The Gun Guy - Full Show - 10/25/2025

The Gun Guy - Full Show - 10/25/2025

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of
a free state, the right of the people to keep
in their arms shall not be infringed. This is the
Second Amendment, and this is the Gun Guy.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Boom boom boom boom bang bang bang bang boom boom
boom boom bang bang.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Bo Guy Ralford on ninety three WYBC.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
And good afternoon. I'm welcome to the Gun Guy Show
here on ninety three WYDC with thrill that you're with us.
I hope you're enjoying your weekend so far. Dam I'm really
excited about today's show coming up at five point thirty.
I'm going to have a guest that I'm really fascinated
to talk to. And his name is Barry Todd. And

(00:52):
Barry Todd was involved in a real self defense shooting
where he was literally defending his life life in Uma,
Arizona in twenty fourteen. And you know, doing what I

(01:13):
do for a living, that is defending self defense cases
for real clients in real courtrooms. You know, one thing
I see, whether it's on social media or in the
general media or wherever it might be, that people have
sort of a romanticized view of self defense shootings and

(01:37):
a lot of times I think an unrealistic view of
what it really means if you get caught up in
a self defense scenario where you're called upon necessarily to
defend yourself or defend someone else, including with deadly force.
And the reason I spend so much time talking about

(01:58):
the reason I spend so much time teaching that area
of the law just we could go Today, I was
out at Parabellum Firearms out in Avon, and in a
five hour course, we spent a good two hours of
it talking about the law of self defense and when
you're actually allowed under Indiana law and Barry Todd's situation

(02:19):
happened in Arizona, and there are certainly differences, and there
are certainly similarities between Indiana and Arizona law, but a
tremendous overlap. But in the meantime, the reason I spend
so much time talking about that is that, and I
always praise it this way in my courses. The way
that self defense works, the way that the justifiable and

(02:43):
legal use of force and self defense or defense of
a third person, the way that actually works is it
takes an act. And this is exactly the way I
start this discussion in my courses. The law of self
defense takes an act, and it could be something like
punching someone in the face. It could be as significant

(03:07):
as intentionally killing a person. I mean, what's the intentional
killing of a human being? That's murder. That's how Indiana
defines murder. It's the intentional killing of a human being.
If someone kicks on my door in the middle of
the night, and they walked through the broken door with

(03:29):
a sawd off shotgun in their hands, and I point
my pistol at his chest and pull the trigger four
times and he dies, was that the intentional killing of
a human being? Well, of course, I pointed my gun
loaded with competent self defense ammunition, at center mass center

(03:50):
of his chest, and I pulled the trigger four times.
Any reasonable person would expect that person to die under
that circumstance. That was the intentional killing of a human being.
That's the definition of murder. So why don't I go
to prison for murder? Because the law of self defense
says in certain scenarios, in certain situations, if you meet
certain tests, then what would otherwise be a criminal act,

(04:12):
including the most severe of criminal acts, murder, for which
you can get life in prison, or that, under some circumstances,
the death penalty, and certainly forty to fifty sixty years
in prison. Here in Indiana, it takes that same act,

(04:34):
the intentional killing a human being, and says, no, that's
legal and it's justified, and you go home and sleep
in your own bed that night. And that all depends
on which side of that self defense line you're on.
Are you on the line that says yes, under that
particular set of circumstances, you are legal and justified in

(04:58):
intentionally killing a human being. And if you just fall
on the other side of that line where you're not justified,
now you're guilty of a very serious crime that can
be murder, can be aggravated battery, could be attempted murder
if the person doesn't die, and any number of other
serious crimes, including reckless homicide, criminal recklessness of the deadly weapon.

(05:23):
It goes on from there, and Barry Todd, gentleman that's
gonna join us at five point thirty, was involved in
a situation where he had every reason to believe that
what he did was absolutely justified in self defense under

(05:44):
Arizona law, and in the context that we're going to
discuss that issue. Arizona law is very very similar to
Indiana law. Yet he was still prosecuted. He was still prosecuted,
He was still pursued in a way that very nearly
cost him his not only his freedom to the extent

(06:06):
he could go to jail for many, many many years,
cost him his business which he had built from the
ground up, and it still cost him six figures. It
still cost him literally hundreds of thousands of dollars, all
because a prosecutor contended that he was on the wrong
side of that law under Arizona law in terms of

(06:29):
whether what he did was justified or not. And that's
what I do for a living. I have pending cases
right now. I have a murder case pending right now,
and I absolutely will not discuss any specifics on the radio.
But my client's accused him murder and our claim absolutely positively,

(06:51):
without question, his self defense. My client was actually shot
during a struggle. Prosecution says, no, it's not justified self defense,
and whether it's self defense or not, because there's not
really much dispute over what happened except whether my client

(07:13):
was justified in doing what he did. And again, that's
why I'm fascinating and having mister Todd, Barry Todd on
the show. He's going to join us at five thirty,
but I'm gonna spend quite a bit of time on
the show because we are anticipating that call, and I
think what will be a very interesting interview. I'm gonna

(07:37):
spend quite a bit of time talking about the law
of self defense and how exactly the law of self
defense works. I'm going to focus around Indiana law, and
then we'll talk about how that varies from state to state.
Mister Todd wrote a book, and I read his book.

(07:57):
He was nice enough to send me a copy. Publicist
actually did send me a copy. In his book is
called standrew Ground, One Man's Self Defense Nightmare. It's got
some really good artwork. I'll tell you right now. I
commend whoever designed this cover because it has us the

(08:20):
Lady Justice statue, and you've seen this a million times
around courtrooms and other places. It's a lady kind of
looks like the Statue of Liberty, except she's holding up
a set of scales and she's got a blindfold on
the idea that justice is blind, but as sort of
a silhouette, almost a shadow behind her, and you can

(08:42):
look us up the books for sale on Amazon. I've
read it for somebody who's interested in self defense and
Standard Ground laws in particular. Is absolutely fascinating to me.
But it's sort of a silhouette, almost a shadow behind
Lady Justice on this cover is something that looks unmistakably

(09:03):
like the shadow of death. And it really is good
art in the sense that it communicates exactly what it's
intended to, which is that if justice gets mischaracterized, if
justice gets misapplied, then that can turn into something much
much darker and much much more sinister. And that's exactly

(09:23):
what this artwork on the cover of Standard Ground One
Man's Self Defense Nightmare portrays and incredibly well, So we'll
talk more about that when we come back. Right now,
we're taking a break, but I'm really interested in this,
and I really want to take your calls and get

(09:43):
your questions and comments about the law of self defense,
exactly how self defense works. A lot of people have
a lot of it very profound misunderstandings about the law
of self defense. And I see these things on social
media all the time. For instance, I see p will say, well,
all I have to do is say I feared from
my life, and that just allows me to do whatever

(10:05):
I want to do, whether it's shoot someone or stab
someone or run over them with a car or whatever
it might be. Well, I feared for my life, Aha,
some magic wand that protects me. No, that's not how
it works. That's not how any of this works. But
we'll talk more about that and get into the specifics

(10:25):
of mister Todd's situation. Right now, we're taking a break.
We want to invite your calls, as we always do
here on the Gun Guy Show. Give us a call
three one seven two three nine ninety three ninety three.
Want the focus here to be, at least on the
first part of the show, the law of self defense,
house self defense actually operates, and what really gun owners?

