Best of Wednesday 11/5: Colts trade for Sauce Gardner, we break it all down!

00:00 – 12:14 – The Colts go all in and trade for Sauce Gardner, what the move means, the hefty price tag it cost, Daniel Jones’ future, AD Mitchell gets put in the deal, will Gardner play on Sunday in Berlin?

12:15 – 35:51 – Jeff waves goodbye to AD Mitchell, we take callers on the big trade, has Chris Ballard absolved himself from the fan base?, we take more callers, are the Colts in Super Bowl or bust mode now?, someone defends Jeff’s AD Mitchell thoughts, more pressure on the Colts pass rushers now?

35:52 – 46:49 - ESPN Colts reporter Stephen Holder joins us to discuss the magnitude of the Sauce Gardner trade, the conviction the Colts have in Chris Ballard and the window they have, Carlie Irsay’s level of belief in this regime, this is a great trade if what happens…, expectations this season and going forward

46:50 – 56:08 - New York Jets reporter Zack Rosenblatt of The Athletic joins us to give New York’s perspective on the Sauce Gardner trade, his contract and how it was structured for him to get dealt, AD Mitchell’s role in the trade, was the return what he thought it would be, his Sauce Gardner story research he hasn’t had a chance to write yet

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
For oh my, oh my lord, the Jets are trading
sauce Gardener to the Indianapolis Colts.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Sauce Gardner, sauce Gardener, sauce Gardner, He's an Indianapolis Colt.

Speaker 3 (00:19):
We were shocked.

Speaker 4 (00:19):
Got the opinions on sauce Gardener.

Speaker 5 (00:21):
Wow, Wowow.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
The Colts looking for help on the back end of
that secondary, to help lou Anaumo, so they go all
in and make the trade for sauce Gardener twenty twenty
six first round pick, twenty twenty seven first round pick.

Speaker 6 (00:34):
The Colts just determined our time is right now, Our
window is right now.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
We just opened it up and sauce Gardener is on
his way. This is not the same old, same old.

Speaker 6 (00:44):
This is different.

Speaker 7 (00:45):
A team that has aspirations of winning the Super Bowl
epan next year or two, which I think they should.

Speaker 8 (00:50):
The windows wide open.

Speaker 6 (00:50):
It's just a massive, massive swing here by the Colts.
Collard Nephosis, stuff like this. This has the opportunity to
be the best secondary in football in Indianapolis.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
Right now, we turned around.

Speaker 9 (01:00):
Guys.

Speaker 4 (01:01):
We are back, baby, we are we are back.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
Classic, we are bed we are bad.

Speaker 8 (01:10):
I want you to put the word up to here
we back on.

Speaker 9 (01:14):
I understand me.

Speaker 8 (01:21):
There you go.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
You were worried about whether or not you'd have good
things to write about yesterday Kevin Bowen and James Boyd,
and apparently you got a lot to write about yesterday.
Good job on the intro again, Mark Dyton, Good morning, everyone,
Welcome into the Fan Morning Show. I'm jeff Rickord and
We've got a lot to discuss today. Kevin, We'll start
with you. Sauce Gardner was never a name that I
even considered when looking through trade possibilities. When did it

(01:43):
first pop up on your radar when the news item broke?

Speaker 6 (01:47):
Yeah, yeah, he was definitely not I think one of
the big names rumored. It's certainly one of the biggest
trades in franchise history bar none. It is a sign
of what you think of Daniel Jones. It's a sign
of what you think of your twenty twenty five football team.
And you know now the expectations are February period. You

(02:07):
don't make this trade to stop at any other point
of the season. You make this trade to play in
the final game of the season. And it is a huge,
huge swing, and it's certainly something that is the most
unreally Chris like thing we've seen, particularly in season throughout
his tenure.

Speaker 3 (02:24):
Jams are going to have you a drilled down on that,
because that was the first thing I thought too. My
first thought. I want to get your take on this.
The culture all in on Daniel Jones. They clearly think
they have a championship window. They think they've got a
quarterback worth investing two first round draft picks in from
Chris Ballard to go shore up a defense to go

(02:45):
along with that offense. What was your first thought and
where do we go from here?

Speaker 5 (02:50):
Yeah?

Speaker 10 (02:50):
My first thought was, wow, I have to work a lot,
which was fine, and I think from there on a
more serious no, it had to be the reinforcement of
the Holy Trinity, so to speak. I think this move
solidifies the future a bit. This tells me that Carl ERSA. Gordon,
who I believe probably had some say in signing off

(03:13):
on this deal, trust Chris Ballard, trust Shane Styking, and
trust Daniel Jones. And so it's all but a formality
that Daniel Jones be brought back in some capacity after
the season, whether that's the franchise tag or an extension.
We will see before the present, like Kevin said, you
don't make this move to do anything other than playing
the last game of the year. And this is a

(03:35):
team that, by the way, hasn't been to the playoffs
since twenty twenty, hasn't won a playoff games in twenty eighteen,
So you're trying to check a lot of boxes this year.

Speaker 4 (03:44):
And I don't hate the move. I think that it's
an aggressive move.

Speaker 10 (03:46):
Certainly a lot of risk involved in it, because I
feel like cornerback is a very volatile position. You can
be very good, you know, one year, and very not
till good the next year. But even looking at some
of the numbers that saws Gardener's put up this year,
I know he missed his last game with concussion, and
unless it's a very severe concussion, I believe he should
be available at some point when they get over to
Germany to play the Falcons and perhaps make his debut.

(04:08):
But even looking at some of the advanced numbers, he's
still been a pretty good cornerback the last couple of years.
On his first few years in the league, he was
an All Pro first team All Pro first got to
do that since the NFL AFL merger in nineteen seventy
dropped off a little bit since then, but still a
very good player. And if you're thinking as a unit,
you'll get healthy with Tavera's Ward returning to the lineup. Then, man,

(04:31):
that gives you quite the trio cornerbacks with Ward, Gardner
and of course Kenny Moore.

Speaker 4 (04:36):
Who was a pro bowler in twenty twenty one.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
Well, this a big, huge move for the Indianapolis Colts
and they are not going to be without a first
round pick for the next two drafts.

Speaker 4 (04:46):
I don't want to work anyways. I don't want to
work own draft day.

Speaker 3 (04:50):
You guys will have a day off, but unless something
major happens rightly now and then, and Mark Dyketon, I
know you want me to get to it all addressed earlier.
No more a d Mitchell he also goes to as
part of this deal.

Speaker 11 (05:01):
No, no, no, we still have to keep the draft,
the counter going.

Speaker 3 (05:03):
At least still have more catches now because they have
no one other than that, huh, other than Wilson, they
got nothing left.

Speaker 4 (05:09):
Do you know plays quarterback for the Jets.

Speaker 3 (05:11):
I'm just saying, you got to throw the ball to somebody.
Do you know, of course plays quarterack for this He's
gonna have for us for completions a game, Justine, mean,
do you know who plays quarterback with that Jet?

Speaker 4 (05:20):
Yeah? They have quarterbacks who can't throw.

Speaker 3 (05:24):
My point is he's not on the Colts anymore.

Speaker 4 (05:26):
Yeah, I ain't gonna lied Tojae.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
He's on the Jets.

Speaker 10 (05:28):
We've all had some takes that one as like milking
the desert brother.

Speaker 6 (05:31):
That's okay.

