September 24, 2025 • 27 mins
In this episode of the Egg Whisperer Show, I have the pleasure of welcoming Dr. Abby Eblen, Dr. Carrie Bedient, and Dr. Susan Hudson: board-certified reproductive endocrinologists, co-hosts of the "Fertility Docs Uncensored" podcast, and authors of the new book, "The IVF Blueprint." As clinicians and, in some cases, IVF patients themselves, they bring a wealth of experience and empathy to our conversation about the emotional and practical aspects of fertility treatment.
Together, we dive into the motivations behind writing "The IVF Blueprint," the importance of patient education, and the ever-evolving landscape of IVF care. We discuss our shared mission to demystify the IVF process, provide evidence-based guidance, and empower patients to advocate for themselves. We also explore the emotional journey of infertility, the significance of transparency in the lab, and what the future holds for fertility care.
In this episode, we cover:
- The inspiration and collaborative process behind "The IVF Blueprint"
- Common sources of overwhelm for IVF patients and strategies to manage them
- The importance of patient education and anticipatory guidance throughout the IVF journey
- Evidence-based recommendations for supplements and lifestyle during fertility treatment
- What really happens in the IVF lab and why transparency matters
- Trends in IVF access, family planning, and genetic testing
- How patients can advocate for themselves and find support during fertility care
Resources:
- Fertility Docs Uncensored Podcast & Book
- Dr. Carrie Bedient at Fertility Center of Las Vegas
- Dr. Susan Hudson at Texas Fertility Center
- Dr. Abby Eblen at Nashville Fertility
Do you have questions about IVF?
Click here to join Dr. Aimee for The IVF Class.
Click here to join Dr. Aimee for The IVF Class.
The next live class call is on Monday, October 20, 2025 at 4pm PST, where Dr. Aimee will explain IVF and there will be time to ask her your questions live on Zoom.
Dr. Aimee Eyvazzadeh is one of America’s most well known fertility doctors. Her success rate at baby-making is what gives future parents hope when all hope is lost. She pioneered the TUSHY Method and
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:15):
Hi everyone and welcome backto the Egg Whispers Show.
I'm Dr. Amy, and today I have thepleasure of talking with Dr. Abby Elin,
Dr. Carrie Bet and Dr. Susan Hudson.
Hi everyone and welcome backto the Egg Whispers Show.
I'm Dr. Amy, and today I have thepleasure of talking with Dr. Abby Elin,
Dr. Carrie Bet and Dr. Susan Hudson.
Together they are the FertilityDocs Board certified Reproductive
(00:37):
endocrinologists podcast hosts offertility docs uncensored, and authors
of their new book, the IVF Blueprint.
Two of the fertility docs are IVFmoms themselves and all three run
thriving clinics across the country.
They bring clarity.
Warmth and evidence-based guidanceto one of the most emotional
(00:58):
journeys many families face.
I'm so excited to learn more aboutyour book, so let's jump right in.
You have a popular podcastand work together often.
How did the book come about and howdid you draw from your experiences as
doctors and patients in creating it?
We had decided, really when we startedthe podcast, we made some goals about
things that we really wanted to do.
(01:18):
And so that was kind of oneof the things on the list.
And I don't know, the time was justright and we started working on it.
The reason we did it was because we getso many questions on our podcast about
IVF, patients only have about 30 minutesduring their consult with their doctor.
And while we go through a lot of thatand I'm sure you do too, a lot of times
patients don't do IVF for several monthsand they really don't have a way to remind
(01:41):
themselves about what we talked about.
So.
The idea behind the book was to reallymake it a handbook so that when somebody
goes through IVF, they'll be able toreference what they're doing at each
step and be able to get more information.
That's great.
And early in the book you talkabout how overwhelming IVF can feel.
From your perspective, what'sthe root of that overwhelm and
(02:02):
how can both patients and doctorsmake the process more manageable?
I think really there is.
Power and knowledge, and most of the timewhen people are overwhelmed, it's because
they're scared and it's because theyjust don't understand what's going on.
I remember when I was going throughmy own IVF journey and the times I
cried, which I cried just like everybodyelse does during their IVF journey.
(02:25):
It, it is when things didn't match upand it was like, why are we doing this?
Why did something change?
Things weren't going according to.
and my brain had as the plan, andit's the same slide that everybody
else goes down, and so we wanted tohelp give a good, solid reference of
(02:46):
why your Dr. May do different things.
There's no one way to do IVF.
There's no one couple.
That's exactly like another couple.
And what we really intended withthis book was to show a variety of
ways and reasonings behind what wefind is important, and to be able to
(03:08):
use that in your personal journey.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so much of what we do as doctorsis helping patients understand
what to expect at each stage.
How do you approach that?
Giving patients One quote from DrCarrie Bedient that really stood out
to me in this conversation So muchof what patient anxiety focuses on is
the uncertainty of what will or won'thappen.”enough information to feel
prepared without creating extra stress.
So much of what patient anxiety focuses onis the uncertainty of what will or won't
(03:31):
happen, and so there's two parts to this.
So one part is giving them the informationthey need for right now because, well,
yes, at the very first visit we could tellthem everything about the IVF retrieval
cycle and the uterine preparation andthe transfer cycle and all the lab work.
It doesn't make sense to do that.
At that point, and so it's figuringout how do we get a bite-sized
(03:54):
piece of information that's veryrelevant to what the patient is going
through right now and presenting it.
The other part of it is the anticipatoryguidance because we all know some of
the pain points that patients have.
You know that when you get 20 eggsout and you are only gonna get,
you know, 1, 2, 3, however many.
Embryos at the end of it, thatpatient is going to freak out about
(04:15):
that if they're not prepared for it.
And so as a result, you tell somebodyyou know at the time of their retrieval,
before, during, after, okay, you have20 eggs, you will not have 20 embryos.
This is normal.
This is expected, this is what we want.
You want to see that natural selection inprocess 'cause you don't wanna transfer
all the ones that are never gonna make it.
(04:35):
And so a lot of it is thatreal anticipatory guidance.
How do we help people?
Deal with some of the uncertaintyin the big ways that we'll send
them into one of those Tailspins.
Because as human beings, we always.
Want a hundred percent.
