May 20, 2025 • 30 mins
In this episode of The Digital Marketing Podcast, Daniel dives into the world of agile marketing, exploring how a new methodology is helping marketers launch strategic, high-impact campaigns at pace, without compromising on quality. Joined by Peter Abraham (former Econsultancy leader and founder of Crank), alongside Katherine Torrance and Claire Pankhurst, the creators of Supercharged Marketing Sprints, Daniel unpacks a new approach to growth marketing that blends the speed of agile with the strategic rigour marketing has been missing. The team explain how their 5-day sprint framework works in practice - coaching marketing teams to develop and launch live, multichannel campaigns in just a week. Unlike traditional brainstorming workshops that leave great ideas gathering dust, this sprint ends with a live campaign in market, backed by real data and customer insight. Together, they explore how this approach helps businesses: Build high-performing campaigns under intense time constraints Cut through campaign chaos and internal delays Deliver strategic focus without sacrificing speed Align stakeholders quickly around a shared goal Create minimum viable campaigns (MVCs) that actually launch More than just a framework, this is a practical, tested process grounded in real-world experience. Peter shares his initial scepticism, and eventual surprise, at seeing these sprints succeed where other methods stall. Catherine and Claire outline how their structure gives marketing teams space for deep thinking and rapid deployment. They also share how AI tools (like headline generation and campaign planning assistants) are used to speed up the creative process, while still relying on human judgement and strategic thinking. This episode is packed with lessons for marketers frustrated by slow timelines, campaign bottlenecks, and chaotic execution cycles. Daniel and his guests lay out how to shift away from “tactics-first” thinking and instead build campaigns rooted in buyer insight, stakeholder alignment, and clear, testable outcomes. Key Takeaways: Why agile principles need evolution for modern marketing How 5-day sprints help teams go from messy ideas to market-ready campaigns The crucial role of stakeholder alignment and constrained planning How AI can complement (not replace) creative strategy How to build minimum viable campaigns with maximum impact Why fast isn’t enough—campaigns must be focused and aligned Whether you’re a CMO looking for a faster way to deliver results, or a team lead trying to cut through the clutter, this episode offers an inspiring look at what marketing agility really looks like in action. 🎧 Listen now and get your complete step-by-step guide. You'll find all links on TargetInternet.com Show notes: Have any feedback on the show? Send us your feedback, tell us what you love and what you think could be better. And, if you are really enjoying the show, please leave us a review.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Daniel Rowles (00:00):
Welcome back to the Digital Marketing Podcast, brought
(00:02):
to you by Target internet.com.
This episode we're talkingabout agile marketing.
So the idea of agile marketing is onethat I think is a little bit misunderstood
because quite often we see agile.
(00:24):
From a project management, softwaredevelopment point of view, but
actually seeing it in practicalterms, how it's applied in marketing.
You don't see that often.
Now, if you, if you're not familiar,just the definition of, of Agile, uh, is
project management, software developmentthat emphasizes iterative development,
collaboration, and flexibility inresponse to change requirements.
It's characterized by short cycles ofplanning, development, and testing,
(00:46):
allowing teams to adapt and improvetheir product throughout the project.
So the idea is that wework in these sprints.
These short cycles and there's somesort of deliverable at the end of them.
Well, I always had one of my regularmeetups with Peter Abraham, so
Peter Abraham's friend of mine,he was econsultancy, and was one
of the kind of first people there.
And then he's written, a great book.
(01:07):
On agility, uh, and agileorganizations really from a
digital transformation perspective.
And now he runs an agency calledCrank, and we have one of our regular
meetups where we just kind of chatwhat's changing and what's new.
And he said, oh, I've beenworking on this thing called these
supercharged marketing sprints.
And I want you to kind of find out aboutit because it's, I didn't think it would
(01:27):
work, but it, it's really incredible.
So they in set up this interview, soI've got an interview with Peter, who
runs Crank, but also the two people thatfounded Supercharged Marketing Sprints.
Catherine Torrance and Claire Hurst.
So I've got an interview withCatherine, Claire and Peter where we
(01:48):
go through the approach they've beentaking to these, what they're calling
supercharged, marketing sprints.
But what they've got for usis a step-by-step approach.
To how they do it, but also a brilliantdownloadable that gives you a kind
of step-by-step checklist that youcan take away and use, uh, as well.
So, as ever, target internet.com/podcast.
(02:08):
But I think you're gonnaget a lot from this.
So, over to the interview.
Let's just get straight into it.
So what are supercharge marketingsprints and how does it kind of differ
from different approaches to marketing?
I.
Katherine Torrence (02:22):
So, supercharge Marketing Sprints is
a new approach really to growthmarketing that helps teams build.
Strategic campaign and launchthem fast because we know
there's this pressure to deliver.
So they're about strategic rigorand execution and combining
those two things doing marketingnow in two speeds, and fast.
(02:43):
just fast isn't good enough.
And so it's we think it's anevolution of agile marketing.
it combines the pace, the focus of agilewith the rigors of marketing fundamentals.
And so what that looks like is a fiveday workshop style sprint and that we
coach marketing teams through and wereally focus on a collaborative effort.
(03:03):
so we plug into the company'sprocess, wherever kind of
momentum is really important.
So that can be pipeline accelerationcampaigns, that could be customer
campaigns, that could be enteringa new territory or a new market
segment, like big market for example.
Could also be quarterlyor yearly planning.
So the sprint methodology is reallyflexible to whatever the needs are.
(03:25):
And so it's really based on our expertise,having delivered hundreds of campaigns
you know, high performing strategicgrowth campaigns during our careers.
And we've kind of solved the problemsof campaigns that miss the mark.
We've packaged up thatexpertise so we can do it.
We well and fast and coach teams up as.
Daniel Rowles (03:44):
So I was really interested 'cause Peter was speaking to me about this
and he said when you came to him and saidyou were gonna do it in a week, he didn't.
Believe you and was basically justlike, yeah, that can't be done.
I don't think so.
I mean, Peter, talk me through whatyour thinking was and then your delight
and surprise of how it all worked.
Peter Abraham (03:57):
Yeah, I think, there's so many different
elements to that, isn't there?
There's the team.
So making sure that you've got a teamthat together and really want to,
you know, make sure that they whatit is they're trying to achieve in
the limited time that you've got.
I mean, a week is really, is a reallyshort timeframe, I think, you know,
having been through a couple of thesenow the understanding that Catherine
(04:20):
and Claire have around how you.
you kind of organize and runthat week is really important.
So, having a focus objective, havinglimited scope so making sure that
you know, you don't try and dosomething that's completely unwieldy.
the rapid deployment piece, particularlywith the campaigns, you know, you really
(04:41):
have to have some of those elements.
In place kind of to start with.
'cause that's gonna kind of take minimumtwo days to set the campaign up itself.
same with the metrics.
You've gotta make sure that youare not, you know, you're not
trying to measure everything.
Be very.
Keen about what it is thatyou want as an outcome.
(05:01):
I mean, we, I think one of the things thatwe had, which I thought was brilliant,
was almost like everything on one page.
So you can see what is itthat the business does?
What are you trying to achieve?
Not just from the sales perspective,the sales team perspective, but right
the way across from marketing and sales.
and then obviously it'san intuitive approach.
(05:23):
So once you start, youknow, that's the first bit.
Then you've gotta wait, get somedata, then make some changes.
So, yeah, I didn't think you coulddo it in a week, two weeks maybe.
So I was quite surprised.
Yeah, that you can do it in a week.
Daniel Rowles (05:38):
So it's a brilliant, so I mean, what was it that led you
to create this in the first place?