Speaker 3 (05:32):
I still believe that Ady Mitchell is gonna be a
good wide receiver in this league before it's all said
and done. The talent is just there's talents of talent there,
Kevin Bowen. As we now go forward, Sauce Gardner is
even going to play on Sunday. I know he's coming
off concussion. He's also got to get here. Then he's
got to go over to Berlin. I'm guessing he's gonna play.
But what do we know about that?

Speaker 8 (05:51):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (05:52):
I mean, I would hope as long as he gets
through concussion protocol. And as James said, didn't play in
week eight, they had a bye week in week nine.
Passport should be good, right, didn't Jets already play in
London earlier this year?

Speaker 10 (06:03):
So let's get Milandy Low on the phone again. Make
sure she gets sauces.

Speaker 6 (06:07):
No for that, So yeah, I think probably too. Should
you send a gift basket to Xavion Howard for retiring?
If Xavion Howard doesn't retire, does this move happen?

Speaker 3 (06:17):
Probably not, yes, it all. Can you think it happens anyway?

Speaker 4 (06:21):
Yes, because you cut him.

Speaker 6 (06:22):
It all comes back to, well, I don't think they
were going to cut him until he did retire.

Speaker 4 (06:27):
Well, they should have been thinking about him.

Speaker 6 (06:29):
Well, should have been thinking and going to cut him
two very different things in LouAnn Riumo's world here. So
I did think about that yesterday. But yeah, I would
assume he plays You know what, what could he do?
Could he shadow Drake London as early as Sunday? You know,
could you give him those responsibilities? I think those are
all questions that we'll obviously see a play out here.
But you know, after the bye week, it's quite possible

(06:50):
when you make your trip to Kansas City, your cornerback
trio could be you know, Sauce Gardner, Mooney Ward and
Kenny Moore the second and that is right up there
with any and if you gonna take a swing like this,
you know, doing it at a premium position, doing it
with a player still in his prime, doing it with
a player that is not a rental contractually by any means,

(07:11):
that checks kind of all of those boxes there. You know,
we'll have James College, Zach rosenblat. It covers the Jets
on in a in a little bit, and it did
sound like and listening to Darren Amogi the Jets GM
yesterday that you know, basically the Colts offer kept on
getting richer and at some point, you know, to your

(07:32):
point Jeff earlier, sauce Gardner was never really a name
thrown out there as a trade deadline, you know rumor.
But as the Colts continued to up the ante, and
it seems like maybe ad Mitchell's presence in the deal
finally got it to the point where they said, all right,
we will do this. They said it was too rich
to say no to, and that's why they ended up,

(07:52):
you know, doing this trade. So it is kind of
wild that, you know, the ad Mitchell aspect to it
sounds like it might have been the reason why the
Jets finally said yes to it.

Speaker 3 (08:02):
Yeah, and also crazy for the Jets. I think they
picked up three first round picks and an additional second
round pick yesterday, didn't they through all this stuff?

Speaker 10 (08:12):
Yeah, they got Quinn Williams out of there and sent
him to the Cowboys. So they're tearing it down, trying
to reload man.

Speaker 3 (08:19):
And where does that now rank the Indianapolis Colts in
the AFC hierarchy? You still have the Chiefs, still have
the Bills. I have to think at this point in time,
the Colts are right there with those teams for this
particular year. Do you feel that way?

Speaker 9 (08:33):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (08:34):
I saw, and I don't know if they've been updated,
Mark maybe taking a look. I saw they were sixth
in Super Bowl odds. I believe third among the AFC teams.
I mean, it's a very jumbled group in terms of odds.
It's not like it's an overwhelming favorite or so. But again,
you make this trade firmly saying we are going to
play into the month of February, and you know, when

(08:56):
you look at their defense, I don't know if there's
a way to kind of quantify, but if you just
added up the sheer money, the contractual nature to the
starting eleven, certainly, and you look at where these guys
were drafted, I would venture to guess it's the most
invested defense in the NFL. I don't Maybe I'd have

(09:17):
to take a closer look at that, but I can't
think of anything that has more investments into it. So,
you know, for this to be a good trade, you
I mean that your defense has got to climb to
be in the top five unit. You know, James laid
out a little bit earlier how sauce Gardner's career's gone.
He's got to get back to be in the definit
all pro that he's been. And then lastly, you know,

(09:41):
you need to make the Super Bowl. I think those
are kind of your your parameters with where you're at
with this trade. But you know, to me, if you're
going to make a move like this, you do it
to impact the passing game, and that has been an
issue for the Colts defensively. You know, in a perfect world,
you know, would you have found the sauce Gardener equivalent
as a pass rusher? You know, yeah, But you know

(10:03):
that's a little nitpicking. I think Russian cover can go together.
And if your ability now is having a lockdown secondary,
that allows some of your longer developing pass rush pressure
to get home. And that's probably how you could view
this trade as well.

Speaker 3 (10:17):
You are correct. The Indianpois cults are now plus one thousand,
in other words, ten to one to win the Super Bowl.
Kansas City is first at plus six hundred, Buffalo Bill
second at plus seven hundred. Then you have the Eagles, Lions,
and Rams in between the Colts as far as what
the odds are for Super Bowl winners, and those will
obviously change over the second half of the season. And

(10:37):
that's the other thing, James, we still have a whole
half season to go here. It's great to be seven
and two, it's great to make the trade. You give
up two first round picks. Now the rubber starts to
meet the road.

Speaker 10 (10:47):
Absolutely got to hit the ground, run in and you
won't be whole at the very earliest. It will be
the Kansas City week when javaiaus Award is eligible to
come back from ir if he does come back that week,
so he won't be whole for a little while longer.
But at the same time, as Kevin alluded to, you
made this move to not only bolster right now, but
to give yourself, you know, a chance in the future

(11:07):
as well. So I look at this kind of like
a two year window. You know, you got a chance
to try to do something special this year. For sure,
you're going all in on this year. I make that
very clear, but I would imagine next year is pretty
big too. So just thinking back to when I first
started covering the team twenty twenty two, you end the
year on a seven game losing streak, get the number
four picking the draft. I mean, Jim Mersey hired one

(11:28):
of his former players to coach the team. It was
an awful decision. And then you look fast forward to
you know, four years later, and you're seven and two
with a chance to pete with you know, the perennial
contenders and try to stop you yourself as one.

Speaker 3 (11:40):
All right, coming up at a moment, we'll have to
check down. We'll talk about this all day long. We've
got Stephen Holder coming up top of the hour eight
o'clock talk some pacers with Jeremiah Johnson. Letter today, Marcus
and I see on the on the schedule today, looking
forward to that at a thirty Then Zach Rosenblatt will
stop by to talk a little bit more about all this,
coming up at nine o'clock. So a busy day. We've
got the check down coming next. Can't wait to get

(12:01):
to your texts, your calls, yet your reactions as Colts
Nation responds to this major trade by the Indianapolis Colts.
It's all straight ahead, and we'll tell you a little
bit about the first official playoff rankings in college football
next on ninety three, five and one. Well, I'm in

(12:28):
on Ady Mitchell kind of having a little bit of
a breakthrough this year.

Speaker 6 (12:32):
For all Kim numbers or James eighty catches for seven
hundred and fifty yards he's got for Adie Mitchell.

Speaker 3 (12:37):
Is that is that way out of the of the possibility,
because I think this guy is incredibly talented. Yeah, that's
about that's about five catches a game.

Speaker 10 (12:49):
Yeah, I don't think you're getting five catches a game.

