Andrea Sachs, Travel Reporter for the Washington Post, discussed how to save money on inoculations and health advice for travel. Then Frommer's author Tamara Hinson discussed why so many travel prices are increasing, and how to save money anyway
Takeaways:
- Travelers must be aware of the significant costs associated with vaccinations required for some international trips, as they can be exorbitant.
- Consultation at travel clinics can lead to unexpected expenses, and it is advisable to research beforehand to avoid overspending.
- Primary care physicians can provide valuable recommendations for vaccinations, potentially reducing unnecessary expenses .
- It is prudent to investigate various travel clinics and compare prices, as not all facilities charge the same for vaccinations and consultations.
- AI is driving up the cost of hotels and airfares, but there are strategies for outwitting the machine
- Rental car companies moving to electric fleets is temporarily raising the cost of rental cars
- Airport expansion projects are making many costs at airports higher, primarily parking and food. So pack your own meals and get a friend to drop you off before your flight
- Many countries are adding additional fees to visit and at some top attractions. We looked at a few of the places where costs are increasing
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Washington Post
- Passport Health
- CDC
- HMO
- University of Maryland
- Cox Automotive
- Atomize
Mentioned in this episode:
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This week's show is supported by the new Smart Travel Podcast. Travel smarter — and spend less — with help from NerdWallet. Check out Smart Travel at the Link below:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:52):
Foreign.
Welcome to the Fromer Travel Show.
I'm your host, Pauline Fromer.
When you go to places thatrequire special vaccines or pills,
like malaria pills, who shouldyou consult?
(01:14):
Where is the best place to getthe information to keep you safe?
Our guest is one of our favorites.
She is Andrea Sachs from theWashington Post, and she wrote a
terrific article recentlyabout the pros and the very big minuses
of specialized travel clinics.
(01:35):
Hey, Andrea, thank you so muchfor appearing on the Fromer Travel
Show.
Oh, I love being on your show.
Thank you for having me on.
Okay, so you start out with awhopping bill.
This woman went to a travelclinic before a trip to Japan.
And how much did she pay andwhy did it cost that much?
(01:57):
It was actually to India.
To India, you're right.
Yeah.
But that's okay because everycountry, if you look at the cdc,
which still is a pretty goodsource for travel information, global
travel information, it has along list of things that you should
get in terms of vaccines, medications.
And she went to a travel clinic.
I was floored by what she paid.
(02:18):
It could have been worse.
So she paid $2,700.
Wow.
Her vaccination.
She didn't even get hermedications there.
She got it through a pharmacy.
But the original bill was $4200.
Good Lord.
Yes.
Was she going down into avolcano in India or she just was
taking a regular trip there?
Yes, she is going to mainstay.
(02:39):
And that's such a greatquestion because your itinerary really
matters when you decide whereto go and what kind of vaccines to
get.
And she was doing, like thestandard tour.
She is doing some volunteering.
She is going to be aroundelephants and dogs and cats.
But she already had a rapvaccine because she had been bitten
in the Caribbean.
And so she was actuallycovered for rabies, which is very
expensive.
It was just the usual batteryof vaccines.
(03:01):
It was typhoid and malariapills, but there were so many.
And she is newer.
I mean, she had a little bitof information, but she kind of said
yes to a lot.
But she did say no because shedid get the price down to 2,700.
But now, upon reflection,after we talk, she's like, I could
have said no to a lot more.
So was the price based on theinoculation she got or was it also
(03:25):
for the consultation?
How do you figure that out?
The consultation for her, she.
She got a discount by doingall her paperwork online.
I know it's very much.
Well, she went with a chain,so it's very formulaic.
And so she went, she wentonline, she did her paperwork.
She was able to knock it downto $99 from about $124.
(03:47):
Every little bit matters.
And then each vaccine costs alot because as we know healthcare
is expensive and some of themrequired two shots.
So she would have to get.
She paid double.
It wasn't like buy one, getone free.
You have to pay for each one.
Japanese and I could never say it.
Cephalitis.
Yes.
That one cost her over $1,000for both shots.
(04:10):
Wow.
And that was interesting.
You kind of unpacked whetheror not she needed Japanese encephalitis
shots.
What were the issues inrelation to that particular dise?
It is not very common whereshe was going.
Majority of people are asymptomatic.
Small percentage of peoplemight have neurological issues and
(04:32):
you cannot recover from that.
And that's what she focused onand that's what she decided to go
ahead with it.
So even though most people whoget Japanese encephalitis are asymptomatic
and doesn't change their livesat all, she got freaked out by the
small percentage.
Well, I can't blame her forthat, I guess.
But one of the reasons whythese vaccines were so high and this
(04:55):
is a problem in all healthcare.
And just as a side note, Iwent to my veterinarian, my new veterinarian
or my former veterinarian Ishould say.
Cause my vet retired.
I went to a new place and Iwalked out of what seemed like a
routine exam for my 15 yearold cat.
(05:16):
They took a couple of tests,but $840, oh my God.
And that's higher than anydoctor charges me.
And it's because thisveterinarian had been bought by one
of these big doctor for hire chains.
And you say in the articlethat this health clinic was it called
(05:38):
Passport Health, was that shewent to hundreds.
Of them all around.
They double the cost of thevaccines, right?
They can.
Yes.
I try to do a little bit ofcomparison and see I am totally spoiled
because I am with an HMO andthey have a travel clinic.
I paid 20, I'm also going toIndia and I paid $25 for all my shots
(05:59):
and $10 for my malaria.
And I just want you shouldlooks like this.
But I know a lot is coming outof my paycheck.
So sure I delude myself but.
But yes, you have to be sodiscerning and that you have to see
your itinerary, whether itreally is a risk, your health condition,
whether you're strong, a lotof insect Repellent is amazing.
Like insect repellent cancover a lot of the mosquito borne
(06:21):
illnesses, not all of them, but.
So what she should have doneis she should have done her research.
Maybe not gone to one of thesebig chains since they're ratcheting
up prices.