(10:46):
If you have a gun on the nightstand, you have
a shotgun next to the bed. Certainly if you carry
a gun, have a gun in your vehicle, or any
other means of deadly force in your vehicle, even is
a means of deadly force. What you really need to
know about the law of self defense. That's why I
teach the classes that I do, That's why I discuss
it so much here on the Gun Guy Show. But
we'll talk more a lot about that here throughout the show.

(11:09):
Give us a call. Three one seven nine ninety three
ninety three. Three one seven two three nine ninety three
ninety three, says Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy Show
on ninety three WYBC.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
Second to none on this second amendment. This is the
Gun Guy with Guy Ralford on ninety three WYBC.

Speaker 3 (11:41):
Man, Welcome back on Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy
Show on ninety three WIBC. We're talking about the law
of self defense, how self defense cases actually work. And
as I mentioned before the break, the fundamental concept when
people need to get their heads around is that the

(12:01):
law self defense takes an act, which can include shooting
someone killing someone. I mean, how important, how profound, how
life changing can those type of events be. But it
takes that kind of an event depending on whether you're
on the side of lawful justification or you're not. That

(12:25):
can literally make the difference between whether you go spend
sixty years in prison or whether you're not guilty of
any crime and you go home, as I said, and
sleep in your own bed. And that's why it's so
incredibly important. An awful lot of people I think just
from reading a lot of posts. I mean, I'm on

(12:47):
a lot of the gun related firearms related, defense related
pages or networks platforms, and I think there are a
lot of miss understandings about how that law really works.
And I represent clients. I don't think any currently, but

(13:07):
I've certainly represented clients over my forty three years a
self defense attorney forty two I guess soon to be
forty three where people got caught up in the legal
system in part because they had a real misunderstanding of
how the self defense works or how the justice system

(13:30):
works in that context. And that's why I'm again excited
about the show. So, first of all, in Indiana, if
we're talking about the use of a gun, and again,
even though we're going to talk about a specific case
that unfolded in Arizona, there are just tremendous overlaps from
everything I've read, including mister Barry Todd's book in its entirety,

(13:56):
there are a lot of overlaps. First of all, if
there's a gun involved, you know, Indiana has a case
that says that merely pointing a loaded gun at someone
creates a substantial risk of serious bodily injury. Do you
know what creating a substantial risk of serious bodily injury is?

(14:20):
That's the definition of deadly force. So there's a Court
of Appeals decision if you want to look it up.
It's called nance versus State an antz, And the Court
of Appeals in Indiana said, well, yeah, I'm pointing a
loaded gun on someone creates a substantial risk of serious
bodily injury. So if you're going to even point a
gun at someone, much less pull the trigger, you have

(14:41):
to be justified in the use of deadly force. Well,
how many people carrying guns in Indiana? And this is
not a criticism, it's just a rhetorical question. How many
people in Indiana who carry guns, have a gun in
the car, have a gun on the night stand next
to their bed. Don't know when exactly it is that

(15:03):
they're justified in the use of deadly force, especially in
a state where the law is the current state of
the law is even pointing your gun at someone in
order to be legal means you must be justified in
the use of deadly force unless you're a police officer
within the legal performance of your official responsibilities. So you're

(15:25):
someone like me, and most of you who are not
a cop. We got to know when we can pull
the gun out of the whole store. We got to
know when we can point it at someone, and we
certainly need to know when we can pull the trigger.
And how many people do well. Again, that's why I
teach my class. That's why you hear me plugging the
class here so consistently, and it's something that I know
there's a profound need for in Indiana. Let me answer

(15:51):
the question here a little bit. There are four distinct
circumstances in which you're justified in using deadly force and
self defense or defensive a third person. And you want
to look all this up, it's all spelled out in
the statute. We have a self defense statute. It's Indiana
Code thirty five Dash forty one dash three dash two.

(16:13):
It has a bunch of subsections. It was all the
way through I want to say, sub section K, so
a whole bunch of subsections. It talks about different situations,
different scenarios. But in terms of when you're justified in
using deadly force, there are basically four times you can

(16:34):
do that. And again we're talking about Indiana law here,
since that's where our immediate audience primarily is although realizing
people listen to the podcast from all over and they're
a tremendous overlap. Certainly there are differences, but there's tremendous
overlap from state to state. In Indiana, you can use
deadly force first if you reasonably believe, and that reasonable

(16:58):
belief is so huge that that force, meaning deadly force,
is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to you or
a third person. To prevent serious bodily injury to you
or a third person, I believe that subsection C of

(17:19):
the statute. Don't have it in front of me, but
I've been teaching it and working with it for a
long time. So serious bodily injury you're preventing to you
or a third person. What also says right in that
same section is this says you're justified in using reasonable

(17:42):
excuse me, and using reasonable force, including deadly force, if
you reasonably believe that force is necessary to prevent the
commission of a forcible felony. What's a forcible felony, Well,
it's a felony committed through the use or threat of force.
So there are a lot of felonies that are that

(18:06):
are that are punishable as felony, and a felony is
simply defined as a crime punishable by over one year
in prison. That is, the maximum penalty is over one year.
But there are a lot of felonies that are not
forcible felonies. If there's a guy at the parking garage
here at WIBC right now, stealing my car, he's committing

(18:27):
a feloning, but it's not a forcible felon. A felonies
is a felony committed through the user threat of force.
He's not threatening anyone, he's not brandishing a weapon at
Indy one, He's just in my car trying to steal
my car. That's a felony, but it's not a forcible felon.
What if I'm in my car and a guy walks
up next to the window of my car and waves

(18:48):
a knife in my face and says, get out of
the car. I'm taking your car. Well, now that's carjacking.
Is carjacking a forcible felony? Yes, it's a felony committed
through the user threat of force. It's okay, now we're
at two. We've got you reasonably believe that force, including
deadly force, is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to

(19:09):
you or a third person. Can you defend a third
person the same way you defend yourself? Yes, Eli Dickon,
who I represented, who stopped the Greenwood Park Mall mass shooting.
The shooter didn't even know Eli was there. The shooter
was was shooting other innocent people all the way across
the food court at the Greenwood Park Mall right here

(19:30):
south of Indy. He like drew his gun, shot the
bad guy into the threat. He was protecting others from
serious bodily injury. Justified, You bet one hundred percent. So
I can prevent serious bodily injury to myself or others.
I can prevent the commission of a forcible felony. Not
any felony has to be a forcible felon. Armed robbery

(19:51):
is that a forcible felon? Yes, he's rape. Forcible felming.
Of course, the most vile of forcible felonies. Now goes on.
From there, then we have what we call our castle doctrine.
What's the castle doctrine? Well, I means youing to defend
your home. The Indiana castle doctrine is broader than just
your home. It says you can use reasonable force, including

(20:13):
deadly force, to prevent or terminate very important words, prevent
or terminate an unlawful entry into or attack upon your dwelling.
What's you're dwelling, Well, that's where you're living at the time.
Can be permanent or temporary, movable or fixed, meaning could

(20:34):
be my hotel room, but that's where I'm living at
the time. Certainly my home, my house, my apartment, it's
where I'm living at the time. Now, Indiana's castle doctrine
goes beyond that, talks about kurdledge, which, as I've mentioned
her own the show before, is a bit of an