Speaker 8 (12:51):
That's a lot. He'd be a number one receiver.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 12 (12:56):
No, you send Sauce Gardner to Indianapolis, Indiana first round
picks and the culture like Ady Mitchell taking nice having
you here. You know, we got Pittman, we got Pierced,
we got Warren, we got downs, and we got no
time for you've flipping the ball before the go line.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
Send him to the Jets. I'm in on eighty emerging,
especially in the second half of the season.

Speaker 8 (13:20):
I'm in there.

Speaker 6 (13:20):
Let's just say, if he has, you know, thirty five
catches for five gr it's probably a big year for him.

Speaker 3 (13:26):
A couple of tuths now, I think it'd be more
than that. We'll see.

Speaker 5 (13:40):
I'll own it.

Speaker 4 (13:42):
I don't mind.

Speaker 3 (13:42):
I still think he's an incredibly talented guy. He's incredibly
adept at shaking free of people, getting himself open in space.
When he figures it out, he's going to be a
number one receiver. James Boyd. I don't know if it's
going to be in the next year two years, but
I think he's going to be a really good player
in this league. I still Mark.

Speaker 6 (14:00):
I'm picturing the scene from et ad Mitchell forwards the
flight last night, and Jeff just out in the front yard, yep,
looking up into the sky. Heads out there got the.

Speaker 3 (14:12):
One out for him.

Speaker 4 (14:14):
He's in pouring something out for him.

Speaker 3 (14:16):
In my mind, they traded ad for sauce gardeners around.

Speaker 6 (14:19):
The boys in the front lawn as they slowly walked
back indoors.

Speaker 3 (14:24):
Uh. Mark, Let's get some reaction to Colts Nation over
the the trading of a d Mitchell for Sauce Gardner
O by the way, two first round draft picks went
along with that to the New York Jets yesterday, who
do we have on the line to get things started off?
Good to John, John, Good morning, and welcome in to
the Fan Morning Show. Give me your thoughts and first
reaction to the Cults trading for Sauce Gardener.

Speaker 13 (14:46):
First reaction trying not to laugh to that image of
you and the boy. But you know, Sauce has shown
that he can be a top three corner in the league.
He's going to be a good fit and lose offense,
and ultimately this is the next best thing after getting

(15:07):
an elite pass rusher, is getting an elite cornerback who
can help generate more coverage sex. There's been a lot
of talk, especially national media, about what the Colts gave up.
I think in the case of any trade, you have
to look at the team itself and what they have,
what they stand to lose. First round pick next year,

(15:28):
it's going to be in the twenties. What would you
potentially take. You probably want to get a cornerback. Oh, well,
you could possibly get an elite cornerback at say twenty
eight or hopefully thirty two. Well, here's your guy. This
is a moment when you got to put all chips
in periods, so to speak. And as the cults the end,
you just have to be, you know, a bit shocked,

(15:49):
but grateful that this is what they've ballaed in, the
Big three have chosen to do. And you know, as fans,
we're very motivated. Let's let's show him what we got
and hopefully make a deep run. And you know we've
been on vallad hasn't made you know, moves in free agency,
hasn't made moves at the deadline. Well, he made big
moves in the secondary free agency. It's this huge deadline moves.

(16:11):
Let's get after him, show him what we got. Thanks, guys, John,
can we get one more?

Speaker 6 (16:15):
All chips in? I thought the first one was next one? Gosh,
I was really hoping we get chips. Was that Jim
Mersay and Quinn Buckner having a child there? You know what?

Speaker 4 (16:27):
You know, I can only do it Quinn?

Speaker 10 (16:29):
Okay, I did go back and watch the video though,
use it in my story and period.

Speaker 4 (16:38):
There we go.

Speaker 10 (16:39):
Yeah, see, I don't know if I could do that
kind of voice. And also I can't you know.

Speaker 6 (16:42):
That didn't really seem to play out to all chips
in by the way memory service right.

Speaker 10 (16:46):
I mean it took a few years to get there,
but we're here now. I will say I can't interpret
that or really reenact that, because I'm not rich enough
to have the chopper in the back. I don't know
if I send it on the tarmac over at the airport,
I think I might get arrested.

Speaker 3 (17:00):
We've got a text here from Elliott who wants to
know did Ballard get hit over the head? The Chris
Ballard I've been bashing the last few years has gotten
everything right this year, got the quarterback right, hammered the
first round, picked with Warren, made aggressive signing with Ward
and bind him in the offseason, and yesterday the blockbuster
double down trade for Sauce Ballard. I am now off
your back. You put the Colts on the map yesterday

(17:23):
saying we are all in congratulations for making Colts fans
happy and giving us hope. Kevin Bowen, how do you
feel about a lot of people saying that today?

Speaker 6 (17:31):
You know, I think certainly I would add two defensive philosophy.
You know Ballad, I think he had been a big
fan of what they were doing previously. I don't know
how much Schaine Stiken kind of influenced the lou Anarroumo higher,
but you know they obviously were on the same page
to you know, get a little bit more creative on
that side of the ball, which I thought was absolutely critical.
So yeah, I mean, I think when you have eight

(17:53):
years of the results that you have, you don't want
to see continued stubborness. You don't want to see, you know, no, no, no,
I'm gonna double and triple down. You want to see change,
you want to see. You know, I've used this quite
often with Kevin Prichard. You know, Okay, soabonus and Turner
is not gonna work. We got to do something different.
It takes a lot, I think, when your positions of authority,

(18:14):
to admit when you're wrong, to admit that your blueprint
isn't working, to admit that you should do something else.
And I think that's what you've seen from Chris Poward
here over the last you know, seven or eight months,
on a variety of levels. Again, I would go back
to January in the defensive scheme, to John's call there earlier,
look at the whiteouts, you're about to play the rest
of the season, you know, and we'll see how much

(18:35):
Drake or how much Sauce Gardner can play on Sunday.
But you got Drake London this week, you got Rashid Rice.
When you come back to the bye, You've got Nico Collins,
You've got Jackson Smith in Jibba, You've got we'll see
about Travis Hunter and his health, but you've got Brian
Thomas Jr. I mean, these are some very notable whiteouts
that you're going to face the rest of the season.

(18:57):
And so you know your cornerback room getting to this life.
We're gonna see Ninco Collins twice. You're gonna see the
Jacksonville whatever du oh they trade for Jacob Baller and
Nico just seemingly cooks the Colts. You know. It is
I think paramount that you try to address the area
of your team that was not at a January level,
and that is the passing game. And you know, the

(19:18):
whole Ballard thought is always a debatable one.

Speaker 8 (19:24):
You know.

Speaker 6 (19:24):
I try to look at Ballat's ten years. Let's evaluate
each individual move by no means. I think Chris Baward
has been a poor drafter. I think he's had big
misses at the premium positions too often, particularly on the
defensive side of the ball. I'm talking edge, rusher and corner.
And when you look at the side of the building,
guys mostly the side of the building guys are not

(19:45):
premium position players. Well, this is an attempt to get
an elite talent at a premium sort of position, and
if you are able to hit on that, then all
of a sudden, this is a team that could be
one of the standing. So that I think is a
hat tip of Hey, if we're going to take swings,
you're not taking a swing for whatever. A guard, a linebacker.

(20:07):
You know, even as great as Jonathan Taylor's been in
his career, or the Forest Buckner's been his career, honey,
playoff games of the Colts, one of those guys, that's
just the reality. So, you know, taking a swing for again,
to me, one of the more elite positions that you
can take a swing for is something that makes it
makes a lot of sense. Even though the price tag
is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, in

(20:28):
franchise history.

