The Gun Guy - Full Show - 10/18/25

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of
a free state, the right of the people to keep
in bear arms shall not be infringed. This is the
Second Amendment, and this is the Gun Guy.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Boom boom boom boom bang bang bang bang boom boom
boom boom bang.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Bang bo Guy Ralphord on ninety three WYPC.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
And good afternoon, and welcome to the Gun Guy Show
on ninety three WYBC. I wasn't here last week. It's
great to be back in the seat and in front
of the microphone. We were preempted last week by the
IU football game. And I gotta tell you I always
miss doing the show. I always have a lot to
talk about. My wife rolls her eyes at me when

(00:53):
I get preempted for whatever reason, and I always say,
but man, I had I had things to say. I
may not say things in that sentence, by the way,
I may use a four letter word, but I have
things to say, and I had things to talk about.

Speaker 4 (01:10):
I have.

Speaker 3 (01:10):
There are important things going on in the world of
the Second Amendment, and here I am not doing a show.
At the same time, we were preempted because of a
conflict between ten to seventy the fan one O seven
point five having to cover some other things, so we
covered here on WIBC the IU game. And the reason

(01:33):
I say I have mixed emotions about that is I
really wanted to see the Indiana Oregon game. You know,
I didn't go to IU in Bloomington. I went to
undergraduate Depa, but I went to law school at IU
IU Indianapolis. My law school says Indiana University, and excuse me,
my diploma says Indiana University on it. And so I

(01:54):
consider myself an IU grad. And I just love what
the Indiana football team is doing this year and what
they did last year, and then playing the number three
team in the country last week in the Oregon Ducks.
And I'm a big Oregon fan too because I had
my middle son who was a tremendous football player in
high school, first team All State and actually went to

(02:18):
Oregon with the intention of playing football, ended up suffering
a very serious knee injury and not playing, But he
stayed out in Oregon for his four years and for
a while entertained the idea walking on that never happened.
In the meantime, I went out there and hung out,
went to some games and became an Oregon fan. So

(02:39):
here like my two favorite programs that I always root
for are playing each other. So a long winded way
of saying, that was the game I really really wanted
to watch, and my wife and I hung out, I
did some barbecue out on the back deck and had
a good afternoon. So I hope you enjoyed your Saturday
evening last week as well, albeit without the Gun Gun Show.

(03:03):
So we'll make up for it today and a lot
of interesting things to talk about what I've posted about
on social media, both on Twitter X whatever we're supposed
to call it these days, we'll just call it Twitter
REX and on Facebook. And by the way, if you
want to go see if you want to see the
video on this and the news article, just go to

(03:25):
my Twitter feed. It says that guy Ralford. Give me
a follow if you don't mind while you're on there.
But it's something that I talked about a lot today
in my Gunlow class. You know, I'm always pitching my
essentials of Indiana Gunlow class here on the show, and
I taught that today out in Avon at Parabellum Firearms

(03:47):
and Indoor Range. Had a full room great group, very engaged,
a lot of questions, a lot of discussion, But what
garnered a lot of that discussion was what I'm about
to get into, which is apparently there is a growing
nationwide trend, and it's a trend involving TikTok. And listen,

(04:09):
I don't have TikTok. I don't have the app on
my phone, I don't follow it on my computer. I
had some current some concerns, like the United States government
has had some concerns about the Chinese government owning TikTok.
So anyway, I'm not a TikTok person. I do Facebook,
I do Twitter, that's about it. I have an Instagram account,

(04:31):
but I can't remember even the last time I was
on it, and I don't post on it. But there's
a TikTok trend apparently. That caught my attention when I
saw this article, and I posted, as I say, both
on Twitter X and Facebook about this, because this is
just incredibly mind boggling to a mind boggling degree, this

(04:57):
is so incredibly dangerous that I can't believe kids are
doing this. There's a TikTok trend apparently, and this is
happening in Indiana and and and and this is reported
by w l k Y, which is actually a Louisville station,
But they were talking about something going on in southern
Indiana and it's spreading, which is what they're calling a

(05:22):
door kick challenge on TikTok where kids and the video
and the pictures I saw these kids have coverings on
their face, kind of a ballot clava looking thing, and
they're coming up to people's doors and they're kicking their

(05:42):
doors with the intent of kicking the door in. And then,
in their infinite wisdom, I say sarcastically, they've decided to
incorporate airsoft rifles or airsoft guns into this prank where

(06:03):
they come up under your porch kick the door with
in an attempt to kick the door in, and then
if the door kicks in and someone comes to respond,
they shoot that person with their air soft rifle. If
you're not familiar with airsoft, it shoots a little hollow,
plastic BB essentially that's not designed to hurt anybody. It's

(06:28):
just does you can kids play games with them all
the time. Obviously you don't want to get hit in
the eye with one. But they shoot their airsoft guns
at whoever just responds to someone kicking in their door
and their buddies are videotaping this, and they all laugh,
they all run away, and then they go post it
on TikTok and they all feel very good about themselves.

(06:51):
Now you can imagine, as someone who focuses on the
laws of self defense and self defense training and the
use of arms in the process of defending oneself in
one's family and one's home, you can imagine exactly what
my thought process was, And I'm sure it's the same

(07:12):
thought process you're going through right now, which is you
have to be kidding me. It's hard to talk about
this without using profanity. The level of stupidity of any
kid who would engage in this and listen, I'm the
first to admit I did really dumb stuff as a
young kid, preteen, teenager, incredibly dumb stuff. But most of

(07:38):
the dumb stuff I did that my buddies all did
with me was all involving the risk of personal injury
to yourself, and it wasn't terrorizing scaring someone else that
in the process could also put you in extreme danger.
We did really dumb stuff with mini bikes and bicycles

(07:58):
and playing Army quote unquote with bb guns and building
ramps for our mini bikes, trying to be evil caneval
and and using the same things with bicycles and jumping
off roofs and just all kinds of really silly, dumb stuff. Yes,
but it mostly involved things that put ourselves in danger

(08:22):
because we were too stupid to recognize how dumb the
the thing was at the time and didn't involve terrorizing
other people and didn't put us in danger of getting
shot in the process. And that's the that's the mind
boggling part about this prank, because and I want to

(08:43):
talk I'll talk about the legal issues surrounding this here
in a minute, And I talked about this a lot
to my class in Avon. Again, big shout out to
the people who came out to Parabellum to attend this class,
and a lot of people, again were completely mystified, dumbfounded
by the level of ignorance that goes into to young kids,

(09:05):
and certainly they appear to be teenagers in the article
in the video doing something so colossally dumb, but coming
up onto someone's porch and in front of their house.
A lot of these are on ring doorbells. I have
a ring doorbell. I have other security cameras. I'm sure
a lot of you do too. Somebody comes up onto
my porch, unless I'm dead asleep, I'm gonna know that

(09:28):
person's on my porch through a ring doorbell or a
typical security camera. Well, I be able to distinguish the
airsoft gun this kid has in his hands from a
real rifle whatever form it takes, typically an AR fifteen
style rifle. Now again, I never got into Airsoft. I've

(09:52):
never owned Airsoft. I've never shot in Airsoft. The ones
I've seen, I believe have an orange tip on the
bar to designate them as being not a real firearm.
But a lot of times these kids that have these things,
and I've heard multiple police officers tell me specifically this,
they remove the orange tip so they paint them black

