May 22, 2025 • 31 mins
In this episode, my guest is Barry Hillier, co-founder of Auto Agentic A.I. and someone I’ve known and respected for years. Barry’s got a deep background in SaaS and marketing, and he’s one of those rare people who can make complex tech make sense—and more importantly, make it useful.
We talk about what AI actually means for dealerships, business owners, and people in general—not in the theoretical sense, but in the “what should I be doing about this right now?” kind of way.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll get from this conversation:
- How AI can make you better at your job instead of taking it
- What dealerships need to know before jumping into AI tools
- Why people with strong emotional intelligence (EQ) might be more valuable than ever
- How AI changes the way we train, learn, and lead teams
- What this all means for the next generation—including your kids
Barry also shares how he fell into building tech solutions for the auto industry, what he’s learned from saying “yes” before knowing how, and why we’re just scratching the surface of how AI can elevate human potential.
If you're a dealer, leader, entrepreneur—or just someone trying to figure out where you fit in this next chapter—this one’s worth a listen. The ideas we explore could shift the way you think about tech, talent, and your future.
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FlexDealer Need Better Quality Leads? FLX helps car dealers generate better quality leads through localized organic search and highly-targeted digital ads that convert. Not only that, they work tirelessly to ensure car dealers integrate marketing and operations for a robust and functional growth strategy.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
MC (00:00):
This episode is brought to you by FlexDealer.
Hey, auto industry, what isgoing on?
We are live here at the TorontoInternational Auto Show.
(00:20):
I'm sitting down with my pal,barry Hillier.
Did I say it right?
I hate when I get people'snames wrong.
You got it absolutely right.
Thank you very much, man.
This is how you know theepisode is just going to go is
when you get the guest nameright, and I have to get your
name right because we've knowneach other for a long time.
Thank you so much for joining meon the Dealer Playbook.
Barry (00:42):
You know what, Michael?
It's fantastic and you are thefirst person I'm actually
talking to in any formal way,since I've been out of
automotive since 2017.
I'm thrilled that you're theguy that I get to talk to first.
MC (00:54):
Now the now.
You're going to see the sweatstart to roll down my face here.
You are somebody that I have alot of respect for, especially
because you know, when I wasstarting my companies, you were
the one who I was like man.
He's rung the bell Like you'vefigured out something.
You were.
You're a big name in SAS and insoftware and finding unique
(01:16):
solutions to the problems of theday, and so I have a lot of
respect for you there, and I'mexcited to talk to you about
your new venture.
You're the co-founder ofAutoagentic AI.
Obviously, you know this.
That is the thing everyone'stalking about, yeah, but if I
think there's anybody that has aunique spin on how we should be
thinking about AI, it's you.
(01:36):
So to set the stage here, Iwant to just kind of backtrack
rewind a little bit, of justkind of backtrack rewind a
little bit.
How did you even get intosoftware?
And the second to that is howdo you see that all of that
experience prepared you for thisnew venture?
Barry (01:54):
It's a great question, and the answer is every career
step that I've taken I've falleninto.
I haven't strategically foundthat direction.
So, in other words, you know,when I had Dashboard, we were
doing agency service work, andafter the market crashed in 2008
, toyota basically had saidwe're no longer providing our
(02:18):
web platforms to the dealers,and I was doing a lot of work on
Territory Toilet Dealers thiswas one of my biggest accounts,
sure, and so a bunch of dealerscame to me and said, hey, can
you build this for us?
So you know, every entrepreneurout there is going to relate to
this.
Of course, I said yes, I had noidea what they were asking me.
(02:39):
I knew I could figure it out,though, and so I started to work
very closely with some keyindividuals.
It was actually a meme to Johnnyat Don Valley North Lexus, who,
originally, I started to talkwith and built out the initial
platform for what becameGlovebox, and what ended up
happening was I thought that wasgoing to just be a way for me
(03:01):
to get more agency service work.
I didn't realize the real powerof SaaS at the time, and I
didn't even know what SaaS was,but the more I got into it, the
more.
I realized especially when allof those $400 checks started
arriving each month and onemonth it dawned on me that's
$25,000 a year and because ofthe caliber of what we built, it
(03:25):
was growing by word of mouth.
We didn't have a singlesalesperson.
So Brent Weiss at the time andI started to say let's take this
seriously and we really doubleddown and we said we're going to
pursue this as a business andbuild that out.
We started to create the nextversion.
We were, I believe, the firstand I can say definitively, we
(03:48):
were one of the first webplatforms to have responsive
design and that's across NorthAmerica.
And then Steve Southern hadapproached me and we created
Bumper and then I created a fewother platforms, but each of
those kind of came about morebecause an opportunity presented
itself.
Rather than me being a tech guy.
(04:08):
You know in my heart of hearts,cause I'm not right, but that's
how that all happened and AIkind of happened the same way.
We sold the companies in 2017and I thought I was done with
tech and I thought it was donein automotive.
MC (04:22):
I love.
So, first of all, if I can justunpack one thing I love, you
say I'm a founder, I'm anentrepreneur.
Yeah, the fact that you saidyes to something I don't think a
lot of people understand thenuance of I'm going to say yes
to something that I don'tunderstand, and figure it out,
and figure it out, becausetherein lies the joy of
entrepreneurship.
Yeah, in my opinion, and it'salso great improvisational
(04:46):
comedy, because it's alwaysabout the yes and A hundred
percent Right.
Yes, and I don't know what I'mdoing, but I'm going to figure
it out.
Barry (04:52):
One of my favorite ways when somebody asks me what's it
like being an entrepreneur?
And I said well, here's whatit's like.
You jump off a cliff and youstart building a plane and you
hope you don't hit the groundand you start to at least glide,
if not get air, and you know atthe end of the day I think
every good entrepreneur realizesif there's an opportunity,
(05:14):
nobody else is necessarilysmarter or better than you.
You just need to find thepeople and you need to find the
way to make it happen.
And that was exactly ourapproach when it came from.
We're already building websitesand we've been building apps,
so the leap to go from that intocreating SaaS software wasn't
necessarily a huge leap, but itwas very different.
(05:35):
We decided to figure out how tomake that work and to work at a
level that we were proud ofRight.
MC (05:42):
Now here comes AI, yeah, which I love talking about,
because I'm the kind of guy whodoesn't like to just look at a
topic from this angle.
My immediate response is I needto see what's on the other side
of this right.