But if, then where does she go?
You should always start withyour primary and just go through
it because a lot of them youcan knock off and it's probably covered
(06:42):
by insurance or your plan, thepreventative vaccine.
So your flu.
But sometimes clinics willhave hepatitis.
So just ask your primary, yourprimary care physician.
Yeah, yeah.
And then ask your primary carephysician for recommendations.
Where do they take theirfamily, where do they trust?
Where do they believe thatyou're not getting an upsell or hard
sell?
(07:03):
And then you just have to shop around.
It's a little bit of a headache.
But if you look at the listfirst, whether it's CDC or World
Health Organization and justkind of know what you're going into,
what the risks are, and thenjust have that long conversation
and don't do it before, likeduring the consultation you're going
to pay.
But if a place is really good,you should be able to call and just
say these are my feelings,like what are you charging?
(07:24):
You know, what's yourcustomary advice for these kinds
of trips and these kind of activities?
And if they give you theminute to talk, then that's is reassuring.
And if they're like, well, youneed to come in and talk to a nurse
and pay $100, you just move on.
Yeah.
Do, do a lot of these clinicspost what they're charging per shot
online?
(07:44):
They do, they do.
I laugh because that's.
I looked online and I, I don'tknow, maybe just my background, I
am partial to universities andhospitals, but it's ridiculous because
those are for profit as well.
And I was like, oh, they havegreat prices.
And then the prices that Ilooked for University of Maryland
were outdated and werehundreds more.
(08:06):
Wow.
Like for Japaneseencephalitis, encephalitis, it was
700 for one and passporthealth actually was cheaper.
Huh.
So you can't necessarily relyon the fact that it's a university
affiliated hospital to save money.
And you can't, it sounds likeyou can't rely on what they have
online because they may nothave updated it.
(08:28):
No, you have to call and thiseven said it was as recent as, I
don't know, like April or May.
And I was like, well that'spretty safe.
But no, it was.
All the prices were Off.
Even the consultation fee was off.
So is it that prices have goneup a lot recently since they've gone
up for everything else in our lives?
Yes, that's what they weretelling me.
Yeah.
And they have to pass it on tothe patient.
(08:51):
Yeah.
So I did look into Canada.
Canada, you know, it's a nicedrive and you don't need any vaccines
to go across the border.
It is cheaper, it's open to everybody.
It's a public clinic.
You know, it's a chain as well.
But you could just go and savea lot, a lot of money and get a nice
trip.
Wow.
So go to Canada before you goto India.
That's the.
Give yourself that time forthe important vaccine stuff to kick
(09:15):
in, you know, don't do.
Some people were saying, we'lldo it on the way.
You know, your connection.
Don't do that.
You know, if you're connectingthrough London, that might not be
enough time for it to actuallyactivate, but.
Wow.
Yeah, you could.
Canada's a nice, you know,fall trip.
Oh, boy.
You know.
Yeah.
I feel like I have to talk tomy younger daughter.
She's about to go to Ghana forthree months and, you know, she's
(09:38):
a doctor in training, so you'dthink she'd think of these things.
But she's also a 22 year old,so who knows?
Exactly.
Yeah.
So I'm gonna talk to her aboutall this.
Well, yeah, it's a wonderfularticle as always.
Thank you so much, Andrea, forappearing on the Fromer Travel Show.
Thank you so much for having me.
(10:05):
We are going to be talkingabout prices rising in many sectors
of travel.
I'm saying that based on areally smart, in depth article by
my next guest on fromers.comshe is Tamara Hinson.
She wrote a, a fascinatingpiece about why prices are going
(10:27):
up in travel and there's amyriad of reasons which we'll unpack
and I'm going to try and comeup with some ways that you can still
save money even with theseheadwinds in travel.
So that's the goal for this interview.
We'll see how it goes.
Thank you so much forappearing once again on the Fromer
Travel Show.
Great to speak with you.
(10:48):
Hi.
So you, you kind of break downhow prices are going up in each sector.
You start with hotels.
Yes.
Why?
Why are hotels getting more expensive?
A lot of experts are tellingme it's still connected with that
kind of pent up demand for travel.
Post Covid people are kind ofstill feeling that.
(11:11):
So people are still travelinga Lot in.
A lot of people are travelingmore than they used to and they're
going to destinations whichmight be bucket list destinations.
These places haven'tnecessarily caught up with the pace
of hotel construction that's required.
So that's definitely one ofthe big reasons.
(11:32):
And that applies to Europe.
It applies especially tocertain places in African countries
as Morocco is seeing that to acertain extent.
Places where there's moreflight connections.
Rabat and Casablanca.
It's kind of a similar thing.
Just to restate what you said.
(11:52):
So we.
There weren't enough hotelsbuilt basically for this ongoing
surge of travel.
And this is particularly truein the destinations that have a lot
of direct flights coming tothem because they're being.
Yes, that's correct.
Yeah.
So could we say maybe going tothe secondary cities?
You will find.
Yes, a lot of secondary citiesare kind of taking advantage about
(12:17):
that.
Tourist boards are advertisinglower hotel routes.
And Japan has got especiallygood with this, trying to get people
to visit secondary cities.
And certainly the prices are alot lower.
For example, I know in Tokyothat prices, hotel rates have just
gone up and up.
But now I can go outside Tokyoand I can go to a city not everyone
(12:37):
knows of and I can get aperfectly nice room for about £35.
So, yeah, anywhere.
There are a lot of placeswhere Morocco has several new flight
routes coming in which isgoing to make it a lot more accessible.
Rabat and Casablanca too.
And you know, prices are kindof going up there now because it's
not so much because of asupply issues.
(12:59):
It's a lot to do with the factthat hoteliers know they can do it
because there's limited choiceright now.
Oh, yes, that's interesting.
And in terms of hotel pricesgoing up because hoteliers know that
they can do it.
Yeah.
A lot of that confidence isbeing sparked by AI and their ability
to know what the hotelier willpay or what the hotel guest will
(13:24):
pay.