(10:13):
with some spray paint you can do in about three seconds,
and even with an orange tip with a lighting in
the middle of the night, because these things are happening
like two, three, four in the morning, middle of the night,
I'm awakened by my ring doorbell giving me a notification
I'm looking at this thing. Can I tell this as
an airsoft gun. Irrespective of whether I can tell it's

(10:36):
an airsoft gun. The person that kicks my door, now,
can some teenage kid kick my door all the way in?
It's always dead bolted. Could they kick it all the
way in? I don't think so, But let's say hypothetically
that same kid kicks my door all the way in,

(10:56):
my door slams open. Someone's standing there on my porch
with what appears to be a rifle. It's time to
take a break. But what exactly is going to happen
in that moment? Am I gonna walk around the corner aghast?
Oh my my door just opened, unarmed, and allow some

(11:19):
kids to shoot me with little airsoft pellets and then
they all laugh. After it's been videoed, they run off
and post it on TikTok, and everybody lives happily ever after.
On again. God, I want to use profanity. I'm talking
about this subject because of how incredibly dumb it is

(11:41):
and what position it puts a homeowner in. Undamn likely,
I'll put it that way. You kick my door in
in the middle of the night, I'll tell you what.
We're taking a break, we'll talk about what's gonna happen.
We're gonna talk about what's gonna happen in a lot
of homes all across Indiana, all across this country, and

(12:01):
what these kids are are doing in terms of not
only putting themselves at risk, but what they're likely to
put that homeowner through at the same time. And there's
a similar prank that's going on. I'll also get into,
but we'll talk about what the law the legal issues
are here. Kid is kicking on your door. He hasn't
yet even gotten through it, let's say, just kicks on

(12:22):
it a couple of times. He's standing on your porch
with an airsoft gun. You decide to respond. He's not
in your house yet, hasn't kicked the door open yet.
You decide to respond with a real gun. Are you
going to jail? You going to prison, You're going to
get prosecuted? Are you gonna get sued? All incredibly important

(12:44):
questions right now. We need to take a break. We're
almost twenty after we'll take a break. We'll take your calls.
Join the discussion. Give us a call here at the
Gun Guy Show. Three one seven two three nine ninety
three ninety three three one seven two three nine ninety
three ninety three. This is this Guy Realford on The
Gun Guy Show on ninety three WYBC.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
Second to none on this second amendment. This is the
Gun Guy with Guy Ralford on ninety three WYPC.

Speaker 3 (13:16):
And welcome back. I'm Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy
Show on ninety three WIBC. Now I'll tell you what.
We've had a caller call in and for the life
of me, I'll tell you what the way our monitors work.
Here Joe, I can finally read that Joe has called
in and has a question. Joe, Welcome to The Gun
Guy Show.

Speaker 5 (13:37):
Thank you, Guy, love your show.

Speaker 3 (13:39):
Thanks brother.

Speaker 5 (13:40):
You know WIBC everything you're doing. I got a question.
Why if I'm just, you know, at my house and
there's a ruly mob, you know, I know, the two
thousand keys, nothing bad in my neighborhood, you know, luckily
I have a good neighborhood. Whatever, But what if what

(14:04):
if they're actually infiltrating my house, you know, make the
castle all thing. But what if they're throwing something on
my roof that's on fire? That's my question?

Speaker 3 (14:19):
All right, Okay, they are they say, a Molotov cocktail
and they're lobbing that onto the roof of your house. Yes, okay, Well,
what the law says, and in my ones wants to
look this up? And I talked about this a lot
in my class today out in Avon, And what the

(14:41):
law says, and if you want to look this up,
it's Indiana Code section thirty five Dash forty one Dash
three Dash two. And part of that, as Joe mentioned,
is the castle doctrine. And what the castle doctrine says
is that you're justified. It's therefore legal for you to

(15:02):
use reasonable force, including deadly force, if you reasonably believe
that force is necessary to prevent or terminate an unlawful
entry into or attack on your dwelling. Now it goes
on from there. It talks about curtilage, and it talks

(15:25):
about your occupied motor vehicle. But we don't need to
talk about curtilage. My friend Kelly Old posts his bad joke,
which you've talked about having it torn curtilage and his
knee years ago. But curtilage and occupied motor vehicle we
don't need to get into at this point. We're talking
about your dwelling, that's where you live. So reasonable force,

(15:48):
including deadly force, is justified to prevent or terminate an
unlawful attack or entry into your dwelling. It's your home.
It was throwing a Molotov cocktail onto the roof of
your home and attack on your dwelling, an unlawful entry
into or attack on your dwelling. Hell, yes it is.
Could a Molotov cocktail burn your house down? Yes? Could

(16:11):
im off Malotov cocktail burn you and your family to
death thrown onto the roof of your house? Hell? Yes
it would. Are you therefore justified under an Indiana law?
Talk specifically about Indiana law. Is that is it an attack,

(16:31):
an unlawful attack on your dwelling by throwing a Molotov
cocktail on your roof? Yes? So that means under the
clear wording of Indiana Code thirty five Dash forty one
Desk three Dash two, you can use deadly force to
either prevent or terminate that. Now, again, is somebody just

(16:53):
you know, throwing a water balloon onto my roof? I mean,
I would want to be incredibly sure that what I
think I'm I'm seeing, I'm really seeing. But to answer
Joe's specific question, the statute is clear, I can prevent
an unlawful attack on my dwelling with deadly force as
well as prevent an unlawful entry into my home. And

(17:15):
that flows directly into this ridiculous prank that I'm discussing
where kids are coming up teenagers, apparently as part of
a TikTok challenge. God, I'm glad none of this stuff
exists when I was a teenager. I would like to
think I would have been smart enough to survive it.

(17:36):
But kids, as part of a TikTok challenge are coming
up onto people's porches wearing masks on their faces like
ski mask Ballaclovit type things, kicking on the door in
an attempt to kick the door in, and then ha
haa hilarious when somebody responds, they shoot them with their
airsoft rifles. They film it all and they post it

(17:57):
on TikTok later. Is kicking your door in an unlawful
entry into your home? Hell, yes it is. In Indiana,
we don't have the crime of breaking and entering. A
lot of people talk about breaking and entering in Indiana.
There's no such law in Indiana, no such crime, but
we have residential entry. Residential entry means it means someone

(18:20):
who without authorization enters your home. If your door's unlocked,
does that apply? Hell, yes it does. If your door
standing wide open, does it apply. Yes. If somebody doesn't
have authority to enter into your home and they come
into your home, that's residential entry. It's unlawful. It's a crime,
it's a felony. Now, when is an entry into your

(18:44):
home not unlawful? This is incredibly important. Entry into your
home is not unlawful if the person's invited, if the
person's name is on the lease or the mortgage or
the deed, we've established a pattern of conduct with them
where they're allowed to come and go in and out

(19:04):
of your home, including for instance, you've given them a key,
well them coming into your home, then it's not unlawful.
But if a stranger with no authorization, no prior permission
from you, no invitation, comes into your home without authorization,
that's a residential entry. That's an unlawful entry into your home.