This and AI is that?
I like to go hold on a minute.
What does it look like from theother side?
(06:07):
And, as we were talkingpre-show, it seems that since
2017, as you've really startedto dig in and develop your new
venture, autoagentic that that'skind of how you're approaching
AI.
It's less buzz and it's morepracticality of it.
Barry (06:22):
For me, technology has never been about what's behind
the scenes, from the standpointof how is it built.
It's always about how is itused and getting into the notion
of how it's used.
I've also never seen technologyas replacing people, and that's
a huge concern, I know.
With AI, if you think aboutwhen computers came in, there
(06:48):
was an explosion that createdall these new jobs, so there
were far more people that hadcareers post-computer than when
you think about even simplethings like checkouts.
Well, all of the stores weren'treducing the staff, they just
shifted them, and so on and soon.
And so, to me, ai.
In my heart of hearts, Ibelieve this AI will always beat
(07:09):
people, but AI with peoplenobody can touch, because you
have the EQ of the person andyou now have the potential of AI
to elevate the potential of theperson.
And I think what ends uphappening is and I'll use a
different example from thestandpoint to make this point
(07:30):
yes, we're going to lose certaincareers.
If you are a copywriter, youare going to find yourself in
trouble.
If you are a musician, you aregoing to find yourself in
trouble.
Great musicians will still finda way.
But here's the flip side Peoplethat may not be great musicians
(07:52):
or they may not be greatwriters, are going to be able to
tap into AI.
So that very large group thathas creative potential but
couldn't realize it are going torely on tools that are going to
allow them to actually bebetter versions of themselves.
And so now you factor that intoentrepreneurs, who can't
necessarily compete with thelarge guys, they now have tools
(08:16):
at their fingertips to be ableto do things that they couldn't
have afforded to do, they didn'tknow how to do before, and so
to bring it back into automotivedealerships.
And there's a reallyinteresting example that
somebody asked me and he saysokay, well, what about a new
salesperson walking in to be abetter salesperson, to have
(08:46):
better listening techniques, todo product knowledge tests, to
understand, you know, I'm a 20some odd year old.
How can I talk to a 45 year oldmother of three and do that in
a way that actually is going toconnect with her?
These are the things that thesetools are going to allow, that
I think are going to not replaceanybody, but they're going to
bring out the better versions ofourselves and in doing that
(09:08):
we're going to see the entireworkforce change.
But I'm not a believer.
That's going to change for theworse, at least not for
everybody.
Some people are going to getdevastated.
I'm not going to lie.
MC (09:20):
I mean, while you think to your point about the copywriter,
you know we only know theGeorge Jetson that pushed the
button for the sprockets.
Yeah, but 20 years earlierGeorge Jetson was building the
sprockets by hand, so his jobgot resorted to.
I'm just making this is a, youknow, total, fictional analogy.
Barry (09:39):
But it's a fair one, because when you sit down and
you take a look at, you've got alot of individuals and what I
would say, regardless of whereyou're sitting, you know, is AI
a friend?
Is it a foe?
Is it a mistake?
The more that you embrace it,the tsunami is.
You can see the crest, it'shere Right.
(10:01):
So are you going to embrace itto understand enough so that
you're not sitting on the beachwhen that tsunami hits and that
tsunami isn't gonna stop?
You know, remember how manypeople I can't tell you how many
times when I would present todealerships this new thing
called the internet and we don'tneed a website, or hey, now
(10:23):
there's this new thing calledsocial media, and literally had
people say I don't want, I don'tcare what somebody had for
lunch, and yet these did have alot of negative elements about
them, but they also had a lot ofpositive, and there were
windows when the people thatweren't using them really they
got hurt, and AI is that onsteroids right now.
MC (10:46):
So, when it comes to your position, the solution that you
want to bring in, that you know.
I love how you're saying whenit's connected to human, yeah,
it's unstoppable.
Barry (11:06):
So, with what you're working on, what is the position
or the message that you wantthe dealer body to understand or
to know?
My position, when it comes downto the dealer body, is educate
yourself and educate yourself.
Like so many past technologies,you had situations where people
were misrepresenting themselves, they were putting lipstick on
a pig, they were over inflatingwhat something would do.
Really educate yourself as towhat is actually happening to
(11:31):
enough of an extent that you'reasking the right questions about
security, about what are thefoundations of their approach.
So, whether it's differentlarge language models or whether
it's different ways thatthey're constructing these, it's
really important that you startto understand enough of the
(11:51):
basics.
And the crazy thing is, anydealer can go out there and just
ask chat, gpt, explain thesethings to me in a way that I can
understand.
So don't dive into the oldbullshit.
Baffles brains.
You know kind of tech approach,but really understand some
fundamentals of something thatis going to radically alter not
(12:12):
just your business but thinkabout for you know, dealers that
have kids out there, this, toohow are you going to help your
employees be guided through this?
And if you're being assertiveand you're taking control of
understanding as much as you can.
You're not going to be sittingon the beach anymore right, it's
(12:34):
interesting you bring the kidsinto this.
MC (12:36):
I'm old enough, a millennial , to have enjoyed mash on tv,
yeah, and young enough to be hipwith the Fresh Prince crowd,
you know.
And what I realized overChristmas when I did a complete
180 and my wife and I decided toget our kids phones we had held
I mean, my oldest is almost 16.
(12:57):
Like, we've held off on thewhole phone thing, wow, good for
you.
I was driving one day and ithit me and you just struck this
again in me.
But they're the firstgeneration who will never not
have this thing.
Yeah, I remember, you knowpagers.
I remember the look on mygrandfather's face when my dad
pulled out his first cell phonethat was as wide as this.
(13:20):
You know he had a briefcase forthis A briefcase was his phone
case and watching what lookedlike the ghost.
Leave my grandfather's body,but it it progresses from there.
Well, if I don't teach them howto use this thing, which is now
pre-loaded with, yeah, sirispeaking to gpt, and if I don't
(13:42):
help them understand how toprompt it to enhance their human
capabilities and understanding,then who's going to do it?
A college roommate, and itdawned on me what you're saying
the tsunami doesn't have to be alethal visual, but to me the
way it becomes practical, barry,is oh, this is the world my
(14:03):
kids will always live in.
Barry (14:05):
A hundred percent and I'm actually I'm going to build off
of this because one of thethings that I found interesting,
we were the generation so I'mjust a little bit older than you
and going in the early days,you had 20s and 30-year-olds who
, basically, were creating therule book of UI, ux and internet
(14:26):
and e-commerce.