That's what's ingrained inus from such an early age.
Like a plus isn't gettingone embryo out of 20.
One out of 20 feels like failure.
(04:56):
But if you reframe it, itmakes the patients feel less
afraid and scared and worried.
But no matter what we say though,sometimes they still, feel overwhelmed.
It's good that we'rehandholding our patients.
So you dedicate space to lifestyleand supplements, and I'm sure you
get so many questions about that.
It's like one of the first questionsI get asked after a transfer
is like, what should I eat?
(05:17):
What should I do?
And in your experience, whatadvice has been the most helpful
and what should patients lookfor when choosing supplements?
I think we would all agree thatprenatal vitamins are important, so.
Prenatal vitamins.
I personally ask them to take extrafolic acid 'cause it's one of those
things, you can't get too much of it.
You can only get too little.
And then also vitamin DI think over theyears in checking vitamin D levels, most
(05:41):
of us know that most of our patientshave really low vitamin D levels.
So that's one of the ones Ireally think they need to take.
And then, you know, it depends on wherethey're at and sometimes age related.
So coq 10 is another good supplement.
And so I think it reallykind of depends on.
The patient in terms of what to look for.
There's different ways that you canlook at supplements and you wanna
(06:02):
make sure that they really havewhat they say they have in 'em.
And so there's somedifferent certifications.
USP is one, and I know Nature madevitamins have that certification, that
an outside source has really looked atthose vitamins to make sure that they
really have the right components in it.
And so I think the quality of yourvitamins is also important as well.
In addition to USP, the other designationis NSF, and those are really designations
(06:27):
to show that a third party has.
Proven that what you expect to bein your vitamins is truly what's in
there and at the appropriate dosages.
A lot of people don't realizethat vitamins and supplements
aren't regulated by the FDA orthe Food and Drug Administration.
So you have to take thesefolks at the, their word.
(06:47):
And unfortunately there's some prettygood data to say that a lot of these
companies are lying to consumers.
I would rather you takesomething than nothing.
Sometimes you aregetting what you pay for.
So sometimes paying a little bitmore for those vitamins that have
those designations are going to helpyou get all the vitamins, nutrients,
(07:08):
antioxidants that we're searching forto improve your chances of success.
And sometimes too with gummyvitamins, you know, even though, you
know, I think they're much easierto take and they taste better.
Sometimes they don't havea lot of vitamin there.
It's more, more the gelatin component.
So I really recommend thatpatients actually take pills
rather than gummies if they can.
(07:30):
Found when we were writing the supplementchapter of the book that number one, we
had to divide it three ways, and numbertwo, it was like writing a term paper.
I mean.
You figure all doctors are professionalstudents and holy cow, I was back in some
of my senior level writing classes tryingto figure out, now how do I cite this?
And how do I make sure that I havethe correct number of sources and that
(07:52):
everything is pulled together in asuccinct, easily understandable way.
And I think all three of us wentthrough that process, particularly
with that chapter, because itrequired so much data diving.
The other supplement I would add that Ifind helpful, and I imagine you do too, is
something that boosts NAD levels in cells.
Something like ova, NADor something similar.
(08:15):
I've been recommendingthat for a while now.
And then what is your like lifestylerecommendation around like activity
when you're doing an egg retrieval?
I get that question a lot inactivity after an embryo transfer.
I think a good guidelineis life and moderation.
Okay?
We don't let you going off thedeep end one way or the other.
(08:36):
When you're very close to your eggretrieval, we're gonna wanna start
reducing that exercise and, andthose types of things, but through
most of your fertility journey.
A good balanced diet.
Something like a Mediterraneanstyle diet is a good place to
start doing moderate exercise.
Getting your body moving, goingthrough pregnancy is one of the
(08:57):
hardest things your body is goingto go through in your lifetime.
And so we really want you to be inas good a shape as you possibly can,
but we also don't want you a very.
Aggressive way of losing weight if we'reactively trying to get you pregnant.
Now, if we're preparing for somethingand you're losing the pounds, that's
(09:19):
great, but that's not the best thingnecessarily during an egg retrieval.
Yeah, so be gentle with yourself.
That's not the time to, to worryabout your weight, so I love that.
The book also takes patients behind thescenes into the lab, from egg retrieval
to embryo development, to genetic testing.
Why is transparency so important aboutthe lab and what do patients need to know
(09:42):
about the scientific and lab side of IVF?
It's so important to havetransparency in, in and throughout.
The IVF cycle, especially in thelab component because the patients
are never going to directly see thatwe are walking in and outta the lab
all day in our booties and in ourhairs and with our lab coats on and
through the swipe uh, key card doors.
(10:04):
And so we know everything that goeson there, but they don't, and it's
very nerve wracking because theydon't know what we're doing with
their eggs and sperm and embryos.
And they don't necessarily realizethat there's computer matching going
on to make sure the names are the same.
There's always a second, if not thirdperson who's cross-checking their names.
So it's not just, oh, you check in atthe front, it's you get your bracelet and
(10:28):
then it's checked in the pre-op area, inthe OR by the embryology lab, there's a
dual set of checks that happen in the lab.
Then when they come into the room, andthen when they go back into the lab.
Every time they take out yourembryos from their incubator, there's
cross-checking that's happening.
And so knowing a lot of that is reallyimportant, knowing that there's a ton of
quality control that occurs in the lab.
(10:50):
They are constantly looking at the pH, thetemperature, the air quality parameters.
The oxygen levels, CO2 levels,nitrogen levels, that's all
being monitored constantly.
And we always joke that fertilitydocs are compulsive, embryologists
are way more compulsive.
Thank goodness.
Thank goodness and so when you combinethe compulsiveness of most people who
(11:13):
work in a fertility clinic, it endsup being a very safe environment.
But like we talked about before, therewill always be decreases in numbers.
Along the way, there is a funnel effect.
The number of eggs you get is not goingto be the number of embryos you get.
That's good.
You don't want it to be that waybecause even in a really healthy
30 5-year-old, 40% of the eggscoming out are gonna be abnormal.
(11:36):
That's expected.
And so you don't wannaput those embryos back.