(19:28):
And what is thirty five dash forty one desk scree
dash to say in Indiana, Again, it's broader than just
the castle doctrine, which is what we're talking about right now,
but it includes this and it says I'm justified, meaning
it's legal for me to use reasonable force, including deadly forced,
to prevent or terminate an unlawful entry into my home.

(19:52):
Says entry or attack on my dwelling. Is kicking my
door in the middle of the night is a law? Yes. Now,
people will talk about whether they're not in your house yet,
And there's this ridiculous lore with conventional wisdom, which is
maybe conventional, but it's certainly not wise that exists out

(20:16):
there that say, well, if they're on the porch, you know,
shoot them and then drag them inside or tell the police, Oh,
they were in my home. They have to be inside
your home, not on the outside. I hear this all
the time. Oh yeah, you shoot someone on your front
porch dragon inside. It's colossally stupid. And I've mentioned this
before on the show for several reasons, because, first of all,
like the CSI, guys aren't going to figure that out

(20:38):
with the blood splatter and the red streak across the
threshold of your door when you drug them inside. I mean,
come on. Secondly, in Indiana anyway, it's unnecessary because you
can prevent an unlawful entry into your home, you reasonably
believe that deadly force is necessary. Necessary is a very

(20:59):
important word in that sentence. In other words, they're trying
to break in. They are currently in the act of
breaking in. Someone's broken your front window. They've got a
foot that's starting to come through the broken front window.
They're clearly attempting to enter your home. They're not in
your home yet, they broke the window, they're starting to

(21:23):
crawl through the window. May you use force, including deadly force,
to prevent their unlawful entry? The self defense Statute in
Indiana clearly says yes. So some idiot kid who's too
stupid to understand the risk he's putting himself into. And
by the way, it's too stupid to understand the colossal

(21:45):
consequences not only to him, but to the people who's
home he's attacking. Kicks in a door, the coursewing the
door swings in, lock breaks, door swings in. Is the
homeowner at that point, Is someone in the home who
lives in that home justified in shooting them in the
face or wherever else they might choose to shoot them?

(22:08):
One hundred percent they are. And I take no satisfaction
in saying that. If you listen to the gun guy show.
You know I talk about force, any use of a
gun being an absolute tool of last resort, and that
the number of people I've represented a dozen people now
who have taken a human life completely legally and justifiably,

(22:29):
and every single one of them will tell you it
was the worst day of their lives and they wish
it never happened. Not a single one of them celebrated,
even people that are celebrated as heroes. And you know,
if you listen to the show who I'm talking about,
who I've represented, and they're true heroes, no question about it.
Saved lives, save multiple lives, and I've represented multiple people
like this. They get really, really uncomfortable when people want

(22:53):
to congratulate them and pat them on the back and
tell them even oh God. The worst part is when
somebody says, man, I wish that would have me if
I'd have been there, boy, I'd have loved been the
one blowing that bad guy away. And every single one
of them will look at you like you're crazy if
you tell him that. To say, you don't understand. I

(23:13):
have to live with the consequences of having taken a
human life. I had to go through a homicide investigation,
and whether justified or not, there will be a homicide investigation.
People want to jump on me saying why did you
have to represent Eli Dickon after the Greenwood Park Mall
shooting that he stopped, heroically put himself in harm's way,

(23:34):
saved countless love, dozens and dozens of lives. He didn't
need a lawyer did Why why did you need to
represent him? Well, he was never charged with a crime
and he was never sued. But if you don't think
it's helpful to have a lawyer who's been through multiple
homicide investigations guide you through that investigation and interact with

(23:56):
police on your behalf, interact with the media on your behalf,
explain to you the process, then you're not particularly smart
if you don't understand the value of that. But my
point is that everyone I've represented who's taken a human
life will absolutely tell you it was the worst day
of their life. And nobody should ever wish that upon anyone.

(24:21):
And as much as I train, I train continuously, I'd
like to say continue oe is probably the more appropriate word.
Not try to take five six seven training classes myself
a year, and I teach many more than that, and
so I want to be prepared. Do I want to
use that to take a human life? Of course not.

(24:42):
And if some kid playing a prank puts me in
the position because you just kicked my door in of
doing what apparently is necessary to save the lives of
my family and protect my family and my home, and
I choose to then shoot them, which I'm legally completely
one hundred percent justified in doing. If he kicks my

(25:02):
door in now, I then again I have to mourn
that loss of life more than anyone else other than
perhaps his immediate family, because I'm the one who did it,
and you put me in that position for a TikTok video?
Are you kidding me? How colossally stupid are you to

(25:23):
put us both in that position? That's why when I
saw this trend, I knew I was going to be
animated and talking about it, animated maybe it isn't even
the most accurate word because of how colossally dumb it is.
So let me tell you, if you know for a
fact your kid is too smart to do anything like

(25:45):
this ridiculous prank, talks to him about it anyway, Please,
if you're one hundred percent, one thousand percent certain your
kid is too smart to do something like this. Talk
to him anyway, and talk to him about talking to
their friends, and let them know that you could easily

(26:06):
lose your life and change multiple lives, your family's life,
the homeowner's life. But to round out this discussion, we
need to take a break. I've got some people who
have called in. They want to discuss this as well.
What are the legalities. Let's say they haven't broken into
my home yet, They're just on my front porch with

(26:29):
an airsoft rifle. But I'm concerned enough about someone on
my porch with an airsoft rifle. I don't because specifically
I don't know it's an air soft rifle. And I
decided to engage them based on them simply being on
my front porch threatening me, attempting to kick the door
in with a rifle in their hands. What happens then,

(26:52):
what's the significance of that being an airsoft rifle and
not a real rightle a real rifle in recros When
the cops arrive and they're investigating that scenario, I was wrong.
There was no real threat to me in terms of
getting shot. How does that affect the legal analysis? We'll

(27:13):
talk about that, and we'll go to the phone lines
when we come back. Right now, we're taking a break.
This is Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy Show on
ninety three WIBC.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
This show about gun rights, gun safety, and responsible gun ownership.
This is the Gun Guy with Guy Ralford on ninety
three WYPC.

Speaker 3 (27:39):
And welcome back. I'll tell you what. Let's take a
call here. We may make this a short segment and
get back on the schedule for a little bit here
since I keep blowing past our brakes. But let's go
to the phone line and Wes has a call. Wes,
Welcome to the Gun Guy Show. Hello, Yes, sir, what
you got So?

Speaker 6 (27:59):
You've been talking about unlawful entry. Yes, I've seen a
lot of YouTube videos where police officers are trying to
prevent people from closing the door or forcing themselves in
without an actual warrant, and I am wondering if that
consists of unlawful entry and what the consequences might be

(28:22):
if something God forsaken.

Speaker 3 (28:24):
Like a so a police officer unlawfully. So let me
make sure I understand your question, Wesson's, because I think
it's a really, really good one. If what happens, what
are you justified in doing if a police officer is
unlawfully entering your home? Correct? Okay, great question, fabulous question.