'cause I think that will kind of give somecontext to the audience in terms of why
this is such a great thing and how theymight apply it to different situations.
Katherine Torrence (05:47):
Sure.
I think there are sort ofthree things that led us here.
So the first is, this isthis hard environment, so.
I mean, marketing's always beendifficult, but when there was
lots of free money there was lessexposure, things weren't perfect.
Now we're in an environment whereevery penny counts and people are
being asked to do more with a lot less.
So, that was one thing.
(06:08):
The other is this notion that not somuch that old processes are broken,
but they aren't enough anymore for cut.
So if you think about tech and SA.
Really, they're commoditized productsright now,, because they're not new
anymore and features are catchingup, there's constant releases.
So your marketing reallyneeds to work hard.
Buyers are changing.
(06:28):
demanding a lot more.
They're doing a lot more self-educating.
So, addressing that in, in apositive way and helping teams.
to grips with what buyers arethinking was really important.
And then you know, Claire and I gointo lots of businesses, so we see
campaign chaos, the struggle to getthem out the door, how messy they are,
(06:49):
tears in the toilet sort of stuff.
And we know there's a better way.
I don't think it's fair to ask.
Marketing teams to work harder 'causewe know they're working flat out.
But for sure we can help themwork smarter and more effectively.
Claire Pankhurst (07:07):
Just around the fact that, you know, we know how messy that
they can be and it's also the business asusual side that typically gets in the way.
So, you know, it is not only.
Trying to do something that's verystrategic and matters to the business,
but that the fact that you've gotall of this other stuff going on.
So, you know, I don't think it'sthat teams are lacking in the ideas.
(07:31):
It is that they're lacking thatspace and structure to be able to get
the you know, to actually make thatcampaign real and get it out the door.
Daniel Rowles (07:37):
So that, that brings to the next point, which is like, how
are they different from just workingfaster or running internal workshops?
Like how does that, what agile processesdo you bring into the whole thing?
Because we hear about Agile spoken about alot and I think for our audience, I. They
might be familiar with the idea of agile.
They probably heard it used in developmentfrom a kind of technical development point
of view, but seeing how it's applied inmarketing is a really interesting one.
(07:58):
And I think that kind ofstructured approach, so, you
know, how is it different fromjust running internal workshops?
Claire Pankhurst (08:03):
I just wanna kick off with by saying it.
Yeah.
It came from the Google Venturesmethodology of the five days sprint,
so it started in product design.
From that we've evolved it and takenthe marketing fundamentals and built
those out, and then Catherine'sgiven it the structure that she does
so beautifully around being ableto deliver it in such a punchy way.
(08:26):
so I think it's, it is very differentfrom just a workshop because it has, you
know, the structure to support the team.
So we work collaboratively throughoutthe process in a very lean way as well.
So we're making sure that we're maximizingthe use of time through the people
that we've got on our sprint team, andthen also maximizing the time of the
(08:48):
people, you know, the stakeholders thatwe are bringing in for those expert
interviews so we can capture that.
Katherine Torrence (08:53):
Didn't necessarily set out to be agile to be honest, we
set out to just fix a problem, whatwe saw and we were encountering.
But it just so happens that the kind of,you know, in the big picture, focusing
down on the critical path, understandingwhat's most important to do first.
and then learning as you go and beingkind of collaborative you know, open
(09:17):
to a certain point, but then whenyou cut, you know when it's time to
cut things off, you cut off and move.
So, so we've kind of takenthat mindset of moving quickly.
But we also wanted to leave space for thedeep thinking, and I think this is where
it's sort of evolves agile potentially.
And it's different from just doinga workshop because a lot of times
workshops you do deep thinking, you.
(09:39):
Lots of stuff on paper, all over wallsthat never, ever sees the light of day
or gets used beyond that good feeling.
And so it's, it moves agile along, itbrings back the marketing fundamentals,
but then at the end of them.
The process.
You've got something that's live in marketand teams have, you know, a messaging
(09:59):
hierarchy, a really well mapped buyer,our journey, understanding of the customer
pain points and what you need to address.
And also a really nice deck thatwe kind of prepare along with them,
branded up in, in their brand.
That they can then share back into thebusiness, so to stakeholders, whatever.
So it's.
Daniel Rowles (10:21):
So what problems are you kind of, are these sprints fixing
because where do you see these growthmarketing campaigns falling over?
Peter Abraham (10:28):
I think a lot of them are very tactical.
A lot of the stuff that you seethese days is very tactical.
There isn't a lot of strategy,which is why I think it's good
that these move back to strategy.
Even if we're touching it in quitea light way, we're kind of taking it
all on board and then again, you know,condensing that into something that's
really very focused, like super focused.
(10:50):
I think that's the other thingthat's different with it the degree
with agile marketing is that.
Agile marketing tends to be on stuffthat's, you know, very well versed in
terms of the frameworks that peopleuse or the channels that they use.
Whereas, you know, we're startingright at the beginning from day one,
looking at the strategy and thencondensing that right down and focusing
(11:11):
on it and driving it from there.
So that's the main thing.
I think there's far too many tacticsacross far too many channels sometimes
just to go back and say actually.
And the way that we do thingsis that are we missing a trick?
Are we not doing what weshould really be doing?
And we're just getting stuff out the door.
Claire Pankhurst (11:31):
We've all been there, I'm sure, where you get given
a list of like 10 products that youhave to sell and, you know, this is
the laundry list of stuff to do and,you know, almost checkbox go tick.
Yep.
Gotta get something out the door.
Hit our KPIs for this,that, and the other.
And then, sometimes you just missthe mark of actually sitting down and
(11:52):
going, okay, who are we selling to?
Why do they even care about this?
Like, how can we differentiatethis compared to everybody else?
And that other noisethat's out in the market.
So what I really love about this isalmost, it's, it gives you the speed, but
it also gives you the direction of travel.
Because speed withoutdirection is just chaos, right?
(12:13):
It's, you know, we've all been inthose kind of chaotic examples.
And obviously with, if you're justgoing into a direction without that
speed, then you've also got therisk of missing the opportunity.
Daniel Rowles (12:24):
Yeah I mean, I feel this every day at the moment in terms of
the amount of stuff that's happeningwith generative AI and everything else.
And we're just, oh, I've gotta getthis out the door and out the door and
there's these social media channels.
And I love this idea of taking astep back, bringing the right people
in, going back to, to, to basics.
You know, what are we trying to achieve?
Who are we achieving it for?
Claire Pankhurst (12:40):
So, it's a five day workshop, but we
are working with the team.
So we've appointed, you know, asprint leader from the organization.
We've also bought in somebodywho can manage the campaigns.
So they're responsible for the actualexecution of getting this out the door.
And just to clarify, when we'retalking about campaigns, it
isn't a just a single channel.
We're not talking just, you know, anemail campaign or a social media campaign.
(13:03):
These are multi-channel.
Sort of multi execution.
So it needs to have somebody who'sgot that say so and authority
across the business to be ableto make decisions in the room.
And so they've typically beengiven that authority by perhaps
somebody else, A CMO or anotherstakeholder within the business.
So when we are thinking about.
(13:23):
You know, day one we are lookingat how do, what is the actual goal
that we're trying to achieve here?
And typically people sometimesmiss that completely.
And they go straight into, okay,what channel are we gonna use?
What tactics are we going to use?
So if we think what's the goalof this campaign set that then
(13:44):
we get alignment across the team.
To ensure that is the correct goal.
'cause again, that'ssomething that can get missed.
And then in day two, wemove into the planning.
So this is a real marketing team daywhere we actually start to look at,
okay who are the audience, as I said,you know, who is this going out to?
at the messaging frameworkand the hierarchy.