And so being able to understand, yes,these numbers are gonna go down, no,
not every embryo is going to makea baby is very helpful so that they
understand the realities of the worldthat we work in and what science and
biology can do and what they can't do.
(11:56):
Yeah, you explained that so well.
I think it's also really importantthat they know about the procedure
itself because I think the averageperson, when they come in and you start
talking about an egg retrieval, theydon't have a concept for how we do it.
It just doesn't make sense to, andparticularly based on the models most
of us have in our office of the uterus.
It just doesn't make sense.
We try to discuss that in thebook and explain that in detail.
(12:19):
We also try to explain, you know,who's gonna be back there with you?
Who are you gonna meet?
Kind of walk them through the wholeprocess because I think, you know,
if you don't know what's gonnahappen, that's when you have a whole
bunch or a whole lot more anxiety.
And so I think by letting them knowthe type of people that are gonna
meet and what each person's role is,also helps to reduce their stress
and anxiety about the procedure.
(12:40):
I tell patients you might feel likecar at a pit stop, at a NASCAR race.
It's like everyone's like puttingon the monitor, getting your
blood pressure, putting your legsup, telling you to scoot down.
correct.
Yeah.
And then the older I getthe funnier I think I am.
So I tell the patientat the end, clap twice.
Touch your nose.
You know, because it feels like we'replaying almost like we're playing.
Simon says, in the in, in the OR at times.
(13:04):
So IVF has changed a lot and, um,more people are turning to it for
different family building reasons.
What kind of trends or changes are youseeing in how patients approach IVF today?
I think one of the most exciting things iswith people getting more and more access
to IVF through their insurance, throughtheir employers and things like that.
(13:29):
Is that when they come in to talk tome about having a baby, I can talk
to them about their family goals.
I don't have to justfocus on the here and now.
I can plan their treatment based onwhat their true hopes and dreams are.
And so I think that's one of themost exciting things is that, you
(13:51):
know, you come in to see me andyou're 34 years old and you tell
me you wanna have three children.
That's a very different conversationthan if your 34-year-old.
You say, I, it's one and done.
And so it's very, it makes me feel goodthat I'm able to really look at the
future and not just solve the immediateproblem, but lay the groundwork.
(14:15):
So we're going to havesuccess in the future.
and we're hope and dream dealers.
And you know, we're allvery empathetic people.
Talking to one another today.
What would you say to someonewho's not getting that?
I think everyone should get thatconversation with their doctor, but you
and I both know that that's not happening.
So how can a patient who let'ssay, doesn't have a choice with
where she can go, 'cause she'slimited by where she lives.
(14:35):
How would you recommend that she advocatefor herself if she's not getting that
kind of conversation with her doctor?
I mean, I think she should probably, youknow, make a. A list of questions and you
know, sometimes I think when people getin front of their doctor, they kind of
freeze up and they don't know what to ask.
And so I think it's reallyhelpful to come up with questions.
I think it's important to talk to friendswho have been through, to get some
(14:56):
sense for what their experience was, andthat way they can compare and contrast.
Because sometimes I think patients seethings that we do and they, feel like that
that's not what other physicians would do.
And then when, when they kind of see,almost like the egg conversation where
not every egg is gonna make an embryo.
When they see that sort of, this isthe way kind of it flow, the flow is
in the clinic, I think they betterunderstand like, yeah, I'm coming in
(15:18):
and I'm gonna maybe not see the doctor.
I'm gonna have my ultrasound,I'm gonna have my blood draw,
and then I'm gonna leave.
And so I, I think just talking to otherpeople, they can get a sense for what
they should expect, but if they'renot getting that, I think it's really
important for them to bring it up withtheir doctor or with their nurse so that
they do get the experience they hope for.
I think it's also important to knowthat although your physician, nurses,
(15:41):
medical assistants, administrative staffare all part of your family building
team, that it's important that if youneed to go outside of that realm to
get the support you need, that's okay.
Alright.
If you need to seek a mental healthprofessional or you need to join a support
group, or you need to just start writingin a diary to get some of those emotions
(16:05):
out of you and into a, in a safe place.
Those are all very, very goodthings to do and not every.
Physician and patient are goingto be a perfect personality match.
And so if you live in a place wherethere's lots of doctors to choose
from, then sometimes you can pickyour physician based on that.
But that's, as you mentioned, that's notalways a possibility because of geography.
(16:30):
Most fertility doctors arein major metropolitan areas.
Quite frankly, most people in the UnitedStates actually don't live in those areas.
They have to travel to getto the care that they need.
And so going through some of thesea other avenues can kind of a bridge
for maybe what may be missing.
(16:50):
Yeah, true story.
I had a patient once who toldme to stop being so happy.
And stop being so positive with her.
And I said, I, I just can't, Ican't change how much I believe
that, this is going to work for you.
I just can't change that.
And, um, she was angry and, um,you know, she transformed once she,
(17:12):
you know, obviously reached hergoals, but that was a very funny,
we still laugh about it together.
I still tease her about it, abouthow she said literally like, it
was a dead serious conversation.
It wasn't like, can youstop being so happy?
Was like, we need to talk.
You're just too happy of a person for me.
So I, I hear what you, I hear whatI understand what you're saying.
When sometimes it could be a mismatchbetween the doctor and the patient.
(17:34):
The other thing to keep in mind is whenyou're going through infertility, you
are going through a grieving process.
No one grows up thinking, Hey, I wannado IVF, that's how I wanna have my baby.
And so you really are goingthrough a grieving process and
sometimes as you're doing that, we.
You end up having some anger that goestowards those who are trying to help you.
(17:58):
And we understand that, but it, butI think it's also very insightful
to recognize, hey, I am goingthrough this grieving process.
I have a medical condition called Celiac,where essentially I'm one of those
people who really can't eat gluten.
And I remember when I first gotdiagnosed, it was very isolating.
I came home from work one day and I was.
(18:20):
Angry.
Angry.
And my husband turns at me andhe's like, why are you angry at me?
And I'm like, I'm not angry at you.
I'm angry at everything.
And that was, it was one of themost wonderful like moments of
my life because I didn't evenrealize it until that moment.
So where do you see the futureof IVF and fertility care headed?
(18:43):
If you were to make some predictions?
I think that it's going to expandto people who otherwise would
never consider having families,would never be able to have.