(28:44):
This law changed dramatically in oh gosh, I want to
say about two thousand and seventeen, maybe eighteen, And this
arose out of a case called Barnes versus State. And
in the Barnes versus State case, Missus Barnes had called

(29:08):
nine one one because she and her husband were fighting,
and she called nine one one. However, the call was
interrupted and apparently someone had taken the phone away from
her and police though had the address. So police show

(29:29):
up to the residents. Mister Barne Barnes is out in
the yard and when the police pull up, he says, hey,
it's okay, guys, it's all great. Uh, we just had
a fight. She's fine, I'm fine. You can go on
about your evening. And the cop said, oh, no, we
need to talk to your wife because she called nine
to one one and the call got interrupted. Mister Barnes said, well,

(29:54):
you're not going to my house without a warrant, and
they said, we don't need a warrant. It's what we
call exigence circlemstances. And I won't give you a whole
tutorial on that, but basically, if police reasonably believe that
someone in a home is in need of immediate assistance,
they can go into that home without a warrant. It's
an exception to the warrant requirement called exigen circumstances. And

(30:15):
there are other exigen circumstances like someone destroying evidence, but
we'll leave that there for now. And mister Barnes said, oh, no,
you know she's not need of any assistant. She didn't
tell you she needed assistance. You're not going to my
house without a warrant. And the cops said, yes, we are,
and so mister Barnes went on in the house. Cops
tried to follow him into the house. The first cop

(30:36):
coming through the door, mister Barnes put his hands on
pushed him back out the door, and he goes to
jail for a battery on a police officer, and it
goes up to the Hada Court of Appeals, and the
whole argument was about whether police officers really needed a
warrant or not. And this goes directly to Wes's question

(30:57):
do they need a wark? Because if they needed a warrant,
they didn't have a warrant and entering the home was unlawful,
and you can prevent an unlawful entry into your home
in this case with reasonable force, which is pushing the
cop back out the door. But the Court of Appeals
opinion focused totally on the warrant requirement. Do they really
need a warn or did they not? They didn't need
a warrant, it was lawful. If they didn't need a

(31:20):
warrant didn't have one, that it was unlawful, and they said, oh,
it was probably lawful because up to the Indiana Supreme Court.
Indiana Supreme Court comes out with a new rule and says,
you know what, even if a police officer is entering
your home unlawfully, you can't use force against them. We're
coming out with a new rule. This isn't in the
self defense statute passed by the legislature. We're ruling this

(31:41):
way as a court, and we want to cut down
on violence against police officers. So you can no longer
put your hands on a police officer, use force against
a police officer, even if they're unlawfully entering your home.
And a lot of people got really upset by that.
The Attorney General's Office at the time who actually just

(32:02):
won the case because they were supporting the conviction, came
back and said, whoa, whoa, whoa, We didn't ask you
to go that far, and asked for a rehearing, and
the Supreme Court had a rehearing. On rehearing, Supreme Court said, no,
we meant what we said. We want to cut down
on violence against police officers. So it doesn't matter if
a copy is even entering your home illegally. You can't

(32:22):
put your hands on a police officer. You can't use
force against a police officer. And if the General Assembly
doesn't like it, they can change the self defense statue.
So guess what the General Assembly did the very next session.
They changed the self defense statue and they added a
whole section of section I thirty five forty one three
two I, and it talks about use of force against

(32:47):
a public servant quote unquote, which is defined as a state, local,
or federal police officer. And it says, you know what,
the rules of self defense self defense do apply against
a police officer. And if a police officer is acting
unlawfully and not fulfilling their official duties, or either one
not acting lawfully or not fulfilling their official duties, and

(33:09):
reasonable force, not deadly force, but reasonable force is necessary
to prevent them from entering your home. In Indiana, that's
now justified. And we have a Court of Appeals decision
called Coupoloh versus State where a DNR officer came to
interrogate a person over a poached deer and he's standing
in the doorway and he's interrogating this Cupolo guy, saying

(33:32):
I think you shot this deer and Coopolo said, well,
I didn't, and and eventually he said, you have a warrant,
and if you don't, get off my porch. And he
went to shut the door and the police officer put
his foot across the door. I said, I'm not done
talking to you. And by putting his foot across the
door without a warrant, that was an unlawful entry. And
you know Coupolo did. He slammed the door on his

(33:53):
guy's foot three times, hurt his foot, broke his foot.
He gets he gets arrested for battery on a police officer.
Indiana Court of Appeal said, no, he didn't have a warrant.
The DNR officer didn't have a warrant when he put
his foot across the threshold of the door. That was
an unlawful entry, and Kupolo was completely justified in doing
what he did. Now, and I've gone way past the

(34:14):
break here, which is not my intent. But what's fascinating
about this is that you are justified if an officer
is acting unlawfully or not involved in their execution of
their official duties to protect your home, to protect agains,
serious bodily injury, and some other scenarios, that you are
justified and using now in Indiana force against a police officer.

(34:36):
Am I advocating that? Is that going to end well
for you? God forbid you use deadly force against a
police officer. Is that going to end well for you? Hell? No,
I'm not advocating this, But read Section thirty five forty
one Desk three Dest two that statute Subsection I, and
I think J and K following that have some of

(34:56):
this too. It is fascinating to know that Indiana, under
some li minute, very limited circumstances, has actually justified the
use of force against police officers who are acting unlawfully.
But please, for goodness sake, don't take that as me
advocating for violence against police officers. Never a good idea,
always a bad idea, and please keep that in mind.

(35:19):
Right now, we've got to take a break, says Guy
Ralford on The Gun Guy Show on ninety three wybcued.

Speaker 1 (35:27):
Now you've got a gun guy, Guy Rail three ninety
three WYBC.

Speaker 3 (35:33):
Well tell you what. We've only got about a minute here,
a little less actually, but if you're on hold, A
couple of people have called in what appear to be
really good questions, and based on what you told producer
Jack when you called, I really want to get to you,
So please have some patience through the break at the
top of the hour, and we'll get to you just
as soon as we come back. I also want to

(35:55):
get into the idea this this TikTok challenge, and I
didn't really mean to spend so much time on it,
but we had great calls in great questions, and I
want to talk about what's the legal ramification of the
fact that they've got an airsoft gun in their hand
and not a real gun. In other words, let's say

(36:16):
you fear for your family safety you kill one of
these kids, what does it mean that they had an
airsoft gun not a real gun. That's an important point
we'll get into when we come back. Right now, we're
taking a break. This is Guy Ralford on The Gun
Guy Show on ninety three WYBC.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of
a free state, the right of the people to keep
in their arms shall not be infringed. This is the
Second Amendment, and this is the Gun Guy a boom
boom boom.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
Boom bang bang bang bang boom boom, boom, boom.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
Bang bang ral on ninety three WYBC.

Speaker 3 (37:04):
Yah, welcome back for our number two The Gun Guys
Show here on ninety three WIBC. I'm thrilled to be
back with you after taking last weekend off due to
a conflict with the IU Oregon game. Although I got
to tell you I was a little selfish. I love
being able to set TV out on the deck and
grill some chicken wings and my wife made some incredible

(37:25):
chili and we had a great afternoon. Watched the Hoosiers
beat the number three team in the country at the
time and launched themselves into that position. Actually a lot
of fun. In fact, I you I see looking at
my phone is leading Michigan State right now thirty five
to ten. In the third quarter, and Miami, who was

(37:47):
the number two team in the country last night, got
beat by Louisville who was like twenty some point underdogs.
So Indiana, if they maintained this lead, actually has a
very respectable chance to actually move to be number two
in the country. Which again, I'm be an IU fan
for a long time, and I'm used to seeing the

(38:08):
Hoosiers going in front of a stadium that's about a
third fall and about empty by halftime and posting records
like you know, two and nine and three and eight,
and all of a sudden they have a chance to
be number two in the country after having made the
Bowl Championship Series playoff last year. That's all just that's

(38:30):
exciting stuff. So neat stuff. Again, I know you don't
dial into the gun guy should have listened to sports updates.
But I'm a big football fan. In my distant youth
through college played the sport, so I can't help rooting
on people, whether it's the Colts or IU that I
root for. But I'll tell you what I promised the

(38:51):
people on hold on the phone that I would go
right to the phone lines after the start of the
second hour here, so Buzz has been hold on. I've
been on hold for and Buzz longtime listener, buddy, frequent caller,
Thanks for calling.