(14:05):
So what's our lead message here?
What's the most important thingthat's gonna resonate the most
with this particular audience?
And then we look at channels, budgetand forecast, and pull that together
into a campaign plan so everybodyknows, you know, what we're trying
to achieve, who we're sending it to,what we're saying, what channels,
and how much it's likely to cost.
(14:26):
And that's where we typically bring inPeter and Crank to be able to support
around, okay, if we are looking at paidmedia here, how bringing in the budget
and the forecast around that also.
Day three, we move intothe copy and design day.
So we are actually working onthe hero copy and the visuals.
(14:48):
And so either they've got an in-house teamor you know, perhaps a designer that could
work with us for that day, to be able topull together the key campaign assets.
And again, we're not looking ata whole deck full of staff here.
We are looking at what do we needfor a minimum viable campaign.
Once we are happy with that, wecan move into day four, which
(15:11):
is a real collaboration day.
And this is like, let's see whatwe've got, what's in progress.
We can share that back to thestakeholders and review and approve.
And what I didn't mention either was thatthis we've already had our stakeholder.
Interviews on day one.
So we've pulled in the key stakeholderswho might be sales, they might be
(15:35):
the CMO, you know, they're, theseare the inputs that we will use to
drive some of the messaging as well,to make sure that's really key.
Katherine Torrence (15:44):
One of the really kind of potent points is when you're
bringing these people on, it could, youknow, there's all this information that's
locked within the business and a lot oftimes marketing doesn't have access to it.
There are all these people,you know, customer success who
are frontline with customers.
All the time.
And they know the language, theyknow the jargon people are using
and that really can infuse marketingwith so much meaning and be so
(16:07):
much more impactful when it lands.
So, so that first day of gettingthe stakeholders we were in a
sprint and on day one, the CMO,sales lead and the director who
was kind of driving the project allhad different visions of the goal.
They have different visions ofwhich product we'd be promoted and.
(16:28):
They were more or less aligned on theaudience, but they had, there was only
a very top line view of who the ICP wasand who the personas within the ICP were.
And then nobody was reallyclear on the buyer journey.
So in day one it was like,okay, then we proved the point.
They're bringing all these peopletogether in a brief but purposeful.
(16:48):
Session is really worthwhile.
We discovered that within thefirst hour of the sprint, luckily.
Claire Pankhurst (16:56):
No, but it could happen, you know, we know I've been
seen it where you've built out thatcampaign and then you're sharing it
back to the business, all excitedand buzzing, and then it's like, ah,
no, actually we needed it for that.
Peter Abraham (17:07):
We're not always bringing these people in, you know, full time.
Like you might work for a WarRoom ifyou were doing something specific.
You know, we have that initial, likeCatherine said, you have that initial.
period where you bring everybodytogether and then you might separate
and then you might pull in otherpeople as you go through the process.
And I think that's really keybecause everybody's time is poor.
(17:28):
You do need stakeholders thatare, you know, driving it.
They need to be full on for a week.
But yeah, beyond that, it'skind of here and there.
You're pulling in thespecialists when you need them.
specialist knowledge.
Daniel Rowles (17:41):
And then when they've kind of got through to the end.
The sprint, what's the, what arethe deliverables they're gonna kinda
walk away with by the end of this?
Katherine Torrence (17:47):
So we've got what we call the minimum viable campaign.
So that's.
The critical path set of assets.
And it could be anywherewithin the funnel.
So what we do kind of upfront is identifywhere's the blockage in the funnel.
So you might have a campaign that'sfull funnel, you know, from awareness
all the way down to decision purchase.
But it could be that you've got a realblocker moving people from awareness
into consideration, for example.
(18:09):
And you might see that inyour marketing funnel in.
In your sales pipeline.
And so we'll look to identifythat blocker and unblock it.
And so that could look likeLinkedIn ads to a landing page that
could look like press releases.
That could look like athought leadership piece.
The kind of critical criteria forthe minimum viable campaign is
(18:29):
something that can be achieved withinthe team that you have access to.
So, you know, in-house designeror a designer that we bring in.
Copywriting, which, you know, whichwe can do, in and amongst ourselves.
And it's important to not kind of biteoff more than a team can chew in terms
of, we might not do a full microsite,but we might do a landing page and
(18:51):
we might use assets that are alreadycreated but top entail them differently.
you get that.
We have a customer journey map.
We've got the messaging hierarchy,a campaign hierarchy with the
channels, a forecast associatedwith that ums media plan and that.
either, it can be one channel, wecan look at a number of channels.
Obviously the more we add on that takesa little bit more time, but it, you know,
(19:14):
if it knocks over into a little bit afterthe sprint, usually that's not an issue.
So, so what's the media strategy?
And then the forecast for that andthe budgeting associated with it.
And then like I was saying, you getthe kind of the full package, so all
of that, so the mirror board, becausewhen we're not face to face, we do
this on a mirror board, so they getthe mirror board and then they get the
(19:35):
individual component parts and theneverything wrapped up into a nice deck
Daniel Rowles (19:39):
Right.
And so from that, how do you make surethat stuff is good, not just fast?
So, 'cause the risk is you kind of,you bring the right people together,
you get the buy-in, you go through theprocess, you go, we're gonna solve this
pain point, we build a campaign quickly.
How do you make sure that's actuallygonna be effective, not just done quickly,
Peter Abraham (19:55):
So definitely using the paid 'cause, paid media is the fastest.
It gives you the fastest
Daniel Rowles (20:00):
right.
Peter Abraham (20:00):
in terms of identifying the right audiences, the right
messages, the right creative,whatever creative you're using.
So, you know, typically wemight start with B2B, LinkedIn.
that will give you the depth.
'cause you can obviously focuson people's interests and skills,
not just their kind of job titleswithin different industry sectors.
Some of that will also give us a senseof how kind of large that audience
(20:24):
is, particularly if you are workingwith a BM, and the ICP type approach.
And then obviously the Google which,the Google side of things, Google Ads,
which gives you the breadth and intent.
So those two things together very quickly,you know, give you some indicators you'll
get an indicator within kind of 24 hours.
there are kind of allsorts of factors in this.
(20:46):
But you might have to wait.
I usually we say wait, kind ofa week before you get a really
decent amount of data and fourweeks, if you wait four weeks, that
gives you a month's worth of data.
Then you can allow forall sorts of other things.
'cause you've gotta allow forseasonality and those kind of things.
But if you take.
If you take that foundation and you pickthat up, then you can start to deploy
(21:07):
that across some of the other channels.
So you are already starting on thatmomentum of you've already identified
the audience, you know, kind of whatthe messages are, know what the success
metrics that you are looking for are.
You have a budget, you know howlong that budget is gonna last.
That's the other thing, you know,we haven't all got deep pockets.
We can't just run forever.
So.
Daniel Rowles (21:27):
And do, does AI come into this at all in terms of how
using AI technology in the sprints.
Peter Abraham (21:32):
Yeah, it does.
We've got a couple of toolsourselves within Crank that we use.
But I think more and more what we,I think what we've learned is as we
run these, there are certain thingsthat we can lean on to bring the
AI kind of agency, and I wouldn'tnecessarily say that AI is a big thing.
It helps give you the speed providingyou know what you're doing, then
(21:56):
it definitely can give you speed.
So, I mean, a really, asimple example, writing copy
headlines can take a long time.
We can do that in 30 seconds.
Daniel Rowles (22:05):
Yeah I think it's interesting because if you take this
kind of agile approach and then you bakeAI into it as well, you're just gonna
enable some of those things that werejust taken too long before as well.