Families.
So for example, we've already seenan explosion of care being able to
be given to LGBTQIA plus patients.
So whether they have a partner of thesame sex, of a different sex, someone
(19:06):
who's transitioned, whatever it maybe, we're expanding more and more.
Our ability to get good care tothose patients, to get them what they
need and to do it in an inclusiveenvironment where they're not.
They don't feel likethey're the odd person out.
I think the other area that's going tocontinue to transform is the genetic
testing that's being done and wherewe started with just PGTA being able
(19:31):
to see, do you have 46 chromosomes?
No more, no less, and maleand female, and then PGTM.
With single gene mutations like TACcystic fibrosis, sickle cell anemia,
now it's expanding further out.
So you've got the structural mutationsfor people who carry translocations.
You've got PGTP for people who carry thesepolygenic traits that are not a real easy.
(19:54):
Identify one gene, thereforeyou have a problem.
Therefore, we avoid that embryo.
We look more at the folks who havemaybe a handful of embryos for those
who are fortunate enough for thatand say, okay, you have a really
nasty family history of diabetes.
These embryos are more prone to that.
So maybe we don't transfer those first.
Maybe we transfer these other onesfirst and help to shape some of those
(20:18):
discussions going forwards so thatsome of the big known problems we can
avoid from the beginning rather thanhaving to scramble into treatment,
which depends a lot on what's yourinsurance and what's your access and
what's your health literacy level.
And so I think that's really goingto wrap, continue to rapidly evolve.
It's already rapidly evolving,but I think it's going to.
(20:41):
Continue to just be a rollercoasterthat goes a hundred miles an hour
at improving those capabilities.
I'm glad you brought up PGTP 'causeI think a lot of patients aren't
offered it and I feel like you can'tgive informed consent about genetic
screening of your embryos unlessyou know what all your options are.
And so many patients are justtold about just standard PGTA.
(21:01):
I'm one of the only doctors inNorthern California that offer.
Is PGTP.
The fact that you broughtit up, I think is huge.
I think including in yourbook is really helpful.
So patients can then advocate for itand if they aren't able to get it,
the clinic that they're going to,then they can find another option.
Because once your embryos are biopsied,you know, I get patients who come to me
and say, I wanna do PG TP on my previouslybiopsied embryos, and I don't want to do
(21:24):
double biopsies just for PGTP ideally.
But thank you for bringing thatup and bringing awareness to that.
When you think about the book reachingboth patients and doctors, what is the key
message you hope each group takes away?
Well, for doctors, we really wantthem to know that we wanna put
this information out to help them.
(21:44):
Um, we don't want them to feelthat we're trying to supersede
what they're telling the patient.
We make a couple of points in thebook to say, you know, there's
more than one way to do this.
If your doctor does somethingdifferent than what we
mentioned, just ask your doctor.
I'm sure they have a good reason for that.
So we really want it to be helpfulfor physicians, actually for family
members as well, instead of a patienthaving to go to the family member.
(22:06):
And explain all the details of IVF.
They can just say, Hey, look atthis chapter and read about this.
And for patients the same.
We just want patients to be able, atany stage in their journey, whether
they're starting out and they'rethinking about doing IVF, whether
they're right in the middle of it.
Or after they've already finished andthey're still thinking about their FET,
their frozen embryo transfer, we wantthem to be able to jump around in the book
(22:27):
without having to read the whole book.
So it really is something that willbe a reference for them when they
come in for each of their visits or,afterwards, after IVF is even over with.
We very intentionally thought of both.
patients when we wrote this book tomake sure that it was really going to
be more of a help than a hindrance.
(22:48):
None of us wanted to go to our nationalmeeting and somebody throw our book at us.
And we also recognize thatthere's a lot of noise out there.
And just because it's loud does notmean that the information's accurate.
And we wanted to give good,strong, reliable information
to those who are seeking it.
.Can you please tell us where people can find you if they
(23:08):
would like to work with you?
So I'm Dr. Carrie Ian, and I'm the one in.
Fabulous.
Las Vegas, the fertilitycenter of Las Vegas.
Our website, we do a lot ofremote telemedicine consults.
We see patients from all over the world.
And so if anyone wants to findmy little component of that
world, that's where you find me.
(23:29):
I'm in Nashville, Tennessee.
I'm not on Broadway.
That's the place when people cometo Nashville where they mostly wanna
go, but I'm not very far from there.
We are always accepting new patientsand certainly you can go into our
website and we would love to see you.
I am at Texas Fertility Center.
I actually have two locations.
One is in New Braunfels, Texas, whichis right in between San Antonio and
(23:52):
Austin, and my other location is in Corp.Christi, Texas, which is on the Texas
coast, and I also do a lot of telemedicineand see patients from all over.
Love it.
And where can listeners find your book?
Oh, Carrie, were you gonna add something?
I was gonna add for the podcast,the fertility docs uncensored.
You can go to fertility docsuncensored.com, and that's our website.
(24:15):
And so that'll give you informationon locating the podcast, which
you can find at all the normal.
Podcast locales.
So, uh, apple Podcasts Spotify,all of those usual places.
, That website will also give you linksdirectly to the book, which you can either
go through to find there, or you can lookat Amazon, Barnes and noble bookshop.org.
(24:37):
Any of the places that you wouldnormally go to buy books, we're
on the Target website as well.
We're all over the place, so reallyif you just type in the IVF Blueprint
book, you should be able to find.
Find it one way or the other
Awesome.
is available in hardback,audiobook, and ebook.
Excellent.
Is there anything else youwould like to add today?
(24:58):
more than anything.
We hope patients take hope out of this,that they can understand this, that this
journey is possible, that they will makeit through to the end, and that there's.
A huge team of people on their siderooting for them, not just their own
family and their own clinic, but reallythe IVF world in general is very, is
(25:20):
full of very good cheerleaders and.
We all have that experience of beingout in the world and somebody figures
out what we do and they say, oh yeah,I, you know, I am in the midst of
my IVF cycle, or I had two babiesfrom retrievals or what have you.
And it's pretty much always a cheerleadingtype of response of, I'm so happy for you.
I'm so glad that that happened.