You had a fascinatingstatistic on an AI company that has
been working with a certainhotel group.
And because of them looking atwhat they think the customers will
pay, how much more is thishotel group making than they did
before they started usingthese AI tools?
(13:46):
The stats are staggering.
The stat that I was going foris there's a company called Atomize
which worked with a hotelgroup and they found that in the
18 months that they've beenworking with that hotel group, the
revenues for that hotel groupwent up 38% over the space of 18
months.
And we've seen that withairfares as well.
(14:09):
There are companies now thatdo profiles of different cities and
what the people in that citypay for cars and pay for rent and
pay for food.
And then they sell this datato people who are selling travel
products online.
(14:29):
And those folks can thentailor their offer to what they think
they know you will pay.
Yes, absolutely.
So my big advice in that casewith AI is maybe what you do is you
hide your identity.
When you're searching forhotels, you use a virtual private
(14:49):
network and you fool them.
Yeah, I mean, that's one thingI hear time and time again.
Using a VPN can make a huge difference.
And it's interesting actually,because I have noticed that I will.
I mean, even when I wasbooking a flight to Germany the other
day, booking from Stansted inLondon to Hamburg, the flight was
(15:14):
really, really expensive.
And so when I tried booking itfrom, I think I used a VPN as if
basically wasn't sure where I was.
It was a lot cheaper.
So.
Absolutely.
Like using a VPN will help meis a good idea.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, let's jump to flights.
This is, this is going to be atrickier one because flights are
(15:34):
going up.
For what reason?
What's the main reason pricesare going up?
Okay, there's one thing.
There's the InternationalCivil Aviation Organization's carbon
offsetting reduction schemewhich kicks in in 2027.
Most, almost all airportairlines will be part of the scheme.
And it basically requiresairlines and 126 member states to
(15:57):
offset growth of CO2 emissions.
And some airlines have alreadykind of started trying to absorb
that cost by increasing theirairfares in advance.
There's only a few, Lefthander is one, but they refer to
it as various things.
Left hand refers to, I believeas an environmental cost surcharge.
(16:19):
So there's that there is thecost of fuel which is going up and.
That has to do partially withthe war in Ukraine.
Yeah, that costs of fuel havegone up significantly and fuel costs
always bump up airfares.
Yeah, I mean especially, Ithink we're definitely feeling it
(16:40):
in Europe more.
When I go to Japan now, forexample, it's kind of interlinked,
but the route is now quite different.
There is more areas you haveto avoid and I think the flight time
for me has normally gone upabout two hours.
So you have to avoid largeparts of Russia and various other
places that you didn't have toavoid before.
(17:00):
And for the first time,actually when flying back from Japan,
I flew back the other way over Greenland.
And I think that's becausethey're Trying to, you know, mitigate
those extra fuel costs.
Huh.
So yeah, so planes are havingto fly different routes, longer routes
to avoid the conflict zoneover Russia and Ukraine.
(17:22):
Interesting.
Okay, so we have fuel costs,we have potentially longer flights
to avoid certain areas.
And the costs at airports, sobefore you get on the plane, that's
going to be higher.
Right.
Why are those costs higher?
One of the reasons is, whichalso applies to airfares, there are
(17:45):
more people traveling.
It relates to that pent up demand.
So to a certain extent it'sbecause they can, which, you know,
the same way they can chargemore during holidays and which isn't
fair.
But with airports it is morestill tied into more people traveling,
but it's to do with the needto build and expand airports.
(18:08):
And, and, and that costs a lotof, and that kind of makes everything
about an airport more expensive.
I think it's only in the pastfew years really that you now have
to pay, I think at most UKairports to drop people off.
We didn't really have thatuntil relatively recently.
So you have that fee, you haveparking lots raising their prices,
(18:30):
you have the dam restaurantsat the airports who I guess are being
hit up by the airportthemselves with higher fees, passing
that along to the customers.
And also, you know, foodprices have gone up.
We all know that.
I see it just costs going upacross the board in airports because
yeah, the rent they're havingto pay, the leases they're having
(18:53):
to pay is going up.
And I mean it's kind of goodthat airports are being expanded,
but it's at such a rapid rateand doing that is very, very expensive
as well.
Right.
So what can you do?
We said we wouldn't give justthe problems, we'd give some of the
solutions, I guess.
Yeah, some of, some of the solutions.
(19:14):
Is have take an Uber to theairport instead of, you know, driving
yourself so you don't have to park.
Bring your own lunch.
Don't eat the airport food.
Yes, yeah, bring your own food.
And if you do, I mean Ipersonally find in the UK that Uber
has just almost becomeunaffordable now.
Especially, especially to the,to the airport.
(19:36):
But as a result, you know, wenow always compare and we've got
Bolt now in the UK for example.
I know in America I think youhave a lot more ride share.
But we only have Uber but, andBolt now and Bolt is often.
So if I go to Heathrow it costme about like normally 70 pounds
of Uber, but Bolt will be 50 pounds.
(19:57):
So again, just going with asmaller guy, you can do that comparison
shop.
Or maybe become such a goodfriend that your friends will offer
to drop you off at the airportso you don't have to use these services.
Yes, that definitely helps.
Crazy.
Crazy.
All right, so those are thecosts for sleeping, for flying, driving
(20:22):
costs are also going up if yourent a car.
Yes, this was fascinating.
So why are rental car costsgoing up?
The main reason with that,which is a strange one, is the fact
that a lot of.
A lot of fleets are.
A lot of rental companies areelectrifying their fleets.
(20:43):
And so, I mean, the good newsis that that's going to be kind of
a temporary thing.
But the, the downside is, isthat that whole process is quite
expensive.
Huh.
Just, you know, the wholeprocess of getting electric cars
and adding them.
That.
Yeah, that's costing a lot.
And one of the places I spoketo was someone at Cox Automotive,
(21:05):
which is huge.
Rental service technologyprovider estimates that87.87 of fleet
owners will add more electricvehicles in their fleets between
their fleets between now and 2030.