(20:54):
unknown we'll go into that right now. It also includes
your you're occupied motor vehicle. Indiana extends the castle doctrine
what you can defend with deadly force to your occupied
motor vehicle interesting not germane to the present discussion. And
then the last one, the force scenario is you can
use reasonable force, including deadly force to prevent the hijacking

(21:15):
of an airplane. By the way, that law has been
on the books long before nine to eleven. So in
Indiana we're talking about Indiana law right now. Those are
the four times you can use deadly force. But then
there are a whole bunch of I started to say
peripheral issues, and they're not peripheral, they're central. They're in

(21:35):
critical issues, including if you're cut up in a scenario
where you've used force, including deadly force. And listen, if
you shoot someone, it's that deadly forced? Yes, yes, one
hundred percent of the time. Well what if they don't die,
it doesn't matter. Deadly force in Indiana is defined as
forced to create a substantial risk of serious bodily injury,

(21:58):
and serious bodily injuries defined very broadly to include force
that simply includes extreme pain or unconsciousness or impairing a
bodily member or organ quote unquote goes on from there.
It's very broad. You're shooting someone, I don't care where
are you shoot? Shootman a foot, shoot them in a leg?
Is that deadly forced? Yes? So again we're talking about

(22:21):
to be justified. There are specific scenarios, and who has
to prove that in a court case. You get caught up,
you shoot someone, you defend your home, you defend your life,
you defend yourself from a drunk outside of bar, which
is going to be Germane to mister Barry Todd's discussion,
we're kind of having join us here in just a bit. Well,

(22:43):
first of all, who has to prove that? Do you
do you have to prove as the person who's potentially
accused of a crime, do you have to prove you
acted in self defense? Or does a prosecution the state
have to prove you didn't. That varies by state to
state to state to state. I can say that, and
it's critically important. Burden what's the burden of proof? Goes
on from there. These are things that self defense attorneys

(23:05):
deal with all the time. Certainly I do as part
of my practice. It all becomes a bit of a
quackmire and certainly fascinating to discuss and can determine exactly
what we talked about earlier, which is whether you're charged
with a crime at all. If you are charged with
a crime, whether you win or you lose, whether you
go to trial, whether you can have the case dismissed
before trial, whether you're disputing probable cause or otherwise having

(23:28):
evidence suppressed, or whether you win in front of the jury.
That's how the progression goes. But knowing the rules of
the game and certainly how they can be used against
you many times unjustly. It's so critical to discussion. That's
why I'm excited about having Barry Todd on the show.
We're going to take a break here. At the bottom
of the hour we come back. We'll have mister Barry Todd,

(23:49):
author of Stand Your Ground, One Man's Self Defense Nightmare.
I read it. I just read it over the last
couple of days. Fascinating, fascinating book, certainly to end anyone
interested in self defense, and me as a self defense attorney,
I found it absolutely fascinating and I'm excited to talk
to mister Todd. We'll be right back. This is Guy

(24:11):
Ralford on the Gun Guys Show on ninety three WYBC.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
The show about gun rights, gun safety, and responsible gun ownership.
With This is the Gun Guy with Guy Ralford on WYPC.

Speaker 3 (24:30):
And welcome back to the Gun Guy Show here on
ninety three WYBC. I thrilled you with us. Say well,
let's get right to the phone lines, and on our
VP hotline we have mister Barry Todd. And I've been
talking about mister Todd here for a while. But first
of all, welcome to the Gun Guy Show.

Speaker 4 (24:47):
Sir, oh, thank you for having me, guys, I appreciate
it absolutely.

Speaker 3 (24:51):
So I read your book and was completely fascinated by
your story, especially as someone who's trained in self defense
for a long time and someone it was an attorney
for forty plus years and defense self defense cases completely
fascinating to me. But I just want to start with
you're someone who certainly familiar with firearms. Firearms twenty plus

(25:13):
years in the military, including as an army ranger, reaching
the rank of captain. That certainly led you to be
extremely comfortable, certainly with your ability to handle a firearm.

Speaker 4 (25:28):
Yes, sir, those you know, when you're around firearms your
whole life, they become part of you. They're not They're
not something that you're afraid of.

Speaker 3 (25:40):
Yeah, exactly. So twenty fourteen, you're out to an evening
of entertainment, including singing a little karaoke And by the way,
I tried my Way by Sinatra one time, as you apparently,
and I dropped the ball pretty hard on that. I'm

(26:02):
hoping you did a better version of that than I did.

Speaker 4 (26:06):
But my wife said that's the only song I could
ever say.

Speaker 3 (26:11):
Well, I can't. I can't even sing that one. But
but just to describe what led to the encounter that
resulted in you feeling the need to involve a firearm.
What happened? Just what were the events that evening that
caused this whole scenario to unfold?

Speaker 4 (26:30):
Well, simply guy the uh for your listeners here, Uh,
my wife and I were out with four other retired
military couples for dinner, drinks, a little bit of dancing.
We usually linked up about once a month, we all
many of us serve together. And throughout the evening we

(26:50):
met this young this young man UH, and he became
very aggressive toward the ladies. He ended up threatening me
and my wife. Than I was viciously attacked not by
one man, but two twice, one of them wielding a knife.
And when the police showed up, literally they did zero investigation.

(27:13):
They totally skipped a new process and charged me with
attempted murder to count evaggravated assault within five or six hours.
And there were one hundred and sixty hours worth of
video camera videos from sixteen different cameras that they never
looked at before they charged me.

Speaker 3 (27:34):
And we're going to get more into this. And by
the way, I hope you have a little time to
spend with us because This is going to take certainly
more than one segment to kind of pull all the
layers off this onion. But you were in the bar,
things got a little tense with this guy, even threatening
inside the bar. He was making gestures, insinuations towards your wife.

(27:57):
At one point you left the bar. I believe, just
go get some chew, right, some Copenhagen or something like
out of your vehicle. Correct, you left the bar, I
sure did.

Speaker 4 (28:06):
He threatened me twice in the bar, and both times
I told him the same thing. I am too old
to get in a bar room fight. This is not happening.

Speaker 3 (28:14):
Yeah, I would walk away exactly. So you left to
go to your vehicle just to get some chew. But
on the way back, now, suddenly you're confronted by this guy.
And by the way, what in terms of physicality is
this guy bigger, younger, stronger? How's this guy compared to you?
What are you faced with? Because as I understand it,

(28:34):
he was actually preventing you from going back in the
bar as you try to re enter to go rejoin
your wife.

Speaker 4 (28:40):
Oh yeah, the pictures you saw in there. He towered
over me. He outweighed me by one hundred pounds. He
was about four or five inches taller than me, and
both both of the guys were so.

Speaker 3 (28:53):
He won't let you back in the bar, and he
at one point he said something I won't use his
language on the radio, but uh, signify find that he
fully planned to spend the rest of evening with your
wife and wasn't going to allow you even back in
the bar. Where did it go from there?

Speaker 4 (29:11):
At that point? That's and he had already assaulted me,
threw me headfirst into cinderblock wall and punched me. At
that point, when he threatened my wife, I said, be advised,
I'm armed.

Speaker 3 (29:24):
Now, when you said you're armed, were you carrying a
gun at that moment?

Speaker 4 (29:27):
No, in Arizona, you don't have to.

Speaker 3 (29:32):
I'm sorry, you don't have to what.

Speaker 4 (29:34):
You don't have to have the gun on you at
that time.