(25:41):
You know, I'm sorry you're going througha struggle right now, there's hope
and there's support for everybody,and we hope more than anything people
take that away from our book and thetechnical information that we're trying
to provide in a bite-sized fashion.
Yeah, I always wanted to be a cheerleader.
It's a true story every year in highschool, I tried out, I never made the
cheer team and I, I'm making up for that.
The only thing you know, I don't wearis a tiny little skirt, but I feel like
(26:03):
I'm waving pom-poms every single day.
,thank you so much, Dr. Abby Evelyn, Dr. Kerry obedient, and Dr. Susan
Hudson for sharing your insights today.
And I can't wait for our listenersto read the IVF blueprint.
It truly is such an incredible resource.
For anyone navigating IVF or yourfriends or family members, they
should get a copy too so that theyknow what you're going through.
(26:26):
If you enjoyed this episode, make sureto subscribe to the Egg Whisper Show
on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcast.
You never miss a conversation like this.
Thank you all for joining.
Keep sparkling, keep asking questionsand learning, because remember, the
more you know, the better it will go.
Hi everyone and welcome backto the Egg Whispers Show.
I'm Dr. Amy, and today I have thepleasure of talking with Dr. Abby Elin,
Dr. Carrie Bet and Dr. Susan Hudson.
Hi everyone and welcome backto the Egg Whispers Show.
I'm Dr. Amy, and today I have thepleasure of talking with Dr. Abby Elin,
Dr. Carrie Bet and Dr. Susan Hudson.
Together they are the FertilityDocs Board certified Reproductive
(00:37):
endocrinologists podcast hosts offertility docs uncensored, and authors
of their new book, the IVF Blueprint.
Two of the fertility docs are IVFmoms themselves and all three run
thriving clinics across the country.
They bring clarity.
Warmth and evidence-based guidanceto one of the most emotional
(00:58):
journeys many families face.
I'm so excited to learn more aboutyour book, so let's jump right in.
You have a popular podcastand work together often.
How did the book come about and howdid you draw from your experiences as
doctors and patients in creating it?
We had decided, really when we startedthe podcast, we made some goals about
things that we really wanted to do.
(01:18):
And so that was kind of oneof the things on the list.
And I don't know, the time was justright and we started working on it.
The reason we did it was because we getso many questions on our podcast about
IVF, patients only have about 30 minutesduring their consult with their doctor.
And while we go through a lot of thatand I'm sure you do too, a lot of times
patients don't do IVF for several monthsand they really don't have a way to remind
(01:41):
themselves about what we talked about.
So.
The idea behind the book was to reallymake it a handbook so that when somebody
goes through IVF, they'll be able toreference what they're doing at each
step and be able to get more information.
That's great.
And early in the book you talkabout how overwhelming IVF can feel.
From your perspective, what'sthe root of that overwhelm and
(02:02):
how can both patients and doctorsmake the process more manageable?
I think really there is.
Power and knowledge, and most of the timewhen people are overwhelmed, it's because
they're scared and it's because theyjust don't understand what's going on.
I remember when I was going throughmy own IVF journey and the times I
cried, which I cried just like everybodyelse does during their IVF journey.
(02:25):
It, it is when things didn't match upand it was like, why are we doing this?
Why did something change?
Things weren't going according to.
and my brain had as the plan, andit's the same slide that everybody
else goes down, and so we wanted tohelp give a good, solid reference of
(02:46):
why your Dr. May do different things.
There's no one way to do IVF.
There's no one couple.
That's exactly like another couple.
And what we really intended withthis book was to show a variety of
ways and reasonings behind what wefind is important, and to be able to
(03:08):
use that in your personal journey.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so much of what we do as doctorsis helping patients understand
what to expect at each stage.
How do you approach that?
Giving patients One quote from DrCarrie Bedient that really stood out
to me in this conversation So muchof what patient anxiety focuses on is
the uncertainty of what will or won'thappen.”enough information to feel
prepared without creating extra stress.
So much of what patient anxiety focuses onis the uncertainty of what will or won't
(03:31):
happen, and so there's two parts to this.
So one part is giving them the informationthey need for right now because, well,
yes, at the very first visit we could tellthem everything about the IVF retrieval
cycle and the uterine preparation andthe transfer cycle and all the lab work.
It doesn't make sense to do that.
At that point, and so it's figuringout how do we get a bite-sized
(03:54):
piece of information that's veryrelevant to what the patient is going
through right now and presenting it.
The other part of it is the anticipatoryguidance because we all know some of
the pain points that patients have.
You know that when you get 20 eggsout and you are only gonna get,
you know, 1, 2, 3, however many.
Embryos at the end of it, thatpatient is going to freak out about
(04:15):
that if they're not prepared for it.
And so as a result, you tell somebodyyou know at the time of their retrieval,
before, during, after, okay, you have20 eggs, you will not have 20 embryos.
This is normal.
This is expected, this is what we want.
You want to see that natural selection inprocess 'cause you don't wanna transfer
all the ones that are never gonna make it.
(04:35):
And so a lot of it is thatreal anticipatory guidance.
How do we help people?
Deal with some of the uncertaintyin the big ways that we'll send
them into one of those Tailspins.
Because as human beings, we always.
Want a hundred percent.
That's what's ingrained inus from such an early age.
Like a plus isn't gettingone embryo out of 20.
One out of 20 feels like failure.
(04:56):
But if you reframe it, itmakes the patients feel less
afraid and scared and worried.
But no matter what we say though,sometimes they still, feel overwhelmed.
It's good that we'rehandholding our patients.
So you dedicate space to lifestyleand supplements, and I'm sure you
get so many questions about that.
It's like one of the first questionsI get asked after a transfer
is like, what should I eat?
(05:17):
What should I do?
And in your experience, whatadvice has been the most helpful
and what should patients lookfor when choosing supplements?
I think we would all agree thatprenatal vitamins are important, so.
Prenatal vitamins.
I personally ask them to take extrafolic acid 'cause it's one of those
things, you can't get too much of it.
You can only get too little.
And then also vitamin DI think over theyears in checking vitamin D levels, most
(05:41):
of us know that most of our patientshave really low vitamin D levels.
So that's one of the ones Ireally think they need to take.