And that's a lot.
So in the long term, it'sgoing to be a good thing both for
the environment and for costs.
(21:26):
But in the meantime, that isgoing to cost more and it's going
to be a cost that they want to.
They have to pass on.
Yeah.
As well.
Here we go with AI again.
We know that Hertz and someother rental companies are now using
AI to examine the cars whenthey've been returned to see if they've
(21:49):
been damaged or in any way.
And some of these.
Some of these dings are thingsthat you won't even see with the
human eye.
So the amount of.
Of crap people are gettingfees for is rising.
Yeah.
So, I mean, with things likethat, I would.
Yeah, it's.
It's a hard one because likeyou say, some of the.
(22:10):
The damage is just is.
Is so hard to see with thenaked eye.
But I think there's more reason.
Ever take, you know, kind oftake good photographs of your car
inside and out before.
Before you drive it away and.
Yeah, just take it and ifthere's any dings on it, go and get
someone, an employee to kindof sign it off and just that they've
(22:33):
seen that ding if it wasn't onthe initial.
Yeah.
On the initial risk ofpossible damage.
Or take a photograph of itwith a timestamp on your phone, just
so it's clear those are somethings you can do.
Final ways that prices aregoing to be going up is tourist taxes
and entry fees.
(22:55):
Yeah.
Unpack that for us.
I mean again, sorry to soundlike a ST record.
It relates to, you know, thispent up demand for travel.
More people going to key hotspots.
Again, Japan is somewhere thatis quite trying to deal with that
by increasing prices ofcertain attractions and it's gonna.
(23:16):
Japan is going to beincreasing its tourist tax paid by
visitors.
At the moment I think it'sonly like $6.70 but very soon it's
going to be going up to $33which is a big leak.
Yeah, that's a big jump.
Yeah, it's a huge one.
And then at certainattractions, Himeji Castle, which
(23:38):
is, you know, one of the mostpopular castles in Japan.
They are hiking the price fornon Japanese uk.
In the uk, Wales, Liverpool,Manchester and Glasgow and quite
a few other cities are almostcertainly going to introduce a tourist
tax in the near future calledthe ats.
So the ats, what is that?
(24:00):
That is going to be requiredby all travelers aged between 18
and 70 from 60 non EUcountries coming into the EU.
So that's going to affect ahuge number of people.
And that will be introducednext year and it will be $23.
It's going to be a three year authorization.
So I guess similar to theEsther that we get.
(24:23):
And it is going to includemultiple short term stays.
So it's not just a one off onewhich is a good thing in, in the
Schengen area.
Is it E I T A S.
E T I A S. Ah, okay, yeah.
E T I A S. I got the number, Igot the letters in the wrong order.
(24:43):
ES and so that is a new feethat will, will apply to Americans
going to Europe, to SouthAmericans going to Europe.
Yes.
Yeah, it's from 16 non EUcountries basically.
So yes, it's, that's going toaffect a lot of people.
Yeah.
In Paris you've got theLouvre, which is ironic given it's
(25:06):
in the news right now.
It's going to increase its,its admission fee from 30, $35.
And most a lot of attractionselsewhere in France and Paris are
expected to be the same.
Versailles, Opera, Garnier,kind of, they're doing it as well.
So a lot of it is to do withover tourism and the way that has
(25:27):
impacted people that live inthat area and kind of trying to show
there is a benefit here if youlive locally, if you live next to
Louvre and it's really crowdedand you're constantly having to deal
with big crowds of tourists orissues that might arise from that
over tourism, there is abenefit for Them because in theory,
that extra money that'sgenerated will benefit them in some
(25:50):
ways.
Few tourist boards or citiesare going into specifics, but that's
the way they're marketing it.
Interesting.
Interesting.
I don't know how you getaround that.
I mean, I guess, well,forewarned is forearmed, at least
this way, now that we knowthat these entry fees are going up,
that there will be touristtaxes, we either choose destinations
(26:13):
which have lower fees and notourist taxes, or we swallow it and,
you know, do a picnic forlunch and skip breakfast.
And it's a tricky.
I mean, one thing that I'mseeing more in Europe and in the
uk, which I always saw a lotof in America and Canada, which I
think is great, there would becertain days when all museums are
(26:35):
free.
I think writing about SanAntonio, it's got first Thursdays
of every month when a lot ofthe attractions are free.
And I'm seeing that more inEuropean cities.
So it's always worth researching.
That is the one day a week or.
Or is it the first Friday ofevery month where museums are open
their doors for free?
(26:56):
Sure.
Yeah.
So that kind of planning inadvance and doing a bit of research
and I do also find, again,talking just about Europe, we have
some tourist passes which arereally good.
Some of them, I mean, some ofthem aren't great, but a lot are.
Amsterdam and Paris do havegood passes.
(27:17):
Right.
That cover everything.
And I would say the ones, the.
Ones for London are garbagebecause you can get into most of
the places, most of themuseums in London for free.
And.
And the past seems just there.
So you can go to the tortureMuseum and who the hell, you know,
it's to steer you to placesthat you wouldn't go otherwise.
(27:38):
So always look very carefully.
Yeah.
It's so important to do your research.
Yeah.
Because you need to.
The ones I really like arekind of places where you can kind
of bundle your attractionsand, you know, you can.
I think Prague does that,where you can kind of just tailor,
make it a little bit because,yeah, like you say, otherwise you
might end up paying and you'renot actually going to benefit if.
If it doesn't help you withthe attractions you know, you've
(28:00):
got in mind specifically.
Yeah, absolutely.
All right.
Well, it's a wonderful article.
As I was saying, it was.
It's on fromers.com go.
And thank you so much forappearing on the Fromer Travel Show.
Thank you very much.
I thank you so much for listening.
We've reached the end ofanother Fromer Travel Show.
If you enjoy the show, I hopeyou'll give us a good rating wherever
(28:23):
you stream your podcasts.