So what are the common challenges thenthat teams are facing when they're kind of
transitioning to this new way of workingand how do you kinda work through that?
Claire Pankhurst (22:22):
It's definitely a mindset shift for a lot of people
because they're so used to doing how,you know, working, how they work.
so I think open-mindedness is akey sort of value that we bring in.
And we identified when we're speakingto people initially, that they've
got that right mindset to be able to,leave their ego at the door almost.
Because we are all in this together.
(22:42):
There's no, we are not sort ofdictating or, commanding that
it has to be done this way.
So there's no rigid.
Process, but it's just a case of wewill hold that structure and space.
And asking the right questionsat the right time to be able to
get, you know, the best outcome.
So I think for the actual teamitself, it's just important to have
(23:05):
that right mindset from the outset.
Peter Abraham (23:08):
Also think from a kind of CMO or head of marketing
perspective, sometimes they mightbe thinking how come we're so slow?
Why is this stuff taking so long?
Why, you know, why can'tI see results faster?
and taking this approach, ifyou kind of just run it once.
It will start to open your eyesto understand actually I could be
(23:28):
more agile in certain approaches.
You're not gonna run everything like this,but it will definitely open your eyes
to different ways of working at speedand then, yeah what have we learned?
What can we take back?
What would we change?
Those kind of thingsI think are important.
Katherine Torrence (23:43):
I think there are two fundamental challenges to add.
One is that this belief that technologyand tools equals great marketing.
And so I can just go straightto tactics and channels and kind
of, you know, take some wordingfrom the website and off I go.
And so I think that mindset thatyou can move fast, but you can also.
(24:05):
Is important.
And I think that there's a belief thatsomehow strategy is time consuming.
And it is.
I mean, it's not to say that you canbe brilliant in 10 seconds or less but
the business has that intelligence.
So if you take the time to hooverit up and infuse it into the
marketing that'll make things better.
And I think that is a big strategicshift as opposed to just like, you
(24:26):
know, run to the channels, run to the.
Peter Abraham (24:30):
I think the other important thing to mention is that it's not
like we're taking control of anything.
we're doing is using a methodology to.
Kind of some results quickly,and then hand it over.
it's a terrible kind of analogy,but it's a bit like getting the SAS
to start a campaign off and then,you get the troops to follow it up.
(24:52):
It's a similar kind of thing.
So either your marketing team willpick it up and continue with it.
yeah, or the agency will
Daniel Rowles (24:59):
and from that point of view then, so how are you
measuring success of the sprint?
Katherine Torrence (25:04):
Sure.
We have three things that we measure.
So the first one and reallyimportantly because Sprint is.
So client feedback, wasthe process effective?
Would they try it on their own?
Did they learn something?
Were they exposed tosomething that they before?
So that's number one.
And then we look at the leadingindicators, like Peter was saying,
(25:26):
from the minimum viable campaign or.
And then we look at didit achieve its goal?
So this part is a little bit harder for usto control because like Peter was saying,
we, you know, we hand it back to the team.
You know, we co-create, we guide,we use our experience to kind
of set people in direction.
But then it's down to them to carryon and do what they're really good at.
(25:48):
It's sort of, it's acatalyst for this success.
And.
Peter Abraham (25:56):
yeah, one stage, I think I said to Catherine it was, it
feels a bit like you've got a mentorand a coach in the same room at the
Daniel Rowles (26:04):
Right.
Peter Abraham (26:04):
so yeah.
Daniel Rowles (26:05):
No, I love that.
I love that approach.
So you've got some big brands mightfollow up with you after this and come
through to you, but if somebody can'tdo a sprint with you, they can't afford
it . What could they take away from thisand how could they apply that today?
Katherine Torrence (26:17):
I think there are kind of two techniques that
they could try on their own.
And this is, you know, it's this aboutkind of carving out the time to do it
Daniel Rowles (26:25):
Right.
Katherine Torrence (26:25):
hard to do and not.
Letting via you get in the way.
But I think mapping the journeyfrom the buyer's point of
view is critically important.
And if you use that as your northstar what experience are they having?
What questions are they asking?
And put yourself in their mindsetand use, I need to do this.
I'm struggling with that.
As opposed to, you know, are buyersare encountering these challenges
(26:47):
during the course of their workday.
Really get into their mind, theirlingo and the way they talk.
Number one.
And then when you are thinkingabout your most valuable use
cases that meet their pain points,again, describe it in their words.
It's not about what youwant to say to them.
It's about what theyneed to hear from you.
Daniel Rowles (27:04):
Right,
Katherine Torrence (27:04):
can do those two things sort of in your everyday
practice when you're creating yourmarketing materials, I think it could.
Peter Abraham (27:13):
We've
Daniel Rowles (27:13):
and
Peter Abraham (27:13):
this, we've also written a short guide, so, which yeah, everybody
can probably download from the site,
Daniel Rowles (27:19):
exactly.
So we'll put the link in the shownotes, so target internet.com/podcast
and you'll be able download that kindof step by step guide and get some
kind of pointers from that as well.
So we've talked about whatpeople can apply from this.
I mean, what do you thinkpeople should not be doing?
What if there was one thingmarketers should stop doing?
What would it be that's kind ofgetting in the way of all of this?
Claire Pankhurst (27:37):
I think the one thing is definitely just to, when you
get taught, when know when someoneapproaches you about this, to not just
jump straight into those tactics andtools and to actually, put yourself in
the prospect's shoes and think about,okay, so I. What is it that they want?
Who do we, who have we sold to?
That's in, similar either productsand looking back perhaps through your
(27:59):
CRM data or your win-loss data, andalso just looping in people that can
give you some really key insightsso that you can use those insights
to build out a quality campaign.
and then think about themessaging, because quite often
that's what Lands Flat is.
You know, it is not how it's beenpumped out or your distribution
(28:20):
or anything like that.
It's that the messaging didn'tresonate, it didn't feel, you didn't
feel it in your chest when youread that, you know, and that per
that company understands who I am.
Peter Abraham (28:30):
I'd also say it's also not what should they stop doing,
but what should they start doing?
So I think it a couple oftimes, but the constraints.
Constraints are really good.
If you ask any
Daniel Rowles (28:40):
Right.
Peter Abraham (28:40):
person, they'll tell you.
If you give everybody loads of roomto maneuver, it makes it really hard.
And I think a lot of the time that'shalf of the problem is that constrain
stuff enough to be able to go,okay, now we know what the customers
experience, we know what the problemis, we know what the message is, we
know, you know, those kind of things.
So yeah that's probably the big thingfor me, that's part of the agility
(29:03):
if is it's small things quicker.
It's not big things faster.
Daniel Rowles (29:09):
I'm not I love this approach of bringing the right
stakeholders in, constraining theperiod of time that you're gonna do it.
Focus on one particular problem.
Go through, truly understand what'sgonna resonate with the target
audience, and then build thatinto a structured process now.
And I like the fact that there's an outputthat then they're gonna take away and
run with because too many design thinkingworkshops and innovation workshops
I've done end up with loads of stuffon paper as exactly as Catherine said.
(29:31):
And you walk away and go, that was fine.
That were brilliant ideas.
And then six months later, oh, wehaven't done anything with that.
So,
Peter Abraham (29:37):
After a week, you get a campaign.
Daniel Rowles (29:38):
yeah.
Peter Abraham (29:39):
live so
Daniel Rowles (29:40):
Yeah.
Peter Abraham (29:41):
You can
Daniel Rowles (29:41):
So it's happening.
Yeah.
Peter Abraham (29:42):
Yeah, you can see the data.
So
Daniel Rowles (29:45):
Alright.