And then, you know, it depends on wherethey're at and sometimes age related.
So coq 10 is another good supplement.
And so I think it reallykind of depends on.
The patient in terms of what to look for.
There's different ways that you canlook at supplements and you wanna
(06:02):
make sure that they really havewhat they say they have in 'em.
And so there's somedifferent certifications.
USP is one, and I know Nature madevitamins have that certification, that
an outside source has really looked atthose vitamins to make sure that they
really have the right components in it.
And so I think the quality of yourvitamins is also important as well.
In addition to USP, the other designationis NSF, and those are really designations
(06:27):
to show that a third party has.
Proven that what you expect to bein your vitamins is truly what's in
there and at the appropriate dosages.
A lot of people don't realizethat vitamins and supplements
aren't regulated by the FDA orthe Food and Drug Administration.
So you have to take thesefolks at the, their word.
(06:47):
And unfortunately there's some prettygood data to say that a lot of these
companies are lying to consumers.
I would rather you takesomething than nothing.
Sometimes you aregetting what you pay for.
So sometimes paying a little bitmore for those vitamins that have
those designations are going to helpyou get all the vitamins, nutrients,
(07:08):
antioxidants that we're searching forto improve your chances of success.
And sometimes too with gummyvitamins, you know, even though, you
know, I think they're much easierto take and they taste better.
Sometimes they don't havea lot of vitamin there.
It's more, more the gelatin component.
So I really recommend thatpatients actually take pills
rather than gummies if they can.
(07:30):
Found when we were writing the supplementchapter of the book that number one, we
had to divide it three ways, and numbertwo, it was like writing a term paper.
I mean.
You figure all doctors are professionalstudents and holy cow, I was back in some
of my senior level writing classes tryingto figure out, now how do I cite this?
And how do I make sure that I havethe correct number of sources and that
(07:52):
everything is pulled together in asuccinct, easily understandable way.
And I think all three of us wentthrough that process, particularly
with that chapter, because itrequired so much data diving.
The other supplement I would add that Ifind helpful, and I imagine you do too, is
something that boosts NAD levels in cells.
Something like ova, NADor something similar.
(08:15):
I've been recommendingthat for a while now.
And then what is your like lifestylerecommendation around like activity
when you're doing an egg retrieval?
I get that question a lot inactivity after an embryo transfer.
I think a good guidelineis life and moderation.
Okay?
We don't let you going off thedeep end one way or the other.
(08:36):
When you're very close to your eggretrieval, we're gonna wanna start
reducing that exercise and, andthose types of things, but through
most of your fertility journey.
A good balanced diet.
Something like a Mediterraneanstyle diet is a good place to
start doing moderate exercise.
Getting your body moving, goingthrough pregnancy is one of the
(08:57):
hardest things your body is goingto go through in your lifetime.
And so we really want you to be inas good a shape as you possibly can,
but we also don't want you a very.
Aggressive way of losing weight if we'reactively trying to get you pregnant.
Now, if we're preparing for somethingand you're losing the pounds, that's
(09:19):
great, but that's not the best thingnecessarily during an egg retrieval.
Yeah, so be gentle with yourself.
That's not the time to, to worryabout your weight, so I love that.
The book also takes patients behind thescenes into the lab, from egg retrieval
to embryo development, to genetic testing.
Why is transparency so important aboutthe lab and what do patients need to know
(09:42):
about the scientific and lab side of IVF?
It's so important to havetransparency in, in and throughout.
The IVF cycle, especially in thelab component because the patients
are never going to directly see thatwe are walking in and outta the lab
all day in our booties and in ourhairs and with our lab coats on and
through the swipe uh, key card doors.
(10:04):
And so we know everything that goeson there, but they don't, and it's
very nerve wracking because theydon't know what we're doing with
their eggs and sperm and embryos.
And they don't necessarily realizethat there's computer matching going
on to make sure the names are the same.
There's always a second, if not thirdperson who's cross-checking their names.
So it's not just, oh, you check in atthe front, it's you get your bracelet and
(10:28):
then it's checked in the pre-op area, inthe OR by the embryology lab, there's a
dual set of checks that happen in the lab.
Then when they come into the room, andthen when they go back into the lab.
Every time they take out yourembryos from their incubator, there's
cross-checking that's happening.
And so knowing a lot of that is reallyimportant, knowing that there's a ton of
quality control that occurs in the lab.
(10:50):
They are constantly looking at the pH, thetemperature, the air quality parameters.
The oxygen levels, CO2 levels,nitrogen levels, that's all
being monitored constantly.
And we always joke that fertilitydocs are compulsive, embryologists
are way more compulsive.
Thank goodness.
Thank goodness and so when you combinethe compulsiveness of most people who
(11:13):
work in a fertility clinic, it endsup being a very safe environment.
But like we talked about before, therewill always be decreases in numbers.
Along the way, there is a funnel effect.
The number of eggs you get is not goingto be the number of embryos you get.
That's good.
You don't want it to be that waybecause even in a really healthy
30 5-year-old, 40% of the eggscoming out are gonna be abnormal.
(11:36):
That's expected.
And so you don't wannaput those embryos back.
And so being able to understand, yes,these numbers are gonna go down, no,
not every embryo is going to makea baby is very helpful so that they
understand the realities of the worldthat we work in and what science and
biology can do and what they can't do.
(11:56):
Yeah, you explained that so well.
I think it's also really importantthat they know about the procedure
itself because I think the averageperson, when they come in and you start
talking about an egg retrieval, theydon't have a concept for how we do it.
It just doesn't make sense to, andparticularly based on the models most
of us have in our office of the uterus.
It just doesn't make sense.
We try to discuss that in thebook and explain that in detail.
(12:19):
We also try to explain, you know,who's gonna be back there with you?
Who are you gonna meet?
Kind of walk them through the wholeprocess because I think, you know,
if you don't know what's gonnahappen, that's when you have a whole
bunch or a whole lot more anxiety.
And so I think by letting them knowthe type of people that are gonna
meet and what each person's role is,also helps to reduce their stress
and anxiety about the procedure.
(12:40):
I tell patients you might feel likecar at a pit stop, at a NASCAR race.
It's like everyone's like puttingon the monitor, getting your
blood pressure, putting your legsup, telling you to scoot down.
correct.