I hope you'll Visitus@fromers.com and I hope you will
continue traveling, becausethere is nothing as mind expanding
and soul satisfying as that activity.
That's it.
To those who are traveling,I'm jealous.
(28:43):
And may I offer you a heartybon voyage.
Sour candy on the table?
(29:04):
Lazy afternoons in yoursweatpants Watching cable?
Well it feels so far away?
All the channels seem the same?
Trying to remember all thesongs we like to play?
(29:25):
Cause those lazy afternoonscome so frequently these days it's
been so long and I cannot helpbut wonder Are you ever coming home?
I like you with your sourcandy in the boothouse on the lake?
(29:46):
Oh but I hate, I hate, I hate,I hate, I hate, I hate.
Foreign.
Welcome to the Fromer Travel Show.
I'm your host, Pauline Fromer.
When you go to places thatrequire special vaccines or pills,
like malaria pills, who shouldyou consult?
(01:14):
Where is the best place to getthe information to keep you safe?
Our guest is one of our favorites.
She is Andrea Sachs from theWashington Post, and she wrote a
terrific article recentlyabout the pros and the very big minuses
of specialized travel clinics.
(01:35):
Hey, Andrea, thank you so muchfor appearing on the Fromer Travel
Show.
Oh, I love being on your show.
Thank you for having me on.
Okay, so you start out with awhopping bill.
This woman went to a travelclinic before a trip to Japan.
And how much did she pay andwhy did it cost that much?
(01:57):
It was actually to India.
To India, you're right.
Yeah.
But that's okay because everycountry, if you look at the cdc,
which still is a pretty goodsource for travel information, global
travel information, it has along list of things that you should
get in terms of vaccines, medications.
And she went to a travel clinic.
I was floored by what she paid.
(02:18):
It could have been worse.
So she paid $2,700.
Wow.
Her vaccination.
She didn't even get hermedications there.
She got it through a pharmacy.
But the original bill was $4200.
Good Lord.
Yes.
Was she going down into avolcano in India or she just was
taking a regular trip there?
Yes, she is going to mainstay.
(02:39):
And that's such a greatquestion because your itinerary really
matters when you decide whereto go and what kind of vaccines to
get.
And she was doing, like thestandard tour.
She is doing some volunteering.
She is going to be aroundelephants and dogs and cats.
But she already had a rapvaccine because she had been bitten
in the Caribbean.
And so she was actuallycovered for rabies, which is very
expensive.
It was just the usual batteryof vaccines.
(03:01):
It was typhoid and malariapills, but there were so many.
And she is newer.
I mean, she had a little bitof information, but she kind of said
yes to a lot.
But she did say no because shedid get the price down to 2,700.
But now, upon reflection,after we talk, she's like, I could
have said no to a lot more.
So was the price based on theinoculation she got or was it also
(03:25):
for the consultation?
How do you figure that out?
The consultation for her, she.
She got a discount by doingall her paperwork online.
I know it's very much.
Well, she went with a chain,so it's very formulaic.
And so she went, she wentonline, she did her paperwork.
She was able to knock it downto $99 from about $124.
(03:47):
Every little bit matters.
And then each vaccine costs alot because as we know healthcare
is expensive and some of themrequired two shots.
So she would have to get.
She paid double.
It wasn't like buy one, getone free.
You have to pay for each one.
Japanese and I could never say it.
Cephalitis.
Yes.
That one cost her over $1,000for both shots.
(04:10):
Wow.
And that was interesting.
You kind of unpacked whetheror not she needed Japanese encephalitis
shots.
What were the issues inrelation to that particular dise?
It is not very common whereshe was going.
Majority of people are asymptomatic.
Small percentage of peoplemight have neurological issues and
(04:32):
you cannot recover from that.
And that's what she focused onand that's what she decided to go
ahead with it.
So even though most people whoget Japanese encephalitis are asymptomatic
and doesn't change their livesat all, she got freaked out by the
small percentage.
Well, I can't blame her forthat, I guess.
But one of the reasons whythese vaccines were so high and this
(04:55):
is a problem in all healthcare.
And just as a side note, Iwent to my veterinarian, my new veterinarian
or my former veterinarian Ishould say.
Cause my vet retired.
I went to a new place and Iwalked out of what seemed like a
routine exam for my 15 yearold cat.
(05:16):
They took a couple of tests,but $840, oh my God.
And that's higher than anydoctor charges me.
And it's because thisveterinarian had been bought by one
of these big doctor for hire chains.
And you say in the articlethat this health clinic was it called
(05:38):
Passport Health, was that shewent to hundreds.
Of them all around.
They double the cost of thevaccines, right?
They can.
Yes.
I try to do a little bit ofcomparison and see I am totally spoiled
because I am with an HMO andthey have a travel clinic.
I paid 20, I'm also going toIndia and I paid $25 for all my shots
(05:59):
and $10 for my malaria.
And I just want you shouldlooks like this.
But I know a lot is coming outof my paycheck.
So sure I delude myself but.
But yes, you have to be sodiscerning and that you have to see
your itinerary, whether itreally is a risk, your health condition,
whether you're strong, a lotof insect Repellent is amazing.
Like insect repellent cancover a lot of the mosquito borne
(06:21):
illnesses, not all of them, but.
So what she should have doneis she should have done her research.
Maybe not gone to one of thesebig chains since they're ratcheting
up prices.
But if, then where does she go?
You should always start withyour primary and just go through
it because a lot of them youcan knock off and it's probably covered
(06:42):
by insurance or your plan, thepreventative vaccine.
So your flu.
But sometimes clinics willhave hepatitis.
So just ask your primary, yourprimary care physician.
Yeah, yeah.
And then ask your primary carephysician for recommendations.
Where do they take theirfamily, where do they trust?
Where do they believe thatyou're not getting an upsell or hard
sell?
(07:03):
And then you just have to shop around.
It's a little bit of a headache.
But if you look at the listfirst, whether it's CDC or World
Health Organization and justkind of know what you're going into,
what the risks are, and thenjust have that long conversation
and don't do it before, likeduring the consultation you're going
to pay.