Speaker 7 (39:05):
Good afternoon, Thank you very much.

Speaker 4 (39:10):
I'm going to.

Speaker 8 (39:10):
Try and not draw this out. But the woman that
is my home health aid she had the half apartment
behind our house. We rented both the house and the
half apartment she had. She had a boyfriend ended up

(39:31):
being a bad breakup. He finally admitted that he smashed
himself in the face with an ashtray to make it
look bad, but he got he got the restraining order
and she had to leave the premises because they were
too close together. Now, him and I got into a

(39:54):
big yelling match and he knew he was not welcome
in house ever. Again, what were my legal if something
were to have gone down? Well, I'm not a bad person, but.

Speaker 3 (40:13):
You know, to prevent him from coming vack you.

Speaker 8 (40:15):
Mean yes, to come into my place?

Speaker 3 (40:18):
Yeah, And to make it clear, Well, there are a
couple of components to this, Buzz. And it's a great
question because we're talking about the castle doctrine, and I'm
sure this is where your question comes from. Castle doctrine
includes the ability to justifiably use force, including deadly force,
to prevent an unlawful entry into an attack on your dwelling.
And I was talking about when is an entry into

(40:39):
your dwelling not unlawful, Well, if the person's invited, or
if they have keys, or you know their names on
the lease or whatever it might be. So in this
circumstances where someone might have had the ability and the
authorization to come into your home, when you're part of
the of a home that you own at one time

(41:00):
no longer does, first thing you need to do is
document that you can do that with an eviction notice,
Serve that on them, keep a copy, have it served
by certified mail, or have it served by a civil
service process agent, but have a legal record, have proof
that you served on them that they're no longer allowed

(41:22):
to be in the premises that they're either evicted. You
can get your own order or protection, and there are
domestic violence orders of protection, but there are other restraining
orders that are available that you can potentially get to
say you're no longer allowed on these promises, on these premises,
and have that served on them and have a legal
record of that. But you want to make sure that

(41:44):
the person is very clear they don't have the legal
right to be there. Thereafter, if they come back, you know, again,
changing the locks imperative. If they have a key that
they've gotten at a time when they were authorized to
be there, you want to change the locks and and
tell them the locks have changed. You're not authorized to
be here. You're specifically excluded from the premises. And make

(42:06):
sure that's clear. Now they come back, Now it's clear
that one, they're violating an order of protection if you
have one, there are a restraining order, they're violating their eviction. Notice,
they're they're there illegally, and if they try to break
in at some point, then you're protected in terms of
the need to protect your home and and and and

(42:27):
and using the terms of the castle doctrine as the justification.
Now again, you're you know what I'm going to say here.
If you listen to the Gun Guy Show, do you
want to avoid that at all costs? Absolutely? You know,
just before the break and I feel bad that I
gave it a little disservice. We're talking about justifiable use
of a force against a police officer. My goodness, I

(42:48):
will go a long way, even if it's the middle
of the night and I hear police and my door
explodes and police come tearing in and listen, there's no
justifiable legal reason why police would be raiding my home.
I don't have a meth lab in the basement. I mean,
there's just no reason. And so I can meet said, well,
the cops are in my house illegally. Am I going

(43:09):
to pick up the suppressed SBR that's next to my
bed and start killing police officers? Absolutely? One hundred percent, No,
no one, Because what if they're just in the wrong
home because somebody screwed up the address on a search
warrant or an arrest warrant. Do I want to have
it on my conscience that I killed innocent police officers
who who Yes, they were illegally in my home, but

(43:31):
they didn't know it, they were offering, they were operating
under a simple mistake. Secondly, even if potentially I'm right
and there they are acting unlawfully, Let's say ATF just
decides they hate me because I'm a Second Amendment lawyer
and they know I have a bunch of NFA items.
I said, They're gonna come kicking my door and seize

(43:51):
my items just to come hassle me. Now, do I
think that would ever happen. No, on ATF's worst day,
I can't imagine them doing that, especially to a Second
Amendment attorney. But ATF's done some really rotten, ridiculous things.
I know because I've had to represent clients because of that.
But let's say they did and it is unlawed. Do
I still want to pick up my gun and start

(44:13):
killing law enforcement officers. No, I don't want to do it,
not if I can avoid it. I will sue their
ass later on, I will win in court. I'll do
what I need to do. I don't want to take
human lives. And I also do want to put myself
in the position because when police officers raide your home,
they very rarely do it by themselves. In fact, they
never do it by themselves. So it's you against who

(44:35):
knows how many police officers just came into your home.
I don't want the police officers to get hurt. I
don't want to get hurt. I don't want my family
to get hurt. I'm going to let things play out
and then handle it through the judicial system. I don't
want to hurt anyone. I don't want to get hurt.
If that sounds whimpy to you, I don't care. That's
how I'm going to approach that issue. But the same

(44:58):
thing is, if you know, as you've had a bad
breakup with a tenant, or you know, in this case,
what a boyfriend of someone who was authorized to be there,
I'd want to do everything I can to make it
clear to them they're not illegally allowed to be there
and have it all resolved something way short of having
to resort to deadly forced Now, if they're just a jerk,

(45:19):
they don't care about what the loss is, they don't
care about being evicted, they don't care about a protective order,
and they want to come start kicking doors in all right.
That's why we have a castle doctrine. That's about when
they get shot, and the castle doctrine, as long as
it's very clear that they're not authorized to be there
and that's an unlawful entry into your home, says that's
completely lawful. I'll tell you what. Before we take a break,

(45:43):
let's go back to the phone lines, and we also
have Larry's that's been on hold forever. Larry also, thank
you for your patience.

Speaker 4 (45:49):
Bro Oh, you're welcome. I have a question that kind
of goes along those these same lines. I've got ring
camera at a spotlight on my drive, I perked my
truck out there, and I've also got a ring camera doorbell.
What if at three am in the morning, I hear
prompt that somebody's in my spotlight camera and they're breaking

(46:14):
into my truck or they're getting ready to steal my truck?

Speaker 3 (46:17):
Yep?

Speaker 4 (46:17):
What if I woke up and I slip out the
back door with my shotgun? What can I actually do
to stop somebody from doing that? Can I throw a
shot off in the air legally, or can I shoot
a shot into the ground or just something to let
them know that I'm there, and then I'm going to

(46:38):
stop them from stealing my truck or breaking into it.