Speaker 3 (20:29):
Two through nine, ten seventy number to call, let's go
to Matthew next on the Fan Morning Show, Matthew, let
it out, What do you got for me today?

Speaker 14 (20:37):
Hey, good morning fellas. I don't have too much to
talk about today, to be honest with you, I do
work every weekend, so I don't get to see a
lot of the Colts games. I haven't called in a
few months, so I thought I would at least call
to acknowledge the Colts trade is definitely solid. I don't

(20:57):
want to give Balord a ton of credit for it.
I'd rather give credit to Carly. I think it was
more her hands than his.

Speaker 8 (21:06):
Hmm.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
Interesting. I appreciate the phone call. What about the people
James that are saying this is all Chris Ballard's thinking
all changed once THEERSA Girls took over.

Speaker 4 (21:18):
That's a hard one answer. I don't think that's the case.

Speaker 10 (21:21):
I just think that they're a lot better than anybody
something to be So, I don't know if you know,
any owner is going to sign off on this move
if you're five and four versus being seven and two.
So I pushed back on that, I think, and I
think that would insinuate that Carl Air say Gordon is
like this super hands on owner where and I get
that she wears the headset, she's on the sideline, and

(21:42):
that kind of makes the headlines. But in reality, from
everything I understand about her ownership style and what I've
gleaned from people who work with her every day, it
seems like she's very much allowing people to do their
jobs and allowing them to do, you know, what they
have to to hopefully make this team better. Now, I'm
not saying she doesn't have a saying who you know
comes and who goes. Obviously their ownership group has to

(22:04):
pay the players you bring in, and saws Gardner is getting,
you know, a nice bag to come over to the Colts.
But no, I don't think that's the case.

Speaker 3 (22:13):
Yeah, you bring up the bag that Sauce Gardner has.
It's pretty friendly the first year or two, but it
starts to escalate. By the end of his contract, You're
looking at over thirty million dollars of salary. So it
really is let's see how these first couple of years
work out and then we'll go from there.

Speaker 10 (22:27):
Right, Yeah, absolutely, And then I look at it, like,
what's the guaranteed money that's left on the deal? I
think it's forty And then when's you're out, meaning when
does the guaranteed money in and you know, after whatever season,
because honestly, if you're not a quarterback, you rarely ever
get all of the money anyway. So yeah, I think
this is a fairly team friendly deal. I would have
to go back and look at the specifics of it,

(22:48):
but from what I understand. You know, if you look
at the salary cap and the way that position group
is getting paid. I mean, sarros Gardner a few months
ago sign of the richest deal ever for a cornerback,
and then you know how it goes Kevin in a year,
that'll be the fifth highest paid cornerback in the leg.
And it looked very good, especially if Sauce is.

Speaker 6 (23:07):
Able to return to an all pro form James big picture,
yesterday's move says what to you? And let me throw
a couple of Oh okay, Chris Bout and Chane Stiking.
I guess we want to tie them at the hip.
Let's just talk to Ballard because he's a longer term guy.
He's going nowhere. Now, you're here to stay, brother. We'll
see about the extension he is, I believe through twenty

(23:27):
twenty six. We'll see how that plays out Daniel Jones,
Oh you're.

Speaker 4 (23:32):
Here, brothers.

Speaker 10 (23:32):
It's either a franchise tag or an extension and Sam
with Alec Pierce. Yes, I mean because you drafted in
theory in the past. You drafted Ady Mitchell with the
idea that he would morph into a number two type
of receiver, possibly number one, and he hasn't amount to
any of that.

Speaker 4 (23:48):
He isn't even close to that.

Speaker 10 (23:50):
So with Alex having the year that he's having, yeah,
I definitely than he's somebody you got.

Speaker 6 (23:53):
To pay anything else I missed.

Speaker 10 (23:55):
I guess my question that I've been wrestling with is
what would be a successful season now? Meaning is this
we have to get to the Super Bowl or it
was all a waste? Or in my mind, I'm like,
is the AFC Championship Game enough for you to say
this was worth it and we're building something here and

(24:17):
we are close to breaking through.

Speaker 6 (24:19):
Yeah, that's a great question. I definitely wrestle with the
same thing last night as well, And I've kind of
come back to these three things in defining the success
of this trade. One Sauce Gardner getting back to be
an all pro. I don't want to act like he's
been a bad corner by any means here over the
last couple of years. But you are sending a message
by sending two first round picks for him that you

(24:41):
think you are one of the best players period at
your position. So that's for Gardner individually as a defensive unit.
As a whole, you got to have a top five defense.
I'll go back to what I said earlier in the show.
I would argue there's not another defense in the NFL
that has more first, second, third round picks, either where
they were drafted or how they were required. Then the

(25:03):
Colts plus all the contractual money involved in that unit.
And lastly, I don't know if you necessarily say, James
like super Bowl or bust this year, but at some
point here and however, you wanted to find this window
two to three years. I don't know what you know
how long this window is open.

Speaker 4 (25:19):
I get especially in football, it changes so fast.

Speaker 6 (25:22):
I mean, hell, two months ago it was blow everything up.

Speaker 10 (25:25):
And now my story was the window was boarded up
after you missed the know you missed the playoffs at their.

Speaker 4 (25:32):
Four straight year.

Speaker 6 (25:33):
Uh, and at some point you gotta you gotta, you
gotta win a super Bowl, period. I mean you don't
trade to first you know, you don't make the move
for Jalen Ramsey or AJ Brown and the Rams and
the Eagles just to you know, make it to January. No, no, no,
you do it to hoist it, to use the Chuck
Pigano phrase. So that I think is a very fair barometer.

(25:54):
And I get that it's as lofty as it comes
from a team's success standpoint, but I mean it is
very rare for teams to trade two first round picks
and consecutive drafts, And like, I don't want to act
like Ady Mitchell has obviously done much in the NFL,
but to other teams around the NFL, Ady Mitchell is
an attractive piece.

Speaker 4 (26:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (26:15):
I mean I'd be hard pressed in my whatever thirteen
years covering the Colts to find a player that has
been more universally talked about for his individual talent by
the coaching staff than Adie Mitchell. Yeah, I mean, Jimbob Couter,
Reggie Wayne James, they almost weekly go out of their
way to express what they feel in ad Mitchell. I

(26:35):
think you draft them thinking a little project, like absolutely,
and we're only a year and a half into it,
so obviously the two first round picks are ten years
of team control. Yeah, I mean that's a big deal.

Speaker 8 (26:47):
You know.

Speaker 6 (26:47):
Mitchell of course is already you know, nearly halfway through
his rookie contract. But yeah, that's where I would go.
Saus Gardner back to an all pro defense being a
top five unit. And I don't know about this, I
mean this year, yeah, AFC title. Yeah, that's probably where
I would go. But at some point in this era,
you gotta win it all absolutely.

Speaker 10 (27:05):
And then one thing to make clear on the trade
that involved Adie Mitchell from my guy at the Athletic
our Jets reporter Zach Rosenblatt, who will talk to in
nine o'clock hour, he reported that initially the trade did
not include Adie Mitchell. In the Jets push for him
so they believe in his talent, physical gifts, and I
think I wrote that in my story yesterday he is

(27:25):
or was the most physically gifted wide receiver on the roster.
I don't think that was even a question. I mean,
the guy if you look at his what was the
RAS the relative athletic score we all look at, and
for those who think I'm not speaking English, that basically
is on a ten point scale how athletic are you
for your position? And I believe Adie Mitchell is like
a nine point ninety nine, so you know, he's big, fast, strong,

(27:47):
can run like the wind, so to speak.