Speaker 3 (29:37):
I understood. So what happened then you said, be advised,
I am armed, even though you didn't actually have a
gun in your immediate possession. What happened?

Speaker 4 (29:44):
Correct? He said, go get your fing gun, and I
said okay, and I proceeded to walk the forty forty
five feet to my vehicle, secured my firearm just the
way the laws of Arizona teach you to do when
you go through their CCW training. I had it down
at my side when I went to re enter the establishment.

(30:07):
He was standing off to the right, right along the
edge of the door, and I stopped short because not
only would my CCW training, but more so of my
military training. You never crossed a danger area exposing your
back to somebody that's already attacked you or that is
threatening you. That's the worst thing in the world. You do.

Speaker 3 (30:28):
Exactly. So, you got your gun in your hand sort
of down or along your leg, correct, on my right leg, Okay,
And so what happened Then.

Speaker 4 (30:37):
I stopped short of him. I pointed at him, and
I said, I'm going in there getting my wife and
my belongings, and I'm leaving. Before I could even get
my arm down, he attacked me.

Speaker 3 (30:48):
So he essentially he said, damn the torpedoes to your gun, right,
didn't much care that you had a gun. I'm assuming
there were some alcohol involved at this point.

Speaker 4 (30:58):
Well, he says he couldn't remember any thing that he
blacked out. Oh so blackout dracts was the only statement
yet he was blackout drunk, he said the last thing
he remembers was playing darks. Well, if you watch all
the videos, he stopped playing darts about forty five minutes
before he attacked me. Wow.

Speaker 3 (31:17):
Wow, So he attacked you and he's got a buddy
there outside the bar with him apparently true too, right,
and it actually attacks you, including with a knife, correct,
So what happened?

Speaker 4 (31:29):
And he even admitted to the police that he had
a knife, but he was never charged. And that's because
the police never looked at the videos.

Speaker 3 (31:36):
So all you wanted to do was get back in
the bar, rejoin your wife. You're obviously concerned about your wife.
She's been threatened by this huge, drunk guy. You're now
in what a fight for your life outside the bar? Correct?

Speaker 4 (31:51):
Yes? At that point, yes, When he attacked me the
second time, he fell into the doorway and as I
came up off of him his buddy, I fell forward
on him my left and he was trying to grab
hold of my gun hand and finally he let go.

(32:13):
And then when I started to come up, thinking it
was over with his buddy with a knife attacked me
from behind and pulled me down, and then he jumped
me right back on top of me. So that now
they're trying to get the gun from me.

Speaker 3 (32:25):
Okay, so you're fighting for the gun. What then happens?

Speaker 4 (32:30):
Well, he wasn't very smart. I mean, the guy was
really dumb. He had my forearm and he was squeezing
it with all his strength. He actually broke my arm.
He squosed it. He squeezed it so hard a caused
a what do they call that a hairline fracture? He

(32:51):
actually broke the bones in my right forearm. And I
just finally looked at him, because at that point I
knew I wasn't gonna let him. Let them have gun.
This guy's got a knife. I'm like, I just looked
at him, dead in his eyes. I said this is
going to suck for both.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
Of us, and literally said that out loud.

Speaker 4 (33:11):
Yes, his nose was literally two inches from mine when
I said that to him.

Speaker 3 (33:18):
And then what happened?

Speaker 4 (33:19):
And then he when he took the three fifty seven
round and his stomach came out of his shoulder. He stood up,
and then he staggered away and fell down in the
middle of a parking lot.

Speaker 3 (33:29):
Well, I'll tell you what, Barry. Let's if you don't mind,
and I hope you have more time because we are
not grazing the surface on this. I need to take
a break. We're going to come back for a short segment.
I really would like to keep you for a while
because one, I want to get into the details of
your book and where people can find this entire story,

(33:49):
but also I want to talk about the entire legal battle.
I really hope you have some more time to stick
with us here this evening.

Speaker 4 (33:56):
I do I can give you, how's about thirty or
forty up to thirty or forty five minutes.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
I'll tell you what. It's going to be the best
thirty or forty five minutes we've had here on The
Gun Guy Show for a long damn time. So I'll
tell you what. Let's take a break right now. We'll
be right back with Barry Todd, author of standrew Ground,
one Man's Self Defense Nightmare, when we come back here
on The Gun Guy Show on ninety three WYBC.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
Your rights, your responsibilities, and your guns. This is the
Gun Guy with Guy Ralford, ninety three WYDC.

Speaker 3 (34:37):
That's Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy Show on ninety
three WIBC. So Guy here on a VIP hotline. We've
got Barry Todd who's involved in a self defense shooting
you Arizona twenty fourteen. So, Barry, you've just pulled the trigger.
The guy who'd been attacking you is now hurt. Stood up,

(34:58):
but then keels over. You're hurt. You've got a broken
forearm and various other last rations, contusions and injuries from
having struggled with this big, huge, drunk idiot. Well what
happens then?

Speaker 4 (35:13):
That's when my friends actually heard what was going on outside,
and they all rushed out, and uh the uh the
bouncer at that point was trying to take charge. He
wasn't really a bouncer, more of a I D. Car checker.
He tells him to take My wife tells me go
ahead and let go of the gun. I'm here, my

(35:35):
friends were there. We let the I let go of
the gun. The bouncer uh uh had somebody take it
over unloaded. Then the police. I stood up. She goes
what happened? I said, he wouldn't stop attacking.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
Me, and very and forgive me. We we've got to
go to break to the top of the I was
way late getting into this, but we're gonna we have
to take a break here the top of the hour
and get some advertising in. When you come back after
this break to the top of the hour, I want
to talk about when you first had any doubt that
you were completely legally justified and that there was even
a possibility you were actually going to be prosecuted for

(36:14):
having clearly defended yourself with your firearm. And thanks so
much for your patience for sticking around right now we
got to go into a break top of the hour.
Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy Show on ninety three WYBC.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of
a free state, the right of the people to keep
in their arms shall not be infringed. This is the
Second Amendment, and this is the Gun Guy.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
Boom boom boom boom bang bang bang bang boom boom boom,
boom bang.

Speaker 1 (36:54):
Bang bo Guy Ralford on ninety three WYBC, and welcome back.

Speaker 3 (36:59):
For hour number two of the Gun Guys showed here
on ninety three WYBC. I got to tell you that's
going to be the longest break at the top of
an hour that we've ever been through here in the
ten years I've been doing a Gun Guys show, because
we haven't even graised the surface of the story of
Barry Todd, author of standrew Ground One Man's self defense Nightmare.

(37:19):
And all I wanted to do is get it at
a substance. And like I said, we've just barely touched
on it. But Barry's on the line. And so, just
to recount for anybody just joining us, violent encounter. A huge, drunk,
aggressive person is trying to prevent Barry from just re
entering the restaurant where you've just been in the evening

(37:42):
with his family, his his wife and friends, threatens him,
attacks him. Burry at one point gets his gun from
the vehicle, comes back. There's a struggle over the gun,
and the shot has discharged Barry's attacker. And by the way,
another guy joined the like with a knife, also attacking Barry,

(38:03):
broke Barry's arm, caused various other injuries. Now the bad
guy is down and Barry. I hope I that's a
brief summary, But I hope I did that accurately. What
happens next? When's the first indication that you thought you
might actually have an illegal jeopardy arising from out of this?