Speaker 3 (46:40):
Yeah, Larry, and thank you for your patience. And I'm
really glad you called. I'm really glad you asked that
question because listen, let me let me tell you I've
had this case. This is exactly precisely what you're describing.
Someone sees on a security camera or a ring doorbell
someone's breaking into their vehicle. It's out. I just had
one here recently down in Bartholomew County that where my

(47:06):
client got charged, and and here's what happens here and
here here how the rules of law apply. First of all,
you can never use deadly force merely to protect your
property like your truck. Now, not talking about your home.
That's castle doctrine, that's the other end of the spectrum.
But your truck, your vehicle, is just your personal property.

(47:29):
And you can never use deadly force merely to defend
your car. So if there's if there's a guy in
the parking garage here at WYBC right now, steal in
my car and listen, I love my car. I've had
my car for a long time, up a lot of
time and effort into it. It's the best car I've
ever had. I really don't want anybody to ever take
my car. But if I happen to be walking out
there as somebody is pulling out of my parking spot

(47:51):
because they're stealing my car, can I use deadly force
against them? Absolutely not. Now people always want to come
in there and say, what what if they're trying to
run you over? Is there leaving, or what if they
brandish a firearm? I'm not talking about that. I'm just
just stealing your truck. Just stealing your vehicles, just stealing
my car. I cannot use deadly forced merely protect my car,
my property, my personal property, now my home, my property. Okay,

(48:16):
so that's rule number one. You talk about warning shots,
fire around into the air, around into the ground. I've
had this case. I've had this exact case multiple times.
And if that round now a shotgun into the dirt,
you know, is that high risk? Into the air, is
that high risk whatever kind of gun it is, shooting

(48:38):
it into the air, shooting it into the ground. Multiple
times now, I've had cases where somebody filed fired a
warning shot. And one is exactly what you're talking about.
He saw on his security camera somebody was stealing his
truck or breaking into his truck. He walked out there
with his gun, walked up and said, dude, get away
from my car. And the person looked at him and

(49:01):
took a step toward him, clearly not intimidated, took a
step toward him. So my client fired a round off
into the ground with a handgun. Guy runs away. My
client called police. Again. This is Bartholomew County cases long over.

(49:21):
Now I talk a little bit about it without naming names.
My client called nine one one and said, guy was
just trying to steal my truck. He's still in the
neighborhood somewhere, and you guys need to come find him,
dig get any kind of a response. Eventually chased down,
a cop got his attention, said that guy was just
trying to steal my truck. He's in my neighborhood. Tells
the story of how he fired a warning shot into

(49:43):
the ground. Guess who got prosecuted. My client did for
criminal recklessness with a deadly weapon because they said, well,
you're in a residential neighborhood and firing off a shot,
even into the ground can ricochet ended up in somebody's house.
I've had warning shot cases where somebody fired around in
the air and cop said, when the prosecutor said, well

(50:08):
that round has to come down somewhere, you just endangered
the people in your neighborhood. That's criminal recklessness with a
deadly weapon as a felony. So listen. I don't like this,
and no one listening is going to like it. But
if someone is just messing with my personal property, like
my vehicle outside my home, I'm calling nine to one one.

(50:29):
I'm reporting what's going on. If I can video this
or recording the video off my ring doorbell, security cameras,
whatever it is, I'm going to do that. Am I
going outside with my firearm? No? Now you're thinking, well, God,
why do I have guns if I'm gonna sit there
and watch a video while somebody's stealing my car? Are
you kidding me?

Speaker 4 (50:46):
Well?

Speaker 3 (50:47):
Who's this wimp I'm listening to on the radio. I
get it. But you can't shoot them and you can't
fire warning shots. Why are you going outside? Why are
you leaving the protection of your home, where you have cover,
where you have protection for you and your family by
going outside with a firearm and police, don't take this

(51:08):
as any criticism on you based on your question, because
I don't mean it that way. I'm just talking across
the board. You want to stay in your home. You
want to prepare if they now they want to come
try to make entry into your home. Now you're prepared.
Now you can use deadly force. But I'm calling nine
to one one. I'm being a good witness. I'm not
going out there with my gun if I know I

(51:28):
can't shoot them for just trying to steal my car.
But they see me with a gun, what if they
now pull a gun and shoot me, I'm sitting there
thinking the back of my head, Okay, now, I'm just
gonna try to bluff them. I'm just gonna intimidate them.
I'm just gonna try them to stop trying to steal
my truck, my car with this firearm. But I know
I'm not gonna I'm not justified in shooting them. But
by walking out there and intending to bluff them with

(51:50):
my gun, they now see me with a gun, turn around,
shoot me. Well, I'm hesitating, going, wow, I can't shoot
this guy, or else I go to jail. They don't
have the same problem. They're a criminal. If they pull
their gun, shoot me in the head, bad outcome. So again,
nobody likes it. I talked about this in my gun
law class today and people look at me like, WHOA,
I'm not so sure. I'm as excited about being a

(52:12):
gun owner anymore. If I can't walk out and stop
somebody from stealing my car, that's how the law operates.
And that's the advice I have to give. Great question,
and that applies to so many people, so many hypotheticals
that people have. That question came up, Like I said,
in my class today, and I'm really glad you called
and asked that question. We're taking a break. We'll go
back to the phone lines. If we have any additional caller.

(52:32):
I'll wrap up the discussion on this ridiculous TikTok post.
There are a lot of other things I actually wanted
to get into here on the Gun Guy Show. Thanks
so much, join the discussion. We've had great callers, great questions.
Three one seven two three nine ninety three ninety three,
three one seven two three nine ninety three ninety three.
This is Guy Rylford on The Gun Guy Show on

(52:52):
ninety three WIBC.

Speaker 1 (53:01):
Your rights, it's your responsibilities, your guns. This is the
Gun Guy with Guy Ralford on WYVC.

Speaker 3 (53:11):
And welcome back. I'm Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy
Show on ninety three WIBC, and I want to talk
a little bit, and we've had a couple more callers
call in. I'll go to the phone lines here again
in a minute, but I'm going to finish the point
that I didn't quite get to, which is this this prank,
this TikTok prank apparently where teenagers are are walking up

(53:33):
onto people's porches and again the stupidity. This is just
so mind boggling to me, it's beyond my mind boggling.
It Actually it hurts my heart to think of kids
being this stupid, to think that this is something that
they're likely to get away with, or that the humor,

(53:54):
whatever humor, is associated with this, And I personally don't
see any but whatever charge they get out of doing
this and posted on TikTok to get the I don't know,
admiration of their friends or likes or clicks or follows
or whatever the hell that is, I don't know. I
don't have TikTok, I never will. But the stupidity of

(54:15):
this just boggles my mind to the point where it
literally it hurts my heart because people are gonna die
if this thing continues. It's it's unavoidable. You kick people's
door in with an airsoft rifle in your hand, and
you don't need an air an air soft rifle or
any other rifle or any other weapon in your hand.