Speaker 6 (27:50):
But Chris Bollenz the Bible and then Ras book exactly right.

Speaker 10 (27:54):
But I think the issue that has plagued Adi Mitchell
so far in his career is the mental side of
the game. Can you lock in enough to be an
actually productive player? And that's the challenge that he will
face in New York. And to be quite honest with you, yes,
they might believe in your talent, but at the same time,
you're going to the situation where it's going to be

(28:15):
harder in my opinion, to show that Joe Case that talent.
The Jets have pleaded the third fewest passes in the league.
You're not going to an offense that airs it out
like with the Colts. And when I was going back
and reading the story, when I talked to Adie Mitchell
about the fumble, his mindset afterwards, and he said, you know,
my biggest takeaway from dropping the ball in LA was
not just holding onto the ball. It was oh, I'm expendable.

(28:38):
And he used those words, he literally said, quote, they
don't need a wide receiver, they already have some.

Speaker 4 (28:44):
And you know, lo and behold, you're getting moved.

Speaker 6 (28:46):
And if you believe the Jets GM who spoke yesterday,
he pretty much said that the Colts deal kept on
getting richer and richer. It was not. And again, believe
what you will, but you know, I think, based off
where I was at the trade deadline from a York standpoint,
I had heard quinnin William's name more than I had
heard sauce Gardner's now, right, And basically, once the deal

(29:07):
got to two first round picks, and as James just
said right there, it did sound like the ad Mitchell
aspect to it kind of said, all right, now, it's
just not the pure picks, it's also the player thrown
in there.

Speaker 3 (29:22):
All right, let's go to the phone lines two, three, nine,
ten seventy on the Fan Morning Show, the Colts trade
two first round draft picks and ad Mitchell to the
New York Jets for cornerback Sauce Gardner, a two time
pro bowler, all pro, I should say too, coming off
concussion though, So we'll wait and see if his availability
is good for Sunday in Berlin. Jinja Ninja joins us

(29:43):
next here on the Fan Morning Show. You got to
live up to that name.

Speaker 9 (29:46):
Now, what's up, wells, Good morning.

Speaker 3 (29:49):
Good morning?

Speaker 6 (29:50):
What's up?

Speaker 8 (29:51):
All right?

Speaker 9 (29:51):
Tupac had the juice, we got the sauce. We know that.

Speaker 3 (29:55):
Now it's good to start.

Speaker 9 (29:58):
Start Mark, feel free to hit me on the ones
and twos.

Speaker 10 (30:02):
JB.

Speaker 9 (30:02):
I'm killing you in the chat. You look good, dog.
I'm kidding anytime you feel I uh, I'm getting killed
in the chat too. I really think A d Mitchell
is gonna George chickens us right here. As long as
the Jets can get any sort of a quarterback in
the draft. Tank this year gets quarterback. Ad Mitchell is

(30:26):
borderline all pro. Next year, guarantee it.

Speaker 3 (30:29):
I'm gonna buy you lunch. Did you know you hire
you for this callbut to say you know, but I will.

Speaker 9 (30:37):
Hey, if we're going with a nine point nine r
A s that man can ball, let's set. He's just
mentally not there, Like, let's get this man problem.

Speaker 4 (30:48):
You gotta.

Speaker 9 (30:50):
Trade and the scenery is gonna I'm telling you it's
gonna help him and the blonder He's kid's gonna come
in work his butt off. I'm gonna go to a
news I think that's gonna happen. But it's all on
the Jets and because they are horrible now he can
play as good as he wants to play, but they're
tremendously bad and can't get him the ball.

Speaker 6 (31:11):
You think fans would feel it? Jinga Ninja, thank you
for the call, Jeff will venmo you here shortly. Do
you think fans are feeling differently if it was Anthony
Richardson in the trade versus Adie Mitchell. Thank you to
Heath for that.

Speaker 4 (31:23):
I think it would be probably more of a some
fans that would I think it would be more.

Speaker 10 (31:27):
Of like a bigger reaction to hey, this is the
number four pick you're punning on him.

Speaker 4 (31:33):
He sold he was a future.

Speaker 10 (31:34):
But honestly, Kevin I flay, that's a conversation that we'll
have at the end of the season. I don't see
a world where you give up two first round picks
and you hold on to a quarterback who, by the way,
is not going to be your guy moving forward. So
do you try to recoup some of your draft capital
that way, but probably grab more headlines if it was
ar but player for player, I mean, who's more valuable

(31:55):
at this point in their career.

Speaker 6 (31:56):
I did think about this yesterday, going back to the
Deforce Buckner trade. If I'm not mistaken, I believe Buckner
and Sauce Gardner kind of similar ages in their respective
NFL careers upon these trades. Buckner was traded for the
thirteenth overall pick, so obviously a higher pick than what
you think the Colts will be this year, but that
was it. That was the only pick he was traded for.

(32:18):
With Sauce, you are trading another first round pick. And
then again, however you want to define Ady Mitchell's trade value,
like I think Buckner's been a really really good player,
and to kind of make the equivalent of like what
does Sauce Gardner then need to play at to make
you think the same way you do about the Forest
Buckner trade.

Speaker 3 (32:38):
You want him to come back and be an All
Pro again?

Speaker 6 (32:40):
Yeah, which again which is very high, high praise. And
I think there's an element of team success like people
would call the Buckner trade. I think if you did
a poll, people would say the Buckner trade was a
good one, right, Yeah, I like it, And the team
success has been what nothing.

Speaker 3 (32:55):
But that's one player out of twenty two as well.

Speaker 6 (32:57):
Right, but again, when you make these trades, when you
raid first round pick, and now this being picks plurally,
there is a team component you can't ignore. You can't
just sit here and say, oh yeah, you know, checking
a box of January and putting up a wild card
participant banner is enough.

Speaker 10 (33:14):
I will say this to your point about what it
means to the rest of the team. What does this
move mean for your pass rush? You guys got to
get home. If Sas Gardner returns to an all pro level,
Javarius Ward returns and he's back to an all pro level,
you got two guys who are studs.

Speaker 4 (33:31):
On the outside.

Speaker 10 (33:31):
You have Kenny Moore, the second in the slot, who,
by the way, is a stud as well. If you
cannot get home, which has been an issue for them
this year, if you can't bring consistent pressure and make
life miserable on the opposing qbs, moving forward, Lord have mercy.
I will have a lot of doubt moving forward about
this past Russ group, because this.

Speaker 6 (33:52):
Is a dream.

Speaker 10 (33:53):
If you're if you are a defensive end right now
today on the coach roster, you're thinking all right, these
guys can go pressman and we can just go get
out to the quarterback.

Speaker 4 (34:02):
And that's the idea.

Speaker 10 (34:03):
I do think that it'll allow Luinarumo, the colt, the
defensive coordinator, to be more aggressive with some of his
play calls because he trusts the back end more. But
you got to get home. I mean this is, hey,
we didn't go get a defensive end. We believe enough
in you guys, so make me right.

Speaker 6 (34:18):
Yeah, that's the beauty of Russian cover is that you
do have the ability even though you didn't acquire specifically
a pass rusher too, and James, you just laid it
out perfectly to still impact that part of the game,
which you know again when we have these conversations to
pass whatever week or two, I was a little bit
more team pass rush than corner. But they do go

(34:40):
hand in hand to a degree. Right, Obviously the pass
rusher can insert himself into the game. I would, I
would argue easily acts like well, first off, that's not
a word. Secondly, you know TJ. Watts probably the best
example of it the last Sunday. You know, you just
don't throw out a corner for example, So yes, he
impacts the game. But the pass rusher can literally go

(35:02):
get the football a little bit easier.