I love it and I think that the overwhelmthat all marketers are feeling at the
moment and, you know, trying to doall things, you end up doing nothing.
So, where can people learn more?
Where should they go to findout a bit more about this stuff?
Katherine Torrence (29:56):
Sure they can go to supercharge marketing sprints.com.
And they're welcome to connect withClaire, with myself, Catherine Torrance.
Peter I'm gonna volunteeryou for connection as well.
So,
Peter Abraham (30:07):
You sure.
Katherine Torrence (30:08):
Hurst, Catherine Torrance and Peter Abraham.
And we'd be happy to, yeah shareknowledge and help how we can.
Daniel Rowles (30:13):
Brilliant stuff.
We'll put all of those linksfor the LinkedIn profiles and
the website and everything elseinto the show notes as well.
And other than that, thank you Claire,Catherine and Peter for joining us today.
For more episodes, resources toleave a review or to get in contact,
go to target internet.com/podcast.
Welcome back to the Digital Marketing Podcast, brought
(00:02):
to you by Target internet.com.
This episode we're talkingabout agile marketing.
So the idea of agile marketing is onethat I think is a little bit misunderstood
because quite often we see agile.
(00:24):
From a project management, softwaredevelopment point of view, but
actually seeing it in practicalterms, how it's applied in marketing.
You don't see that often.
Now, if you, if you're not familiar,just the definition of, of Agile, uh, is
project management, software developmentthat emphasizes iterative development,
collaboration, and flexibility inresponse to change requirements.
It's characterized by short cycles ofplanning, development, and testing,
(00:46):
allowing teams to adapt and improvetheir product throughout the project.
So the idea is that wework in these sprints.
These short cycles and there's somesort of deliverable at the end of them.
Well, I always had one of my regularmeetups with Peter Abraham, so
Peter Abraham's friend of mine,he was econsultancy, and was one
of the kind of first people there.
And then he's written, a great book.
(01:07):
On agility, uh, and agileorganizations really from a
digital transformation perspective.
And now he runs an agency calledCrank, and we have one of our regular
meetups where we just kind of chatwhat's changing and what's new.
And he said, oh, I've beenworking on this thing called these
supercharged marketing sprints.
And I want you to kind of find out aboutit because it's, I didn't think it would
(01:27):
work, but it, it's really incredible.
So they in set up this interview, soI've got an interview with Peter, who
runs Crank, but also the two people thatfounded Supercharged Marketing Sprints.
Catherine Torrance and Claire Hurst.
So I've got an interview withCatherine, Claire and Peter where we
(01:48):
go through the approach they've beentaking to these, what they're calling
supercharged, marketing sprints.
But what they've got for usis a step-by-step approach.
To how they do it, but also a brilliantdownloadable that gives you a kind
of step-by-step checklist that youcan take away and use, uh, as well.
So, as ever, target internet.com/podcast.
(02:08):
But I think you're gonnaget a lot from this.
So, over to the interview.
Let's just get straight into it.
So what are supercharge marketingsprints and how does it kind of differ
from different approaches to marketing?
I.
Katherine Torrence (02:22):
So, supercharge Marketing Sprints is
a new approach really to growthmarketing that helps teams build.
Strategic campaign and launchthem fast because we know
there's this pressure to deliver.
So they're about strategic rigorand execution and combining
those two things doing marketingnow in two speeds, and fast.
(02:43):
just fast isn't good enough.
And so it's we think it's anevolution of agile marketing.
it combines the pace, the focus of agilewith the rigors of marketing fundamentals.
And so what that looks like is a fiveday workshop style sprint and that we
coach marketing teams through and wereally focus on a collaborative effort.
(03:03):
so we plug into the company'sprocess, wherever kind of
momentum is really important.
So that can be pipeline accelerationcampaigns, that could be customer
campaigns, that could be enteringa new territory or a new market
segment, like big market for example.
Could also be quarterlyor yearly planning.
So the sprint methodology is reallyflexible to whatever the needs are.
(03:25):
And so it's really based on our expertise,having delivered hundreds of campaigns
you know, high performing strategicgrowth campaigns during our careers.
And we've kind of solved the problemsof campaigns that miss the mark.
We've packaged up thatexpertise so we can do it.
We well and fast and coach teams up as.
Daniel Rowles (03:44):
So I was really interested 'cause Peter was speaking to me about this
and he said when you came to him and saidyou were gonna do it in a week, he didn't.
Believe you and was basically justlike, yeah, that can't be done.
I don't think so.
I mean, Peter, talk me through whatyour thinking was and then your delight
and surprise of how it all worked.
Peter Abraham (03:57):
Yeah, I think, there's so many different
elements to that, isn't there?
There's the team.
So making sure that you've got a teamthat together and really want to,
you know, make sure that they whatit is they're trying to achieve in
the limited time that you've got.
I mean, a week is really, is a reallyshort timeframe, I think, you know,
having been through a couple of thesenow the understanding that Catherine
(04:20):
and Claire have around how you.
you kind of organize and runthat week is really important.
So, having a focus objective, havinglimited scope so making sure that
you know, you don't try and dosomething that's completely unwieldy.
the rapid deployment piece, particularlywith the campaigns, you know, you really
(04:41):
have to have some of those elements.
In place kind of to start with.
'cause that's gonna kind of take minimumtwo days to set the campaign up itself.
same with the metrics.
You've gotta make sure that youare not, you know, you're not
trying to measure everything.
Be very.
Keen about what it is thatyou want as an outcome.
(05:01):
I mean, we, I think one of the things thatwe had, which I thought was brilliant,
was almost like everything on one page.
So you can see what is itthat the business does?
What are you trying to achieve?
Not just from the sales perspective,the sales team perspective, but right
the way across from marketing and sales.
and then obviously it'san intuitive approach.
(05:23):
So once you start, youknow, that's the first bit.
Then you've gotta wait, get somedata, then make some changes.
So, yeah, I didn't think you coulddo it in a week, two weeks maybe.
So I was quite surprised.
Yeah, that you can do it in a week.
Daniel Rowles (05:38):
So it's a brilliant, so I mean, what was it that led you
to create this in the first place?
'cause I think that will kind of give somecontext to the audience in terms of why
this is such a great thing and how theymight apply it to different situations.
Katherine Torrence (05:47):
Sure.
I think there are sort ofthree things that led us here.
So the first is, this isthis hard environment, so.
I mean, marketing's always beendifficult, but when there was
lots of free money there was lessexposure, things weren't perfect.
Now we're in an environment whereevery penny counts and people are
being asked to do more with a lot less.
So, that was one thing.
(06:08):
The other is this notion that not somuch that old processes are broken,
but they aren't enough anymore for cut.
So if you think about tech and SA.
Really, they're commoditized productsright now,, because they're not new
anymore and features are catchingup, there's constant releases.
So your marketing reallyneeds to work hard.
Buyers are changing.
(06:28):
demanding a lot more.
They're doing a lot more self-educating.
So, addressing that in, in apositive way and helping teams.
to grips with what buyers arethinking was really important.
And then you know, Claire and I gointo lots of businesses, so we see
campaign chaos, the struggle to getthem out the door, how messy they are,
(06:49):
tears in the toilet sort of stuff.
And we know there's a better way.
I don't think it's fair to ask.
Marketing teams to work harder 'causewe know they're working flat out.
But for sure we can help themwork smarter and more effectively.
Claire Pankhurst (07:07):
Just around the fact that, you know, we know how messy that
they can be and it's also the business asusual side that typically gets in the way.
So, you know, it is not only.
Trying to do something that's verystrategic and matters to the business,
but that the fact that you've gotall of this other stuff going on.