Speaker 4 (38:25):
Well? I knew the law well enough that I knew
I was going to have to go down and be questioned,
so I didn't really think anything of it. They did
handcuff me immediately. They put me in the back of
a patrol car. Then they took me down and put
me in an interview room. Everybody was very pleasant and
it wasn't no big deal. But then when I started

(38:46):
realizing there was going to be trouble was after the
second interview. At first, I wasn't going to say anything
because that's what everybody says to do. But whenever I
had talked to the police before, you know, if you
knew you were in the right, you know they usually
reasonable people.

Speaker 3 (39:02):
Well, let's talk about that, because reading your book, at
one point you very specifically said, listen, I'm not saying anything.
This is to the police without my attorney president And
they said, okay, interview's over. You thought about that for
a while, and then you said, now tell you what.
I've got a clear story to tell and then decided
to make a statement without an attorney present. Is that

(39:23):
the way that went?

Speaker 4 (39:25):
Yeah, because I knew the self defense laws. I've been
trained in Arizona. I've been with my wife and I
during that time period. We practice all the time, and
we'd go to other take additional training, and I knew
the laws. And now, unfortunately, what we didn't find out
till much later was the police and the prosecutors didn't

(39:49):
know the newer Arizona laws that have been passed in
the past over the past decade prior to my shooting.

Speaker 3 (39:57):
Which you actually know more about than they did because
of your CCW class.

Speaker 4 (40:01):
Correct. Correct. As a matter of fact, I even knew
more than my attorney did.

Speaker 3 (40:05):
Yeah, well, I want to talk about that too, because
that hit me like a ton of bricks when I
read that in your book. But I want to talk
about I want to focus on that because I teach
a class on the legal issues around the use of
force and self defense. I've been teaching it for a
long long time, and I actually have a slide that
I put up and it says aftermath, and then the
slide after that says, I'd be willing to cooperate fully

(40:28):
and give you a complete statement after my attorney is
present and I've had a chance to calm down, and
people will challenge me on that and say, hold on,
if I didn't do anything wrong, why should I be
concerned about telling the police what happened? Because I know
I'm in the right. I know what I did was legal.
Looking back, where you first said nope, I'm not going
to say anything without my attorney president, then you made

(40:50):
a decision to make a statement. Is there anything about
that you do differently today?

Speaker 4 (40:56):
I probably wouldn't have made a statement, but I don't
think it would have mattered anyway.

Speaker 3 (40:59):
Okay, but you think because the prosecutors were going to
end up charging you anyway.

Speaker 4 (41:04):
Well, the police made the decision that night. And as
you read and when you read the book from the
preliminary hearing, the police officer, the lead detective, finally admitted
to it. After months, actually two years of saying no,
he did not have any predetermined notion. My attorney, being
a brilliant man he was finally backed him into the

(41:26):
corner and got him to admit on the stand that
yes he did.

Speaker 3 (41:30):
Okay, so let's let's and I kind of jumped into
the one issue about making a statement or not just
because it's something that I teach. But so the police
made the decision to write this up essentially and to
initiate charges against you. And what happened from that point
going forward?

Speaker 4 (41:51):
Do you want to know about that night when they
charged me, yeah, or do you want me to go forward?

Speaker 3 (41:55):
What happened? So when did you realize you were actually
being charge with the crome?

Speaker 4 (42:00):
Well, so I went back into the interview and we
sat down. I told him everything that happened, and then
he walked out. They brought me a cup of coffee
and he walked out. He came back in probably ten
fifteen minutes later. He said, read this and sign it.
And I said, I shared with you earlier, Detective, I

(42:20):
don't have my glasses on me. What is it? He says,
it's a chart sheet and I said a chart sheet
for what? And that's when he said attempted murder to
count evaggerated assault, And I said, I told you of everything.
I told you it was strictly self defense. His exact
words to me were, we have the whole thing on video.

(42:41):
I said, great, have you looked at the video? And
his exact words back to me were not yet.

Speaker 3 (42:48):
And charges and they haven't even looked at the video yet?

Speaker 4 (42:53):
Yeah, exactly. And I looked at him, and my old
ranger instructor days from the nineteen eighties came out and
I proceeded to literally verbally abuse his lack of intelligence.

Speaker 3 (43:05):
Yeah, I imagine there were a couple of f bombs
in there somewhere.

Speaker 4 (43:10):
There were. Yeah. I started it out was, Oh, you're
a real intelligent life form. The oxygen is just flowing
to your brain and it just continued to flow from there.

Speaker 3 (43:21):
And listen and we can chuckle about that. But this
is the beginning of what a two year nightmare.

Speaker 4 (43:27):
Yeah, twenty six months and seventeen days. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:31):
And so just on the criminal side, yeah, well exactly,
and we'll talk more about that too. So you're charged
with a crime, and as you found out later, the
whole matter was actually submitted to a grand jury there
in Arizona.

Speaker 4 (43:45):
Correct, Yeah, sure was six days after the incident. It
was submitted to a grand jury. And again they never
showed the video. They at that point, they hadn't even
reviewed the video.

Speaker 3 (43:56):
And people need to understand, And I explained this to
people all the time, and I've had many cases over
the four decades i've been an attorney where the grand
jury is involved. People don't understand that the grand jury
only hears one side of the story. Now, the prosecutors,
under some ethical responsibilities, are supposed to present both evidence

(44:17):
of guilt as well as evidence suggesting innocence. But prosecutors
don't generally do that in my experience. They tend to
present a completely one sided story, and the grand jury
then they don't decide guilt or innocence, but they decide
whether there was probable cause to pursue criminal charges against you.
And that became a real focus of your case, didn't it.

Speaker 4 (44:39):
Oh? It did. It became the total focus of it.
It was unbelievable, and you hit the nail on the
head guy. The people don't realize that a prosecutor, when
he first takes up a case, before he takes it
to a grand jury. Technically the legal term for it
of his title is called minister of justice. All right,

(45:02):
that's supposed to be his title. He's supposed to be
wearing an entirely different hat than the prosecutor hat. He's
supposed to look at all the evidence, present all the
evidence to the grand jury fully whether it whether it
exonerates the potential person to be charged, or whether or
not done. And he's supposed to present everything and then

(45:23):
let the chips fall where they may. What we and
that's why my attorney, the brilliant man, he was he
passed away in at the end of twenty twenty three,
but he was the number two chair on the Miranda
rights case that went through the Supreme Court. Brilliant man,

(45:43):
Michael Kimmer. And he goes, well, Berry, our goal is
to not Ford to go to trial. So they didn't
we know they had the videos, they didn't show it.
So the first thing we're going to do is say
send it back to the grand jury. And so he
did that and it worked, and so the prosecution because

(46:03):
he didn't even show he didn't even present all any
He presents the basic affirmative defense self defense law. And
I don't know if your listeners know the difference. I
heard you talking earlier, the difference between affirmative defense and
justification defense.

Speaker 3 (46:23):
Yeah, I was saying. One of the preliminary issues in
self defense, always depending on jurisdiction you're in, is who
has the burden of proof? In other words, is it
an affirmative defense where the defendant has to a person
being investigated has to prove they did act in self defense,
or is it a matter of what we call the
state's prima fagere case, meaning they have to prove you

(46:46):
didn't act in self defense. And that's fundamentally important. And
you actually on that point, because you've been through your
CCW class, actually had to educate your own attorney on that.

