build rapport,
showcase a product, trial, closeand then overcome objections.
Every sales training inexistence I don't care what one
it is, what label it is, whatbrand it is If you unpackage the
(28:21):
training and you actually lookat it, that's what you have.
Now there's a million differentthings they call it, but it all
starts with meet and greet,light conversation, qualifying,
building rapport, then showcasethe product to service, know
your product, then closewhatever form of close or trial
close that they teach you andthen overcome objections.
(28:43):
I mean, let's be honest, whatis every video on social media
that's getting a million viewsfrom the, the youtube famous
sales trainers of the world?
What does it do?
It's a logic loop thatovercomes one objection and
returns you into the salesconversation.
Well, that's not teaching youhow to sell.
That's teaching you a cutething to say when somebody says
they want to talk to their wifeRight, when we completely
(29:06):
re-understand what selling is,we can be far more effective,
and the limiting belief is thatthat is the process Meet the
customer, meet and greet,showcase the product, trial.
Close overcome objections.
The overcoming of objectionsshould never take place.
Close overcome objections.
The overcoming of objectionsshould never take place.
It should be the elimination ofobjections at the outset of the
conversation.
(29:26):
Now, if you're a brand newsalesperson, you've never sold a
car in your life is a wordtrack going to be helpful?
Of course it is.
When you're nervous, you'resocially awkward, you don't know
the product, is it helpful to?
Hey, mr Customer, my name isBill.
Welcome to ABC Motors.
Is there anything I can helpyou with today?
Sure, okay, and then, hey, so Icould get you all the
information you need regardingyour new pickup truck.
(29:47):
Do you mind if I ask you a fewquick questions and a quick
benefit request to help get theminside?
These things are helpful, ofcourse, okay, but the limiting
belief is that has to showcasethe product and then, once they
look at it, they test drive it,they fall in love with it, then
ask them to buy.
Trial close hey, mr Smith, gopark it in the sold row.
There's a nice spot right there.
Well, wait, I'm not ready to dothat quite yet.
(30:08):
Well, why is that?
You said you loved it and yousaid your wife didn't need it
and all these things.
And then we're playing wordgames and what are we and forth
with the customer and weimmediately go into an
adversarial arrangement.
These are the same guys thattell you to stay in an agreement
state with your customer, butthey teach you logic cues, logic
traps and word tracks thatmaintain an argumentative state
(30:29):
with the customer.
Objections should be handled atthe outset of the conversation
and there's a way to do it, andthat, my friend, is why I exist.
That is what paid to persuade.
It is a completely differentprocess of selling that includes
a compassionate interrogationprocess and a framework that
gets it all done at thebeginning.
Literally, the only thing thatyour customer can object to is
(30:52):
the product, meaning Chevy has athree-year 36,000-mile warranty
.
This has a three-year 36 withlimited roadside.
I mean, I'm talking the minutiaeof objections that, as long as
you know your product, you knoware usually just negotiating
points.
They're not deal breakers,they're just somebody looking
for a few bucks off.
If somebody wants to buysomething, they're going to buy
(31:13):
it.
And as far as the limitingbeliefs go, man, any deal that
has intent and money can beclosed.
Very simply, you just have toguide the customer where they
already want to go.
Too many salespeople thinktheir job is to handcuff the
customer and bring them wherethey need them to be.
You're never going to bringsomebody somewhere they don't
(31:34):
already want to go.
Ask yourself if you walked intoMacy's and you needed a black
sweater to match your motorcycle, and somebody goes dude.
I'm telling you, we got a greatdeal on a pink negligee.
Are you walking out of therewith a pink negligee?
And the answer is of course not.
Okay.
MC (31:49):
But if I am, then I'm going and selling my motorcycle
exactly.
Luke (31:53):
Or getting a different kind of motorcycle, maybe.
But the the question then,because, well, could I maybe be
upgraded to a black crew neckleather jacket from Nautica?
Maybe I could, yeah, and Imight be compelled to do the
Macy's card and get the rewardsand put it on a credit account.
I could be compelled to extendmy spend and do those things,
(32:15):
but my fundamental goal is notgoing to change, and when a
salesperson understands you'renever going to get somebody to
engage in a purchase thatthey're not already planning on
engaging in your life becomes alot easier when you move with
the grain.
So that's what I would saywould be my two hardest points
as far as limiting beliefs.
MC (32:31):
Wow, well, I've taken a lot of notes here.
I love this conversation,definitely love to have you back
on the show in the future.
We got to pick up thisconversation where we left off
for now.
How can those listening andwatching connect with you?
Luke (32:46):
Yeah, absolutely.
I appreciate that man and I'dlove to come back.
It's a great show.
I could talk cars all day.
Luke Lunk L-U-K-E-L-U-N-K.
At Luke Lunk on your Instagram,your TikTok, your Facebook,
youtube is going to be paid thenumber to persuade and then if
they're interested in gettingsome sales training, if they're
in the car business or any typeof sales, and they want to look
us up and have a conversationabout sales training, it's paid
(33:08):
the number to persuadecom.
MC (33:11):
There you have it, man.
Thanks so much for joining meon the dealer playbook podcast.
Thank you, brother.
Hey, thanks for listening tothe dealer playbook podcast.
If you enjoyed tuning in,please subscribe, share and hit
that like button.
You can also join us and theDPB community on social media.
Check back next week for a newDealer Playbook episode.
Thanks so much for joining.
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