And well, we progressed, likeyou, where, you know, growing up
didn't have a computer, startedto really computers in a
practical use were for me, inuniversity.
So we're talking, you know,late 80s, early 90s, and then,
all of a sudden, the internetreally didn't start to kick in
(14:47):
until around 95.
Now, what ended up happening?
If you think about the timeperiod between 95 and, say, 2010
, that 15 years you had theadvent of of smartphones, you
had apps, you had social media,you had e-commerce.
There was a lot of transitionthat happened there.
That was 15 years.
Well, it was 20 and 30 yearolds mainly that were a large
(15:09):
part of writing that the rulesof Wild West.
What's happening with a lot of20 and 30 year olds?
A lot of them are veryconcerned about privacy and a
lot of other issues, andrightfully so and a lot of
younger people are embracing it.
So I'm not in any waysuggesting that they're not, but
the people that are mostembracing and I'm finding are
(15:30):
actually 40 plus crowd, andwhat's very interesting is we've
got the history, the experience, in whatever capacity that we
have, that has allowed us toreally tap into AI and get more
out of it, because we can bringthe strategic thinking and all
of our experience and say now Iwant you to take what I know and
(15:52):
build off of it.
Here's the problem.
We used to rely on junior andintermediate people to do those
jobs for us and we would teachthem, we would mentor them, we
would coach them.
Well, over the next five years,the next 10 years, those jobs
are basically going to be doneby AI.
So how are young people goingto adapt?
(16:14):
Which means everybody needs tounderstand AI and, I would
suggest, need to startimplementing it.
But younger people inparticular need to learn.
How are they going to navigatethis, knowing that that
mentorship, that coaching and alot of those opportunities are
not going to be there?
And that's a conversation thatwe actually have at Autoagentic
(16:38):
often in terms of how can we tryto help provide solutions and
guidance in this area.
MC (16:48):
Hey, does your marketing agency suck?
Listen before we hop back intothis episode.
I know you know me as the hostof the Dealer Playbook, but did
you also know that I'm the CEOof FlexDealer, an agency that's
helping dealers capture betterquality leads from local SEO and
hyper-targeted ads that convert?
So if you want to sell morecars and finally have a partner
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(17:10):
flexdealercom.
Let's hop back into thisepisode, Right, suck, visit
flexdealercom.
Let's hop back into thisepisode.
Right.
There's a responsibility thatcomes.
It's a responsibility, Isn'tthat interesting?
I also think about this, alongwith what you're saying.
If you know, we went through Idon't know how many years, but
the majority of the value of aservice someone provided was not
(17:33):
just on their ability todiagnose that issue but then to
fix it.
Yeah, I think AI is moving usto a place where all of the
value will be in how quickly itcan be fixed, because we're not
able to mask the diagnosis pieceanymore.
Oh well, I have to hire thatplumber, and that plumber is
going to charge me for threehours because he's the only one
(17:55):
that can diagnose it.
Where now I can hold GPT upunder my sink with the camera on
and say there's a leak and Idon't know where it's coming
from and it smells weird andthere's green moss growing and
it's going to take a look andit's going to be like plumber
and bypass the thing hetypically masked all of his fees
(18:15):
in, which is the time and I'mgoing to say I have a leaky
gasket under my sink.
I need you to just come and fixit.
It just becomes a volume fixthing.
Barry (18:25):
Yeah, and that's very true.
And I mean, it reminds me backwhen you had, you know, a very
large part of my career wasworking in agencies.
So you walk into the studio andyou think about what used to
happen when you had physicaltypesetters and then that
switched over to computers andliterally typesetters would say
(18:45):
computers can't replace what Ido.
And there was a time and therewas a skill, but the value of
the skill and the cost in thetime wasn't worth it for enough
people.
So then you had computers thattook over and then you had when
those graphic design programsstarted to become more into the
masses and people would say,well, can't you just copy, click
(19:08):
or make this change, changethat to this color, change that
to that font?
And it used to be that youwould have agencies that could
craft things.
But then time got curtid andyou would have thought, okay,
well, that gives more time forideation.
That didn't necessarily happen.
So to your point, what's goingto happen with AI when I can
create entire standard operatingprocedures, implement, do all
(19:31):
of these things?
And this is part of the greatunknown.
We don't know.
And this is part of the greatunknown.
We don't know.
And this is where are wegetting into foe?
Are we getting into mistakeversus friend?
But then you look at it and youtry to balance it out and say,
all right, but if, instead ofconcentrating on these mundane
things and I'm going to go backto why I think EQ human EQ plus
(19:53):
AI is the winning combo, humanEQ is not going to get replaced
by AI.
So is this going to give moretime for creating relationships?
Is this going to give more timefor being able to establish a
better and a new relationshipthat's more real and more honest
?
So, when you're not worriedabout having to go through all
(20:15):
of these things, does thatsalesperson now have more time
to be interacting with thecommunity?
Do they have more time to bechecking in on the family?
Do they have more time forwhatever?
It might be and I think this iswhere the great unknown is
really to be decided, but Idon't believe that it's going to
(20:36):
replace people.
I just think we don't know howit's going to influence people
and how our society and how wework and how we interact with
each other is going to change.
MC (20:50):
Oh, this is.
I'm just.
I don't know if you can tell,but I'm enamored by this
conversation because howcritical a conversation this is.
While everyone is out theretalking about look at our fancy
new gadget and gizmo and thisand that the crux of the issue I
felt it's far more deep.
(21:10):
It's far more deep.
It's far more deep and I feltso unsatisfied by the AI
conversation in general untilnow.
I feel like this is scratchingan itch for me that I haven't
been able to put my finger onbecause it's the responsibility
of it.
All of the conversations I'vehad, barry, you're the first one
(21:36):
to articulate no, there's aconnection here between human EQ
and how we leverage, or what wedo to leverage, this new and
emerging idea to enhance ourlives.
And the last thing that I thinkis so important, it almost
makes me feel like a good dadfor a minute, because my little
daughter came to me and she saiddo you think being a
hairdresser would be a goodthing?
(21:56):
And I said well, your mother'sa hairdresser.
If you enjoy it, that'sfantastic, but also know that
the bigger part of mom's job islistening and interacting with
people and less about the actualhaircut that she gives.