Speaker 4 (46:57):
Oh exactly, I did because the law that changed ten
years earlier before my case happened, the actual in Arizona.
For your listeners, this is now a justification defense state.
The moment anybody who had to use a weapon in
any type of incident, if the moment they say it

(47:21):
was self defense by Arizona law, they're not supposed to
charge you. They are supposed to prove that. They're not
supposed to charge you until the prosecution proves that it
wasn't self defense.

Speaker 3 (47:36):
In terms of the grand jury in this case making
that determination correct.

Speaker 4 (47:41):
Yes, they're not exactly they're not even supposed to charge you.
Because what you're saying when you call it, when you
do that for your listeners, you're saying, yes, I did
shoot him. You're not denying that you didn't shoot the person.
What you're doing, though, is saying I was justified in
accordance with the laws of the state of Arizona in

(48:04):
my case.

Speaker 3 (48:05):
Yeah, and listen, Barry, we have to take one more break.
Can you can you come back with for one more segment,
because there's so much more I want to talk to
you about I so much. I appreciate you indulging us
with your time, and.

Speaker 4 (48:16):
I want to plug my book real quick before you
let me go and groundbook dot com. You can get
it on Amazon, Barnes and Noble or Durrance Publishing.

Speaker 3 (48:25):
Absolutely, but I want you to come back for one
more segment if you have the time, because I really
had more to talk to you about. All right, and
we'll talk again about where people can find your book.
Right now, we're taking a quick break, and says Guy
Ralford on The Gun Guy Show on ninety three WIBC.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
Now you've got a gun guy Guy Reldrick WYPC.

Speaker 3 (48:55):
And welcome back. We're back with Barry Todd, author of
Stan Ground one Man's Self Defense Nightmare. So Barry, okay,
So the prosecutor submits a completely one sided version of
the case to the grand jury and doesn't even show that.

(49:16):
This is mind boggling to me as a defense attorney,
that they would submit grand jury evidence and not even
give them the video of the shooting. Oh yeah, it
just blew our minds much much less the video of
everything going on in the bar, including this guy confronting you,
threatening you verbally and physically assaulting you, all before the

(49:37):
actual events that led to him getting shot. How's the
grand jury supposed to make a decision on probable cause
without seeing both sides of the story?

Speaker 4 (49:46):
Correct? That's exactly right, and that's why the first time
he agreed to it. And we even took the videos
that we received from the police and turned them over
to one of the FBI's tops video forensics experts, Brian Newmeister.
He took all the cameras that referenced of the sixteen,

(50:06):
there were four of them that picked up the entire
incident inside and outside the establishment, and he went ahead
and ran them and spliced them together like a movie.
It's unbelievable. And we gave that to him before the
second grand jury, the prosecutor. Yeah, we gave it to

(50:27):
the prosecutor before the second grand jury, and he still
didn't show at all.

Speaker 3 (50:34):
And at this point you have to wonder, I mean, yeah,
this guy's role in the grand jury proceeding is supposed
to be the Minister of Justice, right, yep. Obviously he
was acting as anything, But what do you think what
do you think the agenda was here? Do you think
this guy just has political ambitions and he thought it
would help him to try to put you in jail,
or what do you think the motivation was.

Speaker 4 (50:57):
Well, whenever you take somebody and you you before where
you've looked at the most important evidence, and you plaster
them all over the Southwestern United States newspapers and everything else,
some crazy retired ranger comes into a bar and shoots
a guy in the head. I mean, it was it
was horrible. I mean they don't want to let it

(51:18):
go because they didn't have egg on their face, but
that's exactly what happened.

Speaker 3 (51:26):
And you know the role of a prosecutor, and I've
heard many many prosecutors over a lot of years say
this in open court that listen, my job is just
not to prove guilt. My job is resent truth and
throughout the whole judicial proceeding. And that's supposed to give
them an air of credibility. But that's only if it's true,
and that's only if they act this way. And the

(51:48):
thing that struck me that the two things that just
leapt out of me as someone who's done this for
a long time, is when when a you, because you'd
learned Arizona law through your your concealed carry class, had
to update your lawyer on who actually had the burden
of proof of proving or disproving self defense. But the
second one was, and this just screamed at me, when

(52:10):
when you your lawyer and the prosecutor are arguing over
what should or shouldn't have been presented to the grand jury,
and the prosecutor actually said it came out of his
mouth over his lips. He said, I don't care what
the law says.

Speaker 4 (52:23):
That's correct. And we got that on We got that
on an actual recording.

Speaker 3 (52:29):
How you're supposed to be the minister of truth, minister
of justice if you don't actually care what the controlling
law of the jurisdiction says. That That hit me like
a ton of bricks.

Speaker 4 (52:39):
Oh yeah, and that's what one of the people that
was in the room even wrote an Affidavid saying that's
what he heard. Even then we had it on the recording.
It's unbelievable. It is. He told my attorney, I don't
care if he was following the law, he could have
come back with a gun up is but yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:58):
Yeah, right, no, I remember that so how much, and listen,
it always breaks my heart. And I'll be talking to
my own clients and I'll say, listen, this is such
an incredibly unfair process because the rest of us, the
whole criminal justice system, prosecutors, grandeurors, maybe a criminal jury
at some point if it goes to trial, your defense team,

(53:21):
your investigators, everybody else has weeks, months, years to dissect
everything that happened in the matter of a few minutes.
And you had to make instantaneous decisions, sometimes in a millisecond,
including whether to pull a trigger or not. And it's
so unfair because everyone, everybody else gets to analyze this

(53:43):
in retrospect with the benefit of hindsight. You had to
make the decision in an instant and realizing that of course,
looking back on it, for instance, how big of a
deal was it. How big of a deal did the
prosecutor make it that when you you left the bar
the first time, you didn't have your gun in your
immediate possession, then having a confrontation with this drunken, huge

(54:08):
idiot at the entrance to the bar where you just
tried to go in and rejoin your wife, that you
actually then went to your vehicle and retrieved your gun
and came back. Did the prosecutor make them off? Did
he make a big deal out of that?

Speaker 4 (54:20):
Oh yeah, he sure did. He hated that he could
have he could have walked down the road. Well, that
walk would have been a quarter to a half a
mile on a dirt road or or a two lane
road with no sidewalks, forty five miles an hour, no
street lights, to a gas station way down there to
call my wife because my cell phone and everything was

(54:40):
inside my wallet. And also my wife was a dd
that night. She wasn't drinking right, And that's that's how
we operate a lot of times. So that was it
was just it's abhorred. How you the whole system has

(55:02):
been turned upside down, And to be honest with the guy,
I think it's happened over the past forty fifty years.
I'll tell you a story. In nineteen sixty six, my
brother was eight years old. His dad woke him up
at two o'clock in the morning outside Fort Bragg, North Carolina,
said come out here on the porch, and there it
was a dead guy on the porch there, and I

(55:23):
had a big bullet hole in his chest and he said,
grab that hose over there and wash the blood off
the porch. Griff comes up the driveway, walks up on
the porch and goes, what do we have here? And
Ralph's dad said to him, goes, hey, ask him and
pointed to the dead band. He goes, I can't, he's dead.
He goes, exactly. So everything I want to tell you
that's happened is what happened. Don't try to add anything

(55:47):
to it or create a crime that doesn't exist. That
man was breaking into my house. I have my seven
children and my wife in here, and I put two
holes in his chest. Any questions and that was the
end of that. That was the end of it. But
you do that nowadays, and all of a sudden they
have all this stuff, and then they put you through
this ringer called pre trial services. You love this one guy,

(56:13):
pre trial services for your listeners out there. That's probation. Okay.
They took away my guns, they took away my alcohol.