Yeah.
And then the older I getthe funnier I think I am.
So I tell the patientat the end, clap twice.
Touch your nose.
You know, because it feels like we'replaying almost like we're playing.
Simon says, in the in, in the OR at times.
(13:04):
So IVF has changed a lot and, um,more people are turning to it for
different family building reasons.
What kind of trends or changes are youseeing in how patients approach IVF today?
I think one of the most exciting things iswith people getting more and more access
to IVF through their insurance, throughtheir employers and things like that.
(13:29):
Is that when they come in to talk tome about having a baby, I can talk
to them about their family goals.
I don't have to justfocus on the here and now.
I can plan their treatment based onwhat their true hopes and dreams are.
And so I think that's one of themost exciting things is that, you
(13:51):
know, you come in to see me andyou're 34 years old and you tell
me you wanna have three children.
That's a very different conversationthan if your 34-year-old.
You say, I, it's one and done.
And so it's very, it makes me feel goodthat I'm able to really look at the
future and not just solve the immediateproblem, but lay the groundwork.
(14:15):
So we're going to havesuccess in the future.
and we're hope and dream dealers.
And you know, we're allvery empathetic people.
Talking to one another today.
What would you say to someonewho's not getting that?
I think everyone should get thatconversation with their doctor, but you
and I both know that that's not happening.
So how can a patient who let'ssay, doesn't have a choice with
where she can go, 'cause she'slimited by where she lives.
(14:35):
How would you recommend that she advocatefor herself if she's not getting that
kind of conversation with her doctor?
I mean, I think she should probably, youknow, make a. A list of questions and you
know, sometimes I think when people getin front of their doctor, they kind of
freeze up and they don't know what to ask.
And so I think it's reallyhelpful to come up with questions.
I think it's important to talk to friendswho have been through, to get some
(14:56):
sense for what their experience was, andthat way they can compare and contrast.
Because sometimes I think patients seethings that we do and they, feel like that
that's not what other physicians would do.
And then when, when they kind of see,almost like the egg conversation where
not every egg is gonna make an embryo.
When they see that sort of, this isthe way kind of it flow, the flow is
in the clinic, I think they betterunderstand like, yeah, I'm coming in
(15:18):
and I'm gonna maybe not see the doctor.
I'm gonna have my ultrasound,I'm gonna have my blood draw,
and then I'm gonna leave.
And so I, I think just talking to otherpeople, they can get a sense for what
they should expect, but if they'renot getting that, I think it's really
important for them to bring it up withtheir doctor or with their nurse so that
they do get the experience they hope for.
I think it's also important to knowthat although your physician, nurses,
(15:41):
medical assistants, administrative staffare all part of your family building
team, that it's important that if youneed to go outside of that realm to
get the support you need, that's okay.
Alright.
If you need to seek a mental healthprofessional or you need to join a support
group, or you need to just start writingin a diary to get some of those emotions
(16:05):
out of you and into a, in a safe place.
Those are all very, very goodthings to do and not every.
Physician and patient are goingto be a perfect personality match.
And so if you live in a place wherethere's lots of doctors to choose
from, then sometimes you can pickyour physician based on that.
But that's, as you mentioned, that's notalways a possibility because of geography.
(16:30):
Most fertility doctors arein major metropolitan areas.
Quite frankly, most people in the UnitedStates actually don't live in those areas.
They have to travel to getto the care that they need.
And so going through some of thesea other avenues can kind of a bridge
for maybe what may be missing.
(16:50):
Yeah, true story.
I had a patient once who toldme to stop being so happy.
And stop being so positive with her.
And I said, I, I just can't, Ican't change how much I believe
that, this is going to work for you.
I just can't change that.
And, um, she was angry and, um,you know, she transformed once she,
(17:12):
you know, obviously reached hergoals, but that was a very funny,
we still laugh about it together.
I still tease her about it, abouthow she said literally like, it
was a dead serious conversation.
It wasn't like, can youstop being so happy?
Was like, we need to talk.
You're just too happy of a person for me.
So I, I hear what you, I hear whatI understand what you're saying.
When sometimes it could be a mismatchbetween the doctor and the patient.
(17:34):
The other thing to keep in mind is whenyou're going through infertility, you
are going through a grieving process.
No one grows up thinking, Hey, I wannado IVF, that's how I wanna have my baby.
And so you really are goingthrough a grieving process and
sometimes as you're doing that, we.
You end up having some anger that goestowards those who are trying to help you.
(17:58):
And we understand that, but it, butI think it's also very insightful
to recognize, hey, I am goingthrough this grieving process.
I have a medical condition called Celiac,where essentially I'm one of those
people who really can't eat gluten.
And I remember when I first gotdiagnosed, it was very isolating.
I came home from work one day and I was.
(18:20):
Angry.
Angry.
And my husband turns at me andhe's like, why are you angry at me?
And I'm like, I'm not angry at you.
I'm angry at everything.
And that was, it was one of themost wonderful like moments of
my life because I didn't evenrealize it until that moment.
So where do you see the futureof IVF and fertility care headed?
(18:43):
If you were to make some predictions?
I think that it's going to expandto people who otherwise would
never consider having families,would never be able to have.
Families.
So for example, we've already seenan explosion of care being able to
be given to LGBTQIA plus patients.
So whether they have a partner of thesame sex, of a different sex, someone
(19:06):
who's transitioned, whatever it maybe, we're expanding more and more.
Our ability to get good care tothose patients, to get them what they
need and to do it in an inclusiveenvironment where they're not.
They don't feel likethey're the odd person out.
I think the other area that's going tocontinue to transform is the genetic
testing that's being done and wherewe started with just PGTA being able
(19:31):
to see, do you have 46 chromosomes?
No more, no less, and maleand female, and then PGTM.
With single gene mutations like TACcystic fibrosis, sickle cell anemia,
now it's expanding further out.
So you've got the structural mutationsfor people who carry translocations.
You've got PGTP for people who carry thesepolygenic traits that are not a real easy.
(19:54):
Identify one gene, thereforeyou have a problem.
Therefore, we avoid that embryo.
We look more at the folks who havemaybe a handful of embryos for those
who are fortunate enough for thatand say, okay, you have a really
nasty family history of diabetes.