Speaker 3 (35:03):
I think it's also clear looking back at the trade deadline,
all the big names that people talked about for pass rushing,
and some of them were already said to not be
on the market.

Speaker 12 (35:12):
Right.

Speaker 3 (35:12):
We knew that Max Crosby and Miles Garrett were said
by their teams, they're not going anywhere. Brian Burns didn't
get moved by the Giants. I didn't even hear a
lot of chatter about that. That didn't seem like it
was going to happen. Trey Hendrickson, you know. So I
also wonder if after kicking the tires and looking around
at defensive end and edge rusher, there really wasn't a
huge upgrade guy to be had, so then you turn

(35:34):
your attention to corner and go all in at that position.
I think kind of feels like that's kind of how
it went down.

Speaker 11 (35:40):
I think what Sauce Gardner got basically like the market
Michael Parson's trade means that the demand for pass rusher
or the compensation for pass rusher was so outlandish people like,
we can't even go there, it's too crazy.

Speaker 3 (35:53):
Two first rounders and a wide receiver for a corner.

Speaker 11 (35:55):
Right, But so then what was that going for Trey
Hendrickson or Max Crosby starting to a three first round
picks or something.

Speaker 6 (36:01):
Have the Colts been in the position Green Bay was
in back in the start of September? Do you think
they would have been in the mix for that Michael
Parson's type of deal.

Speaker 3 (36:10):
If they knew they had the a quarterback?

Speaker 11 (36:12):
Yeah, I think for sure.

Speaker 6 (36:13):
Right, if you knew, you uture view pass rush like
that or they view corner like that. I think they
view pass rush like that. I think every team has to. Yeah,
like that, Micah is Michaeh because they've been much more
active at corner. Yeah here in the last two months.
But the second plas I love Sauce Gardner. But if
you put them on a list, who's more valuable? I
think you say Michael Parson is not even close.

Speaker 11 (36:32):
Pass rusher is the second most important position in football
in my opinion.

Speaker 6 (36:35):
Yeah, definitely agree.

Speaker 3 (36:37):
Let's go talk to Dave next to two three, nine,
ten seventy on the Fan Morning show. You go, oh,
we got to take a break already, and we we
got rolling there?

Speaker 6 (36:44):
H Yeah.

Speaker 3 (36:44):
Stephen Holder coming up next, we'll get some phone calls
on the other side of that. It's the Fan Morning
Show at ninety three five.

Speaker 4 (36:50):
And one seven five.

Speaker 3 (36:52):
Mark Dyke, outstanding work. And the question today is are
the Colts in fact back? And where are they back?

Speaker 4 (37:00):
They are shout out to the wire.

Speaker 8 (37:02):
There you go.

Speaker 3 (37:04):
Let's go to the payless Lookers hotline right now. One
of our favorites. He covers the cults at ESPN dot com.
Steven Alder joining us on this fine Wednesday morning. Steven,
are the cults in fact back? And what does that mean?

Speaker 15 (37:16):
Even well? Mark Dyson, first of all, the MVP with
the wire reference first thing in the morning. Look, I
think they they are definitely onto something here. They think
they are excuse me, that's some allergies going on, so
bear with me here. But they think this is their time.

(37:37):
I agree with that, and now they've got to go
prove it right. This is the boldest move they have
made since I don't even know for sure, the boldest
move under Chris Ballard. And I think you have to
take the context here. Chris Ballard someone who is more

(37:58):
likely to trade out of the first round and try
to collect more picks and values his picks more than
perhaps anybody in the NFL. That's the guy who did this.
So imagine the conviction they must have for him, of
all people to make this deal. So I think they
are thoroughly convinced that they have a shot here. And

(38:19):
I don't think they I don't. I don't think there's
anything wrong with them seeing it that way. I think
they're right to feel that way.

Speaker 10 (38:26):
Well, I'll tell you what, Steven, you better get those
allergies together. Brother, you can't be allergency the sauce. The
sauce just got here, okay, so get it together.

Speaker 15 (38:34):
Today.

Speaker 4 (38:35):
I sound terrible, I'll be on TV.

Speaker 15 (38:36):
Sounding like a like an allergy commercial.

Speaker 4 (38:39):
But anyhow, that's all right.

Speaker 3 (38:40):
You're a pro.

Speaker 10 (38:41):
You know again, I won't snitch to anybody about how
you get things done. I remember a few times, you know,
the the upper torso was all dressed up and then
he had a couple of you know, shorts of sneakers
on it underneath. That's a little you know, secret there
for those listening from home. But all seriousness, Stephen, when
you look at what this move means beyond just the
position it's elf bringing in sauce, Gardner's find to bulls

(39:02):
of your secondary What do you think it says about
the faith Carly Ersa Gordon has in the regime, that
being Chris Ballad and Shane Styking.

Speaker 15 (39:12):
Yeah, I think she's a lot like her father. I mean,
she wants to win, all right. I will tell you
she's not spending all those hours in the building and
putting in all that work just to be eight and nine.

Speaker 8 (39:24):
All right.

Speaker 15 (39:25):
That woman works hard from every indication, right, we all
see her all the time, and you can agree or disagree,
or like or dislike how she goes about her job.
We don't even know anyway, right, But the point is
she's not doing all of that just to be average.
And she was very clear about that, I thought when
she spoke to us in her initial press conference. Right.

(39:46):
I mean she was raised by the man, a man
who cared more about winning than anybody perhaps in that building. Right,
Jim Ersay, he wore his feelings on his sleeve, and
this is his offspring. Okay, so why would she be
any different? So I think it reinforces what we probably
should have known about Carlie Ersa Gordon, which is that

(40:10):
she wants to win, and she wants to win Big.

Speaker 6 (40:13):
Steven Holder ESPN where you can find his work. Steven,
this is a great trade if what happens.

Speaker 15 (40:23):
It's a great trade if Sauce can play like Sauce
is capable of playing. Because he's been a little inconsistent,
that's just a reality. Now. Do we attribute some of
that to the ups and downs of playing for the
Jets abound mord bound franchise? Maybe?

Speaker 3 (40:43):
Uh?

Speaker 15 (40:44):
Is he just this? Was he just disinterested at times?
I don't know, But I think if there's anything that
can get you to lock in and to be the
player that you can be, it's an opportunity to go
win the Super Bowl. So I think the cults are
counting on that here. They're counting on him to come
in and to reset and to be the guy that
he knows he can be. And the reason I say

(41:06):
it'll be a success if that happens is because if
he can get back to being that guy, and he's
not that far away, but if he can be that guy,
they have potentially an elite defense with that secondary. I
don't think that's a stretch. I mean an absolute chance
to be elite. That secondary could be the best in
the game. If this guy comes out and plays the

(41:28):
way he knows how to play.

Speaker 3 (41:30):
We've been talking about that this morning. But also the
fact that does that secondary allow your pass rush that
extra half second, as James says, to get home. Does
any of it matter if they still can't pressure the
opposing quarterback.