But if a place is really good,you should be able to call and just
say these are my feelings,like what are you charging?
(07:24):
You know, what's yourcustomary advice for these kinds
of trips and these kind of activities?
And if they give you theminute to talk, then that's is reassuring.
And if they're like, well, youneed to come in and talk to a nurse
and pay $100, you just move on.
Yeah.
Do, do a lot of these clinicspost what they're charging per shot
online?
(07:44):
They do, they do.
I laugh because that's.
I looked online and I, I don'tknow, maybe just my background, I
am partial to universities andhospitals, but it's ridiculous because
those are for profit as well.
And I was like, oh, they havegreat prices.
And then the prices that Ilooked for University of Maryland
were outdated and werehundreds more.
(08:06):
Wow.
Like for Japaneseencephalitis, encephalitis, it was
700 for one and passporthealth actually was cheaper.
Huh.
So you can't necessarily relyon the fact that it's a university
affiliated hospital to save money.
And you can't, it sounds likeyou can't rely on what they have
online because they may nothave updated it.
(08:28):
No, you have to call and thiseven said it was as recent as, I
don't know, like April or May.
And I was like, well that'spretty safe.
But no, it was.
All the prices were Off.
Even the consultation fee was off.
So is it that prices have goneup a lot recently since they've gone
up for everything else in our lives?
Yes, that's what they weretelling me.
Yeah.
And they have to pass it on tothe patient.
(08:51):
Yeah.
So I did look into Canada.
Canada, you know, it's a nicedrive and you don't need any vaccines
to go across the border.
It is cheaper, it's open to everybody.
It's a public clinic.
You know, it's a chain as well.
But you could just go and savea lot, a lot of money and get a nice
trip.
Wow.
So go to Canada before you goto India.
That's the.
Give yourself that time forthe important vaccine stuff to kick
(09:15):
in, you know, don't do.
Some people were saying, we'lldo it on the way.
You know, your connection.
Don't do that.
You know, if you're connectingthrough London, that might not be
enough time for it to actuallyactivate, but.
Wow.
Yeah, you could.
Canada's a nice, you know,fall trip.
Oh, boy.
You know.
Yeah.
I feel like I have to talk tomy younger daughter.
She's about to go to Ghana forthree months and, you know, she's
(09:38):
a doctor in training, so you'dthink she'd think of these things.
But she's also a 22 year old,so who knows?
Exactly.
Yeah.
So I'm gonna talk to her aboutall this.
Well, yeah, it's a wonderfularticle as always.
Thank you so much, Andrea, forappearing on the Fromer Travel Show.
Thank you so much for having me.
(10:05):
We are going to be talkingabout prices rising in many sectors
of travel.
I'm saying that based on areally smart, in depth article by
my next guest on fromers.comshe is Tamara Hinson.
She wrote a, a fascinatingpiece about why prices are going
(10:27):
up in travel and there's amyriad of reasons which we'll unpack
and I'm going to try and comeup with some ways that you can still
save money even with theseheadwinds in travel.
So that's the goal for this interview.
We'll see how it goes.
Thank you so much forappearing once again on the Fromer
Travel Show.
Great to speak with you.
(10:48):
Hi.
So you, you kind of break downhow prices are going up in each sector.
You start with hotels.
Yes.
Why?
Why are hotels getting more expensive?
A lot of experts are tellingme it's still connected with that
kind of pent up demand for travel.
Post Covid people are kind ofstill feeling that.
(11:11):
So people are still travelinga Lot in.
A lot of people are travelingmore than they used to and they're
going to destinations whichmight be bucket list destinations.
These places haven'tnecessarily caught up with the pace
of hotel construction that's required.
So that's definitely one ofthe big reasons.
(11:32):
And that applies to Europe.
It applies especially tocertain places in African countries
as Morocco is seeing that to acertain extent.
Places where there's moreflight connections.
Rabat and Casablanca.
It's kind of a similar thing.
Just to restate what you said.
(11:52):
So we.
There weren't enough hotelsbuilt basically for this ongoing
surge of travel.
And this is particularly truein the destinations that have a lot
of direct flights coming tothem because they're being.
Yes, that's correct.
Yeah.
So could we say maybe going tothe secondary cities?
You will find.
Yes, a lot of secondary citiesare kind of taking advantage about
(12:17):
that.
Tourist boards are advertisinglower hotel routes.
And Japan has got especiallygood with this, trying to get people
to visit secondary cities.
And certainly the prices are alot lower.
For example, I know in Tokyothat prices, hotel rates have just
gone up and up.
But now I can go outside Tokyoand I can go to a city not everyone
(12:37):
knows of and I can get aperfectly nice room for about £35.
So, yeah, anywhere.
There are a lot of placeswhere Morocco has several new flight
routes coming in which isgoing to make it a lot more accessible.
Rabat and Casablanca too.
And you know, prices are kindof going up there now because it's
not so much because of asupply issues.
(12:59):
It's a lot to do with the factthat hoteliers know they can do it
because there's limited choiceright now.
Oh, yes, that's interesting.
And in terms of hotel pricesgoing up because hoteliers know that
they can do it.
Yeah.
A lot of that confidence isbeing sparked by AI and their ability
to know what the hotelier willpay or what the hotel guest will
(13:24):
pay.
You had a fascinatingstatistic on an AI company that has
been working with a certainhotel group.
And because of them looking atwhat they think the customers will
pay, how much more is thishotel group making than they did
before they started usingthese AI tools?
(13:46):
The stats are staggering.
The stat that I was going foris there's a company called Atomize
which worked with a hotelgroup and they found that in the
18 months that they've beenworking with that hotel group, the
revenues for that hotel groupwent up 38% over the space of 18
months.
And we've seen that withairfares as well.
(14:09):
There are companies now thatdo profiles of different cities and
what the people in that citypay for cars and pay for rent and
pay for food.
And then they sell this datato people who are selling travel
products online.