Barry (22:12):
That's a great analogy, actually, and I'm going to use
that, if you don't mind, downthe road, and I will give you
absolute credit.
But this is the thing Peoplematter, human intelligence
matters, human creativitymatters, and, yes, it can
elevate below average andslightly above average, but that
(22:33):
top quartile, regardless ofwhatever it is, that is
something that's unique tohumans.
And let's go back to yourdaughter.
So Mike Carrick, bill Playfordand Carla Conkson are the other
co-founders, so I want to makesure that I get them out there.
Mike has daughters.
What's fantastic is, like allof us, we all interact
(22:58):
differently, but, moreimportantly, we learn
differently.
Right?
He set up ai so that each ofhis daughters, the ai is set up
for how they learn.
So the same topic.
So now again, picture theadvantage.
And I'm a big geek.
So now let's take a look atdifferent applications in AI
(23:37):
that actually do have somecomparatives.
When it comes down toautomotive and I'm gonna use the
trades.
So let's talk about yourplumber.
So your plumbers come in andlet's say that the plumber's
part of a larger crew and thelarger crew's got electricians
and you've got carpenters, andthey are highly skilled, they're
highly educated.
My entire family other than me.
(23:57):
They're all welders and fitters, so I've got a high regard when
it comes down to the trades.
And if you were to sit down andtake a look at the trades,
they're going to be able tobuild a beautiful cabinet or
they'll be able to install theright floor, they'll be able to
get plumbing, and but are theygoing to have the same customer
(24:20):
service, same communication?
You literally can walk and sitdown and say to AI okay, mrs
Smith, here's where with thecabinets, here's where we are
with this.
We ran into a problem with that.
We're under budget here, overbudget there, I need time on
this and it literally can writean email.
That is going to be thesweetest email ever written.
(24:40):
Right, that is going to makeMrs Smith feel like she
understands what's happening,she is being, she's got answers
to what she needs, yeah, andboom, there you go.
So when you start to thinkabout, especially when it comes
down to trades, when it comesdown to CPG, when it comes down
to whether it's hairdressing andother things, ai is really
(25:02):
going to elevate and in doingthat, it's going to be able to
also teach those individualssome key skills that are
actually going to be reinforcingand strengthening their EQ side
actually going to bereinforcing and strengthening
their EQ side.
MC (25:15):
This is huge.
I mean, you saw me look over atEamer off camera here, maybe a
month ago.
He and I were talking and hesaid you know, eamer?
He said Michael AI is going tobe able to teach us the way that
we learn.
So almost a mirror of what youjust said.
You were right, you were 100%right and just the implication
(25:37):
of that is such a fascinatingthought.
I mean I could follow thatwormhole.
Why?
Because I'm doing it for myself.
Yeah, sometimes there's.
I mean, I don't know, maybe I'ma slow learner, but sometimes
I'm like, wait a minute, teachme this again, like I'm six.
I've just, I need a refresheron the thing and I like to learn
in this way and give me ananecdote or give me an, a way it
(26:00):
goes, yeah.
In a similar way, the outputboy.
Did I tick some people off onLinkedIn about a month or two
ago where I revealed my highestperforming LinkedIn posts were
written by a GPT that I trainedon thousands and thousands of
words of how I've written andteaching it, my formula and
(26:20):
whatever.
Now, what did it do?
It elevated me in that it gaveme more capacity, but it was
still to your point.
This is a very simple way thatI'm processing.
It is that I still had tocross-reference.
What an output.
I had to cross-reference it.
To my heart and my gut Would Isay that Is that the position.
(26:41):
No Tweak Adjust, but my highestperforming posts for a 30 day
period were all written by a GPTthat I trained.
Yeah, and I just can't help butthink how fascinating the
implications of where we'reheaded.
I love the human element,though.
I love that you so distinctlysaid people matter, period, full
(27:04):
stop.
And and it's also making methink you better get into sales,
because sales ain't going away.
It's a people thing it totallyis.
Barry (27:13):
and when you think about the areas of sales that sales
people hate and we're quitefrankly so there was a recent so
don't panic when I say this butthere was a recent survey that
indicated and I think it wasabout 82% of consumers would
rather deal with AI and buying acar than a salesperson.
But here's the thing and thisis why don't panic A lot of it
(27:36):
is because the very early partsof that conversation, they're
not getting the answers thatthey need to in the timeframe
(28:00):
that they need it.
So, where you have AI beingable to work in Right, it's now.
How can I now start toestablish that human connection?
And it's when you view it as ateam and you think about how
many leads got dropped, how manyleads weren't followed up
correctly, etc.
Now, there's a lot of reasons,and part of the reasons too are
not everybody's comfortableconversing in those different
(28:24):
mediums where AI can adapt tothat in nanoseconds.
So you know you are going tosee that team-based approach,
but at the end of the day,people do buy from people, but
people are also have very uniqueneeds and you can't guess
what's on that person's mind.
So, using AI to be able toadapt and then using the people
(28:49):
side to that, now connect.
That's now where you're goingto actually get better.
Not only CSI from the customerstandpoint, but think about what
a better experience that is forthe employees now.
MC (29:01):
Yeah, I mean, and it feeds the triangle so perfectly.
People, inventory marketing,they all feed one another,
they're inseparably connected.
And just the implication on adealerships operation.
Man, what a fascinating.
You've opened my mind here toso many things that I, like I
said, I feel like my itch inthis AI topic is just being
(29:22):
scratched.
Now I'm like I'm getting, youknow, scratched behind the ear,
which, thank you.
Thank you for having a deeperwell to speak about this,
because I think this is exactlywhere the conversation needs to
go.
Tell me, as we wind down, howthose listening and watching can
get in touch with you andconnect.
Barry (29:40):
First I'd ask visit wwwautoagenticai.
My email is barry B-A-R-R-Y atautoagenticai.
My email is barry B-A-R-R-Y atautoagenticai, and I'm very
happy, one of the things that Iwill say.
I've always been of theattitude of I don't want to sell
people.
You know, if I have somethingthat you want, then let's have
(30:04):
that conversation and it works.
But I'm very happy, especiallyas it relates to tech, to be
part of a conversation that'seducational and my belief,
(30:27):
honestly, is, the more educated,the more aware we are your kids
.
To me, that's great.
So if anybody has any questions, reach out to me.
I'm happy to talk.