(54:37):
It's not necessary for someone to be justified in shooting
you if you're empty handed, got nothing, no apparent weapon.
I'll walk up to someone's door and kick it in
the middle of the night. That is an unlawful entry
into someone's home, and they are justified. In Indiana, they
are justified in using deadly forced to prevent or terminate

(54:59):
that on lawful entry. If you're kicking on the door
and you haven't even made it in yet, the word
prevent is in the statue. I can prevent an unlawful
entry if I reasonably believe it's necessary. So if somebody
just kicks on my door and is otherwise standing around

(55:20):
on the porch, can I just shoot up? No, They're
kicking on my door enough to now it looks like
the hines are going to give. The lock's going to give,
the dead bolts gonna give. It looks like the s
that can in fact make it into my home. Can
I prevent an unlawful entry with deadly forced? Yes, that's
the way the statute is written in Indiana. So and and

(55:40):
and and the weapon is a real that's what makes
the castle doctrinedifferent. And that's the point I made in
my class today. And I always want to educate people
on is you can simply defend your castle against an
unlawful entry or attack, and and and you don't need
to fear injury. You don't need to fear death. The
person doesn't have to be armed. Someone empty handed who
makes your door in let's say they do, they're successful,

(56:02):
they kick your door in. The lock gives way. They
kick your door in the door slams. Indoors are standing
there completely empty handed. Can you use deadly force against them?
In Indiana? The answer is yes, justifiably. And you know what,
as far out of my way as I will go
to prevent taking a life, and I will go a

(56:23):
long damn way for reasons I've discussed right here on
the show. I don't want to take that. I don't
want to take a human life. I don't want to
live with that. And if it turns out afterwards that
it was some kid and at doing a TikTok prank,
I'm angry at that point. I'm I'm devastated, I'm heartbroken.

(56:44):
I'm also angry that they put me in that position,
and it even makes me angry hypothetically just that there
are people out there that are going to be put
in this position by this ridiculous prank. But let's just
let's talk about the airsoft gun for just a minute,
and let's let's take it out the context of the
castle doctrine, because this is the point I want to
make on how the law of self defense works certainly

(57:08):
here in Indiana, which is the limit of my discussion.
Let's say you're not in your home, so castle doctrine
doesn't apply. Let's say you're walking down the street in
downtown Indianapolis. And this is a hypothetical I use in
my class all the time, my Essentials of Indiana Gun Law,
when we're talking about self defense. And let's say we're
walking past an alley. It's my wife and I. I'm

(57:31):
walking past a dark alley. And if you've taken my
gun law class, you're nodding right now because you've heard
me go down this road before. But I hear from
the depths of this alley, which is a dark alley.
It's back lit, so I can see some silhouettes. But
I hear someone say I'm going to kill you. And

(57:54):
I look down the alley and I see three figures
running at me. They're backlits, so all I can see
is silhouettes. But I see three people running at me,
and they all have the unmistakable outline of a handgun
in their hand, and they're running toward me. After I
just heard I'm going to kill you, and I take
a moment to process this. Ever you ever heard the

(58:17):
term ooda loop. Talk about that in self defense all
the time, that when you're you see a potential life
threatening situation, you first need to observe it. That's the
first O and UDA. You observe it, then you need
to orient, understand what's going on, and they decide what
to do, and then you need to act. That's UDA
developed by fighter pilots actually during Vietnam, a really interesting story.

(58:40):
Look that up, google uda OO da UDA loop and
the and and the idea is that whoever gets through
their UDA loop the fastest is typically going to win
in a violent confrontation. And a big part of that
is orienting. You first have to observe. By the way,
if you get your face in your phone, we're staring
at your feet, we're checking out the cloud, animals. Then

(59:00):
you're not going to observe what's around you. That's what
we call situational awareness. But you have to observe what's
going on. Then you have to orient and understand what's
going on and then decide what to do and then
do it. And whoever gets through that the fastest typically
wins the confrontation. So I observe what's going on. I
orient to it. They're running up the alley toward me

(59:20):
and my wife. I just heard I'm going to kill you,
and they each have a gun in their hand. Again,
I can't see colors, I can't see detail. They're all
backlit and they're solhouettes. I see, you know what, three
people running at me with guns in their hand. I
just heard I'm going to kill you. I take my
gun out and I start shooting. Called nine one one,

(59:41):
and we talk about nine one one calls that's a
whole another show. And what you say to responding police,
that's a whole another show. But I call police, Police arrive,
the police investigate. Turns out there were three kids playing
with squirt guns in the alley. One of the kids
had sprayed another kid in the face with a square gun.
He said I'm going to kill you, and was just

(01:00:02):
chasing him up the alley, discording him with his shotgun.
They never even saw me. There was no risk to me,
but I wounded one of them and killed two. Am
I going to prison at that point and the point
of that hypothetical and again I can't imagine a worse scenario.
I can't imagine living with having taken two innocent lives

(01:00:25):
and heart another young person who were just playing in
an alley with quirt guns and in the personal torment
anguish that you'd live with. I would that would be
close to when bearable to me. But that's a separate
question from me, am I going to prison. And the
way the law of self defense works, certainly here in Indiana,

(01:00:47):
is that I don't have to be right. I have
to have a reasonable belief, and outside the home, under
the general self Defense Statute, I have to have a
reasonable belief that I'm preventing seria is bodily injury to
me or a third person, or preventing the commission of
a forcible felony. A forcible felony is a felony committed

(01:01:09):
through the use or threat of force, or in which
there's a substantial risk of injury to a human being.
So stealing my cars not a forcible felony, is just
a felony carjacking. Who someone walks up to my window
with a tire iron or a gun or a knife
and says get out of the car. I'm taking your gun.
That's a forcible felony, so I have to have a

(01:01:33):
reasonable belief. So when I heard I'm going to kill you,
and I saw three figures who were just backlit, I
can't see figures, I can't see colors. I can just
see outlines, and they're running toward me. After I just
heard I'm going to kill you, and I take my
gun out and start shooting. Did I have a reasonable
belief that in fact turned out to be wrong. But

(01:01:56):
I had a reasonable belief under the circumstances that I
was defending my wife and myself from serious bodily injury
or the commission of a forceable felony, which was murder
or armed robbery or whatever I think they're going to do.
The point of this discussion is that I can be
wrong in terms of the actual threat, but still be

(01:02:18):
justified knowing that kids running around doing pranks with things
like airsoft rifles that look like real rifles gets real
damn scary because it gives them no protection to the
extent that someone reasonably believes that's a real gun. Even
assuming carrying a gun's relevant, which in a pure castle

(01:02:42):
doctrine situation, it's not somebody kicks on my door in
I can defend myself. But where they're put in where
they're now going the next step and incorporating a gun
into it that looks like a real gun. Now you're
creating that reasonable belief on a homeowner's part, and you're
greatly exacerbating the potential of getting shot in the head

(01:03:05):
or wherever else you might get shot. And that's so
scary to me. It angers me. It angers me that
a kid's going to lose his life and or a
homeowner is going to go through the anguish of having
killed a kid who's just too incredibly stupid to understand.
This is a risky prank that is not worth anywhere close,
not within an order, not within ten orders of magnitude.

(01:03:27):
Is it worth the risk? And with that, I'll tell
you what I've blown past the potom of the hour.
We've got four people on hold the rest of the show.
I'm going to try to get through our callers. I
had a couple other things I want to talk about,
you know what. They'll hold till next week. Let's see
if we can get through the rest of the callers
when we come back. This is Guy Ralford on the
gun Guy Show on ninety three WYBC.

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
Second to none on the second and then this is
the Gun Guy We've got Hi Ralph WYPC.