(14:29):
And those folks can thentailor their offer to what they think
they know you will pay.
Yes, absolutely.
So my big advice in that casewith AI is maybe what you do is you
hide your identity.
When you're searching forhotels, you use a virtual private
(14:49):
network and you fool them.
Yeah, I mean, that's one thingI hear time and time again.
Using a VPN can make a huge difference.
And it's interesting actually,because I have noticed that I will.
I mean, even when I wasbooking a flight to Germany the other
day, booking from Stansted inLondon to Hamburg, the flight was
(15:14):
really, really expensive.
And so when I tried booking itfrom, I think I used a VPN as if
basically wasn't sure where I was.
It was a lot cheaper.
So.
Absolutely.
Like using a VPN will help meis a good idea.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, let's jump to flights.
This is, this is going to be atrickier one because flights are
(15:34):
going up.
For what reason?
What's the main reason pricesare going up?
Okay, there's one thing.
There's the InternationalCivil Aviation Organization's carbon
offsetting reduction schemewhich kicks in in 2027.
Most, almost all airportairlines will be part of the scheme.
And it basically requiresairlines and 126 member states to
(15:57):
offset growth of CO2 emissions.
And some airlines have alreadykind of started trying to absorb
that cost by increasing theirairfares in advance.
There's only a few, Lefthander is one, but they refer to
it as various things.
Left hand refers to, I believeas an environmental cost surcharge.
(16:19):
So there's that there is thecost of fuel which is going up and.
That has to do partially withthe war in Ukraine.
Yeah, that costs of fuel havegone up significantly and fuel costs
always bump up airfares.
Yeah, I mean especially, Ithink we're definitely feeling it
(16:40):
in Europe more.
When I go to Japan now, forexample, it's kind of interlinked,
but the route is now quite different.
There is more areas you haveto avoid and I think the flight time
for me has normally gone upabout two hours.
So you have to avoid largeparts of Russia and various other
places that you didn't have toavoid before.
(17:00):
And for the first time,actually when flying back from Japan,
I flew back the other way over Greenland.
And I think that's becausethey're Trying to, you know, mitigate
those extra fuel costs.
Huh.
So yeah, so planes are havingto fly different routes, longer routes
to avoid the conflict zoneover Russia and Ukraine.
(17:22):
Interesting.
Okay, so we have fuel costs,we have potentially longer flights
to avoid certain areas.
And the costs at airports, sobefore you get on the plane, that's
going to be higher.
Right.
Why are those costs higher?
One of the reasons is, whichalso applies to airfares, there are
(17:45):
more people traveling.
It relates to that pent up demand.
So to a certain extent it'sbecause they can, which, you know,
the same way they can chargemore during holidays and which isn't
fair.
But with airports it is morestill tied into more people traveling,
but it's to do with the needto build and expand airports.
(18:08):
And, and, and that costs a lotof, and that kind of makes everything
about an airport more expensive.
I think it's only in the pastfew years really that you now have
to pay, I think at most UKairports to drop people off.
We didn't really have thatuntil relatively recently.
So you have that fee, you haveparking lots raising their prices,
(18:30):
you have the dam restaurantsat the airports who I guess are being
hit up by the airportthemselves with higher fees, passing
that along to the customers.
And also, you know, foodprices have gone up.
We all know that.
I see it just costs going upacross the board in airports because
yeah, the rent they're havingto pay, the leases they're having
(18:53):
to pay is going up.
And I mean it's kind of goodthat airports are being expanded,
but it's at such a rapid rateand doing that is very, very expensive
as well.
Right.
So what can you do?
We said we wouldn't give justthe problems, we'd give some of the
solutions, I guess.
Yeah, some of, some of the solutions.
(19:14):
Is have take an Uber to theairport instead of, you know, driving
yourself so you don't have to park.
Bring your own lunch.
Don't eat the airport food.
Yes, yeah, bring your own food.
And if you do, I mean Ipersonally find in the UK that Uber
has just almost becomeunaffordable now.
Especially, especially to the,to the airport.
(19:36):
But as a result, you know, wenow always compare and we've got
Bolt now in the UK for example.
I know in America I think youhave a lot more ride share.
But we only have Uber but, andBolt now and Bolt is often.
So if I go to Heathrow it costme about like normally 70 pounds
of Uber, but Bolt will be 50 pounds.
(19:57):
So again, just going with asmaller guy, you can do that comparison
shop.
Or maybe become such a goodfriend that your friends will offer
to drop you off at the airportso you don't have to use these services.
Yes, that definitely helps.
Crazy.
Crazy.
All right, so those are thecosts for sleeping, for flying, driving
(20:22):
costs are also going up if yourent a car.
Yes, this was fascinating.
So why are rental car costsgoing up?
The main reason with that,which is a strange one, is the fact
that a lot of.
A lot of fleets are.
A lot of rental companies areelectrifying their fleets.
(20:43):
And so, I mean, the good newsis that that's going to be kind of
a temporary thing.
But the, the downside is, isthat that whole process is quite
expensive.
Huh.
Just, you know, the wholeprocess of getting electric cars
and adding them.
That.
Yeah, that's costing a lot.
And one of the places I spoketo was someone at Cox Automotive,
(21:05):
which is huge.
Rental service technologyprovider estimates that87.87 of fleet
owners will add more electricvehicles in their fleets between
their fleets between now and 2030.
And that's a lot.
So in the long term, it'sgoing to be a good thing both for
the environment and for costs.
(21:26):
But in the meantime, that isgoing to cost more and it's going
to be a cost that they want to.
They have to pass on.
Yeah.
As well.
Here we go with AI again.
We know that Hertz and someother rental companies are now using
AI to examine the cars whenthey've been returned to see if they've
(21:49):
been damaged or in any way.
And some of these.
Some of these dings are thingsthat you won't even see with the
human eye.
So the amount of.
Of crap people are gettingfees for is rising.
Yeah.
So, I mean, with things likethat, I would.
Yeah, it's.