We're constantly doing webinarsthat are very educational
webinars and we also have, onAutoagentic, practical
implementations of how you canuse AI in your dealership.
But we didn't want to maketoday about selling, but that is
(30:52):
one of the areas that I thinkpeople could really start to see
how they could apply it withintheir business.
MC (30:56):
Amazing, barry.
Thanks so much for joining meon the Dealer Playbook.
No thanks, it's great to seeyou again, mike.
Yeah, likewise.
Hey.
Thanks for listening to theDealer Playbook podcast.
If you enjoyed tuning in,please subscribe, share and hit
that like button.
You can also join us and theDPB community on social media.
Check back next week for a newDealer Playbook episode.
Thanks so much for joining.
This episode is brought to you by FlexDealer.
Hey, auto industry, what isgoing on?
We are live here at the TorontoInternational Auto Show.
(00:20):
I'm sitting down with my pal,barry Hillier.
Did I say it right?
I hate when I get people'snames wrong.
You got it absolutely right.
Thank you very much, man.
This is how you know theepisode is just going to go is
when you get the guest nameright, and I have to get your
name right because we've knowneach other for a long time.
Thank you so much for joining meon the Dealer Playbook.
Barry (00:42):
You know what, Michael?
It's fantastic and you are thefirst person I'm actually
talking to in any formal way,since I've been out of
automotive since 2017.
I'm thrilled that you're theguy that I get to talk to first.
MC (00:54):
Now the now.
You're going to see the sweatstart to roll down my face here.
You are somebody that I have alot of respect for, especially
because you know, when I wasstarting my companies, you were
the one who I was like man.
He's rung the bell Like you'vefigured out something.
You were.
You're a big name in SAS and insoftware and finding unique
(01:16):
solutions to the problems of theday, and so I have a lot of
respect for you there, and I'mexcited to talk to you about
your new venture.
You're the co-founder ofAutoagentic AI.
Obviously, you know this.
That is the thing everyone'stalking about, yeah, but if I
think there's anybody that has aunique spin on how we should be
thinking about AI, it's you.
(01:36):
So to set the stage here, Iwant to just kind of backtrack
rewind a little bit, of justkind of backtrack rewind a
little bit.
How did you even get intosoftware?
And the second to that is howdo you see that all of that
experience prepared you for thisnew venture?
Barry (01:54):
It's a great question, and the answer is every career
step that I've taken I've falleninto.
I haven't strategically foundthat direction.
So, in other words, you know,when I had Dashboard, we were
doing agency service work, andafter the market crashed in 2008
, toyota basically had saidwe're no longer providing our
(02:18):
web platforms to the dealers,and I was doing a lot of work on
Territory Toilet Dealers thiswas one of my biggest accounts,
sure, and so a bunch of dealerscame to me and said, hey, can
you build this for us?
So you know, every entrepreneurout there is going to relate to
this.
Of course, I said yes, I had noidea what they were asking me.
(02:39):
I knew I could figure it out,though, and so I started to work
very closely with some keyindividuals.
It was actually a meme to Johnnyat Don Valley North Lexus, who,
originally, I started to talkwith and built out the initial
platform for what becameGlovebox, and what ended up
happening was I thought that wasgoing to just be a way for me
(03:01):
to get more agency service work.
I didn't realize the real powerof SaaS at the time, and I
didn't even know what SaaS was,but the more I got into it, the
more.
I realized especially when allof those $400 checks started
arriving each month and onemonth it dawned on me that's
$25,000 a year and because ofthe caliber of what we built, it
(03:25):
was growing by word of mouth.
We didn't have a singlesalesperson.
So Brent Weiss at the time andI started to say let's take this
seriously and we really doubleddown and we said we're going to
pursue this as a business andbuild that out.
We started to create the nextversion.
We were, I believe, the firstand I can say definitively, we
(03:48):
were one of the first webplatforms to have responsive
design and that's across NorthAmerica.
And then Steve Southern hadapproached me and we created
Bumper and then I created a fewother platforms, but each of
those kind of came about morebecause an opportunity presented
itself.
Rather than me being a tech guy.
(04:08):
You know in my heart of hearts,cause I'm not right, but that's
how that all happened and AIkind of happened the same way.
We sold the companies in 2017and I thought I was done with
tech and I thought it was donein automotive.
MC (04:22):
I love.
So, first of all, if I can justunpack one thing I love, you
say I'm a founder, I'm anentrepreneur.
Yeah, the fact that you saidyes to something I don't think a
lot of people understand thenuance of I'm going to say yes
to something that I don'tunderstand, and figure it out,
and figure it out, becausetherein lies the joy of
entrepreneurship.
Yeah, in my opinion, and it'salso great improvisational
(04:46):
comedy, because it's alwaysabout the yes and A hundred
percent Right.
Yes, and I don't know what I'mdoing, but I'm going to figure
it out.
Barry (04:52):
One of my favorite ways when somebody asks me what's it
like being an entrepreneur?
And I said well, here's whatit's like.
You jump off a cliff and youstart building a plane and you
hope you don't hit the groundand you start to at least glide,
if not get air, and you know atthe end of the day I think
every good entrepreneur realizesif there's an opportunity,
(05:14):
nobody else is necessarilysmarter or better than you.
You just need to find thepeople and you need to find the
way to make it happen.
And that was exactly ourapproach when it came from.
We're already building websitesand we've been building apps,
so the leap to go from that intocreating SaaS software wasn't
necessarily a huge leap, but itwas very different.
(05:35):
We decided to figure out how tomake that work and to work at a
level that we were proud ofRight.
MC (05:42):
Now here comes AI, yeah, which I love talking about,
because I'm the kind of guy whodoesn't like to just look at a
topic from this angle.
My immediate response is I needto see what's on the other side
of this right.
This and AI is that?
I like to go hold on a minute.
What does it look like from theother side?
(06:07):
And, as we were talkingpre-show, it seems that since
2017, as you've really startedto dig in and develop your new
venture, autoagentic that that'skind of how you're approaching
AI.
It's less buzz and it's morepracticality of it.
Barry (06:22):
For me, technology has never been about what's behind
the scenes, from the standpointof how is it built.
It's always about how is itused and getting into the notion
of how it's used.
I've also never seen technologyas replacing people, and that's
a huge concern, I know.
With AI, if you think aboutwhen computers came in, there
(06:48):
was an explosion that createdall these new jobs, so there
were far more people that hadcareers post-computer than when
you think about even simplethings like checkouts.