These embryos are more prone to that.
So maybe we don't transfer those first.
Maybe we transfer these other onesfirst and help to shape some of those
(20:18):
discussions going forwards so thatsome of the big known problems we can
avoid from the beginning rather thanhaving to scramble into treatment,
which depends a lot on what's yourinsurance and what's your access and
what's your health literacy level.
And so I think that's really goingto wrap, continue to rapidly evolve.
It's already rapidly evolving,but I think it's going to.
(20:41):
Continue to just be a rollercoasterthat goes a hundred miles an hour
at improving those capabilities.
I'm glad you brought up PGTP 'causeI think a lot of patients aren't
offered it and I feel like you can'tgive informed consent about genetic
screening of your embryos unlessyou know what all your options are.
And so many patients are justtold about just standard PGTA.
(21:01):
I'm one of the only doctors inNorthern California that offer.
Is PGTP.
The fact that you broughtit up, I think is huge.
I think including in yourbook is really helpful.
So patients can then advocate for itand if they aren't able to get it,
the clinic that they're going to,then they can find another option.
Because once your embryos are biopsied,you know, I get patients who come to me
and say, I wanna do PG TP on my previouslybiopsied embryos, and I don't want to do
(21:24):
double biopsies just for PGTP ideally.
But thank you for bringing thatup and bringing awareness to that.
When you think about the book reachingboth patients and doctors, what is the key
message you hope each group takes away?
Well, for doctors, we really wantthem to know that we wanna put
this information out to help them.
(21:44):
Um, we don't want them to feelthat we're trying to supersede
what they're telling the patient.
We make a couple of points in thebook to say, you know, there's
more than one way to do this.
If your doctor does somethingdifferent than what we
mentioned, just ask your doctor.
I'm sure they have a good reason for that.
So we really want it to be helpfulfor physicians, actually for family
members as well, instead of a patienthaving to go to the family member.
(22:06):
And explain all the details of IVF.
They can just say, Hey, look atthis chapter and read about this.
And for patients the same.
We just want patients to be able, atany stage in their journey, whether
they're starting out and they'rethinking about doing IVF, whether
they're right in the middle of it.
Or after they've already finished andthey're still thinking about their FET,
their frozen embryo transfer, we wantthem to be able to jump around in the book
(22:27):
without having to read the whole book.
So it really is something that willbe a reference for them when they
come in for each of their visits or,afterwards, after IVF is even over with.
We very intentionally thought of both.
patients when we wrote this book tomake sure that it was really going to
be more of a help than a hindrance.
(22:48):
None of us wanted to go to our nationalmeeting and somebody throw our book at us.
And we also recognize thatthere's a lot of noise out there.
And just because it's loud does notmean that the information's accurate.
And we wanted to give good,strong, reliable information
to those who are seeking it.
.Can you please tell us where people can find you if they
(23:08):
would like to work with you?
So I'm Dr. Carrie Ian, and I'm the one in.
Fabulous.
Las Vegas, the fertilitycenter of Las Vegas.
Our website, we do a lot ofremote telemedicine consults.
We see patients from all over the world.
And so if anyone wants to findmy little component of that
world, that's where you find me.
(23:29):
I'm in Nashville, Tennessee.
I'm not on Broadway.
That's the place when people cometo Nashville where they mostly wanna
go, but I'm not very far from there.
We are always accepting new patientsand certainly you can go into our
website and we would love to see you.
I am at Texas Fertility Center.
I actually have two locations.
One is in New Braunfels, Texas, whichis right in between San Antonio and
(23:52):
Austin, and my other location is in Corp.Christi, Texas, which is on the Texas
coast, and I also do a lot of telemedicineand see patients from all over.
Love it.
And where can listeners find your book?
Oh, Carrie, were you gonna add something?
I was gonna add for the podcast,the fertility docs uncensored.
You can go to fertility docsuncensored.com, and that's our website.
(24:15):
And so that'll give you informationon locating the podcast, which
you can find at all the normal.
Podcast locales.
So, uh, apple Podcasts Spotify,all of those usual places.
, That website will also give you linksdirectly to the book, which you can either
go through to find there, or you can lookat Amazon, Barnes and noble bookshop.org.
(24:37):
Any of the places that you wouldnormally go to buy books, we're
on the Target website as well.
We're all over the place, so reallyif you just type in the IVF Blueprint
book, you should be able to find.
Find it one way or the other
Awesome.
is available in hardback,audiobook, and ebook.
Excellent.
Is there anything else youwould like to add today?
(24:58):
more than anything.
We hope patients take hope out of this,that they can understand this, that this
journey is possible, that they will makeit through to the end, and that there's.
A huge team of people on their siderooting for them, not just their own
family and their own clinic, but reallythe IVF world in general is very, is
(25:20):
full of very good cheerleaders and.
We all have that experience of beingout in the world and somebody figures
out what we do and they say, oh yeah,I, you know, I am in the midst of
my IVF cycle, or I had two babiesfrom retrievals or what have you.
And it's pretty much always a cheerleadingtype of response of, I'm so happy for you.
I'm so glad that that happened.
(25:41):
You know, I'm sorry you're going througha struggle right now, there's hope
and there's support for everybody,and we hope more than anything people
take that away from our book and thetechnical information that we're trying
to provide in a bite-sized fashion.
Yeah, I always wanted to be a cheerleader.
It's a true story every year in highschool, I tried out, I never made the
cheer team and I, I'm making up for that.
The only thing you know, I don't wearis a tiny little skirt, but I feel like
(26:03):
I'm waving pom-poms every single day.
,thank you so much, Dr. Abby Evelyn, Dr. Kerry obedient, and Dr. Susan
Hudson for sharing your insights today.
And I can't wait for our listenersto read the IVF blueprint.
It truly is such an incredible resource.
For anyone navigating IVF or yourfriends or family members, they
should get a copy too so that theyknow what you're going through.
(26:26):
If you enjoyed this episode, make sureto subscribe to the Egg Whisper Show
on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcast.
You never miss a conversation like this.
Thank you all for joining.
Keep sparkling, keep asking questionsand learning, because remember, the
more you know, the better it will go.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.