It's a hard one because likeyou say, some of the.
(22:10):
The damage is just is.
Is so hard to see with thenaked eye.
But I think there's more reason.
Ever take, you know, kind oftake good photographs of your car
inside and out before.
Before you drive it away and.
Yeah, just take it and ifthere's any dings on it, go and get
someone, an employee to kindof sign it off and just that they've
(22:33):
seen that ding if it wasn't onthe initial.
Yeah.
On the initial risk ofpossible damage.
Or take a photograph of itwith a timestamp on your phone, just
so it's clear those are somethings you can do.
Final ways that prices aregoing to be going up is tourist taxes
and entry fees.
(22:55):
Yeah.
Unpack that for us.
I mean again, sorry to soundlike a ST record.
It relates to, you know, thispent up demand for travel.
More people going to key hotspots.
Again, Japan is somewhere thatis quite trying to deal with that
by increasing prices ofcertain attractions and it's gonna.
(23:16):
Japan is going to beincreasing its tourist tax paid by
visitors.
At the moment I think it'sonly like $6.70 but very soon it's
going to be going up to $33which is a big leak.
Yeah, that's a big jump.
Yeah, it's a huge one.
And then at certainattractions, Himeji Castle, which
(23:38):
is, you know, one of the mostpopular castles in Japan.
They are hiking the price fornon Japanese uk.
In the uk, Wales, Liverpool,Manchester and Glasgow and quite
a few other cities are almostcertainly going to introduce a tourist
tax in the near future calledthe ats.
So the ats, what is that?
(24:00):
That is going to be requiredby all travelers aged between 18
and 70 from 60 non EUcountries coming into the EU.
So that's going to affect ahuge number of people.
And that will be introducednext year and it will be $23.
It's going to be a three year authorization.
So I guess similar to theEsther that we get.
(24:23):
And it is going to includemultiple short term stays.
So it's not just a one off onewhich is a good thing in, in the
Schengen area.
Is it E I T A S.
E T I A S. Ah, okay, yeah.
E T I A S. I got the number, Igot the letters in the wrong order.
(24:43):
ES and so that is a new feethat will, will apply to Americans
going to Europe, to SouthAmericans going to Europe.
Yes.
Yeah, it's from 16 non EUcountries basically.
So yes, it's, that's going toaffect a lot of people.
Yeah.
In Paris you've got theLouvre, which is ironic given it's
(25:06):
in the news right now.
It's going to increase its,its admission fee from 30, $35.
And most a lot of attractionselsewhere in France and Paris are
expected to be the same.
Versailles, Opera, Garnier,kind of, they're doing it as well.
So a lot of it is to do withover tourism and the way that has
(25:27):
impacted people that live inthat area and kind of trying to show
there is a benefit here if youlive locally, if you live next to
Louvre and it's really crowdedand you're constantly having to deal
with big crowds of tourists orissues that might arise from that
over tourism, there is abenefit for Them because in theory,
that extra money that'sgenerated will benefit them in some
(25:50):
ways.
Few tourist boards or citiesare going into specifics, but that's
the way they're marketing it.
Interesting.
Interesting.
I don't know how you getaround that.
I mean, I guess, well,forewarned is forearmed, at least
this way, now that we knowthat these entry fees are going up,
that there will be touristtaxes, we either choose destinations
(26:13):
which have lower fees and notourist taxes, or we swallow it and,
you know, do a picnic forlunch and skip breakfast.
And it's a tricky.
I mean, one thing that I'mseeing more in Europe and in the
uk, which I always saw a lotof in America and Canada, which I
think is great, there would becertain days when all museums are
(26:35):
free.
I think writing about SanAntonio, it's got first Thursdays
of every month when a lot ofthe attractions are free.
And I'm seeing that more inEuropean cities.
So it's always worth researching.
That is the one day a week or.
Or is it the first Friday ofevery month where museums are open
their doors for free?
(26:56):
Sure.
Yeah.
So that kind of planning inadvance and doing a bit of research
and I do also find, again,talking just about Europe, we have
some tourist passes which arereally good.
Some of them, I mean, some ofthem aren't great, but a lot are.
Amsterdam and Paris do havegood passes.
(27:17):
Right.
That cover everything.
And I would say the ones, the.
Ones for London are garbagebecause you can get into most of
the places, most of themuseums in London for free.
And.
And the past seems just there.
So you can go to the tortureMuseum and who the hell, you know,
it's to steer you to placesthat you wouldn't go otherwise.
(27:38):
So always look very carefully.
Yeah.
It's so important to do your research.
Yeah.
Because you need to.
The ones I really like arekind of places where you can kind
of bundle your attractionsand, you know, you can.
I think Prague does that,where you can kind of just tailor,
make it a little bit because,yeah, like you say, otherwise you
might end up paying and you'renot actually going to benefit if.
If it doesn't help you withthe attractions you know, you've
(28:00):
got in mind specifically.
Yeah, absolutely.
All right.
Well, it's a wonderful article.
As I was saying, it was.
It's on fromers.com go.
And thank you so much forappearing on the Fromer Travel Show.
Thank you very much.
I thank you so much for listening.
We've reached the end ofanother Fromer Travel Show.
If you enjoy the show, I hopeyou'll give us a good rating wherever
(28:23):
you stream your podcasts.
I hope you'll Visitus@fromers.com and I hope you will
continue traveling, becausethere is nothing as mind expanding
and soul satisfying as that activity.
That's it.
To those who are traveling,I'm jealous.
(28:43):
And may I offer you a heartybon voyage.
Sour candy on the table?
(29:04):
Lazy afternoons in yoursweatpants Watching cable?
Well it feels so far away?
All the channels seem the same?
Trying to remember all thesongs we like to play?
(29:25):
Cause those lazy afternoonscome so frequently these days it's
been so long and I cannot helpbut wonder Are you ever coming home?
I like you with your sourcandy in the boothouse on the lake?
(29:46):
Oh but I hate, I hate, I hate,I hate, I hate, I hate.
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