Well, all of the stores weren'treducing the staff, they just
shifted them, and so on and soon.
And so, to me, ai.
In my heart of hearts, Ibelieve this AI will always beat
(07:09):
people, but AI with peoplenobody can touch, because you
have the EQ of the person andyou now have the potential of AI
to elevate the potential of theperson.
And I think what ends uphappening is and I'll use a
different example from thestandpoint to make this point
(07:30):
yes, we're going to lose certaincareers.
If you are a copywriter, youare going to find yourself in
trouble.
If you are a musician, you aregoing to find yourself in
trouble.
Great musicians will still finda way.
But here's the flip side Peoplethat may not be great musicians
(07:52):
or they may not be greatwriters, are going to be able to
tap into AI.
So that very large group thathas creative potential but
couldn't realize it are going torely on tools that are going to
allow them to actually bebetter versions of themselves.
And so now you factor that intoentrepreneurs, who can't
necessarily compete with thelarge guys, they now have tools
(08:16):
at their fingertips to be ableto do things that they couldn't
have afforded to do, they didn'tknow how to do before, and so
to bring it back into automotivedealerships.
And there's a reallyinteresting example that
somebody asked me and he saysokay, well, what about a new
salesperson walking in to be abetter salesperson, to have
(08:46):
better listening techniques, todo product knowledge tests, to
understand, you know, I'm a 20some odd year old.
How can I talk to a 45 year oldmother of three and do that in
a way that actually is going toconnect with her?
These are the things that thesetools are going to allow, that
I think are going to not replaceanybody, but they're going to
bring out the better versions ofourselves and in doing that
(09:08):
we're going to see the entireworkforce change.
But I'm not a believer.
That's going to change for theworse, at least not for
everybody.
Some people are going to getdevastated.
I'm not going to lie.
MC (09:20):
I mean, while you think to your point about the copywriter,
you know we only know theGeorge Jetson that pushed the
button for the sprockets.
Yeah, but 20 years earlierGeorge Jetson was building the
sprockets by hand, so his jobgot resorted to.
I'm just making this is a, youknow, total, fictional analogy.
Barry (09:39):
But it's a fair one, because when you sit down and
you take a look at, you've got alot of individuals and what I
would say, regardless of whereyou're sitting, you know, is AI
a friend?
Is it a foe?
Is it a mistake?
The more that you embrace it,the tsunami is.
You can see the crest, it'shere Right.
(10:01):
So are you going to embrace itto understand enough so that
you're not sitting on the beachwhen that tsunami hits and that
tsunami isn't gonna stop?
You know, remember how manypeople I can't tell you how many
times when I would present todealerships this new thing
called the internet and we don'tneed a website, or hey, now
(10:23):
there's this new thing calledsocial media, and literally had
people say I don't want, I don'tcare what somebody had for
lunch, and yet these did have alot of negative elements about
them, but they also had a lot ofpositive, and there were
windows when the people thatweren't using them really they
got hurt, and AI is that onsteroids right now.
MC (10:46):
So, when it comes to your position, the solution that you
want to bring in, that you know.
I love how you're saying whenit's connected to human, yeah,
it's unstoppable.
Barry (11:06):
So, with what you're working on, what is the position
or the message that you wantthe dealer body to understand or
to know?
My position, when it comes downto the dealer body, is educate
yourself and educate yourself.
Like so many past technologies,you had situations where people
were misrepresenting themselves, they were putting lipstick on
a pig, they were over inflatingwhat something would do.
Really educate yourself as towhat is actually happening to
(11:31):
enough of an extent that you'reasking the right questions about
security, about what are thefoundations of their approach.
So, whether it's differentlarge language models or whether
it's different ways thatthey're constructing these, it's
really important that you startto understand enough of the
(11:51):
basics.
And the crazy thing is, anydealer can go out there and just
ask chat, gpt, explain thesethings to me in a way that I can
understand.
So don't dive into the oldbullshit.
Baffles brains.
You know kind of tech approach,but really understand some
fundamentals of something thatis going to radically alter not
(12:12):
just your business but thinkabout for you know, dealers that
have kids out there, this, toohow are you going to help your
employees be guided through this?
And if you're being assertiveand you're taking control of
understanding as much as you can.
You're not going to be sittingon the beach anymore right, it's
(12:34):
interesting you bring the kidsinto this.
MC (12:36):
I'm old enough, a millennial , to have enjoyed mash on tv,
yeah, and young enough to be hipwith the Fresh Prince crowd,
you know.
And what I realized overChristmas when I did a complete
180 and my wife and I decided toget our kids phones we had held
I mean, my oldest is almost 16.
(12:57):
Like, we've held off on thewhole phone thing, wow, good for
you.
I was driving one day and ithit me and you just struck this
again in me.
But they're the firstgeneration who will never not
have this thing.
Yeah, I remember, you knowpagers.
I remember the look on mygrandfather's face when my dad
pulled out his first cell phonethat was as wide as this.
(13:20):
You know he had a briefcase forthis A briefcase was his phone
case and watching what lookedlike the ghost.
Leave my grandfather's body,but it it progresses from there.
Well, if I don't teach them howto use this thing, which is now
pre-loaded with, yeah, sirispeaking to gpt, and if I don't
(13:42):
help them understand how toprompt it to enhance their human
capabilities and understanding,then who's going to do it?
A college roommate, and itdawned on me what you're saying
the tsunami doesn't have to be alethal visual, but to me the
way it becomes practical, barry,is oh, this is the world my
(14:03):
kids will always live in.
Barry (14:05):
A hundred percent and I'm actually I'm going to build off
of this because one of thethings that I found interesting,
we were the generation so I'mjust a little bit older than you
and going in the early days,you had 20s and 30-year-olds who
, basically, were creating therule book of UI, ux and internet
(14:26):
and e-commerce.
And well, we progressed, likeyou, where, you know, growing up
didn't have a computer, startedto really computers in a
practical use were for me, inuniversity.
So we're talking, you know,late 80s, early 90s, and then,
all of a sudden, the internetreally didn't start to kick in
(14:47):
until around 95.
Now, what ended up happening?
If you think about the timeperiod between 95 and, say, 2010
, that 15 years you had theadvent of of smartphones, you
had apps, you had social media,you had e-commerce.
There was a lot of transitionthat happened there.
That was 15 years.