Speaker 15 (41:46):
Yeah, it's for sure, right, And I would say this,
I've been on a record and I'll say it again.
I really think the pass rush has been adequate and
would have been more consistent if they did not have
what has been, you know, essentially at times a practice
squad level group of cornerbacks. You know, the injuries really

(42:08):
were devastating. Now they're getting better, they're getting healthier. Kenny
Morre's back, Jalen Jones finally makes his debut last week,
so that that has changed, But they still have had
at times one or two frankly bottom up the roster
guys out there playing cornerback in on Sunday against Aaron

(42:29):
Rodgers of all people. Right, So that's gonna change. And
then after the bye week, we would hope, I presume
that mooney Ward comes back. I mean that is to
think about it. Patrick Mahomes may have to go in
and game plan with Andy Reid knowing that he's gonna
face Sauce Gardner and Mooney Ward on the other side,

(42:50):
and then Kenny Moore floating around doing what he does.
That is a game changer that has a whole different
game plan. So I really do think if you're playing
up front, if you're the Forrest Buckner, if you're leat
tou Latu, you got to feel like this is the
best thing that's happening to you in a long time.

Speaker 10 (43:08):
So, Steven, and again we have Stephen Holder Coach's esper
and Porter joining us on the pay Less Slickers hotline. Stephen,
I would think because of this move, when you give
up two first round picks which could have been used
on quarterbacks if you wanted to go a different direction,
this means that you believe in Daniel Jones. And so
do you consider that just a formality at this point

(43:28):
that he is going to be the quarterback not only
this season, but beyond and for the foreseeable future.

Speaker 15 (43:34):
I think it's a reasonable, you know assumption. Well, you know,
it's got to play out obviously, but I think it's
a reasonable assumption. One of the things that but the
one thing I would say is that there is some
sentiment here that this is about going to win this year. Now,
Sausagartner's not a rental type of acquisition, right, He's going

(43:56):
to be here because the contract kind of dictates that.
I mean, you don't give up to first round picks
and then you know, cut a guy a year later.
So I think they're they're all in with sauce. But
I think this is about this year too to some degree.

Speaker 8 (44:11):
You know.

Speaker 15 (44:11):
One of the things that that I was told just
not to say that Daniel Jones won't be here. All
I'm saying is I think that is likely to happen.
But I also think this their preoccupation is right now
because this is an opportunity they've not had. One of
the things I was.

Speaker 5 (44:27):
Told is that this move is as much about the
Forest Buckner and Kenny Moore and you know, Zire Franklin
and guys who have been here a long time and
held out waiting for their their time, and they feel
like this is their time and this is to give
them an opportunity to say, hey, let's finish this job.

Speaker 15 (44:49):
I remember, coming out of last year, I wondered if
this if this this group of veterans, they had if
it had run its course, we all wondered, right, and
I thought that they might blow it up, and they
decided to run it back one more time with some changes,
of course, and it has paid off. So I think
this is now giving them an opportunity to say, hey,

(45:11):
here's another piece, go get it done.

Speaker 10 (45:13):
We'll hear from this team later today or at least
some of the players. If Sauce Gardner isn't made available,
I would imagine that if he's in Indianapolis by now,
he'll be talking today or at least tomorrow. But nevertheless,
even when this trade went through and after I had
done all the stories, one of the reactions I had
was thinking of the guys like the Forest Buckner and

(45:34):
Quenton Nelson, And for those two in particular, what do
you think it does for them to reinvigorate maybe their
belief in a franchise that they've been great for but
haven't had the overall team greatness.

Speaker 15 (45:48):
I mean, it's a it's not even a shot in
the arm, man, I think it's a I think it's
a it's a shot in the veins that seems like
I don't know if that makes any sense, but I
mean it has to just be a complete rejuvenation for
those guys. I mean, you know, think about it. You
leave all this blood, sweat and tears on the field

(46:09):
man and they have nothing to show for it. You know,
They've got all pro selections, they've got awards, they got
a lot of money, certainly, but not a lot beyond
that to show for it. And that's a tough thing
to have to swallow year in and year out. And
that could finally change, you know. And I think that
is a big part of the motivation here. And I

(46:32):
give the colts credit, you know for thinking of it
in those terms, because they deserve it. I feel like
that they really do think they deserve it.

Speaker 3 (46:40):
Steven Holder, always great to get your thoughts. Thanks for
joining us again on a morning show. We know you
have a valuable day ahead of you and we will
talk to you again soon.

Speaker 15 (46:49):
All right, guys talks, We bring in.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
Our next guest, Zach Rosenblad, who covers the team for
the Athletic and is kind enough to get up early
and join us on the Fan Morning Show and the
pay Less lookers high this morning. Good morning, Zach, kept
you busy yesterday, didn't we.

Speaker 8 (47:03):
Yeah, they always do. It's nothing new around here.

Speaker 3 (47:07):
How's this going down in New York right now?

Speaker 7 (47:10):
Yeah, you know, I think, as a Dust has said
a little bit, I think the general reaction has been
positive because of the amount of draft capital they got,
not only with this trade, but with the Quinn Williams
on with the Cowboys and just kind of reset the
board and now they have five first round picks of
the next two years. So but in the moment, you know,
and even now still honestly, it was pretty shocking.

Speaker 8 (47:30):
I don't think there's.

Speaker 7 (47:31):
Any inkling that Sauces available or even potentially going to
get traded. I mean, he just signed a new contract,
so like that. The moment it happened, it was one
of those moments where you're looking at the tweets and
making sure they're not fake.

Speaker 10 (47:42):
Yeah, that's certainly the case at least a mind as
well as Zach. And again, thanks for joining us on
the show. So reading through your story this morning, and
we collabed on a bunch of stuff yesterday, a lot
of Slack messages after that trade went down. But one
of the things you were able to report is that
this was not some last minute and it approached from
the Colts. This was something that had been working, They

(48:03):
had been working toward over a number of weeks. So
what can you tell us about just the process of
first reaching out to the Jets about Sauce and then
getting it over the finished lines to finally get him
in the Colts at uniform.

Speaker 8 (48:14):
Yeah, so, I mean, I think it was more like
a couple of weeks ago.

Speaker 7 (48:18):
They just had conversations, like all teams, do you know,
the Cults were calling around the league looking for a
corner and they called the Jets to ask them about
their corner backs, not Jets sauce, but Sauce was the
main part of the conversation. And the Jets were like, yeah,
we're not really training him unless somebody blows us away
with an offer.

Speaker 8 (48:34):
And the Cults were like okay.

Speaker 7 (48:35):
And then you know, you get back to now this
week and the Colts call again and they start offering
a little bit more, and as they keep having more conversations,
now offer more and more to the point where they're
in Mouji. The Jets GM couldn't really say no anymore.
And you know, they agreed on the draft picks, and
then Mouji wanted to throw in Ady Mitchell. I think
he was really high on his potential, so you add

(48:58):
him into that. And you know, Mouji kind of interestingly
said in his press conference yesterday, and this was kind
of you could kind of see it at the time,
but I didn't think they would train him right away,
but they structured in a way that would allow them
to trade him if the opportunity arose, essentially, which is
pretty crazy thing to admit, not crazy, but pretty interesting
thing to admit, because you know, that's the star player,
and that's someone who you built around and you just

(49:20):
announced that your cornerstone a few months ago.

Speaker 6 (49:23):
Zach, thanks for the time this morning. If we had
this conversation yesterday at nine oh five and I told
you saus Gardner was about to get traded, you would
have thought the compensation. Compensation would have looked like what.

Speaker 8 (49:35):
Man, that's a good question.