So, you know, I don't think it'sthat teams are lacking in the ideas.
(07:31):
It is that they're lacking thatspace and structure to be able to get
the you know, to actually make thatcampaign real and get it out the door.
Daniel Rowles (07:37):
So that, that brings to the next point, which is like, how
are they different from just workingfaster or running internal workshops?
Like how does that, what agile processesdo you bring into the whole thing?
Because we hear about Agile spoken about alot and I think for our audience, I. They
might be familiar with the idea of agile.
They probably heard it used in developmentfrom a kind of technical development point
of view, but seeing how it's applied inmarketing is a really interesting one.
(07:58):
And I think that kind ofstructured approach, so, you
know, how is it different fromjust running internal workshops?
Claire Pankhurst (08:03):
I just wanna kick off with by saying it.
Yeah.
It came from the Google Venturesmethodology of the five days sprint,
so it started in product design.
From that we've evolved it and takenthe marketing fundamentals and built
those out, and then Catherine'sgiven it the structure that she does
so beautifully around being ableto deliver it in such a punchy way.
(08:26):
so I think it's, it is very differentfrom just a workshop because it has, you
know, the structure to support the team.
So we work collaboratively throughoutthe process in a very lean way as well.
So we're making sure that we're maximizingthe use of time through the people
that we've got on our sprint team, andthen also maximizing the time of the
(08:48):
people, you know, the stakeholders thatwe are bringing in for those expert
interviews so we can capture that.
Katherine Torrence (08:53):
Didn't necessarily set out to be agile to be honest, we
set out to just fix a problem, whatwe saw and we were encountering.
But it just so happens that the kind of,you know, in the big picture, focusing
down on the critical path, understandingwhat's most important to do first.
and then learning as you go and beingkind of collaborative you know, open
(09:17):
to a certain point, but then whenyou cut, you know when it's time to
cut things off, you cut off and move.
So, so we've kind of takenthat mindset of moving quickly.
But we also wanted to leave space for thedeep thinking, and I think this is where
it's sort of evolves agile potentially.
And it's different from just doinga workshop because a lot of times
workshops you do deep thinking, you.
(09:39):
Lots of stuff on paper, all over wallsthat never, ever sees the light of day
or gets used beyond that good feeling.
And so it's, it moves agile along, itbrings back the marketing fundamentals,
but then at the end of them.
The process.
You've got something that's live in marketand teams have, you know, a messaging
(09:59):
hierarchy, a really well mapped buyer,our journey, understanding of the customer
pain points and what you need to address.
And also a really nice deck thatwe kind of prepare along with them,
branded up in, in their brand.
That they can then share back into thebusiness, so to stakeholders, whatever.
So it's.
Daniel Rowles (10:21):
So what problems are you kind of, are these sprints fixing
because where do you see these growthmarketing campaigns falling over?
Peter Abraham (10:28):
I think a lot of them are very tactical.
A lot of the stuff that you seethese days is very tactical.
There isn't a lot of strategy,which is why I think it's good
that these move back to strategy.
Even if we're touching it in quitea light way, we're kind of taking it
all on board and then again, you know,condensing that into something that's
really very focused, like super focused.
(10:50):
I think that's the other thingthat's different with it the degree
with agile marketing is that.
Agile marketing tends to be on stuffthat's, you know, very well versed in
terms of the frameworks that peopleuse or the channels that they use.
Whereas, you know, we're startingright at the beginning from day one,
looking at the strategy and thencondensing that right down and focusing
(11:11):
on it and driving it from there.
So that's the main thing.
I think there's far too many tacticsacross far too many channels sometimes
just to go back and say actually.
And the way that we do thingsis that are we missing a trick?
Are we not doing what weshould really be doing?
And we're just getting stuff out the door.
Claire Pankhurst (11:31):
We've all been there, I'm sure, where you get given
a list of like 10 products that youhave to sell and, you know, this is
the laundry list of stuff to do and,you know, almost checkbox go tick.
Yep.
Gotta get something out the door.
Hit our KPIs for this,that, and the other.
And then, sometimes you just missthe mark of actually sitting down and
(11:52):
going, okay, who are we selling to?
Why do they even care about this?
Like, how can we differentiatethis compared to everybody else?
And that other noisethat's out in the market.
So what I really love about this isalmost, it's, it gives you the speed, but
it also gives you the direction of travel.
Because speed withoutdirection is just chaos, right?
(12:13):
It's, you know, we've all been inthose kind of chaotic examples.
And obviously with, if you're justgoing into a direction without that
speed, then you've also got therisk of missing the opportunity.
Daniel Rowles (12:24):
Yeah I mean, I feel this every day at the moment in terms of
the amount of stuff that's happeningwith generative AI and everything else.
And we're just, oh, I've gotta getthis out the door and out the door and
there's these social media channels.
And I love this idea of taking astep back, bringing the right people
in, going back to, to, to basics.
You know, what are we trying to achieve?
Who are we achieving it for?
Claire Pankhurst (12:40):
So, it's a five day workshop, but we
are working with the team.
So we've appointed, you know, asprint leader from the organization.
We've also bought in somebodywho can manage the campaigns.
So they're responsible for the actualexecution of getting this out the door.
And just to clarify, when we'retalking about campaigns, it
isn't a just a single channel.
We're not talking just, you know, anemail campaign or a social media campaign.
(13:03):
These are multi-channel.
Sort of multi execution.
So it needs to have somebody who'sgot that say so and authority
across the business to be ableto make decisions in the room.
And so they've typically beengiven that authority by perhaps
somebody else, A CMO or anotherstakeholder within the business.
So when we are thinking about.
(13:23):
You know, day one we are lookingat how do, what is the actual goal
that we're trying to achieve here?
And typically people sometimesmiss that completely.
And they go straight into, okay,what channel are we gonna use?
What tactics are we going to use?
So if we think what's the goalof this campaign set that then
(13:44):
we get alignment across the team.
To ensure that is the correct goal.
'cause again, that'ssomething that can get missed.
And then in day two, wemove into the planning.
So this is a real marketing team daywhere we actually start to look at,
okay who are the audience, as I said,you know, who is this going out to?
at the messaging frameworkand the hierarchy.
(14:05):
So what's our lead message here?
What's the most important thingthat's gonna resonate the most
with this particular audience?
And then we look at channels, budgetand forecast, and pull that together
into a campaign plan so everybodyknows, you know, what we're trying
to achieve, who we're sending it to,what we're saying, what channels,
and how much it's likely to cost.
(14:26):
And that's where we typically bring inPeter and Crank to be able to support
around, okay, if we are looking at paidmedia here, how bringing in the budget
and the forecast around that also.
Day three, we move intothe copy and design day.
So we are actually working onthe hero copy and the visuals.
(14:48):
And so either they've got an in-house teamor you know, perhaps a designer that could
work with us for that day, to be able topull together the key campaign assets.
And again, we're not looking ata whole deck full of staff here.
We are looking at what do we needfor a minimum viable campaign.
Once we are happy with that, wecan move into day four, which
(15:11):
is a real collaboration day.
And this is like, let's see whatwe've got, what's in progress.
We can share that back to thestakeholders and review and approve.
And what I didn't mention either was thatthis we've already had our stakeholder.
Interviews on day one.
So we've pulled in the key stakeholderswho might be sales, they might be
(15:35):
the CMO, you know, they're, theseare the inputs that we will use to
drive some of the messaging as well,to make sure that's really key.
Katherine Torrence (15:44):
One of the really kind of potent points is when you're
bringing these people on, it could, youknow, there's all this information that's
locked within the business and a lot oftimes marketing doesn't have access to it.