Well, it was 20 and 30 yearolds mainly that were a large
(15:09):
part of writing that the rulesof Wild West.
What's happening with a lot of20 and 30 year olds?
A lot of them are veryconcerned about privacy and a
lot of other issues, andrightfully so and a lot of
younger people are embracing it.
So I'm not in any waysuggesting that they're not, but
the people that are mostembracing and I'm finding are
(15:30):
actually 40 plus crowd, andwhat's very interesting is we've
got the history, the experience, in whatever capacity that we
have, that has allowed us toreally tap into AI and get more
out of it, because we can bringthe strategic thinking and all
of our experience and say now Iwant you to take what I know and
(15:52):
build off of it.
Here's the problem.
We used to rely on junior andintermediate people to do those
jobs for us and we would teachthem, we would mentor them, we
would coach them.
Well, over the next five years,the next 10 years, those jobs
are basically going to be doneby AI.
So how are young people goingto adapt?
(16:14):
Which means everybody needs tounderstand AI and, I would
suggest, need to startimplementing it.
But younger people inparticular need to learn.
How are they going to navigatethis, knowing that that
mentorship, that coaching and alot of those opportunities are
not going to be there?
And that's a conversation thatwe actually have at Autoagentic
(16:38):
often in terms of how can we tryto help provide solutions and
guidance in this area.
MC (16:48):
Hey, does your marketing agency suck?
Listen before we hop back intothis episode.
I know you know me as the hostof the Dealer Playbook, but did
you also know that I'm the CEOof FlexDealer, an agency that's
helping dealers capture betterquality leads from local SEO and
hyper-targeted ads that convert?
So if you want to sell morecars and finally have a partner
that's in it with you, thatdoesn't suck, visit
(17:10):
flexdealercom.
Let's hop back into thisepisode, Right, suck, visit
flexdealercom.
Let's hop back into thisepisode.
Right.
There's a responsibility thatcomes.
It's a responsibility, Isn'tthat interesting?
I also think about this, alongwith what you're saying.
If you know, we went through Idon't know how many years, but
the majority of the value of aservice someone provided was not
(17:33):
just on their ability todiagnose that issue but then to
fix it.
Yeah, I think AI is moving usto a place where all of the
value will be in how quickly itcan be fixed, because we're not
able to mask the diagnosis pieceanymore.
Oh well, I have to hire thatplumber, and that plumber is
going to charge me for threehours because he's the only one
(17:55):
that can diagnose it.
Where now I can hold GPT upunder my sink with the camera on
and say there's a leak and Idon't know where it's coming
from and it smells weird andthere's green moss growing and
it's going to take a look andit's going to be like plumber
and bypass the thing hetypically masked all of his fees
(18:15):
in, which is the time and I'mgoing to say I have a leaky
gasket under my sink.
I need you to just come and fixit.
It just becomes a volume fixthing.
Barry (18:25):
Yeah, and that's very true.
And I mean, it reminds me backwhen you had, you know, a very
large part of my career wasworking in agencies.
So you walk into the studio andyou think about what used to
happen when you had physicaltypesetters and then that
switched over to computers andliterally typesetters would say
(18:45):
computers can't replace what Ido.
And there was a time and therewas a skill, but the value of
the skill and the cost in thetime wasn't worth it for enough
people.
So then you had computers thattook over and then you had when
those graphic design programsstarted to become more into the
masses and people would say,well, can't you just copy, click
(19:08):
or make this change, changethat to this color, change that
to that font?
And it used to be that youwould have agencies that could
craft things.
But then time got curtid andyou would have thought, okay,
well, that gives more time forideation.
That didn't necessarily happen.
So to your point, what's goingto happen with AI when I can
create entire standard operatingprocedures, implement, do all
(19:31):
of these things?
And this is part of the greatunknown.
We don't know.
And this is part of the greatunknown.
We don't know.
And this is where are wegetting into foe?
Are we getting into mistakeversus friend?
But then you look at it and youtry to balance it out and say,
all right, but if, instead ofconcentrating on these mundane
things and I'm going to go backto why I think EQ human EQ plus
(19:53):
AI is the winning combo, humanEQ is not going to get replaced
by AI.
So is this going to give moretime for creating relationships?
Is this going to give more timefor being able to establish a
better and a new relationshipthat's more real and more honest
?
So, when you're not worriedabout having to go through all
(20:15):
of these things, does thatsalesperson now have more time
to be interacting with thecommunity?
Do they have more time to bechecking in on the family?
Do they have more time forwhatever?
It might be and I think this iswhere the great unknown is
really to be decided, but Idon't believe that it's going to
(20:36):
replace people.
I just think we don't know howit's going to influence people
and how our society and how wework and how we interact with
each other is going to change.
MC (20:50):
Oh, this is.
I'm just.
I don't know if you can tell,but I'm enamored by this
conversation because howcritical a conversation this is.
While everyone is out theretalking about look at our fancy
new gadget and gizmo and thisand that the crux of the issue I
felt it's far more deep.
(21:10):
It's far more deep.
It's far more deep and I feltso unsatisfied by the AI
conversation in general untilnow.
I feel like this is scratchingan itch for me that I haven't
been able to put my finger onbecause it's the responsibility
of it.
All of the conversations I'vehad, barry, you're the first one
(21:36):
to articulate no, there's aconnection here between human EQ
and how we leverage, or what wedo to leverage, this new and
emerging idea to enhance ourlives.
And the last thing that I thinkis so important, it almost
makes me feel like a good dadfor a minute, because my little
daughter came to me and she saiddo you think being a
hairdresser would be a goodthing?
(21:56):
And I said well, your mother'sa hairdresser.
If you enjoy it, that'sfantastic, but also know that
the bigger part of mom's job islistening and interacting with
people and less about the actualhaircut that she gives.
Barry (22:12):
That's a great analogy, actually, and I'm going to use
that, if you don't mind, downthe road, and I will give you
absolute credit.
But this is the thing Peoplematter, human intelligence
matters, human creativitymatters, and, yes, it can
elevate below average andslightly above average, but that
(22:33):
top quartile, regardless ofwhatever it is, that is
something that's unique tohumans.
And let's go back to yourdaughter.
So Mike Carrick, bill Playfordand Carla Conkson are the other
co-founders, so I want to makesure that I get them out there.
Mike has daughters.
What's fantastic is, like allof us, we all interact
(22:58):
differently, but, moreimportantly, we learn
differently.