Speaker 3 (01:04:03):
And welcome back. I'll tell you what. We're going to
go to the phone lines and I've got a bunch
of callers with not much time, so please be short
and succinct. I'm going to try to get to everybody
here before we wrap up this show. And Brad is
called Brad, Welcome to the Gun Guy Show. Hello, sir,
great great show, Thanks about it. Curious just curious about expungement.

(01:04:24):
A guy called in a couple of weeks ago, and
you said that particular crime couldn't be exposed. So my
question is federal or state could letters to a governor
or president and a pardon actually override that possibility. Yes,
a pardon from the governor or a presidential pardon at

(01:04:44):
the federal level can absolutely restore gun rights. So a man,
it says right in the federal statute, and this applies
in Indiana as well. A governmental pardon, for instance, for
a state law conviction here Indiana restore gun rights. Bruce
has called in, Bruce, Welcome to the Gun Guys Show.

Speaker 9 (01:05:06):
Hey guy, long time list first time caller, Thank you, brother,
love your show man.

Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
Thanks you.

Speaker 9 (01:05:11):
I listen to you about every time you're on. But listen.
The question I had was, you made a statement earlier
about something about somebody stealing your vehicle. So if you
walk out to your vehicle and you see the people's
got guns, you go in your house get your guns.
The person points are gun at you, and you don't
you shoot them?

Speaker 3 (01:05:32):
Oh no, I mean listen, if what I said is
somebody just stealing your car, you can't protect your car
your personal property with deadly force. So so so that
was my only point. But hey, if I go out
there because they're stealing my car and then they point

(01:05:53):
my gun at me, their point their gun at me,
can I either defend myself? Oh one hundred percent, brother,
because because then let's say you go out there, somebody
stealing your car, points a gun at you and says, hey,
back off, I'm taking your damn car. But with pointing
a gun at my head, Now I turn around and
shoot them when the cops show up and when I

(01:06:14):
eventually make my statement, right because now, first I'm going
to say, hey, hey, I want to have my lawyer
president and I want to be able to calm down
before I make a statement. When I eventually make a statement,
why am I going to tell them I shot that person?
Assuming I eventually make a statement, Am I going to
say because they were stealing my car? No, he'll no.
What am I going to say? I shot them because
they pointed their gun at me and I feared they

(01:06:36):
were about to end my life and that's the reason
I shot them. So that's a completely different scenario than
just stealing my car. Does that answer your question? Brother?

Speaker 9 (01:06:46):
That's it, man. I was just wanting to make sure
that was clear because oh yea, I'm trying to really
I was getting a couple of extra statements that you made,
and then I was like, I don't think he's saying
that right.

Speaker 3 (01:06:57):
No, No, you know.

Speaker 9 (01:06:58):
I could have mis understood what you were saying.

Speaker 3 (01:07:00):
No, you know what and if what I said was confusing, Bruce,
and I'm glad you called and allowed me to clarify it,
I'll tell you what We've let's take a break here.
At the three quarter hour, I come back and I've
got Jack, Jack and Casey still on hold. I'll go
right back to the phone lines here and get you
guys on the air before the show ends tonight. Right now,

(01:07:21):
we're taking a break. This is this guy Ralford on
The Gun Guy Show on ninety three WIBC.

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
He's a Second Amendment attorney, he's an NRA certified firearms instructor.
He's the Gun Guy Guy Ralford on ninety three WYPC.

Speaker 3 (01:07:40):
And welcome back for our last segment here of the
Gun Guys Show here tonight. Thanks so much, not only
to our listeners but to our callers. We've had fabulous
callers and in that respect, let's go right back to
the phone lines. And Jack has called Jack. Welcome to
the Gun Guy Show.

Speaker 7 (01:07:55):
Yeah, thanks guy. Several weeks ago you reported on a
guy from Indiana who was traveling into Ohio, Oh Yeah
County and was arrested. Is there any follow up on
that on what ever happened? Did they you know, are
they going forward with the with the case on that
or have they given up on it?

Speaker 3 (01:08:15):
You know, Jacket's a fabulous question. And I've not kept
apprized of exactly what the legal status of that case is.
And for people who who don't know what we're talking about,
and I got a lot of social media inquiries about
this There was a gentleman who lives in Indiana and

(01:08:38):
he was traveling in Ohio and got pulled over in Ohio.
And he has an Indiana licensed to carry handgun, and
he had a loaded handgun in his vehicle. And this
was in ah was it Toledo now getting in the

(01:09:00):
town and that's terrible. It's a sign of my old age.
But it was in a particular jurisdiction in Ohio. He
got pulled over. He disclosed to the police officer, because
there is a duty to disclose in Ohio. He disclosed
to the police officer that he had a gun in
the car. But he said, not to worry, I have
an Indiana license to carry. And he knew as you

(01:09:24):
and I know that Ohio does recognize the Indiana license
to carry. But this particular police officer and apparently contacted
local prosecutor. They looked at it and said, well, hold on, Yes,
Indiana recognizes the Indiana license. But there's a separate Ohio
statute that says you cannot have a loaded gun accessible

(01:09:47):
to you in the passenger compartment of the vehicle. And
the exception to that is if you have a concealed
carry permit and it just says concealed carry permit in
the state. And they said, well, concealed carry permit means
the Ohio concealed carry permit and the Indiana license to

(01:10:08):
carry doesn't qualify. So even though we recognize the Indiana license,
because they didn't have an Ohio license or concealed carry permit,
we're going to still prosecute him for a felony. And
a person was being prosecuted. He had hired a defense
attorney who was also an Ohio legislator, and they're talking
about proposing legislation to fix this. They were talking about

(01:10:30):
getting the governor involved. But it's a great question, Jack
and I will go back and I will find out
the status of that. I'll report on that next show.
If I'm not I'm not at it yet next week,
give me a call. And we need to do that
because again, it's not the whole state of Ohio. It's
one particular prosecutor and limited number of law enforcement in
a particularly liberal jurisdiction in Ohio. They're trying to put

(01:10:51):
this guy in prison. But I put this guy. I
put that issue out there because of how important that is,
because I mean, it's a it's kind of a a
cheap shot to for a state to say yes, we
recognize your license and then still turn around and prosecute
somebody who has an Indiana license who has a gun
in their vehicle in Ohio. And I'll tell you what

(01:11:12):
real quick, we've got less than a minute, let's go
to Casey. Casey, can you get your question in quickly?

Speaker 5 (01:11:18):
Yeah, if somebody's trying to kick in your front door,
can you shoot them through the door?

Speaker 3 (01:11:22):
Yeah, well you can prevent That is a concise, quick question, brother,
and thanks for asking it that way. The statue in
Indiana Castle Doctrine Statute says you can use reasonable force,
including deadly force, to prevent an unlawful entry into your home.
You have to believe that it's necessary keyword, to prevent

(01:11:43):
an unlawful entry into your home. So if somebody's kicking
in your door and you can say, hey, yeah, if
I allow them to continue kicking my door, then they
would have been able to break my door down and
enter my home unlawfully. Then yes, to the extent that
you reasonably believe it was necessary to prevent an unlawful
entry into your home, you can shoot them through the door. Now,

(01:12:05):
me personally, I will never do that. The hinges are
going to have to be about to give the you know,
the door is going to have to swing open, because
I'm going to avoid that if I possibly can't. But
that's the way the law is written. And thanks so
much to everybody who called, everybody who listened. This is
Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy Show on ninety three WIBC.