There are all these people,you know, customer success who
are frontline with customers.
All the time.
And they know the language, theyknow the jargon people are using
and that really can infuse marketingwith so much meaning and be so
(16:07):
much more impactful when it lands.
So, so that first day of gettingthe stakeholders we were in a
sprint and on day one, the CMO,sales lead and the director who
was kind of driving the project allhad different visions of the goal.
They have different visions ofwhich product we'd be promoted and.
(16:28):
They were more or less aligned on theaudience, but they had, there was only
a very top line view of who the ICP wasand who the personas within the ICP were.
And then nobody was reallyclear on the buyer journey.
So in day one it was like,okay, then we proved the point.
They're bringing all these peopletogether in a brief but purposeful.
(16:48):
Session is really worthwhile.
We discovered that within thefirst hour of the sprint, luckily.
Claire Pankhurst (16:56):
No, but it could happen, you know, we know I've been
seen it where you've built out thatcampaign and then you're sharing it
back to the business, all excitedand buzzing, and then it's like, ah,
no, actually we needed it for that.
Peter Abraham (17:07):
We're not always bringing these people in, you know, full time.
Like you might work for a WarRoom ifyou were doing something specific.
You know, we have that initial, likeCatherine said, you have that initial.
period where you bring everybodytogether and then you might separate
and then you might pull in otherpeople as you go through the process.
And I think that's really keybecause everybody's time is poor.
(17:28):
You do need stakeholders thatare, you know, driving it.
They need to be full on for a week.
But yeah, beyond that, it'skind of here and there.
You're pulling in thespecialists when you need them.
specialist knowledge.
Daniel Rowles (17:41):
And then when they've kind of got through to the end.
The sprint, what's the, what arethe deliverables they're gonna kinda
walk away with by the end of this?
Katherine Torrence (17:47):
So we've got what we call the minimum viable campaign.
So that's.
The critical path set of assets.
And it could be anywherewithin the funnel.
So what we do kind of upfront is identifywhere's the blockage in the funnel.
So you might have a campaign that'sfull funnel, you know, from awareness
all the way down to decision purchase.
But it could be that you've got a realblocker moving people from awareness
into consideration, for example.
(18:09):
And you might see that inyour marketing funnel in.
In your sales pipeline.
And so we'll look to identifythat blocker and unblock it.
And so that could look likeLinkedIn ads to a landing page that
could look like press releases.
That could look like athought leadership piece.
The kind of critical criteria forthe minimum viable campaign is
(18:29):
something that can be achieved withinthe team that you have access to.
So, you know, in-house designeror a designer that we bring in.
Copywriting, which, you know, whichwe can do, in and amongst ourselves.
And it's important to not kind of biteoff more than a team can chew in terms
of, we might not do a full microsite,but we might do a landing page and
(18:51):
we might use assets that are alreadycreated but top entail them differently.
you get that.
We have a customer journey map.
We've got the messaging hierarchy,a campaign hierarchy with the
channels, a forecast associatedwith that ums media plan and that.
either, it can be one channel, wecan look at a number of channels.
Obviously the more we add on that takesa little bit more time, but it, you know,
(19:14):
if it knocks over into a little bit afterthe sprint, usually that's not an issue.
So, so what's the media strategy?
And then the forecast for that andthe budgeting associated with it.
And then like I was saying, you getthe kind of the full package, so all
of that, so the mirror board, becausewhen we're not face to face, we do
this on a mirror board, so they getthe mirror board and then they get the
(19:35):
individual component parts and theneverything wrapped up into a nice deck
Daniel Rowles (19:39):
Right.
And so from that, how do you make surethat stuff is good, not just fast?
So, 'cause the risk is you kind of,you bring the right people together,
you get the buy-in, you go through theprocess, you go, we're gonna solve this
pain point, we build a campaign quickly.
How do you make sure that's actuallygonna be effective, not just done quickly,
Peter Abraham (19:55):
So definitely using the paid 'cause, paid media is the fastest.
It gives you the fastest
Daniel Rowles (20:00):
right.
Peter Abraham (20:00):
in terms of identifying the right audiences, the right
messages, the right creative,whatever creative you're using.
So, you know, typically wemight start with B2B, LinkedIn.
that will give you the depth.
'cause you can obviously focuson people's interests and skills,
not just their kind of job titleswithin different industry sectors.
Some of that will also give us a senseof how kind of large that audience
(20:24):
is, particularly if you are workingwith a BM, and the ICP type approach.
And then obviously the Google which,the Google side of things, Google Ads,
which gives you the breadth and intent.
So those two things together very quickly,you know, give you some indicators you'll
get an indicator within kind of 24 hours.
there are kind of allsorts of factors in this.
(20:46):
But you might have to wait.
I usually we say wait, kind ofa week before you get a really
decent amount of data and fourweeks, if you wait four weeks, that
gives you a month's worth of data.
Then you can allow forall sorts of other things.
'cause you've gotta allow forseasonality and those kind of things.
But if you take.
If you take that foundation and you pickthat up, then you can start to deploy
(21:07):
that across some of the other channels.
So you are already starting on thatmomentum of you've already identified
the audience, you know, kind of whatthe messages are, know what the success
metrics that you are looking for are.
You have a budget, you know howlong that budget is gonna last.
That's the other thing, you know,we haven't all got deep pockets.
We can't just run forever.
So.
Daniel Rowles (21:27):
And do, does AI come into this at all in terms of how
using AI technology in the sprints.
Peter Abraham (21:32):
Yeah, it does.
We've got a couple of toolsourselves within Crank that we use.
But I think more and more what we,I think what we've learned is as we
run these, there are certain thingsthat we can lean on to bring the
AI kind of agency, and I wouldn'tnecessarily say that AI is a big thing.
It helps give you the speed providingyou know what you're doing, then
(21:56):
it definitely can give you speed.
So, I mean, a really, asimple example, writing copy
headlines can take a long time.
We can do that in 30 seconds.
Daniel Rowles (22:05):
Yeah I think it's interesting because if you take this
kind of agile approach and then you bakeAI into it as well, you're just gonna
enable some of those things that werejust taken too long before as well.
So what are the common challenges thenthat teams are facing when they're kind of
transitioning to this new way of workingand how do you kinda work through that?
Claire Pankhurst (22:22):
It's definitely a mindset shift for a lot of people
because they're so used to doing how,you know, working, how they work.
so I think open-mindedness is akey sort of value that we bring in.
And we identified when we're speakingto people initially, that they've
got that right mindset to be able to,leave their ego at the door almost.
Because we are all in this together.
(22:42):
There's no, we are not sort ofdictating or, commanding that
it has to be done this way.
So there's no rigid.
Process, but it's just a case of wewill hold that structure and space.
And asking the right questionsat the right time to be able to
get, you know, the best outcome.
So I think for the actual teamitself, it's just important to have
(23:05):
that right mindset from the outset.
Peter Abraham (23:08):
Also think from a kind of CMO or head of marketing
perspective, sometimes they mightbe thinking how come we're so slow?
Why is this stuff taking so long?
Why, you know, why can'tI see results faster?
and taking this approach, ifyou kind of just run it once.
It will start to open your eyesto understand actually I could be
(23:28):
more agile in certain approaches.
You're not gonna run everything like this,but it will definitely open your eyes
to different ways of working at speedand then, yeah what have we learned?
What can we take back?
What would we change?
Those kind of thingsI think are important.
Katherine Torrence (23:43):
I think there are two fundamental challenges to add.
One is that this belief that technologyand tools equals great marketing.
And so I can just go straightto tactics and channels and kind
of, you know, take some wordingfrom the website and off I go.