Right?
He set up ai so that each ofhis daughters, the ai is set up
for how they learn.
So the same topic.
So now again, picture theadvantage.
And I'm a big geek.
So now let's take a look atdifferent applications in AI
(23:37):
that actually do have somecomparatives.
When it comes down toautomotive and I'm gonna use the
trades.
So let's talk about yourplumber.
So your plumbers come in andlet's say that the plumber's
part of a larger crew and thelarger crew's got electricians
and you've got carpenters, andthey are highly skilled, they're
highly educated.
My entire family other than me.
(23:57):
They're all welders and fitters, so I've got a high regard when
it comes down to the trades.
And if you were to sit down andtake a look at the trades,
they're going to be able tobuild a beautiful cabinet or
they'll be able to install theright floor, they'll be able to
get plumbing, and but are theygoing to have the same customer
(24:20):
service, same communication?
You literally can walk and sitdown and say to AI okay, mrs
Smith, here's where with thecabinets, here's where we are
with this.
We ran into a problem with that.
We're under budget here, overbudget there, I need time on
this and it literally can writean email.
That is going to be thesweetest email ever written.
(24:40):
Right, that is going to makeMrs Smith feel like she
understands what's happening,she is being, she's got answers
to what she needs, yeah, andboom, there you go.
So when you start to thinkabout, especially when it comes
down to trades, when it comesdown to CPG, when it comes down
to whether it's hairdressing andother things, ai is really
(25:02):
going to elevate and in doingthat, it's going to be able to
also teach those individualssome key skills that are
actually going to be reinforcingand strengthening their EQ side
actually going to bereinforcing and strengthening
their EQ side.
MC (25:15):
This is huge.
I mean, you saw me look over atEamer off camera here, maybe a
month ago.
He and I were talking and hesaid you know, eamer?
He said Michael AI is going tobe able to teach us the way that
we learn.
So almost a mirror of what youjust said.
You were right, you were 100%right and just the implication
(25:37):
of that is such a fascinatingthought.
I mean I could follow thatwormhole.
Why?
Because I'm doing it for myself.
Yeah, sometimes there's.
I mean, I don't know, maybe I'ma slow learner, but sometimes
I'm like, wait a minute, teachme this again, like I'm six.
I've just, I need a refresheron the thing and I like to learn
in this way and give me ananecdote or give me an, a way it
(26:00):
goes, yeah.
In a similar way, the outputboy.
Did I tick some people off onLinkedIn about a month or two
ago where I revealed my highestperforming LinkedIn posts were
written by a GPT that I trainedon thousands and thousands of
words of how I've written andteaching it, my formula and
(26:20):
whatever.
Now, what did it do?
It elevated me in that it gaveme more capacity, but it was
still to your point.
This is a very simple way thatI'm processing.
It is that I still had tocross-reference.
What an output.
I had to cross-reference it.
To my heart and my gut Would Isay that Is that the position.
(26:41):
No Tweak Adjust, but my highestperforming posts for a 30 day
period were all written by a GPTthat I trained.
Yeah, and I just can't help butthink how fascinating the
implications of where we'reheaded.
I love the human element,though.
I love that you so distinctlysaid people matter, period, full
(27:04):
stop.
And and it's also making methink you better get into sales,
because sales ain't going away.
It's a people thing it totallyis.
Barry (27:13):
and when you think about the areas of sales that sales
people hate and we're quitefrankly so there was a recent so
don't panic when I say this butthere was a recent survey that
indicated and I think it wasabout 82% of consumers would
rather deal with AI and buying acar than a salesperson.
But here's the thing and thisis why don't panic A lot of it
(27:36):
is because the very early partsof that conversation, they're
not getting the answers thatthey need to in the timeframe
(28:00):
that they need it.
So, where you have AI beingable to work in Right, it's now.
How can I now start toestablish that human connection?
And it's when you view it as ateam and you think about how
many leads got dropped, how manyleads weren't followed up
correctly, etc.
Now, there's a lot of reasons,and part of the reasons too are
not everybody's comfortableconversing in those different
(28:24):
mediums where AI can adapt tothat in nanoseconds.
So you know you are going tosee that team-based approach,
but at the end of the day,people do buy from people, but
people are also have very uniqueneeds and you can't guess
what's on that person's mind.
So, using AI to be able toadapt and then using the people
(28:49):
side to that, now connect.
That's now where you're goingto actually get better.
Not only CSI from the customerstandpoint, but think about what
a better experience that is forthe employees now.
MC (29:01):
Yeah, I mean, and it feeds the triangle so perfectly.
People, inventory marketing,they all feed one another,
they're inseparably connected.
And just the implication on adealerships operation.
Man, what a fascinating.
You've opened my mind here toso many things that I, like I
said, I feel like my itch inthis AI topic is just being
(29:22):
scratched.
Now I'm like I'm getting, youknow, scratched behind the ear,
which, thank you.
Thank you for having a deeperwell to speak about this,
because I think this is exactlywhere the conversation needs to
go.
Tell me, as we wind down, howthose listening and watching can
get in touch with you andconnect.
Barry (29:40):
First I'd ask visit wwwautoagenticai.
My email is barry B-A-R-R-Y atautoagenticai.
My email is barry B-A-R-R-Y atautoagenticai, and I'm very
happy, one of the things that Iwill say.
I've always been of theattitude of I don't want to sell
people.
You know, if I have somethingthat you want, then let's have
(30:04):
that conversation and it works.
But I'm very happy, especiallyas it relates to tech, to be
part of a conversation that'seducational and my belief,
(30:27):
honestly, is, the more educated,the more aware we are your kids
.
To me, that's great.
So if anybody has any questions, reach out to me.
I'm happy to talk.
We're constantly doing webinarsthat are very educational
webinars and we also have, onAutoagentic, practical
implementations of how you canuse AI in your dealership.
But we didn't want to maketoday about selling, but that is
(30:52):
one of the areas that I thinkpeople could really start to see
how they could apply it withintheir business.
MC (30:56):
Amazing, barry.
Thanks so much for joining meon the Dealer Playbook.
No thanks, it's great to seeyou again, mike.
Yeah, likewise.
Hey.
Thanks for listening to theDealer Playbook podcast.
If you enjoyed tuning in,please subscribe, share and hit
that like button.
You can also join us and theDPB community on social media.
Check back next week for a newDealer Playbook episode.
Thanks so much for joining.
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