Speaker 3 (56:20):
Being convicted of anything, this is all pending with your
case pending.

Speaker 4 (56:25):
Never been convicted of anything in my life in a
criminal trial, and no felony is nothing. And outside of
some traffic tickets, they turn around and I have to
get permission to travel. I'm the CEO of a national company.
My wife owned a real estate business, and so I

(56:48):
couldn't do anything. I had to ask permission to go
to my father's eightieth birthday, unbelievable. And I had to
ask permission to go to my own daughter's wedding. So
and then they turn around and they put you on
a every thirty days, they want to check out, give

(57:09):
you an unannounced your analysis and blood test. What. I'm
not a druggie. I've never had these issues. And then
the biggest thing is you got to go in every
two weeks and have sit in front of some new
probation officer to the probation office and they give you
the newest guy and he tries to cycle analyze you.

(57:30):
I'm a decorated disabled veteran, I own a national company,
all right, I've seen things that could make a billy
goat fuke, And You're going to come in here and
try to cycle analyze me to see how I'm doing.
It's absurd.

Speaker 3 (57:44):
And I want to reemphasize this is while your case
is spending, you haven't been convicted of anything. They're treating
you like you're on probation after conviction for a serious crime.
Well listen, lets so you had, even though you had
to do some education or early on, you had obviously
a very very good attorney. And he ends up actually

(58:04):
being able to challenge the grand jury's determination of probable
cause and what's called a preliminary hearing, and that it's
a little different procedure than we have here in Indiana,
but out there in Arizona, and it was able to
get the judge to make an independent determination of probable cause.
That it's huge because that would if you win on

(58:25):
this would result the dismissal of the charges and you
don't have to actually go to trial where you're the
remainder of your life is in the hands of six
or twelve people who are going to determine guild or innocence,
and the judge, by the grace of God and through
good lawyering, and because it was true and substantiated by
video and all the other evidence, judge determines there never

(58:46):
should have been a determination of probable cause and dismisses
the case against you. So that's the happy part, correct, Yeah,
it is.

Speaker 4 (58:55):
But going back to that, the whole point of the
matter is that the judge literally after the third grand jury,
he got so frustrated with the prosecutor not showing the
videos to the grand juries, he actually went and looked
at the video and made a finding of fact in

(59:16):
a case before it ever went to trial. Wow. And
my attorney, who was, as I shared earlier, Michael Kimer
at that point, had fifty years of a criminal defense experience.
He said to me, Barry, he goes, in my fifty
years are practicing law, I've never seen a judge do that.
He goes. That was unbelievable. And let me ask you,

(59:37):
have you ever seen a judge make a finding a
fact before the case goes to trial.

Speaker 3 (59:42):
No, no, not less as a proceeding that specifically allows
him to do so, which that didn't do. So no,
I agree with that completely. Well, listen, and I don't
want to ask any too personal information here, but you won.
That's the great news. And you made some allusions to
this in your book. I mean, just the retainer for
your attorney was one hundred thousand dollars. You had to

(01:00:04):
spend ten thousand dollars on a retainer for your investigator
that you had in this case, which yielded great benefits.
But if you're comfortable answering this question, you were innocent,
Jessea Truman. You should have never even been charged because
there was no probable cost because the prosecution couldn't rebut
your claim of self defense with any competent evidence. But

(01:00:25):
you still spent what a couple hundred thousand.

Speaker 4 (01:00:27):
Dollars closer to four hundred thousand on the personal side,
and then through my business. It took me another quarter
from Meion to clear my name because see, folks, let
me your listeners out there, you are guilty until proven innocent.
I'm own a national financial advisory firm that the moment
I was arrested, it went on every single disclosure for

(01:00:50):
every business associate, for every client or everything. It didn't
have anything to do with my with my business, but
it had to go on there. And even after I
was and it never went to trial, the case was dismissed,
I had to keep it on there just the fact
that I was charged. It took me another five years
to get the record sealed, get it off the FBI

(01:01:11):
databases and all the other police databases throughout the country,
because you have to do those individually. That's just not
a one happenstats and that takes time, and you have
to get a judge to order it, to seal the record,
and then to get it off of all those disclosures.
It was an absolute nightmare, especially when you have people

(01:01:35):
like the State of Florida. State of Florida, because we
were licensed in Florida, says, yeah, we want you to
go down to the court and get us a copy
of every single court document in your case certified. All right,
let me tell you something. It costs like four dollars
per page of certification and we had over twenty five

(01:01:56):
hundred gigabytes. Really, the amount of dollars that we spent
on this is astronomical. And the lessons I learned. Number One,
know the laws in the state where you're carrying, and
my wife and I were licensed in about forty one states,
and as soon as you cross there, get an app

(01:02:17):
on your phone so you know it. Number two, carry
the insurance, carry good self defense insurance. Number three, don't
talk to the police. Don't give it to them. I
don't think it really hurt me. But then again, just
follow what the lawyers tell you. You don't say nothing

(01:02:37):
without your lawyer. There and then number four, and this
is the most important. Remember the attorneys, the private eyes,
the expert witnesses, they work for you, all right. You're
the one right in the check no matter you know,
they're going to give you their opinion that you do

(01:02:59):
not always have to take it, and you have to
check their work and hold them accountable. And if they
have a problem with that, then you probably need to
fire them in the first place.

Speaker 3 (01:03:09):
I love that as somebody who could be fired if
somebody follows that advice. I still love that advice because
I'm one to stand behind my representation of any client,
and any competent lawyer is going to feel the same way.
So I love that, absolutely, absolutely love that advice. I'll
tell you what, Barry, We've gone way past the bottom
of the hour. Where can people find your book? I
read it, I was fascinated by it, and I'm somebody

(01:03:30):
who does this for a living, both on the training
on self defense as well as as a criminal defense
attorney who handle self defense cases. It was fascinating to
me as a quick read. I loved every minute of
reading it. Where can people find it?

Speaker 4 (01:03:44):
All right? They can go to our website Stand Your
Groundbook Dot com and on there you can go to
you can order it on Amazon, Barnes and Noble or
Dorms Publishing and folks out there, this money's not going
back into my pocket. All the proceeds are going into
foundation that my wife and my legal team and some

(01:04:04):
other law enforcement experts have helped us establish so we
can help others who don't have the money. I was
blessed because my wife and I have been blessed by
our Lord Jesus with gifts and being financially successful. I
was blessed in that way. But how many people aren't
out there? Are not? I know tons of people across

(01:04:26):
the country that aren't, and nobody wants to come in
and help them with those resources to be able to
have them. Yeah, they want to all help them afterwards
after they found the evidence, so that way they consume
and get a lot of money, but not a lot
of them want to just come in and say, Okay,
we're going to give money to your defense team.

Speaker 3 (01:04:45):
Quick question before we let you go. Were there any
repercussions to this prosecutor? Was this the pross we're ever
disciplined in any way? No, and obviously that should have
happened Lastly, I lied one more question. We have a
concerned about this person who was shot after attacking you,
and you justifiably shot him. Any worries about him suing

(01:05:06):
you for civil damages? For the interest?