And so I think that mindset thatyou can move fast, but you can also.
(24:05):
Is important.
And I think that there's a belief thatsomehow strategy is time consuming.
And it is.
I mean, it's not to say that you canbe brilliant in 10 seconds or less but
the business has that intelligence.
So if you take the time to hooverit up and infuse it into the
marketing that'll make things better.
And I think that is a big strategicshift as opposed to just like, you
(24:26):
know, run to the channels, run to the.
Peter Abraham (24:30):
I think the other important thing to mention is that it's not
like we're taking control of anything.
we're doing is using a methodology to.
Kind of some results quickly,and then hand it over.
it's a terrible kind of analogy,but it's a bit like getting the SAS
to start a campaign off and then,you get the troops to follow it up.
(24:52):
It's a similar kind of thing.
So either your marketing team willpick it up and continue with it.
yeah, or the agency will
Daniel Rowles (24:59):
and from that point of view then, so how are you
measuring success of the sprint?
Katherine Torrence (25:04):
Sure.
We have three things that we measure.
So the first one and reallyimportantly because Sprint is.
So client feedback, wasthe process effective?
Would they try it on their own?
Did they learn something?
Were they exposed tosomething that they before?
So that's number one.
And then we look at the leadingindicators, like Peter was saying,
(25:26):
from the minimum viable campaign or.
And then we look at didit achieve its goal?
So this part is a little bit harder for usto control because like Peter was saying,
we, you know, we hand it back to the team.
You know, we co-create, we guide,we use our experience to kind
of set people in direction.
But then it's down to them to carryon and do what they're really good at.
(25:48):
It's sort of, it's acatalyst for this success.
And.
Peter Abraham (25:56):
yeah, one stage, I think I said to Catherine it was, it
feels a bit like you've got a mentorand a coach in the same room at the
Daniel Rowles (26:04):
Right.
Peter Abraham (26:04):
so yeah.
Daniel Rowles (26:05):
No, I love that.
I love that approach.
So you've got some big brands mightfollow up with you after this and come
through to you, but if somebody can'tdo a sprint with you, they can't afford
it . What could they take away from thisand how could they apply that today?
Katherine Torrence (26:17):
I think there are kind of two techniques that
they could try on their own.
And this is, you know, it's this aboutkind of carving out the time to do it
Daniel Rowles (26:25):
Right.
Katherine Torrence (26:25):
hard to do and not.
Letting via you get in the way.
But I think mapping the journeyfrom the buyer's point of
view is critically important.
And if you use that as your northstar what experience are they having?
What questions are they asking?
And put yourself in their mindsetand use, I need to do this.
I'm struggling with that.
As opposed to, you know, are buyersare encountering these challenges
(26:47):
during the course of their workday.
Really get into their mind, theirlingo and the way they talk.
Number one.
And then when you are thinkingabout your most valuable use
cases that meet their pain points,again, describe it in their words.
It's not about what youwant to say to them.
It's about what theyneed to hear from you.
Daniel Rowles (27:04):
Right,
Katherine Torrence (27:04):
can do those two things sort of in your everyday
practice when you're creating yourmarketing materials, I think it could.
Peter Abraham (27:13):
We've
Daniel Rowles (27:13):
and
Peter Abraham (27:13):
this, we've also written a short guide, so, which yeah, everybody
can probably download from the site,
Daniel Rowles (27:19):
exactly.
So we'll put the link in the shownotes, so target internet.com/podcast
and you'll be able download that kindof step by step guide and get some
kind of pointers from that as well.
So we've talked about whatpeople can apply from this.
I mean, what do you thinkpeople should not be doing?
What if there was one thingmarketers should stop doing?
What would it be that's kind ofgetting in the way of all of this?
Claire Pankhurst (27:37):
I think the one thing is definitely just to, when you
get taught, when know when someoneapproaches you about this, to not just
jump straight into those tactics andtools and to actually, put yourself in
the prospect's shoes and think about,okay, so I. What is it that they want?
Who do we, who have we sold to?
That's in, similar either productsand looking back perhaps through your
(27:59):
CRM data or your win-loss data, andalso just looping in people that can
give you some really key insightsso that you can use those insights
to build out a quality campaign.
and then think about themessaging, because quite often
that's what Lands Flat is.
You know, it is not how it's beenpumped out or your distribution
(28:20):
or anything like that.
It's that the messaging didn'tresonate, it didn't feel, you didn't
feel it in your chest when youread that, you know, and that per
that company understands who I am.
Peter Abraham (28:30):
I'd also say it's also not what should they stop doing,
but what should they start doing?
So I think it a couple oftimes, but the constraints.
Constraints are really good.
If you ask any
Daniel Rowles (28:40):
Right.
Peter Abraham (28:40):
person, they'll tell you.
If you give everybody loads of roomto maneuver, it makes it really hard.
And I think a lot of the time that'shalf of the problem is that constrain
stuff enough to be able to go,okay, now we know what the customers
experience, we know what the problemis, we know what the message is, we
know, you know, those kind of things.
So yeah that's probably the big thingfor me, that's part of the agility
(29:03):
if is it's small things quicker.
It's not big things faster.
Daniel Rowles (29:09):
I'm not I love this approach of bringing the right
stakeholders in, constraining theperiod of time that you're gonna do it.
Focus on one particular problem.
Go through, truly understand what'sgonna resonate with the target
audience, and then build thatinto a structured process now.
And I like the fact that there's an outputthat then they're gonna take away and
run with because too many design thinkingworkshops and innovation workshops
I've done end up with loads of stuffon paper as exactly as Catherine said.
(29:31):
And you walk away and go, that was fine.
That were brilliant ideas.
And then six months later, oh, wehaven't done anything with that.
So,
Peter Abraham (29:37):
After a week, you get a campaign.
Daniel Rowles (29:38):
yeah.
Peter Abraham (29:39):
live so
Daniel Rowles (29:40):
Yeah.
Peter Abraham (29:41):
You can
Daniel Rowles (29:41):
So it's happening.
Yeah.
Peter Abraham (29:42):
Yeah, you can see the data.
So
Daniel Rowles (29:45):
Alright.
I love it and I think that the overwhelmthat all marketers are feeling at the
moment and, you know, trying to doall things, you end up doing nothing.
So, where can people learn more?
Where should they go to findout a bit more about this stuff?
Katherine Torrence (29:56):
Sure they can go to supercharge marketing sprints.com.
And they're welcome to connect withClaire, with myself, Catherine Torrance.
Peter I'm gonna volunteeryou for connection as well.
So,
Peter Abraham (30:07):
You sure.
Katherine Torrence (30:08):
Hurst, Catherine Torrance and Peter Abraham.
And we'd be happy to, yeah shareknowledge and help how we can.
Daniel Rowles (30:13):
Brilliant stuff.
We'll put all of those linksfor the LinkedIn profiles and
the website and everything elseinto the show notes as well.
And other than that, thank you Claire,Catherine and Peter for joining us today.
For more episodes, resources toleave a review or to get in contact,
go to target internet.com/podcast.
Popular Podcasts
Boysober
Have you ever wondered what life might be like if you stopped worrying about being wanted, and focused on understanding what you actually want? That was the question Hope Woodard asked herself after a string of situationships inspired her to take a break from sex and dating. She went "boysober," a personal concept that sparked a global movement among women looking to prioritize themselves over men. Now, Hope is looking to expand the ways we explore our relationship to relationships. Taking a bold, unfiltered look into modern love, romance, and self-discovery, Boysober will dive into messy stories about dating, sex, love, friendship, and breaking generational patterns—all with humor, vulnerability, and a fresh perspective.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com