Speaker 7 (49:37):
Multiple firsts for sure, Like that's what I would have thought,
like that, Yeah, yeah, probably, yeah. I mean, I it's
hard for me to even answer that because I just like,
it wasn't a thing not even considered. So you know,
like if you asked me like the same question about
Garrett Wilson right now, I don't know that I would
have a good answer probably two first three first in
a player or something like something crazy like that. So

(49:59):
you know, it's rare that non quarterbacks gets traded for
multiple first It takes a really special player. I do
think Sauce is maybe better than some of the perception
that's gotten out about him at this point. He is
a flawed player, like he's not Patrick Sartan, but I
think he's been one of, if not the top five
best corners in the NFL over the last five years.

Speaker 6 (50:17):
So could you delve a little bit deeper into that?
And I hate to throw out letter grades, but I
am the son of two teachers, so I tend to
kind of do that. You know, maybe early in his
career he was what a plus type of player and
maybe I don't know, this year it's you know, a
minus B plus if you want to get super technical there.
And also, could you hit on the how much shadowing
did he do for? You know, a variety of defenses

(50:38):
he played for?

Speaker 7 (50:40):
Yeah, so I'll answer the second part first. You know,
with the Robert Solid defense, they had their guys staying
on their side, so they had sas Gardner on one side,
d d read on the other and he almost never traveled.
With this new defense, he was traveling a little bit
more and still wasn't like one hundred percent of the time,
but he was traveling and he was doing a pretty
good job of it.

Speaker 8 (50:58):
And then oh, you asked about like the grades, so
I'd say.

Speaker 7 (51:01):
Yeah, eight plus the first two years. I mean, in
all pro, your first year in the NFL is pretty crazy.
And I think in retrospect, Jets fans, in realistes spoiler
they were and what that did was it raised the expectations.
So the last two years, where I'd say he was
a BB plus, probably they.

Speaker 8 (51:16):
Thought that he was bad and that was not the case.

Speaker 7 (51:19):
The reality of Sauce is like fans, not only Jets fans,
but especially Jets fans, focused on the things that he
doesn't do, which is he doesn't really get interceptions and
he hasn't historically been a great tackler, But they don't
focus on the thing that he does do, which is
keep the receiver from catching the ball, and he does
it as well as anybody in the NFL. Quarterbacks do
not throw it in his direction, which is why harder

(51:40):
for him to get picked a lot of times because
you know, I think he think he averages a catch
against him every twenty snaps, which is the best rate
in the NFL in terms of like how how rarely
he gives up the catch, and in terms of targets,
he's like top ten this year as well. So quarterbacks
just don't throw it in his direction. And you know,
when when the Colts get healthy and they have various awards,

(52:00):
it's gonna be very interesting to see how that goes.

Speaker 4 (52:03):
Zach.

Speaker 10 (52:04):
I'm sure you haven't been able to catch up with
saus just yet, and I'll probably do it on my
end here if he's available today in Indianapolis. But do
you get the sense that he even thought that was
a possibility on his end, or that he was open
to that idea.

Speaker 4 (52:17):
I know he tweeted about, you know, all love to
New York.

Speaker 10 (52:20):
But it is quite the flip from you know, a
couple months ago being the highest paid, richest contract in
cornerback history.

Speaker 7 (52:29):
Yeah, you know, when I understand he did not see
it coming at all. I don't think it was something
that was really broached to him at all. But I
think he'll take it in stride. I think he's somebody
that is highly motivated already. Anyway, He's somebody who has
been taking a lot of the losing that he's had
a deal with pretty bad. And I imagine that he's
as he sits down and thinks about what's going on

(52:50):
in Indianapolis and how good they are right now, like
he hasn't been on a team with this kind of record.
The best the Jets were with him were six and
three to start the twenty twenty two season, and then
they won seven games whole season. So I imagine he's pretty
excited for the opportunity to play meeting for football at
this time of the year.

Speaker 6 (53:05):
A flight plan that is a podcast listened to last
night was Zach Rosenblatt from The Athletic. He joins us here, Zach,
I thought I heard you, And if I misheard you,
I don't know, blame it on my dumb brain. But
did you say at some point this offseason you went
to Detroit to do a little bit more of a
future story on Sauce?

Speaker 8 (53:23):
Yeah? I sure did it. So I went to Detroit.

Speaker 7 (53:25):
The main goal was to do in Aaron Glenn story,
which I did, but while I was there, I wanted
to also dig into sauce in his background.

Speaker 8 (53:31):
I went to his high school. I walked to the.

Speaker 7 (53:32):
School with the AD. I talked to his coach, I
talked to, you know, one of his old teammates. Like
I was getting ready to do it. I focused on
Aaron Glenn Want the lead end of the season, and my
plan was to write the Sauce story early in the
season after a win. And so, as you can imagine,
the Jets just got the first win a few days
ago and Sauce wasn't even playing. So I just like
have not had the opportunity to write it. And then,

(53:54):
you know, as it happens in this job, sometimes you
put a lot of work into something and then you know,
events happen and that keep you from me able to
pursue it. But maybe I'll write it down the line
if the if the Colts go on like a Super
Bowl run this.

Speaker 6 (54:05):
Year, maybe a snippet of your boots on the ground
reporting I selfishly, I love to see Sauce Gardner now
all of a sudden obsessed with the game of golf.
But I'm sure your your boots on the ground led
to some other things there.

Speaker 8 (54:17):
Yeah, so I'd said.

Speaker 7 (54:18):
The funny thing about him, was you know he's a
guy that they had him at receiver in early in
high school and he was like buried on the depth chart.
They had a cornerback that like got injured, and you know,
I have desperation the like maybe we should just try
Sauce there. They throw him out there. He like dominates
that game and he never looks back. And one of
his coaches told me that like before that had happened,
like he has all these old dms on Twitter from

(54:40):
Sauce where Sauce is like, coach, I think you should
play me, like I think I'm pretty good.

Speaker 8 (54:43):
I think your guys are making mistake not playing me.
Like he had the confidence like that.

Speaker 7 (54:47):
The coach said he like he had confidence before he
even had the skills necessarily, Like he just believed in
himself completely from the beginning. And then you know he
was off for the race when he got Cincinnati. I
don't even think he ever let up a touchdown and
and yeah, you know he's a guy that you you
guys are gonna love there in that lot, especially the
media for the locker room wise, the fans will like
him until they get mad about him by any interceptions.

Speaker 8 (55:07):
I guess, like Jets fans.

Speaker 3 (55:09):
I'm just curious before we let you go, Zach, as
a follower of the NFL day in, day out and
an objective guy, how are the Colts viewed right now?

Speaker 7 (55:18):
That's a good question. I you know, I think they
were kind of a laughing stop going into the season.
It felt like, and you know, you bank on Daniel Jones,
and but I think the reaction I've heard just you know,
listening to podcasts about trades and kind of just you know,
canvassing Twitter, I'd say outside of Indianapolis, I think they're
getting pretty criticized for this deal because what they're what

(55:39):
they're doing, and it's a statement that they believe in
Daniel Jones, and you know, it's a risky proposition, as
the Giants saw. So I think they're getting criticism for that.
But the Colts believe in what they have. They're you know,
they're whatever, what are they seven to two? And just
field like a team that can go on a run.
So I don't blame them for doing it, especially because
I personally am pretty high on slus Gardner.

Speaker 3 (56:00):
Well, thanks for stopping by. We again appreciate your time
and your insights, and we will run into you down
the road as they say, have a good one, yeah,
you two guys.