Speaker 4 (01:05:09):
So he did?

Speaker 3 (01:05:10):
Oh he did?

Speaker 4 (01:05:11):
Oh he did five weeks after he was in the hospital.
I didn't get into that in the book because I
wanted to focus on the criminal. I think he did.
Oh he dropped the lawsuit. But that's why you carry
your homeowner's insurance, an auto insurance, or carry insurance. Yeah,
you remember, folks out there. I own a national financial
advisory firm. Your home covers you anywhere in the world

(01:05:36):
for anything that you do except operating a vehicle. And
that's when your auto insurance comes in. And if you
want additional liability coverage like I had, I had an
umbrella that takes the liability for my owners of my
homeowners of my auto and takes it above that I
got you.

Speaker 3 (01:05:54):
Listen, we need to leave it there, sir. I took
way more of your time than I said I would,
but this is a fascinating story. I absolutely commend your
book to people. It's called Standred Ground. One Man Self
Defense Nightmare author Barry Todd findal on Amazon, finding it
at standred Ground, the website that Barry mentioned. Right now,
I gotta let you go. Thank you, sir so much

(01:06:15):
for sharing your story with us here on The Gun
Guy Show.

Speaker 4 (01:06:18):
God bless you and have a great weekend you too, sir.

Speaker 3 (01:06:22):
Right now we're taking a break. Guy Ralford on The
Gun Guy Show on ninety three WYBC.

Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
He's a Second Amendment Attorney, he's an NRA A certified
Firearms instructor.

Speaker 4 (01:06:43):
He's the Gun Guy.

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
Guy Ralford on ninety three WYPC.

Speaker 3 (01:06:49):
And welcome look back. Thanks so much to Barry Todd,
a retired Army ranger and author of the book standrew Ground,
One Man's Self Defense Nightmare. We mentioned this during our segments,
but where you can find that go to Stand your
groundbook dot com. Just Stand your Ground book dot com.
I've read it and the interview we did, and we

(01:07:14):
went longer than I necessarily planned, and we still barely
scratch the surface of what a nightmare this was for
this gentleman. And it's near and dear to my heart
because of how long I've been involved in self defense
and training self defense but also defending people. This was
a travesty, but not. I can't say it's rare. I

(01:07:34):
can't say that it's anything. Well, I can't say it's rare.
Let me praise it that way. I mean, I see
miscarriages all the time. There are prosecutors out there who
don't understand the law. There are prosecutors who, apparently, as
his felt, don't care. Literally said where there were witnesses,

(01:07:56):
I heard him say it. A prosecutor said I don't
care what the law says and wanted to put the
gentleman in prison even though the law of the State
of Arizona said he was not guilty. I'll tell you
what we need to go ahead and get right back
into a break. It says, of how long I went
on that segment again, it's stand your ground book dot com.

(01:08:16):
Check that out. We'll come back. We'll wrap up this
edition of The Gun Guy Show. If you're on hold,
forgive me, please call back next week. We went so
long with mister Todd's interview that we're not going to
have time to go to the phone lines when we
come back. But I'll wrap up this segment with some
additional thoughts on the lessons learned from Barry Todd's experience.

(01:08:37):
Right now, we're taking a break. Guy Ralford on The
Gun Guy Show on ninety three WYBC.

Speaker 1 (01:08:52):
He's a Second Amendment attorney, he's an NRA certified firearms instructor.
He's this gun guy, the guy l FORYPC and welcome back.

Speaker 3 (01:09:05):
I'll tell you thanks again to Barry Todd who joined us.
That's right in my wheelhouse here. That's it's right dead
center of what we find important, what we think it's
critical to communicate on here on The Gun Guy Show,
and his story is just so important. One word about insurance.
Mister Todd talked about having an umbrella policy through his

(01:09:28):
business to protect him, protected him against different layers of liability.
I will tell you that most homeowners insurance, which he mentioned,
does not cover you for any quote unquote intentional act.
And if you're accused of a crime, and it's actually
there are limitations and virtually every state prohibits insurance companies,

(01:09:48):
including homeowners insurance companies, from insuring against criminal acts. So
if you're accused of a crime, there are an awful
lot of homeowners and insurance policies out there. They will
either say, well, that was an intentional act, which is excluded,
or it was a criminal act, which is excluded, and
you don't have any coverage. Now it sounded like things

(01:10:08):
may have worked out a little better on that issue,
but insurance is a contract. Insurance covers what the contract
says it covers, and in my experience, if there's a
self defense scenario that unfolds on your property, then you
have an argument it's covered, but you'll get it a
what's called a reservation of rights letter that says, well,

(01:10:32):
if ultimately it is determined that what you did was
a intentional and be not justified, then you're not covered
for that in terms of your expenses, your attorney's fees,
expert witnesses, all that kinds of things. So that's one
of the reasons, for instance, that I have separate carry
insurance and mine is through USCCA. There are several other

(01:10:52):
programs out there that specifically designed to cover you, whether
you're accused of a crime or whether it's civil liability
that is a private suit. And you heard Barry Todd
say it was one of the last questions I asked him,
did this guy actually think about sooning you? He said, oh,
he did. You know, days are barely weeks after the incident,

(01:11:15):
this guy filed a civil lawsuits. So now you've got
to worry about going to prison. You also got to
get worried about losing millions of dollars in a civil lawsuit.
That's why I like insurance that covers both of those. Now,
I mean full disclosure. USCACA several years ago hired me
to teach their self defense seminars. They paid me a
little bit of money, not very much, and haven't done

(01:11:35):
so in gosh, probably three or four years now. But
I did have that financial relationship there at one point,
so I want to disclose that to you so he
can take that for what it's worth. But since then,
I just pay them money every month. It's not much,
It's like twenty five bucks a month. But I have
insurance that covers me if I use my gun or
otherwise defend myself or defend another person and to he

(01:11:58):
get either prosecuted or suit. So and again I'm not
necessarily pitching USCCA. You can decide for yourself. There are
many other programs. There are programs like US Law Shield
and Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network and First Call Defense.
There are several others, So make your own decision on that.

(01:12:19):
But it really did strike me as I read Barry
Todd's book that one of the primary lessons. You know,
I see people out there on the internet, on the
gun related forums, and everybody, everybody you know, wants to
be rambo. Everybody wants to be a tough guy or girl,

(01:12:39):
and and a lot of times people seem very cavalier,
even enthusiastic about using their gun or using force, or
defending themselves with deadly force. And let me tell you,
every person I've defended a lot over the years, many
many people, including many of I'm represented, several I'm representing
right now, and every one of them will tell you
it's something that they would avoid if they had it

(01:13:00):
to do over again, that they simply wouldn't have gone there. Now,
does that mean you shouldn't defend yourself if it's warranted.
Absolutely not. I carry a gun every day. Why do
I carry my gun because I think I might have
to use it if I have to save my own life,
save another innocent life, save one certainly my family. Oh
hell yeah, I'm going there, and I'll do it without reservation.
At the same time, if it's possible to avoid it, boy,

(01:13:23):
I'll tell you that's a lesson that comes out over
and over again in these stories. But right now we're
coming to the end of the show. Hope you enjoyed it,
Thanks again to Barry Todd. We'll be back next week.
And remember I always shoot straight and always be saving.
This is Guy Ralford on The Gun Guy Show on
ninety three to WYBC.